Awesome job Jay! Love this video. You’ll never believe but my daughter scored an albatross in her US Kids tour championship last Sunday. A deuce on a 350 yard par 5 (age appropriate yardage). She’s 11! 495th amateur to sink a double eagle in tourney play. We (the dad caddies) appreciate all these videos my man!
I like that you give enough explanation so that the lesson sticks in the brain, without going too on long or just giving the basic answers. Your instruction videos really are exactly that, instructional. Thank you again Jay
@@JayRobertsGolf the thing is the explanation stays with you. It's all good to read this stuff in the guide, but your explanations are bang on the money for sticking in the brain
Great video, well explained. Because you explain things carefully throughout, it does take 5 minutes to make the next shot, so in future, it would be lovely to finish with a 'real time' series of steps to show that it can be done in about 45 seconds!
Thank you! I have been asking the USGA to have videos on every rule for years and its happening! You do an amazing job! It is so much easier to "show" relief and the relief area with your easy to understand videos!! Amazing!
Perfect video. Just had this exact situation booth one of my high school golfer. I was not sure about the drop from the cart path so he dropped a ball back to the nearest relief instead of this option. I’m going to show him this video at practice. Thanks!
I was in a similar situation, except the ball came to rest just off the cart path, but not in the hazard. The distance from the red line to the cart path was about 8”, and the cart path was impeding my swing.(because it was elevated about 2” higher than the dirt) To my understanding, I cannot, or DO NOT have to drop into a hazard. So, I argued that I could drop on the opposite side of the cart path, giving me a free swing but not improving my line of sight to the pin. My playing partner argued that I had to play it as it lies. Was I correct in moving the ball , without penalty, to the nearest point of relief opposite side of cart path?
I am studying to be certified as a USGA rules official. I am early in my journey and am somewhat fortunate I did not master the pre-2019 rules that would require me delete the old from my memory and then put to memory the new rules, terms, decisions, err I mean Interpretations etc. .:). Love this channel. Jay does an amazing job of making creative, detailed, yet concise videos that demonstrate the RoG. I have intentionally avoided content from all creators prior to the new 2019 R&A and USGA RoG else risk learning some key rules that no longer apply.
Welcome Rikkousa! Thanks so much for the comment! Do you have Facebook? There are a few groups worth joining that will keep your skills sharp with many questions/scenarios posted. It’s helped me a lot. I wish you all the best and if there is anything I can do to help just let me know. Look forward to seeing you in the comments!
Wow, this is the most understandable definition and instruction of one of the most complicated scenarios/rules of golf. 5 out of 5 stars, Jay. Thank you
Good video. I encounter players who, after the first drop, decide the nearest relief based on which side of the cart path is nearer the ball. I’ve failed to impress on them that the relief includes the stance (your feet have to be off the path when you take your simulated address position and put the tee down at the club head). If in your video you were left handed, you might have to drop in that narrow strip of rough between the edge of the hazard and the cart path, depending on that measurement including the stance. Big difference, possibly resulting in the lefty being unable to stand or swing! What would the lefty’s options be then?
I will be addressing that common 'myth' (relief side is closest to where the ball is) in a future video! You are exactly right in your assessment of a left handed player in this scenario. If there is enough room to the right side of the path (penalty area side) for the ball to be on a spot that doesn't give the player swing interference with the path and is not in the penalty area, they could very well need to play on that side. I've actually encountered that exact scenario 2 times in the last 4 rounds I've played.
@@JayRobertsGolf This is why it's important to have the penalty area line as close to the obstruction (cart path) as possible, so that you don't trap a player of one hand or another by having them take free relief in a less than ideal spot, and give the other handed player an advantage for their relief.
@@JayRobertsGolf Great video, thanks! Let me take the question one step further: in your example, the area between the path and the penalty area is narrow. If the nearest point of the relief for the ball were there, would a lefty be required to step into the penalty area to get full relief from the path (ball and stance)?
Not true. You must take complete relief. In this case a left handed golfer would have been standing in The penalty area for the next shot. That is nt complete relief. Additionally they could still take relief based on needing to play a right handed shot - which would have them on the cart part. After taking the drop away from the path, you can choose to play the shot left handed. Learn the rules people.
Hi Jay - on Fraser's call this morning, he suggested I view your videos. Nice job!! Only 1 comment. Like you, I like proper terminology as I think it really helps people who are newer to the Rules. Please use Nearest Point of Complete Relief instead of Nearest Point of Relief. Like "hazard," NPR is an old term replaced by NPCR. Best wishes on a great concept. Jerry Glover
I enjoy these explanations of the rules with a visual, and I understand why we are supposed to do it in a competition that being said dropping twice placing and moving it beside the cart path takes time when you could have very easily come to about the same spot without the drops. The popular buzz is slow play and going through all that is slowing up play, I play in a league and most of us try to play fast but when we’re on a slope above water we place it instead of dropping twice and having to stop the ball from rolling into the water. And I said water not penalty area, for as long as golf has been people said hazard, trap and other now politically incorrect golf terms, I don’t give a rats rear end what the USGA and R&A say I still use the terms we’ve used since Bobby Jones was a pup
Jay great explanation, but what if due hole design all drop options near the relief point are closer to the hole... Drop no closer to the hole on the other side of green? Go to the point from previous shot? We discussed at length and are still undecided.
I might be misunderstanding the question but it sounds like you are blending together two potential scenarios. If you are referring to an example like this video where you are taking lateral relief from a penalty area and you're unable to take two club-lengths because it would put you closer to the hole, then that option is unavailable. You would likely have to replay under stroke and distance, which you can always do. Am I understanding correctly?
Excellent video! Follow up question regarding using tees to mark your drop area. If you choose to mark with tees, are you required to retrieve them before you take a swing, or may you retrieve them after your swing (or even abandon them when, for instance, they are in a muddy/very rough area)?
Thank you so much for your channel, I have really enjoyed your rule explanations. I was wondering if you knew of any group discussions on the rules of golf that I might be able to join? I am going to taking the USGA Rules exam in the near future and thought it might be helpful. Thank you
Hey Tony! So glad you find the channel helpful and excited for you about taking the exam! I'm part of several rules discussion groups on Facebook that have been very helpful in my rules journey thus far. You should check out "Golf Rules", "Golf Rules Officials", and the "USGA Rules of Golf Discussion". Questions/scenarios are posted constantly. You will inevitably find a lot of people who just guess or offer their opinion but you should be able weed those folks out pretty quick. Some of the best rules minded folks on the planet are part of these groups and participate. Best of luck and there's anything I can help with, just let me know!
Great video. As a follow-up what would the situation be the same if the area, just of the cart path in the bushes, was not a penalty area but I decided to declare the ball unplayable.
If you are playing in a tournament yes do exactly like he says and follow the steps, but if you are playing a casual round with your friends I would just keep up the pace of play and skip the step to keep things moving. No need for anyone to be a rules Nazi if playing a fun round.
Great video jay … question… once u dropped the ball on the cart path it rolled, I would say one club length away from the original drop point …. I thought u got 2 club lengths of roll after the ball is in play after u drop the ball … I thought the ball was is play if it only rolled that far… as long as it doesn’t roll closer .. please explain thanks !
Thanks for the comment! The dropping procedure you reference was part of the old dropping relief procedures. When taking relief under a rule currently, there is a pre-determined area (measured by either one or two club-lengths) where the ball must be dropped. That creates the relief area and is where the ball must be played next. If the ball rolls outside of this area (even if it only rolled a few inches from where it was dropped), it must be re-dropped. The ball must land in and come to rest in the relief area. Hope that helps! Follow up questions welcomed. Thanks again!
Hi Jay. Love your videos. We had a rules issue the other day and couldn't figure out who was right. Someone's ball landed on a cement footing that a boundary fence was cemented into. The footing extended about 4" inside and outside of bounds. The ball was inside of boundary. They had a shot without the fence interfering at all. But taking a stroke on it would probably damage a club. We couldn't determine if the cement footing counted as part of the fence or not. We gave a free drop but we're wondering if it was just unplayable.
Hey Matt, thanks for the comment and support. That's a tricky one without seeing it. Under Boundary Objects/1, "Objects that are attached to a Boundary Object but are not part of that Boundary Object are obstructions and a player may be allowed free relief". The key question here is, is the cement footing "part of" the boundary fence? The Rules cite 'angled supports' as an example of an obstruction that would not be part of the boundary fence for which free relief would be allowed (although the Committee can certainly dictate otherwise). I'm afraid I can't give a direct answer to this one but it would be a great question to ask your Committee about how they wish to treat that cement footing.
@@JayRobertsGolf Thank you so much for your answer. I appreciate that its free time when you do that. I believe the rule you listed covers its. Said a different way it was "The ground under the boundary fence was cement". But it definitely was not part of the fence. Thanks again for your answer and your videos.
@@mattperzel7847 In that case, it sounds like relief is entitled and you did the right thing! Glad I could help. Thanks again for the comment and for the support!!
i'm really enjoying your video series on the rules of golf and i like to play by the rules and not be a rule breaker. i have a question about the rakes for sand bunkers, i had learned that the rakes were part of the bunker and should be kept when not being used in the bunker. what is your opinion on this and does it come under any rule? thnx.
Thanks so much for the comment! Whether to leave a rake in the bunker or out of it is completely course preference and not in the rules. There are pros and cons for each method. Personally, I like leaving them in because leaving them out can lead to rakes deflecting the ball from going in the bunker 🤷🏼♂️
@@JayRobertsGolf ok, i usually find them outside the bunkers when i play but i leave them in when i use them and i'm not sure what the policy is for the different courses i play but i'm gonna start asking at the clubhouse. i like your channel and thnx again.
@@steveperry1344 You can never go wrong with asking the clubhouse. I default to leaving them where I found them (if in leave in, out leave out). If a course truly wanted them in a specific place, they'll be sure to let you know 😉 thanks again!
@@JayRobertsGolf I completely agree. I've never understood why this reasoning doesn't trump any reason for leaving them outside the bunker. I really think leaving them in should be the standard, maybe even put in the rules for competition play.
Great video, thanks. One question/ observation.....looking at your marking nearest point of relief just off cart-path, given likely direction of swing it looks to me that path "COULD" still be interfering with line swing. I'd be taking a few more inches!
Great Video I am gonna share with our league. but one Q, what about the right hand left hand person issue and measuring from both sides of the card path To find the nearest point of complete relief. Also I recently had a situation where the ball was sitting on the roots of a gigantic tree was on the right next to the side of the cart path. there was no penalty area. do you automatically go to the left side for relief.
Hi Jay. Sorry to trouble you with this one, but at 4:24 in your video you mention that the relief area could be estimated with, say, an 8 iron. In the rules definitions a Club-Length is described as the longest club in the bag, other than the putter. Whilst it makes absolute sense to speed up play be using the club in hand & not pulling the driver, where in the rules or their interpretations does it mention using a shorter club than a driver? I ask this as I'm studying to take my level two exam & it would be great to be able to pick up on 'nuances' such as this one.
Hey David, that's a good question. Yes about the definition of Club-Length. So, if you're longest club (other than a putter) was 43-inches, you have 43- inches to play with. That's it. The Rules don't come out and say "you can measure with any club". But, they also don't say that physically measuring is a requirement. You don't even have to measure at all! So if you're not required to measure in the first place, how could you get penalized for using something to measure? The player is only responsible for dropping the ball in and playing from the relief area that would have been measured if the player had physically gotten their one club-length out and measured. Kind of like dropping from knee height. You don't have to be standing when you drop it, just drop it from the height of where your knee would be if you were in standing position. If I were to point you to a Rule though, I'd say to look at NPCR/2. If you don't have to physically find or mark the NPCR, you can't penalize the player for not measuring, or measuring incorrectly. Hope this was helpful. Please let me know with any follow ups and good luck on the exam! When do you take it?
@@davidverity9576 That's so awesome! Thanks for sharing and congrats to you!! You will enjoy applying this knowledge in the field. But fair warning it's a different kind of world. For your first time you will feel like you know nothing! lol, at least it did for me haha
What's always lost to me is, can you play from the cart path? Not that I would consider playing off of a paved cart path, but some of the courses I play have a grassy median between the two road wheel lanes made by the the cart traffic. Am I required to take complete relief from the cart path?
Watching this, it struck me as a possibility that you could drop the ball in your (grass) relief area in the far corner (4:40 in the vid), closer to the cart path, and with the curve of the path, end up with your right foot placed back on the cart path. Is that just a redrop?
If after dropping the ball, you still had interference from the cartpath, that would mean that the ball came to rest outside of the relief area (a correct relief area would mean that no matter where the ball is in the relief area, you would not have interference with the cart path). So yes, you would be required to redrop in the relief area
Well explained. However, if you had been left handed your nearest point of relief from the cart path would have been on the other side. What is the rule in that instance?
As long as you have just a sliver of relief area where the ball could lie that is 1) not in the Penalty Area, and 2) doesn't have interference with the cart path, you must drop on that side. It may not be a great next shot but you would have successfully gotten complete relief from the cart path.
Thanks Jay. Supplementary question - what if the penalty area was further away from the path, so when you took your drop the nearest point of relief was on the side closest to the penalty area. Obvs you have to take full relief so your nearest point of relief is now back in the penalty area. Does that then mean you can drop on the other side? Also - what if you are taking a drop from an unplayable lie in a bush? Would the same apply or would you have to drop in your he bush again?
NPCR has to be in the general area, so you'd drop on the other side of the path away from the PA. As for the unplayable, you'd want to play it from the path after the drop, since if the NPCR is in the bush, that's where you'd have to drop it.
You may want to add that when taking relief, although you did this, to always leave the ball where it is until the point of relief to drop has been identified. You may decide it's better to play it where it lies, but if you have already picked the ball up, there will be a penalty to put it back where it was.
Skybrook #17. 😂.. another great example Jay! Question - Staying with this spot, suppose the ball did not go in the bushes but rests just 1 ft on the grass. It is playable but the stance would be on the cart path. In this case is cart path relief allowed and player drops on the left side?
Yes, you are not required to stand on the cart path and are entitled to relief to the nearest point of complete relief in the general area (which excludes penalty areas). So you would move to the left side of the cart path as there is no point of complete relief closer on the right side.
I had the same situation but I could clearly hit the ball. I was hitting from on the path. My question is, do I get free relief from penalty area as I am on foot path
What if you were LH player and the nearest relief from the path was between the path and the penalty area? Seems likely that you’d have to drop right of the path?
Handy if I ever play an officiated tournament, but playing with friends I'm just going to skip to the part where I drop in that general area. Since we generally don't know the *exact* spot our ball went in (most of us are lucky to estimate within 10-20 yards) it's really all estimated anyway, so a couple of feet forward or backward isn't particularly relevant.
There are many times when the exact point of entry can’t be determined so the rules allow the player to estimate using their best reasonable judgement 👍🏼
if the ball rolled and settled in the drop area, but closer to the penalty area.. is nearest point of relief still on the side you ended up dropping to?(since there is no room for a stance without the ball being in the penalty area)
My additional question to that is what if your penalty drop on the cart path is in different spots? Meaning if it’s cart path relief after the drop, the ball marked on the cart path being more on what side? This would make a difference in what side of the cart path you will get the free relief. Your scenario had it go to the fairway side as the ball was closer to that side. If the ball was closer to the other side, you would be staying on the other side right? That would make the red stake not as close to the path from the start of the first relief If that makes sense
My question is... as it actually happened with us.. and we had an arguement over it... In your example, the cart path is on your right.. and then the red penalty line... and just for perspective, lets say the green is towards the north.. How would the rules apply if the green was in the south... and now the cart path and the penalty area was on ur left... there is about a one club length grass area between the cart path and the red stakes..(as per actual scenario).. Thanks..
Yes, if the NPCR was on the left side of the path, the NPCR would be further away from the path for a lefty than a righty to account for the stance interference
I know an easier way to think about when you use 1 or 2 club-lengths but for penalties, I think it comes down to just memory and realizing the difference between a procedural penalty and something that could give the player a significant advantage over another player. But let me look into it. Could be a good video
So referencing this example: what if your ball is resting an inch from a thick cart path(imagine same scenario just with a 4” slab of concrete instead of smooth like this one). You technically can get a club on it but can’t advance it type situation. Would I be able to take an unplayable onto the path? since I can’t drop in the penalty area I assume
Assuming you're talking about the ball being in the general area (meaning, not in the penalty area), if the path interferes with your stance or intended swing path, it's free relief. It's not an "unplayable", which implies a penalty, but free cart path relief as he demonstrated here.
Is back-of-the line relief allowed when taking relief from a cart path? Say there was a tree or something directly in the way where you are taking relief from the path - can you walk it back 50 yards within the rules?
Unfortunately, no. Relief from Abnormal Course Conditions (Ground Under Repair, Animal Holes, Immovable Obstructions, and Temporary Water) involve finding the nearest point of complete relief with a one club-length relief area
@@richardmclean25 Thank you, I didn't know that. Seems a bit out of left field and probably something I would never use, but there you go - I have learnt something.
Jay A really weird event happened on course today. So I hit my 3 wood off the tee and it finished in the second cut between the fairway of my hole and the adjacent hole. After identifying my ball correctly and noting that no one was coming up the adjacent fairway I preceded to make my shot into the green. Note my back was to the players who were coming up the adjacent fairway. As I commenced my downswing, the group on the other fairway called “fore”. I continued with my downswing as it was already in motion. At the precise moment that I almost made contact with my ball, the ball from the player who called “fore” ran between my legs , knock my ball away and resulted in me striking the other persons ball Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. None of us in my group were sure of the consequences re penalty etc. what we did was replace my ball ( moved by an outside agent) and continued. The other persons ball was recovered and placed where I had hit it from. A one in a zillion chance. But would like to hear your rule interpretation. Cheers Flummoxed
WOW. Talk about a 1 in a Zillion! There is a few things to unpack here: --Rule(s) that apply to you-- 1) Unfortunately (and this is such a harsh break), you have made a "stroke" by definition (the forward movement of the club made to strike the ball) despite the fact that it was moved by an Outside Influence during the swing and was the reason why you missed the ball. So that swing counts a shot. 🥺 2) Under 9.1, when a ball moves during the backswing OR stroke and the player goes on to make the stroke (you finished the swing with intent to hit the ball), the ball must not be replaced and instead must be played as it lies no matter what caused it to move. 3) Since you replaced the ball back on it's original spot instead of playing it as it lies, you would incur the General Penalty for playing from a Wrong Place 🥺🥺 --Rule(s) that apply to the other player-- 1) Assuming that you hit their ball while it was still in motion (not at rest) their ball would be considered to have accidentally hit an Outside Influence which means they would play the ball is it lies no matter where you ended up hitting their ball. Rule 11.1. 2) However, if you hit their ball while it was at rest, their ball would have been Moved by an Outside Influence and they would replace their ball back on it's original spot per 9.6 3) Still assuming you have hit their ball while still in motion (which is what it sounds like), they should have played their ball where it came to rest. Because they replaced it on the spot where you hit it, they too would incur the General Penalty for playing from a Wrong Place. 🥺 What a series of events!! I hope that is helpful??
The ball was only a foot or so from the left side but I would agree that a sentence clarifying why it wasn’t on the right could have been helpful. I’ll wrap that up in a future video about NPCR. Appreciate the comment 👍🏼
Cart paths can be any of the above and even sand. If it's something other than sand, best to check with how the course/committee chooses to treat it (immovable obstruction or not)
Thought cart paths had to have material brought in to form the path. Ie. if the grass wears down to dirt you get no relief unless its marked as ground under repair. Must be careful suggesting sand is okay to take relief from.
@@denisjl100 A third relief? The 2nd drop should be nearest point of *complete* relief. If a lefty doesn't have a stance, then the 2nd drop is not valid, and you drop again (then place, if necessary). The NPCR for the 2nd drop would just be farther from the cart path for a lefty. The only question would be if the red penalty area was marked such that a lefty could drop on the other side of the cart path.
@@GP-qz6kk what i read in the rules was nearest relief. and that is the grass on the other side of the cart path and that has to be within one club length. what you're suggesting is more than one club lengths. do we extend the relief area for lefties? how do you determine that the drop is farther for a leftie? there is nothing in the rule that tells me that it is different.
@@denisjl100 nearest point of complete relief is the point where the cart path is not interfering with any part of your swing, including your stance. So, your relief point is dependent on left/right- handed, and a lefty would get relief farther off the path to make room for their stance. This pertains to this example, and assumes there isn't room on the other side because the lateral penalty is right next to the cart path. If there is room on the other side for a lefty, then the 2nd drop would probably be there, but I don't see any reason for a 3rd drop/relief. One club length is after you determine the nearest point of complete relief. The NPCR is just that, the nearest point (that allows complete relief to make a swing), no more or less, so really has no other distance limit. Then, one club length from there. There's probably another video on this channel that will help explain it better. Or, I'm pretty sure the USGA rules app has a decent video on it, and shows how it differs depending on left/right-handed.
It was a good video for sure, but I don’t think that would work if you were left-handed or the ball would have bounced differently as the nearest point would’ve been on the other side of the path maybe. Obviously you would’ve done the same thing, but the hazard would’ve been in play so that would’ve been a different rule,maybe you should do one on that also thanks.
I agree, can you cover what would happen if the nearest point of relief would have been to the right, ie. back into the hazard? This actually happened in an LPGA Tournament about 2 years ago. They went round and round finally dropping on the side of the cart path away from the hazard although it clearly it was not the nearest point of relief. Announcers never explained what was happening clearly.
You neglected to mention how many penalty strokes that shot into the final penalty I?? Is it one only fo all of the placing and replacing or is a 1 stroke extra penalty each time it’s move??
It can't be. You get the nearest point of complete relief in the general area (this excludes penalty areas). So in this case, there is no point of relief available on the right hand side of the path.
You can't estimate with your 8 iron, because if the ball drops outside your marked area you don't know if it is still inside the relief area of the driver
Rec golfers: you know the ball had to cross the cart path and you know you get relief from cart path. So just do a drop on the grass within a club length from cart path and hit away. (20 sec!)
What happens if the nearest point of relief is back in the hazard. This happens quite often when you're pin-high with the green, and the cart path is between the hazard and the green.
No longer called a hazard. It is a penalty area and you cannot drop in any condition that you are taking relief from. You must take complete relief. The NEAREST point of relief may not be very close to where the ball is or originally crossed into a penalty area so you would keep moving in the closest direction no closer to the hole to where you have complete relief. Even if it is 15 yards to one side or the other. You see it all the time in PGA Tour events when they hit the ball over the green and up next to or into the grandstands.
It depends. If it came to rest within the relief area, you have completed taking relief and the ball is in play. You could play it as it lies or take further relief from the cart path. The Penalty Are line is too close to the path for a right-handed player to take relief to the right side so the NPCR would still be on the left side of the path and from that point you have a one club-length relief area to drop for free. If it rolled towards the PA but came to rest outside of the relief area you must drop again.
How many penalty strokes do you get in this situation? Just 1? Or is it 2 because you count the drop on the cart path + the next drop onto the grass? 🤔
A total of 1 penalty stroke in this situation. The penalty stroke comes from taking relief from the penalty area. Once the ball is in play on the cart path, you then take free relief.
One issue I have is that you pressed the grass down with your feet in the drop area to the left of the cart path before dropping your ball. I would be more comfortable having you not do that if I was playing against you in a tournament. I see people doing this in the bunker too when taking unplayable lie. They will step all over the drop area compressing the sand with their feet and drop on the foot prints. Best to leave any drop area in virgin condition as it was when you started the relief process. I noticed dew on the grass in the drop relief area where you dropped your ball. Having stepped in the drop area with your shoes, that would have eliminated the dew interferring with your lie. That is not allowed. Dew is not a removable impediment. It is the cumulative effect of both compressing the thick grass and removing the dew that might get you into trouble with opponents.
Whenever there's a Second Drop being made, it's a Good Idea to first focus on and identify where the Ball strikes the Ground and then see if the Ball has stayed in the Relief Area.
Is it a penalty for not marking the relief area if the other players clearly see the player dropped in a correct spot even though they didn’t use tees to mark the area?
@@birdiebirk This is a question that you won't find directly answered in the Rules. But, the best place to look would be under the definition of Nearest Point of Complete Releif and it's second Clarificaiton (NPCR/2) where it states that you do not need to physically siumluate or follow the recommended procedure so long as you get the ball in the right place. As with other scenarios on the golf course, like determining where the ball last crossed the penalty area, the player is only required to do what is reasonably expected under the circumstances to make an accurate determination (i.e. use their best reasonable judgement) (R1.3b(2)).
It can be but the ball must be in the bunker. If there is interference by an Abnormal Course Condition when you’re in the bunker, you must find the NPCR in the bunker. In this case, my ball on the cart path is in the general area. So when taking relief for an abnormal course condition, the NPCR and the relief area must all stay within the general area!
@@vargasbasti A cart path is an Immovable Obstruction which is one of the four Abnormal Course Conditions under rule 16. Whenever you are taking relief under a rule (either penalty relief or free relief), you are allowed to substitute the ball. The rule is in the description. "The player may take free relief by dropping the original ball or another ball..."
This question is about relief from cart path. Say that your ball is on the right side of the cart path, and the trees are not marked as a penalty area. If your a left hand golfer would the nearest point not be in the edge of the trees? What do you do in that case? Hopefully this makes sense.
The NPCR can't be in a Penalty Area. In a case like this, you'd probably go to the opposite side of the cart path. It is wherever the nearest point in the General Area is that provides complete relief
A potential overlooked problem is if the marked penalty area is actually inside the boundaries of the golf course and, if not, then the area should be marked out of bounds.
@larrybud When a Ball is OB, it Cannot be played. A Ball in a Penalty Area allows the Option of Playing the Ball as it lies. Leaving the confines of the Course very likely means you are Trespassing.
Imagine for a second that this is not a tutorial. It would take about 15 seconds to go through this procedure, which can and should be done while the other players in the group are playing. This causes no issue with pace of play.
The initial drop would still be on the cart path so you would still be taking relief from it in this scenario. The difference would be that the relief point would be further away as you would need to take complete relief from the cart path so you are not standing on it and then mark the 1 club length from there.
It’s good to know the rule just in case one of your friends wants to be a dick. Normally, our weekend group will just announce that we will be taking relief from everything. Keep it simple and keep it moving. I’ve only seen a couple of times where someone wanted extra relief and needed to be corrected.
Awesome job Jay! Love this video. You’ll never believe but my daughter scored an albatross in her US Kids tour championship last Sunday. A deuce on a 350 yard par 5 (age appropriate yardage). She’s 11! 495th amateur to sink a double eagle in tourney play. We (the dad caddies) appreciate all these videos my man!
UNBELIEVABLE!! An Albatross!?! And in the US KIDS Tour Championship?? What a memory of a lifetime. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing!! 🙌⛳️
@@JayRobertsGolf one proud dad to say the least. It was an incredible shot. Cant wait to see what the future holds. Hard work and dedication pays off!
I like that you give enough explanation so that the lesson sticks in the brain, without going too on long or just giving the basic answers. Your instruction videos really are exactly that, instructional. Thank you again Jay
I really appreciate that. I try to keep them as short as possible while hitting as many relevant topics as needed. Thanks for the comment
@@JayRobertsGolf the thing is the explanation stays with you. It's all good to read this stuff in the guide, but your explanations are bang on the money for sticking in the brain
Great video, well explained. Because you explain things carefully throughout, it does take 5 minutes to make the next shot, so in future, it would be lovely to finish with a 'real time' series of steps to show that it can be done in about 45 seconds!
Excellent explanation of the relief drop procedure.
The one stroke penalty also applies.
Thank you! I have been asking the USGA to have videos on every rule for years and its happening! You do an amazing job! It is so much easier to "show" relief and the relief area with your easy to understand videos!! Amazing!
Found your channel and love it! The explanations and videos are most helpful in understanding the rules!
Awesome, so glad you like it. Thanks so much!
Thank you for providing such clear details and the step-by-step explanation for taking the drops from the penalty area.
Perfect video. Just had this exact situation booth one of my high school golfer. I was not sure about the drop from the cart path so he dropped a ball back to the nearest relief instead of this option. I’m going to show him this video at practice. Thanks!
I was in a similar situation, except the ball came to rest just off the cart path, but not in the hazard. The distance from the red line to the cart path was about 8”, and the cart path was impeding my swing.(because it was elevated about 2” higher than the dirt) To my understanding, I cannot, or DO NOT have to drop into a hazard. So, I argued that I could drop on the opposite side of the cart path, giving me a free swing but not improving my line of sight to the pin. My playing partner argued that I had to play it as it lies. Was I correct in moving the ball , without penalty, to the nearest point of relief opposite side of cart path?
Just brilliant. Your explanation is so clear it almost makes the rules seem uncomplicated.
Thanks for that comment, Anthony! That’s really saying something lol. Really appreciate it.
I am studying to be certified as a USGA rules official. I am early in my journey and am somewhat fortunate I did not master the pre-2019 rules that would require me delete the old from my memory and then put to memory the new rules, terms, decisions, err I mean Interpretations etc. .:). Love this channel. Jay does an amazing job of making creative, detailed, yet concise videos that demonstrate the RoG. I have intentionally avoided content from all creators prior to the new 2019 R&A and USGA RoG else risk learning some key rules that no longer apply.
Welcome Rikkousa! Thanks so much for the comment! Do you have Facebook? There are a few groups worth joining that will keep your skills sharp with many questions/scenarios posted. It’s helped me a lot. I wish you all the best and if there is anything I can do to help just let me know. Look forward to seeing you in the comments!
Wow, this is the most understandable definition and instruction of one of the most complicated scenarios/rules of golf. 5 out of 5 stars, Jay. Thank you
Thank you very much!
Good video. I encounter players who, after the first drop, decide the nearest relief based on which side of the cart path is nearer the ball. I’ve failed to impress on them that the relief includes the stance (your feet have to be off the path when you take your simulated address position and put the tee down at the club head). If in your video you were left handed, you might have to drop in that narrow strip of rough between the edge of the hazard and the cart path, depending on that measurement including the stance. Big difference, possibly resulting in the lefty being unable to stand or swing! What would the lefty’s options be then?
I will be addressing that common 'myth' (relief side is closest to where the ball is) in a future video!
You are exactly right in your assessment of a left handed player in this scenario. If there is enough room to the right side of the path (penalty area side) for the ball to be on a spot that doesn't give the player swing interference with the path and is not in the penalty area, they could very well need to play on that side. I've actually encountered that exact scenario 2 times in the last 4 rounds I've played.
@@JayRobertsGolf This is why it's important to have the penalty area line as close to the obstruction (cart path) as possible, so that you don't trap a player of one hand or another by having them take free relief in a less than ideal spot, and give the other handed player an advantage for their relief.
@@JayRobertsGolf Great video, thanks!
Let me take the question one step further: in your example, the area between the path and the penalty area is narrow. If the nearest point of the relief for the ball were there, would a lefty be required to step into the penalty area to get full relief from the path (ball and stance)?
Not true. You must take complete relief. In this case a left handed golfer would have been standing in The penalty area for the next shot. That is nt complete relief. Additionally they could still take relief based on needing to play a right handed shot - which would have them on the cart part. After taking the drop away from the path, you can choose to play the shot left handed.
Learn the rules people.
Hi Jay - on Fraser's call this morning, he suggested I view your videos. Nice job!! Only 1 comment. Like you, I like proper terminology as I think it really helps people who are newer to the Rules. Please use Nearest Point of Complete Relief instead of Nearest Point of Relief. Like "hazard," NPR is an old term replaced by NPCR. Best wishes on a great concept. Jerry Glover
Hi Jerry! That is a valid point and well received. NPCR from here on out. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!
I enjoy these explanations of the rules with a visual, and I understand why we are supposed to do it in a competition that being said dropping twice placing and moving it beside the cart path takes time when you could have very easily come to about the same spot without the drops. The popular buzz is slow play and going through all that is slowing up play, I play in a league and most of us try to play fast but when we’re on a slope above water we place it instead of dropping twice and having to stop the ball from rolling into the water. And I said water not penalty area, for as long as golf has been people said hazard, trap and other now politically incorrect golf terms, I don’t give a rats rear end what the USGA and R&A say I still use the terms we’ve used since Bobby Jones was a pup
Jay great explanation, but what if due hole design all drop options near the relief point are closer to the hole... Drop no closer to the hole on the other side of green? Go to the point from previous shot? We discussed at length and are still undecided.
I might be misunderstanding the question but it sounds like you are blending together two potential scenarios.
If you are referring to an example like this video where you are taking lateral relief from a penalty area and you're unable to take two club-lengths because it would put you closer to the hole, then that option is unavailable. You would likely have to replay under stroke and distance, which you can always do. Am I understanding correctly?
Great job Jay! Good explanation!
I was wondering the same thing!
Lol. You may sleep in peace now
Excellent explanation !
Excellent video! Follow up question regarding using tees to mark your drop area. If you choose to mark with tees, are you required to retrieve them before you take a swing, or may you retrieve them after your swing (or even abandon them when, for instance, they are in a muddy/very rough area)?
Only just found this channel! Excellent!
Thanks, Richard! Appreciate the comment!
Excellent. Thank you!
Thank you for your knowledge.
Good to know! Thanks Jay.
👊🏽⛳️🏌️♂️👌🏻
plz keep making these video s great info
Great explanation. Thanks.
Thanks for the comment, Julius!
Thank you so much for your channel, I have really enjoyed your rule explanations. I was wondering if you knew of any group discussions on the rules of golf that I might be able to join? I am going to taking the USGA Rules exam in the near future and thought it might be helpful. Thank you
Hey Tony! So glad you find the channel helpful and excited for you about taking the exam! I'm part of several rules discussion groups on Facebook that have been very helpful in my rules journey thus far. You should check out "Golf Rules", "Golf Rules Officials", and the "USGA Rules of Golf Discussion". Questions/scenarios are posted constantly. You will inevitably find a lot of people who just guess or offer their opinion but you should be able weed those folks out pretty quick. Some of the best rules minded folks on the planet are part of these groups and participate. Best of luck and there's anything I can help with, just let me know!
Thanks for splaning
No problem. Thanks for the comment!
Great video. As a follow-up what would the situation be the same if the area, just of the cart path in the bushes, was not a penalty area but I decided to declare the ball unplayable.
You have the same relief options from an unplayable ball as for a red penalty area, so it would be identical.
Great explanation!
Thanks GIR Golf!
Thank you for explaining the rationale. My efficiency instinct kicked in, and was wondering why you wouldn't just skip the other drop.
If you are playing in a tournament yes do exactly like he says and follow the steps, but if you are playing a casual round with your friends I would just keep up the pace of play and skip the step to keep things moving. No need for anyone to be a rules Nazi if playing a fun round.
Great video jay … question… once u dropped the ball on the cart path it rolled, I would say one club length away from the original drop point …. I thought u got 2 club lengths of roll after the ball is in play after u drop the ball … I thought the ball was is play if it only rolled that far… as long as it doesn’t roll closer .. please explain thanks !
Thanks for the comment! The dropping procedure you reference was part of the old dropping relief procedures.
When taking relief under a rule currently, there is a pre-determined area (measured by either one or two club-lengths) where the ball must be dropped. That creates the relief area and is where the ball must be played next. If the ball rolls outside of this area (even if it only rolled a few inches from where it was dropped), it must be re-dropped. The ball must land in and come to rest in the relief area. Hope that helps! Follow up questions welcomed. Thanks again!
@@JayRobertsGolf thanks so much
Hi Jay. Love your videos. We had a rules issue the other day and couldn't figure out who was right.
Someone's ball landed on a cement footing that a boundary fence was cemented into. The footing extended about 4" inside and outside of bounds. The ball was inside of boundary. They had a shot without the fence interfering at all. But taking a stroke on it would probably damage a club.
We couldn't determine if the cement footing counted as part of the fence or not.
We gave a free drop but we're wondering if it was just unplayable.
Hey Matt, thanks for the comment and support. That's a tricky one without seeing it. Under Boundary Objects/1, "Objects that are attached to a Boundary Object but are not part of that Boundary Object are obstructions and a player may be allowed free relief". The key question here is, is the cement footing "part of" the boundary fence? The Rules cite 'angled supports' as an example of an obstruction that would not be part of the boundary fence for which free relief would be allowed (although the Committee can certainly dictate otherwise). I'm afraid I can't give a direct answer to this one but it would be a great question to ask your Committee about how they wish to treat that cement footing.
@@JayRobertsGolf Thank you so much for your answer. I appreciate that its free time when you do that. I believe the rule you listed covers its. Said a different way it was "The ground under the boundary fence was cement". But it definitely was not part of the fence.
Thanks again for your answer and your videos.
@@mattperzel7847 In that case, it sounds like relief is entitled and you did the right thing! Glad I could help. Thanks again for the comment and for the support!!
i'm really enjoying your video series on the rules of golf and i like to play by the rules and not be a rule breaker. i have a question about the rakes for sand bunkers, i had learned that the rakes were part of the bunker and should be kept when not being used in the bunker. what is your opinion on this and does it come under any rule? thnx.
Thanks so much for the comment! Whether to leave a rake in the bunker or out of it is completely course preference and not in the rules. There are pros and cons for each method. Personally, I like leaving them in because leaving them out can lead to rakes deflecting the ball from going in the bunker 🤷🏼♂️
@@JayRobertsGolf ok, i usually find them outside the bunkers when i play but i leave them in when i use them and i'm not sure what the policy is for the different courses i play but i'm gonna start asking at the clubhouse. i like your channel and thnx again.
@@steveperry1344 You can never go wrong with asking the clubhouse. I default to leaving them where I found them (if in leave in, out leave out). If a course truly wanted them in a specific place, they'll be sure to let you know 😉 thanks again!
@@JayRobertsGolf I completely agree. I've never understood why this reasoning doesn't trump any reason for leaving them outside the bunker. I really think leaving them in should be the standard, maybe even put in the rules for competition play.
Great video, thanks. One question/ observation.....looking at your marking nearest point of relief just off cart-path, given likely direction of swing it looks to me that path "COULD" still be interfering with line swing. I'd be taking a few more inches!
And that would be completely ok if you felt like you'd still have interference with your swing. Thanks for the comment, Eric!
Great Video I am gonna share with our league. but one Q, what about the right hand left hand person issue and measuring from both sides of the card path To find the nearest point of complete relief. Also I recently had a situation where the ball was sitting on the roots of a gigantic tree was on the right next to the side of the cart path. there was no penalty area. do you automatically go to the left side for relief.
Hi Jay. Sorry to trouble you with this one, but at 4:24 in your video you mention that the relief area could be estimated with, say, an 8 iron. In the rules definitions a Club-Length is described as the longest club in the bag, other than the putter. Whilst it makes absolute sense to speed up play be using the club in hand & not pulling the driver, where in the rules or their interpretations does it mention using a shorter club than a driver? I ask this as I'm studying to take my level two exam & it would be great to be able to pick up on 'nuances' such as this one.
Hey David, that's a good question. Yes about the definition of Club-Length. So, if you're longest club (other than a putter) was 43-inches, you have 43- inches to play with. That's it.
The Rules don't come out and say "you can measure with any club". But, they also don't say that physically measuring is a requirement. You don't even have to measure at all! So if you're not required to measure in the first place, how could you get penalized for using something to measure? The player is only responsible for dropping the ball in and playing from the relief area that would have been measured if the player had physically gotten their one club-length out and measured. Kind of like dropping from knee height. You don't have to be standing when you drop it, just drop it from the height of where your knee would be if you were in standing position.
If I were to point you to a Rule though, I'd say to look at NPCR/2. If you don't have to physically find or mark the NPCR, you can't penalize the player for not measuring, or measuring incorrectly. Hope this was helpful. Please let me know with any follow ups and good luck on the exam! When do you take it?
@@JayRobertsGolf Thanks for the clarification Jay. 2-day rules seminar mid-May in the North of England, then online exam shortly thereafter.
@@davidverity9576 No problem. Hope it helps and please keep me posted on your seminar and exam!
@@JayRobertsGolf Passed last month with 78.5%;-your videos really helped with this achievement, thanks Jay. Gotta get some practical experience now.
@@davidverity9576 That's so awesome! Thanks for sharing and congrats to you!! You will enjoy applying this knowledge in the field. But fair warning it's a different kind of world. For your first time you will feel like you know nothing! lol, at least it did for me haha
Good to know!
What's always lost to me is, can you play from the cart path? Not that I would consider playing off of a paved cart path, but some of the courses I play have a grassy median between the two road wheel lanes made by the the cart traffic. Am I required to take complete relief from the cart path?
You can always play it as it lies from the cart path. But if you decide to take relief from the cart path, it must be complete relief 👍🏼
love the channel - new sub
I appreciate you, Paul. Thanks a ton!
brilliant
Watching this, it struck me as a possibility that you could drop the ball in your (grass) relief area in the far corner (4:40 in the vid), closer to the cart path, and with the curve of the path, end up with your right foot placed back on the cart path. Is that just a redrop?
If after dropping the ball, you still had interference from the cartpath, that would mean that the ball came to rest outside of the relief area (a correct relief area would mean that no matter where the ball is in the relief area, you would not have interference with the cart path). So yes, you would be required to redrop in the relief area
Where did the two club lengths start? If it’s on the line of the bushes, would two lengths not make it to the other side of the cart path?
Well explained. However, if you had been left handed your nearest point of relief from the cart path would have been on the other side. What is the rule in that instance?
As long as you have just a sliver of relief area where the ball could lie that is 1) not in the Penalty Area, and 2) doesn't have interference with the cart path, you must drop on that side. It may not be a great next shot but you would have successfully gotten complete relief from the cart path.
Thanks Jay. Supplementary question - what if the penalty area was further away from the path, so when you took your drop the nearest point of relief was on the side closest to the penalty area. Obvs you have to take full relief so your nearest point of relief is now back in the penalty area. Does that then mean you can drop on the other side?
Also - what if you are taking a drop from an unplayable lie in a bush? Would the same apply or would you have to drop in your he bush again?
I'd love an answer to this question too.
NPCR has to be in the general area, so you'd drop on the other side of the path away from the PA. As for the unplayable, you'd want to play it from the path after the drop, since if the NPCR is in the bush, that's where you'd have to drop it.
You may want to add that when taking relief, although you did this, to always leave the ball where it is until the point of relief to drop has been identified. You may decide it's better to play it where it lies, but if you have already picked the ball up, there will be a penalty to put it back where it was.
😎 that is one of the 5 mistakes I’ll be covering when I release my NPCR video 👍🏼 thanks for the comment
Skybrook #17. 😂.. another great example Jay!
Question - Staying with this spot, suppose the ball did not go in the bushes but rests just 1 ft on the grass. It is playable but the stance would be on the cart path. In this case is cart path relief allowed and player drops on the left side?
Yes, you are not required to stand on the cart path and are entitled to relief to the nearest point of complete relief in the general area (which excludes penalty areas). So you would move to the left side of the cart path as there is no point of complete relief closer on the right side.
I had the same situation but I could clearly hit the ball. I was hitting from on the path. My question is, do I get free relief from penalty area as I am on foot path
What if you were LH player and the nearest relief from the path was between the path and the penalty area? Seems likely that you’d have to drop right of the path?
Sorry Jay - could you please list the amended rules effective January 2023. Thank you.
What if the nearest point of complete relief from the cart path was in the penalty area?
Then that wouldn't be your nearest point of complete relief (NPCR). The NPCR needs to be in the general area
Handy if I ever play an officiated tournament, but playing with friends I'm just going to skip to the part where I drop in that general area. Since we generally don't know the *exact* spot our ball went in (most of us are lucky to estimate within 10-20 yards) it's really all estimated anyway, so a couple of feet forward or backward isn't particularly relevant.
There are many times when the exact point of entry can’t be determined so the rules allow the player to estimate using their best reasonable judgement 👍🏼
if the ball rolled and settled in the drop area, but closer to the penalty area.. is nearest point of relief still on the side you ended up dropping to?(since there is no room for a stance without the ball being in the penalty area)
Slightly confused by your question but does this video help answer it?
th-cam.com/users/shortsx36I7ec8Aqo
what if...the 2 club length ended being closer to the other side of the path? would you then have to drop on the other side?
My additional question to that is what if your penalty drop on the cart path is in different spots? Meaning if it’s cart path relief after the drop, the ball marked on the cart path being more on what side? This would make a difference in what side of the cart path you will get the free relief. Your scenario had it go to the fairway side as the ball was closer to that side. If the ball was closer to the other side, you would be staying on the other side right? That would make the red stake not as close to the path from the start of the first relief
If that makes sense
My question is... as it actually happened with us.. and we had an arguement over it...
In your example, the cart path is on your right.. and then the red penalty line... and just for perspective, lets say the green is towards the north..
How would the rules apply if the green was in the south... and now the cart path and the penalty area was on ur left... there is about a one club length grass area between the cart path and the red stakes..(as per actual scenario)..
Thanks..
Sorry, trying to visualize the situation and having trouble. Can you try phrasing a different way? And is the player right or left handed?
Would a left handed golfer get additional relief due to the stance?
Yes, if the NPCR was on the left side of the path, the NPCR would be further away from the path for a lefty than a righty to account for the stance interference
Is there an easier way to know which are the 1 and 2 strokes penalties without having to delay the game to check on the rules?
I know an easier way to think about when you use 1 or 2 club-lengths but for penalties, I think it comes down to just memory and realizing the difference between a procedural penalty and something that could give the player a significant advantage over another player. But let me look into it. Could be a good video
What if the nearest point of relief was on the other (right) side of the cart path?
So referencing this example: what if your ball is resting an inch from a thick cart path(imagine same scenario just with a 4” slab of concrete instead of smooth like this one). You technically can get a club on it but can’t advance it type situation. Would I be able to take an unplayable onto the path? since I can’t drop in the penalty area I assume
Assuming you're talking about the ball being in the general area (meaning, not in the penalty area), if the path interferes with your stance or intended swing path, it's free relief. It's not an "unplayable", which implies a penalty, but free cart path relief as he demonstrated here.
How many strokes did you lose in this scenario?
Is back-of-the line relief allowed when taking relief from a cart path? Say there was a tree or something directly in the way where you are taking relief from the path - can you walk it back 50 yards within the rules?
Unfortunately, no. Relief from Abnormal Course Conditions (Ground Under Repair, Animal Holes, Immovable Obstructions, and Temporary Water) involve finding the nearest point of complete relief with a one club-length relief area
What happens if 2 clublenghs relief is on other side of car path.
culverts and drainage ditches with rocks ?
Why can you change the ball? I thought you could only do so if the ball was damaged?
The rules now allow you to substitute a ball when taking either free or penalty relief.
@@richardmclean25 Thank you, I didn't know that. Seems a bit out of left field and probably something I would never use, but there you go - I have learnt something.
Jay
A really weird event happened on course today. So I hit my 3 wood off the tee and it finished in the second cut between the fairway of my hole and the adjacent hole.
After identifying my ball correctly and noting that no one was coming up the adjacent fairway I preceded to make my shot into the green. Note my back was to the players who were coming up the adjacent fairway.
As I commenced my downswing, the group on the other fairway called “fore”. I continued with my downswing as it was already in motion. At the precise moment that I almost made contact with my ball, the ball from the player who called “fore” ran between my legs , knock my ball away and resulted in me striking the other persons ball
Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. None of us in my group were sure of the consequences re penalty etc.
what we did was replace my ball ( moved by an outside agent) and continued.
The other persons ball was recovered and placed where I had hit it from.
A one in a zillion chance. But would like to hear your rule interpretation.
Cheers
Flummoxed
WOW. Talk about a 1 in a Zillion! There is a few things to unpack here:
--Rule(s) that apply to you--
1) Unfortunately (and this is such a harsh break), you have made a "stroke" by definition (the forward movement of the club made to strike the ball) despite the fact that it was moved by an Outside Influence during the swing and was the reason why you missed the ball. So that swing counts a shot. 🥺
2) Under 9.1, when a ball moves during the backswing OR stroke and the player goes on to make the stroke (you finished the swing with intent to hit the ball), the ball must not be replaced and instead must be played as it lies no matter what caused it to move.
3) Since you replaced the ball back on it's original spot instead of playing it as it lies, you would incur the General Penalty for playing from a Wrong Place 🥺🥺
--Rule(s) that apply to the other player--
1) Assuming that you hit their ball while it was still in motion (not at rest) their ball would be considered to have accidentally hit an Outside Influence which means they would play the ball is it lies no matter where you ended up hitting their ball. Rule 11.1.
2) However, if you hit their ball while it was at rest, their ball would have been Moved by an Outside Influence and they would replace their ball back on it's original spot per 9.6
3) Still assuming you have hit their ball while still in motion (which is what it sounds like), they should have played their ball where it came to rest. Because they replaced it on the spot where you hit it, they too would incur the General Penalty for playing from a Wrong Place. 🥺
What a series of events!! I hope that is helpful??
You should have mentioned why you didn't consider the other side of the cart path as a possible relief area.
The ball was only a foot or so from the left side but I would agree that a sentence clarifying why it wasn’t on the right could have been helpful. I’ll wrap that up in a future video about NPCR. Appreciate the comment 👍🏼
But not everyone is right handed. The drop would’ve been on the other side if you were left handed.
@@JayRobertsGolfgood point but isn’t the other side of the path a penalty area?
What is actually considered a "cart path". Is it just a paved cart path, or does it include dirt cart paths as well, or even gravel?
Cart paths can be any of the above and even sand. If it's something other than sand, best to check with how the course/committee chooses to treat it (immovable obstruction or not)
Thought cart paths had to have material brought in to form the path. Ie. if the grass wears down to dirt you get no relief unless its marked as ground under repair. Must be careful suggesting sand is okay to take relief from.
He could have taken stroke & distance. Does this rule still apply on 2023 amended rule? Thank you.
What are the options for a lefty in this situation?
if the cart path interferes with your stance you have to do a third drop. mark the ball and do a third relief another club length away.
Is the first relief area the same for a lefty?
@@denisjl100 A third relief? The 2nd drop should be nearest point of *complete* relief. If a lefty doesn't have a stance, then the 2nd drop is not valid, and you drop again (then place, if necessary). The NPCR for the 2nd drop would just be farther from the cart path for a lefty. The only question would be if the red penalty area was marked such that a lefty could drop on the other side of the cart path.
@@GP-qz6kk what i read in the rules was nearest relief. and that is the grass on the other side of the cart path and that has to be within one club length. what you're suggesting is more than one club lengths. do we extend the relief area for lefties? how do you determine that the drop is farther for a leftie? there is nothing in the rule that tells me that it is different.
@@denisjl100 nearest point of complete relief is the point where the cart path is not interfering with any part of your swing, including your stance. So, your relief point is dependent on left/right- handed, and a lefty would get relief farther off the path to make room for their stance. This pertains to this example, and assumes there isn't room on the other side because the lateral penalty is right next to the cart path. If there is room on the other side for a lefty, then the 2nd drop would probably be there, but I don't see any reason for a 3rd drop/relief.
One club length is after you determine the nearest point of complete relief. The NPCR is just that, the nearest point (that allows complete relief to make a swing), no more or less, so really has no other distance limit. Then, one club length from there.
There's probably another video on this channel that will help explain it better. Or, I'm pretty sure the USGA rules app has a decent video on it, and shows how it differs depending on left/right-handed.
And what, if the nearest point (from car path) is in the penalty area?
You only covered one of the 4 possibilities. I play a lot of match play and would have liked to see that explanation.
Number of penalty strokes is 1?
It was a good video for sure, but I don’t think that would work if you were left-handed or the ball would have bounced differently as the nearest point would’ve been on the other side of the path maybe. Obviously you would’ve done the same thing, but the hazard would’ve been in play so that would’ve been a different rule,maybe you should do one on that also thanks.
I agree, can you cover what would happen if the nearest point of relief would have been to the right, ie. back into the hazard? This actually happened in an LPGA Tournament about 2 years ago. They went round and round finally dropping on the side of the cart path away from the hazard although it clearly it was not the nearest point of relief. Announcers never explained what was happening clearly.
You neglected to mention how many penalty strokes that shot into the final penalty I?? Is it one only fo all of the placing and replacing or is a 1 stroke extra penalty each time it’s move??
Sorry, it's 1PS to take relief from the penalty area. Then free relief from the cart path. Total of 1 penalty stroke altogether!
Can you always show how to get relief BOTH right and left handed golfer
what if the relief area by cart path rule would be inside of penalty area again?
It can't be. You get the nearest point of complete relief in the general area (this excludes penalty areas). So in this case, there is no point of relief available on the right hand side of the path.
So for every relief taken, is it a stroke penalty?
One stroke for the relief from the penalty area, but you get free relief from the cart path.
You can't estimate with your 8 iron, because if the ball drops outside your marked area you don't know if it is still inside the relief area of the driver
Yes, because decreasing the Relief Area would allow you to PLACE the Ball, IF Both Drops didn't stay inside the smaller RA
Thumbs up!
Rec golfers: you know the ball had to cross the cart path and you know you get relief from cart path. So just do a drop on the grass within a club length from cart path and hit away. (20 sec!)
What happens if the nearest point of relief is back in the hazard. This happens quite often when you're pin-high with the green, and the cart path is between the hazard and the green.
No longer called a hazard. It is a penalty area and you cannot drop in any condition that you are taking relief from. You must take complete relief. The NEAREST point of relief may not be very close to where the ball is or originally crossed into a penalty area so you would keep moving in the closest direction no closer to the hole to where you have complete relief. Even if it is 15 yards to one side or the other. You see it all the time in PGA Tour events when they hit the ball over the green and up next to or into the grandstands.
@kennyoliver2403 thanks for the detailed explanation, appreciated!
What if it rolled to right side of cart path by penalty area
It depends. If it came to rest within the relief area, you have completed taking relief and the ball is in play. You could play it as it lies or take further relief from the cart path. The Penalty Are line is too close to the path for a right-handed player to take relief to the right side so the NPCR would still be on the left side of the path and from that point you have a one club-length relief area to drop for free. If it rolled towards the PA but came to rest outside of the relief area you must drop again.
@@JayRobertsGolf thank you,
How many penalty strokes do you get in this situation? Just 1? Or is it 2 because you count the drop on the cart path + the next drop onto the grass? 🤔
A total of 1 penalty stroke in this situation. The penalty stroke comes from taking relief from the penalty area. Once the ball is in play on the cart path, you then take free relief.
One issue I have is that you pressed the grass down with your feet in the drop area to the left of the cart path before dropping your ball. I would be more comfortable having you not do that if I was playing against you in a tournament. I see people doing this in the bunker too when taking unplayable lie. They will step all over the drop area compressing the sand with their feet and drop on the foot prints. Best to leave any drop area in virgin condition as it was when you started the relief process. I noticed dew on the grass in the drop relief area where you dropped your ball. Having stepped in the drop area with your shoes, that would have eliminated the dew interferring with your lie. That is not allowed. Dew is not a removable impediment. It is the cumulative effect of both compressing the thick grass and removing the dew that might get you into trouble with opponents.
Whenever there's a Second Drop being made, it's a Good Idea to first focus on and identify where the Ball strikes the Ground and then see if the Ball has stayed in the Relief Area.
Who cares! Foot wedge will do! LoL
Is it a penalty for not marking the relief area if the other players clearly see the player dropped in a correct spot even though they didn’t use tees to mark the area?
It is recommended to mark the relief area to ensure the ball is being dropped in the right place but there is no requirement to do so.
Thank you Jay! I’ve been trying to find out where it says that in the rules as it came up in our club competition. I’d like to show them.🙋♀️
@@birdiebirk This is a question that you won't find directly answered in the Rules. But, the best place to look would be under the definition of Nearest Point of Complete Releif and it's second Clarificaiton (NPCR/2) where it states that you do not need to physically siumluate or follow the recommended procedure so long as you get the ball in the right place. As with other scenarios on the golf course, like determining where the ball last crossed the penalty area, the player is only required to do what is reasonably expected under the circumstances to make an accurate determination (i.e. use their best reasonable judgement) (R1.3b(2)).
@@JayRobertsGolf You are so good! Thank you again! You've been a great help!
So…in that scenario, that would include (2) penalty strokes?
Only 1! We took relief from the penalty area for 1 stroke. Then we took relief from the cart path which is free!
Can NPCR be in a bunker?
It can be but the ball must be in the bunker. If there is interference by an Abnormal Course Condition when you’re in the bunker, you must find the NPCR in the bunker. In this case, my ball on the cart path is in the general area. So when taking relief for an abnormal course condition, the NPCR and the relief area must all stay within the general area!
Substitute the ball if you wanted?
Yes, when taking relief under 16.1 (and many other rules) you are allowed to substitute the ball
@@JayRobertsGolf 16.0 is abnormal course conditions. Aren't we talking about a cart path? you do get to change the ball if it has not been damaged ?
@@vargasbasti A cart path is an Immovable Obstruction which is one of the four Abnormal Course Conditions under rule 16. Whenever you are taking relief under a rule (either penalty relief or free relief), you are allowed to substitute the ball. The rule is in the description. "The player may take free relief by dropping the original ball or another ball..."
@@JayRobertsGolf thx
Wilding
So....is it 1 penalty stroke then
Strange you didn't use the driver to measure the 2 club length relief area
How come? It was measured, just not shown in the video. The rules don't require you to physically measure
This question is about relief from cart path. Say that your ball is on the right side of the cart path, and the trees are not marked as a penalty area. If your a left hand golfer would the nearest point not be in the edge of the trees? What do you do in that case?
Hopefully this makes sense.
What if your point of nearest relief from the cart path was back in the penalty area?
The NPCR can't be in a Penalty Area. In a case like this, you'd probably go to the opposite side of the cart path. It is wherever the nearest point in the General Area is that provides complete relief
What if your nearest point of relief was on the other side of the cart path?
Why not simply take back on the line relief in this scenario?
A potential overlooked problem is if the marked penalty area is actually inside the boundaries of the golf course and, if not, then the area should be marked out of bounds.
We should get rid of OB altogether and mark everything as a penalty area.
@larrybud When a Ball is OB, it Cannot be played.
A Ball in a Penalty Area allows the Option of Playing the Ball as it lies.
Leaving the confines of the Course very likely means you are Trespassing.
And this helps Pace of Play How🤷♂️
Imagine for a second that this is not a tutorial. It would take about 15 seconds to go through this procedure, which can and should be done while the other players in the group are playing. This causes no issue with pace of play.
But...what if you were left handed?
The initial drop would still be on the cart path so you would still be taking relief from it in this scenario. The difference would be that the relief point would be further away as you would need to take complete relief from the cart path so you are not standing on it and then mark the 1 club length from there.
It’s good to know the rule just in case one of your friends wants to be a dick. Normally, our weekend group will just announce that we will be taking relief from everything. Keep it simple and keep it moving. I’ve only seen a couple of times where someone wanted extra relief and needed to be corrected.