South African Steam: GEA & GMAM Garratts Montagu Pass South Africa
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2010
- Join South African Railways GEA 4023 and GMAM 4122 for an early morning departure from Oudtshoorn with the Union Limited, heading for George via tha magnificent Montagu Pass.
Thank you so much for sharing such magical steam moments. The SA scenery, sounds and light combine beautifully with steam.
Thank you! Inedible scenery there.
The quality of music it makes is second to none 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you!
When that garrett come steaming up from Ondervalle to Boven (1977) I tell you theres no greater sound than that. Ah! Music to my ears.
Magnificent sounds!
I can remember a train ride above the clouds descending down Montagu pass early in the morning in the 1960’s. I will never forget this. It is a memory that I will take to my grave. `Oh you beautiful Garratts’ that made it possible.
A magical place with amazing steam locomotives
That wistle was amazing
It was! Such a great trip.
Well worth seeing, glad you filmed it!
Thanks, it was quite amazing.
Amazing pictures,thanks for posting them.So sad to read that these locos are no longer working.I toured SA in 1976,80 and 85,in 76 I travelled over the Montague Pass behind a GMA.the only GEAs I saw were 26 at Paarden Eiland and about 5-6 at Voorbai all waiting for the scrapman so never saw one working.
Plenty of happy memories,You Tube brings back these memories.Alan.
Cheers, they were good days
and to think after 1994 elections how the country fell into a hell hole, now its so unsafe to travel,
Iconic locomotives of my youth. Thanks for sharing.
Yes those Garratts are awesome locomotives
Brilliant video, South Africa at its best, thanks for posting.
Cheers!
Great bit of film,i just got back from S A and to see two of the last of these monsters in Bloemfontein yard together with what is suposed to the national collection just abandoned and rusting away brings tears to your eyes.S A just has no intrest in steam heitage apart from a few small groups doing their bit to preserve what they can.Tony
Yes it's a crying shame, the state of railways there now...
Magnificent footage
Thanks!
Spectacular!
Thanks! That was a great day...
Some great shots typical of S Africa, thanks for posting.
Thanks!
Stunning video photography!!
Thanks!
Beautiful.
Just Beautiful.
Garretts have always seemed special to me,and this is just about the best video I have seen on TH-cam so far about them.
Such a special type of loco, they make the "Mallets" seem ordinary. Two power bogies, and a loco in between.....
Lovely pink morning light and steam as well, thanks :).
Magnicificent.
Thank you!
Much steam and interesting locomotives in a magnificent landscape! Great video!
Thanks. That was a great trip.
Excellent footage!
Sad to see that SA neglected a vital part of its heritage.
Yes, so sad. It could have been a real drawcard.
and to think today in some places no rails even left.all stolen after covid
and to think in some places no rails even left. all stolen during covid @@steamfreak
Fantastic and great video. Thank you very much.
Cheers.
Yes, magnificent! I grew up with these engines at close hand as my Dad worked for what was back then called the S.A.R&H ... South African Railways and Harbours. I left SA in 1987 and think it is terribly sad that the current regime does not honor such rich history ... Thank you so very much ...
Very sad these days
Awesome footage. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks!
Excellent Video - Somehow SAR Steam is still tops for me!!!
Thanks for posting, 5*
Bryn
Thanks!
Does it get any better than this? Fabulous post. 5*
Thanks!
Most beautiful steamloco video I've ever seen. Sometimes it felt like slow motion..
Thanks so much
Fantastic video Trev! It's absolutely amazing how these locos operate. I would LOVE to go to South Africa and visit the steam depots just for photos.
Thanks Dan. Sadly all the depots are history now.
sadly the country is now so un safe,
not only that, how unsafe its now in SA @@steamfreak
Great video! Thank you for sharing
Uwe
Cheers
Greta memeories as a laaitie.My dad worked as a conductor in Oudtshoorn and george,later on the Choo Tjoe
Amazing railway lines
Great footage l love SAR that was and have suscribed. l have footage on my channel ( third engineer ) of Garratts on Pietermaritzburg MPD in 1973
Thanks , I'll have a look.
Used to go down to the works as a kid to see the Garrats leaving on a low loader going to the docks .My old dad was foreman boiler maker at Peacocks building the front end of the Garrats. Very little left of the works apart from the boundary walls, Gorton now run down used to be a major engineering area.There are more blacks here than in South Africa.
They produced some mighty machines!
Hell, these two put on one hell of a show
Was very impressive!
O yes! Loverly! I well remember these fabulous machines when steam ruled our r;l system. "Earth hath not anything to show more fair ...."
Indeed!
True old school power
Full steam Garratt Power... The best!
Wonderful film. Thankyou
Cheers
Once a steamfreak always a steamfreak Mag. Locomotives
Always! 🙂
Outstanding video! Thank you for sharing. 5* - Mike
Thanks!
Simply amazing!!!
Thanks. That was an incredible day.
Its amazing the drivers can see anything at all!!!
They know the road.....
There was plenty of steam that cold morning!
@Linda69P Thanks! This was filmed in August 2002. Sadly since then so much has changed. These locomotives and even the train are no longer operating.
O yes! Loverly! I well remember these fabulous machines when steam ruled pour ra;l system.
Good days, those.
Directly, yes, but mainly due to the state railway company Transnet deciding to no longer continue their heritage section. These locos are still in existence, but standing and rusting whilst the coaches have been weather damaged and some vandalised beyond repair. Sad.
Bravo! Thanck you!
Cheers!
Super video!
Thanks, that was one of my favourite days!
Awesome !
Thanks!
massive footage !
Thanks
Superb!
Thanks!
Speechless.
Thank you!
Holy Smoke! Beats any dragon movie!
😊 Thanks!
C'est le plus beau clip vu sur une double-traction GARRATTS sur train de voyageurs. de très belles images ! Félicitations au caméraman ! J'espère qu'il a été conservé quelques unes de ces machines en état pour tracter des trains spéciaux ?
🙂🙂🙂
Wonderous Beasts...
Incredible!
wow....cool!
Thanks!
Great video as always! I am looking for shots (pictures) for the GMAM Garratt's cab.
Not sure if a have any...
Even better than a Union Pacific Big Boy.
+James Braithwaite :) I think so...
Big Boys have bigger boilers but Garratts are cool in their own way. Waste of motive power for a passenger run though. What gauge is the track?
Alex Batey On another video they said 1.06 meter. Don't know if it's the same as these. That was the Zimbabwe rail video,same type engines though!
South Africa runs on narrow gauge rail
Most US rail is standard size gauge. Very few narrow gauge.I have home videos of the Big Boys,Union Pacific films.
There are a few in Bulawayo, Zimbabwe and Wankie Colliery and Vic Falls, also Zimbabwe.
Great!
Thanks!
@Spalterbockl Yes, it was the same TRV7E Mini DV camera with Sennheiser ground mic.
not being a steam fan but thats cracking footage Trevor
Thanks!
Awesome
Thanks!
Very good, thank you, trevor. Did you use the same identical video cameras?
Yes, I had an analog camera 1994-1997 then miniDV from 2007.
It is easy to understand how the steam loco is only 7% efficient. Think of the sweat and toil the coal miners had in supplying fuel for one journey.
Praise God for the endeavour of those who designed and made these magnificent beasts.
Yes they sure were not efficient beasts!
May I ask how you were able to say that a steam locomotive is only 7% efficient? Is that from a conversion of calorific value to effective tractive effort? Or simply that it takes more imputs compared to other forms of traction? Interestingly enough now in 2022 I would think steam could almost be competative as opposed to diesel hauled services.
@@adriannettlefold9084 , Adrian,I listened to a scientific programme about the relative benefits of various forms of power generating systems , including traction. I have good reason to believe it is true. The heat dissipated by a firebox on a locomotive is enormous. When the smoke is expelled, it blows out much heat with it. The system is not enclosed- meaning the great bulk of the heat is wasted. I worked as a thermal insulation engineer- a fancy name for a lagger- in power stations , factories, gas liquification plants in the UAE.
@@Randolph1233 thank you for the reply and explanation. I am a locomotive driver and qualified on Steam with our Heritage Division in Queensland Rail, Australia. When you mentioned the figure of 7% it had me interested as to how or why you came to that conclusion, and yes I agree that it does loose most heat. But would also like to add, that it is a very effective design in imparting that heat energy into generating steam given the variables in stop start , up and down gradient, and change in load being hauled at any given time. Internal firebox brick arches lengthen the gas path for better and complete combustion. Superheater elements impart much of the remaining calorific value of the hot gases passing through to exhaust as is possible as well as feedwater heaters and in some SAR locos condencors. Again thanks for the reply. Cheers
@@adriannettlefold9084 The thermodynamic efficiency of the external combustion steam locomotive is low, but modern design of flow and skilled operators can raise the efficiency significantly. I wonder how total cost of ownership over the engines' lifetimes compare with soulless electronic diesel boxes.
Brutal!
Yep that's some decent power for narrow gauge!
A bit off the topic, but not entirely. I travelled as a kid many times on steam trains and I remember seeing every now and then a train inspector sitting next to the tracks with a hammer hitting the passing wheels. He was obviously listening to the sound from each strike. Was he listening for any cracks in the wheels?
I remember the wheel taper make his way along the train, the ultrasonic test of its age.
hawkeye0248 Iv heard of them being called Tapiologists although. I'm not too sure if this was there official designation or not.
Yes, indeed he was listening for the thunk of a cracked tyre.
Great Vid !!! Are there any Garratts left in service in the southern parts of Africa today ??????
There are a number of 2' gauge Garratts at Sandstone, plus a GMAM at Creighton. That's about it.
The World Bank made a loan to Angola conditional to them getting rid of their wood burning garret locomotives. This may have been in the 1970’s
Sounds right. Zimbabwe had similar from Canada...
Beautiful. What is the date this was filmed?
August 2001
It just doesn't get any better thn double headed Garrets!
They are pretty good!
How does the driver see the signals through all that steam and smoke?
+Gnostic Brian the are probably running on radio train orders so would have the radio in the lead loco's can.
Austrorus. They are water tanks for the locos. Locos only carry enough water in the front tank for use in the yards. The design was adopted to keep the weight down for use on lightly laid branch lines.
That's correct. softer rails are easier to make and lay. when most of the rails in southern Africa were laid they had a choice, soft rails, or stronger rails, softer rails would go further but they had a weight limits. so the decided to use the Garret because of its low surface area, and tractive effort so the train could pull the same weight as the stronger rails.
Grease Maggot That's what I thought. The Garret was a lighter narrow gauge answer for a twin engine compound engine without having the weight of those big articulated monster like the Challenger and Big boys.
Indeed. They were semi-permanently coupled.
They were the ideal loco for big loads on light lines
It's more the rail weight than the hardness of the steel. These could run on 60 lb/yd which is quite light
Visually and audibly 5 stars...
Thank you!
It looks likes a leading was either priming or just leaking badly.Garrat locomtives were powerful and I fail to understand as to why did they have to double head that train.A lone GEA garrat rated 14 coaches unassisted while GMA took up to 16 effortlessly.
Mostly for show, as it was a tourist train
nice to look at for fans, but hell to work for the engineers
They loved it!
Does anyone know what happened to the garratts beyer sold to south africa when Australia refused the last 3 of the 60 class?
It's unlikely any 60 Class ever went to South Africa
@pheonics153 Might be a bit late Dan, not much still running there now...
steamfreak3450 - Steam trains around the world I
I've heard that after the end of apartheid, things that were created by the regime were discarded willy-nilly, regardless how important to the country's prosperity or their historical significance.
The SAR was decimated, after which overloaded over the road trucking destroyed the roads. All to rid the country of an historic icon. People such as that would cut off their noses to spite their faces.
Is that far off the mark? If not, then many tragic losses.
The decline was started when De Klerk was still around. It was the Saffa version of the Beecham report. Rian Mulam did a PBS special on his return to SA and talked of line closings and loss of some passenger service.
It is a tragedy
@@charlesbutt8406 , you can’t run a transport system, which is too costly, just because you like the drama of the sound, sight , and smell of steam.
They did indeed. It's even worse now.
@@steamfreak
Thank you for the reply. There is an evil corruption at work in the world. South Africa is certainly a mess. Every country is corrupted to some extent.
Your videos in South Africa are a favorite of mine. The Red Devil and its upgrades prompted my looking into Porta et al. I can't identify one diesel box from another; its the steam locomotive with its soul that I love.
Of course I love the Welsh Highland Rwy and its story. I love the 2' gauge, a size that would make a great fit in cities.
Best wishes and thanks for the videos.
I bet you were pleased with the shot at 2:00.
I was pleased with the whole trip - but yes, especially that shot!
I have some videos of the Beyer Garratt on my channel but I had to take them on my phone
Thanks I'll have a look
Certainly had a lot of Steam Leaks ! Shows wat sort of maintenance these Beautiful Beasts received ? there is 1 Class 600 Beyer-Garrat at the Canberra rail Museum in Full Working order !!
+Tom Armstrong Thanks Tom - I've been to see 6029 a few times - amazing!
th-cam.com/video/47NaIp8k2I8/w-d-xo.html
+Tom Armstrong Steam leaks abate as loco heats up at 5:03
at 5,38 does one engine coast along while the other works hard on a down hill to save fuel,
I have wondered about that. Possibly, although they both seem to be working...
Due to maintenance?
Due to railway management who don't care, sadly...
waht do they ahve inbetwee nthe 2 Locos? additional tank with water?
"... inbetwee nthe 2 Locos? additional tank with water?" * * * Yes. * * *
Yes, extra water tank. Not many working columns around these days.
What is the box at the front of the engines? What is the tank car (between the engines) for?
+SirDeanosity they are articulated Garratt locomotives, so they have a water tank at the front. The tank car is a feeder tank for the GMAM Garratt, these were permanently attached to the GMAM Garratts f or additional water capacity.
SirDeanosity, Beyer Garratt locomotives were designed this way with a water tank over the front power unit and a full tender over the back power unit so the boiler could be slung between the frames.
This means you could fit a very wide radius boiler with short length tubing (which is exactly what you want for a powerful boiler) and fit within the relatively tight loading gauges of the states and colonies that used them.
The Beyer Garratt format also kept axle loading quite reasonable and so they were the solution for many Asian and African countries where more powerful locomotives were required but putting on stronger infrastructure was economically infeasible.
The tank car was mostly a South African practice and was the primary place for water consumption. The reason is that if considerable amounts of water were taken from the front tank, adhesion decreases considerably for the front unit.
Carbon footprint???? what are you talking about. used to go from jhb to grahamstown for school. garretts at alicedale :D
It's all steam, and some carbon solids returning to whence they came!
you sound like a trump follower. educate yourself about what happens when you burn coal. remark was made tongue in cheek
"When coal is burned, it reacts with the oxygen in the air. This chemical reaction converts the stored solar energy into thermal energy, which is released as heat. But it also produces carbon dioxide and methane."
@@ppjolla Not sure what Trump has to do with Garratt locomotives - he probably wouldn't even know what one is? Yes, my reply was also made tongue in cheek. I am kind of aware what happens when coal is burned, but thank you for the attempted education effort!
Pity he cant shut the cylinder drains as well as he plays the whistle
🤣 Indeed!
Its a shame when this happens to railways. Mind you the kingston flyer went under but that got saved so we never know
I'm still hoping!
Are they still at work now?
+James Braithwaite those locos are still around but not working. The GMAM has recently been acquired for use on the Knysna line and will hopefully run again soon.
Cool.
Why do these locos steam much more than the ones in zim
It was a freezing morning, giving lovely clouds of white steam.
Do you know what has happened to them
Are the rear cylinder cocks open on both locomotives at 7:01?
Yep, certainly looks that way...
Surely Garratts are essentially freight engines? Why are they pulling this passenger train? Must have been a fairly slow trip?
+Gregory Lauder-Frost Garratts hauled all manner of trains in South Africa, on the many mountains routes. The old PE passenger train that plied this route was Garratt hauled on this section. And yes it was a slow trip!
Terrain in South Africa dictated that Garratts were used extensively for all train types, for some time they were the dominant loco in Natal, in particular on branch lines that climbed in land.
Did they really need two locos for this train?
No, I really think that the GEA could have handled the load solo!
Maybe not, but I'm so glad they did. Awesome stuff.
I'm also glad they doubleheaded. But while Garrets are powerful, they have a design flaw in that all the weight on the drivers are under the tenders, and as the loco consumes fuel, it gets lighter, thus loosing tractive effort. Montagu Pass has a hard grade of 1 to 36, pr 2.78%. Though for any railway. So doubleheading would be necessary.
I made a mistake. These Garrats were not as powerful as I thought. The GEA & GMAM "only" had tractive effort of 60,700 lb (75%). The UP Challegers generated up to 97,350 lb, and some 4-8-2 Mountains (specifically the Frisco's) generated more than that ( 66,400lbs)..
But with a Garratt you do not have a tender sat on a series of undriven axles. This was a problem with American articulated designs, some 170 tons and more sat on unpowered axles under the tender - and don't mention the Allegheny which had some 117 long tons of locomotive sat on undriven axles. The Y6b had only a little over 28 long tons on the undriven axles under the locomotives. the difference in weight between the two types is a little over 71 long tons. Yes the N & W design is smaller but the amount of weight on the Lima design which is the reverse of beneficial when it comes to delivering power to the railhead is little short of embarrassing. The Y6b actually has the greater adhesive weight. the design also made far more money for the company that built it than was the case for "Lima's finest".
Esas locomotoras ,son puro humo,y dificultosas para ver el maquinista por el rumbo que vá.
Pedro Nesich You are right! But it is mostly steam, as it was a freezing cold morning. But still difficult for the crew to see the line ahead...
made in sunny Gorton.
Amazing work!
Impossibel to find better movies on youtube!
Thank you!
Why doublehead???
A long and heavy train over a steeply graded mountain pass.
На керосине. Охуенная техника. Хоть что-то в Африке есть...
Thanks
True Legends of a bygone era. Can't you see the Climate Catasrophits heads exploding ? 🤯🤯🤯. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣.
🤣 Yes indeed! I do cop a bit of climate alarmism here on this channel! Steam locos are definitely Greta's worst nightmare!
@@steamfreak They are all Grade A HYPOCRITES. Chuck em in the firebox. Lol. Our most famous steam train is the 3801 in Australia.
These locomotives are the main reasons for global warming ,pollution ,and melting of Antarctica's ice and glaciers.
Hahaha! You're quite the comedian! Their numbers have been dwindling since the 1940's. Only a handful survived into this century. You're clearly no climate scientist...
were you exposed to lead as a kid?
Ayush Jim fuckwit
Talk about pollution!
+Roy Paris steam is water vapour.