Now that’s a real world walk-in problem. Those leaks and humidity problems are prevalent in our trade. I would start by having them empty the box and warm it up. Wipe it down dry and put a fan in there. Use a hair dryer paint stripper gun to do those button ( remove all ) . R&R the two heater safety and fan delay. Once it’s down to temp, run through a defrost cycle. Use 30 minutes X every 6 hrs. If the delay comes out too soon, get a lower temperature rated one. You’ll want the droplets to re-freeze on the coil. That will eliminates the humidity cloud or water droplets that are spit off the coil. Sometimes a bad drain will have that pan heater boiling the condensate into steam in the box. They’re supposed to have a very steep pitch on low temp units and trapped outside the unit.
That relay is for two speed operation of evaporator fan motors. The electrical drawing shows how to bypass it and run fans at full speed all the time except in defrost. Otherwise the fans run at full speed when the solenoid is on and half speed when the box is at temperature. I agree with you the box is poorly assembled and warm air is penetrating the seams. Perhaps some aluminium colored silicone could be used to seal panel seams. But it will be difficult to have it adhere with the box in service. Our company use to do the refrigeration part of walk in installs for a large local construction company and they would assemble the boxes. However we found the same issues that you found when they assembled the boxes. So we no longer do work for them unless we assemble the boxes and do the refrigeration part as well.
Thanks- that is some good information- I told them they would have to let the box warm up before I could even attempt to seal the seams - there fighting with the company that installed it I believe
Yes, there is a breach in the seam between the ceiling and the wall behind the coil. Also I couldent help notice there was a lack of a P trap in the suction line behind the coil
Great video. Seams there are two issues here. A leaking roof and not so great installation of the box. My experience tells me the roof needs to be done first. If you seal the box with silicone all it will do is hold moisture back until the silicone fails. In the mean time the water will continue to expand and contract and cause additional damage to the box. Just my thoughts. Thanks and keep them coming.
Familia Sanchez HVAC I would recommend the top down approach. Roof should still be under warranty as the box is. Have the roofer make sure there are no leaks. Then follow Bills advice. He was there on behalf of the factory. U may possibly be able to get box installers out to tighten up the box. Hold the subs accountable if possible. Those r just a few suggestions or directions u can head. Thanks for asking
I love your and Chris videos. I am a Millwright by trade. As such understanding other trades is a big part of my job. I enjoy watching you guys diagnose issues and repairing. Some of your tips and tricks have helped me in my line of work. Refrigeration systems are often combined with plant systems I repair. So understanding when that part of the system is at fault greatly reduces diagnosis times in some cases. Keep up the good work!
I have built quite a few freezers in the past and have always silicone the tongue of the panels before assembly to ensure a air tight seam . Our health department would not allow any silicone in the seam as a repair. It does not look like your panels are cammed together properly. You would have to release all the cams and start over reassembling each panel . Good luck!
Yeah and so far I was told they are having the original installing company come back and fix those seams-- so well see what they do if Im called back for a follow up
You walk into another fine installation by others , silicone the gaps not best way to resolve problem . Shutting down an letting box completely thraw out the box an turning those cams to pull seal together proper would ultimately be the best way . Anyway good luck with that repair ! Note - use a fan in box or jump evap fans on during sealing , blow fumes out of box . Thanks on video
Hey Curious good video, You probably have a small roof leak that’s what’s separating those panels, but the frost on the ceiling is warm air infiltration and needs a door curtain. Also you need to find their delivery schedule and set the defrosts when they are likely stocking it, thanks for sharing bud.
Wouldn't infrared thermometer help out if warm air is coming in? Also, i have found major roof leakage from where the lineset penetrates the roof. The foam insulation deteriorates and allows for snow and rain to get inside. I made a huge stainless steel snorkel at one location to cover up all the lines coming from a packaged refrigeration unit. If you can get to roof of freezer you can seal it with a Home Depot product called Tropi-cool. Its pretty good. But surface must be clean and dry. 2 coats if need be.
Butyl seems and add strips of sheet metal. That's what I've done. Mainly for boxes falling apart and sites not looking to replace. May or may not work for you . Good video.
Well the thing is that the seal is supposed to be on the outside of the box otherwise ice gets in the seams and pushes the panels apart. For outside exposure the top should also have a slope. You also know that the seal on the edges will also be blown. So do you leave em where they sit and blow them with foam or try to re-unite them. Do you lay a polybutyl rubber roofing membrane or add a porch roof section. Obviously the configuration was not meant to sit outside, nor was the vapor seal material they used. And the edges of the panels also need to be sealed and flashed.
I have an 18 year old freezer box and we're getting ice similar to this on our ceiling. Could the gaskets between the panels be shrinking or some other way spreading apart? What if I simply put a silicone caulk bead on the outside of the box on the seems? That would stop future air leak, right? Then shut down freezer until ice melts, mop it up and turn back on? Contractor is quoting 2k to loosen cams and re-tighten. Thanks!
hi curious. i had an exact same ice and water form walk in freezer problem. i watched your part 2 video. wondering whats was the real problem and what was the soution was.. thx again
A problem I noticed is the guttering is not the correct type nor are the seems water tight. That would leave water standing on the roof instead of flowing off and the bead of caulk someone put on is preventing water from flowing off the roof as well. I would start with that and call a roofer.
throttle bottle on the installs I have done like this one the roofers always put a pitch on the box after we assembled it. While it may look flat to you and assuming the roofers do their job then there should be buildup material laid first before the roof is actually put on. Here in Oklahoma the inspector has to approve the buildup and pitch before they can roof it.
Think you're in the right track with that box. I'm in northeast Ohio. I've seen some Norlake, it's ok. Some of their uprights are really cheap. Their tech support can be really hit or miss, like extremes either way. At least in my experience.
Butel tape after you let the box dry out is what we do When we have this problem. but its not normal to see on a new box. Poor install. Norlake boxes are normally pretty nice
I encounter that kind of situation but my finding is different...in my case the door leaks and moisture goes inside then it build up moistures the installer of chiller didnt make a proper installations of panel and didnt install also heater on door frame. When i did all the necessary things the walk in freezer works like a charm and didnt encounter same problem since then
I know it isn't standard practice... But sometimes depending on the evaporator and set up, you can run fans under defrost, when your heatrods are in the back of the evaporator, then you will warm up the evaporator faster and therefore have a shorter defrost time..
@@curioushvacguy6876 yes.. It is the best thing to do if you're rodes don't go through the middle.. A lot of gondola freezers are made to run fans during Def.. And that's because the heatrodes aren't in the middle.. And it's also something you learn when becoming a refrigeration engineer.. So I'm 100% sure it works
Late to the party but I notice you had Standing water during you defrost. In my experience the water standing in the drain pan will steam up with the pan heaters. also I didn't see a trap and sometimes the fans can suck up air thought the drain.
If under warranty, I would make the box installer/seller, make repairs! And if falls back to a roof leak. Then, repair roof,and do as you suggest to dehumidifier the box and reseal. That's just my thinking if I were the owner.
Even beyond code violations in some places, that is just plain old hack grade work. The owner or tenant should be livid with that job on the roof supports at a minimum. Some people just take no pride in their work, or are so incompetent that it's frustrating. And on a brand new install, too. Shaking my head.
Hey, I am from Philippines and may we ask if how can we clean the floor, walls, and ceiling of our walk in freezer without turning it off? We are working in a meat processing company. Thank you in advance.
Yea I'm gonna guess ambient air is getting in. Thawing and sealing the box is probably the only way I can think of. Note to self, if installing a box seal it tight
I dont have a brand in mind, I just grab a tube of cold rated caulk from my locak refrigeration supply house-- hard part is getting them to shut it down and warm up so I could actually apply the caulk
Im in Michigan near the Monroe area- not interested in doing a co video right now, no offense just to much going on for me outside of work, but maybe in the future
Ha Ha were we on the phone when you left the blade off?? I remember talking to you about this one!
Lol- see, you distracted me
@@curioushvacguy6876 ii
Another one where the install guys have done a less than stellar job and you're left picking up the pieces .
Good vid 👍
yes
Now that’s a real world walk-in problem. Those leaks and humidity problems are prevalent in our trade. I would start by having them empty the box and warm it up. Wipe it down dry and put a fan in there. Use a hair dryer paint stripper gun to do those button ( remove all ) . R&R the two heater safety and fan delay. Once it’s down to temp, run through a defrost cycle. Use 30 minutes X every 6 hrs. If the delay comes out too soon, get a lower temperature rated one. You’ll want the droplets to re-freeze on the coil. That will eliminates the humidity cloud or water droplets that are spit off the coil. Sometimes a bad drain will have that pan heater boiling the condensate into steam in the box. They’re supposed to have a very steep pitch on low temp units and trapped outside the unit.
I can get behind that idea- Im supposed to do a follow up visit soon if they ever approve my quote so I hope to get some sort of closure
That relay is for two speed operation of evaporator fan motors.
The electrical drawing shows how to bypass it and run fans at full speed all the time except in defrost.
Otherwise the fans run at full speed when the solenoid is on and half speed when the box is at temperature.
I agree with you the box is poorly assembled and warm air is penetrating the seams.
Perhaps some aluminium colored silicone could be used to seal panel seams.
But it will be difficult to have it adhere with the box in service.
Our company use to do the refrigeration part of walk in installs for a large local construction company and they would assemble the boxes.
However we found the same issues that you found when they assembled the boxes.
So we no longer do work for them unless we assemble the boxes and do the refrigeration part as well.
Thanks- that is some good information- I told them they would have to let the box warm up before I could even attempt to seal the seams - there fighting with the company that installed it I believe
Call Chris and describe the big picture to him.
I actually had him on the phone when I forgot to put the fan blade back on
maybe get swag aswell
BigClive Sent me to your channel. Said you were interesting to watch. He is correct. Good show. Subscribed!
Same here, man. I just remembered Clive mentioning this channel last night and thought I'd check it out. Interesting stuff.
Thanks for the sub! Big Clive is super cool dude
Thanks for the support- much appreciated
Yes, there is a breach in the seam between the ceiling and the wall behind the coil. Also I couldent help notice there was a lack of a P trap in the suction line behind the coil
Great video. Seams there are two issues here. A leaking roof and not so great installation of the box. My experience tells me the roof needs to be done first. If you seal the box with silicone all it will do is hold moisture back until the silicone fails. In the mean time the water will continue to expand and contract and cause additional damage to the box. Just my thoughts. Thanks and keep them coming.
Retread What would you do in this situation?
Familia Sanchez HVAC I would recommend the top down approach. Roof should still be under warranty as the box is. Have the roofer make sure there are no leaks. Then follow Bills advice. He was there on behalf of the factory. U may possibly be able to get box installers out to tighten up the box. Hold the subs accountable if possible. Those r just a few suggestions or directions u can head. Thanks for asking
Thanks for the tips!
I love your and Chris videos. I am a Millwright by trade. As such understanding other trades is a big part of my job. I enjoy watching you guys diagnose issues and repairing. Some of your tips and tricks have helped me in my line of work. Refrigeration systems are often combined with plant systems I repair. So understanding when that part of the system is at fault greatly reduces diagnosis times in some cases. Keep up the good work!
Thanks - glad you enjoy the content
I have built quite a few freezers in the past and have always silicone the tongue of the panels before assembly to ensure a air tight seam . Our health department would not allow any silicone in the seam as a repair. It does not look like your panels are cammed together properly. You would have to release all the cams and start over reassembling each panel . Good luck!
Yeah and so far I was told they are having the original installing company come back and fix those seams-- so well see what they do if Im called back for a follow up
@@curioushvacguy6876 Yea they should be responsible to fix any air leaks .
You walk into another fine installation by others , silicone the gaps not best way to resolve problem . Shutting down an letting box completely thraw out the box an turning those cams to pull seal together proper would ultimately be the best way . Anyway good luck with that repair ! Note - use a fan in box or jump evap fans on during sealing , blow fumes out of box . Thanks on video
Thanks for the info - much appreciated
Hey Curious good video, You probably have a small roof leak that’s what’s separating those panels, but the frost on the ceiling is warm air infiltration and needs a door curtain. Also you need to find their delivery schedule and set the defrosts when they are likely stocking it, thanks for sharing bud.
Good points Chris- thanks for bringing that to my attention
I like the way you leave your mistakes in your videos, another great video 👍
Thanks for the support
Wouldn't infrared thermometer help out if warm air is coming in? Also, i have found major roof leakage from where the lineset penetrates the roof. The foam insulation deteriorates and allows for snow and rain to get inside. I made a huge stainless steel snorkel at one location to cover up all the lines coming from a packaged refrigeration unit. If you can get to roof of freezer you can seal it with a Home Depot product called Tropi-cool. Its pretty good. But surface must be clean and dry. 2 coats if need be.
Greg M IR read surface temperature not air. There is a chance it would pick it up but just may be.
yes sir
Butyl seems and add strips of sheet metal. That's what I've done. Mainly for boxes falling apart and sites not looking to replace. May or may not work for you . Good video.
Thanks
Well the thing is that the seal is supposed to be on the outside of the box otherwise ice gets in the seams and pushes the panels apart. For outside exposure the top should also have a slope. You also know that the seal on the edges will also be blown. So do you leave em where they sit and blow them with foam or try to re-unite them. Do you lay a polybutyl rubber roofing membrane or add a porch roof section. Obviously the configuration was not meant to sit outside, nor was the vapor seal material they used. And the edges of the panels also need to be sealed and flashed.
your exactly right--
Good day, sir.
Was the problem resolved after you silicone the seams? I actually have the same problem.
Santo
Toronto, Canada
I have an 18 year old freezer box and we're getting ice similar to this on our ceiling. Could the gaskets between the panels be shrinking or some other way spreading apart? What if I simply put a silicone caulk bead on the outside of the box on the seems? That would stop future air leak, right? Then shut down freezer until ice melts, mop it up and turn back on? Contractor is quoting 2k to loosen cams and re-tighten. Thanks!
hi curious. i had an exact same ice and water form walk in freezer problem. i watched your part 2 video. wondering whats was the real problem and what was the soution was.. thx again
Did you check if there was a siphon in the drain ? If no siphon it might suck outside air in to the evaporator.
Frozen moisture, one of the worst kinds...lol. nice video!
It really is!
Very Interesting. Water is coming from somewhere. More than can be pulled out. You'll get it or like you said, this'll be the end of it. Thanks, Pal!
Thanks
Perhaps some sort of vibratory device during defrost to shake down droplets into gravity well?
You sir are guilty of distracted mechanic-ing.
your exactly right--
A problem I noticed is the guttering is not the correct type nor are the seems water tight. That would leave water standing on the roof instead of flowing off and the bead of caulk someone put on is preventing water from flowing off the roof as well. I would start with that and call a roofer.
flat cooler is flat go figure LOL! I'm guessing they didn't want to PAY to put a real pitched roof on top...
throttle bottle on the installs I have done like this one the roofers always put a pitch on the box after we assembled it. While it may look flat to you and assuming the roofers do their job then there should be buildup material laid first before the roof is actually put on. Here in Oklahoma the inspector has to approve the buildup and pitch before they can roof it.
your exactly right--
correct
makes sense
You have to use nyloc nuts on those fan blades to keep them from falling off the motors. The star washer nuts don't do so well.
Think you're in the right track with that box.
I'm in northeast Ohio. I've seen some Norlake, it's ok. Some of their uprights are really cheap. Their tech support can be really hit or miss, like extremes either way. At least in my experience.
your exactly right-- thanks for watching
Butel tape after you let the box dry out is what we do When we have this problem. but its not normal to see on a new box. Poor install. Norlake boxes are normally pretty nice
Good point
I encounter that kind of situation but my finding is different...in my case the door leaks and moisture goes inside then it build up moistures the installer of chiller didnt make a proper installations of panel and didnt install also heater on door frame. When i did all the necessary things the walk in freezer works like a charm and didnt encounter same problem since then
I know it isn't standard practice... But sometimes depending on the evaporator and set up, you can run fans under defrost, when your heatrods are in the back of the evaporator, then you will warm up the evaporator faster and therefore have a shorter defrost time..
Interesting- I never thought of that, have you done that before ?
@@curioushvacguy6876 yes.. It is the best thing to do if you're rodes don't go through the middle.. A lot of gondola freezers are made to run fans during Def.. And that's because the heatrodes aren't in the middle..
And it's also something you learn when becoming a refrigeration engineer..
So I'm 100% sure it works
@@curioushvacguy6876 is there any update.. I'm dying to know what happened
I wonder if a thermal image camera would be of good use for this issue.
Familia Sanchez HVAC better that than an IR.
That would be cool
Gonna need a new tool for my birthday now
Late to the party but I notice you had Standing water during you defrost. In my experience the water standing in the drain pan will steam up with the pan heaters. also I didn't see a trap and sometimes the fans can suck up air thought the drain.
If under warranty, I would make the box installer/seller, make repairs! And if falls back to a roof leak. Then, repair roof,and do as you suggest to dehumidifier the box and reseal. That's just my thinking if I were the owner.
Your exactly right- I think thats whats happening right now because I havent gotten called back yet
Even beyond code violations in some places, that is just plain old hack grade work. The owner or tenant should be livid with that job on the roof supports at a minimum. Some people just take no pride in their work, or are so incompetent that it's frustrating. And on a brand new install, too. Shaking my head.
your exactly right--
Good finding. The panels are having a good gap between them. And definitely is construction issue of the Box.
Stay healthy Bill.
your exactly right--
thanks
I'm sure they got exactly what they paid for.
your exactly right--
Install a 24" fan in doorway facing out, block off rest of entrance and check for leaks with ciggybutt.
Hey, I am from Philippines and may we ask if how can we clean the floor, walls, and ceiling of our walk in freezer without turning it off? We are working in a meat processing company. Thank you in advance.
Yea I'm gonna guess ambient air is getting in. Thawing and sealing the box is probably the only way I can think of. Note to self, if installing a box seal it tight
at 8:07 looks to be holding too much water in the pan also.
Thanks
What silver caulk do you use?
I dont have a brand in mind, I just grab a tube of cold rated caulk from my locak refrigeration supply house-- hard part is getting them to shut it down and warm up so I could actually apply the caulk
@@curioushvacguy6876 im curious the steps you took to pull the moisture out behind the wall panels
Surprised at how quiet those fans are
Awesome video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
maybe they have the employee's wet moping the box floors nightly...... nothing would surprise me lol!
Good point- Ive seen that a few times as well
Interesting video !
Thanks!
Very nice
Thanks
Another excellent video 👍👍👍
Thanks again!
Bill stay safe
Thanks
Wow way to go install guys
lol
Use MS polymer to seal seams, that's all what you need
Would I need to let the box get warm to install it?
@@curioushvacguy6876 no apply immediately. I use Affix make it's a magic product. Search in TH-cam ms polymer
Thats a loooong down time in my area..
I though I was the only one that gets the cart before the horse.
Your not alone
How u doing Bill , I hope all is well 👍
Doing good bud- hope your staying healthy
Nice video,,,,,,if you have termo camera,,,,you sort out the problem,,,😀
Thanks for the tip
Gandolf?
'I may not be a roofer but...'
lool
How to remove ice on fans
Didn’t know you was in Michigan, where at? I’m laid off right now would love to come up and do a video with you!! Message me if you’re interested
Im in Michigan near the Monroe area- not interested in doing a co video right now, no offense just to much going on for me outside of work, but maybe in the future
Sometimes we forget something...
I hope you told that company whoever half ass put in that box really half ass it.
I did elude to that, lol
Note to self. A motor without the blade doesn’t move air.
your exactly right--
I bet them darned HVAC/R guys put holes in the roofing :))))))
cant be dropping cigarette butts or zip screws up there lol
👍🤘
#hvacrnorth #hvacovertime
Thanks
Looks more like four defrost, not three
👍
Thanks
Bulb mounted wrong. God damn installers at it again. Just a horrible job all around.
Which bulb are you referring to?
Curious HVAC Guy the txv bulb. Mounted vertically, unless that’s factory..I doubt that on a refer unit..
👍👍❤❤
Tonka box is even worse
Ive never worked on one of those boxes- what are some of there common issues ?
Stay at a Holiday Inn Express then you can fix the roof
lol
Stay safe
Thanks
S/O is not okay on a roof. 😂
I didnt think so
Norlake makes crap to begin with and I think the rest is obvious
Thanks
#96 thumbs uP
Thanks
more standex garbage boxes....i deal with the same shit on every new standex brand boxes that is installed....master leak & norlake
So this isnt an isolated issue
😂😂