War Thunder Naval- This Was Supposed To Kill World of Warships, But Now Its Dead
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ค. 2024
- Hey guys! Today we take a look back at War Thunder Naval and discuss its current very, unhealthy state. Enjoy!
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Lets be clear, greed and slow progress killed it, nothing else.
and being a worse grind than what we have with wows. even with a premium account the grind in warthunder is so insanely BAD
Yep, why would I spend dozens of hours to grind one ship, when I could get multiple ships for the same grind.
@@nicholaskibler2556 what is bad is how slow the silver lion grind is. you have to get like 15 kills to make anything and that's if you have a prem account
@@godlynewbie yeah vs wows where you slap a booster on and do clan battles and you take in a couple mil
Also the naval gameplay is boring as shit. You can encounter slow progress in tank and plane battles but you don’t see those mode dying soon unlike Naval
Tiny maps with 0 spawn protection was a massive mistake.
Wait you mean WoWs has spawn protection?
I recall always being harassed by cvs after about 30 seconds, which is essentially when you spawn considering it takes atleast 2 minutes for combat to start, atleast 2 years ago, before super ships and subs and UGHGH I can't take it.
@@nineonine9082 it’s better then being damaged before you can see your screen. You respawn in war thunder and nothing stops them from being in or behind your spawn.
The only spawn protection is the dispersion of shells in low tier the limited range of guns and the occasional rainy fog
@@MagnumLoadedTractor Better than spawning in already damaged tbh.
@@nineonine9082 In WT you can literally get insta-killed 3 times in a row easily in naval mode, it happens constantly when I use the Hipper, just, some battlecruiser or battleship blows me up instantly with massive HE shells
My Main 3 Problems are:
1. No actual Gameplay
2. Horrible Map Design. Like, the worst I've seen in any game ever
3. Horrible Progression
My issue is, this is the same issues with normal War Thunder in general but apparently people can't get enough of it in tanks
@@Hascienda27 Whut?
1. Gameplay is the exact reason people play tanks and planes, it's leagues better than WoT, and World of Warplanes which is dead in all definition of the word .And WoT is you sit with 2l of bear waiting the circle to become smaller so you can shoot hp out of tank that has the simpliest hitbox possible in the game where most tanks only existed in the imagination of gamedev
2. Map design's are not so good, new maps except Calambria are good, but the older ones aren't
3. Progression isshit if you play without prem, and a huge problem if you play to grind and not to enjoy.I have 3 Tier 10 tank's in WoT but in WT with triple amount of time a put in i have 3 nations to 8.7 and 2 to 10.0 without prem acc, so no top tier yet. Play to enjoy the mechanics, and that sweet "Target destroyed", not to grind
@@kosten009 Air RB gameplay is boring on low-mid br and the top tier is filled with missile throws, naval mid br like 3.3 actually has much more fun gameplay with its coastal vessel that jumps straight into the action and is able to respawn and most ship can be killed by each other as heavily armed cruiser or battleship haven't exist, the good air battle is ironically are ground rb or naval rb where plane can do more just one job unlike air rb that is fighter heavy oriented, or sim if you have many free time
The only "Good" gameplay are tanks
@@kosten0091. Gameplay loop is bad and way too repetitive in EVERY MODE in WT, we need more missions other than domination and capture the enemy's big base. Also why are you bringing up WoT?
2. Personal taste, but the maps suck, they can't get the balance. Italy which you say is bad, I kinda like, and I really like Sweden for ground RB. The issue for every map in GRB is spawns can be shot into, are too open or too cqb, or too big/small. Gaijin has a balance issue in how they make maps and design BRs for vehicles.
3. not everyone is going to put 21k hours into this game to do what you did. (Look up the actual times it takes to compete multiple tech trees with no prem account or vehicles, it's in YEARS, at 5k hours with premium, though I was going for fun after getting 5.7, I have only managed to get 11.7 in German and Russia air and ground. 5k hours to rank 7 two nations.)
I disagree about gameplay, it is actually fun if you know how to play and the progression comes with that but I completely agree with maps and another problem is BR compression because my ww2 cruiser can face a CW costal vessel
The biggest issue is that if you have realistic penetration of armor and push the ranges inside of 10km then even the thickest armor becomes irrelevant. Immunity zones, a key concept in battleship design, were all more in the 15-30km ranges. Once inside that pretty much all battleships could penetrate all other battleships.
The videos of Warthunder Naval, including this one, are also so ridiculously choked with islands than no naval battle would ever be fought there. They make WoWS maps look like open ocean.
if you think this is bad WHAT DO YOU THINK WAR THUNDER TANKS PLAYS LIKE
This is what I was thinking. The physics of WT Boats is actually really good, but the way they have the game and maps set up you're doing combat at what amounts to melee range for battleships. If you want to have big ships in this you need more open water or coastal maps to where battleship-grade artillery starts making sense.
Right, and the simple solution to the problem of shooting at pixels at that range is to...simply increase the zoom on the optics. Problem solved.
thats completely untrue , the further you go out the more vulnerable that battleships are to plunging fire. With cruisers even i can penetrate most battleships at long range due to the shells coming down at a near verticle angle.
the most protective a battleship can be is if you angle slightly (yes you might only be able to fire 3 or 2 of your 4 turrets if you do this) and are at close range. By doing this you are almost invulnerable unless you are playing something like a Alaska which is not a battleship its is a Battle Cruiser... a cruiser it has less armor and is much more vulnerable. Almost every ship if you angle you increase its ability to resist damage.
@@CrowDawg11 a little bit more to it than that.. you have to be competent in determining what the drop in shells is. At 20km i usually have to add or subtract .5 to .75km and then i have a iffy chance of hitting them every time. Once you find that sweet spot yes i can pound them till they change either their speed or heading and then it starts all over. Past 20km it becomes a definate skill to hit someone.
The fact that you can die a minute into the match on most maps doesn’t help
but flying for 2 minutes before you reach any otehr plane or bomb target is better? And since last month or so, every plane seems to be made of highly flamable paper.
Thanks to idiots who wanted extra fragments in HE is what drove EVERYONE away from naval and you know it
@@Raussl the flying one at least gave you a chance to get SLs & XP for doing something. The gameplay still leaves a lot to be desired. Land and Sea Battles require you to kill another player to make any progress. And like anything WT, the repair costs are horridly stacked as tiers increase. The "tiers" are ridiculous
That’s my issue with any mode in warthunder, especially tank-side
you have 30 seconds or more of protection and you are 15km away on most maps 8km away on a few (at sea spawns) the close maps always have a island spawn location where you can spawn in behind cover.
Now if they are in your spawn area? then the match has gone on at least 20 minutes and you have lost the match already the score is just waiting to be ticked down.
If you are referring to coastal again you have spawn protection AND the ability to fire at them during this time and kill them while you are invulnerable.
I believe the issue lies in the fact that gaijin refuses to add more diverse and interesting game-modes along side the heavy grind
you don't say
@@krumuvecis it was just a comment on the video… get the f out
@@krumuvecisong get yo stupid ass out
@@kingofchris yes, i fully agree to the obvious, i'm out already
there is already to many game modes arcade realistic simulator
WT Naval has always had an issue with progression, game modes, damage models and matchmaking.
Naval tech trees are the worst imaginable, even after trashing half the boats into a coastal tree, the progression goes from quick to slow VERY quickly, and ontop of this, the powercreep within BRs practically makes a lot of ships near unusable. For example, DDs at 4.7-5.0 are always living in the shadow of high DPM monsters like Somers/Gearing/Sumner, there is absolutely nothing you can hope to do against a competent player in those ships if playing something from another nation (add in the fact that some DDs don't even get SAP shells because hurr durr realism). This though, imo is not the worst, as probably the worst grind has to be 6.0 CLs/CAs, which have to fight BBs most of the time. Even against a WW1 BC, they cannot do much to even get out of the battle with respectable rewards (adds in to the horrific grind).
Game modes have to be the most uninspired and boring thing ever. You get domination? one boat can end the game. ONE BOAT. Circle of death? endless slog fest between BBs, everyone else is just fodder. Encounter (transport ships) is probably the only half okayish one. In any case, there is no point to playing these game modes as they are just kinda similar to what you get in ground and air forces, but a million times worse and unbalanced between class interactions. A much better alternative is to play Enduring Confrontation, and that mode works extremely well for naval, which would be awesome if gaijin implemented a smaller scale version for random matches, but this is gaijin. Lets not even talk about the maps. BBs shooting straight from spawn while no one else can get into a semblance of a competent position? yeah typical naval.
Really, a lot of what makes naval unplayable is just the questionable designs when it comes to adding BBs. BBs trivialise any reason to play a DD or a cruiser, which ironically does not make any sense in a historical overview (ALL ship classes had their roles to play, and this is best illustrated in WoWS.) The reason why a cruiser can fight a BB in WoWS is because fires actually mean something, and positioning is SUPER important. WT takes all the tactical elements of naval warfare and throws it into the bin. As long as you have the biggest gun or the best armour, you will always win. Surprise surprise, people don't find it fun to always shoot fish in a barrel, or be the fish shot at.
I hate domination mode so much, it's so ill-suited for the slower pace of naval mode
Even when there are no boats to deal with, it is painful to capture objectives even with fast ships
I think it would be more pleasant if the most common gamemode is a simple deathmatch where you just have to destroy enemy ships, no points to capture
Ironically enough, when i last played actively, the most common mode i felt was circle of death/conquest, atleast for top tier. That is very similar to what you're describing because in order to even cap you have to kill everyone anyways. It's not like the one you get in tanks with a kill requirement, but probs because naval isnt popular and certain BBs (SCHARN) can technically never die
@@afjsns Oof, never knew the Scharnhorst is overpowered
Currently I'm at BR 5.7 in the Japanese naval tree, sometimes its fun, but on many occasions it was pure pain, especially when operating the light cruisers Isuzu, Kuma, and Sendai as they were just borderline useless against even destroyer-class ships
The IJN Agano and Furutaka has made things more pleasant, but I still crumble against other cruisers, I'm unsure if the ships themselves are rather weak or just that I have a severe case of skill issue
The Shimakaze, although weak in main armament, certainly makes up for it in its lethal, long-ranged torpedoes which I had numerous satisfying moments of sinking any ship that ever gets hit by them
I have used it for my progression for a good while and it remains in my lineup as of now maybe until I unlock the IJN Aoba
@@roomyhaddock3245 my condolences that you have to go through the IJN tree lmfao
The whole tree kinda sucks until certain stuff like Akizuki/JMSDF DDs, Kako and then all the way till Mogami/Suzuya to actually feel useful again. The torps are funny, but unfortunately not always consistent. After how many ever years, we finally get a Myoukou class in the tech tree (Haguro) at 5.7 (hopefully kt doesn't change) so that should make the grind a lot better. Furutaka and Aoba are not that bad, but they are not 5.7 material
@@afjsns Your information brought in a positive light that will make me continue my progress towards obtaining battleships such as the IJN Fusou
turns out real naval combat is actually boring ...
We love to shit on WG for making Ships arcadey, but it would be a complete madness if it were an actual sim.
No, it was just just never as “instant” as WoWs.
This is actually funny
No world of warships is so much funner than this I swear watching paint dry is less boring than this
Especially when its r e a l i s t i c
Okay, this is my story. I saw an IJN Myoko in battlepass store and I was like "wow 600% silver", so I grinded bp store levels, did all the shitty special missions (which force you to not focus on win and teamplay, but focus on weird stuff like focusing attack planes or killing somebody with unguided rockets), and after like 2 months or something I got the ship. I played like 3 battles, and my god, WT navy is sooo heckin boring. And on top of that, I was so tired of everyday grind, so I`ve never played WT since that day.
Sounds similar to my experience. I spend a fair amount of time playing, but the grind in WT is ridiculous.
Hmm, I think the hardest special mission is 15 wins, attacker plane easy 10br, everyone uses su 25 or a10, unguided rockets, su25 or alpha jet, the most infuriating challenge is 30km above kill, only stabilized autocanons can reliably do them
Yep I agree. The challenges and junk for grinding BP killed my enthusiasm. I can't justify giving the snail cash at this point, and have zero motivation to unlock any vehicles(just another vehicle to get gaijin'd in and uptiered so whats the point?)
This was like when I grinded the EBR 1954 back when it was disgustingly OP. Except by the time I got it, I was so burned out by WT I never even played the EBR and quit the game entirely shortly after!
skill issue
As someone who plays naval in War Thunder.
I've played since the beggining with the CBT of naval and such.
Greed and slow grind does certainly turn off a lot of people. And like in WoWs people might want to use battleships right away because Big gun go brrrr
But then seeing War Thunder and having to grind from DDs in a slow grind for just one battleship that are the early ones and then queueing agaisnt top tier ships with modern shells and get one shoted so yeah...
In WoWs you can quicly grind your tier 3 battleship and more or less feel like a battleship
But now. Naval Realistic Battles is the grind mode. Flooded with bots and player botting. However in the weekends we get the naval enduring confrontation. Which are 3 hours missions with a more larget map which is more focused on a more realistic scene and approach and ussually is full of players. And botting doesnt work there. So all you see there are fully aware players and also with a more bigger lobby, having some side objectives as well which is my preffered gamemode
Honestly if Naval EC Realism was the standard boats mode it would be one of the better ones
CBT huh....
WAS flooded with bots. They changed it so you cant do that and it made it much better. Now if you are saying half the team is Gaijin bots they can actually be better than some players at times because most people are shit at the game. When the que is slow there are Gaijin bots that fill the match up so its not just 6v6 and is a full 15v15. Being this post is only 2 weeks old either you havent played in a long time or you are being dishonest
@@bear76009 why do you defend this mode so hard? It's literally bloatware in the WT download.
@@Hart501 Funny they did the same thing to Sim EC (planes)
The devs don't play the game, they don't understand the community and are only focused on their bottom line
the biggest problem with warthunder overall is the maps. tha game started perfectly with the maps being this big and you had your time to actually traverse it to reach targets, couple of years later the spawns were so dense and it turned into an instant arcade match with everyone stacked on top of each other, you cant have a dogfight with someone without 5 other people cheasing you and each other, same goes for tanks and everything else. played the game for two years and then jsut left and never came back
warthunder was always a plane game. which was 10/10. tanks turned out good so now WoT finally has competition
Plane suck, tank is ok, naval low tier is peak
I'd give it 8/10 at best
Inconsistent flight models, garbage damage models, and the servers are so unstable it's a meme.
world of tanks has competition LOOOOL world of tanks barely has anyone playing it compared to wt
@@vashbain3136 And how many of those warthunder players have never played tanks?
Tanks WERE good.
As someone with a lot of time in WoWS, I jumped into Naval when the big botes were added and even after finishing the tutorial I had no idea what was going on, the game systems just dumbfounded me.
I then realized I was setting myself up for another grind up a tech tree so I dropped it.
back in my day, the premium pack for the PT-109 (which is like 2.0 now) was ~45 dollars, or the cost of a tier 8 premium in WOWS, lmao.
(yes, I made the mistake of buying it back then)
Lemme guess, JFK fans?
It's still alive on the EU server. WT is 99% about planes and tanks, naval is just a tiny byproduct. When I play "WT naval" with my friends it's purely for the memes in custom battles. We have hilarious races with coastal boats (up to 64 players), some players are in helis acting as race commentators... or we just meet up, the more the merrier, in a custom battle for a virtual island bbq and take out whatever floating devices WT has to offer... chilling, having drinks and talking nonsense for a couple of hours.
Yeah that just sounds like I'd rather hang out with my friends than sitting inside almost anything else looks more fun even doing taxes
When the only viable option to play the game mode is to just goof around...
Gaijin: "Nah, it is fine! Working as intended!" 😂
Hahahahaha commentators in helicopters that's hilarious!! 😂
Great points. I never played WT naval so the following is speculation. Aiming naval artillery is perhaps a lot more like a real time strategy (due to the plotting, predicting, calculating process) rather than first person shooter. Although bringing down engagement range makes aiming easier, it also makes a lot of ships armor irrelevant. Sub 10 km is like point blank range or battleship calibre guns.
In World of Warships (which I do play) however not only shells travel almost twice as fast compared to their actual speed, but the ship models are vastly exaggerated as well. Perhaps that’s the magic formula WG found to make both aiming accessible and armor workable
Alos ships travel 10 times as fast as in reality...
@@stefanurich8562 not so much it's the ships traveling faster but the maps are just shrunk.
Yeah WoWs found the formula to satisfy the casuals. WT Naval is meant for more serious people who enjoy the slower pace. Really wish they’d lean even more in that direction instead of copying and trying to compete directly with WoWs.
@@angelapolinar5343and the objects in the maps are tiny. I can’t remember what map it is but there’s a town and I steamed my destroyer next to it and I was like Godzilla next to it!
@@stefanurich8562 no they dont , in arcade they travel about 120% true speed and in realistic they travel 100%
both of these are modified by crew level to bump them up i think its 5-7% so 107%-127% depending on mode.
Its not dead yet but def on life support.
I played today and it was 4 players including myself and the rest were AI
The life support has already been turned off pal, and it deserves to be, I was playing as Leipzig and got put up against the fucking Nassau. If the game can’t even make the matches or teams balanced than it simply deserves to be dead, Gaijin is just controlled by greed & propaganda and nothing else.
one good thing naval has is extreme sl reward a premium low tier ship depending on the ship can make about 1800% rp bonus compared to most premium jets with 900% so only for that its worth it
@@SMarie-zk9ojagree
Haven't had a problem enjoying it. Oh well
Well, let's be honest - World of Warplanes failed for the same reason War Thunder Naval Battles failed: It's difficult to establish yourself when you're competing against a well-established game while only having a half-assed concept. World of Warplanes could never win against OG War Thunder, and WT Naval could never win against World of Warships.
Just got into naval, having a blast. EC on the weekends is great. Definitely could use more players, but it's not bad at all. The argument that crew = HP is disingenous to say the least. BR Compression and cold war coastals/destroyers need work.
Nah, warthunder naval low tier gotta be some of the best gameplay warthunder has to offer. Way better than the nerd and geeks in plane mode
actual skill issue
Nothing like putting around in at 6km/h in a wooden yacht from the turn of the century to get BRRRRT by a cold war Soviet 50mm autocannon laden speed boat ripping around at 40km/h
@@n1ght1ngal3ong if bro thinks climbing is complicated hes cooked
@@Azerkeuxnothing like feeling invincible in a huge ship, only to suddenly spot a tiny reserve level torpedo boat charging at you from some island.
Horror games can’t mirror the adrenaline and sheer panic
idk my old 1940s Japanese sub chaser wreck almost anything its face easily.
Situation is quite different in EU server
It's so funny that on one hand, you have people complaining that WOWS is too arcade-y, that CVs printing airplanes isn't realistic, that DDs firing underwater rockets isn't realistic, that Subs going faster while submerged isn't realistic. And then there's this title, far more realistic... and people still complain.
Really... can't please anyone these days, can you?
Especially when they try and compare WoWs against WT Realistic, a much better comparison would be with WT Naval Arcade.
*TLDR:*
Basically, I can break it down like this:
If you like historical naval combat and ships. Literally want to read a book or listen to a podcast while playing. Play Snail Thunder.
If you like seizure-like explosions and pretty colors and/or have a substance abuse problem. Play Warships.
*Now that's out the way...*
I quit World of Warships and exclusively now only play naval on Warthunder.
It was a thousand little things over time that finally pissed me off with Wows.
I work a lot and spend time on the road, so even with money, I have missed several Fomo styled ops as Im not at home to play. That I see then that the content is buried under casino currency loot boxes.
This and as a naval history enthusiast , not animating certain features on historical ships. Whose game model has been in the game for years, smacks of lack of caring and innauthencity towards the whole " historical " moniker listed in Wows ads. At least they used too.
(Also, Mount Batten the ships being closer together now has divided the community as ships like Sharnhorst are now spawning at point blank range, which equates to seal clubbing.
I personally dislike the top tier close in spawns as it turns into spawn camping in broken ships like the Sharnhorst.
Also no. One shoting is not as easy as you make it seem. Damage sponging is very much a thing in naval.)
100% agreed.
insane how they use the same maps that PT boats zoom around on for top tier combat where everyone is in a giant battleship
in air and ground battles, the higher BR you go, you get different maps that are larger
Realism was cool when it comes to this mode, but with few ships, and As an F2P player it takes alot of time for me to grind. This just feels so repetitive
5.0 is a good place to call quits , Ive got several BBs ingame and honestly wish they got rid of them and rolled back to pre-gunnery update
kalen has no idea what he is saying... i have all ships in all nations except for a few and some coastals and i am working on those.
Yes it is grindy as a F2P player but its supposed to be that way as it encourages you to support the game (everything costs something) and you pay to progess not pay to win. You simply get the higher tier ships faster.
Now i can agree with him that 5.0 ships are pretty much the funnest unless you get good. Then 7.0 is just as fun as anything else although Coastal at 4.3 or less is fucking wild too
and OH GOD is it slow
also sometimes an entire match can end in arcade without anyone dying
@@dinamosflams eh? I'll take something that never happened for 500$ Alex..
Since beta i have never not once seen nobody die.
@@bear76009 that are a lot of negatives for a sentence when some people use double negatives as a negative
The biggest issue to me is that I feel like I can’t do shit against half the enemies in my own boat. Bigger is always better, and most maps are too small to safely reposition somewhere else and fight your own size.
Bombers just oneshotting anything is incredibly frustrating.
Lowtier is ruined by the combination of frigates from the 70s vs destroyers from the 30s. There isn’t really a good way to fight big ships with torpedo boats where you don’t just get wrecked by some coastal ship 3 tiers higher.
Mountbatten as a wt naval player you should search with all servers on! (check the mode selection menu) Lag is minimal so it doesn't matter!
Also try the Enduring confrontation mode on weekends (from Thursday to Monday morning), it's the best way to enjoy wt Naval!
He’s just actively trying to bash on WT naval at this point.
btw , its not dead at all. Top tier takes you a bit to find a match (3-5 minutes at max) while lower level is much faster 30sec to 2 min or so. There are many hundreds of players playing constantly. Just because the matches last longer than most ground ones due to the mechanics of it we are all tied up in matches so it looks like there isnt as many.
3.3 is so fun in naval and ive been enjoying this mode after not playing for years
My biggest issue with that mode when I played it: played destroyer and tried to shot others, aiming and I shot, the shells fly up and out of my sight and cant see where the fuck they land, and by the time they land I have shot 3-4 salvos more and no idea where any of them are going, with smallest zoom they still fly up and out of my vision so cant follow the shell and tell if I aim too low, too high, too far right or left...... Have to get within 2-3 km to be able to hit anything and before I can get that close I get killed.
So its useless to even try it.
War thunder is kind of backwards more people can be found at lower mid tiers because grinding is really hard
War Thunder is like that because the lower-mid tiers are more fun. Why bother with driving a T-72 against ATGMs and helicopters, when you can have a perfectly fun ground slog with a T-34?
@@SeanMirrsen Lower-mid tier are more fun because there are more unexperienced players that can be seal clubbed.
@@1nv15BL3 Well it surly looks that way, reason why peoples getting back to mid, mid to low, low tier in general is, 'cause half of the players are inexperienced players that still learn the game and don't even have their tanks upgraded alongside crew, where in top tier you fight peoples that have easily above 500h in game, have maxed vehicles with maxed crews that stomp newcomers, but I must agree that in mid and below tier you don't encounter bullshit like ATGMs, Helis, guided missiles/bombs that can kill you without seeing plane, drones that gives away your position or tanks with LRF that can snipe you whenever they want, cause they noticed pixel of you
50% of my lobbies at top tier are noobs with hundreds of battles in 10.3 premiums that grinded their way up to 11.7
The high cost of the ships was one reason why I didn’t invest more in the game. Another reason was many times when firing the shells at the enemy ship, I could hardly even make out the shells themselves seem like I was I was always firing into a glare and the shells are white so it’s like I just didn’t see where my shells were going and where they were landing at the time I found that very frustrating!! The details on the ships are extraordinary.
If you hold your mouse button in, it will let you follow the shell until it hits water, or the enemy
The different shell types are colour coded between HE and SAP/AP also there's the option to turn on the fall of shot indicators which greatly help seeing where they land.
I kinda enjoy naval, but got to 6.0 and constantly being put against Imperator Nikolai BBs I put over a thousand 6 inch shells into one, and did nothing, that’s what stops the grind. You have to go through a cruiser line against BBs where you are totally ineffective
let me introduce you to a thing called TORPEDOS.. and there is nothing forcing you to shoot 6in at BBs when there are plenty of DDs and cruisers to shoot at. You choose to do these things.
I take pt boats and DDs andkill BBs all the time with torpedos, i also do it with BBs and sometimes heavy cruisers. But unless i intend to shoot one hundreds of times (usually 9-12 shells per shot) or Shoot HE to support OTHER people who can kill the BB i just dont shoot BBs .
I often enjoy the Naval Enduring Confrontation mode that becomes available on the weekend, but the fact is that you need a lineup for that mode to be effective (you start with 4.7-5.0 ships and earn SP to get bigger ships), and for every part that I like, theres either a bug/feature that ruins it half the time or a gigantic missed opportunity that could make it so much better
completely agree , the one issue most people complain about EC is that they are in a DD and someone else is in a BC.
we all start at the same 4.7-5.0 and everyone can gain points and go up to 7.0.
everyone starts equal.. BUT due to skill and luck some progress faster than others and thats when the whining starts.
Its not my fault i was able to get 600 pts (about 5 kills) before you and spawn in a battleship. Its not my fault you choose to not bring a battleship. AND its not the fault of the game either in both circumstances.
It suffered from a bad release. If it had the ships it now has, it would have got a bigger player base. Gaijin's initial insistence on only have boats and small ships was a marketing disaster. Everyone was looking for battleships.
I can tell you for certain that's why I ignored it for so long. I only care about battleships. I'm not playing the ship mode to screw around in patrol boats.
Naval EC is actually fun this strategic aspect makes it unique
There should be a first person camera, where you stand on the bridge or one of the lookouts.
With the other vehicle types being so in depth and up to date nobody wants to grind a tree that ends in WWII era vehicles.
realism is a very niche genre with games. many i talked to when i use to play said it was always far to easy to one shot or be one shot unless they played hyper conservative. it is not enjoyable being 1 shot so easily
Eu server is alive...so, i guess its too difficult/complicated for US players? 🤭🤣 (Joke)
We are too busy leaking Classified Military documents. Seems like that is the thing WT is known for now, LEAKING CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS TO WIN INTERNET ARGUMENTS.
@@whattheflyingduck6878that is a rather bold statement 🤓
@whattheflyingduck6878 I'm a U.S. player, and I quit Wows.
I play naval now. Different strokes I guess.
Meanwhile the majority of the US player base want BR decompression and maps not designed to funnel you into the enemy spawn for Ground RB..... But we're told we can't have either of those things because it would increase queue times and the length of games, and the European player base is apparently too impatient for that 🤔
Gotta have instant queue and fast games to keep people engaged apparently
i played Naval in the early days, back when the biggest thing on the seas was a CL. the battles were actually quite fun. hell in the very low tiers with everyone zipping around in PT boats and the odd gunboat with torps flying every witch way was chaotic bliss. of course when you got up tiered and ended in a PT vs a CL or Destroyer (remember that many Destroyers started as anti-PT ships carrying Torps so they can still punch bigger ships in the guts) it could really suck , but oh the joy when you managed to get in and unload 4 torps into the guts of Destroyer or even the odd CL and still manage to get away. now that is glory my friend.
not sure how WT is doing these days. i play on console so the air battles i could never get right. ground battle was fun as long as you were in the lower tiers. trouble was since WT is cross platform (something i actually approve of in principle) PC players could do things like turning off certain kinds of foliage and such to give themselves a Cheat lvl advantage in realistic battles. its one of the reason i just stuck to arcade.
Never played WT but what they did really well was give the impression of the scale of these things. In WOWS even the biggest ships take up the same screen real estate as the smallest submarine. I don’t get the sense of ‘Castles of Steel’ at all.
How do you make your gun range on target???pls someone explain my guns are a kilometers off the target when I aim at the ship my shells fall short😢
?? theres a range finder
@@bakunawa6134 ?
isnt the rangefinder constantly updates the range when you target something in naval
You can also check it on controls if you havent binded the keys for it
Remember back then Naval give you so many SL and SP. It's viable to used it to farm SL. Now it's just a hust. It's not even worth playing naval unless you got bored.
Biggest Problem.
The endless grind...
If you unlock a new vehicle in WT you will suffers for quite a while until you actually have something fun to play. Everything takes ages to unlock
I think the problem is that capital ships should be limited to 2 per side. this way teams will be forced to create a circle of protection for their capital ships with destroyer and cruiser screens. This will better simulate actual WWII combat.
Naval Enduring Confrontation was supposed to solve many of the problems in naval. But the fact that someone can spawn the most OP ship in game is a massive downside. A dude spawned a Kronshdat and basically just seal clubbed his way to victory. Our team lost many tickets and SP to the poiny where only destroyers could be spawned, which in turned were easily killed by high tier BCs & BBs
There's many reasons why naval isn't popular, and one of the largest ones has to do with how Gaijin treats the mode.
A few months ago when they were rolling out a new patch, they did a major shell and damage model rework which was so buggy on release, it practically broke the entirety of naval. This was done at the start of an exclusive naval event, and players who wanted to get the reward ship were forced to endure these bugs for a few weeks until it was gradually fixed.
This is one of many instances where Gaijin tries to rework something that already works fine in naval and ends up making it buggier than before instead of implementing much needed changes such as a more fair distribution of damage credited between a kill and a kill assist.
Naval does have a lot of potential, and having a more complex damage and shell model is certainly appealing to some. But unless Gaijin realizes that players aren't paying attention to naval because of their apparent lack of interest in improving naval on their part, it isn't going to better or more popular anytime soon.
I dunno man, Naval is about the only WT mode I even play. Ground and Air make me rage but Naval is actually fun to me.
Never understood why there is never differential spawn points for different ship classes farther away from each other (disregarding pt boats) you could even earn more SP to spawn the next one along for a large cost
this is the way it works?"
Its very unfortunate, because the ships themselves are really well made, the gamemode is just not good.
Depends which game mode you prefer, arcade is probably better suited to those who like WoWs.
All they need to do is:
1. Fix the maps. Ships are way too close and there's nothing to protect spawnkill.
2. Fix Progression. The grind is terrible.
3. Add Carriers and Submarines. There's nothing to counter high-tier battleships, anything below and you won't survive. Battleships and Heavy Cruisers --> Destroyers and Light Cruisers --> Submarines and Carriers--> Battleships, Heavy Cruisers, and Carriers
4. Change the game modes. I agree that the matches can be really boring. Enduring confrontation has so much potential. They could also add ground targets for naval for these naval battles. Imagine being a part of the shore bombardment of Iwo Jima and taking out pillboxes for the landing forces. Add something like a health bar for the troops on the island. Send a few rounds their way to weaken them so your allied forces can push further forward. You could also be tasked to protect the transport ships and watch the landing craft go to the island and back.
Naval combat isn't always about mass fleets fighting each other.
But at the same time, there in-game formula for control mechanics for shooting is terrible.
When you reach top tier it actually can be interesting. On weekends there is naval confrontation mode which (if you have top ships researched) is the most realistic and simultaneously interesting experience you can have with the ships. Battleships are fighting each other at proper ranges of 20-30 km, torpedo boats are being used to sneak up and sink big ships that are heading to the obj, spotting planes are being used to do recon (actually).
The grind is what killed WT naval. If reaching top tier would not require you to grind through extremely overinfalted research requirements, more people actually would play it.
The big difference between WoW and WT ships is that the game mode is much more diverse in WOW.
In WT you basically have the biggest ship with most armor and biggest guns, wins... unless bombed by airplane with big bombs.
WT needs to introduce more aspect. I even think there should be a multi launch type thing were you plan your battleship route. While you spawn a few speed boats and a sub or plan and are able to jump between them all in order to be where the action is when needed. You dive the sub and give it a few wp and a standard, return fire only, or similar and make the game mode more about running a fleet of ships rather than just a single one. Have aircraft carriers that can launch waves of aircrafts what any player can jump into etc etc. Have "interceptor" spawn points that might open later or multi cap zones that open spawn closer and so on. So that towards the end of the match you might have a few battle ship up close. While also making the battle a bit more cinematic. Lets say you have "top layer" destruction, that creates a given tell tale signs (multi) on an enemy ship and only after that you can ammo rack, but at the same time at that point it is easier to ammo rack. While also the player of the damaged ship is told so via "red alert" or something.
More dynamic modes, more action based kills without ruining the naval realistic feel and less down time on the player side.
That said, even if all the tech is there, I mean you can jump between airplane or drones in the game, I dont think WT has the brains to actually make good game modes in its current form. If most of the people employed are modelers and tech implementers you probably dont have many or any focusing on the core gameplay. Do they even play their game when all their modes are mostly just front to front attack.
I mean, you cant even spawn in bomber formations. You cant spawn escorts or anti escort. No anti air space dive spawn camping tactics or spawns in air mode and so on. Everything is just spawn, go, fire, kill or die. Maybe rest in a capzone once in a while. I would argue that indirectly, because of combined arms, ground warfare is more popular than both naval and air today because they accidentally created interesting ways to win in such modes. Specially with the subscription removing the silver grind (can not lose more than 0 silver) and people playing to win.
I get games quickly and have been having a lot of fun at 4.3 and 5.3. It's no secret naval is the least played mode though. The grind to 7.0 is quite long so it's not surprising there are few players.
I always try to connect on weekends to the EC event, sometimes I spend hours looking for games, there are always enough people for a game in the normal modes.
I guess they are going to add something to make people come back to this game mode (maybe subs).
every now and then i have to wait 30 minutes for an EC lately. However once you get into one when the match ends its almost instantly that you can get into another due to a large number of people.
Ec is my favorite mode i play 5 or more matches a day thursday-sunday
It could be fun if they added modern ships like "Cold Waters dot mod". Ive been waiting for sea power combat in the missile age to come out lol
I don’t mind naval, after learning, it’s easy to top the board and bring home hella silver.
How much silver lions on average?
@@thegenerictanker6953 I average between 100k-200k and once I reached 1mil with boosters that I can remember. I was using American battleships Mississippi and Arkansas. Those are some ships I bought tho, but they are my money makers so for me they were really worth it
Bandaid suggestions:
The spawning system needs to be changdd. you should be able to bring out more ships than 3 with respawn points like in tank RB, instead of JUST aircraft,
Also there should be more spawn options to not get spawn camped, AND smaller vessels should be able to opt into spawning into deeper water spawns incase of spawn camping, so people can get to the caps faster if they choose a faster ship.
Naval is more popular then ever. It is faster to find battles then it's ever been, even in Australian prime time.
I got to CAs and kinda quit after that, match wait times got astronomical and getting slugged at by one to three Eugens every match was no fun, even less so once I run out of big ships and gotta use the destroyers.
The fact that World War One battleships have to deal with modern anti- ship missiles certainly doesn’t help either, at least not me.
Bro, I remember shooting at warships with KW2 in Ground battles :D
I got Prinz Eugen as my first premium and it is a good ship but gets nuked by battleships a few BRs highers. Than I got the Yamashiro at a sale and I literally print SL. And that is the only reason to play naval. Printing SL and farming bots
The Eugen is basically a Yamato to all 5.0s though, I don't think anything can even pen it below 5.7.
I wonder if lower tiers have more players in them. I imagine it takes quite a lot of time to get into that tier with all the good stuff.
Naval was fun when it first came out when it was just small boats, which was the original vision the devs had.
Some things that either hurt or ruined the mode: 1. Power creep in terms of vehicle types i.e. destroyers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers and battleships etc. 2. Power Creep in terms of premium ships. 3. Splitting the tech trees into blue water and coastal. 4. The grind.
There isn't much in terms of ships i feel.
But also, coastal and deep sea are split when they really shouldn't. On every map there are spawns for both!
I miss the earlier days before the coastal split cause i loved playing American bigger ships like the small sub chaser and riverboat
they are still there , just run a 4.3 or less lineup its very very fun.
I just picked up the game a few weeks ago. I have always been fascinated with naval combat and the ships since I was a child. So I I set a goal to unlock the USS Texas and for three long weeks I chipped away at it, finally got there and it is trash. The amount of times I just get one shot is insane. And so I quit playing the game all together
naval main here most match i found were at BR 5.0 which is just bunch of good destroyer and early light cruiser and imo is the most fun BR. to play right now + good SL
income too
I haven't played naval in like 2 years but I remember the aiming system being horrible and it wasn't intuitive at all. With air and ground the crosshair/reticle doesn't clutter the screen and is easy to use. You still have to compensate for bullet drop and things like that but with most zoom levels on the scope/gun camera you can easily see where your rounds are going and can adjust accordingly. I hate that you have to use the scroll wheel in naval to aim which was binded really weirdly I remember. Often when I was firing it felt like I was just button mashing and completely winging it. I didn't feel like I was in control of my own ship.
Also I hate how the tech trees are organised for naval like it would've felt so much more neat and organised if it was done in the same way as air and ground by having each research line organised by type of vessel, plus also being able to have multiple types of vessel at the same BR. I know this creates obvious balancing problems like with having small PT boats up against battleships, but it really breaks the immersion when you have different ships from completely different eras in history fighting each other, or ahistorical nation matchups (which is also a problem in the other modes for sure, although I've kinda gotten used to it in air and ground). I think the problem of balancing different classes of vessel could just be solved by Gaijin being a bit more creative with their gamemodes.
Also DO NOT get me started on the ships Gaijin has chosen to add so far and the ones they haven't. They do this in both air and ground as well but in naval it just seems so immensely haphazard and illogical.
Back when I was playing grinding naval used to take ages. Given that you had to wait a good few minutes to even get into a match? No chance I'd expect anybody playing high tier unless with premiums. Realistic ground can be frustrating if your gun or breech gets destroyed, or if you get cheeky one shot. Realistic naval makes all that suffering last for way longer, which made me quit after a game or two so many times. I happened to be a British main, and their ships left a lot to desire. I played more realistic naval games than probably over half the player base. And I only managed to spade two if not three ships at best.
This game mode drags for way too long, which makes cheeky ways to die even more frustrating, and the grind is unbelievably long. The aiming system is unreliable and very rarely you know exactly where your shots will land, and that goes for coastals mostly, but can be a case in blue water ships too. The AA system often kills the enemy pilot, but only after they managed to drop a bomb, which is a lose scenario for both players involved. Some of the ships are visibly lacking when compared to others.
I really wanted for this game mode to succeed, but the aforementioned reasons made this game mode a gimmick, rather than something I can play in the long term. And the lack of interest from the player base makes it unlikely that the developer will introduce major changes to fix it on a regular basis.
So I've only been trashing bots in the naval combat?
No , up till a few major updates ago there was a way to have your ship fire with it's crew doing it vs a player. The changes that made and the huge list of bans for doing it have completely stopped that.
Now depending on the time of day the names at the bottom of the list may be gaijin bots. Personally I don't mind it as the matches have a minimum of about 8 players per side and bots finishing the slots.
What I also have noticed is that the bots will actually cap things now instead of sailing around at random and shooting at you.
@@bear76009 The way to have it do it with the "crew vs the player" is because they were bots, just not official gaijin ones. There were entire clans of bots ran by 1 player.
@@Jazzyo7 right i know this I was explaining to him that I'm the past yes there were human "bots" vs gaijin bots.
I love the realistic nature of war thunder for ships even started playing when I learned about it but I agree I think there is something wrong with it and idk I either get killed fast or have fun but idk I think maybe slow progress to larger ships and to few ships maybe
thank you for this review
as someone who got halfway down the American naval tree during covid,
WTN was way better when they first added destroyers. for me the indicators ruined naval. the enduring confrontation mode that they added for naval did save it for me a little bit but not enough for me to get back into naval
It died because they refused to release cruisers and battleships for so long for some reason. Nobody wanted to just play patrol boats and destroyers
They always said the big navy was boring. The scales, the ranges, either it's too far and too slow to be fun, or too chaotic and unbalanced to be fun. Which is sort of exactly what we see.
@@SeanMirrsen If its boring you are making poor choices. You either spawned in at the wrong location. Or you are trying to screw in a nail with a hammer.
Turns out when the first battleships came out and I said they should be 7.7 minimum because who wants to play a game where your enemy is literally invulnerable from your attacks while he can 1 shot you? And then now they still haven’t changed it and turned out the only people left are the ones that whaled their way past.
I wish WoWS had the explosion graphics WT has. Other than that, it was slow to advance and EXPENSIVE to play! They charge for everything. And, there's no "break even" point that I found in playing for a year.
It used to be a lot better back in the day but then war thunder got popular and eventually Gaijin added all of the grind crap where they even said “When you unlock a new vehicle it’s a second hand one that you need to repair back to full operation”.
Then they demolished the economy.
And you only needed a premium aircraft to keep your account topped up for a few weeks. I remember never running out of money and still being able to unlock new stuff.
Naval just prints silver lions. It's the easiest way to generate income.
It’s really dumb how the tech tree is, Battleships and Battlecruisers are the top of the tech tree. Realistically there should be multiple tech tree lanes like there is for Ground and Air, and those should be Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships, Subs, and Carriers(although carriers might not work), and having it like this is absolutely annoying.
The BR compression at 6.0-7.0 is absolutely insane. At low tier Bluewater the difference between a 3.3 and 4.3 is like an extra turret and 100 extra crew. The difference between a 6.7 and a 7.0 is one has 40 second reload 12 inch guns and literally 3 AA guns, and the other has 25 second reload 16 inch guns and has enough armour and crew to survive anything thrown at it.
only one ship has a 16 in gun right now. Most at 7.0 are still 12-15 inch and the big ones have a 30 second reload. Plus there is a balance factor. The 16 in has almost no AA and can get smoked by planes easy. You have to place yourself near other ships and move with them to take advantage of their AA (just like in real life)
how to solve the issue - change naval completely.
Before i start yapping, I would like to say this is how I personally would love to see naval work, and people might not agree so yeah.
Leave arcade naval as it is for the people who want fast-paced naval combat.
For realistic, make much larger maps, enduring confrontation style maps. Those EC maps should be historical, IE midway, Denmark, British channel, etc. Make the matches longer & give a set of tasks to be completed, as well as an increase to the amount of respawns available. Now add flotillas. give every player a few AI destroyers and a light cruiser to order around (remember this is a huge map, so it won't be crowded), or if in a destroyer, maybe just 1 other destroyer alongside. Make players think like naval combat, not wet ground combat. naval has entire strategies in every encounter, why not give players a fleet.
Make the tasks realistic: have AI troop ships attempt to deploy landing craft to an area of a shore, give players the tasks of bombarding said shore and protecting those AIs. Maybe, *possibly* even add player controlled carriers (sort of like world of warships) with wings of aircraft to use, we already have AI squadrons in mission editor and CDK, it could work, player carriers might be too far fetched tho.
Make finding the enemy a priority, have your fleet's scout aircraft locate an enemy player and engage in fleet combat. (at this point im just openly writing out any ideas i have in my head, srry)
Of course not all of this should or could be implemented, maybe things i did not think of.
WT navy : "Realistic"
WoWs : "Harugumo 100mm machinegun go brrrr"
War thunder is basically 18 games slapped into one you got air ground naval all with 3 different modes arcade realistic simulator and expecting something to happen with such a divided player base and massive greed and grind of the evil snail is beyond insanity
So many fun possibilities for plane and naval entanglements. Each team gets an aircraft carrier and a few ships and first to sink the others carrier wins. Planes get unlimited, 10, and 5 respawns for AB,RB and sim modes.
I literally came up with this on the toilet smh
Actualy they could if they can only have more static or moving target like in ARB where you can chose to ground pound or go for other fighters imagine if they can add AI targets other than objectives of capturing points. change the mechanics of encounter. And add more objectives in domination like destory target A or B destroy installation or deatroy the enemy air field or hunt the enemy air craft carrier
Having only watched your videos, I never liked the 'hazy' appearance of the ships in the distance here, and the fact it is hard to tell where you are aiming and where your shells went.
That's only a feature in Realistic mode. A much better comparison would be to play in arcade which is the most similar to WOWs and also there's the option to turn on fall-of-shot indicators. The GUI also tells you how far over or short you were or if you straddled.
I play air SIM on WT and it is fun but the flightmodels are not correct for SIM. Getting sudden flatspins out of almost no input in a FW190, while 2 minutes ago you where in a hard turn dogfight is weird. They neglect the old FM's for new jets. I came to war thunder for the WW2 stuff
I mean the reason gaijin didn't want to add it was because they knew it would be boring
WT naval exists solely for Chinese players to grind out XP with purchased premiums
I don't think Gaijin will ever bring Naval back from its grave. Their development mindset of profit over gameplay won't let them. The nature of semi-realistic naval combat is not fun, combined with how bad the grind is across the game. Ground and Air are about as bad of a grind if not worse at later tiers, but it's tempered a bit because you're not lumbering along in a giant battleship staring through your periscope for a majority of the match.
Naval requires more modeling resources, but very few people play them.
I belive adding submarines and cold war era ships would make it more popular and possibly bring in new players as it would be offering something wows doest.
I can say that I still struggle with aiming and shooting in WT naval and when I looks scoreboard and I wonder what I do wrong compare to top players even I have shot multiple times and have some kills. Also map designs aren't the best one and some maps have maybe too much covers that people just play too stationary and spam fire from behind island. I also don't like progression on researching ships. Big battleships and cruisers fights are interesting, but those boats are the nightmare. Some ppl have those fast, deadly minigun boats that can insta kill you.
1:18 - all you've done so far is list ship types in ascending order, and then started naming ships. Dull.
Problem is that every single nation could be counted as it's own game. With every single tree could be a 15 hours chapter of said game.
There is simply too much to get, not enought time to unlock and enjoy, and too many "paywall". Ho, you want to get this ship? WELL YOU HAVE TO RESEARCH THREE MORE -AND- BUY THEM TOO!
Naval with blue-water-navy is a lost cause. The game engine just isn't suitable for a game mode like this.
Adding even bigger ships like Yamato will just increase the effect.
Zooming around in PTs and tearing each other up with autocannons can be fun, though.
I love WT ships battles only spawns are too close. plus I think you felt size of your ship better before when you had to exp thro boats.