Doctor Who: Empire Of Death Review (Ups & Downs)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- It's time for the grand finale, but can Doctor Who end this season on a high? Here's Ellie with our review of Empire of Death!
For more awesome content, check out: whatculture.co...
Follow us on Instagram: / whoculture
Catch us on Twitter: / whoculture
#DoctorWho #Season1 #EmpireOfDeath #Review - บันเทิง
More videos breaking down Empire of Death!
Easter Eggs PART 2 (Memory TARDIS): th-cam.com/video/JX5dRlOUho8/w-d-xo.html
Easter Eggs PART 1: th-cam.com/video/AEaqqfNqUcM/w-d-xo.html
Spoiler discussion: th-cam.com/video/kWFV84UQaqk/w-d-xo.html
One thing I absolutely hated was Ruby's switch to calling her bio mum her "real mum", out of all the adopted people I've talked to, they always see the people who raised them, who took them in as their "real" parents. It just felt a bit tasteless.
Yes. That made me wince.
Amen. I'm a brother to 2 fost/adopt sisters and that really rankled me.
Can’t agree more! Why does RTD take care with many different types of lives but uses this issue for a cheap moment
im adopted and honestly i dont think theres much difference between referring your biological mum and real mum
It's not tasteless, it's derogatory and insulting.
To be fair to Sutekh, he didn’t really do much in Pyramids either. He just sat in a chair for 90mins then lost.
Like, "I'm free!!!!" To get knocked back down again like I think he said two minutes later
I recently watched pyramids of mars and I love the repeated fact that the doctor keeps telling Sarah that sutekh will DESTROY THE WORLD ENTIRELY. And then he just goes back into his coffin after celebrating. I was so disappointed. I wished we got AT LEAST one extra episode of defeating him.
Nice to know the Doctor was able to bring Davros back.
People who think they're gods assume they don't have to do anything.
Sutekh's own fault. If he was free why go to Britain? He could have just destroyed Earth from Egypt. No need to even enter a time space tunnel. Leave the tomb the way Marcus came in.
There was more then a couple plot points for ruby’s story,
•Why does it snow
•Why does it play the song
•Why has no one in ruby’s family weither that be her mum dad cousins uncles grandparents have never donated blood or had there dna in a data base
•Sutekh is interested in a basic human when he is on a Time Machine
•The bs of her mum pointing at the ruby road sign when no one was looking
•Why did the memory change
•Why did maestro say ruby was very wrong when she was a normal human
Just doesn’t make any sense
Easy, they weren't worshiping Sutekh, they were worshiping the all conquering Disney...
BECAUSE SALT
@@G_Fresh_UK_Extra It's not Disney. RTD always wrote like that, we were just kids back then.
It's all Sutekh. He got interested in the Christmas special, because the Doctor got interested, and Sutekh was already powerful enough to kling on and watch. So basically he didn't get the situation being attached to the Tardis, and the whole situation shook the Doctor so much that Sutekh got interested in it as well. It's a very Pratchett thing where if enough people start believing that something is important, than it actually becomes important even if it wasn't. Sutekh didn't get the situation and thought it was important - so it became important and even acquired some of his powers. The snow is Sutekh thinking about this, the song is too, Maestro says Ruby is wrong because she's literally oozing Sutekh's power when she thinks about her mom. The mom didn't point to the sign, Sutekh changed the memory trying to look at her, and I think she pointed at Sutekh, not the sign. Basically, he turned two very ordinary women into something magical just because he's a being of great power who got focused on them more than anyone would need to.
@@levindeed That would make it all make much more sense. I wish they had found a way to recap this because the ending was kind of a letdown since those questions were never actually answered. I think I will choose to see it your way now, though. So... go help them write the next season! LOL.
Sutekh when Amy and Rory were bonking on the TARDIS: 👀
😂😂😂😂😂
But was Sutekh dressed like Superman whilst he was watching them?
@@jumpcutfilms1958 Or when Amy tried to seduce the Doctor…
@@skinnysnorlax9356 had to, how else??
😂😂😂
They really need to make the seasons longer for Doctor Who. If we had more time with them, the parting scene would have hit more.
These wouldn't be. And they should be longer.
My one criticism. We didn’t get enough time to explore the Doctor and Ruby relationship. Barely got to know her.
I actually dont agree here, only because we know they have already filmed season 2 and Ruby is involved so even them saying goodbyw after like 12 episodes means nothing we know she is coming back
@@mattwho81 Same
@@jdgjagerbomber9430 Yeah, but that's not the question. The question is: Do we CARE that she's coming back?
Cause frankly, I don't. I haven't been able to get to know the character enough to invest in them, let alone care about them. To put it in perspective, by this time in 11's era, we already met Amy, knew she was running from her wedding and were only just meeting Rory at this point - yet I still cared far more for those two than I do for Ruby or her family drama. Who doesn't work without audience investment and for that investment, time is required.
The reason why those loose ends you mentioned with Ruby are still there, is because they mishandled the story with her mom. Her mom being a normal woman would work if it wasn't tied to all the supernatural stuff. But Maestro literally said Ruby had some kind of power. The show was hyping it up SO MUCH. And then nothing came from it because her parentage is normal... They were trying to do something really sweet and meaningful with her mom, and ended up shooting themselves in the foot because of the other mystery boxes they already set up. It was infuriating and gets more infuriating on a rewatch.
@Thief555WWJD: Well I think RTD was going to add to those 'setup boxes' with some big stuff, but failed.. studio pressure or just wimped out??
Those - and other - loose ends are still there, because there's a season two.
You misunderstand - the salt did it!
This is a false flag I feel. Rubys parents aren't really rubys parents. It's another trick I hope by Russell t Davies and all will be revealed in the next series
@@Sammelwuetiger i hope you're right. Im not convinced though. Ruby's not the main companion next season.
I love how Kate just gives a job to everybody she meets. Would be interested in seeing UNITs payroll.
its mentioned in the giggle i think when donna asks what the pay is i think its 50k then donna asked for 100k and got 2 weeks holiday as well
@@josephjoseph6669I think they meant the list of everyone they pay
Yeah. She literally recruited the Harbinger.
I hear their munitions guy is the paperboy who gave her a Christmas card one year.
Kate: We only let certain people into UNIT, to protect ourselves from anyone who could be dangerous.
Also Kate: You were literally created by the God of Death as a Harbinger with the power to kill people. Want a job?
My issue isn't with Ruby's mother being a "nobody" but the fact that everything they did to hint at Ruby's origin made it seem like she must be important. You touched on why it always snowed, but you also have everything The Maestro said about her and how she was "wrong". Not to mention the dramatic finger point from Ruby's mother not being to The Doctor or that she saw Sutekh around the Tardis, but she was just pointing at a street sign? Come on, there's the fans assuming a character is more important than they are and then there's them sending us down in a completely wrong direction.
I do say I did like Ruby and The Doctor's goodbye. Honestly it's just refreshing to have a companion not die and also just leave on good terms with The Doctor.
Remember REY of STAR WARS had a similar thing happen,,, But it was not true
Literally the last 4 companions didn't die (more if you count Donna). Plus Martha and even rose. It was only Moffat who actually killed off/ made sure the doctor could never see his companions again
@@kevcatnip7589 Rey’s ordinary origin was meant to reinforce a point about the larger tapestry of Star Wars aka the broom kid. Anyone can be the hero/Luke of the story.
Maybe the reason Ruby's special isn't her mother...but her father!
It's because of the salt! Because they believed in the mystery!
I think the people who became acolytes of Sutekh should’ve stayed dead since they didn’t die to the death cloud. If that means killing Mel off then so be it. It would’ve hit so much harder WITH consequences
I agree. It sucks, but you're right.
I agree the lack of long term consequences and the fact that you know dead main characters are just going to pop back to life nowadays isn't good, however, I don't agree that the acolytes should have stayed dead. They state clearly that they have a 'half-life' (which I assume doesn't have anything to do with radioisotopes), so Sutekh's power very much did affect them, and arguably half killed them. I guess there's the possibility of them being trapped in the half-life state, or the argument that Sutekh was keeping them alive, so therefore with him gone they should collapse, but that then negates the 'bringing death to death' thing that the Doctor came up with (which I didn't particularly like btw and felt like the usual Russell T plot contrivance to finish a story arc).
Incidentally, if he 'brought death to death', doesn't that mean all the people should now be immortal, like Captain Jack?
@robertwareham8466 I kind of wondered what happened to Captain Jack during the dusting. Did he dust out and reform? And did he do it over and over. I bet it wouldn't have been pleasant.
Exactly! All the Susans were avatars for Sutekh like Henry/Harriet Arbinger so they should have died at the end. It was shown that all the avatars/puppets/acolytes were essentially an undead state & 15 even stated that when he felt Mel's hand, it was cold with death so she was effectively dead too so that means she should not have been able to be brought back.
RTD has shown in the past that he starts finales well, but has trouble sticking the landing with two part ones & unfortunately this is another case of it.
@@winstonpapstein6871 They weren't avatars (i.e. parts of Sutekh himself), at least not as far as it was stated. They were human heralds. Subtle distinction, but important in the context of your comment, I think.
Everyone that was dusted was dead and was brought back, why wouldn't that apply to the harbingers? That was the whole point of 'bringing death to death'.
When Kate turned to dust, the "deaths" lost all significance to me because I knew they would all be brought back.
Yeah. They gave the "There'll be an "Endgame" before the episode ends" away real early.
Better to have shown the bridge crew fleeing and fighting their way through the Tower, being picked off one at a time. With, of course, Kate and Rose going last.
As soon as I saw the important ppl die I knew there was going to be a reset button which robbed it of all impact , import and consequence
I was so happy, hoping she would stay dead!!! I loathe Kate!
Kate could have dies, but not Carla. That was when I knew. Never Carla
@@freddiecoombes2065 yeah, that was the moment for me as well, i felt it when it was Kate, but once it reached Carla i knew they would all be back
I gave up a daughter for adoption. We found each other almost 2 years ago. I totally understand Ruby and her mother being scared of rejection. We cried and bonded over the phone. I have a younger daughter who I raised. We are all going to be together for the first time in October. I haven't seen my daughter since she was 2 days old in 1971. I was so afraid I would die and never know what happened to her. Finding her has been one of the greatest joys of my life.
I speak for all of us when saying this: We wish you and your daughter the best and hope you manage to bond and enjoy each other’s company❤❤
That's amazing. All the best to you all and hope the meeting goes well. :)
What a beautiful ending to a long and heartwrenching story.
Wishing you all so much joy and happiness as you enter the new and happy chapter of your lives ❤️❤️❤️
🙏🙏 Brilliant. 😊
@@dkimuk Thank you. And to everyone's kind wishes. We have bonded remarkably. I would add that I did not want to give her up. I was caught up in an adoption scam being run by people at Family Services and the Catholic Church. Some of them went to jail. I could have petitioned the court to get her back. But she was 3 years old and her adoptive parents were the only Mommy and Daddy she knew. I couldn't rip her away from that. It meant decades of pain and worry but I know now, without doubt, it was the right thing for her. She is an amazing woman and we have so much in common. I am making her a photo album of all her family back to her great grandparents. I am having a friend who is a professional photographer take some pictures of us and we all get copies. I'm getting old and she lives far away, this may be our only chance to do this.
You're 15, just had a baby and your terrified. I don't think you spend much time looking for security cameras so you can walk away, stand and dramaticly point at a sign. These are the elements that are hard to explain away when we all try to pretend RTD is a genius.
There are a lot elements that you cant explain away. 63yards, maestro, snow, carol singers...
That whole resolution seems to be a fake one from unkt to contain ruby on earth, cause her true identity is to dangerous to let her know.
@@td4068 Good point. I'd love it if Unit was controlling this but then I'd have hoped the Doctor would have questioned it too.
@@td4068 Nice head cannon, but UNIT has never been that competent on the show.
I thought it was because she saw the Doctor, being as he was the only one around maybe the pointing was to tell him that her name was Ruby 🤷♂️
@@tanepukenga1421 new doctor, new rules. Maybe ots also mainly a plan from the doctor. Bit it is too lazy, too obviously bad to be the truth.
12th Doctor: “Listen. Question. Why do we talk out loud when we know we're alone? Conjecture. Because we know we're not. It could be with us every second and we would never know. How would you detect it, even sense it, except in those moments when, for no clear reason you choose to speak aloud? What would such a creature want? What would it do? Well? What would you do?”
was that just Sutekh having some shits and giggles
Oooo me likey!
Fefe, you're a whovian???????
Huh, was not expecting to find you here😂
I would counter the Doctor's theory with this: why don't we think aloud when we're not alone - because people will think we're crazy! We need to wait until we are sure we are alone in order to think out loud! Also it would be kind of rude because when you are in company everyone else has their own internal thought processes so by thinking aloud you're interrupting theirs!
Can you imagine the exchange: "who are you talking to?"
"Just thinking out loud"
"Well can you not please? I am trying to think in my head and I can't hear myseld think in my head with you thinking out loud right next to me!" It would be like the mental equivalent of a ghetto blaster, inflicting other people with your music without considering that maybe they have music of their own.
When you're about 5 years old your parents have to tell you "read in your head" because otherwise they would have to listen to the back of every cereal box, Disney annual and sleeve notes to the Muppets album your voracious juvenile eyes alight upon. Being alone is the only time you are free to talk to yourself. Not because we secretly think someone is there, but because we know that no one is there.
I have to disagree that he knows his audience (at least when it comes to this finale) - at it's heart - Doctor Who is Sci-Fi. I absolutely loved this season - up until the resolution. Who wants ordinary? We already had a very important ordinary woman with Donna. This season was supposed to be about 'fantasy' and the 'supernatural'. What about the snow? How can Ruby literally summon snow by a memory from when she was what, a day old? Why was a 15 year old girl wearing a thick dark cloak resembling The Trickster? How did she evade detection and skip in the time-window? Why was her face blurred "like shadow'? How did she literally change the memory, change time? The power of belief can not answer those questions. - I really do have to disagree with you Ellie when you said "We were the ones digging" - we were digging because they led us in that direction, it wasn't unwarranted - it wasn't like they didn't imply there was something going on - we only dug because they essentially led us to do so
I respect RTD, but what he did was lead us in every single possible direction so that we wouldn't expect the true answer, which was because it was the most boring answer of them all - she was just ordinary. For me this is kind of feels like he's playing games with us, yes RTD - you won, you got us. But you also left us entirely underwhelmed and dissapointed - all for the sake of you winning. I would have been happy with literally any other resolution - anything.
I like the idea that allthat stuff is faked by Unit to contain ruby on earth. Because letting her know the truth is tooo dangerous
@@td4068 I really do hope there’s more to it
Couldn't have said it better!
Again... It seems we're missing very probable Iris Wildthyme connections that could explain so much including the meddling with all of this and UNIT too. Wouldn't surprise me if Mrs. Flood pops her suitcase onto a double Decker Omnibus.
I think it will be picked up n the next season
I'm tentatively okay with ruby's mother being an ordinary woman... but that can't be all there is to ruby's story. The snow and the song that followed her around, the maestro being terrified of her, the entire 73 yards episode, there is so much that points to something about ruby being abnormal. Apparently her mother was a red herring, but there's got to be something! I really hope that her story isn't over, because this is not the proper way to subvert expectations.
I love how the solution felt a bit less like "take the dog for a walk" and more akin to "tie the dog to the bumper of the car and drive 100mph down the highway actively hitting every pothole you can see before finally cutting it loose" XD
Do you think RTD got his inspiration from Mitt Romney?
thats how I spent my Thursday night
Barbara Woodhouse would not have approved.
I totally thought sutekh was supposed to be a bat not a dog 😂 in fairness his nose looks more like a donkey or horse than a dog. But the teeth were also wrong for a donkey so I thought maybe bat 🤷♀️
And with the uk states of roads it won't take that long. Bad doggie
"Nobody important! Blimey, that's amazing! Do you know in 900 years of Time and Space I've never met anyone who wasn't important before!" - The 11th Doctor
Ordinary people are important, I agree.
That's also the point of this episode, every ordinary people are important
Exactly. So many complaints about Ruby just being Ruby and her mother just being a young scared unwed mother. Ordinary people are also important.
9 said something similar too in the fathers day episode. It's such a long running theme of who, I enjoyed that aspect. I only wish we'd spent more time having the doctor's interest in ruby's mother really ramp up across the season. 😊
That is one of my favorite lines in all of new Who. Maybe in anything.
Everyone seems to keep ignoring the fact that the very first thing the doctor did was kill the goblin King. So that whole I don't kill anybody rings a little bit hollow to me.
Yeah, I always side-eye when people talk about the Doctor not killing anyone. Because, he does rather often in the show's history.
I know it hasn't been planned all this time, but in "Rose" the guy that rose speaks to says doctor has 1 constant companion (death), which is a cool coincidence to think about
Oh! Another thing! In the Big Bang, we find out that all the Doctor's enemies have banded together to defeat him because the TARDIS would end the universe.
At the time, it was because the TARDIS exploded. But with the god of death literally clinging to the TARDIS, it suddenly has a different possible explanation. Especially, since in this Post Sutekh universe, even the Daleks were erased.
@@shiaras4675 yet due to what happened at the end, the Daleks are alive again, not a huge fan of this doctor, I am hoping the next one is as nuts as Matt Smith's
@@10tailedbijuu If the undusting brings back the Daleks, it also brings back the Time Lords
Brilliant both metaphorically and literally. It would also explain why the doctor loses so many people despite his best intentions and efforts.
It wouldn't bring back time lords because they were already dead. It only brought back people killed by Sutekhs dust @@theweekinmetal
I think Ruby's ending is an in-universe fakeout engineered by the Doctor and/or UNIT to stop her from searching for the truth. She's SOMETHING other than an ordinary human, and her true form is scary and hidden by a perception filter. Think about it: In 73 Yards the spectre of her old self follows her at the exact limit of a perception filter. She directs certain people to LOOK at Ruby from just out of perception filter range, and they are IMMEDIATELY terrified of her.
I think you should take over as head writer, because that makes more sense to me than this whole season.
I reallllllyyyy need this to be how they want it to go! Like have the Xmas special start with the doctor at unit watching ruby seeing that she is content and by the end of season 2 Ruby is the villain that the doctor must face
@@doritofan1002ı don't think that's going to happpen cause that's lazy writing
Wow, that makes a lot scence 😮
This was an amazing theory, mainly because it tied up the 73 Yards episode. Honestly still don’t understand that episode guys 😅
Downs for me:
- Ruby's mom pointing with a non-human looking hand at a sign post to name Ruby, even though nobody saw her or would know that was her intention.
- Also Ruby's mom perplexing Sutek so deeply because she was "unknown" by someone who wanted to know who she was... That could stand for any unsolved murder or serial killer who hasn't been identified; still doesn't really give any "bigger than life" mystery for her Ruby's mom was.
- A rope with an open hook on each end was able to pull the god of death through all of space and time. I guess all the budget poured into the CGI instead of taking 2 seconds to at least tie a knot.
- "When you meet your maker, tell him blah blah blah" gets dusted, gets undusted, oooh happy hugs, forget the cryptic last words.
The first 10 minutes of this episode felt like it should've been the last 10 minutes of the last episode, and then give this episode some extra runtime. Everything I was watching felt "yes this makes sense but they're doing it very quick"
They definitely should've ended Part 1 with the death dust. Part 2 should've started months later with the Doctor destitute and trying to figure out a solution.
@@MatadorMedia I can't help but wonder if they declined to do that because it would've felt even like 100x MORE like "Infinity War" than it already did
Also, UNIT should've been seen somewhat containing Sutekh's dust. Like the dust destroys organic matter but seems to be stopped by physical barriers, so there's at least some things UNIT could've done, and if they then resolved the issue not with a big reset button but in a more tangible way it could've given real weight to the episode. Also Sutekh clinging to the tardis is not only a complete misunderstanding by Russel of the ending of Pyramids Of Mars, it's also a pandora's box of continuity problems with tons of things that no longer make sense, like Captain Jack clinging to the Tardis, the bigenerated tardis and the Big Bang 2
I'm pretty sure the Christmas special will be revealing Mrs Flood as the 5th member of east 17 and will have her singing stay another day to the doctor.
Pleeeease no more musicals.
I doubt it. Moffett is doing the Christmas special. Davies will keep Ms Flood for himself
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Headcanon accepted
If this doesn’t happen then I will eat my party popping paper pores
I’m sorry, but I would have to down the Doctor’s “Now I must become a monster.” Eli says he takes no joy in killing and he’s the man who “never would.” He’s the man who would never fire a gun at an enemy, but he absolutely has no issue killing his enemies. Off the top of my head, The Racknoss in the runaway bride with all the Racknoss babies he drowns, by using the queen of the Racknoss’s own bombs to cause the flood, Ten’s first ever debut where he gives the alien guy a chance to leave and the guy turns to attack him and he flings the fruit at the button and sends the alien guy plummeting to his doom, “No second chances, I’m that sort of man.” Eleven right before the battle of Demon’s Run, when Rory comes in and says he has a question and a message from the doctor, and when the cyber men ask what the Doctor’s Message is, you see all the other Cyber Ships blowing up in the background. Eleven tricking the wooden cyber man on trenzalor to turn his own flame thrower on itself. That used to be a person. And even 12 when he tells the killy people who are going to execute Missy to look up his name in the fatality index and he says, “Under “Cause of.”” And the number just keeps ticking up faster and faster and he does clarify for the killy guy that he often stands alone and is never armed. Those are all just off the top of my head, different incarnations, same morals, but definitely not a man who is afraid of killing. Sure, 15 can be more upset about it, but at the same time all he’s done is be upset by stuff all this season. In fact, most of the issues this season were not directly solved by him, he had to stand around while other’s fixed the issue. Sure he may have come up with the solution, but most times other people did the legwork. So, making him overly emotional, not really do much to solve the problems, AND then making him seem like killing the God of Death makes him think he’s a monster, sorry, but it’s hard to buy. Massive down for me.
Also, I definitely disagree with the revelation of Ruby’s mother being a regular person. There should be ZERO reason for her to be able to skip past people on the tape, for Ruby to have a “song placed in her” and for Ruby to be able to make it snow if Ruby’s mother doesn’t have SOMETHING special about her. None of that stuff about Ruby makes ANY sense if her mother isn’t…SOMEONE! It doesn’t even have to be a character we’ve met before. It could turn out to be a brand new character, who the doctor has to chase after. Leave the revelation that the father is normal and she finds her father, but have the Doctor have to go chase down this new character for answers even without Ruby because of how powerful they are. Also, the woman pointing at the sign “naming” Ruby. Why did she do that AFTER abandoning Ruby? More importantly, how is that her NAMING her AFTER she left Ruby on the doorstep of the church? Did she go back and be like, “oh, by the way, her name is Ruby?” Also, in the time window, she doesn’t just walk out of view, she straight up vanishes, with not even a distortion effect, she just straight up vanishes. I’m PRAYING that the doctor means it when he says he’ll see Ruby again so it can turn out that Ruby’s mother, like Mrs. Flood, is some sort of villain in waiting. Otherwise, nothing about Ruby’s “powers” make any form of sense. She can’t be a regular human if the song in her can fend off a god like being AND she can make it snow. So many plot holes just left open for us to drive through.
Okay, my bad, I wrote this second comment before finishing the video and hearing what Eli had to say about it. She brings up many of the same points. But no Eli, we never got an explanation for any of that, and that’s why it is unsatisfying.
@@KokuroSameLuckily RDT has confirmed that Millie Gibson is coming back and he's not finished with the family story. I gotta agree though on both points, I thought the same thing. Maybe THIS Doctor specifically doesn't kill, but The Doctor definitely has, quite a lot in the past. And a good ammount of the time he doesn't even seem particularly affected by it. Sure he never executes, or kills in cold blood, and he'll always try to find an alternative way. But killing out of necessity, which it was with Sutekh, he's done hundreds if times. The who Ruby's mother being a regular person thing could've worked if they hadn't added the supernatural stuff that Ruby can do. Like, no RTD, "we believed in her" does not explain why Ruby can freeze time and make snow appear out of nowhere
Let's not forget he made the pyroviles extinct and blew up pompeii
Saying that Ruby was important because people thought she was doesn't work against the way the series was written to build her up. It's like they didn't know where to go with it so just shrugged it off. Honestly a huge letdown.
I think Mrs. Flood is one of the gods of the Pantheon who has hidden herself away on Earth, perhaps because she doesn't want anything to do with the other gods. The way she keeps breaking the fourth wall and addressing the audience makes me think she might be the God of Stories.
That outfit at the end was very Romana I though.
@@UKProgRock I would be very, very surprised if she turned out to be Romana!
I’ve just had a thought about the Tales of the TARDIS episodes, what if each one is important for the current era, we know Pyramids was included for Sutekh, but what if the others have meaning too, The Time Meddler being about not changing the past (the Doctor couldn’t go back to Ruby Road because he would alter the past too much), The Mind Robber would be about the story of Ruby Sunday and the Doctor (or maybe Mrs Flood), The Three Doctors showing how the Doctor has worn many faces over the years, Earthshock is about the Doctor losing companions and having to still go on, Vengeance on Varos is another one about stories and politics and finally Curse of Fenric is about another God who the Doctor has had to defeat in the past.
Maybe Mrs Flood ties into each of these stories in some way?
@@NicholasKaufmann Mrs flood didn't recognise the Tardis when it was on the sidewalk until it de materialised. Anyone who has ever met the doctor before will recognise the Tardis.
I don't think she's part of the pantheon (infact Davis has explicitly said she's not part of sutekh) but I think she I a god, like maestro she breaks the fourth wall which made me think that must be a thing gods do.
Who Culture gives every episode about 75-80% ups, except occasionally when they give like 95% ups. Has there ever been an episode that they gave a negative review? If we disagreed about an episode I'd say they had a different opinion. But if they consistently like every single episode it feels less like an organic disagreement than a company strategy. Often they do this by pointing out a negative but not giving it a down, or pointing out a single positive but finding a way to give it three ups. I feel like they could be a little more genuine and discerning without being toxically negative.
The amount of ups they gave this episode was honestly...baffling? Like, I get that's subjective, but still.
I guess we have to look at who pays Ellie for these episodes....
@@karenhenderson4546 Going up the ladder WhoCulture is owned by WhatCulture, Future Publishing, Future Plc, the shareholders of the New York Stock Exchange. Asking questions is a good thing, but there are a lot of wacky conspiracy theories out there today and it isn't good for us as a culture. The BBC isn't paying Ellie. That's not how real companies operate for a lot of reasons. I just think this is reflective of how WhoCulture or WhatCulture want to position themselves as a brand.
They rinsed Space Babies and Dot and Bubble... this one was way too positive though- hated the finale.
@@MS-ru5gp Giving 18 ups to 5 downs like they did for Space Babies or even 12 ups to 6 downs like they did for Dot and Bubble doesn't really count as rinsing. That's a positive review with some reservations.
I think ever since The Doctor realized he was effectively adopted by the Time Lords, he's justified not pursuing answers about who left him as a baby by telling himself they probably don't want him to come and find them. So he extended that same logic to Ruby's mother, only to be fully proven wrong. I took those shots of him being contemplative outside the coffee shop not as a reflection about reuniting with Susan, but with where he actually originally came from.
Oh I had the exact same thought. If RTD just revealed Doctors parentage it would effectively ruin the show and take away all mystery. But using ruby as a simulacrum for the Doctors situation so that the audience can infer that something similar happened to him and he is probably in a much better situation now is very sweet. I found that aspect to be satisfying.
I interpreted this the same way. Like almost sadness that he doesn’t know where he really came from but also maybe he could find out. I would like to find out because I love the mystery but I don’t like mysteries that don’t come to a resolution at some point. Doesn’t have to be now or next season, but sometime I want them to explore it.
@@bennettnez4711 "it would effectively ruin the show", kind of like the name of the doctor, or the timeless child. i think this season has convinced me that Doctor Who could survive that reveal too
@@Happymama12it would just ruin the show. I viewed it as him realizing he is probably better off. There is a reason that George Lucas never wanted to reveal Yodas species, home planet, or back story and its because it makes him intriguing. They both get points for being enigmatic
@@MichaelP833 no. In the name of the Doctor, his name wasn't even kind of revealed. It only increased the mystery. Timeless child, you have more ground on, but they specifically built in the mystery of them being an orphan so... no neither of those are even remotely similar to explicitly stating the doctors parentage. At all.
The issue with the show and RTD basically taking a shot at the fandom as far as Ruby's mother goes isn't the fact that the fans made her out to be more important than she actually was. There's a definite feeling that is what's happening when the Doctor talks about "she's important because we made her important." It feels like a very meta statement. We didn't inflate her importance out of nothing - RTD all throughout the season was in effect pointing at her and saying "look at her, look how crucial she is to everything." Many times fandoms do that - assigning importance to things that aren't - but in this case, RTD is the one that kept dropping breadcrumbs that all led back to her identity being crucial and then in the end, she was literally no one. It was a completely empty mystery box. It would be the same thing if Mrs. Flood is revealed to be no one of any importance or recognition (I don't think this is going to happen but it's just an example).
You are absolutely correct. From the anachronistic cloak, the specific callouts to something being odd about Ruby in the Devil’s chord, the snow, the entire episode about discovering who her mother is, the ambulance not telling who the mother was. Every point in this season built up that there was something peculiar about Ruby and her mother. That was not the fan’s speculating wildly.
This reminded me of the third Star Wars trilogy with Rey. With Kylo being Solo's son, the fandom latched on to the parentage of Rey, only to have the second movie say in the second movie that her parents were not important, That whole movie was a slap-down basically saying that the fans were reading too much into small details. Back to Doctor Who. I think I can be okay that the mother specifically does not need to be something larger than life, and do actually like that the two are reconnected in a positive way. That being said, Ruby is definitely special in a way that has been hammered home to the fan base, with the goodbye scene and Mrs Flood's apparent happy ending declaration for Ruby's extended family, the reason why Ruby is special being a very big loose end doesn't sit well with me. Then again, I am still annoyed that the watermelon was not explained in Buckaroo Banzai.
But he never said that the IDENTITY of Ruby's mother is important, he said the the MYSTERY of who Ruby's mother is is important, and it was. So much happened because Ruby and the Doctor and Sutekh wanted to solve the mystery, NOT because the mother was powerful. The snow and the song were never because Ruby or her mother were powerful. Its not like Ruby spend her whole life making it snow and hearing Carol of the Bells every time she thought about where she came from. It only started happening AFTER the Goblins went back to abduct her and the Doctor followed, landing himself, his time machine and a very nosy ancient God, and STILL didn't see who she was
@@DarkSmurf67Fun fact: RTD specifically cited The Last Jedi and its resolution of the mystery of Rey’s parentage as inspiration for the plot point of Ruby’s mother and father being exquisitely normal people!!
I would argue that he executed that idea much better than TLJ did (a movie I otherwise still enjoy) simply because Doctor Who’s overarching dramatic themes & identity aren’t so tightly bound to one particular character’s family the way that Star Wars’s dramatic themes & identity up to that point was to the Skywalker family and their intergenerational struggles, so Ruby’s parents being some perfectly normal folks wasn’t as big of a narrative whiplash as Rey’s parents *seemingly* being a couple of deadbeat boozebags not named Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade/Mr. and Mrs. Kenobi-Kryze/Jar-Jar’s bastard son and Max Rebo’s niece/blah blah blah?
The entire season was made before the audience saw a single scene with Ruby. Nothing in this finale was Davies poking at the audience. I took it as dig at Rise of Skywalker.
Ruby's mother being some random person was unforgivable to me. We believed she was important because the writers literally told us she was. To then say "nah, she was only important because you thought she was" was pretty condescending. And Rubys vague superhuman snow/music powers make no sense now.
Perhaps we'll learn something helpful about Mr Garnet next season.
I mean, I agree, but also, as @bcd7560 said, just because the mother is supposedly normal doesn't mean Ruby's father is.
Right?! It seemed like such lazy writing! Because it doesn't seem like we're going to get anything more in the christmas special! The only thing that will hopefully carry over is the mystery of mrs flood since we've seen her looking almost marry poppins like at the end
@@christinakohl6111 Ruby is in season 2 tbh so it will carry over soemthing.
@@Yattien89 well then there's at least some hope that it isn't quite the goodbye we've seen but sonething more to come!🤞
Why was she pointing at the sign?!?…There was no one there!!!
She wanted to add to the dramatic effect obviously!
That was the only thing about the finale i just did not like, it felt pointless and didnt answer anything.
@@WhoCulturelol still confusing how the hospital figured out that she pointed there
Well, I think it was a good episode, not perfect but good. I agree with her mum pointing, why? Overall, it's a good episode. I don't think the story is over by far. We just have to wait! It's not helping that we have so few episodes and some things are rushed.
@@WhoCultureweak response.
When I saw Kate and Unit die, I thought that was really powerful, because I thought there was a chance that it was lasting, then when everyone else died i immediately thought, oh it’s meaningless because they’re all gonna come back
It did feel a little that way! Part of me was thinking “wow are they going to start from scratch”. But hope! lol but u do love Mel and Kate so part of me is happy they are back!
That exactly how i felt. I was really sad for kate and everyone but after that i just thought the same as you
Exactly how it felt like on first watch. I thought this could be kate permanently gone and a few moments later wondering what the big reverse every death button was as soon as they showed the big death storm
Yeah the next time they "raise the stakes" the outcome will be even more obvious. Then, there will be "timelines", and no outcome will matter, ever. Marvel all over again.
@@squirreldriver I guess the only solution would be to reverse everything but at a heavy cost but if that cost is a fan favourite character you have trouble not pissing off everyone
If the Doctor would not have cried in every episode, then the ending to this episode would have hit home more.
I didn't care about The Doctor crying in most episodes. There was one where he cried constantly at not much of anything that made me raise an eyebrow, but mostly he's just less repressed than the other incarnations. Presumably because 14 spends a few decades working on himself, and 15 has those memories in spite of their weird bi-generation shenanigans. The fact that 15 has progressed enough in his healing to be able to appreciate small scale personal tragedies and openly express that is a good thing. 10 in particular was incredibly hard and almost mean at times because he was so traumatized. I didn't like that side of 10, but when was he suppose to deal with it? When was he suppose to deal with the Time War and his actions as the War Doctor? As 9? He only existed for a few months before Rose and the Daleks killed him. 10 was a hardass who refused to deal with anything, and couldn't even handle the thought of his own regeneration. He completely freaked out. As 11, when his preordained death was constantly being tossed in his face by everyone he met? As 12? He was basically insane right from the get-go, and never really stabilized. As 13? It seemed like she was going in that direction, but her story ended up with even more death and destruction than the War Doctor's did. Even more trauma. 14 was the first one to settle down and work on himself for a while. To just... pause and deal with his trauma.
So the whole thing makes sense, in theory.
However, yes. Something "hits hard" because it's at least somewhat unexpected. There is a narrative expectation that a character will only lose emotional control when something serious is happening (even though that is not how things work in reality). When you show the character being hyper-emotional in 5 out of 7 preceding episodes, then in episode 8 give him a moment when literally anyone would lose emotional control... well... you've already wrecked it through overexposure. The audience is conditioned to expect that reaction from the character, so the expression of grief and loss doesn't hit home.
This is writing 101. And those basic writing fundamentals have always been RTD's weakness. He's pretty good at "mystery box" writing (much better than JJ Abrams, for instance), but his failure to work on the low level writing fundamentals really comes back to bite him in the ass and causes him to deliver stories that aren't as hard hitting as they could have been.
The doctor, who has lost many friends and companions, seen entire civilizations and worlds saved and destroyed, and saw billions die in the time War, now cries for the slightest reason, multiple times per episode. It doesn't make any sense unless it turns out he really isn't the doctor, but another imposter.
But we know from The Giggle that 15 is purged of the guilt and the pain that the previous incarnations carried with them. So is he not also purged of any numbness or cynicism that goes alongside that? This incarnation cries because he's experiencing pain, guilt and loss for the first time - while at the same time realising that he can't be purged of it, that he's building up again what he thought he was free from.
@@WilliamsAndZinger My comment is not about why he cries a lot. It's about story telling. It would have been more impactful. More meaningful if we hadn't see him cry in 5 of 7 episodes.
If Sutekh was clinging onto the tardis since Pyramids of Mars, does that mean he's hugged John Barrowman on the way to meeting Yana
And did Captain Jack get frisky with Sutekh? 😄
@@mrwittyoneProbably.
“Not this guy again! Yeet him to the end of the universe.”
Yes. Sutekh groped Jack Harkness
My first thought when I saw this part of the episode 😂
In 'Listen' if the 12th doctor had listened a little harder he would have heard Sutekh above him muttering, *sigh* "How long it this going to TAKE!!".
"No one important? That's funny. 900 years in space and time and I have never met someone who isn't important."
my interpretation was that those acolytes weren't servants of Sutekh per se, but that they *were* him. You can see that when acolyte Mel returns to UNIT tower with the Doctor and Ruby, Sutekh is speaking the words for her even though it looks like she's talking to him as if she were a different consciousness. Sutekh wasn't a wet blanket because, as you say, he's powerful without needing to do anything physically.
unless he rushed his return and wasn't as powerful as he claimed to be. i also find it hard to believe the TARDIS herself didn't try to get a few licks in.
all these gods were very arrogant and deceptive, it makes sense to me Sutekh was weakened.
I think you should have given a down to the whole " she was pointing at the road sign to tell you she named the baby Ruby" bit. seemed a tad lazy writing
Especially when there is no-one else around to see what she is pointing at.
I'm fine with Ruby and her mother being ordinary and the concept of ordinary is important but Russell shouldn't have had this major mystery box storyline throughout the entire season making it SEEM like she's extraordinary, that will inevitably lead to disappointment in fan response which it has done. If it was just a story split through the season of Ruby was adopted and wants to know who her mother was without the mysterious cloaked figure, the snow and Carol of the bells etc then the reveal would've had more positive response.
When he was naming off the planets that returned, I seriously thought for a moment that he was going to say Gallifrey.
Yeah I did as well
This should have happened. It would have fixed EVERYTHING. ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING
Same here. Like a slightly panicked or excited "Gallifrey..."
same. i was saying it in my head, also waited for him to say skarro
Was hoping he'd say Raxicoricofallipatorius
Interesting note it snowed with Mrs Flood on the roof so she’s connected to it and more to come
I think she’s the God of Stories
- addresses the camera
- told us about the Doctors story
Or maybe it was just snowing……. ?
@@judithstrachan9399it wasn’t though, you can see nowhere else had snow. It’s CLEARLY a foreshadowing tactic by RTD, surely you can see that?
Oooooh the god of stories! I like that idea!
I love this idea!
I don't think I could give an "UP" for Ruby's mother reveal
I love who culture, but they’re too much pro doctor who to give a down for things that they should give a down too.
Not neutral enough
@@tmbsports3720I mean, If you parse out these numbers, it's basically a 7 out of 10. That's not exactly a high score.
There is plenty of criticism in this video.
@@tmbsports3720 I feel the same. Whenever there's something "wrong" in the show they just see the good part in it. Not neutral at all
The fact that she called the doctor a "Clever, clever boy" instantly struck a Clara chord
I said this in another comment section somewhere but I will literally stop watching if they bring Clara back. I hated her and she needs to stay gone. That being said Clara would have NEVER refused cherry a cup of tea when she knew they were going to die lol she’s far too sensitive for that.
I feel like that line is definitely meant to be a tease for the Doctor to hear about later on, Cherry might just casually mention that Mrs Flood thinks he is a ‘clever boy’ and that will be an ‘Oh shit’ moment for him to realise that she somehow knows some aspect of his past.
@@Happymama12 no but, timelords regenerate by taking other peoples faces sometimes. so her taking in an older Clara face... that might be interesting?
@@Just_Flipy I mean…what would be the point in that though? And taking on clara’s older face wouldn’t make her say “clever boy”. She doesn’t also take on Clara’s memories and mannerisms. I do think it’s possible it’s another time lord though. I know some people think it’s the master but I really don’t want it to be. I’m kinda sick of the master.
That was defo rtd messing with us
The everyone lives ending is more satisfying when you don't see it coming like in the episode we pull that line from.
"We made her significant" reminded me of how Voldemort chose Harry over Nevile.
Sutekh abandoning his entire million-year-in-the-making plan because he was curious about Ruby's ordinary mother was the stupidest linking of plot threads, and dismissing everything with a hand-waved "uhhhh you thought she was important so she became important" was just...insultingly bad? Especially with how many orphans there are just on Earth who didn't know their parents and want to find them - what made Ruby so special? Nothing, it turns out. Also don't ask about the snow or why the Maestro was terrified of her or the hidden song in her soul or why her mum wore a cloak and pointed menacingly or anything else because we're not going to explain any of that. And then Ruby starts referring to her as her "real mother" when the woman who spent twenty years raising her was standing right there. Wow, Ruby. That's...cruel? That's just cruel.
And then ultimately Sutekh is beaten by a magical bungee cord. If I'd read this as a spoiler before watching the episode I would have assumed it was a joke :/
I will still be watching the show because I love Ncuti but I have no faith in a good payoff for Mrs. Flood. The season finale was very clear on not caring about who people are, so the team trying to tease out that intrigue just falls flat after 55 minutes of "actually nothing mattered" lol.
Ncuti, the man can't act his way out of a paper bag.
@@crewgadjyTotally agree, his acting is appalling.
@@crewgadjy Your blaming the actor for the writing.
@@tanepukenga1421 no i'm blaming the actor for not being a very good actor. Though obviously the writing is atrocious as well.
If he was always on the TARDIS does that mean there's a second Sutekh sat on the TARDIS in Donna's back garden? xD
People keep pointing that out as a joke, but it honestly wouldn't be surprising at all. Then he can have a way to bring Tennant back for the millionth time and have Sutekh back too
Or did he have to pick which Tardis to go with? That's the bit that makes me laugh, Sutekh on one Tardis staring at the other and thinking "Ok, what do I do now?"
Sutekh would have had to switch the TARDIS he was attached to because 15's is the new one. 14 has the original.
Look Sutech has been sitting on top of the tardis for ages. That light fixture stuck up your arse is going to make anyone grumpy and want to end the world.
@@nervosuss the pantheon so far have been a fan of musicals, so sutekh picked the one with a jukebox
The one thing I've heard no one bring up, is in 73 Yards, the scene where Flood shows up, she already knows what Ruby and Carla where doing in the street. She knew about the 73 yards being, with the same perception filter as the TARDIS
The problem is that the episodes and seasons are so short that it’s difficult to build story arcs and relationships. So, the episodes feel rushed and we end up with lose ends.
All you need to defeat the Lord of death is a spoon and a lead. Will make sure to bear that in mind for next time.
All he needed was a nice walk around the block, easy!
@@WhoCultureclearly his glands needed emptying esp waiting all this time 😂
@@WhoCulturehe was just a bit hangry
@@WhoCulture Does the God of Death poop?
Defeating the god of death by walkies is pathetic tbh
I feel that Sutek was not the villain at all. Ruby's mother having power because we invested her with it? So much of this season went that way. The world kept conforming to someone's narrative of what was happening-and with the 4th wall breaking, clearly evil Ms. Flood narrating? If this doesn't turn out to be a bait and switch... To quote Glass Onion, "No! It's just dumb!
a mothers love saved ruby
So how could Ruby make it snow if she's just a normal human?
I don't mind Ruby's mother being a regular person, but it's still confusing, Why did the doctor's memory keep changing, and why Couldn't we see the mother's face and why did she do a dramatic turn and point?
also my favorite line of the entire season is when Ruby's bio mom told them she thought they would hate her for giving Ruby up.....Cherri Sunday's response, "There is no hate in this house."......i wish more homes around the world had that as the #1 Rule
I think the bigger issue with Ruby's mother is not her significance or anything like that. Her being a normal teen mother is completely irrelevant. The issue is the really really stupid hand waving away of her pointing at the Tardis. No, she was not pointing at the name of the road to name her daughter with nobody around to see it. That is one hell of a deus ex machina to deal with a plot point that had left things in an awkward spot with no real way to reconcile with the idea of her mother being a completely normal human. That is terrible writing imo. The rest of the episode is decent, but that was terrible.
I wish it was more explained as some sort of time manipulation through memory as a way to warn them about the Tardis... cause the pointing is so stupid, why would she be pointing at the sign when she'd clearly see the Doctor in the Tardis staring back at her.
Agreed. That and the snow, and the carol of the bells - too many unanswered questions.
@@Elfdaughter without a doubt, and the answer being something to do with the universe, is dumb, no matter how good it feels, it is dumb.
I would actually have preferred that to remain a mystery -- and to have a strong suggestion that, in actual fact, Ruby's mother never pointed at the sign at all. It didn't happen. Meaning that someone interefered with the memory -- and it was that someone who was responsible for the snow and the carol. And leave that thread dangling for the next season
@@Elfdaughter Maybe thats the point. The answer about the mother comes from Unit and the Doctor. Everybody know the doctor lies.
Maybe its a Fake Mother. An unit againt to contain Ruby on earth, not knowing what She really is.
Look at the episode of 62 yards. We learned this is the range of the perception filter. And the eldery woman forced everyone to really look at her without that filter. 😮
So Ruby is something special. And Unit create that ruse to contain Ruby on Earth and fives her a reason to stop travelling with the doctor.
My biggest questions:
- Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series?
- Why did it actually snow?
- Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split?
- What happened to the memory TARDIS?
- 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol
- Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was
-If the Toymaker was outside the universe until WBY with the Salt, when did he ever have chance to 'play a game' with Sutekh? He didn't want to go up against the one who waits, who “was there in the dark”, but Sutekh wasn't in the dark, he was on the TARDIS lol
It was all very meh tbh
We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!
Thank! You! Exactly this! The season is over and with how much of a happy ending vibe they were bringing they don't care about giving any answers.
Yeah, I have same questions here. Also, what kind of ordinary person is invisible from Sutekh? With all the fantasy-themed build-up, to think that the mother was actually an ordinary person... it's just out of theme.
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS got shrunk? (Logopolis, Flatline)
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS got possessed by House and had its consciousness placed into a woman? (The Doctor's Wife)
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS got blown up? (The Pandorica Opens)
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS became the Doctor's grave and started growing? (The Name of the Doctor)
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS went to a parallel universe and straight-up died? (Rise of the Cybermen)
- What happened to Sutekh when the Daleks tried to blow up the TARDIS? (Journey's End)
- What happened to Sutekh when the Doctor and Martha were touched by Weeping Angels and sent back in time without the TARDIS? (Blink)
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS crashed into itself? (Time Crash, if that's canon)
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS materialised inside itself? (Space, Time, if those are canon)
That's just the examples from nu-Who I can think of (plus Logopolis). Admittedly the TARDIS was fine in the end in all of those instances, but Sutekh couldn't have known that at the time!
(Also, at the end of Day of the Doctor, we see three versions of the TARDIS from their own place in the timeline, all right next to each other, all presumably with their own Sutekh clinging to them - not really a "problem" like the other examples, just noting it!)
What happened to writing a bloody good solid story ? 😢
BUT HOW COULD SHE MAKE IT SNOW?????
The way Sutekh was defeated was a down for me. Why did he suddenly forget to use his powers when Ruby attached the rope to him? He's said to be more powerful then his first appearance yet uses his acolytes to try and stop The Doctor and Ruby. Why not just use your power again that you just used on The Doctor? Literally scared The Toymaker to the point he ran away, yet gets defeated by a rope. Though, it did look cool him being dragged through the Time Vortex.
It's NuWho 😂
An intelligent rope.
It's RTD, it was always going to be Dues Ex Machina
I agree it was lame.
Dog with massive claws couldn't slash a rope.
3:09 Sutekh also witnessed the conception of River Song. 😱
Ouch.
Immediately where my mind went too 😂😂 I was like rose and the 10th doc was the LEAST of sutekh’s problems
Can never unread this comment
Oh sweetie!😜
🤣
Another thing, if her mom was just another woman, why couldn't the T.V. show find here? It's not like her DNA was locked away, and it's exactly how UNIT found her.
That's what bothers me. She said she's a nurse for the NHS -- there SHOULD be blood samples out there, even in modern times!
Apparently her DNA was supposed to not EVER have been taken until compulsory testing in 2046, BUT, as Nicole says, she’s a nurse! I guess the TV show doesn’t have the reach they think they do.?
Just because someone has given a blood sample for medical reasons that doesn't mean that their DNA has been analysed and is available to search. Tv shows like long lost family rely on people having taken a test through family history websites.
One misdirection was the implication that they had absolutely no DNA matches to her. Even if your DNA test doesn't bring up matches to close family, because none have tested, it will still show hundreds of matches to 2nd, 3rd, 4th cousins. Over time, with detective work and with further selective testing, this can lead to tracing actual close relatives.
I feel like 73 yards was Ruby’s defining moment tho
It should be her acting reel for all future projects and auditions! She showed so much range ❤
The only problem was that is that it didnt say much. Nothing happened when she had her big, brave moment. It all felt a bit pointless in the end
@@PrincessAshley972 Agreed, i dont know why people hold that episode so high up
@@PrincessAshley972and we still don't know why everyone fled in terror. And yeah even after saving the world on her own nothing really hapened to show that that was what she needed to do
@@brunoadame4667 yes but remember, that didn’t happen. So it wasn’t. She didn’t have one until empire of death.
This is unexpected, I thought it was awful. Pure cringe for the last 10mins. It made no sense. Pointing at a sign post? The snow? The 'song' in Ruby? The 15 year old wearing a Victorian cloak in 2005? Lol RTD just had no idea how to end this.
Snow was the only thing explained and that was in the last episode, and unsatisfactory and apparently everybody missed it. But it was because of how time and memories are the same thing now, and her memory of that night was so strong, and everybody including sutekh was so interested in the mystery that it made the same snow fall in present day. That is RTDs idea of an explanation now. Fuck.
@@bennettnez4711 Why would Sutekh be so interested in a random human woman? In the 1975 episode even Time Lords were like ants to him. He completely ignored Sarah Jane back then.
He was only interested in killing everything (Sutekh's Gift of Death).
@@inquerion8867 I never claimed that that was explained. Just what happened with the snow. I did not like the episode very much.
@@inquerion8867 like Im not the one that decided Sutekh cared, RTD did. Not saying that it made sense. It was however part of the snow.
Have people forgotten what the power of thoughts have.
Sutekh clung onto the TARDIS, and travelled through the time vortex without so much of a scratch, but being dragged through it and he dies? hmmmm.
He was protected by the TARDIS's forcefield. Remember when The Cyber King was deposited into the Time Vortex to be disintegrated. Same premise so this is nothing new.
Don't forget all the times the TARDIS has been attacked, blown up and more damages inside the box that should've caused Sutekh harm.
What about when jack did it in utopia, he died
@@Cubicsphinx801 Yeah travelling in the time vortex killed him. And while he should've been a little bit burnt. A Torchwood style burnt revival isn't really Doctor Who's style.
Sutekh shouldn’t have been on the tardis since pyramids of mars. He should’ve been on the tardis when it absorbed the flux. He could’ve been cast outside the universe when 4 defeated him. When division engineered the flux as a force of death in their base outside the universe he would’ve been able to ride it back in like the toy maker could because of the salt being cast where the walls were thin. The doctor threw his tardis in front as soon as it was released remember. That would have made it much more personal for 15 as it was HIS specific adventures that gave sutekh power and why twist only just started appearing. When 15 split the tardis in the giggle that really let him into her and allowed him to start his plan. His defeat could also have fixed the death caused by the flux too as he was linked. Technically could’ve also saved gallifrey if we link the death particle to sutekh.
Yeah, I thought about this as well. The TARDIS has been destroyed like a Bagillion times since that episode. Lol
I still want to know why everyone hated Ruby after meeting her other self.
Same. Not having the answers is a puzzle. It feels like "turn left" or the path not yet taken.
However "Mad Jack" was still remembered by the Doctor. Seems like it is inevitable no matter what. But Ruby experienced that, not the Doctor according to what we saw in 73 Yards.
So it feels like something is off..
If that still happens. Did Ruby's involvement not matter in that timeline?
🤔 Usually it is a characters choice that changes the outcome, and it shifts in a different direction
Or maybe Ruby is something more. And the Doctor experienced her journey through her eyes (like Quantum Leap,)
Also they seemed to be suggesting a connection between the 73 yards and the distance the Tardis perception filter reaches out to (66.7 metres) - however for that episode the Tardis was sitting on a cliff top nowhere near Ruby for most of the episode.
If you walked up to a stranger who was following someone and talked to them and they said something like "you have to abandon her or the world will end", what would you do?
I know it's just a theory as to something she might have said, but, it's a theory that makes it the only reason, with a supernatural element, that would make even Carla abandon her. A YOU HAVE TO abandon her or the whole world, including Ruby, will end.
@@kadosho02 My take was something about the blurry, unchanging, out of her time woman was so deeply unsettling and wrong on a fundamental level that anyone who got close enough to talk to it never ever ever wanted anything to do with anything to do with it every again. That's why none of them would say what the woman said or why they hated her now, because what they were seeing/hearing was so wrong in a way they couldn't explain, they just had to get away and stay away from anything associated with it. That would also explain why UNIT just cut Ruby off instead of like arresting/assassinating her, they wanted nothing to do with any of it. And why PM mad Jack ran away from government completely, not just turing on Ruby as an individual. Unlike the others, he didn't know the apparition was associated with Ruby, so instead he associated the "feeling" with the stage and the speech and being PM. All the woman was saying was "don't step".
As for the Mad Jack thing, he was always going to be the PM in 2046, he didn't actually have anything to do with the fairy circle, the people in Wales were just bullying her. in the 73 yards timeline, Ruby stopped him like the day after the election, so none of the awful shit he was going to do ever happened. In the REAL timeline, he did the awful shit and the Doctor (some time in his past) was involved in over throwing him and ending his reign
I really enjoyed 73 yards, but without a call back, something seems lost. I just hope there is a call back, bad wolf.
This episode had the same problem that the Series 3 finale had where all the stops were pulled to have an amazing ending in TLORS only for the big reset button to be pushed with next to no consequences. If they'd left with with just Kate or Rose dying, the stakes would probably have felt much higher.
They would never kill Rose. Kate, maybe, eventually, but not like that. And not if they're pitching a UNIT series.
@@KnightRaymund I wasn't limiting it to those two. All I was saying, was that the stakes would've felt higher if only one or two major characters died instead of everyone, and just gave some examples.
I don't feel the significance of Ruby's mum was properly explained. The snow, the music, the Maestro being afraid, the doctor's memory changing to have her pointing... Sure it was a mystery but why did sutek care? I hope there is more to this story to explain that because as it stands it feels like they forgot to tie up all the loose ends.
My problem with the mother reveal was, that it wasn't just the audience that hyped up the mother's identity. The show itself deliberately spoon fed us with mystery around her. If it would have been just a cloaked woman who was pointing to something, sure, that would be just us seeing signs where there aren't any. But then, there's the Maestro, who says Ruby has a power in her which is as great as that of the oldest one. The snowing wasn't explained either.
Poor writing.
So in the day of the doctor when there was thirteen doctors around gallifrey and 13 tardis does that mean suteck looked at his future self and thought bloody hell how long do I have to cling to this thing hope he at least gave himself a wave
I don’t think The Doctor spreading Susan Triad was his fault at all. That was all Sutekh. The Doctor has been going around the universe helping people. It was Sutekh that did the spreading, not The Doctor.
I do feel like the doctor relies on being the victim a lot! It’s like he is blinded by his/her own ego at times!
@@JuiceMyRandomness I don’t think the Doctor has an ego since he’s helping people and saving lives. I could be wrong though.
Mrs. Flood: "Tell God I'm going to kick down the gates of heaven!"
Ellie: "I wonder if she's a good guy."
Then gets dusted by a God, so ..
I’m curious about that speech as well. Would the domination aspect of The White Guardian, vs. the freedom aspect of The Black Guardian, say things like that?
@@IllumeEltaninI had that exact thought. 5 even said himself that the white gaurdian was the lesser of two evils and only focused on the rule of law not the spirit. Didn't actually care for justice
maybe she's going to Heaven to bring someone back that the Doctor needs?
If you can kick down the Gates of heaven then God is not God.
Why does nobody talk about Susan being left in 2164 with no tardis...
When they name popped up in the DNA database from 2046 (?), and Ruby turned to the Doctor and said 'I don't understand', and then repeated that to Sutekh, for a moment I thought that the theory of 'Ruby is her own mother' that's been floating around Tumblr was true. That she saw her own name and didn't understand what was going on. And that Sutekh may know because he's infiltrated the maternal dna/bloodlines. But she probably said 'I don't understand' the first time because it was just a name, just an ordinary woman's name. She probably felt like we did, thinking it would be a big name drop, or an alien-esque reveal, but nope.
You only inherit half your DNA from your mother.
If the DNA search turned up someone else with exactly the same DNA as yourself that would suggest you might have a long lost twin but if the sample was identified as from yourself then it would be ignored ie a DNA test would never work out that you were your own mother even if you were (and if you were then you would probably need to be your own father as well as in Robert Heinlein's " '-All You Zombies-' " - filmed as "Predestination" in 2014.)
For everything not great in the episode, I did tear up when Mel touched Sixy's tie and coat. He is still my favorite Doctor
She also had 7th tank top next to her when she was napping.
A lovely touch 😊
Those Mel bits were some of the only parts I love, tbh.
i'm completely fine with Ruby's mother being a normal woman, as long as we get a different explanation for the snow and the "wrong" song inside her, maybe her father or a different unrelated reason
I loved the family reunion scenes. I don't care if the mom was important or not. But you are wrong about the audience making her important. Russel T Davis, as a story teller, made the mom and the reveal important. He put the emphasis on the reveal being important. As a writer, I could just state: the mom just left the baby on the church step. Also, Sutekh, as a god of death, wouldn't really care about the mom and the mystery behind it; he is all about death. He wants to kill everyone and rule over the ashes (it was stated in the episode by the acolytes); so there wouldn't be a reason to keep the Doctor and the companions alive.
Exactly this!! People are gonna make it out that the audience wanted her to be something important. No. In fact, quite a lot of the sentiment I got from people was that they wouldn’t mind the mother being a normal person.
Russel tricked us into thinking she was. And it was done in a way where so many things don’t make sense with her parents being normal. Now the snowing, Maestros comments about Ruby, Ruby’s mum being cloaked in the VHS, Sutekh not being able to see or kill her, and therefore him keeping the doctor alive all don’t make sense.
It’s like Russel wanted the mystery and build up around her origin and the emotional pay off of an ordinary reunion.
No, he made the mystery important, not the reveal
I will say this, in regards to the goodbye scene between the Doctor and Ruby, the power of the words they were saying was there, but the impact wasn't and I do feel like those are in fact two different aspects.
Overall, time was the Doctors true enemy here, the 8 episode limit as well as not waiting until Ncuti was completely done with Sex Education, to start filming so that he could fully invest in being the Doctor and they could fully invest in being a duo.
The studios waiting until they could do a proper "They're a team" season hampers a lot.
His "best friend" in a handful of episodes? Episodes they were barely in together?
Also, having literally one-third {or less} episodes than shows used to have can make things "rushed". Not just for the story-telling, but for us to "bond" with the characters.
Yeah, the music, the acting, the lines were all there but I didn't believe it. I honestly felt like the same scene could be read as the Doctor being awkward, not because he knows he's leaving at least for now, but rather that he doesn't really want to hang out with Ruby and her birth parents. Usually the endings with the Doctor and his companions makes me cry, but I barely cared.
Well, in a perfect World.........................
as soon as all the characters that actually had lines were turning to dust, i knew they were coming back.
I was expecting Sutekh clinging to the TARDIS at Wild Blue Yonder, not at their first encounter, because this makes no sense with all of the things the Doctor and the TARDIS have experienced all of this years. I thought that the whole salt gimmick was what caused him to be freed and clinged to the ship while it was away because of the HADS.
Salt gimmick as never the reason as the noises started happening before the Salt bit happened 😊
@@jdgjagerbomber9430 You're right. The whole thing is a mess.
One of my favorite ideas is that in the 50th it was also a multi sutekt story, like "sup guys, still waiting?" Then 11th sutekt sighs
lol thats awsome, adding that to theorys that i belief in haha
All three of them sitting there during the big red button scene just chilling in the barn.
Yeah… Ruby’s mum doesn’t seem like the big black cloak wearing type, LOL.
The big reset is always crappy when there isn’t a price for it. While I think Ruby finding her bio fam is lovely, I thought that because of the “death to death” idea, maybe Ruby’s mum would be the only human that stayed dead because Suteck never found her… I feel like that would’ve given some repercussion, resolved the mystery and been bittersweet in the way that some of the best old episodes can be - like Donna gets to live but she can never remember her Tardis adventures… The Doctor saving the universe and Ruby discovers her mum, but her mum is the only human to pay the price for Sutekh’s return and all their adventures seems fitting (if sad). But then Ruby wouldn’t have a reason to stay behind on earth I guess…
When Mrs. Flood came on the screen IDKY BUT I was like, did they just confirm the Mary Poppins is a time lord theory? Umbrella? Suitcase? Definitely a stretch but I like it enough I am goin to believe it until said otherwise.
Omg me toooo
Missy and her umbrella especially in Death in Heaven when she floats down was definitely a Mary Poppins nod.
Mrs Flood EXPLICITLY calling the Doctor "clever boy" while wearing the exact same outfit as Clara when she died in Face the Raven has me thinking Jenna Coleman might be on her way back. Not to mention Ruby's snow thing going unexplained reminded me so much of Clara saying to 12 "but Santa Claus was on the roof before we left"
I think Sutekh didn't leave the TARDIS because he literally couldn't. He had bonded with it so thoroughly, that his whole plan, his glorious Empire or Death was possible because of his subborning the TARDIS's technology, from it's manipulation of time, to the mispurposing of the perception filter, it all depended on remaining bonded to the TARDIS. If he left it, and pulled himself away from it, the whole thing would unravel. So, that's why the Doctor and Ruby taking the dog for a walk worked. They ripped him out of reality proper and scraped him along the time vortex until his connection to the TARDIS was severed, and the Empire of Death collapsed into the normal shape of time.
I’m sorry but no the more I think about the Ruby mum mystery the less I like it. It wasn’t just the fans who were making me think Ruby was special! It was the show telling me that. The Doctor scanning Ruby, the snow, Maestro seemed scared of Ruby’s power, Rubys mom doing the most when leaving her baby at the church. Why was Sutekh interested in Rubys mom? It’s so unsatisfying that when Star Wars did it they reverted back their decision. Why do what Star Wars did when it got all that backlash? Very weak first and last episode this season which sucks because we lost people to that first episode and this last episode leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Can we discuss the fact, that the TARDIS was cloned by the magic hammer. And as far as we know. Every aspect of it was cloned. I doubt Sutekh would have jumped off off one to another...
I love that Whoculture stays positive about Doctor Who, so many channels have just fallen into a pattern of hating everything. This is refreshing and nice :)
I think you have been VERY kind to this episode. I’m all for positivity but I don’t know if I’ve been more disappointed with a finale than this. It’s not just underwhelming, it’s largely insulting. How can you build up a mystery like ruby’s origins and then say ‘the reason it’s significant is because you give the mystery significance’ like MATE you literally led us to believe it was important.. the villains motivations aren’t clear and we never learn anything about Sutekh other than god of death and wants to kill everything, Ruby making it snow never revealed, why Sutekh wouldn’t just kill the doctor and why he was so desperate to know who her mum is when it wouldn’t remotely matter to him. The kind woman scene achieved nothing- why did she survive the dust, why did the doctor need metal and why was she so precious about metal being a scarce resource?? The world is literally dead and Barron and you’re being iffy over a spoon?? I personally don’t even care for mrs Flood if I’m honest, she doesn’t have charisma or presence and I no longer trust RTD to come up with a satisfying explanation of her character. Before the finale I would consider this season 6/7 out of 10, never truly wow’d but enjoyable enough. In my head if the finale stuck the landing it would retrospectively make the season good. After the finale I feel it was a huge waste of time, sorely disappointed because of how badly I wanted the story to be good.
I agree that the kind woman scene was pretty pointless. I get that it was to show us the impact of Sutekh's victory but why did the Doctor travel to some random world to get some metal? It would have been better if Ruby insisted on going home to see for herself that her family's dead and, while there, the Doctor grabs some cutlery out of a drawer and declares that he's going to save all life. Wiping out then saving all existence was too big an idea for a single episode.
So, in The Doctor's Wife the Tardis didn't know or the Tardis didn't feel the need to inform The Doctor that it was carrying a God around?
The Tardis in that episode is kinda all knowing it probably thought or knew that telling him might screw up his victory.
the image of sutekh sitting invisibly ontop of the tardis really created some funny images
like when the tardis was placed in the incinerator in journeys end or when it was blowing up in the big bang was sutekh just thinking “ah fuck, i didn’t see this coming”
in the 50th special was there 3 sutekhs just catching up with each other?
also every time the tardis was bumped into was sutekh just like “ow. ow. ow. ow. ow.”
@@KingBossBobyeah. That light fixture on top of that tardis rammed up Sutekh’s arse is gonna make anyone grumpy and want to end the world.
@@KingBossBob That means also that Thirteen Sutekhs helped the Doctor freeze Galifrey in a moment of time.
Also means that Sutekh didn't help the Great Intelligence when the Doctor died and his timeline was open to anyone who wanted to step into it.
@@Carnagevenomtoxinjust 10 cos the first 3 Doctors are before the pyramids of Mars
I feel like the way he defeated Sutekh could lead to him unintentionally bringing back a lot more than intended….. like how Rose said “I bring life” and brought Jack back eternally….. I could totally see this somehow bringing back certain people, villains, etc
I thought the same - praying this brings back galifrey for S2
I really wouldn't have minded Ruby's mother being a nobody if they themselves hadn't made such a big deal about how 'special' Ruby is.
All the snow, the music, the Doctor's memory of that night literally changing, the time travel-y stuff she did in 73 yards.
The Doctor implying that magic stuff happened because she put such an emphasis on the mother herself. But then, wouldn't that happen to every single person who's been adopted ever?
I think there could have been a potential fix there, by saying it was never her mother, it was Ruby. Something about history changing so she died as a baby, and then the Doctor changing it almost but not quite completely back to how it was, complicated her, like there's now a glitch that's left her permanently connected to the point where the three versions of high life diverge. The Doctor remembers her pointing not because she pointed at him, but because she pointed at something during one of the other two versions and just being around Ruby messes with which version he remembers.
They could even have the Doctor say something about how he should have realised but imply he was projecting his own thoughts about his mysterious parents onto her situation, so missed the obvious.
Exactly. I honestly didn't care who Rubys mother was after her intro episode, I kind of thought that was the whole point - that her adopted mother is her family and there's no need to want more. RtD is the one who insisted there was more significance, so that's the reason we became invested. Then he pulls out the rug like "ha, I tricked you fans! She's just a normal person!" It's all very condescending writing
Wish the season had focused on Ruby and the Doctor more that final scene would've been brilliant if they had invested more in their relationship. Definitely think Millie and Ncuti were great and the highlights of the series.
What genuinely is the point of the ups and downs when you don't actually say what you think of the episode
A more fitting reset should have been after they discovered that Ruby's mom does not and seems to never had existed. This would have reiterated why she was the key.
Ruby's mom.
@@klisher Thank you. I was typing it during the part she was talking about Rose.
@@johnwoolard4599 👍👍
The only thing I really didn't like about the ending was the whole Ruby's mom situation. The pointing seemed odd and I think there could have been a better explanation.
I feel like we still haven't been given all the answers... I know they were hamming up the power of memory throughout the season but I swear there is still something special about Ruby.
I feel like Ruby got her defining companion moment right in Space Babies where she runs to save Erik even before the Doctor, just running straight into the face of the Bogeyman and trying to distract him without even thinking twice.
RTD Tropes:
Random military shipping (Sontaran Strategem)
Falling in love with the Doctor
Reset button
Large army at the end of the season
Questionable deus ex machina solution
Tardis being taken over/evil (the master's Paradox Machine)
The villain knowing the Doctor more than he knows himself (Stolen Earth)
I feel like I've been overdosed with this episode
The only difference is Ruby's "I love you" felt more platonic than romantic. She loves him dearly as a friend and knows she might not see him again, from what she's learned from past companions.
Also Magical Super powerful companions - which Moffet did keep running with after RTD left. 😂
The problem for me with the mother reveal was that at no point would someone point at a sign if deciding to name their child the name of a street. It felt awkward and goofy in a way beyond what I expect of the doctor. Though at least her story is done and we can get a new companion. I do hope he goes out to find his daughter.
Granddaughter
@@judithstrachan9399he might have a daughter too ..
Oh wait he does! Genny!
Can’t believe you didn’t give a massive down to that laughably bad reason for Ruby’s mam pointing. So in a dark street, without anyone around to see or hear, an unknown woman points to a road sign, from that a child is named, not only named but also that name is recognised in a cafe, 19 years later.