Hand Tool Live: Bevel Up vs Bevel Down Planes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2020
- Let's talk about bevel up vs bevel down again. Its been a while and I've received some questions so I'll walk through the primary differences and take some questions from the peanut gallery.
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2ndary bevel: amen! Too much math, too much work, too little feedback. Great video!
Your knowledge is astounding and ability to explain so anyone can understand
Great visual demonstration of grain, tear-out and blade angle at 15:00.
Great to see a left hander for a change,showing us all your knowledge! Keep it up,From George Henry ,Shetland Islands.
That's funny as I usually catch crap for being left handed and not showing how "normal" people work. I always laugh as someone who has had to adapt my sinister way of doing everything all my life.
As a left handed shooter that can shoot pretty well right handed, it’s hilarious watching someone right handed try and shoot left handed. They almost can’t even hold the gun the first time. Us lefty’s are far more versatile. We make do all the time. Right handed people can’t fathom that something left handed even exists.
I didn't watch it but you're looking in good shape man!
very informative and awesome video. unfortunately it doesn't make the choice of which plane to buy any easier, I will inevitably buy both rather than agonizing over it lol
I will be teaching a class later this month at my local Woodcraft on handplanes. Missed your video live darn it, but you've reinforced my experience with handplanes. I have both bevel up and bevel down planes, and like you, see little difference between them in use other than a small amount of convenience when one needs to sharpen. Thanks for another very informative video on hand tools, I've learned quite a lot from your TH-cam videos over the years.
Good luck with your class. Best advice when learning hand planes: just start using them. You learn the most by actually putting edge to wood. Oh and hand planing isn't hard. So if you are working hard, something is wrong
@@RenaissanceWW Thanks for the advice. So true about actually doing instead of only reading about it or watching. Also, I've found from teaching other things that you really find out how well you know a subject by teaching it to another.
Short story from the not too very distant past of mine. Bought a #6 to use as a jointer plane long before I knew that even with a good plane there is some skill involved LOL. Man, I thought that plane was going to give me perfectly flat boards just like magic. Much to my surprise (as you can probably imagine) I found out rather quickly that it's very much the person handling the plane that makes the most difference.
I hope I can do as good a job passing on my modest skills as you do your (much higher) skills in these videos.
So jealous of that Stanley #2 that's a good looking plane.
I'm proud of that one, took some time to find one. They are pricey tho.
Just different ways to do the same job
Is it possible to get the opening song for download or streaming?
Possibly. I commissioned that song by Underhill Rose as part of a Kickstarter reward in supporting one of their albums. Let me ask Eleanor how she feels about me distributing it first.
@@RenaissanceWW I'm interested in this as well if you get the go ahead
You're the first person I've ever heard say a "lie Nielsen is like a Chinese made plane". Please explain.
One year later...
I think he said there are a lot of Chinese made planes made in the same pattern than the lie Nielson.
I would add as advantage of bevel down the weight. The weight is good. Not to much not to low. Some times i prefer the jointer low angle than the jack bevel down, both weight same and i can adjust easier the jointer to rought to fine than the jack
personally, my first buiy is going to be...actually i'm not sure i'd like to buy a bevel down for shooting i tuned up a old #5 stanley, and do need a smoother. as my first plane that bedrock is heavy. i kind of like the idea of a lighter plane. althought a little wax makes it glide easy on the wood.
@@DrewCar3y yes at the start i was not sure, because you feel like the chip breaker is indispensable, but when i adquire the jointer and the low angle jack. You see that tying the mouth of the plane and maybe putting a 38° degrees blade is not neccesary the chip breaker. I have a 50° degree blade, but i practically never use it. So if you look for a smoothing plane the Veritas LA smooth plane will work fine(i dont have this one, i have the Bevel Up smoother) if for you shooting is a little more important the additional maybe the LA Jack plane will work fine. And even is not so difficult to use it as smoother
I have a bevel up Jack and Block plane. I also have a bevel down No.6 and a 4 1/2. I have extra blades for all of them and switch blades as required to achieve an attack angle of anywhere between 45 degrees to 70 degrees. Why is there a preference for bevel ups for blade switching. I'm not challenging your comments. I'm questioning my findings. You are a much more experienced cat skinner than I. Thank you
How are you changing the angle of attack with a bevel down plane? The frog is what creates the planing angle in that instance whereas on a bevel up plane, the blade sets that angle.
@@RenaissanceWW I'm grinding and then polishing a 25degree bevel on the upper (normally flat) side of the bevel down blade. In that case it gives an angle of attack to the timber of 70degrees.
@@RenaissanceWW Your thoughts?
@@Danny-ul4sq what you are doing is essentially creating the same effect but I don't like the idea of a double bevel blade. First you weaken the edge by having two bevels and a thinner amount of steel at the cutting edge. This can be ameliorated to some extent by the steep bevel angle but I'm not sure the additional effort is worth the result. The biggest drawback however is now you have to push your chipbreaker back behind that top bevel making the fit of the blade assembly in the frog and under the lever cap problematic for some planes and shortening the overall blade length. But more at the heart of this is the fact that the chipbreaker itself is designed to do what you are doing with the top bevel. Why increase the presentation angle of the blade in the first place? To reduce tear out. By snugging a chipbreaker up tight to the cutting edge you are doing the same thing. While the chipbreaker cannot go right to the cutting edge like you have with a top bevel, add to the system a tight mouth on the plane and you will net greater tearout control that one element alone. So my thoughts are you are possibly making things more difficult than necessary and adding to the sharpening you have to do. But my opinions are also colored by the fact that I don't really see much need for higher angle frogs and blades to control tearing. A sharp blade, tight mouth, skew angle, and tight chipbreaker (in that order) are all I have needed to tackle even the most ornery jungle wood grain.
@@RenaissanceWW Thank you for your generous reply. You are a busy person and I appreciate that you have devoted some though and time to your reply. Your answer clarifies why a back bevel would not suite you but your answer also confirms why it works for me. It has worked for me for some time without issue. In Australia many of the timbers readily to hand are really tough on a hand plane. Tear out is tough. Hence, 1, a ludicrously sharp plane blade and fine mouth is frequently not always enough for the timbers I use. Also then there is the issue of the purpose of the "chip breaker". Wooden planes with wedge adjustment had blades that were at least as thick as contemporary plane blades and I've seen some that were 1/4" thick at the sharp end so as to assist in the wedging process. But maintaining a blade that thick on stones not as good as ours was a troublesome and time consuming issue. The big issue for the Bailey design was that it reduced the thickness of the blade and so reduced the time required to maintain that blade. But the thinner blade required support. Hence the chip breaker applied pressure to and support to the cutting face. Contemporary blades reduce the need (do not eliminate) for the chip breaker. So, 2, I have found that having the chip breaker back a 1/16" from the cutting edge on a 1/8" thick blade is not an issue if the chip breaker is about support. And 3, I keep the back bevel at no more than 1/32" wide, hence it doesn't chew into the support of the blade by much.
I really like my low angle jack and block planes, but adjusting the lateral and depth of cut is a pain compared to the Bedrock planes. Then again, even with the same 70degree cutting angle, the low angle jack just inches out Bedrock for reduced tear out, but not by an appreciable amount.
Again, thank you for your thoughts on the matter. I think the only point we really differ on is the purpose of the chip breaker. The rest is more about the timbers we use. The discussion has clarified a few points for me.
Hey.there's something on fire behind you
I was going for the Hollywood action hero look with an explosion behind me as I run away.
I always look at WR planes as knock-offs of a Stanley of the same size as with Lie Neilson. What I have seen in doing some research is that reviews indicate that they’re not equivalent in quality to that of Lie Neilson and definitely not Veritas. LN took the Stanley design and brought it up to a higher quality with technology. The Chinese just copied the design look and found a way to make it cheaper, not better. It’s all about the market you sell into. A WR #5 Jack selling here in 🇨🇦 is over $500.00 . CRAZY 🇨🇦🙀👨🦳👎
Great visual demonstration of grain, tear-out and blade angle at 15:00.