Why Brute Bonnet is WORSE than Amoonguss in Gen 9 Competitive Pokemon.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2022
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Pawmot can resurrect it's allies. That's awesome.
I play SV OU and I play it well. I click buttons like nobody else, on the Scarlet & Violet Overused ladder., in competitive Gen 9 Pokemon Showdown.
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Scream Tail is the Jigglypuff of our wildest dreams. It has been buffed with some higher statistics and the incredible ability, Protosynthesis. Gen 9 Competitive Pokemon wouldn't be the same without this powerful pink blob. He kinda looks like someone I met in one of my game design and development courses.
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Gholdengo is a Pokemon made of pure gold. He must have done some online business management courses to accumulate all that wealth. Or perhaps he might want to learn how to make money playing video games on TH-cam. In any case, he's a powerful metagame force, with absolutely no interest in online game development schools.
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Additionally, its name got a huge nerf as it no longer sounds like among us
It's no longer suspecious
the most overlooked nerf
That's why I nicknamed mine Buga Sus
What do you mean? You just didn't say it right:
"Brutus bonngus"
(I don't think I did a good job combining names)
@@jossuecabrera8611 Not so sussy as name. That's why I nicknamed mine Buga Sus, since it comes from the past.
I think BB is underrated. People who experiment with him in doubles will be pleasantly surprised. Comparing it to iron thorns is a little unfair imo
Not sure about Doubles, I'm talking just about Singles here. I could see it being better in Doubles
It’s definitely better in doubles
It's not really a comparison with Iron thorns. It's being used as an example for why giving bad defensive typing to bulky attackers who rely on taking hits is bad.
In doubles the dynamic is much different since weather is much more impactful. You don't have to switch out torkoal to get brute in since you have 2 Pokémon to lead with (key point since brute struggles very much with switching in) you can cover it's bad matchups with your partner, for example the fire types used with sun will threaten the bug types its helpless against and brute threatens the water and ground types that threaten the fire types.
This is much harder to do in singles since you need to switch between them instead of being able to have them on the field at the same time. Brute bonnet does not deal well with OU's biggest threats such as Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu, doesn't have the unique threats that meowscarada has in flower trick and protean, and in the role of protecting your team from water and ground types, amoongus does a better job at since it has regenerator and much greater walling ability with its typing.
@@falcon9213 It has the same issue as Vespequin
@@dayandere2669 yeah, but vespiquen also has a million other flaws unfortunately xd
I figure it doesn’t take much to see the difference.
Amoongus has such a fantastic typing for a defensive Pokemon: Grass/Poison, while Brute Bonnette has that defensively disastrous Grass/Dark typing.
On top of that, the loss of Regenerator is way too big.
gen 9 was fairly obsessed with dark types
@@Pao-vo8mf the lack of actual evil characters made them tap into the evil type
Amongus
Amogus is Hella balanced in singles, but in Doubles it's super op. With access to Rage Powder, Spore without a Sleep Clause, Pollen Puff for teammates, and just the fact that HP is better defensively in VGC than having high defense or spdef stats, and you got yourself one sassy shroom.
Why is hp better than def or sp.def
@@morrasod1858 It has to do with how stats are calculated at lower levels. When you're at level 100 it's pretty even on if you want HP or Defensive stats, but since you gain a lot more HP at early levels than at late levels, it makes a lot more of a difference in VGC, where you're level 50.
Think of it as a less extreme version of Little Cup, where the moves are all endgame level but the stats aren't, so offense is much more overwhelming. You can't negate a lot of damage, but if you're beefy enough you can out-number the non negated damage
Don’t forget that max speed brute bonnet Is 1 point lower than min attack so protosynthesis can’t boost speed and get fast spores
That's f'd up
They did that on purpose 🤣🤣
On God I hate that so much such a garbage moment.
Also the pokémon that gets spore and has 100 speed has an ability that makes spore negative priority
@@Edujs23but the trade off is that it cannot be stopped by any means
Ideally you would have actually wanted BB to keep its poison type rather than grass. Grass is a type that only works well defensively in very few combinations while poison is actually a super solid defensive typing. If this was poison/dark rather than grass/dark it would have probably been pretty legit.
Honestly yeah
Grass/Rock?
@@EnriqueLaberintico super underrated type, they cancel eachothers weaknesses super well
@@EnriqueLaberintico That would have been amazing
That would make sense since mushrooms aren't actually plants (they're their own thing). Which is what basically defines grass types.
Bonnet seems made to be an attacker who can Spore what tries to switch into it. Probably works better in VGC with Trick Room.
Now personaly I love brute bonnets idea. His design is cool. I think instead of dark, dragon coulda been a much better substitute seeing its a more feral looking version of the paradox pokemon, if we exclude great tusk that is. Also I do think instead of increasing its attack stat we should have invested more into Sp. Def and Physical Def, y'know? Giving his a slight edge to run a defensive play to be offensive. That way it would keep its namesake and be viable. Also towards Iron thorns I have no idea why it kept the rock typing, that mon shoulda been a steel type for real.
Idk if you missed it, but all Paradox pokemon keep the one type from their original counterpart. So Brute Bonnet could only ever be Grass/Secondary or Poison/Secondary.
@@loudwhispre9406 Well ye I was aware. Thats why I made the idea of its typing be reworked into Grass Dragon. Since in the end it could be botg defensive and offensive that way
hi :)
With the fact that they made sure you cannot ever get Protosynthesis to buff this pokemons speed because attack is 1 point to high with timid nature and 0 attack ivs they set it up to fail
It's crazy how things differ from Smogon singles to VGC doubles. Because the statements about Toxapex and Amoonguss literally get swapped.
The defining factor is rage powder and spore. In doubles, the opponent can ignore Toxapex. They cannot ignore Amoongus because
A. It forces them to attack it.
B. Spore gives it a threatening presence.
Not really, toxapex is simply garbage in doubles and the main factors that make amoongus better in doubles is the lack of sleep clause as well as rage powder being useful now but mainly sleep clause as you can simply suffocate opponents out of the game with tempo advantage from spore if amoongus stays around for even as little as two turns.
Don't get me wrong rage powder is good for being able to insure the teammate doesn't get ko'd during the turn but spore quite often forces the opposing pokémon to target amoongus anyway, gets even more oppressive under trick room as it gets to outspeed while doing it.
The biggest problem with BB is the fact amoonguss has a different role that it. Defense pivot and duos support vs another physical sweeper. There aren't enough support mons so amoonguss fills a niche while BB has to much competition so you can be more critical of its faults.
I think the final nail in the coffin was two other grass dark types being introduced this gen, one better offensively and one better defensively. Really destroys any niche it could’ve had
wo-chien is not better defensively, it doesnt have spore and only gets to knock off once then die
@@ethanvon222 there are 3 better spore users one of which is regular amogus
the paradox pokemon really need abilities other than what they have now. protosynthesis and quark drive are great, but so many of them need something else.
I use a Brute Bonnet in Showdown VGC as a support. Polen Puff, Spore, Rage Powder and Sucker Punch along with Max HP and investiments in defenses give my good survival on it
I actually wish the paradox pokemon had hidden abilities too, so they each would feel more unique
I think that it works since species do change over time... it's quite possible that some families of pokemon hit their prime during different eras.... Tyranitar for example is in it's prime now, but declined later into Iron Thorns, Slither wing progressively improved over time into Volcarona and then Iron Moth
Modern Amoongus may be "weaker" than Brute Bonnet but it evolved to be better as a more passive pokemon since it's ancient form didn't quite cut it as an attacker
Grass/Dark Is a terrible typing.
I think Poison/Dark would have been better In multiple ways. Great coverage of both offence and defense. Also would've made better sense, as mushrooms like the dark, and are often poisonous.
I don’t think Brute Bonnet will be an OU Pokemon-especially as long as stronger offensive dark types like Chien-Pao and Kingambit exist in the meta. It has a nice niche as a Sucker Punch cleaner, especially if you can get the sun up. The problem is that the only sun setter right now is Torkoal, and he won’t drop out of OU any time soon. As it stands, you have to take Brute Bonnet as is, which is like a budget dark-type Breloom. I’d say it’s still good enough to stay UU-or at least get banned from RU.
I feel the same way. But honestly it’s fun clean house with those super punches on unsuspecting Ubers players!
That niche as Sucker Punch Cleaner is better used for Lokix, though. Tinted Lens be crazy
@@outtaideas849 or eviolite bisharp
There is one benefit that Dark type provides: immune to Prankster status moves, such as Taunt that would disable its ability to use Spore, Leech Seed, etc.
That said, Dark/Poison would have been a vastly better typing overall (Dark and Poison dont have any monotype resists shared between them I think, and defensively it has only one weakness, an immunity to Psychic damage and Poisoned/Toxic Status), and Protosynthesis with its stats would not help it bolster its speed or its bulk (or so I believe; I dont know off the top of my head if a -Atk +Def/SpDef nature would be enough to redirect the buff from attack to defense)
Amoonguss remains on top and I’m here for it
Dude I love this style of content it's so compelling
Yup subscribed. Love these little explanation / analysis videos
How I’d improve Brute Bonnet:
Make it Poison Dark instead
Swap it’s attack stats(Like it doesn’t really make sense for this thing to be a physical attacker, it doesn’t even have hands)
That also means give it more special moves
Lower that attack even more down to 69 and out those 10 points into HP
I have no idea whats going on with the outro song but it's been stuck in my head all day
Hi i wanted to ask a question and I liked your style of playing so I'm asking xD do you think it's doable to use a snow team in singles ( on VGC) if yes can you give me pointers please ? Thx you.
I like Bonnet. Sucker Punch, Spore, Clear Smog, and Seed Bomb is awesome coverage especially if your attack is boosted.
I was also found it to be a great answer to Dondozo.
I think they will have more usage if the paradox actually given a HA. Maybe BB can be given "Regenerator" or IT can be given "Elecetric Surge".
In this day and age, being UU is still pretty good.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Ita honestly been doing me good in the pits of UU, i'm not that good but it shuts down stored power sweepers hard amd has enough bulk to live hits and spore any switches
If brunne bonnet didn’t have dark as second type would,be good but as another role
If only there was a way to change the type of a Pokémon
Brute Bonnet is a very well-designed Pokemon IMO but with VGC in mind. Amoongus is the Toxapex of 4v4 doubles and introducing a better version of it would be bad if not handled carefully. It has such a high attack because it's impossible for it to get a speed boost from its ability. Toedscruel having a speed gimping ability shows they are afraid to introduce a fast spore user. If they gave the same stat to one of its defenses, it would be a massive upgrade from that defensive side. We also can see from the moths, mainly iron moth that they don't want the paradox mons to be objective upgrades without a reason to use the originals. Iron Moth is the only moth not to get quiver dance likely because it acts as a reason to use Volcarona. The worse defensive typing makes Amoongus better defensively but tera lets Brute Bonnet fix its worst typing while acting as an alternative that does good damage. Lastly, Trick Room is a viable strategy in VGC making its terrible speed while still an issue, also an asset on the right team. It's a bruiser that loses its better tanking type in exchange for good damage and an immunity to prankster Pokemon
if it kept its grass poison typing it would be op asf
Amoongus be like: I’m kinda sus
brute bonnet = grass/rock
iron thorns = electric/dark
i think this is the solution, they need to interchange her types.
There is no pokemon with Grass/rock typing except for cradily, same for tyranitar with only morpeko as a electric/dark pokemon
I thought the same. Grass/dark with no speed needs trick room to survive
Your videos are really informative and your voice is really soft!
This make me curious, how good is Iron Jugulis compared to Hydreigon? I have been wondering that seeing Iron Jugulis is a little less weak to Fairy then Hydreigon, if that helps anything.
I think most people prefer Hydreigon for the Dragon typing which has a lot of great resistances. I've seen people use Iron Jugulis on Rain teams though cause of STAB Hurricane, that's something
@@jimothycool Works for me.
Brute Bonnet isn't comparable to Amoonguss, it's more like better Cacturne but still slow
When I read the name brute I kinda assumed it'd get fighting type. I feel like it might've gotten more traction that way
And from a gameplay perspective, there are just too many grass/dark types, brute bonnet, meowscarada, and one of the ruin legendaries, I forget it’s name, is also grass/dark…
Tried using bad natures and lowering Evs to make its photosynthesis affect speed for a fast spore but it was a few points off sadly
I disagree about BB not having much thought put behind it, I think they gave it a lot of thought in designing it for *doubles*: with trick room being a much more prevalent speed control option, it can turn its poor speed into a strength to threaten a lot of damage; not only that, it actually still can redirect attacks with rage powder to assist in setting up said trick room and threaten spore to support the team. Furthermore, thanks to its ability it benefit from the protosynthesis boost without sacrificing an item, and the main non-uber sun setter just happens to be torkoal, which greatly benefits from being under trick room, as well, and together they have scary coverage. It's not nearly as good as Amoonguss at supporting the team but it can still do that while not having its weaknesses of being too passive and getting shut down by goggles/taunt so it fulfills a completely different niche
It terms of actual design its pretty sick looking....i know the point is to look at it competitively but for me its certainly a cool add to an in game team
Wait are you the guy who made the viper remix?
I am.
Poison Dark would be a beatiful fix
It's not a good idea to compare it to Amoonguss but I think looking at another dark/grass would help us to understand what it's wrong with Brute Bonnet. Meowscarada is a good example of minimax being very fast and incredibly frail with bad defensive typing, with incredibly powerful STABs and barely good enough movepool. It's not a good wallbreaker but definitely a solid sweeper and should be able to stay relevant in OU.
Brute Bonnet on the other hand is not a very well thought Mon. It's clear they were trying to get an offensive support with spore, and while this should work on doubles, in singles it has the massive issue of being slow, lacking powerful STABs to undermine that good attack and having a terrible defensive typing to undermine that good bulk; in doubles at least it has Torkoal and trick room to naturally boost its attack and fix its speed so it's actually a threatening support, but those are not reliable strats in singles, and even then Amoonguss is a top tier Mon in doubles.
I haven't played either format, but I guess this thing would work better on VGC under Trick Room and with sun support, as well as thr faster pace that takes value off of Regenerator. GF pretty much only cares about balancing doubles anyway.
Something interesting to consider is the role that traiditional evolution (not pokemon evolution) would play in brute bonnet becoming Amoongus. In evolution, less desirable qualities are phased out for those that are more desirable. Since brute bonnet failed at being an offensive attacker and could have seen more success investing in bulk and defensive capabilities, it coudl have become the defensive amoongus that we know today, by way of generations of evolution.
Which Grass/Dark type will end up superior in UU, I wonder? Brute Bonnet, or Wo-Chien?
None but Wo-Chien better
Now, brute bonnet is extremely underrated. with tera fire on a SUN team it can go to town in a tier like UU
What do you think if Brute Bonnet is put in a trick room team?
Imo there seems to have been a huge design hurry with all paradox forms, they gave the same ability to all of them rather than creating one for each specific pokemon, this makes some of them unbalanced whereas others are heavily in need of a different ability to be successful (tyranitar, amoongus and hariyama)
Lore wise this decision does not make sense either. For, in theory paradox forms are the past and the future of already existing pokemons so it would make more sense if they had similar abilities.
Well to me it seems like a great trick room sweeper, the only problem is that it lacks more offensive movepool aside from seed bomb, crunch and sucker punch. If anything would fix itd, be to change is typing to poison/dark or grass/steel to make it different from amoongus. The one advantage it has is getting boosts in sun so it may be better if it just got a better typing
How I dealt with dark grass? I threw swords dance, sucker punch, seed bomb, drain punch, and focus sash on cacturne, there's no regrets
They balance around doubles, too. Grass is immune to spore and powders and resists earthquake, dark is immune to prankster. It's not that they overlooked or neglected brute bonnet when designing it, It's just that 6v6 singles where all Pokémon are level 100 with no item clause was never their #1 priority for balance
It's got good resistances and IMMUNITIES? Bro what the
I wish they had made it grass steel as a more offensive ferro replacement.
DONT TELL THEM! I NEED TO STYLE ON THEM WITH TERA BUG KILOWATTREL FIRST
Dark/Steel seems like a worse type defensively over Grass/Dark? Specially against fighting, fire and ground?
steel has a lot more useful resists than grass, and it can sponge uturn which normally destroys grass dark
Well technically speaking, this isn't a new form of Amoongus. It's an entirely different pokémon species that has superficially resemblances Amoongus. It's like comparing Iron Valiant with Gardevoir and Gallade. Iron Valiant has excellent speed and awful special defence while also specialising in neither physical or special attack, it has traits of both, but also traits that are entirely its own. Brute Bonnet's role better suits a bulky wall-breaker, with its massive attack stat boostable by Protosynthesis and higher speed tier to outrun common walls it can shut them down with Spore and threaten massive follow-up with its own attacks.
If Brute Bonnet is a new form of anything, it's Breloom, not Amoongus. I don't think it compares well against Breloom either.
They should have made iron thorns a special attacking version of Ttar perhaps with Dark Electric typing and called it Iron Tyrant. At least it would have a different niche than Ttar and not just be a strictly inferior version.
Funny enough, it's 1 stat point away from being borderline overpowered. If it had either slightly more speed or slightly less attack, it could have had its IVs and stats manipulated so that it would receive a photosynthesis-procced speed boost that would have allowed it to be a relatively fast spore user which is pretty threatening to most team comps
Well I would hope the form it later became would be better.
Who would of though base stats aren’t everything (looking at you pseudo legendaries!)
i think brute bonnet is on equal footing with amoongus in a doubles format, and i think it is important to consider that doubles is the official format for pokemon battles. Its middle of the road role makes it a sort of pointless master of none pokemon in a singles format where snowballing and min maxing is more prominent, but the role compression is great in vgc. you get the amazing utility moveset of amoongus in clear smog, rage powder, and spore, but with a speed stat just above the biggest trick room threats and other amoongus which can turn the tide of some games. more importantly, a 127 attack stat sucker punch means brute bonnet covers up a massive weakness amoongus has in being abusably nonthreatening. Overall i think this kinda evens out with the weaknesses you mentioned in video and makes brute bonnet more of an alternative than a downgrade (at least in doubles)
i already typed too much but i should add for clarity that in doubles having protosynthesis over regenerator is nowhere near as big a deal and can in many situations even be better. Weather being easier to set + swapping being more dangerous makes it a pretty easy comparison
Also 55 spd is low but not so low that you can't outspeed a lot of stuff under tailwind. I think tailroom teams will be one of the main use cases for Brute Bonnet.
One of the main issues might be the ruleset though, rn paradox pokémon are banned, but if they limit them to 1 or 2 per team the opportunity cost of running BB over amoongus might be too much in most cases.
game freak is neglecting singles way too much, just look at tatsugiri and brambleghast
@@X-Vidar In an ideal world they just limit the few that are overwhelming since they're for the most part not as decisively better than other pokemon as legendaries
@@rajkanishu making unique doubles pokemon is not neglecting singles
Next vid idea?: Hydreigon is better than iron juglis
The question is how is it still a pokeball if its from long aho
It's definitely worse than the new ttar imo. That boy gonna come in with a free 50% higher attack, gonna terra flying and dodge your 4x ground attack and do some demon shit with good coverage.
Being weak to U-turn is worse because lots of mons have it only sometimes and without being big type and will use it everytime because it's also the correct play if you switch out and potentially a KO if you don't. U-turn quad weakness on a defensive mon bleh. At least earthquake is more obvious and you potentially have immune pokemon to help scout.
How does a prehistoric mon still look like a PokeBall?
Even as a Grass/Dark heavy hitter, Bonnet will never see OU as long as Meowscarada roams around in the tier.
Some Pokémon aren't made with competitive play in mind. Some are just made to exist or give the rest of the world more context
I think brute bonnet is really cool tbh.
I think this video hard under rates it cuz your only talking about it on the smogon ladder. As with basically all the newer mons it seems to me that it was balanced around VGC where trick room is a way more usable strategy.
Amoongus is already good, so I think making just a better version of it would be unnecessary. Like they aren’t out to replace Amoonguss, it’s supposed to fill it’s own role.
Just got to rank 508 in singles pvp last night solely due to brute bonnet
I highly agree :)
Y'know, at least iron thorns can do threatening dragon dance things since it has juuuust enough speed that it can actually meet some key benchmarks after a DDance, and quark drive can give it some big attack numbers on top of that. I don't think that what it does is particularly good considering dragonite is way better at being a "click dragon dance 1-2 times then sweep" pokemon, but iron thorns does have a useful thing it can do that it does better than the original.
Meanwhile brute bonnet over here is just bad at everything; being unable to do any of the things the original was good at, unable to leverage its new tools well, and being outclassed by freaking wo chien as a "bulky grass/dark pokemon" and as you said kingambit as "slow dark type attacker". I think the most bonnet will end up doing is end up as "that thing that uses spore" in lower tiers. I suppose that not every new pokemon can be a hit but brute bonnet honestly feels like the only paradox that is a genuine downgrade in every relevant way.
Let them come to their senses and grant these paradox forms hidden abilities and suddenly they will have access to the meta
Making variants and having them all maintain the same function type casts them into a niche category. Unlike that Tapus which set up their own unique terrainz, instead they are like if Beast mons were rival schools. They were uniforms, but ulitmately are homogeneous
If you're trying to court a girl, but can't separate from your buds, you lose the game. What is the utility that gives your presence purpose? And if its just a variation of typing, you're as significant as hair, nails, or what your head is shaped like
I think BB might carve out a lower niche , but it got released alongside meowscarada, which if you really are itching for G/D power I don’t see why you’d want BB over that mon
This is a bit sussy amoongus be venting
probably would've worked as Poison/Dark idk
Pokemon was never designed with the competitive scene in mid and never will be.
They design around vgc, the actually official competitive format, all the time. They just dont give a fuck about smogon or singles.
It would be kinda insane if it was grass steel
As someone who almost got swepth by sun ungaboongus, I don't think he is useless, but for sure it's not the same type of pokemon as normal amoonguss.
I think just having it be a better Amoongus would've been poor design. So the niche it fills isn't great in OU, it at least has a unique niche. "Not good in competitive" is not the same as "Not well designed"
IT’S not all bad though!!!
Funny enough. With a sun support and Growth this guy can make a few nice feats on its own.
As proto boost 33% of attack in sun plus a + 2 in attack those sucker punches will sting BADLY.
Combine that with having Close combat to ruin the dark types that can take a sucker. Only issue i see is not hittibg fairys at all.
U couöd fun venoshock or terra type poison with blast. But i think thats just to situational.
Honesty love the new past form design of brute bonnet
to be fair if you were to make an upgraded version of an OU mon youd end up with some nonsense like iron bundle
Love it
Tbh, I doubt Game Freak barely ever considers balancing on design, even back then
Certified sus moment
I agree with Brute Bonnet being inferior, but Iron Thorns at least has some benefits over regular ttar, one amazing one being able to hit all unaware walls for super effective dmg.
Amoongus happy meal at 2am
It's not a form though. It's simply a relative.
DA MONE YGOT DIFRAMT CAISE PF WJAT OM SPENDING
Its almost like game freak is balancing new mons around some other competitive format where bb might actually be good idk
3:42 Even when I was a singles player I understood some mons were designed for doubles. Or was bad opinions a trick to get is all to comment? Cause I'll admit, it worked, I'm still posting this comment and boosting this video in the algorithm. But yeah, it's not that they don't understand, it's that singles 6v6 is not a priority (singles 3v3 is kinda considered, but I don't remember many amogus there)
Thorns does look bad in either format I'll admit, but Brute Bonnet in vgc looks terrifying when they legalize it. Trick Room is the only thing I can think of Amogus does better.
Who cares what type it is when you can simply terra fire and cook anything that can do significant dmg to you that turn, it'll also invalidate that turn of dmg from the opponent, anything that wouldve hit you for super effective dmg is nerfed by fire typing, it also has enough bulk to live any neutral unboosted fighting type attack. It has priority, sustain, status and crazy base stats, to focus on grass/dark typing as an Achilles heel in a game where your type can change is kinda crazy. Dark typing is useful pre-tera so is grass.
they accomplish completely different things
Brute Bonnet it suspiciously worse than the original version, which is still suspiciously strong!
Amoonguss sucks design wise but I have to agree that Bonnet just doesn't cut it competitively... Also why the heck does an ANCIENT pokemon have a poke all design, it already looks like Amoonguss should've given it a different pattern.
It is stated that the creator of the Pokeball was inspired by Amoonguss, not the other way around