No idea whatsoever! I thought he wanted to be the “Messiah” himself. Or some type of rock god with the Beach Boys affiliation- I think it was Dennis Wilson?
No! I had no idea. And I thought I knew a lot about this time in history. You can learn something new everyday. Really enjoyed listening to this on Patreon this morning.🎧
This is my first experience listening to Jon Atack and I'm extremely impressed with his breadth of knowledge in so many disparate subjects.......and he's very likeable, too. Such a soothing voice. I might listen to him when I need to fall asleep. 😁 Thanks for the great video!
L Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology was Crowley's protege, and they both had something to do with Trump's birth too He was born on Alister Crowley's birthday as the Moon Child on a Super Wolf Blood Moon It's also known as the Day of Osiris or day of the Pharoah marking the Monsoon season as in Storm Gods He paints himself Orange to represent Apollo, the Golden Dawn. Prince William was also born on the Summer Solstice, 7 days later. Remember Diana, for which Dianetics was named per the Greek Hecate, was of the opinion the whole thing was some kind of ritual Then there's Saville and Epstein and their coincidence with Tate, Peterson, Rogan, Barr, Bannon,etc Donald John Trump (King John the Great) Born to Fred Christ and Mary McKleod on a Super Wolf Blood Moon 700 days before the founding of israel on the day of the Pharaoh, 7 days before the Summer Solstice. He lived in 666ft Trump tower on the 66th floor in a 33,000 square foot Penthouse modelled after Versailles in Paris, built by Lious XIV the Sun King. He was inaugurated on the 100 year anniversary of the Bolsheviks aged 70 years, 7 months and 7 days old, moving the embassy to Jerusalem on israel's 70th anniversary. Baron is another name for Fuehrer, a Title bestowed by the Holy Roman Empire. Trump's Gay KGB mentor Roy Cohn ran the Boystown sex ring for Reagan and Bush Snr, Soros gave him $160 million in 2004 for bad loans on 666ft Trump Tower, where he lives in a penthouse modelled after Napoleon's Versailles on the 66th floor. Soros also gave Kushner $250 million to develop the rfid chips being used to track individual batches of Corona vaccine at 666 5th ave. The test kits too were patents belong to Rosschild. Clearly Epstein was working for Trump, who is related to Hillary, and both share charities started by Epstein at the same tax haven address 1209 Nth Orange st Delaware (Biden's seat) where 250k companies occupy the same building. Pelosi's father was a prominent member of the Chicago Mob. Trump's other mentor Norman Vincent Peale was a 33rd degree Master Mason, and his job as a real estate mogul makes Trump an Architect of sorts.
THe 2 wealthiest SCIENTOLOGISTS are the third and fifth largest donors to the Trump mechanism. As a victim of both, its becomeing more obvious just how these clowns are harming their vicitms, witnesses, jurors and such. And the remaining members of top Trumo donors? A virtual reality company (explaining the VR rape and extreme surveilance tactics) and even a recycling company> Nothing scientologists love more than access to your every move (think proxy stalking en mass), the ability to extort thier victims with home invasion, rape with filming and serial public harassment (also a well honed scientology mechanism). Scientologist also love love love to buy your trash. What a better way to control a narrative than with the victims very own receycling and trash> WAKE UP people. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!
This has to be one of the MOST INTERESTING INTERVIEWS I have ever seen/heard. Kudos to you for having this brilliant man on your show, and my compliments to your guest for his brilliance. I will go check him out and I will certainly keep on tuning into you, you darling boy! (I can say that because I'm 65)
I could listen to the two of you all night. I was 22 in 1969, so the news gave me enough background to follow along, and learn some new (to me) revelations. The cherry on top was bringing pop music (my one true love) into the conversation. I'll find Jon's channel, and binge - so glad you introduced me to him here!
Excellent uncovering of another layer of intrigue regarding the driving forces that contributed to Manson’s manipulations. A friend of mine was one of the Manson family’s unsolved murders. She moved to LA from upstate NY after she became a Scientologist and resided in a house with other Scientologists not far from headquarters in LA. She was stabbed many times and was left in a back alley with another young male Scientologist who suffered a similar fate. She had dated one of the Manson clan, either Beausoleil, Davis or Tex Watson, I can’t recall which. Definite connection there…..
This all is just blowing my mind! I feel like we’re getting a crap ton of info recently that is all connected- many things that maybe I suspected but hearing it all like this is just crazy!
I had heard years ago from someone who used to be in Scientology that Manson was involved with it, but then I read multiple places that it wasn't true. So I never knew what to believe. Thank you for the clarification.
I Googled Dianne Lake as I had never heard of her before. In one of the articles it says Manson had studied Scientology before he recruited his first family member soon after his release from prison. Are we to conclude that there are books on Scientology available in prison libraries? Books read by vulnerable, psychotic, evil, men, giving them tips on how to control their victims. If true, it’s madness. 31:27 He love bombed this poor, plain librarian using methods he picked up from his reading. Had he not had this method of control could he have become the charismatic leader, this weedy, physically unattractive man? How different could he have been without that knowledge?
I don’t know about prison libraries, but I can tell you that the Scientology book, Dianetics, was in my library in the 1980s & 1990s in a town of 50,000 in the Southern USA. I always meant to read it because there were always Dianetic commercials on tv; the book seemed so mysterious. Since Charles Manson was in prison in California & Scientology was big there at that time, I think it’s very likely that Dianetics was in the prison library. Some prison libraries are made up entirely of donated books; If the Scientology books were in my area, which was pro-Christian at that time, the Scientology peope would’ve made it a mission to get their books all over California back then & up until recently. Charles Manson was known to be a problem manipulator when he was a small child. He got a bunch of girls to beat up a boy Manson didn’t like at school when Manson was just 6-years-old so I don’t think we can blame Scientology for Manson’s manipulations. He was already practicing that at 6-years-old & defended the manipulation to the teacher when it happened. He had likely already done practice runs on getting other children to do things before that fight at 6. He would’ve actively searched for materials to help him manipulate people from the start.
I was an avid Science-Fi reader in the golden age of Asimov, Clarke, Bova, Bester, Heinlein, and all the John Campbell writers L. Ron Hubbard while fairly popular was not among the greats. He obviously was influenced by Sci-Fi themes, what with lizards, alien mother planet and all that jazz. Gradually it became what we now know. In the early days I don’t think people were too aware of what Scientology was and many libraries around the world must have had Dianetics on their shelves either thinking it was a science book or another Sci-Fi. It’s not so much mysterious as puzzling. How could intelligent people fall for its schtick? Millions did and still do. A lot of it is dangerous and it’s injunctions and instructions in the wrong hands could do much harm.
@@butoolkhan2715 I never actually read Dianetics because I always wanted to read something else more, & the last few times I had looked for it it was checked out & then reported missing. Honestly, I forgot all about it for years. The only reason I was interested in it at all was because if the constant tv commercials making it seem interesting & mysterious. Can you give a summary of the book? Was it sort of the Scientology Bible?
It was published in 1950. Seventy three years ago. What he wrote in that book and the way his organisation has evolved maybe not what he intended. Forgive me if I don’t remember it too well, it was a long time ago an I just couldn’t finish it. It was a mish mash of science, scientific speculation, Eastern mysticism, Freudian notes which is kind of weird as modern Scientology is dead set against all mental therapy and therapists. They believe they are all charlatans and Scientology will give you all the support you need. He advocated something he called auditing, which is still part of their ethos - to listen and absorb. It was all a little too hokey for me but some to this day believe it’s the best book ever, others that it clarified their life. Every movement no matter how crazy or evil will find SOME followers, they are just better at than most and with their billions they can advertise, subvert and undermine systems in innumerable countries. Some countries are waking up to the fact that they are NOT a religion and this should not have tax free status. Any organisation, I don’t which or from where, that controls people, makes them break and punish their families, shrouded in secrecy and persecuted anyone who dares to leave goes against every humane and democratic principles. Why should any outfit be above criticism and what gives them the right to go after those who criticise them? It’s all too arcane and secretive.
Me too, I hope he comes back on soon. What a treasure he is, especially for those of us who like the '60s, history, rocknroll, and learning about the nefarious underpinnings of our current civilization, so we can understand what the heck is going on.
I found this to be the most fascinating video you’ve done yet Andrew. I tip my hat off to you. I had no idea of the use of these other drugs I always assumed it was just lsd. And although I knew Manson had studied Scientology I didn’t realize it was to such a great extent but it certainty makes sense that he would gain the tools to control and manipulate people that way. Once again major props for such a fascinating and thorough discussion. Keep ‘em coming my friend
It was very deliberate. The cult threatened to sue and forced a retraction as early as 1971. I published in 1990 with no reaction (maybe David Miscavige hasn't heard of Manson...). Psychology Today withdrew the claim that he'd spent 150 hours receiving their 'processing' just a few weeks ago. They surely don't want to be positioned against Manson - or Danny Masterson for that matter.
I can highly recommend Jon Atacks channel. He is a treasure trove of information and a genuine pleasure to listen to. Thank you for this talk, very enjoyable and informative :)
Manson and Miscavage are both 5'2.......which is damn SHORT!!! Didn't know Manson was into scientology, but not shocked to hear it. Thanks for a great interview!!
Andrew, Awesome interview, Andrew Atack I didn't know some of this stuff about Manson! This was very interesting, Thank you both, more people need to talk about this. You bring up a good point, I think your right LRH and Charles Manson knew what they were doing, and in the end they both went crazy, Like you said Hubbard didn't know what was real anymore, and Manson, he most likely went crazy from his solitary confinement but he definitely wasn't all there many years before he died. With Miscavige's violence and ridiculous press releases, I don't think he's in touch with reality anymore either.
Manson was born vicious - he committed his first armed robberies as a teenager, raped another boy at knifepoint and was a pimp. I think he seriously believed he was Jesus reincarnated. Hubbard thought he was Maitreya - the Buddha who will take all humanity to nirvana. It didn't work out that way....
IF THIS GUY CALLS JOLLY WEST A FRIEND YOU CANT TRUST HIM ARE YOU KIDDING ME. THE SAME JOLLY WEST WHO EVALUATED JACK RUBY AND CAUSED HIM TO HAVE A PSYCHOTIC BREAK
Man, that's harsh! I never heard Terry Melchior make such a rash comment. Sure, David Crosby was supposed to be a pain in ass. But, so was Neil Young. He's getting off easy!
Terry was a Nancy boy candy (no pun intended) arse, if Terry Day wasn’t such an arrogant cream puff who thought nothing of making all sorts of promises to those beneath him, which was everyone else, it’s no coincidence that Terry put Manson on the promise initially regarding his songs, only then to pretend he never knew him and encouraged Dennis to poach one of the songs Manson had written to be only slightly changed ending up on a future beach boys album to boot, and you can bet your life Terry would have been paid a tribute when said song on that beach boys album started paying dividends. Manson was a maggot, a low life little prick, But so was Melcher, if Melcher had been a lot less arrogant and a bit more thoughtful in the way he treated people, especially Manson, instead of acting like Laurel Canyon royalty, snubbing and using people at his behest, there is a very good chance that Manson would never had had a thing about that Cielo Dr House , and Sharon and the others including he soon to be born son would have lived beyond the 1960’s. He’d have almost certainly decided to send Tex and Atkins and co elsewhere to do evil, but who knows, instead of multiple murders, maybe there would have been less victims as a result of that pathetic grand plan he was preaching to all those imbeciles he had hanging round him about the Panthers going to try and take over L.A and then the entire world so it was up to that smelly little weirdo to get the ball rolling and like some upside down world Sun Tzu who’s philosophies were doomed from the time he barked them at Those dunces who ended up doing exactly what he wanted them to even though it was ludicrous and I’m sure they knew in their hearts that they’d never get away with it, but to upset Charlie wasn’t an option in their heads. Atkins and her ilk would have made good Scientologists, but they’d have made much better followers of Jones Peoples temple.
I've read that Melcher excluded all of The Byrds except McGuinn from the Mr Tambourine Man sessions because he reckoned they couldn't play. Crosby does have a bit of a rep!
The free clinic Jon mentions at the beginning was actually funded by the Folger Foundation and run administratively by Abi Folger's mother. Manson's probation officer acted as a kind of liason between the correction services, the FBI and the free clinic, and it turns out he was a CIA plant all along, (Roger Smith) with the singular brief of being Manson's PO. When Charlie attended the clinic, he was often driving a red Ferrari that he'd borrowed from "the clinic lady's daughter's friend". (Bearing in mind this was way before the 'murders') The 'clinic lady's daughter' was Abi Folger, and the 'friend' was Sharon Tate (who owned a red Ferrari at the time) The whole 'Helter Skelter' narrative was a fiction put together by Bugliosi. Tom O'Niell's book uncovers some fun connections, but really, it's just another romp through the lore. He found the real narrative, and backed off more than once. The Scientology connection IS there. Charlie did go through programming in jail, and Scientology was involved, but it was carried out under the security umbrella of MKUltra. The whole Manson Show was about mind control, that's true. But people totally miss it's sheer scale. The trial was just the start of it. It was only when the arrests were made, the real psy-op began. The people running it had no idea how successful it would be, so they leaned into it. The brief was to see how to create and control a completely fictional narrative. "The Charlie Show".
Also I think Jon Atack, you failed to notice or point out that Dr Jolly West was proven to be CIAs own Black Sorcerer's (Goltlieb) right hand man. Vital information uncovered in Tom O'Neill's book. The parol skipping ability is a huge red flag that Manson and his family were assets. So scientology yes - your added information is very good - but it seems there is a whole lot more to Manson. Sure no direct connection to West, except they worked in the same building - but West was up to soo much badness throughout his life. The Elephant for a start was 1000 times overdose (did he read the label wrong?); the Jack Ruby interview- he loses his mind during, which is the goal West was set by Golieb. That's in the book. Manson achieved the goal of COINTELPRO and Chaos against the whole 60s hippy movement. The movement itself a great LSD experiment that West is seen observing there in the crash pad.
Thank you both! Had ALWAYS thought there was way more to the grotesque Manson murders & Scientology's perverse connection explains it. Godspeed to you & yours
We must never forget the disappearance of the Manson lawyer Ronald Hughes. These were indeed strange times. And also the sojourn of Bruce Davies in England circa 1968 🏛🌅
@@jonatack7693 I am definitely subscribing immediately, you will be one of the few people I have encountered on TH-cam, who is truly intelligent and extremely well read, some thing I absolutely appreciate.
I could listen to Mr Jon Atack for hours. I respect and appreciate his deep understanding of this topic and his ability to bring the disparate together into a whole along with a talent for teaching which allows me to understand more fully this entire - what does he call it - totalitarian control groups I think. He's fascinating to listen to.
You are most kind, thank you. I tend to use 'authoritarian' and at times use my friend Christian Szurko's 'extreme authoritarian sects'. I moved to 'authoritarian' in the recent edition of Opening Our Minds because authoritarianism seems to me the essential problem of humanity - it doesn't have to become 'total authoritarianism' (or totalitarianism - coined for Mussolini, I believe).
One of your BEST interviews- I could have listened all night. This is just amazing information- Jon is so knowledgeable- what a treasure to have on! Thank you!!
I so wish I was going to be awake for this! It’s 11:22pm now and I’m just going to sleep. 60 minutes Australia just used that same picture of Tom in an Extra Minutes video with Claire and Marc talking about their experiences with him in Scientology auditing and counselling. Claire told the story of when she had to fail him and DM overruled her and blamed the equipment 😂. I’ll look forward to this replay. Good Night Andrew 😴
@@jojowynne233 yep, that's right. The very few times I have been awake at that time, he's been on, but I can't stay awake that time of the day and usually crash back out until around 8 when it's all over, lol.
This is great. I’m just starting to read Chaos. I’m very curious as to how Mr. O’Neill managed to disregard this information. This was a wonderful conversation and Mr. Atack is also wonderful. I’m going to find his online work tonight Thank you Mr. Gold! Peace
Manson dabbled in Scientology in prison for a few months. That’s it. After a few weeks he asked what happens after you go clear? That’s it. Tom Oneil disregards it because there’s nothing there.
And one of the lawyers , Ronald Hughes, disappeared in 1970 up in the wilderness of Ventura county who represented Van Houten...is still not known if this was foul play or misadventure.. but these were strange days 🇺🇸🚔🇺🇸
BRILLIANT !!!!! Please Sir come again , Only 23mins in to this interview and just awesome this man has so much detailed information that one can really get their teeth into…. Completely interesting one of if not THE BEST GUEST to date!!
Having spent a lot of time in California my impression is that a lot of programs are repackaged Scientology, I don’t know to what extent since i was never in Scientology.
Jon, You don't mention Bruce Davis, a member of the family who is still in prison. He supposedly was on staff at the scientology place on Totenham Court Road, and also lived in a scientology berthing building on Beacon St. in L.A. where various staff of scientology lived, in the immediate neighborhood of LA org, AOLA, and CCLA. There were two young teen scientologists who were murdered in that neighborhood at that time, in a very Manson-like m.o. That is to say, they were found naked with multiple stab wounds. The girl victim was said to have known Bruce Davis, from the Beacon street boarding house. There was also a similar murder in London, when Bruce Davis was there, involving the husband of one of the manson girls, who had become an enemy of the family. Bruce was not directly involved with the Tate or LaBianca killings, presumably because he wasn't in L.A at the time. He was also present when one of the family supposedly killed himself playing russian roulette.
Thanks for this. Very useful. Yes, I do know about Bruce Davis but there are contradictions in the time line. Two other members of the Family had an involvement with Scientology. Davis's involvement is crucial. I hadn't heard about his time at Tottenham Court Rd. Do you have a timeline for his involvement? Any idea of the courses or 'auditing' that he did?
This was really interesting for someone who has followed that case some years now! It opens up a completely new view on the case for me.! Thank you so much for this.
He was never a Scientologist. He flirted with it in jail at one point, then completely abandoned it, even going out his way to avoid members of the cult in prison.
Loved this. Jon is so cool and very amiable. I was wondering Andrew if you could do a podcast on Jim Jones and his alleged association with the CIA, that he was an operative, apparently he learned all the mind control techniques, while he was in Brazil for about 2 years in the 1960's. I think there was a book by Mike Mieres, discussing Jonestown was a CIA medical experiment, the Peoples Temple group was seen targeted by the authorities as a Black subversive group. Thanks and best wishes...
This was an excellent interview, threads all pulled together. Great interviewing skills, steering an interviewee who has so much to say, but needs the little prompts to land the plane and reveal his layered research.
The first was published in 1968, one year after the Summer of Love and the second in 1971, two years after the Tate murders. These books were too late to have much effect on either the essential hippie movement or the Manson family.
Read a page in Dianetics back in the early 90s and threw it in the garbage. It felt schizophrenic, a mess of disorganized words that felt like...insanity.
A datura relative grows wild in American farmlands. We call it 'jimpson weed'. A guy I knew from high school chewed up some jimpson seeds, even knowing the dangers. A couple of hospital stays and several months later... he was never the same. ☹
Yeah. Two friends of mine (sisters) deliberately took daytura to trip. They started freaking out, their dad (a doctor) told them to throw up. One did, and got through it. The other couldn’t and was never the same.
Yeah, that stuff grows all over, where I'm from. I read a news article, years ago about three boys who ate some. One survived, barely with permanent blindness. Another has since been in and out of psychiatric hospitals and the third one died.
It was jimsonweed (not 'belladonna' as Manson and Watson both said). Useful to hear of the permanent effect. Incredible that most authors fail to understand the effect of this awful deleriant. It was banned by the Raj in India after a report continued to crimininalise alcohol and keep cannabis legal...
To start with, I'm 5 ft 1 in tall and 72 yo female. I was around, and young, when all of this was happening. I think I'm tall because my husband was 5 ft 6 in tall and the biggest and dearest person I ever knew. We were married for 43 years before Agent Orange finally won out. I am enjoying this interview, just found it today. I am a Christian and love Jesus Christ. If this gets erased, I still had my say. TY for this wonderful interview. I just subscribed to both of ya'll's sites. Yeap, I'm Southern to the bone and proud of it. My two biggest memories are of the Kennedy assassination, and yes, it was a conspiracy, and everybody knows Oswald was the biggest patsy of the 20th century. I met a Mooney and they tried to sell me a rose. I asked if they were a Mooney and when they said yes, I refused the rose. Oh what memories.
I'm very interested in the gang/group stalking. I'd love to hear about a victim who became a survivor. Brought thier perp to justice and how they did it.
Let me think about it. If I come up with something, I'll let you know. I do know many thriving survivors of authoritarian groups - including a 25 year former member of the MEK terrorist group.
Great interview, so much covered. I always though that the Mason murders might have had a different outcome if they had a pet guard dog. Apparently I'm not the only one
I watch a lot about cults and always really relate to the survivors in a way less extreme way. Ive never had it be externally validated before hearing the term “cultic relationship” so I’m really appreciative of this. Brings a lot of my (again much less severe) childhood into perspective. Thanks.
Definitely interested in his book after this interview! I will say, I’m actually surprised. Listening to him, how well spoken he is, and how knowledgeable he is, I thought he was maybe a psychologist focusing on cults and such. I appreciate all his knowledge and what was shared during this interview. I think it’s one of my faves!
I'm honored, thank you. I've spent forty years analyzing authoritarian groups - starting with a deep, deep dive into Scientology (resulting in my book Let's Sell These People a Piece of Blue Sky and many articles, papers and videos - including a five-day seminar in 2015 with 26 other speakers). My study has included religious cults from the Greek mystery cults of antiquity to contemporary terrorists. My focus is on authoritarianism - people who believe they should rule the world and those who believe them. I've explored that topic in Opening Our Minds and on my YT channel - jon atack, family and friends. If I can land a deal, I'll explain the precise steps taken by Manson to create his Family - a mixture of pimping techniques, Dale Carnegie, his Jesus complex, Scientology, LSD and a bizarre misinterpretation of the White Album.
I've never heard of this guy before but maybe I have read stuff by him if he has been into cults and any authoritarian things ? I'm gonna purposely look for his stuff cause I effing hate authoritarianism and I see it all around
I am so amazed. It’s a huge thing I just listened to. I am totally gob-smacked. I remember the story of Sharon Tate and the other people that were murdered. I was about 12 at the time but didn’t get the full gist of what happened. Of course my friends and I saw pictures of Manson. Those eyes and that smile - OH SHIT! Scary, but you couldn’t help looking at him. Glad when the paper got thrown. What a weird story and now Scientology is mentioned; it’s more weird than ever. I mean LRHubbard was the same but you turn away from him because he’s so vile. Thank you to Mr. Acker. By the way I heard Steve McQueen was supposed to be at the house where Sharon Tate was that night. Good podcast Andrew 🔹
It is an incredible story. I only came to it by accident - when Eric Hunley told me that Tom O'Neill had accused my late friend Jolly West of programming the Manson Family. The more I read, the more I realized that the connection with Scientology is very significant. And until now, Scientology has very effectively stopped that story from breaking. I hope to have a book ready in a few months time. Hadn't heard about McQueen. Do you have a source?
@@jonatack7693 No, I’m sorry, I cant remember. It was something I was reading that acknowledged he was invited to be there and couldn’t make it. It may have been google search on Sharon Tate. Or whoever owned the house they were in. I have a vague memory of it saying they were just new in the house, or maybe because her husband was away. I’m sorry. I remember The Steve McQueen part because he was a favourite of mine
@@jonatack7693 I do look forward to your book. I would recommend Tom's book for a second read, there is so much info in there. Respectfully there may be some cognitive dissonance if Jolly West was your friend. Good people do work for CIA and other agencies and will do all manor of thing in the call of duty. We all suffer cognitive dissonance, it's not a charge aimed solely at you, I have it too:) Keep up the good research.
I’m pretty sure the two of you are the only two people that can make the story of Charles Manson and Scientology calming lol. Your voices are so soothing.
my knowledge is limited, but I do believe that cm was one of the first public figures to have the "stare" that I now associate with m k ultra. Most school shooters had the same when first arrested.
Manson wasn't 5'7'', he was more like 5'3 (154 - 157 cm). Look at pictures where you see him walk next to average-sized cops when he goes to trial for instance.
Despite its many benefits, Wikipedia is not monitored. The Hollywood Reporter gives almost 5'7". His prison records should give an accurate figure. Don't have it yet.
Tom O Neill may have overlooked the scientology connection, but I trust his information about Lous Jollyon West. He was clearly involved with MK Ultra. Shocking how Jon Atack wants to portray him as some harmless guy. Also the story with the elephant is disturbing and not funny at all.
That is intensely strange. I love Milgram's idea of degrees of separation, so whenever I meet someone who knows someone notable, I realize that they've given me one degree of separation (a cousin of mine was at a party with Jimi Hendrix, though it was the sixties, so he can't remember anything about it). Through Anton Le Vey you have one degree of separation from Susan Atkins (Sadie Mae Glutz) who was one of the murderers and just two from Manson.
The man you should Interview is Nikolas Schreck! He’s ty authorities on Manson truth and knew him for over 30 years! He wrote the Manson file , seriously GREAT interview would be Nikolas Schreck ! On. Many subjects! I hope you have him on soon !
Took our money and never sent us the books. I believe Nicolas spent our money and never sent all of us the books. Is now 5+ years after we paid for them
Yes, but it's more nuanced. Jon Atack has covered it in depth and very recently discussed it comprehensively with Tony Ortega. It is well documented going back years by Eric Conley, Jeff Gwyn's biography on Manson 8,9 years ago. Manson followed hours while in prison for around 14 months, introduced by a cell mate in 1962. Manson was 27yrs.
@@bridgetsieger2261 Lanier Ramer spent 14 months teaching Manson and 'auditing' him. Manson says he read Scientology books in prison too. Scientology beliefs are a significant aspect of Manson's behavior.
I’m so glad I saved this video as Jon is brilliant! His knowledge across so many fields is incredible. You do out a lot of videos Andrew 😂 The Charles Manson and Scientology interaction was fascinating. You have to wonder if it lead Manson to be more assertive and dominant. The datura flower took me back to 1984 when 3 male classmates made a tea from it. It lasted a couple of days from memory and two of them were ok after it but one suffered permanent damage. My mate Geoff said he remembered looking at his Bruce Lee poster on his wall and Bruce was giving him the thumbs up and saying “heyyyy” I suppose like The Fonz 😂😂. I’ll have to remember to watch Jon’s videos first!
Our intelligent, compassionate Andrew.... hello! What a brilliant show. Thank you! You always invite the best guests. The fine detail that John shares... his research... had me fixed on each word the 2 of you discussed. So solidly based on common psychological principles (of human tendencies/behavior). I mean the principles of character development: inherently human. Negative & Positive. True about everyone. That behaviorally evolve & emerge...thro divergent experience. Potentially... either destructive or life-nurturing.
Did you know Manson was a Scientologist? Hit like, and let me know below!
No idea whatsoever! I thought he wanted to be the “Messiah” himself. Or some type of rock god with the Beach Boys affiliation- I think it was Dennis Wilson?
No! I had no idea. And I thought I knew a lot about this time in history. You can learn something new everyday. Really enjoyed listening to this on Patreon this morning.🎧
Good evening Andrew Never heard that at all , I’ll look forward to hearing his involvement.
No never heard that, and I've seen quite a few documentaries
I knew there was a connection between Manson and Sc-ogy but I didn’t think he was a full on member
Anyone who abused animals ,evil.poor innocent elephant.
Why does he laugh when telling about killing the elephant with LSD? There is NO humor in that.Scientology is HORRIBLE
I’d think because sometimes humans laugh and things that are sad and absurd. It’s a coping mechanism.
Think it's nerves maybe?
Black humor check it out.
@@erinelizabethmsw5137because it’s just such an absurd thing to say about someone, that is why he chuckled.
That wasn't Scientology. It was psychiatry.
This is my first experience listening to Jon Atack and I'm extremely impressed with his breadth of knowledge in so many disparate subjects.......and he's very likeable, too.
Such a soothing voice. I might listen to him when I need to fall asleep.
😁
Thanks for the great video!
I was not aware Manson studied Scientology. This is fascinating, thank you.
Thank you!
Dianetics
L Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology was Crowley's protege, and they both had something to do with Trump's birth too
He was born on Alister Crowley's birthday as the Moon Child on a Super Wolf Blood Moon
It's also known as the Day of Osiris or day of the Pharoah marking the Monsoon season as in Storm Gods
He paints himself Orange to represent Apollo, the Golden Dawn.
Prince William was also born on the Summer Solstice, 7 days later. Remember Diana, for which Dianetics was named per the Greek Hecate, was of the opinion the whole thing was some kind of ritual
Then there's Saville and Epstein and their coincidence with Tate, Peterson, Rogan, Barr, Bannon,etc
Donald John Trump (King John the Great) Born to Fred Christ and Mary McKleod on a Super Wolf Blood Moon 700 days before the founding of israel on the day of the Pharaoh, 7 days before the Summer Solstice.
He lived in 666ft Trump tower on the 66th floor in a 33,000 square foot Penthouse modelled after Versailles in Paris, built by Lious XIV the Sun King. He was inaugurated on the 100 year anniversary of the Bolsheviks aged 70 years, 7 months and 7 days old, moving the embassy to Jerusalem on israel's 70th anniversary. Baron is another name for Fuehrer, a Title bestowed by the Holy Roman Empire.
Trump's Gay KGB mentor Roy Cohn ran the Boystown sex ring for Reagan and Bush Snr, Soros gave him $160 million in 2004 for bad loans on 666ft Trump Tower, where he lives in a penthouse modelled after Napoleon's Versailles on the 66th floor. Soros also gave Kushner $250 million to develop the rfid chips being used to track individual batches of Corona vaccine at 666 5th ave. The test kits too were patents belong to Rosschild.
Clearly Epstein was working for Trump, who is related to Hillary, and both share charities started by Epstein at the same tax haven address 1209 Nth Orange st Delaware (Biden's seat) where 250k companies occupy the same building. Pelosi's father was a prominent member of the Chicago Mob.
Trump's other mentor Norman Vincent Peale was a 33rd degree Master Mason, and his job as a real estate mogul makes Trump an Architect of sorts.
THe 2 wealthiest SCIENTOLOGISTS are the third and fifth largest donors to the Trump mechanism. As a victim of both, its becomeing more obvious just how these clowns are harming their vicitms, witnesses, jurors and such. And the remaining members of top Trumo donors? A virtual reality company (explaining the VR rape and extreme surveilance tactics) and even a recycling company> Nothing scientologists love more than access to your every move (think proxy stalking en mass), the ability to extort thier victims with home invasion, rape with filming and serial public harassment (also a well honed scientology mechanism). Scientologist also love love love to buy your trash. What a better way to control a narrative than with the victims very own receycling and trash> WAKE UP people. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!
Wouldn’t he have been too poor?
This has to be one of the MOST INTERESTING INTERVIEWS I have ever seen/heard. Kudos to you for having this brilliant man on your show, and my compliments to your guest for his brilliance. I will go check him out and I will certainly keep on tuning into you, you darling boy! (I can say that because I'm 65)
I just found him on YT at: jon atack, family & friends
It looks intriguing.
How very kind, thank you!
Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar! The Thanks belongs to you and I appreciate your sharing.@@jonatack7693
I love your comment.
I could listen to the two of you all night. I was 22 in 1969, so the news gave me enough background to follow along, and learn some new (to me) revelations. The cherry on top was bringing pop music (my one true love) into the conversation. I'll find Jon's channel, and binge - so glad you introduced me to him here!
I just found him on YT at: jon atack, family & friends
It looks intriguing.
Enjoy your binge and please comment along the way! Thanks!
@@websurfer5772 Thanks!
Me too.
Excellent uncovering of another layer of intrigue regarding the driving forces that contributed to Manson’s manipulations.
A friend of mine was one of the Manson family’s unsolved murders. She moved to LA from upstate NY after she became a Scientologist and resided in a house with other Scientologists not far from headquarters in LA. She was stabbed many times and was left in a back alley with another young male Scientologist who suffered a similar fate. She had dated one of the Manson clan, either Beausoleil, Davis or Tex Watson, I can’t recall which. Definite connection there…..
Can you give a name and any other information (not necessarily through a comments section...)
This all is just blowing my mind! I feel like we’re getting a crap ton of info recently that is all connected- many things that maybe I suspected but hearing it all like this is just crazy!
@@jonatack7693I want to respect the family so I don’t want to give her name but you can find the incident in the epilogue of the book, Helter Skelter.
Vincent Bugliosi wasn’t exactly the stand up man he claimed to be
I had just Read another comment referring to these 2 unsolved murders 😮
I had heard years ago from someone who used to be in Scientology that Manson was involved with it, but then I read multiple places that it wasn't true. So I never knew what to believe. Thank you for the clarification.
I Googled Dianne Lake as I had never heard of her before. In one of the articles it says Manson had studied Scientology before he recruited his first family member soon after his release from prison. Are we to conclude that there are books on Scientology available in prison libraries? Books read by vulnerable, psychotic, evil, men, giving them tips on how to control their victims. If true, it’s madness. 31:27 He love bombed this poor, plain librarian using methods he picked up from his reading. Had he not had this method of control could he have become the charismatic leader, this weedy, physically unattractive man? How different could he have been without that knowledge?
Prison con, no diffrent.
I don’t know about prison libraries, but I can tell you that the Scientology book, Dianetics, was in my library in the 1980s & 1990s in a town of 50,000 in the Southern USA. I always meant to read it because there were always Dianetic commercials on tv; the book seemed so mysterious. Since Charles Manson was in prison in California & Scientology was big there at that time, I think it’s very likely that Dianetics was in the prison library. Some prison libraries are made up entirely of donated books; If the Scientology books were in my area, which was pro-Christian at that time, the Scientology peope would’ve made it a mission to get their books all over California back then & up until recently.
Charles Manson was known to be a problem manipulator when he was a small child. He got a bunch of girls to beat up a boy Manson didn’t like at school when Manson was just 6-years-old so I don’t think we can blame Scientology for Manson’s manipulations. He was already practicing that at 6-years-old & defended the manipulation to the teacher when it happened. He had likely already done practice runs on getting other children to do things before that fight at 6. He would’ve actively searched for materials to help him manipulate people from the start.
I was an avid Science-Fi reader in the golden age of Asimov, Clarke, Bova, Bester, Heinlein, and all the John Campbell writers L. Ron Hubbard while fairly popular was not among the greats. He obviously was influenced by Sci-Fi themes, what with lizards, alien mother planet and all that jazz. Gradually it became what we now know. In the early days I don’t think people were too aware of what Scientology was and many libraries around the world must have had Dianetics on their shelves either thinking it was a science book or another Sci-Fi. It’s not so much mysterious as puzzling. How could intelligent people fall for its schtick? Millions did and still do. A lot of it is dangerous and it’s injunctions and instructions in the wrong hands could do much harm.
@@butoolkhan2715 I never actually read Dianetics because I always wanted to read something else more, & the last few times I had looked for it it was checked out & then reported missing. Honestly, I forgot all about it for years. The only reason I was interested in it at all was because if the constant tv commercials making it seem interesting & mysterious. Can you give a summary of the book? Was it sort of the Scientology Bible?
It was published in 1950. Seventy three years ago. What he wrote in that book and the way his organisation has evolved maybe not what he intended. Forgive me if I don’t remember it too well, it was a long time ago an I just couldn’t finish it. It was a mish mash of science, scientific speculation, Eastern mysticism, Freudian notes which is kind of weird as modern Scientology is dead set against all mental therapy and therapists. They believe they are all charlatans and Scientology will give you all the support you need. He advocated something he called auditing, which is still part of their ethos - to listen and absorb. It was all a little too hokey for me but some to this day believe it’s the best book ever, others that it clarified their life. Every movement no matter how crazy or evil will find SOME followers, they are just better at than most and with their billions they can advertise, subvert and undermine systems in innumerable countries. Some countries are waking up to the fact that they are NOT a religion and this should not have tax free status. Any organisation, I don’t which or from where, that controls people, makes them break and punish their families, shrouded in secrecy and persecuted anyone who dares to leave goes against every humane and democratic principles. Why should any outfit be above criticism and what gives them the right to go after those who criticise them? It’s all too arcane and secretive.
I could listen to Jon Atack all day, really enjoy the way he explains things. Thanks for a great interview Andrew 👏
Me too, I hope he comes back on soon. What a treasure he is, especially for those of us who like the '60s, history, rocknroll, and learning about the nefarious underpinnings of our current civilization, so we can understand what the heck is going on.
Most encouraging, thank you!😊
@@websurfer5772 Appreciated!
I found this to be the most fascinating video you’ve done yet Andrew. I tip my hat off to you. I had no idea of the use of these other drugs I always assumed it was just lsd. And although I knew Manson had studied Scientology I didn’t realize it was to such a great extent but it certainty makes sense that he would gain the tools to control and manipulate people that way. Once again major props for such a fascinating and thorough discussion. Keep ‘em coming my friend
Cant help but think that scientologys involvement with manson being kept under wraps is not a coincidence
It was very deliberate. The cult threatened to sue and forced a retraction as early as 1971. I published in 1990 with no reaction (maybe David Miscavige hasn't heard of Manson...). Psychology Today withdrew the claim that he'd spent 150 hours receiving their 'processing' just a few weeks ago. They surely don't want to be positioned against Manson - or Danny Masterson for that matter.
I can highly recommend Jon Atacks channel. He is a treasure trove of information and a genuine pleasure to listen to. Thank you for this talk, very enjoyable and informative :)
Thanks
Thank you!
Definitely
Always love to hear him talk - great stories! Great guest !
Thanks! 🙂
Manson and Miscavage are both 5'2.......which is damn SHORT!!! Didn't know Manson was into scientology, but not shocked to hear it. Thanks for a great interview!!
Tom Cruise is really short too.
Oy! I'm 5ft 1in that doesn't make me a nutter or damn short .
Manson was just under 5’7”. Don’t believe everything you Google.
@@thomastrain7311 Tom Cruise is slightly under average height for someone his age.
@@FionaMarshall-b6b Presumably you’re a woman. Women are shorter than men.
Andrew, Awesome interview, Andrew Atack I didn't know some of this stuff about Manson! This was very interesting, Thank you both, more people need to talk about this. You bring up a good point, I think your right LRH and Charles Manson knew what they were doing, and in the end they both went crazy, Like you said Hubbard didn't know what was real anymore, and Manson, he most likely went crazy from his solitary confinement but he definitely wasn't all there many years before he died. With Miscavige's violence and ridiculous press releases, I don't think he's in touch with reality anymore either.
Manson was born vicious - he committed his first armed robberies as a teenager, raped another boy at knifepoint and was a pimp. I think he seriously believed he was Jesus reincarnated. Hubbard thought he was Maitreya - the Buddha who will take all humanity to nirvana. It didn't work out that way....
@jonatack7693 yes he about grew up in a prison system one way or another.
Love listening to Jon Atack! Great interview! 👍
IF THIS GUY CALLS JOLLY WEST A FRIEND YOU CANT TRUST HIM ARE YOU KIDDING ME. THE SAME JOLLY WEST WHO EVALUATED JACK RUBY AND CAUSED HIM TO HAVE A PSYCHOTIC BREAK
RIGHT?!
Terry Melcher, music producer, son of Doris Day, said David Crosby was one of the two most bothersome client he ever had, with Manson being the other.
Yes Laural Canyon..
Man, that's harsh! I never heard Terry Melchior make such a rash comment. Sure, David Crosby was supposed to be a pain in ass. But, so was Neil Young. He's getting off easy!
Terry was a Nancy boy candy (no pun intended) arse, if Terry Day wasn’t such an arrogant cream puff who thought nothing of making all sorts of promises to those beneath him, which was everyone else, it’s no coincidence that Terry put Manson on the promise initially regarding his songs, only then to pretend he never knew him and encouraged Dennis to poach one of the songs Manson had written to be only slightly changed ending up on a future beach boys album to boot, and you can bet your life Terry would have been paid a tribute when said song on that beach boys album started paying dividends.
Manson was a maggot, a low life little prick,
But so was Melcher, if Melcher had been a lot less arrogant and a bit more thoughtful in the way he treated people, especially Manson, instead of acting like Laurel Canyon royalty, snubbing and using people at his behest, there is a very good chance that Manson would never had had a thing about that Cielo Dr House , and Sharon and the others including he soon to be born son would have lived beyond the 1960’s.
He’d have almost certainly decided to send Tex and Atkins and co elsewhere to do evil, but who knows, instead of multiple murders, maybe there would have been less victims as a result of that pathetic grand plan he was preaching to all those imbeciles he had hanging round him about the Panthers going to try and take over L.A and then the entire world so it was up to that smelly little weirdo to get the ball rolling and like some upside down world Sun Tzu who’s philosophies were doomed from the time he barked them at Those dunces who ended up doing exactly what he wanted them to even though it was ludicrous and I’m sure they knew in their hearts that they’d never get away with it, but to upset Charlie wasn’t an option in their heads.
Atkins and her ilk would have made good Scientologists, but they’d have made much better followers of Jones Peoples temple.
I've read that Melcher excluded all of The Byrds except McGuinn from the Mr Tambourine Man sessions because he reckoned they couldn't play. Crosby does have a bit of a rep!
Melcher wouldn't of had shit were it not for mommy
The free clinic Jon mentions at the beginning was actually funded by the Folger Foundation and run administratively by Abi Folger's mother. Manson's probation officer acted as a kind of liason between the correction services, the FBI and the free clinic, and it turns out he was a CIA plant all along, (Roger Smith) with the singular brief of being Manson's PO. When Charlie attended the clinic, he was often driving a red Ferrari that he'd borrowed from "the clinic lady's daughter's friend". (Bearing in mind this was way before the 'murders') The 'clinic lady's daughter' was Abi Folger, and the 'friend' was Sharon Tate (who owned a red Ferrari at the time)
The whole 'Helter Skelter' narrative was a fiction put together by Bugliosi. Tom O'Niell's book uncovers some fun connections, but really, it's just another romp through the lore. He found the real narrative, and backed off more than once. The Scientology connection IS there. Charlie did go through programming in jail, and Scientology was involved, but it was carried out under the security umbrella of MKUltra. The whole Manson Show was about mind control, that's true. But people totally miss it's sheer scale. The trial was just the start of it. It was only when the arrests were made, the real psy-op began. The people running it had no idea how successful it would be, so they leaned into it. The brief was to see how to create and control a completely fictional narrative. "The Charlie Show".
Can you give me sources?
@@jonatack7693Legitimate sources.
Also I think Jon Atack, you failed to notice or point out that Dr Jolly West was proven to be CIAs own Black Sorcerer's (Goltlieb) right hand man.
Vital information uncovered in Tom O'Neill's book.
The parol skipping ability is a huge red flag that Manson and his family were assets.
So scientology yes - your added information is very good - but it seems there is a whole lot more to Manson.
Sure no direct connection to West, except they worked in the same building - but West was up to soo much badness throughout his life.
The Elephant for a start was 1000 times overdose (did he read the label wrong?); the Jack Ruby interview- he loses his mind during, which is the goal West was set by Golieb.
That's in the book.
Manson achieved the goal of COINTELPRO and Chaos against the whole 60s hippy movement.
The movement itself a great LSD experiment that West is seen observing there in the crash pad.
Manson was a boys town orphan
@@jonatack7693 his imagination
Incredible interview Andrew, very eye-opening, thank you to Jon Atack for sharing his experiences.
I think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is wonderful. I loved the ending. It exorcized my demons accumulated when I read Hester Skelter in High School.
I felt the same.
Thank you both !!!! God bless you Jon , big respect, sharing over here in europe Croatia
This was so much fun! Jon just might be my favorite guest you’ve had yet! Your personalities and graceful sarcasm really complement one another. 💖
Charley gave up on his Scientology course in prison. It was too crazy even for him.
Thank you both!
Had ALWAYS thought there was way more to the grotesque Manson murders & Scientology's perverse connection explains it.
Godspeed to you & yours
Thanks!🙂
Having lived through the times, albeit young at the time- this all tracks.
Love your interviews Andrew .
Great show guys! Excellent show, thankies Mr gold whom chooses great guests xx
Thanks!
We must never forget the disappearance of the Manson lawyer Ronald Hughes. These were indeed strange times. And also the sojourn of Bruce Davies in England circa 1968 🏛🌅
Absolutely brilliant interview, one of the best Andrew has done. Thank you so much, I enjoyed it immensely.
Wow! You are so kind, thanks! Plenty more at jon atack, family and friends.
@@jonatack7693 I am definitely subscribing immediately, you will be one of the few people I have encountered on TH-cam, who is truly intelligent and extremely well read, some thing I absolutely appreciate.
THIS IS BRILLIANT! Thanks Andrew for sharing this knowledgeable guest ! WOW 😮
He is not knowledgeable about Manson on everything he said.
Incredibly interesting. Another piece of the puzzle. Thanks to both of you.
Very sad, sick and disturbing 😕
This is criminal issue
I could listen to Mr Jon Atack for hours. I respect and appreciate his deep understanding of this topic and his ability to bring the disparate together into a whole along with a talent for teaching which allows me to understand more fully this entire - what does he call it - totalitarian control groups I think. He's fascinating to listen to.
You are most kind, thank you. I tend to use 'authoritarian' and at times use my friend Christian Szurko's 'extreme authoritarian sects'. I moved to 'authoritarian' in the recent edition of Opening Our Minds because authoritarianism seems to me the essential problem of humanity - it doesn't have to become 'total authoritarianism' (or totalitarianism - coined for Mussolini, I believe).
My group is different we really are anti authoritarian
Poor Elephant 🐘😞.
One of your BEST interviews- I could have listened all night. This is just amazing information- Jon is so knowledgeable- what a treasure to have on! Thank you!!
Thank you do much for this video
👋👋🏴🏴🏴🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
It sounds like Hubbard & Hitler had a lot in common - the stare, the urge to control everybody, the degrading, insulting behaviour at least.
It's because hubbard borrowed from many different cults and pagan practices, black magic etc as did the nazis in their day. History repeats
Always a pleasure to watch you, Little Brother, and John!
Thanks so much! There is much more of me at www.youtube.com/@jonatackfamilyfriends6176/videos
I so wish I was going to be awake for this! It’s 11:22pm now and I’m just going to sleep. 60 minutes Australia just used that same picture of Tom in an Extra Minutes video with Claire and Marc talking about their experiences with him in Scientology auditing and counselling. Claire told the story of when she had to fail him and DM overruled her and blamed the equipment 😂. I’ll look forward to this replay. Good Night Andrew 😴
Yes, I know the feeling I'm rarely awake for the lives, the time difference is a pain!
@@pixie3760 I wish I could go to sleep early and set an alarm but I think Andrew’s videos would come on about 4:30am here I’m guessing?
@@jojowynne233 yep, that's right. The very few times I have been awake at that time, he's been on, but I can't stay awake that time of the day and usually crash back out until around 8 when it's all over, lol.
@@pixie3760 good on ya for giving it a go. I reckon I’d struggle too and fall back to sleep. 😴
This is great. I’m just starting to read Chaos. I’m very curious as to how Mr. O’Neill managed to disregard this information. This was a wonderful conversation and Mr. Atack is also wonderful. I’m going to find his online work tonight Thank you Mr. Gold! Peace
Manson dabbled in Scientology in prison for a few months. That’s it. After a few weeks he asked what happens after you go clear? That’s it. Tom Oneil disregards it because there’s nothing there.
And one of the lawyers , Ronald Hughes, disappeared in 1970 up in the wilderness of Ventura county who represented Van Houten...is still not known if this was foul play or misadventure..
but these were strange days 🇺🇸🚔🇺🇸
Van Houten was just paroled.
They were, as The Doors said, Strange Days, indeed,
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Jon is a treasure.
BRILLIANT !!!!! Please Sir come again , Only 23mins in to this interview and just awesome this man has so much detailed information that one can really get their teeth into…. Completely interesting one of if not THE BEST GUEST to date!!
My friend was completely under L Ron Hubbard's spell. I miss her.
This was one of your most compelling podcasts. Thanks much.
Thanks!
Very interesting guest! Thank you Andrew!!!
Having spent a lot of time in California my impression is that a lot of programs are repackaged Scientology, I don’t know to what extent since i was never in Scientology.
Much enjoyed. Thank you both very much.❤❤ 42:45
Hi Andrew ♥
Another great interview.
Jon is so intelligent.
I didnt know that Manson studied Scientology.
Thank you Andrew xxx 💝
This guy is totally fascinating! LOVED this episode Andrew, thanks!
Jon, You don't mention Bruce Davis, a member of the family who is still in prison. He supposedly was on staff at the scientology place on Totenham Court Road, and also lived in a scientology berthing building on Beacon St. in L.A. where various staff of scientology lived, in the immediate neighborhood of LA org, AOLA, and CCLA. There were two young teen scientologists who were murdered in that neighborhood at that time, in a very Manson-like m.o. That is to say, they were found naked with multiple stab wounds. The girl victim was said to have known Bruce Davis, from the Beacon street boarding house. There was also a similar murder in London, when Bruce Davis was there, involving the husband of one of the manson girls, who had become an enemy of the family. Bruce was not directly involved with the Tate or LaBianca killings, presumably because he wasn't in L.A at the time. He was also present when one of the family supposedly killed himself playing russian roulette.
Are you talking about the "suicide" of Zero?
@@heyokaempath5802 That sounds right. The family called the police and told them the russian roulette/suicide story (though the gun was fully loaded).
Thanks for the name. Just confirmed by checking wiki, although I'll probably look a bit further
Some looking at Davis as possible Zodiac killer too, with aspects of their cult ideals and symbols.
Thanks for this. Very useful. Yes, I do know about Bruce Davis but there are contradictions in the time line. Two other members of the Family had an involvement with Scientology. Davis's involvement is crucial. I hadn't heard about his time at Tottenham Court Rd. Do you have a timeline for his involvement? Any idea of the courses or 'auditing' that he did?
This was really interesting for someone who has followed that case some years now! It opens up a completely new view on the case for me.! Thank you so much for this.
He was never a Scientologist. He flirted with it in jail at one point, then completely abandoned it, even going out his way to avoid members of the cult in prison.
Great interview! Love how the 2 of you both communicate.
Thanks!
Greatest line in the Sopranos, "Don't be giving me them Manson lamps!"
Too right!
Things went apeshit when Manson ran out of money. That makes complete sense. Thank you both for a brilliant discussion
Loved this. Jon is so cool and very amiable. I was wondering Andrew if you could do a podcast on Jim Jones and his alleged association with the CIA, that he was an operative, apparently he learned all the mind control techniques, while he was in Brazil for about 2 years in the 1960's. I think there was a book by Mike Mieres, discussing Jonestown was a CIA medical experiment, the Peoples Temple group was seen targeted by the authorities as a Black subversive group.
Thanks and best wishes...
Thank you, @niamhryan2973, for this info about Jim Jones. I had no clue
This was an excellent interview, threads all pulled together. Great interviewing skills, steering an interviewee who has so much to say, but needs the little prompts to land the plane and reveal his layered research.
What a fantastic and insightful interview 👏
What a fantastic and insightful comment. Thanks! 🙂
Fascinating!
The Carlos Casteneda books were out and being read by "that crowd" during the hippie era, and one of the main drugs used in that book was Jimson Weed
The first was published in 1968, one year after the Summer of Love and the second in 1971, two years after the Tate murders. These books were too late to have much effect on either the essential hippie movement or the Manson family.
Read a page in Dianetics back in the early 90s and threw it in the garbage. It felt schizophrenic, a mess of disorganized words that felt like...insanity.
I'm not surprised, I've heard something about Manson and Scoentology but not the story, thanks for having him tell it.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment.
Great interview Andrew❤
A datura relative grows wild in American farmlands. We call it 'jimpson weed'.
A guy I knew from high school chewed up some jimpson seeds, even knowing the dangers. A couple of hospital stays and several months later... he was never the same. ☹
Yeah. Two friends of mine (sisters) deliberately took daytura to trip. They started freaking out, their dad (a doctor) told them to throw up. One did, and got through it. The other couldn’t and was never the same.
Yeah, that stuff grows all over, where I'm from. I read a news article, years ago about three boys who ate some. One survived, barely with permanent blindness. Another has since been in and out of psychiatric hospitals and the third one died.
It was jimsonweed (not 'belladonna' as Manson and Watson both said). Useful to hear of the permanent effect. Incredible that most authors fail to understand the effect of this awful deleriant. It was banned by the Raj in India after a report continued to crimininalise alcohol and keep cannabis legal...
@@skindianu It makes the hallucinogens seem like childsplay. Incredibly, in the War on Drugs this awful substance has remained legal...
@@jonatack7693 what category of drugs does it fall under? Is it considered psychotropic?
I always hit like, thanks for the reminder!
To start with, I'm 5 ft 1 in tall and 72 yo female. I was around, and young, when all of this was happening. I think I'm tall because my husband was 5 ft 6 in tall and the biggest and dearest person I ever knew. We were married for 43 years before Agent Orange finally won out. I am enjoying this interview, just found it today. I am a Christian and love Jesus Christ. If this gets erased, I still had my say. TY for this wonderful interview. I just subscribed to both of ya'll's sites. Yeap, I'm Southern to the bone and proud of it. My two biggest memories are of the Kennedy assassination, and yes, it was a conspiracy, and everybody knows Oswald was the biggest patsy of the 20th century. I met a Mooney and they tried to sell me a rose. I asked if they were a Mooney and when they said yes, I refused the rose. Oh what memories.
and your point is ?
I'm very interested in the gang/group stalking. I'd love to hear about a victim who became a survivor. Brought thier perp to justice and how they did it.
Let me think about it. If I come up with something, I'll let you know. I do know many thriving survivors of authoritarian groups - including a 25 year former member of the MEK terrorist group.
I think it was on The Beach Boys album 20/20 called “Never learn not to love.”
Great interview, so much covered. I always though that the Mason murders might have had a different outcome if they had a pet guard dog. Apparently I'm not the only one
I think they needed a pack of dogs...
They probably would of shot the dog too
I watch a lot about cults and always really relate to the survivors in a way less extreme way. Ive never had it be externally validated before hearing the term “cultic relationship” so I’m really appreciative of this. Brings a lot of my (again much less severe) childhood into perspective. Thanks.
Definitely interested in his book after this interview! I will say, I’m actually surprised. Listening to him, how well spoken he is, and how knowledgeable he is, I thought he was maybe a psychologist focusing on cults and such. I appreciate all his knowledge and what was shared during this interview. I think it’s one of my faves!
I'm honored, thank you. I've spent forty years analyzing authoritarian groups - starting with a deep, deep dive into Scientology (resulting in my book Let's Sell These People a Piece of Blue Sky and many articles, papers and videos - including a five-day seminar in 2015 with 26 other speakers). My study has included religious cults from the Greek mystery cults of antiquity to contemporary terrorists. My focus is on authoritarianism - people who believe they should rule the world and those who believe them. I've explored that topic in Opening Our Minds and on my YT channel - jon atack, family and friends. If I can land a deal, I'll explain the precise steps taken by Manson to create his Family - a mixture of pimping techniques, Dale Carnegie, his Jesus complex, Scientology, LSD and a bizarre misinterpretation of the White Album.
I've never heard of this guy before but maybe I have read stuff by him if he has been into cults and any authoritarian things ? I'm gonna purposely look for his stuff cause I effing hate authoritarianism and I see it all around
This is such a great chat!
I am so amazed. It’s a huge thing I just listened to. I am totally gob-smacked.
I remember the story of Sharon Tate and the other people that were murdered. I was about 12 at the time but didn’t get the full gist of what happened. Of course my friends and I saw pictures of Manson. Those eyes and that smile - OH SHIT! Scary, but you couldn’t help looking at him. Glad when the paper got thrown.
What a weird story and now Scientology is mentioned; it’s more weird than ever. I mean LRHubbard was the same but you turn away from him because he’s so vile.
Thank you to Mr. Acker. By the way I heard Steve McQueen was supposed to be at the house where Sharon Tate was that night. Good podcast Andrew 🔹
It is an incredible story. I only came to it by accident - when Eric Hunley told me that Tom O'Neill had accused my late friend Jolly West of programming the Manson Family. The more I read, the more I realized that the connection with Scientology is very significant. And until now, Scientology has very effectively stopped that story from breaking. I hope to have a book ready in a few months time. Hadn't heard about McQueen. Do you have a source?
@@jonatack7693 No, I’m sorry, I cant remember. It was something I was reading that acknowledged he was invited to be there and couldn’t make it. It may have been google search on Sharon Tate. Or whoever owned the house they were in. I have a vague memory of it saying they were just new in the house, or maybe because her husband was away. I’m sorry.
I remember The Steve McQueen part because he was a favourite of mine
@@lesleyhibbert3338 I highly recommend Tom O'Neill's book Chaos as he digs so deep into the Manson event.
@@jonatack7693 I do look forward to your book.
I would recommend Tom's book for a second read, there is so much info in there.
Respectfully there may be some cognitive dissonance if Jolly West was your friend.
Good people do work for CIA and other agencies and will do all manor of thing in the call of duty.
We all suffer cognitive dissonance, it's not a charge aimed solely at you, I have it too:) Keep up the good research.
@@lesleyhibbert3338 Thanks for getting back to me.
This guy is brilliant
Andrew, if you ever saw the tv show "Monk," Randy Newman did the theme song.
The song on the Monk TV show is a perfect Obsessive Compulsive song, which is what Adrian Monk is: an investigator with OCD.
Fantastic interviews Andrew, I'm bingeing today! This one especially peaked my interest, with the sci-cult, manson mix.👍❤️
I’m pretty sure the two of you are the only two people that can make the story of Charles Manson and Scientology calming lol. Your voices are so soothing.
ASMR Manson...
Great show. Thank you!!
my knowledge is limited, but I do believe that cm was one of the first public figures to have the "stare" that I now associate with m k ultra. Most school shooters had the same when first arrested.
💯% on the💸
Bless this guys heart he’s got the confidence, money and awareness to manipulate these facts
Manson wasn't 5'7'', he was more like 5'3 (154 - 157 cm). Look at pictures where you see him walk next to average-sized cops when he goes to trial for instance.
Wikipedia says Manson was 5' 2"
@@ChunkyChewJu yes, it would be 157 cm, that's more like it.
Yes.... a Tiny man.
Despite its many benefits, Wikipedia is not monitored. The Hollywood Reporter gives almost 5'7". His prison records should give an accurate figure. Don't have it yet.
Whoa. Oompa loompa territory.
Anyone remember the Dyanetics Commercials in the 80's and 90's? Ron L. Hubbard
Tom O Neill may have overlooked the scientology connection, but I trust his information about Lous Jollyon West. He was clearly involved with MK Ultra. Shocking how Jon Atack wants to portray him as some harmless guy. Also the story with the elephant is disturbing and not funny at all.
I agree, the elephant story is sick, not at all funny. I'm shocked it wasn't edited out.
Outstanding. Never heard this angle before. Brilliant !!
Beep-beep! Beep-beep! Beep-beep!! Im so wrong for this, but it cracked me up!! 😂 Loved this video!
Tall English Drink of Water! New device. Excellent show, Gentlemen! 😺
Best book I've read on Manson has been CHAOS, by Tom O'Neill
SO Crazy- I worked at the Haight Clayton Free clinic. I also worked at Safeway and knew one of it's shoppers well- Anton Le Vey.
That is intensely strange. I love Milgram's idea of degrees of separation, so whenever I meet someone who knows someone notable, I realize that they've given me one degree of separation (a cousin of mine was at a party with Jimi Hendrix, though it was the sixties, so he can't remember anything about it). Through Anton Le Vey you have one degree of separation from Susan Atkins (Sadie Mae Glutz) who was one of the murderers and just two from Manson.
The man you should Interview is Nikolas Schreck! He’s ty authorities on Manson truth and knew him for over 30 years! He wrote the Manson file , seriously GREAT interview would be Nikolas Schreck ! On. Many subjects! I hope you have him on soon !
Took our money and never sent us the books. I believe Nicolas spent our money and never sent all of us the books. Is now 5+ years after we paid for them
Very interesting interview. Thank you.
Yes, but it's more nuanced. Jon Atack has covered it in depth and very recently discussed it comprehensively with Tony Ortega. It is well documented going back years by Eric Conley, Jeff Gwyn's biography on Manson 8,9 years ago. Manson followed hours while in prison for around 14 months, introduced by a cell mate in 1962. Manson was 27yrs.
Thank you Jon. Very informative
Could someone explain to me 1962?
Who was put in Charlie’s cell, before the murders?
I can’t find this information and maybe I missed it?
@@bridgetsieger2261 Lanier Ramer spent 14 months teaching Manson and 'auditing' him. Manson says he read Scientology books in prison too. Scientology beliefs are a significant aspect of Manson's behavior.
Absolutely fascinating guest!
Love you guys. Giggling, laughing is fun.🇬🇧👍❤🌬
I’m so glad I saved this video as Jon is brilliant! His knowledge across so many fields is incredible. You do out a lot of videos Andrew 😂
The Charles Manson and Scientology interaction was fascinating. You have to wonder if it lead Manson to be more assertive and dominant.
The datura flower took me back to 1984 when 3 male classmates made a tea from it. It lasted a couple of days from memory and two of them were ok after it but one suffered permanent damage. My mate Geoff said he remembered looking at his Bruce Lee poster on his wall and Bruce was giving him the thumbs up and saying “heyyyy” I suppose like The Fonz 😂😂.
I’ll have to remember to watch Jon’s videos first!
The cia has the best lsd so i heard
Our intelligent, compassionate Andrew.... hello!
What a brilliant show. Thank you! You always invite the best guests.
The fine detail that John shares... his research... had me fixed on each word the 2 of you discussed. So solidly based on common psychological principles (of human tendencies/behavior).
I mean the principles of character development: inherently human. Negative & Positive. True about everyone.
That behaviorally evolve & emerge...thro divergent experience. Potentially... either destructive or life-nurturing.
I did know he was involved. Wonder if they showed him how to control people. It was before the awful murders.