For math and compsci, the knowledge you gain builds on top of itself. So the more you know the easier it becomes. Conversely the less you know the harder it is. People usually don’t like doing things they don’t like and if you don’t do a lot of math it’s just very difficult. Anyone can get good at math if they put in the time and effort and believe in yourself.
I completely agree. You have to practice and it’s easier to practice if you find enjoyment. There’s a saying that “C’s get degrees” and that is true but if you move onto more advanced subjects without mastering the basics, you’ll quickly fall behind.
@@ninjapirate123 Depends on the program. Some are more math-centric than others. The school I went to the CS dept was under the math dept so there was a lot of math and more of an emphasis on formal models. Most of which you needed for one purpose only - to pass the final ;)
The reason Calculus is so hard is that you need to have a firm grasp on ALL highschool math. You need to know factoring, graphing, logs, trig, radicals, exponitals, algebra (ALOT OF ALGEBRA). Every problem you do will require at least one of these concepts. On top of that, you're learning all the new concepts like limits, derivities, integrals, and all their applications. So if you don't have a firm grasp of these concepts, you'll find yourself struggling before you even get to the calculus part of the problem. A lot of the times calculus can't be done until you manipulate the equation so that it satisfies a certain rule that can be done. And you have to be good enough at it that you know what direction to go. You can easily find yourself going down a path to solve a problem and you look at the answer and it's completely wrong.
I think the lack of hand-holding contributes to this greatly. For example, in the calculus series, I always knew what I should know because the professor would tell me. The concepts that were explored in class, were the same concepts re-explored in homework and on tests. And the problems we solved in class were expressed as those which had a one-trick solution. So, there was a clear connection between lecture & practice. But in CS courses, I think the connection is less clear. I've had many courses where the lecture is pure theory and the assignments are application. Many times, the assignments explore new concepts/problems/tools that were not taught in class at all. And so, the student has to bridge that gap on their own. This can be a pain-staking process for people expecting that they would be shown what to do in any case. In addition to this, the kinds of problems cs tackles are those which do not always have one-trick solutions, there are many ways to write an algorithm which solves some particular problem. And so, there is creativity there as well, which makes it to where there is less of standardized roadmap for a student to follow to achieve the expected result. These in combination I think work against new students entering the major because it's not visible until you're in the program and doing the work. And so, when students realize that instead of being shown how to be a hacker, developer, programmer, problem solver, etc. they have to do it on their own time, they realize their expectations do not align with CS and drop out.
Tbf, programming in the real world you have to look up for either a library or algorithm from stack overflow or come up on your own or use a general resource There’s no guideboook to tell you which algorithm is optimal and why etc
Most if not all Computer science students will go through Calculus and and some sort of Discrete Mathematics. These topics are really hard for first year students because most K-12 schools don't require you to have little to none background on Logic instead they come to college and go through the first course in coding thinking "coding is pretty easy" and comes 2nd semester they all are wanting to drop/switch majors because the workload is too intense.
I dropped from a CS major to a CS minor. I had a lot of fun writing my own programs, had all A in my projects and homeworks, I also went to a T20 school in the US for CS. My problem started when I realized I was a really bad test taker, and couldn't pass Algo. If all my classes only graded me on my programming skills I would be an A+ student, but being a nervous test takers, and not being able to critically thinking out of my way fast enough really made me feel depressed. The fact that I would ace 50% of projects and then fail 50% of the tests to get a passing C in my classes destroyed my self confidence. It made my doubt myself, with the addition that I was risking losing my scholarship I just couldn't deal with the pressure anymore. I still haven't give up yet tho. Just because one way doesn't work for me doesn't mean the entire path is closed for me. Just need to do more leetcode, more algo practice and more projects.
I feel like part of why is how colleges teach programming, they try to teach too many different languages. In my community college and my first year of university I had to learn C++, C#, Java, visual basic, and assembly, and in pretty much every class I feel like I never really learned the language it felt like it was just enough to pass the class but not enough experience to actually use them outside of school.
Usual schools pick one and stick with it C and C++ are common for memory management However, Java and python are predating they are industry standard Nevertheless, some languages are tied to their purposes Eg python can compete with R for data analysis But game designs are in c# or c++ All of these make it completely to make it uniform language
Yea man, it can be tough but it's incredibly rewarding. You just have to ask yourself if it's something you really want to do and if it is, I'm sure you can make it happen. I have faith in you!
The bottom line that people don't see until they start taking class in CS is that it's hard! CS and programming is romanticized to the public for example we all are told that you can make so much money like $600,000 a year which may be true but what's left out is that it takes a lot of work and studying to get to that point. Nothing that in life gives a big reward with out work and struggles. If it wasn't hard everyone would be doing it.
im about to graduate with my BA in economics with a minor in business and i will like to give my two cents on this. i enjoy the concepts of compci (i'm currently taking some compsci electives such as algorithm design and analysis) and i'm learning how to program using javascript, python, R and SQL, (for data analysis) but i think also part of the reason compsci has a high drop out rate is the perceived return of investment after getting the degree. the job market for software engineers is crazy right now as people are getting laid off. i feel like a great mix of compsci and a somewhat understanding of microeconomic theory (how firms and businesses work) can make a solid compsci degree absolutely worth it! my advice, don't just get the compsci degree because everyone else is doing it. figure out a solid plan with the degree, learn the costs and benefits of choosing the degree (pros vs cons) and then earn that high paying job that can land you a decent living space. i'm from california, and living conditions here are way expensive than it should be!
I would say some people just cannot code. Coding skill requires a certain amount of talent, just like mastering a music instrument. I have friends in EE , ME, or MATH major who are terrific at Math and logics, but cannot out figure how to pass an entry level programming class.
I agree that some are simply not suited to coding but I think that speaks more to people's personalities. If you can solve problems, it's very likely that you'll be good at programming.
@@CompSciCentral for me programming is still different to maths. I am good at math (tho' I suck at some math subjects like Trigonometry but they're much fewer than those I'm good at) but I suck a lot at programming. Here are the reasons why I suck at programming: 1.) Programming is a new concept to me. I- or rather, we, have been studying mathematics since we were kids. I'm the type of person who when encountered with an entirely new concept, I will struggle a lot. 2.) Math is simply following the formula and that's it. Meanwhile in programming, you have to think of ways on how to make it work which requires lots of complicated thinking. I love problem solving but it doesn't mean that I will automatically be good at programming which requires problem solving skills. 3.) This will definitely sound ridiculous. But Programming for me kinda made my mind too aphantasiac. Because I always have to think of codes 24/7. I am an aspiring visual artist. And ever since I became too immersed in programming, it feels like my visual imagination went down by a lot. At least in engineering like civil and mechanical, I have to visualize the product that I will do while being good at math. I can relate math to art by a lot. But programming, not really. So after this pandemic, I plan to get back to studying in college in civil or mechanical engineering.
I think they would be able to pass the entry level programming class if they worked harder, I am a second year I.T. student and boy was I shocked at how hard I found my entry level programming unit, I think I managed to get 60 percent with a lot of frustration and stress. I remember the students first year hounding the lectures, "This is bs, I'm going to switch to engineering, this is way too much for a first year unit". Admittedly, there were some students who were only 18 me being 27 who just picked it up and got HD's who had never coded before either. I still suck at coding but I am way better than when I first started out after doing it for two years. So, students should just keep at it and maybe structure their degree to have other options open, I agree with what was said in this video. That there is no class that you would have likely taken that prepares you for programming. You go into a maths degree, well that builds off maths you learnt at school. Just get over that hurdle first year and it will become more straight forward. Everything is hard until it is easy!
9.8% really seems low to me. What I experienced was around 20%-25% at an average state school. At more prestige CS schools like UCLA or USC, it is around 5% as students are much more devoted to study.
I went back to school at my local community college in the fall of 2017 after graduating high school in 2012. I wanted to do CS at first but realized there was a lot of math which intimidated me. So, I decided to do an IT associates degree that only made me take College Algebra, thinking that if I wanted to be a software developer, I could just move up. LOL. I took an intro to programming class in Java during my second semester and I really liked it. Then my third semester in spring 2019, I realized how my IT major was completely useless, my core classes were not teaching me anything and I felt like I was wasting my time. So, I decided to switch my major to CS. That summer I took Pre-Calc in 6 weeks and after not doing math for about 1.5 years, I struggled badly. Then Calc 1 wrecked me along with an 9AM intro chem class. That was such a brutal semester because I was only sleeping 4 hours a day while attending school fulltime and working 20-25 hours. Just now, as I am writing this, it is finals week at my first semester at my local 4 year university as a CS major. I decided to retake CompSci II because the last time I programmed was in the spring of 2019. Since 2019 up until January of 2021, I have only done Math courses and Chemistry courses. Writing this comment made me realize how I've fucked myself by not sticking to my original goal all the way back to early 2017 when I was thinking of going back to school. I guess the lesson that I have for anyone reading this comment, is to have a conversation with yourself and know that you have to work hard if you want to do a Computer Science degree. If you are not willing to change your work habits to succeed then do not enter. I've had to work 20-25 hours while taking some really hard classes and at times only sleeping 2 hours. I still have a long way to go, but damn I cannot wait until I finally graduate.
Thanks for sharing, I recently enrolled back into college with my mind set up for this cs degree. The only problem that messes with me is that every thing is still in this remote learning crap. Calculus is high level and TH-cam can only do so much. I guess hope for the best
I agree with the other two replies, and of course, thanks for sharing! While deciding to finally work hard is important, I think what messes people up the most is the surprise we feel after taking the CS degree and learning how much harder the calculus and physics here is than it was in high school, especially if we never had any seniors to consult with before taking the degree. I guess that's why we're lucky its the age of the internet XD still wish I asked someone before getting myself into this
My CSII teacher said this "Computer science is a science. In your intro classes you are learning a lot of the basic applications you can do, after this class is over you can be a basic code-monkey for many jobs out there, but you don't really understand it, you are going through the motions. You can look at a formula in math and put it in a calculator, but don't really know why it got the answer. The future classes are more theoretical, you delve into the science part of computer science, not just the computer programming." That isn't an exact quote, paraphrased. But he really pointed out how most people who start computer science don't really realize it is a "science" at first. They may have taken the intro classes or a class in highschool where they learned programming techniques and realize that developing really simple things is well, simple. When you go into physics, you know it is a science, you know it is going to use math and logic to some degree. Same for biology, chemistry, and even engineering. But most people don't see computer science that way at first. They don't realize how theoretical and how logic and math based it gets until they're already a few courses into their major. I know a good majority of CS majors at my school complained about how the CS major was too "theoretical" and how they really like the applied stuff but hated the theoretical stuff and just pushed through it to get to the more interesting things My boss (I am a research assistant at my uni) said that next semester the school is thinking about adding another major option called "Applied Programming" or something like that for all the people who love the application stuff but don't care for the theory. So while "computer science" will have classes like data structures, operating systems, discrete math (logic math), etc, applied programming would have things like web-development, game design, mobile development, etc Of course you would be able to take electives in each other's degrees, but the emphasis would be on theoretical vs application, which I think is cool, but could also be counter productive. I don't know the details of the applied programming degree yet, but if they don't take things like calculus, linear algebra, statistics, and data structures, how would they take a machine learning course? That is the most popular CS elective at my school lol, I know there is demand for it, but you do need a ton of the theory to actually understand how to do it, so we'll see how that goes. I am gonna stick to computer science lol
its a high drop rate cause people go in it for the money not really having a passion for it, cause if you have a passion for computer science, dont even gotta study, your gonna pass that shit with ez
Also Just use common sense If you've used basic math Just use common sense I found python ,c++ etc very difficult But SQL r etc r easy Some languages r easier for some people
I never tookk that kind of math before college either. If you still have any interest in development, check out teamtreehouse.com. I'm learning web development there and it's by far the best learning platform I've ever used. And they don't make you learn anything that you won't actually use, like Calculus lol. Have a great day!
1) it is hard because of the math. It really is a discrete math degree with some coding added in. 2) programming in CS is not fun Python, it is horrible C/C++. People who maybe have Python exposure will get a rude awakening when they have to write C code inside the Linux kernel and it involves pointers to pointers and the kernel needs to be recompiled every time you change something or C++ code to effect a red-black tree rebalance. You are NOT creating fun apps, and if you are interested in the front end, forget it, you are never going to touch JS, CSS, HTML in a CS degree program. And if you do not live on the command line CS schooling is also going to be uncomfortable. The people I saw be successful in CS had no issues with math whatsoever, and already knew how to code when they started. Everyone else, it is a struggle.
That is exactly right, thank you for the comment. I had very little programming knowledge when I started and the math bit was difficult. Discrete isn't too bad but the various Calculus classes almost killed me.
@@CompSciCentral Up until a couple of years ago my school required Differential Equations for a CS undergrad degree. You might recall some exposure to Diff EQ in Calc II. That is straight up scary math.
@@MSneberger It really is. The previous school I attended also required Calc 3: Multivariable calculus because it was an engineering school. I left there after calc 2 and the University I'm finishing my degree at only requires Calc 1 so I never had to go that far, thankfully.
I took my CS classes in the 70s. I'm a little surprised schools are requiring so much math. In my career I haven't had to use much math. It's pretty much all logic and problem solving. I can't remember any of the calculus I once did, mainly because I've never used it. Mostly it's been trig when I needed math at all beyond the basics. Most of my programming in the early days was in assembler. Today I mostly do C and I like the language a lot. I like Python for quick and dirty stuff -- mostly utilities, tools, experimentation and testing.
@@donjindra That's really comforting because I'm terrible with advanced Calculus lol. Logic and problem solving are right up my alley though. Thanks for commenting, Don, I hope you have a great Easter!
My school had a 54% drop out rate in comsci, higher than any other major at the school. I dropped out, went to community college and am now back in uni (different school) to get the comsci degree. I should graduate a semester or two late. The reason I droped it goes deeper than hard classes or weeder courses. I actually did okay in clac 2 and other weeder classes, but it was so bloody toxic. Seeing friends fail over something that was absolute bs, vague requirements on assignments and politics within the faculty are a major reason why I left. Had some really good profs in my first school but overall it was a bad experience. I find that schools that place the CS with the Science faculty over the Engineering faculty makes a big difference as well (with science being better imo).
I actually had a similar experience. I didn't drop out but I had to switch schools. Sorry you had a bad experience but if it makes you feel better, I hear a lot of horror stories in CS but after you graduate, it's all worth it! Good luck, James!
That amount of people that dropped after the first year of the associates degree was about 50%. I'm currently in the BAS program at my school and people tell me I'm smartest person in the program and I'm like lol I copy and paste stuff from online and change it up and repurposed as my own... I've been programming since I was 14 and I love computers, you need to have passion and not get too lazy. Currently have a 4.0 GPA for my BAS, Stats was pretty easy.
That's kinda crazy it's such a high drop rate mainly because of the math involved. I've always been really good at math and even got my math minor along side my CS degree. I didn't realize it could be such a turn off for people.
I thought I was good at math until I took Calculus lol. That's cool that you minored in math though, I think that's a great idea. Especially considering we already take so much math with out CS degree.
One factor in this is that you may not actually need a degree to get a job - or - a "degree" from a trade school is actually regarded more highly by some employers as it concentrates more on practical application (coding) than theory. Here, Computer Science - is often not what your degree is in - as Computer Science is part of the Math Department - so you degree is really in Math. Also, it could be that you have a lot of people who like using computers to play games on and surf the web - and think that this has any bearing what so ever on getting a Computer Science degree. Of course - this is all over and above the fact that it there are a number of people who change majors in college. They start off Undeclared and dabble in a bunch of things trying to figure out what they want to do. They might think they like something and declare that their major but then subsequently change to something else. One factor in that - could be the realization that what they were majoring in won't help them get a job. Expecting someone just out of High School to be able to accurately plan the rest of their life may be a bit much. .
@@CompSciCentral Here though - one thing should be mentioned - in that for some employers - that 4 year University Degree - makes a lot of difference in what you will be paid ... Thus - while the guy with a degree or certification from a trade school may well not have a hard time finding work ... his advancement ... might be limited. I have a friend ... who (iirc) kind of got kicked out of college ... because he sort of stopped going. The _reason_ he stopped going - was because he was working for a small company that was building an industry dominating medical device wherein his electrical engineering work on it's circuit boards and assembly language programming of it's software were a very important part. They beat the pants off the big company's machine so ... in the tradition of "if you can't beat them - buy them" the big company bought them out and made them all rich. Then he got married and his wife spent all his money ... The problem here ... is that ... that was 40 years ago ... and now ... when he goes looking for work ... he doesn't have that University Degree ... That and ... he's 40 years older ... and he can't live in his office, sleep on a cot, with a small fridge and a microwave ... and have a desk drawer full of chocolate ... going home once a week to change clothes ... then come back to the office ... One of the advantages of working for larger organizations ... is that often times - they have on site showers ... .
Cs is as braindead as most subjects The issue is that when you don't understand something you are immediately pubished and other subjects you can kind of get away with not truly understanding Like most math subjects if you didn't learn the previous thing well it will haunt you in the next but if you did the next thing is easy
Just giving my two thoughts as I started university in a Scandinavia university this fall. I've studied economics before CS and I have to say the biggest challenge so far for me is to understand the professors. Half of the assignment is understanding the assignment , ie half the time you sit there thinking "what the hell are they trying to say?" As compared to economics where half the time you think "why the hell do they say that?"
I think the professors are a huge reason I disliked it as well! You can know a lot but still struggle bc your teacher is bad at communicating, and in our uni I could tell most teachers were just straight A students who got degrees, not 'teachers'
I am going to pass my CS Undergrad in June'22. And believe me what my expectation were getting into CompSci vs what I learned and got from the course are completely different. You go in thinking you will learn new technology which is partly true but courses like comp arch, automata theory, algo design, compilers, etc f***ing destroy you.
I looked at the degree plan and I did see it requires Calculus and a lot of Science classes even Physics. I have the idea I would not wanna major in it I'm sure that I don't wanna do a lot of math or Physics at least I finished College Algebra.
There is little math in a typical work day for a CS professional. Algebra, linear algebra...that's really it. I do think you should take calculus, but in my decades of career? Barely. Any. Calculus.
Most make the mistake of choosing a BS instead of a BCSA. A Bachelor of Computer Science and Arts is still a valid computer science degree and will teach you most of the modern popular concepts of computer programming with only like 1-2 math courses. Just a tip, anytime you choose a BS (Bachelor of Science) - it's similiar to saying "I passionately love math with all my heart". So before you drop out, consider switching to a BCSA instead, most colleges offer an Arts alternative of CS...it's much easier when considering the math required.
Just saw this amazing figure today: in the description of an ASU CS masters thesis by Akshay Kumar Dileep I see this statement: "Calculus has high failure rates which corroborates with the data collected from Arizona State University that shows that 40% of the 3266 students whose data were used failed in their calculus course." Ouch! Points to math being a reason people drop CS.
The university I went to banked on the dropout rate. They ran the freshmen through a few courses with high lab fees that were taught by TA's so they were low expense classes and pocketed the surplus for use in the higher level courses once the students had been whittled down to the ones that were serious. Not that the school wanted students to fail, but they weren't going to hold their hand all the way through the program either.
I'll be 40 next month and I'll have a CompSci degree this fall. I never found anything too difficult in my going back to school. Though my school and program had a lot of math (Calc I-III and Discrete Mathmatics) I had no idea that this degree program had one of the highest drop out rates. I loved my Data Structures class (taught in C++) and really disliked Python. Go figure.
That's awesome! Congrats! I just finished my last semester and started my first job as a Junior Web Developer a few days ago. I can't wait for you to finish... It's so gratifying! Good luck with your last semester and with your career after school! -Tim (Comp Sci Central)
I just started on this path at 27, and I believe it’s because in your teens, you’re just not mature yet to be able to handle the studying and sacrifices. At 27, I will study all weekend and not feel like I’m missing out (the weekends are actually when I do most of my learning), but if I was 18, forget about it
@@High_Rate136 Agreed. When I was 18 or 19, I wasn't mature enough to sit down and just study. I wanted to play games and live life. Well, now I'm 32 and here I am, trying to grind hard to learn how to program.
@@CompSciCentral In Germany study fields in high demand like medicine, psychology just accept the students with the best high school degree. Despite the economy searching heavily for worker with an IT degree, everyone is accepted for a computer science university program. So having a very good job perspective and not having a good high school degree works out. Plus, studying in Germany is free, so many think „why don’t give it a shot?“. They expect some programming, some building and maintaining a computer, but nothing like math or theoretical informatics. I’m studying at a private university with a scholarship, were the bars are high to get in, but in a „normal“ computer science university program, you‘ll basically start with 120 students and graduate with a handful of students. In the first two semesters you have dropout rates of almost 60% at some universities, students get frustrated and fail purposely hard exams in basic computer science courses or spend double or triple of the regular time at the university, trying to rewrite and rewrite failed exams. I’m glad I don’t study in this situation, I‘d feel very uncomfortable knowing that most of the people I start studying with will eventually drop out. The atmosphere wouldn’t be nice at all... While public universities aren’t bad, this situation just frustrate a lot of students, they spend time on a degree they won‘t probably get and just aren’t able to study and who would be way happier doing something else; because although computer science is in demand, I don’t think it‘s right to push everyone in that industry when their abilities are somewhere else...
In the US the college admission into a CS major is typically competitive and students that are admitted already passed some criteria on minimum required grades and test scores. Therefore the dropout rate is relatively lower. In Germany CS is pretty much open admission and the academically weaker students drop out after failing the first year of exams and change majors. The advantage of the German system is that more students gets a shot at trying to make it without all the college admission drama.
Do you have to remember every single thing you was taught throughout your college career in computer science on the job or is it normal to forget some stuff?
It's totally normal to forget stuff. Employers mostly want to know that you're a good problem-solver. They especially want you to solve the types of problems that their business is facing. I going to cover career advice on this channel so feel free to subscribe if you want to be notified of that content in the future. Take care. -Tim
I'm gonna be honest, I was a computer science student for my first year of college and after that I changed my major and moving on to something else coding was too hard and confusing for me.
At the very least they should be learning logic and logical thinking which will set them up to not only understand programming concepts but also help them become productive and independent thinkers.
First year CS student here! I remember a senior of mine jokingly say that the CS major is just a maths minor in disguise, and after failing my first calculus class, I'm kind of scared for the future. I'm one of those COMPLETE beginners just fascinated with what the work behind my favourite games and sites were, and despite the isolation I felt when I realised almost everyone in my intro course were already experienced and/or good at maths, I still did well despite this very new subject!....until my first math course (calculus). Right now I guess I just want to know if I'll be okay, and if someone who barely passed math in high school can still last in a CS program.
Hey I'm sorry for the late reply but let me just tell you, I felt the exact same way! I started my degree at 25yo and all the 17/18yo's seemed like they knew so much compared. My math was so bad I had to take several math classes before I was even able to take Calculus. Now I'm almost finished with my degree and I've learned so much through all the struggles and I've also grown a lot as a person. Studying CS was the one of the best decisions I ever made. Do I think it's for everyone? No. But that's up to you to figure out. Personally, I believe you can do it :D
@@CompSciCentral Hey thanks for the reply, I almost forgot I posted a depressing comment like this on the internet XD I'm 23, so the experienced 17/18y.olds are very intimidating to me as well but I didn't name their ages or mine out of embarrassment, thank you so much for mentioning that! I'm glad you got through those tough times and made it this far, it gives me hope for myself since I'm still very interested in this field and have no idea what else I'd be pursuing. I hope you'll keep posting helpful videos like this for CS and CE students, you have no idea how these make some of us feel less lonely in situations where students couldn't want less to do with each other. It can be pretty cutthroat.
@@PichuElric I totally get it man. A lot of people experience some level of isolation in CS/CE and probably other degrees tbh. But yea that's really why I started this channel as well as my blog compscicentral.com because I don't think the experience should be like that. And I'll definitely make some more videos soon, i've been slacking! lol. Feel free to reach out anytime tho. Good luck!
compsci and engineering are harder in fluid intelligence required as well as work put in than other majors at the same university, so if its too hard people switch out also it has higher starting salaries, so people after money and not following their interests enter it and people doing this drop out also it is the main work, people want to be the main driver and not support services of society, so people choosing for this reason may choose engineering and drop out because it doesnt fit their real interests also some people who are just nerdy may end up there because they think it fits their personality but again not their dreams or interests thats just my 2 cents
It's amusing that the calc required for majors like Comp-Sci are actually very nearly nearly never used in comp-sci. Calc, for instance, can be useful in physics simulations but that's not comp-sci, that's physics or engineering. Maybe linear algebra might be used in parts of discrete math (often a weed-out course for comp-sci) like in hashing or more typically in crypto. Heck, the only computer topic where calc is really useful/necessary would be stuff like machine-learning. Generally, calc won't be used IN comp-sci, and rather nearly never post graduation in your career either.
Hello sir, i a an international medical student. But i think i should have studied cs in America. I am depressed thinking that without a cs knowledge, i am leaving an opportunity to be the next Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg. What should i do?
You should do what's best for you, but only you can know what that is and only you can make that decision. I'm sorry for the situation that you're in and I'm sorry that I can't help you make your decision but I'm confident you'll make the choice that's best for you. Take care :D
Because most student just thought the high paying salary but no interest in CS concept theory. And social media hype lead to everyone wanting to major CS, and end up dropping out.
This is a second post on a different aspect of education - that of training your mind. Here is a clip from the movie "The Paper Chase" that deals with the subject: th-cam.com/video/yQLW7v3s7KQ/w-d-xo.html The idea is that your mind is like a muscle. If you exercise it in one way - you will strengthen it in that way. If you exercise it in another - you will strengthen it in THAT way. Here - the Law School - is training brains to be Lawyers. Another, depending on the major, might train your brain to be a Historian or a Mathematician or an Artist. This is why you won't be expected to remember everything you were taught in college - because what you really got out of it - was training your brain in some particular discipline. That is the reason that University Degrees are different than Trade School Degrees. The University is training you for a higher level of thinking in the profession - whereas the Trade School is training you to be a coder. That is why some employers prefer people with Trade School Degrees. They don't need people to design projects - they've already got all of those they need - what they want is people to turn these designs into full fledged functioning programs. If those people never rise above being a coder - they don't care - they hire and fire coders all the time as contracts come and go. Another factor in that is that they can hire people right out of trade school for less money than someone with a University Degree. When they bid on the contract - they got it because they were the _low bidder_ and now - having gotten the contract - they need to try and make money off of it. So - they hire the cheapest help they can get ... If that causes problems down the road - the important thing to them is - that they got the contract - so they are making money. What happens down the road they'll deal with later. Getting the contract is what mattered most. This is one of innumerable reasons projects foul up. .
Yes... "you learn the law, I train your mind". I have both a BS and MS in Computer Science and I find this to be true. Learning the language and theory is akin to getting your toolbox. It's the repeated practice and application of creativity in how you are going to use those tools to solve problems that the difficulty comes in, and also the real value.
i just started university in jan for software engineering. I'm completely NOOB like literal absolutely know NOTHING about coding or software. It started out easy to grasp and it has slowly gotten progressively more challenging . I've had a ton of fun learning the new concepts and understanding how incredibly awesome it is that we can even design instructions for a computer to create virtually anything you want. i personally love really challenging subjects and tasks. i took calc2 as well as discrete math consecutively with 2 cse classes and i must say it was pretty difficult and time consuming. just be prepared and find excitement in learning and you will succeed :)
Hmm .... the highest non-CS specific math I had to take was Linear Algebra. So, everything up to Calc 2 then Linear. Oh and I guess statistics. The only CS-specific math I took was Discrete Structures. So, it's really not much more math than any other science or engineering-type field.
DISAGREE on two of the reasons you mentioned. The ONE and ONLY way to succeed in Computer Science is to have TRUE interest in the field. People do not drop because of no going through pre introduction class for logic. Many math majors drop as well. People would rarely drop because its seem to be a waste of time as they know the obvious fact, that most major tech companies wouldn't even look at someone without a Bachelor's degree at least! So that's it. You HAVE to love it.
In my opinion CS program demands for study more like quadruple "High-School" than a university. The curriculum does overwhelming in every manner and it even causes panic attacks with the students. The program is definitely not for only the nerds but nerd² without any social life😄
I guess because I need to master a programming language first to be able to survive this course even though my teacher doesn't teach us anything, just came to ask us have we learned anything yet? while paying them with tuition fees? 😑🤔 Well, if I can do it on my own, why should I still go to University then? Fortunately, I got a scholarship and I wanted to learn (even on my own), so I will still try to continue this course and who knows if I can survive this 😞
Yea I've felt like that as well studying CS and sure we're not alone. TBH, it's good to become a person who can learn things by themselves and as you get into the field, you'll have to continually learn in order to keep up with technology. I believe in you. If you keep it up, can definitely graduate and get into the field but you could always consider a coding BootCamp too. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck! ps, if you have any other questions feel free to ask! I've been in your place before and I understand the struggle.
I'm a first year and I'm (imo) awesome at programming (been coding since middle school). The math, however, is humbling... Not failing or dropping out, but math is still the worst part of this degree for me.
Some people can do math but don't understand programming, but thats not as common as people who struggle with math. CS is really logical, mathematical and theoretical. Depending on the college/uni i guess.
I agree completely, but programming can be learned. I think people just don't stick with it long enough to wrap their heads around programming concepts.
I tell my kids to learn programming on their own. Since the Internet it should even be easier than in my day (70s). Read other people's code for style. To pick the right major, you have to live it.
It's all about perspective imho. Comp sci is hard but you know what's more challenging? Finding a job. Supporting a family. Paying your bills. If you have a bad attitude going into comp sci, then you're going to quit. However, if you have a realistic viewpoint of your skill level and you have determination, you can get through it. Personally, I find the work fascinating and each time I go back, I discover a new way of solving ("viewing"?) the same problem.
You can pay the bills with IT or accounting. I think more people can learn comp sci then then we give themselves credit but the time required versus being able to provide makes other majors a more reasonable choice
@@sp123 Very true. Not only that, you can learn anything and you don't need a degree. It blows my mind how people think that if one has a degree, then they are, somehow, intelligent. I've ran into lots of students who go to Michigan or Stanford but are complete morons.
Hi I really need someone's advice, I'm a first year CS and i failed calculus 1 and I'm actually thinking I'm failing it again this course , I'm scared to keep failing , scared that CS is hard for me so I'm thinking of changing my major to marketing! The problem is i love coding i got B+ in my first class of cs c++
Hey Aisha! I struggled with calculus too and I barely passed it. It’s totally up to you which route you take. If you’re struggling with calculus it may be because your math foundation is shallow. That was the case with me so I had to do a lot of studying to rebuild my foundation and then learn calculus. I also used a udemy course to help with krista king. However you could get a degree in marketing and still get a job coding. If you remain in CS, I recommend you check out Krista Kong’s courses. If you switch to marketing I recommend you hop on teamtreehouse.com. I’ve tried various coding platforms and that one is by far the best. There’s also a link in the description for it. Good luck with everything, you’re going to do great things!
Fear of failure should not make you change your mind. You can hang on and double your efforts. Nobody was born knowing these concepts that are offered in school or university. What makes the difference is the amount of time you put in your studies. You could be failing because you don’t read enough but the moment you start managing your time and having the right mindset, that’ll be a game changer.
The only thing that will make you fail is if you stop trying. If you have to take a prep course for calculus 1, then go back and take that, then take calculus 1 again. I had to re-take one course 2 more times. I just didn't give up and stayed the course. The only thing that matters is how badly you want it. Just keep trying and don't be too hard on yourself.
I am now confused, should i take bscs or bsit ? I am not really good at logic, and I somehow hate some science subject especially physics also math it's kinda tough tho
computer science is supposed to be a "science" major while computer engineering is "engineering". A lot of CS students plan to do "engineering" or "business" job, when they find out the nature of CS, they drop out.
Software is a set of instructions and program is a series of events you just need to be good at giving instructions to organise a series of events executed by machines to be good at computer science it's most of what you do but not the whole course
More like you need to be good at math to not fail at comp sci. There's a lot more to it than math, but Calculus and other high-level math courses are often overlooked by students entering the major.
I m 22 ,5years old I was biology student in college but now C's student I m bad at math but good at logic I believe I m good at programming , only bad thing I did not understand calculus 2 because I didn't. Try it in my life
Hey Anna. You usually don’t need any calculus after you graduate unless you a game designer. However, if you have to take calc 1, calc2 and calc 3, then you should understand calc 1 very well before moving on to calc 2 and so on because calc 2 uses everything you were supposed to have learned in calc 1. It’s like a learning pyramid with basic math at the bottom and advanced math at the top. As you’re learning, if there are holes in you’re knowledge pyramid, or if you don’t have a solid foundation, the pyramid will crumble. I hope that helps! Good luck with school!
I'm not totally sure, but this is the article I was referencing. www.computerweekly.com/news/252467745/Computer-science-undergraduates-most-likely-to-drop-out
@@CompSciCentral It says in that article that engineering and other technology degrees had third highest drop out rate at 7.2%, so I presume I.T. might fall into.
More than 95% of coding jobs do not use calculus but almost all coding jobs require some level of math. However, programming is essentially problem-solving and that's exactly what you learn in Calculus so it's beneficial in ways that don't directly translate, such as general problem-solving ability. Not to mention, if you happen to develop physics engines or almost anything else related to game development, you'll be glad you already know Calculus.
Don't let me scare you away! It was hard at first but I graduate next semester and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. You can do it, I believe in you!
macgyver here ... i'm wanted by the popo ... got baby mama's from paris to britney ... got my own rap studio ... i used soviet spy techniques to study american software companies .. and once I've stolen all the blue prints ... i now work as a silicon valley engineer ..
Computer science isn't hard. Teaching computer science to people who have never been exposed to it is extremely hard. The other reason it's hard is because no one wants to teach it, because they can make so much more money applying their knowledge. There is almost no math involved in associates level CS courses, it's just the sheer amount of work that is dumped on new students. This gatekeeping style of teaching is what makes people drop the CS path. The people that teach CS all have the same thing in common, bitterness towards teaching others and not willing to let their students stand on the shoulders of giants. Basically, CS teachers have ego problems, more than most teachers already have.
Public high school is useless in teaching the math required for computer science . Most adults out of high school struggle with algebra 1 so of course they can't do calc 1 and 2
I think there are 3 main reasons: 1- People want to learn practical skills like programming, hacking, anything they will use in their job after graduating, but universities are TERRIBLE in teaching practical skills. People realize they are not learning anything useful and don't want to waste any more time. 2- You can learn all the material online for free. Actually education online is most likely much better than education at your university, unless you are going to MIT or Harvard. 3- There are so many unrelated classes in a CS degree, like physics, General Electives, very technical classes about computers or some Electronics Engineering classes, it's complete waste of time
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For math and compsci, the knowledge you gain builds on top of itself. So the more you know the easier it becomes. Conversely the less you know the harder it is. People usually don’t like doing things they don’t like and if you don’t do a lot of math it’s just very difficult. Anyone can get good at math if they put in the time and effort and believe in yourself.
I completely agree. You have to practice and it’s easier to practice if you find enjoyment. There’s a saying that “C’s get degrees” and that is true but if you move onto more advanced subjects without mastering the basics, you’ll quickly fall behind.
Math just doesn't solve our problems
so compsci degree is mostly math than programming right
@@ninjapirate123 Depends on the program. Some are more math-centric than others. The school I went to the CS dept was under the math dept so there was a lot of math and more of an emphasis on formal models. Most of which you needed for one purpose only - to pass the final ;)
The reason Calculus is so hard is that you need to have a firm grasp on ALL highschool math. You need to know factoring, graphing, logs, trig, radicals, exponitals, algebra (ALOT OF ALGEBRA). Every problem you do will require at least one of these concepts. On top of that, you're learning all the new concepts like limits, derivities, integrals, and all their applications. So if you don't have a firm grasp of these concepts, you'll find yourself struggling before you even get to the calculus part of the problem. A lot of the times calculus can't be done until you manipulate the equation so that it satisfies a certain rule that can be done. And you have to be good enough at it that you know what direction to go. You can easily find yourself going down a path to solve a problem and you look at the answer and it's completely wrong.
This was me 😭
Did you drop out or still in this major?
@@winger9229 In second year now
Oh nice but this degree and struggle will definitely pay off. I only did pre calculus but calculus seems hard.
My high school math teacher didn’t do the job and most of my former classmates end up failing or dropping out
I think the lack of hand-holding contributes to this greatly. For example, in the calculus series, I always knew what I should know because the professor would tell me. The concepts that were explored in class, were the same concepts re-explored in homework and on tests. And the problems we solved in class were expressed as those which had a one-trick solution. So, there was a clear connection between lecture & practice. But in CS courses, I think the connection is less clear. I've had many courses where the lecture is pure theory and the assignments are application. Many times, the assignments explore new concepts/problems/tools that were not taught in class at all. And so, the student has to bridge that gap on their own. This can be a pain-staking process for people expecting that they would be shown what to do in any case. In addition to this, the kinds of problems cs tackles are those which do not always have one-trick solutions, there are many ways to write an algorithm which solves some particular problem. And so, there is creativity there as well, which makes it to where there is less of standardized roadmap for a student to follow to achieve the expected result. These in combination I think work against new students entering the major because it's not visible until you're in the program and doing the work. And so, when students realize that instead of being shown how to be a hacker, developer, programmer, problem solver, etc. they have to do it on their own time, they realize their expectations do not align with CS and drop out.
Tbf, programming in the real world you have to look up for either a library or algorithm from stack overflow or come up on your own or use a general resource
There’s no guideboook to tell you which algorithm is optimal and why etc
Most if not all Computer science students will go through Calculus and and some sort of Discrete Mathematics. These topics are really hard for first year students because most K-12 schools don't require you to have little to none background on Logic instead they come to college and go through the first course in coding thinking "coding is pretty easy" and comes 2nd semester they all are wanting to drop/switch majors because the workload is too intense.
I dropped from a CS major to a CS minor. I had a lot of fun writing my own programs, had all A in my projects and homeworks, I also went to a T20 school in the US for CS. My problem started when I realized I was a really bad test taker, and couldn't pass Algo. If all my classes only graded me on my programming skills I would be an A+ student, but being a nervous test takers, and not being able to critically thinking out of my way fast enough really made me feel depressed. The fact that I would ace 50% of projects and then fail 50% of the tests to get a passing C in my classes destroyed my self confidence. It made my doubt myself, with the addition that I was risking losing my scholarship I just couldn't deal with the pressure anymore. I still haven't give up yet tho. Just because one way doesn't work for me doesn't mean the entire path is closed for me. Just need to do more leetcode, more algo practice and more projects.
I feel like part of why is how colleges teach programming, they try to teach too many different languages. In my community college and my first year of university I had to learn C++, C#, Java, visual basic, and assembly, and in pretty much every class I feel like I never really learned the language it felt like it was just enough to pass the class but not enough experience to actually use them outside of school.
Usual schools pick one and stick with it
C and C++ are common for memory management
However, Java and python are predating they are industry standard
Nevertheless, some languages are tied to their purposes
Eg python can compete with R for data analysis
But game designs are in c# or c++
All of these make it completely to make it uniform language
I’m doing an Associates in CS and I haven’t taken any programming courses yet and I’m already finding it difficult 🤦🏽♂️🙁
Yea man, it can be tough but it's incredibly rewarding. You just have to ask yourself if it's something you really want to do and if it is, I'm sure you can make it happen. I have faith in you!
The bottom line that people don't see until they start taking class in CS is that it's hard! CS and programming is romanticized to the public for example we all are told that you can make so much money like $600,000 a year which may be true but what's left out is that it takes a lot of work and studying to get to that point. Nothing that in life gives a big reward with out work and struggles. If it wasn't hard everyone would be doing it.
im about to graduate with my BA in economics with a minor in business and i will like to give my two cents on this. i enjoy the concepts of compci (i'm currently taking some compsci electives such as algorithm design and analysis) and i'm learning how to program using javascript, python, R and SQL, (for data analysis) but i think also part of the reason compsci has a high drop out rate is the perceived return of investment after getting the degree. the job market for software engineers is crazy right now as people are getting laid off. i feel like a great mix of compsci and a somewhat understanding of microeconomic theory (how firms and businesses work) can make a solid compsci degree absolutely worth it!
my advice, don't just get the compsci degree because everyone else is doing it. figure out a solid plan with the degree, learn the costs and benefits of choosing the degree (pros vs cons) and then earn that high paying job that can land you a decent living space. i'm from california, and living conditions here are way expensive than it should be!
I like your idea
I would say some people just cannot code. Coding skill requires a certain amount of talent, just like mastering a music instrument.
I have friends in EE , ME, or MATH major who are terrific at Math and logics, but cannot out figure how to pass an entry level programming class.
I agree that some are simply not suited to coding but I think that speaks more to people's personalities. If you can solve problems, it's very likely that you'll be good at programming.
@@CompSciCentral for me programming is still different to maths. I am good at math (tho' I suck at some math subjects like Trigonometry but they're much fewer than those I'm good at) but I suck a lot at programming.
Here are the reasons why I suck at programming:
1.) Programming is a new concept to me. I- or rather, we, have been studying mathematics since we were kids. I'm the type of person who when encountered with an entirely new concept, I will struggle a lot.
2.) Math is simply following the formula and that's it. Meanwhile in programming, you have to think of ways on how to make it work which requires lots of complicated thinking. I love problem solving but it doesn't mean that I will automatically be good at programming which requires problem solving skills.
3.) This will definitely sound ridiculous. But Programming for me kinda made my mind too aphantasiac. Because I always have to think of codes 24/7. I am an aspiring visual artist. And ever since I became too immersed in programming, it feels like my visual imagination went down by a lot. At least in engineering like civil and mechanical, I have to visualize the product that I will do while being good at math. I can relate math to art by a lot. But programming, not really. So after this pandemic, I plan to get back to studying in college in civil or mechanical engineering.
I think they would be able to pass the entry level programming class if they worked harder, I am a second year I.T. student and boy was I shocked at how hard I found my entry level programming unit, I think I managed to get 60 percent with a lot of frustration and stress. I remember the students first year hounding the lectures, "This is bs, I'm going to switch to engineering, this is way too much for a first year unit". Admittedly, there were some students who were only 18 me being 27 who just picked it up and got HD's who had never coded before either. I still suck at coding but I am way better than when I first started out after doing it for two years. So, students should just keep at it and maybe structure their degree to have other options open, I agree with what was said in this video. That there is no class that you would have likely taken that prepares you for programming. You go into a maths degree, well that builds off maths you learnt at school. Just get over that hurdle first year and it will become more straight forward. Everything is hard until it is easy!
@@akizaizayoi4763 I love that you can relate math to art, because I literally can't see it at all the similarities
@@psychedelictacos9118 thanks for being so positive
9.8% really seems low to me. What I experienced was around 20%-25% at an average state school.
At more prestige CS schools like UCLA or USC, it is around 5% as students are much more devoted to study.
Oh my gosh that's so high! But I'm sure you're right, it varies from school to school and the school certainly plays a factor.
My department has an 80% drop rate
Some are 30, 50, 20, 10, etc. It averages out to 10%.
I went back to school at my local community college in the fall of 2017 after graduating high school in 2012. I wanted to do CS at first but realized there was a lot of math which intimidated me. So, I decided to do an IT associates degree that only made me take College Algebra, thinking that if I wanted to be a software developer, I could just move up. LOL. I took an intro to programming class in Java during my second semester and I really liked it.
Then my third semester in spring 2019, I realized how my IT major was completely useless, my core classes were not teaching me anything and I felt like I was wasting my time. So, I decided to switch my major to CS. That summer I took Pre-Calc in 6 weeks and after not doing math for about 1.5 years, I struggled badly. Then Calc 1 wrecked me along with an 9AM intro chem class. That was such a brutal semester because I was only sleeping 4 hours a day while attending school fulltime and working 20-25 hours.
Just now, as I am writing this, it is finals week at my first semester at my local 4 year university as a CS major. I decided to retake CompSci II because the last time I programmed was in the spring of 2019. Since 2019 up until January of 2021, I have only done Math courses and Chemistry courses.
Writing this comment made me realize how I've fucked myself by not sticking to my original goal all the way back to early 2017 when I was thinking of going back to school. I guess the lesson that I have for anyone reading this comment, is to have a conversation with yourself and know that you have to work hard if you want to do a Computer Science degree. If you are not willing to change your work habits to succeed then do not enter. I've had to work 20-25 hours while taking some really hard classes and at times only sleeping 2 hours. I still have a long way to go, but damn I cannot wait until I finally graduate.
Thanks for sharing, I recently enrolled back into college with my mind set up for this cs degree. The only problem that messes with me is that every thing is still in this remote learning crap. Calculus is high level and TH-cam can only do so much. I guess hope for the best
Wow, way to go! You're going to have a bright future ahead of you with that work ethic! Thanks for sharing.
I agree with the other two replies, and of course, thanks for sharing! While deciding to finally work hard is important, I think what messes people up the most is the surprise we feel after taking the CS degree and learning how much harder the calculus and physics here is than it was in high school, especially if we never had any seniors to consult with before taking the degree.
I guess that's why we're lucky its the age of the internet XD still wish I asked someone before getting myself into this
@@kfreedom470 Professor Leonard on TH-cam got me through Calc 1 and 2. Search him up. He is the best.
My CSII teacher said this "Computer science is a science. In your intro classes you are learning a lot of the basic applications you can do, after this class is over you can be a basic code-monkey for many jobs out there, but you don't really understand it, you are going through the motions. You can look at a formula in math and put it in a calculator, but don't really know why it got the answer. The future classes are more theoretical, you delve into the science part of computer science, not just the computer programming."
That isn't an exact quote, paraphrased. But he really pointed out how most people who start computer science don't really realize it is a "science" at first. They may have taken the intro classes or a class in highschool where they learned programming techniques and realize that developing really simple things is well, simple. When you go into physics, you know it is a science, you know it is going to use math and logic to some degree. Same for biology, chemistry, and even engineering. But most people don't see computer science that way at first. They don't realize how theoretical and how logic and math based it gets until they're already a few courses into their major. I know a good majority of CS majors at my school complained about how the CS major was too "theoretical" and how they really like the applied stuff but hated the theoretical stuff and just pushed through it to get to the more interesting things
My boss (I am a research assistant at my uni) said that next semester the school is thinking about adding another major option called "Applied Programming" or something like that for all the people who love the application stuff but don't care for the theory. So while "computer science" will have classes like data structures, operating systems, discrete math (logic math), etc, applied programming would have things like web-development, game design, mobile development, etc
Of course you would be able to take electives in each other's degrees, but the emphasis would be on theoretical vs application, which I think is cool, but could also be counter productive. I don't know the details of the applied programming degree yet, but if they don't take things like calculus, linear algebra, statistics, and data structures, how would they take a machine learning course? That is the most popular CS elective at my school lol, I know there is demand for it, but you do need a ton of the theory to actually understand how to do it, so we'll see how that goes. I am gonna stick to computer science lol
its a high drop rate cause people go in it for the money not really having a passion for it, cause if you have a passion for computer science, dont even gotta study, your gonna pass that shit with ez
dont call me out pls
Also
Just use common sense
If you've used basic math
Just use common sense
I found python ,c++ etc very difficult
But SQL r etc r easy
Some languages r easier for some people
I dropped out, because of the math, I never took that kind of math in highschool...
I never tookk that kind of math before college either. If you still have any interest in development, check out teamtreehouse.com. I'm learning web development there and it's by far the best learning platform I've ever used. And they don't make you learn anything that you won't actually use, like Calculus lol. Have a great day!
For me, I wished my intro college classes took more time demonstrating on how to actually program instead of going over syntax…
1) it is hard because of the math. It really is a discrete math degree with some coding added in. 2) programming in CS is not fun Python, it is horrible C/C++. People who maybe have Python exposure will get a rude awakening when they have to write C code inside the Linux kernel and it involves pointers to pointers and the kernel needs to be recompiled every time you change something or C++ code to effect a red-black tree rebalance. You are NOT creating fun apps, and if you are interested in the front end, forget it, you are never going to touch JS, CSS, HTML in a CS degree program. And if you do not live on the command line CS schooling is also going to be uncomfortable. The people I saw be successful in CS had no issues with math whatsoever, and already knew how to code when they started. Everyone else, it is a struggle.
That is exactly right, thank you for the comment. I had very little programming knowledge when I started and the math bit was difficult. Discrete isn't too bad but the various Calculus classes almost killed me.
@@CompSciCentral Up until a couple of years ago my school required Differential Equations for a CS undergrad degree. You might recall some exposure to Diff EQ in Calc II. That is straight up scary math.
@@MSneberger It really is. The previous school I attended also required Calc 3: Multivariable calculus because it was an engineering school. I left there after calc 2 and the University I'm finishing my degree at only requires Calc 1 so I never had to go that far, thankfully.
I took my CS classes in the 70s. I'm a little surprised schools are requiring so much math. In my career I haven't had to use much math. It's pretty much all logic and problem solving. I can't remember any of the calculus I once did, mainly because I've never used it. Mostly it's been trig when I needed math at all beyond the basics. Most of my programming in the early days was in assembler. Today I mostly do C and I like the language a lot. I like Python for quick and dirty stuff -- mostly utilities, tools, experimentation and testing.
@@donjindra That's really comforting because I'm terrible with advanced Calculus lol. Logic and problem solving are right up my alley though. Thanks for commenting, Don, I hope you have a great Easter!
My school had a 54% drop out rate in comsci, higher than any other major at the school. I dropped out, went to community college and am now back in uni (different school) to get the comsci degree. I should graduate a semester or two late. The reason I droped it goes deeper than hard classes or weeder courses. I actually did okay in clac 2 and other weeder classes, but it was so bloody toxic. Seeing friends fail over something that was absolute bs, vague requirements on assignments and politics within the faculty are a major reason why I left. Had some really good profs in my first school but overall it was a bad experience. I find that schools that place the CS with the Science faculty over the Engineering faculty makes a big difference as well (with science being better imo).
I actually had a similar experience. I didn't drop out but I had to switch schools. Sorry you had a bad experience but if it makes you feel better, I hear a lot of horror stories in CS but after you graduate, it's all worth it! Good luck, James!
That amount of people that dropped after the first year of the associates degree was about 50%. I'm currently in the BAS program at my school and people tell me I'm smartest person in the program and I'm like lol I copy and paste stuff from online and change it up and repurposed as my own... I've been programming since I was 14 and I love computers, you need to have passion and not get too lazy. Currently have a 4.0 GPA for my BAS, Stats was pretty easy.
Nice! That's what I'm talking about. But yea I agree, you have to really want it. Good luck with the rest of your degree!
That's kinda crazy it's such a high drop rate mainly because of the math involved. I've always been really good at math and even got my math minor along side my CS degree. I didn't realize it could be such a turn off for people.
I thought I was good at math until I took Calculus lol. That's cool that you minored in math though, I think that's a great idea. Especially considering we already take so much math with out CS degree.
Just graduated with CS from Auburn University!!!!!
That’s so awesome!!! Congrats, and good luck with your career moving forward!! I still have one semester to go so I’m right behind ya 😁
@@CompSciCentral You’ll get it in no time!!!
One factor in this is that you may not actually need a degree to get a job - or - a "degree" from a trade school is actually regarded more highly by some employers as it concentrates more on practical application (coding) than theory.
Here, Computer Science - is often not what your degree is in - as Computer Science is part of the Math Department - so you degree is really in Math.
Also, it could be that you have a lot of people who like using computers to play games on and surf the web - and think that this has any bearing what so ever on getting a Computer Science degree.
Of course - this is all over and above the fact that it there are a number of people who change majors in college. They start off Undeclared and dabble in a bunch of things trying to figure out what they want to do. They might think they like something and declare that their major but then subsequently change to something else. One factor in that - could be the realization that what they were majoring in won't help them get a job.
Expecting someone just out of High School to be able to accurately plan the rest of their life may be a bit much.
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Agreed. Getting a degree is not the only path and for some, self-study or bootcamps are a better route.
@@CompSciCentral Here though - one thing should be mentioned - in that for some employers - that 4 year University Degree - makes a lot of difference in what you will be paid ...
Thus - while the guy with a degree or certification from a trade school may well not have a hard time finding work ... his advancement ... might be limited.
I have a friend ... who (iirc) kind of got kicked out of college ... because he sort of stopped going. The _reason_ he stopped going - was because he was working for a small company that was building an industry dominating medical device wherein his electrical engineering work on it's circuit boards and assembly language programming of it's software were a very important part. They beat the pants off the big company's machine so ... in the tradition of "if you can't beat them - buy them" the big company bought them out and made them all rich. Then he got married and his wife spent all his money ...
The problem here ... is that ... that was 40 years ago ... and now ... when he goes looking for work ... he doesn't have that University Degree ...
That and ... he's 40 years older ... and he can't live in his office, sleep on a cot, with a small fridge and a microwave ... and have a desk drawer full of chocolate ... going home once a week to change clothes ... then come back to the office ...
One of the advantages of working for larger organizations ... is that often times - they have on site showers ...
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Cs is as braindead as most subjects
The issue is that when you don't understand something you are immediately pubished and other subjects you can kind of get away with not truly understanding
Like most math subjects if you didn't learn the previous thing well it will haunt you in the next but if you did the next thing is easy
I agree with both points
Just giving my two thoughts as I started university in a Scandinavia university this fall.
I've studied economics before CS and I have to say the biggest challenge so far for me is to understand the professors. Half of the assignment is understanding the assignment , ie half the time you sit there thinking "what the hell are they trying to say?" As compared to economics where half the time you think "why the hell do they say that?"
I think the professors are a huge reason I disliked it as well! You can know a lot but still struggle bc your teacher is bad at communicating, and in our uni I could tell most teachers were just straight A students who got degrees, not 'teachers'
I am going to pass my CS Undergrad in June'22. And believe me what my expectation were getting into CompSci vs what I learned and got from the course are completely different.
You go in thinking you will learn new technology which is partly true but courses like comp arch, automata theory, algo design, compilers, etc f***ing destroy you.
So true lol. good luck with your last few semesters! You're almost there!
I looked at the degree plan and I did see it requires Calculus and a lot of Science classes even Physics. I have the idea I would not wanna major in it I'm sure that I don't wanna do a lot of math or Physics at least I finished College Algebra.
Yea Comp Sci is challenging as it is but the classes that accompany Comp Sci are equally if not more challenging.
There is little math in a typical work day for a CS professional. Algebra, linear algebra...that's really it. I do think you should take calculus, but in my decades of career? Barely. Any. Calculus.
Most make the mistake of choosing a BS instead of a BCSA. A Bachelor of Computer Science and Arts is still a valid computer science degree and will teach you most of the modern popular concepts of computer programming with only like 1-2 math courses. Just a tip, anytime you choose a BS (Bachelor of Science) - it's similiar to saying "I passionately love math with all my heart".
So before you drop out, consider switching to a BCSA instead, most colleges offer an Arts alternative of CS...it's much easier when considering the math required.
I kinda scared and worried cuz I’m in CS 🤦🏽♂️😢
Just saw this amazing figure today: in the description of an ASU CS masters thesis by Akshay Kumar Dileep I see this statement: "Calculus has high failure rates which corroborates with the data collected from Arizona State University that shows that 40% of the 3266 students whose data were used failed in their calculus course." Ouch! Points to math being a reason people drop CS.
Exactly! Calculus is tough. You need drive, focus, and a lot of hours to succeed in it. Thanks for your input.
But Calculus is not required of a CS professional. It's good to know and be familiar with, but never shows up in real life. (Ok, once in a blue moon.)
The university I went to banked on the dropout rate. They ran the freshmen through a few courses with high lab fees that were taught by TA's so they were low expense classes and pocketed the surplus for use in the higher level courses once the students had been whittled down to the ones that were serious. Not that the school wanted students to fail, but they weren't going to hold their hand all the way through the program either.
I subscribed and gave 10 thumbs up; you had some interesting points to share.
Thanks William, I appreciate it!
I'll be 40 next month and I'll have a CompSci degree this fall. I never found anything too difficult in my going back to school. Though my school and program had a lot of math (Calc I-III and Discrete Mathmatics) I had no idea that this degree program had one of the highest drop out rates. I loved my Data Structures class (taught in C++) and really disliked Python. Go figure.
That's awesome! Congrats! I just finished my last semester and started my first job as a Junior Web Developer a few days ago. I can't wait for you to finish... It's so gratifying!
Good luck with your last semester and with your career after school!
-Tim (Comp Sci Central)
I just started on this path at 27, and I believe it’s because in your teens, you’re just not mature yet to be able to handle the studying and sacrifices.
At 27, I will study all weekend and not feel like I’m missing out (the weekends are actually when I do most of my learning), but if I was 18, forget about it
@@High_Rate136 Agreed. When I was 18 or 19, I wasn't mature enough to sit down and just study. I wanted to play games and live life. Well, now I'm 32 and here I am, trying to grind hard to learn how to program.
9.8%? That’s low. In Germany 50% don‘t finish their CS degree...
Seriously? What's the reason for this? Do other majors have similarly high drop rates there?
@@CompSciCentral In Germany study fields in high demand like medicine, psychology just accept the students with the best high school degree. Despite the economy searching heavily for worker with an IT degree, everyone is accepted for a computer science university program. So having a very good job perspective and not having a good high school degree works out. Plus, studying in Germany is free, so many think „why don’t give it a shot?“. They expect some programming, some building and maintaining a computer, but nothing like math or theoretical informatics. I’m studying at a private university with a scholarship, were the bars are high to get in, but in a „normal“ computer science university program, you‘ll basically start with 120 students and graduate with a handful of students. In the first two semesters you have dropout rates of almost 60% at some universities, students get frustrated and fail purposely hard exams in basic computer science courses or spend double or triple of the regular time at the university, trying to rewrite and rewrite failed exams. I’m glad I don’t study in this situation, I‘d feel very uncomfortable knowing that most of the people I start studying with will eventually drop out. The atmosphere wouldn’t be nice at all... While public universities aren’t bad, this situation just frustrate a lot of students, they spend time on a degree they won‘t probably get and just aren’t able to study and who would be way happier doing something else; because although computer science is in demand, I don’t think it‘s right to push everyone in that industry when their abilities are somewhere else...
@@simonkraemer3725 i am graduating from high school this year and i want to study cs in germany. this made me sad
In the US the college admission into a CS major is typically competitive and students that are admitted already passed some criteria on minimum required grades and test scores. Therefore the dropout rate is relatively lower. In Germany CS is pretty much open admission and the academically weaker students drop out after failing the first year of exams and change majors. The advantage of the German system is that more students gets a shot at trying to make it without all the college admission drama.
I bet that Calc II contributes a surprising amount to that 9.8% drop rate.
Do you have to remember every single thing you was taught throughout your college career in computer science on the job or is it normal to forget some stuff?
It's totally normal to forget stuff. Employers mostly want to know that you're a good problem-solver. They especially want you to solve the types of problems that their business is facing. I going to cover career advice on this channel so feel free to subscribe if you want to be notified of that content in the future. Take care. -Tim
yeah, I bet senior engineers at Google won't remember how a red black tree exactly works either. In fact, you will learn a lot from your job
I forget stuff all the time. Just google
As long as you know how to code or have some experience in coding, then it's ok to forget some stuff when you're working as a software developer
I'm gonna be honest, I was a computer science student for my first year of college and after that I changed my major and moving on to something else coding was too hard and confusing for me.
It’s not for everyone and that’s okay! I’m sure you’re going to be a master of whatever you decide to pursue.
@@CompSciCentral Thank you I appreciate it
@@andrewthomas4941 did you switch to a business degree or which one did you pick?
@@teknul89 Music major
@@andrewthomas4941 cool thanks for the reply
Starting in preschool kids need to start learning computer science. Robotic Engineering will be the last jobs to exist.
At the very least they should be learning logic and logical thinking which will set them up to not only understand programming concepts but also help them become productive and independent thinkers.
First year CS student here! I remember a senior of mine jokingly say that the CS major is just a maths minor in disguise, and after failing my first calculus class, I'm kind of scared for the future.
I'm one of those COMPLETE beginners just fascinated with what the work behind my favourite games and sites were, and despite the isolation I felt when I realised almost everyone in my intro course were already experienced and/or good at maths, I still did well despite this very new subject!....until my first math course (calculus). Right now I guess I just want to know if I'll be okay, and if someone who barely passed math in high school can still last in a CS program.
Hey I'm sorry for the late reply but let me just tell you, I felt the exact same way! I started my degree at 25yo and all the 17/18yo's seemed like they knew so much compared. My math was so bad I had to take several math classes before I was even able to take Calculus. Now I'm almost finished with my degree and I've learned so much through all the struggles and I've also grown a lot as a person. Studying CS was the one of the best decisions I ever made. Do I think it's for everyone? No. But that's up to you to figure out. Personally, I believe you can do it :D
@@CompSciCentral Hey thanks for the reply, I almost forgot I posted a depressing comment like this on the internet XD
I'm 23, so the experienced 17/18y.olds are very intimidating to me as well but I didn't name their ages or mine out of embarrassment, thank you so much for mentioning that! I'm glad you got through those tough times and made it this far, it gives me hope for myself since I'm still very interested in this field and have no idea what else I'd be pursuing.
I hope you'll keep posting helpful videos like this for CS and CE students, you have no idea how these make some of us feel less lonely in situations where students couldn't want less to do with each other. It can be pretty cutthroat.
@@PichuElric I totally get it man. A lot of people experience some level of isolation in CS/CE and probably other degrees tbh. But yea that's really why I started this channel as well as my blog compscicentral.com because I don't think the experience should be like that. And I'll definitely make some more videos soon, i've been slacking! lol. Feel free to reach out anytime tho. Good luck!
I withdrew from mscs a than took Java at junior college failed. I’m willing to give CS another try, worried about age discrimination.
EZ:
Expectation: Coding
Reality: Maths
compsci and engineering are harder in fluid intelligence required as well as work put in than other majors at the same university, so if its too hard people switch out
also it has higher starting salaries, so people after money and not following their interests enter it and people doing this drop out
also it is the main work, people want to be the main driver and not support services of society, so people choosing for this reason may choose engineering and drop out because it doesnt fit their real interests
also some people who are just nerdy may end up there because they think it fits their personality but again not their dreams or interests
thats just my 2 cents
It's amusing that the calc required for majors like Comp-Sci are actually very nearly nearly never used in comp-sci.
Calc, for instance, can be useful in physics simulations but that's not comp-sci, that's physics or engineering.
Maybe linear algebra might be used in parts of discrete math (often a weed-out course for comp-sci) like in hashing or more typically in crypto.
Heck, the only computer topic where calc is really useful/necessary would be stuff like machine-learning.
Generally, calc won't be used IN comp-sci, and rather nearly never post graduation in your career either.
Hello sir, i a an international medical student. But i think i should have studied cs in America. I am depressed thinking that without a cs knowledge, i am leaving an opportunity to be the next Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg.
What should i do?
You should do what's best for you, but only you can know what that is and only you can make that decision. I'm sorry for the situation that you're in and I'm sorry that I can't help you make your decision but I'm confident you'll make the choice that's best for you. Take care :D
Awesome!
Thanks for watching! (and editing lol)
People are lured by the promise of getting a high-paying job. The ones with no aptitude soon quit.
Because most student just thought the high paying salary but no interest in CS concept theory. And social media hype lead to everyone wanting to major CS, and end up dropping out.
This is a second post on a different aspect of education - that of training your mind. Here is a clip from the movie "The Paper Chase" that deals with the subject:
th-cam.com/video/yQLW7v3s7KQ/w-d-xo.html
The idea is that your mind is like a muscle. If you exercise it in one way - you will strengthen it in that way. If you exercise it in another - you will strengthen it in THAT way. Here - the Law School - is training brains to be Lawyers. Another, depending on the major, might train your brain to be a Historian or a Mathematician or an Artist. This is why you won't be expected to remember everything you were taught in college - because what you really got out of it - was training your brain in some particular discipline.
That is the reason that University Degrees are different than Trade School Degrees. The University is training you for a higher level of thinking in the profession - whereas the Trade School is training you to be a coder. That is why some employers prefer people with Trade School Degrees. They don't need people to design projects - they've already got all of those they need - what they want is people to turn these designs into full fledged functioning programs. If those people never rise above being a coder - they don't care - they hire and fire coders all the time as contracts come and go.
Another factor in that is that they can hire people right out of trade school for less money than someone with a University Degree. When they bid on the contract - they got it because they were the _low bidder_ and now - having gotten the contract - they need to try and make money off of it. So - they hire the cheapest help they can get ...
If that causes problems down the road - the important thing to them is - that they got the contract - so they are making money. What happens down the road they'll deal with later. Getting the contract is what mattered most. This is one of innumerable reasons projects foul up.
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Yes... "you learn the law, I train your mind". I have both a BS and MS in Computer Science and I find this to be true. Learning the language and theory is akin to getting your toolbox. It's the repeated practice and application of creativity in how you are going to use those tools to solve problems that the difficulty comes in, and also the real value.
he saying "mathematics is one of the reasons comp sciences is hard". I mean, maths are the easiest part of comp sciences, unfortunatelly :,(
Many people would disagree with that lol. But if advanced calculus is easy for you, then Comp Sci should be a breeze
i just started university in jan for software engineering. I'm completely NOOB like literal absolutely know NOTHING about coding or software. It started out easy to grasp and it has slowly gotten progressively more challenging . I've had a ton of fun learning the new concepts and understanding how incredibly awesome it is that we can even design instructions for a computer to create virtually anything you want. i personally love really challenging subjects and tasks. i took calc2 as well as discrete math consecutively with 2 cse classes and i must say it was pretty difficult and time consuming. just be prepared and find excitement in learning and you will succeed :)
Great choice majoring in Comp Sci/Software Engineering. It's challenging but so rewarding! Good luck!
Not everyone finds interest in same things
My college has one of the worst ccom department some of the class have even a 90% drop rate every year
Hmm .... the highest non-CS specific math I had to take was Linear Algebra. So, everything up to Calc 2 then Linear. Oh and I guess statistics. The only CS-specific math I took was Discrete Structures. So, it's really not much more math than any other science or engineering-type field.
I hate programming, but I love it, so I compare it to playing the game "Dark Souls"!
I stopped to robotic for me. Listening to lectures bored me to death but that's me. Definitely a good degree to pursue if it's your thing.
DISAGREE on two of the reasons you mentioned. The ONE and ONLY way to succeed in Computer Science is to have TRUE interest in the field. People do not drop because of no going through pre introduction class for logic. Many math majors drop as well. People would rarely drop because its seem to be a waste of time as they know the obvious fact, that most major tech companies wouldn't even look at someone without a Bachelor's degree at least! So that's it. You HAVE to love it.
In my opinion CS program demands for study more like quadruple "High-School" than a university. The curriculum does overwhelming in every manner and it even causes panic attacks with the students. The program is definitely not for only the nerds but nerd² without any social life😄
I guess because I need to master a programming language first to be able to survive this course even though my teacher doesn't teach us anything, just came to ask us have we learned anything yet? while paying them with tuition fees? 😑🤔 Well, if I can do it on my own, why should I still go to University then? Fortunately, I got a scholarship and I wanted to learn (even on my own), so I will still try to continue this course and who knows if I can survive this 😞
Yea I've felt like that as well studying CS and sure we're not alone. TBH, it's good to become a person who can learn things by themselves and as you get into the field, you'll have to continually learn in order to keep up with technology. I believe in you. If you keep it up, can definitely graduate and get into the field but you could always consider a coding BootCamp too. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck!
ps, if you have any other questions feel free to ask! I've been in your place before and I understand the struggle.
I'm a first year and I'm (imo) awesome at programming (been coding since middle school). The math, however, is humbling...
Not failing or dropping out, but math is still the worst part of this degree for me.
Some people can do math but don't understand programming, but thats not as common as people who struggle with math.
CS is really logical, mathematical and theoretical. Depending on the college/uni i guess.
I agree completely, but programming can be learned. I think people just don't stick with it long enough to wrap their heads around programming concepts.
Thats also true. Giving up too easily can be a possibility.
I tell my kids to learn programming on their own. Since the Internet it should even be easier than in my day (70s). Read other people's code for style. To pick the right major, you have to live it.
It's all about perspective imho. Comp sci is hard but you know what's more challenging? Finding a job. Supporting a family. Paying your bills.
If you have a bad attitude going into comp sci, then you're going to quit. However, if you have a realistic viewpoint of your skill level and you have determination, you can get through it. Personally, I find the work fascinating and each time I go back, I discover a new way of solving ("viewing"?) the same problem.
You can pay the bills with IT or accounting. I think more people can learn comp sci then then we give themselves credit but the time required versus being able to provide makes other majors a more reasonable choice
@@sp123 Very true. Not only that, you can learn anything and you don't need a degree. It blows my mind how people think that if one has a degree, then they are, somehow, intelligent.
I've ran into lots of students who go to Michigan or Stanford but are complete morons.
Hi I really need someone's advice, I'm a first year CS and i failed calculus 1 and I'm actually thinking I'm failing it again this course , I'm scared to keep failing , scared that CS is hard for me so I'm thinking of changing my major to marketing! The problem is i love coding i got B+ in my first class of cs c++
Hey Aisha! I struggled with calculus too and I barely passed it. It’s totally up to you which route you take. If you’re struggling with calculus it may be because your math foundation is shallow. That was the case with me so I had to do a lot of studying to rebuild my foundation and then learn calculus. I also used a udemy course to help with krista king. However you could get a degree in marketing and still get a job coding. If you remain in CS, I recommend you check out Krista Kong’s courses. If you switch to marketing I recommend you hop on teamtreehouse.com. I’ve tried various coding platforms and that one is by far the best. There’s also a link in the description for it. Good luck with everything, you’re going to do great things!
Fear of failure should not make you change your mind. You can hang on and double your efforts. Nobody was born knowing these concepts that are offered in school or university. What makes the difference is the amount of time you put in your studies. You could be failing because you don’t read enough but the moment you start managing your time and having the right mindset, that’ll be a game changer.
The only thing that will make you fail is if you stop trying. If you have to take a prep course for calculus 1, then go back and take that, then take calculus 1 again. I had to re-take one course 2 more times. I just didn't give up and stayed the course. The only thing that matters is how badly you want it. Just keep trying and don't be too hard on yourself.
I am now confused, should i take bscs or bsit ? I am not really good at logic, and I somehow hate some science subject especially physics also math it's kinda tough tho
It can be tough but I'm sure you can do it. Pick whichever major you're most interested in, because if you're interested, you will excel.
9.8? that's to good , in my country ( Romanian ) the drop rate is almost 35%
9.8% ? Electrical Engineering is pushing 50% dropout rate
i never did maths on my studies ¿what you talking about?
You got off easy! Most of us have to take at least basic level calculus and discrete math.
computer science is supposed to be a "science" major while computer engineering is "engineering". A lot of CS students plan to do "engineering" or "business" job, when they find out the nature of CS, they drop out.
Software is a set of instructions and program is a series of events you just need to be good at giving instructions to organise a series of events executed by machines to be good at computer science it's most of what you do but not the whole course
Isn't this statistic based on UK universities?
So I just need to be good at math in order to do well in compsci right
More like you need to be good at math to not fail at comp sci. There's a lot more to it than math, but Calculus and other high-level math courses are often overlooked by students entering the major.
I m 22 ,5years old I was biology student in college but now C's student I m bad at math but good at logic I believe I m good at programming , only bad thing I did not understand calculus 2 because I didn't. Try it in my life
Yea calculus 2 was tough for me too. Good luck with your studies!
0:10If you ask a teacher he will say humanities are as good as all degrees.
Opinions are important.
I'm scared now
Don't be scared, be excited. You got this!
How much calculus do you actually USE in computer science? Like if I barely pass will that be good enough or do I have to KNOW calculus front to back?
Hey Anna. You usually don’t need any calculus after you graduate unless you a game designer. However, if you have to take calc 1, calc2 and calc 3, then you should understand calc 1 very well before moving on to calc 2 and so on because calc 2 uses everything you were supposed to have learned in calc 1. It’s like a learning pyramid with basic math at the bottom and advanced math at the top. As you’re learning, if there are holes in you’re knowledge pyramid, or if you don’t have a solid foundation, the pyramid will crumble. I hope that helps! Good luck with school!
Why Is Computer Science the MOST POPULAR MAJOR？
Good question. Would you like me to make a video covering that?
@@CompSciCentral haha
Whats the drop out rate for other technology related degrees such as Information Technologoy, Software Engineering, Cyber Security etc??
I'm not totally sure, but this is the article I was referencing. www.computerweekly.com/news/252467745/Computer-science-undergraduates-most-likely-to-drop-out
@@CompSciCentral thanks
@@CompSciCentral It says in that article that engineering and other technology degrees had third highest drop out rate at 7.2%, so I presume I.T. might fall into.
Honestly do we really need Math?
More than 95% of coding jobs do not use calculus but almost all coding jobs require some level of math. However, programming is essentially problem-solving and that's exactly what you learn in Calculus so it's beneficial in ways that don't directly translate, such as general problem-solving ability. Not to mention, if you happen to develop physics engines or almost anything else related to game development, you'll be glad you already know Calculus.
*laughs in Biomedical Engineering*
this video in my tl:
me planning to pursue compsci: 😟
Don't let me scare you away! It was hard at first but I graduate next semester and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. You can do it, I believe in you!
macgyver here ... i'm wanted by the popo ... got baby mama's from paris to britney ... got my own rap studio ... i used soviet spy techniques to study american software companies .. and once I've stolen all the blue prints ... i now work as a silicon valley engineer ..
Cuz it's hard as fuk.
.
U godda lrn maf :)
lol
Computer science isn't hard. Teaching computer science to people who have never been exposed to it is extremely hard. The other reason it's hard is because no one wants to teach it, because they can make so much more money applying their knowledge. There is almost no math involved in associates level CS courses, it's just the sheer amount of work that is dumped on new students. This gatekeeping style of teaching is what makes people drop the CS path. The people that teach CS all have the same thing in common, bitterness towards teaching others and not willing to let their students stand on the shoulders of giants. Basically, CS teachers have ego problems, more than most teachers already have.
Public high school is useless in teaching the math required for computer science . Most adults out of high school struggle with algebra 1 so of course they can't do calc 1 and 2
I think there are 3 main reasons:
1- People want to learn practical skills like programming, hacking, anything they will use in their job after graduating, but universities are TERRIBLE in teaching practical skills. People realize they are not learning anything useful and don't want to waste any more time.
2- You can learn all the material online for free. Actually education online is most likely much better than education at your university, unless you are going to MIT or Harvard.
3- There are so many unrelated classes in a CS degree, like physics, General Electives, very technical classes about computers or some Electronics Engineering classes, it's complete waste of time