I will agree that DeWalt has the best batteries, but I wish they made all the battery cases the same as the PowerStack with the rubber base. Makes it feel a lot nicer and protects it a lot better. I also wish DeWalt wasn't so greedy when they launch new batteries. When the 1.7ah PowerStack battery came out, they wanted $170 bucks for it!? Then the 5ah came out at $250? They are crazy! Now though, the price is reasonable, especially on Amazon. I got a 5ah, 1.7ah and the new 4amp charger for $120. That's more like it.
A while back I commented on the fact that Stanley B&D and others were really not into the tool selling business but rather, they were in the battery selling business. This video proves my point.
DeWALT is the brand we have the most different batteries under, and yet is also the brand we get the most comments about batteries we still should have used or bought. It boggles the mind
DeWalt is the only battery brand I've had failures with, and multiple ones at that. I'm still using 2007 era Bosch batteries on a regular basis and they still provide useful work.
you can't advance the sale of your tools without improvements to the batteries. I don't think there was much of a point to be had in any case, these companies want to make $$ and to sell batteries you need to make your tools look impressive....via their power source.
I’ve sworn by the 6AH XR for close to five years now. I have an assortment of different DeWalt batteries, just got a two pack of the 1.7AH Powerstacks this week, but time and time again I find my tools hooked up to the 6AH XR. The length of time the battery lasts under use paired with a modest weight really keeps me coming back.
I love the 6ah battery also for the higher load tools. I have a 8ah and it only really gets used if the 6 is down or I need 2 tools during the same job
in my country 6.0Ah and 5.0Ah PS costs 135$ but 9.0Ah is 20$ more expensive (155$) than both of them, so should I get 9.0 or 6.0? will 5.0 last longer cause its new type of battery? Im leaning towards 9.0 cause its seems to be most powerful even than 15.0Ah
@@IslamsBomb 9.0Ah are heavier than the 6.0Ah XR. Noticeably heavier. I don’t mind using 9.0Ah on tools that require a lot of power pull like a circular saw. If you plan on using it for a screw gun/drill, I’d go with the 6.0Ah. Really depends on what kind of tool you plan on using it with.
I think that the people who accept promo kits do relevant testing too, but they seem to gloss over the fact it costs as much as a damn M18 HD12.0! My wallet finds that relevant
Another great test! My favorite battery packs are based on 21700 cells, since they are better than 18650 cells in every way. And the cells often are replaceable, making the battery easy to repair. Pouch cells tend to be much harder to replace. For future test the inclusion of model number for the cells that each brand uses for different batteries would be nice
@@SomeGuysGarage I think this varies a bit between manufacturers. My 4ah 21700 batteries from Bosch are way smaller than the 4-6ah 18650 battery and delivers way more amps. The 5.5ah 21700 is the same size as the 4-6ah 18650 but delivers wayyy more amps. The nice thing is that everyone can buy the tools that work for them :) I see the benefits of pouch cells, but I don't like that they are really hard to repair
@@masonkaye5 That is true. Pouch cells should also last longer since the cells are rated for more charge cycles. If for some reason a cell should stop working, replacing a pouch cell is almost impossible since the pack is glued. The 21700 cells are easy to swap out.
Excellent content. For me if you want small grab the 1.7 and large just grab the XR 6.0 as for now there is no way the price justifies the 5.0 stack battery and the size that it is.
@@brianingham3780 I have the 899. Does the 9ah Flex make a difference? I don't want a huge battery unless I need it. I've been thinking getting some Flex. I got this Flex Advantage reciprocating saw and I'm probably going to get some Flex batteries in the future.
If it really lasts twice as many charge cycles, then it's a screaming bargain, if you can find the PS on sale. But the problem is, how can anyone verify the claims? Some batteries that make big claims end up dying after a few months, there's just no way to know how long the Power Stack batteries will last in real world charging conditions?
Got to love DeWalt for pushing the boundaries on both tool performance and batteries. You got to know that this makes other companies take notice and will have to step up their game if they want to remain competitive. In the end, the consumer benefits by having better performing tools to pick from. Keep up the GREAT WORK, I believe your videos make a difference forcing the tool companies take notice of where their offering stack up in your tests....
They're not though, just look up "Dewalt battery wont charge". They have a catastrophic quality control problem with their batteries and they refuse to even RMA most of them.
My biggest take-away from this video is that my next battery purchase should be a 9Ah FlexVolt. I currently only have one 9Ah FlexVolt to run my 60V tool, and sometimes it runs out of juice before I finish a job. I was debating getting a 6Ah as a backup to the 9Ah, but it looks like it's a far better call to get a second 9Ah. As for the 5Ah PowerStack, I simply see no compelling reason to buy it based on this video.
Just like you I assumed they would be smaller. Lipo are awesome but have one huge drawback; they hate being stored at full charge (4.0-4.2V per cell). They however will have 10x lifespan if stored at 3/4 charge/3.8V per cell. A lot of high end electronics will self discharge a battery pack after 24-48 hours to this voltage to preserve the pack overall life. Curious what the initial pack voltage is? And if it self discharges?
The pouch cells used here are still Lithium Ion and not Lithium Polymer. Essentially, the chemistry is similar to that of the 18650 and 21700 cells previously used in battery packs just with a new packaging.
The PowerStack 5.0ah is bigger than expected. I ordered one from Hm. Dep. & returned it, as the slight increase in power was 'outweighed' by its & cost...
I like how the 6AH 20v performs. I would love to see some testing with the 8AH and 10AH 20v as well. I have used all three of these on impacts and it seems like the 8AH and 10AH can out perform the 6AH. Great videos! Thanks again!
Have you considered a food vacuum sealer for your volume tests? It won't be perfect, but it might be better than you current methods. The food grade plastic is thicker than a grocery bag, but it doesn't bridge voids _too_ badly in my experience. Just a thought. Keep up the good work.
I think bridging the voids is somewhat the point, as having random cavities in the tool profile don’t really help you get into tighter spaces any better
The nice thing about 18650 and other cylindrical cell batteries is that they can be rebuilt and repaired with commodity cells. I'm guessing that won't be the case with the pouches
You should test Ryobi's 18 volt cutoff tool as a part two of this test. Also, I would like to add that some tools may have constant velocity compensation that can make the RPM stay constant within the load range rating of the tool. What constant velocity compensation (also known as IR compensation) does is try to keep the motor running at the same RPM under various load conditions. So say for example you have a DC motor that needed to turn at 500 RPM and you needed 12 volts to do that, but it keeps slowing down as you apply more load. Well the way around that is using a controller with velocity feedback by either a sensor or indirect measure of the armature voltage and higher voltage applied to the controller. The controller will increase the voltage as soon as the RPM drops keeping the RPM at a dead steady 500 within limits of course until either current limit is reached or run out of voltage or over heat protection kicks in.
These PowerStack batteries are awesome. I absolutely love them because they do give a LOT more power than the standard XR batteries. I had an 8ah battery on my 7-1/4" miter saw and swapped it for the 5ah PowerStack and my god! It chews through boards like butter. With the 8ah, it liked to bog down and then kick really bad, so I had to run the saw really slowly so it didn't kick or bog down. I thought it was just underpowered and turns out that it was. That 5ah PowerStack is a beast!
I’d be interested in seeing the 8ah tested out and compared. The 6ah is my go to choice for everything but the small impacts. I’m wondering if the 8 would beat the 15 since the 6 already seems close.
I doubt it would beat it in power. Larger capacity cells often have slightly lower outputs than lower capacity ones of the same type, and that usually holds true with 8Ah vs 6Ah batteries.
@@kylefowler5082 2years they overdraw and then won’t charge I’ve had 3 go bad and they are probably the 1st Gen as the clips that hold the batt to the tool break… all my other batteries work fine ..
RIght now, it's 1/4 smaller and lighter, but 1.5-2x the price in singles. The DCBP520-2 ($349) vs the DCB206-2 ($269)....I'll stick with the 6ah packs for now I guess. That extra $80 (on 12/7/22) is noticeable.
Im not suprised by size. Flex stack lithium 6 and 10ah are pretty big. Also i feel like not a lot of ppl realize that the 5ah is basically 3 times the capacity of the OG power. 1.7 x 3= 5.1. Is it triple the size or only double or in between?
This is completely irrelevant to the video but. My boss just bought the mikwaukee 1 inch D handle extended version! He bought it to take off the tires of our big rig international. I got to use it to take one of the tires off. That thing is awesome!
So what main brand battery system is bang for buck needing a recip or sawzall pistol shape saw for stump removal work. Garden tools useful to have available as well as stihl 36v
I really like the PS batteries, especially the relatively tiny 1.7, but the size of the 5 is very helpful when I set down some tools in the upright (standing) position.
Kobalt Ultimate Output 24-Volt 8 Amp-Hour been on sale for $99 or $40 off at Lowe's. One of the main reasons I've been buying more Kobalt tools. Economy is a factor these days for some of us.
While I only own a few Dewalt tools I do like that there are options to batteries. the only major Dewalt tool I own is the Multi-tool (Oscillating-tool). Smaller batteries (2Ah) are better for cutting up on a ladder, but cutting on the ground a lagger battery is ok. If the new PS batteries get smaller with more beans then that might be an option worth paying for?
Thank You for the comparison.. I was going to buy the 5ah power stack.. after watching your video! I'll save my money.. that kinda of premium without a huge performance isn't worth the money.. The old power stack is compact and worth having one.
Excellent, and very informative review. Just picked one of these up having seen a really good deal here in the UK, (I've already got one of the 1.7Ah packs) and performance-wise, must admit I'm impressed. Clearly a fair bit lower internal resistance than the traditional 5Ah packs and a fair chunk more total energy usable per charge. Will I switch over to them in preference to the standard packs? Probably not, but for my more power-hungry tools they make a better partner, no doubt. As for the pack being 'front heavy', that's fair comment but also inevitable given their need to fit into the rotary hammers and other tools that mount the battery 'backwards'. For this reason, the spatial relationship between the mounting plane and the rear face of the pack needs to be identical to the round cell packs, limiting DeWalt's options in terms of where the extra area is distributed. If it wasn't at the front of the pack, it'd need to be in a lot of extra width.
Could you answer or do a video to see if any user input can affect the power curve? Such as twisting your wrist or holding it really tight, pushing towards the bolt really hard etc?
It would be interesting to see how much age of the battery affects the test results. Would you get the same results after the battery is a few years old?
Looking for recommendations on which impact drill and hammer drill to go with… im a plumber so Don’t really need the crazy high torque ones…but want something powerful that can live up to the daily abuse
Alright, post viewing takeaways... When I chose the 5PS, I was deciding between it and the 6XR and these results show that I was making the right comparison. That's good news. Because of the reasonable size, I can (and have) replace all of my smaller batteries for my smaller tools with them. But because of the performance, I can feel confident running it in my bigger tools as well although, I am going to keep my 8XR and 10XRs handy for their extended run time over this one. NICE! This is the comparison I was looking for, for a week and taking the leap without seeing it. Like I said, most people saw the number '5" and wanted to compare it to the 5XR and it just kept winning because that is not the right battery for comparison purposes. Now, that ad you showed on Amazon for the 6XR for 91 bones...that guy is still running that ad here in the future. He's at $84 now. And for that price, I was tempted to go with the 6 and just buy four from him. BUT...I am a little gun shy. I got burned recently on ebay, and ended up with two counterfeit 5XRs. So I dug deeper there. Amazon is an authorized DeWalt seller, but everyone who sells on Amazon is not Amazon. That guy is not Amazon. So I jumped in the questions section and asked the direct question. He answered that he is not a DeWalt authorized dealer. Understand, that does NOT mean he is selling fake batteries. His batteries may be right as rain. It just means you do not have the guarantee. Whether you should take the chance or not is up to you, but you should absolutely have this information going in. You can buy a 2 pack of 5XRs directly from Amazon, without that risk. Those go for 196 so...about $14 more per battery. On the flip side, I paid 300 per two pack at Lowes for the 5 PS. Yes, I could have found a better price, but Lowes has a program where they let you pay for your stuff over 90 days (as them about Progressive Leasing), and it doesn't cost much (unless you go over 90 days...on day 91 they ream you, so be careful there). 200 per month for 3 months (I bought two 2 packs) was just easier for me to handle right now, so I did it that way. There...now we all have the benefit of each other's experience, and everyone else has all of the information they could possibly need to make good decisions.
just about to start investing in some dewalt stuff, i feel the 6ah XR and the 9ah flex volt are the two stand outs, also the 1.7 power surge for small stuff, everything else seems to be a bit to in-between or limited.
I was hoping he would do a displacement test on the compact 3ah battery so that I could see a volumetric comparison of the old generation 18650 based batteries with the newer 21700 counterparts.
Im choosing Metabo 18v grinder on 9Ah FlexVolt with adapter (or 9Ah Makita, same and cheapo, but no FV in future, with SONY VTC6 or LG HG2 both have their yay and nahs). This was a good time with Your channel I wish I could like twice. Heck, Ill find random vid on Your channel and like it just because I can and You deserve to be mainstream. It was great friendship for me, Ill flashback You with Respect. Much Many Thanx, Mister. Thats what Internets are made for.
@@TorqueTestChannel sony only has 4ah 21700's but there were version with sanyos 20700 :) 30T are beasts and you are lucky to have them! I just built a few 40v xgt packs with 30T's crazy stuff
@@riba2233 Yes, the early ones had 20700's which is why we only purchase 6 and 9's new. I meant that some DeWALT packs in general use Sony's, it's a grab bag sometimes
@@TorqueTestChannel true, they use cells from all 4 major brands. Luckily nothing from eve and other chinese companies like ryobi does now. There are some good ones but you never know
Wow the UK version DCBP518-XJ which has been available for a while now is currently around £120-£130 inc VAT, think I might pick one up before they hike the price.
Can you guys test the most powerful cordless miter saws? Especially since Flex just dropped that new 12" miter saw and DeWalt (new Flexvolt), Milwaukee, Ryobi, Makita, Hercules, and Bosch all have a cordless 12" saw. I want to know which has the most power. I'm assuming DeWalt due to the 60v Flexvolt version, but I could be wrong.
Since impakt wrench results are almost indistinguishable from each other for very different batteries, it's pretty clear the bottleneck is not in the battery but the motor-hammer combo. Similarly to the kut-off tool. Needs testing with different tools to determine real ampacity.
What a great video. I came here to find how good are those PowerStack 5Ah and after this video, I want a pair of 6 Ah batteries to replace my 9 year old 4 Ah batteries.
i wonder how many batteries are put together well enough to max the tool they're going onto or even if later newer battery construction could do better.
Not that you didn't do a good job of sealing the batteries for the displacement test, but there are several dielectric fluids out there that are non conductive. Don't know if you've already looked into these(or even just distilled water) but just a suggestion!
I love my 1.7 PS batteries but like you said the 6AH is the sweet spot. Can’t say I’m sold on the 5 PS just yet. Maybe if price wiggles and I can get them for around 125-150/ piece
Is there anyway to swap a 3/8 anvil into a 1/2 anvil in a Dewalt DCF921b? I was given the 921b as a gift but can’t return it even swap as it was part of a holiday bundle. Is there anywhere to buy dewalt anvils? All my sockets are 3/8 and I’d rather not run a reducer all the time.
Enjoyed your video. Could you please elaborate on your comment about the 6ah FlexVolt at the 5:15-5:22 mark? As someone who's bought into the FlexVolt line I found the comment provocative but I'm not clear on what you're getting at. Thank you!
I bought two half inch milwaukee impacts and one 5 amp bat failed completely..and the other two seem at half capacity at three years old and ten charges or less. Pretty sad considering the price.
@@TorqueTestChannel oh yeah of course. I would have assumed more performance due to parallel cells but I guess it wouldn't be any different than a 'normal' 6ah battery
@@masonkaye5 4v is quite nice for Li-Ion, 4.25 is the usual max charge voltage (no one stop the phone producers to exceed that and claim longer life per charge)
I feel like the tool company's gain just as much from you guys now as we all do. And I really appreciate honest, unbiased testing.
Obviously it's good for dewalt because they have the best battery line but it's not good for the sub par companies cause they get exposed
You can jump start a car or one of those batteries
@@n.b.p.davenport7066 works best with the xr series btw
I will agree that DeWalt has the best batteries, but I wish they made all the battery cases the same as the PowerStack with the rubber base. Makes it feel a lot nicer and protects it a lot better.
I also wish DeWalt wasn't so greedy when they launch new batteries. When the 1.7ah PowerStack battery came out, they wanted $170 bucks for it!? Then the 5ah came out at $250? They are crazy!
Now though, the price is reasonable, especially on Amazon. I got a 5ah, 1.7ah and the new 4amp charger for $120. That's more like it.
A while back I commented on the fact that Stanley B&D and others were really not into the tool selling business but rather, they were in the battery selling business. This video proves my point.
DeWALT is the brand we have the most different batteries under, and yet is also the brand we get the most comments about batteries we still should have used or bought. It boggles the mind
DeWalt is the only battery brand I've had failures with, and multiple ones at that.
I'm still using 2007 era Bosch batteries on a regular basis and they still provide useful work.
you can't advance the sale of your tools without improvements to the batteries. I don't think there was much of a point to be had in any case, these companies want to make $$ and to sell batteries you need to make your tools look impressive....via their power source.
Yea but look at the numbers that dcf900 puts up, I would say that's the tool of all tools
@@jaywelker5566 I stand by my comment. Pretty soon, the use of Stanley B&D products are going to require a subscription, mark my words.
I’ve sworn by the 6AH XR for close to five years now. I have an assortment of different DeWalt batteries, just got a two pack of the 1.7AH Powerstacks this week, but time and time again I find my tools hooked up to the 6AH XR. The length of time the battery lasts under use paired with a modest weight really keeps me coming back.
I love the 6ah battery also for the higher load tools. I have a 8ah and it only really gets used if the 6 is down or I need 2 tools during the same job
in my country 6.0Ah and 5.0Ah PS costs 135$ but 9.0Ah is 20$ more expensive (155$) than both of them, so should I get 9.0 or 6.0? will 5.0 last longer cause its new type of battery? Im leaning towards 9.0 cause its seems to be most powerful even than 15.0Ah
@@IslamsBomb 9.0Ah are heavier than the 6.0Ah XR. Noticeably heavier. I don’t mind using 9.0Ah on tools that require a lot of power pull like a circular saw. If you plan on using it for a screw gun/drill, I’d go with the 6.0Ah. Really depends on what kind of tool you plan on using it with.
I love this channel…the people’s channel
I think that the people who accept promo kits do relevant testing too, but they seem to gloss over the fact it costs as much as a damn M18 HD12.0! My wallet finds that relevant
Judge Wapner would be proud of them!
And project farm
@@TorqueTestChannel Do you know if all dewalt 9ah flex volt come with the Samsung batteries?
Another great test!
My favorite battery packs are based on 21700 cells, since they are better than 18650 cells in every way. And the cells often are replaceable, making the battery easy to repair. Pouch cells tend to be much harder to replace.
For future test the inclusion of model number for the cells that each brand uses for different batteries would be nice
I don't like the size of the 21700 cell packs though, they're just bulky dimensionally with that extra width and length.
@@SomeGuysGarage I think this varies a bit between manufacturers. My 4ah 21700 batteries from Bosch are way smaller than the 4-6ah 18650 battery and delivers way more amps. The 5.5ah 21700 is the same size as the 4-6ah 18650 but delivers wayyy more amps.
The nice thing is that everyone can buy the tools that work for them :) I see the benefits of pouch cells, but I don't like that they are really hard to repair
But pouch cells are generally more reliable and because the tabs are soldiered on instead of spot welded on the chance of losing contact is much lower
@@TheJensss specifically with Dewalt...I actually prefer the size of the 5ah 18650 battery over say the newer 3ah or 4ah 21700 batteries.
@@masonkaye5 That is true. Pouch cells should also last longer since the cells are rated for more charge cycles. If for some reason a cell should stop working, replacing a pouch cell is almost impossible since the pack is glued. The 21700 cells are easy to swap out.
Excellent content. For me if you want small grab the 1.7 and large just grab the XR 6.0 as for now there is no way the price justifies the 5.0 stack battery and the size that it is.
I run the 1.7 on my compact tools and the 9ah flex on my 899 and flexvolt tools
@@brianingham3780 I have the 899. Does the 9ah Flex make a difference? I don't want a huge battery unless I need it. I've been thinking getting some Flex. I got this Flex Advantage reciprocating saw and I'm probably going to get some Flex batteries in the future.
If it lasts twice as long and handles load spikes better then it will be very popular among contractors.
If it really lasts twice as many charge cycles, then it's a screaming bargain, if you can find the PS on sale. But the problem is, how can anyone verify the claims? Some batteries that make big claims end up dying after a few months, there's just no way to know how long the Power Stack batteries will last in real world charging conditions?
They have a two pack of 5 AH power stacks for $229 at Lowe’s right now
Got to love DeWalt for pushing the boundaries on both tool performance and batteries. You got to know that this makes other companies take notice and will have to step up their game if they want to remain competitive. In the end, the consumer benefits by having better performing tools to pick from. Keep up the GREAT WORK, I believe your videos make a difference forcing the tool companies take notice of where their offering stack up in your tests....
They're not though, just look up "Dewalt battery wont charge". They have a catastrophic quality control problem with their batteries and they refuse to even RMA most of them.
You can say this for any tool.
My two best youtube channels! You guys are the consumer report of the TH-cam world. Torque Test Channel and Project Farm🙌❤. Keep up the good work.
i agree 100%, one fool from Mumbai India who has Makita 18/40V and dewalt 20V tools lineup
My biggest take-away from this video is that my next battery purchase should be a 9Ah FlexVolt. I currently only have one 9Ah FlexVolt to run my 60V tool, and sometimes it runs out of juice before I finish a job. I was debating getting a 6Ah as a backup to the 9Ah, but it looks like it's a far better call to get a second 9Ah.
As for the 5Ah PowerStack, I simply see no compelling reason to buy it based on this video.
Yep, I agree. Def not a big upgrade and the cheapest I can find it is $322 for a 2 pack. I got my 2 6ah 20Vs for $160 a few years ago.
Just like you I assumed they would be smaller. Lipo are awesome but have one huge drawback; they hate being stored at full charge (4.0-4.2V per cell). They however will have 10x lifespan if stored at 3/4 charge/3.8V per cell. A lot of high end electronics will self discharge a battery pack after 24-48 hours to this voltage to preserve the pack overall life. Curious what the initial pack voltage is? And if it self discharges?
The pouch cells used here are still Lithium Ion and not Lithium Polymer. Essentially, the chemistry is similar to that of the 18650 and 21700 cells previously used in battery packs just with a new packaging.
They arent LiPos.
The PowerStack 5.0ah is bigger than expected. I ordered one from Hm. Dep. & returned it, as the slight increase in power was 'outweighed' by its & cost...
Wow! This new 5Ah Powerstack really kills it here!
_looks at price_
...But what's another 1/2 pound on top of an 8 pound tool, anyways?
Great tests. You can get the 15.0 right now for $250 so $235 for the 5.0 PS is ridiculous.
I like how the 6AH 20v performs. I would love to see some testing with the 8AH and 10AH 20v as well. I have used all three of these on impacts and it seems like the 8AH and 10AH can out perform the 6AH. Great videos! Thanks again!
Great job fellas
You guys are putting in the work. I hope your channel continues to grow a bunch.
Have you considered a food vacuum sealer for your volume tests? It won't be perfect, but it might be better than you current methods. The food grade plastic is thicker than a grocery bag, but it doesn't bridge voids _too_ badly in my experience. Just a thought. Keep up the good work.
I think bridging the voids is somewhat the point, as having random cavities in the tool profile don’t really help you get into tighter spaces any better
Oh, man, I was about to request this exact video. Glad you guys were a step ahead of me.
The nice thing about 18650 and other cylindrical cell batteries is that they can be rebuilt and repaired with commodity cells. I'm guessing that won't be the case with the pouches
Know anyone that can repair 6.0ah Flexvolt batteries? I have no idea why but they seem to fail more than any other dewalt battery I own.
I noticed an increase in power on my 1/2" impact a few years ago when I bought the 6ah battery. It was a nice bonus
Wow! I don't know how you do it, but you guys keep bringing awesome content to this channel. Thank you! Where's your tip jar like PF has?
No tip jar, no Patreon, sorry
@@TorqueTestChannel Freakin love you guys!
Excited to see this but I can't understand why they didn't shift the bulk backwards.
Tools stand up easier
@@TorqueTestChannel Can it not stand up on the 5ah?
Depends on the tool. A high torque is iffy
I've fallen in love with this channel. It shuts sooooo many dudes in the shop right up
I have four 8ah bats.Wish I knew you needed one for this test.
You should test Ryobi's 18 volt cutoff tool as a part two of this test. Also, I would like to add that some tools may have constant velocity compensation that can make the RPM stay constant within the load range rating of the tool. What constant velocity compensation (also known as IR compensation) does is try to keep the motor running at the same RPM under various load conditions. So say for example you have a DC motor that needed to turn at 500 RPM and you needed 12 volts to do that, but it keeps slowing down as you apply more load. Well the way around that is using a controller with velocity feedback by either a sensor or indirect measure of the armature voltage and higher voltage applied to the controller. The controller will increase the voltage as soon as the RPM drops keeping the RPM at a dead steady 500 within limits of course until either current limit is reached or run out of voltage or over heat protection kicks in.
Not to many other channels put in the work that this channel does!!!!!!
These PowerStack batteries are awesome. I absolutely love them because they do give a LOT more power than the standard XR batteries. I had an 8ah battery on my 7-1/4" miter saw and swapped it for the 5ah PowerStack and my god! It chews through boards like butter.
With the 8ah, it liked to bog down and then kick really bad, so I had to run the saw really slowly so it didn't kick or bog down. I thought it was just underpowered and turns out that it was. That 5ah PowerStack is a beast!
I’d be interested in seeing the 8ah tested out and compared. The 6ah is my go to choice for everything but the small impacts. I’m wondering if the 8 would beat the 15 since the 6 already seems close.
I doubt it would beat it in power. Larger capacity cells often have slightly lower outputs than lower capacity ones of the same type, and that usually holds true with 8Ah vs 6Ah batteries.
I wonder how about the cyclic life of these high output batteries… as my m12 6ah didn’t last very long ..
How old is your 6ah m12, I've seen on Facebook people saying it's the newer 6ah's with issues
@@kylefowler5082 2years they overdraw and then won’t charge I’ve had 3 go bad and they are probably the 1st Gen as the clips that hold the batt to the tool break… all my other batteries work fine ..
RIght now, it's 1/4 smaller and lighter, but 1.5-2x the price in singles. The DCBP520-2 ($349) vs the DCB206-2 ($269)....I'll stick with the 6ah packs for now I guess. That extra $80 (on 12/7/22) is noticeable.
Im not suprised by size. Flex stack lithium 6 and 10ah are pretty big. Also i feel like not a lot of ppl realize that the 5ah is basically 3 times the capacity of the OG power. 1.7 x 3= 5.1. Is it triple the size or only double or in between?
This is completely irrelevant to the video but. My boss just bought the mikwaukee 1 inch D handle extended version! He bought it to take off the tires of our big rig international. I got to use it to take one of the tires off. That thing is awesome!
Wow,The most informative video in the history of this channel!...This one will be king of views in no time,fantastic job TTC!
I'd like to se similar test with the Flex tool line - they also have standard and stacked Lithium versions.
DeWalt is really stepping it up.
Nice testing!
So what main brand battery system is bang for buck needing a recip or sawzall pistol shape saw for stump removal work. Garden tools useful to have available as well as stihl 36v
How does the 8AH battery fit in on the voltage sag chart??
I really like the PS batteries, especially the relatively tiny 1.7, but the size of the 5 is very helpful when I set down some tools in the upright (standing) position.
do a run time test you ll be blown away I saw like double the screws on one battery compared to a regular new 5ah
What about the Flex power stack ?
Kobalt Ultimate Output 24-Volt 8 Amp-Hour been on sale for $99 or $40 off at Lowe's. One of the main reasons I've been buying more Kobalt tools. Economy is a factor these days for some of us.
Or your like me and buy Adapter for your RIDGID and MILWAUKEE power tools and run a KoBalt battery and gain lots of Power Cheap
Wow that's interesting, I got one yesterday for around US$140. Nice to see we got a better deal here for a change.
While I only own a few Dewalt tools I do like that there are options to batteries. the only major Dewalt tool I own is the Multi-tool (Oscillating-tool). Smaller batteries (2Ah) are better for cutting up on a ladder, but cutting on the ground a lagger battery is ok. If the new PS batteries get smaller with more beans then that might be an option worth paying for?
You guys should test kobalt tools with the 8ah xr battery
Thank You for the comparison.. I was going to buy the 5ah power stack.. after watching your video! I'll save my money.. that kinda of premium without a huge performance isn't worth the money..
The old power stack is compact and worth having one.
I manage to buy 3 for $45 each thru marketplace. Never pay full price, it’s absurdly too expensive.
Excellent, and very informative review. Just picked one of these up having seen a really good deal here in the UK, (I've already got one of the 1.7Ah packs) and performance-wise, must admit I'm impressed. Clearly a fair bit lower internal resistance than the traditional 5Ah packs and a fair chunk more total energy usable per charge. Will I switch over to them in preference to the standard packs? Probably not, but for my more power-hungry tools they make a better partner, no doubt.
As for the pack being 'front heavy', that's fair comment but also inevitable given their need to fit into the rotary hammers and other tools that mount the battery 'backwards'. For this reason, the spatial relationship between the mounting plane and the rear face of the pack needs to be identical to the round cell packs, limiting DeWalt's options in terms of where the extra area is distributed. If it wasn't at the front of the pack, it'd need to be in a lot of extra width.
Could you answer or do a video to see if any user input can affect the power curve? Such as twisting your wrist or holding it really tight, pushing towards the bolt really hard etc?
It would be interesting to see how much age of the battery affects the test results. Would you get the same results after the battery is a few years old?
I have a few of the older DeWalt 20v Max batteries: will these work with today’s drills (800, 805, etc)?
I'm waiting for the flexvolt powerstack
Looking for recommendations on which impact drill and hammer drill to go with… im a plumber so Don’t really need the crazy high torque ones…but want something powerful that can live up to the daily abuse
Did they put a capacitor bank in the flat pack? That's a very interesting voltage curve. I want to see what's inside.
Wow impressive that the 5ah PowerStack was a few foot pounds lower then the 15ah that I wasn't expecting @Torque Test Channel
Alright, post viewing takeaways...
When I chose the 5PS, I was deciding between it and the 6XR and these results show that I was making the right comparison.
That's good news. Because of the reasonable size, I can (and have) replace all of my smaller batteries for my smaller tools with them. But because of the performance, I can feel confident running it in my bigger tools as well although, I am going to keep my 8XR and 10XRs handy for their extended run time over this one.
NICE! This is the comparison I was looking for, for a week and taking the leap without seeing it. Like I said, most people saw the number '5" and wanted to compare it to the 5XR and it just kept winning because that is not the right battery for comparison purposes.
Now, that ad you showed on Amazon for the 6XR for 91 bones...that guy is still running that ad here in the future. He's at $84 now. And for that price, I was tempted to go with the 6 and just buy four from him. BUT...I am a little gun shy. I got burned recently on ebay, and ended up with two counterfeit 5XRs. So I dug deeper there.
Amazon is an authorized DeWalt seller, but everyone who sells on Amazon is not Amazon. That guy is not Amazon. So I jumped in the questions section and asked the direct question. He answered that he is not a DeWalt authorized dealer. Understand, that does NOT mean he is selling fake batteries. His batteries may be right as rain. It just means you do not have the guarantee. Whether you should take the chance or not is up to you, but you should absolutely have this information going in.
You can buy a 2 pack of 5XRs directly from Amazon, without that risk. Those go for 196 so...about $14 more per battery. On the flip side, I paid 300 per two pack at Lowes for the 5 PS. Yes, I could have found a better price, but Lowes has a program where they let you pay for your stuff over 90 days (as them about Progressive Leasing), and it doesn't cost much (unless you go over 90 days...on day 91 they ream you, so be careful there). 200 per month for 3 months (I bought two 2 packs) was just easier for me to handle right now, so I did it that way.
There...now we all have the benefit of each other's experience, and everyone else has all of the information they could possibly need to make good decisions.
The channel that works for YOU!
just about to start investing in some dewalt stuff, i feel the 6ah XR and the 9ah flex volt are the two stand outs, also the 1.7 power surge for small stuff, everything else seems to be a bit to in-between or limited.
"It handles like a trailer with a blown tire"--best line ever on TT Channel!
Can you test the Dewalt 8Ah Powerpack tabless battery?
Wow at how massive the 5ah PowerStack is vs the 1.7ah PowerStack interesting @Torque Test Channel
I was hoping he would do a displacement test on the compact 3ah battery so that I could see a volumetric comparison of the old generation 18650 based batteries with the newer 21700 counterparts.
Im choosing Metabo 18v grinder on 9Ah FlexVolt with adapter (or 9Ah Makita, same and cheapo, but no FV in future, with SONY VTC6 or LG HG2 both have their yay and nahs). This was a good time with Your channel I wish I could like twice. Heck, Ill find random vid on Your channel and like it just because I can and You deserve to be mainstream. It was great friendship for me, Ill flashback You with Respect. Much Many Thanx, Mister. Thats what Internets are made for.
awesome tests as usuall! Btw they don't always use 30T's, I have seen some using LG H30 which are just slightly worse.
True, and Sony as well. Ours had 30T's luckily inside
@@TorqueTestChannel sony only has 4ah 21700's but there were version with sanyos 20700 :)
30T are beasts and you are lucky to have them! I just built a few 40v xgt packs with 30T's crazy stuff
@@riba2233 Yes, the early ones had 20700's which is why we only purchase 6 and 9's new. I meant that some DeWALT packs in general use Sony's, it's a grab bag sometimes
@@TorqueTestChannel true, they use cells from all 4 major brands. Luckily nothing from eve and other chinese companies like ryobi does now. There are some good ones but you never know
Wow the UK version DCBP518-XJ which has been available for a while now is currently around £120-£130 inc VAT, think I might pick one up before they hike the price.
I wonder how much power the tool would make if you hooked it directly to a power supply. How much are the tools throttled by just being on a battery?
How does the 'Ah' affects performance and torque? Voltage is the same right? Isnt the more 'Ah' supposed to be just for more backup?
So my 6 ah’s is still the way to go!!!! Thank you for the data
Circa 10AH powerstack flexvolt battery next, coupled with a flexvolt 3/4" impact wrench? I have zero use for it but it would be so cool to see.
Great video as always! When I can get my hands on the new powerstack I would like to see how it is for power and run time the brushless angle grinder.
Can you guys test the most powerful cordless miter saws? Especially since Flex just dropped that new 12" miter saw and DeWalt (new Flexvolt), Milwaukee, Ryobi, Makita, Hercules, and Bosch all have a cordless 12" saw. I want to know which has the most power.
I'm assuming DeWalt due to the 60v Flexvolt version, but I could be wrong.
Nice. Maybe I need to make an adaptor and run my 18v snapon ct9075 with one ?
Since impakt wrench results are almost indistinguishable from each other for very different batteries, it's pretty clear the bottleneck is not in the battery but the motor-hammer combo. Similarly to the kut-off tool. Needs testing with different tools to determine real ampacity.
What a great video. I came here to find how good are those PowerStack 5Ah and after this video, I want a pair of 6 Ah batteries to replace my 9 year old 4 Ah batteries.
Which DeWalt 20V batteries use 21700 cells? And the Milwaukee M12 HO batteries still use 18650 cells right?
Can you do a test of different Socket Hex Keys? (The sockets you use for Socket Head Cap Screws)
i wonder how many batteries are put together well enough to max the tool they're going onto or even if later newer battery construction could do better.
Just the info I was looking for. Thanks!
How much power does the 9ah flexvolt put on forward? 960? 961?
Not that you didn't do a good job of sealing the batteries for the displacement test, but there are several dielectric fluids out there that are non conductive. Don't know if you've already looked into these(or even just distilled water) but just a suggestion!
I love my 1.7 PS batteries but like you said the 6AH is the sweet spot. Can’t say I’m sold on the 5 PS just yet. Maybe if price wiggles and I can get them for around 125-150/ piece
Is there anyway to swap a 3/8 anvil into a 1/2 anvil in a Dewalt DCF921b? I was given the 921b as a gift but can’t return it even swap as it was part of a holiday bundle.
Is there anywhere to buy dewalt anvils? All my sockets are 3/8 and I’d rather not run a reducer all the time.
That is really interesting that you can see that battery's power curve in the torque curve.
Anyone knows the reason why the 6Ah XR battery is not available in the UK nor Europe? Only the Flexvolt 6Ah, 9Ah, 12Ah and 15Ah but not the 6Ah XR
I LOVE your channel, buy jeesus, you guys are confoosing... Spend a good bit more time on helping me figure out wtf you're talking about..
Was really looking forward to this one :) thanks TTC!
crazy, I bought the battery 1,5 month ago in the Netherlands for 140 euro's, about 150 dollar. The 5 AH goes for 100 dollars ish
Great video. I’m not a Dewalt guy but interesting technology that I can see all the brands using. Thanks.
Maybe in 20 years... Thanks, patents.
Enjoyed your video. Could you please elaborate on your comment about the 6ah FlexVolt at the 5:15-5:22 mark? As someone who's bought into the FlexVolt line I found the comment provocative but I'm not clear on what you're getting at. Thank you!
Bro, can you help me out here, please? I'd really like to know what you mean about "been telling people this for years".
Do you not have an 8ah to test? I don't recall seeing it in the dozen DeWalt videos I've seen unless it's over a year ago
Great comparison, not worth the crazy price though. The 5ah 18650 based XR is still best bang for buck imho.
Im needing a new drill and driver should i go with the 18v or 20v
I currently run different DeWalt batteries and would like to know if there's any hints or tells to know if my battery is 18650 or 21700?
Thank you I've been waiting for this one!!
Is there a way to mod dcf899 with replacing parts and make it powerfull like dcf900?
Thanks for your videos! Hyper Tough has a new brushless impact driver clone of the M12 that they sell at Walmart, can you test vs the Milwaukee.
would when you measure displacement with your fingers skew results? or is it consistent enough to compare still?
Same fingers each time and our ml resolution is not fine enough to pick it up
what's the best impact for forward tho, we have a work environment where we rarely to never run impacts in reverse
This dcf900
I bought two half inch milwaukee impacts and one 5 amp bat failed completely..and the other two seem at half capacity at three years old and ten charges or less. Pretty sad considering the price.
What was that you said about the flexvolt batteries not powering the 20v tools in some manner?
Flexvolt batteries power 20V tools at 20V, not their 60V rating which some people get the impression it's using more than 20V somehow
@@TorqueTestChannel oh yeah of course. I would have assumed more performance due to parallel cells but I guess it wouldn't be any different than a 'normal' 6ah battery
What do you mean the felxvolt doesn't power 20 volt tools?
I've always had pouch batteries expand over time. You think they solved this issue?
They expand when overheated or shorted. Otherwise stay the same size, like the one in your phone. High discharge versions walk a finer line however.
@@TorqueTestChannel they also expand when sitting at roughly above 4v per cell for extended periods
@@masonkaye5 4v is quite nice for Li-Ion, 4.25 is the usual max charge voltage (no one stop the phone producers to exceed that and claim longer life per charge)
I can’t even afford the normal batteries