Hey Andrew! I know exactly how you could grow your channel to millions and avoid getting stranded by the need for following trends / finding exponentially interesting individuals. I think you should become the answer to one of the most egregious mistake of mankind... by allowing people from within the "culprit" to break the barriers. By all this I meant: help rationality become a new standard. I can give the parameters to it along with countless inherent principles by which we 1-abide intuitively (use every day regardless of our culture), 2-consolidate everything that is meant to grow (and discard what isn't), but for now... Here is my suggestion to you: Have two individuals come and share take on faith (mostly Islamic & Christian faith) through quotes from scripture. 2 positive influences and 2 negative influences. Islam hasn't shrunk much in the past few decades and seems to find more success within mindlessness than considerate individuals, but the door that needs to be opened is: "accepting that there are flaws". For centuries, Islamists (more than Christians, but Christians alike) keep stating that there are no flaws within holy scriptures. If a person can find flaws within its pages; that person can easily be considered more rational than not and potentially stands as "more influential" than other theists within their community. Your job would be simple and you would be known for a person that allows conversation and enables people to structure their thought processes. You have a lot of perspective from these interesting interviews. I'm sure your perspective could be shine through as you summarize what people say and how certain thoughts may affect (negatively) a person. In Islam, there is a LOT of black & white thinking (if you're not with us... I will let you finish that sentence). There are a Lot of these formulations in the Quran. The negative influences are endless, but the affiliation to natural drugs that are being induced from repetition creates a stronger "feeling" since the neurons develop a resistance to these chemicals... then they doubt and walk away then Baem a few weeks later they pray again because something bad happened and they feel his presence again. It becomes so "Grandiose" in their mind that you can't really replace the candy that they have in their hands. If pressed, they fall on their sympathetic nervous system and reject any/all logic for it counters their "stability"... they feel personally attacked. Please... try the new series/format. I ask nothing of you no credit nada. I healed from inhaling neurotoxins and - if I had been any bit of unstable / irrational from strange beliefs like this - I would be dead... after healing I got together with a Muslim virgin (30 years old) that I had been friends with for almost a decade... I had consistently tried to instigate a thought process and never went against any of the notions I had shared in the past... always trying to be as kind as possible and she grew fond of me despite being (diagnosed) NPD... the worst person on the spectrum. The influences she took as distraction/entertainment were associated with her take over all the things that she already believed (confirmation bias) and there is nothing that can change this except people that she can relate to... Religious people also developed one additional need that "Atheists" don't need at all... to be accepted without reserve. Its something irrational through which they make each other believe that they're "good" (thats why everyone accepts them initially and then they rationalize the rejection because "it was not meant to be"). Between us, this is unbelievably sad... as if they never had to work on themselves by this simple train of thought that they all share. You are the first to hear about this additional need (while we only need to be : fed, shelted and safe
I wish you'd get Jamie Dewolf on. That's L Ron's great grandson. He's actually quite a funny man as well. He has some great stories and takes on his psycho great grandad. Chilling stories as well.
Scientology has saved Cruise from drugs, alcohol, and others drugs that have killed many stars . However is still a cult religion, must be avoided if u can help it
Mike has apologized enough. He’s speaking out and helping others escape. We can’t hold people accountable forever. Save us all if no one gets a second chance to recover from a mistake.
Retired: An essential piece of accountability and change is repentance. Mike has not only apologized but he has turned his energy to helping other scientologist be free of the damage. Praise to Mike!
He's also paid a steep price! He lost his wife of many years and his children as well as constantly being harassed by people hired by Scientologists that continues to this day! They have called him a wife beater and molester and gotten his ex and children saying those things as well!
Well we can, but how is it we have so much trouble giving credit to beneficial actions and "redemption journeys" ? the thing about endoctrination is that they make you do things that you wouldn't if you were elsewhere with someone whos not manipulating you - so yeah accountability is the core, but if we acknowledge the actions, we have to acknowledge the pattern, and the moment they get out of this peculiar state of mind
People like Mike were indocternated as kids. It doesnt make it okay what he did, but my god it all he knew. Even if he wasnt doing what he was, and just came out and apoligized and went on with his life. He should get forgiven.
Great interview as always. I googled "Jon Atack" and the third listing was from a website called "STAND league" and said: "Jon Atack is a dishonest “deprogrammer” and unsavory hate blogger who has spread lies about the Scientology religion and Scientologists for over three ..." No doubt this is a Scientology hatchet job lol
It’s ironic how they teach people who join Scientology that psychology is the worst enemy and yet they use psychology techniques and knowledge at the fullest.😕.
@@TheNinnyfee was going to say just that. They are hypocrites and love to gaslight people. Oh and when they accuse you of what they are doing, it's a self confession.
As do other ideologies and older ones have killed millions for not swallowing the BS! hate one, hate them all or be a hypocrite. Seems cool these days to hate Tom cruise and scientology, I hate them all I don't discriminate : )
Fascinating about Charles Manson's connection with Scientology. I had never heard this. I was terrified as a child of Manson's stare, but now it makes sense.
I’ve heard stories for years about Manson “getting into” Scientology while in prison (though Criminon did not exist then). But no one seemed to be able to confirm or deny with certainty. That’s why this video has moved to the top of my list and I’m watching it now
When I was 12 or 13, I went with friends to the local state show ('fair' in US parlance). A tent was offering 'Free Personalty Tests'. Needless to say, we little girls went inside and completed the 'test'. We were all told that we had Personalty defects that could be corrected if we paid. Years later, I realised who the people running these so-called tests actually were.
If scientologists really and truly believe they're saving the world, can they provide any data on their progress? What specifically are they conned into thinking they're saving the world FROM and how's that going? Please ask a Scientologist that question, Andrew, if you get a chance.
They provide their own people with fake data. They do not feel they have anything to prove to the outside world, as we are irrelevant. They are saving the world from mankind. It’s all nonsense that, if you look at it too closely, does not add up and contradicts itself at many turns
Sadly, every year Miscavige gets up on stage and does a big deal about a bunch of pumped up statistics which means that most average Scilons can quote you a bunch of statistics which are just castles built on sand… Ans as for what they’re saving the world from? Oblivion! Blackness , forgetfulness continuation in a mental prison, or an electric trap! Believe me, these are not the sort of questions trip Scientologists they live for them!
It's basically the 101 of narcissistic abuse. You take people who are struggling and/or open and curious and looking for answers and make them feel wanted, safe, and important compared to other people, especially their loved ones. It's called "divide and conquer" and is so old that it's amazing it is still working. You also address their willingness to work on themselves and their sense of mission and exploit both. Experts on cults say that most people could be lured in with those techniques within 4 days. And I believe that, you just have to figure out what the deepest wish of a person is and give it to them in a way they don't find suspicious. That activates really powerful hormone reactions in the body, which then produces its own drugs and gets you hooked. I was victimized by narcs and later learned their patterns. Always protect yourself when you think someone will fulfill your wishes, especially when you have a bad time or feel desperate, or its "for free".
Mike Rinder has absolutely nothing more to apologize for. He has apologized. When he's had the opportunity, he's apologized individually to people he may have wronged, and many of them are now his friends. He has more than redeemed himself, far more. He's done as much as anyone alive to use his knowledge and experience to expose the abuses of the criminal Scientology cult, and he continues to do so.
I think the only necessary apologies are the face to face ones to people he directly harmed. It’s more than folks get from others who do them great personal harm in other ways. A (ONE) general apology for the rest should suffice. The true apology is making amends to society. His work speaking out is his apology to society, and his first rescue put paid to any societal wrong that may have needed righted. The rest has just been a blessing upon the individual Scn he has helped. Between him and them. And his shared wisdom will save more people than will ever be counted. And if Davey boy is ever prosecuted (or chased into real hiding), and/or the tax exemption is finally revoked, he will have the personal satisfaction of knowing he was instrumental in causing that downfall and potential freeing of all Scn being held - or at least allowing them to regain contact with their families
You can’t limit Jon to 1 hour! He’s truly brilliant and has deep knowledge on many things. Very interesting man if you can get him back again your audience will thank you😊❤
Sadly not live but edited. Jon Atack is so knowledgeable and kind in his reflections. Saying sorry is one step but carrying through into action demonstrates the apology. Mike Rinder is a shining example of action.
Fascinating and horrifying. One of the things that makes Andrew Gold so successful in these postings is that he LISTENS. He lets his guests speak, asks the right questions, never intrudes, then sits back with us and hears what these people have to say.
I've seen videos of Mike Rinder when he was in scientology and he was terrifying. His face was maniacal and his eyes looked so dark. I'd never want to run into him back then.. Great interview Andrew.
@@masaokakihara9316The cos says that those two vanfuls of Mike’s relatives “just happened” to be driving around Clearwater and coincidentally ran into Mike. Mike was waiting for his second wife in a parking lot not visible from the road, on the phone with a BBC reporter. YOU believe his brother, who lives in Australia, “just happened” to be with cos professional trolls, along with Mike’s ex wife, and daughter and coincidentally noticed Mike in a parking lot not visible from the street, as they drove past. if you don’t believe they have reason to lie, then I have a bridge to total freedom to sell you. The videos by the cos drones are referred to as “prisoner of war” tapes because they share the same traits. The speakers are scripted and the scripts are nonsensical.
@@MariadeJesusGutierrez Oh, it might be scripted and professionalized by the PR team. That's a given with COS Still stating core facts though. Do you know, that neither Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela or the Dalai Lama were/are only good people. To only name three well-known examples. You either die young, or see your heroes become the enemy
The Volunteer Ministers Handbook has a page dealing with how to deal with backpain. I as a physiotherapist in those days read it and could easily see that whoever had written it had never opened an anatomy book. The beginning of the end for me.
I've read all Jon's books, and listened to hundreds of his interviews of others, but this has to be one of the best to let Jon shine, and he shines. Brilliant interviewing. Brilliant comments here. I'm an ex, and I love comments by the smart commenters who listen to great interviews like this one. - ex Scientology lifer staffer, paperpusher in the cult 75 to 03 (finished my Scientology 27 year career by doing almost 7 years on the infamous Scientology "Rehabilitation Project Force", a truly despicable thought reform program where the staff do the "Truth Rundown" pseudo-therapy brainwashing on each other, they team up and do the quackery highest level Hubbard brainwashing in a DIY way on each other, "failing" this "program" I quit finally.)
The process of psychopathic narcissists, from start to end, with their victims. Then the fallout of the smear campaign and mental/physical health outcomes from being involved/sucked into relationships of these individules. How the victim can recover/do not recover. Life reputation ruined permanently, etc..
I agree with Jon, there are people who don’t agree with their parents’ opinion and even are estranged so you couldn’t judge people according to their relatives.
Really enjoyed that and you always learn so much from Jon! Love the light hearted humorous way that information is given! Well done Andrew for a great interview!
Jon is so interesting. I totally agree with him about our authoritarian school systems which subject both students and staff to bullying to achieve compliance and conformity.
I believe "blue sky" originally refered to the selling of worthless land in Montana. "Homesteads" featuring the blue, blue skies of Montana. You soon learn that this land is virtually barren, save for some trees, with no toads or utilities such as water and electricity. Some were in conservation zones, so no building allowed.
What an amazing show - Jon Atack is so easy to listen to with a veritable planet sized brain that houses so much information that it boggles my pea sized one! Very interesting - please have him on again.
Worst thing Scientology has done? I would say attempting to overthrow governments and take over countries. South Africa, Rhodesia, Morocco. Could be a good interview topic Andrew!
ukraine. putin chucked 'em out and the european human rights airy-fairies told him that people had a right to follow what 'religion' they chose. russia responded by shutting down dianetics clinics in moscow. so they leave it a while - a couple of decades so that folk won't make the link in events. who is zelensky? the ukranian flag is half sky!
Hello Andrew, I always look forward to your next topic??!! I truly love your platform.....I only wish there were more creators like you. I like your curiosity; especially with the cult Scientology. With myriad guest panelists - opening our eyes, educating & spreading awareness with FACTS from ex- members conveying their nightmare belief systems!I would love for you to interview The Dark Journalist! I know that you're a researcher- he has a TH-cam channel. Andrew I like how you're transparent; honest with integrity! Congratulations with your growing channel! I wish you continued success & to see you produce more documentaries!
This one is amazing. I have found enough research material to keep my brain busy for probably a year and just things I want to read or watch just from this conversation. Well done.
Wow I can't understand why in Switzerland they are allowed to have their church! It's beyond criminal what they are doing 😮 glad I was never envolved with them😢
i'm in a band and last year we recorded a song about scientology called 'Subversion'... soon to be available to the masses - but only if you level up with cash deposits 😂😂😂 Respect & Peace ☘
This is a great video with lots of info that I hadn't heard until now. It amazes me that people will buy into this. I know that there's no way I would be able to go along with that amount of bullshit. I've heard it said that that's not true that I could have been taken in by this or something similar but I really don't think so. I'm just too stubborn when I feel like something isn't quite believable. I might be wrong but I really don't think so.
I remember watching a program on the experiments that Jon talks about! I was shocked, but I'm even more so to know that it in most ways are utilized by Scientology!
I always enjoy Jon's interviews, I find some ex-Scn focus on Miscavige (deservingly so) but Hubbard created the "tech" & wrote the policies & encouraged the abuses. So it's good to hear some focus on LRH who created this cult.
I completely understand what your saying. However it's the few channels like yours and 10 to life that function with integrity and true desire to aid in cases and get these stories out there. You don't have to stoop to their level. I don't like the drama either! I will support you no matter what you decide, but I think your voice is very important. 😊
I was va short period in scientology at the Sea ORG in Copenhagen in 1984. I did the courses to become a staff member. I remember I was in staff product 0 and the courses of that, and then on to product 1 and product 2. I don,t know if they do that today. I was recruited on the streets in Copenhagen. I lived in Copenhagen at that time and was looking for a job and suddenly this guy came up to me and told me I could get a job in scientology. I was only 4 months inside and then I went out of it with no hassles.
I have become a Gold addict! My cult of youth was Catholicism. Baptized Catholic AND Methodist at birth. Parents were different faiths and Catholicism won the day most of the time. I am now an atheist. More of a energy/reincarnation kind of person. I think I register in mind more Catholic reflexes I.e. the sign of the cross, but don’t believe the faith. It’s a hard one to escape. Took me YEARS - I’m 72 and let go of the faith 30 yrs ago. They aren’t missing me I’m sure as I am a married lesbian, together 39 years. Keep up this important work and continue to educate us all. ❤️👏🏻🏳️🌈👍🏻
Fascinating and horrifying, in equal measure. Wish I hadn't heard about the puppies, though. Things like that torment my mind forever, it seems. TH-cam bans such comparatively mild content and allows this. Strange! Anyway, just subscribed .
What a brilliant man, i dont know how you found Jon but, well done..one of your best interviews. Im gonna buy Jon's book as soon as i can. I knew Mike was an impath, at times he will lean into it when hes talking with someone and i can see him fighting the urge to take on others emotions, at other times. Mikes a good man, anyone who has seen the good he has done, always hold him in high regard.
When I girst heard of this cult I went and watched the congressal hearing when his son was called in. Being curious i devoured Chris Shelton videos, and how he survived his life in the SeaOrg! Now I'm listening to Mike Rinders account and how crazy the indoctrination is. To Jon's is another kick in the cults tower, and to hear that Manson had some dealings with the cult so many yrs ago I can understand how he was able to manipulate followers! I liken Scientology to one of the extreme Islamic groups, which stems out of the evilness of the mind! Oh and the blue sky reminds me of the swamp salesman or a piece of the moon people!
This was so short!!! Nevertheless, incredibly interesting. I know some of that bullshit(TR's, i.e."maniacal stare"😂 and much more) because in 2002. I went to a "Narconon"- sadly, I went down the path of addiction. It's connected deeply with Scientology and uses some of their practices. One good thing is that I'm from Croatia and we're quite the opposite of Americans. We're tough to manage😂 and it's even more harder to indoctrinate and brain wash us. The program itself is based on something that I preferred, mental work, unlike other communes, the religious ones. Religion, i.e. praying for hours, doing mindless manual work like picking the overgrown grass, painting the walls(for the fifth time in a year😆) is definitely not something that would ever help me. But this sh*t did. I've "taken" the parts that I perceived as useful and those things helped me cope with the"state of being clean". Duh, it's a long story, but it was interesting to hear about some of that practices again. I'd love if you'd have him again. Although, every person you've ever talked to, in your podcast, was fantastic. I really appreciate your efforts, dedication, curiosity(I'm a nosey person...I like to know everything about...everything😏). And thank you for being such a decent, wonderful human being. Greetings from Croatia
I can understand brainwashing to a certain degree from growing up in a military family. I always wanted to be a soldier and when I became a soldier and made it home alive I always felt guilty that I didn't die for my country like so many others. I still feel that way today. I've been working on it now for many years and I think I've made some progress, but I don't think it will ever completely go away.
Not sure if this helps in some way....during our many horrific bushfires in Aust, I'd spoken and listened to people whose houses were untouched by the fires when their surrounding neighbours homes and possessions were leveled to mere ash. Some felt deep guilt they were 'spared' the horrors of losing everything. I knew 2 families who moved to another state to escape facing their neighbours watching them rebuild their homes, yet never recouping their family personal, meaningful possessions. Others who lost nothing or little, helped neighbours rebuild and became solid friends. Maybe....it is having a deep empathy for others rather than feeling a guilt??? Life is often unfair, yet it is a journey we travel. Hope one day you can turn the thoughts around. Xxxx
When i was 20 a group of young people attempted to recruit me into scientology but thankfully I didn't buy into it. And that was almost 50 years ago! I still have the Dianetics book...somewhere :o
Goodmorning Andrew, yes for sure I wil support your gast , much enjoyed the talk very very interesting with some facts I wasn't aware, so altogether great.kind regards
Jon Atack is a legend! I know that you said former Order member Amanda Rae never got back to you but I did see her talking to someone who was on your channel so I’m still hoping 🤞
Who is selling stars these days? My daughter bought one for my grandson her cousin when he was born, I just laughed, didn’t think she would be taken in like that,
In the nineties Sci was very aggressive and bullying people on the street. Hollywood Boulevard, guys on bicycles with walky-talkies. I was there, occasionally doing my sing-along-Scientology Songs. Aggressively paranoid.
!!!!woh!!!! This describes thought broadcasting which happens in schizophrenia. This means you know that likely the person who thought up that paranoid bs was likely both psychotic and schizophrenic or schizoaffective.
I would be ashamed if I gave millions of dollars to an organization. What about the people that don't have show business jobs to afford to pay them big money?
I’m sorry I can’t watch it all now but will finish later. How much has Tom Cruise given or is he one who gets back? Thank you for such an interesting blog.
A small aside. I'm glad Atack mentioned the incident where Noam Chomsky took so much flack (including being called an anti-Semite) for protesting the prison sentence of the French holocaust denier ... when all that Chomsky was doing was standing up for that very American ideal, freedom of speech. Chomsky thought that the man's views were execrable, but, as many people have pointed out, freedom of speech doesn't really mean anything if you only give it to people whose views you agree with. On the other hand, I can certainly understand why France, with its history of the Vichy government, and especially Germany, for obvious reasons, want to make sure that Nazism and Fascism and holocausts never happen again, and take extreme measures to ensure that they won't. On topic, i congratulate and thank Andrew Gold for having Atack (whom I did not know about previously) on this show, and Atack himself for all the good work and clear (no pun intended) thinking he has obviously done.
What could this be? And who shall I talk to next!?
Hey Andrew! I know exactly how you could grow your channel to millions and avoid getting stranded by the need for following trends / finding exponentially interesting individuals. I think you should become the answer to one of the most egregious mistake of mankind... by allowing people from within the "culprit" to break the barriers. By all this I meant: help rationality become a new standard. I can give the parameters to it along with countless inherent principles by which we 1-abide intuitively (use every day regardless of our culture), 2-consolidate everything that is meant to grow (and discard what isn't), but for now... Here is my suggestion to you: Have two individuals come and share take on faith (mostly Islamic & Christian faith) through quotes from scripture. 2 positive influences and 2 negative influences. Islam hasn't shrunk much in the past few decades and seems to find more success within mindlessness than considerate individuals, but the door that needs to be opened is: "accepting that there are flaws". For centuries, Islamists (more than Christians, but Christians alike) keep stating that there are no flaws within holy scriptures. If a person can find flaws within its pages; that person can easily be considered more rational than not and potentially stands as "more influential" than other theists within their community. Your job would be simple and you would be known for a person that allows conversation and enables people to structure their thought processes. You have a lot of perspective from these interesting interviews. I'm sure your perspective could be shine through as you summarize what people say and how certain thoughts may affect (negatively) a person. In Islam, there is a LOT of black & white thinking (if you're not with us... I will let you finish that sentence). There are a Lot of these formulations in the Quran. The negative influences are endless, but the affiliation to natural drugs that are being induced from repetition creates a stronger "feeling" since the neurons develop a resistance to these chemicals... then they doubt and walk away then Baem a few weeks later they pray again because something bad happened and they feel his presence again. It becomes so "Grandiose" in their mind that you can't really replace the candy that they have in their hands. If pressed, they fall on their sympathetic nervous system and reject any/all logic for it counters their "stability"... they feel personally attacked. Please... try the new series/format. I ask nothing of you no credit nada. I healed from inhaling neurotoxins and - if I had been any bit of unstable / irrational from strange beliefs like this - I would be dead... after healing I got together with a Muslim virgin (30 years old) that I had been friends with for almost a decade... I had consistently tried to instigate a thought process and never went against any of the notions I had shared in the past... always trying to be as kind as possible and she grew fond of me despite being (diagnosed) NPD... the worst person on the spectrum. The influences she took as distraction/entertainment were associated with her take over all the things that she already believed (confirmation bias) and there is nothing that can change this except people that she can relate to... Religious people also developed one additional need that "Atheists" don't need at all... to be accepted without reserve. Its something irrational through which they make each other believe that they're "good" (thats why everyone accepts them initially and then they rationalize the rejection because "it was not meant to be"). Between us, this is unbelievably sad... as if they never had to work on themselves by this simple train of thought that they all share. You are the first to hear about this additional need (while we only need to be : fed, shelted and safe
Maybe it’s the lies told about it, meaning how it’s really terrific. Something of this nature…?
I wish you'd get Jamie Dewolf on. That's L Ron's great grandson. He's actually quite a funny man as well. He has some great stories and takes on his psycho great grandad. Chilling stories as well.
@@Dawnarowsounds like you need to start your own channel. You've got a lot to say
Robbie again??🦔🦔👋🏾😊
Andrew stays quiet and truly listens - a perfect interviewer.
One of the most enjoyable interviewers to listen to for me, so respectful 👋
Agree, he’s very good at interviewing.
He is very handsome too😊
Interviewers who constantly interrupt their guests are rude and annoying. These interviewers are probably narcissists. LOL.
Mike Rinder has apologized enough! He's doing everything he can to make it right.
Scientology has saved Cruise from drugs, alcohol, and others drugs that have killed many stars . However is still a cult religion, must be avoided if u can help it
He could apologize again 😔
@@michael-4k4000How many apologies would be enough for you?
Only need to apologize once! He has more than made up for any past mistakes. We are all human, all have made mistakes.
I agree. And I think Mr Atack agrees. They weaponized Mike Rinder.
Mike has apologized enough. He’s speaking out and helping others escape. We can’t hold people accountable forever. Save us all if no one gets a second chance to recover from a mistake.
Retired: An essential piece of accountability and change is repentance. Mike has not only apologized but he has turned his energy to helping other scientologist be free of the damage. Praise to Mike!
He's also paid a steep price! He lost his wife of many years and his children as well as constantly being harassed by people hired by Scientologists that continues to this day! They have called him a wife beater and molester and gotten his ex and children saying those things as well!
Well we can, but how is it we have so much trouble giving credit to beneficial actions and "redemption journeys" ? the thing about endoctrination is that they make you do things that you wouldn't if you were elsewhere with someone whos not manipulating you - so yeah accountability is the core, but if we acknowledge the actions, we have to acknowledge the pattern, and the moment they get out of this peculiar state of mind
People like Mike were indocternated as kids. It doesnt make it okay what he did, but my god it all he knew. Even if he wasnt doing what he was, and just came out and apoligized and went on with his life. He should get forgiven.
He was an adult!! @@jaysonsorensen594
Great interview as always. I googled "Jon Atack" and the third listing was from a website called "STAND league" and said: "Jon Atack is a dishonest “deprogrammer” and unsavory hate blogger who has spread lies about the Scientology religion and Scientologists for over three ..."
No doubt this is a Scientology hatchet job lol
Of course it is!
In other words, they're scared more scientologist will find him and the truth.
Stand league is employed by the Cult of Scientology
jon atack is awesome!knowledgeable & gives a unique perspective of this non religion
It’s ironic how they teach people who join Scientology that psychology is the worst enemy and yet they use psychology techniques and knowledge at the fullest.😕.
101 of narcissistic/sociopathic abuse. Point at someone and call them guilty of what you did, people will rarely follow the arm backward.
@@TheNinnyfee was going to say just that. They are hypocrites and love to gaslight people. Oh and when they accuse you of what they are doing, it's a self confession.
@@adriannabcustomfurniture Yes, they are talking to the mirror.
It is psychiatry they don't like.
Still it has all the markings of an abusive cult.
As do other ideologies and older ones have killed millions for not swallowing the BS! hate one, hate them all or be a hypocrite. Seems cool these days to hate Tom cruise and scientology, I hate them all I don't discriminate : )
Fascinating about Charles Manson's connection with Scientology. I had never heard this. I was terrified as a child of Manson's stare, but now it makes sense.
I’ve heard stories for years about Manson “getting into” Scientology while in prison (though Criminon did not exist then). But no one seemed to be able to confirm or deny with certainty. That’s why this video has moved to the top of my list and I’m watching it now
Jon Atak's knowledge is encyclopedic. It's always a joy to listen to him!
When I was 12 or 13, I went with friends to the local state show ('fair' in US parlance). A tent was offering 'Free Personalty Tests'. Needless to say, we little girls went inside and completed the 'test'. We were all told that we had Personalty defects that could be corrected if we paid. Years later, I realised who the people running these so-called tests actually were.
If scientologists really and truly believe they're saving the world, can they provide any data on their progress? What specifically are they conned into thinking they're saving the world FROM and how's that going? Please ask a Scientologist that question, Andrew, if you get a chance.
They provide their own people with fake data. They do not feel they have anything to prove to the outside world, as we are irrelevant.
They are saving the world from mankind.
It’s all nonsense that, if you look at it too closely, does not add up and contradicts itself at many turns
I think that recruiting everyone into Scientology is itself what will save the world.
Sorry...*they think* .
Sadly, every year Miscavige gets up on stage and does a big deal about a bunch of pumped up statistics which means that most average Scilons can quote you a bunch of statistics which are just castles built on sand…
Ans as for what they’re saving the world from?
Oblivion! Blackness , forgetfulness continuation in a mental prison, or an electric trap!
Believe me, these are not the sort of questions trip Scientologists they live for them!
It's basically the 101 of narcissistic abuse. You take people who are struggling and/or open and curious and looking for answers and make them feel wanted, safe, and important compared to other people, especially their loved ones. It's called "divide and conquer" and is so old that it's amazing it is still working. You also address their willingness to work on themselves and their sense of mission and exploit both. Experts on cults say that most people could be lured in with those techniques within 4 days. And I believe that, you just have to figure out what the deepest wish of a person is and give it to them in a way they don't find suspicious. That activates really powerful hormone reactions in the body, which then produces its own drugs and gets you hooked.
I was victimized by narcs and later learned their patterns. Always protect yourself when you think someone will fulfill your wishes, especially when you have a bad time or feel desperate, or its "for free".
Good for him getting out that long ago. Is he considered a Suppressive Person today by Scientology?
Mike Rinder has absolutely nothing more to apologize for. He has apologized. When he's had the opportunity, he's apologized individually to people he may have wronged, and many of them are now his friends. He has more than redeemed himself, far more. He's done as much as anyone alive to use his knowledge and experience to expose the abuses of the criminal Scientology cult, and he continues to do so.
I think the only necessary apologies are the face to face ones to people he directly harmed. It’s more than folks get from others who do them great personal harm in other ways. A (ONE) general
apology for the rest should suffice. The true apology is making amends to society. His work speaking out is his apology to society, and his first rescue put paid to any societal wrong that may have needed righted. The rest has just been a blessing upon the individual Scn he has helped. Between him and them. And his shared wisdom will save more people than will ever be counted. And if Davey boy is ever prosecuted (or chased into real hiding), and/or the tax exemption is finally revoked, he will have the personal satisfaction of knowing he was instrumental in causing that downfall and potential freeing of all Scn being held - or at least allowing them to regain contact with their families
It's easier to Fool someone than it is to tell them they are being fooled.
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
-Mark Twain
@@AintImRite So Twain said that. I never and don't know anything about Mark Twain, apart from the fact it's a measurement of depth..
On the mark.
You can’t limit Jon to 1 hour! He’s truly brilliant and has deep knowledge on many things. Very interesting man if you can get him back again your audience will thank you😊❤
Just going off this comment alone I’m going to guess the guest was Jon Atack. That guy knows details, chapter and verse.
And a hunk to boot!
Sadly not live but edited. Jon Atack is so knowledgeable and kind in his reflections. Saying sorry is one step but carrying through into action demonstrates the apology. Mike Rinder is a shining example of action.
Leah, Mike Rinder, A-Aron, Marc, the SPTV crew who were in Scientology and are actually doing something about it.
As soon as I see your guest is Jon I know it will be in for a treat 🙂
Fascinating and horrifying. One of the things that makes Andrew Gold so successful in these postings is that he LISTENS. He lets his guests speak, asks the right questions, never intrudes, then sits back with us and hears what these people have to say.
It doesn’t get much better than Jon Atack and Andrew Gold
I've seen videos of Mike Rinder when he was in scientology and he was terrifying. His face was maniacal and his eyes looked so dark. I'd never want to run into him back then.. Great interview Andrew.
His family has no good words for Mike. And I don't believe, that CoS forced and coached them to say what they said.
@@masaokakihara9316The cos says that those two vanfuls of Mike’s relatives “just happened” to be driving around Clearwater and coincidentally ran into Mike. Mike was waiting for his second wife in a parking lot not visible from the road, on the phone with a BBC reporter. YOU believe his brother, who lives in Australia, “just happened” to be with cos professional trolls, along with Mike’s ex wife, and daughter and coincidentally noticed Mike in a parking lot not visible from the street, as they drove past.
if you don’t believe they have reason to lie, then I have a bridge to total freedom to sell you.
The videos by the cos drones are referred to as “prisoner of war” tapes because they share the same traits. The speakers are scripted and the scripts are nonsensical.
@@MariadeJesusGutierrez Oh, it might be scripted and professionalized by the PR team. That's a given with COS Still stating core facts though.
Do you know, that neither Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela or the Dalai Lama were/are only good people. To only name three well-known examples.
You either die young, or see your heroes become the enemy
@masaokakihara9316 how would you know??!!
Andrew, thank you so much for introducing Jon to me (us). I look forward to learning much more from him going forward. He's fascinating!
The Volunteer Ministers Handbook has a page dealing with how to deal with backpain. I as a physiotherapist in those days read it and could easily see that whoever had written it had never opened an anatomy book. The beginning of the end for me.
By far your best guest for a long long time! Please get him back on
Jon Atack; simply the best and brightest in his areas of expertise!
This interview needs to be written down, shared, translated ect. to keep it in the human archives.
OK bud
inscribe on titanium plates
Ironic observation: I am wearing a shirt saying “Make Orwell fiction again”. Most younger people stare at it blankly.
😂 now that’s a cool shirt.
@@AllyOnHerbsI found it online.
I need to know where you got that 😂
I want this T-shirt too!!
I want one too
Jon Atack is an amazing mind. I’ll be reading his “Opening Our Minds.” F**k Bully Systems!
Open your mind....sucker..
Embarrassing how u support these clowns.. Kool aid sheep.. baaaa
What a fascinating guest. I want to hear more of what he has to say and read all his books.
Freedom of speech. Good topic. Thanks Andrew.
I've read all Jon's books, and listened to hundreds of his interviews of others, but this has to be one of the best to let Jon shine, and he shines. Brilliant interviewing.
Brilliant comments here. I'm an ex, and I love comments by the smart commenters who listen to great interviews like this one.
- ex Scientology lifer staffer, paperpusher in the cult 75 to 03 (finished my Scientology 27 year career by doing almost 7 years on the infamous Scientology "Rehabilitation Project Force", a truly despicable thought reform program where the staff do the "Truth Rundown" pseudo-therapy brainwashing on each other, they team up and do the quackery highest level Hubbard brainwashing in a DIY way on each other, "failing" this "program" I quit finally.)
Yikes! It’s 2 of my favorite intelligent, cool and kind humans! Can’t wait to listen to this! 😎❤️❤️❤️
The process of psychopathic narcissists, from start to end, with their victims. Then the fallout of the smear campaign and mental/physical health outcomes from being involved/sucked into relationships of these individules. How the victim can recover/do not recover. Life reputation ruined permanently, etc..
Being targeted by them for 30 yrs now. Never joined them. They are very evil people.
I agree with Jon, there are people who don’t agree with their parents’ opinion and even are estranged so you couldn’t judge people according to their relatives.
Counterpoint:
The Kardashians
I should agree with this one😄, but that doesn’t mean that there are people and families the other way around.
Jon is amazing! You two have a good chemistry :) Subscribed to his channel right away. Good stuff. Keep it up!
Feast and enjoy on Jon’s channel!
@@DebraJean196po 3:01
This was one of the MOST Interesting interviews and Talk I have heard in a VERY long time...!
Jon is the man!
What an amazingly fascinating man! I could listen to him speak for hours. Absolutely brilliant.
Really enjoyed that and you always learn so much from Jon! Love the light hearted humorous way that information is given! Well done Andrew for a great interview!
Jon is so interesting. I totally agree with him about our authoritarian school systems which subject both students and staff to bullying to achieve compliance and conformity.
I believe "blue sky" originally refered to the selling of worthless land in Montana. "Homesteads" featuring the blue, blue skies of Montana. You soon learn that this land is virtually barren, save for some trees, with no toads or utilities such as water and electricity. Some were in conservation zones, so no building allowed.
Sadly, few prospective house buyers have a toad survey done. One of the most important things to consider when buying a house.
@@nerdyali4154 😆 j can't follow that up, you beat me to a pun.
Andrew, ive been a subscriber since the very start of your channel! You just keep getting better and better! Thanks for the fantastic content!
They're not a religion. Revoke their tax-exempt status and watch them.
What an interesting interview...well done Andrew....I could listen to this man for hours..
Amazing Interview.........more from Jon please!
What an interesting interview, thankies Andrew
What an amazing show - Jon Atack is so easy to listen to with a veritable planet sized brain that houses so much information that it boggles my pea sized one! Very interesting - please have him on again.
Worst thing Scientology has done? I would say attempting to overthrow governments and take over countries. South Africa, Rhodesia, Morocco. Could be a good interview topic Andrew!
ukraine. putin chucked 'em out and the european human rights airy-fairies told him that people had a right to follow what 'religion' they chose. russia responded by shutting down dianetics clinics in moscow. so they leave it a while - a couple of decades so that folk won't make the link in events. who is zelensky? the ukranian flag is half sky!
Wow. Did not have the imagination to see that one coming.
Existing would be my answer
Putin is his own cult.
@MsVanorak are you saying that Zelensky is a scientologist???
Jon Atak is superbly intelligent and equally entertaining . Thank you.
Thank you for this highly informative session. Much appreciated the both of you.
Definitely invite this gentleman back, very knowledge and interesting man/podcast
Oh wow I caught I live before it starts and it just so happens to be Mr atack 💪🏻👍🏻 decent geezer Jon
Hello Andrew, I always look forward to your next topic??!! I truly love your platform.....I only wish there were more creators like you. I like your curiosity; especially with the cult Scientology. With myriad guest panelists - opening our eyes, educating & spreading awareness with FACTS from ex- members conveying their nightmare belief systems!I would love for you to interview The Dark Journalist! I know that you're a researcher- he has a TH-cam channel. Andrew I like how you're transparent; honest with integrity! Congratulations with your growing channel! I wish you continued success & to see you produce more documentaries!
Thank you so much for continuing to systematically bringing these atrocities to light.!
👏👏 Always appreciate JA 👊.. TY Andrew ✌️😉
This one is amazing. I have found enough research material to keep my brain busy for probably a year and just things I want to read or watch just from this conversation. Well done.
Yessss Jon Atack always a treat! And you of course Andrew
Wow I can't understand why in Switzerland they are allowed to have their church! It's beyond criminal what they are doing 😮 glad I was never envolved with them😢
Hi, Geneva Switzerland is where Satan made his home. The WEF met in Davos, Switzerland. Evil, so the cult is there, too.
i'm in a band and last year we recorded a song about scientology called 'Subversion'... soon to be available to the masses - but only if you level up with cash deposits 😂😂😂
Respect & Peace ☘
Awesome comment..😝
This is a great video with lots of info that I hadn't heard until now. It amazes me that people will buy into this. I know that there's no way I would be able to go along with that amount of bullshit. I've heard it said that that's not true that I could have been taken in by this or something similar but I really don't think so. I'm just too stubborn when I feel like something isn't quite believable. I might be wrong but I really don't think so.
I remember watching a program on the experiments that Jon talks about! I was shocked, but I'm even more so to know that it in most ways are utilized by Scientology!
I Really like The Truth you show on your Station. Thank you for your hard work on (TRUTH you show). 😄👍🇺🇸🎉⚡
So interesting Andrew and Juli. Great stuff'☮️☮️
I always enjoy Jon's interviews, I find some ex-Scn focus on Miscavige (deservingly so) but Hubbard created the "tech" & wrote the policies & encouraged the abuses. So it's good to hear some focus on LRH who created this cult.
I completely understand what your saying. However it's the few channels like yours and 10 to life that function with integrity and true desire to aid in cases and get these stories out there. You don't have to stoop to their level. I don't like the drama either! I will support you no matter what you decide, but I think your voice is very important. 😊
I agree we have to stand for redemption. I think Marty paid his dues, long ago.
It's not just Scientology manifesting these behaviours current year.
Please jave Jon on again! His knowledge and intelligence helps us be educated on things going on in alot of places,not just Scientology!
Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody hurts here and than somebody. Everybody can apologize. Everybody can change. And those are facts.
Wow ,How much sense does this #AMAZING GUY, Make!! More Please!!
I was va short period in scientology at the Sea ORG in Copenhagen in 1984. I did the courses to become a staff member. I remember I was in staff product 0 and the courses of that, and then on to product 1 and product 2. I don,t know if they do that today. I was recruited on the streets in Copenhagen. I lived in Copenhagen at that time and was looking for a job and suddenly this guy came up to me and told me I could get a job in scientology. I was only 4 months inside and then I went out of it with no hassles.
I have become a Gold addict! My cult of youth was Catholicism. Baptized Catholic AND Methodist at birth. Parents were different faiths and Catholicism won the day most of the time. I am now an atheist. More of a energy/reincarnation kind of person. I think I register in mind more Catholic reflexes I.e. the sign of the cross, but don’t believe the faith. It’s a hard one to escape. Took me YEARS - I’m 72 and let go of the faith 30 yrs ago. They aren’t missing me I’m sure as I am a married lesbian, together 39 years. Keep up this important work and continue to educate us all. ❤️👏🏻🏳️🌈👍🏻
WOW! CAME into this late ..... Now I'm going to watch from beginning.
Fascinating and horrifying, in equal measure. Wish I hadn't heard about the puppies, though. Things like that torment my mind forever, it seems. TH-cam bans such comparatively mild content and allows this. Strange! Anyway, just subscribed .
I know what u mean 💔
I do find it interesting in all that was said that puppies stands out…. There was much much worse…..
What a wonderful and interesting Interview!!! Love your channel
AWESOME VIDEO ANDREW ,WHAT A STRANGE WORLD WE LIVE IN ,PEACE AN LOVE FROM BONNIE SCOTLAND.
What a brilliant man, i dont know how you found Jon but, well done..one of your best interviews.
Im gonna buy Jon's book as soon as i can.
I knew Mike was an impath, at times he will lean into it when hes talking with someone and i can see him fighting the urge to take on others emotions, at other times.
Mikes a good man, anyone who has seen the good he has done, always hold him in high regard.
When I girst heard of this cult I went and watched the congressal hearing when his son was called in. Being curious i devoured Chris Shelton videos, and how he survived his life in the SeaOrg! Now I'm listening to Mike Rinders account and how crazy the indoctrination is. To Jon's is another kick in the cults tower, and to hear that Manson had some dealings with the cult so many yrs ago I can understand how he was able to manipulate followers! I liken Scientology to one of the extreme Islamic groups, which stems out of the evilness of the mind! Oh and the blue sky reminds me of the swamp salesman or a piece of the moon people!
This was so short!!! Nevertheless, incredibly interesting.
I know some of that bullshit(TR's, i.e."maniacal stare"😂 and much more) because in 2002. I went to a "Narconon"- sadly, I went down the path of addiction. It's connected deeply with Scientology and uses some of their practices. One good thing is that I'm from Croatia and we're quite the opposite of Americans. We're tough to manage😂 and it's even more harder to indoctrinate and brain wash us.
The program itself is based on something that I preferred, mental work, unlike other communes, the religious ones. Religion, i.e. praying for hours, doing mindless manual work like picking the overgrown grass, painting the walls(for the fifth time in a year😆) is definitely not something that would ever help me. But this sh*t did. I've "taken" the parts that I perceived as useful and those things helped me cope with the"state of being clean".
Duh, it's a long story, but it was interesting to hear about some of that practices again.
I'd love if you'd have him again. Although, every person you've ever talked to, in your podcast, was fantastic. I really appreciate your efforts, dedication, curiosity(I'm a nosey person...I like to know everything about...everything😏). And thank you for being such a decent, wonderful human being.
Greetings from Croatia
I can understand brainwashing to a certain degree from growing up in a military family. I always wanted to be a soldier and when I became a soldier and made it home alive I always felt guilty that I didn't die for my country like so many others. I still feel that way today. I've been working on it now for many years and I think I've made some progress, but I don't think it will ever completely go away.
Goodness.
Don't feel guilty. Just....don't.
Dont feel Guilty for having a good star. Let it shine and live a happy life.
Not sure if this helps in some way....during our many horrific bushfires in Aust, I'd spoken and listened to people whose houses were untouched by the fires when their surrounding neighbours homes and possessions were leveled to mere ash. Some felt deep guilt they were 'spared' the horrors of losing everything. I knew 2 families who moved to another state to escape facing their neighbours watching them rebuild their homes, yet never recouping their family personal, meaningful possessions.
Others who lost nothing or little, helped neighbours rebuild and became solid friends.
Maybe....it is having a deep empathy for others rather than feeling a guilt??? Life is often unfair, yet it is a journey we travel.
Hope one day you can turn the thoughts around. Xxxx
When i was 20 a group of young people attempted to recruit me into scientology but thankfully I didn't buy into it. And that was almost 50 years ago! I still have the Dianetics book...somewhere :o
Goodmorning Andrew, yes for sure I wil support your gast , much enjoyed the talk very very interesting with some facts I wasn't aware, so altogether great.kind regards
Jon Atack is a legend! I know that you said former Order member Amanda Rae never got back to you but I did see her talking to someone who was on your channel so I’m still hoping 🤞
I worked for a dentist and was fired because I wouldn’t believe in this bs
Scientology silences people with “the threat of litigation” or the threat of loss of family or the threat of your job and income. Etc etc
Thank you Andrew Gold & guest speaker.
Who is selling stars these days? My daughter bought one for my grandson her cousin when he was born, I just laughed, didn’t think she would be taken in like that,
In the nineties Sci was very aggressive and bullying people on the street. Hollywood Boulevard, guys on bicycles with walky-talkies. I was there, occasionally doing my sing-along-Scientology Songs. Aggressively paranoid.
!!!!woh!!!! This describes thought broadcasting which happens in schizophrenia. This means you know that likely the person who thought up that paranoid bs was likely both psychotic and schizophrenic or schizoaffective.
fascinating interview.
interesting character indeed.!
thoroughly enjoyed.!
☺️😊😁
✌🏻🌏🇦🇺🤘🏻
Thankk you for supporting free speech!
Except for America, most Western countries practice it vigorously.
Brilliant stream. I have just borrowed a DVD of Louis Theroux on Scientology so will watch it now.
Fantastic insights
I would be ashamed if I gave millions of dollars to an organization. What about the people that don't have show business jobs to afford to pay them big money?
jon is an awesome guy . thx...
I’m sorry I can’t watch it all now but will finish later. How much has Tom Cruise given or is he one who gets back? Thank you for such an interesting blog.
Jon Atack, Family and Friends is most underrated TH-cam channel.
Such an interesting interview!
A small aside. I'm glad Atack mentioned the incident where Noam Chomsky took so much flack (including being called an anti-Semite) for protesting the prison sentence of the French holocaust denier ... when all that Chomsky was doing was standing up for that very American ideal, freedom of speech. Chomsky thought that the man's views were execrable, but, as many people have pointed out, freedom of speech doesn't really mean anything if you only give it to people whose views you agree with.
On the other hand, I can certainly understand why France, with its history of the Vichy government, and especially Germany, for obvious reasons, want to make sure that Nazism and Fascism and holocausts never happen again, and take extreme measures to ensure that they won't.
On topic, i congratulate and thank Andrew Gold for having Atack (whom I did not know about previously) on this show, and Atack himself for all the good work and clear (no pun intended) thinking he has obviously done.
Since I first saw him on Chris Shelton's channel any time I see John Atack on a channel I listen with great interest. Always spillin the hot t
Going to get the audiobook as a start
How can one be so intelligent like Jon and fall into this complete c..p of a belief?
yes Andrew, more like this, good work