Andreas, I can't even begin to describe to you how indispensable you are to the maker community! Thank you for everything you do! I would love to see your explanation of battery powering devices. Keep up the great videos, as always!
Question: if I want to connect my phone to a buck converter ran by a battery, do I need to worry about the amp capacity of the battery frying my phone? Does a phone limit amperage used?
@@AndreasSpiess You could also say a few words about "wires" -- people have a lot of trouble with esp32 brownouts that seem to be caused by long thin wires -- either cheap usb cables, or breadboard wires -- coming from a decent battery or usb supply, but the wires can't handle the current.
I love the "swiss guy" method of checking how hot the regulator gets , also as Cristi Istrate battery and solar charging for a remote weather station would be great to see, again thanks for the great info :)
This method is actually used planet-wide. It works as long the reaction time by the tester is quicker than a rapid temperature increase. Putting some water on a fingertip will give you little bit more time to react.
Using your calibrated finger as a thermal sensor brings back memories from my old power supply design days. We would touch a hot device and if you could say 'supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' without removing your hand its ok. An approach that proved surprisingly accurate when confirmed with more sophisticated thermal instrumentation.
Yes battery vid probably now the most useful as most will use this type to power projects. Alsoand for an alternative update the UPS video and more boards about
Andreas your brain is like a black hole soaking up all knowledge then firing it out like a beam of inspiration across the network... thank you for sharing
Thanks a million. I am still playing with my web radio. I recently rebuilt it, trying to use my 12 volt cell built from an old Apple Laptop battery. What used to be a very clear, wonderful sounding radio now has a horrid hum playing behind the music or talk. I hope that when you get to the battery part of this series the answer to my problem will come up. Oh my mind needs the distraction now, you see we met with the doctor Friday and were told that my good wife of 51 years has a rare version of cancer in her stomach and liver. They can't tell yet, how aggressive it is because it has been known to be nearly benine to very aggressive. Right now they put her in the mid scale. She is home from hospital right now on very strong pain meds, and going through hell. It breaks my heart to see her like this but I guess it's all part of getting old. We should be hearing from the specialist that has been assigned her case next week so we know what treatments are available, and, well, how aggressive we can expect it to be.
Lol I knew "The swiss guy method" as the "fingermeter", it is truly a unique sensor. Thanks for this video though! Some time ago, to avoid learning about all this and to make my life easier, I used an old PC PSU for a project which needed 12v, 5v and 3.3v, be aware though that some need a minimum voltage to operate but in my case some lamps at 12v, an rpi3 + sensors at 5v and multiple sensors at 3.3v was enough to not trigger that protection: it is also excellent for really power hungry devices as my old PSU can handle bursts of a combined 180w on the 3.3v and 5v rails and 23A on the 12v rail. That being said, unless you are building a PC, most of the time this will be overkill. As always, great video, learned a lot from it!
@Andreas Spiess Thank you I think the swiss guy method to check the heat sink temperature damage your finger ;-) To take an external adapter is for most hobbyist the best solution. No high voltage inside the system. Maybe also less EMC problems. To take one of the silver chassis power supplies a hint for earth connection seems recommended. Also if people take a more power full power supply for low power systems as ESP or Raspberry Pi an additional fuse on 5V side is also recommended. Otherwise a short circuit on DC could damage your application. A fire also could damage your room or house. Sometimes I saw on youtube that people take an adapter or silver chassis power supply --> psu inside a box without ventilation holes. Then you have to measure inside temperature and check datasheet of psu to find out at derating curve which power the psu will deliver at 50 or 60 degree. Attention! The power supply will not derate automatically. Good ventilation with fan or holes is also suggestet.
I always have to concentrate a lot to get videos short. So I cannot cover all aspects. Concerning fuses: There you can see the character of a person. I would check that aspect before marriage. My character tends to "fewer fuses" ;-)
Perhaps you already covered it in repairs, but 1st thing always check all your VCC s when troubleshooting. I remember learning this in EE lab 1 after undoing a bunch of wire wrap connections and other things unnecessarily... Saves a lot time.
I should say my preference in case they are both possible has completely shifted from the analog regulator to the switching regulator. So in a case like your keyer, while in many old projects I have used 78xx regulators, today I would immediately go for the switching buck converter. This is mainly because the complexity that was always around switching regulators (how to find suitable components and make it work OK) has been completely taken away by those small ready-made modules like you showed. I just get one of those Chinese modules I order 10 at a time from AliExpress both for fixed and variable voltages and use them without any problem... and no more heat issues. In case I quickly need a supply and have only larger voltage supplies I often take such a module, solder standard black/red supply cable to it and then put a length of heatshrink tubing around it. It can then be used between the lab supply or a wallwart and the project and there is no risk of shortcircuit when it is on the table or somewhere in a corner of the case.
Andreas, when it comes to USB Power Delivery, consider taking a look at the ZY12PDN. These use a button to select between 5, 9, 12, 15, and 20v. You can hold the button down when plugging it in to select the voltage it powers up at, which is really convenient.
@@AndreasSpiess No, but if you hold down the button when you first plug it in, it will start blinking. Pick the voltage, then long-press. It saves it to internal flash, so the next time it comes in, it has the right voltage. It's not as obvious as it should be.
Sorry but I had to stop at 2:51 and go to video 244 where you gave me a revelation and now I am trying to make my powerbank output 12v!!! I will carry on with this video later :D
As always many thanks. My current project is an environmental sensor using the LoRa technology (TTGO LORA32, BME280 plus an analog temp sensor, LiPO 1S battery, maybe solar charger). For use in lobster and mussel farming. Working on the electrical requirements now (i.e. voltage supervisor?, regulator needed?, anything else?). Hoping to get 2 years maintenance free. Looking forward to your next video.
I am very elementary to this power supply stuff and don't know a thing really. I know I need to watch what I am up to with my 3.3v and 5v sensors with my Arduino's and such - barely. But... ...a coverage on batteries would be good because with people looking for green/renewable energy resources, rechargeable battery power supplies might be of interest to some. Such very thorough work as always Andreas - thank you.
Thank you Andreas, excellent video. Although it confirmed my assumption that recycling the usb power adapters in the house is the best methhod for powering my simple projects I learned 2 important lessons: 1- I have been wondering for YEARS why anyone would still choose a linear power adapter, when the newer switching models were so much smaller, efficient and cheaper. You answered this very clearly. 2- I also had bought a number of 7805's "just in case" I need them - since they seemed to be so commonly used in many projects - but I also read some people dismissing them as inferior compared to other regulators. Now I know what they are talking about. Finally: Yes please I would be very interested in a similar video about battery powering options.
Great video as always! Hand tip: if you have decided to use a 7805 and then find it's cooking, you can replace it with a 1-2450-TRACOPOWER which has the same pin out but will deliver 1A comfortably. Not nearly as cheap as the 780x series, but very handy on a PCB. It's a switcher so no heatsink. From memory the drop out voltage is about 1.5v, and you can use up to about 30v on the supply side.
Again another great video :) I’m building a large 16^3 led cube with pl9823 leds. If you calculate the power i need -> 60mA x 4096 x 5v = 1200 watt... So i bought 4 60A, 5V powersupplies, thick wire for 15A, per 256 leds. The proof of concept works. But i also want a kind of standby mode. Leds that are powered, but off, use arround 1mA... Thats 20 watt when off.... So how i was thinking using mosfets to turn all power off (need to switch the 5v, not ground, according to adafruit guide) but with 240A total those mosfet resistances RDSon will also have a huge impact. There is some overlap with battery powered project here (minimize quiescence current). Always something to learn... I’ll think i’ll go read in my electrical engineering book and figure out what to do with those huge current, but watching your youtube video’s is so much more fun ;-)
I fully agree with Daily Cake Slice. Among the Development Board drawings I sent you, there is a new idea for battery power or main power. For batteries you can use a good size 6V, charged by solar and then go to MCP 73123 charger to a 3.3V Lifepo4 Battery to run the ESP WiFi. It hasn't been tested.
There are only a few chargers which also handle LiFePo. If I remember right, the TP5000 uses the MCP 73123. And you are right, LiFePos are a good choice for ESP projects...
Your videos are always wonderful, but this was was especially good. Very clear, concise, friendly, educational, and super-helpful. I feel much more confident in my knowledge of this topic now, and what choices I have available. Thank you!
There are some good videos out for ripple (EEVBlog, for example) and for safety yoou also find many videos.... And I left this link in the description: lygte-info.dk/info/ChargerIndex%20UK.html
yes yes yes, please do a video about battery powering devices. I always have difficulties to find good booster, and if I should try to get an all-in-one board (charger & battery protection &booster), or if it is better to have everything separated. Also interesting would be a discussion in very low power devices, i.e. I have an arduino and RFM22 sending data every 5 minutes working on a single AA battery for 4 to 5 years!
One remark concerning the 5V on the wemos. There is a diode between the USB and the 5V pin on the linear regulator. This diode lowers the voltage by 0,5V or more. Sometimes (if you power other modules using the 5V pin on the wemos) this might play a role. In the end it is better to connect power direct to the 5V pin.
Well. You could work around having to drop down a high voltage at high currents. If you buck regulate down to 1 volt over what you are requiring and then linearly regulate from there. Thus the voltage dropped by the linear regulator is small compared to not having the buck regulator and this makes the setup much more stable and much more efficient.
That was useful and interesting and I'd definitely be interested in a battery edition. One type of power supply I like for small mains projects are the little potted mains to 3.3V or 5V power supplies that you can get on AliExpress for a few pounds. They are small and work well if you want to wire the power supply in permanently.
@@AndreasSpiess You are quite right, it was at 2:20 - I missed it first time round because I had to get my dog to stop barking at the post man (delivering a parcel from AliExpress, appropriately enough). The ones I use are much smaller than that (probably no more than a quarter of the size) and are a lot more clearly labelled but otherwise, probably very similar.
Good one. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic. I agree completely with your thinking and would be interested in how you approach this topic from a battery-supplied application. Thanks again!
A current project I'm working on requires 5 V to power the MCU and various software controlled outputs via USB as well as switching mains on and off via an isolated relay board. I may also need to add some fans for air circulation, also software controlled, which will need a 12 V supply. This video couldn't have come at a better time. Current plan is to hack a socket mount power adapter with built in USB outputs, add a fused power socket with switch, and mount a 240 V socket with switch on the back so mains devices don't need to be butchered to make them compatible. Will be able to add a ground connection too, something that is frequently absent in cheap products even if it would be desirable to have such a thing installed. And yes, a battery version would be grand too! Many thanks.
I'd be interested to see if the linear regulator is actually (electrically) quieter than a buck converter. The linear will propagate the ESP32's noise over the 12V line in addition to the keyboard power line. A switcher will usually be filtered a bit more, and might just reduce the ESP's noise more than a linear.
Andreas, I agree with the compliments and appreciation expressed below. Also, when you discuss battery power options in a planned video, would you consider adding ideas for monitoring the battery voltage and using LoRa to send periodic measurements to the cloud? I want to show trend graphs and send low batt alerts for remote AREDN radio sites on 12v solar systems. Many thanks!!!
Battery apps usually push the size/weight envelope? Almost always multi-rail boost? Inevitably requiring custom board(s)? Layouts become sensitive? Switching frequencies sometimes important? Surely there are tricks and maybe preferred components to accomplish? Maybe a graph/chart or two of operating space vs solution(s)? Especially the ultra-low-power end? A magnetometer measuring once per second or lidar measuring once per ten-minutes, for example?
@@AndreasSpiess - You asked what we wanted to hear about in your upcoming battery video? Just my two-cents that it skew towards ultra-low-power vs C or D-cell applications? Where small is as important as efficiency? Thanks for responding.
Sunday morning: sun, croissant, coffee & Andreas answering my project questions. A good way to start the day. Thanks andreas ! Ps. From across the room my gf says you sound way younger.
Hello Andreas, sure we are interested in power supply with batteries. As you comment in the video please consider also to investigate how to avoid noises on PIR ans radar sensors with our loved esp modules. Battery powered with mqtt could be a great intrusion alarm system but the false positive now makes it poor realistic with the ESP modules.
Any chance you could do an episode on spread spectrum switching converters? They vary the frequency randomly around the center frequency. This lowers peak power at the center frequency and makes it easier to filter out switching noise. I've been keeping my eye out for such a project, but haven't seen anyone do a video on one yet.
Good Refresher course. Thank You. I tend to make all my projects BATTERY Friendly. I avoid mains supplies when ever possible.. I do not trust the mains to be present . I have no control over the mains supply. Someone can always make your mains supply take a nap.
Quiescent current or just in general efficiency of the PSU may not be the first thing to worry in mains powered projects but I think you could mention that we always should set ourselves a goal of creating power-efficient devices. The few more mA taken by old PSU may not make a real-world difference but it is about the mind-set 😉 I don't know what if it fits your plan for battery episode but I'd love to hear of a scenario like "battery charger -> battery -> device" so this is like "battery backuped project". Anyway, well done, looking forward to next episode 😁
Stand-by energy is important if you sell millions of devices, I agree. Humans could save a lot of energy by not driving to the next supermarket or, even worse, to the fitness center, by staying around the house for holidays or WE, etc.
A few months ago I tried to use one of those ADS1115 ADC boards with an 3.3V arduino. The adafruit library doesn't tell you this, but the sample rate actually degrades if you don't power it with 5V. But you also wouldn't notice it, unless you are sampling in continuous mode and using the ready pin or wondering why the values seem to change slower than expected....
Can I power (only) my ESP32 with a 5v 1a (5w) usb power supply? Or do I need theese other strange components? So the problem I am facing here is that I would like to upload code via micro USB and the Arduino IDE to my ESP32 and then be able to run it and turn off my pc. So I would have to upload the code, somehow run the code and change the micro USB plug from the one that runs to the Pc to the one that is connected to the power supply (5v 1a 5w) at the same time, so it is running with the power of the power supply. I don’t need the searial monitor for this project. Thanks
Dear Andreas I'm happy to see that you are somehow using my parametric box designs to make your boxes I might be wrong though... but if I helped YOU I'm more than happy to help an hero of mine! LOL. Would like to love one of batteries and solar power!
Hi Andreas, it was useful AND interesting ;-) Danke schön! (Note: I use the same mini switching regulators as you showed next to the TO220 one, and they can handle up to 23V input)
Laptop power supplies are great if you need a bit more power. They are mostly well-built, safe, compact, widely available and their typical 19V output is easy to buck down at the point of load as many switchers accept up to 24V. For OCD sufferers who don't want to cut off the nicely molded original plug it can be a challenge to find the matching input jack :-)
If you know of a good buck-boost chip that is easy to calculate and design for, I would be interested. I have my references saved for the MC34063 and UC3842. I've used the MC34063 several times. I've modified circuits with the UC3842, but still haven't built anything from scratch. The inability to measure inductors accurately makes me hesitate to build something over 10-20 watts from scratch. I would rather use a working mains power brick design and modify it to suit my needs. I would probably need something like a component calculator for a buck-boost topology. This is how I got started with the MC34063 and UC3842. The key for me was a calculator that allowed me to change values on the fly. For instance, I can input the frequency, voltage, current, and acceptable ripple noise, and things like the inductance and component values are given. Lots of tools can do this, but the most effective ones can reverse the calculation. Meaning, I can modify the initial results to change the inductance value and see the way it influences voltage/current/noise. This allows me to design something based on what I already have laying around. Ultimately, I need either a thorough breakdown of the topology and application, or I need a way to plug my values into the simplest possible equations to get started. I have salvaged a couple of buck-boost circuits from old wireless computer mice, but the datasheets for the chips I've seen are not very good, usually not in English either. I don't have a go-to example I am confident I can replicate. Thanks for the upload. -Jake
I once started to watch some videos about the construction of power supplies and decided not to start with this "science". So I do not know particular chips. I buy them on boards. BTW you get reasonably priced LCR meters (I have a DE-5000) and even the cheap transistor testers were quite accurate when I did a few comparisons.
Also nice to know: human pain limit is around 50 degrees centigrade. So you should have some cooling room but it's good practice to try to stay below 50C for homebrew projects.
I have a project in which I have an Arduino Nano which needs to power a NEMA 17 stepper motor via a A4988 driver. I have a 12V/2A DC adapter. The question is... Can I connect this supply both to the Vin pin on the arduino AND the Vmotor pin on the A4988 and power both of them at the same time (without using an additional 5V power supply for the arduino)? Note that I would like to use the Vin pin because it accepts 12V as well, so I don't even need a buck converter... Thanks!
I would not power the Arduino with 12 volts. The AMS1117 voltage regulator probably gets quite hot. But maybe you try and put your finger on the voltage regulator.
I would have loved to get some information on power loss when project is in idle for always connected projects. Is there something which should be observed for such an case. For example a µC controlling multiple light outputs and most of the time standing by until lights get turned on. What's efficiency on such low power or is that something which does not matter at all?
It depends on your view if it matters. If you build one project, the grey energy inside the project is factors bigger than the standby current. And if you drive to the next supermarket you waste more energy than your project for the next 5 years... It might be different if you sell a million devices of your project.
I'm having a power supply problem that is driving me crazy, because it seems so simple: I have an ESP8266 with BME280 temperature/humidity/pressure sensor, a radar motion detector, and an LDR with some resistors to measure light. I have a 1,000uF capacitor on the 5V pin. It works fine when powered from my laptop USB. But when I put it on a USB power supply, the BME280 sensor returns bad values (temperature -145.10, pressure 1238.77, humidity 0), but everything else works. I started with my usual very cheap 1A USB power supplies, then tried cheap 2A supplies, then an official Raspberry Pi 2.5A supply, then a 3A powered USB hub, with the same result. It has been working fine from my laptop for a week now, but that means I have to leave my laptop on and I can't take it anywhere! Is there a design difference between a laptop USB and a USB power supply? Am I overlooking something obvious? I plan to put some of these outside, using solar powered powerbanks, so I hope you will cover those next...
I want to use 5 V from PC usb for my RF-converter for rtl-sdr. What actions should I take against noise in the power line? Would simple LC-filter works OK? Or maybe I don't need anything to do?
Grüezi Andreas, many thanks (again) for this video - while I “somehow” knew how to power my projects I do now have a very structured approach to it. I’d love to see the battery video - greetings ausm großen Kanton ;-)
I noticed a slight error in the video: you mentioned that all USB power supplies can supply at least 5v 1a. That should be 5v, 500ma. Slight difference, but it might matter sometimes.
I get the general idea of the "Swiss Guy" method, but exactly what is the range of good versus bad in this test? And, since you are using a gloved hand in the video, how does that change the perceived result? We used to use a USA Underwriter's Lab (UL) standard for the maximum allowable temperature for the cases of our office equipment. The number is 137 degrees F (58 C). It is, according to UL, the maximum temperature on a surface that a human can touch for an extended period of time without having to say "ouch". Is that what you have in mind? And how do you deal with it when you are wearing gloves? ----Maybe I am just nit-picking?
I assume our sensors are similar here, just calibrated in degrees centigrade ;-) 60 degrees centigrade is usually not bad because most parts are rated higher. So you the risk is mitigated.
I actually expected something about power supply shown on top left corner at 0:16, but it is none the less very informative! What about powering multiple loads from single power source? I'm working on replacing dozen of power supplies 12v in network rack with single power supply which I also can keep multiple spares
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Andreas, I can't even begin to describe to you how indispensable you are to the maker community! Thank you for everything you do!
I would love to see your explanation of battery powering devices. Keep up the great videos, as always!
Well put on both counts, I fully agree.
Thank you for your very nice words!
Question: if I want to connect my phone to a buck converter ran by a battery, do I need to worry about the amp capacity of the battery frying my phone?
Does a phone limit amperage used?
Useful, battery supplies next please 👍
Noted!
@@AndreasSpiess You could also say a few words about "wires" -- people have a lot of trouble with esp32 brownouts that seem to be caused by long thin wires -- either cheap usb cables, or breadboard wires -- coming from a decent battery or usb supply, but the wires can't handle the current.
Battery powered and solar charging, for a external weather station will be nice to discuss.
Thank you for your feedback!
Really, there were a couple of videos from Andreas concerning this specific subject, the series was abruptly interrupted due to lack of sun
I agree!
@@AndreasSpiess I really want to know about this!!!
I agree!
Nice overview ... and yes do it for battery solutions too (please) - 73 from Berlin
Thank you! Maybe I should include all videos already done by me for batteries...
I love the "swiss guy" method of checking how hot the regulator gets , also as Cristi Istrate battery and solar charging for a remote weather station would be great to see, again thanks for the great info :)
This method is actually used planet-wide. It works as long the reaction time by the tester is quicker than a rapid temperature increase. Putting some water on a fingertip will give you little bit more time to react.
Noted!
8 years in switzerland and is the first time I heard of such a swiss precision thermometer!
only the watches are more precies ;-)
You see, it is worthwhile to sit in the first row ;-)
Using your calibrated finger as a thermal sensor brings back memories from my old power supply design days. We would touch a hot device and if you could say 'supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' without removing your hand its ok. An approach that proved surprisingly accurate when confirmed with more sophisticated thermal instrumentation.
Humans have excellent sensors, I think. And many survived over the centuries without sophisticated instruments...
As a noob into ESP32 projects I approve this video! Thank you very much for making these!
Glad it was helpful!
Yes, please. A battery’s focused one would be much appreciated.
Cheers!
Thank you for your feedback!
Yes battery vid probably now the most useful as most will use this type to power projects. Alsoand for an alternative update the UPS video and more boards about
I have some boards in the mail. Since quite a long time :-(
Andreas your brain is like a black hole soaking up all knowledge then firing it out like a beam of inspiration across the network... thank you for sharing
Thank you for your nice words!
Thanks a million. I am still playing with my web radio. I recently rebuilt it, trying to use my 12 volt cell built from an old Apple Laptop battery. What used to be a very clear, wonderful sounding radio now has a horrid hum playing behind the music or talk. I hope that when you get to the battery part of this series the answer to my problem will come up. Oh my mind needs the distraction now, you see we met with the doctor Friday and were told that my good wife of 51 years has a rare version of cancer in her stomach and liver. They can't tell yet, how aggressive it is because it has been known to be nearly benine to very aggressive. Right now they put her in the mid scale. She is home from hospital right now on very strong pain meds, and going through hell. It breaks my heart to see her like this but I guess it's all part of getting old. We should be hearing from the specialist that has been assigned her case next week so we know what treatments are available, and, well, how aggressive we can expect it to be.
I wish you a lot of luck. My wife was also extremely ill and now she is well again. I hope the same for your wife!
I was trying to give some advice to a friend about this, but then I found your video, much more than I can say. Thank for this precious lecture.
Glad I could help!
Thanks Andreas. I'm looking for the next episode regarding battery supplies.
Thank you for your feedback!
Lol I knew "The swiss guy method" as the "fingermeter", it is truly a unique sensor.
Thanks for this video though! Some time ago, to avoid learning about all this and to make my life easier, I used an old PC PSU for a project which needed 12v, 5v and 3.3v, be aware though that some need a minimum voltage to operate but in my case some lamps at 12v, an rpi3 + sensors at 5v and multiple sensors at 3.3v was enough to not trigger that protection: it is also excellent for really power hungry devices as my old PSU can handle bursts of a combined 180w on the 3.3v and 5v rails and 23A on the 12v rail.
That being said, unless you are building a PC, most of the time this will be overkill.
As always, great video, learned a lot from it!
You even can buy connectors to build a full-blown Bench power supply of a old PC PS. Probably the cheapest way to get power on your bench
@Andreas Spiess
Thank you
I think the swiss guy method to check the heat sink temperature damage your finger ;-)
To take an external adapter is for most hobbyist the best solution. No high voltage inside the system. Maybe also less EMC problems.
To take one of the silver chassis power supplies a hint for earth connection seems recommended.
Also if people take a more power full power supply for low power systems as ESP or Raspberry Pi an additional fuse on 5V side is also recommended.
Otherwise a short circuit on DC could damage your application. A fire also could damage your room or house.
Sometimes I saw on youtube that people take an adapter or silver chassis power supply --> psu inside a box without ventilation holes. Then you have to measure inside temperature and check datasheet of psu to find out at derating curve which power the psu will deliver at 50 or 60 degree. Attention! The power supply will not derate automatically.
Good ventilation with fan or holes is also suggestet.
I think my grandmother used a similar method for checking the flat iron was up to temperature :)
I always have to concentrate a lot to get videos short. So I cannot cover all aspects. Concerning fuses: There you can see the character of a person. I would check that aspect before marriage. My character tends to "fewer fuses" ;-)
Perhaps you already covered it in repairs, but 1st thing always check all your VCC s when troubleshooting. I remember learning this in EE lab 1 after undoing a bunch of wire wrap connections and other things unnecessarily... Saves a lot time.
I even start with checking ground ;-) If it is ok the chance that you mixed plus and minus is very small...
I should say my preference in case they are both possible has completely shifted from the analog regulator to the switching regulator.
So in a case like your keyer, while in many old projects I have used 78xx regulators, today I would immediately go for the switching buck converter.
This is mainly because the complexity that was always around switching regulators (how to find suitable components and make it work OK) has been completely taken away by those small ready-made modules like you showed.
I just get one of those Chinese modules I order 10 at a time from AliExpress both for fixed and variable voltages and use them without any problem... and no more heat issues.
In case I quickly need a supply and have only larger voltage supplies I often take such a module, solder standard black/red supply cable to it and then put a length of heatshrink tubing around it. It can then be used between the lab supply or a wallwart and the project and there is no risk of shortcircuit when it is on the table or somewhere in a corner of the case.
You are right. I also like these small boards and have quite a few laying around. But maybe I am a little old-fashioned ;-)
Andreas, when it comes to USB Power Delivery, consider taking a look at the ZY12PDN. These use a button to select between 5, 9, 12, 15, and 20v. You can hold the button down when plugging it in to select the voltage it powers up at, which is really convenient.
I have soch a PCB. Would you like to push buttons every time you start your project?
@@AndreasSpiess No, but if you hold down the button when you first plug it in, it will start blinking. Pick the voltage, then long-press. It saves it to internal flash, so the next time it comes in, it has the right voltage.
It's not as obvious as it should be.
Thank you for the tip!
Sorry but I had to stop at 2:51 and go to video 244 where you gave me a revelation and now I am trying to make my powerbank output 12v!!! I will carry on with this video later :D
Take your time!
As always many thanks. My current project is an environmental sensor using the LoRa technology (TTGO LORA32, BME280 plus an analog temp sensor, LiPO 1S battery, maybe solar charger). For use in lobster and mussel farming. Working on the electrical requirements now (i.e. voltage supervisor?, regulator needed?, anything else?). Hoping to get 2 years maintenance free. Looking forward to your next video.
Always good if projects create a real value!
I am very elementary to this power supply stuff and don't know a thing really. I know I need to watch what I am up to with my 3.3v and 5v sensors with my Arduino's and such - barely. But... ...a coverage on batteries would be good because with people looking for green/renewable energy resources, rechargeable battery power supplies might be of interest to some. Such very thorough work as always Andreas - thank you.
Thank you for your feedback!
Thank you Andreas, excellent video. Although it confirmed my assumption that recycling the usb power adapters in the house is the best methhod for powering my simple projects I learned 2 important lessons: 1- I have been wondering for YEARS why anyone would still choose a linear power adapter, when the newer switching models were so much smaller, efficient and cheaper. You answered this very clearly. 2- I also had bought a number of 7805's "just in case" I need them - since they seemed to be so commonly used in many projects - but I also read some people dismissing them as inferior compared to other regulators. Now I know what they are talking about. Finally: Yes please I would be very interested in a similar video about battery powering options.
The 78XX are nearly as old as I am. So for sure you get better ones these day. But they work for mains powered projects and are cheap...
Please make a video how to provide a solar/ battery powered power supply for outdoor projects.
Thank you for your feedback!
Yes. Please do a battery video. I make esp32 /arduino robots and need to supply 3.3 for the mpu and 6-12 volts for the motors.
Thank you for your feedback!
Great video as always!
Hand tip: if you have decided to use a 7805 and then find it's cooking, you can replace it with a 1-2450-TRACOPOWER which has the same pin out but will deliver 1A comfortably. Not nearly as cheap as the 780x series, but very handy on a PCB. It's a switcher so no heatsink. From memory the drop out voltage is about 1.5v, and you can use up to about 30v on the supply side.
Thanks for the info!
@@AndreasSpiess I think the 24xx series matches the 78xx parts for voltage out. They might also be handy in battery powered designs.
Very useful video. A similar episode about battery power would be very much appreciated!
Noted!
Thankx. Very useful info. Yes please, do a video on battery powered devices.
Thank you for your feedback!
Andreas, A useful follow-up video should be on smoothing, de-coupling, ripple, noise , etc. Are there some "Swiss Guy" solutions here too?
This is a rather special area, maybe not too interesting for many subscribers :-(
whitefields5595 EEVBlog has good videos for that.
Andreas Spiess I would still love to see your video on it. Your videos are always very straightforward without much laber rhabarber.
@@AndreasSpiess Haha, you are right. Also EMC is a big problem for hobbyist to solve. I will say impossible!
I'm definitely interested in those topics, especially if illuminated the "Swiss Guy" way!
Again another great video :) I’m building a large 16^3 led cube with pl9823 leds. If you calculate the power i need -> 60mA x 4096 x 5v = 1200 watt... So i bought 4 60A, 5V powersupplies, thick wire for 15A, per 256 leds. The proof of concept works. But i also want a kind of standby mode. Leds that are powered, but off, use arround 1mA... Thats 20 watt when off.... So how i was thinking using mosfets to turn all power off (need to switch the 5v, not ground, according to adafruit guide) but with 240A total those mosfet resistances RDSon will also have a huge impact. There is some overlap with battery powered project here (minimize quiescence current). Always something to learn... I’ll think i’ll go read in my electrical engineering book and figure out what to do with those huge current, but watching your youtube video’s is so much more fun ;-)
You probably need one FET per power line. Then currents are a little lower...
Thank you, very useful and interesting. Also, yes please for the battery version. I would also like to see solar + battery. Thank you
Noted!
I fully agree with Daily Cake Slice. Among the Development Board drawings I sent you, there is a new idea for battery power or main power. For batteries you can use a good size 6V, charged by solar and then go to MCP 73123 charger to a 3.3V Lifepo4 Battery to run the ESP WiFi. It hasn't been tested.
There are only a few chargers which also handle LiFePo. If I remember right, the TP5000 uses the MCP 73123. And you are right, LiFePos are a good choice for ESP projects...
i love power supplies, i'd love to see your video on battery supplies, actually all the types of power supplies really!
Noted!
Thanks Andreas, yes, battery supplies next....
Noted!
Another great Swiss Guy production. Yes to the battery and solar charging. I need help cutting the cord!
Noted!
I never knew the name of the "sophisticated Swiss guy" method! Been using that all my life. Makes things exciting, especially when I'm not looking. 😁
If you are fast you do not need to look...
In thinking over what I have learned from you, I have FINALLY decided to sponsor you on Patreon. Thanks for your efforts!
And thank you for your support. It is appreciated!
@@AndreasSpiess I thought you might thank me, but let me thank you for teaching me so many, many things! ...and I really enjoy the Swiss accent! :)
Thanks for a logical approach and working through the different PSUs very informative.
Glad it was helpful!
thanks. I need a small hand with a white glove and an infrared sensor to check the heat for the tension regulator.
I am not sure that this modified method works ;-)
A really informative video! I'd love to see you cover the other methods for power supply as well.
Noted!
Your videos are always wonderful, but this was was especially good. Very clear, concise, friendly, educational, and super-helpful. I feel much more confident in my knowledge of this topic now, and what choices I have available. Thank you!
Thank you for your nice words!
Excellent video, I'd definitely like one for batteries. As someone said, it would be nice to see something about ripple, noise, etc. Also isolation.
There are some good videos out for ripple (EEVBlog, for example) and for safety yoou also find many videos.... And I left this link in the description: lygte-info.dk/info/ChargerIndex%20UK.html
Very useful! Please cover the battery case. Thank you.
Noted!
yes yes yes, please do a video about battery powering devices. I always have difficulties to find good booster, and if I should try to get an all-in-one board (charger & battery protection &booster), or if it is better to have everything separated. Also interesting would be a discussion in very low power devices, i.e. I have an arduino and RFM22 sending data every 5 minutes working on a single AA battery for 4 to 5 years!
Noted!
I love your channel and your explanation, thanks for sharing your knowledge! The best method is the "swiss guy".
Thank you for your nice words!
One remark concerning the 5V on the wemos. There is a diode between the USB and the 5V pin on the linear regulator. This diode lowers the voltage by 0,5V or more. Sometimes (if you power other modules using the 5V pin on the wemos) this might play a role. In the end it is better to connect power direct to the 5V pin.
Good point. Thanks for clarification
Well. You could work around having to drop down a high voltage at high currents.
If you buck regulate down to 1 volt over what you are requiring and then linearly regulate from there. Thus the voltage dropped by the linear regulator is small compared to not having the buck regulator and this makes the setup much more stable and much more efficient.
Then I do not see the need for a linear regulator unless you have a special case. It will not kill the noise, unfortunately :-(
@@AndreasSpiess I may have been misinformed, but i saw Dave Jones review a linearly regulated buck power supply. it was smart
Thanks for the video, sure we will be waiting for video on battery powered and solar
Ok. Thanks
Thank you for the overview. Yes, please make a video about battery powered projects!
Noted!
Very useful to remember some concepts and tricks. Could be interesting if you can do a video on the battery part too. Many thanks, Jorge.
Noted
That was useful and interesting and I'd definitely be interested in a battery edition.
One type of power supply I like for small mains projects are the little potted mains to 3.3V or 5V power supplies that you can get on AliExpress for a few pounds. They are small and work well if you want to wire the power supply in permanently.
I think I showed one in the video. I also use them sometimes.
@@AndreasSpiess You are quite right, it was at 2:20 - I missed it first time round because I had to get my dog to stop barking at the post man (delivering a parcel from AliExpress, appropriately enough). The ones I use are much smaller than that (probably no more than a quarter of the size) and are a lot more clearly labelled but otherwise, probably very similar.
Thank you for bringing this video and the knowledge to us.
I would definitely be interested in seeing the Battery Power part of this and solar also.
Will do!
Good one. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic. I agree completely with your thinking and would be interested in how you approach this topic from a battery-supplied application. Thanks again!
We will see... Your wish is noted.
I would love to see the battery (and solar) powering solutions!
Noted!
Love the decision tree. Yes, please do a similar video for the battery powered. Thanks!
Will do!
Thanks for those hints, Battery and Solarpower would be really nice...
Noted!
A current project I'm working on requires 5 V to power the MCU and various software controlled outputs via USB as well as switching mains on and off via an isolated relay board. I may also need to add some fans for air circulation, also software controlled, which will need a 12 V supply. This video couldn't have come at a better time. Current plan is to hack a socket mount power adapter with built in USB outputs, add a fused power socket with switch, and mount a 240 V socket with switch on the back so mains devices don't need to be butchered to make them compatible. Will be able to add a ground connection too, something that is frequently absent in cheap products even if it would be desirable to have such a thing installed.
And yes, a battery version would be grand too! Many thanks.
Nice project you have!
I'd be interested to see if the linear regulator is actually (electrically) quieter than a buck converter. The linear will propagate the ESP32's noise over the 12V line in addition to the keyboard power line. A switcher will usually be filtered a bit more, and might just reduce the ESP's noise more than a linear.
Maybe. I do not know.
Andreas, I agree with the compliments and appreciation expressed below. Also, when you discuss battery power options in a planned video, would you consider adding ideas for monitoring the battery voltage and using LoRa to send periodic measurements to the cloud? I want to show trend graphs and send low batt alerts for remote AREDN radio sites on 12v solar systems. Many thanks!!!
Usually you can build your particular project with parts of my videos...
Thank you for this. And yes please do one for battery powered projects.
Noted!
Battery apps usually push the size/weight envelope? Almost always multi-rail boost? Inevitably requiring custom board(s)? Layouts become sensitive? Switching frequencies sometimes important? Surely there are tricks and maybe preferred components to accomplish? Maybe a graph/chart or two of operating space vs solution(s)? Especially the ultra-low-power end? A magnetometer measuring once per second or lidar measuring once per ten-minutes, for example?
This video was focused on mains powered devices. And many of your questions are far too special for the normal viewer, I think.
@@AndreasSpiess - You asked what we wanted to hear about in your upcoming battery video? Just my two-cents that it skew towards ultra-low-power vs C or D-cell applications? Where small is as important as efficiency? Thanks for responding.
Aha. Now I understand. Thanks!
Very useful, would like to see the battery and solar videos as well. Please keep the videos coming.
Noted!
Sunday morning: sun, croissant, coffee & Andreas answering my project questions. A good way to start the day.
Thanks andreas !
Ps. From across the room my gf says you sound way younger.
Thank you for the compliment! So the investment in a good microphone was worth the money ;-)
Awesome. Please post the batteries series and how to program esp8266 using embedded c. Thank you. Please consider my request.
Will do (not the embedded c)
very handy summary. thanks! and please prepare the battery related one:)
Will do!
Hello Andreas, sure we are interested in power supply with batteries.
As you comment in the video please consider also to investigate how to avoid noises on PIR ans radar sensors with our loved esp modules. Battery powered with mqtt could be a great intrusion alarm system but the false positive now makes it poor realistic with the ESP modules.
I made some remarks about the topic in one of my last videos. I think it was a mailbag.
13:42 FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER
are you referring to the electro boom? :)
He did not invent it, he just made a joke of it ;-)
Any chance you could do an episode on spread spectrum switching converters? They vary the frequency randomly around the center frequency. This lowers peak power at the center frequency and makes it easier to filter out switching noise. I've been keeping my eye out for such a project, but haven't seen anyone do a video on one yet.
I think this is too specialized for my channel and I also have no particular knowledge in this area. So somebody else has to do it.
Good Refresher course. Thank You. I tend to make all my projects BATTERY Friendly. I avoid mains supplies when ever possible.. I do not trust the mains to be present . I have no control over the mains supply. Someone can always make your mains supply take a nap.
Here it is very stable. So I tend to use it if I am stationary...
Quiescent current or just in general efficiency of the PSU may not be the first thing to worry in mains powered projects but I think you could mention that we always should set ourselves a goal of creating power-efficient devices. The few more mA taken by old PSU may not make a real-world difference but it is about the mind-set 😉
I don't know what if it fits your plan for battery episode but I'd love to hear of a scenario like "battery charger -> battery -> device" so this is like "battery backuped project".
Anyway, well done, looking forward to next episode 😁
Stand-by energy is important if you sell millions of devices, I agree. Humans could save a lot of energy by not driving to the next supermarket or, even worse, to the fitness center, by staying around the house for holidays or WE, etc.
You should see Great Scott video about usb c. He explained how to create all available voltages in power delivery protocol.
I know that video and I have such boards. But I do not want to press 3 times everytime when I power my board...
A few months ago I tried to use one of those ADS1115 ADC boards with an 3.3V arduino. The adafruit library doesn't tell you this, but the sample rate actually degrades if you don't power it with 5V. But you also wouldn't notice it, unless you are sampling in continuous mode and using the ready pin or wondering why the values seem to change slower than expected....
Strange. The chip is rated from 2 - 5 volts...
@@AndreasSpiess It works for 3.3v, and i'm sure the datasheet specifies that. Or the problem has to do with Chinese knockoffs...
Just an information: All your comments are in my TH-cam spam filter and I have to deblock them ....
Extremely helpful as always. Thank you! Battery focused episode would be great.
Noted!
Can I power (only) my ESP32 with a 5v 1a (5w) usb power supply? Or do I need theese other strange components?
So the problem I am facing here is that I would like to upload code via micro USB and the Arduino IDE to my ESP32 and then be able to run it and turn off my pc. So I would have to upload the code, somehow run the code and change the micro USB plug from the one that runs to the Pc to the one that is connected to the power supply (5v 1a 5w) at the same time, so it is running with the power of the power supply. I don’t need the searial monitor for this project. Thanks
Dear Andreas I'm happy to see that you are somehow using my parametric box designs to make your boxes I might be wrong though... but if I helped YOU I'm more than happy to help an hero of mine! LOL. Would like to love one of batteries and solar power!
I use my own design in Fusion360 (I showed it once in a video). I like this aproache because I alsways need some special cases...
Hi Andreas, it was useful AND interesting ;-) Danke schön! (Note: I use the same mini switching regulators as you showed next to the TO220 one, and they can handle up to 23V input)
You are right.
A battery power supply video would be great along with another decision tree. Thanks
Noted!
Great video. Please kindly make one about Battery Supplies for makers.
Noted
Laptop power supplies are great if you need a bit more power. They are mostly well-built, safe, compact, widely available and their typical 19V output is easy to buck down at the point of load as many switchers accept up to 24V.
For OCD sufferers who don't want to cut off the nicely molded original plug it can be a challenge to find the matching input jack :-)
You are right. I also use one to power a small bench power supply. They are also quite strong...
Very nice videos. Please make a video about batteries, specially about boosting the voltage
Noted.
Danke schoen ! Das video tutorial ist sehr gut ! Tschuss ! Sorry for my lack of linguistic ability, Andreas.
No problem. I also do not speak most of the languages...
Great video, can you please suggest a method to simulate different sensors or how to model different sesnsors in multisim
?..
If you know of a good buck-boost chip that is easy to calculate and design for, I would be interested.
I have my references saved for the MC34063 and UC3842. I've used the MC34063 several times. I've modified circuits with the UC3842, but still haven't built anything from scratch. The inability to measure inductors accurately makes me hesitate to build something over 10-20 watts from scratch. I would rather use a working mains power brick design and modify it to suit my needs.
I would probably need something like a component calculator for a buck-boost topology. This is how I got started with the MC34063 and UC3842. The key for me was a calculator that allowed me to change values on the fly. For instance, I can input the frequency, voltage, current, and acceptable ripple noise, and things like the inductance and component values are given. Lots of tools can do this, but the most effective ones can reverse the calculation. Meaning, I can modify the initial results to change the inductance value and see the way it influences voltage/current/noise. This allows me to design something based on what I already have laying around.
Ultimately, I need either a thorough breakdown of the topology and application, or I need a way to plug my values into the simplest possible equations to get started. I have salvaged a couple of buck-boost circuits from old wireless computer mice, but the datasheets for the chips I've seen are not very good, usually not in English either. I don't have a go-to example I am confident I can replicate.
Thanks for the upload.
-Jake
I once started to watch some videos about the construction of power supplies and decided not to start with this "science". So I do not know particular chips. I buy them on boards. BTW you get reasonably priced LCR meters (I have a DE-5000) and even the cheap transistor testers were quite accurate when I did a few comparisons.
Also nice to know: human pain limit is around 50 degrees centigrade. So you should have some cooling room but it's good practice to try to stay below 50C for homebrew projects.
Probably depends on how long you touch it... I agree with you concerning the 50 degrees, at least where I live.
I have a project in which I have an Arduino Nano which needs to power a NEMA 17 stepper motor via a A4988 driver. I have a 12V/2A DC adapter. The question is... Can I connect this supply both to the Vin pin on the arduino AND the Vmotor pin on the A4988 and power both of them at the same time (without using an additional 5V power supply for the arduino)? Note that I would like to use the Vin pin because it accepts 12V as well, so I don't even need a buck converter... Thanks!
I would not power the Arduino with 12 volts. The AMS1117 voltage regulator probably gets quite hot. But maybe you try and put your finger on the voltage regulator.
If you do the battery solutions please do one with battery backup. Power from mains if available and from the battery if power is lost.
Might be one aspect...
As always, a lot of very useful information on a short video. Thanks a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
USB-C PD power bricks or batteries don't always offer 12Vm xo that might be your problem. More often they deliver 5V and 9, 15V and 20V
You can make them deliver all voltages in between, too. You just need to know, how ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess and that depends on the PD driver chip. Some understand the request... but mostly ignored
Battery supplies next and maybe the "maths" to calculate the runtime, especially when the load varies. Thank you for another excellent video.
I made such a "math" video long time ago for the ESP8266...
Thanksa lot for the video. If possible please do one on battery powered devices as well
Noted!
I would have loved to get some information on power loss when project is in idle for always connected projects. Is there something which should be observed for such an case. For example a µC controlling multiple light outputs and most of the time standing by until lights get turned on. What's efficiency on such low power or is that something which does not matter at all?
It depends on your view if it matters. If you build one project, the grey energy inside the project is factors bigger than the standby current. And if you drive to the next supermarket you waste more energy than your project for the next 5 years... It might be different if you sell a million devices of your project.
Spring is shining outside, robins (or rotkerlchen) sing looking for adventure, the projects migrate outside to sun. Solar!
Noted!
I'm having a power supply problem that is driving me crazy, because it seems so simple: I have an ESP8266 with BME280 temperature/humidity/pressure sensor, a radar motion detector, and an LDR with some resistors to measure light. I have a 1,000uF capacitor on the 5V pin. It works fine when powered from my laptop USB. But when I put it on a USB power supply, the BME280 sensor returns bad values (temperature -145.10, pressure 1238.77, humidity 0), but everything else works. I started with my usual very cheap 1A USB power supplies, then tried cheap 2A supplies, then an official Raspberry Pi 2.5A supply, then a 3A powered USB hub, with the same result. It has been working fine from my laptop for a week now, but that means I have to leave my laptop on and I can't take it anywhere! Is there a design difference between a laptop USB and a USB power supply? Am I overlooking something obvious?
I plan to put some of these outside, using solar powered powerbanks, so I hope you will cover those next...
These problems are not easy to hunt down. With a battery it should be better.
I want to use 5 V from PC usb for my RF-converter for rtl-sdr. What actions should I take against noise in the power line? Would simple LC-filter works OK? Or maybe I don't need anything to do?
I think most people plug the SDR dongles in their USB connectors. These dongles are not very sensitive anyway.
Grüezi Andreas, many thanks (again) for this video - while I “somehow” knew how to power my projects I do now have a very structured approach to it. I’d love to see the battery video - greetings ausm großen Kanton ;-)
You are welcome. And your vote is noted.
I noticed a slight error in the video: you mentioned that all USB power supplies can supply at least 5v 1a. That should be 5v, 500ma. Slight difference, but it might matter sometimes.
You are right. But this rule is very old and for a long time, I did not see any of those.
I would really really love to hear about outside battery powered projects!!!!!
Noted!
I get the general idea of the "Swiss Guy" method, but exactly what is the range of good versus bad in this test? And, since you are using a gloved hand in the video, how does that change the perceived result? We used to use a USA Underwriter's Lab (UL) standard for the maximum allowable temperature for the cases of our office equipment. The number is 137 degrees F (58 C). It is, according to UL, the maximum temperature on a surface that a human can touch for an extended period of time without having to say "ouch". Is that what you have in mind? And how do you deal with it when you are wearing gloves? ----Maybe I am just nit-picking?
I assume our sensors are similar here, just calibrated in degrees centigrade ;-) 60 degrees centigrade is usually not bad because most parts are rated higher. So you the risk is mitigated.
I actually expected something about power supply shown on top left corner at 0:16, but it is none the less very informative!
What about powering multiple loads from single power source? I'm working on replacing dozen of power supplies 12v in network rack with single power supply which I also can keep multiple spares
If the loads need the same voltage you connect them to one supply and make sure it delivers enough current.
A very useful video as always. I would like to see a video for batteries.
Noted. Thanks!