ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2018
- In this video I try to future proof the C64C for the winner of the recent C64 repair draw I did on my Patreon site. Unfortunately, I was unable to get in contact with the main channel winner of the C64 repair so I continue to try to contact him and present this video for you all in the meantime.
The pdf I got the idea with the suppressor diode from is available here: ftp.fau.de/aminet/docs/hard/R...
The datasette azimuth adjustment tool I used can be downloaded here: app.box.com/s/bkz31n2ktz9dahv...
The music used for the soldering/timelapse portions of the video is called "8-Bit wannabe" and was kindly provided by Focus 10 aka Øystein Hansen. Thank you! Check out more of his work here: / user-993847645
If you find this video helpful and/or entertaining please like, share, subscribe and/or consider a donation!
TWITTER: / thejanbeta
PATREON: / janbeta
WEBSITE: www.janbeta.net
TWITCH: / thejanbeta
Thanks!
#JanBeta #Commodore #C64 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Well... Recapped my C64-c yesterday. What a difference. Colours are now correct, I can read all text no matter what two colours used (text/background), no moving band of horisontal noise moving slowly from top to bottom, no more light intensity flashing and the sid plays as good as I remember. And I had hunted all sorts of AV cables untill now. It was an really expensive experience, yet now I have the best cable one can get. So yeah.... 😁
Now get a LumaFix and get rid of vertical lines. And use S-Video output of course. Actually there are mods that let you remove RF modulator completely from the computer. The picture quality is comparable to running VICE emulator, I'm serious about it.
@@rimefancyrats Already have that lumafix 😁 And my cable have both s-video and composit. I am currently not using the lumafix, as I am using composit on a plug, that goes into the scart port on my 14 inch CRT. I have ordered a scart plug with s-video.
Thank you Jan for the video.
I'm planning to future-proofing my C64Cs and your video is a nice walkthrogh to follow :-)
Very nice video. Had 64C which was purchased in March 1989 and the PSU was also the fused model. After a year it indeed started blowing the fuse immediatly after powering up the C-64 so we had to replace the PSU.
Good info also about the soft plastic / rubber wires leaving ugly marks on hard plastic. Have had this happened to my old stuff as well. I've since isolated the wires contacting the hard plastic case.
It's also happening with some modern modelcars, the soft rubber tires contact hard plastic base melting them and sometimes even damaging the tires.
I always chuckle when jan talks about long and short boards. Sounds like a skater or a surfer.
Very nice of you to do Jan!
I really like the timelapse tune.
Lips...my favourite brand!
Thanks for the azimuth tool, I always did the adjustment by trial & error.
Awesome stuff Jan....like all your videos bro...keep up the great work
Thanks Trevor! :)
If you look in the place he writing WHOs making music, ITS standing ~Øystein Hansen~ and thats my dad
That's a neat looking C64C!
there was nothing more satisfying as a kid when a game had loaded from tape back in those days :) nice work buddy
Yeah. That's just how high the fail rate was.
Ach Jan, Du hast mich so dermaßen ( Future Proofing ) angesteckt :o) DANKE!!
Nice Job as per usual. I like the addition of the diode so much so I think I will add them to the 64C's I recently repaired that are on my shelf. I don't bother with the original PSU's from Commodore because its a major unknown as to their state of reliability.
Thanks! That diode mod is really just a last line of defense as I said. Not necessarily needed if you won't use an original power supply anyway. I still do it to most of my machines just in case.
Thank you, Jan for the repairs and future proofing of the C64. I’m so happy. 🙏🏼😃❤️
The RF Module resembeled a bank vault. It looked like something very valuable was hidden in there. I did notice a switch in the module. What does it actually do?
Great video, very enjoyable like usual but of course this time extra cool. I will contact you by mail as soon as I can. Please take your time as you have a load of fan mail to read and reply too.
Thank you, my friend!
Jean-Luc
Glad to make you happy with this. :)
The C64 is already packed and ready for shipping. I'll send it as soon as I get your email. No rush, though, of course. :)
I like the graffiti under the RF module. :)
It's pretty cool to think that some archeologist might curate these things some time in the distant future and read that.
Hopefully the real winner comes forward. If not, I would be more than happy to enter my name for a new draw if it comes to that. Thanks Jan, I've learned so much from you! By the way, typing from my livingroom computer which has a different account, my normal account is my name, Ron McKown.
I see you "all" (youtubers) cleaning things with isoprophyl alcohol and also some widow cleaner. That is nice to clean it all, but (my thoughts) is that that leaves it all unprotected. So what I recommend is to use "Pronto", a wax spray for furnitures (wood) after that, as it will leave a shinier finish and it will also protect it all from dust or dirt from your hands. In fact you can apply it to whatever and if you use it with black plastics they will also look shinier and darker. I also strongly recommend it after a retrobrighting. Also... what happens when you use water to clean keys and metal springs and parts?. Yep, you can dry them, but it will be better if you apply some wax as commented. If you use oil for those parts it will be nice, but you should know that dust likes oil for a living while wax is very unconfortable for it.
Personally I am a fan of ethanol. Isopropanol alcohol is a stronger solvent than ethanol, but ethanol works well enough in my experience and it is a hell of a lot cheaper than isopropanol alcohol. Ethanol intended for e.g. decorative fireplaces only costs about €2 a litre, so you can afford to buy a 5 litre bottle and are able to clean a lot of hardware with it.
I think you raise a valid point about protection. I have been using hair spray in some cases to protect corroded PCB traces. It is always interresting to know what others use.
@@danielmantione Thanks a lot for your answer. BTW, the last time I went to the pharmacy they didn't have isoprophyl alcohol but Propanol. What do you know about it, is it nice to use it?
I don't know a lot about it. It is likely suitable for tasks like cleaning PCB's, as it appears to dissolve the same group of substances. I have no idea how strong it is as a solvent compared to ethanol or isopropanol.
Wonderful description "Battle Scars" :)
29:53 I thought it was always caused by double left handed previous owner running around with soldering iron, smudging hist stuff everywhere. I was confused with my latest purchase, because both Black Box cartridge and datassette had those marks and I was so angry that people can destroy their retro hardware just like that, now I know the real cause. Thanks!
Du hast mich angesteckt :-))) Nachdem ich mir ein Videokabel gebaut habe und der S-Video HDMI Adapter gekommen ist, habe ich meinen uralten C64 eingeschaltet und er macht ein Bild. Ich hatte auch einen C64 gekauft, um einen Raspberry Pi einzubauen. Der geht auch. Da muss der Raspi eben nackt bleiben.
Den zweiten C64 habe ich zerlegt und gründlich gereinigt. Das Gehäuse war gebrochen und hatte hatte eine fehlende Ecke und Löcher für Schalter. Die habe ich mit Epoxyknete geschlossen. Ich werde das Gerät wohl lackieren.
Stabilant-22 is great for protecting connectors and the edge connectors on computers.
Thank you for inspiring me to start collecting again! What specs do I need for a replacement bridge rectifier? Do you usually replace the 7805 with 78S05?
Wow, I had no idea that those "marks" on the plastic caused by the cables :-O I always assumed (since I had some similar examples here too ...) that someone tried to put a cigarette on it, or a soldering iron or something hot, that is, those damages are caused by heat. Again I could learn something new.
yeah, especially as it exactly looks like solder iron marks...
Just redraw the prize. You gave him enough time to contact you
Yes, if he does not even bother ansvear after so long time, give him one week or so before it's finaly smoked...
If you redraw, will the process be open to new applicants?
No new applicants, pls.
@@macdonalds1972 fair enough. Just asking, like...
The ESD wrist band connected to a some ground will not protect your C64 (unless it's connected to that ground). You have to be connected to the ground of the circuit you are working with. Even if that is the ESD mat connected to the ground on your desk, the C64 is in a plastic case which was isolating it from that mat. So you might totally fry some of those precious chips. ;)
Great video tho!
Oh, I think the ESD wrist band at least discharges electrostatic charge from my body (which is the intention).
Wow, they really didn't want you getting into that RF modulator.
Jan I can also use a Zener diode or that does not work it is not entirely clear to me here in the Netherlands I only find that type I no longer have a paypall, so I have to look for it locally or do I really need a TVS Diode.
Thanks in advance for your answer
I think common zener diodes are slower and can't take as much current as the TVS ones. You're definitely better off with a real TVS one which is designed for the purpose.
Ich liebe die neue Musik für die Montage und diese Aussicht war gut und ich sah, wie du arbeitest und dich bewegst. Ein weiteres hilfreiches Video, zumindest für mich war es hilfreich. Danke Jan!
Also I know I know I say it a lot about my attempt at German here but I still feel like you inspire me now to work at it. Any recommendations on ways to learn German, or someone you know I would teach them English even if they like. :D
Vielen Dank! Dein Deutsch ist wirklich gut. :) I don't really can recommend anything to learn German because I just learned it naturally as a kid. I generally learn languages by exposing myself to them, reading books, talking to native speakers of the language, making these videos helps a lot, too.
Danke! I guess I should get back on it then, Especially with native speakers. A great example was yesterday somebody asked me what certain things were in German (because they loved that my last name is German and I know it somewhat) and when I thought about them I completely lost even simple things, including my age, somehow I forgot the 30's words - which as I write this now I recall is dreißig. Prost Jan, keep it up.
People go mad with heatsinks - there isn't really a need for them, as the majority of the chips themselves were designed to operate in a temperature windows upto 85ºC on the C64. The SID Chip itself was designed for operating upto 70ºC and storage in upto 150ºC.
There is a counter-argument that heatsinks can actually reduce the lifespan of the chip, as it can take heat away more rapidly and therefore when the C64 is switched off after prolonged use, shortens the length of the cooldown cycle, which puts extra stress on the integrated circuit.
Hello Jan, can you post list of components, you usually replace ? i would like to do this my self and want order everything before i open my C64. thanks
Phil over at Retroleum.co.uk has some nice capacitor lists (you have to open your C64 though because every mainboard revision has different caps): www.retroleum.co.uk/c64-capacitors
The bridge rectifier I used is a KBPC610 from Diotech (you can use anything >1A with the same pinout really). As I said in the video, replacing it is probably going a bit far, as they are usually fine. I only saw them fail in an elderly VIC-20 and a very crusty C64 so far.
Hi Jan, I enjoy your videos very much. I have question about this one in particular, you didn't replace a Q1 transistor in upper left part of mb (i have d313e7l3 on my mb, but I couldn't identify replacement for it). In other videos about c64 you are replacing all transistors by default. You forgot about it or it was intentional? Secondly have you considered doing video about removing/bypassing c64 modulator to improve video signals?
I’ve never replaced any transistors in my C64 videos as far as I remember, maybe you are confusing me with somebody else? In my experience they rarely ever fail. The one you are looking at is a 2SD313 transistor. You should be able to find a replacement/equivalent with that search term.
Hiya, browsing through your content. I really like your work on commodore stuff :3 - I'm amazed of the video output quality you get on that monitor and couldn't help but wonder how you actually hook your commodore systems up to get that kind of high quality output. Care to share your solution to that? :)
Is any cheap way to connect the C64 to modern LCD monitor via VGA or HDMI?
You can find cheap S-Video to HDMI convertors on AliExpress, with the right cable you can connect the Commodore 64 to this. So yes, it can be done cheaply. Doing it well however, is another matter, since getting good scaling/de-interlacing and good latency is a challenge. On a CRT a C64 picture just looks good, your results may vary with modern monitor. This is why you can also spend a lot of money on it if you want to do it well. Personally I just stick to CRTS.
Great video! Now I'm angry that I don't live a running distance from you 😁
Hi JanBeta, Do you know if the 8 Bit Wannabe tune is available for download, or if there's an ablum available?
I don't think there's an album (yet), but you can listen to some tracks on Soundcloud (linked in the video description).
Hi Dean! I am the composer of 8-bit Wannabe. For download , please contact me on ohansen@ragnfridsvei.no :-)
Hi Jan, what's the part number for the c64 bridge rectifier or equivalent ?
I'm using one that's way over the top for that purpose (that's why it's a lot bigger than the original). It's a KBPC610 from Diotech (also available from other manufacturers). You can use anything with the same form factor and more than 1A basically.
@@JanBeta thanks Jan, keep up the awesome work and you are the best 👍
how did you connect the lcd to the commodore ?
He probably took the video plug that is basically s-video and converted it to vga (reason I didn't tell in more detail is I am on mobile and do not have Wikipedia and I want to fullscreen the video without loosing this)
I think Jan has a cable he made up in another video.. a C64 video to Scart lead.. and if your monitor doesn't have a Scart you feed it into an upscaler box, which can convert it to a HDMI output - then you connect a HDMI cable between the upscaler and the monitor.. job done!
Yeah, this is 69 rev A, I have a 69 rev B and the color SRAM is integrated into the MMU.
I have scars on my Dataset via cables, I knew what caused it, but it was not me that made them.. I got my C64 second hand.. My C64 look brand new with zero yellowing, why I know this is my SD2IEC (recycled C64C plastic) from Future is 8bit is the same colour as my C64C.. I could do with heat sinks and a few addons.. When I got my C64 it was in a sorry state but a bit of TLC from me its beautiful now..
Another great video Jan, thank you. I didn't know the cables can leave mark on the hard plastic. Always learning new things from your videos. And I have some questions :)
Question 1: Is there a 7805 on the board? If yes is it good to change it with a dc-dc converter?
Question 2: I saw on internet someone put tiny little tvs diodes to joystick port to protect the CIAs. Do you think it is a good idea?
Question 3: I measured my power supply and read 5,1 from the connector while I measure 5,0 from 7805 out. Do you know why it is like that?
There is no 7805 on the short boards, everything is directly powered from the 5V of the power supply. The only other voltage the short boards need is +9V for the SID and +6V for the tape motor. The +9V is generated by a zener diode and the +6V is generated the same as on the long boards without any voltage regulation.
Diodes to protect the joystick ports may make sense, but the short boards already have protection on the joystick ports.
The ground line of the 7805 in the power supply is not directly connected to ground, but there is a small resistor in between. The result is that the power supply generates just over 5V. 5.1V is a perfectly normal value.
@@danielmantione Thanks a lot, many new things I learned today :) I will work on joystick port protection for my breadbin.
Nothing to add really. Thanks Daniël! :)
Was that cardboard shield a common implementation? I'm pretty sure both of my C64C's have the shields cut of sheet metal that also serves as heatsink for some of the components.
The Commodore 64 was manufactured in many different factories in many different countries over a very long period. Not every factory did it the same way and the C64 price was continuously reduced, so later models were cheaper. Both cardboard and metal shields were used, but it depends on the factory and moment of fabrication what got inside.
From what I see, early C64C's made in West-Germany and USA have metal shields. It looks like the later ones all have cardboard and I also have yet to encounter a C64C from China or Hong Kong with a metal shield.
Mine are both made in Hong Kong, and both have the metal shield. Both say on their motherboards "PCB ASSY NO.250469" and "PCB NO.252311 REV.4". One was originally bought in Finland, the other _probably_ in U.K. One has most components labeled as manufactured in the first weeks of '88, the other halfway '88.
But it doesn't sound good for consumers if the metal shield was replaced with carboard shield. I've understood that the original breadbin model would have suffered from some components overheating, and I've thought because of that the cardboard would have been replaced in all later models with metal sheet that would double as heat sink. But if the heatsink was left out of the later units, it sounds like Commodore knowingly accepted the buyers to have shorter-lived units.
Well, indeed the heat shield doubles as heat sink, but on the other hand, the HMOS chipset used on the short board, produces a lot less heat. On my self-built power supply, a breadbin with long board consumes 19 watt, a C64C short board just 12 watt. If the metal shield wasn't need for cooling, the cost-cutting measure was justified. I have never read a link between cardboard and higher failures, so I would say there is simply too small of a case here.
Of course, the metal shield looks much nicer. I have an Assy 205466 C64C with metal shield. When opening it, you can see immedeately that more labour was put into building it, than later C64Cs.
Not every cost cutting measure was bad: For example if you look at the 1541-II, the Safronic mechanism used in the later specimens looks very cheap, but it turned out to be much more reliable than the Mitsumi mechanism in the older 1541-IIs.
What size are the heatsinks you use? Are they the ones on eBay for ~€20 for 200?
I think they are about 1x1 cm. And yes, they are from eBay, marketed as VGA heat sinks if I remember correctly.
@@JanBeta Wonderful. Thank you so much!
What do you think about the proxxon hot glue gun?
It's nice. I had a cheap one from the supermarket before and this one is a lot better. No magic involved though, for that you would have to go to a lot more expensive pro models.
Thank you jan...My c64c had no keyboard stands so where can i get those please.?...Your c64c has the cardboard shield too which i intend to remove permanently....
There’s 3D printable replacements on thingiverse or you can buy metal replacements from individual computers for example. There’s other offerings on eBay etc frequently. I found that most versions work fine, not much difference functionally. I usually get rid of the cardboard shielding, too.
@@JanBeta thank you jan...👍
I didn't know Galencia even came on tape. Great game. About the suppressor diode: Now that seems to be a fix my soldering skills could be on par with. Sure it may be a somewhat rough method, but rough is just exactly what my soldering skills are :-). I think I'm going to do this to my machines.
I did the same thing to my C64 short board and added the protection diode. It all worked well for almost all programs, no issues whatsoever. However, after a while I noticed that DUBCRT had stopped working correctly. As soon as any bass notes play, I hear a popping sound and the music stops. Cutting the diode fixed it. Has anybody noticed something similar? Any idea what the root cause is?
My guess would be that either the diode is the wrong type or the power supply is not providing enough current. My C64s with the diode have worked flawlessly with everything so far. I’m using a replacement power supply though, maybe that helps.
34:30 i was adjust the tape head after borrowing different tapes i could preform it without using the program.
if i'm not mistaken you could use turbo 250 with flashing screen to adjust it or maybe someone tricked me.
even if my cousin had a disk drive he was envy of our tapes filled with +30 turbo games per side.
You could always just give me the thing :3
Wow, they weren't kidding when they said 'Jean-Luc Picard would be back'.
I see what you did there! (Really looking forward to the return of Picard, too.)
regarding recapping.
you mention caps die over time but do you mean a set time or is it gradually upon usage?.
tip to jan. you could sell recapp kits so people can buy and support the channel.
It's in the nature of electrolytic capacitors, they simply get dry. No matter what brand or quality, 15 years, 30 years no idea. The only way to check them is to desolder and measure capacitance. I recommend replacing all capacitors even from C64C dated '92.
Electrolytics die over time, with or without usage.. shelf-life depending on the make varies.. but it could be 5-10 years, could be 20.. most C64s will have had them inside for over 30 years now, so they need to be replaced before they leak and make a mess of the motherboard.
There are liquids in the caps. If the liquids get out (in whatever way) the cap will loose its capacity. Electrolytic capacitors are self-healing devices: A little liquid lost will not alter its functionality in a meaningfull way. Only when the liquid is mostly gone, the functionality will start to detoriate.
A sign that a capacitor is aging is an increased series resistance. For example for a 1000uF capacitor you would expect a series resistance below 0.5 Ohm. If you measure more than 5 Ohm you know that the capacitor is dying, even though it may be working perfectly.
There are many ways in which a capacitor can age, but it is influenced by temperature and the frequency it needs to operate at. Capacitors at high temperatures die quicker than capacitors working at lower temperatures and capacitors working at higher frequencies die quicker than ones working at lower frequencies.
Personally I am not a fan of recapping a Commodore 64, because the problem is rare. It is so rare that we need to question wether it exists at all. Many generations of computers after the C64 have died because of bad capacitors, but the capacitors in the C64 just don't want to die.
Not only they don't die, measuring the series resistance shows generally that they are healthy. I always measure the series resistance of the main capacitors on C64s that I get under my hands and the capacitors show good values, suggesting that there are no failures to expect in the near future.
In my opinion every intervention has a risk attached. Just like you don't do surgery on humans unless there are very good reasons to do so, I don't want to do surgery on a C64 unless there are good reasons to do so. And should a capacitor break, it can be replaced at that moment, no reason to do it preventively.
That said, I do have a C64 in my "stuff bought on Ebay" box at the moment, that measures 780uF on one of the big capacitors that it supposed to be 1000uF. Series resistance is normal. Maybe capacitors problems do exist after all... but they remain rare. In any case, 20+% deviation is completely unacceptable, so that machine is going to receive a recap, even though it works fine.
> The only way to check them is to desolder and measure capacitance.
You can measure most C64 capacitors in-circuit. If all capacitors that can be measured in-circuit are okay, I tend to give the remaining ones the benefit of the doubt if the machine is working fine.
Daniël Mantione
what is the reason that some of the capacitors can not be measured in-circuit?
Is that glue gun actually made in Austria?
Hi. My c64 seams unstable. The cassette player works fine on another c64, but not this one. It will not respond when I press play, or rewind or anything. So I restart the c64, and perhaps it works again. I have measured it to 4,90v out on the cassette player port on the c64, and I have cleaned the contacts. Perhaps the 8500 chip is the problem then?
There are two voltages on the tape port: Normal +5V and +6V for the motor. Sounds like you measured the normal +5V only. The +6V is only there if the C64 wants the motor on.
Do something with the tape drive to make the C64 enable the tape motor, such as Shift+RunStop. Then you should be able to measure the +6V.
If you have a C64 with a short mainboard, if there is something wrong in the 9V AC power, the machine will start normally, but the tape motor and sound will not work. So if you have a short board, the cause might be in the 9V AC power. If you have a long board, this does not apply, long boards need a fully working power supply to start.
Thanks :) I need to test more when I get home from work. I think I have the short motherboard. 250469 rev 4. And I did not get 6v. There was no difference in voltage.
After checking the schematics: If you cannot measure +6V (between pin 1 and pin 3 of the casette port) in a situation where the motor should be running, measure the voltage over capacitor C63. You may also want to measure the voltage between ground and R3, it should be 5V in situations where the C64 wants to have the motor running.
Measuring pin 1 and pin 3 on the cassette port gives me 0 voltage and I pressed shift and run stop first. The voltage I measured between - and plus side of c63 gave me 11,77 - 11,9 it was varying. When the cassette player is working and I load a game, I do get sound. And now I managed to blow the fuse somehow, so I need to buy a new one.
Yeah those cursed fuses. I manage to blow them as well. Your C63 voltage is healthy. The +6V is generated out of it via a few transistors. Either there must be something wrong with the transistor circuit, or the pulse from the CPU via R3 is not coming through.
Its me, Thomas, just changed my nickname... you need a shipping address, "I guess"? 😂
The (currently) three dislikes on this video must be from people who solder in their capacitors the wrong way. :P
Most likely so! :D
34:45 An azimuth alignment program? Not something for end users to be sure! How are they supposed to load it if the tape drive isn't working?
Via disk drive, drive emulator, programmable cartridge etc. There are also cartridges with BASIC modified, and such tool builtin i.e. Black Box command
I would imagine this might be cart based..
the program is either on disk, or cartridge!
Exactly my question. Can anyone suggest where we find this tape alignment disk image or where you can obtain a cartridge please? Both my datasettes are misaligned, thanks
Jan posted the link to the .d64 file on a website at the top of this page in the description. This is the disk image which you can convert to a floppy, if you have the right software. I will add though, there are cassette alignment tapes which don't need you to load anything, I think Commodore Format gave one away years ago, so it may be online if you have a look for it on the internet.
Nice job you have done, again.
Can you also un-tangle the spiral cable of the wrist-strap? I can' t be wtaching it, like this.
Good morning friend, my name is Enrique I like to watch your videos on commodore 64, see that I have 4 computers I want to fix them, where I can get the chips, diodes and resistor, I'm also looking for a cable to connect the c64 to digital television, and the c64 deat test cartridge, I hope your kind answer
I would have opened that datassette up for cleaning and some grease.. then again I've never been in one so maybe it's a good way to ruin it further :D
Yes, that would definitely make sense. I guess I just wanted to get it working because the deal was only for the C64 future proofing and I'm lazy... ;)
I don't admit I'm lazy, I just.. emm.. optimize my resources, mostly ;)
LOL 25:00 to 26:05 -- That poor keyboard getting a workout from Jan
Women in the #METOO movement using this as a recruitment clip :( /jk
Not a single star trek joke...? resistance would have been futile if I was doing that video.
lol 1 video, 3 methods of desoldering.
I'll be the winner, if you like.
I cannot join patreon because im a felon. I could not enter. Terms of service rules. Unfair
There was a draw on the regular TH-cam channel, too. If the winner of that doesn't contact me soon, I'll do another draw.