Roland HP-230 Digital Piano Key removal for contact repair HP-3700 HP-800 HP-2700 KR-4700 KR-5000
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2015
- How to remove and replace keys on a Roland HP-230 Digital Piano. Technique should also apparently work with Roland HP-2700, HP-3700, KR-4700, KR-5000, Rhodes MK-80, A-80, RD-300, HP-1000, HP-1200, HP-5600, HP-1800 (likely any "SK-6" keyboard, or Style K20W keys). Caution when opening unit, dangerous voltage inside even after removing power cord. Capacitors can hold dangerous charge for some time after removal from power. Info in video is for qualified repairers only. Open at own risk and remove power cable first.
Includes plans at the end of video to build your own key removal tool (SK-6 Key removal lever alternative) from a thick steel paperclip. Straighten the paper clip wire first and then follow the directions at the end of the video for correct bending measurements. Also see my other tutorial for how to open the case (lid) at • How to open Roland HP-... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Thanks man 6 years later your video help me fix my Mother keybord from a candel spill
That's good to hear, mine has since been passed on to a new owner.
Thanks a million for this. I knew there had to be tabs to depress somewhere to get the keys out, but had no idea how to get at them. The paper clip tool worked great on my HP700. Thanks!
Glad it helped and thanks for the feedback on the HP700.
Thank you. I’m attempting a repair on a neighbors HP 800 which I believe was made around 1987. Besides massive amounts of cat hair, some liquids and various other debris have infiltrated the piano. There are two keys that have issues. One is excessively loud and the other works maybe every 40 pushes. After watching this video I was able to remove the non-working key. I have hope that I’ll be able to clean/repair the contact of the non-working key when I get back to it at a later date. There’s really no other information on the internet that I could find for this old model other than some sketchy download sites. Without your video I’d have no clue how to remove the keys. Thank you again!
Glad it helped you. There are usually two contacts for each key and the time it takes between when each contact is activated determines key velocity, one of the contacts may have some debris that shorten the time causing the piano to think that it has been hit at full velocity. Often cleaning applying carbon to the contact with a very dark lead pencil can fix the keys for a while. I eventually gave away my piano as it needed repairing/cleaning more and more often. I'm not sure if the contacts are the same for the HP800, but on my old piano there was a plastic cage surrounding each group of key contacts, unscrew the cage for the group and prise the cage from the front upwards and backwards towards the rear of piano and kind of hinge it backwards if that makes sense. First time is harder as it is sticky. When re-screwing the cage, first spin the screws slowly counterclockwise and wait for a slight click as they drop into the thread, then clockwise screw to tighten, this helps prevents cross-threading which is what the screws really want to do if you don't use this method.
@@Fontgod thank you for being so responsive to comments on your video. I was successful in getting a few of the keys removed but with much difficulty. I suspect the tool I made is too stout, that is the wire I used is too thick. I broke the small lip on one of the keys that keeps the rocker/spring mechanism in place. After much worrying I realized it does not keep the key from popping up higher than the others so much relief there. I've super glued it back together and expect it to not be a problem. I will refashion a new tool that will hopefully allow me to remove all of the keys. This unit is absolutely filthy! If not, I will just focus on the 2 keys that are a problem. The HP 800 does not have "cages" as you mentioned but just the rubber cover that presses into the PC board. Cleaning/repair should not be a problem once the key(s) are off. Thanks again for responding. I will repost with the results.
@@Fontgod I made 2 more keys out of different material, as close to the specifications you provided. I was unable to make them work. Somewhere along this journey it became clear that locking down the piano key then pulling up disengages the plastic stud that locks the piano key to the frame thereby allowing one to slide the piano key out of its positioning slot. What I ended up doing was, starting at the end key, I slid a razor knife blade under the piano key base then pried the base up enough to disengage the stud and slide the key out. I successfully did this for the entire 88 keys. Nothing broke and I now have the unit opened for a much needed detailed cleaning. I found debris between the contact of the non-functioning key and with just the rubber cover in place it now is sounding. I will check each key as I replace them. Thanks again
@@nunyabuisness9658 Yes, that is an alternate method that is mentioned in the comments a few times but does require removal of all keys to the left of the one you want to fix (if you start from the left), my piano had a small slot on the side of each key that would have made this even easier as a small screwdriver would also work on the side. The tool can be a bit intolerant and possibly even needs different measurement for your model. Glad you got it sorted.
@@Fontgod thanks again for your initial post. After a painstaking cleaning, this 35 yr old HP 800 works and looks like new again! I watched the video again and can see the slot on your keys where a small screwdriver would fit to lift the stud out of the metal base. The HP 800 keys look identical to yours but without that slot.
I cannot thank you enough for this video. I have a Roland hp 1800 with the same keys. I was just about to give up on the homemade tool, and it worked! Was able to fix my FFF key with the matchstick trick too. Am happily playing again...
Very glad it helped you, keep in mind that the problem may recur over time. I used to keep the screws out of the casing so I could easily open it up every few months to fix keys that were failing. Have added the HP-1800 to my description based on your comment. :)
Can you explain the matchstick trick?
This guy really k owns what he is doing!
I tried it and it worked very fine and right!!!
Good to hear it worked for you. Thanks.
Great video, very helpful. This is what TH-cam is all about. Thanks for your time and effort. I had to remove over 30 keys to remove and repair a corroded PCB section underneath one of the keys. I would have probably broke one of these trying to get it off without this tool and knowing how they were fastened.
TIP 1: Some of my keys were stuck fast so I found that rocking the key side to side gently whilst lifting and pushing, helped release it from the metal seat easier without pushing to hard.
TIP 2: Don’t be tempted to put your finger under and inside the ‘white keys’ to help pull them out as you’ll crack or damage the key. They are quite brittle there.
Thankyou. Some good tips from you there.
Great tips !!! Thank you H Follis!
My friend - Thank You! I have a Roland RD-250s electric piano that had 3 bad notes. NONE of the other videos I found on TH-cam had the exact same type of keys, the ones as in your video, that require that little tool to release the keys. I followed your specifications, using a paper-clip and it worked great! Thank you so much! I was really stuck. Now the keys work great!
Happy to help out. :)
Thx! Removing keys as we speek! 3 down ... 85 to go ... but with motivationlevels at 200% thx to your tutorial!
10 Hours since you posted... hopefully you should be just about done ;)
Removal was succes! Managed to even out the action a bit more, but one of those gray rubber contacts has been ripped do to it's age I guess. Moved it to the verry end of the keybed and going to try and fix it with a bit of superglue. Long story short ... almost there 😉🎹🎶 Thx again, because afterall ... this video got me in to this adventure!
Dear Fontgod, you are a legend! I really want to send you a gift, a nice bottle of wine or whatever you like! I've just restored my Roland HP 230 based on your video. I had 6 keys not working properly, a couple were dead and a few were too loud (velocity issues). They now all work. I removed all the parts and the keys and then removed the membrane under the keys and cleaned all the contacts. I then coated each contact with a soft graphite pencil. I've been playing it for 2 weeks now, so far so good!
Hi there, that's a very nice offer and I'm humbled but not required, send a donation to Doctors without Borders or something if you feel it was of benefit (msf.org). You will probably find that over time the keys will start to play up again so I find its best to leave the majority of screws out of the casing to make the process a little easier the next time. Mine tends to play up more when the humidity is higher. Edit: by the way, checked out your monocycle, fairly sure I read about it a few years ago on Gizmodo or some other tech site, or something very similar.
I've donated to them, great cause, see below. Yes I fear it won't last so I won't put it back together completely. I don't want to throw it out though as I feel that it's such a massive waste and bad for the environment so I'm prepared to re-do it at some stage. Yes I developed that wheel with a colleague and we had to sell the business at a loss as we kept getting copied by the Chinese....our own factory stole our IP and launched a copy before us!! Unbelievable! Thank you again!
Tax receipt for your donation to Médecins Sans Frontières Australia
Donation Amount: $50.00
Name: XXXXXXXXX
Receipt Number: CC97193321
Date: 13:08 12 July, 2018 AEST
Médecins Sans Frontières Australia Ltd.
ABN: 74 068 758 654
Awesome, thankyou... although bugger about the wheel (if you hadnt guessed by my voice I'm also an Aussie, near Coffs Harbour NSW.) Yep, throwing something out of that size and with all the tech inside it is certainly something I would try to avoid, I'm more of a roadside junk recycler and repairer than someone who puts stuff out for rubbish pickup). This piano was one from my wife's school that was going to be thrown out as the repair quote was way too high. Tip, if you pull out just the key that needs to be repaired you can often give it a quick fix that lasts for a month or two just by inserting a long match into the two little holes at the top of the rubber contact and then press down and work the match around for a few rotations in circular fashion. This generally dislodges the crud under the contact for a while. Eventually it will require a full service where you remove and clean under the contact strip though. I usually leave just one tiny screw in the far left of the front shroud and one screw to hold the top down, just remember to remove the pedal cable before lifting the lid otherwise it risks breakage.
Would love to hear more about your experiences in creating the mono cycle if you wanted to contact me via private message, I've usually got a few business/product ideas running through my head at any one time amongst all the other noise and you never know when a synergy with another person will pop up. Cheers, Graham.
Yes, so people, be advised, this also works for the Roland RD 250s - which has the same style of keys, requiring this little tool device. Great video - many thanks!
Thanks so much for the tutorial, mate! Just fixed a Roland HP1700 that had a note with faulty velocity response, using your tips. Much appreciated!
Awesome, glad it helped. One less piano for landfill.
Other tip: If you are fixing "dead notes" as I was, after you remove enough keys to pull out the rubber cover which has to 2 black contact buttons, which hit the circuit board to make a note... you can use Q-tips and rubbing alcohol, to quickly clean the contact points. Then make sure - when putting the rubber strip(s) back in place, that all the little nubs are firmly in all the holes. For this, the flat end of a ruler (or similar) works great to press the rubber strip nubs back into the holes firmly. Tip 2: make sure you actually check each of the notes to make sure they were all cleaned properly and are working BEFORE you put the keyboard casing back together. I found that with one key, it had to be given a 2nd go-over with the cue-tip to get it working.
Good tips and I do something similar to clean mine, although they need attention every few months especially in humid weather.
And if you don't have rubbing alcohol I used whiskey. Lol.
One of the best things you did here was the capicator warning.
Thanks, always best to be cautious with large capacitors.
Tanks Man! I had to repair a 5000s and i had no idea how to remove the keys. You saved me.
Glad it helped.
Thank god I found your video and thanks very much for making it! I have a Roland HP1800 with dead keys and had the tool but no idea how to use it.
Glad it worked for you, did you buy the tool or make it yourself?
Super helpful and thanks so much. I have a KR 3000 with the same keys that has seen a rough life before I got it. I was looking at your paper clip design, and it reminded me of something. Those things that come with paint cans to open them (they look like beer bottle openers) work really well - got all 88 keys out with no problem using that. Thanks again
Interesting, did you need to bend it as per my instructions or was it pre-bent to a suitable state?
@@Fontgod Nope, it worked just as it was. Some of the newer ones that come with paint cans are a little wide for the hole, but I suppose you could grind off a little bit on each side. The "hook" is fine. Cheers, and thanks again!
@@sophiezanep Great tip, thanks for that. My Roland has since passed on to a new owner but I'm sure it will come in handy for others.
Add HP-5600 to list of compatible repairs. I started off with that repair fright you have when prying open something you've never seen the inside of before. Made the key remover tool exactly to your specs, worked great, first go. Was able to do a full service job locating and cleaning the contacts that way. The few problems the 1987 piano had, which I got this week for around 300 USD, all disappeared. Remarkably authentic feel & response. All I need now is piano lessons.
That was me commenting as Graham above. Thanks for letting me know about the HP-5600, will add it to the list.
Good info Fontgod , all keys in Roland RD250s now working, had to repair a cracked pcb trace, Happy Holidays and thanks from Toronto.
Cool! Such a small world eh? I'm in Hamilton - from Toronto originally - got the Roland RD 250 s As a Gift - from a great friend - - - - - had the "two dead keys" issue - - - - went on You Tube - - - - found this wonderful "Fontgod" Brittish accented wonderful guy, gladly sharing his wisdom and awesomely creative advice - - - and did what he said - - - and bent (it took me 2 versions to get it right - the first one was too thin of a paper-clip - gotta use a thicker one, like he told us) and BOOM - fixed - and done. This is an amazing keyboard - a Classic. To have Great Advice and Wonderful Tips like those from Fontgod - are So Much Appreciated. Thank you - Again - Fontgod!!!
Thanks very much. This helped with my RD300s!
Excellent video. You made the difference between me being stuck with a broken HP 1200 or being able to get the keys out. Not having a suitable paper clip, I managed with a picture hook bent to the shape needed. Big thank you!
Always nice to hear that pianos around the world are being brought back from the dead. Did you have many bad keys to fix? Will add HP-1200 to the list of compatible fixes.
Fontgod Hi. One broken one that I superglue back together once a year but knowing the trick to removing, I've made a better glue job of it and moved it to the top octave until a replacement becomes available. (Do they do piano swap meets?) More importantly, debris was interfering with the switches underneath giving me unexpected loud notes. I removed all keys and gave it a good clean and so far seem to have fixed it.
Is the HP-1200 a hammer action key or just weighted like the HP-230? I think my keyboard weighting is the same across all keys but some keyboards have varying weight as you go up the scale so swapping keys can cause slight differences in that regard. My HP-230 uses K20W style keys and perhaps your model is the same as the HP-1000S also uses the same keys. Have a chat to the guys at Syntaur who have some left in stock for most keys syntaur.com/roland_hp.html
The following forum may also be of use www.keyboardforums.com
Fontgod I compared the 2 white keys I was swapping and they seemed exactly the same. I compared black keys and they all seem to be the same. And when I played it, the feel was correct.
Yeah, oddly the keys are all numbered at the bottom/back of the key so I suspect this is due to incremented weighting on some keyboards but it makes no difference with mine. Is yours the same K20W style key or do you have a hammer action? Where did your key actually break? The K20W style keys seem quite robust compared to the hammer action which seems to have a weak spot.
Worked like a charm, thanks for the tip! I noticed that I only had to make the 7mm and the 3mm bend at the tip of the wire (I used a thick paperclip as you suggested), the other bends were not needed...
Good tip. The bends are as defined by Roland, so I'm guessing that the third bend helps to hold the tool in place (it's been a while since I have looked at it), although as you say it will also work without.
@@Fontgod Indeed, because I have to hold the tool in place with one hand while removing the key, you do it without doing that. Nevertheless, in the meanwhile I have been able to repair all my keys, and am playing my digital piano again. Thanks for the tip again!
I got my Roland HP 2700 opened up, too bad i don't have a extra 1.5 thick steel clip, maybe i will try to clean mine on the other day, but thanks for your video i can now repair my Piano, i miss it so much :'(
good video, worked on my roland A80 that is about 30 years old. After a few keys were off, I was able to just release the key from underneath (push up with a small screwdriver) and it was easier than mucking around with a wire.
I had a dead key, just vacuumed it up and cleaned it up and now it works again!
Zlat Todo What do you mean by "push up with a small screwdriver"? Did you just insert the screwdriver in the hole? I've been trying to make the tool for hours but it just wouldn't work. I'm so tired. Could you please help me?
If you are starting in the middle, you need to use a tool, if you are starting near the edge, you can insert a small screwdriver between the main chipboard and the plastic spring/key/retainer and gently lift it up, its a lot easier once you have one key outso you can hold it and make sense of it. Basically, when he depresses the key in the video and inserts the tool, it locks the plastic spring/key/retainer to the actual key, and when he lifts the key UP, it lifts the plastic piece up too, you can skip all this by lifting the plastic piece up from underneath but like I said, its only doable from the side, so start either at the end, or get the first one removed with a tool.
Very helpful! I have an HP 230 with 8 dead keys and I'm going to have a try at fixing it thanks to you!
+tomsfunband Glad it was helpful. I actually had to do a service again on my keyboard on the weekend, I had around 3 dead keys around middle C and ended up taking a large number of keys out so I could get to the rubber contacts underneith, then unscrew the black brackets that hold them in place and remove them. After removal I ended up washing them thoroughly in water with dishsoap, and used a very fine semi abrasive pot cleaning sponge (the ones you use on non stick pans) to gently remove the glazing on the carbon dots on the underside of the rubbers. Thinking about it now, I suspect a magic eraser sponge would also work well if used gently. Use a fine rubber eraser on the circuit area as well to gently clean it. To remove a contact rubber you need to take out enough keys to be able to unscrew an entire circuit board segment as the circuitboard segment needs to be lifted up slightly to be able to remove the clips on the black plastic that holds the rubber in place, they may also be slightly stuck down, so use gentle pressure to pull them upwards and towards the front of keyboard. There are about 4 circuit segments across the keyboard I think so depending on what keys are dead, you may need to remove most of the keys to get at the underside of the rubbers, or use the the matchstick method I mentioned below to Rodger for a quick fix, just to see if it fixes the issue temporarily. I also suggest leaving most of the case screws out after fixing, as you will likely need to do it again in time.
@@Fontgod Great and Very Clear Advice my good friend. Thank You so much - from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada! My voice speaks for probably 1000 others who have viewed and learned from your generous help. Thank you Fontgod - you truly Rock!
@@skyvision6736 Thanks, that means a lot. It has blown me away how many views this has had so far and I really appreciate all the great comments. Nice to know my advice is keeping a bunch of instruments out of landfill as well. :)
@@Fontgod Yes, it should be a pleasant rush that you have almost reached the 30,000 views mark on this veru excellent video of yours !!! Such great news and as of 1:am on May 19, 2020) count is: 29,446 views ) You're getting close to the 30 K celebration!
Despite this crazy new world-wide epidemic we are all having to deal with - I salute you for reminding us all that - - - Life Goes On - - - and we'll all be okay. Alright everyone? We'll all be okay.
Thanks for getting me started on this RD300S I'm working on . I found an alternate method for removal of the keys but, you need a mechanics-style right angle pick made of hard steel. It fits under the TAB area and you push it like shown in your video. Black keys come out in the opposite direction. Just take care when removing the white keys. The bottom hinge is spring loaded and it MIGHT want to pop open.
There's LOT of debris in the assembly which means I'll have to pull ALL the keys to clean up the keybed
Thanks. That sounds very similar to HP-230 method.
Fantastic, I copied your tool from a large paper clip and it works on my roland hp800. Thanks from UK.
Great to hear that. Technically it's not "my tool" as it's based on Roland's own recommendations for making the tool yourself.
Fontgod , good on roland for this but i learned it on your video, its very handy and it sticks on the magnetic speaker, the next time i need it.
Fontgod , good on roland for this but i learned it on your video, its very handy and it sticks on the magnetic speaker, the next time i need it.
@@ganimisa Good tip and thanks for the kudos. Roland sell a proper tool (or at least they used to) but they should be commended for giving details of how to make one in their service manuals.
Hey fontgood, great unfortunately I am stuck at opening the main case still. Do you mind posting a video that shows how to open the main cover?
This is also very helpful for the Roland A-80 MIDI keyboard which has the same key mechanism.
Glad it helped and thanks for the info. Will try to add it to the video keywords
Great video, that helps a LOT !
Hi Fontgod.. really appreciated your utube in respect to removing the keys of the Roland HP 230..The tutorial was great.. made the tool - or tried to.. great amount of frustration trying to make it work..Out of pure frustration after a number of hours, I used a screwdriver and twisted to raise up the "keeper".. just barely tapped it with a hammer & out it popped .. probably not as professional as your method.. but had them all off in about 15 mins :) Cleaned the contacts.. made no difference !!
+Rodger Anderson Interesting method, was this on HP230? Did you damage the keys much using the screwdriver method? So do you have some keys that are not sounding at all? I assume you removed the rubber contact strips underneath the keys and cleaned the circuit board contact areas gently with a soft eraser? Did you also try flipping the rubbers over and cleaning the little corresponding carbon circles gently? When you remove the rubbers and flip over you should see a bunch of carbon dots, if some look a bit glazed under a light then they may need a clean.
+Fontgod .. It actually worked REALLY well, and absolutely no damage to keys.. once I worked out the mechanism.. kinda figured that if the keys didn't work & our local "repair man" said he could do nothing with it, then I had nothing to lose :) We only gave it a "cursory" clean, but will make another attempt.. thanks so much for the info.. all very helpful
+Rodger Anderson I used a flathead as well once I got a few keys out with the paperclip tool. Worked great!
+Rodger Anderson Its sometimes possible to do a quick fix of the contacts by removing the faulty key, and then push a matchstick into each of the 2 holes in the contact rubber, push the matchstick in enough so that it pushes the contact to the circuit boards and jiggle it around in a circular motion for a few seconds. Don't push too hard or it may damage the rubber. The idea is to dislodge the dirt/glazing that happens over time. I have to do this every few months with a few faulty keys, particularly when its humid. I leave most of the screws out of the case so its easier to open (I only leave 2 screws holding the lid closed, and 1 small screws at either end of the metal fascia plate, that way I can have the case open and key removed within 5 minutes.
Worked perfectly on the KR-4500. Found it was possible to make a tool that was able to remove a key without lifting it up by changing the 16mm length to 19mm allowing it to lever up the locking mechanism.
Interesting, thanks for the feedback.
Finally someone who managed to repair the exakt same old model. On mine, every Second D and B Flat Key stopped working. Trying to figure out what happened right now, still stuck at trying to lever up the keys though :|
@@Nahkampfschaf That one is going to be a little tricky. My unit had just 2 keys with issues. 1 no sound, 1 muffled (deep clean and graphite pencil trick). If you have a pattern of keys not working it might be more than just a clean. Likely a poor contact between the key's PCB and the main board. Shortly after fixing mine, the main board decided to eat it.. soooo... big paperweight just made it to the too hard basket for a while.
David McCauley That what i'm afraid of. I'ts D1, D3, D5, D7 and B Flat 1, 3, 5 and 7. Every other key, even D2, D4 and so on are working perfectly. I got it cheap one week (!) ago. I had a bit muffled sound (cracking and chirping) when turned on, via speakers, headphones AND line out, so no speaker problems. It got way better after the first 10 minutes turned on and no problems at all when going through the midi out (via midi-usd cable to the pc). Didn't bother me at all, still way better then my old 50€ keyboard. Then all of the sudden after 7 days (this thing is almost 30 years old!) some keys went dead. I'm still mad. The Roland is open, but can't get the keys lifted up for now. Have to get some thick paperclip or something later today, to build something. Hopefully ist something i can fix with a pencil, or some silver glue. Haven't soldered in like 20 years and everything else is beyong my expertise :/
@@Nahkampfschaf Grab a piece of welding wire. Perfect weight for shaping for this
technique worked for my rd250s. Thanks for the video.
Great news, thanks for feedback.
Me too - the rd 250s - - - what an odd little tool needed to pull the keys - like what a crazy world eh? Where you have to actually bend a paper-clip - - to lift a key - - - to remove it - - - - and clean the area = = = = = and boom, you're playing great (hopefully great) music again!
@@skyvision6736 Very mediocre music in my case, but yeah. If cleaning under the contacts you need to remove a bunch of keys to get to each contact strip though, unless just doing the trick where you remove a single key and insert a matchstick or skewer into the little holes at the top of the contact strip and wiggle it around a bit for a temporary clean. :) I leave all my screws out of the piano case to make it easier.
@@Fontgod My first keyboard - as a 16 year old "Rocker" in the making - was a Roland SH-5 synthesizer ( is mono-phonic one note only at a time - - - so no chord playing ) and I took it apart many times to explore how it worked - discovering multiple layers of circuit boards - - - - all boiling down to the keyboard.
The keyboard of the Roland Sh-5 is springy and kind of cheap feeling - but quick response for plastic keys.
Wow, just got your reply - You are amazing my friend!
@@Fontgod Great idea! Fuck yes - Just leave them out! Why not? It's like, who's going to ever need them in again anyway right? And if so - well here they are - in a plastic bag, somewhere - here - I can find it somewhere.... ha ha ha lol love you bro!
hi there fontgod, amazing video, thanx so much! is there any particular order keys should be reassembled in hp 230? im afraid i got them rather mixed up
I no longer have my HP-230 but I do recall the keys are marked on the back end, however I don't think the key weights are different from low notes to high notes like on some other variably weighted key pianos so perhaps it does not matter too much about the order.
@@Fontgod si si, youre quite right, black keys are all exactly alike, despite different markings on them, white keys are seven types, they all have their markings: A B C... and so forth, thanks again!!! that cleaning did wonders!!!
Good instructions for the inexperienced handyman.
The "E" key, just to the right of the centre "C" did not work at all..
Had to make a slightly different removal tool, but it worked fine.
Tried to clean the contacts, and changed to a key from a different position but also a "E" key. Now the dead key works but needs a slightly heavier keystroke to make it work good. If I tap it lightly it makes a soft sound, softer than the other keys, or no sound at all, if very lightly. Any ideas why this is so?
When you say you cleaned the contacts, did you remove the rubber contact pads and clean underneith on both the circuitboard side and also the rubber side?
Yes, I cleaned the contacts, by lifting the rubber and cleaned both circuitboardside and rubber side with a q tip, and some fluid I had for cleaning electrical equipment. It was an old bottle I had from a film maker for cleaning the moving parts of a projector. Worked well.
When I was finished all keys worked very well, and the touch on all was
the same.
By any chance, do you know why my Roland Hp 2700 pedals when pressed are sending a Key note in Midi?
No sorry, but this thread talks about a similar issue on a different keyboard which might give some clues www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92804
My roland does a spontanous screeching noise while playing.. like the noise of someone dragging their finger nails on a chalk board.. do you know how to fix this noise?
Thanks
I think I have read about a similar problem but unaware of a fix for it. Does the screech always have the same pitch no matter what key? Here's some similar issues forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2392855/Urgent_help_needed:_Piano_make.html
www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/1s6pdq/my_electric_piano_makes_a_high_pitched_noise_on/
@@Fontgod yes no matter what key same screech all of the sudden
Very informative video! I have a very loud key on my Roland HP-2900G. Do you know if that model has the same key mechanism where your technique would work?
I did a bit of research and it seems that the HP-2900G does have a very similar key mechanism which I think is called SK-6L (not SK-6 as is the case with my piano). From my understanding the key removal tool is the same, however the sequence to removing the keys is slightly different in that to remove a black key you first need to remove the two white keys either side of the black. Replace in the opposite order.
The velocity/volume issue is likely related to a dirty or bridged contact below the key. I'm guessing that some conductive material may be stuck to the velocity contact causing it to be bridged and hence the key is playing at full volume even when pressed lightly. Ive had similar issues with mine that has been fixed at least temporarily with a contact clean with isopropyl alcohol. The contact rubbers need to be removed to clean below them on the circuit board itself. On my keyboard, I removed 3-4 screws from the plastic bracket holding each contact strip in place then it can be easiest to tilt the bracket up and backwards like a lid rather than trying to remove it completely as it can be a bit hard to remove otherwise.
IF your keyboard is similar to mine, the first time you do this the bracket may be hard to lift up as it may seem stuck to the circuit somehow, you may need to lift it at the front with a thin plastic pry tool to get it to unstick. You'll need to remove quite a few keys to get access to each contact strip as each one is around 20cm wide or therabouts (some are shorter or longer than others), just remove keys until you see the left or right edge of the bracket.
A tip when replacing the screws in the bracket, if they seem to crossthread and hard to screw back in, try turning each screw slowly anticlockwise for about half a turn until you feel them click slightly on the thread, then commence to screw back in clockwise. Good luck. :)
Here is a link to a document about your keyboard mechanism. f01.justanswer.com/proaudio2016/fdd4c524-1a07-4893-a74f-574c98ad61e1_7312018.pdf
Thank you for taking the time to research and for the very detailed response. I will definitely give this a try soon and let you know how it goes. Thanks again!!
@@josephwallace6058 No problem, hope it works out for you.
@@Fontgod Update: So I was able to successfully open up my Piano and remove a number of keys with the paper clip tool. Your video and tips really helped me get through this process, so thanks again for the information! After cleaning the contacts I discovered that the rubber contact pad (aligned to my troubled key) had a slight tear. And it looks like this is the issue because it doesn't land correctly when the piano key is pressed down and forces the loud sensor to be triggered. I'm now trying to find a replacement pad and hope that will fix my problem. If anyone knows any sites to check let me know. It's out of stock on Syntaur.com. Thanks again for all your help!
joseph wallace oh that could be a problem then. They always seem to be out of stock at syntaur, perhaps if you message them they may stick them occasionally when a broken donor keyboard becomes available. You could try glueing if the tear is not too bad, or perhaps swapping pads from an area of the keyboard that is less used, that may at least allow you to play the centre of the keyboard.
Hey man! Thanks for the video btw, i need to exchange my contact strips (HP-230 ZI 51851) but i'm having a hard time finding them. Any tips?
The only place I knew of that stocked them was syntaur.com but think they are now out of stock. How badly damaged are they? You can try cleaning the black carbon dots on the back of the strips with a magic eraser sponge from a supermarket and also try cleaning the circuit contacts themselves with a soft rubber eraser, then draw over the circuit contact with a dark lead pencil such as a 6B, the carbon in the lead pencil will help conduct signal again. Another solution is to try a conductive paint pen to repair the carbon dots on the back of the contact strips or even to redraw the circuit itself if it is badly damaged, try a thin layer at first though as it may perhaps affect velocity if its too thick, not sure really. I've also washed my strips before in detergent to remove the silicon grease that tends to leech out over the years. One thing I can say though is leave most of your screws out of your piano as fixes tend to be temporary and you may need to open it up every few months.
Isopropyl alcohol can also be used to clean the strips so I read.
yes (sorry for multi-year delay in reply) Always look for the "little nib" or tab, that you can pull upon. Often the manufacturers will make a "sleek design" that means the access points are very hard to find.
So look carefully and slowly and you'll find the openings. Sometimes a small opening in the side of an otherwise smooth line - try prying gently with a flat-head. Often it will "POP" out and you'll see the shell come apart.
With the old Roland keyboards - seek good You Tube videos about that EXACT unit - and watch - and learn. That's what I do often. I've learned SO much from all the wonderful people out there - who have shared their wealth of knowledge for us beginners.
On my 137R its not working 😥 looks different Parts or key instslled
Hi' I've tried this "many" times at this point. I messaged you awhile back. I am pretty good with tools, plans ect. I can't get it. Is the 1700 different by chance? I am thinking it must be. I have broken a couple of trying this. Thanks
I'm unsure if it is the same mechanism. However if you are unable to get the key tool to work, you may be able to try an alternate method using a screwdriver to pry up each key from the side access hole. The downside to this method is you potentially need to remove lots of keys to get to the key you want to repair. I have made an image for you to explain a little better. See www.fontgod.com/photos/rolandpianokeyremoval.jpg
MErci! you save my life!
That's always good to hear.
I want to first thank you so much! Your videos have helped get me to what I think is an issue I'm having with a sticking key. However on that note...I've discovered that something may be tweaked and looking to figure out how to correct it. Would someone be willing to take a look at a photo?
Fixed! Yay!
Glad it helped. What was the tweak you ended up doing? It might help someone else with the same issue.
Do thr keys on this piano model have a weighted action?
I no longer have the piano but yes the keys did have weights, however I don't think the weight grading changed from the low end to high, it seemed the same all the way through. There is no simulated hammer action.
@@Fontgod ah right, cheers. There's just one available near me for not too much, and I wasn't sure whether it'd be worth repairing instead of buying a new keyboard.
i also found that it worked quite well with a blade screw driver from the end/side gently lift the foot and slide.
The only problem with this method is I think you cannot remove individual keys, you need to remove all the keys until you get to the one you want to work on. Am I correct? I often have recurring problems with my keyboard but can usually just remove the problem key, then wiggle a matchstick around in the two little holes in the rubber contact and this is usually enough to get the key working for a few weeks/months as it temporarily dislodges whatever grime was stopping the contact working.
Fontgod unfortunately it seems that the issue is much worse looks like a damaged pcb. I'm not an electronic engineer or even a sparky just trying to get the 6 dead keys on this board i bought today going. looks like i may have bought a lemon.
depending on the damage and width of the PCB that has been damaged you may be able to repair the trace with a silver conductive pen to redraw the circuit. Or solder a jumper wire between the broken trace.
Great idea! Thanks!
I have a HP1700 and I have followed the directions for the tool and I can not get it to work. I have broken keys..! Can you tell me what I am doing wrong? The video is really helpful. I just need to get the tool thing figured out. Thank you.
The only thing I can think is that your paperclip steel is too flimsy and it's not strong enough to maintain shape. Try a thicker paperclip and double check measurements. Return to the video at 1:58 and make sure you are following correctly. Be sure to depress the key BEFORE inserting the key, then once inserted into the hole push the tool backwards towards the back of the piano. If the tool is working correctly you should be able to let go of the key and tool and the key should remain depressed by itself. Check to see if the tool works with an unbroken key as perhaps there is something about the broken keys themselves which are causing an issue with removal. If this still doesn't work, there is a method to remove all keys with a screwdriver starting from the left (or perhaps right side as well?) of the keyboard, but it means you have to remove all keys before reaching the one you intend to repair. To try this alternative method, depress the far left key, insert a thin flat screwdriver into the little slot in the plastic where it meets the steel (slot is below and slightly back from the main tool hole) and prise the plastic upwards slightly, then pull the white key towards the front of the piano (black keys slide backwards).
Thank you..! I will try again.
The spring fall out, how can i put it back?
Remove another key, then carefully open it up to see how the spring is seated, probably the easiest way without a complex explanation.
Hi Fontgod, Thank you for your video. I was able to to remove the keys thanks to your technique. My HP 1700 has two keys that don't respond anymore. Cleaning didn't help so I am trying to remove the rubber contact strips and see if I need to draw the circuit again. I removed the screw but I am not able to remove the piece of plastic that holds the rubbed contact strips. Any advice? Thanks!
Hi Mathilde, I actually did attempt another video to show how to do this last time I cleaned my contacts but phone ran out of memory part way through and I never completed the video. Anyway, I'm not sure if your HP 1700 will use the same technique as below but but what you may need to do is remove ALL the keys from the circuit board segment with the dead keys. Work left then right until you get to the edge of the board segment in question (I think there are either 3 or 4 segments for the entire keyboard so this may be around a 1/3 - 1/4 of the total keys , cant remember exactly, the boards are also not all the same length on my model). Once you have the entire board exposed for that segment, remove all the screws for ALL the plastic contact holders for that segment, not just the one you want to work on.
Once all those screws are removed, carefully tilt the circuitboard from the front of the board upwards by just a few mm. This will then allow you to grab the plastic contact strip holder by the front of the holder with your thumbs and prise it gently upwards as well, several lugs at the top/back of the plastic are holding it in place which is why you need to tilt the circuit board first. It may be lightly attached with an adhesive strip as well but that comes free quite easily. Try cleaning the board contacts with a soft rubber eraser and likewise the rubber contact side as well.
A soft dark lead pencil such as 6B can be used to temporarily repair the contact by gently rubbing it over the surface and laying down some graphite. You may also be able to use a conductive ink pen to reform a circuit if it is totally damaged.
Note that it seems easy to cross thread the screws when replacing, a good tip is to slowly screw them anticlockwise first until you feel a slight grab, then screw them inwards clockwise.
Thank you for your quick answer! It will take some time before I can removed all the key. I thought I could get away by just removing a bit more than four keys! Will let you know if I succeed. Thanks again
Did you try the quick fix technique of inserting a match stick or thin bamboo skewer into the two holes on the top of each rubber contact and swirling it around whilst pressing downwards for a few seconds? This is generally enough to clean the contact temporarily without having to remove the contact strip completely. On my piano this usually fixes the issues for a few week/months depending on humidity levels. If this doesn't fix the issue then the contact may be damaged underneath the rubber, not simply dirty.
If you build a sturdy tool from a very thick paperclip (one that is hard to bend) then removing a key only takes a few seconds once you understand the technique, however if the tool is too flimsy it can be very frustrating and time consuming (the first tool I built bent too easily).
I checked out your piano playing/juggling video by the way, clever stuff :)
Thank you! Just tried the quick fix technique, it didn't work. I finally was able to remove the rubber contact strips. I checked the circuit, doesn't look bad. I compared it to the rest of the keybords and I don't understand why it doesn't work. Where I thought it might need to be retraced I used a pencil but it didn't work. I guess I can't do much about it now. Thanks for your help!
If you are aware of the dangers of live power, remove the contact strip off the offending key, then switch the power on (obviously don't touch any live circuitry with your body or risk electrocution). Then using a small insulated flat screwdriver, bridge the gap across the circuit where the key isn't working. If you get some sound then the circuit is ok and its likely the little black carbon dot on the back of contact strip needs cleaning. Each key has 2 contacts, one is to show the key is pressed, the other is for velocity, I think the piano measures the time between when each is hit to determine velocity
do i need a different key removal tool for hp1500?
I am not sure but if the keys look the same as in the video then worth a try with making this tool. The alternative is using a small screwdriver starting at the very left of the keyboard (perhaps right side as well, unsure offhand) . See this image for basic instructions and check if it matches your keyboard. www.fontgod.com/photos/rolandpianokeyremoval.jpg
@@Fontgod Thanks for the reply! I ended up figuring out how to get them off safely by going in from the side with a screwdriver. Now my issue is that I don't really understand how to fix them. I believe in the video you said rub with pencil eraser and then just draw on it with a dark lead pencil. Do you mean a standard graphite pencil?
@@kv7411 Depending on the state of the key contact, you can sometimes do a temporary fix by simply removing the offending key, and then insert a matchstick into the two holes at the top of the rubber contact and wiggle each hole around for a few seconds whilst pressing downwards with gentle force. This can help to create electrical contact again underneath the rubber and dislodge any dirt that may have accumulated. You will likely need to redo this every few weeks to months though in my experience.
If this doesn't work, you will need to remove the rubber contact strip related to the keys that don't work, then clean the contact of the key that isn't working both on the circuit board and also on the little black circle on the rear of the rubber strip. You can do this with a soft pencil eraser, be sure to remove any bits of eraser dust that gets left behind. I have also washed my contact strips, scrubbed the little black dots (carbon dots) with a teflon scrubber and dried them out before putting them back. You can sometimes replenish the carbon on the circuit board with a very soft/dark lead pencil such as a 6B, just rub the pencil tip over the circuit contact areas under the rubber contact strip (only do it for the keys that aren't working). I have found that the easiest way to remove the contact strip is to remove the 4 or 5 screws in the plastic frame that holds each strip, then gently prise it upwards from the front and lift it open like a lid of a chest, without actually removing the plastic frame completely from the back of the circuit board, you can then pull out the rubber strip to work on it and fold the frame back down when finished. The screws on mine a notorious for cross threading when putting back together, to overcome this I gentle turn the screw anticlockwise until I feel a slight click, then start screwing them clockwise to tighten. Do not overtighten as you will crack the plastic frame.
If the pencil trick does not work, it is possible to buy a "conductive ink pen" or "conductive paint" on ebay and you should be able to redraw the contact area if this is the cause of your problems. It can sometimes be the case that the circuit has corroded somewhere else away from the contact area under the key which would be much harder to rectify. Hope this helps you.
please help ,one loud key , middle A , cleaned circuit ,contact under key , clavinova 550 ? tried everything
When you say you cleaned the contact, did you actually lift up the rubber contact pad and clean the circuit area itself as well as the underside of the rubber contact pad? There will likely be a small black or grey circle on the underside of the pad, clean this as well with a q-tip and a little isopropyl alcohol. I don't know for sure, but if it works similar to my keyboard then it sounds as if one of the contacts under that key is stuck in a closed circuit so that the velocity sensor thinks the key has been hit at maximum pressure. If there is no foreign matter visible and the contacts look ok then perhaps its some other issue with an electronic component.
thank you for replying , mine has two continuous small black wires that are put under pressure by the keys ,then they lay across the sensor board which is ( 3 circuit boards in line ) with the carbon strips on one side and only diodes on the other , I have tried pencil lead ( does it matter what kind of pencil lead ? , then alcohol , pencil eraser , the key rings out at full volume and some times you hear a second tone same note ,. hope that makes sense , thank you for your time , ray
Hi, did you fix your problem? I have same one loud key on a RD300GX.
yes , it was a small worn spot on the trace ( circuit board ) , the size of a pinhead hardly could see it , covered it with hot glue but anything to isolate it would work , hope that helps.
Can you message me a copy of the tool design image file? Much appreciated! Awesome video! So helpful!
If you pause the video at 5:40 you should be able to see the image, suggest capturing a screenshot if you need to print it.
Did I ever get back to you with the copy of the design for the tool that removes the keys on this Roland electric piano? If not -= let me know - I''ll find those images on past drives - and send to you. I actually still have the little wire tool I made - (which by the way - I also got from a good You tube video about this - in the first place!!)
or email me at my website www.WarrenProductions.ca and mention the topic to remind me. Cheers mate! Stay Well! Live Happy!
Works with HG 555 too!
Many Thanks.
I've been trying for hours to make the tool but I can't. It just won't work 😭
Is the wire too flimsy and keeps bending? Did you use the measurements at the end of the video? Did you make sure you depress the key first before inserting the tool?
Fontgod I only had regular paper clips and bobby pins. The paper clips were too flimsy while the bobby pins were too hard and just wouldn't bend it properly. Is there anything else I can use? It took me forever to figure out how to unscrew the piano so I'm just really disappointed that I couldn't get the keys off after trying for hours. I just don't know what to do anymore. :/
Try a jumbo paperclip, or a piece of sheet metal that you can cut with tin snips and bend with needle nose pliers. If the metal is too flimsy it wont work.
Yes Bhawn03 - -- like Fontgod said - - I had the same problem - you have to make sure you have a thick paper-clip, or if it is too thin and flimsy - it won't work. When you try to do this - you have to have dexterity and be able to do this - or even get a good friend to help you.
Sometimes I need to ask for help - to get someone to help me to get the problem fixed right. It's good to ask a friend to help you, to get your piano working - so you can play great music!
Sorry - that sounded stupid. What I meant to say is - sometimes I need to ask someone's help who has tiny fingers to wiggle this little piece of paper-clip (thick one) into the little Roland plastic key - hole - to find the "latch" and pull on it - in kind of a "pull-and-lift-at-same-time" kind of way.
...All the while - pulling or pushing ( I can't recall which) at the same time - then find that hook - then pull it - and BOOM - suddenly - a moment of " Ah-Haa! " and the key comes free.
That was such a rush - to finally get the little key-device to work - - - proving that this fellow on You Tube was actually telling the truth - was the first realization - - - - then WOW it WORKS! And pulling that key out - then cleaning the area - -- - what a McGyver! Thank you so much. Hope this helps you all! Cheers!
Will this work on Roland RP-500?
Unlikely as the RP-500 is a much more recent piano I think, my guess is they would have changed the mechanism since my HP-230 was released.
Fontgod I see. Well my problem is a couple of keys are a bit louder and I have no idea how to fix them. Any suggestions?
When your digital piano has issues, you know you’re screwed.
Not always... plenty of issues can be fixed. :)
Fontgod Thank you for this video ... it helps me for my Roland HP-800 too.
Could you give me the roundabout dimensions of the tool?
Perhaps you can add in the title "HP-800" so more than me can find this video ;)
Santa Dragon If you look at the last few seconds of the video you should be able to see an image of how to make the tool with dimensions in millimetres, just pause the video there. By the way, it is sometimes possible just to remove single keys and do a temporary fix for issues with contacts. Remove the key that is not responding, push a blunt thin stick like a long matchstick or bamboo skewer into the hole in the rubber contact and gentle wiggle it around a little, this can help to free up any dirt under the rubber contact that is causing the issue. Each contact has two holes, do it for the upper and lower hole.
Fontgod Hi there ... thank you for the note. I have just the problem that the key doesn't come up again. I just want to remove the key to change the spring element.
Santa Dragon Hopefully the spring has just fallen out of its slot somehow. Hasnt happened to mine though. Looking on google it seems that the HP-800 has hammer action keys, so my feeling is its quite a different key mechanism to mine (which doesnt) and this video may not really apply to your keyboard.
Fontgod But it does ... I saw my keys and yours. The lock mechanism is the same.
The difference is just the cheap lead weight under the key.
I allready demounted some keys and it work the same was as you shown!
So you can add the HP-800 to the title.
Is it possible to buy the key removal tool?
Roland did previously produce one, known as a "SK-6 Key removal lever". Unsure if they are still available through Roland, I suggest contacting them directly. However it is quite easy to make one yourself using the instructions at the end of the video above if you can find a thick enough paperclip, it should do the job.
@@Fontgod Okay, thanks!
Is there anywhere to buy the actual tool?
+Michael S You could try contacting a Roland service center and requesting an "sk-6 key removal lever". However the correctly bent wire method should work provided the wire is of sufficient thickness. If its too thin it will bend out of shape too easily. I assume you saw the diagram of how to bend the wire at the end of the video?
+Graham Jupp all the paperclips I could get my hands on weren't strong enough apparently. I was able to get a few keys off and then I managed to get the rest off with a flathead. I fixed my issue, which made me happy since I had no idea what I was doing. I might not have been able to do it, or most likely would have broken something without this video though, so THANK YOU!
+Michael S Glad its helping to send less pianos to landfill. When you and Rodger Anderson say you are using a flathead screwdriver, are you still going in through the access slot at the top of the key or attacking it from the side after you got a few keys out with the paperclip method?
+Graham Jupp, from the side. I was popping them off very fast with this method, and didn't damage/scratch anything. The reason I couldn't get them off with the clip method was there looked to be an adhesive strip running along underneath all the keys. A simple paperclip was not strong enough. I suspect that since I removed those keys once, it will be a lot easier the second time with a clip.
I might look into calling a few service centers and trying to buy the proper tool.
+Michael S Interesting, there was no adhesive strip on mine, perhaps a change in manufacturing. With the paper clip method you first need to depress the key, then insert the paperclip and push it backwards, then raise the key and pull the whole key forward (for the white keys that is, the black keys are moved backwards). Using the paperclip tool enables you to just remove the keys needed to be repaired, an advantage over the screwdriver from the side method I think.
why those sippings? bats..
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Ha, you appear to have very well documented all those clicks. Here's some theories, make your own choice about which is correct:
1) I'm descended from Zulu tribesmen and can't escape my click language heritage.
2) My mouth is home to a small bumblebee bat who regularly clicks whilst I'm speaking so he can get a feel for his environment through echolocation.
3) I'm Australian and watched a bit too much of the TV show "Skippy" when I was growing up.
4) I have a slight speech impediment which I had almost forgotten about, but now I seem to remember making a speech way back in school days and some guy up the back of the audience making clicking noises as I spoke... was that you?
@@Fontgod Dont take it serious.
The content of your video outstands those trivial observations.
@@cabeloDoPardal2 I don't Carlos, you did seem to spend a bit of time making a point of it though. Hope you had a laugh from my response.
@@Fontgod yeah.