@@Man1fest135 I am not kidding. *I really wanna play smash with his son.* _yes, i know i'm gonna get my butt kicked if i main GNW and he can even beat the #1 Mr. Game & Watch, but it's worth a shot_
@@zainmushtaq4347 October 2022: "I can't believe Leo picked this low tier trash, AGAIN" November 2022 tier lists: "yeah we think Duck Hunt is around high-low tier, maybe mid-high"
@@mcrsmash8319 Steve is busted yes but Leo not only lacks the mu knowledge but also decided to play a character that in theory would do worse than some of his other picks. He could have played Aegis or Corrin or even Joker if he was struggling. It's also on him for not adapting.
@@mcrsmash8319 wish steve was never introduced to smash. Literally the only character that does not belong here. Might as well have had tetris instead atleast it would deserve it more then steve. 😒 Only watched this match to see how much it can carry someone against leo. And well it carries them well.
@@dnegel9546 Ok stop that. Minecraft is literally the best selling game of all time. He deserves to be in this game before literally every other dlc character we got. That being said. I really hope the dev team can do something about this, I don’t mind Steve being top tier, but this version we have of him now is fuckin nuts.
@@sekkiii374 Leo has been 3-0'ing Steves though? Steve just has the tools to be played in different ways (like Melee Fox), so Leo beats one type of playstyle but played poorly against this one.
@@-_--_-2335 "matchup checked". Either a lack of knowledge causing you to lose, or your character is just atrociously bad into the other character. In this case, probably both since we can all agree that Leo is a better player by far. Losing 3-0 that badly should not even happen on his off-day.
@@SiiNTi nah we need someone to climb their way to the top that isn’t a Steve player for once, if there’s a Steve I’m always rooting against them Then again the Steve players don’t deserve hate
@@SiiNTi my dude you don't get 6 16 years old teenagers no one ever heard about before the release of a character take over the scene at the same time with the same character
idk how I feel about how such a defensive character like steve able to casually up tilt and up air someone for 43-67% damage every time he get hit with with just one them when his character can cut off all other approaches like that.
@@charlyy1337 byleth is one of the slowest characters in the game also, lacks barely any ways to get in on his opponents, and struggles with any type of rushdown mk Leo is just that good. Besides her/him tho who does he play that is that defensive and has a sword?
@@charlyy1337 but there is a difference between play style and a character being designed to be defensive. I can play a campy fox or a campy zero suit but those characters aren’t primarily built for those play styles. There is no reason for Steve to be this strong in certain areas when his core design is to play passively
Not a lot of people are mentioning that Leo’s Byleth seemed pretty rusty today and yesterday against fatality. It has been a while since he’s played Byleth in tourney.
Ok so ... the meta in Japan has been adapted to much more than over here. We have proto banham beating acola in a best to 10. We have Zackray defeating Shuton's Steve in a last game last stock grand finals situation with Zackray using Joker. The players over here in NA have not played against top level Steve's yet to be able to adapt but honestly, once the match up has been learned and people learn counter picks steve won't be an issue in the future of smash...but hes definitely going to cause top players to evolve their gameplay and actually force people to evolve their adaptability too.... but honestly... when Japan comes to the next Smash Major... we will be witnessing major upsets!!!
@@mir8651 Shuton has been playing Steve for a while, he was the one who convinced Acola to pick up the character. He only recently started using it in bracket, but he knows the character fs
i only say this because we’ve seen him stick it out with characters when it doesn’t mean he’s going to be eliminated, if he faces a steve in top 8 i’m fairy sure he will play a diff character
Leo played pretty poorly IMO. His movement, approach, patience and option coverage was worse than usual. He threw out up B super often, in situations he usually never does. His gameplay just not on top.
Uh oh… we’re in some serious trouble. I thought the best player in the world would have an answer for Steve, but this man got swept so hard, I swear I was watching MKLeo’s first day of Smash Ultimate
The best player in The world Finds a way to go from Loosers all the way to the Grand Finals, Also the best player in the world downloads his oponents. Couldnt you tell Leo just needs a faster character?
@@DGSnowolf actually he has been playing the mu since online, its just steve with a true combo from 0-60 and you’re 1 diamond bair, smash or anvil to die
Perhaps the most depressing set in Smash Ultimate's history. Hope it's a one-thing though, Leo admitted himself he didn't play too well, I guess he will adapt/improve in this matchup in the future.
@@Daniel-ui3zy Right? I loved this set, great to see Leo have a real challenge to overcome (and also great to see that even the best player in the world can get caught flat-footed sometimes)
He certainly didn’t play his best. He made a lot of mistakes I don’t think he would have made normally. But in terms of “learning the matchup”, you can learn most of the things Steve has, but learning counterplay to setups and kill confirms is just going to be a whole new challenge.
I’m absolutely not the most familiar with matchups, but I was kind of surprised that MkLeo didn’t use Corrin for this matchup. I know that the Aegis and Joker are the other two that I am hearing others argue that he should have used, but I think that perhaps Corrin’s neutral air and Counter Surge could have helped for things like breaking blocks and answering the anvils as examples.
Everyone knows that Leo is so good he gets bored at times and he wants to win with different character picks. I don’t think he cared to much either. Crazy thing is Leo’s going to go on a crazy losers run and win the whole thing.
Congrats to Onin. I love to see the respect he showed Leo after he won-no cocky popoff. You know Onin’s heart was pounding after just 3-0’ing the GOAT this set. Something I’ve always loved about Leo is that he carries himself gracefully and shows respect to everyone he plays, win or lose. Cool to see Onin do the same
Still don't understand. This guy is very very young. He comes from a little place in Michigan so he didn't have opportunities to play Steve offline. He come to SSC and DESTROY everyone at his first offline competitive attempt. He even 3-gamed and 3-stocked Leo. Is he the greatest talent of all time or Steve had an unrevealed potential still had to be showed?
I think the way Steve plays in this game is exactly how Minecraft is as a game where the limit of things you can do is completely up to your imagination and ability to pull it off, and so his skill cap just goes so much further beyond any other character in the entire game
Steve has the best mixups in the game. Leo didn't know what to expect half the time. Because he has SO many options and is quite a defensive character, he practically calls every neutral interaction. It's up to the pros to analyze all of Steve's options and capitalize on them. Not an easy thing to do consistently.
@@silverpotato4272 IF there is consistent counterplay to be developed and how long will it take? How long must players endure such shenanigans just to be on a somewhat level playing field and even if counterplay is found, will every character be able to do it? How niche will the counterplay be and most importantly, how effective? It's annoying at best and down right unfun no matter how you look at it.
@@jalalal8056 and also its not like steve is the only character people have to play against, there is way too many viable characters in smash and u have to know all their shenanigans otherwise u are going to losers just in brackets
@@slayer4592 steve from a purely developmental standpoint is broken. He was made during covid by sakurai and did not have enough time to be balanced properly.
Bro half of y’all ain’t watching the same game I am. Game one Leo was meeting this dude in the air and on the ground and taking center at the perfect moments but he continuously got out-hit-boxed. The few moments he wasn’t he was capitalizing like a monster but nah getting up tilted at 0-55 in 3-4 hits yea that’s just bad matchup right there clear as day huh
@@unstoppableawesome dog what? You say he’s not spacing just using byleth’s range? You mean like spacing? And he did position himself well a lot during that match as I said he kept getting center stage when it matters but got out charactered hard imo
What’s crazy about this set is that Acola would have made it look worse. Better player and he might know the Byleth matchup thanks to Rizeasu, who also lives in Kansai.
@@tysontenney804I personally disagree, I know we all just saw Steve destroy byleth, however, if you can pressure Steve, he doesn’t have much to do besides mine cart
I don't understand why Leo doesn't make more tactical character swaps when he has so many characters he can play well. Byleth is a great spacing character that's good against aggressive rush down type characters... why is he running him against steve? Feel's like Mythra rush down or Joker spacing with guns would be superior here. Edit: I swear I wrote this before watching him 3-0 the steve as mythra/pyra in top 12.
My theory is once he knows the match up is fucked (Steve) he just wants to study and see what’s going on, hence his miraculous losers runs, he’ll usually adapt after the fact or at the next event.
i know a local steve main who literally struggled to nair a few months back using any other character but still got decent results. now they're getting really good placements at locals all of a sudden. i'm sorry, but steve carries really hard. edit: also my locals are FL. the players aren't bad.
@@ashketchup7354 you really don't like nuance, do you. the problem is not that "steve is good". the problem is that steve 1. encourages a playstyle which promotes not engaging with your opponent. which requires less thought. which lowers the skill floor. 2. has a skewed risk reward ratio due to tools like minecart, jab, and uptilt (and also not engaging which steve is massively rewarded for doing) which lead to anywhere from 40% to possibly even death combos. you can throw these tools out whenever you please with almost no fear of punishment. which again, means the character requires less careful consideration in his approach options which, AGAIN, lowers the skill floor. there's obviously more going on too which i could point to but i'm feeling lazy and don't feel like typing anymore. anyway, i hope you realize the nuance between a "good character" and a character that has a unique combination of tools unlike other characters which, in a lot of ways, means you don't have to think about what you're doing or weigh your risk and reward options nearly as much as other characters. which will ultimately lower the skill floor past other characters.
2022-2023 if Steve doesn't get nerfed, which he probably unfortunately wont, I lowkey see a future where he is at the same level as Bayo in S4 for MK in Brawl. This character's base toolkit is already crazy and the ceiling is absolutely insane, so when he gets properly optimized I would not be surprised to see him get banned, and honestly, I'd rather that than the scene to start fading due to the existence of such a polarizing character. Still too early, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of what's to come
I don't think so. There are characters that can handle with those situations very well. Also you need to have to a plan to confront them. It's just matter of adaptation.
8:10 "He's definitely prepared for this match!" He woke up 40 minutes before they played, ate a crunchwrap supreme, and didn't even warm up LOL. What a beast.
Some nobody shows up fresh off a nap with no warm up and completely bodies the undisputed best player in the world and people say there's no problem with Steve lmfao
@@AshenDemon hes gonna build a better memory for the match up, he lacks experience. Steve has been lucky cuz hes so obscure theres not a clamor to learn the match up until now. Especially since so many steve players coming out
@@fierypickles4450 I hate how you Steve apologist pretend like lack of match up experience will lead someone to win a super major. Because it wasn't their character at all.
Before watching: "An eleven minute best-of-5 set featuring MkLeo's Byleth? Must've been one hell of an ass beating!" After watching: *Well, **_someone_** definitely got their ass beat...*
People gonna blame Steve but honestly Leo looks like he has literally no MU experience 💀. Like tons of other players had at least taken a game off Onin, some taking 2. You could say Steve is a problem but here I gotta put the blame on Leo. Being the best doesn’t mean being infallible 🤷♀️
Im telling everyone, Mii Gunner with stealth bomber and reflector is the counter to steve. Stealth bomber is a fast projectile that ignores walls. You can pressure steve the moment he tries to mine
If it were that simple steve wouldn't be doing so well rn. Just bc some characters have tools that can deal with the block walls really well don't mean that they can automatically beat steve, because block wall isn't even the main thing that makes him unfair (ridiculous damage output, framedata, and minecart do).
I honestly can’t believe that everyone is saying Steve is overpowered. It’s probably because his weakness is a character no one ever plays…. Sonic. Sonic is too fast for Steve to be able to mine anything
I think this is the most important set in ssbu history. This set was really the catalyst for steve becoming as dominant as he is, and him getting banned in many tournaments. Leo also started his fall off after this set
I don't know what's so impressive about Onin's Steve. Maybe someone else can see it? He just minecarts or anvils out of disadvantage, prioritizes mining, and has his uptilt combos down. His gimmicks with TNT and anvil on blocks are also good. But he's not even doing any of the tricky gameplay acola does. I think this just shows how broken minecart and anvil are and the speed at which Steve collects resources is insane.
When they introduced Steve I was certain Diamond would be something you typically get on the third stock. First of all in the game diamonds are supposed to be rare and difficult to find. Second of all they gave Steve a waft or an Arsen for all but the first stock or even just half of it. I thought making it hard to get would be utterly obvious. If they really nerfed his combos with the other materials and made diamond hard to get, damage output could be his huge weakness, basically making the running away and mining thing more tight and demanding. His opponent would be on a race to beat him before diamond comes but they actually have a chance of doing so.
@@slur.s I can say the same thing for pyra/mythra and joker (before nerfs), who are "broken" characters. Steve definitely has a plenty of tools in his arsenal that can be considered "broken", but we'll see how the meta develops and how the top players adapt.
Okay so what are steve’s best and worst stages? I always see people taking him to ps2 and kalos where he gets nothing but stone and iron, would it not be better to take him to like smashville or town to make him have worse resources?
Steve main here. I think Smashville is solid for restricting his space, and Lylat forces him to mine slower and waste more iron. In my opinion Wily Castle should be legalized
That’s his opinion and Leo played the mu horribly, also heard that this mu sucks for byleth, plus Leo looked a bit off, I assume he was working on something new during the tournament.
7:19 oh wow there's actually nothing you can do once you commit to shield. Cannot release the shield after the anvil before bair and leo had a full shield too
The best part of this is all the top players like tweek, light, and marss are fuming that Steve could just beat Leo so easily through a straight matchup check
THESE IDIOTS REALLY THINK IT'S A MU CHECK. NO, IT'S STEVE BEING BROKEN WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DUMB IT'S LIKE I'M TALKING TO A BUNCH OF 5-YEAR-OLDS.... Maybe I'm getting too worked up but ya'll act like these people aren't carried.
Some shitter whose never won anything significant before steve came out and only plays elite smash to practice manages to consistently shit on elite veterans and you think there's an explanation besides a broken character?
People talk about Steve being broken, but the obvious elephant in the room I hear nobody talk about... why should characters be allowed to rack 50%+ damage from any combo? When this game was designed, it was designed with the intention of set damage per hit, but suddenly a tilt now deals 50% damage(if the player knows how to perform certain combos). Banning Steve won't solve the problem, he's a symptom of the problem. We either need seasonal patching(they stopped before there was ample enough time to assess the dlc characters) or we need to add an entirely new game mechanic that counters your opponent's move if you predict your opponent's next 2 moves(even if you're trapped in a combo).
This match honestly annoyed the hell out of me because Leo got 3-0d and 3 stocked 3rd game this easily. You got other top players trying their hardest to beat Leo and then you got Onin who casually 3-0s him. Good stuff to Onin but Steve's a menace lmao
It’s also because Leo has a lot of experience against basically every character in the game except for Steve. I doubt something like this will happen again once Leo learns the matchup
"how come leo didnt 3-0 jv4 onin after only fighting like 2 steves in his entire career" i cant even believe im saying this but this was literally the hugest matchup check ever. if this is your main reason for wanting steve banned you actually eat crayons
It's not the main reason I want Steve banned. I want him banned because he's too broken, boring to watch, can 0-to-death you for wanting to play the game, and has so much stupid crap that All these random nobodies picked him up and are doing well. This set just adds support to my argument but it was never my foundation.
@@AshenDemon "He's too broken, ban him", ok, so let's also ban Pikachu who wrecks 90% of the roster and pretty much just back airs, or Palu who can deal 70% of a nair loop and destroys slow or short range characters, or Min Min who can edgeguard in the middle of the stage. Look, you're free to hate Steve, I don't blame you, but even despite these sets, Onin is still a great player who (from what I've heard) was really good even before Steve, and no character should be banned (not even Steve) besides, how are we going to ban Steve when we never banned Bayo or MK? (Who were 1000 times better)
@@santiagoherrera1853 Onin is a great player with Steve...but for some reason, I can't remember seeing him in any tournaments before Steve. Huh, must be a memory problem.
@@rez3821 ddog is an average steve player. Doesn't do nearly enough of the things that Onin or Acola does. Most of the time when he gets his opponent off stage he doesn't do any ledgetraps, edgeguarding or use blocks effectively.
Leo played this incorrectly in my opinion. I have seen a top level Japanese Byleth (cannot find the vod, it’s one of the 8 hour long Japanese streams) nearly beat Acola. The difference was the Byleth was spacing Byleth nair in ways Steve has a hard time punishing. Here it felt like Leo was throwing out nair without spacing well or having a plan for how to follow up. Leo also got hit by obvious minecarts, anvils, and TNT gimmicks that players more experienced in the matchup would know how to avoid. Leo’s fundamentals are always godlike, but in this instance you have to know the Steve matchup. That’s what I think at least.
I’m generally surprised that MKleo didn’t practice his matches against Steve considering the fact that Steve is a popular pick now and days and most even considered him a high tier character. Hopefully other top tier players learn how to deal with Steve.
Leo was practicing the match up against a top Steve before this set. Also Steve is universally agreed to be at worst top 10 at this point. Most top players will agree he is top 3.
Leo looked off of his game this tournament I hope he can shake it off and come back stronger next tourney. That said, Onin was an absolute menace! Unbelievable performance throughout the whole tourney, csn't wait to see more!
When I watched MkLeo face off against Acola it seemed like whenever he got killed when his opponent was high damage percentage, he always found a way to kill them without taking any hits to sort of set it back to square one. Very interesting.
Smash developers need to start making DLC characters that fit in with the cast instead of “we’ll make them OP AF so people buy the DLC then tune them to a normal level in the next game.” They got a good balance probably 50% of the time with Ultimate’s DLC.
I don’t think they meant to make Steve OP, especially not just to sell more DLC. They were just confused when they made him. He’s such a complicated character that half the things that make him so good just weren’t noticed during development
@@AshenDemon [edit]: didn’t mean to write so much: *tl;dr*: Sakurai basically admitted himself for both Steve and Kazuya that he didn’t know how to balance them, leading to what he have today. yeah no. Unless Sakurai completely lies to us in his character presentations, my understanding of Steve’s and Kazuya’s balancing issues is more likely true. In both Steve’s initial trailer and in Kazuya’s presentation, Sakurai made a comment explaining how uncertain he was about the character’s place in the game’s meta. For Kazuya, he mentioned that the original version of Kazuya was incredibly weak, likely because of his poor speed, frame data, and zonebreaking power. He said that’s when he started to add intangibility frames and armor onto his moves. Not just to make him broken. Steve was a much more radical case. Sakurai said that it was extremely difficult to design Steve in such a way that was both accurate to Minecraft and fit in smash. So he wasn’t sure in the end whether or not Steve should be nerfed or buffed. Which should have meant that the game get a few more months of patches so he can fix behavior that wasn’t intentional, but alas. Sakurai mentioned he was worried that Steve’s limited attack range, garbage movement stats, and reliance on mining for resources would make him weak against the other fighters, which is probably why he was fine with giving Steve his insane frame data. Not saying the decisions the developers made were good, just saying I don’t think the end result was their intention
@@KevSB07 I don't think you can trust Sakurai with a straight face on this issue. There is a clear pattern of making DLC characters OP that is a deliberate choice. I get it that this is the revenue stream for people once they have bought the game but it is annoying that they can't balance them more like non-DLC new characters like Simon/Richter, Incineror, Ken, Ridley, etc. Compare Smash4 Bayo & Cloud (meta destroying monsters) with Ultimate Bayo & Cloud (strong characters in the right hands but much more in line with other characters). Just frustrating to see DLC characters that invalidate so much. Look at the jank hit boxes and frame data you get with the majority of the Ultimate DLC characters. Look at even the less consequential stuff like how their counters function versus the counters of all non-DLC characters. If these DLC characters return for the next smash game, it is very easy to see how much down tuning will take place for Aegis, Steve, Kazuya, Min-Min, etc. to bring them in line with the base game characters. They know how to do this as they prove with Ridley, etc. but they choose not to do so. That can only be deliberate.
Onin playing godlike along with Leos Byleth being super unfamiliar with steve made this inevitable. Steve is the biggest “either you know the mu or you get fucked up” character in a while, its not necessarily an easy to win with character or a play to win character either. You just NEED to know how to abuse Steve’s poor mobility. If he used aegis this probably would have gone much different.
Feels like joker would be the answer here, big brother counter to attempt to break combos and reflect mine cart, guns for extra random damage and a way to force an approach, and movement cuz diamond attacks are fast but Steve is kinda slow. Maybe I’m wrong but
3:55 the way Onin force habit MKLeo to use the Up B during the pressure, all other top players would just have gotten Up B, but this dude had MKLeo read.
Bruh. It's a simple mix-up lol Steve players will throw it in if they see you shielding and not rolling out. Especially if you have a good oos option like Byleth does.
@@mir8651 simple as it may be, most top players just consistently get "Up B'd" by Leo in this scenario, it's not hard to see after watching so many matches, that his habit allowed that "simple mix up" to work. If you are rolling with the Steve negativity, it's fine, en those seconds I didn't see Steve and Byleth, I saw Onin force habiting MKLeo. He will get it next for sure, don't worry.
POV: You are the best Smash Ultimate player in the world, but then Onin says "It’s finally me and you, and you and me, just us, and your friend Steve!"
The whole concept of "running away, hiding behind walls, and safely mining resources" goes against Super Smash Bros. It would have been more fun if Steve's opponent dropped materials when hit, similar to Coin Battle in Melee. Slowing down his mining speed is another suggestion. Honestly though, it feels like Steve was forced into this game and the developers dug themselves into a hole. It's hard to make a cool character when his entire design revolves around passively collecting blocks and building defensive walls. He would need a complete rework for people to not hate him.
mkleo didnt go to twitter to say "i hate steve" just remember that yall.. it takes very technical skill to do this stuff with steve as opposed to min min gameplay
@@tristanconn11 I play Steve and onin is not a technical Steve, at least to me. He could get a lot more out of his up tilt combos but it’s good to keep it simple and consistent. Still amazing player
@@playharderscrub okay i see ur point.. i was more so talking about steve in general.. like "ban steve" is so dumb to me because it takes away from the actual skill of steve mains because it is definitely not a free win going steve
@@playharderscrub like compared to minmin, steve is much easier to fight against imo and steve has to change his play style according to the character he is fighting as opposed to minmin but i still dont think minmin should be banned either.. like brawl meta knight wasnt even banned at most tourneys and he was by far without a question the best character in the game because he can avoid the tripping mechanic by flying around with a hitbox.. steve does have counter play its just hard to figure out how to fight him
Super Smash Con is still live! Check it out here: "www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp"
Is it still live tho ?
"Building up 55% anytime he just vaguely wins neutral" describes Steve perfectly.
3:59 60%
Stray hits leading to 60% is Steve's entire personality.
He sounded so salty saying that lmao
@@scattr7592 You sound pretty salty actually.
@@measlesplease1266 ong
POV: You're very concerned about why a top 32 match between mkleo and a steve suddenly showed up in your recommended
fr bro
I don't watch ssbu content much but then this happened
I searched for it myself because I heard Mkleo got ran through.
@@tyrenace6597 I searched for it because my tutor's son is Onin himself
@@DanTheMan7777 woah… are you serious??
@@Man1fest135 I am not kidding. *I really wanna play smash with his son.*
_yes, i know i'm gonna get my butt kicked if i main GNW and he can even beat the #1 Mr. Game & Watch, but it's worth a shot_
before smash con: 'don't worry, Leo will have an answer.'
during this match: Leo: 'i don't have an answer.'
2 months later, Leo: "i have mastered this completely random 'low-tier- character and will proceed to beat the sanity out of Steve mains"
@@zainmushtaq4347 October 2022: "I can't believe Leo picked this low tier trash, AGAIN"
November 2022 tier lists: "yeah we think Duck Hunt is around high-low tier, maybe mid-high"
@@crysanthiumvega lmfaoooo
@@crysanthiumvega LOLL
@@zainmushtaq4347 if Leo masters the Steve mu, it doesn’t make Steve a bad character 🤣
Leo's luck of dodging all these Steve players finally ran out
Maybe now everyone will see that this character is ridiculously broken and carries players with less skill
@@mcrsmash8319 Steve is busted yes but Leo not only lacks the mu knowledge but also decided to play a character that in theory would do worse than some of his other picks. He could have played Aegis or Corrin or even Joker if he was struggling. It's also on him for not adapting.
@@mcrsmash8319 wish steve was never introduced to smash. Literally the only character that does not belong here.
Might as well have had tetris instead atleast it would deserve it more then steve. 😒
Only watched this match to see how much it can carry someone against leo. And well it carries them well.
@@dnegel9546 Ok stop that. Minecraft is literally the best selling game of all time. He deserves to be in this game before literally every other dlc character we got.
That being said. I really hope the dev team can do something about this, I don’t mind Steve being top tier, but this version we have of him now is fuckin nuts.
@@sekkiii374 Leo has been 3-0'ing Steves though? Steve just has the tools to be played in different ways (like Melee Fox), so Leo beats one type of playstyle but played poorly against this one.
Probably the worst we’ve seen Leo get beaten
He lost really bad to Prodigy/Kurama in FrostBite too
@@NamiseSports that one was a lot more impressive. Can’t say he didn’t know the Mario matchup he used to eat Mario’s for breakfast in smash 4
@@PurposeDriven7_ That was Leo Joker though.
@@PurposeDriven7_ yea but he's using steve, it half-counts
@@PurposeDriven7_ Kurama (Prodigy) 2-stocked Leo in games 1 and 2. Game 3 went to last stock. It was a very dominant set.
I was waiting for Leo to finally face a top Steve in the new meta. I knew it would be interesting but… damn.
I saw spargo play acola
And to be honest spargo was winning most of the time. It’s just match up check,
@@karlos594 pyra mythra/cloud is a better matchup for steve than byleth so that may be why
@@genesisosuna yup, in top level play I do believe in the match up charts
@@genesisosuna eh, those matchups aren’t really that bad. I feel like Robin or Min Min is the answer to the block man
@@xanander4693 As a Robin and Hero main, those 2 work well against him.
I’m not shocked by the result but Leo losing THIS badly is crazy. He got mu checked so hard
What does getting mu checked mean ?
@@-_--_-2335 losing because lack of matchup knowledge. To keep it simple mkleo does not know the Steve matchup.
He knows the match up. Stop dick eating. He purely lost
@@-_--_-2335 "matchup checked". Either a lack of knowledge causing you to lose, or your character is just atrociously bad into the other character. In this case, probably both since we can all agree that Leo is a better player by far. Losing 3-0 that badly should not even happen on his off-day.
Steve has no bad matchups you clown. He’s completely broken
This will be the moment leo decides to never lose to Steve again
Now he can't lol
He won't because Steve is banned now 😂
Acola " are you sure about that"
@@USELESSFACTSDAILYDAY Isn't he only banned in like Kentucky or something? Other than that I haven't seen any confirmation of him being banned lol
@@Wilsbourne don't say that chef please 😭
Wow the commentators were AMAZING at laying out the importance of this match at the start there.
start??
@@hugoland9027 yes, the start Hugoland
@@sexystmanalive1 and the rest of the whole fucking match
I don’t understand why everyone is saying “Ban Steve.” Leo clearly lost to an Alex player.
People are such cry babies, rooting for steve players way more entertaining to watch then the basic boring mk leos and other top players
I think it's clear we have to ban Enderman instead, he literally kills you for looking at him directly to his eyes
@@SiiNTi "People are such cry babies, rooting for steve players way more entertaining to watch then the basic boring mk leos and other top players" 🥸
@@SiiNTi nah we need someone to climb their way to the top that isn’t a Steve player for once, if there’s a Steve I’m always rooting against them
Then again the Steve players don’t deserve hate
@@SiiNTi my dude you don't get 6 16 years old teenagers no one ever heard about before the release of a character take over the scene at the same time with the same character
I'm surprised Leo lost, but not surprised he lost to a Steve. lol
Shouldnt be steve is garbage ez mode
Before I watched the video I thought this was another troll comment but then..
@@splaturials9156 my God, learn punctuation. That sentence makes little to no sense 🥲
I’m not surprised
Onin’s cracked tho he literally beat everyone at goml, this ain’t just any Steve lol
idk how I feel about how such a defensive character like steve able to casually up tilt and up air someone for 43-67% damage every time he get hit with with just one them when his character can cut off all other approaches like that.
Stupid swordies mkleo usually plays are just as defensive of a character with massive range and passive play.
@@charlyy1337 byleth is one of the slowest characters in the game also, lacks barely any ways to get in on his opponents, and struggles with any type of rushdown mk Leo is just that good.
Besides her/him tho who does he play that is that defensive and has a sword?
@@eem2wavy133 He plays all swordies super passively. Waits for opponent to engage etc. It‘s a valid counterplay style.
@@charlyy1337 but there is a difference between play style and a character being designed to be defensive. I can play a campy fox or a campy zero suit but those characters aren’t primarily built for those play styles. There is no reason for Steve to be this strong in certain areas when his core design is to play passively
@@charlyy1337 except swordies don’t get actively rewarded for passive play like Steve does with mining resources
This was the first time Mkleo has played against a top Steve, Onin played amazing and capitalised on Leo's unfamiliarity with the matchup
aka Minecart go BRRRRRRR
@@DougDimmadome420 that shield break on the 3rd game was so cool tho
Coughcoughrockman
@@eret3 It really was though. Never saw one like that before
Leo had plenty of opportunities to switch off of byleth, if he meets onin again in this tourney I wonder if he stays byleth
Not a lot of people are mentioning that Leo’s Byleth seemed pretty rusty today and yesterday against fatality. It has been a while since he’s played Byleth in tourney.
I wasnt impressed with his pythra either tbh
Stop making excuses. 6 Steves are on top 64 and all of them are nobodies before steve happened.
@@showmeyourmoves8551 alot of people were "nobodies" before ultimate came out. nothing wrong with new players
@@f.o.8547 you're missing the point entirely lol there's no point in arguing against Steve being absolutely ridiculous in this game 🤦🏽♂️
@@showmeyourmoves8551 wasn’t making excuses. I don’t like Steve as much as the next guy. Was just pointing something I thought I noticed
Ok so ... the meta in Japan has been adapted to much more than over here. We have proto banham beating acola in a best to 10. We have Zackray defeating Shuton's Steve in a last game last stock grand finals situation with Zackray using Joker. The players over here in NA have not played against top level Steve's yet to be able to adapt but honestly, once the match up has been learned and people learn counter picks steve won't be an issue in the future of smash...but hes definitely going to cause top players to evolve their gameplay and actually force people to evolve their adaptability too.... but honestly... when Japan comes to the next Smash Major... we will be witnessing major upsets!!!
Think about it. Shuton just picked up Steve and went last game with Zackray. A top 3 player. That is all you need to know LMAO
@@mir8651 Shuton has been playing Steve for a while, he was the one who convinced Acola to pick up the character. He only recently started using it in bracket, but he knows the character fs
@@mir8651 Zackray was not top 3 when you made this comment. Shuton was and is still top 10. That's not unreasonable.
Damn I saw a 10 minute set and was like poor omin, but got damn a 3-0 against Leo sheeshhhh
Does he know 👀
Same. I even read the top comment and assumed they were trolling🤡
Lol same
@@Cystlib same lmao
Leo's Tweet:
"Yeah steve carries but i also didnt play good lmao"
Salty Tweet lmao
@@Konda_X it's true tho
The very rare Leo johns?
@@Abbaschand more like an anti-John, he's saying he didn't play well and minimizing the excuse
@@Konda_X He never tweets like this to be fair so that should be a sign that Steve is a bit lame lol
To be honest, this looked more like a matchup check than Steve being broken. We’ll see if Leo gets a rematch later and is able to adapt
i think if he was really really concerned about winning he would swap to aegis or even joker
i only say this because we’ve seen him stick it out with characters when it doesn’t mean he’s going to be eliminated, if he faces a steve in top 8 i’m fairy sure he will play a diff character
@@synthril Leo wanted to win lmao
@@DairInNeutral like if his tournament life was on the line, is what i meant
Leo played pretty poorly IMO. His movement, approach, patience and option coverage was worse than usual. He threw out up B super often, in situations he usually never does. His gameplay just not on top.
Uh oh… we’re in some serious trouble. I thought the best player in the world would have an answer for Steve, but this man got swept so hard, I swear I was watching MKLeo’s first day of Smash Ultimate
He already found it its Joker, calm down.
The best player in The world Finds a way to go from Loosers all the way to the Grand Finals, Also the best player in the world downloads his oponents. Couldnt you tell Leo just needs a faster character?
Regalo, a Lucas player took down 3 top Steve players. Steve won’t be a problem once people find the counter play.
@@reccosevil we going to see how the tourney ends.. We do not know who going to win but leo we trust. Hopefully see the joker in this match up
@@SaMiChi He took down 1 top Steve player( Yonni) those other Steves are not top players.
dont worry guys steve is fine. its fine. its all a meme.
hahahahahahaha yeah its fine 😀
it was very clear that leo doesnt know the matchup...
@@DGSnowolf And Onin does? Tell me how many Byleths are running around lol
@@DGSnowolf Y'all sound goofy af
@@DGSnowolf actually he has been playing the mu since online, its just steve with a true combo from 0-60 and you’re 1 diamond bair, smash or anvil to die
The fact that Onin won so handedly just shows that if Acola did come to smash con there's a good chance we may have had a Steve ditto in grands
10000% Acola win
Acola>>>>absolute wall>>>Onin
@@くまみこ-d2l But Onin is the only Steve main that have beaten MKLeo so it's actually a RPS 👀
Onin > MKLeo > Acola > Onin
@@LoliPeeSlurper this didn’t age well 💀
I’ve never seen Leo get bodied like this😬
Go watch frostbite 2020 Leo vs Prodigy then.
Yeah it’s been a while
It’s happened before but it’s not common
Be got out Steved not out played.
Steve bodying better players is nothing new
Perhaps the most depressing set in Smash Ultimate's history. Hope it's a one-thing though, Leo admitted himself he didn't play too well, I guess he will adapt/improve in this matchup in the future.
Depressing? This was lit af lol bye bye Leo
@@Daniel-ui3zy Right? I loved this set, great to see Leo have a real challenge to overcome (and also great to see that even the best player in the world can get caught flat-footed sometimes)
It was a sad day in smash history having a steve player beat the champ..#BanSteve
He certainly didn’t play his best. He made a lot of mistakes I don’t think he would have made normally.
But in terms of “learning the matchup”, you can learn most of the things Steve has, but learning counterplay to setups and kill confirms is just going to be a whole new challenge.
Leo stans are so melodramatic
I’m absolutely not the most familiar with matchups, but I was kind of surprised that MkLeo didn’t use Corrin for this matchup. I know that the Aegis and Joker are the other two that I am hearing others argue that he should have used, but I think that perhaps Corrin’s neutral air and Counter Surge could have helped for things like breaking blocks and answering the anvils as examples.
You know its a YT comment when someone unironically suggests a counter can swing a matchup.
lol counter is so commital
Everyone knows that Leo is so good he gets bored at times and he wants to win with different character picks. I don’t think he cared to much either. Crazy thing is Leo’s going to go on a crazy losers run and win the whole thing.
Counter does not help with steve bro LOL
@@RazorGuild unless you’re Lucario 🙂 it’s finally time for the MKLucareo we’ve all been waiting for
Congrats to Onin. I love to see the respect he showed Leo after he won-no cocky popoff. You know Onin’s heart was pounding after just 3-0’ing the GOAT this set.
Something I’ve always loved about Leo is that he carries himself gracefully and shows respect to everyone he plays, win or lose. Cool to see Onin do the same
Gay
Pretty sure he won mostly out of match up obscurity lol i give it a a month or two and steves will start dropping.
You're proud he didnt pop off after cheesing the greatest player of all time with a character that does 67% off a frame 4 up tilt?
He literally taunted on first stock take and then made an L out of the blocks for 2nd stock....idk about not being cocky
@@slur.s man I'd be cocky if I beat the #1 player too LMAO
Leo casually getting decimated 3-0
Vs broken steve😂
Still don't understand. This guy is very very young. He comes from a little place in Michigan so he didn't have opportunities to play Steve offline. He come to SSC and DESTROY everyone at his first offline competitive attempt. He even 3-gamed and 3-stocked Leo. Is he the greatest talent of all time or Steve had an unrevealed potential still had to be showed?
dude take a wild guess of why he won. not saying that he has no "skill" but his character is stupid
I think the way Steve plays in this game is exactly how Minecraft is as a game where the limit of things you can do is completely up to your imagination and ability to pull it off, and so his skill cap just goes so much further beyond any other character in the entire game
Steve is a very faithful recreation of the original character, even down to how his melee attacks come out immediately just like in the game.
This sounds familiar
Never ask a Steve player what their results were prior to Steve.
As if Byleth, Aegis, or any of the DLC play fair.
I mean yeah, Onin was like a 13 year old, your point?
@@lovelyyolk9066 pretty obvious, just read the above. Nowhere he talked about Onin here. He talked about Steve mains. Are they all 13 Y/o ? :O
@@kemyprovencher6069 in a video about Onin beating Mkleo 3-0
This is Smash 4 Bayo all over again
Imagine getting the most stylish kill anyone’s ever gotten on MKLeo and then wastinf resource-building time to TAUNT ON MKLEO. Absolute chad.
Leo: being completely fucked up with Byleth
Also Leo: yeah, I’m gonna keep playing him in game 3
leo almost never switches mid set so that’s understandable
He’s reversed 3-0d people almost more than he gets 3-0d
Honstley I think Byleth>joker for this match up
@@Lilgame10 Aegis and Corrin>Byleth
@@Beastmd I can't think of a single time (aside from here) that he's been 3-0d
The only other person that has beaten Leo this hard is Kurama
tbh even he didnt get him this hard
Or Prodigy
@@jdawg1712 prodigy = kurama. Changed his tag from prodigy to kurama
@@peace4433 Oh, I didn’t know that. Thanks.
And marss in g7 grands
Steve has the best mixups in the game. Leo didn't know what to expect half the time. Because he has SO many options and is quite a defensive character, he practically calls every neutral interaction. It's up to the pros to analyze all of Steve's options and capitalize on them. Not an easy thing to do consistently.
It's up to he developers to balance their game
@@jalalal8056 since the developers aren’t releasing balance changes anymore, it is now up to the players to develop counterplay
@@silverpotato4272 IF there is consistent counterplay to be developed and how long will it take? How long must players endure such shenanigans just to be on a somewhat level playing field and even if counterplay is found, will every character be able to do it? How niche will the counterplay be and most importantly, how effective? It's annoying at best and down right unfun no matter how you look at it.
@@jalalal8056 and also its not like steve is the only character people have to play against, there is way too many viable characters in smash and u have to know all their shenanigans otherwise u are going to losers just in brackets
@@slayer4592 steve from a purely developmental standpoint is broken. He was made during covid by sakurai and did not have enough time to be balanced properly.
Bro half of y’all ain’t watching the same game I am. Game one Leo was meeting this dude in the air and on the ground and taking center at the perfect moments but he continuously got out-hit-boxed. The few moments he wasn’t he was capitalizing like a monster but nah getting up tilted at 0-55 in 3-4 hits yea that’s just bad matchup right there clear as day huh
These are the same idiots that defended sm4sh and that game is dead.
leo was kinda just swinging and not seeming to particularly space or position around anything in particular other than byleth's range
@@unstoppableawesome dog what? You say he’s not spacing just using byleth’s range? You mean like spacing? And he did position himself well a lot during that match as I said he kept getting center stage when it matters but got out charactered hard imo
What’s crazy about this set is that Acola would have made it look worse. Better player and he might know the Byleth matchup thanks to Rizeasu, who also lives in Kansai.
Hope he sees this bro
But Rizeasu plays like every character, LMAO.
Onin is better than acol
@@Abbaschand True, but Byleth is one of the most common chars for Rizeasu along with Sephiroth.
That’s actually detable now onin officially has better wins than Acola due to acola being stuck in Japan
I clicked on this video expecting Leo to lose. Top level Steve is broken, players will be forced to admit it.
"Top lvl"
Some random kid abusing DLc busted char
5:32 Leo’s reaction is the perfect representation of fighting FP2 characters
He literally plays Pythra
@@doodoodaadoo1 Steve is better than aegis.
Statically and just using common sense
Are you being real? Give me some of what you're smoking!
@@tysontenney804I personally disagree, I know we all just saw Steve destroy byleth, however, if you can pressure Steve, he doesn’t have much to do besides mine cart
I don't understand why Leo doesn't make more tactical character swaps when he has so many characters he can play well. Byleth is a great spacing character that's good against aggressive rush down type characters... why is he running him against steve? Feel's like Mythra rush down or Joker spacing with guns would be superior here.
Edit: I swear I wrote this before watching him 3-0 the steve as mythra/pyra in top 12.
My theory is once he knows the match up is fucked (Steve) he just wants to study and see what’s going on, hence his miraculous losers runs, he’ll usually adapt after the fact or at the next event.
Because he is not playing Dabuz💀
i know a local steve main who literally struggled to nair a few months back using any other character but still got decent results. now they're getting really good placements at locals all of a sudden. i'm sorry, but steve carries really hard.
edit: also my locals are FL. the players aren't bad.
Breaking News: Good characters carry players.
@@ashketchup7354 you really don't like nuance, do you. the problem is not that "steve is good". the problem is that steve 1. encourages a playstyle which promotes not engaging with your opponent. which requires less thought. which lowers the skill floor. 2. has a skewed risk reward ratio due to tools like minecart, jab, and uptilt (and also not engaging which steve is massively rewarded for doing) which lead to anywhere from 40% to possibly even death combos. you can throw these tools out whenever you please with almost no fear of punishment. which again, means the character requires less careful consideration in his approach options which, AGAIN, lowers the skill floor. there's obviously more going on too which i could point to but i'm feeling lazy and don't feel like typing anymore. anyway, i hope you realize the nuance between a "good character" and a character that has a unique combination of tools unlike other characters which, in a lot of ways, means you don't have to think about what you're doing or weigh your risk and reward options nearly as much as other characters. which will ultimately lower the skill floor past other characters.
@@ashketchup7354 Breaking News: Steve carries players even harder. Little Timmy can now win your local because he paid $5.99
2022-2023 if Steve doesn't get nerfed, which he probably unfortunately wont, I lowkey see a future where he is at the same level as Bayo in S4 for MK in Brawl.
This character's base toolkit is already crazy and the ceiling is absolutely insane, so when he gets properly optimized I would not be surprised to see him get banned, and honestly, I'd rather that than the scene to start fading due to the existence of such a polarizing character.
Still too early, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of what's to come
I don't think so. There are characters that can handle with those situations very well. Also you need to have to a plan to confront them. It's just matter of adaptation.
He’s nowhere near Bayo or MK. Leo clearly doesn’t know the match up at all he was playing like a random kid on wifi here
have you ever seen what hero or corrin do to Steve? because if you have you wouldn't say this
@@xaos6581 i would love to see a sonic against steve, i think sonic would destory him
There are very solid counters to Steve so no. Ivysaur side b almost invalidâtes Steve entirely. Pokemon trainer is another one of the Steve counters.
8:10 "He's definitely prepared for this match!"
He woke up 40 minutes before they played, ate a crunchwrap supreme, and didn't even warm up LOL. What a beast.
Some nobody shows up fresh off a nap with no warm up and completely bodies the undisputed best player in the world and people say there's no problem with Steve lmfao
@@ZHL242 Onin won GOML what are you on about
@@Bug-vl3pb Onin was the one that woke up 40 minutes beforehand so what he said made complete sense.
@@ZHL242 Seethe
@@Bug-vl3pb idek what goml is, i never heard of onin before this tournament
Wow increíble increíble. Buen play por parte de Onin. Un talento de Steve bien logrado. Felicidades
Steve es cargado
@@julianmanjarres1998 Más cargado que que un Creeper despues de que le callera un Rayo!
Leoがスティーブに壊されるのは辛いな
バナムルキナ「あcolaステ余裕で勝てますw 」
バナム麺「MKLeoより強いですw」
いつもは負けても笑ってるのに表情辛すぎる
I’ve never seen Leo look this helpless ever. Knowing him though he’ll probably 3-0 Onin the next time they play.
No he won't Onin is playing Steve.
@@AshenDemon hes gonna build a better memory for the match up, he lacks experience. Steve has been lucky cuz hes so obscure theres not a clamor to learn the match up until now. Especially since so many steve players coming out
@@fierypickles4450 I hate how you Steve apologist pretend like lack of match up experience will lead someone to win a super major. Because it wasn't their character at all.
Before watching: "An eleven minute best-of-5 set featuring MkLeo's Byleth? Must've been one hell of an ass beating!"
After watching: *Well, **_someone_** definitely got their ass beat...*
Game 4 MkLeo : Leave Steve to me.
Game 3 MkLeo : Yeah... about that...
People gonna blame Steve but honestly Leo looks like he has literally no MU experience 💀. Like tons of other players had at least taken a game off Onin, some taking 2. You could say Steve is a problem but here I gotta put the blame on Leo. Being the best doesn’t mean being infallible 🤷♀️
Exactly
Nice comment.
Steve aerials frame data is crazy!
Side b and Dair are so strong.
Great fight
At the end there, Leo definitely held toward the blast zone out of frustration.
Thats how much this fuck is carried even Leo was done with this shit
@@fatboyz3929 it's a safe assumption looking at Leo's body language and that it was vs Steve
@@mir8651 Leo’s pretty chill, even on twitter he was just like “ah, guys I played bad and I know what I can do to improve” feels more sad than angry
Im telling everyone, Mii Gunner with stealth bomber and reflector is the counter to steve. Stealth bomber is a fast projectile that ignores walls. You can pressure steve the moment he tries to mine
Never thought of this, but damn... you got a point. Very creative thinking.
That's a good idea. The downside is wasting time picking up mii gunner.. lol
I guess Capitancito will be our saviour then.
If it were that simple steve wouldn't be doing so well rn. Just bc some characters have tools that can deal with the block walls really well don't mean that they can automatically beat steve, because block wall isn't even the main thing that makes him unfair (ridiculous damage output, framedata, and minecart do).
Have you tried sonic against steve? I think that would ruin steve players careers
Beating Leo at the start of top 32 is one thing. 3-0'ing Leo is another thing. 3 STOCKING Leo in the last game is fucking crazy.
it wasn't cause he used steve
I thought all these comments were trolling but I'm shocked Leo actually lost that badly
I honestly can’t believe that everyone is saying Steve is overpowered. It’s probably because his weakness is a character no one ever plays…. Sonic.
Sonic is too fast for Steve to be able to mine anything
Tons of people play sonic
@@rouge939 Not in the big competitive scene
I'm a Steve main, Simon destroys him too
@@EmperorPenguin1217 Nah I’ve versed many Simon’s and I’ve beaten them. It’s super easy to get them offstage
I think this is the most important set in ssbu history. This set was really the catalyst for steve becoming as dominant as he is, and him getting banned in many tournaments. Leo also started his fall off after this set
Summit is when he fell off
I don't know what's so impressive about Onin's Steve. Maybe someone else can see it?
He just minecarts or anvils out of disadvantage, prioritizes mining, and has his uptilt combos down. His gimmicks with TNT and anvil on blocks are also good.
But he's not even doing any of the tricky gameplay acola does. I think this just shows how broken minecart and anvil are and the speed at which Steve collects resources is insane.
When they introduced Steve I was certain Diamond would be something you typically get on the third stock. First of all in the game diamonds are supposed to be rare and difficult to find. Second of all they gave Steve a waft or an Arsen for all but the first stock or even just half of it. I thought making it hard to get would be utterly obvious. If they really nerfed his combos with the other materials and made diamond hard to get, damage output could be his huge weakness, basically making the running away and mining thing more tight and demanding. His opponent would be on a race to beat him before diamond comes but they actually have a chance of doing so.
Mkleo not prapared for the match-up: get destroyed
Mkleo prepared for the match-up: get steve destroyed
Man, I was so sure that Onin was going to win, great job to Leo for clutching it out in the end!
bro commented before he watched the vid
@@nero7862 i watched the stream dw, still was amazing seeing leo win in the end!
@@nero7862 *woosh
yeah leo was amazing! we found the answer to steve, no more ban needed
see guys, leo has the answers, steve is no more
The easiest way to beat Mkleo: break the smash ultimate mechanic.
Really Glutony did pretty good with him, unless you count waft as breaking the smash mechanic.
@@Dellennickolis95 he's referring to the situation when the player is getting carried. gluto is a specialist, not a main hopper to the gimmicky way
@@Dellennickolis95 Glutonny beat Mkleo by the harder way: outplaying him.
Steve definitely forces experienced players to use completely different strategies than usual.
My advice to everyone is to stay away from smash twitter for the next few weeks because this is all people will talk about
steve fans like seeing their character wins, but not considering how this character destroying smash scene with the most "hype" match ever
They do see how un hype Steve is just that they don't care
Better than Bayonetta...
Honestly I have never seen Steve say Steve is hype. They know better than that
@@imissmytoasteroven9551 embracing smash 4's fate into ultimate is a good idea apparently
Steve has ways to be countered, use sonic or someone to fast for him to get materials, steve isnt fast enough to outrun sonic
Onin played amazing. Game 1 was close, and game 3 he read Leo like a book. Hope to see more of him!
not really tbh, i mean the character is "broken"
@@slur.s I can say the same thing for pyra/mythra and joker (before nerfs), who are "broken" characters. Steve definitely has a plenty of tools in his arsenal that can be considered "broken", but we'll see how the meta develops and how the top players adapt.
Oh hey, Onin won game one with one stock, game two with two stocks and game three with three stocks.
Okay so what are steve’s best and worst stages? I always see people taking him to ps2 and kalos where he gets nothing but stone and iron, would it not be better to take him to like smashville or town to make him have worse resources?
Steve main here. I think Smashville is solid for restricting his space, and Lylat forces him to mine slower and waste more iron. In my opinion Wily Castle should be legalized
in a shonen when you want to show how powerful a character is, you show how easily destroys the previous top threat
poor Leo
This is the start of Leo’s training arc
@@erniekai4945 hope so! 😄
Just remember: Izaw thought steve was one of the worst characters in the game 💀
That’s his opinion and Leo played the mu horribly, also heard that this mu sucks for byleth, plus Leo looked a bit off, I assume he was working on something new during the tournament.
7:19 oh wow there's actually nothing you can do once you commit to shield. Cannot release the shield after the anvil before bair and leo had a full shield too
That's what you call Sakurai not caring about the balance of the game.
He could've just... not use shield and wait until the Minecart fell. He's playing Byleth of all characters lol
The best part of this is all the top players like tweek, light, and marss are fuming that Steve could just beat Leo so easily through a straight matchup check
THESE IDIOTS REALLY THINK IT'S A MU CHECK. NO, IT'S STEVE BEING BROKEN WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DUMB IT'S LIKE I'M TALKING TO A BUNCH OF 5-YEAR-OLDS....
Maybe I'm getting too worked up but ya'll act like these people aren't carried.
Kinda sad lol
Some shitter whose never won anything significant before steve came out and only plays elite smash to practice manages to consistently shit on elite veterans and you think there's an explanation besides a broken character?
People talk about Steve being broken, but the obvious elephant in the room I hear nobody talk about... why should characters be allowed to rack 50%+ damage from any combo? When this game was designed, it was designed with the intention of set damage per hit, but suddenly a tilt now deals 50% damage(if the player knows how to perform certain combos). Banning Steve won't solve the problem, he's a symptom of the problem. We either need seasonal patching(they stopped before there was ample enough time to assess the dlc characters) or we need to add an entirely new game mechanic that counters your opponent's move if you predict your opponent's next 2 moves(even if you're trapped in a combo).
This match honestly annoyed the hell out of me because Leo got 3-0d and 3 stocked 3rd game this easily. You got other top players trying their hardest to beat Leo and then you got Onin who casually 3-0s him. Good stuff to Onin but Steve's a menace lmao
It’s also because Leo has a lot of experience against basically every character in the game except for Steve. I doubt something like this will happen again once Leo learns the matchup
onins just a chad vs virgin leo
@1:44 did steve's ass just parry byleth?
Yes
"how come leo didnt 3-0 jv4 onin after only fighting like 2 steves in his entire career"
i cant even believe im saying this but this was literally the hugest matchup check ever. if this is your main reason for wanting steve banned you actually eat crayons
My thoughts exactly, even leo admitted that he doesn't know this matchup too well (at least not with Byleth) and is his first time going against Onin
It's not the main reason I want Steve banned. I want him banned because he's too broken, boring to watch, can 0-to-death you for wanting to play the game, and has so much stupid crap that All these random nobodies picked him up and are doing well. This set just adds support to my argument but it was never my foundation.
@@AshenDemon "He's too broken, ban him", ok, so let's also ban Pikachu who wrecks 90% of the roster and pretty much just back airs, or Palu who can deal 70% of a nair loop and destroys slow or short range characters, or Min Min who can edgeguard in the middle of the stage.
Look, you're free to hate Steve, I don't blame you, but even despite these sets, Onin is still a great player who (from what I've heard) was really good even before Steve, and no character should be banned (not even Steve) besides, how are we going to ban Steve when we never banned Bayo or MK? (Who were 1000 times better)
@@santiagoherrera1853 We should have banned bayo but this community just likes to have broken characters making the game toxic.
@@santiagoherrera1853 Onin is a great player with Steve...but for some reason, I can't remember seeing him in any tournaments before Steve. Huh, must be a memory problem.
People trolling around with the "learn the matchup" slogan have no idea how irrelevant it is when it comes to Leo losing this match
I might be wrong but I don’t think Leo has faced any top Steve’s, so he quite literally needs to learn the matchup
Leo has litterally never faced a top level steve up till now. It ain't trolling it is how the Steve players are winning.
@@myoblivion420 he played ddog at collison
@@rez3821 ddog is an average steve player. Doesn't do nearly enough of the things that Onin or Acola does. Most of the time when he gets his opponent off stage he doesn't do any ledgetraps, edgeguarding or use blocks effectively.
Leo played this incorrectly in my opinion. I have seen a top level Japanese Byleth (cannot find the vod, it’s one of the 8 hour long Japanese streams) nearly beat Acola. The difference was the Byleth was spacing Byleth nair in ways Steve has a hard time punishing. Here it felt like Leo was throwing out nair without spacing well or having a plan for how to follow up. Leo also got hit by obvious minecarts, anvils, and TNT gimmicks that players more experienced in the matchup would know how to avoid. Leo’s fundamentals are always godlike, but in this instance you have to know the Steve matchup. That’s what I think at least.
Found a vod (not the same one)
th-cam.com/video/VEMDFCyaHgo/w-d-xo.html
Exactly, I learned to dodge and predict minecarts from a mile away. Most Steve players are predicable.
props to Super Girl Kels on commentary for being unbiased and hyped for anything that happened on this set
I’m generally surprised that MKleo didn’t practice his matches against Steve considering the fact that Steve is a popular pick now and days and most even considered him a high tier character. Hopefully other top tier players learn how to deal with Steve.
Leo was practicing the match up against a top Steve before this set. Also Steve is universally agreed to be at worst top 10 at this point. Most top players will agree he is top 3.
Remember when Leo said “learn the match up”
A 11 minutes set, what a destruction game for Le... Wait, what?!
MKLeo's wake up call for Ludwig's invitational.
steve has to be the most interesting character to watch at a high level
Leo looked off of his game this tournament I hope he can shake it off and come back stronger next tourney.
That said, Onin was an absolute menace! Unbelievable performance throughout the whole tourney, csn't wait to see more!
あこーら行かなくて良かったな
こんなブーイングの中で高校生の日本人一人は危なすぎる
今も若干病み気味なのに行ってたら本当にどうなるかわからん
steve out here carrying players to top level. Love this meta
this is onin’s second major win bruh
@@frijolespepepapa9464 and who did he win the first major with bruh
@@ZHL242 who cares
@@frijolespepepapa9464 you obvioulsy do to answer back lmao !
@@kemyprovencher6069 im saying who cares what character when he has won 2 majors already
When I watched MkLeo face off against Acola it seemed like whenever he got killed when his opponent was high damage percentage, he always found a way to kill them without taking any hits to sort of set it back to square one. Very interesting.
正直に言うけどleoよりoninの方がニュートラルで勝ってるように感じる
スティーブのキャラパワー以前にoninの人のうまさにびっくりしたしleoがこんなプレイするとは思わんかった
The first minute the commentators are talking about how we finally get to see Leo handle Steve LMAO
Smash developers need to start making DLC characters that fit in with the cast instead of “we’ll make them OP AF so people buy the DLC then tune them to a normal level in the next game.” They got a good balance probably 50% of the time with Ultimate’s DLC.
I don’t think they meant to make Steve OP, especially not just to sell more DLC. They were just confused when they made him. He’s such a complicated character that half the things that make him so good just weren’t noticed during development
@@KevSB07 Oh yes they did, and if they didn't mean to make Steve op they meant to make Kazuya op.
@@AshenDemon [edit]: didn’t mean to write so much: *tl;dr*: Sakurai basically admitted himself for both Steve and Kazuya that he didn’t know how to balance them, leading to what he have today.
yeah no. Unless Sakurai completely lies to us in his character presentations, my understanding of Steve’s and Kazuya’s balancing issues is more likely true. In both Steve’s initial trailer and in Kazuya’s presentation, Sakurai made a comment explaining how uncertain he was about the character’s place in the game’s meta. For Kazuya, he mentioned that the original version of Kazuya was incredibly weak, likely because of his poor speed, frame data, and zonebreaking power. He said that’s when he started to add intangibility frames and armor onto his moves. Not just to make him broken.
Steve was a much more radical case. Sakurai said that it was extremely difficult to design Steve in such a way that was both accurate to Minecraft and fit in smash. So he wasn’t sure in the end whether or not Steve should be nerfed or buffed. Which should have meant that the game get a few more months of patches so he can fix behavior that wasn’t intentional, but alas. Sakurai mentioned he was worried that Steve’s limited attack range, garbage movement stats, and reliance on mining for resources would make him weak against the other fighters, which is probably why he was fine with giving Steve his insane frame data.
Not saying the decisions the developers made were good, just saying I don’t think the end result was their intention
@@KevSB07 I don't think you can trust Sakurai with a straight face on this issue. There is a clear pattern of making DLC characters OP that is a deliberate choice. I get it that this is the revenue stream for people once they have bought the game but it is annoying that they can't balance them more like non-DLC new characters like Simon/Richter, Incineror, Ken, Ridley, etc. Compare Smash4 Bayo & Cloud (meta destroying monsters) with Ultimate Bayo & Cloud (strong characters in the right hands but much more in line with other characters). Just frustrating to see DLC characters that invalidate so much. Look at the jank hit boxes and frame data you get with the majority of the Ultimate DLC characters. Look at even the less consequential stuff like how their counters function versus the counters of all non-DLC characters. If these DLC characters return for the next smash game, it is very easy to see how much down tuning will take place for Aegis, Steve, Kazuya, Min-Min, etc. to bring them in line with the base game characters. They know how to do this as they prove with Ridley, etc. but they choose not to do so. That can only be deliberate.
Onin playing godlike along with Leos Byleth being super unfamiliar with steve made this inevitable.
Steve is the biggest “either you know the mu or you get fucked up” character in a while, its not necessarily an easy to win with character or a play to win character either. You just NEED to know how to abuse Steve’s poor mobility. If he used aegis this probably would have gone much different.
Feels like joker would be the answer here, big brother counter to attempt to break combos and reflect mine cart, guns for extra random damage and a way to force an approach, and movement cuz diamond attacks are fast but Steve is kinda slow. Maybe I’m wrong but
Please tell me how you are simultaneously he him they and them
You can go by both pronoun sets just like how some people use any pronouns
@@chloedagal sure you can, just don’t expect people to care.
@@tasium5296 on god
Why are MKLeo fans so mad?! Finally, he has a huge obstacle to overcome!
a cheesy obstacle to overcome.
@@freezeframeplease Dear lord yall cry about everything.... Yall cry more than the players do AND THEIR THE ONES PLAYING AND NOT YALL 😂😂😂😂
@@ekko6640 nice kiddo, now go use parent funded internet access to do other things
There is a difference betnween and "Obstacle" and someone getting carried by a charcter that clealy plays another game that isnt smash
Everyone saying Steve is broken takes away from the amazing setups Onin used.
3:55 the way Onin force habit MKLeo to use the Up B during the pressure, all other top players would just have gotten Up B, but this dude had MKLeo read.
Bruh. It's a simple mix-up lol Steve players will throw it in if they see you shielding and not rolling out. Especially if you have a good oos option like Byleth does.
@@mir8651 simple as it may be, most top players just consistently get "Up B'd" by Leo in this scenario, it's not hard to see after watching so many matches, that his habit allowed that "simple mix up" to work. If you are rolling with the Steve negativity, it's fine, en those seconds I didn't see Steve and Byleth, I saw Onin force habiting MKLeo. He will get it next for sure, don't worry.
@@ChaosNew Most characters are probably easier to up b there.
@@mir8651 none can be up B if they remain shielded, especially when they have knowledge of what the player topically does when cornered.
@@ChaosNew Some up b moves can since they move the character far enough away to avoid being punished even when they shield.
POV: You are the best Smash Ultimate player in the world, but then Onin says "It’s finally me and you, and you and me, just us, and your friend Steve!"
I was just scrolling through the comments, looking for timstamps for clips, to make exactly this joke as a video 😆
th-cam.com/video/KUftvXIVYSk/w-d-xo.html
Im done, it isn't great, but I am satisfied...
Minecraft has no official Esport scene....this makes up for it.
これはLeoのスティーブ対策不足が大きいだろう
The whole concept of "running away, hiding behind walls, and safely mining resources" goes against Super Smash Bros. It would have been more fun if Steve's opponent dropped materials when hit, similar to Coin Battle in Melee. Slowing down his mining speed is another suggestion. Honestly though, it feels like Steve was forced into this game and the developers dug themselves into a hole. It's hard to make a cool character when his entire design revolves around passively collecting blocks and building defensive walls. He would need a complete rework for people to not hate him.
So what y’all think? After seeing the whole tournament, should they ban Steve?
No
mkleo didnt go to twitter to say "i hate steve" just remember that yall.. it takes very technical skill to do this stuff with steve as opposed to min min gameplay
Ngl this is kinda default Steve noting technical
@@playharderscrub i dont know what ur definition of "technical" is then
@@tristanconn11 I play Steve and onin is not a technical Steve, at least to me. He could get a lot more out of his up tilt combos but it’s good to keep it simple and consistent. Still amazing player
@@playharderscrub okay i see ur point.. i was more so talking about steve in general.. like "ban steve" is so dumb to me because it takes away from the actual skill of steve mains because it is definitely not a free win going steve
@@playharderscrub like compared to minmin, steve is much easier to fight against imo and steve has to change his play style according to the character he is fighting as opposed to minmin but i still dont think minmin should be banned either.. like brawl meta knight wasnt even banned at most tourneys and he was by far without a question the best character in the game because he can avoid the tripping mechanic by flying around with a hitbox.. steve does have counter play its just hard to figure out how to fight him