I actually bought one before nikon sent me the loaner... I also sent it back. I decided to give it another try with the loaner... and it did not hold up.
@@iamsamhurdphotography haha I see now... you are upset that you can't bring back photos that are massively under exposed by 5 stops. There is an easy way around that which is to learn off camera lighting. And you are a canon shooter trying out Nikon... which... boggles the mind if you think canon is better straight out of camera, unless you like soft images. Canon is massively soft out of camera, colors are oversaturated and from my testing at least... they crush their shadow details and have far less dynamic range but hey... go with what you like. It just seems weird that Nikon is sending their cameras for testing to a Canon guy. "it did not hold up" is just a weird statement
I really don't have time beyond a simple comment to dive into this, but google me and learn about my background before making so many assumptions! you really think I don't know off camera light? or didn't shoot nikon for a decade.@@JeffDietzphoto
you say in the video you use canon... in the video you are trying to massively underexpose an image to get the sky exposed and then being upset at trying to pull the image back from being underexposed... instead of off camera lighting would have solved your issue. Your conclusion of "it didn't hold up" sorry just comes off as weird to me given what you were trying to do with it. And then you are also seemingly upset that a camera that doesn't have a shutter doesn't have a shutter feel for you... You claim you tested the z9 as well so you should have already known that. I own the z9 as well and the silence is actually amazing depending on what you are photographing. Imagine as a wedding photographer or any photojournalist, wildlife, pets etc. And then you just add the fake noise when needed. It also has multiple indicators you can change in camera to see in the EVF to indicate a shot was taken when silent. @@iamsamhurdphotography
From a wildlife photographers perspective, I had to laugh when you complained about the lack of shutter sound! This goes to show that everyones tastes are different. I've had my Z8 for a month now and it's hands down the best camera I've ever used. The AF is like a cheat code.
yeah, that’s a big reason i show my actual photos made with the camera at the beginning and throughout. i still think the zf is the better camera tho ;)
Adobe seems to do something funky with the Z8/Z9 raw files. They have a lot more noise than would be expected even for low ISO images. When you open them up in NX Studio or Capture One, the shadows are much cleaner. You may want to try that to see if you get any difference.
I agree I think the fault might come down to adobe's camera profiles for these - I really do think the z9 files edit differently than the z8 in Lightroom, and that doesn't make much sense given they're the same sensor
Years ago I noticed my images in LR don’t look the same as in NX Studio or how they look on the rear screen. I had a preset that I used during import to make things a bit better. I eventually stopped using LR. These days when I shoot, I do any edits in NX Studio. Thought about another product but, as I’m no longer doing any paid gigs and just shooting for myself, NX Studio is enough for me.
Gonna be honest here. Your images are absolutely fantastic. Loved them. But the cons you mentioned are kind of silly. I can maybe understand the lack of DR or the articulation of screen but shutter sound is your main con?
I'm confused how you can't actually relate to that? The sound (or lack of) of the shutter is absolutely not silly to me. If it isn't deeply satisfying then it's a problem when I shoot 250k images a year. I also enjoy the tactical feedback of the shutter moving a little bit. The Zf has a nearly perfect shutter sound, which I've been very happy with. I think through these things a lot as it informs everything about my process, which informs how well my photos turn out.
@@iamsamhurdphotography That’s what I’m saying. Your photos turned out great. The shutter sound didn’t affect the outcome at all. Maybe a minor inconvenience (if even that) in the photo taking process but a major con where you didn’t event want the camera? Honestly, most people including myself couldn’t care less about the shutter sound if the camera is this good.
the shutter sound annoyed me the whole time so I can guarantee it did effect the outcome. this is something that's not really measurable, which is why opinions matter. it's great that the photos were still great, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't enjoy making them as much as I would have with another camera. @@sammadonline
Sam, Firstly, your images are excellent, and clearly whatever camera you are using, your eye is yielding beautiful pictures. I too at first was very frustrated with the quiet (no mechanical) shutter. I think what we both were missing was the "feedback" from the sound/vibration of the mechanics, just being so accustomed to it. But, after a few months of using, honestly now i prefer it! I now use Z8/9 as my primary bodies, and have and love my Zf. I'm an old-school photojournalist who would have been floored to have this tech 30 years ago. Having to shoot weddings, funerals, court proceedings, etc has now revolutionized my thinking/workflow. I will shoot many more images, and better, without the fear of interuption and disturbance at such events! I do still love the feel/sound of old cameras (i started on FM2 and F3) and totally agree that Nikon should easily be able to add more and better sound sims for the shutter though! Simply ridiculous that you can't choose more options (they could even have all of their own classic body shutter sounds)! Enjoyed your observations though, happy shooting! 📷
I own a Z9 , funny story - during an event , I asked someone random to take picures of me and the group I was with , and gave him my camera. Didn't take long for him to tell me that the camera is broken , when in fact he took some 10-15 photos , I showed him and he laughed being that he was used to DSLRs. No doubt the lack of mech shutter requires getting used to , and it took me a bit , but I now see the advantages , silence , better stabilty and sharper photos , and no wear and tear!! I am up to 140K photos with it , and the fact that I don't have to think about it is so liberating!! For more tactile feel , Zf in Nikon is great , any Fuji , Or those with deep pockets - Leica , the Z8 / Z9 are workhorses (actually so are most new canons and Sonys) .
I have a Canon R6 Mark II. And on my Canon there is the option of a shutter with 2 curtains, with 1 curtain, an electronic shutter without any curtain and there is an option to simulate the sound of a shutter as if using the curtains. And there is also a silent option. Which is redundant. I use a fully electronic shutter on my R6 Mark II. I only use the blinds when I need to use external flash. But when I use continuous strong LED light, I use the electronic shutter. I noticed in some photos on Flickr taken with the Nikon Z8, that the images are without DR. With very hard shadows. And now in this video he says the same thing.
The fact that you disabled like/dislike kind of shows that you're self-aware about this, but there's no camera on earth that would look much cleaner than this, when pushing the files this far. You can't push a dark(!) file >3 full stops, boost shadows and complain about noise, this is ridiculous. You may get a somewhat decent result if there are no almost completely black spots in the image, but anything that is this dark is just unreasonable to push this far. The Z8 and Z9 are perfectly in line with the competition in terms of read-noise, very slightly behind similar non-stacked sensors like the R5 or Z7.
Appreciate your approach and openness about the vagaries of testing at different times in different locations ... yet it's still data, and in the end we all have to make decisions with what we encounter. One thought - base iso is 64 (secondary base at 500) on both the z8 and z9, noise does seem to increase in the gap between them a bit. As for myself, often shoot with a z8 / zf pair, different strengths / weaknesses, really like them both. Actually prefer the sound of the z8 when situation calls for more discretion ... to me what I hear is the `sound of precision`. Yet also really like the mechanical sounds from the zf, like them both a lot, just different.
I appreciate your 10k clicks rule for reviews 👍🏻 Fair points / preferences here, just beware of Adobe’s odd processing of the Z8’s RAW files - Capture One makes a world of difference. I did change Lr’s RAW import to Camera Settings in prefs, it seems to make a good difference (and retains Adobe’s translation of Nikon’s Picture Control settings). The lack of mechanical shutter (sound & feel) were tricky to get over for me too, although the tradeoff in speed & accuracy helps me get over that. And I’m considering the Zf as a second body 😎 Lastly, tilt screens forever 🙂😆
I totally get the sound aspect. I had a Z6 before and the sound from the mechanical shutter was so different. Took some time to get used to the sound only minus vibration and it’s not for everyone. The fact that you like the ZF sound much more doesn’t surprise me at all! Great review though Sam.
Appreciate your comments on the Z8... from a Sony A7IV user. Did Nikon make you a left handed version of the Z8? hmm...😕 Why is the video mirrored horizontally from 9 to 10 minute? I see many youtubers seem do this, which is distracting... don't see any reason for this ... perhaps just to test the viewer's attentiveness?🤓
So I haven’t tested this for myself, got my z8 near the end of the fall season and haven’t had any noise issues myself. But I’ve read in many groups that Adobe’s profile for the z8 are kinda trash and that changing your import settings to “camera settings” vs Adobe settings that this will solve these weird noise issues. Worth a try if you have any raw files to try it out with.
totally agree i have both z8 and z9 and am selling my z8 i noticed the colour difference ..my z9 i use for wildlife zf for my vintage lenses and hasselblad X2D 100C hassy best colours ive ever seen period love hate with zf ergonomics still drive me mad but i cant part with the camera
I only shot my first wedding with Z8 last Saturday. After 3,5 years with Z6II it was huge jump for me in terms of camera performance. Honestly, the only thing I would need in Z6II is AF from Z8 and probably better ergonomics. I see no benefits from larger number om mpx. It is truly amazing camera (Z8) but a little too much for most of us. I work with two cameras so I will have to replace the other Z6II with Z8 as well anyway.
I totally agree with you regarding operational tactile experience of Mirrorless cameras; I absolutely love the loud sounds of SLRs from the 70's like the Nikon F2, with this there can be no mistaking that you have made a exposure; I need the sound of the mirror reflexing with that clunk sound and the sound of the shutter curtains which is so reassuring when photographing in a very noisy environment like on subways.
It really comes down to what you shoot. Photographers that shoot a lot of wildlife/sports/action would much prefer the Z8 to the Zf. The Zf appeals to old school shooters that don’t really use the more advanced features or shoot video. Not that the Zf lacks some of those features, but it lacks the customization ability to make those features easy to access.
Everyone is different, which is cool, the “ electronic” sound from the start has not bothered me . Also do not miss the mechanical shutter at all 🙂. When I use the D850 it sounds very loud 🙂. Colors from both the Z9 and Z8 have been fantastic in Capture One with little work, maybe with updates LR has improved. Shooting in the field with both the Z9 and Z8 at the same location the look of the files is identical. Enjoy
perhaps they’re identical in capture one, but would love to see a lightroom classic comparison. capture one is not as well suited for high volume production as lightroom classic
@@iamsamhurdphotography 🙂🙂Everyone has what works best for them. I have had no problems in Capture opOne editing multiple cameras from an event. Have found for me it is faster
Great objetive review, Sam. I didn't expect noise on that file with such little push of the slider. Would you consider share that RAW file for us to try it on different editing software?? Thanks.
Thank you for your video. If the shutter sound is the only drawback, it looks like I need to buy this camera) Many reviews on TH-cam mention the fact that the Z8 (unlike the R5 or A7R5) focuses on the eyelashes instead of the iris. Of course, we are talking about the open aperture of fast lenses. Could you confirm or refute this opinion? Thank you
@@iamsamhurdphotography Thanks for the answer. Well, I actually asked about the difference in the autofocus system under the given conditions that I wrote about above. In any case, the issue has already been resolved. I purchased a Canon R5))
@MrKotische, Eu tenho uma Canon R6 Mark II, e coloquei para venda para comprar a Nikon Z8. Mas depois deste seu depoimento sobre o foco na íris, eu acho que irei cancelar a venda do meu R6II.
@@MrKotische I have a Canon R6 Mark II, and I put it up for sale to buy the Nikon Z8. But after your statement about focusing on the iris, I think I will cancel the sale of my R6II.
I'm glad someone finally came out and said it, possibly the worst grain and dynamic range out of top cameras in the market right now, The sony a7rV has better iso with 60mega pixels, not to mention the horrible quality of the lcd and viewfinder screen. There were times I would double tap the screen and not know if the image was in focus, which is why the battery life is probably so good, and for god sakes, The 50 1.2 is the size of a 70 200mm. I tried it for my wedding photography but returned it after a few weddings, Great color though:)
I have just got my Z8 after saving for 2 yrs >> Wow this is all I need What a camera >> Its amazing how the Consumer American Nation can just returnstuff months after purchasing it >> Here in S Africa >> you would have to sell it
I do not have Nikon, but if I should choose a Nikon camera, then it would be the Nikon Z7II or I would wait for the Z7III. Both the Z8 and Z9 are too big and heavy.
@@iamsamhurdphotography Poor ergonomics for all-day shooting, even if you spend more money for the grip. 🙄 Not to mention less resolution. No landscape shooter would pick the Zf.
The only thing that annoys me at the moment is that I can't use the HSS mode of my studio flashes anymore after firmware update 1.01. You now see the shutter (and yes, the Z8 has a shutter even if it's electronic) on every photo. Before the update, everything just worked fine with HSS... I don't really have that problem with dynamic range since my workflow is different.
I’ve noticed that I can’t go over 1/200 with any of my Godox flashes, with the Z8. At 1/250, I get a black bar across the top of the frame, covers about 20%. I’ll try HSS as well, though I don’t normally use HSS.
@@csc-photo thats your camera flash sync speed. You can't get past the cameras sync speed with any camera. You have to go into HSS. Making sure it's set on your flash as well as in the menu in your camera.
The Z8 & Z9 sensor very quickly falls apart when moving away from the first base ISO of 64. The next base is at 500 at which point it produces cleaner images than ISO 200 when pushed.
I don't know you or your work...nor have I ever watched or looked at any of your work.... but as soon as you started to speak....I knew you were a Canon guy. But I love your photos in this video. Come to think of it they are or were some of the most enjoyable photos I have ever seen on any TH-cam photo channel....will have to check the z9 in Hawaii photos. Fantastic work. Keep using the Nikons.
Firstly I really like your compositions. I’m perplexed as Z8 and Z9 share both sensor, processor and presumably software, why you feel the dynamic range is inferior to the Z9. Secondly hope the low light prowess of the Zf’s sensor will also solve the apparent dynamic range problem, as that’s also been my choice.
zf files have been extremely impressive, but based on my experience and feedback from other people in this thread i’m becoming more convinced that adobe messed something up with their camera calibration profiles. I wouldn’t think this would have anything to do with anemic range so with color but I don’t have both bodies at the same time to test
Another comment: Sam you have got to be very careful when comparing noise that you view both files at same "print" resolution ... ie if you look at 24 mpx files at 100%, then you should compare 45 mpx files at about 60% enlargement ... but you are just indiscriminately zooming with a slider I think, or going to 100% for both ... that being said the 24 mpx Z6ii/Zf does pip the Z8/9 for noise, but not as much as you are displaying ... the flip side which you don't touch on is that the 45 mpx sensor really sings at lower iso for resolution and showing just how great most of the Z lenses really are ...
I don’t have a Nikon but you’re pushing perfectly exposed images and in some cases over exposed… My R5 is noisy when i do that too… But underexpose 3-4 stops and push it and its perfect… IDK. I’ve seen 4-5 unbiased reviews and the shadows pull up nicely and the overexposed stuff you got like 2-3 stops before its noisy…
i mean… do you think i’m faking the results? the entire point of shooting raw is to have a huge range of editing flexibility for both color and exposure/tone. some cameras are better than others at this and it’s an important skill to work on as it can enable a photographer to have very well balanced scenes where images aren’t blown out, or under exposed without having to supplement with flash
It’s funny how polarizing the tilt screen is. I really wish my R3 had the z8/z9 style tilt screen. I find it so much better for still photography. I hate having the screen on the r3 awkwardly sticking out to the side. The canon engineers also completely missed the fact that you can’t shoot tethered with a usb cable plugged in AND use the tilt screen at the same time…
Thanks. That’s also my opinion with tilt screens. I also find the solution of the Nikon z8 and z9 the very best solution for photographers. Videographers is a totally different story. I find it very surprising how Sam’s opinion, just as a photographer, was more towards the Canon R3.
yup, i hated it at first back when i switched to the canon r, but after i got used to it im convinced it’s much more comfortable and discreet to use canons tilt approach! all down to personal preference of course
The rear screen on the Sony A7RV has to be the best as it keeps everyone happy. I HATE the flip out style screen, shooting from the waist and having to look to the side of the camera is not for me. I know on my Sony A7iv and canon cameras when the screen is out to the side it's not square with the camera making getting your lines straight that little bit harder. I now have the Z8 and love the rear screen, if I move to Nikon from Sony I will most likely get twoZ and a Z6III once out
Agreed! I actually didn’t buy an R5 because the screen. Was switching from an XT5 and landed on the Nikon Z8. I had a Z7ii and couldn’t do it because I needed that 3 way tilt. SO much better for photography for me. Flip out screen is for bloggers and really extreme angles we shoot in like 0.1% of our photos
Is the dynamic range better on the Nikon Zf compared to the Z8? Are you concerned that the shutter life of the Zf is only about 200k clicks? I have no idea how much it costs to replace it or how long it takes to Nikon support fix it. My cameras have more than 300k and going strong and my Z9 doesn't have this issues as it doesn't have a mechanical shutter. Great video as always!
@@JeffDietzphoto something is going on where it's not just the sensor. I still love mine but there's less dynamic range and introduces noise faster when bumping up the shadows
Interesting review and appreciate the time you took. Regarding the dynamic range, I’m surprised with those results given specs (as you were). I’m curious if you tried pushing the files with the exposure slider before applying presets and edits (I saw that you had already adjusted highlight and shadows when demonstrating). It’s possible the Z8 files respond differently to the presets. Might be good to explore again with only the exposure slider.
good question! I always use the same preset across every camera so, in relative terms I can tell that the banding is more prominent than other sensors. the zf files (also the Sony a7r4, and a9ii) do not respond this way with the same preset. just took a look and with *no* preset apply the banding is less severe (my preset pushes and pulls images a lot), but it's still there.
Nice, thanks for checking it out. Yeah, I guess we don’t get a free lunch. We can either take the noise and get the resolution/stacked sensor, or go smaller res and less noise. Thanks for the examples and thoughtful review.
@@iamsamhurdphotography glad I keyword searched and found this question because I had the same one after watching your video today. You also mentioned that lightroom seems to have messed up the color profile rendering. Assuming that color profile has been updated since, are you still of the opinion that there is a sensor issue - or objectively can you say that your editing method (significantly punched up shadows and highlights) compounds the issue when then pushing exposure?
@@kurtstephan3281 I can take a look at the same files with any recent updates adobe has pushed and report back if there's any significant change. I can absolutely say my post processing does objectively compound the issue of exposing poor dynamic range/noisy shadows, but it doesn't change my assessment because I use my same starting editing preset on pretty much every camera I shoot with, and I've used the same edits in the basics panel (highlights, shadows, whites, blacks) for about a decade now. a good example is that Zf sensor as this is not nearly as big an issue
My question is how would you compare the images with the d850, I have noticed the z8 is colder. I know easily remedied. Just curious. I appreciate your honesty . Thanks great video.
I did shoot for years with the D850 and consider it the pinnacle of DSLR‘s, but sadly don’t have one to do a direct comparison, and I can’t exactly remember how the files handle enough to voice an opinion. it seems like Adobe has created a bad camera calibration profile. They’ve actually done that before w/ another camera I owned the eos r.
@@iamsamhurdphotography According to "Photons to Photos", your "pinnacle of DSLRs" has ever so slightly more DR (about 1/3 stop) than the Z8 under ISO 400, and 1:1 the same above. 🤭
you're clearly a whitesheet/stats person... I am a practical use person. as I've used both cameras extensively, all I can say is the z8 files crumble easily in lightroom, far more than d850 - simple as that. feel free to make your own video and send me the link if you want to, but I think we both know you won't @@cy9nvs
@@iamsamhurdphotography So practical, that you can't even be bothered to back that wrong claim up with actual evidence. A TH-camr of your size should be able to do that, but hey, I guess having "I sent it back" in the thumbnail and bashing a product that is so widely praised has its financial perks regardless, so... 🤷🏼♂️
@@iamsamhurdphotography Also, DPReview has a tool where you can compare test shots which were under exposed by 3 stops and brought back. The z8 is perfectly in line with the competition and ever so slightly behind the d750, which is mainly because it's image in general is a lot softer, due to the lower resolution.
I purchased a Z8 and I am not the hugest fan of the 100% electronic shutter either. The other thing is the lack detailed textures vs noise even at Lower iso. It’s not only a noise problem but I think it’s related to the sensor combined with the electronic rolling shutter : it’s not able to align pixels to represent details perfectly when pixel peeping. When I zoom on textiles and face detail, the pixels are a mix between color artifacts and are not forming an even texture. It’s weird never had that with any other Nikon camera or sigma Quattro H.
@@iamsamhurdphotography no I am actually using latest Nikon NX studio for all the raw/nef adjustments, then I finish the 16bit Tiff work on photoshop (if needed) or just batch process to jpeg for events. I strongly believe that this is linked to the cmos sensor / fully electronic rolling shutter. I experienced similar lack of texture & false color artefacts issues with the GX9 when using the electronic shutter only. (Not even speaking of the usual banding and deformed moving objects which is always 100%related to rolling shutter / electronic shutter issues)
Tilt screens FTW. I just got a Zfc that has the flippy screen and it's so much more annoying to use vs. my Z6 where I can just tlit it out real quick. Tilt screen you have to flip it out and rotate it, then it's over to the left...it's just annoying and too much effort.
There must be a billion to one ratio of images coming out today compared to 40 years ago, why is there not an appreciable improvement in top images with all of the tech?
you raise a good point, but what you're not seeing is the mental load and time improvements in the process of making images now vs 40 years ago. it's 1000% more efficient and less stressful to make the same "top images" now.
@@iamsamhurdphotography correct I didn’t take that point into account, especially with the work flow your occupation demands. I’m thinking of art in general, music movies and photography, compared to 30 years ago sometimes it’s feeling a bit soulless. Your photography videos are very well done and appreciated, I’d love to hear you talk about some of the most personal meaningful images and why sometime, that would be awesome from someone like you
Excellent review of this computer with a lens. Able to produce very sharp pictures ....... This is more a computer than a camera. Your comment about the colours is certainly valid. Does any lady above 35 wants her picture taken with the z8 and a 50 mm 1.2 S or with the Nikon em and the 1.8 ais? @@iamsamhurdphotography
@@bleubaker I believe the late Mark Fisher had a lot of sensible things to say about the issue of art production. His take is that nothing substantially new has happened in the arts since about the late 80ies. One reason is that the means of art production are ever more lopsidedly distributed. His prime example is punk music, which could only happen because back in the 1970s there was a huge squatter scene in London, where young and poor artists could meet, exchange their ideas and work together. Compare that with today, where an average camera costs 2.000 bucks which excludes most of humanity. Same in art schools, which have been degraded into basically a hobby horse for rich children.
@@iamsamhurdphotography strange you should say that as I did think that originally coming from lightroom, but quickly found it much faster to work with. I originally bought it for a project that needed a lot of teatherd shooting and not for the processing, but then started to like the results better.
I believe the issue with Z8 files lies in how Adobe (LR/CR) is handling them. I observed that the color temperature and tint do not match the camera settings, and that this is not a problem with Z9 files. Depending on the camera profile used, the shadow areas can break apart (noise, banding) sooner than using camera matching profiles, as they are less prone to issues. For instance, your BitDepthCS profile has roughly a one-stop exposure disadvantage compared to Camera Standard when using identical develop settings. As mentioned below, using Nikon's NX Studio, the same file can be pushed up to five stops with less noise and without banding. Unfortunately, Studio NX is far from an ideal Pro workflow "buddy". Exporting to .TIFF, then importing to Lightroom/CR, is the quickest workaround, but it sacrifices time, storage, and, most importantly, a non-destructive workflow.
@@iamsamhurdphotography Most Welcome. It appears that Capture One offers a more accurate interpretation of Z8 files, closely mirroring the results obtained in NX. Utilising comparable development settings (your GainStagePro base w/ BithDepth CS profile) in the C1 trial version yielded no banding and significantly reduced noise compared to Lightroom when pushing exposure to four stops and further increasing the Brightness value. So for those with the Z8 and considering either LR or Capture One, I would recommend conducting thorough testing to determine which software best suits their needs. ( my embedded Adobe workflow makes a switch impractical at this time..)
I don’t know if I would ever edit the way you are. In my experience it’s best to shoot a touch over exposed or a touch under exposed, not full stops. I haven’t had any of these issues with the Z8.
I've been editing this way for 8+ years. I'm extremely familiar with the limits of allllll kinds of sensors - and with many it's not this noticeable an issue. I used to be able to push Nikon d850 files 4 stops at base iso. it's mostly just a consequence of the huge resolution in the z8.
Well... All by all, the z8 is not a great camera. I own a z8 and had 810, 850. I agree the dinamic range is lesser. But. Both mirror cameras, and i owned two bodies of each, had what i believe a chronic mirror house issues that went out of calibration ater like 12.000 shots or so. No other nikon body, apart the z9, had the focus and video ability the z8 had and went close to them in resolution, that i need shooting wildlife. Yet, its focus is not that great for fast moving object, and in a bit darker conditions- bad. I feel The mirror system had been more accurate in the dark. The click sound is an issue, as well as the crippled ability compere to z9 that i believe is artificial. But the z9 is way too heavy and bulky for me.
TL;DW: He got the Zf because he preferred the shutter sound and a flippy screen. There, I saved you 16 minutes! 😅😅 Quote from the end: "I'm very impressed; very happy with it [Z8]" But he preferred the aesthetics of the Zf - this is totally fair, but the video thumbnail was misleading clickbait tbh as it sounds like OP actually liked the features that most people are watching reviews to learn about.
@@Daniel_Ilyich I really just enjoy trolling TH-cam comments. unless someone takes the time to make their own rebuttal video - I literally don't care what someone says here
@@iamsamhurdphotography aren’t you a busy man? If you really didn’t care, you wouldn’t give him the time of day. The whole purpose of his comment was to get your attention.
I didn't care for this review when you mentioned shutter sound, then you had me at pinky finger.🙄 Sorry, but I want function over form. I do however like the autofocus info and info on noise in the portrait photos.
the banding usually occurs at high iso, or when you need to push and pull the files in post. I wouldn't under expose like that if it wasn't such a contrasty/high dynamic range kind of photo with the sun in the background and dark shadows in the foreground. in short, I underexposed for a reason - to retain as many highlights as possible, but the tradeoff is banding when you recover the shadows. many camera sensors are much better about this than the z8 sensor as I can usually recover 4+ stops with no banding. worth noting the z8 has a huge sensor size and you can downsize a lot to minimize the banding, but I hate having to take that extra step.
absolutely I have! I've shot nearly every Sony body since their first mirrorless a7. most of them are short articles not videos, but I don't have any ultra long reviews, because I don't like reviewing things I don't end up keeping. I made the exception for the z8 because it ties into the zf, which I did keep. here's a Sony review from long ago www.samhurdphotography.com/reviews/sony-a7s-review-sony-a7s-vs-a7r/
move the Texture Slider to neutral position (11:50) and use sharpening only together with masking slider - this will not remove the problem with reduced DR but I guess the noise will be less apparent. Its usually good to start with neutral settings on the LR slider side. Adobe profiles also can make a difference when you import RAW files. This might have been fixed in the mean time. D850 was the DR king on low Iso - the Z8 is nearly 2 ev behind as far as DxO rankings show.
Dear Sam, I think you should start getting used to an electronic sound from your camera. In a very few years all the top cameras from all the brands will be shutterless…
i agree, but if there is no negative tradeoff using a body that has a mechanical shutter then i’ll always opt for that. no real reason to get the z8 with the zf out haha
The sound (or not) of a click is enough to send it back. I have a Z7ll and have it set to 'Silent Shutter', took no getting used to. Maybe you're just a little too 'picky', to return a camera because of a sound is ludicrous, there are so many more features that may or may not be valid reasons to keep or return a body. I see you have more than 17,000 subscribers but with level of small-mindedness I won't be signing up. I'm not being nasty or trolling, your reasons, IMHO, don't make sense, sorry.
you're definitely right... I am picky, and it's because i have to deal with making 250,000+ frames per year. if I don't absolutely love the experience... it's going back. the sound effect is just not for me... simple as that. it seems like that would be an obvious thing to understand, but maybe I just shoot too much!
I also found that adobe software doesn’t edit the raw files that nice, lots of noise and artefacts. Via nx studio things are so much better. The sensor is more than capable, test show.
for sure - the example photos i used were actually iso 200 so what’s your point? it wasn’t a scientific test, but it still should have performed much better than it did even at iso 200
You are very defensive in your comments. You don’t have to be. You have nothing to justify. You and your opinions are you. Just keep on walking along and singing your song, I love my white shoes, I love my white shoes.
I miss the sound of my mech shutter, but it’s not a deal breaker to me. The Nikon FEELS great to hold and to photograph for me. I’m coming from a XT5, GFX and a R5 and the XT5 had the most satisfying shutter of all time. And yet when I’m out in the field with the Nikon, I just FEEL good. It feels good to compose, to frame, to set the EVF brightness to max and see such a clear image. But that’s just me. I will always miss my shutter on the XT5 but it never made me feel this good. On a side note if you read this. I’m CONFUSED. You’re talking about dynamic range pushing your exposure slider, but your shadows are already boosted? Doesn’t boosting the shadows already start to step into noise so your doing both on top? I haven’t had a noise issue with the Z8, but I am coming from a crop sensor. But comparing it to the GfX I had used I’m not feeling a big difference either.
yeah if the z8 feels good to you then that’s definitely all that matters. as far as dynamic range - the shadows slider vs highlights etc is all about creating an overall look that i like. all the settings you see (other than exposure) are almost always locked in place for any image i edit, whether it needs a lot of dynamic range or not. this enables a lot of consistency in editing, but yes - it will expose sensor noise more quickly. it’s usually not a problem (i’ve used the general same editing preset i made since like 2013), which is why the z8 files surprised me so much
So one comment you made in the video seemed oddly deceiving, or maybe over our heads lol At one point your showing a face and your saying look I can still see the face but when I push the exposure slider look at all the noise. But the shadows were already boosted. It seems like unfair comparison. With the shadows being boosted, it was probably almost black. The boosted shadows barely revealed the face, and then of course using the exposure slider is going to generate a ton of noise because it was SO under exposed. If the photo was like that without the shadows being boosted to the max, it would be more understandable. It just either seemed like a habitual oversight or unfair statement on noise.
i’m not entirely sure which moments you’re referring to, but it shouldn’t be deceiving when i always use the same position for the shadow slider on all sensors that i compare. this isn’t a scientific experiment - im just making observations based on how i always edit, which is the same across all camera bodies. there have been numerous other comments stating that adobe botched the camera profile so maybe the sensor doesn’t perform as poorly as it appeared - i don’t really know at this point. all i can share is what i experienced at the place and time
@@iamsamhurdphotography Sam I saw your videos. And you make me think… when I first shot with the Z9, I was blown away exactly for the colours… but I waited for the Z8 expecting the same. I am seeing the noise. Is it possible for you to use the bodies side by side and see the difference just to be sure… I think everyone of your audience is in 2 minds now
yeah, i don’t think that’s true… at all. maybe if you’re just randomly shooting, but if you take tens of thousands of photos per month it’s little things like that that add up to huge annoyances. reaction time is also better when you can feel it.
Perhaps a little harsh but I agree that rejecting a camera you otherwise like because you can't get used to the sound is curious, especially since Nikon could easily add other sounds via firmware subject to demand. I honestly don't even know what other sounds my Z9 can make. I'm more surprised that anyone would want their camera to vibrate. I wonder what engineers who have toiled for decades to suppress vibration would make of that. No doubt future generations of mirrorless and mechanical shutter-less camera will incorporate some kind of simulated haptic feedback, which will be fine by me as long as there's an off switch! I guess you can't please everyone.
all down to personal preference, but it comes down to feel. I don't literally want the camera to entirely vibrate, but can you *not* imagine why i want a tactile experience? it generates a deeper experience that I can feel and react too more quickly. the sounds are one thing, but the articulating screen is the main reason I bailed on it. it's not directional enough, and very limiting compared to alternatives. again, personal preference, but 100% true for my style, which works.@@way2deep100
@@iamsamhurdphotography I actually do understand about style dictating decision-making. I’m simply saying there is wisdom in adapting to incremental change as it happens, especially as a young person, rather than relying on an ability to adapt to significant enforced change down the line. My car, for example, has lots of buttons and traditional potentiometer-style controls. My son, on the other hand, waves, prods at a screen and has conversations with his car. He tells me he will soon be able to choose to make it drive itself and I suspect he will live long enough for this to no longer be his choice. I have driven cars for almost 50 years but would resemble a new-born baby faced with the prospect of operating my son’s contraption because I’ve based my vehicle purchasing decisions on my desire to resist rather than embrace change. It’s not difficult to imagine that the need to cut component and assembly costs will eventually extend to cameras. By the middle of the century, photographers may have no choice but to wave, prod and talk to their new cameras; cameras which will have been silent for years due to noise abatement regulations. I’m not even sure I’m joking! I also understand why a fully articulating screen would be useful in some situations. Less than a month after I got my Z9, I set it down on my backpack with the screen extended. It subsequently fell off and rolled once or twice. It didn’t fall far - perhaps 12 to 14 inches - and it was more of a tumble onto a grass slope than a crash to the ground. I’m nevertheless convinced that most fully articulating screen-equipped cameras would have sustained at least some damage in similar circumstances while the Z9’s screen shrugged it off and may even have helped halt the tumble. Fully articulating screens aren’t a mystery to Nikon, who made a conscious decision to construct their ‘pro’ mirrorless cameras to withstand abuse typical of professional environments. The salesperson who sold me my Z9 demonstrated this by picking his demo model up by its screen. Not recommended but my wallet felt inspired to come out. Don’t get me wrong, if a front-facing screen was something I thought I’d ever need, I would have rejected the Z9 just as you rejected the Z8. But I’m old school and shot film exclusively until 20 years ago. The Z9’s albeit limited articulation is a useful luxury because my body resists getting into certain positions these days. In five or ten years’ time my body won’t articulate quite as well as it does today, which is why a screen that almost certainly will happens to suit me.
The dynamic range of this camera is shocking to me. I expect more from a camera at this level. I have been waiting for the Z6 III and I expect more from it as well.
more click bait nonsense titles "I sent it back"... well of course you did... it was a loaner
I actually bought one before nikon sent me the loaner... I also sent it back. I decided to give it another try with the loaner... and it did not hold up.
I really question it being the camera that is the issue... @@iamsamhurdphotography
@@iamsamhurdphotography haha I see now... you are upset that you can't bring back photos that are massively under exposed by 5 stops. There is an easy way around that which is to learn off camera lighting. And you are a canon shooter trying out Nikon... which... boggles the mind if you think canon is better straight out of camera, unless you like soft images. Canon is massively soft out of camera, colors are oversaturated and from my testing at least... they crush their shadow details and have far less dynamic range
but hey... go with what you like.
It just seems weird that Nikon is sending their cameras for testing to a Canon guy.
"it did not hold up" is just a weird statement
I really don't have time beyond a simple comment to dive into this, but google me and learn about my background before making so many assumptions! you really think I don't know off camera light? or didn't shoot nikon for a decade.@@JeffDietzphoto
you say in the video you use canon... in the video you are trying to massively underexpose an image to get the sky exposed and then being upset at trying to pull the image back from being underexposed... instead of off camera lighting would have solved your issue. Your conclusion of "it didn't hold up" sorry just comes off as weird to me given what you were trying to do with it. And then you are also seemingly upset that a camera that doesn't have a shutter doesn't have a shutter feel for you... You claim you tested the z9 as well so you should have already known that. I own the z9 as well and the silence is actually amazing depending on what you are photographing. Imagine as a wedding photographer or any photojournalist, wildlife, pets etc. And then you just add the fake noise when needed. It also has multiple indicators you can change in camera to see in the EVF to indicate a shot was taken when silent. @@iamsamhurdphotography
From a wildlife photographers perspective, I had to laugh when you complained about the lack of shutter sound! This goes to show that everyones tastes are different. I've had my Z8 for a month now and it's hands down the best camera I've ever used. The AF is like a cheat code.
yeah, that’s a big reason i show my actual photos made with the camera at the beginning and throughout. i still think the zf is the better camera tho ;)
LOL.@@iamsamhurdphotography
Adobe seems to do something funky with the Z8/Z9 raw files. They have a lot more noise than would be expected even for low ISO images. When you open them up in NX Studio or Capture One, the shadows are much cleaner. You may want to try that to see if you get any difference.
I agree I think the fault might come down to adobe's camera profiles for these - I really do think the z9 files edit differently than the z8 in Lightroom, and that doesn't make much sense given they're the same sensor
Years ago I noticed my images in LR don’t look the same as in NX Studio or how they look on the rear screen. I had a preset that I used during import to make things a bit better. I eventually stopped using LR. These days when I shoot, I do any edits in NX Studio. Thought about another product but, as I’m no longer doing any paid gigs and just shooting for myself, NX Studio is enough for me.
stacked sensor have more noises anyway
@@ducnguyen1999Non mechanical shutter cameras have high noise especially in shadows. I’d buy a real camera like the Nikon ZF or any Sony, canon.
@@lewcehjitl3282 i did shot z8 higher noise overall compare to 780 o
Gonna be honest here. Your images are absolutely fantastic. Loved them. But the cons you mentioned are kind of silly. I can maybe understand the lack of DR or the articulation of screen but shutter sound is your main con?
I'm confused how you can't actually relate to that? The sound (or lack of) of the shutter is absolutely not silly to me. If it isn't deeply satisfying then it's a problem when I shoot 250k images a year. I also enjoy the tactical feedback of the shutter moving a little bit. The Zf has a nearly perfect shutter sound, which I've been very happy with. I think through these things a lot as it informs everything about my process, which informs how well my photos turn out.
@@iamsamhurdphotography That’s what I’m saying. Your photos turned out great. The shutter sound didn’t affect the outcome at all. Maybe a minor inconvenience (if even that) in the photo taking process but a major con where you didn’t event want the camera? Honestly, most people including myself couldn’t care less about the shutter sound if the camera is this good.
the shutter sound annoyed me the whole time so I can guarantee it did effect the outcome. this is something that's not really measurable, which is why opinions matter. it's great that the photos were still great, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't enjoy making them as much as I would have with another camera. @@sammadonline
Sam,
Firstly, your images are excellent, and clearly whatever camera you are using, your eye is yielding beautiful pictures. I too at first was very frustrated with the quiet (no mechanical) shutter. I think what we both were missing was the "feedback" from the sound/vibration of the mechanics, just being so accustomed to it. But, after a few months of using, honestly now i prefer it! I now use Z8/9 as my primary bodies, and have and love my Zf. I'm an old-school photojournalist who would have been floored to have this tech 30 years ago. Having to shoot weddings, funerals, court proceedings, etc has now revolutionized my thinking/workflow. I will shoot many more images, and better, without the fear of interuption and disturbance at such events! I do still love the feel/sound of old cameras (i started on FM2 and F3) and totally agree that Nikon should easily be able to add more and better sound sims for the shutter though! Simply ridiculous that you can't choose more options (they could even have all of their own classic body shutter sounds)! Enjoyed your observations though, happy shooting! 📷
i appreciate your insights here and thanks for taking the time
Enter FW 2.0, Thanks Nikon :)
The images are really bad.... really bad....
so bad @@vladepast4936
I just came here for the pictures. I don't give a hoot about camera bodies bla bla bla camera. Your photos are total eye candy ❤😊
that’s totally fine too lol
I own a Z9 , funny story - during an event , I asked someone random to take picures of me and the group I was with , and gave him my camera.
Didn't take long for him to tell me that the camera is broken , when in fact he took some 10-15 photos , I showed him and he laughed being that he was used to DSLRs.
No doubt the lack of mech shutter requires getting used to , and it took me a bit , but I now see the advantages , silence , better stabilty and sharper photos , and no wear and tear!!
I am up to 140K photos with it , and the fact that I don't have to think about it is so liberating!!
For more tactile feel , Zf in Nikon is great , any Fuji , Or those with deep pockets - Leica , the Z8 / Z9 are workhorses (actually so are most new canons and Sonys) .
I have a Canon R6 Mark II. And on my Canon there is the option of a shutter with 2 curtains, with 1 curtain, an electronic shutter without any curtain and there is an option to simulate the sound of a shutter as if using the curtains. And there is also a silent option. Which is redundant. I use a fully electronic shutter on my R6 Mark II. I only use the blinds when I need to use external flash. But when I use continuous strong LED light, I use the electronic shutter.
I noticed in some photos on Flickr taken with the Nikon Z8, that the images are without DR. With very hard shadows. And now in this video he says the same thing.
The fact that you disabled like/dislike kind of shows that you're self-aware about this, but there's no camera on earth that would look much cleaner than this, when pushing the files this far.
You can't push a dark(!) file >3 full stops, boost shadows and complain about noise, this is ridiculous. You may get a somewhat decent result if there are no almost completely black spots in the image, but anything that is this dark is just unreasonable to push this far. The Z8 and Z9 are perfectly in line with the competition in terms of read-noise, very slightly behind similar non-stacked sensors like the R5 or Z7.
did i? sorry i don’t pay attention to stuff like that. i previously had comments off entirely - mostly because of comments like yours
@@iamsamhurdphotography yeah, mostly because of people criticizing your ridiculous statements, is what you're trying to say, I guess. 🤭
What a joke
@@cy9nvs well, you did make me laugh so I'll give you that
@@iamsamhurdphotography whatever makes you feel better, you really can't take criticism.
not when it's an incorrect or misinformed critique, nope.@@cy9nvs
Appreciate your approach and openness about the vagaries of testing at different times in different locations ... yet it's still data, and in the end we all have to make decisions with what we encounter.
One thought - base iso is 64 (secondary base at 500) on both the z8 and z9, noise does seem to increase in the gap between them a bit.
As for myself, often shoot with a z8 / zf pair, different strengths / weaknesses, really like them both. Actually prefer the sound of the z8 when situation calls for more discretion ... to me what I hear is the `sound of precision`. Yet also really like the mechanical sounds from the zf, like them both a lot, just different.
well said!
I appreciate your 10k clicks rule for reviews 👍🏻 Fair points / preferences here, just beware of Adobe’s odd processing of the Z8’s RAW files - Capture One makes a world of difference. I did change Lr’s RAW import to Camera Settings in prefs, it seems to make a good difference (and retains Adobe’s translation of Nikon’s Picture Control settings).
The lack of mechanical shutter (sound & feel) were tricky to get over for me too, although the tradeoff in speed & accuracy helps me get over that. And I’m considering the Zf as a second body 😎
Lastly, tilt screens forever 🙂😆
can you tell me more about the Adobe's raw processing of files? I did a search and can't narrow it down.
does that import change just change the camera calibration profile to "camera standard" or something else?
I love capture one, It was great with my old D750. But can't complain with my A7R5 it still a great bit of software
I actually love these colors! I have both the z8 and z9 and I now really wanna get your preset for these tones!!
I totally get the sound aspect. I had a Z6 before and the sound from the mechanical shutter was so different. Took some time to get used to the sound only minus vibration and it’s not for everyone. The fact that you like the ZF sound much more doesn’t surprise me at all! Great review though Sam.
thanks! glad you agree. i have no doubt many people are fine with the sound and no shutter feel!
Love how you framed some faces inside O in Nikon in intro
Subtle yet strong
glad someone noticed haha
@@iamsamhurdphotography mind of the photographer 😅
I’ve found I really enjoy my Z8 for fast action, but I prefer my Zf for literally everything else.
that sums it up nicely tbh
Appreciate your thoughts - your post processing is not my cup of tea, but its important to keep true to your style and way of working.
cool, thanks
He sent it back because not even a $4k camera can help him take better pictures.
Appreciate your comments on the Z8... from a Sony A7IV user.
Did Nikon make you a left handed version of the Z8? hmm...😕
Why is the video mirrored horizontally from 9 to 10 minute?
I see many youtubers seem do this, which is distracting... don't see any reason for this ... perhaps just to test the viewer's attentiveness?🤓
no reason for the flip, just total accident
A wildlife photographer can hit 10k in 1-2 days at a very productive location doing for example birds in flight 😅
So I haven’t tested this for myself, got my z8 near the end of the fall season and haven’t had any noise issues myself. But I’ve read in many groups that Adobe’s profile for the z8 are kinda trash and that changing your import settings to “camera settings” vs Adobe settings that this will solve these weird noise issues. Worth a try if you have any raw files to try it out with.
tried it and not seeing much of a difference! thanks for the idea tho
totally agree i have both z8 and z9 and am selling my z8 i noticed the colour difference ..my z9 i use for wildlife zf for my vintage lenses and hasselblad X2D 100C hassy best colours ive ever seen period love hate with zf ergonomics still drive me mad but i cant part with the camera
glad someone else can confirm!
I only shot my first wedding with Z8 last Saturday. After 3,5 years with Z6II it was huge jump for me in terms of camera performance. Honestly, the only thing I would need in Z6II is AF from Z8 and probably better ergonomics. I see no benefits from larger number om mpx. It is truly amazing camera (Z8) but a little too much for most of us.
I work with two cameras so I will have to replace the other Z6II with Z8 as well anyway.
yeah, that’s a reflection about how awful the z6ii was.
I totally agree with you regarding operational tactile experience of Mirrorless cameras; I absolutely love the loud sounds of SLRs from the 70's like the Nikon F2, with this there can be no mistaking that you have made a exposure; I need the sound of the mirror reflexing with that clunk sound and the sound of the shutter curtains which is so reassuring when photographing in a very noisy environment like on subways.
We really need the Z6 III video 😃
i’m so content with the zf tho lol
It really comes down to what you shoot. Photographers that shoot a lot of wildlife/sports/action would much prefer the Z8 to the Zf. The Zf appeals to old school shooters that don’t really use the more advanced features or shoot video. Not that the Zf lacks some of those features, but it lacks the customization ability to make those features easy to access.
10000% which is why I like to show a lot of photos during my review. every photo in my review was from the z8 unless otherwise stated
Everyone is different, which is cool, the “ electronic” sound from the start has not bothered me . Also do not miss the mechanical shutter at all 🙂. When I use the D850 it sounds very loud 🙂.
Colors from both the Z9 and Z8 have been fantastic in Capture One with little work, maybe with updates LR has improved. Shooting in the field with both the Z9 and Z8 at the same location the look of the files is identical.
Enjoy
perhaps they’re identical in capture one, but would love to see a lightroom classic comparison. capture one is not as well suited for high volume production as lightroom classic
@@iamsamhurdphotography 🙂🙂Everyone has what works best for them. I have had no problems in Capture opOne editing multiple cameras from an event. Have found for me it is faster
that’s surprising! i’ve tried to switch to them for many years but it’s nowhere close for speed and file management
Capture one is vastly superior and image processing out of the box. agree
Great objetive review, Sam. I didn't expect noise on that file with such little push of the slider. Would you consider share that RAW file for us to try it on different editing software?? Thanks.
great video. that noise concerns me. not something i suffer with on a d850. that’s disappointing
Thank you for your video. If the shutter sound is the only drawback, it looks like I need to buy this camera) Many reviews on TH-cam mention the fact that the Z8 (unlike the R5 or A7R5) focuses on the eyelashes instead of the iris. Of course, we are talking about the open aperture of fast lenses. Could you confirm or refute this opinion? Thank you
main issue here is adobe’s image quality
@@iamsamhurdphotography Thanks for the answer. Well, I actually asked about the difference in the autofocus system under the given conditions that I wrote about above. In any case, the issue has already been resolved. I purchased a Canon R5))
@MrKotische, Eu tenho uma Canon R6 Mark II, e coloquei para venda para comprar a Nikon Z8. Mas depois deste seu depoimento sobre o foco na íris, eu acho que irei cancelar a venda do meu R6II.
@@MrKotische I have a Canon R6 Mark II, and I put it up for sale to buy the Nikon Z8. But after your statement about focusing on the iris, I think I will cancel the sale of my R6II.
@@michelecintramika8482 aha. I see. Ok. Thank you. It is a answer for my question. 🤝
I'm glad someone finally came out and said it, possibly the worst grain and dynamic range out of top cameras in the market right now, The sony a7rV has better iso with 60mega pixels, not to mention the horrible quality of the lcd and viewfinder screen. There were times I would double tap the screen and not know if the image was in focus, which is why the battery life is probably so good, and for god sakes, The 50 1.2 is the size of a 70 200mm. I tried it for my wedding photography but returned it after a few weddings, Great color though:)
yup yup.
I agree that looking through the photos is essential! So is looking at the wardrobe choices of the vlogger. =) Who made your shirt, please? Love it!
thanks! Todd Snyder
ISO is best thought of as signal to noise ratio. Feed the camera some signal and you will have less noise.
very true, but some cameras need less signal than others before noise is introduced
I have just got my Z8 after saving for 2 yrs >> Wow this is all I need What a camera >> Its amazing how the Consumer American Nation can just returnstuff months after purchasing it >> Here in S Africa >> you would have to sell it
yeah there are pretty generous return policies in the US, but i’m sending it back because nikon loaned it to me directly
Had the same experience, i was shocked by the amount of noise and grain. Immediately returned it.
Your beautiful photos make me want to take photos of people - which says a lot from a wildlife and nature photographer 👍
that’s very kind, thanks. i started w/ nature and now i’m almost always bored by a photo of there isn’t a person in it!
I do not have Nikon, but if I should choose a Nikon camera, then it would be the Nikon Z7II or I would wait for the Z7III. Both the Z8 and Z9 are too big and heavy.
the zf is the way to go imo
@@iamsamhurdphotography 🤣 No way !
@@iamsamhurdphotography Poor ergonomics for all-day shooting, even if you spend more money for the grip. 🙄 Not to mention less resolution. No landscape shooter would pick the Zf.
The only thing that annoys me at the moment is that I can't use the HSS mode of my studio flashes anymore after firmware update 1.01. You now see the shutter (and yes, the Z8 has a shutter even if it's electronic) on every photo. Before the update, everything just worked fine with HSS...
I don't really have that problem with dynamic range since my workflow is different.
the dynamic range certainly wouldn’t be a concern for everyone - especially if you shoot with OCF
@SamHurdPhoto It's also no problem when I shoot with available light outdoors.
I’ve noticed that I can’t go over 1/200 with any of my Godox flashes, with the Z8. At 1/250, I get a black bar across the top of the frame, covers about 20%. I’ll try HSS as well, though I don’t normally use HSS.
@@csc-photo thats your camera flash sync speed. You can't get past the cameras sync speed with any camera. You have to go into HSS. Making sure it's set on your flash as well as in the menu in your camera.
The Z8 & Z9 sensor very quickly falls apart when moving away from the first base ISO of 64. The next base is at 500 at which point it produces cleaner images than ISO 200 when pushed.
I don't know you or your work...nor have I ever watched or looked at any of your work.... but as soon as you started to speak....I knew you were a Canon guy.
But I love your photos in this video.
Come to think of it they are or were some of the most enjoyable photos I have ever seen on any TH-cam photo channel....will have to check the z9 in Hawaii photos.
Fantastic work. Keep using the Nikons.
I actually identify as Nikon, but yeah
I am Nikon Z8 User and am absolutely satisfied with it.
So do whatever you like.
cool, i will!
Battery power is horrible
Camera sounds. Go to settings. Camera sounds-shutter sounds. There you can choose between 5 different sounds.
i’m aware! i don’t like them, and you still lose the tactile feel of the physical shutter curtain
So you like your ZFs a lot better?
yup, a lot
@@iamsamhurdphotographyhow come?
th-cam.com/video/Oex-BoJnC8Q/w-d-xo.html @@Jgheiler
Firstly I really like your compositions. I’m perplexed as Z8 and Z9 share both sensor, processor and presumably software, why you feel the dynamic range is inferior to the Z9. Secondly hope the low light prowess of the Zf’s sensor will also solve the apparent dynamic range problem, as that’s also been my choice.
zf files have been extremely impressive, but based on my experience and feedback from other people in this thread i’m becoming more convinced that adobe messed something up with their camera calibration profiles. I wouldn’t think this would have anything to do with anemic range so with color but I don’t have both bodies at the same time to test
Another comment: Sam you have got to be very careful when comparing noise that you view both files at same "print" resolution ... ie if you look at 24 mpx files at 100%, then you should compare 45 mpx files at about 60% enlargement ... but you are just indiscriminately zooming with a slider I think, or going to 100% for both ... that being said the 24 mpx Z6ii/Zf does pip the Z8/9 for noise, but not as much as you are displaying ... the flip side which you don't touch on is that the 45 mpx sensor really sings at lower iso for resolution and showing just how great most of the Z lenses really are ...
i’m aware!
I don’t have a Nikon but you’re pushing perfectly exposed images and in some cases over exposed…
My R5 is noisy when i do that too…
But underexpose 3-4 stops and push it and its perfect…
IDK. I’ve seen 4-5 unbiased reviews and the shadows pull up nicely and the overexposed stuff you got like 2-3 stops before its noisy…
i mean… do you think i’m faking the results? the entire point of shooting raw is to have a huge range of editing flexibility for both color and exposure/tone. some cameras are better than others at this and it’s an important skill to work on as it can enable a photographer to have very well balanced scenes where images aren’t blown out, or under exposed without having to supplement with flash
It’s funny how polarizing the tilt screen is. I really wish my R3 had the z8/z9 style tilt screen. I find it so much better for still photography. I hate having the screen on the r3 awkwardly sticking out to the side. The canon engineers also completely missed the fact that you can’t shoot tethered with a usb cable plugged in AND use the tilt screen at the same time…
Thanks. That’s also my opinion with tilt screens. I also find the solution of the Nikon z8 and z9 the very best solution for photographers. Videographers is a totally different story. I find it very surprising how Sam’s opinion, just as a photographer, was more towards the Canon R3.
yup, i hated it at first back when i switched to the canon r, but after i got used to it im convinced it’s much more comfortable and discreet to use canons tilt approach! all down to personal preference of course
The rear screen on the Sony A7RV has to be the best as it keeps everyone happy. I HATE the flip out style screen, shooting from the waist and having to look to the side of the camera is not for me. I know on my Sony A7iv and canon cameras when the screen is out to the side it's not square with the camera making getting your lines straight that little bit harder. I now have the Z8 and love the rear screen, if I move to Nikon from Sony I will most likely get twoZ and a Z6III once out
Agreed! I actually didn’t buy an R5 because the screen. Was switching from an XT5 and landed on the Nikon Z8. I had a Z7ii and couldn’t do it because I needed that 3 way tilt. SO much better for photography for me. Flip out screen is for bloggers and really extreme angles we shoot in like 0.1% of our photos
Great images!!
Many thanks!
Nikon fanboys be like "👎"
Nikon realists be like "🙏"
You can customize the shutter sound with the Z8 or turn it off.
still not as good as the zf mechanical shutter sound and feel
Is the dynamic range better on the Nikon Zf compared to the Z8? Are you concerned that the shutter life of the Zf is only about 200k clicks? I have no idea how much it costs to replace it or how long it takes to Nikon support fix it.
My cameras have more than 300k and going strong and my Z9 doesn't have this issues as it doesn't have a mechanical shutter.
Great video as always!
the dynamic range is better on the Zf vs the Z8. not too concerned about the shutter life - it's typically a $300-$400 repair if it's necessary
Electronic shutters also fail.
@@kevinprideaux6653 - your point? Anything electronic can fail but the shutter doesn't have mechanical parts to break or wear.
I find that the dynamic range is a bit lacking on the z8 as well ☹️
yup, surprising!
Non mechanical shutter = poor dynamic range.
the z8 and the z9 are the same sensor...
there is nothing that would support that theory@@lewcehjitl3282
@@JeffDietzphoto something is going on where it's not just the sensor. I still love mine but there's less dynamic range and introduces noise faster when bumping up the shadows
Not including the Z8 / Z9 .. What is Nikon’s best camera currently?
by far the Zf, IMO. I own 2!
Great video, I shoot with D850's , I don't think I could tolerate that what appears to be lacking headroom.
I loved your review and your photos! Try firmware 2.0. Nikon added all new shutter sounds.
Interesting review and appreciate the time you took. Regarding the dynamic range, I’m surprised with those results given specs (as you were). I’m curious if you tried pushing the files with the exposure slider before applying presets and edits (I saw that you had already adjusted highlight and shadows when demonstrating). It’s possible the Z8 files respond differently to the presets. Might be good to explore again with only the exposure slider.
good question! I always use the same preset across every camera so, in relative terms I can tell that the banding is more prominent than other sensors. the zf files (also the Sony a7r4, and a9ii) do not respond this way with the same preset. just took a look and with *no* preset apply the banding is less severe (my preset pushes and pulls images a lot), but it's still there.
Nice, thanks for checking it out. Yeah, I guess we don’t get a free lunch. We can either take the noise and get the resolution/stacked sensor, or go smaller res and less noise. Thanks for the examples and thoughtful review.
@@iamsamhurdphotography glad I keyword searched and found this question because I had the same one after watching your video today. You also mentioned that lightroom seems to have messed up the color profile rendering. Assuming that color profile has been updated since, are you still of the opinion that there is a sensor issue - or objectively can you say that your editing method (significantly punched up shadows and highlights) compounds the issue when then pushing exposure?
@@kurtstephan3281 I can take a look at the same files with any recent updates adobe has pushed and report back if there's any significant change. I can absolutely say my post processing does objectively compound the issue of exposing poor dynamic range/noisy shadows, but it doesn't change my assessment because I use my same starting editing preset on pretty much every camera I shoot with, and I've used the same edits in the basics panel (highlights, shadows, whites, blacks) for about a decade now. a good example is that Zf sensor as this is not nearly as big an issue
Switch light room setting to camera settings. Fixed the banding issue for me.
if you’re talking about using a different camera profile like camera standard, then I already do that
My question is how would you compare the images with the d850, I have noticed the z8 is colder. I know easily remedied. Just curious. I appreciate your honesty . Thanks great video.
I did shoot for years with the D850 and consider it the pinnacle of DSLR‘s, but sadly don’t have one to do a direct comparison, and I can’t exactly remember how the files handle enough to voice an opinion. it seems like Adobe has created a bad camera calibration profile. They’ve actually done that before w/ another camera I owned the eos r.
@@iamsamhurdphotography According to "Photons to Photos", your "pinnacle of DSLRs" has ever so slightly more DR (about 1/3 stop) than the Z8 under ISO 400, and 1:1 the same above. 🤭
you're clearly a whitesheet/stats person... I am a practical use person. as I've used both cameras extensively, all I can say is the z8 files crumble easily in lightroom, far more than d850 - simple as that. feel free to make your own video and send me the link if you want to, but I think we both know you won't @@cy9nvs
@@iamsamhurdphotography So practical, that you can't even be bothered to back that wrong claim up with actual evidence. A TH-camr of your size should be able to do that, but hey, I guess having "I sent it back" in the thumbnail and bashing a product that is so widely praised has its financial perks regardless, so... 🤷🏼♂️
@@iamsamhurdphotography Also, DPReview has a tool where you can compare test shots which were under exposed by 3 stops and brought back. The z8 is perfectly in line with the competition and ever so slightly behind the d750, which is mainly because it's image in general is a lot softer, due to the lower resolution.
the 10.000 shots threshold is interesting :) it's the amount I take from the helicopter in a normal desert rally day
I purchased a Z8 and I am not the hugest fan of the 100% electronic shutter either. The other thing is the lack detailed textures vs noise even at Lower iso. It’s not only a noise problem but I think it’s related to the sensor combined with the electronic rolling shutter : it’s not able to align pixels to represent details perfectly when pixel peeping. When I zoom on textiles and face detail, the pixels are a mix between color artifacts and are not forming an even texture. It’s weird never had that with any other Nikon camera or sigma Quattro H.
i’m really starting to believe it’s something adobe has done when creating their calibration profiles. are you using lightroom?
@@iamsamhurdphotography no I am actually using latest Nikon NX studio for all the raw/nef adjustments, then I finish the 16bit Tiff work on photoshop (if needed) or just batch process to jpeg for events. I strongly believe that this is linked to the cmos sensor / fully electronic rolling shutter. I experienced similar lack of texture & false color artefacts issues with the GX9 when using the electronic shutter only. (Not even speaking of the usual banding and deformed moving objects which is always 100%related to rolling shutter / electronic shutter issues)
Tilt screens FTW. I just got a Zfc that has the flippy screen and it's so much more annoying to use vs. my Z6 where I can just tlit it out real quick. Tilt screen you have to flip it out and rotate it, then it's over to the left...it's just annoying and too much effort.
having used both for years i just find it much better to have the flip out
There must be a billion to one ratio of images coming out today compared to 40 years ago, why is there not an appreciable improvement in top images with all of the tech?
you raise a good point, but what you're not seeing is the mental load and time improvements in the process of making images now vs 40 years ago. it's 1000% more efficient and less stressful to make the same "top images" now.
@@iamsamhurdphotography correct I didn’t take that point into account, especially with the work flow your occupation demands. I’m thinking of art in general, music movies and photography, compared to 30 years ago sometimes it’s feeling a bit soulless. Your photography videos are very well done and appreciated, I’d love to hear you talk about some of the most personal meaningful images and why sometime, that would be awesome from someone like you
Excellent review of this computer with a lens. Able to produce very sharp pictures ....... This is more a computer than a camera. Your comment about the colours is certainly valid. Does any lady above 35 wants her picture taken with the z8 and a 50 mm 1.2 S or with the Nikon em and the 1.8 ais? @@iamsamhurdphotography
@@bleubaker I believe the late Mark Fisher had a lot of sensible things to say about the issue of art production. His take is that nothing substantially new has happened in the arts since about the late 80ies. One reason is that the means of art production are ever more lopsidedly distributed. His prime example is punk music, which could only happen because back in the 1970s there was a huge squatter scene in London, where young and poor artists could meet, exchange their ideas and work together. Compare that with today, where an average camera costs 2.000 bucks which excludes most of humanity. Same in art schools, which have been degraded into basically a hobby horse for rich children.
Capture One for Nikon files, so much better than Lightroom
this is the case for a lot of camera files no just nikon. unfortunately capture one has a terrible user interface
@@iamsamhurdphotography strange you should say that as I did think that originally coming from lightroom, but quickly found it much faster to work with. I originally bought it for a project that needed a lot of teatherd shooting and not for the processing, but then started to like the results better.
i too would miss the shutter vibrations which potentially soften an image 😂
maybe for astro work but… very rare
I believe the issue with Z8 files lies in how Adobe (LR/CR) is handling them. I observed that the color temperature and tint do not match the camera settings, and that this is not a problem with Z9 files. Depending on the camera profile used, the shadow areas can break apart (noise, banding) sooner than using camera matching profiles, as they are less prone to issues. For instance, your BitDepthCS profile has roughly a one-stop exposure disadvantage compared to Camera Standard when using identical develop settings. As mentioned below, using Nikon's NX Studio, the same file can be pushed up to five stops with less noise and without banding. Unfortunately, Studio NX is far from an ideal Pro workflow "buddy". Exporting to .TIFF, then importing to Lightroom/CR, is the quickest workaround, but it sacrifices time, storage, and, most importantly, a non-destructive workflow.
i appreciate you looking into this too! sounds like it’s an adobe issue, which like you said, is a shame because NX workflow is miserable
@@iamsamhurdphotography Most Welcome. It appears that Capture One offers a more accurate interpretation of Z8 files, closely mirroring the results obtained in NX. Utilising comparable development settings (your GainStagePro base w/ BithDepth CS profile) in the C1 trial version yielded no banding and significantly reduced noise compared to Lightroom when pushing exposure to four stops and further increasing the Brightness value.
So for those with the Z8 and considering either LR or Capture One, I would recommend conducting thorough testing to determine which software best suits their needs. ( my embedded Adobe workflow makes a switch impractical at this time..)
I don’t know if I would ever edit the way you are. In my experience it’s best to shoot a touch over exposed or a touch under exposed, not full stops. I haven’t had any of these issues with the Z8.
I've been editing this way for 8+ years. I'm extremely familiar with the limits of allllll kinds of sensors - and with many it's not this noticeable an issue. I used to be able to push Nikon d850 files 4 stops at base iso. it's mostly just a consequence of the huge resolution in the z8.
@@iamsamhurdphotography same resolution D850 and Z8
Shutter sound, OMG, this is the stupidest reason to don’t like a camera.
it's really not
Well...
All by all, the z8 is not a great camera.
I own a z8 and had 810, 850.
I agree the dinamic range is lesser. But.
Both mirror cameras, and i owned two bodies of each, had what i believe a chronic mirror house issues that went out of calibration ater like 12.000 shots or so. No other nikon body, apart the z9, had the focus and video ability the z8 had and went close to them in resolution, that i need shooting wildlife.
Yet, its focus is not that great for fast moving object, and in a bit darker conditions- bad. I feel The mirror system had been more accurate in the dark.
The click sound is an issue, as well as the crippled ability compere to z9 that i believe is artificial. But the z9 is way too heavy and bulky for me.
agreed
TL;DW: He got the Zf because he preferred the shutter sound and a flippy screen.
There, I saved you 16 minutes! 😅😅
Quote from the end: "I'm very impressed; very happy with it [Z8]"
But he preferred the aesthetics of the Zf - this is totally fair, but the video thumbnail was misleading clickbait tbh as it sounds like OP actually liked the features that most people are watching reviews to learn about.
uh, yeah… and you prefer using a camera that sounds awful and you can’t bother to make a video about?
@@iamsamhurdphotography awww, Sam got triggered.
@@Daniel_Ilyich I really just enjoy trolling TH-cam comments. unless someone takes the time to make their own rebuttal video - I literally don't care what someone says here
@@iamsamhurdphotography aren’t you a busy man? If you really didn’t care, you wouldn’t give him the time of day. The whole purpose of his comment was to get your attention.
@@Daniel_Ilyich i really don't work that much
I too hate the shutter sound. Also I think the z8 finally outgrows the en el15 form factor. Just not enough juice for all that tech.
glad I'm not alone
So, your biggest frustration is it isn't loud enough? lol
hmmm maybe you should rewatch the video
...shutter sound an issue? try Leica M if you want to fall in love with shutter sound ;-)
oh, i own some leica bodies!
I didn't care for this review when you mentioned shutter sound, then you had me at pinky finger.🙄 Sorry, but I want function over form. I do however like the autofocus info and info on noise in the portrait photos.
Just turn your Sound down to 1 thats what I did >> Thank goodness for NO Mechanical Shutter >> No more Shutter Count Stress
It's never failed... I've taken 500,000 for 1DX
No mechanical shutter = poor dynamic range. Doofus.
hmmm don’t think that has anything to do with it
have you had many shutters fail on you?
even when you expose correctly that bending appears?
the banding usually occurs at high iso, or when you need to push and pull the files in post. I wouldn't under expose like that if it wasn't such a contrasty/high dynamic range kind of photo with the sun in the background and dark shadows in the foreground. in short, I underexposed for a reason - to retain as many highlights as possible, but the tradeoff is banding when you recover the shadows. many camera sensors are much better about this than the z8 sensor as I can usually recover 4+ stops with no banding. worth noting the z8 has a huge sensor size and you can downsize a lot to minimize the banding, but I hate having to take that extra step.
Have you tried/reviewed any Sony gear? It seems to me that you should at least give it your 10K test.
absolutely I have! I've shot nearly every Sony body since their first mirrorless a7. most of them are short articles not videos, but I don't have any ultra long reviews, because I don't like reviewing things I don't end up keeping. I made the exception for the z8 because it ties into the zf, which I did keep. here's a Sony review from long ago www.samhurdphotography.com/reviews/sony-a7s-review-sony-a7s-vs-a7r/
like the dynamic range from the D850 is insanly good! surprised the Z8 isnt on that level... the Z7 is same as the D850...
I wouldnt say that. Lab tests say at peak all 3 cameras have about the same dr. Theres maybe a 2 percent difference between the D850, Z7ii and Z8.
at last i understand that you probably a canon shooter thats how you compare with z8, seems like cancon fan review
i shoot all systems, but my current workhorse is the r3. just this year i’ve used a few sony bodies, fuji, hasselblad, etc.
the model in this, Zoe? were have I seen her before?
cloe, and yes i’ve worked with her many times!
move the Texture Slider to neutral position (11:50) and use sharpening only together with masking slider - this will not remove the problem with reduced DR but I guess the noise will be less apparent. Its usually good to start with neutral settings on the LR slider side. Adobe profiles also can make a difference when you import RAW files. This might have been fixed in the mean time. D850 was the DR king on low Iso - the Z8 is nearly 2 ev behind as far as DxO rankings show.
uh, no.
Dear Sam, I think you should start getting used to an electronic sound from your camera. In a very few years all the top cameras from all the brands will be shutterless…
i agree, but if there is no negative tradeoff using a body that has a mechanical shutter then i’ll always opt for that. no real reason to get the z8 with the zf out haha
You are walking on thin ice bud, Nikon fanbase is very hostile. I’d change your title they will hunt you down.
haha, i’m fine but thanks for the concern
fab camera but for me the screen should be like d5600. why a beginners is more pro than pro camera.
The sound (or not) of a click is enough to send it back. I have a Z7ll and have it set to 'Silent Shutter', took no getting used to. Maybe you're just a little too 'picky', to return a camera because of a sound is ludicrous, there are so many more features that may or may not be valid reasons to keep or return a body. I see you have more than 17,000 subscribers but with level of small-mindedness I won't be signing up. I'm not being nasty or trolling, your reasons, IMHO, don't make sense, sorry.
you're definitely right... I am picky, and it's because i have to deal with making 250,000+ frames per year. if I don't absolutely love the experience... it's going back. the sound effect is just not for me... simple as that. it seems like that would be an obvious thing to understand, but maybe I just shoot too much!
Why coffee in btw laptop and camera?
You were aware of the fact you can change shutter sound?
I also found that adobe software doesn’t edit the raw files that nice, lots of noise and artefacts. Via nx studio things are so much better. The sensor is more than capable, test show.
yes, aware I can change the sounds
Not Iso 100 the Z8 has an ISO of 64
for sure - the example photos i used were actually iso 200 so what’s your point? it wasn’t a scientific test, but it still should have performed much better than it did even at iso 200
@@iamsamhurdphotography compared with what?
many cameras - the nikon zf has much cleaner iso and overall dynamic range than the z8 at any iso
I personally think the z8 eats batteries -- and I don't use video.
interesting! I didn't really find battery life to be an issue
Battery life is god a handful of batteries 3-4??? How many images do you typically shoot at a wedding? Thats not what I call excellent battery life!
i shoot 6-8k images at weddings. battery life is good.
@@iamsamhurdphotography wow and how many do
You deliver. I think the industry average is 2-4K
i deliver 750 or so. have never been very concerned with industry averages haha i do what feels right
You are very defensive in your comments. You don’t have to be. You have nothing to justify. You and your opinions are you. Just keep on walking along and singing your song, I love my white shoes, I love my white shoes.
i simply can’t understand how the sound of a shutter isn’t a big deal 😂
I miss the sound of my mech shutter, but it’s not a deal breaker to me. The Nikon FEELS great to hold and to photograph for me. I’m coming from a XT5, GFX and a R5 and the XT5 had the most satisfying shutter of all time. And yet when I’m out in the field with the Nikon, I just FEEL good. It feels good to compose, to frame, to set the EVF brightness to max and see such a clear image. But that’s just me. I will always miss my shutter on the XT5 but it never made me feel this good.
On a side note if you read this. I’m CONFUSED.
You’re talking about dynamic range pushing your exposure slider, but your shadows are already boosted? Doesn’t boosting the shadows already start to step into noise so your doing both on top? I haven’t had a noise issue with the Z8, but I am coming from a crop sensor. But comparing it to the GfX I had used I’m not feeling a big difference either.
yeah if the z8 feels good to you then that’s definitely all that matters.
as far as dynamic range - the shadows slider vs highlights etc is all about creating an overall look that i like. all the settings you see (other than exposure) are almost always locked in place for any image i edit, whether it needs a lot of dynamic range or not. this enables a lot of consistency in editing, but yes - it will expose sensor noise more quickly. it’s usually not a problem (i’ve used the general same editing preset i made since like 2013), which is why the z8 files surprised me so much
So one comment you made in the video seemed oddly deceiving, or maybe over our heads lol
At one point your showing a face and your saying look I can still see the face but when I push the exposure slider look at all the noise. But the shadows were already boosted. It seems like unfair comparison. With the shadows being boosted, it was probably almost black. The boosted shadows barely revealed the face, and then of course using the exposure slider is going to generate a ton of noise because it was SO under exposed. If the photo was like that without the shadows being boosted to the max, it would be more understandable. It just either seemed like a habitual oversight or unfair statement on noise.
i’m not entirely sure which moments you’re referring to, but it shouldn’t be deceiving when i always use the same position for the shadow slider on all sensors that i compare. this isn’t a scientific experiment - im just making observations based on how i always edit, which is the same across all camera bodies. there have been numerous other comments stating that adobe botched the camera profile so maybe the sensor doesn’t perform as poorly as it appeared - i don’t really know at this point. all i can share is what i experienced at the place and time
You can send a camera back after using it for 10,000 shots? Fk!
nikon loaned it to me to test
@@iamsamhurdphotography Sam I saw your videos. And you make me think… when I first shot with the Z9, I was blown away exactly for the colours… but I waited for the Z8 expecting the same. I am seeing the noise. Is it possible for you to use the bodies side by side and see the difference just to be sure… I think everyone of your audience is in 2 minds now
Dude, why don't you build your own camera😂😂😂😂😂
Don’t take skrillex seriously lol
If you told a photographer a couple of years back that you're going to ditch a great camera because of the sound, he would call you a moron
yeah, i don’t think that’s true… at all. maybe if you’re just randomly shooting, but if you take tens of thousands of photos per month it’s little things like that that add up to huge annoyances. reaction time is also better when you can feel it.
Perhaps a little harsh but I agree that rejecting a camera you otherwise like because you can't get used to the sound is curious, especially since Nikon could easily add other sounds via firmware subject to demand. I honestly don't even know what other sounds my Z9 can make. I'm more surprised that anyone would want their camera to vibrate. I wonder what engineers who have toiled for decades to suppress vibration would make of that. No doubt future generations of mirrorless and mechanical shutter-less camera will incorporate some kind of simulated haptic feedback, which will be fine by me as long as there's an off switch! I guess you can't please everyone.
all down to personal preference, but it comes down to feel. I don't literally want the camera to entirely vibrate, but can you *not* imagine why i want a tactile experience? it generates a deeper experience that I can feel and react too more quickly. the sounds are one thing, but the articulating screen is the main reason I bailed on it. it's not directional enough, and very limiting compared to alternatives. again, personal preference, but 100% true for my style, which works.@@way2deep100
@@iamsamhurdphotography I actually do understand about style dictating decision-making. I’m simply saying there is wisdom in adapting to incremental change as it happens, especially as a young person, rather than relying on an ability to adapt to significant enforced change down the line. My car, for example, has lots of buttons and traditional potentiometer-style controls. My son, on the other hand, waves, prods at a screen and has conversations with his car. He tells me he will soon be able to choose to make it drive itself and I suspect he will live long enough for this to no longer be his choice. I have driven cars for almost 50 years but would resemble a new-born baby faced with the prospect of operating my son’s contraption because I’ve based my vehicle purchasing decisions on my desire to resist rather than embrace change. It’s not difficult to imagine that the need to cut component and assembly costs will eventually extend to cameras. By the middle of the century, photographers may have no choice but to wave, prod and talk to their new cameras; cameras which will have been silent for years due to noise abatement regulations. I’m not even sure I’m joking!
I also understand why a fully articulating screen would be useful in some situations. Less than a month after I got my Z9, I set it down on my backpack with the screen extended. It subsequently fell off and rolled once or twice. It didn’t fall far - perhaps 12 to 14 inches - and it was more of a tumble onto a grass slope than a crash to the ground. I’m nevertheless convinced that most fully articulating screen-equipped cameras would have sustained at least some damage in similar circumstances while the Z9’s screen shrugged it off and may even have helped halt the tumble. Fully articulating screens aren’t a mystery to Nikon, who made a conscious decision to construct their ‘pro’ mirrorless cameras to withstand abuse typical of professional environments. The salesperson who sold me my Z9 demonstrated this by picking his demo model up by its screen. Not recommended but my wallet felt inspired to come out.
Don’t get me wrong, if a front-facing screen was something I thought I’d ever need, I would have rejected the Z9 just as you rejected the Z8. But I’m old school and shot film exclusively until 20 years ago. The Z9’s albeit limited articulation is a useful luxury because my body resists getting into certain positions these days. In five or ten years’ time my body won’t articulate quite as well as it does today, which is why a screen that almost certainly will happens to suit me.
Those edits are terrible...
uh yeah… the files edit terribly. that’s the point.
The dynamic range of this camera is shocking to me. I expect more from a camera at this level. I have been waiting for the Z6 III and I expect more from it as well.
LOL Shocking 🤦♂️
10 k cljcks on a test unit
yup. why not?
Sold mine, what a pile of junk.
Nikon listens to none of their customers hence why they are so far behind yet again....
nikon is definitely not behind since the release of the z9
Behind? You know the Z glass covers a medium format sensor? They’re already thinking 10-20 years down the road. 😂
even some f mount glass covered medium format sensors@@dennist132