To anyone tackling this repair: Keep the rocker shims shown at 11:40 in the same order when removing/installing. When re-assembeling it would be a good idea to check valve clearances and shim the caps if necessary. You'll also need to perform a throttle re-learn procedure after installing your rebuilt engine!
There would be no way of telling. You have a few options. The right option would be to check your Valve Clearance and place the caps at the appropriate location and shim/buy new if needed. Your other option is to just throw them back in. I suggest you do it the right way and check your clearances. If you need the procedure you can e-mail me and I'll send you it. carlobuilds@gmail I just threw mine back in not thinking or knowing. This was my first Subaru rebuild. The valve noise is slightly louder then before the rebuild, but I'm not concerned about it enough to pull the engine again. The caps are all the same thickness from the factory. Good luck! @@Jake-bowser94
When looking up on Subaru parts site the lash adjusters are just lookalikes to the old days and there are several different parts numbers for the different thickness shims. I'm guessing they never really need adjusting but shims should go back in locations they came from.
Many thanks for your efforts to create and deliver this detailed procedure. I went over the 5 minute limit (8-9 minutes) for the cam carrier Three Bond application time. I wasn't confident that it would not fail, so I redid the resealing by first pretending the procedure with a dry run, timing myself on my cell phone timer to be sure to keep within the 5 minute window, and then performing the procedure with the actual sealant.
Those little caps on top of the valves are measured shims and are specific for each position so they need to be kept in order; will save you time at reassembly...to anyone doing this job
I should have defiantly kept them in the right order, and I should have checked clearances. Good looking out! The Subaru parts dealer near me and service manual claim they're all the same thickness from the factory. That being said, I'm sure they all have different wear patterns. After installing the engine I noticed it had a hair bit more valvetrain noise, and I'm 100% sure this is the culprit. I'm not very worried about the slight increase in noise, but if I did the job again I would check clearances and find shims. I checked into it out of curiosity, but my local dealer only sold replacement caps. The manual says you can shim them, so I'm sure you could find them somewhere.
This was an excellent video. I like how you took the time to explain so many of the steps in detail. I have this engine in a newer Legacy, but I would not attempt to rebuild it myself (no need to yet, it’s working fine). Your video gave me an appreciation for the engine’s design and complexity.
Did you ever make the video getting the right side cam pulleys lined up to timing marks so you don't hurt the valves? A valve shim video would be awesome also.
When I’m turning it over at the crank to check it over is it normal for it to occasionally spring back counterclockwise as I’m turning it clockwise? Rotates smoothly but at times there is some spring tension that makes it all want to spring counterclockwise. Is this normal? Did you ever make the video on setting the timing and installing the timing chains? I’d be very interested as I’m working on my 2012 forester fb25 thank you!
If you have the spark plugs installed still that's normal. You're just making compression, nothing to worry about. Remove the plugs and you'll notice it won't do that anymore. I have the footage recorded. I will do my best to upload it within the next few days.
be very careful when turning a singular cam gear, the pistons can bend the intake valves. You can move both cam gears at the same time but not individually.
The cams of these Subaru engines have what's known as a “zero lift” position. In the zero lift position you can rotate the individual cams back and forth freely because the lobs on the cams aren't opening any valves! You have about 180 degrees of back and forth movement before the cam hits lift and you would have to force it to go further. As long as you don’t force the cam out of its zero lift position it’s 100% safe to rotate individual cams back and forth. The key is safely placing the cams in a zero lift position!
hey! very nice job! i am not a mechanic and will try to do this at home, can you share your service manual? thank you for sharing this video, it will be helpful.
@CarloBuilds Im doing a rebuild on the FB25 right now and when i installed and sealed the cam carrier i didnt follow the proper sequence on the bolts. Should i completely disassemble it, clean the sealant off and reassemble it or can i just loosen the bolts and re-tighten it in the proper sequence? btw Thanks for the great video!
I worked on timing belts for the EJ engines but info for the FBs is hard to find. I wish I had seen your video before I pulled my FB to replace the clutch. I never did an engine pull before and all the vids showed EJs. Well I just finished and it only took me a year. :) (I fixed 4 other cars in the mean time)
@@CarloBuilds After getting the confidence with mine I am about to do a head gasket on my son's 2013 Forester with the same engine. Weird that the 2013 FB has the HG issue while my wife's 2009 EJ forester has no issues at all.
@@CarloBuilds With new confidence and your video I am about to attempt a gasket repair on my son's 2013 Forrester. It runs perfectly but the coolant is bubbling. Even if I mess up I still need to get the old engine out to put in a new(er) one.
@vonzellable Make sure to verify head gasket before you commit to such a task. You can get an exhaust gas coolant tester at Harbor Freight for $30. You'll be able to knock it out! Just take your time. My best advice is: Get a gasket kit from subaru or an online oem vendor. Take your time applying the 3 bond. Don't go crazy with it. Keep the valve caps in the original location. Timing chains are likely good, just replace the tensioners. No need to replace the oil pump. No need to replace the water pump. (Obviously check for pully play first) Take pictures of the top of the engine before removal. You'll likely need to replace various rubber hoses on the top of the engine. They will be dry and brittle from years of heat cycles. Work in a clean environment if possible Good luck my friend. If you need any advice or diagrams just shoot me a message.
Had to buy new blue fluid since my tester's fluid from 5 years ago was barely wet anymore. :) I also bought a cheap borescope to look inside the piston chambers to be sure it's just gas going out and not coolant going in.
Recently, I had a dealer fix oil leaks (replace head gasket and reseal) on my 2019 Outback and ever since there is a loud clicking noise at the camshaft. Any idea what the coul have screwed up? Thx
Yes, the valve clearance is likely off. Those shims you see me remove on top of the springs in the video (they look like little caps) are how you adjust the valve clearance. I said in the video they don't matter where they go, but really, they should be at the very least put back in the same spot they were removed. The dealer likely did what I did and placed them back randomly. This caused an increase in valve noise for me, but I'm not very worried about it. I should have checked valve clearances and shimmed the caps accordingly. Being you went to a dealer, they should know this. I would suspect the dealer didn't shim your valves, and your clearances are off, causing an increase in valve noise.
Thank you for the info. Yeah..they must have messed it up and now they're saying they didn't do anything wrong, but the car runs like an old tractor now.
Back in October 2023, I took it back to the dealer and apparently they did some adjustments but it runs even worse, the clicking noise got louder and after a while the oil light went ON. I checked the oil level and it's ok. I took it back to the dealer 2nd time in November and they couldn't figure it out. It's still at the dealer (almost 3 months). They contacted SOA field engineer and he is recommending replacing the camshaft, etc. They send me pics and it looks bad. Below is recent text from the dealer base on the SOV field engineers findings: "here is what we found and here is what the recommendation is : REPLACEMENT OF DRIVER SIDE INTAKE / EXHAUST CAM SHAFTS, CAM CARRIER, CAPS. WILL NEED TO SHIM VALVE CLEARANCES. // FOUND CAM JOURNALS SCORED AND FOUND DRIVER SIDE INTAKE CAM TO BE WORN OBLONG. POSSIBLE DUE TO OIL STARVATION". I have pics but don't know how I can attach them here. What could have caused the oil starvation? Could they have plugged some oil "channels" when they re-sealed it? They oil level was never low, I always checked. Thx for your input.
@SB-sr5nh If it didn't sound like a tractor before you took it to the dealer for a re-build, then it's almost certainly their fault. When they rebuilt the engine, they would have noticed a worn camshaft lobe. Also, if it had a warn lobe when they rebuilt it, it would've likely ticked when you dropped it off. My guess is whoever rebuilt it used too much 3 bond rtv and blocked an oil passage somewhere, causing a starvation. They also didn't check valve clearances and shim accordingly, which caused the initial tick when you first got your car back. Then, after driving it x amount of time, that cam lobe was starving for oil due to a blockage somewhere and started to wear. This is just speculation, but what I can say for sure is the dealer is at fault. Sounds like whoever rebuilt it didn't do the best job. Sorry you're going through this, I hope they gave you a free rental.
Thx.... Now, I have to fight with the dealer as they want me to pay for the fix and they said they won't guarantee any improvement 😤 I also contacted SOA and waiting on what they have to say.
I’m having compression issue and was suggested piston ring dislodge. Any suggestions on how to diagnose? Cool oil light stays on abnormally long and beginning to stall at low idle. Obd2 saying issue with 1st piston chamber possibly spark plug or harness, however, I know this is inaccurate.
@@GreggTchirkow You should start with a basic compression test. I suggest you do both a wet test, and dry. Research both. You can get a cheap tester from harbor freight.
@CarloBuilds I've changed an oil control valve on my 2021 outback and now having the same issues. No over heating but oil is currently leaking through the cam carrier which contaminated the Coolant. Not sure why the oil control valve would cause this problem but it wasn't doing this prior to installing this new oil control valve.
Yes, first time rebuilding this engine. I pinned a comment mentioning that. They should be put back where they came from and clearances should be checked on re-assembly.
To anyone tackling this repair:
Keep the rocker shims shown at 11:40 in the same order when removing/installing. When re-assembeling it would be a good idea to check valve clearances and shim the caps if necessary.
You'll also need to perform a throttle re-learn procedure after installing your rebuilt engine!
How would I figure out where they go if I didn’t keep them in order? Thanks
There would be no way of telling.
You have a few options. The right option would be to check your Valve Clearance and place the caps at the appropriate location and shim/buy new if needed.
Your other option is to just throw them back in.
I suggest you do it the right way and check your clearances. If you need the procedure you can e-mail me and I'll send you it. carlobuilds@gmail
I just threw mine back in not thinking or knowing. This was my first Subaru rebuild. The valve noise is slightly louder then before the rebuild, but I'm not concerned about it enough to pull the engine again.
The caps are all the same thickness from the factory. Good luck!
@@Jake-bowser94
Didn't I see hydraulic lash adjusters? The caps would not be different thickness then
You're right, they are the same thickness.
I still suggest you put them back in their original location due to wear patterns.
When looking up on Subaru parts site the lash adjusters are just lookalikes to the old days and there are several different parts numbers for the different thickness shims.
I'm guessing they never really need adjusting but shims should go back in locations they came from.
About to undergo this job with my MY2016 Outback in Australia. Muchly appreciate the time and effort in putting this together for everyone.
Many thanks for your efforts to create and deliver this detailed procedure. I went over the 5 minute limit (8-9 minutes) for the cam carrier Three Bond application time. I wasn't confident that it would not fail, so I redid the resealing by first pretending the procedure with a dry run, timing myself on my cell phone timer to be sure to keep within the 5 minute window, and then performing the procedure with the actual sealant.
Those little caps on top of the valves are measured shims and are specific for each position so they need to be kept in order; will save you time at reassembly...to anyone doing this job
I should have defiantly kept them in the right order, and I should have checked clearances. Good looking out! The Subaru parts dealer near me and service manual claim they're all the same thickness from the factory. That being said, I'm sure they all have different wear patterns. After installing the engine I noticed it had a hair bit more valvetrain noise, and I'm 100% sure this is the culprit. I'm not very worried about the slight increase in noise, but if I did the job again I would check clearances and find shims. I checked into it out of curiosity, but my local dealer only sold replacement caps. The manual says you can shim them, so I'm sure you could find them somewhere.
Yes!! When I was watching the video, i thinking about it!!
You did all this in a neck brace??? Legendary
This is the best instructional video for a 2.5 teardown. Nice job!
Thank you!
Did this in car. Your video is priceless. Many thanks 🙏
This was an excellent video. I like how you took the time to explain so many of the steps in detail. I have this engine in a newer Legacy, but I would not attempt to rebuild it myself (no need to yet, it’s working fine). Your video gave me an appreciation for the engine’s design and complexity.
I appreciate the kind words. It's fairly complex, yet simplistic in its own way.
Terrific job with this video.
Thank you.
Excellent video thanks
Great video! I hope your neck is better!
Did you ever make the video getting the right side cam pulleys lined up to timing marks so you don't hurt the valves? A valve shim video would be awesome also.
AWESOME VÍDEO THANK YOU SO MUCH CARLO 😍😍😍😍😍👏👏👏👏👏👏
Great video.
Thank you!
When I’m turning it over at the crank to check it over is it normal for it to occasionally spring back counterclockwise as I’m turning it clockwise? Rotates smoothly but at times there is some spring tension that makes it all want to spring counterclockwise. Is this normal? Did you ever make the video on setting the timing and installing the timing chains? I’d be very interested as I’m working on my 2012 forester fb25 thank you!
If you have the spark plugs installed still that's normal. You're just making compression, nothing to worry about. Remove the plugs and you'll notice it won't do that anymore.
I have the footage recorded. I will do my best to upload it within the next few days.
Thank you! Everything worked out good. Running just as it should.
be very careful when turning a singular cam gear, the pistons can bend the intake valves. You can move both cam gears at the same time but not individually.
The cams of these Subaru engines have what's known as a “zero lift” position. In the zero lift position you can rotate the individual cams back and forth freely because the lobs on the cams aren't opening any valves! You have about 180 degrees of back and forth movement before the cam hits lift and you would have to force it to go further. As long as you don’t force the cam out of its zero lift position it’s 100% safe to rotate individual cams back and forth. The key is safely placing the cams in a zero lift position!
@@CarloBuilds just realised this when I was pulling apart my fb25. One of the manuals I found online said to be very careful. Thanks
More videos please 👍
hey! very nice job! i am not a mechanic and will try to do this at home, can you share your service manual? thank you for sharing this video, it will be helpful.
Thanks for the video
Super helpful
Did you ever make the video showing how to time it? Struggling with getting the timing chain on
Thanks
@CarloBuilds Im doing a rebuild on the FB25 right now and when i installed and sealed the cam carrier i didnt follow the proper sequence on the bolts. Should i completely disassemble it, clean the sealant off and reassemble it or can i just loosen the bolts and re-tighten it in the proper sequence? btw Thanks for the great video!
I wouldn't if everything is torqued properly. I think that's more important than sequence.
No problem, I hope all goes well!
Hello, can you tell me where the VVT
filter is installed on 2013 2.0
I'm guessing the new FD series is very similar to this
I worked on timing belts for the EJ engines but info for the FBs is hard to find. I wish I had seen your video before I pulled my FB to replace the clutch. I never did an engine pull before and all the vids showed EJs. Well I just finished and it only took me a year. :) (I fixed 4 other cars in the mean time)
Information on the FB's was very slim, that's actually what lead me to make this video. Congrats on finishing, hopefully it's good to go now!
@@CarloBuilds After getting the confidence with mine I am about to do a head gasket on my son's 2013 Forester with the same engine. Weird that the 2013 FB has the HG issue while my wife's 2009 EJ forester has no issues at all.
@@CarloBuilds With new confidence and your video I am about to attempt a gasket repair on my son's 2013 Forrester. It runs perfectly but the coolant is bubbling. Even if I mess up I still need to get the old engine out to put in a new(er) one.
@vonzellable Make sure to verify head gasket before you commit to such a task. You can get an exhaust gas coolant tester at Harbor Freight for $30.
You'll be able to knock it out! Just take your time.
My best advice is:
Get a gasket kit from subaru or an online oem vendor.
Take your time applying the 3 bond. Don't go crazy with it.
Keep the valve caps in the original location.
Timing chains are likely good, just replace the tensioners.
No need to replace the oil pump.
No need to replace the water pump.
(Obviously check for pully play first)
Take pictures of the top of the engine before removal.
You'll likely need to replace various rubber hoses on the top of the engine. They will be dry and brittle from years of heat cycles.
Work in a clean environment if possible
Good luck my friend. If you need any advice or diagrams just shoot me a message.
Had to buy new blue fluid since my tester's fluid from 5 years ago was barely wet anymore. :) I also bought a cheap borescope to look inside the piston chambers to be sure it's just gas going out and not coolant going in.
Are you going to make a video of retiming the motor?
Yes. I have it filmed, I just need to edit it!
Awesome video...is this the same engine series as on 2019 Outback?
If you have the 2.5 it should be. Check the stamp on top of the engine to verify its a FB20/25.
I'll check when I get the car back from the dealer. It's been sitting there for almost 3 months..unbelievable.
Those are torque to yield bolts so you shouldn’t re-use them but to each their own.
Recently, I had a dealer fix oil leaks (replace head gasket and reseal) on my 2019 Outback and ever since there is a loud clicking noise at the camshaft. Any idea what the coul have screwed up? Thx
Yes, the valve clearance is likely off. Those shims you see me remove on top of the springs in the video (they look like little caps) are how you adjust the valve clearance.
I said in the video they don't matter where they go, but really, they should be at the very least put back in the same spot they were removed.
The dealer likely did what I did and placed them back randomly. This caused an increase in valve noise for me, but I'm not very worried about it.
I should have checked valve clearances and shimmed the caps accordingly. Being you went to a dealer, they should know this. I would suspect the dealer didn't shim your valves, and your clearances are off, causing an increase in valve noise.
Thank you for the info. Yeah..they must have messed it up and now they're saying they didn't do anything wrong, but the car runs like an old tractor now.
Back in October 2023, I took it back to the dealer and apparently they did some adjustments but it runs even worse, the clicking noise got louder and after a while the oil light went ON. I checked the oil level and it's ok.
I took it back to the dealer 2nd time in November and they couldn't figure it out. It's still at the dealer (almost 3 months). They contacted SOA field engineer and he is recommending replacing the camshaft, etc. They send me pics and it looks bad.
Below is recent text from the dealer base on the SOV field engineers findings:
"here is what we found and here is what the recommendation is : REPLACEMENT OF DRIVER SIDE INTAKE / EXHAUST CAM SHAFTS, CAM CARRIER, CAPS. WILL NEED TO SHIM VALVE CLEARANCES. // FOUND CAM JOURNALS SCORED AND FOUND DRIVER SIDE INTAKE CAM TO BE WORN OBLONG. POSSIBLE DUE TO OIL STARVATION".
I have pics but don't know how I can attach them here.
What could have caused the oil starvation? Could they have plugged some oil "channels" when they re-sealed it? They oil level was never low, I always checked.
Thx for your input.
@SB-sr5nh If it didn't sound like a tractor before you took it to the dealer for a re-build, then it's almost certainly their fault.
When they rebuilt the engine, they would have noticed a worn camshaft lobe. Also, if it had a warn lobe when they rebuilt it, it would've likely ticked when you dropped it off.
My guess is whoever rebuilt it used too much 3 bond rtv and blocked an oil passage somewhere, causing a starvation.
They also didn't check valve clearances and shim accordingly, which caused the initial tick when you first got your car back. Then, after driving it x amount of time, that cam lobe was starving for oil due to a blockage somewhere and started to wear.
This is just speculation, but what I can say for sure is the dealer is at fault. Sounds like whoever rebuilt it didn't do the best job.
Sorry you're going through this, I hope they gave you a free rental.
Thx....
Now, I have to fight with the dealer as they want me to pay for the fix and they said they won't guarantee any improvement 😤
I also contacted SOA and waiting on what they have to say.
Nice
What actually caused the compression issue?
Blown head gasket letting compression in coolant.
I’m having compression issue and was suggested piston ring dislodge. Any suggestions on how to diagnose? Cool oil light stays on abnormally long and beginning to stall at low idle. Obd2 saying issue with 1st piston chamber possibly spark plug or harness, however, I know this is inaccurate.
@@GreggTchirkow You should start with a basic compression test. I suggest you do both a wet test, and dry. Research both. You can get a cheap tester from harbor freight.
@CarloBuilds I've changed an oil control valve on my 2021 outback and now having the same issues. No over heating but oil is currently leaking through the cam carrier which contaminated the Coolant. Not sure why the oil control valve would cause this problem but it wasn't doing this prior to installing this new oil control valve.
Lmao those caps on top of the valves do matter. First time?
Yes, first time rebuilding this engine. I pinned a comment mentioning that. They should be put back where they came from and clearances should be checked on re-assembly.
Great video