I'm an American born in Japan. In Japan, everyone admits that they are evil, but trying to be a good person. When I first went to the states as a college student, I was so surprised that people in the US genuinely thought they were "good people", and were just. It's not good or bad, but it was a big culture shock for me.
Japan doesn't even admit their atrocities they committed in ww2 against the Koreans the Indonesians and Vietnamese, the Chinese and other Asian countries
I met a woman in strange clothes while working at a grocery store. She took one look at me and seemed to notice something off when I did my smile at her. She said something like, "You have a lot of sadness in you, don't you?" I don't know why but I felt tears start up. It felt nice to have someone notice, but I was also sad that she did. She made an empathetic sound, gave me a hug, and told me that things were going to be alright. I think about her a lot. I think that good people are like her.
Hmm not to ruin your moment but i feel like that can be said about anyone. Kind of like a typical future teller con artist. They make the most general assumptions and work their way from there depending on what your answer is. Almost everyone has some sadness inside of them, some hide it better than others. If you would tell me all your problems. I would not give you advices or just listen. I would be like “yeah that’s very difficult” (and i don’t even have to mean it) and you would feel seen/heard like never before.
There are none that are good, no not one. Good works are like filthy rags in the eyes of God. We can have our moments but we are not good people. The good news is that we can be forgiven. It can be liberating to know that we are not good and that we need to bow our heads in humility.
@@alceusrydan6237 tbh it's partially true but not entirely, such thing you mentioned would in fact feel good for everyone, however it would have peak effect on depressed people, also less depressed people tend to become some sort of addicted to that feeling and seek attention more and more, however more depressed people who been through much much shit tend to be more like: "tf bro i don't need a pat on my back, i need answers, is there any real way out i can take, or I should rather take the bullet" we don't want validation because ohhh our problems are so bad, we need empathy and hugs, if you're deep enough in the rabbit hole you don't give a single fuck, what is 1 minute of feeling quite ok compared to about 60 years of suffering ahead of you, it's literally nothing, not to invalidate other's problems but there is a fine linę between everyday struggles, feeling down sometimes and suffering constantly 24/7 with perspective or either killing ourselves, or having to endure it for a lifetime, that's why generally happy people want empathy, they don't need any help, they need attention and that's completely fine, everyone needs it but there's a misconception that it's about being sad depressed etc (my joke in previous comment is perfect example of that), but its not, its about attention, desire to feel cared about, to get empathy of others. The whole sadness / depression is just a sort of manipulative way of achieving it. That by itself is mostly okay, but mixing them is actually more hurtful than you could Imagine. People get attention via manipulating by playing sad etc, other people get fed up by it. But who on fact suffers the most? Of course people with actual depression etc, they take a lot longer to open up, then get mixed up with those seeking attention and get ignored (in fact you can even get bullied for that) so they make sure to never open up again. And watch those seeking attention and faking things succeed because it isn't always like the stereotypes, but people faking it behave exactly like stereotypes and seem like actually in need. And as I said once you're deep enough you don't even feel need to open up. That's why some people try to kill themselves a lot times, and some just do it seemingly out of nowhere.
@@trash9005 i shouldn’t have said anything but if i were in their position i’d feel pretty stupid and worse knowing that the lady was just using a con tactic to make it seem like i was seen/heard. Yeah i shouldn’t have said shit but I’m pretty skeptical so i always find meanings behind things when there isn’t any. Who knows maybe the lady genuinely recognizes their deep sadness. Also yeah man i get what you’re saying. It comes to a point where very depressed people don’t care about or try to get attention because they’ll feel like a burden, feel like to others they are only doing it for attention, advices are very shit like “things will get better”. Even therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists don’t know what they’re doing. They’re only doing it for the money of course and they employ tactics like the thing i said “that sounds very difficult” “it’s hard what you’re going through i can’t imagine” as a way to seem like they give a shit about you but they don’t lol. The only ones that do give a shit are your very very close friends or best friends if you (general you) have any. And you still wouldn’t go to them because you would be dumping all your shit on them and making them panic and feel worse ruining their day, week, etc. And them not knowing what to say or do but at least they care i guess I’m gonna say this “It doesn’t get better. You just learn ways to deal with it until you can’t.”
“A good man isn't one who is unaware of his darker side, but one who knows his darker side reaches the depths of hell and still chooses to have it under control and stay virtuous.“ A good man is not one who is perfect or without flaws, but rather one who is aware of his own limitations and actively works to overcome them. This requires a willingness to confront one's own shadow, or the repressed aspects of oneself that are often hidden from conscious awareness. By doing so, a good man can become a more authentic, compassionate, and virtuous person.
I know I’m not a “good” person. I behave like one, but I’m well aware of my dark side. If I were judged by my thoughts and not my actions, I’d be friendless at best, and probably in an insane asylum. I just don’t act on the thoughts and emotions, and I’m careful not to share these dark thoughts with everyone. And so, I’ve managed to avoid any judgement of what’s going on in my mind. If only people knew how dark it was in there.
My piece of advice: don’t dwell on them. Everyone has impulsive thoughts, they’re just our brain latching onto a future possibility, it’s what it’s designed to do. Good thing we have a locus of control to direct our thoughts to more useful areas. Our brain is designed to listen to the executive function, so it’ll trim those pathways off over time.
Everyone's dark. The thing to focus on is how you have agency in how you deal with the darkness. Don't castigate yourself for realising how flawed we all are.
Everybody does wrongs and rights to other people. Nobody ever can be perfect. The fact that people are trying out of the kindness of their hearts to be better for others brings me tears. I really hope for a world where we can all be open and kind to each other. Kindness, love, empathy and compassion are powerful emotions that we all have. I know I will sound corny at best but believe me, no matter what you've done until now, no matter how hard things are going, no matter what other people think about you, you can always be the one that brightens someone's day, and that is what truly changes the world.
We used to have a preacher at my church that used to say leave the skeletons in the closet, lock the door, throw away the key and go on with your life.😊
This is why I almost never hold grudges, or long period hatred. I feel very lucky to came to this realization really early in life, that every person's actions has an extensive, complicated background behind it that i nor said person will fully know, understand, or have a say in. With this I stopped seeing people as bad, or good, just simply human. I stopped hating people who did things that I viewed as wrong, and stopped excusing people who i knew their "reason" behind what they did. All thats left were people, actions, and consequences. I started forgiving people, yet at the same time holding them accountable, and this has been especially important because I implement the same way of thinking to myself.
What about people who's reason behind what they did was money, or power? I think bad people do exist... i've seen so much of them... And i don't mean some bullys or girl that rejected me or some cringy ass things like that.. I mean... Really fucked up people that are happy that other people suffer. People that... don't have any remorse for killing other people, they even are happy and boastful that they don't have any remorse. This is fucked up. Like... to the maximum.
@@MrCake-ic6hn In my opinion they’re not an exception to my main comment. I do believe even the worst of people has a forever unknown story to who they are and thus what they do. Thought it does not at all excuses their actions.
I feel like especially in western culture, we're taught from a young age that there's always a good guy and a bad guy in situations through stories like fairy tales and tv shows, the villain versus the hero. You're either good or bad, no in between. I found that in reality, though, there are LOTS of situations with only victims, fights where both people are in the wrong, or where the situation is just so complicated that it's just impossible to tell, where everyone just tries to do what they think is best.
Very true... and sometimes when one tries to do what they think is best, their actions is misperceived by others, creating more and more wounds. Good intentions do not always result in good outcomes.
@@cstanley3868 They often pave the road to Hell. Funny how we as a species are still trying to figure all this out when the questions are at least as old as written language. 6000 years and essentially no progress, really highlights how little difference our technological and scientific advancements mean in the big picture, just apes with added microchips.
i was abused, in poverty, my mother hated me, no father, multple step fathers, sexually assuaulted, lost the only safe adult young, then mother stole the trusted inheritance. my social security number was used for debts, my sibling molested me, i was raped and beaten for years i never harmed someone else, i hunkered down as silently as i could and once i broke free, i suffered with my head above water, helping everyone i could, even when it made my own belly empty or my hands bleed and now i am free and disabled, I use my blessings and stay without much to bring some to others. stay strong no matter what. you are not necessary here for love or success. maybe youre here to feed those who go without good luck be safe
I am happy you are able to articulate and that you survived. I am sorry, as much as that is meaningless, but I am deeply touched by your story and your wise and thoughtful outlook. You are incredible. I wish you well.
Well, I for one respect you love you and would hold your hand. I'm just some random 54-year-old grumpy man from New Zealand. Thanks for sharing my friend. If your ever "Down under" look me up. I'd be happy to talk with you you magnificent human being.
When I was a child I was “good”. I felt other peoples pain, put others first, went out of my way to help others, wished pain on myself to stop other people from hurting. I never thought of myself as “good” though. Things were very black and white back when I was a kid. Decades later I know I’m broken. I have rage issues and horrible thoughts. Do thoughts makes someone bad? These days I don’t go out of my way to help others like I did as a child. Seeing the world as an adult can jade you.
I agree with Spas k. What you describe is classic CPTSD. I have it. There are test on the web for it. Try doing the ACE test. Once you figure that out please see a trauma therapist if you can. Talk therapy does not work for CPTSD because of the nature of the condition. Trauma therapists have tools talk therapists don't have that can help you. But the biggest help you can get is you. Always remember to love yourself and all your broken parts. They are part of you. Not greater than you. And remember, it's not your fault. You were born wonderful. This was done to you. It's not your fault. People like us can never hear these words enough.
This last quote hits hard. Recently I’ve noticed that I do things with the kindness of my heart and I apologize often. But people tend to leave me or at the very least never apologize for their actions. It would throw me down a rabbit hole that I am not a good person or unworthy but I cant deny that I feel owed an apology when I’m the one looking out. Morality is twisted at times but I think it takes the other person to see it for themselves to know where they stand. If you won’t keep yourself accountable, the universe certainly will
Seems to be a deeper issue. You might have trouble keeping boundaries or something of the sort. People who value and respect you will take accountability and respect your boundaries. Don't let people walk all over you
only help yourself and the people that you care about AND you are sure that care about you. having empathy towards everyone is a weakness that people will tell you is a strength.
Many people are quite selfish that care only about themselves, and some are just super selfish pricks. They assume everyone is selfish like them but they also think some people are weak so that they can take advantage of them. In fact I believe these people like to mistake kindness for weakness. Honest sincere selfless persons like you get abused and neglected for that reason. Don't be hard on yourself, truly you are not a bad person, don't let them take advantage of your kindness and so don't let their cold actions crush your warm heart. But one advice I would give is stop expecting the jerks to be nice, so don't be disappointed that they never show the kindness to you in return. But even more importantly: do not stop being nice yourself, do not make the mistake of thinking you don't have to be kind yourself as if the jerks don't deserve kindness, we all deserve kindness, but note that it's not your responsibility to cater to them. It's just that it's not your fault they are jerks, and you can't do much about the way they are; that's on them. I don't have a lot of time to spare to such people, it's a waste of time when they don't change their ways. Spend your time on kind and selfless people like yourself that actually appreciate it!
Apologies seem so meaningless to me. My live moves on just the same whether you said sorry or not. Coming to a mutual understanding of the situation is far more important than whether or not the person truly believes they're in the wrong and fully regrets it, and especially more important than the mere use of the word "sorry." I myself have been put into this position many times, where I'm forced to apologise even though I don't actually regret my actions. We can acknowledge that you have been hurt without blaming me. I have this friend, whom I love dearly, but this always annoys me: he apologises for every little thing he does that might upset me, and he always demands an apology in return, asking me if I regret what I did until he guilttrips me into it. And he does the same with other people, saying he won't talk to so-and-so until they've apologised. Whereas I would much rather just move on and forget about it. Unless it's actually important enough that we need to talk about it, but then it's understanding I crave, not an apology
I don't think everyone is evil, just easily influenced,I try to maintain nondualistic thoughts.but I love the topic, and I think the justice system definitely needs reform.
Yeah everyone wants to do good and be a driving force of good, but good and evil cannot be so easily defined and our insane ability to reason with ourselves makes this difficult to be absolute of any degree.
Good and evil are just words,and words are the wind.what I believe we are describing is the natural and unnatural, and the lines are blurred from social engineering,peer pressure, and outside influences.controling many of us telling us what to think,who we are,how to respond ,emotional Minipulation. science trying to convince us we are small and insignificant.the easiest way of taking our power is making us think we have none.the list goes on.
The whole point of this video is to realise that we are all products of our circumstances, how the illusion of self control is just that, an illusion… how would you define your ‘self’?
I remember questioning myself these very questions when I was 14-16 yo. I didn't read books, related to the topic, but I had a great interest in psychology and learning about how our environment influence our behavior left me wondering about justice, determinism and blame as a concept. I spent a lot of time, searching for answers, but never found anything useful. This video was a relief of some kind. Thank you.
This is however a very one sided debate...In essence this comes down to free will vs. determinism...I fundamentally disagree with the notion we do not have control over our actions....It is too simplistic to look at the world as a series of causal events...If we take Larry's action as an example the whole argument for determinism is based on the fact that Larry punches someone in the face and the person unfortunately passes away...Despite being short fused and tired Larry could have refrained from punching at all he was certainly tempted towards it but he wasn't forced to do...I would view this as constrained free will which argues that we are pushed in certain directions but we do have some degree of influence within these constraints and an ability to reflect back on our past actions and let them influence our future actions that is where our free will lies....Let's continue with Larry's example...Larry is subsequently judged and condemned as an immoral actor because of the consequences of his actions...This is the utilitarian principle stemming from the enlightenment which states that actions are to be judged on their consequences...However another moral framework exists called deontology which states that an action is right or wrong based on the action and a set of rules and principles rather than its consequences...So in all examples according to deontology every person did something wrong because punching someone in the face is wrong...In reality both these frameworks exist in tandem and are both applied simultaneously by the same person...So everyone did smth wrong but some had less control over their actions than others...Whether you judge smth as moral or immoral is ultimately in the eye of the beholder and different subjective cultural norms shape what we find acceptable and not....However as a thought experiment I wonder if that is true...I think there is a degree of universality amongst moral rules and I wonder if that is inherent in humans or a logical consequence of living together in societies and communities Morality in a sense is subjective knowledge but just because it is subjective that doesn't mean u can go punching people in the face that is because morality is necessary for a functional society...So it is fun to think about however we cannot get rid of morality in its entirety
I did too. and still do. you are not alone. and yes, you can find books on this subject, and yet, this will be an other person's opinion. yours is most important. but if you need some titles (sorry, I am french, but these are huge classical books you'll easily find in English): discours de la méthode (Descartes) *discourse on the method* (Descartes) view of life based on reason les pensées (Pascal) *thoughts* (Pascal) based on christian religion and emotions you can also read Greek/Roman antic authors about *stoicism* for example. and maybe can you ask for a librarian's help with these titles and ideas to begin with. after you read these ones, you'll be naturally drawn to other books depending on your tastes. that's the beginning of an exciting journey! have fun!
This is like a much more fleshed out and sophisticated version of an argument ive been making for decades now. No one ever agrees with me, and most people get extremely emotional and accuse me of all sorts of nonsense. Great video.
@@epicviolence123 Know you're not asking me, but thought it was an interesting question. Like, I don't think anyone can be morally superior? Since the whole thing about morality is based off of who you are, so everyone's view of morality is both incorrect, and correct at the same time. Sure you can objectively judge individual's moralities, but how- when your own view is shaped by your own morality?
I get your point, but I’ve personally always been against using laws and prison sentences as measurements of morality. In many places attempted murder results in a lighter sentence than a successful murder, even though someone who attempted a murder is still on the same moral level as someone that went through with it. I’m pretty sure anyone would agree that just because the killer is defeated at the end of a horror movie it doesn’t make them any better of a person than if they had won.
i agree that they might have done the same act, but the harm and hurt they have caused must be taken into account. for example, imagine police arrives at a scene that somebody is pointing a gun at someone, in that moment, they relize that they are going to be charged the same as a killer, so they resume to kill the other person.
@@hosseinghomian6664 yes, I entirely agree that the harm they have caused should be taken into account when it comes to a prison sentence, but when it comes to morality a person that killed someone is no worse than a person that fully intended to kill someone but failed. It works the other way, too: say someone’s on a cruise and falls off of the boat. If someone jumps off and does their best to try to save them but fails, that doesn’t make them any worse of a person than if they had been able to save them.
Furthermore, there is a difference between genders when it comes to sentences in many crimes, with women having to deal with lighter sentences for the same crime.
That raises the question of the nature and definition of morality. If we judge based on intent, then a person who has criminal thoughts or desires or intent is immoral, even though they've done no actual harm. Should they be judged and punished for what they have not done? And if a person unintentionally unalives someone in a car accident that was not their fault, then grave, irrevocable, and irreparable harm has been done, but the person is completely moral. Should they be allowed to be reckless and continue to do harm without so much as a deterrent of any sort? I understand your position, but it's not a utilitarian one. When it comes to the need for a society to be self-regulating, it seems perhaps your view is that morality shouldn't be the basis used for corrective measures or restricting freedoms. I'm not stating that as fact, I'm just pointing out that it seems difficult to square law and morality with one another if we judge thought and intent instead of actions and actual harm.
After seeing your response to @hosseinghomian6664, I think I see a little more clearly what you mean. In your view there definitely seems some degree of separation between someone's place on the spectrum of morality and how we might have to deal with their behaviors. And for the most part I think I agree, which seems odd when taking into account that laws (in theory) are generally meant to be based on what I think the general definition of morality is. To the degree that harm is caused, an action is immoral. To the degree that well-being is supported, an action is moral.
I always strive to be a good person, and I am well aware that I have flaws. If someone points out a flaw that I have, I won't just brush it off like a narcissist. I will work to improve myself.
I tell myself that and I usually try my best, but at the same time I worry that it's all an act I've convinced myself is actually genuinely me and that my subconscious mind won't let me realize that I'm not trying to do better to the extent that I feel I am, I've obsessed over this topic to the point of being paranoid of the intentions of my own mind, or maybe I'm lying to myself and have just convinced myself I'm paranoid despite actually not caring, I literally would not know if this was the case or not
@@crypt5129 the mind being both for and against itself and neither for nor against itself and needing to know its is and not know it is seems to be an unavoidable head fuck for us.
Despite the strong reactions that morality can give rise to, the difference between good and evil isn’t always so easily defined. Or else the world would steadily be a better place
One precondition for your conclusion would be that all, or at least a substantial majority, of the individuals in that world would both be 'better', and willing to choose such that 'better' extended to their fellow humans. I find this a pleasant precondition to ponder but over 6-decades of life experience strongly suggests to me that this is nowhere near the case.
The world is already a better place, and it will get better, as we go on. A century ago, there was racial oppression which was lawfully accepted by society. People were dying of poverty and disease and pandemics. Serial killers were running amok. The number of people dying daily today is vastly lower than what it was a century ago. Its called evolution of society. Of course we always want better. And the situation will get better. We are not a barbaric species anymore. And we will continue striving towards betterment. So look at the progress we have made.
@@RichardHarlosmaybe better is defined as self pleasure, which makes the statement true, as long as people define pleasure as something good and seek it. Which in my experience, almost everyone does.
Even compassion has become subjective. In that people assume that people who allow negative things to happen are not compassionate or that people who would rather help others understand and do for themselves are not compassionate. So many people and creatures have are and will suffer under the best of intentions.
Many can't learn from the experience of others, be it due to pride or stubborness. Being compassionate isn't sparing people the consequences of their own actions, but giving them the tools to overcome said consequences on their own.
That's kind of the point. True morality doesn't belong to humanity in the first place. Survivalism is something to be overcome, not something to just accept as " human nature".
No-one is fully good or evil. Seemingly evil people do kind things, & seemingly kind people do cruel things. There is no-one on this planet that hasn't caused harm & suffering to others. There's also no-one on this planet that hasn't touched someone else's heart in some way. It's almost like we're complicated & can't be reduced down to such black & white thinking.
@@socialmoon Seemingly, and being evil are two different things. Depends on how cruel it is. Minor cruelties wouldn't make one evil. And that's fine. I don't mind harming people that deserve to be harmed. Justice demands that much, and is a white action. Touching someone's heart doesn't make you not evil. Evil is something firmly rooted in the heart. Even evil has loved ones, but that doesn't make them, not evil. Being complicated or not, one is defined by their moral spectrum. Being less black than another it's still black morality. Being less white than another, it's still white in the moral spectrum.
@@danieicaznoch3588a big part of the point is that the sin continues as long as it can be kept hidden. When exposed, shame or guilt tends to abate or attenuate sinful behavior.
This perfectly describes where I've been with my mentality about the world since I was 30 y.o. It becomes much more difficult to be angry at others when you recognize the trail of destruction that has shaped them, and all of us. I'm currently learning how to safely navigate the world with this worldview, knowing how to set safe boundaries, how to do what must be done at times and allow myself to feel my own valid pain while acknowledging I'm not responsible for what happened to another person, but resolving to fix such issues in advance with how I lead my life and how I choose to help others.
I think people love to classify and judge themselves and others. No matter what. I don't know if I'm a good person or not. I just attempt to treat others the way I'd like to believe is respectful to them and myself. And when i make a mistake I apologize to everyone involved, including myself. And usually at some point I forgive myself and m o v e o n.
The Golden Rule (a.k.a. treat other the way I'd like to be treated) has bitten me more than once. When I see someone who looks sad or is already crying, I keep my distance because when I'm sad, I prefer to be alone to process my feelings. Then I'm criticized for being cold-hearted. And/or deemed to be "strange or weird because I don't want to be hugged or "comforted", and just want to be alone. But I don't mind being comforted by my dog!
@@dddux It's very easy to judge people, especially when I feel tired and drained after being around those people (two, actually, the one who liked to cry and the one who liked to throw tantrums). Everyone has their pet hates. Mine are high-maintenance people. I think that the darkest him about me is that I don't forgive any person just because they tried to get too close. I want to have a barrier around me and other people. A canyon. An ocean. A world.
@@trishawalsh7832honestly? same. but I still console them because if I’m uncomfortable with sharing when it comes to myself, at least they know that I’m not a cold person and it’s just how I want to deal with myself. I guess this phrase is more toward ppl who think it’s okay to treat others badly and expect themselves to be treated like they’re on a pedestal. it sounds like you need to be kinder to yourself. it’s not your fault
I'm so lost in this life, but this channel seems to be making an effort to shed some light on being human. You've earned another subscriber, I look forward to going through your past videos and seeing your future ones.
I always give thanks for the cards I was dealt. They could always be better, but I am reminded daily, almost hourly, that my situation could be infinitely worse. I drink my glass of water, walk to my next destination, eat my meal, unplug my cell phone, and take a deep breath for the people breathing their last in hunger, pain, and agony, not just in some far off land but possibly down the street in an alley. At a hospital somewhere. The people dealing with much worse than I. Away from any comfort, or worse, in the care of the ones they love with nothing left they can do but to see them off. Be grateful, be kind, if enough people do it for long something will happen. Right?
That's the issue with this life and the condition of it. No matter how much we are suffering and how bad our lives are we have to always think that our lives can always become infinitely worse and we have to be grateful that they are not; purely for survival and the sake of sanity. It's a paradox of sorts as our suffering is bad but we lessen it in some way as it could be worse. However at any moment it could become infinitely worse and yet we repeat this same process when we get to the next level of 'worse'. We have to constantly think about people who have it worse. An existential horror of sorts.
I just am. I try to do well, sometimes I'm successful, sometimes I'm not. I've hurt peoples emotions, made them cry, been considerably hurt by other. I've lamented the pain ive caused others and wonder if others lament the pain they cause me. I react, I consider, I love and straddle the gentle line of dislike and hate. I seek to be better, knowing it's what's important. I've been homeless, an addict an alcoholic and have over come all those things. I hust am another human, finding their way through the labyrinthian corridors of the life ive been born into and thrust into figuring out. The more I learn, I learn I know so little in reference to all knowledge out there. It inspires me to be more understanding and recognize the myriad differences and similiarities that lay within each of us. I don't consider myself a nice person, but I do my best to be authenticly kind. I fail sometimes, but that's the point. I don't strive for perfection, I just strive to be more accountable and better.
This nails my views so strongly. My heart is full of compassion and love for every single person. Their experience and their presence. Even in an argument. Even when my blood boils and i want to physically harm somone. Deep down i still feel for their argument. I understand they are living their life doing what they can to survive and make it through. Its why i dont blame people who do bad things. Just like i dont blame the bee who stings. Or the dog which bites. For its in their nature to do so. But just the same its my nature to fight back. I feel this understanding on a fundamental level. And im so happy to have finally find somthing that can put it into words. Thank you for this video
I hadn’t realized how much I’ve integrated these thought experiments into my moral judgments until listening to the scenarios here. I’m a big proponent of Rawls’ theory of justice.
Emathy and compassion come from being mindful, and understanding that not one person has experienced the same things as you. It is our experiences that we share that make us who we are, and putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and trying to relate and understand their situation, and being supportive is what I strive to do for the people around me.
Just about no-one seems to understand that empathy and compassion are two separate things. Empathy is purely emotional whereas compassion is about the mental attempt to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, regardless whether you like this person or not.
I remember just every day after being beaten down, willing myself to just take it, dont do anything, and just take it, dont fight back to be a good person. Now im trying hard to care for myself.
You know what, I actually have to thank you for this. Watching this video and the comments, I finally came to defining the true essence of morality. I don't usually make 3 consecutive comments but I'll make an exception this time. This one is for those who might find it useful. --- Shadow work is not about exposing our shadows and succumbing to it. Shadow work is to recognize our shadows but realizing it's not our true self. It's okay to have shadows. It's fine to have bad, evil, or horrendous thoughts. It's not fine if you identify with it. You are neither the light shown on yourself nor the shadow it casts. You are neither society's lighting, its prescription of morality and goodness. Nor are you the shadow it casts within you that you "repress." You are the genuine goodness within you free from outside influence and circumstances. But most of all, you are you. And you are perfect. Remember that.
Here's a thought exercise for you, morality is just a behaviour you adopt so your neighbours don't have a reason to kill you or your family. (In this exercise police do not exist. How long do you last in your given environment?)
I see myself as someone who tries to be a good person or strives towards it every day instead of someone who is already good, because if I just go ahead and say I’m “good” i’m sort of in the trap that i’m already there and that I don’t need to put in an effort. At the very least I might say i’m decent and law abiding, but I have to consistently work for higher virtues. It’s a journey, not so much a destination. Sure I could say I’m “good” in a colloquial sense, but being truly good is a journey you must always be on the path for, way I see it. If someone asks me if I’m a good person my default response is “I try to be” or “I’m closer to it than I was 3/X years ago”
A rule I’ve lived by that my mom taught me is that there is no truly good or bad person. People can only make “good” or “bad” decisions. People can see the collective consequences of your actions and put a label on them, but the person making those decisions can vary greatly. That’s why I dislike calling someone a good or bad person. I don’t know the whole story. I don’t know what they’ve done. I don’t know what led them to make those decisions. I don’t know if even my decisions are morally correct and therefore something to compare them to. There’s often no true right or wrong, no good or bad. Really the best we can do is minimize suffering. I firmly believe that if we all tried being more empathetic towards one another then our society were drastically improved. Being kind to others has brought me amazing friends and pushed out toxic ones, and I believe that effect could be similar to what would happen with our society if more people were kinder. That’s just my thoughts on a very complex matter.
I don't think you are good or bad depending on what you've done, but what you're likely to do. If you're likely to commit a genocide, I'm comfortable calling you a bad person as you're willing to do that, but that doesn't mean you're entirely bad in every way and will never change, morality and human beings are much more complex than that. However, I'm not going to refrain from making this judgement because I don't know the full story, I just don't think this judgement should mean empathy should be denied to the person being judged
@@crypt5129 That's a good argument too! I do agree that people are able to change with certain circumstances and varying levels of effort. This whole topic is quite complex but I do believe that's a good way of looking at it.
I am truly mesmerized by the depth of your storytelling, navigating through profound philosophical concepts with such clarity. Your ability to weave intricate ideas into a narrative that is not only digestible but also deeply thought-provoking is genuinely admirable. Your explorations into moral luck, fairness, and moral knowledge offer a remarkable journey through ethical considerations that leave me contemplating long after your words have been spoken. Your insightful analysis are nothing short of inspiring, offering a tapestry of perspectives that challenge and invigorate my own thinking.
Too much guilt is not healthy. But we should always strive to be better human beings. We are created with love and surrounded by love even when we do not see it.
Love this channel and every single time I start to feel disillusioned with reality and depressed about tragic events, I always come back here and it reminds me of the impermanence of this experience. No matter how awesome or awful it's all temporary.. and not worth the worry.
Being a good person is an ongoing learning process. Learning about ourselves and others. Understanding that we are just one of several billion individuals and although many of us are alike, we’re all unique individuals. Being a good person is also a responsibility and necessary part of our emotional, spiritual and physical well being that can affect and alter the outcome and future of mankind. Never assume you’re a good person or your intentions were good, but just as important, never allow others to judge you based on their motives and manipulative actions.
I cannot call myself a bad person, because it isn't true. Nor, can I call myself a better person than other people, because I can't project myself onto their experiences in a way which would solidify that idea. What I can call myself, is a stand up guy who does not let their self be lazy, treat people wrongly based on how they treat them, or denies the obvious wish to do the wrong thing for comfort. This makes me feel like a good person.....Thus....., I am one, and will continue to grow as one. Thoughts can be controlling of personal habit, but it is up to you to control your thoughts and where or what they lead to.
I didn't even think of myself I was just excited of the thought of being able to create the best world I can create Then you suddenly brought my situation into the mix and I thought They sociaty I wish wasn't going to descriminate purposfuly anyone anyway, I can't influence what I will be, why should I care? About moral luck: I shun everyone the same, (less than most others would I believe) but wish for anyone to be better My mind gravitates towards how the consequences could better the world the most on a larger scale Punishement should only be given if it helps. It's important to know that this needs to translate into regulations which work on a larger scale This will still lead to nonneeded suffering, but should minimise it I don't claim to be moraly perfect, but trying to is something I value for myself.
I just keep repeating the 14:15 mark. Really trying to get back to when I had compassion for everyone in my life but I seem to have lost it since COVID I think.
I've been watching for a while and honestly you've outdone yourself. You referenced Rawls perfectly, gave light to Nagel (who is really one of the greatest philosophers who ever lived, who I _still_ disagree with on so many fundamental issues), and then brought the is/ought problem to public observation. This is next-level for your work, follow through with it.
I'm not a good person. I'm not a bad person. I'm exactly the type of person I need to be in any given situation. If in that situation I'm deemed good or bad isn't up to me but to others observing me. If there are 100 people observing me there will be 100 judgments levied on how good or bad a person I appear to be, based on their own experiences, filters, expectations... none of their judgments on how good or bad a person I am have little to do with me and do not reflect the reality of who I am. I've no interest in being anyone's hero or villain.
I'm no philosopher, but a lot of the things you mentioned in this video I've believed for a really long time. About how everyone's actions are influenced by every prior circumstance in their life and their genetics, and how humans are just like anything else, in a seeming 'delusion' of moral superiority. I really enjoyed watching this, and am glad it was not just me with these thoughts!
There’s. A group of people called naturalistics and materialists these people at large such as Sam harrris have a defunct world view in which they do think moral superiority is them which is funny.
I think what destroys people is comparing themselves to other people. If you only focus on your own goals, strengths, and unique aspects we all have, you will appreciate yourself more. Also "success" is not so easily definable. Some people may have alot of money but no morals and be horrible people. Some may be poor but have a good heart and help others. Some are blessed with good health, others suffer from bodily ailments. So much of life is perspective, its all about being the best you can be and being happy with it.
@DominantBtch This is what the western world values. There is a basis to argue that success is how much money you have. I agree. Again, wisdom and morality does not have a price tag. I am convinced our lives here are temporary, and out connection to physicality will mean nothing when our souls ascend to g-d and we will give an accounting of our actions In this world. A person could be physically and spiritually well off at the same time, which obviously is the best position to be in. We can agree to disagree probably but, I am convinced by my experiences in my lifetime that there is nothing that matters except one's connection to g-d and the truth.
I can't agree more with you. That's one thing I was thinking about a lot lately. We want to be happy, we want a good life and as a result we chase money and other things. But if what we really wish is to be happy, then it's all about being good and the truth. It is all in the mindset. We don't need to become rich in order to be happy it's pretty much a decision and, most importantly, a way of life.
A final factor I believe is awareness, and stubbornness, whether you are aware of yourself doing what is arguably wrong, and your willingness to change it
People can absolutely recognize that they have certain habits (like getting riled up enough to cause fights) and work on that part of themselves. We are different because we have the intelligence to recognize patterns in our actions and emotions like that. In that situation, where they left that unchecked, yeah, they are to blame.
@@SigFigNewton Wow, is that a moral judgement on a person who might've only made this assessment because they were in a certain state of mind? This might be the only comment section the original poster ever took part in. And you're calling them a monster? You're a monster. /s Get over yourself with making the exact assessment they did and taking a moral high ground already.
Chance morality: Don't be in bar fights. Just because you get lucky a few times and no one gets hurt doesn't mean you have a right to bar fights. Eventually, something can and will go wrong. Your choice to participate (driving home drunk) is what's important and not if the outcome is lucky (home safe) or bad (vehicular manslaughter).
Yeah I have to admit I've never felt the need to throw a punch at a complete stranger. I think that reflects poorly on each of the hypothetical assaulters. Not doing so doesn't make me a 'good person'. I barely think at all about whether I'm a good person.
There is a thing called self-defense. Have you ever been in a bar fight? Or any fight where sh*t just happened? Would you prefer to be a punching bag and call yourself righteous for getting your *ss kicked? And if someone protects you from harm, will you be grateful or judge them? I prefer peace as well, but that does not happen without a willingness to fight.
@FarmingUnclear Ouch. 🙂 I apologize for coming in a bit strong last night. That was the PTSD and insomnia talking. For context, I am a 39 year old army vet. But also half a DSM-5. And a transwoman. I had to fight for survival since I was 6. Quite literally. And whilst I definitely am a degenerate, I also love history, art, filosofy, and peace. People can be very complicated animals. But you' re right I guess, especially regarding the upbringing.
I refuse to call anyone, including myself, bad or good (especially good.) I view actions as harmful or helpful, and condemn harmful ones as deserving punishment though never to any extreme. People can and cannot change, but if we work together to weather the bad, we can work together to foster the good and hopefully make the world a more fair and comfortable world for everyone.
I think what matters most is intent. Of course consequences matter and we should try to prevent bad things from happening but the fact we can never know another person’s inner thoughts means we’re not truly in a position to judge someone else. I guess the big question is “do humans have real agency or are we just a result of nature?”
@@dddux argument on whether giving money is "good" on itself aside, if you are so sure you will never do it then there was no real conscious intent. A lot of people do fall into this lack of self reflection "you aren't alone" "I'll be there for you", proceeds to not follow through in any way whatsoever. If you genuinely *try* to, say for a more concise example you are a parent trying to see their children through and for that you need money, intent expresses itself into action but cannot control it's consequences. If you are such a parent, and working hard towards but never managed to quite do what you wanted then you still tried your best to do good and in my very subjective view, that aspect of you speaks well of your person. If you "intend" to see your children through but go every night gambling and lose your earnings and more at some point there needs to be an accountability check, do I really intend to do this or do I just tell myself that I do to feel better about myself despite my actions not aligning with my intent? Of course there's many problems with this. This is just my personal view. For the sake of the argument and for practical life I like to assume that we humans do have a degree of agency over our actions. That's what differentiates say the example of the person with BPD to the person with non-pathological aggressive tendencies. (If I am honest, I condone neither), but the accountability someone is held to for me is proportionate to the agency they had over the situation. If you are an adult relatively sound of mind you understand risks and consequences. You understand harm and good. That comes with responsiblity.
@@omerelhassan9133 I think intent matters for judgment. We treat people according to their actions. If someone murders but they’re in their mind they were doing something good they still need to be put in jail.
The mind is like a parent protecting an unassuming child from something horrific, creating lies and telling stories to make sense of the chaos around us no matter how hard we try to perceive it.
when i was a kid, i used to be religious and so i started to pray every day but i came to realisation that i'm a bad person for thinking about myself for even 1s during that. i stopped praying for my siblings and friends (i barely ever prayed for myself) and started to pray for "people who are very sad" and "people who have nothing". the irony is that i was still thinking of myself as a bad person and i was often crying about how bad of a person i am because e.g. i'm not just throwing my life away and go to africa and help other kids. i still can't tell who a "good person" actually is, but i realised where my mistake was. i was aiming too high, i aspired to be the "most good" you can possibly be, but you can ALWAYS be a better person, even if i did throw my life away and went to africa, i could still improve on that. it's a never-ending cycle. it's up to us to draw the line, for some just going to the church once a week is enough to make them good, for others even helping kids in africa is not enough
@@thatguy5233 look cuh, i'm not into that insane shi of white folk with their obsession of victimising african americans, but I've thought that you were referrin to Africa as the only major continent with "poor and sad" kids
@@redgrengrumbholdt2671 I was mostly making a joke about the title, but I tell myself I'm a bad person because of internalized negativity and childhood trauma. That's the subconscious part of me saying that. Consciously I know it's far more complicated than that, and the talking points of this video are actually concepts I've pondered for years because of that.
What makes a person good or bad is not one's actions but rather what is in their heart. It's one thing to have flaws. It's another to excuse and/or ignore it. We may not always have complete control over our neural pathways, but we can choose which direction the river flows each and every moment. Keep it completely unchecked and you'll find there's a limit to relying on suppression alone.
It's about works. From the fruits you shall know them. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. All that. I'd rather have the most vile and greedy person invent the cure for cancer to make money than have the world suffer a single communist.
This straight up dangerous advice. Take a more practical approach ,,you are what you do". Doesnt matter when you paint yourself a good guy, when all you do is bad
Title made me laugh because I love a good challenge! And I will tell you… you are absolutely right. Under the right conditions I could be in a whole other situation. I really find this topic interesting and your video on it is beyond outstanding. I’m blown away by your intelligence. ❤
I did find it interesting that he spent so much of the video talking about how we can’t go from “is” to “ought” regarding morality, but then concluded that we ought to have compassion and forgiveness. (I agree that those are virtues, I just found it ironic)
Life is ironic. Universe is ironic. Human consciousness is ironic. Always has been. (Perhaps.. hopes the next phase of evolution fix it or else we will sleep)
@@mingthan7028 Evolution doesn’t have a specific goal outside of ‘survive so you can pass on genes’, so I doubt it is going to change our consciousness anytime soon.
Me either. If I were judged by my thoughts and not my actions, I’d be friendless at best, and probably in an insane asylum. I just don’t act on the thoughts and emotions, and I’m careful not to share these dark thoughts with everyone. And so, I’ve managed to avoid any judgement of what’s going on in my mind. If only people knew how dark it was in there.
But what does it make something "good" or "bad"?Its just opinion.Based on our culture,our society,our surroundings,our survival,e.t.c. .What is good or bad is relative,does it exist without morality?
@@joleaneshmoleane8358thinking bad thoughts doesn't make you a bad person. Acting on them could make you a bad person, but again it depends. It's not black and white like a Hollywood movie. Lots of nuance in there.
"We are all the result of our experiences." I'm not sure where, if anywhere, I heard this, but I think about it a lot. People do not exist in a vacuum, we each have been effected by every little thing in our lives, which leads us to who we are in every moment. Its why we have sayings like 'walk a mile in their shoes' and 'follow the spirit of the law not the letter'. I want to believe that most humans know that, even if it's not something we actively think about very often. "Very little that is *real* is evil" and "No one wakes up planning to be the villain in their own story" are quotes that follow me through life, reminding me to consider what this video is calling 'moral luck'. Not just what a person did, but why they did it and how they arrived to be in this situation doing these things. More knowledge can only help me make sounder decisions.
This is an amazing reflection on many of the thoughts I've had about morality and moral culpability. In fact, I'd like to add something, but at the moment I can't think of any new insights to say that weren't in this video already, apart from this tip: all of the people at the bar fights should be judged and treated based on their conditions and probability of lashing out. In general, the overall compensation for an act should be determined by the probability and potential impact(s) of the consequences.
Nice try. 😆 Meditate, a lot, about what you've said, and: how it would be enforced - who would make the laws and how would it be enforced. When you finally realise how complex the system is, you will appreciate it more as it is.
@@dddux I know it'd be very difficult to implement, but I was just saying what the ideal would be. Maybe the laws around things can be refined a little bit, based on the statistics for the outcomes of all the different instances of something happening
@@SigFigNewton Unfortunately for you, I am not quite that silly. Please provide a detailed scrutiny-durable case on why a brown person walking in your neighbourhood is harmful and what empirical wellbeings have or could have been compromised by the act.
Hitting bad people with a reality check and gaslighting good people into redefining "good person" to exclude themselves. This is truly an interesting video.
It's also just an astoundingly poor presentation of the philosophical thought experiments. It does a great job as an anti-advertisement for whatever educational material they are promoting.
@@AfkAmbiance As it turns out, this video was also very forgettable, so I would have to rewatch it to know what exactly it was about. And based on my comments from seven months ago, that looks pretty unappealing.
10:50 we blame ourselves, because we are the only ones that can actually choose in-between good and bad choices while comprehending the consequences of our actions. If you have a physical difficulty in choosing the right decision, then your punishments are lessened.
Having thoroughly perceived, examined, embraced, and integrated my shadow self I can say without a doubt that I know exactly what kind of person I am. I can also say that there are no good people or bad people, there are only people and potential. We are all saints, we are all devils, we all carry the potential to nurture life, we all carry the potential to destroy life. Only when we have examined the reality of this potential, accepted this potential, and integrated this potential do we have the opportunity to experience to the fullest that which life has to offer.
I would say that while we don't have 100% control over situations around us, we *can* nudge the probabilities of those situations into something more positive. If Larry hadn't decided to go to the bar to drink, knowing he has a temper problem exaserbated by alcohol, then he wouldn't have gotten into the fight that resulted in his arrest. Small decisions can alter large outcomes.
So we can push it further and ask "Why did he go to the bar?". He didn't choose to like drinking alcohol in social environments. He didn't choose to have a bad judgement and weak restraint. It's all things he was born with or taught by people around him that made him go to the bar that night. So why are trauma and mental illnesses good excuses, but being born with bad temperament or taught wrong things in life aren't? Because people with mental illnesses generally can't control themselves, but there are people with bad temperament who can restrain themselves from going to a bar or becoming violent? Well, he wasn't able to restrain himself in this circumstance. How do you know it was his choice, and not a genuine inability to restrain himself, just like a mentally ill person?
@@med2904 Trauma and mental illness are not good excuses to act out in any way and neither is claiming you have poor judgement and restraint. I have poor restraint when it comes to buying things I like and usually spend way too much, but that's entirely my fault. Not some nebulous, cosmic force I have no control over.
@@med2904 This video sure likes to claim trauma and mental illness make excuses, but they don't. 90%+ of mental illnesses do in fact not render you "uncontrollable" and the law agrees quite strongly, as only in 1%~ of trials in history have even attempted an insanity plea, and only 25% of those have actually succeeded on the basis of an insanity plea. This is because any lawyer worth anything at all knows that "Well they just couldn't stop themselves!" is a terrible, near unprovable position, even with a defendant that has documented mental health complications. That premise of the video is fallacious, that escaping moral consequence through claims of mental illness is actually commonplace at all. Borderline personality disorder does not render you "uncontrollable", if it did, it wouldn't be treatable, which it in fact is.
@@TheHazelnoot that is not the premise of the video, its just an example. Just think of it as the mentally ill woman got less jail time because she is a woman and the justice system favors women when sentencing, which works better as an example because it is actually realistic
You cannot be good or evil without other people, because it's not only their perception, but how your actions affect others that make you good or evil. That being said, people overestimate how good they are perceived by others: If you think you go out of your way to make crazy sacrifices for other people without expecting anything in return, they may think you're a "decent person", at best. And if you think you're maybe not a good person, they may think you're an absolute asshole, but they won't say it to your face.
It helps to live your life with a consciousness of how comfortable you might or might not be on your deathbed.and given the medical technologies on hand the likelihood of having to have that experience grows ever more likely with almost every new medical advance. I am glad having deathbed comfort discussions with my parents after we had watched a western one evening and the subject had cropped up in the movie. I was 15 at the time, now 72 and have spent 4 of the last 5 years in and out of a contest with an aggressive lymphoma and have spent a good deal of time in some very gloomy places in my mind but I am grateful for having had that discussion all those years ago. I haven’t gone through the intervening years constantly dwelling on how I was living my life, but aware of the potential.
Is it weird that in the initial experiment, I would not think about the fact I wouldn’t know who I would be, the fact anyone would think that seems weird to me? I wouldn’t build the world based on how I would be effected at all. I’d build it thinking of how it would effect everyone but me. That’s just my natural way of thinking. The fact I would build it for my benefit seems completely alien to me.
One day I had just decided I wanted to be the best person I could possibly be. I shower every night. And during ever shower, I always spend like 45 minutes to over an hour to think about things. I often think about things outside of the shower too, in my room. Im lonely, i have no friends or purpose so I have been having a lot of time to do it. I dont consider myself a philosopher but I do see the similarities now that I think about it. I wont ever allow myself to avoid change that could make me a better person. Even if its something I really want to hold on to. If I can change myself for the better, Ill do it. I know that its probbaly impossible to have no mental bias. But I dont let mental bias affect how I think. I start from a completely clean slate. I think about things from the ground up and separate fact from opinion. Im glad im like this. I have realized SO MANY things. One area ive thought about a bit is LGBT. There seems to be two sides. Lgbt supporters and Anti Lgbt. On both sides, there are extremists. Extremists on the LGBT side may be fighting for whats right. But the fact is that they are still fighting. And hate against hate doesnt fix anything. Thats why I dont call myself a supporter of either. I call myself a supporter of Peace and Love. I understand that many of us are different and may not like lgbt people particularly. But i think REAL peace cant be achieved by trying to eradicate anyone with an opinion. I think we have to comprimise and respect eachother as much as possible for us to become ONE society again so that we can have peace and love ourselves no matter what. Ive also realized just how closed-minded people are. Many "weird people" hate on WEIRDER people. This tells me that few people are ACTUALLY open minded. These weird people just set the bar lower than other people. For example, Im a person who enjoys wearing diapers mainly for comfort. But many lgbt and furry people hate me for it even though I am not trying to hurt anyone or negatively impact anyone is any other way. They simply hate me because im weirder than them. Im not like that though. The last quote in this video really makes sense to me, its something I strive to do. I dont look at things only from a certain angle. I think about it from every angle I can. Even people who are attracted to animals and children arent necessarily BORN as a bad person AND they might not even grow up being a bad person. Its entirely possible that a person who is hypothetically born with a trait that makes them attracted to children can decide NEVER to actually do it to a child out of compassion for the children. Many people would disagree with me on this and say that being attracted to children is already bad enough. But people like this can be an example of bad luck and being born as someone not favoured by society who still wants to do the "right" thing. Many people wouldnt care about people like that. But I do. When people like that come into existence, they dont deserve any less than anyone else in life. A solution to many of our problems might be to do a better job of teaching people compassion and open-mindedness when they are young so that they can think about things as effectively as possible with the intention of being a good person. unfortunately this seems impossible. I dont mean to hate on religion or anything, of course, but religion might just be a roadblock in this process. The idea of religion seems to me to be to have faith in a certain god or gods who tell people how to live life. The problem with this is it makes people not think for themselves. Especially if what the god or gods are saying is something that negatively impacts someone's life. An example is the "being gay is a sin" thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with being sexually attracted to the same gender or sex. So the fact that people put faith into something that includes a line like this is really bad for people who are gay. What is the solution?
This helps with a thought I've been having that every person is inherently selfish. Some people do good things because it makes them feel good. Others do bad things because it makes them feel good. Both people are trying to achieve the same goal... to feel good. And this goes in line with everything said in this video about a persons genetics and circumstances.
The problem with ignoring morality, is that we don't always know what is good for us, or what will ultimately make us happy & feel good. Do you let a child eat nothing but candy? Wouldn't that make them happy (for the moment)? What is the long lasting effect? Adults are also easily deceived by things that might make us feel good in the moment, but later will bring us misery. The video mentions conscience, morality, religion, etc. but just dismisses it. However, studies have shown that people who follow these kind of truths tend to be happier & live longer.
We uphold morality because of it is the more beneficial thing in the long run if actions had no consequences most people including myself would do as they'd please
@@chrismcaulay7805 that's where morality and good vs bad comes in. But it can be quite a disadvantage for a person if they are born with a feeling that they need to hurt others to feel fulfilled vs a person who feels they need to help others to be fulfilled. Which is the point of the video.
This is pretty difficult to think about when your mom told you since you were a little child that you're a good person and that you're not capable of being bad, and the I have problems when I do something bad I find myself trying to convinving myself that mom didn't lie to me, feeling guilty because I'm not like mom thinks I am, and then start doing good things to keep her happy with my behavior
My mom always told me every since I was a little girl to never think that you are better than anyone else,but, never think anyone else is better than you are either. It's something I have lived by all my life.
I’ve often thought about this almost like a reincarnation style. One thing that worries me is that there are people who don’t commit atrocities simply because they believe someone is in the sky watching them and will judge them when they die on where they will spend eternity. Yet it also comforts me knowing it’s that belief of being watched that’s stopping them from doing bad stuff
There are also people go out and harm others because they because they believe some Sky Folk™want them to, or so they're told. Even then, I would imagine some do it because they feel its the "right" thing, even if they may individualistically disagree -- and others will gladly do it because they just want to and are opportunists, those folks that have become so afraid that they lust for power and control... or maybe never were disabused from power and control early on and any accountability is just relatively that painful to them.
@@rycona9878 But that number pales in comparison to the amount of people that hurt others because they believe we are just animals and ultimately nothing matters.
Actually a belief in God an especially a belief in Jesus makes people better to their fellow humans because that is supposed to be the whole thing in the Christian faith, we are supposed to do as Jesus did, He caused no harm to anyone, helped people whenever He could and accepted people as they were. The problem is many people have done horrible things through history in the name of Christianity and messed it all up. They did a study that said that people who believe in a higher power are actually happier people.
We struggle with what morality is and how we can be fair, because buried beneath of what we claim to be true or not is the confusion that exist on what we truly need. Individually speaking, We are mostly unsure of what our needs are. That is one of the reason we struggle to come to terms to how to really be fair, and what is morally true.
I like that this channel gives me something to ponder. Consider this. You are a good person but your actions are bad. Example: I have a friend (yes it’s me) who had an emotionally difficult childhood. My friend doesn’t want others to experience the pain that they lived with. So when others come to them merely to vent, my friend gives unsolicited advice. At 71, my friend learned that doing that made her the a-hole. My friend thought that she was helping others to not make the same mistakes that they made. What my friend recently found out is that by giving that advice without being asked, she was essentially, telling that person that they are incapable of figuring out their way, their path in life. So, while my friend was trying to be a good person, she in fact, was being a bad person.
I personally feel that if I'm going to die either way, then my "goodness" is based of how much I've helped humankind as a whole, and sofar by that metric I'm an awful person.
With the is-ought problem, instrumental convergence (various goals often sharing sub-goals) can probably be used to identify principles conducive to a myriad of goals. I doubt any specific set of principles would work for literally every goal, but there are probably sets of coherent principles for large classes of goals. Even if it doesn't lead to objective moral principles, people have goals (otherwise, a person would stop moving and not pursue anything while they waste away), so it would give human principles for pursuing their goals. We kind of already see this in ethics promoting achievement (valuing strength, nobility and power) and in moralities adverse to suffering (valuing meekness, humility and compassion).
The thing that has always struck me about the is/ought distinction is that morality, as with many cultural phenomena, can only exist when two or more people exist and interact (ignoring for the moment the (at least) moral-like behaviours that Frans de Waal points out in a great many species, including his favoured Chimps and Bonobos). If something relies on the perspective of two or more people to have any existence at all, it will always be subjective, by definition. So, you can speak about how it "is" - though this is also subjective - and about how it "ought" to be, by your own lights, and you might even be able to make a decent case by noting the preponderance of human preferences, but it will still be subjective. Given this fact about morality, I'm not sure that I have a problem with affirming something axiomatic like the measure of the moral-ness of a given action being whether it adds to human flourishing or not. That being said, I feel like we could co-opt something quite solipsistic to ground morality, and it takes us back to the Original Position and the fact that morality can only exist when two or more people interact. We end up with something somewhere between the Golden Rule and the Platinum Rule. The latter being from Karl Popper, and reads as 'Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.' If we would want someone to treat us in a certain way, then it seems appropriate to treat them in that way until we discover that they do not want to be treated in that way. The reason this is ultimately appropriate is that we have no justification for us being treated differently, and such justification can be applied to them, so it's self-negating. This reminds me of the idea in counselling and psychology of Universal Positive Regard. If we treat others as ourselves and deviate from this only in line with their preferences (or discontinue contact if they would be treated in a way that we are not comfortable with), it seems like we could get a long way, but the basic underlying premise, nevertheless, is self-preservation.
I disagree with many of the hypothesis's listed. The basis of us all is our ability to choose. Knowing the consequences of actions and acting accordingly. In the bar fight... there never had to be a fight. When Larry or Tom chose to throw that first punch, they had already lost. This is what makes us all equal. We choose who we want to be. We as humans are not controlled by our emotions, but are guided by them.
I love this video. Some things I have already partly figured out through self-reflection but this is the first I have heard of "moral luck". Super interesting stuff!
I feel that compassion and forgiveness creates more harm than good unless balanced by intelligence and cynicism or at least rudimentary pattern recognition. I think a lot of harm can come from a person trying to care and help without totally understanding the situation or not thinking through the consequences to intervening. When we help someone we rob them of the ability to help themselves.
Not really, nobody can be helped if they don't wish to help themselves first. Even if you are the one who wanted to help someone, the person you are helping must also accept your help in order to be helped. This can only take a second and yet this should be acknowledged.
I wouldn't say I'm a bad person because I try to live a decent life. I don't like cheating, lying, gossiping, using foul language and I try to be a good person. I find contentment in knowing that in my religion I know God judges a person by their intentions than their actions. And that the world isn't a fair place. It can never be.
God cares very much about your intentions, but you still need to show that you're willing to follow through. Penance means very little if you don't show that you're willing to change for the better.
It's a pity your God didn't make a fair place for us to live in. Real dick move on his part. Not that I suspect I'd do much better in the blank room described in the opening, so I can be forgiving of whoever entered the settings with no clue how this would actually play out.
We have to take RESPONSIBILITY for the life we get here on earth and to work on ourselves, no matter what, to get the best version of ourself! We all got a lot to carry, things we didn't want, we didn't choose, even ancestral trauma etc. And life is the gift to all of us to go through these challenges to grow, transform it and live the best life we can.
ive found that the best answer to all of these moral conundrums is pretty simple: "dont be a dick". regardless of any basis for morality, the fact remains that we all have to live together on this planet. the origin and "why" of morality may be subjective, but being human is entirely objective, and so we should all act accordingly. you dont have to, and history has shown us than there have been plenty of people who dont, but the reason for the "ought" is pretty simple: no one likes assholes.
I'm an American born in Japan. In Japan, everyone admits that they are evil, but trying to be a good person. When I first went to the states as a college student, I was so surprised that people in the US genuinely thought they were "good people", and were just. It's not good or bad, but it was a big culture shock for me.
That's odd because Christianity teaches that we are severely flawed but can be redeemed through God's salvation.
Japan doesn't even admit their atrocities they committed in ww2 against the Koreans the Indonesians and Vietnamese, the Chinese and other Asian countries
@@bradleyboyer9979 Hint. College.
@@bradleyboyer9979 am i being dumb?
where did he write something about christianity or is it that wide spread in japan?
would be a shock if yes
@Decton I think they meant for how "Christian" America claims to be the people don't appear to reflect its principles so much as politics.
I met a woman in strange clothes while working at a grocery store. She took one look at me and seemed to notice something off when I did my smile at her. She said something like, "You have a lot of sadness in you, don't you?" I don't know why but I felt tears start up. It felt nice to have someone notice, but I was also sad that she did. She made an empathetic sound, gave me a hug, and told me that things were going to be alright. I think about her a lot. I think that good people are like her.
wet dream of depressed people ngl
Hmm not to ruin your moment but i feel like that can be said about anyone. Kind of like a typical future teller con artist. They make the most general assumptions and work their way from there depending on what your answer is.
Almost everyone has some sadness inside of them, some hide it better than others.
If you would tell me all your problems. I would not give you advices or just listen. I would be like “yeah that’s very difficult” (and i don’t even have to mean it) and you would feel seen/heard like never before.
There are none that are good, no not one. Good works are like filthy rags in the eyes of God. We can have our moments but we are not good people. The good news is that we can be forgiven. It can be liberating to know that we are not good and that we need to bow our heads in humility.
@@alceusrydan6237 tbh it's partially true but not entirely, such thing you mentioned would in fact feel good for everyone, however it would have peak effect on depressed people, also less depressed people tend to become some sort of addicted to that feeling and seek attention more and more, however more depressed people who been through much much shit tend to be more like: "tf bro i don't need a pat on my back, i need answers, is there any real way out i can take, or I should rather take the bullet" we don't want validation because ohhh our problems are so bad, we need empathy and hugs, if you're deep enough in the rabbit hole you don't give a single fuck, what is 1 minute of feeling quite ok compared to about 60 years of suffering ahead of you, it's literally nothing, not to invalidate other's problems but there is a fine linę between everyday struggles, feeling down sometimes and suffering constantly 24/7 with perspective or either killing ourselves, or having to endure it for a lifetime, that's why generally happy people want empathy, they don't need any help, they need attention and that's completely fine, everyone needs it but there's a misconception that it's about being sad depressed etc (my joke in previous comment is perfect example of that), but its not, its about attention, desire to feel cared about, to get empathy of others. The whole sadness / depression is just a sort of manipulative way of achieving it. That by itself is mostly okay, but mixing them is actually more hurtful than you could Imagine. People get attention via manipulating by playing sad etc, other people get fed up by it. But who on fact suffers the most? Of course people with actual depression etc, they take a lot longer to open up, then get mixed up with those seeking attention and get ignored (in fact you can even get bullied for that) so they make sure to never open up again. And watch those seeking attention and faking things succeed because it isn't always like the stereotypes, but people faking it behave exactly like stereotypes and seem like actually in need. And as I said once you're deep enough you don't even feel need to open up. That's why some people try to kill themselves a lot times, and some just do it seemingly out of nowhere.
@@trash9005 i shouldn’t have said anything but if i were in their position i’d feel pretty stupid and worse knowing that the lady was just using a con tactic to make it seem like i was seen/heard. Yeah i shouldn’t have said shit but I’m pretty skeptical so i always find meanings behind things when there isn’t any. Who knows maybe the lady genuinely recognizes their deep sadness.
Also yeah man i get what you’re saying. It comes to a point where very depressed people don’t care about or try to get attention because they’ll feel like a burden, feel like to others they are only doing it for attention, advices are very shit like “things will get better”. Even therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists don’t know what they’re doing. They’re only doing it for the money of course and they employ tactics like the thing i said “that sounds very difficult” “it’s hard what you’re going through i can’t imagine” as a way to seem like they give a shit about you but they don’t lol. The only ones that do give a shit are your very very close friends or best friends if you (general you) have any. And you still wouldn’t go to them because you would be dumping all your shit on them and making them panic and feel worse ruining their day, week, etc. And them not knowing what to say or do but at least they care i guess
I’m gonna say this “It doesn’t get better. You just learn ways to deal with it until you can’t.”
"am i a bad person?"
if you ever ask yourself that, you've already demonstrated the desire to be good.
Or you wanna confirm if your evilness is up to snuff :)
Duality of man
Nah I just be fact checking ;)
That doesn't mean you're not a bad person though.
@@SiresOrbwits-oi8mz true but its the first step of becoming better
“A good man isn't one who is unaware of his darker side, but one who knows his darker side reaches the depths of hell and still chooses to have it under control and stay virtuous.“
A good man is not one who is perfect or without flaws, but rather one who is aware of his own limitations and actively works to overcome them.
This requires a willingness to confront one's own shadow, or the repressed aspects of oneself that are often hidden from conscious awareness.
By doing so, a good man can become a more authentic, compassionate, and virtuous person.
This is very insightful and uplifting 👏🏾. Who is the originator of this line of thought? I'd like to read more of their work
Sounds like Carl Gustav jung.
Finally a good comment. 😆 Great, actually. Something worth reading multiple times, even putting it on paper. Cheers! Is it really Jung's?
Where does that quote come from?
Please I need to know where that quote comes fr om
I know I’m not a “good” person. I behave like one, but I’m well aware of my dark side. If I were judged by my thoughts and not my actions, I’d be friendless at best, and probably in an insane asylum. I just don’t act on the thoughts and emotions, and I’m careful not to share these dark thoughts with everyone. And so, I’ve managed to avoid any judgement of what’s going on in my mind. If only people knew how dark it was in there.
Me too my friend. Me too.
My piece of advice: don’t dwell on them. Everyone has impulsive thoughts, they’re just our brain latching onto a future possibility, it’s what it’s designed to do. Good thing we have a locus of control to direct our thoughts to more useful areas. Our brain is designed to listen to the executive function, so it’ll trim those pathways off over time.
You’re not special pal. Your human like the rest of us. Your not as unique as you think.
My thoughts aren't mine nor are they me. They just visit me and tempt me like no other
Everyone's dark. The thing to focus on is how you have agency in how you deal with the darkness. Don't castigate yourself for realising how flawed we all are.
Everybody does wrongs and rights to other people. Nobody ever can be perfect. The fact that people are trying out of the kindness of their hearts to be better for others brings me tears.
I really hope for a world where we can all be open and kind to each other. Kindness, love, empathy and compassion are powerful emotions that we all have.
I know I will sound corny at best but believe me, no matter what you've done until now, no matter how hard things are going, no matter what other people think about you, you can always be the one that brightens someone's day, and that is what truly changes the world.
Words to live by.
❤
👏👏👏
🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐 W
We used to have a preacher at my church that used to say leave the skeletons in the closet, lock the door, throw away the key and go on with your life.😊
This is why I almost never hold grudges, or long period hatred. I feel very lucky to came to this realization really early in life, that every person's actions has an extensive, complicated background behind it that i nor said person will fully know, understand, or have a say in. With this I stopped seeing people as bad, or good, just simply human. I stopped hating people who did things that I viewed as wrong, and stopped excusing people who i knew their "reason" behind what they did. All thats left were people, actions, and consequences. I started forgiving people, yet at the same time holding them accountable, and this has been especially important because I implement the same way of thinking to myself.
Beautiful.
Now pass on your enlightenment to others
What about people who's reason behind what they did was money, or power? I think bad people do exist... i've seen so much of them... And i don't mean some bullys or girl that rejected me or some cringy ass things like that.. I mean... Really fucked up people that are happy that other people suffer. People that... don't have any remorse for killing other people, they even are happy and boastful that they don't have any remorse. This is fucked up. Like... to the maximum.
@@MrCake-ic6hn In my opinion they’re not an exception to my main comment. I do believe even the worst of people has a forever unknown story to who they are and thus what they do. Thought it does not at all excuses their actions.
I think we should forgive people, but I think a certain line must be drawn when they repeat their wrong actions multiple times.
I feel like especially in western culture, we're taught from a young age that there's always a good guy and a bad guy in situations through stories like fairy tales and tv shows, the villain versus the hero. You're either good or bad, no in between.
I found that in reality, though, there are LOTS of situations with only victims, fights where both people are in the wrong, or where the situation is just so complicated that it's just impossible to tell, where everyone just tries to do what they think is best.
I think a cult is an easy example of this. Almost everyone except the very top is usually just someone manipulated into manipulating others.
Very true... and sometimes when one tries to do what they think is best, their actions is misperceived by others, creating more and more wounds. Good intentions do not always result in good outcomes.
Video spends 20 minutes explaining myriad of problems that are all solved by Determinism, and doesn't mention it once.
Any comment section in a nutshell basically
@@cstanley3868 They often pave the road to Hell. Funny how we as a species are still trying to figure all this out when the questions are at least as old as written language. 6000 years and essentially no progress, really highlights how little difference our technological and scientific advancements mean in the big picture, just apes with added microchips.
i was abused, in poverty, my mother hated me, no father, multple step fathers, sexually assuaulted, lost the only safe adult young, then mother stole the trusted inheritance. my social security number was used for debts, my sibling molested me, i was raped and beaten for years
i never harmed someone else, i hunkered down as silently as i could and once i broke free, i suffered with my head above water, helping everyone i could, even when it made my own belly empty or my hands bleed
and now i am free and disabled, I use my blessings and stay without much to bring some to others.
stay strong no matter what. you are not necessary here for love or success. maybe youre here to feed those who go without
good luck
be safe
So sorry that you have to go through all this , praying good for you in future
Hello. My life has also been full of suffering. I'm sorry you experienced this, and I hope things are better for you now or soon ❤
damn man hope you get a nice life
I am happy you are able to articulate and that you survived. I am sorry, as much as that is meaningless, but I am deeply touched by your story and your wise and thoughtful outlook. You are incredible. I wish you well.
Well, I for one respect you love you and would hold your hand. I'm just some random 54-year-old grumpy man from New Zealand. Thanks for sharing my friend. If your ever "Down under" look me up. I'd be happy to talk with you you magnificent human being.
When I was a child I was “good”. I felt other peoples pain, put others first, went out of my way to help others, wished pain on myself to stop other people from hurting. I never thought of myself as “good” though. Things were very black and white back when I was a kid. Decades later I know I’m broken. I have rage issues and horrible thoughts. Do thoughts makes someone bad? These days I don’t go out of my way to help others like I did as a child. Seeing the world as an adult can jade you.
True. Also horrible past experiences where you've tried or you think you were being good but get insulted or mocked instead.
You should check out "Complex PTSD" by Pete Walker.
I agree with Spas k. What you describe is classic CPTSD. I have it. There are test on the web for it. Try doing the ACE test. Once you figure that out please see a trauma therapist if you can. Talk therapy does not work for CPTSD because of the nature of the condition. Trauma therapists have tools talk therapists don't have that can help you. But the biggest help you can get is you. Always remember to love yourself and all your broken parts. They are part of you. Not greater than you. And remember, it's not your fault. You were born wonderful. This was done to you. It's not your fault. People like us can never hear these words enough.
@@spas.k also “mind hacking happiness” by Sean Webb.
@@justanothermortal1373 this is exactly sadly true
This last quote hits hard. Recently I’ve noticed that I do things with the kindness of my heart and I apologize often. But people tend to leave me or at the very least never apologize for their actions. It would throw me down a rabbit hole that I am not a good person or unworthy but I cant deny that I feel owed an apology when I’m the one looking out. Morality is twisted at times but I think it takes the other person to see it for themselves to know where they stand. If you won’t keep yourself accountable, the universe certainly will
Seems to be a deeper issue. You might have trouble keeping boundaries or something of the sort. People who value and respect you will take accountability and respect your boundaries. Don't let people walk all over you
only help yourself and the people that you care about AND you are sure that care about you. having empathy towards everyone is a weakness that people will tell you is a strength.
Many people are quite selfish that care only about themselves, and some are just super selfish pricks. They assume everyone is selfish like them but they also think some people are weak so that they can take advantage of them. In fact I believe these people like to mistake kindness for weakness. Honest sincere selfless persons like you get abused and neglected for that reason. Don't be hard on yourself, truly you are not a bad person, don't let them take advantage of your kindness and so don't let their cold actions crush your warm heart. But one advice I would give is stop expecting the jerks to be nice, so don't be disappointed that they never show the kindness to you in return. But even more importantly: do not stop being nice yourself, do not make the mistake of thinking you don't have to be kind yourself as if the jerks don't deserve kindness, we all deserve kindness, but note that it's not your responsibility to cater to them. It's just that it's not your fault they are jerks, and you can't do much about the way they are; that's on them. I don't have a lot of time to spare to such people, it's a waste of time when they don't change their ways. Spend your time on kind and selfless people like yourself that actually appreciate it!
Apologies seem so meaningless to me. My live moves on just the same whether you said sorry or not. Coming to a mutual understanding of the situation is far more important than whether or not the person truly believes they're in the wrong and fully regrets it, and especially more important than the mere use of the word "sorry."
I myself have been put into this position many times, where I'm forced to apologise even though I don't actually regret my actions. We can acknowledge that you have been hurt without blaming me.
I have this friend, whom I love dearly, but this always annoys me: he apologises for every little thing he does that might upset me, and he always demands an apology in return, asking me if I regret what I did until he guilttrips me into it. And he does the same with other people, saying he won't talk to so-and-so until they've apologised. Whereas I would much rather just move on and forget about it. Unless it's actually important enough that we need to talk about it, but then it's understanding I crave, not an apology
@@Shashu_the_little_Voidlingyou want to solve your problems. a mere word does no such thing.
You know this whole thing is true when youre mad at someone about something, but then you realize that deep down, you are just like them
I don't think everyone is evil, just easily influenced,I try to maintain nondualistic thoughts.but I love the topic, and I think the justice system definitely needs reform.
Yeah everyone wants to do good and be a driving force of good, but good and evil cannot be so easily defined and our insane ability to reason with ourselves makes this difficult to be absolute of any degree.
Good and evil are just words,and words are the wind.what I believe we are describing is the natural and unnatural, and the lines are blurred from social engineering,peer pressure, and outside influences.controling many of us telling us what to think,who we are,how to respond ,emotional Minipulation. science trying to convince us we are small and insignificant.the easiest way of taking our power is making us think we have none.the list goes on.
No everyone is evil.
@@PrettyBlue653facts they're just not about bad apples but bad barrel makers too
what is evil
I used to judge, critisize, but now I just accept everything, everyone, as is, as long as it doesn't affect me. I can only control one person, myself.
In most situations, that’s what laws and the judges’ interpretations are for. 🌝
The whole point of this video is to realise that we are all products of our circumstances, how the illusion of self control is just that, an illusion… how would you define your ‘self’?
@@ExtremeAce9 I have made a conscious decision, do not harm any living creature, unnecessarily. I am trying to cleanse/purify my soul.
But tell me where that "conscious" thought came from?
Krokodyl, no, we don't leave it up to law or stupid a $ $ judges. All that is trash. Best to judge for oneself.
Extremely thought-provoking. Perhaps we will never know if we are truly good, but we can't be faulted for doing our best to be.
I remember questioning myself these very questions when I was 14-16 yo. I didn't read books, related to the topic, but I had a great interest in psychology and learning about how our environment influence our behavior left me wondering about justice, determinism and blame as a concept. I spent a lot of time, searching for answers, but never found anything useful. This video was a relief of some kind. Thank you.
There's literally a book on this subject. You didn't spend enough time searching then
This is however a very one sided debate...In essence this comes down to free will vs. determinism...I fundamentally disagree with the notion we do not have control over our actions....It is too simplistic to look at the world as a series of causal events...If we take Larry's action as an example the whole argument for determinism is based on the fact that Larry punches someone in the face and the person unfortunately passes away...Despite being short fused and tired Larry could have refrained from punching at all he was certainly tempted towards it but he wasn't forced to do...I would view this as constrained free will which argues that we are pushed in certain directions but we do have some degree of influence within these constraints and an ability to reflect back on our past actions and let them influence our future actions that is where our free will lies....Let's continue with Larry's example...Larry is subsequently judged and condemned as an immoral actor because of the consequences of his actions...This is the utilitarian principle stemming from the enlightenment which states that actions are to be judged on their consequences...However another moral framework exists called deontology which states that an action is right or wrong based on the action and a set of rules and principles rather than its consequences...So in all examples according to deontology every person did something wrong because punching someone in the face is wrong...In reality both these frameworks exist in tandem and are both applied simultaneously by the same person...So everyone did smth wrong but some had less control over their actions than others...Whether you judge smth as moral or immoral is ultimately in the eye of the beholder and different subjective cultural norms shape what we find acceptable and not....However as a thought experiment I wonder if that is true...I think there is a degree of universality amongst moral rules and I wonder if that is inherent in humans or a logical consequence of living together in societies and communities
Morality in a sense is subjective knowledge but just because it is subjective that doesn't mean u can go punching people in the face that is because morality is necessary for a functional society...So it is fun to think about however we cannot get rid of morality in its entirety
@a2ziatoolong: Wow! Why so hostile?
I did too. and still do. you are not alone.
and yes, you can find books on this subject, and yet, this will be an other person's opinion. yours is most important.
but if you need some titles (sorry, I am french, but these are huge classical books you'll easily find in English):
discours de la méthode (Descartes)
*discourse on the method* (Descartes) view of life based on reason
les pensées (Pascal)
*thoughts* (Pascal) based on christian religion and emotions
you can also read Greek/Roman antic authors about *stoicism* for example.
and maybe can you ask for a librarian's help with these titles and ideas to begin with.
after you read these ones, you'll be naturally drawn to other books depending on your tastes.
that's the beginning of an exciting journey! have fun!
This is like a much more fleshed out and sophisticated version of an argument ive been making for decades now. No one ever agrees with me, and most people get extremely emotional and accuse me of all sorts of nonsense. Great video.
You should show them this video
@@jordendarrett1725you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.
@@SigFigNewton Do you view yourself as morally superior?
@@epicviolence123 Know you're not asking me, but thought it was an interesting question.
Like, I don't think anyone can be morally superior? Since the whole thing about morality is based off of who you are, so everyone's view of morality is both incorrect, and correct at the same time. Sure you can objectively judge individual's moralities, but how- when your own view is shaped by your own morality?
@@themanysirs1814 I would say, in conjunction with what I took from the video, the universality of the morality in question.
I get your point, but I’ve personally always been against using laws and prison sentences as measurements of morality. In many places attempted murder results in a lighter sentence than a successful murder, even though someone who attempted a murder is still on the same moral level as someone that went through with it. I’m pretty sure anyone would agree that just because the killer is defeated at the end of a horror movie it doesn’t make them any better of a person than if they had won.
i agree that they might have done the same act, but the harm and hurt they have caused must be taken into account. for example, imagine police arrives at a scene that somebody is pointing a gun at someone, in that moment, they relize that they are going to be charged the same as a killer, so they resume to kill the other person.
@@hosseinghomian6664 yes, I entirely agree that the harm they have caused should be taken into account when it comes to a prison sentence, but when it comes to morality a person that killed someone is no worse than a person that fully intended to kill someone but failed. It works the other way, too: say someone’s on a cruise and falls off of the boat. If someone jumps off and does their best to try to save them but fails, that doesn’t make them any worse of a person than if they had been able to save them.
Furthermore, there is a difference between genders when it comes to sentences in many crimes, with women having to deal with lighter sentences for the same crime.
That raises the question of the nature and definition of morality. If we judge based on intent, then a person who has criminal thoughts or desires or intent is immoral, even though they've done no actual harm. Should they be judged and punished for what they have not done? And if a person unintentionally unalives someone in a car accident that was not their fault, then grave, irrevocable, and irreparable harm has been done, but the person is completely moral. Should they be allowed to be reckless and continue to do harm without so much as a deterrent of any sort? I understand your position, but it's not a utilitarian one.
When it comes to the need for a society to be self-regulating, it seems perhaps your view is that morality shouldn't be the basis used for corrective measures or restricting freedoms. I'm not stating that as fact, I'm just pointing out that it seems difficult to square law and morality with one another if we judge thought and intent instead of actions and actual harm.
After seeing your response to @hosseinghomian6664, I think I see a little more clearly what you mean. In your view there definitely seems some degree of separation between someone's place on the spectrum of morality and how we might have to deal with their behaviors. And for the most part I think I agree, which seems odd when taking into account that laws (in theory) are generally meant to be based on what I think the general definition of morality is. To the degree that harm is caused, an action is immoral. To the degree that well-being is supported, an action is moral.
I always strive to be a good person, and I am well aware that I have flaws. If someone points out a flaw that I have, I won't just brush it off like a narcissist. I will work to improve myself.
I tell myself that and I usually try my best, but at the same time I worry that it's all an act I've convinced myself is actually genuinely me and that my subconscious mind won't let me realize that I'm not trying to do better to the extent that I feel I am, I've obsessed over this topic to the point of being paranoid of the intentions of my own mind, or maybe I'm lying to myself and have just convinced myself I'm paranoid despite actually not caring, I literally would not know if this was the case or not
@@crypt5129 I have never related to a written statement more than this one lol
@@crypt5129 the mind being both for and against itself and neither for nor against itself and needing to know its is and not know it is seems to be an unavoidable head fuck for us.
Despite the strong reactions that morality can give rise to, the difference between good and evil isn’t always so easily defined. Or else the world would steadily be a better place
One precondition for your conclusion would be that all, or at least a substantial majority, of the individuals in that world would both be 'better', and willing to choose such that 'better' extended to their fellow humans. I find this a pleasant precondition to ponder but over 6-decades of life experience strongly suggests to me that this is nowhere near the case.
A lot of people falsely create the illusion of a "grey area" just so that they can justify their misdeeds.
What do you mean a “better” place?
The world is already a better place, and it will get better, as we go on.
A century ago, there was racial oppression which was lawfully accepted by society. People were dying of poverty and disease and pandemics. Serial killers were running amok. The number of people dying daily today is vastly lower than what it was a century ago. Its called evolution of society. Of course we always want better. And the situation will get better. We are not a barbaric species anymore. And we will continue striving towards betterment.
So look at the progress we have made.
@@RichardHarlosmaybe better is defined as self pleasure, which makes the statement true, as long as people define pleasure as something good and seek it. Which in my experience, almost everyone does.
Even compassion has become subjective. In that people assume that people who allow negative things to happen are not compassionate or that people who would rather help others understand and do for themselves are not compassionate. So many people and creatures have are and will suffer under the best of intentions.
Many can't learn from the experience of others, be it due to pride or stubborness. Being compassionate isn't sparing people the consequences of their own actions, but giving them the tools to overcome said consequences on their own.
No human is "good." Human "morality" can shift on a whim depending on the situation. We are survivalist by nature.
That's only true for the conformists and the selfish individuals. Which, admittedly, is a pretty sizeable chunk of humanity.
That's kind of the point. True morality doesn't belong to humanity in the first place.
Survivalism is something to be overcome, not something to just accept as " human nature".
No-one is fully good or evil. Seemingly evil people do kind things, & seemingly kind people do cruel things. There is no-one on this planet that hasn't caused harm & suffering to others. There's also no-one on this planet that hasn't touched someone else's heart in some way.
It's almost like we're complicated & can't be reduced down to such black & white thinking.
@@socialmoon Seemingly, and being evil are two different things.
Depends on how cruel it is. Minor cruelties wouldn't make one evil.
And that's fine. I don't mind harming people that deserve to be harmed. Justice demands that much, and is a white action.
Touching someone's heart doesn't make you not evil. Evil is something firmly rooted in the heart. Even evil has loved ones, but that doesn't make them, not evil.
Being complicated or not, one is defined by their moral spectrum. Being less black than another it's still black morality. Being less white than another, it's still white in the moral spectrum.
@@socialmoon I know I have touched the darkest part of many peoples hearts rofl .
"The central defect of 'the evil' is not the sin but the refusal to acknowledge it"
- M. Scott Peck
“People of the Lie”
The entitled narcissists, which world is full of, don't take criticism well...😉
it is the sin though.
@@danieicaznoch3588a big part of the point is that the sin continues as long as it can be kept hidden. When exposed, shame or guilt tends to abate or attenuate sinful behavior.
@@dddux They do not need criticism. They need 30 cm height shortening.
This perfectly describes where I've been with my mentality about the world since I was 30 y.o. It becomes much more difficult to be angry at others when you recognize the trail of destruction that has shaped them, and all of us. I'm currently learning how to safely navigate the world with this worldview, knowing how to set safe boundaries, how to do what must be done at times and allow myself to feel my own valid pain while acknowledging I'm not responsible for what happened to another person, but resolving to fix such issues in advance with how I lead my life and how I choose to help others.
This man explains things so well. We’re learning about John Rawls and the veil of ignorance and I wish my professor taught this way
I think people love to classify and judge themselves and others. No matter what. I don't know if I'm a good person or not. I just attempt to treat others the way I'd like to believe is respectful to them and myself. And when i make a mistake I apologize to everyone involved, including myself. And usually at some point I forgive myself and m o v e o n.
Very well said
The Golden Rule (a.k.a. treat other the way I'd like to be treated) has bitten me more than once. When I see someone who looks sad or is already crying, I keep my distance because when I'm sad, I prefer to be alone to process my feelings. Then I'm criticized for being cold-hearted. And/or deemed to be "strange or weird because I don't want to be hugged or "comforted", and just want to be alone.
But I don't mind being comforted by my dog!
Oh people LOVE to judge OTHERS, but never *themselves*... at this point in time, I wish more people were able to do just that.
@@dddux It's very easy to judge people, especially when I feel tired and drained after being around those people (two, actually, the one who liked to cry and the one who liked to throw tantrums).
Everyone has their pet hates. Mine are high-maintenance people. I think that the darkest him about me is that I don't forgive any person just because they tried to get too close. I want to have a barrier around me and other people. A canyon. An ocean. A world.
@@trishawalsh7832honestly? same. but I still console them because if I’m uncomfortable with sharing when it comes to myself, at least they know that I’m not a cold person and it’s just how I want to deal with myself. I guess this phrase is more toward ppl who think it’s okay to treat others badly and expect themselves to be treated like they’re on a pedestal. it sounds like you need to be kinder to yourself. it’s not your fault
I'm so lost in this life, but this channel seems to be making an effort to shed some light on being human. You've earned another subscriber, I look forward to going through your past videos and seeing your future ones.
I always give thanks for the cards I was dealt. They could always be better, but I am reminded daily, almost hourly, that my situation could be infinitely worse. I drink my glass of water, walk to my next destination, eat my meal, unplug my cell phone, and take a deep breath for the people breathing their last in hunger, pain, and agony, not just in some far off land but possibly down the street in an alley. At a hospital somewhere. The people dealing with much worse than I. Away from any comfort, or worse, in the care of the ones they love with nothing left they can do but to see them off. Be grateful, be kind, if enough people do it for long something will happen.
Right?
Yes I believe something will ❤
That's the issue with this life and the condition of it. No matter how much we are suffering and how bad our lives are we have to always think that our lives can always become infinitely worse and we have to be grateful that they are not; purely for survival and the sake of sanity. It's a paradox of sorts as our suffering is bad but we lessen it in some way as it could be worse. However at any moment it could become infinitely worse and yet we repeat this same process when we get to the next level of 'worse'. We have to constantly think about people who have it worse. An existential horror of sorts.
I just am. I try to do well, sometimes I'm successful, sometimes I'm not. I've hurt peoples emotions, made them cry, been considerably hurt by other. I've lamented the pain ive caused others and wonder if others lament the pain they cause me. I react, I consider, I love and straddle the gentle line of dislike and hate. I seek to be better, knowing it's what's important. I've been homeless, an addict an alcoholic and have over come all those things. I hust am another human, finding their way through the labyrinthian corridors of the life ive been born into and thrust into figuring out. The more I learn, I learn I know so little in reference to all knowledge out there. It inspires me to be more understanding and recognize the myriad differences and similiarities that lay within each of us. I don't consider myself a nice person, but I do my best to be authenticly kind. I fail sometimes, but that's the point. I don't strive for perfection, I just strive to be more accountable and better.
This nails my views so strongly.
My heart is full of compassion and love for every single person.
Their experience and their presence.
Even in an argument. Even when my blood boils and i want to physically harm somone. Deep down i still feel for their argument. I understand they are living their life doing what they can to survive and make it through.
Its why i dont blame people who do bad things.
Just like i dont blame the bee who stings. Or the dog which bites.
For its in their nature to do so.
But just the same its my nature to fight back.
I feel this understanding on a fundamental level. And im so happy to have finally find somthing that can put it into words.
Thank you for this video
I hadn’t realized how much I’ve integrated these thought experiments into my moral judgments until listening to the scenarios here. I’m a big proponent of Rawls’ theory of justice.
I’m a big proponent of these Bawls on ur chin
I inhale propane gas
@@Yinyankstank I’m guessing they couldn’t fit you into the clown car?
Rawl’s is the veil of ignorance right?
Emathy and compassion come from being mindful, and understanding that not one person has experienced the same things as you. It is our experiences that we share that make us who we are, and putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and trying to relate and understand their situation, and being supportive is what I strive to do for the people around me.
Understand that everyone struggles, everyone is a soldier fighting their inner demons in their internal battlefields.
Just about no-one seems to understand that empathy and compassion are two separate things. Empathy is purely emotional whereas compassion is about the mental attempt to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, regardless whether you like this person or not.
I remember just every day after being beaten down, willing myself to just take it, dont do anything, and just take it, dont fight back to be a good person. Now im trying hard to care for myself.
@Flux_40And then 30 years later you're the one with emotional problems while your bullies have a happy family.
You know what, I actually have to thank you for this. Watching this video and the comments, I finally came to defining the true essence of morality.
I don't usually make 3 consecutive comments but I'll make an exception this time. This one is for those who might find it useful.
---
Shadow work is not about exposing our shadows and succumbing to it.
Shadow work is to recognize our shadows but realizing it's not our true self.
It's okay to have shadows. It's fine to have bad, evil, or horrendous thoughts.
It's not fine if you identify with it.
You are neither the light shown on yourself nor the shadow it casts.
You are neither society's lighting, its prescription of morality and goodness.
Nor are you the shadow it casts within you that you "repress."
You are the genuine goodness within you free from outside influence and circumstances.
But most of all, you are you. And you are perfect.
Remember that.
Here's a thought exercise for you, morality is just a behaviour you adopt so your neighbours don't have a reason to kill you or your family. (In this exercise police do not exist. How long do you last in your given environment?)
I see myself as someone who tries to be a good person or strives towards it every day instead of someone who is already good, because if I just go ahead and say I’m “good” i’m sort of in the trap that i’m already there and that I don’t need to put in an effort. At the very least I might say i’m decent and law abiding, but I have to consistently work for higher virtues. It’s a journey, not so much a destination.
Sure I could say I’m “good” in a colloquial sense, but being truly good is a journey you must always be on the path for, way I see it. If someone asks me if I’m a good person my default response is “I try to be” or “I’m closer to it than I was 3/X years ago”
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Same with perfectionism
A rule I’ve lived by that my mom taught me is that there is no truly good or bad person. People can only make “good” or “bad” decisions. People can see the collective consequences of your actions and put a label on them, but the person making those decisions can vary greatly. That’s why I dislike calling someone a good or bad person. I don’t know the whole story. I don’t know what they’ve done. I don’t know what led them to make those decisions. I don’t know if even my decisions are morally correct and therefore something to compare them to. There’s often no true right or wrong, no good or bad. Really the best we can do is minimize suffering. I firmly believe that if we all tried being more empathetic towards one another then our society were drastically improved. Being kind to others has brought me amazing friends and pushed out toxic ones, and I believe that effect could be similar to what would happen with our society if more people were kinder. That’s just my thoughts on a very complex matter.
I don't think you are good or bad depending on what you've done, but what you're likely to do. If you're likely to commit a genocide, I'm comfortable calling you a bad person as you're willing to do that, but that doesn't mean you're entirely bad in every way and will never change, morality and human beings are much more complex than that. However, I'm not going to refrain from making this judgement because I don't know the full story, I just don't think this judgement should mean empathy should be denied to the person being judged
@@crypt5129 That's a good argument too! I do agree that people are able to change with certain circumstances and varying levels of effort. This whole topic is quite complex but I do believe that's a good way of looking at it.
This is a fairly simple video but I’d bet this is the most important perspective you’ll ever share. Thank you for making it.
I am truly mesmerized by the depth of your storytelling, navigating through profound philosophical concepts with such clarity. Your ability to weave intricate ideas into a narrative that is not only digestible but also deeply thought-provoking is genuinely admirable. Your explorations into moral luck, fairness, and moral knowledge offer a remarkable journey through ethical considerations that leave me contemplating long after your words have been spoken. Your insightful analysis are nothing short of inspiring, offering a tapestry of perspectives that challenge and invigorate my own thinking.
can't agree more, nice playing with words there tho 😉
Wow this sounds very artificial but okay
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 Artificial? Robert used way more advanced terminology than me. 😂 Did you even listen and comprehend what he was saying?
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 yah agree 😂🗿
Omg, its too hard to understand for a non-native-speaker
Too much guilt is not healthy. But we should always strive to be better human beings. We are created with love and surrounded by love even when we do not see it.
Love this channel and every single time I start to feel disillusioned with reality and depressed about tragic events, I always come back here and it reminds me of the impermanence of this experience. No matter how awesome or awful it's all temporary.. and not worth the worry.
Being a good person is an ongoing learning process. Learning about ourselves and others. Understanding that we are just one of several billion individuals and although many of us are alike, we’re all unique individuals.
Being a good person is also a responsibility and necessary part of our emotional, spiritual and physical well being that can affect and alter the outcome and future of mankind.
Never assume you’re a good person or your intentions were good, but just as important, never allow others to judge you based on their motives and manipulative actions.
I sing om mani padme hum for compassion for everyone, everything, everywhere.
May everyone be blessed
I cannot call myself a bad person, because it isn't true. Nor, can I call myself a better person than other people, because I can't project myself onto their experiences in a way which would solidify that idea. What I can call myself, is a stand up guy who does not let their self be lazy, treat people wrongly based on how they treat them, or denies the obvious wish to do the wrong thing for comfort. This makes me feel like a good person.....Thus....., I am one, and will continue to grow as one. Thoughts can be controlling of personal habit, but it is up to you to control your thoughts and where or what they lead to.
I didn't even think of myself
I was just excited of the thought of being able to create the best world I can create
Then you suddenly brought my situation into the mix and I thought
They sociaty I wish wasn't going to descriminate purposfuly anyone anyway, I can't influence what I will be, why should I care?
About moral luck:
I shun everyone the same, (less than most others would I believe) but wish for anyone to be better
My mind gravitates towards how the consequences could better the world the most on a larger scale
Punishement should only be given if it helps. It's important to know that this needs to translate into regulations which work on a larger scale
This will still lead to nonneeded suffering, but should minimise it
I don't claim to be moraly perfect, but trying to is something I value for myself.
I just keep repeating the 14:15 mark. Really trying to get back to when I had compassion for everyone in my life but I seem to have lost it since COVID I think.
I've been watching for a while and honestly you've outdone yourself. You referenced Rawls perfectly, gave light to Nagel (who is really one of the greatest philosophers who ever lived, who I _still_ disagree with on so many fundamental issues), and then brought the is/ought problem to public observation. This is next-level for your work, follow through with it.
Amazing video! What I took from it is how messed up the world is but at the same time helped me understand how to forgive the absurdity of it all
I'm not a good person. I'm not a bad person. I'm exactly the type of person I need to be in any given situation. If in that situation I'm deemed good or bad isn't up to me but to others observing me. If there are 100 people observing me there will be 100 judgments levied on how good or bad a person I appear to be, based on their own experiences, filters, expectations... none of their judgments on how good or bad a person I am have little to do with me and do not reflect the reality of who I am. I've no interest in being anyone's hero or villain.
I'm no philosopher, but a lot of the things you mentioned in this video I've believed for a really long time. About how everyone's actions are influenced by every prior circumstance in their life and their genetics, and how humans are just like anything else, in a seeming 'delusion' of moral superiority. I really enjoyed watching this, and am glad it was not just me with these thoughts!
Video spends 20 minutes explaining myriad of problems that are all solved by Determinism, and doesn't mention it once.!
@@DeterminismisFreedom That's the beauty of it.
There’s. A group of people called naturalistics and materialists these people at large such as Sam harrris have a defunct world view in which they do think moral superiority is them which is funny.
@@DeterminismisFreedom Do you believe just punishments are actually possible, or should exist?
@@wildfire9280 The question is not if they are possible. The question is that punishments are absolutely useless.
I think what destroys people is comparing themselves to other people.
If you only focus on your own goals, strengths, and unique aspects we all have,
you will appreciate yourself more. Also "success" is not so easily definable.
Some people may have alot of money but no morals and be horrible people.
Some may be poor but have a good heart and help others.
Some are blessed with good health, others suffer from bodily ailments.
So much of life is perspective, its all about being the best you can be and being happy with it.
Success is definitely. measure. It has nothing to do with your morals.
@DominantBtch
This is what the western world values. There is a basis to argue that success is how much money you have. I agree. Again, wisdom and morality does not have a price tag.
I am convinced our lives here are temporary, and out connection to physicality will mean nothing when our souls ascend to g-d and we will give an accounting of our actions In this world. A person could be physically and spiritually well off at the same time, which obviously is the best position to be in.
We can agree to disagree probably but, I am convinced by my experiences in my lifetime that there is nothing that matters except one's connection to g-d and the truth.
I can't agree more with you. That's one thing I was thinking about a lot lately. We want to be happy, we want a good life and as a result we chase money and other things. But if what we really wish is to be happy, then it's all about being good and the truth. It is all in the mindset. We don't need to become rich in order to be happy it's pretty much a decision and, most importantly, a way of life.
And by the way I'm a religious person
A final factor I believe is awareness, and stubbornness, whether you are aware of yourself doing what is arguably wrong, and your willingness to change it
People can absolutely recognize that they have certain habits (like getting riled up enough to cause fights) and work on that part of themselves. We are different because we have the intelligence to recognize patterns in our actions and emotions like that. In that situation, where they left that unchecked, yeah, they are to blame.
@@SigFigNewton Wow, is that a moral judgement on a person who might've only made this assessment because they were in a certain state of mind? This might be the only comment section the original poster ever took part in. And you're calling them a monster? You're a monster. /s
Get over yourself with making the exact assessment they did and taking a moral high ground already.
i'm not a bad or good person, i'm just a person
That's painful enough in itself. I know, because I've been on as well, since the day I was born. That's what they told me, at least.
"The only good human is a dead human."
I think that's from Planet of the Apes
No, we're bad.
What a creative way to say: "It is what it is"
Chance morality:
Don't be in bar fights. Just because you get lucky a few times and no one gets hurt doesn't mean you have a right to bar fights. Eventually, something can and will go wrong. Your choice to participate (driving home drunk) is what's important and not if the outcome is lucky (home safe) or bad (vehicular manslaughter).
Yeah I have to admit I've never felt the need to throw a punch at a complete stranger. I think that reflects poorly on each of the hypothetical assaulters.
Not doing so doesn't make me a 'good person'. I barely think at all about whether I'm a good person.
There is a thing called self-defense.
Have you ever been in a bar fight?
Or any fight where sh*t just happened? Would you prefer to be a punching bag and call yourself righteous for getting your *ss kicked?
And if someone protects you from harm, will you be grateful or judge them? I prefer peace as well, but that does not happen without a willingness to fight.
@@Erika.D84 I am 42 and proof you don't ever have to be in a bar fight. It's probably highly dependent on upbringing, culture and intelligence.
@FarmingUnclear
Ouch. 🙂
I apologize for coming in a bit strong last night.
That was the PTSD and insomnia talking.
For context, I am a 39 year old army vet.
But also half a DSM-5.
And a transwoman.
I had to fight for survival since I was 6.
Quite literally.
And whilst I definitely am a degenerate, I also love history, art, filosofy, and peace.
People can be very complicated animals.
But you' re right I guess, especially regarding the upbringing.
Thank you for making this video. This is more or less what I've been thinking for a while, but I'd never heard anyone come out and say it.
I refuse to call anyone, including myself, bad or good (especially good.) I view actions as harmful or helpful, and condemn harmful ones as deserving punishment though never to any extreme. People can and cannot change, but if we work together to weather the bad, we can work together to foster the good and hopefully make the world a more fair and comfortable world for everyone.
I think what matters most is intent. Of course consequences matter and we should try to prevent bad things from happening but the fact we can never know another person’s inner thoughts means we’re not truly in a position to judge someone else. I guess the big question is “do humans have real agency or are we just a result of nature?”
What if I intend to give you a million dollars, but I never do it, of course. Does that make me a good person?
@@dddux argument on whether giving money is "good" on itself aside, if you are so sure you will never do it then there was no real conscious intent. A lot of people do fall into this lack of self reflection "you aren't alone" "I'll be there for you", proceeds to not follow through in any way whatsoever.
If you genuinely *try* to, say for a more concise example you are a parent trying to see their children through and for that you need money, intent expresses itself into action but cannot control it's consequences. If you are such a parent, and working hard towards but never managed to quite do what you wanted then you still tried your best to do good and in my very subjective view, that aspect of you speaks well of your person.
If you "intend" to see your children through but go every night gambling and lose your earnings and more at some point there needs to be an accountability check, do I really intend to do this or do I just tell myself that I do to feel better about myself despite my actions not aligning with my intent?
Of course there's many problems with this. This is just my personal view. For the sake of the argument and for practical life I like to assume that we humans do have a degree of agency over our actions.
That's what differentiates say the example of the person with BPD to the person with non-pathological aggressive tendencies. (If I am honest, I condone neither), but the accountability someone is held to for me is proportionate to the agency they had over the situation. If you are an adult relatively sound of mind you understand risks and consequences. You understand harm and good. That comes with responsiblity.
I strongly disagree, as that leaves moral judgement entirely up to luck.@@omerelhassan9133
@@omerelhassan9133 I think intent matters for judgment. We treat people according to their actions. If someone murders but they’re in their mind they were doing something good they still need to be put in jail.
The mind is like a parent protecting an unassuming child from something horrific, creating lies and telling stories to make sense of the chaos around us no matter how hard we try to perceive it.
when i was a kid, i used to be religious and so i started to pray every day but i came to realisation that i'm a bad person for thinking about myself for even 1s during that. i stopped praying for my siblings and friends (i barely ever prayed for myself) and started to pray for "people who are very sad" and "people who have nothing". the irony is that i was still thinking of myself as a bad person and i was often crying about how bad of a person i am because e.g. i'm not just throwing my life away and go to africa and help other kids. i still can't tell who a "good person" actually is, but i realised where my mistake was. i was aiming too high, i aspired to be the "most good" you can possibly be, but you can ALWAYS be a better person, even if i did throw my life away and went to africa, i could still improve on that. it's a never-ending cycle. it's up to us to draw the line, for some just going to the church once a week is enough to make them good, for others even helping kids in africa is not enough
Y'know not all people who are suffering are Africans right?
@@glumacuemil you know what "e.g." means?
@@thatguy5233 look cuh, i'm not into that insane shi of white folk with their obsession of victimising african americans, but I've thought that you were referrin to Africa as the only major continent with "poor and sad" kids
I tell myself I'm a bad person enough as it is, then I see things like this in my feed 💀
same
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective: If you already know this then you're better off than not knowing. You've already improved.
@@redgrengrumbholdt2671 I was mostly making a joke about the title, but I tell myself I'm a bad person because of internalized negativity and childhood trauma. That's the subconscious part of me saying that. Consciously I know it's far more complicated than that, and the talking points of this video are actually concepts I've pondered for years because of that.
Hahahaha I know right?
What makes a person good or bad is not one's actions but rather what is in their heart.
It's one thing to have flaws. It's another to excuse and/or ignore it.
We may not always have complete control over our neural pathways, but we can choose which direction the river flows each and every moment.
Keep it completely unchecked and you'll find there's a limit to relying on suppression alone.
It's about works. From the fruits you shall know them. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. All that. I'd rather have the most vile and greedy person invent the cure for cancer to make money than have the world suffer a single communist.
Try telling that to a judge
This straight up dangerous advice. Take a more practical approach ,,you are what you do". Doesnt matter when you paint yourself a good guy, when all you do is bad
Title made me laugh because I love a good challenge!
And I will tell you… you are absolutely right. Under the right conditions I could be in a whole other situation.
I really find this topic interesting and your video on it is beyond outstanding. I’m blown away by your intelligence. ❤
I did find it interesting that he spent so much of the video talking about how we can’t go from “is” to “ought” regarding morality, but then concluded that we ought to have compassion and forgiveness. (I agree that those are virtues, I just found it ironic)
Life is ironic. Universe is ironic. Human consciousness is ironic.
Always has been.
(Perhaps.. hopes the next phase of evolution fix it or else we will sleep)
@@mingthan7028
Evolution doesn’t have a specific goal outside of ‘survive so you can pass on genes’, so I doubt it is going to change our consciousness anytime soon.
I would never be surprised at how bad of a person I am.
@roberttarlow4139 Nope, I'm my OWN ex-wife!
Me either. If I were judged by my thoughts and not my actions, I’d be friendless at best, and probably in an insane asylum. I just don’t act on the thoughts and emotions, and I’m careful not to share these dark thoughts with everyone. And so, I’ve managed to avoid any judgement of what’s going on in my mind. If only people knew how dark it was in there.
@@joleaneshmoleane8358
Have you considered counseling to help rid your mind of the alleged dark thoughts in there? 🌝
But what does it make something "good" or "bad"?Its just opinion.Based on our culture,our society,our surroundings,our survival,e.t.c. .What is good or bad is relative,does it exist without morality?
@@joleaneshmoleane8358thinking bad thoughts doesn't make you a bad person. Acting on them could make you a bad person, but again it depends. It's not black and white like a Hollywood movie. Lots of nuance in there.
"We are all the result of our experiences." I'm not sure where, if anywhere, I heard this, but I think about it a lot. People do not exist in a vacuum, we each have been effected by every little thing in our lives, which leads us to who we are in every moment. Its why we have sayings like 'walk a mile in their shoes' and 'follow the spirit of the law not the letter'. I want to believe that most humans know that, even if it's not something we actively think about very often. "Very little that is *real* is evil" and "No one wakes up planning to be the villain in their own story" are quotes that follow me through life, reminding me to consider what this video is calling 'moral luck'. Not just what a person did, but why they did it and how they arrived to be in this situation doing these things. More knowledge can only help me make sounder decisions.
This is an amazing reflection on many of the thoughts I've had about morality and moral culpability. In fact, I'd like to add something, but at the moment I can't think of any new insights to say that weren't in this video already, apart from this tip: all of the people at the bar fights should be judged and treated based on their conditions and probability of lashing out. In general, the overall compensation for an act should be determined by the probability and potential impact(s) of the consequences.
Nice try. 😆 Meditate, a lot, about what you've said, and: how it would be enforced - who would make the laws and how would it be enforced. When you finally realise how complex the system is, you will appreciate it more as it is.
@@dddux I know it'd be very difficult to implement, but I was just saying what the ideal would be. Maybe the laws around things can be refined a little bit, based on the statistics for the outcomes of all the different instances of something happening
@@SigFigNewton Nah
@@SigFigNewton Is minority report that thing where you specifically find marginalised groups and look for anything to report
@@SigFigNewton Unfortunately for you, I am not quite that silly.
Please provide a detailed scrutiny-durable case on why a brown person walking in your neighbourhood is harmful and what empirical wellbeings have or could have been compromised by the act.
Hitting bad people with a reality check and gaslighting good people into redefining "good person" to exclude themselves. This is truly an interesting video.
It's also just an astoundingly poor presentation of the philosophical thought experiments. It does a great job as an anti-advertisement for whatever educational material they are promoting.
From the title alone it seemed weak and lacking in nuance to me.@@YouthRightsRadical
@@evanblake5252 And in that regard, they at least managed to come up with a title that accurately represented the experience they were offering.
@@YouthRightsRadical Suppose so.
@@AfkAmbiance As it turns out, this video was also very forgettable, so I would have to rewatch it to know what exactly it was about. And based on my comments from seven months ago, that looks pretty unappealing.
10:50 we blame ourselves, because we are the only ones that can actually choose in-between good and bad choices while comprehending the consequences of our actions. If you have a physical difficulty in choosing the right decision, then your punishments are lessened.
I've done terrible things in my dreams, it has always made me wonder if I am really that trashy of a person.
Aren't we all
No, because trashy people don't exist
Having thoroughly perceived, examined, embraced, and integrated my shadow self I can say without a doubt that I know exactly what kind of person I am.
I can also say that there are no good people or bad people, there are only people and potential.
We are all saints, we are all devils, we all carry the potential to nurture life, we all carry the potential to destroy life.
Only when we have examined the reality of this potential, accepted this potential, and integrated this potential do we have the opportunity to experience to the fullest that which life has to offer.
Compassion is the sign of LOVE incarnated .
I would say that while we don't have 100% control over situations around us, we *can* nudge the probabilities of those situations into something more positive. If Larry hadn't decided to go to the bar to drink, knowing he has a temper problem exaserbated by alcohol, then he wouldn't have gotten into the fight that resulted in his arrest. Small decisions can alter large outcomes.
So we can push it further and ask "Why did he go to the bar?". He didn't choose to like drinking alcohol in social environments. He didn't choose to have a bad judgement and weak restraint. It's all things he was born with or taught by people around him that made him go to the bar that night.
So why are trauma and mental illnesses good excuses, but being born with bad temperament or taught wrong things in life aren't? Because people with mental illnesses generally can't control themselves, but there are people with bad temperament who can restrain themselves from going to a bar or becoming violent? Well, he wasn't able to restrain himself in this circumstance. How do you know it was his choice, and not a genuine inability to restrain himself, just like a mentally ill person?
@@med2904
Trauma and mental illness are not good excuses to act out in any way and neither is claiming you have poor judgement and restraint. I have poor restraint when it comes to buying things I like and usually spend way too much, but that's entirely my fault. Not some nebulous, cosmic force I have no control over.
@@med2904 This video sure likes to claim trauma and mental illness make excuses, but they don't. 90%+ of mental illnesses do in fact not render you "uncontrollable" and the law agrees quite strongly, as only in 1%~ of trials in history have even attempted an insanity plea, and only 25% of those have actually succeeded on the basis of an insanity plea. This is because any lawyer worth anything at all knows that "Well they just couldn't stop themselves!" is a terrible, near unprovable position, even with a defendant that has documented mental health complications.
That premise of the video is fallacious, that escaping moral consequence through claims of mental illness is actually commonplace at all. Borderline personality disorder does not render you "uncontrollable", if it did, it wouldn't be treatable, which it in fact is.
@@TheHazelnoot that is not the premise of the video, its just an example. Just think of it as the mentally ill woman got less jail time because she is a woman and the justice system favors women when sentencing, which works better as an example because it is actually realistic
You cannot be good or evil without other people, because it's not only their perception, but how your actions affect others that make you good or evil.
That being said, people overestimate how good they are perceived by others: If you think you go out of your way to make crazy sacrifices for other people without expecting anything in return, they may think you're a "decent person", at best.
And if you think you're maybe not a good person, they may think you're an absolute asshole, but they won't say it to your face.
I have a theory.
Everyone is the good guy in their own head.
It helps to live your life with a consciousness of how comfortable you might or might not be on your deathbed.and given the medical technologies on hand the likelihood of having to have that experience grows ever more likely with almost every new medical advance. I am glad having deathbed comfort discussions with my parents after we had watched a western one evening and the subject had cropped up in the movie. I was 15 at the time, now 72 and have spent 4 of the last 5 years in and out of a contest with an aggressive lymphoma and have spent a good deal of time in some very gloomy places in my mind but I am grateful for having had that discussion all those years ago. I haven’t gone through the intervening years constantly dwelling on how I was living my life, but aware of the potential.
"Everyone thinks themselves a good person, until given the chances to be truly Evil, free of consequence."
Been there. Done that. No thank you.
Is it weird that in the initial experiment, I would not think about the fact I wouldn’t know who I would be, the fact anyone would think that seems weird to me? I wouldn’t build the world based on how I would be effected at all. I’d build it thinking of how it would effect everyone but me. That’s just my natural way of thinking. The fact I would build it for my benefit seems completely alien to me.
You're so humble
I just want to build a better world. I don't want to have to take part in it.
Thank you, I was starting to wonder if it was just me that felt that way.
One day I had just decided I wanted to be the best person I could possibly be. I shower every night. And during ever shower, I always spend like 45 minutes to over an hour to think about things. I often think about things outside of the shower too, in my room. Im lonely, i have no friends or purpose so I have been having a lot of time to do it. I dont consider myself a philosopher but I do see the similarities now that I think about it.
I wont ever allow myself to avoid change that could make me a better person. Even if its something I really want to hold on to. If I can change myself for the better, Ill do it.
I know that its probbaly impossible to have no mental bias. But I dont let mental bias affect how I think. I start from a completely clean slate. I think about things from the ground up and separate fact from opinion.
Im glad im like this. I have realized SO MANY things.
One area ive thought about a bit is LGBT. There seems to be two sides. Lgbt supporters and Anti Lgbt. On both sides, there are extremists. Extremists on the LGBT side may be fighting for whats right. But the fact is that they are still fighting. And hate against hate doesnt fix anything.
Thats why I dont call myself a supporter of either. I call myself a supporter of Peace and Love. I understand that many of us are different and may not like lgbt people particularly. But i think REAL peace cant be achieved by trying to eradicate anyone with an opinion. I think we have to comprimise and respect eachother as much as possible for us to become ONE society again so that we can have peace and love ourselves no matter what.
Ive also realized just how closed-minded people are. Many "weird people" hate on WEIRDER people. This tells me that few people are ACTUALLY open minded. These weird people just set the bar lower than other people. For example, Im a person who enjoys wearing diapers mainly for comfort. But many lgbt and furry people hate me for it even though I am not trying to hurt anyone or negatively impact anyone is any other way. They simply hate me because im weirder than them.
Im not like that though. The last quote in this video really makes sense to me, its something I strive to do. I dont look at things only from a certain angle. I think about it from every angle I can. Even people who are attracted to animals and children arent necessarily BORN as a bad person AND they might not even grow up being a bad person. Its entirely possible that a person who is hypothetically born with a trait that makes them attracted to children can decide NEVER to actually do it to a child out of compassion for the children. Many people would disagree with me on this and say that being attracted to children is already bad enough. But people like this can be an example of bad luck and being born as someone not favoured by society who still wants to do the "right" thing.
Many people wouldnt care about people like that. But I do. When people like that come into existence, they dont deserve any less than anyone else in life. A solution to many of our problems might be to do a better job of teaching people compassion and open-mindedness when they are young so that they can think about things as effectively as possible with the intention of being a good person.
unfortunately this seems impossible. I dont mean to hate on religion or anything, of course, but religion might just be a roadblock in this process. The idea of religion seems to me to be to have faith in a certain god or gods who tell people how to live life. The problem with this is it makes people not think for themselves. Especially if what the god or gods are saying is something that negatively impacts someone's life. An example is the "being gay is a sin" thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with being sexually attracted to the same gender or sex. So the fact that people put faith into something that includes a line like this is really bad for people who are gay.
What is the solution?
This helps with a thought I've been having that every person is inherently selfish.
Some people do good things because it makes them feel good. Others do bad things because it makes them feel good. Both people are trying to achieve the same goal... to feel good.
And this goes in line with everything said in this video about a persons genetics and circumstances.
The problem with ignoring morality, is that we don't always know what is good for us, or what will ultimately make us happy & feel good.
Do you let a child eat nothing but candy? Wouldn't that make them happy (for the moment)? What is the long lasting effect?
Adults are also easily deceived by things that might make us feel good in the moment, but later will bring us misery.
The video mentions conscience, morality, religion, etc. but just dismisses it. However, studies have shown that people who follow these kind of truths tend to be happier & live longer.
We uphold morality because of it is the more beneficial thing in the long run if actions had no consequences most people including myself would do as they'd please
I had the very same thoughts. It's interesting.
Everyone is selfish, not everyone acts on their selfishness...
@@chrismcaulay7805 that's where morality and good vs bad comes in. But it can be quite a disadvantage for a person if they are born with a feeling that they need to hurt others to feel fulfilled vs a person who feels they need to help others to be fulfilled. Which is the point of the video.
This is pretty difficult to think about when your mom told you since you were a little child that you're a good person and that you're not capable of being bad, and the I have problems when I do something bad I find myself trying to convinving myself that mom didn't lie to me, feeling guilty because I'm not like mom thinks I am, and then start doing good things to keep her happy with my behavior
That is like the worst possible thing to teach a kid
My mom always told me every since I was a little girl to never think that you are better than anyone else,but, never think anyone else is better than you are either. It's something I have lived by all my life.
I’ve often thought about this almost like a reincarnation style. One thing that worries me is that there are people who don’t commit atrocities simply because they believe someone is in the sky watching them and will judge them when they die on where they will spend eternity. Yet it also comforts me knowing it’s that belief of being watched that’s stopping them from doing bad stuff
Without God, objectively speaking, nothing matters. There is no good or bad.
There are also people go out and harm others because they because they believe some Sky Folk™want them to, or so they're told. Even then, I would imagine some do it because they feel its the "right" thing, even if they may individualistically disagree -- and others will gladly do it because they just want to and are opportunists, those folks that have become so afraid that they lust for power and control... or maybe never were disabused from power and control early on and any accountability is just relatively that painful to them.
@@rycona9878 But that number pales in comparison to the amount of people that hurt others because they believe we are just animals and ultimately nothing matters.
Actually a belief in God an especially a belief in Jesus makes people better to their fellow humans because that is supposed to be the whole thing in the Christian faith, we are supposed to do as Jesus did, He caused no harm to anyone, helped people whenever He could and accepted people as they were. The problem is many people have done horrible things through history in the name of Christianity and messed it all up. They did a study that said that people who believe in a higher power are actually happier people.
‘Everyone is the villain in someone else’s story’
Sad but true
Not true
But stories can be either right or wrong.
We struggle with what morality is and how we can be fair, because buried beneath of what we claim to be true or not is the confusion that exist on what we truly need. Individually speaking, We are mostly unsure of what our needs are. That is one of the reason we struggle to come to terms to how to really be fair, and what is morally true.
Honestly, I don't care to know if I'm good or evil.
I consider myself decent, and I try to "lead by example" with everyone I interact with
There's no good without bad. Our 'goodness' is often contrasted by our ability to be 'bad', yet, two sides same coin. Or maybe no coin
Which is why you make it so the coin always lands on good.
In the words of the 12th Doctor:
“Hatred is always foolish. Love is always wise.”
I like that this channel gives me something to ponder. Consider this. You are a good person but your actions are bad. Example: I have a friend (yes it’s me) who had an emotionally difficult childhood. My friend doesn’t want others to experience the pain that they lived with. So when others come to them merely to vent, my friend gives unsolicited advice. At 71, my friend learned that doing that made her the a-hole. My friend thought that she was helping others to not make the same mistakes that they made. What my friend recently found out is that by giving that advice without being asked, she was essentially, telling that person that they are incapable of figuring out their way, their path in life. So, while my friend was trying to be a good person, she in fact, was being a bad person.
I personally feel that if I'm going to die either way, then my "goodness" is based of how much I've helped humankind as a whole, and sofar by that metric I'm an awful person.
Rest assured past me, you have changed for the better.
@@hamzamotara4304 glad hearing you are feeling more worthy now
@@Tactical_sandwich ... Nobody was supposed to notice this.
@@hamzamotara4304amazing, keep going
With the is-ought problem, instrumental convergence (various goals often sharing sub-goals) can probably be used to identify principles conducive to a myriad of goals. I doubt any specific set of principles would work for literally every goal, but there are probably sets of coherent principles for large classes of goals. Even if it doesn't lead to objective moral principles, people have goals (otherwise, a person would stop moving and not pursue anything while they waste away), so it would give human principles for pursuing their goals. We kind of already see this in ethics promoting achievement (valuing strength, nobility and power) and in moralities adverse to suffering (valuing meekness, humility and compassion).
You'd be surprise how little I think of myself. I am one of the worst people you'll ever meet, I don't know how my friends stand me.
I was like "This is starting to feel very Schopenhauer-y." and then you hit us with that great quote of his. Bravo.
Great minds think alike
Havent watched it yet, just wanted to comment that im aware that im a bad person just wanted to see why youtube recomanded me this
this is a very good take on this. bar fights are dumb. dont do them, somebody could get hurt.
The thing that has always struck me about the is/ought distinction is that morality, as with many cultural phenomena, can only exist when two or more people exist and interact (ignoring for the moment the (at least) moral-like behaviours that Frans de Waal points out in a great many species, including his favoured Chimps and Bonobos). If something relies on the perspective of two or more people to have any existence at all, it will always be subjective, by definition. So, you can speak about how it "is" - though this is also subjective - and about how it "ought" to be, by your own lights, and you might even be able to make a decent case by noting the preponderance of human preferences, but it will still be subjective.
Given this fact about morality, I'm not sure that I have a problem with affirming something axiomatic like the measure of the moral-ness of a given action being whether it adds to human flourishing or not.
That being said, I feel like we could co-opt something quite solipsistic to ground morality, and it takes us back to the Original Position and the fact that morality can only exist when two or more people interact. We end up with something somewhere between the Golden Rule and the Platinum Rule. The latter being from Karl Popper, and reads as 'Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.'
If we would want someone to treat us in a certain way, then it seems appropriate to treat them in that way until we discover that they do not want to be treated in that way. The reason this is ultimately appropriate is that we have no justification for us being treated differently, and such justification can be applied to them, so it's self-negating. This reminds me of the idea in counselling and psychology of Universal Positive Regard. If we treat others as ourselves and deviate from this only in line with their preferences (or discontinue contact if they would be treated in a way that we are not comfortable with), it seems like we could get a long way, but the basic underlying premise, nevertheless, is self-preservation.
I disagree with many of the hypothesis's listed. The basis of us all is our ability to choose. Knowing the consequences of actions and acting accordingly. In the bar fight... there never had to be a fight. When Larry or Tom chose to throw that first punch, they had already lost. This is what makes us all equal. We choose who we want to be. We as humans are not controlled by our emotions, but are guided by them.
I love this video. Some things I have already partly figured out through self-reflection but this is the first I have heard of "moral luck". Super interesting stuff!
I feel that compassion and forgiveness creates more harm than good unless balanced by intelligence and cynicism or at least rudimentary pattern recognition.
I think a lot of harm can come from a person trying to care and help without totally understanding the situation or not thinking through the consequences to intervening.
When we help someone we rob them of the ability to help themselves.
Not really, nobody can be helped if they don't wish to help themselves first. Even if you are the one who wanted to help someone, the person you are helping must also accept your help in order to be helped. This can only take a second and yet this should be acknowledged.
What do you mean cynicism? What part does cynicism play in this?
I wouldn't say I'm a bad person because I try to live a decent life. I don't like cheating, lying, gossiping, using foul language and I try to be a good person. I find contentment in knowing that in my religion I know God judges a person by their intentions than their actions. And that the world isn't a fair place. It can never be.
God doesn't care about foul language. He's got way bigger fucking fish to fry.
God cares very much about your intentions, but you still need to show that you're willing to follow through. Penance means very little if you don't show that you're willing to change for the better.
It's a pity your God didn't make a fair place for us to live in. Real dick move on his part. Not that I suspect I'd do much better in the blank room described in the opening, so I can be forgiving of whoever entered the settings with no clue how this would actually play out.
We have to take RESPONSIBILITY for the life we get here on earth and to work on ourselves, no matter what, to get the best version of ourself!
We all got a lot to carry, things we didn't want, we didn't choose, even ancestral trauma etc. And life is the gift to all of us to go through these challenges to grow, transform it and live the best life we can.
ive found that the best answer to all of these moral conundrums is pretty simple: "dont be a dick". regardless of any basis for morality, the fact remains that we all have to live together on this planet. the origin and "why" of morality may be subjective, but being human is entirely objective, and so we should all act accordingly. you dont have to, and history has shown us than there have been plenty of people who dont, but the reason for the "ought" is pretty simple: no one likes assholes.
That's fine. I don't want to be liked by the people I act like a dick towards.