Choosing A Bevel Angle And Other Life Changing Choices
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ส.ค. 2022
- Plane Angle tests: • Plane Test Results ALL...
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Choosing the best bevel angle can be daunting for the beginner. there are many reasons to choose a higher angle or a lower angel and there are reasons to have one bevel angle to rule them all.
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This is why I love this channel. Useful explanation about why it’s important to get on making, not worrying about details that are not really important. Plus an endless series of dad joke tee shirts
Sharpening is apparently rife with cults: everyone has a different method and opinion and they all think theirs is best. Thanks for the insight.
Another excellent video, James. My advice to everyone is persevere! When I restored my planes four years ago, the first video on sharpening I watched was James and he assured us all that we would get better with practice. I was awful and my edges wouldn't cut hair off a peach but they worked in the wood and I kept at it. Last weekend I set a new bevel and sharpened a new-to-me No. 8. When I finished, I was pealing off the "curls that get the girls". It's a dream to use. So persevere. You really do become a better sharpener with time.
Thank you for this video. I once asked a woodworker, why he always felt safe in the shop, even though he worked with sharp things. He replied simply, "I have a guardian angle!"
I usually respond to it with none of my tools are currently sharp. That's the reason I have so many planes. I can work through them until they are all dull and then eventually have to go back and sharpen them all.
All tools that have or use an edge should be treated as firearms are treated; they should be considered to be sharp and dangerous if mishandled, just as all firearms should be considered loaded and dangerous if mishandled and therefore treated with great care, all tools should be treated with the same kind of care and caution.
Loved the way you explained about the hands knowing the angles and need not worry about the protector degrees.
That's my way, forget about elaborate arrangements, my hands and eyes know what my mind want them to do and see.
Another excellent presentation, Prof. Wright. Seriously, you really helped me understand the importance of bevel angle. And the upshot for me is that I don’t need to be so concerned about my angle while sharpening! Thanks!
I like to keep it simple too. It's worth mentioning that steel type can be a factor. Stanley tool steel seems to do ok with most angles. But I have found with A2 steel that it does better with steeper per angles.
This Video needs more attention. Great as everytime
In a few decades, nobody will notice anymore that this video is about the perfict angel. But I'm a pacimyst.
I’m definitely not here to argue. I enjoyed your explanation of the various angles and is something to consider. I also appreciate the simplicity of Rex Kruger’s 25 degrees across the board.
You’ve just inspired me to stop using my veritas (waste of money) sharpening jig and just free hand it cause it doesn’t need to be perfect.
Keeping it in perspective. Thank you. It's about the wood curls!
Thanks for the redirect
I must have changed my angels on my chisels 5 to 10 times already best for me is two sets of chisels 25 degrees for pairing 35 for chopping
Well done! Always appreciate your content and approach. Related to this subject, I have come to respect “to each their own”. I landed on 27 degrees about 10 years ago and use it for chisels, plane irons, bevel up, bevel down, with success in domestic softwoods and all hardwoods. It has proven to provide me with acceptable durability and it is easily replicable, quickly, in my shop. Giving me the confidence to get the same performance, sharpening after sharpening. Enjoy making - “sawdust and shavings”, your way!
I like the maths joke on your t-shirt.
Love your channel. Love the T-Shirt almost as much!
I'm going to go with the 25 degree for everything when I do my 'sharpen everything in the shop' project in the near future. Good to know that won't handicap me terribly. I also gave the vid a like.
That was really helpful and so well explained. I love your easy going no stress attitude. Thanks
nice, i was wondering to homogeinse my sharpening (all by hand for now) with a jig.
Ok after work i actually look at the video ... and as usual with you james, it keep me with a smile on my face all along . and the comment above is discarded, i ll stay with freehand sharpening, it cuts quite ok after all ... As a "young amater"' (on the craft for one year) i still struggle with squareness tho .. i keep tilting my sharpening ( more aggressive on my strong hand side ..)
The angle I sharpen to is the that looks about right angle. Seems to work ok so far.
Very good video I’ve been wondering about this for awhile because I’m a beginner. Thank you.
Great video, it should be helpful for anyone confused about which angles to use for which tools.
For bench planes I notice that they do engage better when the angle is less than 30, requiring little to no down pressure. So I tend to prefer to sharpen them at around 30, since I like that easy engagement, and it's worth a bit more frequent sharpening for me. Also I find when freehand sharpening, I rarely undershoot an angle, I often overshoot, and I've had planes fail to engage properly because I came too close to 45°, and there wasn't enough of a relief angle, as you explained. So for me shooting for the 30° means If I don't get it right it'll be 35° and that'll still work fine.
Well explained. Thank you
That's a really helpful video James - as usual, it's all about personal preference and it's not a case of saying "you MUST" - I'm more of a carver than a woodworker really, and so the tendency is to try and keep everything razor sharp - but understanding that angle choice is a trade-off between edge durability and ease of cut might make me decide to change for example the angle I sharpen a Plane Iron to. In other words - no real point to the comment other than to help the algorithm spread the word...
Excellent info. Thanks, James
I do about the same thing, put a 20 something degree angle with a grinder then free hand whatever angle i need with a microbevel. I do have one problem with bevel up planes tho, aren't they just a dumb tool? I see only negatives, the angle is too low and the edge is fragile, and at the same time the angle is not really that low, a regular bevel down plane with a 30 degree bed is way lower angle than a low angle plane.
Late to the party but I’lll put my thanks in too. You know how sometimes you know something but really need someone to lay it out in front of you for the penny to drop? You did that for me :). I have been struggling with tear out with my LV bevel up jack and working on my sharpening and mouth angle to try to fix. Duh. Try a higher angle blade!
Good James! One of the better videos on this topic. I wish you had put it out a few years ago.
I like to freehand sharpen and I change my angles depending on the job and the tool. Sometimes I hit a sweet spot, and that’s where thing get fun.
Thank you for giving me good idea about bevel angle.
Good one James. I have cheat sheets for my tools that I have mostly memorized hung up by my bench. Magnetic angle finder gets me in the ball park when in doubt. Bottom line I'm just waiting for automation... self sharpening tools.
It would be interesting to see your "Strokes to 300" and "Final Dullness" values for the different bevel angles. You would only have to do the test for a few angles, maybe 30, 35 and 40 degrees.
that data is int he plane iron test sheet down at the bottom. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BX7Reja0P8bI78Pe1DgVy-5D7WD8YuDzg_q4Z3qIlH8/edit?usp=sharing
Fantastic video James
Good one! Very well e explained.
That's why I wanted to practice freehand sharpening, to free myself from the search of the perfect angle and complicated jigs ... Now I think I have enough skills to start thinking about different angles from my tools. Nice tips and ideas as always 🙂
Somewhereish sorta kinda around the 30 degreeish mark works for me. I work with a lot of Australian Native timbers which are either stupidly hard or full of silica, so need a more durable edge.
thanks, that was very helpful like most of your videos. I did read Prof. Wright somewhere down below and in deed I feels like attenidng a lektur watching your videos, except that I m not bored and I do actually learn a lot.
So in summary: It don't matter. None o' dis matters.
It is very good for those new to this wonderful pass time/hobby to have your wise guidance….wait….it is good for all of us that do any woodworking - seasoned or fresh, woodnuts or toolnuts! A good thing can never be said too much. Ten thumbs up! 👍🏻x10
Great video!! I used to measure & sweat & resharpen once or twice oh boy this won't work more time on the stones than on the wood. I use the Canadian method with a south Texas Coast twist and it works great. Put an edge on get it on the wood it will cut if it's not the best edge work with it do something different the next time you go to the stones. Great video keep them coming.
Thank you.
Brilliant, now I can get on with actually making something.
I suppose you could use the dad angle but they are always right! LOL. But maybe we need a more complex solution! Great video James. My ribs are hurting reading your tee shirt.
Amazing video again as usual! I usually just try to restore the previous angle when grinding my tools. But now I'm motivated to give it a second thought next time!
I got another idea for a video, maybe you already made one. About predicting grain direction. It can be quite tricky and often I have to make a wrong cut before I turn and go from the right direction. Especially around branches, where the grain go towards the knot on one side and away from the knot on another. Or when the plank don't follow the grain perfectly etc.
That's always a lot of fun. I have made a short video on it but you're coming basically summed it up. And sometimes read the grain direction but a lot of times can't. th-cam.com/users/shortskCJ_u8qpsFg?feature=share
Needed this video 4 years ago 😂🤙
I learned to freehand sharpen as kid with pocketknives in boy scouts and have always freehand sharpened because it is so much easier and faster, i can also sharpen somethin without havin to pay a lot of attention to it because my wrist has trained to the angle i generally use
Thanks for explaining.
Btw I don't know why everyone use a wooden mallet. When I was young like 15 I stated to carve for fun and tried some hammer, mallet and rubber mallet and right away I found that the rubber mallet is so much better. I just found all other options to be too direct and got faster and more comfortable with the rubber one. Try it you'll be surprised. For me it's just a chance to work longer until it's really comfortable over time and less aggressive on the articulations.
I use to use one when I started, but I do not like the feel. It gives no feedback and takes more work for the same force. There are a few people that like them though. Not many but a few.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Yeah it's really a personal feel. Everyone get different taste on it.
I put to much pressure when I sharpen. I use whetstones because it was cheap and found a good deal. Softened skin and iron is not fun as I’ve cut my finger tips plenty of times on the dull edges. It’s like welding, I grip the nozzle/stinger to hard. Not sure why but I’ve been getting more conscious of it. Would help if I wasn’t enjoying a brew while doing it most likely, or good music.
Yeah I've never thought about angles, all I care is if it cuts easily and for how long
I have most of my chisels at 30 degrees except 1 set of Japanese chisels I’m experimenting with 25 and all mortise chisels at 35. All bevel down planes at 30, 1 bevel up blade at 45, 1 at 40, rest at 30.
Ok James l"ll promise to Rex krueger out @25 degrees. Except for one bench chisel I have ground @ 17 degrees. All soft 🪵 is easier to chisel at 17 degrees. A Rob Cosman tip that works great.
Excellent tips, James! Thanks! 😃
But yeah, whoever says sqrt(-4) isn't equal to 2... Is a person without imagination. 😬
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I will try 90° next time in the shop :)
"Strop making sense" David Byrne
good job
Love the shirt James! What should an auger bit be sharpened to in terms of a low, medium or high angle?
Those are usually keep it a pretty high angle. Something around 35 or 40°.
25° ... got it. 🤔😉🙃
I would love to see you try out natural sharpening stones. I have never felt an edge that was sharper straight off the stone, I strop on a bare leather strop to really pop some hairs.
I used to use them quite a bit in the past. They are the most enjoyable method of Zen sharpening. But they're a little less efficient and I don't find as much fun in Zen sharpening. As to sharpness it has nothing to do with the stone you use. You can get the same edge with dozens of different techniques. It all comes down to the feel of actually doing the sharpening.
An abrasive is an abrasive is an abrasive. The material makes no difference to the edge achieved.
I usually sharpen at around a 1:2 slope, that works out to 27.something°. If you want 30° you go two up along the tool and hold that spot one above the stone. Sometimes I wish people would talk angles in ratios instead of degrees like it is done for dovetails (7°dovetails anyone?).
If you use a big enough mallet the chisels never get dull.
Sounds exactly like something my Dad would say. That is also why I am still grinding back his chisels which all have crazy bevels and chips on the edges. Has they not been my fathers, I probably would had chucked them.
Great vid! Did you make that gouge roll or buy it?
Here you go. th-cam.com/video/VY5mRRkyQu8/w-d-xo.html
Thanks James, some people have a complete fetish about angle's/systems. I do however believe in a sharp tool , so whatever works for you personally.
Interesting thanks :) Random suggestion for a video which I don't think you've done yet, sharpening method on a plane iron (up to different grits and including or excluding stropping) against instantaneous sharpness and after a reasonable amount of use. Personally I'd do it at a set angle rather than trying to get a 2D array of results. If you have done it, sorry for missing the video and I'll go watch it :)
Sorry I am not seeing what you are asking. are you asking for how to sharpen a plane iron or testing edge retention?
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Sorry for not being clear enough. Basically testing edge retention but also seeing how quickly the sharpness of an edge tends to the same value. I was thinking of generating a plot with y axis - sharpness, x-axis number of meters of shavings taken and various data sets of different grits the iron has been sharpened to, with and without stropping. There's lots of possible extras that could be included, for example whether every so often you remove the iron, strop it again and then continue, I realise that doesn't really apply to plane irons but it obviously does to chisels and as you've said before they're basically the same thing. Anyway it was just a random wonderings, I expect you've got better things to get on with!
I use the angle that cuts the wood 👍
Rewatching this a year later: could you put a back bevel on a bevel up plane to get a more durable edge while keeping the cutting angle low?
E.g. for a bed angle of 12°, backbevel of 7° (for a 5° clearance) main bevel of 20° would give a 27° angle on the iron and a cutting angle of 32°.
You could but that would be a lot of work and would probably cost more time than the more durable edge would save.
Waaaaaaiiiiit! You can’t be done?!?!… What about back bevels and Charles Worth an his ruler and bench grinders…. nevermind, I have things to do in the shop.
By the way, that shirt is literally my favorite because their are so many who have no “i”dea what it means.
I used to have a shirt with Maxwell’s Equations on it. I always knew when I walked passed another EE. They would smile, or shake their head, or point and snicker. Nothing better than the geeky inside joke.
I love a good math or science joke.
which angle I sharpen to ? the sharp one.
where did you get that fantastic t-shirt?
🤦🏼♂️Micheal and Gabriel 😂😂😂
Great video. I have spent many, many hours agonizing over getting a bevel angle down from 30-35° down to 25°. It's a lot of work. I keep hoping there is a faster way to reduce the angle, but to no avail. I will say that I've had much sharper tools after getting a good honing jig rather than trying to freehand--as much as I prefer the idea of freehanding, I have a nasty tendency to be extremely variable on where I'm holding my wrist.
Freehand just takes time and practice. Stick with it. You'll get there. :)
The fastest way to get down is either with a bench grinder or just going to a much coarser grit. Usually I will go with a 30 or 50 grit sandpaper and grind it down to the right shape.
If you don’t mind me asking, I don’t understand: do you keep buying tools with 35º bevels? Surely you must be finished at some point. Is there no end in sight?
As for freehand sharpening, I have decided long ago to not get bullied into it. I also like the idea, but I like square edges and evenly sharpened irons more - and I don’t spend every waking hour woodworking, so I’m unlikely to get there freehand. I’ll keep using a guide, it’s fine. Actually quite annoying to be told to keep practicing - no thanks, I chose woodworking as a hobby, not sharpening.
Comment down below
42! Oh, wait, that number is taken…
Does anyone else see two birds in the thumbnail? 😂
Just set a bevel gauge on the bench that is set to 30 degrees and hone at it. I hone my block planes using a different hand position to yield me a 25 degree angle. I try me best to keep my bevels flat and within a degree or two of what I want.
First, yay!
WOOT WOOT you are my favorite person of the day!
I would like to see a chart (or rudimentary spreadsheet) of the angles you have on each tool...thanks
I agree completely that it doesn't really matter but I also have a few specially ground tools that makes life easier rob cosman has a video that he ground a chisel to I think 17° just for pine as its soft and is more likely to compress he doesn't use it for anything else I don't work with pine or any soft wood really so I haven't tried this yet it's hard to get clients to go with soft wood in a professional setting
25.... that's it, you're all wrong...
I thought at 1 point you switched to a 35ﾟ on your chisels?
I have played with them at different angles.
I find this video really puzzling. Do real mathematicians think negative numbers have square roots, and if so is your t shirt the right answer. I’m so stupid I can’t work it out, and I can’t remember what angle to sharpen at so my Worksharp is permanently set at 25 degrees except I like 20 degrees for my chisels and god knows what for bevel up home made planes. I can’t do freehand sharpening as my muscles have no memory. It’s all stuck in my brain.