After three 5 speed rebuilds I finally bought a 6 speed with dccd and I can say that’s the best thing I have ever done to my Subaru. It’s literally a different car now - it’s quicker, much more easier to drive in traffic and now it also handles much better while doing some racing. The gearing just seems spot on.
I had the choice of doing a 5 speed build (broke 3rd gear trying to pass someone) or swapping a 6spd into my 04 Forester XT... after doing the 6spd swap + R180(from jdm forester sti), it feels slower (extra weight + gear ratio?) and i have to shift more. (non dccd 6spd)
@@q2subzero Yes because the 6 speed of a JDM Forester STI has a way longer gear ratio. If you are not running a 2.5 which has the extra torque then it's a really bad choice.
@@marvinvisser5039 The US version of the 2004 FXT has the 2.5 already in it from factory. I'm running a stage 2 IAG built 2.5 motor right now. I feel like more power would be beneficial with the extra long gears my JDM Forester STI 6spd has with it. Currently trying to look for best setup with 93 oct and decent hp to the wheels. (currently at 315hp and 350tq at the wheels on my current setup)
I have an important question to me right now that i hope you can answer very soon. So i have a 6spd from a VA WRX and i was wondering. Does the front diff have bushings or bearings where the CV axles go? I have deep gouges on the surface where the front driver side CV axle sits and this is resulting in major leaking and noticeable clunking everytime it goes into that gouge. If this means the front diff needs to be replaced would it be better for me to do an STi drivetrain swap or rebuild the OG 6spd? Last time i drained the transmission i found the fluid to be black and full of sparkles and not to mention the obvious clump of grey gloop on the drain plug, so its probably due for a rebuild. (This car just litterally ticked over 103k miles as of 02-12-24) Engine also ticks at 3k rpm🥲
Thanks for your question. There are bearings for the front differential. From what you are describing, it sounds like there is some movement in the front diff/ring and pinion that shouldn't be there. I'd recommend getting that diagnoses and corrected. Hopefully it is just bearings, but it could be something else. We broke the front diff support out of a case when our driver missed a shift a few years back. That caused both front axles to move freely. The whole trans was scrapped at that point. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
22b sti 5 speed is pretty fun to have for city driving. it takes a bit fuel but it picks speed good. Especially with a Ej255 running at 8:5:1 compression ratio and 14.5 pounds of boost pressure. with the dccd version the lock mode gives good acceleration. it's not heavy either. The 6 speed is quite heavy and affects drivability at city limits. But on the highway the 6th gear allows for more speed.
I blew up my 5 speed in my '12 WRX and got myself a JDM 5 speed transmission and diff off a '13 WRX. Are JDM 5 speeds any improvement compared to USDM 5 Speeds?
Thanks for your question. The STI cluster isn't needed to do the swap. And as mentioned here, if you want the lights to display the DCCD function, the MAP DCCD controller does that as well. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Hey guys thanks for answering my question! I’m the Joe you mention lol. I paid about $5000 for parts including the rebuild kit and labor by Andrewtech in 2015 so prices were slightly lower… I ordered the PPG torsen diff for about $1900 and I installed it myself. Other things that went into me considering this choices was axles and brakes because my setup is in a 2002 WRX wagon. At the time I didn’t know what to do about the longer axles from a sedan as well as the hub conversion to 5x114.3 which would require getting new wheels. (I have 18” Prodrive P1s which I love) It was just very convenient to remove and replace with the same trans. Also if you ever have to replace or repair Brembos it can be very expensive. Any other questions let me know! Love your videos and tech discussions!
Went from a 4.11 ratio 5 speed to 3.9 ratio 6 speed an never looked back. The 6 speed literally transformed how the whole car feels overall. No question, 6 speed or bust!
Man I have to say I had the opposite opinion. I broke 2/3 in my 02 wrx 5 speeed. Basic Cobb and a vf34 twin scroll. Maybe 330 ish hp. I did a full 07 sti 6 speed swap, had custom races made for the cvs to keep hubs and the r180. With the quick spooling vf34 the 6 speed final drive ratios ruined the car for me. I sold the car since I put so much into it. and upgraded majorly. 03 wrx 530hp gt4088 twin scroll with a built ppg 1-4 straight cut 5 speed. Stupid fast. But maybe with the bigger turbo now the 6 ratios would feel better.
They don't really fix the core problem with the 5-speeds, which is most likely why there has never been any concrete data about how much of a change they make to 5-speed durability. Dave from Rallispec had some interesting experience with them as well. You should go through that video if you have a chance. Lots of good information in there. th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I have them and the difference in feeling is amazing, have spoken back and fourth with a privateer rally guy that was nuking 5speeds until he started using them.
The theory is that 5 speed transmissions stretch/twist under high power applications. This allows gears to grenade themselves. So blast plates keep the transmission from flexing,keep the gears from grenading. My tuner autocrossed a wrx swapped outback making 500hp, and with blast plates, had no issues...
@@StarwindIV glad to hear this from someone else. i know of 2 people running them, 1 at strip has had many launches on semi's and its still together and the rally guy but he did brake with blast plates after 2 full seasons, were before plates was every couple races lol
@@proximitybeejay3673 I will say, I wouldn't recommend hard launches constantly with a stock 5 speed and blast plates, but, for hard driving, should be fine imo
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. We discuss them here: th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ISF-QyMULHe1vOqT The short answer is that they are not capable of correcting the fundamental design issues that make the 5-Speed transmission more prone to issues at higher power levels, and they can potentially cause issues of their own. I'd say it would be best to focus on something like a 6-speed swap if you need the additional strength. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Hello i have build transmission strong 5 speed Albins-Gear semi Helical, my car have 435 HP and 460 N/m torque, plate Exedy stage 2, oem flywheel, disk ACT stage 2, all bolt in transmission Steel 12.9 torque 50N/m, oem 35 N/m and don’t have any problem make 15000 km very strong.
I had this exact scenario recently and went with the 6-speed for all the reasons you mentioned. The video with Dave was a tremendous help and really pushed me over the edge. Now for me going from JDM 5-speed (STI type RA with DCCD) to a JDM 6-speed (with DCCD) the ratios are actually better. Basically the same ratios for 1-4 and a closer 5-6, making 5th a more usable gear. Thank you for all the great videos, keep them coming.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the question. The ratio of 5th gear in the 5 speed is the same as 6th gear in the 6 speed, so there is no difference in top speed. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I had a 5speed got a deal on full 6speed swap including breembo my little issue is am feeling the gears a bit stiff at times & sometimes reverse a bit hard to get any advice great video but never regret the swap as i don't daily the car
Great videos as always. Just wanted to put my 0.02 here…. Original owner of a 2011 WRX here that I’ve had for almost 12 years now. Been running my car on the 5spd the entire time with 410ft lbs of wheel torque through it with no problems to this day. I think what’s been the most important thing is respecting the transmission for what it is. Don’t dump clutches, hard shift, or roll on throttle in too tall of a gear. The transmission loves to be finessed into the right gear at the right engine speed,unlike other vehicles Respect it and it’ll last a long time.
I agree, but the older ones are the weaker ones, 02-07. That said, I had my 5 speed (bugeye) for 172k and it was still really smooth. Only reason I pulled it was for a full STi swap.
Nice! I have a stock location Comp TBB 56mm turbo on 91oct in a 2006 WRX Wagon w/5sp all stock internals and make around 400wtq. Over 50k miles on this setup and only issue Ive had in the driveline was due to rear end incident
Having had the 6 speed fail on the third session of the first track day I did with a 2018 Type-RA when I had it, I decided I would rather run a cheap car with cheap 5 speeds and just throw in used 5 speeds for cheap if they fail LOL
I love my 5 speed but we built a 400+ hp setup and I'm only on 10psi 😢 Its been my daily for about 3 years and no issues but in turning the power up finally and I know the trans isn't going to last.
Thanks for the question. Have you watched our video about putting a sequential in our Pikes Peak Car? th-cam.com/video/n-xTv0nmxig/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bNPcZ_4corbTCe10 Definitely take a look at that, and post any follow up questions on that video and we'll do our best to help. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
My main issue is 100Km/h cruising speed where either in a 5spd or 6spd the engine RPM is just shy of 3000 RPM and the 5spd ratios do the turbo justice. 1st gear is almost useless so taller ration diff's would be a good option for me. At the moment I'm running 225x55x17 tyres with speedo correction, this has dropped my 100Km/h RPM down to 2600 which provides much better economy and range per tank. I've driven 6spd subi's but I prefer my 5spd.
Watching this makes me feel so much better about the $ spent on my car that has a full 6 speed swap in it. I bought my RS for $15k with an EJ207 in it and a full 6spd swap, all done by Rallispec back in 2017-2018. It is running the EJ207 ECU and functional AVCS
The 5 speed isnt worth building imo. I had an RA gear 5 speed break on me on a vf34 e85 set up. I then went to a 6 speed with an auto driveshaft and re used my r160 diff. i spent about 3300 on the swap including the little things that were needed.
I ended up building 5 speed as couldn't justify cost of full changeover and wasn't brand new. 1st to 4th straight cuts dog box (PPG gear sets) and love it. Run 450whp and 830nm torque no issues. Can see the pros of the 6 speed for sure!
Next topic what is the max power and torque you can get out of a 5eat? I've heard around 400whp with an external transmission cooler i feel like no one ever talks about the autos I've been told there pretty good
Thanks for the question. I'll add it to the list, but I will say that we don't have any 5EAT cars that we work with currently. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
This is good information. It's been a couple of years now be we spoke about building my 04 Forester XT engine. The build has been finished now for a while and is super solid. I appreciate the knowledge you shared with me. It came off the dyno with 350 whp and 350 lbs-ft of torque. Needless to say, I drive pretty easy to keep the trans together. Though there are the occasional spirited drive moments. No launching just rolling into the power. I have been throwing the idea around for a bit now on swapping over the trans or building out the 5MT. Outside of throwing on some blast plates, It seems that the 07 STI 6MT is the way to go. Thanks again for the info. Look forward to the next video.
Very glad to hear that the Forester is working out well for you, and glad that we could help! If you need any help when you are ready to do the 6MT swap in the Forester, just let us know. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Off the line on the street I liked the 06 5 spd with 3.70 final, picked up speed fast in 1&2 gears. After 409,000km it blew 2nd & locked up. 2013 6 spd in now gives piece of mind for power levels
Great idea for a topic! Just swapped in a 6 speed myself after blowing a 5 speed at about 330 ft-lbs. (never launched, blew 2nd) and am really curious what you have to say (haven't watched yet).
@@FlatironsTuning Watched it and wasn't disappointed! Glad that I went with the six speed in hindsight and interesting observation about the lack of support in the main gearshaft. I had previous read about the issue of the gears pushing apart under heavy load as being the reason for failure, even in PPGs, but people had typically attributed that to case flex, rather than any lack of support in the gear shaft itself. I'm curious if you think that straight cut gears, if you can tolerate the whine, would hold up much better, since they should, in theory, push apart less under load, compared to helical. It also sounds like blast plates, which were once thought to reinforce the case against flex and mitigate the issue, would do nothing to solve this issue. Wonder if that matches people's experience with them...
@@Currancchs The issues with the 5MT transmissions really come down to the case, and the overall design. There just isn't a way to improve or overcome those issues without changing the design of the transmission itself.
For me its not worth the time & effort for the gains, & the ppg straight cut said $3499 & u said 3400 😑 total of 7k not $6900, 100 bucks is a 100 bucks, do what i did, i bought a crashed 3L liberty 6 speed for $1500 & swapped it & sold everything else, got a free 6 speed swap
--Does the 2022 WRX 6MT have the old WRX 6MT, or is it the STI 6MT? Or other? I mean, exactly what 6MT is in the 2022 WRX? --If it's the old WRX 5MT that was converted to a 6MT, is it worth it to buy an STI 6MT and put it in my 2022? Or, maybe buy a 5MT and build it?
Thanks for your question. The 2022 WRX has the same transmission as the 2015 - 2021 WRX. It is a split case transmission with 6 gears. It is not the STI 6-speed. The WRX has always had a split case transmission design, so there are a lot of similarities between the WRX 5-speed and WRX 6-speed. But they are not the same transmissions. You can install an STI 6-speed transmission into a 2015 - 2021 WRX and there are a lot of benefits to it. I do assume that it will be possible to do that same swap in the new WRX, but we just don't have much information about it yet. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
There are more version of 6mt gearing, while JDM is short and doesn't give you longer final gear, USDM/EDM hawkeye 6 speed has longer gears that are somewhere between WRX 5speed gearing and the 6th is longer than WRX 5th so it is beneficial as well. And for people outside the US and Japan, the STI had non-DCCD 6speed until 2005 which can be sourced cheaper and doesn't need any additional wiring.
is there a stronger Ring & Pinion option for the 5 speed? I want to use one in a FWD application. and with all the torque now going to the front diff, I have to worry.
Thanks for your question. I'm not aware of a stronger R&P for the 5MT front. I believe that Albins may have made an aftermarket R&P gear set at one time, but I'm not sure if that is still an option. Best of luck and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
i have a 2007 wrx and from what i can gather it is literally the worst candidate for a swap everything must be replaced the knuckles and suspension the brakes and rear diff would you still reccommend the swap on this vehicle my goal is 500 hp
Thanks for your question. If you want to make 500 whp, I think your only reliable option is a 6-speed swap. Lots of information on that here which is a collection of our other videos on the subject: www.flatironstuning.com/sti-6-speed-swaps-everything-you-need-to-know Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for the question. A PPG dogbox would be a lot more than a 6-speed, especially if you were going to do something with the differentials. And they have also not proven to be nearly as reliable for holding power, etc. Would it be faster? Only in some specific circumstances I'd say where you might be able to shift the dogbox less. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have a 2013 WRX with a 5spd and I was actually looking into building mine up as I love the gear ratio, and the weight differences, but I’m torn with having a 6spd just for the dccd though. I’m only daily driving mine though, haven’t the money to even begin to think about tracking it just yet. Great video all around and might just help me make up my mind, thanks guys! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Very informative video with a great answers 👍 I have my own questions overall I'm not a mechanic I'm just a SUbi enthusiast. I have a 2003 Subaru Baja non turbo 2.5L 4cylinder 165 hp with 250 thousand miles on it. I really love this car I really wanted finally bought 6 month ago the engine is weak started to consume a lot of oil and transmission doesn't shift as smooth as supposed to be with that all being said I want to do on engine upgrade with turbo and 6sp manual transmission I'm on a budget but not specting to be cheap. What recommendation would you suggest on this particular model in order to make the swap. By the way this car is not for a racing it will be for car show and daily driver. Hopefully you take the time to read my comment thank you very much
Thanks for your question. The short answer is that you don't want an STI 6-speed in an NA Subaru typically. All of the gearing is a good deal taller in the turbo cars because they have a lot more power. So if you put that in your NA car, you will not get nearly the same useable benefits that you would if you had an STI, etc. My best advice is that you just have the existing transmission rebuilt. Hope that helps and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
I could be wrong, But I think the price of the PPG gearset has actually gone down? I thought I remember the gear set alone being like $6-7000 like 6-7 years ago. Might have been for the full rebuild though.
Thanks for your question. That price sounds like the cost of a full build with those gears, but it is a little hard to say. Either way, they are an investment. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
My MY99/00 5 speed was re-built with custom shaft With Late model STI Gears 1-2-3 and Wider Late Model WRX gears 4-5. (there is a bit of a larger RPM Drop from 3rd to 4th than when it was stock, but i adjusted to it in couple days) - Does 55-60kph in 1st and 115-120kph in 2nd @ only 6500rpm. - Modified Syncros i can shift into 1st at about 40kph for downshifting. (tho i normally dont thrash the car as i want my 99 GF8 to last me another 15-20 years as its my last car)
After pricing on your site it looks like a full swap, with new parts, would come in alot closer to 15k without labor than the 6-7k mentioned. At this price I can build 2-3 5 speeds with gears. Admittedly the cases will still be weaker but a much more viable option for those of us with cars worth a fraction of the 6 speed swaps.
Hmmm. I'd need to see the options you selected. The number that we came to in the video is straight from our site, with the options selected. Though that is a minimal estimate, yours seems quite high. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning looked like the basic swap contains tranny, linkage, and mounts. But wouldn't a person need the rear diff, clutch and flywheel, axles, dccd controller, and possibly brakes to complete the project? For my particular 5x100 hub vehicle it would need to be a dedicated and sponsored track car to do the swap with new parts.
Nope, not at all. We just put this together on our site as a full resource with information on the swap. The minimal parts that we discuss in this video are all the parts that are absolutely required. Everything else is basically optional. I would recommend a DCCD controller though, that has a number of benefits too. www.flatironstuning.com/sti-6-speed-swaps-everything-you-need-to-know
I looked into this as well and maybe it depends a lot on which WRX you have. After watching the Flatirons video for doing the 6-speed swap into a GR it looks like I would need all those extra items.
Thanks for your question. Here is a link to a video where we take a look at some of the STI 5-speed gears actually: th-cam.com/video/aLpTeMGKDRk/w-d-xo.html The short answer is that there is no significant difference between your V6 STI gears and the Legacy GT gears/2008 - 2014 WRX gears. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Are you comparing a rebuilt 5-speed to a used 6-speed or a new or rebuilt one. I have also heard horror stories of not being able to find anyone that would rebuild a 6-speed. What would that cost?
Thanks for your question. The comparison is most everything new in the 5MT or a new 6MT. And yes, it is tricky to find a good shop to rebuild an STI 6-speed for sure. We would recommend Rallispec in New Jersey. That is who we are working with on all of our 6-Speed builds. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. The split-case 6-speed in the WRX since 2015 is roughly equivalent to the previous 5-speed WRX transmission. Because of the 4.11:1 final drive, it may be a bit more reliable, but it is still not the same as the STI 6-speed transmission. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. All of the 5-speed turbo cases are based on the same design. So they would all fall under the same conversation that we had here. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. Yes, there are 1-4 gear set options for the 6-speed transmissions. They are a different design from any of the 5-speed gear sets though because the parts are not interchangeable between the two. Thank you for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. I will actually direct you to the Podcast that we did with Dave from Rallispec. Here is that link: th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.html We discuss the blast plates there, and I'd say that would be your best source for information. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. We haven't done any testing with the blast plates, and we don't have any plans to. They were largely covered in our conversation about 5-speeds and 6-speeds with Dave from Rallispec here: th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Question for you guys. I had the chance to take my friends 6spd swapped WRX for a spin, the main thing I noticed was how much higher the clutch engagement was (pedal almost all the way released) compared to my easy to modulate 5speed with the engagement at the middle of the pedal stroke. Is that poor adjustment or how it’s supposed to be??
I bought the 08 LGT gear set years ago from you guys for my 5spd. I wanna say I spent around $3500 give or take to have it rebuilt back in like 2010 or so.
Hello.. just watched the video.. thank you for the great info and comparison.. I’ve done both 6speed swap and also a 5speed upgrade using a Moores Blast plate I would like to suggest that the moores plate has withheld up to 450whp/torque. Perhaps you guys can look into this and talk about it in your next podcast for the cheapest / reliable 5speed performance use. 😬
Thanks very much for the comment. We talk about the blast plates with Rallispec in the video linked for what it is worth. I'll add your question to the list. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
As someone who has yet to get their Subaru (but really wants to for time attack) the question I’ve been toiling with is just waiting longer and getting an sti or getting a WRX at a fraction the price and doing the swap. With a new 6 speed in a 04-05 it seems like it’ll basically be the same price as getting an sti. I could buy used and save like 3k on the same swap. The full scope of the dream is building out for GridLife street and then street mod classes in the next 5+ years. I feel like if I keep the whp below 600 I could stick with a mostly stock sti drive train reliably and save money in the long run. I want to try and plot this out as best I can so I don’t creep completely out of control but I’m lost on this initial decision.
Thanks for your question. Honestly, there are a number of reasons to start with an STI for motorsport applications over a WRX. The transmission is just a part of it. If you want to build the car up from a shell, then the shell is really the important part. But if you want to start with the car as it is, and build it up over time, the STI has a lot of advantages in terms of drivetrain, differentials, brakes, suspension, etc. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning the end goal is getting to around 550 whp with a solid power band. Would stock Sti trans, shafts and axles handle that reliably or would I end up replacing them anyway? From what I gathered the stock trans might, but idk about the rest of the drive train
@@IMR_Seb For the STI, I would be comfortable with the trans, axles, and R180 rear diff at that power level. Now you will most likely want a clutch type differential in the rear and possibly in the front as well. But the basic framework of the STI drivetrain has a lot of good options for that.
ill probably be doing the change to a sti 6 speed it looks like. i see your website offers everything to make this happen. not to insult the company, but do you guys carry a high amount of transmissions/ driveshafts/ etc new or used in order for people to make these builds possible? or do you source them after an order has been placed?
The two transmissions are completely different designs and parts will not transfer from one to the other. But there are gear options for the STI 6-speed transmissions. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
ive been wondering how strong the geared auto transmissions are? me coming from my 2010 outback 3.6 that has the 5eat and my 05 lgt 5eat i love the transmission. ive seen on fb groups of people pushing them over 400 but that's about it
if you have an 02-05 wrx the cheap way to do the sti 6 speed swap would just be getting the 6 speed and getting an auto driveshalf from an 02-07 inpreza and keep your rear end. i did the swap myself and it only ended up being around 3300 for me with the little things that were needed. I've had friends who did it cheaper than me. I guess it just the cost of the 6 speed that people are really willing to sell for.
Disclaimer: Just my findings; Love FT and buys parts from them; FT has been very helpful with my 2002 WRX; not advertising anyone else... just sharing knowledge from those who build 5 and 6spd MT for Subaru. Question: How is the car being used? What is the horsepower/torque? This should dictate everything. A 2.0L is a 2.0L, not a 6.0L LS. Subaru builds phenomenal power per liter. I wish Subaru had a 6.0L, I would make it fit. 🙂 That being said, it is my belief that 4 cylinder cars should be as light as possible in weight. As a penny saved is a penny earned, weight saved is power earned. 1) 5spd cases can only take about 350 FtLbs of torque due to the helical gears pushing the shafts out the end of the case. If you go with a straight cut gear, this problem is reduced significantly. The driving style will dictate what the 5spd will hold, as well. However, straight cut gears are noisy. 2) I have been informed by the builders there is about 100 lbs in spinning mass difference from the 5spd to the 6spd. If this is the case, this will definitely take away the responsiveness of the drivetrain. From this site (FT) and others, it has been stated up to 350HP/350FtLbs is the threshold of reliability for WRX/STI. Thus, one has to ask him/herself where will the power be maxed out at for the particular setup. 3) What I have been told: If you are going upwards of 500HP or more, you want the 6spd for reliability; simply put the 5spd will become a grenade at this power level. Stay with a 5spd setup as long as you can, especially if you don't exceed the 350HP/FtLbs mark. You will lose power to the ground due to the +100lbs spinning mass in the 6spd. 4) Many different types of gear ratios are available, and depending on the power level, you don't need bullet proof gears; you just need gears that have been proven to sustain the power and torque you are going to use. 5) Do not modify the gears after buying them such as smoothing them, or treating them. This will throw the tolerances way out, and cause the gears to not mesh as they were designed. To John's point, you will get less surface contact on the teeth because the tolerances are altered. So, a perfect set of gears for your application and power can be completely destroyed when "You" decide to add in your own internet engineering. Listen to the pros and accept what they have to say; they know what they are doing. 6) What I have been taught, and see: More shifts means more time. The last time I checked, drivers/racers want less time. Hmmmm? 🤔 7) YOU WANT FULL POSITRACTION!!! Believe me, this has made a huge difference for me on the street and taking corners and keeping traction. This is real AWD, not the open diff crap you get from the factory. This is especially helpful on non-asphalt services, or when there is gravel on the roads and in corners. FAIR WARING! You will have to change your driving style... You have to steer the car back straight when coming out of the corner. If you do not, the car will continue to turn that direction. 8) Choose a gear set that compliments the performance of your engine. DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE! Make sure you have done the math to ensure the gears you are using don't shift you out of your boost/power range. If the engine is not built yet, then pick the drivetrain you want, then build the engine to compliment that drivetrain. DO THE MATH FOR BOTH... Engine and drivetrain. 9) Keep Horsepower numbers out of your head... I have seen properly setup cars (engines and drivetrains matched in form and function) with less horsepower annihilate higher horsepower cars on the street. That is fact. My Setup for those who care... I have an 02 WRX Wagon (Grocery Getter). The stock 5spd MT would allow me to see speeds up to 135ish. However, shifting would cause the engine to fall out of boost. With much consideration and how I drive, I gave up one thing I wanted to keep... I went to 3.0 1st gear instead 3.4 1st. Thus, I have to work the clutch more, I can launch and stay in 1st longer, go to 2nd gear and stay in boost. This affords me 1-4 in boost. I also forfeited top 4th gear speed, but probably to save me from going to jail. Here is the setup for my grocery getter. Believe me, 0-107mph is very fast and aggressive, considering it is currently a 275HP USDM 2.0L with 194K miles. In the near future it will be max 350HP/FtLbs 2.0L JDM motor. 1) 5 spd MT custom built by ????? Design. Dual first and RA 2-4 gears; Dual carbon synchros 1st and 2nd and new synchros for the rest; stock 5th gear for highway speeds; Torsen LSD in the front. 2) R160 AP Racing posi rearend 3) Kept stock 3.9 gear ratio, with 1.1 reduction setup. (Side note: 1.1 reduction is a clever design by Subaru. I like the science behind it. It reduces the speed of the driveshaft to save power.) 4) Running a steel 1 piece driveshaft (5lbs savings from stock 2 piece) for durability and repair. Carbon too expensive for budget, and cannot be repaired easily or at all. Aluminum would require a hammer for clearance issues... not going to happen. 5) Using a Spec clutch kit, nothing fancy, with stock flywheel to keep the harmonics under control on the street for drivability and rush hour traffic. I would rather have the clutch slip in the future than allow the power of the new engine to break the trans. Clutch kits are less expensive. Pricing: Trans: $4600 includes some extras (bushings, etc) Diff: $900 Steel Driveshaft: $600 Clutch Kit: $350 TOTAL: $6450 not including speeding tickets 😋🤣😂
After three 5 speed rebuilds I finally bought a 6 speed with dccd and I can say that’s the best thing I have ever done to my Subaru. It’s literally a different car now - it’s quicker, much more easier to drive in traffic and now it also handles much better while doing some racing. The gearing just seems spot on.
Thats awesome to hear. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I had the choice of doing a 5 speed build (broke 3rd gear trying to pass someone) or swapping a 6spd into my 04 Forester XT... after doing the 6spd swap + R180(from jdm forester sti), it feels slower (extra weight + gear ratio?) and i have to shift more. (non dccd 6spd)
@@q2subzero Yes a few notice the weight, some say the ratios are terrible, but here in Australia 6 speed swap now is like GOLD prices
lol
@@q2subzero Yes because the 6 speed of a JDM Forester STI has a way longer gear ratio. If you are not running a 2.5 which has the extra torque then it's a really bad choice.
@@marvinvisser5039 The US version of the 2004 FXT has the 2.5 already in it from factory. I'm running a stage 2 IAG built 2.5 motor right now. I feel like more power would be beneficial with the extra long gears my JDM Forester STI 6spd has with it. Currently trying to look for best setup with 93 oct and decent hp to the wheels. (currently at 315hp and 350tq at the wheels on my current setup)
This is where I am stuck at right now. Pushing 480whp/450wtq right now, but i cant be very aggressive with it.
Thanks for the comment. That is definitely a power level where you would benefit from a 6-speed transmission.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I have a jdm wrx 4.44 05-07 5mt and it’s holding 400 hp and torque to the wheels right now. My car weights 2000lbs so wheel spin is the issue.
I have an important question to me right now that i hope you can answer very soon.
So i have a 6spd from a VA WRX and i was wondering. Does the front diff have bushings or bearings where the CV axles go? I have deep gouges on the surface where the front driver side CV axle sits and this is resulting in major leaking and noticeable clunking everytime it goes into that gouge. If this means the front diff needs to be replaced would it be better for me to do an STi drivetrain swap or rebuild the OG 6spd?
Last time i drained the transmission i found the fluid to be black and full of sparkles and not to mention the obvious clump of grey gloop on the drain plug, so its probably due for a rebuild.
(This car just litterally ticked over 103k miles as of 02-12-24)
Engine also ticks at 3k rpm🥲
Thanks for your question. There are bearings for the front differential. From what you are describing, it sounds like there is some movement in the front diff/ring and pinion that shouldn't be there. I'd recommend getting that diagnoses and corrected. Hopefully it is just bearings, but it could be something else.
We broke the front diff support out of a case when our driver missed a shift a few years back. That caused both front axles to move freely. The whole trans was scrapped at that point.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
22b sti 5 speed is pretty fun to have for city driving. it takes a bit fuel but it picks speed good. Especially with a Ej255 running at 8:5:1 compression ratio and 14.5 pounds of boost pressure. with the dccd version the lock mode gives good acceleration. it's not heavy either. The 6 speed is quite heavy and affects drivability at city limits. But on the highway the 6th gear allows for more speed.
None of us are surprised how expensive this is 😂😂😂
🔥🔥🔥
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I blew up my 5 speed in my '12 WRX and got myself a JDM 5 speed transmission and diff off a '13 WRX. Are JDM 5 speeds any improvement compared to USDM 5 Speeds?
Thanks for your question. Basically, no. They are all still using the same gear box architecture.
Thank you for watching and Stay Tuned!
TL;DW: Sure, but why would you?
Can the dccd diff from a 6 speed be installled on the 5 speed
Thanks for the question. Unfortunately it cannot. The tail sections are completely different between the two.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Would you need a sti gauge cluster for a 6 speed or does the aftermarket dccd controller not need it?
map dccd has the 'gauge' built in
Thanks for your question. The STI cluster isn't needed to do the swap. And as mentioned here, if you want the lights to display the DCCD function, the MAP DCCD controller does that as well.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
my local pick and pull charges $200 for a 5 speed so it is equally cost effective to just buy 35 5 speeds
That is certainly a way to go 🙂
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Hey guys thanks for answering my question! I’m the Joe you mention lol. I paid about $5000 for parts including the rebuild kit and labor by Andrewtech in 2015 so prices were slightly lower… I ordered the PPG torsen diff for about $1900 and I installed it myself. Other things that went into me considering this choices was axles and brakes because my setup is in a 2002 WRX wagon. At the time I didn’t know what to do about the longer axles from a sedan as well as the hub conversion to 5x114.3 which would require getting new wheels. (I have 18” Prodrive P1s which I love) It was just very convenient to remove and replace with the same trans. Also if you ever have to replace or repair Brembos it can be very expensive. Any other questions let me know! Love your videos and tech discussions!
Thanks very much Joe, and glad that you liked the video! Stay Tuned!
Went from a 4.11 ratio 5 speed to 3.9 ratio 6 speed an never looked back. The 6 speed literally transformed how the whole car feels overall. No question, 6 speed or bust!
Nice! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Man I have to say I had the opposite opinion. I broke 2/3 in my 02 wrx 5 speeed. Basic Cobb and a vf34 twin scroll. Maybe 330 ish hp. I did a full 07 sti 6 speed swap, had custom races made for the cvs to keep hubs and the r180. With the quick spooling vf34 the 6 speed final drive ratios ruined the car for me. I sold the car since I put so much into it. and upgraded majorly. 03 wrx 530hp gt4088 twin scroll with a built ppg 1-4 straight cut 5 speed. Stupid fast. But maybe with the bigger turbo now the 6 ratios would feel better.
Just curious on yalls opinions on blast plates and how useful those are in a 5 speed transmission
They don't really fix the core problem with the 5-speeds, which is most likely why there has never been any concrete data about how much of a change they make to 5-speed durability. Dave from Rallispec had some interesting experience with them as well. You should go through that video if you have a chance. Lots of good information in there.
th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I have them and the difference in feeling is amazing, have spoken back and fourth with a privateer rally guy that was nuking 5speeds until he started using them.
The theory is that 5 speed transmissions stretch/twist under high power applications. This allows gears to grenade themselves.
So blast plates keep the transmission from flexing,keep the gears from grenading. My tuner autocrossed a wrx swapped outback making 500hp, and with blast plates, had no issues...
@@StarwindIV glad to hear this from someone else. i know of 2 people running them, 1 at strip has had many launches on semi's and its still together and the rally guy but he did brake with blast plates after 2 full seasons, were before plates was every couple races lol
@@proximitybeejay3673 I will say, I wouldn't recommend hard launches constantly with a stock 5 speed and blast plates, but, for hard driving, should be fine imo
Hi I've heard great things about the blast plates for the 5 speed transmission. Do you have knowledge about this?
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. We discuss them here:
th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ISF-QyMULHe1vOqT
The short answer is that they are not capable of correcting the fundamental design issues that make the 5-Speed transmission more prone to issues at higher power levels, and they can potentially cause issues of their own.
I'd say it would be best to focus on something like a 6-speed swap if you need the additional strength.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
In those price comparisons did you not include labor for the 6 speed swap or was that already included in the price?
Hello i have build transmission strong 5 speed Albins-Gear semi Helical, my car have 435 HP and 460 N/m torque, plate Exedy stage 2, oem flywheel, disk ACT stage 2, all bolt in transmission Steel 12.9 torque 50N/m, oem 35 N/m and don’t have any problem make 15000 km very strong.
Glad to hear your 5MT is holding up.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I had this exact scenario recently and went with the 6-speed for all the reasons you mentioned. The video with Dave was a tremendous help and really pushed me over the edge. Now for me going from JDM 5-speed (STI type RA with DCCD) to a JDM 6-speed (with DCCD) the ratios are actually better. Basically the same ratios for 1-4 and a closer 5-6, making 5th a more usable gear. Thank you for all the great videos, keep them coming.
Very glad to hear that the information was helpful! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What kind of top speed have people gotten on just the 6 speed swap with the wrx diffs?
Thanks for watching and thanks for the question. The ratio of 5th gear in the 5 speed is the same as 6th gear in the 6 speed, so there is no difference in top speed.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I had a 5speed got a deal on full 6speed swap including breembo my little issue is am feeling the gears a bit stiff at times & sometimes reverse a bit hard to get any advice great video but never regret the swap as i don't daily the car
As of right now me bader and several others are throwing well over 1100whp at the 2015+ stock from factory trans
Nice! Yes, the STI transmission is a very stout drivetrain for sure.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Great videos as always. Just wanted to put my 0.02 here…. Original owner of a 2011 WRX here that I’ve had for almost 12 years now. Been running my car on the 5spd the entire time with 410ft lbs of wheel torque through it with no problems to this day.
I think what’s been the most important thing is respecting the transmission for what it is. Don’t dump clutches, hard shift, or roll on throttle in too tall of a gear. The transmission loves to be finessed into the right gear at the right engine speed,unlike other vehicles Respect it and it’ll last a long time.
Thanks for the comment and glad to hear that your 5MT is still working well for you!
Stay Tuned!
I agree, but the older ones are the weaker ones, 02-07. That said, I had my 5 speed (bugeye) for 172k and it was still really smooth. Only reason I pulled it was for a full STi swap.
I send mine often (mostly pulls). It's had the same gears in it for 140k miles. I'm going to get ppg's just to have some piece of mind.
Nice! I have a stock location Comp TBB 56mm turbo on 91oct in a 2006 WRX Wagon w/5sp all stock internals and make around 400wtq. Over 50k miles on this setup and only issue Ive had in the driveline was due to rear end incident
Having had the 6 speed fail on the third session of the first track day I did with a 2018 Type-RA when I had it, I decided I would rather run a cheap car with cheap 5 speeds and just throw in used 5 speeds for cheap if they fail LOL
That is certainly a way to go :-)
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I love my 5 speed but we built a 400+ hp setup and I'm only on 10psi 😢 Its been my daily for about 3 years and no issues but in turning the power up finally and I know the trans isn't going to last.
Not to rehash this subject, but I am curious about these two options versus a sequential
Thanks for the question. Have you watched our video about putting a sequential in our Pikes Peak Car?
th-cam.com/video/n-xTv0nmxig/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bNPcZ_4corbTCe10
Definitely take a look at that, and post any follow up questions on that video and we'll do our best to help.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
My main issue is 100Km/h cruising speed where either in a 5spd or 6spd the engine RPM is just shy of 3000 RPM and the 5spd ratios do the turbo justice. 1st gear is almost useless so taller ration diff's would be a good option for me. At the moment I'm running 225x55x17 tyres with speedo correction, this has dropped my 100Km/h RPM down to 2600 which provides much better economy and range per tank. I've driven 6spd subi's but I prefer my 5spd.
Thanks for the comment. Stay Tuned!
Watching this makes me feel so much better about the $ spent on my car that has a full 6 speed swap in it. I bought my RS for $15k with an EJ207 in it and a full 6spd swap, all done by Rallispec back in 2017-2018. It is running the EJ207 ECU and functional AVCS
Very cool! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Dream build hahaha I'm jealous
You got ripped off for 15k lol, sti swapped gc go for 8-12k
@@AndrewB23 where lmao
The 5 speed isnt worth building imo. I had an RA gear 5 speed break on me on a vf34 e85 set up. I then went to a 6 speed with an auto driveshaft and re used my r160 diff. i spent about 3300 on the swap including the little things that were needed.
Nice! Thanks for the comment and Stay Tuned!
I ended up building 5 speed as couldn't justify cost of full changeover and wasn't brand new. 1st to 4th straight cuts dog box (PPG gear sets) and love it. Run 450whp and 830nm torque no issues.
Can see the pros of the 6 speed for sure!
I have been holding on to a 5mt with dccd and 4.44 ratio for years
Nice! They are very cool for sure.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Next topic what is the max power and torque you can get out of a 5eat? I've heard around 400whp with an external transmission cooler i feel like no one ever talks about the autos I've been told there pretty good
Can’t forget the 4eat if y’all ever do the video plz
Thanks for the question. I'll add it to the list, but I will say that we don't have any 5EAT cars that we work with currently.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I am surprised this channel isn’t over a million subscribers strong, quality stuff
Thanks very much! Very glad that you found the channel and enjoy the content. Please help us get the word out 🙂
Stay Tuned!
This is good information. It's been a couple of years now be we spoke about building my 04 Forester XT engine. The build has been finished now for a while and is super solid. I appreciate the knowledge you shared with me. It came off the dyno with 350 whp and 350 lbs-ft of torque. Needless to say, I drive pretty easy to keep the trans together. Though there are the occasional spirited drive moments. No launching just rolling into the power. I have been throwing the idea around for a bit now on swapping over the trans or building out the 5MT. Outside of throwing on some blast plates, It seems that the 07 STI 6MT is the way to go. Thanks again for the info. Look forward to the next video.
Very glad to hear that the Forester is working out well for you, and glad that we could help!
If you need any help when you are ready to do the 6MT swap in the Forester, just let us know.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Off the line on the street I liked the 06 5 spd with 3.70 final, picked up speed fast in 1&2 gears. After 409,000km it blew 2nd & locked up. 2013 6 spd in now gives piece of mind for power levels
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
At about 500ftlbs the 5 speed lasts about ~100pulls
Thanks for the comment. Stay Tuned!
Built? ... more like built of glass 😂
Great idea for a topic! Just swapped in a 6 speed myself after blowing a 5 speed at about 330 ft-lbs. (never launched, blew 2nd) and am really curious what you have to say (haven't watched yet).
Definitely take a look at the video. Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Watched it and wasn't disappointed! Glad that I went with the six speed in hindsight and interesting observation about the lack of support in the main gearshaft. I had previous read about the issue of the gears pushing apart under heavy load as being the reason for failure, even in PPGs, but people had typically attributed that to case flex, rather than any lack of support in the gear shaft itself.
I'm curious if you think that straight cut gears, if you can tolerate the whine, would hold up much better, since they should, in theory, push apart less under load, compared to helical.
It also sounds like blast plates, which were once thought to reinforce the case against flex and mitigate the issue, would do nothing to solve this issue. Wonder if that matches people's experience with them...
@@Currancchs The issues with the 5MT transmissions really come down to the case, and the overall design. There just isn't a way to improve or overcome those issues without changing the design of the transmission itself.
For me its not worth the time & effort for the gains, & the ppg straight cut said $3499 & u said 3400 😑 total of 7k not $6900, 100 bucks is a 100 bucks, do what i did, i bought a crashed 3L liberty 6 speed for $1500 & swapped it & sold everything else, got a free 6 speed swap
--Does the 2022 WRX 6MT have the old WRX 6MT, or is it the STI 6MT? Or other? I mean, exactly what 6MT is in the 2022 WRX?
--If it's the old WRX 5MT that was converted to a 6MT, is it worth it to buy an STI 6MT and put it in my 2022? Or, maybe buy a 5MT and build it?
Thanks for your question. The 2022 WRX has the same transmission as the 2015 - 2021 WRX. It is a split case transmission with 6 gears. It is not the STI 6-speed.
The WRX has always had a split case transmission design, so there are a lot of similarities between the WRX 5-speed and WRX 6-speed. But they are not the same transmissions.
You can install an STI 6-speed transmission into a 2015 - 2021 WRX and there are a lot of benefits to it. I do assume that it will be possible to do that same swap in the new WRX, but we just don't have much information about it yet.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
There are more version of 6mt gearing, while JDM is short and doesn't give you longer final gear, USDM/EDM hawkeye 6 speed has longer gears that are somewhere between WRX 5speed gearing and the 6th is longer than WRX 5th so it is beneficial as well. And for people outside the US and Japan, the STI had non-DCCD 6speed until 2005 which can be sourced cheaper and doesn't need any additional wiring.
is there a stronger Ring & Pinion option for the 5 speed? I want to use one in a FWD application. and with all the torque now going to the front diff, I have to worry.
Thanks for your question. I'm not aware of a stronger R&P for the 5MT front. I believe that Albins may have made an aftermarket R&P gear set at one time, but I'm not sure if that is still an option.
Best of luck and thanks for watching.
Stay Tuned!
i have a 2007 wrx and from what i can gather it is literally the worst candidate for a swap everything must be replaced the knuckles and suspension the brakes and rear diff would you still reccommend the swap on this vehicle my goal is 500 hp
Thanks for your question. If you want to make 500 whp, I think your only reliable option is a 6-speed swap.
Lots of information on that here which is a collection of our other videos on the subject:
www.flatironstuning.com/sti-6-speed-swaps-everything-you-need-to-know
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What about PPG 5mt dogbox vs 6MT. Obviously the Dogbox is more expensive but is it faster?
Thanks for the question. A PPG dogbox would be a lot more than a 6-speed, especially if you were going to do something with the differentials. And they have also not proven to be nearly as reliable for holding power, etc.
Would it be faster? Only in some specific circumstances I'd say where you might be able to shift the dogbox less.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have a 2013 WRX with a 5spd and I was actually looking into building mine up as I love the gear ratio, and the weight differences, but I’m torn with having a 6spd just for the dccd though. I’m only daily driving mine though, haven’t the money to even begin to think about tracking it just yet. Great video all around and might just help me make up my mind, thanks guys! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Very glad that this was helpful! We have a lot of other 6-speed content on the site, which might help too.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
The best option is to buy a busted used 6 speed and build that. The selectors in the STI trans are made of glass.
Very informative video with a great answers 👍 I have my own questions overall I'm not a mechanic I'm just a SUbi enthusiast. I have a 2003 Subaru Baja non turbo 2.5L 4cylinder 165 hp with 250 thousand miles on it. I really love this car I really wanted finally bought 6 month ago the engine is weak started to consume a lot of oil and transmission doesn't shift as smooth as supposed to be with that all being said I want to do on engine upgrade with turbo and 6sp manual transmission I'm on a budget but not specting to be cheap. What recommendation would you suggest on this particular model in order to make the swap. By the way this car is not for a racing it will be for car show and daily driver. Hopefully you take the time to read my comment thank you very much
Thanks for your question. The short answer is that you don't want an STI 6-speed in an NA Subaru typically. All of the gearing is a good deal taller in the turbo cars because they have a lot more power. So if you put that in your NA car, you will not get nearly the same useable benefits that you would if you had an STI, etc.
My best advice is that you just have the existing transmission rebuilt.
Hope that helps and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
I could be wrong, But I think the price of the PPG gearset has actually gone down? I thought I remember the gear set alone being like $6-7000 like 6-7 years ago. Might have been for the full rebuild though.
Thanks for your question. That price sounds like the cost of a full build with those gears, but it is a little hard to say.
Either way, they are an investment.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
My MY99/00 5 speed was re-built with custom shaft With Late model STI Gears 1-2-3 and Wider Late Model WRX gears 4-5.
(there is a bit of a larger RPM Drop from 3rd to 4th than when it was stock, but i adjusted to it in couple days)
- Does 55-60kph in 1st and 115-120kph in 2nd @ only 6500rpm.
- Modified Syncros i can shift into 1st at about 40kph for downshifting.
(tho i normally dont thrash the car as i want my 99 GF8 to last me another 15-20 years as its my last car)
It sounds like you are running something close to the V6 STI gears.
Glad it is working well for you.
Stay Tuned!
You sure can!! I chose the Pfitzner 1st-4th straight cut gear set for my 02 WRX 5 speed and it's been bulletproof for years now
Glad those gears are working out for you. Stay Tuned!
How many whp?
After pricing on your site it looks like a full swap, with new parts, would come in alot closer to 15k without labor than the 6-7k mentioned. At this price I can build 2-3 5 speeds with gears. Admittedly the cases will still be weaker but a much more viable option for those of us with cars worth a fraction of the 6 speed swaps.
Hmmm. I'd need to see the options you selected. The number that we came to in the video is straight from our site, with the options selected.
Though that is a minimal estimate, yours seems quite high.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning looked like the basic swap contains tranny, linkage, and mounts. But wouldn't a person need the rear diff, clutch and flywheel, axles, dccd controller, and possibly brakes to complete the project? For my particular 5x100 hub vehicle it would need to be a dedicated and sponsored track car to do the swap with new parts.
Nope, not at all. We just put this together on our site as a full resource with information on the swap. The minimal parts that we discuss in this video are all the parts that are absolutely required. Everything else is basically optional.
I would recommend a DCCD controller though, that has a number of benefits too.
www.flatironstuning.com/sti-6-speed-swaps-everything-you-need-to-know
I looked into this as well and maybe it depends a lot on which WRX you have. After watching the Flatirons video for doing the 6-speed swap into a GR it looks like I would need all those extra items.
...so... long story short, just sell your WRX and buy an STI
Correct!!!!!
Is my v6 STI 5 speed any stronger than a stander USDM wrx 5 speed?
Thanks for your question. Here is a link to a video where we take a look at some of the STI 5-speed gears actually:
th-cam.com/video/aLpTeMGKDRk/w-d-xo.html
The short answer is that there is no significant difference between your V6 STI gears and the Legacy GT gears/2008 - 2014 WRX gears.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Are you comparing a rebuilt 5-speed to a used 6-speed or a new or rebuilt one.
I have also heard horror stories of not being able to find anyone that would rebuild a 6-speed. What would that cost?
Thanks for your question. The comparison is most everything new in the 5MT or a new 6MT. And yes, it is tricky to find a good shop to rebuild an STI 6-speed for sure. We would recommend Rallispec in New Jersey. That is who we are working with on all of our 6-Speed builds.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What is the strength caparison of the WRX 2015+ 6MT to the sti 6 speed?
Thanks for your question. The split-case 6-speed in the WRX since 2015 is roughly equivalent to the previous 5-speed WRX transmission. Because of the 4.11:1 final drive, it may be a bit more reliable, but it is still not the same as the STI 6-speed transmission.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
If you don’t chase massive power the 4:11 5 speed is bliss, x specially with the V series turbo say VF22 or 28
4.11 5-speeds can certainly be fun. 4.44 too depending on the application.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
blasst plates are a solution
So sequential it is❤
Would a legacy GT transmission or XT 5 speed be worthy of an upgrade before investing in a 6 speed?
Thanks for your question. All of the 5-speed turbo cases are based on the same design. So they would all fall under the same conversation that we had here.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Would a PPG 1st-4th gear set work in a Legacy Spec B 6 spd?
Thanks for your question. Yes, there are 1-4 gear set options for the 6-speed transmissions.
They are a different design from any of the 5-speed gear sets though because the parts are not interchangeable between the two.
Thank you for watching and Stay Tuned!
Yup lol looked this up with the consideration of building the 5 speed, but definitely threw that thought out the window
Glad we could help and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
Is there a difference in strength between the 5 speed AWD and 2WD transaxles? e.g. TM752 vs TY752
@Jon, What's your thoughts on "Blast Plates"?
Thanks for your question. I will actually direct you to the Podcast that we did with Dave from Rallispec. Here is that link:
th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.html
We discuss the blast plates there, and I'd say that would be your best source for information.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I have a question. Is there a video of testing blast plates on a stock 5 speed?
Thanks for your question. We haven't done any testing with the blast plates, and we don't have any plans to.
They were largely covered in our conversation about 5-speeds and 6-speeds with Dave from Rallispec here:
th-cam.com/video/vwi68Qd-mwE/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Question for you guys. I had the chance to take my friends 6spd swapped WRX for a spin, the main thing I noticed was how much higher the clutch engagement was (pedal almost all the way released) compared to my easy to modulate 5speed with the engagement at the middle of the pedal stroke. Is that poor adjustment or how it’s supposed to be??
Thanks for your question. I'd say that is not normal honestly.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I bought the 08 LGT gear set years ago from you guys for my 5spd. I wanna say I spent around $3500 give or take to have it rebuilt back in like 2010 or so.
Nice! My 5-speed is still going strong as well, but I'm not making a ton of power either.
Thanks for watching Keith and Stay Tuned!
Hello.. just watched the video.. thank you for the great info and comparison.. I’ve done both 6speed swap and also a 5speed upgrade using a Moores Blast plate
I would like to suggest that the moores plate has withheld up to 450whp/torque.
Perhaps you guys can look into this and talk about it in your next podcast for the cheapest / reliable 5speed performance use. 😬
Thanks very much for the comment. We talk about the blast plates with Rallispec in the video linked for what it is worth.
I'll add your question to the list.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Just get the 6spd with Dccd end of story.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
As someone who has yet to get their Subaru (but really wants to for time attack) the question I’ve been toiling with is just waiting longer and getting an sti or getting a WRX at a fraction the price and doing the swap. With a new 6 speed in a 04-05 it seems like it’ll basically be the same price as getting an sti. I could buy used and save like 3k on the same swap. The full scope of the dream is building out for GridLife street and then street mod classes in the next 5+ years. I feel like if I keep the whp below 600 I could stick with a mostly stock sti drive train reliably and save money in the long run. I want to try and plot this out as best I can so I don’t creep completely out of control but I’m lost on this initial decision.
Thanks for your question. Honestly, there are a number of reasons to start with an STI for motorsport applications over a WRX. The transmission is just a part of it. If you want to build the car up from a shell, then the shell is really the important part.
But if you want to start with the car as it is, and build it up over time, the STI has a lot of advantages in terms of drivetrain, differentials, brakes, suspension, etc.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning the end goal is getting to around 550 whp with a solid power band. Would stock Sti trans, shafts and axles handle that reliably or would I end up replacing them anyway? From what I gathered the stock trans might, but idk about the rest of the drive train
@@IMR_Seb For the STI, I would be comfortable with the trans, axles, and R180 rear diff at that power level. Now you will most likely want a clutch type differential in the rear and possibly in the front as well. But the basic framework of the STI drivetrain has a lot of good options for that.
@@FlatironsTuning thanks a million
Hi could anyone tell me the best place to buy a new or rebuilt 6 speed transmission in the uk ?
ill probably be doing the change to a sti 6 speed it looks like.
i see your website offers everything to make this happen. not to insult the company, but do you guys carry a high amount of transmissions/ driveshafts/ etc new or used in order for people to make these builds possible? or do you source them after an order has been placed?
6spd case with stronger 5 speed gears set
The two transmissions are completely different designs and parts will not transfer from one to the other. But there are gear options for the STI 6-speed transmissions.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
6 Speed All The Way
Agreed. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
ive been wondering how strong the geared auto transmissions are? me coming from my 2010 outback 3.6 that has the 5eat and my 05 lgt 5eat i love the transmission. ive seen on fb groups of people pushing them over 400 but that's about it
Jon's the man 💪
Thanks very much! Stay Tuned!
Love the vids!
Thanks very much! Please share them if you can to help the channel grow.
Stay Tuned!
Wish there was a cheap option for a six speed swap
It's thousands cheaper to do than what was quoted in the video.
And that's with the R180 and Brembos.
if you have an 02-05 wrx the cheap way to do the sti 6 speed swap would just be getting the 6 speed and getting an auto driveshalf from an 02-07 inpreza and keep your rear end. i did the swap myself and it only ended up being around 3300 for me with the little things that were needed. I've had friends who did it cheaper than me. I guess it just the cost of the 6 speed that people are really willing to sell for.
Disclaimer: Just my findings; Love FT and buys parts from them; FT has been very helpful with my 2002 WRX; not advertising anyone else... just sharing knowledge from those who build 5 and 6spd MT for Subaru.
Question: How is the car being used? What is the horsepower/torque? This should dictate everything.
A 2.0L is a 2.0L, not a 6.0L LS. Subaru builds phenomenal power per liter. I wish Subaru had a 6.0L, I would make it fit. 🙂 That being said, it is my belief that 4 cylinder cars should be as light as possible in weight. As a penny saved is a penny earned, weight saved is power earned.
1) 5spd cases can only take about 350 FtLbs of torque due to the helical gears pushing the shafts out the end of the case. If you go with a straight cut gear, this problem is reduced significantly. The driving style will dictate what the 5spd will hold, as well. However, straight cut gears are noisy.
2) I have been informed by the builders there is about 100 lbs in spinning mass difference from the 5spd to the 6spd. If this is the case, this will definitely take away the responsiveness of the drivetrain. From this site (FT) and others, it has been stated up to 350HP/350FtLbs is the threshold of reliability for WRX/STI. Thus, one has to ask him/herself where will the power be maxed out at for the particular setup.
3) What I have been told: If you are going upwards of 500HP or more, you want the 6spd for reliability; simply put the 5spd will become a grenade at this power level. Stay with a 5spd setup as long as you can, especially if you don't exceed the 350HP/FtLbs mark. You will lose power to the ground due to the +100lbs spinning mass in the 6spd.
4) Many different types of gear ratios are available, and depending on the power level, you don't need bullet proof gears; you just need gears that have been proven to sustain the power and torque you are going to use.
5) Do not modify the gears after buying them such as smoothing them, or treating them. This will throw the tolerances way out, and cause the gears to not mesh as they were designed. To John's point, you will get less surface contact on the teeth because the tolerances are altered. So, a perfect set of gears for your application and power can be completely destroyed when "You" decide to add in your own internet engineering. Listen to the pros and accept what they have to say; they know what they are doing.
6) What I have been taught, and see: More shifts means more time. The last time I checked, drivers/racers want less time. Hmmmm? 🤔
7) YOU WANT FULL POSITRACTION!!! Believe me, this has made a huge difference for me on the street and taking corners and keeping traction. This is real AWD, not the open diff crap you get from the factory. This is especially helpful on non-asphalt services, or when there is gravel on the roads and in corners. FAIR WARING! You will have to change your driving style... You have to steer the car back straight when coming out of the corner. If you do not, the car will continue to turn that direction.
8) Choose a gear set that compliments the performance of your engine. DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE! Make sure you have done the math to ensure the gears you are using don't shift you out of your boost/power range. If the engine is not built yet, then pick the drivetrain you want, then build the engine to compliment that drivetrain. DO THE MATH FOR BOTH... Engine and drivetrain.
9) Keep Horsepower numbers out of your head... I have seen properly setup cars (engines and drivetrains matched in form and function) with less horsepower annihilate higher horsepower cars on the street. That is fact.
My Setup for those who care... I have an 02 WRX Wagon (Grocery Getter). The stock 5spd MT would allow me to see speeds up to 135ish. However, shifting would cause the engine to fall out of boost. With much consideration and how I drive, I gave up one thing I wanted to keep... I went to 3.0 1st gear instead 3.4 1st. Thus, I have to work the clutch more, I can launch and stay in 1st longer, go to 2nd gear and stay in boost. This affords me 1-4 in boost. I also forfeited top 4th gear speed, but probably to save me from going to jail. Here is the setup for my grocery getter. Believe me, 0-107mph is very fast and aggressive, considering it is currently a 275HP USDM 2.0L with 194K miles. In the near future it will be max 350HP/FtLbs 2.0L JDM motor.
1) 5 spd MT custom built by ????? Design. Dual first and RA 2-4 gears; Dual carbon synchros 1st and 2nd and new synchros for the rest; stock 5th gear for highway speeds; Torsen LSD in the front.
2) R160 AP Racing posi rearend
3) Kept stock 3.9 gear ratio, with 1.1 reduction setup. (Side note: 1.1 reduction is a clever design by Subaru. I like the science behind it. It reduces the speed of the driveshaft to save power.)
4) Running a steel 1 piece driveshaft (5lbs savings from stock 2 piece) for durability and repair. Carbon too expensive for budget, and cannot be repaired easily or at all. Aluminum would require a hammer for clearance issues... not going to happen.
5) Using a Spec clutch kit, nothing fancy, with stock flywheel to keep the harmonics under control on the street for drivability and rush hour traffic. I would rather have the clutch slip in the future than allow the power of the new engine to break the trans. Clutch kits are less expensive.
Pricing:
Trans: $4600 includes some extras (bushings, etc)
Diff: $900
Steel Driveshaft: $600
Clutch Kit: $350
TOTAL: $6450 not including speeding tickets 😋🤣😂
Simple answer before I even watch the video. No