I have a just under $20k system. The three areas I found the most noticeable improvement over basic cables 1. Interconnects pre amp to power amps. 2. Power cable to pre amp 3. Power cable to DAC.
Agree with the interconnects. Always though speaker cables would be the most dramatic upgrade but in my system was interconnects. And was pretty shocked by the diference also in "digital" cables, and I mean HDMI I2S and RJ45 network cables. Funny enough, power cables is where I barely noticed any diference... but then again, I haven't bothered to go back to stock after burn in and they are lower end Supra cables.
@@renatomorais8136 same here on speaker cables, went from $250 to $1000 speaker cables, they look great but no sonic difference in my system. Perhaps the $250 Atlas Equator cables were remarkably good for the price.
@@rayh23a you are right, Ray. Depending on detail and precision of each system will provide the differences. After installed monsoon power cable Rotel pre amp to Panamax first track played frequencies under 80 Hz display bottomless beautiful, Richer signals. Became black or dark with an incredible smoothness . Clean power promotes clean sound. Cheers
Thanks for sharing. I own tube and solid state mono block amps. From my experience upgrading from standard power cable to Audioquest RNG-Y3, Z3, Monsoon for all components including 2 line conditioners. Its not about a musical value. Improve current delivery, reduce RF, noise dispersion interference. My system has a cleaner power delivery in soundstage width and depth with improved imaging accuracy. Nuances will vary per hifi system. Hope this helps. Cheers
Loved me some Prodigy when I was a middle schooler ; ) Lets get it straight for anyone weak of judgement in this matter; if your cables are of proper gauge and o2 free pure copper, your good. Your solid even! Theres better beyond of course, BUT NOT NECESSARY! If you have the means, go exotic, do it! Youll be glad for sure. if pure copper is the best you can do, dont lose any sleep. Your fine!
Really, the guy just spent 2 years testing cables. Makes a well produced documentary about it, detailing every aspect of it. And you couldn't even bother to watch it before spreading your falsehoods. Cables abesolutely make a difference and he just explained why from a mixing and mastering engeer's perspective and end users perspective.
@edwardbit8225 You just proved my point. You are just a troll that didn't watch a single thing about this video or a single thing I said. Go find another hobby besides trolling.
The reason there are not lots of graphs and measurements on cables is because cables react differently with different impedences. Each piece of audio has their own impedence characteristics. Stereophile magazine twice a year has a Recommended Components issue which ranks components by grade A+ to D, last time I read it. Where even Class D is well above average stuff. The issue does cover cables too, but they are not ranked in classes like the other gear because of the impedence interaction issue. Plus you can't measure probably the most important characteristic; clarity. Cable companies are not concerned at all with cable deniers and doubters, and don't feel any need to prove anything to them them.at all. They are a subset and they sound too Doubting Thomas and Cheap to ever satisfy anyway. They are a No Factor. Let them believe what they want to believe. They are not going to get that a great a sound quality anyway with what they use for equipment.
I have the iFi power cables and they aren’t as good as the power cables from GR-Research. So I recommend the GR-Research cables for anyone who doesn’t want to spend insane amounts on money but wants the best sound possible. Also one of biggest cable difference is between Cat6 network cables and fiber optical interconnects between source and DAC, which helps isolate network noise from causing jitter in the DAC. Going from Cat6 to fiber optical network cables made a difference. And finally I recommend the LessLoss Firewall for power cables and speaker cables, as it removes all the RF high frequency noise from the cables without killing the sound quality. You get blacker backgrounds and a more open soundstage.
I live in an apartment building and yes active power strips and shielded cables help a lot. Buzzes clicks and Hums disappeared. I would imagine if you had cleaner power it wouldn't matter as much. I am currently using ISO acoustics gear if anyone cares. Just make sure you can return them if they don't work for you.
You said this will be the first and last video you make about cables, but I notice on the table there are only power cables and interconnects, is there a reason why headphone/speaker cables are excluded?
@@latle111 a valid and quite an important point, the contention in the industries usually interconnecting power cables more than IEM cables which is a pretty much a fact now that everybody knows makes a significant amount of difference due to the impedance of the drivers In fact, due to the low impedance of IEMS, sometimes it can literally change the nature of the sound. Headphones depending on the driver makes a little bit of difference but perhaps both of these areas needed addressing in this long video, and my founding results have been pretty much on the same level as everything else, and it sort of fell by the wayside it didn’t seem as important
Yes, was expecting to hear about speaker cables and cables connecting headphones to their respective amps - So was a little sad that you didn’t cover it. Years ago, when I had a much more modest system and completely disbelieved spending a lot of money on speaker cables could be worth it, by local audio dealer (who I’ve known and trusted for >30 years) let me spend a few hours auditioning speaker cables ranging from a few £ per meter to about £100 per meter (that was well over 10 years ago). I was genuinely shocked at what I could hear, but for me and my then modest system I stopped at buying some £40-50 per meter speaker cables, which is where I found the diminishing returns getting too small (however that was on the dealer’s very high end system - not mine, so my choice was based on the best I was likely to get from what I had at home)
Yes, the channel predominantly concentrates on the hi-fi category, we have not touched speakers yet on this channel due to the fact that we have not had the space or the environment which I would not like to address speakers in unless I was satisfied with It will be coming next year, though
Love your videos, and this is one of the best. Thanks for spending the time to make this, very useful and I will look into those ifi cables for my system.
@@ConvinceMeAudio I think anyone with a good enough system/ears can hear the difference between cables, and I completely agree they they are more subtractive than additive. I have a reasonably high end headphone system, but haven't got decent enough cables yet, so this is of particular interest. What is going to be difficult is finding/trialing ones that synergise well with my gear though. More research is needed!
ALL cables make a difference, I've test many top of the range cables and ended up with Siltech single crown. I found that power cables make the biggest difference. Also NEVER mix cables, use the same brand and series at all times otherwise you just twist the sound.
You make a good point about degradation and it's something I often say when discussing the audio chain in general, since it applies to analog and digital. There is an ideal state, and the goal isnt to add, but to avoid loss.
Koji this is the video that I have been waiting for and the one we had been discussing about on your FB posts(it's me Giorgos always curious about your power cable setup). It is in my opinion the richest, most informative, analytical and complete video available on this matter 👏 Congratulations!
@@giorgosapo4508 ❤️🐅 the process was arduous, the testing was long, and there were a lot of placebo mood systems time of day that had to be eliminated in the whole process, 24 fricking months LOL
@ConvinceMeAudio The process was long and complex but you absolutely nailed it! It has to be the longest audio review ever? Like seriously it's a collection of experiences and knowledge for 2 whole freaking years!
@@giorgosapo4508 I think it might be on the channel you know. there was a lot to discuss and breaking it apart did not work, it is what it is in regards to its construction, I’m hoping at least it will convey some of the complexity in regards to cables and whether an arbitrary yes or no answer most of the time is not enough.
Great coverage of a tricky topic. Yes, cables make a difference. You can also make something like a Stromtank for a few hundred with a battery, charger and pure sine wave generator from Amazon for example. However, the biggest difference I experience was adding tubes. The Schiit Freya+ gives a taste of it - taking digital from sound to music. While the ModWright Analog Bridge really maximizes the effect with good tubes.
I’ve got a system which is has a retail value brushing up against $200k USD. I own cables ranging from $35 Mogami, up to $10k/pair metal-free carbon nanotube XLRs (Voodoo Labs in Germany). Cables absolutely make a difference. You don’t need to spend a fortune, but there are cables which do less harm than others, and others which seem to add bad characteristics to a system.
Once upon a time,a very well known emperor had an incredible wardrobe full of amazing clothes..... Today in our modern hifi world, it looks like he had many wifes and concubines and all the offsprings are hifi interconnect enthusiacs.😊
I've got the Supanova running into my DAC with an upgraded fuse as well. Compared to a stock power cable, the difference is unbelievable. I also have a shunyata venom v10 plugged into my iFi Phantom, and it's also made improvements over stock power cords. I also couldn't believe how much the a Belden 8402 made such big improvements over a generic XLR cable. Perhaps it's a lot more obvious in the changes when I'm listening to ultra revealing headphones such as the Stax SR-009 and 009S. If I change anything in the chain, those headphones will reveal it.
My friend has a standard Supanova and I let him borrow my one with the yellow fuse and he told me it further improved the clarity, detail and bass definition so further improvements can be made.
@@Leon-lg7zm I have been very comfortable with the standard Nova cables for the last 24 months, but they have made an actual leap with the Quazar and super Quaser irritating means having to upgrade, but I’m holding off right now
I'm a subjective guy on this (mostly) and, no, they dont (assuming we're comparing standard quality construction with proper shielding, etc). That's for interconnects. For AC power...oh lord no. The idea of a passive conductor producing an active response right before your power section that can be heard after it finishes filtering and converting that power is just silly.
Is there a surge protection that does not negatively impact sound quality? I have asked many dealers and producers of high end audio equipment and they all said no, nothing protects your gear when lightning hits your house, other than unplugging or really good insurance. If there is a solution to this issue, please share it, especially if it is applicable in a rental home. Thank you for your great work!
@@reinhard1888 I mean the ideal solution is to unplug But it depends what type of area you live in. We’ve had no such issues in London for the last 35 years, and UK is pretty decent for that, but that’s why I have three layers of protection from the cable to the power conditioner et cetera to make sure there are multiple barriers and if it jumps through all of those to be honest with you mate at that point there is no point worrying about it because nothing will protect it. And insurance is your best bet, but this seems to be working fine at the moment
Did nova cable helped reducing the hum/noise floor of the Red October? or do you recommended it for only high resolving AMPs & DACs like Rockna WD Sig. Also loves these types of videos like this one and your first impression of the Ideon dac, chatting and sharing experiences keep it up❤❤
@@solrq8349 Red October now Red October Excel, do benefit from decent cables because of the category and resolution they’re sitting at, but that transformer unfortunately not no difference whatsoever
I use to buy cables just to piss off my wife as she kept threating to leave me if I spent another penny on my audio setup. Then one day I came home from work to notice that everything and I mean EVERYTHING was gone. My wife finally left me but get this; she even took the ice trays from the fridge. What kind of a sick person takes the damn ice trays?!
@@heyguyslolGAMING I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh really hard or be extremely upset for you, I bloody hope she didn’t touch the audio stuff That’s indecent man
I nul tested my cables, no difference in the ones I bought, so I returned the expensive ones. When I bought extra cables, I bought the cheapest and there was a difference, I isolated the cables from other cables and the difference was gone.
@@audiobean I think it depends if you have a good enough conditioner or good enough home clean power, you should be okay with the stock, but for me personally I just use the basic nova from IFI that was pretty decent and it kept it consistent all the time without any weird sharp transience randomly throughout the day
@@ConvinceMeAudio Thanx! No conditioner, nothing. Home clean power, couldn't tell ! I can only say that there is no hum or any other disturbing noise present. Wouldn't the Hypsos filter everything out ?
@@audiobean in theory it should write?. and in theory most of this work should be done by the Transformers. but it looks like everything needs some kind of help along the way which is just bloody annoying If you ask my advice, I don’t recommend investing three or £400 in a power cable right now the difference that would make to a DAC for example or jumping from one headphone to another could be a bigger jump at this category
Thank you for this! Have you tried fuses upgrade? To my surprise, difference was clearly audible in Bliss KTE, upgrading from stock Red fuse to SR Pink.
@@alexandrlutsenko6733 my pleasure, glad you enjoyed it. Not yet, unless a company or a manufacturer sends a bunch in for assessment for a variety of equipment it’s impossible to do personally because it will set us back thousands of 1000s of pounds and I can’t justify or honestly afford that kind of testing you know how fuses are you know how fragile they are, and we need to eliminate a lot of placebo variations et cetera if a company is willing to send us a massive bunch I will definitely do a video.
@@alexandrlutsenko6733 to be honest with you on the channel we tend to review product above 10,000 on a regular basis more common than not, this is our area of testing, and the fact that these types of fuses and internals are not in there in the first place makes me very angry anyways
@@ConvinceMeAudio I feel you! For me it's kinda shame, to advertise Bliss KTE having advanced fuse and couple years later add SR Pink (Magna HF do this) as an extra paid option. This is not even speaking about Hi-End electronics having generic fuses. As for brands collaboration, for protocol, I`m not a related to Synergetic Research or their fanboy, but according to my speaking with their dealers, SR is the company who like to hear feedback about their products from community and experienced reviewers. May be it's an interesting opportunity for you to try, they have a lot`s of Hi-Fi/End "voodoo" to explore :)
Here's my view: If there is a debate as to whether a component category makes a difference at ALL in terms of sonics, then its not worth the expense of upgrading beyond a basic, competently constructed offering.
@ I have been in this hobby for about 20 years, so ive been down that road. But no one debates whether a $200 pair of speakers sounds different than s $2000 pair. Its clearly obvious differences exist, just a matter of which sound sig you prefer best. With cables, you can run double blind tests, objectively measure, etc, and still ot establish clear observable differences among cables. Personally thats all I really need to know...best to invest money in other aspects of the system. Just my approach and $.02
@@ajzepp8976 I've been a audio hobbyist for as long as you. Along my journey, I've made many personal discoveries, including those related to amplifiers, DACs, and yes, cables. All speakers sound different, and it's not just down to their relative cost or price. Some would say that a certain $200 pair sound better than a $2000 pair. You're right, it's usually "just a matter of which sound sig you prefer best." The point you make regarding whether "Its clearly obvious" of the differences hits to the heart of this subject since all people hear differently, or more precisely, have varying levels of listening discernment abilities. Some people just can't pick out subtle differences as well as others. Cables are perhaps the most contentious of all audio components, mostly because so many people are stubborn and ignorant... often unaware of what they don't know. The fact is, measurement rigs are not human ears, and some double blind tests "establish clear observable differences among cables." Superior build quality and a stronger warranty should also be considered, among other attributes. Without having directly compared your current cables with upscale ones, you are denying the chance to learn things for yourself. Listen to others' opinions - especially from those who also haven't heard things for themselves - is, quite frankly, _useless._ Perhaps you should open your mind - and ears - to the possibility of being proven wrong. All aspects of a system matter. Sometimes a cable upgrade can make all the difference. Personally, very low-gauge speaker cables and silver headphone cables took my system to the next level.
@@ajzepp8976 I've been a audio hobbyist for as long as you. Along my journey, I've made many personal discoveries, including those related to amplifiers, DACs, and yes, cables. All speakers sound different, and it's not just down to their relative cost or price. Some would say that a certain $200 pair sound better than a $2000 pair. You're right, it's usually "just a matter of which sound sig you prefer best." The point you make regarding whether "Its clearly obvious" of the differences hits to the heart of this subject since all people hear differently, or more precisely, have varying levels of listening discernment abilities. Some people just can't pick out subtle differences as well as others. Cables are perhaps the most contentious of all audio components, mostly because so many people are stubborn and ignorant... often unaware of what they don't know. The fact is, measurement rigs are not human ears, and some double blind tests "establish clear observable differences among cables." Superior build quality and a stronger warranty should also be considered, among other attributes. Without having directly compared your current cables with upscale ones, you are denying the chance to learn things for yourself. Listen to others' opinions - especially from those who also haven't heard things for themselves - is, quite frankly, _useless._ Perhaps you should open your mind - and ears - to the possibility of being proven wrong. All aspects of a system matter. Sometimes a cable upgrade can make all the difference. Personally, very low-gauge speaker cables and silver headphone cables took my system to the next level.
I understand the sciaence on mains cables but I found that you can make them up yourself for less than what some companies want for their version of the cable. I will question some prices for cables but I will have a peaceful life if I just walk away from these sellers.
@@fredericktennant9151 I will never say the prices are fair. I don’t care. it’s insane. Sadly, most people don’t have that capability, but to ask 5060 K for a cable no just know I don’t care not interested in why you’re asking that much But there are glasses and sunglasses that cost $40,000 on Beverly Hills what can you do? Maybe at least the cables will help your $1 million system a little bit. I don’t think the sunglasses do though. 😂
My daughters cat wrecked one of my Deep Cryo Treated Mogami 3104 speaker cables. A friend lent me a pair of AliExpress knock off Kimber Kables. The Ali Express are much sharper in the treble. Almost sibilant. My Soundstage depth and layering fell flat and I lost some Soundstage height. Micro details with the imaging between the instruments is gone as well. Their banana plugs don't have a tight grip in the binding posts either.
Most of the cables in my system are $40 from Aliexpress, always 7-12N OCC, but the Shunyata rep lent me a Venom-X XLR to try, and my gear ($17,000) totally changed: space between instruments, clear positioning in the soundstage, clearer soundstage, more natural voices and timbres, so I called him the next day and happily paid the $1000 the cable was worth.
I unfortunately have spent more then 5% on my cables. I have a dedicated listening room with acoustic treatment, also using convolution as a final touch. I certainly can hear a difference with cables....but its definitely not always related to price. It also depends on the components you are using, and how they each respond to the cables uniquely. On top of that, you have system synergy....which will ultimately dictate if the difference in sound is favorable or not. If you cant hear a difference with cables....not sure what to say. I envy you i guess. Buy some well made cables, and be done with it....and don't experiment, im warning you 😜
@@mikehuntington4440 🐅 at least you can say it’s there forever LOL I do tend to go a bit personally subjectively about 5% for myself sometimes 10 it just depends, but I rarely ever get to listen to my own system these days there’s just no time sadly It depends on the system you have like I stated in the video resolvability of the high-end everything comes into play
If you have pet ferrets that chew your cables you should only replace them with inexpensive cables because they might do it again. I just have a cat who doesn’t chew cables but he threw up on my Hypnos and Oor. 😼
Great video. I haven’t gone down the cable road because I was wondering the changes I had made I couldn’t hear. Thinking it was perhaps my senior hearing. I don’t have a high end system but I would say nice components. Lyngdorf, PS Audio dac, ATC SCM 7 speakers and Focal Utopia headphones and Clear Audio Turntable. I found right length an important selection criteria.
Thanks for the video, some really valuable information here and it also helps put my mind at ease. I'm gonna stop worrying about weather or not I should invest in better USB Cables or power at the moment considering my system is Mid-Fi level only.
Great video. WIsh it was 2 hours long. I just have 1 very small disagreement with you. As someone who has tested different cables and using my own ears, I find it very surprising that you say the improvement is only 1% in most cases. I've had cables that made the system sound flat, totally killing the dimensionality of the sound, making the music lifeless. I'm just really surprised by your 1% comment. Thanks for making a great video though.
@@latle111 if they foundational cables in this category are good, the difference it makes is very subtle. It’s usually bringing everything alive or relaxing or clarifying, it’s a very little gain to be had at such significant prices. Let’s take the ALBEDO $10,000 cables for example, adding $10,000 to your amplifier or your DAC or your transducers will give you a significantly bigger boost than interject in this cable into that similar system and hoping for the same results In fact, so much bigger, I don’t think you can quantify it in comparison
The 1% estimate is ridiculously low. I've heard cables make 40 to 50% improvement. I've heard cables make an obvious improvement even from another room, than the room where the stereo is. That's not just a 1% improvement! This guy needs to be told that you probably wouldn't hear a 1% improvement if you were sitting right in front of your stereo, on the day where you had the best focus of your life., . Even 3% is pushing it. it.Hard to hear that little too. Maybe his estimate is like what they say on maps; 1/2 inch equals 100 miles. Maybe his 1% equals 25% or 50%. By saying that cables that expensive only make a 1% improvement, that turns people off to cables as much as saying that there is no difference. Who's going to pay all that money for 1%? Virtually no one.Do not take this man's estimate as Bible. Actually it is very hard to put a percent on it. A cable that results in a whole new listening experience (not just tonality), I give it around 25 to 30%. I ask myself how many of those would it take to double my sound quality? I modify equipment and believe me, I do not ever need to spend money upgrading. My sound is where I want it; but I will do some further exploring by doing my mods.
@@sidesup8286 this guy has a name LOL, and seen as our top of the line system at CMA is $180,000, yeah we get the best of the best to make sure the yields are correct, you will not get 25% out of a cable what are you talking about? LOL? That’s insane. It will never happen. At the categories we test $50,000 DAC, $30,000 amplifiers, et cetera, you are fighting for the last 10% and if you cable is making 2% difference that’s already an enormous difference at that level. I don’t think you have a clue what you’re talking about, bud.
I DO know what I am doing and saying and YOU Don't! ..It's been common knowledge in the audio industry for over 60 years that 1% improvements are too small to be audible by even the most astute listeners. They can either believe you or they can believe all the top designers, pioneers & evaluators in the history of audio like Henry Kloss, J.Gordon Holt, Harry Pearson, John Curl, Robert E. Greene, Bert Whyte, Matti Otala, Mark Levinson, A.J. Van Den Hul, Bacomb King etc.Saul Marantz, etc. Maybe you think you are smarter than all those legends; but I think not. A 1% improvement you (figuratively speaking), would need a microscope to hear and I kind of doubt if you yourself would be able to reliably hear even a 10% or 15% improvement. I am one of the best modders on the planet Earth, and in my mods it is very important for me to be able to detect differences as little as 3%. If I think I hear a 3% improvement and it is realky a 3% degradation, and I repeat the same thing ten times on the circuit board; then instead of moving forward 30% I would be moving backward 30%. I have infinitely more experience at putting percentages on things than you; I am sure. And yes, there are cables that can make 20, 30, 40 and even around 50% improvements. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. You are the one who does not.
That doesn't even make sense. It should be precisely 3.45% of the system value not including state taxes but including environmental taxes and then times that figure by 1.23% of the annual EBITDA of each manufacturer whose components make up the system when listening to frequencies under 9969 Hz. Frequencies above use a different formula obviously.
With a headphone system I think you should spend roughly the same amount on your cables and accessories in total as you spend on your headphones, for example: if you were to have a system like Sennheiser/DROP HD6XX with Woo Audio Fireflies, then I would recommend something like an Audioquest Carbon USB with a Jitterbug and the rest of the cables stock. With a speaker system you would spend more like 50-100% the cost of your speakers on your cables and accessories because speakers can cost much more at the ultrahigh end.
For me, cables DO MATTER but the value proposition is absolutely AWFUL... When cables are priced at the same level as a Honda large SUV, I begin to wonder...
@@ptg01 the price hike no point talking about price the performance ratio really but the price hike on them? Goes beyond silly. Seen as half a kilo of solid gold costs less LOL
Hi Koji, I'm happy to see a cable review like this on here. Thought i'd explain some stuff below with what i've learned from my experiences. I hope this boosts knowledge further in this department for viewers as it really is overlooked and the majority of cable manufacturers do not help at all. They tend to not fully understand the science behind it or make claims that are untrue and mislead the community. Please feel free to pin this comment to the video if you find this helpful (Sorry for how long it is, I tried to make it as short as possible but this conversation can get quite extensive!!!). I've pretty much spent the last 5 years finding scientific evidence on cables and other "tweaks" and a large majority of this data isn't easy to find on the internet. But all of the differences on some products are very real believe me. Cables can make a huge difference when chosen correctly. Another interesting thing which many people don't know is that cables per say do not have a sound signature. If you measure a system after any cable change, the frequency response is always the same which leads people to believe they make no difference which is completely fair. But as it changes the sound, people would assume even though its not measurable, its changing the FR, I can confirm that this is false. What they are actually changing is the noise in certain frequency bands, distortion, voltage response in some aspects (dialetric related). This is all without any fancy tech. Now if companies start adding tech then it can get interesting. Considering all of the information above, because of how your brain determines sound based on harmonic information, all of those aspects can makes a huge difference in cables. If a design is done properly, it makes it dramatically less challenging for your brain to decipher what is what. A closer scenario I can think of, is Rob at Chord's explanations in relation to DACs. A similar comparison I use for explaining to people who aren't familiar, is that a lot of R2R dacs have issues with switching fast enough which increases noise, distortion, creates phase issues, make bass lack in texture etc compared to a properly designed dac based around an FPGA. The same thing happens in cables to some degree as the littlest of things effect how your brain perceives sound. Another thing I see online is "cable matching" or "cable pairing" which is really misleading. The reason that cables sound different is because they either have more issues or less issues than others. Some people for example may look in a certain price range and pick out 2 sets of cables that cost 1k each. It may be implied that one cable is better for certain types of systems which doesn't tend to be true. There are very few examples I can think of where this would be a true statement. Cables and "tweaks" can make such a difference once you understand and know what to look for in products. I have thousands of lines of information on this topic compiled for use in my private system building business. I tend to mainly focus on studio hardware advisor roles assisting companies and target mainly hard core mastering engineers to get improved or best results out of a system or recording room. Essentially this is reducing noise, distortion and reducing potential latency in hardware and making sure it is as optimised as possible within budget. This is more crucial to get right in these types of environments, because after every upgrade with cables or tweaks, the frequency response to your ears (distortion and noise characterists) will either get sharper or softer depending on where your setup is already at. This effects the ability to be able to record, mix and master as accurately as possible. Without proper cables or tweaks, it is practically impossible to perfectly level an instrument track, judge dynamics & reverb. A major problem is that you can't truthfully hear what compressors are doing when in use. I will probably start branching off to HIFI once my new site is ready. I see a lot of HIFI Systems that are more accurate or revealing than mixing and mastering systems nowadays so it would be a great help. Discord User ID 657929753323634709 Instagram - eqaudioconfigurations email - eqaenquiries@elysianquantumaudio.uk
@@ElysianQA it’s extremely nuanced and complicated, even after 24 months I think I’m still discovering new things, because we have systems here where there were no differences between the various flagship cables including tonal change, but on others it was so apparent it shifted the tonality And this is impossible to AB sadly, it’s a long argue process that takes months and months, and people on the Internet usually want an immediate answer black or white yes or no
@@ConvinceMeAudio Agreed, it is possibly the most complicated topic in audio for sure. I am still learning new things each year as tech and research keeps on advancing so i'm constantly documenting data. If I were to guess why you didn't hear changes on more flagship equipment, they tend to have galvanically isolated outputs (when products mentioned galvanic isolation, it is usually just done on inputs and outputs are quite rare). If outputs are isolated on DACs, this reduces the effects of analogue cables in most scenarios other than distortion and dielectric. It would be audible but no where near in comparison to a dac without galvanically isolated outputs. It would just sound clearer with the best designs you can get under those circumstances. 2 Specific brands come to mind where they make some power cables that would be audible no matter how good your electronics are. But Powercables in audio are the most important cable to get right overall. The lack of A/B definitely makes this hard to get people to easily perceive these changes. But once you hear it you don't want to go back, that's my experience. I think once you are set on an answer, its hard to change someone's mind. I definitely did change someone's POV recently though I'm happy to say. I recently got one of my friends who's also into Audio to sit down and listen to my setup without "Cables and Tweaks". bearing in mind they are an engineer with multiple degrees and was told that these things should not make a difference during education. He enjoyed the setup without all of my additional items, said it was the best headphone system he had heard with Audeze LCD-4z and ZMF Verite Opens. I then added all of the tweaks and cables at once and he was in utter disbelief. He said that "the setup he just enjoyed, sounded embarrassing and 1/13th of the cost of what he'd guess without the cables and tweaks" He was that thrown off almost didn't believe they were making a difference. I told him to see for himself and purchase some items from a specific uk retailer I use who offer a 60 day money back guarantee on cables and tweaks. he has just spent roughly 10k on tweaks and 3k on cables (that he can claim back if he is not happy with) and he added all of them to his system one at a time and could notice them change the system each time. He has now stopped craving the need to upgrade and swap gear constantly since he learned its possible to greatly optimise like this. Makes more difference than upgrading hardware for sure once you focus on all areas that can be improved. 60 Days is long gone now and he has kept the items in his possession. I'll finish optimising my setup mid next year as I will have nothing else left to buy due to the peak of tech on the market currently. Can't wait! Contactable via Discord User ID 657929753323634709 Instagram - eqaudioconfigurations email - eqaenquiries@elysianquantumaudio.uk
@@danielshepherd2061 for an in-depth chat join our community over on the ambush of Tigers telegram group, all the information is on the Patreon page, and in the links in the description, that’s where the entire community hangs out and we speak via voice, et cetera 🐅❤️
@@adissabovic maybe I was referring to degradation LOL Write in the script as you’re talking sometimes you can come across a little retarded bear with me LOL
After all of bein gd reviewer but noobs of the equipment..Cables do make a different..1st Materials 2nd Number of wires 3rd Terminations 4rd...Do I've to do this principles towards noobs?...ha4 welcome noobers...Peace!
I have a just under $20k system. The three areas I found the most noticeable improvement over basic cables 1. Interconnects pre amp to power amps. 2. Power cable to pre amp 3. Power cable to DAC.
Agree with the interconnects. Always though speaker cables would be the most dramatic upgrade but in my system was interconnects. And was pretty shocked by the diference also in "digital" cables, and I mean HDMI I2S and RJ45 network cables. Funny enough, power cables is where I barely noticed any diference... but then again, I haven't bothered to go back to stock after burn in and they are lower end Supra cables.
@@renatomorais8136 same here on speaker cables, went from $250 to $1000 speaker cables, they look great but no sonic difference in my system. Perhaps the $250 Atlas Equator cables were remarkably good for the price.
If you do not hear the difference in your system just return it. Plain and simple.
@@rayh23a you are right, Ray. Depending on detail and precision of each system will provide the differences. After installed monsoon power cable Rotel pre amp to Panamax first track played frequencies under 80 Hz display bottomless beautiful, Richer signals. Became black or dark with an incredible smoothness . Clean power promotes clean sound.
Cheers
Thanks for sharing. I own tube and solid state mono block amps. From my experience upgrading from standard power cable to Audioquest RNG-Y3, Z3, Monsoon for all components including 2 line conditioners. Its not about a musical value. Improve current delivery, reduce RF, noise dispersion interference. My system has a cleaner power delivery in soundstage width and depth with improved imaging accuracy. Nuances will vary per hifi system.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Loved me some Prodigy when I was a middle schooler ; )
Lets get it straight for anyone weak of judgement in this matter; if your cables are of proper gauge and o2 free pure copper, your good. Your solid even! Theres better beyond of course, BUT NOT NECESSARY! If you have the means, go exotic, do it! Youll be glad for sure. if pure copper is the best you can do, dont lose any sleep. Your fine!
They don't help with sound, but help with the mood.
Really, the guy just spent 2 years testing cables. Makes a well produced documentary about it, detailing every aspect of it. And you couldn't even bother to watch it before spreading your falsehoods.
Cables abesolutely make a difference and he just explained why from a mixing and mastering engeer's perspective and end users perspective.
@@johnrus7661 measurements? none.cables make no difference except to your pocket.
@edwardbit8225 You just proved my point. You are just a troll that didn't watch a single thing about this video or a single thing I said.
Go find another hobby besides trolling.
I own three of those power cables and i can assure you they make a big difference and in my humble opinion they are an investment @@edwardbit8225
The reason there are not lots of graphs and measurements on cables is because cables react differently with different impedences. Each piece of audio has their own impedence characteristics. Stereophile magazine twice a year has a Recommended Components issue which ranks components by grade A+ to D, last time I read it. Where even Class D is well above average stuff. The issue does cover cables too, but they are not ranked in classes like the other gear because of the impedence interaction issue. Plus you can't measure probably the most important characteristic; clarity. Cable companies are not concerned at all with cable deniers and doubters, and don't feel any need to prove anything to them them.at all. They are a subset and they sound too Doubting Thomas and Cheap to ever satisfy anyway. They are a No Factor. Let them believe what they want to believe. They are not going to get that a great a sound quality anyway with what they use for equipment.
I have the iFi power cables and they aren’t as good as the power cables from GR-Research. So I recommend the GR-Research cables for anyone who doesn’t want to spend insane amounts on money but wants the best sound possible. Also one of biggest cable difference is between Cat6 network cables and fiber optical interconnects between source and DAC, which helps isolate network noise from causing jitter in the DAC. Going from Cat6 to fiber optical network cables made a difference. And finally I recommend the LessLoss Firewall for power cables and speaker cables, as it removes all the RF high frequency noise from the cables without killing the sound quality. You get blacker backgrounds and a more open soundstage.
I live in an apartment building and yes active power strips and shielded cables help a lot. Buzzes clicks and Hums disappeared. I would imagine if you had cleaner power it wouldn't matter as much. I am currently using ISO acoustics gear if anyone cares. Just make sure you can return them if they don't work for you.
@@matthewhilty4209 apartment complex, lots of properties lots of washing machines lots of coffee makers without a doubt. I am not surprised.
You said this will be the first and last video you make about cables, but I notice on the table there are only power cables and interconnects, is there a reason why headphone/speaker cables are excluded?
@@latle111 a valid and quite an important point, the contention in the industries usually interconnecting power cables more than IEM cables which is a pretty much a fact now that everybody knows makes a significant amount of difference due to the impedance of the drivers
In fact, due to the low impedance of IEMS, sometimes it can literally change the nature of the sound.
Headphones depending on the driver makes a little bit of difference but perhaps both of these areas needed addressing in this long video, and my founding results have been pretty much on the same level as everything else, and it sort of fell by the wayside it didn’t seem as important
Yes, was expecting to hear about speaker cables and cables connecting headphones to their respective amps - So was a little sad that you didn’t cover it. Years ago, when I had a much more modest system and completely disbelieved spending a lot of money on speaker cables could be worth it, by local audio dealer (who I’ve known and trusted for >30 years) let me spend a few hours auditioning speaker cables ranging from a few £ per meter to about £100 per meter (that was well over 10 years ago). I was genuinely shocked at what I could hear, but for me and my then modest system I stopped at buying some £40-50 per meter speaker cables, which is where I found the diminishing returns getting too small (however that was on the dealer’s very high end system - not mine, so my choice was based on the best I was likely to get from what I had at home)
Yes, the channel predominantly concentrates on the hi-fi category, we have not touched speakers yet on this channel due to the fact that we have not had the space or the environment which I would not like to address speakers in unless I was satisfied with
It will be coming next year, though
Love your videos, and this is one of the best. Thanks for spending the time to make this, very useful and I will look into those ifi cables for my system.
@@ianhps3 appreciate the kind words, gratifying that the video was received the way I wanted it to be, you know how cables are and the narrative
@@ConvinceMeAudio I think anyone with a good enough system/ears can hear the difference between cables, and I completely agree they they are more subtractive than additive. I have a reasonably high end headphone system, but haven't got decent enough cables yet, so this is of particular interest. What is going to be difficult is finding/trialing ones that synergise well with my gear though. More research is needed!
ALL cables make a difference, I've test many top of the range cables and ended up with Siltech single crown. I found that power cables make the biggest difference. Also NEVER mix cables, use the same brand and series at all times otherwise you just twist the sound.
You make a good point about degradation and it's something I often say when discussing the audio chain in general, since it applies to analog and digital. There is an ideal state, and the goal isnt to add, but to avoid loss.
exactly
Koji this is the video that I have been waiting for and the one we had been discussing about on your FB posts(it's me Giorgos always curious about your power cable setup). It is in my opinion the richest, most informative, analytical and complete video available on this matter 👏 Congratulations!
@@giorgosapo4508 ❤️🐅 the process was arduous, the testing was long, and there were a lot of placebo mood systems time of day that had to be eliminated in the whole process, 24 fricking months LOL
@ConvinceMeAudio The process was long and complex but you absolutely nailed it! It has to be the longest audio review ever? Like seriously it's a collection of experiences and knowledge for 2 whole freaking years!
@@giorgosapo4508 I think it might be on the channel you know. there was a lot to discuss and breaking it apart did not work, it is what it is in regards to its construction, I’m hoping at least it will convey some of the complexity in regards to cables and whether an arbitrary yes or no answer most of the time is not enough.
Great coverage of a tricky topic. Yes, cables make a difference. You can also make something like a Stromtank for a few hundred with a battery, charger and pure sine wave generator from Amazon for example. However, the biggest difference I experience was adding tubes. The Schiit Freya+ gives a taste of it - taking digital from sound to music. While the ModWright Analog Bridge really maximizes the effect with good tubes.
@@phantomplastics6582 tubes, the saving grace for Delta Sigma, to bring that analog back
I’ve got a system which is has a retail value brushing up against $200k USD. I own cables ranging from $35 Mogami, up to $10k/pair metal-free carbon nanotube XLRs (Voodoo Labs in Germany). Cables absolutely make a difference. You don’t need to spend a fortune, but there are cables which do less harm than others, and others which seem to add bad characteristics to a system.
Once upon a time,a very well known emperor had an incredible wardrobe full of amazing clothes.....
Today in our modern hifi world, it looks like he had many wifes and concubines and all the offsprings are hifi interconnect enthusiacs.😊
I've got the Supanova running into my DAC with an upgraded fuse as well. Compared to a stock power cable, the difference is unbelievable. I also have a shunyata venom v10 plugged into my iFi Phantom, and it's also made improvements over stock power cords. I also couldn't believe how much the a Belden 8402 made such big improvements over a generic XLR cable.
Perhaps it's a lot more obvious in the changes when I'm listening to ultra revealing headphones such as the Stax SR-009 and 009S. If I change anything in the chain, those headphones will reveal it.
@@Leon-lg7zm I must admit I am genuinely surprised by the super Quazar cables for the power amps. The difference is night and day.
My friend has a standard Supanova and I let him borrow my one with the yellow fuse and he told me it further improved the clarity, detail and bass definition so further improvements can be made.
@@Leon-lg7zm I have been very comfortable with the standard Nova cables for the last 24 months, but they have made an actual leap with the Quazar and super Quaser irritating means having to upgrade, but I’m holding off right now
@@ConvinceMeAudio Apparently the Supanova is an upgrade over the Nova but I have yet to hear the Nova. I am also comfortable with my current cables.
I'm a subjective guy on this (mostly) and, no, they dont (assuming we're comparing standard quality construction with proper shielding, etc). That's for interconnects. For AC power...oh lord no. The idea of a passive conductor producing an active response right before your power section that can be heard after it finishes filtering and converting that power is just silly.
Nice video, man. Thanks for your work.
Is there a surge protection that does not negatively impact sound quality?
I have asked many dealers and producers of high end audio equipment and they all said no, nothing protects your gear when lightning hits your house, other than unplugging or really good insurance.
If there is a solution to this issue, please share it, especially if it is applicable in a rental home.
Thank you for your great work!
@@reinhard1888 I mean the ideal solution is to unplug
But it depends what type of area you live in. We’ve had no such issues in London for the last 35 years, and UK is pretty decent for that, but that’s why I have three layers of protection from the cable to the power conditioner et cetera to make sure there are multiple barriers and if it jumps through all of those to be honest with you mate at that point there is no point worrying about it because nothing will protect it.
And insurance is your best bet, but this seems to be working fine at the moment
Quality cables are definitely nice.
But there should be some price limit, so that one does not spend on nonsense.
Did nova cable helped reducing the hum/noise floor of the Red October? or do you recommended it for only high resolving AMPs & DACs like Rockna WD Sig. Also loves these types of videos like this one and your first impression of the Ideon dac, chatting and sharing experiences keep it up❤❤
@@solrq8349 Red October now Red October Excel, do benefit from decent cables because of the category and resolution they’re sitting at, but that transformer unfortunately not no difference whatsoever
Yes. I used MIT MH750 cables, which have a build in network’ to tame my b&w p6 speakers. Also love the old audio quest diamond cables.
I use to buy cables just to piss off my wife as she kept threating to leave me if I spent another penny on my audio setup. Then one day I came home from work to notice that everything and I mean EVERYTHING was gone. My wife finally left me but get this; she even took the ice trays from the fridge. What kind of a sick person takes the damn ice trays?!
@@heyguyslolGAMING I genuinely don’t know whether to laugh really hard or be extremely upset for you, I bloody hope she didn’t touch the audio stuff
That’s indecent man
This is true ?
It's a true lie 😂
True lies quote?
@@Hazuki_ch Yes sir, fitting isn't it? A TRUE LIE...
The signal travels in the Space, outside of the conductor.
I nul tested my cables, no difference in the ones I bought, so I returned the expensive ones. When I bought extra cables, I bought the cheapest and there was a difference, I isolated the cables from other cables and the difference was gone.
Yes, they do make a difference. No, you should never empty your bank account for toys.
Nice video, thanks ! Would you invest in a upgraded power cable to feed the Ferrum Hypsos, or does the Hypsos already do all the work ?
@@audiobean I think it depends if you have a good enough conditioner or good enough home clean power, you should be okay with the stock, but for me personally I just use the basic nova from IFI that was pretty decent and it kept it consistent all the time without any weird sharp transience randomly throughout the day
@@ConvinceMeAudio Thanx! No conditioner, nothing. Home clean power, couldn't tell ! I can only say that there is no hum or any other disturbing noise present. Wouldn't the Hypsos filter everything out ?
@@audiobean in theory it should write?. and in theory most of this work should be done by the Transformers. but it looks like everything needs some kind of help along the way which is just bloody annoying
If you ask my advice, I don’t recommend investing three or £400 in a power cable right now the difference that would make to a DAC for example or jumping from one headphone to another could be a bigger jump at this category
It's all about value. How much better is it versus the difference in price and are you willing to pay it?
Unfortunately in this hobby price does not always match performance.A well made pro cable is all you need.
Thank you for this! Have you tried fuses upgrade? To my surprise, difference was clearly audible in Bliss KTE, upgrading from stock Red fuse to SR Pink.
@@alexandrlutsenko6733 my pleasure, glad you enjoyed it. Not yet, unless a company or a manufacturer sends a bunch in for assessment for a variety of equipment it’s impossible to do personally because it will set us back thousands of 1000s of pounds and I can’t justify or honestly afford that kind of testing you know how fuses are you know how fragile they are, and we need to eliminate a lot of placebo variations et cetera if a company is willing to send us a massive bunch I will definitely do a video.
@@alexandrlutsenko6733 to be honest with you on the channel we tend to review product above 10,000 on a regular basis more common than not, this is our area of testing, and the fact that these types of fuses and internals are not in there in the first place makes me very angry anyways
@@ConvinceMeAudio I feel you! For me it's kinda shame, to advertise Bliss KTE having advanced fuse and couple years later add SR Pink (Magna HF do this) as an extra paid option. This is not even speaking about Hi-End electronics having generic fuses.
As for brands collaboration, for protocol, I`m not a related to Synergetic Research or their fanboy, but according to my speaking with their dealers, SR is the company who like to hear feedback about their products from community and experienced reviewers. May be it's an interesting opportunity for you to try, they have a lot`s of Hi-Fi/End "voodoo" to explore :)
Is that an Ultrasone headphone on the desk?
@@chungang7037 there is a pare here
Here's my view: If there is a debate as to whether a component category makes a difference at ALL in terms of sonics, then its not worth the expense of upgrading beyond a basic, competently constructed offering.
I suggest ignoring the 'debate' and discover for yourself the possible benefits of select upscale cables in a direct comparison.
@ I have been in this hobby for about 20 years, so ive been down that road. But no one debates whether a $200 pair of speakers sounds different than s $2000 pair. Its clearly obvious differences exist, just a matter of which sound sig you prefer best. With cables, you can run double blind tests, objectively measure, etc, and still ot establish clear observable differences among cables. Personally thats all I really need to know...best to invest money in other aspects of the system. Just my approach and $.02
@@ajzepp8976 I've been a audio hobbyist for as long as you. Along my journey, I've made many personal discoveries, including those related to amplifiers, DACs, and yes, cables.
All speakers sound different, and it's not just down to their relative cost or price. Some would say that a certain $200 pair sound better than a $2000 pair. You're right, it's usually "just a matter of which sound sig you prefer best."
The point you make regarding whether "Its clearly obvious" of the differences hits to the heart of this subject since all people hear differently, or more precisely, have varying levels of listening discernment abilities. Some people just can't pick out subtle differences as well as others.
Cables are perhaps the most contentious of all audio components, mostly because so many people are stubborn and ignorant... often unaware of what they don't know.
The fact is, measurement rigs are not human ears, and some double blind tests "establish clear observable differences among cables." Superior build quality and a stronger warranty should also be considered, among other attributes.
Without having directly compared your current cables with upscale ones, you are denying the chance to learn things for yourself. Listen to others' opinions - especially from those who also haven't heard things for themselves - is, quite frankly, _useless._
Perhaps you should open your mind - and ears - to the possibility of being proven wrong. All aspects of a system matter. Sometimes a cable upgrade can make all the difference. Personally, very low-gauge speaker cables and silver headphone cables took my system to the next level.
@@ajzepp8976 I've been a audio hobbyist for as long as you. Along my journey, I've made many personal discoveries, including those related to amplifiers, DACs, and yes, cables.
All speakers sound different, and it's not just down to their relative cost or price. Some would say that a certain $200 pair sound better than a $2000 pair. You're right, it's usually "just a matter of which sound sig you prefer best."
The point you make regarding whether "Its clearly obvious" of the differences hits to the heart of this subject since all people hear differently, or more precisely, have varying levels of listening discernment abilities. Some people just can't pick out subtle differences as well as others.
Cables are perhaps the most contentious of all audio components, mostly because so many people are stubborn and ignorant... often unaware of what they don't know.
The fact is, measurement rigs are not human ears, and some double blind tests "establish clear observable differences among cables." Superior build quality and a stronger warranty should also be considered, among other attributes.
Without having directly compared your current cables with upscale ones, you are denying the chance to learn things for yourself. Listen to others' opinions - especially from those who also haven't heard things for themselves - is, quite frankly, _useless._
Perhaps you should open your mind - and ears - to the possibility of being proven wrong. All aspects of a system matter. Sometimes a cable upgrade can make all the difference. Personally, very low-gauge speaker cables and silver headphone cables took my system to the next level.
I know thats out of context but when will you upload your review about raal immanis?
I understand the sciaence on mains cables but I found that you can make them up yourself for less than what some companies want for their version of the cable. I will question some prices for cables but I will have a peaceful life if I just walk away from these sellers.
@@fredericktennant9151 I will never say the prices are fair. I don’t care. it’s insane.
Sadly, most people don’t have that capability, but to ask 5060 K for a cable no just know I don’t care not interested in why you’re asking that much
But there are glasses and sunglasses that cost $40,000 on Beverly Hills what can you do?
Maybe at least the cables will help your $1 million system a little bit. I don’t think the sunglasses do though. 😂
@@ConvinceMeAudio Just a thought are you blind? there is something about the way you touch the cables that had me wondering
@@fredericktennant9151 yes lost my site about 30 years ago, bud
@@ConvinceMeAudio,do you get help from staffing on your audiophile selection or do you arrange and select,assess,assemble everything 😊.
@@gg.6967 no bud
just me, everything gets done in the office by yours truly
My daughters cat wrecked one of my Deep Cryo Treated Mogami 3104 speaker cables. A friend lent me a pair of AliExpress knock off Kimber Kables. The Ali Express are much sharper in the treble. Almost sibilant. My Soundstage depth and layering fell flat and I lost some Soundstage height. Micro details with the imaging between the instruments is gone as well. Their banana plugs don't have a tight grip in the binding posts either.
For digital I think if you have something like a DDC or DDC that galvanically isolates and corrects for jitter the cable will make no difference.
@@G3rain1 yes, we use the ideon audio time absolute
Most of the cables in my system are $40 from Aliexpress, always 7-12N OCC, but the Shunyata rep lent me a Venom-X XLR to try, and my gear ($17,000) totally changed: space between instruments, clear positioning in the soundstage, clearer soundstage, more natural voices and timbres, so I called him the next day and happily paid the $1000 the cable was worth.
I've had the same experience with cables. Cables make a difference, but need to be tuned to your system.
Nice watch btw :)
@@ivandubov2537 🐅❤️
The iFi cables have active filter circuits.
I unfortunately have spent more then 5% on my cables. I have a dedicated listening room with acoustic treatment, also using convolution as a final touch. I certainly can hear a difference with cables....but its definitely not always related to price.
It also depends on the components you are using, and how they each respond to the cables uniquely. On top of that, you have system synergy....which will ultimately dictate if the difference in sound is favorable or not.
If you cant hear a difference with cables....not sure what to say. I envy you i guess. Buy some well made cables, and be done with it....and don't experiment, im warning you 😜
@@mikehuntington4440 🐅 at least you can say it’s there forever LOL I do tend to go a bit personally subjectively about 5% for myself sometimes 10 it just depends, but I rarely ever get to listen to my own system these days there’s just no time sadly
It depends on the system you have like I stated in the video resolvability of the high-end everything comes into play
If you have pet ferrets that chew your cables you should only replace them with inexpensive cables because they might do it again. I just have a cat who doesn’t chew cables but he threw up on my Hypnos and Oor. 😼
Great video. I haven’t gone down the cable road because I was wondering the changes I had made I couldn’t hear. Thinking it was perhaps my senior hearing. I don’t have a high end system but I would say nice components. Lyngdorf, PS Audio dac, ATC SCM 7 speakers and Focal Utopia headphones and Clear Audio Turntable. I found right length an important selection criteria.
Have someone who can swap the cables for you without you knowing which cable is being used. That is how I did it.
Thanks for the video, some really valuable information here and it also helps put my mind at ease. I'm gonna stop worrying about weather or not I should invest in better USB Cables or power at the moment considering my system is Mid-Fi level only.
Great video. WIsh it was 2 hours long.
I just have 1 very small disagreement with you. As someone who has tested different cables and using my own ears, I find it very surprising that you say the improvement is only 1% in most cases.
I've had cables that made the system sound flat, totally killing the dimensionality of the sound, making the music lifeless. I'm just really surprised by your 1% comment. Thanks for making a great video though.
@@latle111 if they foundational cables in this category are good, the difference it makes is very subtle. It’s usually bringing everything alive or relaxing or clarifying, it’s a very little gain to be had at such significant prices.
Let’s take the ALBEDO $10,000 cables for example, adding $10,000 to your amplifier or your DAC or your transducers will give you a significantly bigger boost than interject in this cable into that similar system and hoping for the same results
In fact, so much bigger, I don’t think you can quantify it in comparison
The 1% estimate is ridiculously low. I've heard cables make 40 to 50% improvement. I've heard cables make an obvious improvement even from another room, than the room where the stereo is. That's not just a 1% improvement! This guy needs to be told that you probably wouldn't hear a 1% improvement if you were sitting right in front of your stereo, on the day where you had the best focus of your life., . Even 3% is pushing it. it.Hard to hear that little too. Maybe his estimate is like what they say on maps; 1/2 inch equals 100 miles. Maybe his 1% equals 25% or 50%. By saying that cables that expensive only make a 1% improvement, that turns people off to cables as much as saying that there is no difference. Who's going to pay all that money for 1%? Virtually no one.Do not take this man's estimate as Bible. Actually it is very hard to put a percent on it. A cable that results in a whole new listening experience (not just tonality), I give it around 25 to 30%. I ask myself how many of those would it take to double my sound quality? I modify equipment and believe me, I do not ever need to spend money upgrading. My sound is where I want it; but I will do some further exploring by doing my mods.
@@sidesup8286 this guy has a name LOL, and seen as our top of the line system at CMA is $180,000, yeah we get the best of the best to make sure the yields are correct, you will not get 25% out of a cable what are you talking about? LOL? That’s insane. It will never happen.
At the categories we test $50,000 DAC, $30,000 amplifiers, et cetera, you are fighting for the last 10% and if you cable is making 2% difference that’s already an enormous difference at that level. I don’t think you have a clue what you’re talking about, bud.
I DO know what I am doing and saying and YOU Don't! ..It's been common knowledge in the audio industry for over 60 years that 1% improvements are too small to be audible by even the most astute listeners. They can either believe you or they can believe all the top designers, pioneers & evaluators in the history of audio like Henry Kloss, J.Gordon Holt, Harry Pearson, John Curl, Robert E. Greene, Bert Whyte, Matti Otala, Mark Levinson, A.J. Van Den Hul, Bacomb King etc.Saul Marantz, etc. Maybe you think you are smarter than all those legends; but I think not. A 1% improvement you (figuratively speaking), would need a microscope to hear and I kind of doubt if you yourself would be able to reliably hear even a 10% or 15% improvement. I am one of the best modders on the planet Earth, and in my mods it is very important for me to be able to detect differences as little as 3%. If I think I hear a 3% improvement and it is realky a 3% degradation, and I repeat the same thing ten times on the circuit board; then instead of moving forward 30% I would be moving backward 30%. I have infinitely more experience at putting percentages on things than you; I am sure. And yes, there are cables that can make 20, 30, 40 and even around 50% improvements. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. You are the one who does not.
@@sidesup8286 okay, keep on trucking dude all the best to you
There is a rule: all cabeling in the system shoud costs 3 to 5% of the whole system value.
@@krzysztofs3t532 as a rule I tend to stick with this too, 10% if I’m being generous
This rule was certainly made up by a salesman.
That doesn't even make sense. It should be precisely 3.45% of the system value not including state taxes but including environmental taxes and then times that figure by 1.23% of the annual EBITDA of each manufacturer whose components make up the system when listening to frequencies under 9969 Hz. Frequencies above use a different formula obviously.
No.
Idgaf it's audio jewelry and I love looking at them, looks like a bed of snakes behind my system 😂
OMG!! Bank account emptying audiofoolery to the extreme! Just wow!!!... Btw the earth is flat in case you don't know...
of course it is flat... and placed on a ball ;)
@gietece lol
@@gieteceNot on a ball, flat and then wrapped around a ball.
my friend it is turtles all the way down!
@@PhotographyInFlight4183 that's what i ment, my bad
With a headphone system I think you should spend roughly the same amount on your cables and accessories in total as you spend on your headphones, for example: if you were to have a system like Sennheiser/DROP HD6XX with Woo Audio Fireflies, then I would recommend something like an Audioquest Carbon USB with a Jitterbug and the rest of the cables stock. With a speaker system you would spend more like 50-100% the cost of your speakers on your cables and accessories because speakers can cost much more at the ultrahigh end.
For me, cables DO MATTER but the value proposition is absolutely AWFUL... When cables are priced at the same level as a Honda large SUV, I begin to wonder...
@@ptg01 the price hike no point talking about price the performance ratio really but the price hike on them? Goes beyond silly.
Seen as half a kilo of solid gold costs less LOL
Hi Koji,
I'm happy to see a cable review like this on here. Thought i'd explain some stuff below with what i've learned from my experiences. I hope this boosts knowledge further in this department for viewers as it really is overlooked and the majority of cable manufacturers do not help at all. They tend to not fully understand the science behind it or make claims that are untrue and mislead the community.
Please feel free to pin this comment to the video if you find this helpful (Sorry for how long it is, I tried to make it as short as possible but this conversation can get quite extensive!!!).
I've pretty much spent the last 5 years finding scientific evidence on cables and other "tweaks" and a large majority of this data isn't easy to find on the internet. But all of the differences on some products are very real believe me.
Cables can make a huge difference when chosen correctly. Another interesting thing which many people don't know is that cables per say do not have a sound signature. If you measure a system after any cable change, the frequency response is always the same which leads people to believe they make no difference which is completely fair. But as it changes the sound, people would assume even though its not measurable, its changing the FR, I can confirm that this is false.
What they are actually changing is the noise in certain frequency bands, distortion, voltage response in some aspects (dialetric related). This is all without any fancy tech. Now if companies start adding tech then it can get interesting. Considering all of the information above, because of how your brain determines sound based on harmonic information, all of those aspects can makes a huge difference in cables. If a design is done properly, it makes it dramatically less challenging for your brain to decipher what is what.
A closer scenario I can think of, is Rob at Chord's explanations in relation to DACs. A similar comparison I use for explaining to people who aren't familiar, is that a lot of R2R dacs have issues with switching fast enough which increases noise, distortion, creates phase issues, make bass lack in texture etc compared to a properly designed dac based around an FPGA. The same thing happens in cables to some degree as the littlest of things effect how your brain perceives sound.
Another thing I see online is "cable matching" or "cable pairing" which is really misleading. The reason that cables sound different is because they either have more issues or less issues than others. Some people for example may look in a certain price range and pick out 2 sets of cables that cost 1k each. It may be implied that one cable is better for certain types of systems which doesn't tend to be true. There are very few examples I can think of where this would be a true statement.
Cables and "tweaks" can make such a difference once you understand and know what to look for in products. I have thousands of lines of information on this topic compiled for use in my private system building business. I tend to mainly focus on studio hardware advisor roles assisting companies and target mainly hard core mastering engineers to get improved or best results out of a system or recording room. Essentially this is reducing noise, distortion and reducing potential latency in hardware and making sure it is as optimised as possible within budget.
This is more crucial to get right in these types of environments, because after every upgrade with cables or tweaks, the frequency response to your ears (distortion and noise characterists) will either get sharper or softer depending on where your setup is already at. This effects the ability to be able to record, mix and master as accurately as possible. Without proper cables or tweaks, it is practically impossible to perfectly level an instrument track, judge dynamics & reverb. A major problem is that you can't truthfully hear what compressors are doing when in use.
I will probably start branching off to HIFI once my new site is ready. I see a lot of HIFI Systems that are more accurate or revealing than mixing and mastering systems nowadays so it would be a great help.
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@@ElysianQA it’s extremely nuanced and complicated, even after 24 months I think I’m still discovering new things, because we have systems here where there were no differences between the various flagship cables including tonal change, but on others it was so apparent it shifted the tonality
And this is impossible to AB sadly, it’s a long argue process that takes months and months, and people on the Internet usually want an immediate answer black or white yes or no
@@ConvinceMeAudio Agreed, it is possibly the most complicated topic in audio for sure. I am still learning new things each year as tech and research keeps on advancing so i'm constantly documenting data.
If I were to guess why you didn't hear changes on more flagship equipment, they tend to have galvanically isolated outputs (when products mentioned galvanic isolation, it is usually just done on inputs and outputs are quite rare). If outputs are isolated on DACs, this reduces the effects of analogue cables in most scenarios other than distortion and dielectric. It would be audible but no where near in comparison to a dac without galvanically isolated outputs. It would just sound clearer with the best designs you can get under those circumstances.
2 Specific brands come to mind where they make some power cables that would be audible no matter how good your electronics are. But Powercables in audio are the most important cable to get right overall.
The lack of A/B definitely makes this hard to get people to easily perceive these changes. But once you hear it you don't want to go back, that's my experience.
I think once you are set on an answer, its hard to change someone's mind. I definitely did change someone's POV recently though I'm happy to say.
I recently got one of my friends who's also into Audio to sit down and listen to my setup without "Cables and Tweaks". bearing in mind they are an engineer with multiple degrees and was told that these things should not make a difference during education.
He enjoyed the setup without all of my additional items, said it was the best headphone system he had heard with Audeze LCD-4z and ZMF Verite Opens. I then added all of the tweaks and cables at once and he was in utter disbelief. He said that "the setup he just enjoyed, sounded embarrassing and 1/13th of the cost of what he'd guess without the cables and tweaks"
He was that thrown off almost didn't believe they were making a difference. I told him to see for himself and purchase some items from a specific uk retailer I use who offer a 60 day money back guarantee on cables and tweaks.
he has just spent roughly 10k on tweaks and 3k on cables (that he can claim back if he is not happy with) and he added all of them to his system one at a time and could notice them change the system each time. He has now stopped craving the need to upgrade and swap gear constantly since he learned its possible to greatly optimise like this. Makes more difference than upgrading hardware for sure once you focus on all areas that can be improved. 60 Days is long gone now and he has kept the items in his possession.
I'll finish optimising my setup mid next year as I will have nothing else left to buy due to the peak of tech on the market currently. Can't wait!
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Hey there, I'm a mastering engineer and would love to continue this discussion with you. Is there anywhere I can message you?
@@danielshepherd2061 for an in-depth chat join our community over on the ambush of Tigers telegram group, all the information is on the Patreon page, and in the links in the description, that’s where the entire community hangs out and we speak via voice, et cetera 🐅❤️
No they are not, but sometimes they look cool
Degradating...😆
It's "degrading".
@@adissabovic maybe I was referring to degradation LOL
Write in the script as you’re talking sometimes you can come across a little retarded bear with me LOL
@ConvinceMeAudio Shit happens, don't worry :)
After all of bein gd reviewer but noobs of the equipment..Cables do make a different..1st Materials 2nd Number of wires 3rd Terminations 4rd...Do I've to do this principles towards noobs?...ha4 welcome noobers...Peace!
Don't waste your money.
dear Lord those cables are thicc 🤣 but I dont think they are worth it, headphone cables instead are worth it from aesthetic point of view
@@soulfulfool thiiiiiick!
@@ConvinceMeAudio like a weapon that would take down multiple opponents 🧨🧨