Compact “Pouch Cell” Battery Better? Let's Find Out!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2022
- Batteries Tested: DeWALT PowerStack, DeWALT 2.0 AH, DeWALT 5.0 AH. Battery performance compared using an impact driver, hammer drill, reciprocating saw, and air blower. Cold temperature performance is tested after batteries are chilled to below freezing temperature for over 12 hours. Batteries also tested for amp hour capacity. Finally, the PowerStack battery is dismantled to look at the build construction. My goal is to always provide accurate and honest test results by avoiding outside pressure from manufacturers. To do this, I always buy all of the products that I test along with the test equipment and supplies used for the testing. So, thank you very much for helping me achieve this goal by your support of the channel.
➡ Thank you very much for supporting the channel: / projectfarm
➡ An easy way to find past videos along with products tested: bit.ly/2FCrBpk A big thanks to Jim for putting this together.
➡ Merch: project-farm.com/
➡ Click here if you'd like to subscribe: / @projectfarm
➡ As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
➡ Products Tested In This Video (in no particular order):
DeWalt Powerstack: amzn.to/3q7Df0t
DeWalt 2.0 MAX (DCB 203): amzn.to/3qXI3Vn
DeWalt 5.0 DCB 205: amzn.to/33fu58Y
Torque Adapter Used in Testing: amzn.to/3f4hsjI
Videography Equipment:
Sony DSC-RX10 III Cyber-shot Digital Still Camera: amzn.to/2YdXvPw
Canon 70D Camera: amzn.to/31b5Gy0
Azden Microphone: amzn.to/34d3DLE
Go Pro Bundle: amzn.to/3Ca0ZVN
This video is only for entertainment purposes. If you rely on the information portrayed in this video, you assume the responsibility for the results. Project Farm LLC - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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Not only are you super knowledgeable when it comes to tools, you're also quite well versed in statistics. It's clear that you put a staggering amount of work into every aspect of your videos. Very impressive!!
Thanks!
@@ProjectFarm Me 2!
@@ProjectFarm you forgot to weighed the batteries packs, thanks for the video uploads you are the best on TH-cam 👍👍👍
@@MrSeth166 1:54
If you mounted the blower facing forward on a car, and drove 60 mph, would the air in front of the running blower be still?
At the current pricing, I'd rather have 2 or 3 of the regular 2AH batteries. If one fails, you still have a back-up. Also, I write the date I purchased the batteries on them, and assign them a number. That way if I have a battery that keeps coming up short or develops an issue, I know which one it is. It's too easy to lose track of batteries when you have 5 or 6 and are out in the field with a project.
👍🏼 Yes, that is similar to what I do! Got to know which are getting wimpy or might be a warranty claim! 😎✌🏼
I can see certain situations where the PS battery would be nice to have (weight). But I wouldn't go crazy with a bunch of them.
Time will tell their reliability also. Gas buildup in a pouch pack kills the vacuum applied to it that keeps all the sandwiched materials together and you end up with a poor performer. Cylindrical cells are much more durable with regards to abuse imo.
Thanks for the feedback. Good tip.
@@volvo09 Cold weather output and weight seem like key benefits. If they make a larger version of the powerstacks to match up with the 5ah, that would likely be a sweet spot of weight/performance.
I'm actually more interested in the price comparison between the PowerStack 2Ah and the regular 5Ah battery. If the 5 Ah battery is priced the same or less than the PowerStack, then the 5Ah is a way better deal. You get the same or better performance as the PowerStack, but more than double the capacity. The only thing you give up is size and weight, and I'm not sure it's enough of a difference to warrant the capacity loss when compared to the PowerStack.
I just love this guy. Sometimes, I even watch a review on something just to hear an honest, positive voice lol
Thanks so much!
@ProjectFarm Credit where credit is due, brother. The crazier and darker this world gets, the more I appreciate those like you than bring in some much needed light.
Thanks for yet another great video. We are privileged to have a channel that gives us this type of content. How many times do DIY’ers & Contractors say, “some one should test to see how true these claims are” & PF comes along and actually does it. One of my favorite YT channels because of the honesty and unbiased results of these products. Thanks PF! As usual awesome video. 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks and you are welcome!
I would have had a hard time destroying a $120 battery! Thank you for doing it for us!
You are welcome!
@@ProjectFarm Who expected Todd to say "my pleasure" instead of "you're welcome"? 😁
If you made the money he does for doing so...it would be easy.
Since he probably made over $1,200 off this, it's an easy trade off. I wouldn't be surprised if Dewalt gave him the batteries though I'm sure he'd never admit to that. Doesn't really matter much, he comes out ahead.
I’ve been watching other reviews on the new battery but eagerly awaiting PF’s testing and review. The go-to definitive source for information. Nobody comes close to Project Farm.
Thanks!
Torque Test Channel
Just buy Milwaukee and never worry.
Battery Mooch but I don't think hes done pouch cells too much.
I have to commend you, ever since you started out you were proactive and replied to every comment. You still do that to this day, and it an amazing connection to your viewers
Thanks!
I just saw on DeWalt's website that the new 5 AH power stack battery has been released. I'd love to see a revisit to this test to see how it holds up. As always you do an amazing job!
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
you have to sell a kidney to afford them lol
@@maddawgzzzzlowes has a deal 326 for 2 5ah ps with free tool, returned the tool for 126
In my personal experience these pouch cells very frequently start bulging after a few years and become very scary to have around, something I haven't seen with 18650s
Thanks for sharing.
that's why tesla car do not use pouch but the 18650. GM went pouch and excuse me! "your cars on fire"
Same thing for me.
I use these lipo cells in my drones and absolutely scary. Never charge them indoors, I had one start to bulge on my garage floor. I stopped charging it, but it carried on swelling and 10 minutes after I stopped the charge it burst into flames.
@@thra5herxb12s DeWalt is using Li-ion, not Lipo.
The drain tests were the most revealing about this "better" battery. If I'm pulling out the cordless I want it to last as long as possible between charges - if the upfront power is higher but immediately drops off it's not really a win. Excellent video as always.
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
Batteries can give you overall capacity and they can be built to deliver the capacity at faster rates. Which means you're trading power (torque) for amount of time. They can make a battery that lasts you an hour straight but if the motor stalls driving in a basic wood screw every quarter second because they only allow a trickle out for that long lasting battery, of what use is it?
It's all a balancing act. When you rebuild your batteries, if you're so inclined, you can choose cells with different ratings. I've made high capacity batteries with low drain specifically for a portable fan because fans are low torque applications and i do want them to last long between charges as they are continuous use. And while I still left it some oomph it'll not be my go to for driving bits and cutting unless I need it. I've built high capacity batteries with high drain for the power tools that need the torque.
Pick and choose the application.
My 5AH DeWalt batteries cost the same as these powerstack batteries but produce more consistent torque for a much, much longer period of time. Where exactly do these batteries excel vs the 5AH? Slightly higher torque for about 20 seconds? The only consideration for preferring one of these new batteries comes down to weight and space saving neither of which I care about. The tech is certainly an improvement due to the better energy density but the significantly lower capacity and the high price point is not worth it compared to what I already own.
Weight and size are a huge deal for some applications. Having the same “oomph” from a tiny battery is a big win if you’re working over head or out reached in front of you.
@@etherealrose2139 Not only that, but the PowerStack isn't a 2AH battery, but a 1.7AH. So even without considering what you said, it's normal that it last less time.
Great job. Good use of controls in each test. Clear illustrative performance graphs to convey information. You sure know what you're doing.
Thank you very much!
It's a cool battery, but until the price comes way down, no reason I would buy them over the 5.0Ah batteries I regularly get free with tool deals. Great testing!
100%.
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
Yeah and it the 5AH is too big for you, just buy the new-ish 4AH that is thinner than the old 4AH.
I have worked on making drone batteries and we experimented with both pouch cells and 21700 cells. We definitely found that the pouch cells were lighter and held a bit more power but we ended up changing to 21700s as the pouch cells were much more delicate and we had several suffer thermal runaway after relatively minor crashes. If it is a really hot day and you are using the batteries hard you had better not drop them, the thermal sensors on board just stop the drill from working if they get hot, it won't stop thermal runaway. That is why Tesla won't use them either but some other car brands still do.
This Needs To Be Publicly Known!! _ Thank You!
Yep. I want to call those things *ly-poo* due to their more unpleasant tendencies.
Better to use a *lot* of the canned cells if one can endure their bulk/weight, those or the lithium iron phosphate flavor.
These pouch cells are NOT lithum polymer cells like in rc cars.
@@David.....: Yes they are. Their full name is Lithium-Ion Polymer, or LiPo for short. I have never heard them called pouch cells but that certainly describes their appearance. Li-Ion cells are always cylindrical.
Like you, anyone with experience with radio control models is well aware of the downsides and volatility of pouch cells which is why I was shocked when finding out dewalt is now using them.
There's a reason tool manufacturers use cylindrical cells, yes there's gruntier options available but cylindrical cells are the most robust and I'll be honest, I'm a heavy equipment mechanic, my tools get a VERY hard life, borderline abused. It's just the nature of the beast.
When I’m thinking of getting a new tool or anything even related, I always check your Chanel first to look for testing lol. Thanks! Your the best channel on TH-cam!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Project Farm, your work, research and diligence are huge inspirations.
Thanks!
Fastest notification ever! Love your battery pack testing videos. :-)
Thank you very much!! By the way, enjoyed your video today!!
Great video, as anticipated. :-) The price of the lipo "pouch cell" battery is outrageous, they also have a tendency to puff up when cycled under heavy load.
"Fastest notification ever!" "We're gonna test that" 😉
@@electronicsNmore why don't you watch Taofledermaus anymore? You used to comment there all the time as well. Did Jeff piss you off or something?
VIDEO IDEA: how about testing different 3/8" rope for strength abrasion, UV resistance, etc ? I came across this blue "marine rope" on spool in home depot that seemed to be of far better quality than the precut sections. I'm curious to see how it would compare to the braided nylon versus rated rope vs climbing rope.
Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm if you do a rope test, I’d be insanely curious to see how well a rope that has been wormed, parceled, and served compares to a regular rope
Great idea
There is a channel that does rope tests already, he has the proper testing equipment and stuff, channel called HowNot2
@@piciu256thanks for the link but I meant comparing like hardware store rope (rated for xyz break strength) and maybe for giggles throw in some name brand static climbing rope and just see how it compares..
Interested in how different ropes fair for general household use. Clothesline cord is another good one to include as well.
This channel NEVER disappoints. It's as if you read my mind and answered the question that I was about to ask.
Thanks so much!
I always go to your videos for my tool purchases thanks for your hard work!!!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I always appreciate PF's hard work in providing proof and keeping these manufacturers accountable for their product claims.
No one else is out their doing what he does in such a clear unbiased manner, and for that we are eternally grateful!
Thanks!
Exactly! Well said.
Great job as always. If I could offer one suggestion, I would consider doing the lag bolt tests through a lamination of MDF. It would be a little more expensive but should yield more consistent results compared to the variables that exist in natural wood, knots etc. Keep up the good work. We really appreciate it.
Thanks, will do! Thanks for the constructive feedback.
@@ProjectFarm OSB would also work well if the MDF decides it would rather do the splits
I love how project farm is so meticulous about reading, responding, and taking feedback. Such a cool guy!
That is the mark of someone that is actually interested in their contribution and is actively trying to improve their content through feedback from viewers vs. Someone that posts videos solely for clickbate induced views. Mr. P Farm is the real deal and has my absolute respect. This is content you cannot find anywhere else. Sadly enough it's overshadowed by one hit wonder drama this, you'll never guess what happened next! B.S. This platform started as a collection of entertaining videos, evolved into its current mess of an absolute train wreck of terrible content, but if you sift through the nonsense long enough, there are some absolutely brilliant people in there. This channel reserves high marks for its content, commitment and viewer recognition. I have absolutely no need for an electric chain saw but you can bet I watched every minute of that episode. That, my friends, is quality content.
That’s another excellent point. My comment was concerning the angle he drives the bolts isn’t always 90 degrees, he introduces another variable by not driving them straight.
Great work as always. One suggestion for displaying time dependent charts. Set the Y axis minimum to zero or close to it. This provides broader context to the performance and reduces what can seem like large differences in performance when looking at a narrow window.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
i second this i was thinking this exact thought when I saw the first graph
I wasn’t thinking that at all. Not even close. Probably had ramen or something on my mind.
Yes, I had the same suggestion.
I disagree. The purpose of the chart is to compare between the different batteries. It's not a leaf blower review, the exact numbers are not important. What's important are the differences between the numbers. If you were to set the Y axis to zero, then all the batteries would look nearly identical, and it would be difficult to tease out any difference at all. Plus, you'd be wasting 3/4 of the screen on pointless blank space. This is especially the case when you have the values of each point labeled in bold font, since it's clear that the Y axis has been changed to emphasize the differences.
Great job! Even though I do not have any tools that use battery packs like these, I found the testing very interesting. Thanks for all you do to help us out!
Thanks and you are welcome!
One thing I appreciate about this channel is how much you engage with the community, even on old videos. That along with the work dedication you have shows how much effort you put into this channel. Even though tool videos aren’t my favorite subject, because of how involved you are in your work this channel is my favorite. Thank you for all you do! It also contributed greatly to my opinion to learn that you donate the tools you don’t use after making the videos. Keep it up!
I hold him and ChrisFix in very high regard compared to all the TH-cam people I follow.
ye i tried asking him questions and he only replied basically thanks for the feedback bye
Thanks, will do!
These are my favorite vids because I love and I have a dewalt so to so how different tools perform with different battery's was so informative and entertaining! Appreciate ya man!
Thanks!
Cool, another awesome Project Farm video! Todd I have a couple suggestions for testing: jigsaw blades and "quiet" air compressors. I purchased a California Air Tools quiet air compressor from Amazon a few years back. This thing is very quiet and only has a 1 gallon tank. It works great. Thank you for the video👍😁
Thank you for the video ideas! Added to my list of projects to look into testing
_I purchased a _*_California Air Tools_*_ quiet air compressor from Amazon a few years back. This thing is very quiet and only has a 1 gallon tank. It works great_
That's been on my shopping list for two years 😁 waiting for my current unit to die first..
+1 for quiet air compressors
@@ProjectFarm How long is that list by now? I'm sure it's over 100 with all the input from your viewers!
Thank you for making these videos, I've been a long time fan.
Can you do a test on the best electrical outlet? I know some are better built than others.
This is your thing man! I was waiting for you to get your hands on this one!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for all of your videos. I always check if you've made a video before I make a purchase. With the cold weather moving in it would be awesome to see some space heater tests. My garage is getting chilly.
You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
Your work is one of my favorite on TH-cam. Thank you for what you do, Sir.
Wow, thank you!
You have answered all our questions once again. Thanks for all you do and getting us the information everyone is looking for. Happy New Year.
Never any "Santa Clause" reviews on this channel. Only the truth. Happy New Year and Thank you!
This was a nice surprise - and welcome information. Thanks !
You are welcome!
killed it! I watch a lot of your videos and I've never seen one that I didn't like, .... some are a little long winded but this one was particularly well done with a lot of very detail, accurate and specific information including disassembling the battery packs.... A lot of work. Great job!
Thanks and you are welcome!
If the stacked pouch configuration catches on the price will drop naturally. I'm curious about heat management, especially in anything larger than the 2AH equivalent seen here.
Adding the 5AH in to this test was awesome, proved a very simple reality: There's no replacement for displacement.
Thanks for the feedback.
It’s like picking between a larger naturally aspirated engine or a smaller turbocharged one haha.
Smaller turbo charger one will fail 1st
@@VaporRipper say you know nothing about internal combustion engines without saying it.
@@SnowAroTV Turbocharged engines are notorious for blowing out their turbos. It's the prime fail point of any turbo charged engines, and the reason you don't find them very much on airplanes anymore. I say this an FAA licensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic, so I know a thing or two about internal combustion engines. And a larger NA engine will last a hell of a lot longer than a smaller turbo charged engine. All you have to do is go down the local track and watch turbo-boosted Civics blow up left and right to know that much.
@@ImpendingJoker Adding-
If noting else, the added complexity of a turbo means more points of failure. And the inherent drawbacks of turbos (turbo lag), which can be addressed... by adding more points of failure.
The standard Dewalt batteries can be rebuilt. Is the same available for the Powerstack?
@@SnowAroTV So what were you saying again???🙄
I think everyone has covered most of the comments. I just want to say how I really enjoy your videos and how to take the time to address comments. Happy New Year.
Thanks so much! Happy New Year!
Excellent video as always. I sure would like to see the Farmbago again in some sort of evaluation.
Thanks again for the great content.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
Pouch cells are a good idea for density, it will be cool to see more of them in the future, especially if DeWalt starts to manufacture them cutting out the 18650 suppliers which would lower cost. At the current cost there's no point, just get the 5AH.
Thanks for the feedback.
If you do a lot of work overhead, or with a tool that already weighs a lot, the new powerstack might be a back and arm saver. They do have an advantage in weight over capacity for some applications.
@@nelsonbrum8496 In that case, just get a Dewalt CP-battery based on 21700-cells. Not as light, but more capacity and gives decent balance on most tools
A while back there was a 2 pack for 180 so a bit better price per pack. Still a bit pricey though
Indeed, the price will have to come down, and it will. Great comment! 👍✌🏻
Hey Todd, excellent video as always! It's super impressive that you can always put out quality content while simultaneously working on long-term testing for other videos. There seems to be a lot of "TH-camr burn-out" going around, so I hope you know that you don't have to keep upping the ante in order to maintain the channel. We'll enjoy whatever and whenever you make videos! Thanks for all your hard work!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I've been binge watching your videos lately, great content! I'd really like to see miter saws and circular saws at some point. It'd get expensive, but some kind of tool cart from husky, Milwaukee, etc. would be interesting too....all of the casters and drawer slides seem to vary wildly in quality.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes!!!!!! miter saws and circular saws!!!!!!!!
Please keep doing these videos. they are great and very informative. you do such an amazing job.
Thank you! Will do!
Once again, you hit it out of the park. Love your content. Keep up the great work. It is appreciated!
Thank you very much!
Thanks for taking all that time to show that it’s just a compact version of the 5 but without the runtime. As further packs get out on the market, a pack the size of a 5 will definitely be an improvement for runtime. So for anyone on the market for these, definitely worth it with a $149 kit with a free bare tool deal when you want something light & compact and don’t really care for the runtime as much.
Thank you!
Thank you, some of that gets confusing. I appreciate all the cool information and the work you do
Thanks!
One of my favorite people to watch. Very informative and relevant!
Thanks!
Thanks for doing this as I am excited about these new cells!
You're welcome! Hope DeWalt can increase the amp hour capacity. I believe FLEX is coming out with a similar technology soon.
RC vehicles have been on the pouch style lithium batteries for ~15 years. You have a lot higher discharge/ amp rate than cell style packs. That’s why you see an increase in performance. But they’re somewhat venerable batteries to puncture and that’s probably why we haven’t seen them in power tools before now.
Thanks for the feedback.
Us RC airplane guys were using the LiPo "pouch" batteries 5+ years before that. I remember when they were crazy expensive because the only cells were made in USA & considered "experimental" & dangerous. Once production shifted to China the prices went way down but, so did quality.
same with phones
yeah, watching Todd just manhandling those bare cells made my heart stop for a few seconds. I was dreading some kind of fire happening 😬. Todd, please leave the battery cells alone if you have to tear down one of these things again for your own safety. Thank you!
Yeah there have been several people who have lost their homes due to lipo battery fires when charging unattended batteries,I store mine in metal ammo cans.I'm not sure bringing this new technology to tool batteries is a good idea?
Yet another great comparison! Thank you for your continued info-tainmemt!
You are welcome!
I've watched project farm for years! I've always love to just come to the channel just to see what's the best product. I should have said this years ago. Maybe you should do a Q&A video and let fans send things to a PO box. Kinda off topic but, it would be dope to send you some stuff
Thanks for being a long time viewer. Thanks for the suggestion for a Q & A video.
I wonder how well the powerstack will hold up after 5+years of regular use? Considering how many pouch cells I've seen puff up and fail, my guess is not nearly as long as 18650s...
Seriously overpriced and definitely NOT a battery I'd ever buy.
DeWalt says double the charge cycles, but lithium ion polymer cells have proven to be a lot less reliable in other applications
@@muddybadgers5205 They're less reliable if they're used in extreme power drain devices, like car jump starters (which draw peaks of 300-500 amps, no li ion cell will take that easily). Using liion for that aplication will either end up with a huge stack of parallel cells (so it will get enough current to withstand it), or you'll end up with a product that wont last long.
LiPo batteries will last as long as 18650, which is around 2-3 years, then there will be quite a lot of degradation (which you may not notice, since its gradual). They're basically the same chemistry (li-ion), the only difference is that 18650s are better at heat dissipation and are less sensitive to mechanical damage.
@@Bramble20322 I know people put them in special boxes to contain a fire when they charge them for RC cars
There's a reason other tools don't use them. Plus, a safe version that holds up well, would cost far more money.
Pouch cells will swell a bit under heavy load as well, I hope they left some room in there for them to grow. Fall damage could be a much bigger issue with these as well, pretty easy to internally short them due to crushing/denting.
I was impressed that the lighter one did as well as it did, but I can buy two of the heaver for the price of the double stack. I'll have to think on that one. Thanks for the great testing and the thought that went into each test. Keep the goodness coming. Be happy, safe and stay healthy! 😷⚒
Thanks, will do!
The new batteries seem great but Dewalt is off their rocker with the price. They announced it as "slightly more expensive" due to the "new technology" then priced it more than double. Its not new technology, these are the same packs that every cell phone has. They just put 5 together in a plastic case. Until the price goes down its a gimic imo
@@user-qr8zb4cd9j These batteries are not overpriced if you look at their extended usage compared to the older 2AH. The charge cycles are at least 3x that of the older style. You pay more up front but these are supposed to last significantly longer.
@@Junglebrute key words: supposed to
@@barnett25 I would agree. The 5AH obviously has a much longer run life per charge and for the construction application 5AH is much better than 1.7AH once they start releasing larger capacity power stacks then it would be worth considering over traditional battery packs.
Great video as always! Possible future idea for a video. I'm not quiet sure how you would do this but possibly torture testing OEM vs aftermarket car parts.
Glad I watched this review. Thanks for continuing to put out top quality and honest videos man.
Thanks and you are welcome!
It would be awesome to see more weather/temperature testing with different brands and sizes/types of batteries!
Thanks for the suggestion.
Great job as always, Todd. You do a phenomenal job keeping the public informed on which items are potentially better than others! May I make a suggestion for a future video? As someone who's also fanatic about vehicle maintenance, could you research and test tire pressure gauges on accuracy? I have several brands, styles, digital and analog, they all read different pressures. Thanks for all you do, bud.
Thanks! Thanks for the video idea.
So true.
@@ProjectFarm I agree that a tire pressure gauge review would be great. I have several, and they don't agree, and I don't know which to trust!
I'll throw some more support behind this idea. I've noticed a huge discrepancy between different gauges. Even if you just use the same gauge all the time, if its 7psi off reality on a car tire thats important. Maybe none are that far off actual, but I've seen 7psi difference between a couple gauges on a tire.
Great idea!
I like how he puts so much effort into his videos and not only showcasing the tools but the battery technology as well and how he tests each battery
Thanks!
Project Farm, we appreciate YOU!
Thank you!
Project Farm should be a new federal agency. There should be a "PF" rating on all tools.
Thank you very much!
My take is that it seems that powerstack battery did very well for the power part. However, the capacity is pretty small and price is very steep so if you're not willing to pay premium for the weight/size, you should get a regular 5 Ah battery instead. Great testing as usual!
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
5 ah stacker is coming soon.
@@Bigfoothawk omg the price would be sky shaking.
So I've been running a mix of DeWalt batteries for awhile now and I love the little Power Stack battery on the compact atomic stubby impacts. It does a great job with bolts and lasts quite a long time, all things considered. For a leaf blower of SawzAll I always grab a bigger battery but more often than not I use the little one on impacts.
Potentially a case to be made for the professional who regularly does overhead work. But except for process-specific factory work and drywallers, what's the point? Maybe someone who has to climb with all their gear would care about weight that much.
You know what I really like about your channel>? you not only do unbiased product reviews, but you also do a very smart and thorough testing with crucial scenarios and realistic environment set-ups. You're so smart!
Thanks!
Love your videos and how in depth they are. Always great that you take viewer suggestions too. Reminds me that I just saw an add for heated windshield wipers. It would be great so see how they work and how they compare to other wipers that are used with deicer to clear a windshield. Or maybe a test of different deicer brands to compare how they work.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
This was a well-done test with valuable information--thank you! It has given me more confidence in my purchase. I got lucky yesterday and caught the 2-pack of Powerstack batteries on sale at Lowe's for $199--that included a free DeWalt 20v tool (I chose the DCW200). I have three other types of DeWalt batteries including the DCB201 (1.5Ah), DCB203 (3Ah) and the DCB205 (the 5Ah). i'm happy to get rid of the 201s and the 203s and keep the Powerstacks because of the smaller form factor and greater power output. The 203 is a ridiculous pack and I hate it. Keeping the 205 for use on the string trimmer, reciprocating saw, and the circular saw. It's a great heavy-duty battery. Thanks again for the excellent video!
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.
Awesome job, thanks again for your help and hard work kind sir
Very welcome!
Well done as always! BTW Courtney on the Good Works Tractor You Tube channel recently gave you kudos.
Thanks!
Another good video. I really like how you have your tests geared towards realistic use.
Thanks!
Love the content! I was hoping you could do a review on different cone style cold air intakes. I know the stock replacement KNN failed horribly so im trying to find another brand that values quality a bit more
Thank you for the video idea!
I went to buy a waterproofing spray/paste for my work boots and work shoes, boy are there a lot of them. Would be interesting to see which work, and which keep working after flexing/rubbing/aging. Love your quality and insight, thanks for your dedicated efforts!
You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
I'd like to see that as well.
If leather, Mink oil. If nylon, silicone oil.
the timing for this video coming up on my feed is perfect. i had no idea which one to get
Glad to hear!
Looking forward to your metal cutting saw video. No doubt it will be informative and full of useful info.
The 5AH battery has the advantage of lower discharge rate per cell, thus generating less heat and surviving at a more constant rate. Even without recharging, I find my batteries still have power once they return to ambient temperature. Heat is the enemy of Li-ion. Sporadic use allows the cells to cool between trigger pulls.
Great information
Yep. Heat does kill the Li-ion. The phone chargers that allow you to lay the phone on a pad and recharge without actually plugging in your phone generates more heat in the battery and will shorten the lifespan on your phone battery. And since recharging generates heat, it's best if you charge your phone when it gets down as low as possible. Each cycle of heating the battery shortens it's lifespan. Generally around 500 recharges and the Li-ion battery will start to lose capacity at an exponential rate, and it counts as a cycle whether you start charging with 1% or 50% battery remaining. We've all seen this with our phones. Usually around 1.5-2 years of having a phone and the battery loses life really fast because that is when you'll get to around 500 recharges.
Thanks for the feedback.
I was thinking about the same. I would be interested to see if the power stack battery recovers a lot of power after it has been allowed to cool.
Also lower discharge per cell means a lower voltage drop, thus more power through the tool. You effectively cut the internal resistance of the battery in half.
Great info as always. Pretty much confirmed my assumption that there is no need to replace my current batteries. If the situation warrants performance concerns, use the 5AH. But if they bring the price down, I would give the Powerstack a try. For now, I will wait for the early adopters to shake out the bugs.
Thanks for the feedback.
At last a real test 👍. Thx bud.
You are welcome!
You have the best videos on testing absolutely everything! I'm hooked on your channel! I've watched every video a few times. I highly appreciate all your vids! Btw I think you need a holiday! So much work and vids! Cheers 🙂👍👍👍
Thanks so much!
Woo hoo! Excited for this one
Thank you and hope you enjoy the video!
PF: I’ve watched tons of power stack videos as I just bought a new impact and was looking into new batteries. You testing as always, is very multifaceted and appropriate.
Like others I think I’ll wait for now but it does show lots of room to develop a 4ah battery (my personal fav capacity) at far less weight in the future. Really cool battery tech but not able to be mass adopted yet.
avoid these batteries or cells. pouch cells are fragile to physical, temp, and charging abuse
Li-Po batteries are old tech that has been surpassed for quite a while now it’s the same battery tech that was in early smartphones that would expand after awhile
I saw these and immediately thought project farm. I love these videos it's a great feeling knowing exactly what you can expect before buying something
Thanks!
Your videos are great! I've been trying to DIY different things around the house, and your videos have been a lot of help. The drywall anchors, and wood glue videos were especially helpful.
I did a quick search through your videos and couldn't find anything on lawn vacuums. I have to deal with quite a bit of acorns in my lawn, and was wondering if you knew which ones could handle that sort of load. Maybe that could be a good next video?
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
Good morning Project Farm. I love watching your videos, is there any way you could test door hardening products?? You could try comparing different styles of deadbolts, replacing screws for longer ones, kick plates, “door armor” and other door hardening kits or “hacks”, by testing how much force it takes to push open doors with them installed. I think it’d make for a really interesting video. Instead of purchasing whole doors, you could make “mini-doors” surrounded by the same type of wood that frames regular doors, then put them under your press to test how much force it takes to break it open.
Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm I love this video idea, however, the "mini-doors" would throw all of the data off for products designed for full sized doors.
Also, the smaller a door is in width, the more of a gap there has to be between the door and the door jam, making most locking mechanisms unable to work properly. The only way around this would be to make the doors thinner, but doing that would make them too weak to stand up to any useful tests of the products/kits/hacks.
Unfortunately I think that making a full sized door mockup, and then doing only non-destructive tests would be the only way to do this video idea.
That being said, I love the video idea, so if you can find a way to make it work, please do!
Reduced size and weight are the only factors making the "stack" a better deal. In every way the 5 AHr battery stomps the stack, especially in terms of price, because they are the same while the 5 Ahr provides more than twice the watt hours. I'll bet battery usable lifetime for the stack is atrocious compared to 5 AHr, too.
Thank you!
You’re incorrect. The power stack is supposed to have double the lifespan then the cylindrical counterparts.
@@juanc5149 I'd have to see an independent test to believe that clame. Normally Lipos have a much shorter life than a decent 18650.
@@juanc5149 I’ll believe it when I see it…. and see it repeated over time. We were told LED replacement lightbulbs would last much longer than incandescent but time has proven their cheap parts or manufacturing processes has produced bulbs that actually don’t last as long.
-Not all change is progress.
@@preachers4135 LEDs indeed last more than incandescent bulbs, but there are a lot of knock off LEDs like those cheap ones sold on ebay made with cheap drivers, insufficient heat dissipation and thin wiring that just won't last long. I have only replaced one of the LED bulbs at home since I made the switch 5 years ago.
Nice test with the standard 5ah battery added for performance and cost comparison. I held off on the 2ah PowerStack purchase since owning multiple 5ah batteries.
Since this video was made, I recently obtained the new 5ah PowerStack batteries for my 1/4” cordless router. I am very happy how they are working out with maintaining the cutting speed for smooth cuts. This router was purchased for dressing up existing in-place woodwork, a great setup. Happy to have waited for the 5ah PowerStack version to come out.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
Working at a hardware store that just recently started carrying these. According to the rep, these are the way dewalt is looking to go for all battery cells, but because of the reduced exposure of the surface area of each cell they haven't got a bigger battery ready to go yet. Having issues with shedding heat in bigger piles. The power stacks apparently also did better in extreme cold (Faibanks alaska in winter), but not "meaningfully worse" in extreme heat (Phoenix arizona in summer), which to me says it did do worse in heat but not much, which is consistent with the test results here. I'm also interested to see how the new 60v ultra high capacity when they hit the market. I haven't held one in my hands yep and I dont recall the AH rating but from the images they showed, the new battery looks huge (dwarfed the already very large 12AH) and I cant imagine it being useful in any but the most incredibly high demand settings. I am unsure but eyeballing it, it might be to large to fit inside the battery cradles for the later model 60v circular saws, the 60v chainsaws and the 60v table saw and might be to wide to have 2 side by side on the 120v miter saw. They said it was idea for the large 60v rotary hammer and cutoff saw, which makes a lot of sense. Would be a real wrist breaker on most others. Would be good if they made a true jackhammer intending to use those, since some other brands are hitting the market with battery jackhammers now.
We've seen the pouch style lipo batteries for 50 years in a lot of cheap products from small to big and also in cell phones. I've had them in things as small as action cameras to lithium jump starters. I hope this is not a way to give a cheaper product by marketing it as some new technology. Li-po is better at high current but it is more dangerous than the li-ion batteries from what I understand. We see in the video that the total power in Wh is lower with the power stack compared to the 2ah regular battery to. The power stack will have its place for high current applications though if you need a small battery. Any larger battery 5ah and up is going to have a lot of high current ability anyway no matter li-po or li-ion when it comes to power tool appicatons.
They'll probably build in some kind of aluminum heat spreader to make the bigger versions.
15aH is the monster
@@nimernimer that's the one!
Thanks for the feedback.
Interesting test. Especially comparing against the 2ah and 5ah to give a comparison of the different performance abilities. If one just read the label, you'd think the pouch cell was the total replacement for the 5ah. Not so fast, no free ride. Keep up the great work!!!!
Thanks, will do!
Just chiming in to say how much I like your content. I don't even have that many tools, but I watch because it shows off real products in a reasonable test, without selling random garbage. Thanks!
You are welcome!
Todd I love your channel and use it to help me make educated decisions in products. I would love to see you do a video on power inverters for cars.
Thanks for the video idea.
Would love to see a jack comparison. Bottle Jacks, floor jacks, scissor jacks, strength and durability but also portability and ease of use. There are some electric models that seem silly and interesting
Looks like a very good choice of battery for a little impact driver. Keeps it lite, makes it smaller so it can get into tighter spaces, and will allow the tool short burst of maximum power to drive or remove fasteners. Id say they hit the mark with this one!
Thanks for the feedback.
Awesome. All my coworkers are getting powerstack and I kept thinking "those are lipo batteries arent they" and you just cleared that up for me. Now I want some, Thanks!
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
Friend...you are the best. Great test as usual.
Thanks so much!
Super interesting, Commander! So far I have two 1.5 AH's and a 2 and always have a hot one and a spare and one to be charging if need be. Looks like with hotter batteries the tool will burn up or explode and you'd be stuck with a bag full of batteries and nothing to put them in, but I guess not. It'll be VERY interesting to watch and see what direction DeWalt goes with this. For now I'll probably just get 2's as the 1.5's die off. Thanks for a REALLY FINE test as always, happy wood heat and BLESSINGS all around!
Hi Lewie, Thank you very much! Great point on the hot batteries. They survived the quick drain air blower test without incident. Great point on getting the 2s. It's a proven technology with very reliable 18650 Korean cells. Wishing you all many BLESSINGS!!
@@ProjectFarm They keep cramming more power into the same case and soon it'll be atomic and so radioactive nobody can live being around them. If I get that hung up for power I'll just pull a cord and be done with it and let some atomic bomb plant run everything for a while. And there isn't a thing I can't get done with a 2 AH, or at least swap and have one charging up. It's working just fine with the 1.5's. Thanks again Commander and stay warm and burn that wood for more job security this summer! GBWYall!
I’m an electrician. I work on job sites every day. So I’ve seen the abuse that cordless tools take from guys and in my trade and other trades. And these tools take a beating. Being dropped from very high heights, drained to zero, and being used in extreme climates. I also have a large electric RC collection that use lipo batteries. Lipo batteries when abused can burn you house down with little warning. Each cell needs to be balanced. Cells cannot be damaged from drops causing a pouch to rupture and burst into flames. The old Samsung phone that would blow up in your pocket. No thanks. Wouldn’t want these batteries in my truck tool box baking in the sun working in the desert. Or charging at home or on the job unattended. There’s guys that sometimes leave thier batteries on a charger all day. I’m not going to trust the on board electronics in the battery or the charger. And if a guy is complaining about weight of a tool because the battery is heavy. Then get a desk job.
Thanks for sharing.
Dewalt claims to have solved all of these problems with the new battery.
@@asificam1 ni-mh doesn't like high power drain applications, and voltage is not as constant as nicad or lithium-ion. Power density is also much less than lithium-ion.
@@asificam1 going to bulkier, less power dense batteries, that ouput less current, and have smaller electrode surface area seeems to be the exact opposite of what every powertool manufacturer is doning and the exact opposite of the whole powerstack concept.
You want larger electrode surfaces to move more current, at 18-20v so modern tools have more power in smaller, compact, lighter pacakages.
Just going to ni-mh would double the weight alone.
You are by far my favorite TH-camr! Keep up the good work.
Wow, thanks, will do!
What an incredibly efficient and detailed video. Good work!
Thank you very much!
This again proved my purchase of only 5ah cell packs a wise decision.
In the last 15 years, the most unstable lithium ion batteries I have found are the molded pack design. From outright circuit failures during use, to 3 separate fires during charging, one of them technically exploding upon failure.
The individual cells in the 5ah pack can be replaced.
Not to mention the circuit has better control of current draw/charging of each cell, whereas the molded pack is monitored more as an entire unit and not so much as individual cells.
And worse case, if a cell in the cell type of battery pack is going bad, the individual cell is able to "turn" itself off, no longer giving nor receiving a charge. Many instances, that still leaves you with most of the rest of the cells to try to finish the job the best you can.
If even one cell in these molded packs fail, the entire pack is toast.
$120 for a battery pack vs $20 for 10 individual lithium ion cell batteries of the same output current or greater. The math alone shows the molded packs are not worth investing in any time soon.
Pay close attention to the very real fact that just the 2ah battery outlasted the molded pack design's discharge rate.
That is because those sorts of cells develop internal flaws every use/charge cycle whereas the individual cell types are designed to combat that very problem from the start.
Thanks for sharing.
I only use the 5ah or larger batterys I've found the 2 and 1.5 ones just die ton fast and have a noticable loss in power
5AH all day! Awesome run down as always and that price of the 5AH on Amazon is incredible! I'm ordering a few more now.
Thanks!
Be wary of Amazon tool batteries. Many are counterfeit or seconds that perform poorly and have short longevity.
Thanks for another great video. A couple suggestions for future videos: nut drivers and air compressors. Cheers!
You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestions.
Great job testing the batteries!
Thanks!
Just bought a Craftsman cordless heat gun and made me wonder how the other brands would stack against that. The Craftsman is either on or off with no adjustment to trigger pull. 4ah battery lasts 15 minutes and runs an alleged 950°. Not sure how it stacks to the other brands, but realizing no temp setting (and not much power blowing the heat out) it sort of limits uses. I'd like to see how the other cordless heat guns compare. Adjustable heat levels, does it blow air pretty good or just a slight wisp, do they get to temps that are advertised and how long do they last on one charge?
As always, amazing work! Thank you for what you do!
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
I bought the Milwaukee M18 heat gun and even with a 12ah battery it is so horrible I only use it if I have no access to 120V. I think that heat guns just need too much power to properly run on 18V. Love Milwaukee and have 30+ tools but this and the M12 vacuum upset me to even look at.
@@JayMoravec I know what you mean, I have B&D as well as Craftsman. Good for the DIY stuff I do but thought having a cordless heat gun would help with a lot of project too. No more bringing the small generator and 200 feet of extensions (only need about 50 but my luck...). And at 15 minutes per charge, I thought just 3 batteries and I'd be good for the day! Nope. Batteries last considerably less, plus there is next to no air movement. So the anticipated 45 minutes was closer to 10 and a lot of lost time going back home to drag out the usual gear while cursing myself for falling for "the x-ray vision specs from the back of a comic book". Lol!
Another reason why I love watching this channel as well as AVE. They are both informative, amusing and as well as showing the world that you don't have to be owned by a label.
Please change your title from “Pouch Cell” and “Large Lithium” to “Lithium Polymer” versus “Lithium Ion” - the correct descriptions. Also, I understand why you tested it against the regular 2ah pack (because DeWalt used it as the comparison for their marketing) but it really should only be compared to an XR pack. You used the 5ah XR pack instead of a 2ah XR pack. The XRs use different (better and more expensive) cells that have higher discharge rates (better amperage). That should have been explained in your video. I only buy XR packs.
Also, Lithium Polymer batteries are almost exclusively used to power radio controlled electrically powered airplanes - because they are light weight, pack a lot of amp hours, and the expensive ones have incredible high amperage capability.
As always, love your concise, scientific and excellently produced video.
Used in jump starters, phones, tablets, and small devices with custom batteries that companies don't want users replacing so they can fill their greedy pockets.
Outstanding! God bless you and your family and your channel.
Keep up the great work.
You are the only person out there, that is showing a true outcome.
Thanks, will do!
I'm super impressed and very happy with the results especially with the power stack.👍🏻
Thanks for the feedback.
Your videos are awesome and really helpful!! Like others have said.. right now at their current price I'd rather have 2 2AH or some 5AH than the Powerstack but if the prices drop I wouldnt mind using them... Be very careful opening up those pouch batteries.. they can catch fire really easily (and violently) if their contents get exposed to air/water. Additionally the quick cut off of their power is due to the power management board (BMS.. battery management system) they have.. they have to cut off the battery from over discharging to prevent them from being damaged.. basically if they are drained to "deep" they wont take a charge again... ergo the BMS cuts them off to save them.
The quick cut off is mostly due to the fact that the PowerStack is NOT a 2Ah battery, but a 1.7Ah one.