I freaking knew it! You saved me the trouble of performing this test-experiment myself since I had a hunch that what I was reading was bullfarts from some very insistent assertions by various forum schmucks that a **substantial/ fundamental** difference exists between what they'd only refer to as "(de)vulcanizing compound" and the thing that most of these patch kits also make zero efforts to distinguish themselves apart from: "rubber cement". I had a hunch the differences in performance would be trivial, so thanks for doing the legwork of a fair test!
I think there may be a difference compared to the older "vulcanizing fluids" that contains some nastier solvents that are either no longer legal for consumer products or are at least discouraged.. I also think that today's "Tip Top" 203-F Cold Vulcanizing fluid may offer some advantage. It contains acetone along with Heptane. Older versions contained trichloroethylene. I did not test that here. I've been thinking of running a follow up test that will include that cement, the slime cement in the 8oz can, Weldwood contact cement, and perhaps the use of acetone mixed in with plain old rubber cement. I may do this pretty soon.
@@wturber @Jay Turberville Very interesting and thank you for the thorough reply. And yes I agree that there's likely a number of products that occupied retail real estate relatively recently whose chemical makeup has been either made taboo, regulated away from larger public consumption/access or just banned outright, for better or worse I won't opine about although I thoroughly admit I attempted every last mental acrobatics routine I know to try and justify purchasing a gallon container of dichloromethane/methylene chloride I spotted in a rural hardware store the other day due to both knowing it was a rare & veroboten find and simply bc maaaan is it one hellacious solvent. That stuff ruined me for other stripping compounds as I can usually strip paint faster mechanically with the right tools than I would waiting around for splotchy results with what's available these days. Not the case with the now-banned cancer juice whatsoever. *Shrug* Very curious what the results between Weldwood and an older bottle of contact cement would offer. I would just view the slime cement as control as it's pretty meh & is actually far less of a hell-mix of solvents than Elmer's rubber cement is if I'm recalling correctly & not mixing it up with [bottled] liquid electrical tape (which i've found is pretty stout stuff!)
Also, I have learned that the proper way to get the strongest bond is to put rubber cement on both surfaces, allowing the right amount of time to dry, using a patch roller, and using a sealer at the very end. Thin, even layer of cement is ready to be patched as soon as it turns hazy (or when it loses its shine). Rubber prep compound is good to clean the repair area after sanding. There’s also a temperature range that is best to work at for patching.
There's also the mechanical aspect of the pressure pushing the patch hard against the tyre carcass. This plays a much bigger role with 'glueless' patches - I've had a few of them leak minorly, then seal after a time. I tried a glueless patch on my balance ball and after time air worked it's way under and out - without constraint the glueless patch fails.
Modern tire cement no longer works. Every patch kit you can find for bicycles like Victor brand fail. The EPA banned the chemical that made the patch bond to the tire that was in the adhesive
Modern cement does not work as well as the older stuff for exactly the reason you give. But it still works sufficiently for at home repairs. It is much more iffy for on the road patches.
@@wturber I have tried numerous times to make it work. I scuffed the surfaces of the tubes same way as I did when I was a child. I even tried again and spread glue around the entire perimeter of the patch as well like I used to do as a child. I even went so far as to let it dry overnight on a third attempt another time.. Nothing worked. Every patch I tried still leaked after proper pressure was filled and the tire lost air again and again. When I was a kid, I was riding my bike within 20 minutes after patching and they never leaked in the same spot again. Not once did a patch fail in the 1970's. NOT ONCE !
I need to repair my Paradigm Monitor 90p rubber surrounds (not foam) that have a few cat claw poke holes. There is even a split about 1/2 inch that needs a backing material. These surrounds are very soft and pliable rubber. Whatever I use needs to be very flexible and thin so the drivers can move as they need to. I tried Shoe Goo and that was a bad choice. It was very thick and would not spread. After sitting for a month, I found out that Goo Be Gone can be used to remove it. The midrange has a couple of pokes, the messy Shoe Goo made a big 3 inch patch lol. It took 2 1/2hrs to gently peel it off after a few dabs of Goo Be Gone softened it enough. The subwoofer has the split. I used a small piece of paper towel behind the surround and Shoe Goo. I have not removed this “patch” yet, I have to take the driver out of the cabinet. What do you suggest I use? I’ve talked to Flex Seal and they said not to use their products. It may not adhere to the rubber the surrounds are made of and it cannot be thinned.
You should also try it with different type of "patches": one made from old tubes, and others made from other materials. There was someone here on TH-cam who patched their tube with paper and SuperGlue... I wonder how long that would hold.
I've tried the super glue paper method. It holds very well until water gets in the rim. Rode with one of these patches for one month before getting caught in a rain storm and the patch let go (paper disintegrated). I've tried several other methods and nothing seems to work more than a day or two. I think I am going to try the paper/super glue again, and then placing a piece of gorilla tape on top of it to keep it dry when it rains.
Interesting test. You should of left them for a month or road around with the tire to see how they hold up over time. Even regular glue will probably hold at first, but over time is the real test to see if it is truly repaired or not. Still very cool to see how they all bonded.
@@wturber that would be interesting to see. Also, I suggest changing the title to "bike patch glue vs rubber cement test" or something that people will be searching for as well as a brief description of what's happening in the description box. Will be easier for people to find this video as it's one of the only ones that actually do this test.
You may get some "vulcanization if you had a taste of sulfur in some compound. The vulcanization has other attributes rather than exclusive bonding. According to Charles Goodyear.
It wouldn't be. Think of this as a destructive analysis similar to what is done to a welder's welds when he or she are trying to get certified. And peeling off the patches does show that regular rubber cement doesn't create quite as good of a bond as the for the purpose rubber cement that has other more nasty solvents in it. Whether that matters or not is up to each individual to decide.
The patch does not need to rip completely off the tube for it to fail. It just takes the cement failing just enough to let air past the patch. I've had this happen many times. Patch looks great and firmly in place but hold it under water and you see the bubbles
thanks, I'll give that a try. I never had problems in the past working regular patch kit glue but recently I find they never seem to hold. I wonder if the glue is made differently than it used to be. I've actually tried super glue with paper as the patch. It works but if water gets in the rim the paper disintegrates and the patch will fail. Super glue does not work at all with rubber patches.
@@robertpreato6382 sorry for bad english,but standard patches are trash in my bike shop thep peeled off very easy and my father teach me how to patch tube with old tube,and he told me that u must cut off edges on 45° for thinner edges and this hold as long as inner tube lifetime,one more tip u must scratch with sand paper inner tube and patch that u made put glue on both tube and patch in my case waiting 15 mins for drying and attach and press them
when the tube is in the tyre is it pressing against the inner wall of the tyre, so its impossible for the patch to be dislodged... ive had tubes w self adhesive patches that last years
the patch does not need to become dislodged for it to leak air. unless there is an good bond, air will find its way past the patch, not matter how firmly it is pressed against the tire wall.
One word, heat. I recently did a repair and left the tube inflated overnight after repair. It held fine. I installed it and it was good a few hours later under 65 psi. But my bike was outside and when the sun hit the tube, the bond softened and it leaked. I live in AZ and I'm sure the tire temperature got over 130F.
I once had a kit that the glue worked so well that you couldn't remove the patch from the tube with a pair of pliers. Now kits like Slime the glue won't hold the patch on at all. I wish I knew and noted the brand name of that first kit.
Rema patches and Tip/Top glue seem to make a permanent bond. Though I haven't carefully tested it. What is supposed to happen is that the patch and tire have their molecules cross-linked with each other forming essentially some huge supersized rubber molecules. I need to re-do this comparison and include Rema/TipTop as well as Weldwood contact cement.
I place a small piece of aluminum foil on the top of the tube opening before placing the cap on it, this keep the cement from evaporating. Using this method almost completely stops the cement from vaporizing
Yes, but that does nothing for the new kit that has already gone bad. If you want to be sure it is good, you need to puncture that new tube of glue and then perhaps use your aluminum foil trick. I think I'm going on two years now with the nail polish bottle and the glue is still not drying out. Also, it is easy to visually inspect it to see that it still flows ... without opening the bottle.
@@nts9 I wouldn't go so far as "great". I plan on trying your aluminum foil idea with an opened tube of silicon sealant. Seemingly nothing ever seems to be able to seal an opened tube of that stuff.
I looked for what chemical was EPA banned and I could find no mention of a federal ban per se. My guess is that the chemical in question is toulene. Many companies are voluntarily reformulating their products to avoid regulation in the EU or US states that ban concentrations of a certain amount. It can be toxic but interestingly probably not as toxic as some of the paint strippers still sold in hardware stores. But it can be unfortunately be abused.
Yes. It may not be a ban per se. Rema TipTop used to use Trichloroethylene in theirs. www.rematiptop.com/assets/tech/trm/sds/RTT-TRM-018%20Rev.%207%20(Cold%20Vulcanizing%20Cement)%20071515AOM.pdf cen.acs.org/articles/94/i15/Notification-required-new-consumer-products.html
I am experiencing issues of late with glues and patches that wont adhere to tubes and patches that don't stretch on tube inflation so they don't seal. I also have noticed the glue tubes lids are to long so the skirt of the cap bottoms out on the neck of the glue tube, leaving it unsealed. I am yet to try shaving some of the cap off to make it a better fit.
I've had pretty good luck putting glue in an empty nail polish bottle as shown in that video. The bottle I have in my saddle pack is still fine after two years or so. It is easy to check since the bottle is transparent.
@@wturber Yes, I like the idea of the nail polish bottle being used. I am yet to find a person who uses nail polish that I can get a used one from at some stage.
Won't do you much good there when you are out riding yer bike. :^) Also please note that my new fresh kit was already defective and leaking - before I opened it. Maybe the fridge would have kept it alive longer.
@@wturber Well, the fridge trick has done me a lot of good. They have all been OK for a long time. I have done it. I know. You obviously have not tried it yet. I also keep small rubber Carburetor parts of my Weed Wacker in the fridge in a small ziplock bag. They have also passed the test of time. 😉👍🏼
Interesting video punched like. While the last two did not "fuse" as much as the first from a practical engineering standpoint the question should be "does it meet specification?" I.e. would it survive the rigors of a normal tube that was not patched. My guess is that they would get the job done! Another question I would like to know is if a patch could be made using "silicone" adhesive or "shoe goop". Note that a solvent based repair is different as it is generally molecular I.e. "fused" while an adhesive does not it adheres use a different substance and solvent. Another interesting test would be to use craft rubber cement. I came here after repairing a car tire using a string kit and was wondering about the quality of the repair and the rubber cement. If testing I'd probably use a test that could measure the PSI of the repair rather than just visual inspection. Just some observations.
I read what appeared to be a very good technical write-up on how patches ideally work. The point was made that the goal wasn't to make an adhesive bond, but instead to create a situation where rubber crosslinks to rubber. The point of roughing up the tire isn't so much to give a place for the cement to grip as it is to expose unoxidized rubber that is more prone to cross-linking with the rubber in the cement. I strongly suspect that the solvents used are a factor in how well that works. But many of the solvents used in "vulcanizing fluid" from days past are no longer available in consumer products due to the hazards that they present. Given that Shoe Goo and silicone adhesive are both non-latex based adhesives, they don't provide the possibility for cross-linking and would therefore rely on their adhesive qualities alone. Of the two, I'd think Shoe Goo would be the best bet. That it is a contact cement meant to be applied, dried and then assembled makes me lean that direction. But before tried that, I'd try standard Weldwood (or similar) contact cement. It seems to form a pretty tenacious yet flexible bond. Maybe I need to do another video trying alternative adhesivies. Seems worthwhile since I don't think modern rubber cements are doing the job as well as old school "vulcanizing fluid" does.
@@wturber Instead of inflating an innertube you might could cut up small 1 inch rubber strips, glue them together and then put weights on them like this person did. Though I myself would just wait for full cure before adding weights. th-cam.com/video/hsmqOMNsekg/w-d-xo.html While not scientific, if the glued strips can hold more weight than the PSI rating of the tube then the repair should work for air filled tube. Some ideas for candidates maybe Walmart rubber cement ("Hyper Tough" brand) because that's what's available everywhere plus elmers craft rubber cement. GE window silicone, goop. Maybe construction adhesive. I just checked Oreilly auto parts sell rubber cement plus a "vulcanizing" rubber cement.
@@metatechnologist Not sure how you could calculate an equivalent PSI from that test. Also, you have the problem of how to attach a weight to the rubber. And finally, I'd rather use a "for the purpose" patch. That orange stuff should be optimized for the job. Looks like HyperTough brand uses the same Heptane solvent as ordinary rubber cement such as Elmers and the Best Test I used. So -called "vulcanizing adhesives" usually have an additional solvent. TipTop brand adds Acetone, Slime adds Napth, Heptene and Octane. I'm going to try to do a new test in the next few weeks using Rema TipTop brand Rema patches, three different rubber rubber cements, Weldwood Contact Cement, Shoe Goo, and maybe silicone seal - though silicon seal seems like a long shot to me.
@@wturber Here's what one guy did to test wood glues. th-cam.com/video/k-g3efGa3sI/w-d-xo.html But it's resource intensive and challenging for anyone to do such a test. Also I agree that rubber is much more difficult to handle from a testing perspective. I feel like that clamping rubber might be doable if the strips of rubber were small so a large clamping force wasnt necessary. Brainstorming - you might turn them into "rubber bands" and then you could hook them to weights/testing apparatus.
YES. contact cement is meant for a more permanent bond that actually works MANY different materials.. most rubber cement is worthless... like Elmers. That stuff barely holds paper together. Not sure what its even for. I use contact cement to hold foam to plastic for paintball masks.
You start sanding right next to a cleaned prepped cemented area? A lot of microscopic dust and contaminates certainly landed in your drying blob of cement.
A lot? I doubt it. But sure, maybe a little bit of stuff made its way to the rubber cement. Sanding rubber doesn't create a lot of loose particles. It isn't like sanding wood. And to the extent that it does create particles, it would be mostly rubber which shouldn't interfere with bonding much. The purpose of sanding the tube isn't so much to create a rough surface as it is to rip apart long rubber molecule chains making them more likely to crosslink with other rubber compounds in the cement. I figured it was more important to get cement on these freshly exposed bits of rubber quickly rather than maybe have them begin to oxidize. Also, if there was any significant contamination, you'd expect the third patch to benefit from the lack of contamination since there was no adjacent sanding. But the first patch had the best bond, not the third.
@@wturber I've only completed every single class retreading classes from heavy machinery to passenger to truck to auto seal to run flats to advanced shearography interpretation, I wasn't trying to put your repair down, industry standards and steps of proper repair unit adhesion is black and white.
@@tomsuica8731 I don't disagree with your basic critique so much as I do with the degree of emphasis. I've been working repairing bikes that we give to kids who need bikes and have access to some discarded tubes. So I intend to do another version or versions of this test and will consider the issue that you raised - even if I doubt it was a significant factor. Fact is I have no way of knowing for sure. It's always good to reduce variables.
@@wturber Yeah, I too have been experimenting ewith expired cement, diy home made cement and mostly heat vulcanization they way they do in the phillipines. Send me an email also, I will send you access to the retread training courses if you want :)
I don't know for sure, but I would think that would be a poor choice since the dried glue isn't flexible. I think the dried or cured adhesive should be about as flexible as the rubber it is bonding. The tube needs to expand inside the tire to work properly and if the patch does not stretch with the tube then that probably creates a lot of stress that might damage the tube or simply unbond the patch. But hey - you can try it and tell us what happens.
Just buy a can of vulcanising cement I use tech fast drying never had a patch fail yet and i use a proper patch stitcher or roller instead only use tyre lever for emergency repairs ie roadside
Newer "vulcanizing fluid" is the same as the "for the purpose" rubber cement I used. Older vulcanizing fluids used different solvents and work better. If you still have a can, great. But it is very hard to find that stuff these days.
Go to the auto parts store and get a pint and a sticher, we always used a sticher on the truck tubes ( sometimes event lit the glue to speed the process as far as I know never had a problem( no fun breaking those truck tires down.
Technically you should have encountered more problems with the bond on the second patch. You gave it no time to cure. It's completely different than standard bicycle kit glue and needs to cure. Additionally you need to give it longer than 5 minutes before applying. Frankly I was surprised how well the second patch bonded. But it will bond much better done properly.
It is not completely different than "standard bicycle kit glue" Also, there is no "standard". Each manufacture uses different solvents. That's the fundamental difference between these various glues. And it varies from brand to brand. I've looked that the various MSDS sheets. Slime's main solvent is Ligroin aka "heavy naptha." Best Test rubber cement has one solvent - N-heptane. Tip-Top 203-F Cold Vulcanizing Fluid uses mostly Heptane isomers. As for time to cure, all you need to allow for is that the glue has a dry to dull look and is tacky to the touch. This basically means you need to allow most of the solvent to evaporate - which is what I did. How long that takes will vary depending on temperature and humidity, whether you blow on the cement, etc..This test was done in July in Fountain Hills, AZ - a suburb of Phoenix - in the desert . It is relatively hot and dry here that time of the year. Solvents dry pretty quickly. The patch bonded well because the glue was allowed to dry an appropriate amount of time. Further, the patches were allowed to continue curing and off-gas for over two hours. I would expect the patches to cure even better given more time. But tire patches are expected to get us back on the road in minutes, not hours. So a two hour cure time is a more than fair time window.
I agree, tube patching glues aren't what they should be these days, Neither are the patches good enough to cater for stretching enough to keep what little adhesion there is in tact still.
I can't agree with that last part. I have tubes with many patches and the patches stretch fine up to and beyond the size limit of the tubes. That said, I typically am patching with a Rema Tip Top patch.
@@wturber I am questioning the make of the patches that I seem to be using as to their ability to stretch at all. I will do a bit more trial on some other patches that aren't direct from China (eBay).
@@johndee68 I have some larger rectangular patches from China with a brand I don't recognize. And I think I used Slime patches in this video. I've read one reasonable sounding notion from a chemist who hypothesized that the patch compound itself (the orange stuff) is a major factor in the bonding chemistry. I need to revisit this topic. I hope to do a follow-up in the new few weeks. We'll see if I can get it done soon.
@@wturber Yes, I can see that it seems the only part that chemically binds is meant to be the orange back. Though even the glues wont hold when using actual inner tube from a previously irreparable tube.
11:51 That is why, in a truly scientific test, you would have had more than one sample of each. And maybe a specified machine to apply the scrubbing consistently and evenly. But that is probably too much for such a simple test.
Agreed. Keep in mind that this was pretty much an exploration and not a science study. But Project Farm often does multiple tests per sample so it isn't beyond the scope of a TH-cam video and is something I'll think about if I do a follow up. Another variable to consider is different tubes. Maybe not all Butyl rubber is the same? Then I could vary the patch manufacturer as well. The list could probably go on.
@@wturber Yeah, but you doubted you treated them the same way on the same tire. If you make say 3 samples / test, you can rule out those inconsistencies. Later I realized that video is basically useless to me as none of the products are available in my country. I think one or more of the ingredients (solvents) are "illegal" in my country. You can get rubber cement here too, but the ingredients are totally different. Actually, I found the 8oz container Slime rubber cement on my local Amazon (which doesn't mean it is legal to sell, though) but it would cost € 65 (=~ $69, including tax, excluding shipping) instead of the $9.19 (excluding tax and shipping) it costs in the US. And yes, it is only one 8oz container, not a whole box of it.
YOU NEED TO MAKE A NEW VIDEO TRYING 3M Scotch Weld PR40 instead of rubber cement. The lack of ingredients in these modern rubber cements is the same problem semi trucks don’t last these days…our stupid government.
Its painful watching you put holes in a perfectly good inner tube.Having a puncture can spoil my day as I seem to have so much trouble repairing and hate hearing people say they've never had a problem doing it.
Well, hopefully this video helped you learn to make the repair. I have a follow up planned where I will use contact cement. Either way, the trick to a good patch in my experience is to not rush things. Let the glue dry enough before applying the patch. And also letting the patch cure for a while before applying pressure - if you have that option. With that in mind, I usually carry a spare tube and a patch kit and prefer to just use that spare tube and patch the punctured tube when I get home. Or if I'm not in a rush, I may patch it before I get underway. The repaired tube becomes the spare. I use tubes for a very long time before they get retired.
Nope. The razor knife only cut through the paper sticker. In order to get through to the tube, I would have also had to sever the plastic case. Furthermore, the glue that had leaked from the tube had started to dry already. You can see that I attempted to rub some of the dried glue off of the inside of the plastic case. You are right, however, that I wasn't very careful about opening the case. I was trying (and failing) to do so while within the camera frame. In the future, I'll probably shoot at 4K and crop to 1080p as needed.
'Slime' repair kit. Looks just like the countless ones I've purchased over time, the vast majority of which were worthless when needed as the tube of glue had dried up. Now carrying CO2 cart's along with at least one spare tire tube, that as well as a bike mounted pump and yes, at least one 'Slime' POS repair kit.
Yes. I always carry a spare tube. I'll change tubes on the road first simply because it is faster. I also carry a spare tube because I've had tubes fail at the valve stem in ways that you couldn't patch. If I were bicycle touring or going on very long rides, I'd probably carry two spare tubes.
BTW, the nail polish bottle has worked out great. The glue has stayed fresh in it for well over a year and that's even with our very hot summers in the Phoenix, AZ area.
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Love these kinds of tests. Nice an thorough.
I freaking knew it! You saved me the trouble of performing this test-experiment myself since I had a hunch that what I was reading was bullfarts from some very insistent assertions by various forum schmucks that a **substantial/ fundamental** difference exists between what they'd only refer to as "(de)vulcanizing compound" and the thing that most of these patch kits also make zero efforts to distinguish themselves apart from: "rubber cement". I had a hunch the differences in performance would be trivial, so thanks for doing the legwork of a fair test!
I think there may be a difference compared to the older "vulcanizing fluids" that contains some nastier solvents that are either no longer legal for consumer products or are at least discouraged.. I also think that today's "Tip Top" 203-F Cold Vulcanizing fluid may offer some advantage. It contains acetone along with Heptane. Older versions contained trichloroethylene. I did not test that here.
I've been thinking of running a follow up test that will include that cement, the slime cement in the 8oz can, Weldwood contact cement, and perhaps the use of acetone mixed in with plain old rubber cement. I may do this pretty soon.
@@wturber @Jay Turberville Very interesting and thank you for the thorough reply. And yes I agree that there's likely a number of products that occupied retail real estate relatively recently whose chemical makeup has been either made taboo, regulated away from larger public consumption/access or just banned outright, for better or worse I won't opine about although I thoroughly admit I attempted every last mental acrobatics routine I know to try and justify purchasing a gallon container of dichloromethane/methylene chloride I spotted in a rural hardware store the other day due to both knowing it was a rare & veroboten find and simply bc maaaan is it one hellacious solvent. That stuff ruined me for other stripping compounds as I can usually strip paint faster mechanically with the right tools than I would waiting around for splotchy results with what's available these days. Not the case with the now-banned cancer juice whatsoever. *Shrug* Very curious what the results between Weldwood and an older bottle of contact cement would offer. I would just view the slime cement as control as it's pretty meh & is actually far less of a hell-mix of solvents than Elmer's rubber cement is if I'm recalling correctly & not mixing it up with [bottled] liquid electrical tape (which i've found is pretty stout stuff!)
Nice test. Just started patching my bike tubes because the price has gone up so high! Thanks👍
likely the tube repair glue is thinner with more solvents which give it more penetration into the rubbers.
Nice video. I had the same problem with the glue drying so I carry extra tube with me
Also, I have learned that the proper way to get the strongest bond is to put rubber cement on both surfaces, allowing the right amount of time to dry, using a patch roller, and using a sealer at the very end. Thin, even layer of cement is ready to be patched as soon as it turns hazy (or when it loses its shine). Rubber prep compound is good to clean the repair area after sanding. There’s also a temperature range that is best to work at for patching.
There's also the mechanical aspect of the pressure pushing the patch hard against the tyre carcass. This plays a much bigger role with 'glueless' patches - I've had a few of them leak minorly, then seal after a time. I tried a glueless patch on my balance ball and after time air worked it's way under and out - without constraint the glueless patch fails.
Modern tire cement no longer works. Every patch kit you can find for bicycles like Victor brand fail. The EPA banned the chemical that made the patch bond to the tire that was in the adhesive
that explains why my patch kits don't work like they used to
@@robertpreato6382 Yep. You will need to buy commercial grade adhesive that has the old chemicals. They sell it at professional suppliers.
That explains why the "rubber cement" I bought at Wal-Mart was unusually runny - it likely used a different solvent!
Modern cement does not work as well as the older stuff for exactly the reason you give. But it still works sufficiently for at home repairs. It is much more iffy for on the road patches.
@@wturber I have tried numerous times to make it work. I scuffed the surfaces of the tubes same way as I did when I was a child. I even tried again and spread glue around the entire perimeter of the patch as well like I used to do as a child. I even went so far as to let it dry overnight on a third attempt another time.. Nothing worked. Every patch I tried still leaked after proper pressure was filled and the tire lost air again and again. When I was a kid, I was riding my bike within 20 minutes after patching and they never leaked in the same spot again. Not once did a patch fail in the 1970's. NOT ONCE !
I need to repair my Paradigm Monitor 90p rubber surrounds (not foam) that have a few cat claw poke holes. There is even a split about 1/2 inch that needs a backing material. These surrounds are very soft and pliable rubber. Whatever I use needs to be very flexible and thin so the drivers can move as they need to.
I tried Shoe Goo and that was a bad choice. It was very thick and would not spread. After sitting for a month, I found out that Goo Be Gone can be used to remove it. The midrange has a couple of pokes, the messy Shoe Goo made a big 3 inch patch lol. It took 2 1/2hrs to gently peel it off after a few dabs of Goo Be Gone softened it enough. The subwoofer has the split. I used a small piece of paper towel behind the surround and Shoe Goo. I have not removed this “patch” yet, I have to take the driver out of the cabinet.
What do you suggest I use?
I’ve talked to Flex Seal and they said not to use their products. It may not adhere to the rubber the surrounds are made of and it cannot be thinned.
You should also try it with different type of "patches": one made from old tubes, and others made from other materials. There was someone here on TH-cam who patched their tube with paper and SuperGlue... I wonder how long that would hold.
I've tried the super glue paper method. It holds very well until water gets in the rim. Rode with one of these patches for one month before getting caught in a rain storm and the patch let go (paper disintegrated). I've tried several other methods and nothing seems to work more than a day or two. I think I am going to try the paper/super glue again, and then placing a piece of gorilla tape on top of it to keep it dry when it rains.
50yrs ago I read about using a dollar bill, which is virtually indestructible, as a patch!
is the "slime glue" a vulcanizing fluid or some special rubber cement?
Interesting test. You should of left them for a month or road around with the tire to see how they hold up over time. Even regular glue will probably hold at first, but over time is the real test to see if it is truly repaired or not. Still very cool to see how they all bonded.
Fair enough. I may repeat the test on the tube in my front tire and report back in 500 or so miles.
@@wturber that would be interesting to see. Also, I suggest changing the title to "bike patch glue vs rubber cement test" or something that people will be searching for as well as a brief description of what's happening in the description box. Will be easier for people to find this video as it's one of the only ones that actually do this test.
@@Teamshmo Agree. This is actually a great test.
@@wturber Better to do it on the rear tire. If the front tire fails you could end up crashing, if the rear tire goes it is much less risky.
You may get some "vulcanization if you had a taste of sulfur in some compound. The vulcanization has other attributes rather than exclusive bonding. According to Charles Goodyear.
seems like they all did the job, in what instance would the patch be poked and peeled off inside the tire?
It wouldn't be. Think of this as a destructive analysis similar to what is done to a welder's welds when he or she are trying to get certified.
And peeling off the patches does show that regular rubber cement doesn't create quite as good of a bond as the for the purpose rubber cement that has other more nasty solvents in it. Whether that matters or not is up to each individual to decide.
The patch does not need to rip completely off the tube for it to fail. It just takes the cement failing just enough to let air past the patch. I've had this happen many times. Patch looks great and firmly in place but hold it under water and you see the bubbles
I'm wondering if you can repair an inner tube with just silicone caulking
I do woodworking, using contact cement. Works great for patches using old tubes for patches.
thanks, I'll give that a try. I never had problems in the past working regular patch kit glue but recently I find they never seem to hold. I wonder if the glue is made differently than it used to be. I've actually tried super glue with paper as the patch. It works but if water gets in the rim the paper disintegrates and the patch will fail. Super glue does not work at all with rubber patches.
@@robertpreato6382 sorry for bad english,but standard patches are trash in my bike shop thep peeled off very easy and my father teach me how to patch tube with old tube,and he told me that u must cut off edges on 45° for thinner edges and this hold as long as inner tube lifetime,one more tip u must scratch with sand paper inner tube and patch that u made put glue on both tube and patch in my case waiting 15 mins for drying and attach and press them
To RcHydrooz, With all the inferior products on the market it would be helpful if you include the brand name of that contact cement.
no it doesn't
@@ranborenbo884 your dad read the instructions to you
Your patches are good but if you try different patches will be not hood solid on the rubber and depend also on rubber cement
when the tube is in the tyre is it pressing against the inner wall of the tyre, so its impossible for the patch to be dislodged... ive had tubes w self adhesive patches that last years
the patch does not need to become dislodged for it to leak air. unless there is an good bond, air will find its way past the patch, not matter how firmly it is pressed against the tire wall.
One word, heat. I recently did a repair and left the tube inflated overnight after repair. It held fine. I installed it and it was good a few hours later under 65 psi. But my bike was outside and when the sun hit the tube, the bond softened and it leaked. I live in AZ and I'm sure the tire temperature got over 130F.
I saw the thumbnail and immediately assumed you were addressing regluing table tennis rubbers. LOL!
I do have videos on using TearMender to glue table tennis rubbers. But maybe you know that and hence the assumption?
I once had a kit that the glue worked so well that you couldn't remove the patch from the tube with a pair of pliers. Now kits like Slime the glue won't hold the patch on at all. I wish I knew and noted the brand name of that first kit.
Rema patches and Tip/Top glue seem to make a permanent bond. Though I haven't carefully tested it. What is supposed to happen is that the patch and tire have their molecules cross-linked with each other forming essentially some huge supersized rubber molecules. I need to re-do this comparison and include Rema/TipTop as well as Weldwood contact cement.
I place a small piece of aluminum foil on the top of the tube opening before placing the cap on it, this keep the cement from evaporating. Using this method almost completely stops the cement from vaporizing
Yes, but that does nothing for the new kit that has already gone bad. If you want to be sure it is good, you need to puncture that new tube of glue and then perhaps use your aluminum foil trick.
I think I'm going on two years now with the nail polish bottle and the glue is still not drying out. Also, it is easy to visually inspect it to see that it still flows ... without opening the bottle.
@@wturber your video is very good and informative and yes your idea is great.
@@nts9 I wouldn't go so far as "great". I plan on trying your aluminum foil idea with an opened tube of silicon sealant. Seemingly nothing ever seems to be able to seal an opened tube of that stuff.
I looked for what chemical was EPA banned and I could find no mention of a federal ban per se. My guess is that the chemical in question is toulene. Many companies are voluntarily reformulating their products to avoid regulation in the EU or US states that ban concentrations of a certain amount. It can be toxic but interestingly probably not as toxic as some of the paint strippers still sold in hardware stores. But it can be unfortunately be abused.
Yes. It may not be a ban per se. Rema TipTop used to use Trichloroethylene in theirs.
www.rematiptop.com/assets/tech/trm/sds/RTT-TRM-018%20Rev.%207%20(Cold%20Vulcanizing%20Cement)%20071515AOM.pdf
cen.acs.org/articles/94/i15/Notification-required-new-consumer-products.html
I am experiencing issues of late with glues and patches that wont adhere to tubes and patches that don't stretch on tube inflation so they don't seal.
I also have noticed the glue tubes lids are to long so the skirt of the cap bottoms out on the neck of the glue tube, leaving it unsealed. I am yet to try shaving some of the cap off to make it a better fit.
I've had pretty good luck putting glue in an empty nail polish bottle as shown in that video. The bottle I have in my saddle pack is still fine after two years or so. It is easy to check since the bottle is transparent.
@@wturber Yes, I like the idea of the nail polish bottle being used. I am yet to find a person who uses nail polish that I can get a used one from at some stage.
@@johndee68 got to a nail salon and ask for an empty bottle.
👏👏😮🙀🤔🤫 you got the good show of doing it
I put my Patch kit in a Zip lock bag and store it in my fridge (any where in the back🙂) This way everything is preserved and won’t dry. 😉👍🏼
Won't do you much good there when you are out riding yer bike. :^) Also please note that my new fresh kit was already defective and leaking - before I opened it. Maybe the fridge would have kept it alive longer.
@@wturber
Well, the fridge trick has done me a lot of good. They have all been OK for a long time. I have done it. I know. You obviously have not tried it yet. I also keep small rubber Carburetor parts of my Weed Wacker in the fridge in a small ziplock bag. They have also passed the test of time. 😉👍🏼
Interesting video punched like. While the last two did not "fuse" as much as the first from a practical engineering standpoint the question should be "does it meet specification?" I.e. would it survive the rigors of a normal tube that was not patched. My guess is that they would get the job done!
Another question I would like to know is if a patch could be made using "silicone" adhesive or "shoe goop". Note that a solvent based repair is different as it is generally molecular I.e. "fused" while an adhesive does not it adheres use a different substance and solvent. Another interesting test would be to use craft rubber cement.
I came here after repairing a car tire using a string kit and was wondering about the quality of the repair and the rubber cement. If testing I'd probably use a test that could measure the PSI of the repair rather than just visual inspection. Just some observations.
I read what appeared to be a very good technical write-up on how patches ideally work. The point was made that the goal wasn't to make an adhesive bond, but instead to create a situation where rubber crosslinks to rubber. The point of roughing up the tire isn't so much to give a place for the cement to grip as it is to expose unoxidized rubber that is more prone to cross-linking with the rubber in the cement. I strongly suspect that the solvents used are a factor in how well that works. But many of the solvents used in "vulcanizing fluid" from days past are no longer available in consumer products due to the hazards that they present.
Given that Shoe Goo and silicone adhesive are both non-latex based adhesives, they don't provide the possibility for cross-linking and would therefore rely on their adhesive qualities alone. Of the two, I'd think Shoe Goo would be the best bet. That it is a contact cement meant to be applied, dried and then assembled makes me lean that direction. But before tried that, I'd try standard Weldwood (or similar) contact cement. It seems to form a pretty tenacious yet flexible bond.
Maybe I need to do another video trying alternative adhesivies. Seems worthwhile since I don't think modern rubber cements are doing the job as well as old school "vulcanizing fluid" does.
@@wturber Instead of inflating an innertube you might could cut up small 1 inch rubber strips, glue them together and then put weights on them like this person did. Though I myself would just wait for full cure before adding weights.
th-cam.com/video/hsmqOMNsekg/w-d-xo.html
While not scientific, if the glued strips can hold more weight than the PSI rating of the tube then the repair should work for air filled tube.
Some ideas for candidates maybe Walmart rubber cement ("Hyper Tough" brand) because that's what's available everywhere plus elmers craft rubber cement. GE window silicone, goop. Maybe construction adhesive. I just checked Oreilly auto parts sell rubber cement plus a "vulcanizing" rubber cement.
@@metatechnologist Not sure how you could calculate an equivalent PSI from that test. Also, you have the problem of how to attach a weight to the rubber. And finally, I'd rather use a "for the purpose" patch. That orange stuff should be optimized for the job.
Looks like HyperTough brand uses the same Heptane solvent as ordinary rubber cement such as Elmers and the Best Test I used. So -called "vulcanizing adhesives" usually have an additional solvent. TipTop brand adds Acetone, Slime adds Napth, Heptene and Octane.
I'm going to try to do a new test in the next few weeks using Rema TipTop brand Rema patches, three different rubber rubber cements, Weldwood Contact Cement, Shoe Goo, and maybe silicone seal - though silicon seal seems like a long shot to me.
@@wturber Here's what one guy did to test wood glues.
th-cam.com/video/k-g3efGa3sI/w-d-xo.html
But it's resource intensive and challenging for anyone to do such a test. Also I agree that rubber is much more difficult to handle from a testing perspective. I feel like that clamping rubber might be doable if the strips of rubber were small so a large clamping force wasnt necessary. Brainstorming - you might turn them into "rubber bands" and then you could hook them to weights/testing apparatus.
Nice ring. Looks like Opal, maybe. 😊🪨
Is there a difference between contact cement and rubber cement?
YES. contact cement is meant for a more permanent bond that actually works MANY different materials.. most rubber cement is worthless... like Elmers. That stuff barely holds paper together. Not sure what its even for. I use contact cement to hold foam to plastic for paintball masks.
Yeah, for sure some kind of Long Term Test Results would have been super useful here as well. I think I'm gonna make THAT video. :)
You start sanding right next to a cleaned prepped cemented area? A lot of microscopic dust and contaminates certainly landed in your drying blob of cement.
A lot? I doubt it. But sure, maybe a little bit of stuff made its way to the rubber cement. Sanding rubber doesn't create a lot of loose particles. It isn't like sanding wood. And to the extent that it does create particles, it would be mostly rubber which shouldn't interfere with bonding much.
The purpose of sanding the tube isn't so much to create a rough surface as it is to rip apart long rubber molecule chains making them more likely to crosslink with other rubber compounds in the cement. I figured it was more important to get cement on these freshly exposed bits of rubber quickly rather than maybe have them begin to oxidize.
Also, if there was any significant contamination, you'd expect the third patch to benefit from the lack of contamination since there was no adjacent sanding. But the first patch had the best bond, not the third.
@@wturber I've only completed every single class retreading classes from heavy machinery to passenger to truck to auto seal to run flats to advanced shearography interpretation, I wasn't trying to put your repair down, industry standards and steps of proper repair unit adhesion is black and white.
There are WAY too many nuisances and special considerations to squeeze into 1 vid!
@@tomsuica8731 I don't disagree with your basic critique so much as I do with the degree of emphasis. I've been working repairing bikes that we give to kids who need bikes and have access to some discarded tubes. So I intend to do another version or versions of this test and will consider the issue that you raised - even if I doubt it was a significant factor. Fact is I have no way of knowing for sure. It's always good to reduce variables.
@@wturber Yeah, I too have been experimenting ewith expired cement, diy home made cement and mostly heat vulcanization they way they do in the phillipines. Send me an email also, I will send you access to the retread training courses if you want :)
Can I use crazy glue instead of rubber cement to fix the tire?
I don't know for sure, but I would think that would be a poor choice since the dried glue isn't flexible. I think the dried or cured adhesive should be about as flexible as the rubber it is bonding. The tube needs to expand inside the tire to work properly and if the patch does not stretch with the tube then that probably creates a lot of stress that might damage the tube or simply unbond the patch. But hey - you can try it and tell us what happens.
Just buy a can of vulcanising cement I use tech fast drying never had a patch fail yet and i use a proper patch stitcher or roller instead only use tyre lever for emergency repairs ie roadside
Newer "vulcanizing fluid" is the same as the "for the purpose" rubber cement I used. Older vulcanizing fluids used different solvents and work better. If you still have a can, great. But it is very hard to find that stuff these days.
Go to the auto parts store and get a pint and a sticher, we always used a sticher on the truck tubes ( sometimes event lit the glue to speed the process as far as I know never had a problem( no fun breaking those truck tires down.
@@kevinmccune9324 a pint of what
@@wturber what was in the original
Technically you should have encountered more problems with the bond on the second patch. You gave it no time to cure. It's completely different than standard bicycle kit glue and needs to cure. Additionally you need to give it longer than 5 minutes before applying. Frankly I was surprised how well the second patch bonded. But it will bond much better done properly.
It is not completely different than "standard bicycle kit glue" Also, there is no "standard". Each manufacture uses different solvents. That's the fundamental difference between these various glues. And it varies from brand to brand. I've looked that the various MSDS sheets. Slime's main solvent is Ligroin aka "heavy naptha." Best Test rubber cement has one solvent - N-heptane. Tip-Top 203-F Cold Vulcanizing Fluid uses mostly Heptane isomers.
As for time to cure, all you need to allow for is that the glue has a dry to dull look and is tacky to the touch. This basically means you need to allow most of the solvent to evaporate - which is what I did. How long that takes will vary depending on temperature and humidity, whether you blow on the cement, etc..This test was done in July in Fountain Hills, AZ - a suburb of Phoenix - in the desert . It is relatively hot and dry here that time of the year. Solvents dry pretty quickly. The patch bonded well because the glue was allowed to dry an appropriate amount of time. Further, the patches were allowed to continue curing and off-gas for over two hours. I would expect the patches to cure even better given more time. But tire patches are expected to get us back on the road in minutes, not hours. So a two hour cure time is a more than fair time window.
Пользуйтесь продукцией БХЗ и Россвик и у вас хорошо заклеится велокамера 👍
I agree, tube patching glues aren't what they should be these days, Neither are the patches good enough to cater for stretching enough to keep what little adhesion there is in tact still.
I can't agree with that last part. I have tubes with many patches and the patches stretch fine up to and beyond the size limit of the tubes. That said, I typically am patching with a Rema Tip Top patch.
@@wturber I am questioning the make of the patches that I seem to be using as to their ability to stretch at all. I will do a bit more trial on some other patches that aren't direct from China (eBay).
@@johndee68 I have some larger rectangular patches from China with a brand I don't recognize. And I think I used Slime patches in this video. I've read one reasonable sounding notion from a chemist who hypothesized that the patch compound itself (the orange stuff) is a major factor in the bonding chemistry.
I need to revisit this topic. I hope to do a follow-up in the new few weeks. We'll see if I can get it done soon.
@@wturber Yes, I can see that it seems the only part that chemically binds is meant to be the orange back. Though even the glues wont hold when using actual inner tube from a previously irreparable tube.
11:51 That is why, in a truly scientific test, you would have had more than one sample of each. And maybe a specified machine to apply the scrubbing consistently and evenly. But that is probably too much for such a simple test.
Agreed. Keep in mind that this was pretty much an exploration and not a science study. But Project Farm often does multiple tests per sample so it isn't beyond the scope of a TH-cam video and is something I'll think about if I do a follow up.
Another variable to consider is different tubes. Maybe not all Butyl rubber is the same? Then I could vary the patch manufacturer as well. The list could probably go on.
@@wturber Yeah, but you doubted you treated them the same way on the same tire. If you make say 3 samples / test, you can rule out those inconsistencies.
Later I realized that video is basically useless to me as none of the products are available in my country. I think one or more of the ingredients (solvents) are "illegal" in my country. You can get rubber cement here too, but the ingredients are totally different.
Actually, I found the 8oz container Slime rubber cement on my local Amazon (which doesn't mean it is legal to sell, though) but it would cost € 65 (=~ $69, including tax, excluding shipping) instead of the $9.19 (excluding tax and shipping) it costs in the US. And yes, it is only one 8oz container, not a whole box of it.
YOU NEED TO MAKE A NEW VIDEO TRYING 3M Scotch Weld PR40 instead of rubber cement. The lack of ingredients in these modern rubber cements is the same problem semi trucks don’t last these days…our stupid government.
Its painful watching you put holes in a perfectly good inner tube.Having a puncture can spoil my day as I seem to have so much trouble repairing and hate hearing people say they've never had a problem doing it.
Well, hopefully this video helped you learn to make the repair. I have a follow up planned where I will use contact cement.
Either way, the trick to a good patch in my experience is to not rush things. Let the glue dry enough before applying the patch. And also letting the patch cure for a while before applying pressure - if you have that option. With that in mind, I usually carry a spare tube and a patch kit and prefer to just use that spare tube and patch the punctured tube when I get home. Or if I'm not in a rush, I may patch it before I get underway. The repaired tube becomes the spare. I use tubes for a very long time before they get retired.
Oh, that is such a sin to purposely poke holes in a good tube smh! Why not use one that already has been used?
You bought a tube of air with the slime kit 😡😂
I doubt your rubber cement was leaking on its own... you knicked it with your razor... i mean you almost slashed yourself so not hard to imagine.
Nope. The razor knife only cut through the paper sticker. In order to get through to the tube, I would have also had to sever the plastic case. Furthermore, the glue that had leaked from the tube had started to dry already. You can see that I attempted to rub some of the dried glue off of the inside of the plastic case.
You are right, however, that I wasn't very careful about opening the case. I was trying (and failing) to do so while within the camera frame. In the future, I'll probably shoot at 4K and crop to 1080p as needed.
'Slime' repair kit. Looks just like the countless ones I've purchased over time, the vast majority of which were worthless when needed as the tube of glue had dried up. Now carrying CO2 cart's along with at least one spare tire tube, that as well as a bike mounted pump and yes, at least one 'Slime' POS repair kit.
Yes. I always carry a spare tube. I'll change tubes on the road first simply because it is faster. I also carry a spare tube because I've had tubes fail at the valve stem in ways that you couldn't patch. If I were bicycle touring or going on very long rides, I'd probably carry two spare tubes.
BTW, the nail polish bottle has worked out great. The glue has stayed fresh in it for well over a year and that's even with our very hot summers in the Phoenix, AZ area.