ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2020
- Installing and testing a prototype FPGA component video output mod for the Commodore 64! Is it any good?
Video Game Perfection Website: videogameperfection.com
The open source C64 Video Enhancement project by c0pperdragon on GitHub: github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-V...
Color Palette Editor C64 program: github.com/Hojo-Norem/c0pperd...
bwack's in-depth video about the component mod: • C64 Video Enhancement ...
C64 CUSTOMS video about installing the mod in an Aldi C64: • C64 Hardware - FPGA Co...
My Twitch stream testing the mod (archived on my second YT channel): • C64 Demos and Games | ...
The Giana Sisters Anniversary Edition Preview for the C64 I'm playing is available here: csdb.dk/release/?id=168405
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● Music:
- "Among the Bits" by Focus 10 / user-993847645
- Giana Sisters Title Theme by Chris Huelsbeck www.huelsbeck.com
● Equipment and tools I use: kit.co/janbeta *
● Jan Beta Links:
TWITTER: / thejanbeta
PATREON: / janbeta
WEBSITE: www.janbeta.net
TWITCH: / thejanbeta
Thanks for watching!
* Stuff marked with "*" contains affiliate links. You don't pay anything extra and I get a little commission from everything you buy through the links (even if you buy something different there).
#JanBeta #Commodore64 #VideoMod - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I just wanted to explain why I did not go for HDMI in the first place.
Actually I did initially, but I had multiple issues with this:
1. Compatibility. The HDMI output signal would be off-spec for a 1080p signal and would not work out of the box or even at all on many monitors/TVs/capture devices. Similiar to the problems that arises when using the OSSC to upscale 288p signals. So I decided to side-step all this configuration issues (see what the OSSC needs to provide in this regard to be really useful) and just create analog signals.
2. Expensive and very hard to get parts. For an HDMI output I would need an HDMI transmitter chip and most are just not available from the major distributors any longer. Of those that are available there is no documentation accessible - only for companies that sign an NDA.
3. Incompatible with CRTs. LCDs have at least quite some chance to support YPbPr even today. I actually checked at the electronics stores and many consumer TVs do have this option still. So with analog you can actually cover most devices. And I expect most retro-gaming fans with an LCD to also have at least one YPbPr-enabled upscaler at their disposal anyway.
Thanks for the explanation and of course for developing this brilliant device in the first place!
One thing that you may want to look at in the future is VGA output. Component inputs are quickly becoming a thing of the past, while 640x480 VGA resolution is embedded in the HDMI specification and devices to convert from it to HDMI are cheap.
Looks like a great add-on. Something I would consider. Question, would it be possible to create a cable that takes the component output and feed it into an RGB input on something like a Commodore 1084 ?
The three output signals (Y,Pb,Pr) can be reconfigured from the C64 to output all sorts of signals: RGsB (a.k.a. sync-on-green is easy, as it does also only need 3 lines. RGBS needs 4 lines, so when configuring the three lines to carry only pure RGB, you need to get the sync signal from somewhere else. The luma signal on the original A/V port could be used for this, provided that the monitor can use a luma for sync. If you have some soldering skils, you could build a cable that combines the output from the A/V port and the output from the component mod into a single SCART plug that carries RGB, sync and audio as well to directly drive the 1084. Would be great if someone really could proof this concept.
Copper Dragon nice explanation, thanks. Would make for a great c64/a500 setup with a 1084.
Nice vid mate, and nice product Copper Dragon 👍🕹️
Thanks Chris! It is a brilliantly designed board for sure. :)
Very cool! I could see putting this in one of my extra C64s. Have to keep one on my Commodore monitor too of course.
Yes, I love the fact that you can still use the old A/V port with this mod, too.
"use the force.... Luke" DOE! (smacks head) LOL 😄
very cool video!
It looks very interesting, I wouldn't mind having one. Thanks!
It's out there already, you can buy them ready to go from some people. No idea how long it will take until they are available from VGP. It's the prototyping phase at this point. ;)
@@JanBeta Who are these some people? I'd buy one right now.
@@rivlezz Been waiting for it since I read about it a year ago www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70902&start=0
Thanks Jan for bringing us this kind of stuff :-) still keep C64 spirit alives !
Oh, glad you liked it! I was very humbled by being sent this. :)
You might want to thank the guy who developed this and released the project as open source, he put a little more work in it than the guy who happened to make a video about it.
Wow! Great video Jan! Thanks
The OSSC should not introduce any lag, it doesn't have a frame buffer and it outputs data as fast as it gets it. The 1 ish frames of lag is probably entirely from that LCD panel.
Wow, I'm glad that someone made this sort of thin' it's hard these days to get a good output on stuff, not that I'm a purist or anythin' by any means but there is always an argument for the old scanlines or warping of old monitors to have that old school feel or of course those that like the clean pictures today because you can have it. Like any old computer though all these parts will eventually fail so what do you do then? Somethin' like this then and it looks to be worth it in the end maybe even a way to make it work with other sorts of graphics or output types in the future - more rendering, more sprites on screen to make it work faster, the possibilities......or ya know we could just use the C64 as it is lol, I'm gonna get one any when I can, thanks as always Jan!....and no I don't have a time machine....................yet and the since I missed the stream I would have commented "the Force doesn't work that way".
I look forwards to when it is available as a ready to hook up device
Really cool! I wonder what it's using the original VIC-II for? Can it work without it?
Adrian, do one for c64 ntsc as this was proven only on pal! 👍
The vic controls the timing, data fetching.. The fpga is only sniffing.
Seems like it's basically doing what the NES RGB mod does, since that also has the original NES PPU sitting on top of the riser board, then the FPGA sniffs out data and makes a video signal from that while the video chip does what it normally does.
wow that's quite something! pulling that rf modulator out of the video signal seems a real blessing
i wonder if it can work together with a pal/ntsc switch mod , if space isn't a problem too, that is
It should work technically, space is obviously going to be a problem.
Nice video as always 👍🏻❤️
I don't own a C64, just an Amiga 1200 - but, I always enjoy and look forward to your next video.. Infact, you inspired me to service my original Xbox (which was so enjoyable to do) that I've owned from new from around 2004/2005... I even bought an iFixit tool kit, some IPA, and a bunch of other stuff..... Sooo thanks Mr Beta (Is that your real last name? I need to test that) Thanks for the inspiration Jan.
For me it looks very nice. No vertical stripes anymore. I definitely need to try this. Best regards, Doktor64!
Yes, it gets rid of the weak points of the VIC-II. I love that you can still use the old output, too.
Such a very professional board. I was looking at it thinking of all the problems that would have been run into and... all had been solved already. Most people wouldn't have sorted it out so well.
Yes, I mean, this is way above my head design wise, but copper dragon definitely did a thorough job with this!
Schön, Dich mal persönlich kennengelernt zu haben! Ich war der mit dem Video Genie. Ich hoffe, man sieht Dich künftig öfter mal bei der Interface!
Ah, du bist das, gar nicht so einfach, die verschiedenen Accounts den echten Menschen zuzuordnen! Hat mir viel Spaß gemacht, ich werde sicher mal wieder reinschauen. :)
Schönes Teil. Steht auch schon auf meiner ToDo Liste.
The colors remind me of the screenshots of games for the Amstrad I used to see on Zzap!
They look full clear and stable. Pretty awesome indeed!
Yes, the palette actually looks a lot like the more colorful CPC stuff. As I said, not quite what I'm used to seeing from a C64 but I don't mind it really. :)
Would be great change the connector for the same of the genesys/megadrive 2 jack, which will give the possibility to route the audio via that same jack, also very good quality shielded cables therefore eliminating some of noise.
That would be a mini DIN if I remember correctly. Makes sense but I don't know if it would fit a connector without modifying the C64 case.
Ah, Thank's! I recently got a pretty similar C64 original setup.
Du bist ein echter C64 Zauberer!
Great video! Can you give details on your stream setup? I'm struggling with getting my video mod to work with my capture card together with the OSSC. Probably will need a differend capture card.
I just compled my 2600 Jr composite mod and it rocks!
I just bought one of these from VGP and - WHOAH! What a huge enhancement for the C64 it is. Thanks to Jan Beta for the presentation, thanks to c0pperdragon for developing such a cool kit, and thank to Matt from VGP for offering a flexible payment solution ;)
Link please?
I got my C64 mod and installed. Nice! What settings do you use for OSSC?
Thanks for the mention and link. Video looks good, you should try hojonorems color program🙂
So, when is the HDMI upgrade. hehe ;)
Seriously, though, it would be a simple enough thing to drive HDMI directly from the FPGA.
The only question then is whether the 240p/288p timings will work well with most TVs when line-doubled to 480p/576p. I think it might.
(If the PCB wasn't in KiCAD, I'd add the HDMI port already. I have used KiCAD, but it's a bit weird.)
@@electronash I put it away.
@@electronash I write to you on twitter PM.
You are very welcome. I will definitely try the palette program! :)
Very cool. I hope they resonate ribbon cable to not require that janky fold over routing. Seems that should be possible with you only needing one 45 degree bend in the ribbon cable.
Greetings from Sammamish
Awesome! Anything to replace those old modulators. Would be better if they install the proper height headers to take the guess work out of retrofitting even if they don't solder them in for you they should provide them to remove the guess work.
I'm actually doing a course on FPGAs and VHDL right now.
It fun to see the posibilities of what you can do with those
I really have to educate myself about those things, too. Endless possibilities it seems!
@@JanBeta It really seems like endless possibilities! Even emulate old CPUs
Amazing!
I've often lamented RF modulators and their large internal on-board footprint but in this case leaves a nice space for that mod. :) May not be original but you kind of want some added vibrancy from the colors with Component. I probably wouldn't be bothered by that sound issue but it would be interesting to see somebody address it.
VERY COOL MODERN UPGRADE GOOD WORK JAN
Thanks Ross!
@@JanBeta dear jan i am serious about the eprom for c 64 mod multi operating system.. i email you ok ...thanks
Hi, love your videos. That tool you use to de-solder ´, what is it named? i live in Sweden and i can´t find one. regards
Does it get rid of the strange every other scanline is offset to the right by one pixel, that seems to afflict by c64.
Very interesting device.
I don't have an original C64 anymore but I actually like those crisp colors.
If nothing works, I would have probably tweaked settings on my TV to make colors fit.
to eliminate the hiss, try adding external power to your UII+ using the microusb port
Yeah, might be an option.
I really like the colour palette. The original colours alwasy look a little bit washed out, it seems this one makes them more colourful ;) Good work, both of you! I'd love to have one of these.
Yes, I agree. The default palette is really an improvement over the original C64 palette. But as I said, it's not quite as nostalgic. ;)
Cool mod. Unfortunately not all component inputs on TV's and monitors are up to the task of displaying SD resolutions properly so scandoubler is still needed. RetroTink 2X should do the job just fine though and the only issue then should be 50Hz support as not all monitors work well with 50Hz (either do not work or work but have choppy animation). BTW. Color look pretty cool. My favourite palette for my Mister FPGA C64 core is Colodore palette.
Jan, have you ever made a video giving a tour of your work space and the various pieces of equipment and tools you use?
No, not yet but it's on the to-do list. There's a kit.co link in the description where I listed some of the tools I use in case you are interested.
Jan Beta thanks Jan!!
Compare the cursors blinking when editing the video and you can see the difference. It may also be part to the CRT being faster, as I thougt the LED monitor looked slower (staring in the middle to see both screens at once). But I might be wrong, and it also may not matter to the gaming experience.
The TFT definitely is a tiny bit slower technically because of the way the picture is displayed (individual scanlines on the CRT vs whole screen refresh on the TFT), plus the OSSC upscaler introduces a tiny amount of lag, too, but it was really difficult to find occasions where it was visible, even slowing down and stopping the footage.
Related to video output...what are you using to get video from your Amigas onto the LCD monitor? I have an A2000 and used to have a MultiSync monitor for it, but that has since disappeared on me, and I'd like to try using it on my current monitor with VGA and DVI inputs.
I'm currently mostly using the OSSC upscaler/line doubler which is great. It outputs HDMI so it works great on DVI monitors with a simple adapter.
Also, the Indivision ECS/AGA cards for the Amigas are highly recommended if you really want to get the best picture out of your Amiga on a modern screen.
When the Giana game scrolls the screen, the HDMI screen appears blurry while the Philips CRT doesn't (for example 23:27 ). Is this due to your HDMI adapter sampling rate? Later, when you record directly without the camera/HDMI adapter ( 27:00 ) the R2D2 scrolling animation appears nice and smooth.
The TFT looks smooth in real life. The blurring is (I think) caused by the camera frame rate that I managed to set to the CRT quite accurately but it didn’t lock perfectly to the TFT.
This is a good mod but the C64 really needs a direct FPGA VICII drop-in replacement with both PAL and NTSC compatibility and possibly some extra modes like scanlines, pallette switching and crt emulation.
By scanlines you mean line doubling or 31KHz output? Should be doable with even small FPGA by today's standard without needing any DRAM to put only VIC II part of whole C64 core
Very interesting bit of kit! This has probably been answered since this is your system but what is the reason parts of the bottom of the PCB look so wrinkled?
Thats because the copper traces are tin plated, its was done on a lot on electronics from the 70`s and 80`s, think it was supposed to help with conductivity or something
Yes, it was supposed to make the traces wider for more current carrying capabilities.
I was actually shocked when I saw my C64's PCB wasn't wrinkled like that. I've seen so many wrinkled ones on youtube that I was expecting it.
As a previous teenage C64 owner, I still like to watch videos on the C64, and also get amazed to see how this old computer still moves fans to create and design modern hardware and software for it. But I'm not in playing the C64 again, even through an emulator. YUV output is really great and it's too bad the computer didn't have it at first. For example the older TMS9918/28/29 from the old 70's, used in Ti99 and MSX, had PAL / NTSC composent versions and also YUV versions.
Yeah, it's amazing that there's still new development for the old systems. I love it. Yeah, it's kind of a bummer that the C64 didn't get at least RGB output from the beginning but as far as I understood it's difficult to get those signals due to the design of the VIC-II chip.
Commodore computers were the first computers (or even home appliance) with separate Luma and Chroma though and this also makes Commodore monitors better than contemporaries because of their S-Video support. For all intents and purposes S-Video is "good enough" for 8-bit micro. If C64 supported such mode 80 column text it would be easily doable on S-Video even with colors.
@@e8root Coming from the country who made the scart RGB connector mandatory, I don't share your point. The difference between composite and YUV/RGB is of the same magnitude than between LW radio and FM radio. With separate Chroma and Luma, you're just attaining MW...
Nice to see this mod get some more attention!
Quick question, have you had the chance to give my Palette editor a try? I'm interested in hearing any feedback that you have. I only need to implement RGsB mode and it'll be pretty much complete.
Hey, cool that you comment on this. I briefly fiddled around with the palette editor and liked it a lot so far. Will probably make another video checking it out sometime. RGsB mode would be awesome (at least it would be great to have for some setups). Thanks for your work on this! :)
@@JanBeta I've just put out a new version with RGsB capability amongst other things. I don't have any equipment that handles sync-on-green so I can't properly test it.
Is this compatible with all variants of the C64? I have the breadbin with mustard function keys
Hmmm.... The roll of toilet paper makes me think strange things....
480p Skid Lines LOL
I just had a cold and ran out of Taschentücher, I promise! ;)
LOL Jan I totally believe you hehe
Should be on a 240p crt for nice scanlines just as an arcade machine :) or is it a 480p out?
i want one! new gfx modes? more colors? more sprites possibility?
If my vic20 video chip 6560-1 reads 124 F degrees is that an indication it's a bad one?
I've always thought the color palette of the 64 was too washed out. Being able to increase the color saturation, while not true to the original, might still be an improvement.
The issue with colors on C64 never looking right in emulators compared to the real thing is not as much issue of finding right palette but the fact that there was whole range of quirks that color encoding schemes such as NTSC and especially PAL have. Some of these quirks are best removed but some were actually helpful in making image look richer and more vibrant in ways that just changing colors to average values can ever make it. When you go full RGB (or Component for that matter) you loose all of these composite effects and especially with RGB you cannot control color saturation anymore. It is however possible and I tested it to add some of the effects back and if done correctly (read: these effects are very subtle!) it can break monotony and make image look more vibrant and alive without making colors more saturated and without loosing any of the FullRGB advantages such as razor sharp clarity.
Have you tried this component output as an input for the framemeister component cable? Would give another hint about the capabilities of that cable and the framemeister regarding component video :-)
Don't have a Framemeister, but the component worked on both the OSSC and the RetroTink2X that I tried.
Very cool. I've wondered if this was possible.
It's only possible by basically creating a completely new video signal from the signals that go to the VIC-II. Getting RGB or component out of the original video signal is impossible as far as I know.
@@JanBeta I should have said, I wondered if it was feasible. 😉
@@JanBeta does this mean that it doesn't require a VIC-II if you aren't going to use composite?
The VIC-II is still required, because the mod only listens passively to he communication between the VIC-II and the rest of the system. The VIC-II is responsible for addressing the video ram, blocking the CPU during this, forcing DRAM refresh cyles and much, much more.
And I just ordered a couple of LumaFix64 kits ! Oh well, supporting projects is good. Funny, can't even keep up with technology on a C64, HA.
Are you keeping up with the Commodore or is the Commodore keeping up with you? ;)
I got a copyright strike for using the Giana Sisters intro music in a video :D ...
Whoops. No copyright strike for me yet fortunately. Maybe it is considered fair use if you use it with the game footage? Didn't think about that really (obviously).
I would have liked to see more comparison (instead of just his one BASIC screen) between the original S-Video Output and the Component Output on a real CRT. Because that's what it's meant to replace, as an analog high quality output isn't it?
Yes, makes sense. I will soon have a CRT with component inputs and am definitely going to test it with this mod. Sorry for not including more screen captures, my files were a bit messed up so I didn't have much footage to choose from when I sat down to edit the video.
Hey, no reason for being sorry! You are going to show us what it's really worth with another video and it's great that you are presenting us this stuff, thank you! :)
The colors remind me of the ones from the Amstrad. Not bad.
Videoing CRTs is hard.. LGR had a video about the challenges a while ago. Very hard to capture and represent what you see on the screen.
Yes! Turns out it's even more difficult to have a TFT and a CRT in frame at the same time and make it look half way decent... ;)
Why didn’t you try it without the OSSC? The Github source shows it already has a built in line doubler so the OSSC is redundant. It also has a scanlines mode.
Also, the colours may always be off even if you edit the palette. The reason for that is that it is only using 5 bits per colour and you really need 8 bits per colour to replicate the C64 colour space accurately.
Probably doesn't have a TV that has component video input. It's fairly uncommon in Europe on older TVs, and entirely new TVs from the last two years don't have any analog video inputs at all.
I like this, but need it for the 128. Do you see a product that might work for me.
Please have a look at the request thread at: github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement/issues/4
Maybe there is a way to make the mod working for C 128 also...
The screen on the left definitely had a tiny amount of lag in this video but that's probably due to the converter you were using. On another note when playing this video at 25% speed you sound a bit intoxicated lol.
Wrap the U2+ in foil and see if the hissing goes away. Also, try using better cables.
Tried several cables, some of which I made myself. No difference. I think it's really a shielding issue with the U2+/the mod board.
Thats a sexy commodore-64....
3.5 inch jacks are not ideal for video, any fondling with the cable will introduce distortion in the picture. There are reasons why they aren't used for video. I get that these are readily available but something like mini-DIN with say 7 pins would be far better for this application. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video#7-pin_mini-DIN
The 7-pin mini-DIN connection is 4-pin compatible so with proper wiring, you could probably make the same connector output both YPbPr (or RGB) and original C64 S-video.
Once you are implementing it on an fpga why not generating an HDMI signal?
HDMI is much more difficult, and also means licensing hassles
Salut Guillaume, Copper Dragon has now answered this question, just scroll up a little.
I have been dealing with Commodore since PET was launched.
My question is, why is this gadget really useful? Do 3D games like flight simulators run more smoothly? If so, I can see that, since it is an FPGA.
But I think the effort involved in just seeing the image on a modern monitor is too risky to possibly destroy his C64.
This is not meant to be a nagging comment. You can also connect the C64 to a modern television with a modern cable via Scart. I have ordered some for my C64 and Amiga 500, and the quality is flawless. Razor-sharp, so to speak.
Yes you can connect C64 via Scart connection to modern TV but this solution has few flaws: a) it still composite (or s-video, though s-video via Scart is not widely supported) and not RGB and b) modern TVs are pretty terrible with SD signals and especially 240/288p signals which they try to de-interlace. S-Video to some S-Video capable upscaler like RetroTink X2 Pro is probably the best and safest option for C64 rather than getting Component output so that more expensive OSSC can upscale it. On the other hand if he have few C64 and wanted to have one with clearer picture via Component/RGB then even if there is little if any benefits compared to S-Video it is still worthwhile ordeal. In either way C64 with both composite/s-video AND component output (which can also be probably modded for RGsB!!!) is an improvement over stock C64 :)
To bad kits not available now. Works on a Vic 20 also correct?
No, this won't work on the VIC-20, as the first VIC chip is completely different from the VIC-II used in the C64!
HDMI cause get 1080P/60Hz from V1.0 and above. The problem is, the C64 can't reach 1080P
That is half-measure.
Whole VIC II replcement is needed.
Will it fit into C64C case with short board?
It’s a tight fit, but it fits the C64C case, too. :)
@@JanBeta Thanks a lot for the answer. That is very helpful.
Oh,oh, wie ich schon gehört habe, dass ein FPGA eingebaut ist, wusste ich, dass es wohl eine teure Angelegenheit wird... sonst aber ein echt cooler Mod, wer braucht schon den TV-Modulator ? Dafür gibt es kaum noch Geräte...
Viva for ever crt
The good thing is, you can use the mod on component enabled CRTs. Which is awesome.
This kit looks like it could be a good alternative if a Vic chip goes faulty rather than looking for salvaged parts.
I think currently it still relies on a real VIC-II for some signals being "answered" but it probably is a huge step towards a VIC-II replacement.
if your gonna make a new circuit, why not just do a hdmi one.. ?
I would probably put a heat sink on the FPGA if there is enough space...
Yes, a flat heat sink should fit on there. But it doesn't get very hot, just warm. I guess it is absolutely fine without a heat sink.
Will it work on NTSC?
Yes, the mod supports every VIC II flavour except the very first 6567R56A chips.
So benefiting for a higher resolution = another video chip.
Why is there a roll of toilet paper on the desk? Spending a bit too much time in the Commodore Corner?😜
I need a couple of rounds of Strip Poker on the C64 sometimes... Seriously though, I had a pretty bad cold and needed to constantly blow my nose so I went with toilet paper for that in the end. ;)
That's pretty rough. I hope you're feeling better now.
As you said, it does not look original, the softer, less sharp image as the original had actually did the pixelated graphics a favor. I recwntly hooked up my Amiga to a new tv via RGB and it looked horrendous. I wish I never tossed those perfectly usable CRT's in the dumpster 🙄
You can but whole computer to Altera chip. What is the point? This become emulator in original box... next step is full software emulator. Where is the border between pure restored computer and new one?
Good question. I don't have an answer. I guess it's a matter of taste or "ethics" if you want.
More options are a good thing. Some people want only the original thing. Some people are OK with some mods like this one. Some people are ok with using an emulator. Some people want better emulation so they buy a MiSTer which has an FPGA core for the C64. All of this is hobbyist driven, and if you aren't interested that's fine but if people are willing to design a board like this and people are willing to buy it then it should stand to reason that someone wants this.
6:47
you said für
Too much german?
Jan Betas Betatesting 😂 Betaunit from Last Starfighter
If only you had a component capable crt…
Haha, that is going to be absolutely awesome, yes. ;)
No PAL color blending? Disappointing...
The firmware does supply the tools for simulating colour blending, but it's up to the palette to enable it. The default palette doesn't.
The palette is stored as two 256 entry tables. Each entry is 16 bit wide representing a 3*5bit palette entry and can be visualised as a 16x16 matrix. The palette entry the firmware chooses to display at any given time is based on the colour index the VIC-II wants to display and what it displayed on the pixel directly above. There are two tables, one is used for odd scan lines and the other for even scan lines. This allows for some approximation of the effect of the PAL phase offset between odd and even lines. It's all down to defining/calculating the colours and uploading them to the mod.
@@HojoNorem The casual user will therefore suffer with non-standard default colors that are not correctly blended. That's a shame...
I don't really see the point of this one: The VIC-II generates native S-video, so you cannot get any better picture quality than S-Video. The only reason for video conversion is compatibility with modern screens, but then component isn't the most optimal choice? Because of this, you upscale the signal two times, first inside the board, then again inside the OSSC. If you have bad luck, the monitor may upscale it a third time.
Conversion to VGA or HDMI would have been much more useful, because there are many monitors that accept such a signal, but component? Perhaps useful for older American TVs, but those likely already have S-Video?
The mod does not use the original s-video signal (noisy and overall quite limited in its quality) at all. The component video signal is generated inside the mod using only digital data from the communication lines between the VIC-II and the rest of the system.
Component supports progressive scan and HD resolutions. Component is the enhanced version of S-Video which is always interlaced.
I don't know what they were thinking, but I think more TV's, upscalers, etc support component than they do VGA, but why they didn't go for HDMI? One reason for that could be that you need to (or should) pay $5000 a year and $0.05 per unit if you produce devices that have an HDMI connector. DisplayPort is superior in every way and is free to implement. I think the mini displayport connector (which apple has licensed for free to VESA) could maybe even fit through the old RF-connector hole, so you wouldn't need to mod your case.
Maybe they're already pushing the limits of the FPGA chip with the VIC emulation and the component output is less demanding to output? Or maybe it's just easier. The thing is a hobbyist open source project, not a commercial product.
It can be configured to output various forms of RGB instead of YPbPr if needed.
@@kke It is a weird choice, but might make sense from an American point of view. Traditionally on the west side of the atlantic TVs had component and on the east side of the atlantic they had SCART. Monitors have (or better, had) VGA. You can target both SCART (for SD purposes) and VGA (for HD purposes) from a single analog RGB connection.
@@copperdragon9286 Oh... so replicate the whole VIC-II on an FPGA. That might have been mentioned as board that decodes S-Video or can replicate a VIC-II is quite a different beast.
Seems Jan was not able to discover incompatibilities, so congratulations for designing a full VIC-II compatible with original hardware!
This is not a full replication of the VIC-II. The mod only emulates as much as possible it needs to produce the correct video signals. It heavily guided by what the original VIC-II is doing at the moment to figure out what all the data signals actually mean. With this approach I cold just squeeze all the logic into this fairly reasonably prized FPGA (a MAX10 with 2K logic blocks).
Oh good, another open source device being sold by VGP. I’m looking forward to the inevitable claims that all others are cheap knock offs.
thecouchtripper I don’t think bitter is accurate, it’s more like a finely distilled disgust with a company who has a business model of publishing FUD about open source products in order to scare people into only buying from them.
For your information, the commodore 64 has LCA, which for all intents and purposes is nothing more than a proprietary implementation of S-Video, so (seemingly) stating that the C64 has no S-video support is plain dumb.
Looks like a nightmare to install.
Can't complain about the colours too much .. if anything, the original C64's palette was always very muddy. I think if this had been an option back in the day, it would have been a mandatory upgrade.
great video but you talk to much instead of getting on with it
I tend to, sorry.