GCN Tech covered this as a tip within one of their videos a few months ago. I used to not watch them because they were so roadie focused, but I gotta admit I get a ton of useful information from them with the caveat that the best tips are often buried within videos in their Everest sized mountain of content. They also did not demonstrate how to do it. The benefit of you making a dedicated video for this is that it's easier to find and reference, and that cannot be understated! Keep being awesome!
I was coming to see if someone had asked or answered this, and it's a great tip. Thanks. Just wondering if there's a specific product for it or can I just use anything that fits?
November is/was actually a pretty good custom wheelbuilder in New England. I feel like they’ve been less active lately, but I’m glad to see you promoting their shims. I use them on a few different wheelsets and bikes, and the system works flawlessly. Sometimes I forget that they even are on there and am surprised when I switch to another wheel/bike. Anyway, strong recommend.
World Tour teams have long been doing this for all their wheels. They have set standard size spacing for wheels and calipers to avoid rotor rubs. When swapping wheels.
I have this same issue on my rear second wheel only. I was just getting ready to search for some type of shim, so this is good timing. The Amazon seller must have been hammered with your video as when I looked, they were 3 weeks out from shipping, I found some through Boyd Cycling. Will have them Thursday.
Nice tip, I like it! I've got 4 wheel sets being shared between a 140mm full squish and a rigid bikepacking rig, it took a little while, but I trued the rotors on all 4 to 1 bike and set the caliper on the second bike to the rotors. Has worked well with no rubbing on either bike.
well made video. I used to do this until I got identical custom wheel sets which really was great when switching 4 sets of wheels between 2 or 3 different bikes same with the cassette. which isn't always 100% flawless but is 99% perfect.
Excellent. Overcame this issue by filing a tiny fraction off inside of the disc rotor,bringing it a fraction closer to the hub..was not aware that split washers were available though.
I've been swapping over whole wheel fork brake and cable as an assembly. Gets me from MTB to dad bike in about 5 minutes. Wish I'd have thought of this before I tracked down a wheelset with the same hubs, would have given me a lot more options.
Holy cow, i needed this video a couple months ago. I got a new wheel set that was slightly off my old, couple figure it out so had to take it to the LBS for them align across my wheels. Both back and front were off and longest time, i tought i messed up the set up being my first time tinkering
Rotor shims are great, I got mine off a czech guy on ebay but I hear jagwire does them too nowadays. My technique is to measure the distance from the lockring to the end of the end cap (assuming they're using the same lockring), the difference being what you need to shim. You can also do the same with cassettes for your wheelsets/turbo trainer. Some people will put up with having to adjust the tension/limit screws everytime they put the bike on the turbo, but not me...
Yes totally worth it. Hate having to adjust discs when swapping wheels. Adjusting pads on cable discs is easier of course and it's another argument to #savetherimbrake 😎
I'm in the process of ordering a new wheelset now. After this.. all other wheelsets I order will use the same hubs. I'm hoping that will allow changes without adjustments. If needed I will also move over the same discs (and cassette) as that's quicker and easier than making adjustments
I opted for two wheel sets with hubs by the same manufacturer. My bike came with Bontrager wheels which had rebranded DT Swiss hubs. Thus my second set of wheels had DT Swiss hubs and no shims required to align anything.
I have Bontrager Aeolus on rebranded DT360 24sp straightpull and other set built on DT360 28sp J-bend and while with cassettes it's almost plug and play (different size cassettes so maybe that's why small barrel adjustment makes it work better), with discs it as a huge difference for both wheels. Rotors are MT800 on other and RT800 (or whatever is the new unified version called) on Bontragers, need to swap rotors out of curiosity if it is rotors or hubs themselves
1. Aim for thinner shims. You probably need less than you might guess. 2. Try a bearing (engineering) supply shop. You might get more choice and spend less than with online / bike stores.
November is not an “Amazon brand” (at least they didn’t used to be…). For their wheelsets, their build quality is exceptional. I have two of their wheelsets, and have rarely, if ever, had to true them!
I've got this with a pair of Hunt wheels and another pair with Bitex hubs (brilliant by the way). They are very nearly right, so when I change the wheels, I just open up the gap between the pads a touch with a plastic blade so it doesn't gouge the pads. I think it's not a bad idea to do this anyway as it keeps the pistons moving freely
Could they easiest way to put the right number of spacers be to see how many of them you can slip without friction in between the caliper pad and the disk at its closest point (of the wider gap side) ?
I have QR, not thru-axle frame and fork, and I have rotor rubbing every time I swap a wheel but I stopped caring about it because its easier than to readjust my pads every time.
I used to work in a shop where we'd assemble different wheels and bikes for customers. Here in Zürich it's not uncommon that customers get a bike and buy 3 or 4 different wheelset with it (aero, climbing, training and maybe something else too) we've only worked with those shims (on the disc and cassette) because getting the same hub isn't going to cut it. We've worked very closely with dt swiss (best hubs in the game) and they couldn't provide us with wheels where the same 180 or 240 hub model in a different wheel would have the same exact tolerance. If you really want to make it right, then you have to adjust each wheel and check for the recommended torque on the axle as well.
That has to be the biggest markup of a product i have ever seen:D Right next to the air filter of my refrigerator that has 5 grams of activated carbon in it and costs 20 bucks if youre stupid enough to buy it:D
If one wheel set is CenterLock and the other ISO 6 bolt, and the Centerlock is already pushing the rotor outward farther, do you have to find 6 little shim washers for the ISO wheel? I assume so...
Takes just as long for me to adjust the caliper than to put shims in,maybe faster,loosen 2 caliper bolts ,sqeeze brake & tighten 2 screws,washers are like take the looong route around the corner
Did you just weigh a shim? I'm a mountainbiker, slowly getting attracted to the road, but some things I'll never understand I'm afraid haha. Good tip though
I'm trying to figure out why the rotor rubs on 2 different wheels. Do they have different hub or are the tolerances that far off? I had 2 sets of wheels for my fat bike, but I never had to adjust my caliper or rotors, just swap and go.
Cassette spacing bugs me more. I have enough pad clearance that rotors never rub. They do deflect a tiny bit when braking but its nothing that warps my rotors so I don't care.
0.25mm sounds too big. The pad clearance on shimano is usually in the region of 0.25 mm per side. For sram it's less. Also if the caliper is not absolutely perfectly centered, you will get rubbing with sprinting or riding out of the saddle when the frame is flexing. Buy standard 0.1mm adjusting washers and split them diy.
No. First, only one, not any: you need only particular diameter. Second, it is a standard for bolt washers, they are simply too thick.On top of having too big of an outer diameter. Shim rings are DIN 988
Fun fact: calipers have a degree of self-alignment. So unless the difference is over a whole mm and makes the rotor rub agains caliper body itself, shims are not necessary. One or two firm presses on a brake lever and pads find their place.
@@redkeyspoke Yes (across my 5 wheel sets). Adjust your brake cable with your widest rims and barrel adjuster all the way in. Then use the barrel adjuster when using your narrower wheels.
GCN Tech covered this as a tip within one of their videos a few months ago. I used to not watch them because they were so roadie focused, but I gotta admit I get a ton of useful information from them with the caveat that the best tips are often buried within videos in their Everest sized mountain of content. They also did not demonstrate how to do it.
The benefit of you making a dedicated video for this is that it's easier to find and reference, and that cannot be understated!
Keep being awesome!
Great Tip, you can shim cassettes aswell. I’ve done it on my trainer so both cassettes are bang on with the derailleur
I was going to ask, good to know thanks
Great tip!
I was coming to see if someone had asked or answered this, and it's a great tip. Thanks. Just wondering if there's a specific product for it or can I just use anything that fits?
What shims do you use for the casette’s?
Been using washers since the centerlock was introduced lol. Local hardware shop sells the same washer for cents per piece.😂
👍 nice work!
November is/was actually a pretty good custom wheelbuilder in New England. I feel like they’ve been less active lately, but I’m glad to see you promoting their shims. I use them on a few different wheelsets and bikes, and the system works flawlessly. Sometimes I forget that they even are on there and am surprised when I switch to another wheel/bike. Anyway, strong recommend.
Oh nice! Didn’t know the brand
World Tour teams have long been doing this for all their wheels. They have set standard size spacing for wheels and calipers to avoid rotor rubs. When swapping wheels.
I just had this pain when swapping between gravel wheels and deeper road wheels, this method makes perfect sense, will definitely try it out 😜
I have this same issue on my rear second wheel only. I was just getting ready to search for some type of shim, so this is good timing. The Amazon seller must have been hammered with your video as when I looked, they were 3 weeks out from shipping, I found some through Boyd Cycling. Will have them Thursday.
Nice tip, I like it! I've got 4 wheel sets being shared between a 140mm full squish and a rigid bikepacking rig, it took a little while, but I trued the rotors on all 4 to 1 bike and set the caliper on the second bike to the rotors. Has worked well with no rubbing on either bike.
well made video. I used to do this until I got identical custom wheel sets which really was great when switching 4 sets of wheels between 2 or 3 different bikes same with the cassette. which isn't always 100% flawless but is 99% perfect.
Excellent. Overcame this issue by filing a tiny fraction off inside of the disc rotor,bringing it a fraction closer to the hub..was not aware that split washers were available though.
Didn't know these existed!
I had to buy same wheels to be free of this hassle. Now I know there's a better way, thanks!!
I love the illustration of the hub! Nice addition to a tutorial video :)
Yes! Someone noticed 🙏
I said “beautiful” out loud when the second wheel spun freely lol
Fantastic and timely. I am in the middle of this issue now.
Cool. Much appreciated. I run two wheel sets on my Revolt.
I've been swapping over whole wheel fork brake and cable as an assembly. Gets me from MTB to dad bike in about 5 minutes. Wish I'd have thought of this before I tracked down a wheelset with the same hubs, would have given me a lot more options.
Genius. Thanks for this
Holy cow, i needed this video a couple months ago. I got a new wheel set that was slightly off my old, couple figure it out so had to take it to the LBS for them align across my wheels. Both back and front were off and longest time, i tought i messed up the set up being my first time tinkering
Rotor shims are great, I got mine off a czech guy on ebay but I hear jagwire does them too nowadays. My technique is to measure the distance from the lockring to the end of the end cap (assuming they're using the same lockring), the difference being what you need to shim. You can also do the same with cassettes for your wheelsets/turbo trainer. Some people will put up with having to adjust the tension/limit screws everytime they put the bike on the turbo, but not me...
Beautiful. Ordering some shims because I have the exact same problem! Thanks!!!!
Yes totally worth it. Hate having to adjust discs when swapping wheels. Adjusting pads on cable discs is easier of course and it's another argument to #savetherimbrake 😎
I'm in the process of ordering a new wheelset now. After this.. all other wheelsets I order will use the same hubs. I'm hoping that will allow changes without adjustments. If needed I will also move over the same discs (and cassette) as that's quicker and easier than making adjustments
I opted for two wheel sets with hubs by the same manufacturer. My bike came with Bontrager wheels which had rebranded DT Swiss hubs. Thus my second set of wheels had DT Swiss hubs and no shims required to align anything.
I have Bontrager Aeolus on rebranded DT360 24sp straightpull and other set built on DT360 28sp J-bend and while with cassettes it's almost plug and play (different size cassettes so maybe that's why small barrel adjustment makes it work better), with discs it as a huge difference for both wheels. Rotors are MT800 on other and RT800 (or whatever is the new unified version called) on Bontragers, need to swap rotors out of curiosity if it is rotors or hubs themselves
1. Aim for thinner shims. You probably need less than you might guess.
2. Try a bearing (engineering) supply shop. You might get more choice and spend less than with online / bike stores.
Great tip! Great video! So nice to learn something new.
McMaster has thinner 0.1 shims for a more precise fit and they're cheaper
Oh nice. Thx for that
link to site
November is not an “Amazon brand” (at least they didn’t used to be…). For their wheelsets, their build quality is exceptional. I have two of their wheelsets, and have rarely, if ever, had to true them!
Very useful tip - thanks for sharing!
Wow, thanks for posting this. I had no idea 😊
Can't say I've ever had this problem with my stock diverge dismiss wheels and my bontrager aeolus wheels.
I've got this with a pair of Hunt wheels and another pair with Bitex hubs (brilliant by the way). They are very nearly right, so when I change the wheels, I just open up the gap between the pads a touch with a plastic blade so it doesn't gouge the pads. I think it's not a bad idea to do this anyway as it keeps the pistons moving freely
Every time you do this (even sightly) without cleaning the pistons, you're pushing dirty pistons in so not ideal.
You could probably get like 20 of the same dimensional shim from McMaster for less than $16 shipped. Like maybe part # 98089A284.
FYI pack of 10 with shipping + tax is $22
These don't seem to be split. How did you get them past the centerlock splines?
Brilliant! Totally worth it.
Great info, also short and to the point👍
Wow great tip. Thanks!
Awesome video, thanx!
Could they easiest way to put the right number of spacers be to see how many of them you can slip without friction in between the caliper pad and the disk at its closest point (of the wider gap side) ?
I have QR, not thru-axle frame and fork, and I have rotor rubbing every time I swap a wheel but I stopped caring about it because its easier than to readjust my pads every time.
the price is a crime. but I still bought and use them. wish there was some competition in the space!
Great tip!
brilliant, thanks!
Such a simple but genius tip! Thank you!!!
I had a set of thin washers at each of the 6bolts under the disc... also worked and not $16
The concept still applies
Rides of Japan made a video on this exact topic a while back. The easiest solution was to get the same hubs across both wheel sets.
Certainly not the cheapest option tho..
That would be HELLA expensive to do. Especially if you own 3+ different wheelsets.
was just thinking that , took as long to just re set up
I used to work in a shop where we'd assemble different wheels and bikes for customers. Here in Zürich it's not uncommon that customers get a bike and buy 3 or 4 different wheelset with it (aero, climbing, training and maybe something else too) we've only worked with those shims (on the disc and cassette) because getting the same hub isn't going to cut it. We've worked very closely with dt swiss (best hubs in the game) and they couldn't provide us with wheels where the same 180 or 240 hub model in a different wheel would have the same exact tolerance. If you really want to make it right, then you have to adjust each wheel and check for the recommended torque on the axle as well.
@@TheBikeSauceUnless you know this before getting the 2nd wheelset.
I have several wheelset and don't need to re-adjust since all my hubs is made by standard and default specifications.
Super smart!!!!!!!!!!!
I can realign the brake disc more quickly, or get 10 aluminum washers from the hardware store for the brake disc
Dope. Thanks!
That has to be the biggest markup of a product i have ever seen:D
Right next to the air filter of my refrigerator that has 5 grams of activated carbon in it and costs 20 bucks if youre stupid enough to buy it:D
this is actually such a great trick! thanks
I really wish I had this problem *cries quietly in single wheelset despair*
Genius!
If you using a gravel bike or one all round bike for road and gravel, this is a decent solution. 👍
If one wheel set is CenterLock and the other ISO 6 bolt, and the Centerlock is already pushing the rotor outward farther, do you have to find 6 little shim washers for the ISO wheel? I assume so...
They exist, Syntace made them back in 2015. I don't know if they're still making them now.
Great idea, but currently unavailable on Amazon.
Does it apply to the rear wheel too?
Yea same process
Lucky both my bikes agree with each other with all 4 wheelsets
Great demo! What if the second set has a longer hub + rotor length?
Then the 2nd set begins the 1st set. Adjust the caliper to the hub with the most outboard rotor
Oh hell yeah.
Looks like the shims aren't available on Amzn right now. Is there an alternate source, or dimensions?
Fantastic
Awesome find!
What is the id & od of the shims?
ebay - Shim Washers 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.5mm Thick DIN 988 High Quality 304 Stainless Steels M35x45x0.2mm 5pcs at $5.94
The hero we all need!
Interesting product 👍
Takes just as long for me to adjust the caliper than to put shims in,maybe faster,loosen 2 caliper bolts ,sqeeze brake & tighten 2 screws,washers are like take the looong route around the corner
😆😆
difference is, you put shims only once per lifetime of the rotor. While caliper adjustment is needed every wheel swap.
Did you just weigh a shim? I'm a mountainbiker, slowly getting attracted to the road, but some things I'll never understand I'm afraid haha. Good tip though
I'm trying to figure out why the rotor rubs on 2 different wheels. Do they have different hub or are the tolerances that far off? I had 2 sets of wheels for my fat bike, but I never had to adjust my caliper or rotors, just swap and go.
Different hubs
my issue is the cassette! and im using the same kind of solution. or im gonna try anyway
Is there something like this for hubs? So that you don’t have to retune the rear D eqch time you swap wheel sets
Probably not.
Instantly sold-out / not available
Cassette spacing bugs me more. I have enough pad clearance that rotors never rub. They do deflect a tiny bit when braking but its nothing that warps my rotors so I don't care.
Can’t find a six bolt variant shim. Anyone got a link? TIA.
Syntace made them in 2015, not sure if they're still in production. Use the search term "6-bolt rotor shim".
I think its quicker to just reset the caliper ?🤔
Once you install shims, you don’t have to mess with calipers at all
Nice. It never ends with disc brakes 😢
😆😆
Seems to be a bit of GENIUS hyper-inflation going on….
‘Very Smart Tip for Bikes w 2 Wheelsets’ didn’t have the same oomph
november is not an amazon brand. wtf are you taking about?
Here's what I do. I loosen BOTH caliper bolts, squeeze brake, and evenly tighten the bolts, they self center this way.
Thats what he’s trying to eliminate, The whole reason for this video.
@@phillevin6651ok, but it takes a minute.
It takes more than a minute, but yea some can do it faster than others
@@mazescopak405 That doesn't work for every single frame and fork. Sometimes I had to center manually.
Easier to just get a second bike for the second wheelset
😆 there you go
I can buy another hub with the price of these shims lmao
0.25mm sounds too big. The pad clearance on shimano is usually in the region of 0.25 mm per side. For sram it's less. Also if the caliper is not absolutely perfectly centered, you will get rubbing with sprinting or riding out of the saddle when the frame is flexing. Buy standard 0.1mm adjusting washers and split them diy.
It’s fine enough resolution for my bones so far. A thinner shim could help in some cases tho
#ProTip 🚴✨✨
Any ISO 7089 spacer will do. Buy it for some cents at your local hardware store.
No. First, only one, not any: you need only particular diameter. Second, it is a standard for bolt washers, they are simply too thick.On top of having too big of an outer diameter. Shim rings are DIN 988
@@feedbackzaloop You're right about DIN 988. Thanks for the correction!
Fun fact: calipers have a degree of self-alignment. So unless the difference is over a whole mm and makes the rotor rub agains caliper body itself, shims are not necessary. One or two firm presses on a brake lever and pads find their place.
Nah man. Give it a try
@@TheBikeSauce never had to. Except when rotors were 1...1,5mm off. But I can understand that acoustic pleasure of zero rub right off the bat.
Maybe in the MTB world, but not the road disc world.
@@lastfm4477 those worlds are not that really different when you don't cook rotors on the road. Tough call, I know.
Much easier to switch wheels for rim brake bikes. I have 3 sets of wheels.
Is it though? Brake track and external width can vary with different rims. I'm a rim brake user myself, but there are pros and cons to both systems.
It’s really not the pad height needs adjusting too
@@redkeyspoke for different widths you have a barrel adjuster... Radius-wise there is no difference.
@@archieman123 I've never had that problem.
@@redkeyspoke Yes (across my 5 wheel sets). Adjust your brake cable with your widest rims and barrel adjuster all the way in. Then use the barrel adjuster when using your narrower wheels.
First 🎉