Thermal Chamber for new High Power Arroyo TECSource
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
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00:00 Intro
00:47 Arroyo Overview
03:22 Arroyo Teardown
06:08 Chamber CAD
07:13 PCBWay Ordering
08:21 Chamber outsides
11:12 PCBWay Delivery
12:14 Chamber Assembly
15:30 Chamber testing - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Arroyo Instruments is the kind of company that needs to be protected and kept alive at all costs. Any company that champions the owner's right to repair their purchase is to have loudest praises sung of them. As far as I am concerned, continuing to provide component-level technical support for a long since discontinued product is a cornerstone of the ceaseless process of upholding the mandates of right-to-repair legislation.
I agree, this level of service is truly remarkable these days. - If I had the money, I’d buy a temperature controller from the, even though I don’t need one, just to support their efforts :-)
Yes, a dutch power supply manifacturer bu the name of Delta also does this, you can just find all documentation about 60+year old power supply's on their website.
Hmm, capitalism? You can't just have the "good" parts and ignore the bad parts at a level that's almost defying reality...
Oh wait, you are of course free to send Arroyo Instruments money. Nobody stops you from donating. Oh... you want that others donate and ... you just cash in the advantages?:P That is another possible solution, yes. It's called "bailout by the state." As with the banks. Of course I don't blame you, Scratch Pad. It was just a sarcastic and a bit cheeky comment:)
Of course, I absolutely agree with you that such companies with great products that also support the right to repair should continue to exist. Such companies are a shining example that expertise, good products, customer service and honesty are not mutually exclusive. It is just your "that needs to be protected and kept alive at all costs" that made me smile and also think. Your statement is somewhat "heroic" but on the other side ... naive?!:) WHO pays? And WHAT exactly should kept alive (also the uneconomical or exploitative factors that perhaps led to the company's demise in the first place?)? Well, that is not a simple topic, but I hope the best for the future:)
@@dieSpinntwell if a system which destroys companies which does well to its customers because it can't cope with other companies bothered of only draining the life blood of their customers, I say such a system needn't exist.
@@dieSpinnt why are you calling him naive when you completely missed the point? you are the one who will pay in the end if you continue doing buisness with companies that happily extort you. i hope you enjoy paying 2x for a new phone and car every other year.
also take the cap off your period key, you've got a habit of resting your hand on it.
at 21:18 i expected some "Demon Core" reference 😂
Exactly, I expected a flash when the screwdriver slipped
was looking for this comment, couldn't be me the only one that thought about that reference ahahah
@@bansci I even when "ahh" in my mind when it slipped.
I went to the comments section to say exactly this!
My new favorite line: "In the case you find yourself needing even more power, you can A: step back and think about your poor decisions that lead to this situation..."
That one made me laugh too. 😅
My 2 Pfennigs:
- Put a fan inside circulating the air.
- We used stone tiles for thermal mass and electric insulation in front of heating wires (we didn't cool).
- Never show this video to a scrap metal collector as he will break out in tears.
Good idea. I would design the fan to be passive, i.e. place the drive outside of the housing, which is shielding in principle. Any EMI from motors is poison for the tolerances of the measurement. Other circulation devices are also conceivable. Of course, this varies with the size of the thermal chamber. Neither is best and for such a small part this can be assured by better design for thermal properties. In addition, it was only a prototype for testing (see the blind spots caused by the screw connection).
So, now to something completely different, the important point: Our scrap metal collector. This morning I passed the warehouse. There were around 20 to 30 copper strips (wound as coils) with a weight of around 180 tons. Next to it were the usual 2,500 tons of aluminum bars (for planing and rolling) and a few hundred tons of nickel strip material (I'm talking about coils with a diameter of 2.5 m and more and a width of 30 to 90 cm). Do you think that's enough for a heart attack? So for the scrap collector... Hehe
Your videos always inspire us 👍👍 What a huge pleasure we are to be one part of your thermal chamber 😇🍻
Good grief that's some thicc copper! 🤯 Definitely making the most of the sponsorships! 😸
21:20 I like the demon core reference
I scavenged one of their mid-level models for temperature control (growing ice crystals) when I was a post-doc and it was great. Super easy to program and control via serial commands and variety of sensors supported.
For passivation you can do a simple dip in dichromate to protect copper parts from corrosion with almost no impact on electrical/thermal properties as the layer is so thin.
Side note to that: I barely know of things more carcinogenic than dichromates lol
@@whatevernamegoeshere3644 Yah, the bath is bad news but the resulting coating is safe and hard to beat.
@@whatevernamegoeshere3644 ... If only there were companies or experts who would do that coating process (or other industrial-chemical-processes like galvanization, f.e.) for you. But I know what you mean. It always annoys me when I have to turn on my 150m long sinter plant in my basement to produce one stupid liner(bushing or bearing).
Excuse the sarcasm but you may deserve it...hehehe:P
@s0rc3: What dichromate? ammonium dichromate, potassium dichromate, sodium chromate, lithium chromate, zinc chromate, strontium chromate and chromium(III) chromate ?
btw good luck getting them here in Germany:) At least for someone with no professional reference, or permission or clue! @Wngh isn't so wrong. Yours is like some of those "possibly kill yourself and poison your family" internet tips. Don't be ashamed giving absolutely no hints, security warnings or providing sources, as an expert("I was a post-doc"). Well, don't put to much thoughts into it: I'll do the "ashamed" thing for you...:P
Oh, lest my comment be so useless. I mentioned it above: The nice electroplating company in your area will certainly do just that, surface refinement of materials such as copper, steel, aluminum and others. Just call. ... I meant use the interwebz!!!
@@dieSpinnt Get your full 8 hours of sleep before posting.
Very fancy! Although considering the Arroyo is from the USA I'm disappointed your first test wasn't a precision re-flowed S'more.
13:47 - You can use a TEG as a TEC and sleep well at night, the main difference is TEGs usually have a higher maximum operating temperature as heat sources tend to be hot. A TEC may be rated for 150 °C while a TEG may be rated for 350 °C. There are also some minor differences in junction geometry which affect efficiency and max delta T but those shouldn't be any issue in your application.
My understanding was some small percentage difference in performance, and an extra digit in price. Nice to hear that extra digit got some operating range too.
The temperature diff on the screws is likely the emissivity difference of the metals. The temp is most likely an artifact of the IR camera sensor
I am suspicious about the thermal camera results. The emission coefficient varies by material and surface quality rather likely more than the reported one degree difference. Or the spot size disallows spatial resolution smaller than the screw head size, in case you expected to read the copper temperature next to the screw.
I was surprised that the thermal camera showed about the right temperature. I often see the temperature of reflections when measuring shiny metal surfaces.
Yep, usually for serious applications thermally conductive tape with known emission is used.
Yep, cover the area over a screw in black insulation tape and then look for cold spots.
The inside of the box seems to be covered in tape. Check the bottom left corner at 19:00
@@FF177- good catch.
Hah loved the demon core like screw-driver application at the end of the video 😂
Don't trust the thermal camera when looking at metals, the emissivity is very low and depend a lot on surface oxidation and metal type. Hence I would not trust the low temperature spots on the screws. Painting the surface black normally works well, for example by using conductive graphite spray in several layers (or expensive IR emissivity paint if you have it).
Orrrr, just put a piece of black tape on it. He'd probably not want to paint it.
0:42 i love the arcane circles this board has that people just accept as normal
Yep, had to check what moment You're pointing, because I skipped it as something normal
You mean the transformer footprint? Or the lovely symmetrical traces for the ADR1000?
Bless your generosity Marco ; your genial nerding sessions cleanse my mind about as much as an hour of Bach's music. After each video, I feel re-invigorated.
My monday is now saved thanks to a new Marco Reps video! Thanks Lad!
I get butterflies whenever I see you have posted a new video, I love it. I feel like your living the hobby life I've always wanted 😁
I like your videos because they make me study some topics more in depth so that I can fully understand them. Great work as always and excited to see more
THE room temperature room from community. Nice :D
th-cam.com/video/VxxYqE4Gil8/w-d-xo.html
Had to take a break from my vacation to watch the latest video. Great work once again!
I don't think a better use for the giant heatsink is gonna come up, as cool as a giant electronic load might have been
One of coolest (well, hot actually) giant heatsink usage would be big multi-tranny class A audio amplifier :) Just imagine a big row of power devices coupled to it :)
Great little and handy project. Awesome work.
Always a good day when Marco Reps posts
Just got this recommended from TH-cam, amazing video! Keep it up :)
Pretty impressive project, dude! 😮
Fantastic work!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Well done Aroyo instruments! And thank you so much Marco! it was super interesting ...again:)
Beautiful reference at the end.
The demon temperature chamber
Beautiful setup. Great video.
You are hysterical. Love your videos. Love your fabrication ability.
@Marco Reps @3:35 those two caps on the left of the switching supply look like they are bulging, I wasn't expecting to see that in a new piece of gear, it could just be an optical illusion but might be worth checking! (or it could be I am pre-disposed to finding bad capacitors in every piece of gear I look into LOL).
sometimes I think, I'm crazy then I watch your videos and I feel okay again!
Great video, as always!
I cannot describe why but your videos are like ASMR for electronics dorks and Engineers. no, I will not elaborate
I love the room temperature room clip edited on that screen!
Awesome! Thank you for sharing your electronics genius with us!
i have no idea what you are even talking about. But your talking style is funny and informative at the same time.
Why the Hell you don't have Million Subs and Views? Such Clean and professional work. With proper explanation...
I genuinely LMAO'd at the Louis Slotin screwdriver!!! Well done sir!
Jesus the outro almost gave me a heart attack thinking about the Screwdriver Accident (look it up...)
Wow, this is looks cool!
Hehe, that little demon core analogy in the end was just 👌
I did once have a short lasting infatuation with a thermal well calibrator but luckily got over it.
HUGE props to Arroyo!!!
Are you going to publish the CAD for this rig anywhere?
Looks like a damn good rig (*short of maybe the heatsink lol*), and i feel that stuff like this would make one hell of an Open Source Electronics/Metrology Lab!
Maybe adding small slivers of the thermal pad between the two copper pieces would help? It would allow the temperature between the two pieces to equalize, and seal of the chamber a bit better?
Uhm . . . not sure if this is a technical channel or a stand-up comedy routine, but I likes it.
Repson ist mal wieder am Start, der Mann der tausend Fetische ;)
New old s̶t̶o̶c̶k̶ Marco Reps video!
At 0:15 nice display of that powersupply in the back ground 😀
The demon core reference at the end killed me!
Nice 'Demon Core' touch at the end. :)
you could use heatpipes to make heat more eaven, the distribution of heat can be more controled and it is very fast in all parts that you put them (you can attch then in the side walls).
I would like to see extreme precision toasted sandwiches in the future
Do the edges of your two copper plates touch? It seems like that could help keep even heat.
Maybe thermal pads along the edge of the copper?
"Not great, not terrible."
Oh, the famous last words... 😬
Appreciated that demon core reference
I love thermal experiments! Is there any temperature probe besides a (S)PRT that comes close to those three decimals on the display?
Nice Demon Core reference, very subtle
Nice demon core reference at the end :)
Hey Marco, to reduce the difference in temperature between the halves of your sandwich toaster, would that copper EMI tape stuff help? Or would bonding both halves with some of that low impedance earth strapping make an appreciable difference?
If you wish to achieve good thermal field homogeneity inside the chamber you should introduce small fan in there. It should help a lot. Best luck from Czechia
A couple land mines to look out for. heat leakage through the thermistor wires is a BIG error source. Easy to see by heating the wires right outside of the temp control chamber. Also easy to fix by looping the thermistor wires around inside the temp control chamber till they're longer than a "semi-infinite pin-fin"
How well does the Aroyo perform during a zero crossing of the TEC current? Any blip here means they screwed up the power stage.
Finally, does the temp controller ask for the TEC parameters? (resistance, seabach coefficient, number of junctions, etc.) In my own designs I found that a simple inverse model of the TEC was needed for best PID loop stability. Made the PID loop tuning independent of ambient temperature and let me run the loop ~10x faster. (i.e. PID commands heat-flux at zero delta-T, inverse model calculates the current required)
Nice.
Did you thinking about make your chamber presurized and fill it with helium - event at atmospheric presure. Second idea is repleace screws with springs, from outside copper chamber to alu sink - no heat bridge, no temp. gradients.
This got me dehydrated from drooling so much
Maybe a relatively thin sheet of copper across the faces of the halves would eliminate the cold spots?
Also, instead of the thermal pads, there's a thermal compound called K5 Pro which is supposed to perform better than pads.
Great video.
Get a piece of CVD diamond sheet. If you get heat spreader quality, it's not terribly expensive.
You can get screws and bolts made of PEEK if you need a very high amount of isolation.
If you ever find yourself needing more efficiency from the fans a shroud around them so the air can only go out at the sides once it's passed all the metal will do it.
In a pinch you can do it with printer paper, though a pla 3dp would be optimal.
Could the different emmisivity of the screws not be interfering with your measurement?
I've been trying to find a good quality pair of automatic wire strippers for mostly small wires that don't mess up the wires, like maybe 16-30AWG, what would you recommend?
Was that a demon core reference at the end there with the screwdriver?
What if you put some high-emissivity material on the inside faces of the copper halves? Perhaps radiation could help even out the temperature difference. Or stand it on its side? Both?
Haha, loved the community clip @0:15 . Foreshadowing a sun chamber build? ;p
When you say that PCBWay sponsored this video, you aren't kidding. I hope no one there had a heart attack when they saw those copper plates.
21:19 Nice Louis Slotin reference!
What connector were you using on the peltier module?
It's amazing what pcbway can produce, what's next, custom LCD's in 10 days..🤔
19:00 which thermal camera are you using? Image looks pretty sharp
would it at all benefit from an internal fan to convect the different temperatures around?
we havent seen any of the cnc, did it go bust?
3D printing of ceramics might also be very interesting if you want to conduct some heat.
i've always wanted a german panini-maker
Ehi Marco, at around 19:00 what cap are you using to solder the thermocouple?
For a minute I thought that the birds chirping was here and not on the video, nice
wow that's Cool
How much was the add-on for the Siglent? ;)
About the screwdriver there at the end... Do you know the history of the "Demon Core"? 😬
Wow. Just _WOW_. I'm all salivating 😁
And Excelsys power supply. Double "wow" then 😉
We now need the Arroyo Steak Cooker™. To Cook steak to mathematical perfection
1:45 trippy transition
21:19 is that a reference to the demon core?
maybe a little thermal interface foam at the junctions between the sides?
Do you know what the cost of the two copper parts would have been?
The black 3458A is under enormous pressure with the heavy weight above it......obviously to keep the PPM's from escaping.
cant u submerge the ltz1000 under certain oil that is heated to warm temp say like 56 degrees celesious to make it stable
Why don't you use copper screws instead, so you have an even temperature inside?
Missed opportunity for rotary knob ASMR ;P
What TECs did you use, please ?
If you need nice solution for cables, that will be bent regularly i am sure, that sencom bran automotive wires would do excellent job. Those are coated, high temp silicone insulated and with really fine copper. Example part number would be SENLB1389-10 and i'm sure, that availability in germany is good as in cars doors have really common loom failures :> Any repair with those refuses to die, and i did a lot of them through years
Fabulous project, German engineering sense with a sense of German humor
Any reason why you can't just go with copper screws?