Understanding This Mechanic Is More Important Than You Think
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มี.ค. 2024
- Dive deep with us in this exploratory video as we unravel the intricate mechanics behind the enemy spawn system in Helldivers 2. With hours of rigorous testing and analysis, we've distilled essential insights that will redefine how you engage with the game, regardless of your experience level.
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🔬 What's Inside:
In-Depth Analysis: Get a comprehensive look at the spawn mechanics, understanding the when, why, and how enemies appear to challenge you.
Expert Insights: Our findings are backed by extensive testing, ensuring you get accurate and actionable information.
Tips for All: Whether you're just starting your journey or you're a seasoned veteran, we've discovered nuances and strategies that will enlighten and improve your gameplay.
This video is more than just a guide; it's a deep dive into the core of Helldivers 2, aimed at empowering players with knowledge that can turn the tide of battle. New players will find a solid foundation to build their skills, while veterans might discover something new that challenges their understanding of the game.
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Link To The Reddit Post:
shorturl.at/ikwBL
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🎮 About Helldivers 2:
Helldivers 2 is a thrilling, cooperative, twin-stick shooter from Arrowhead Game Studios, challenging players to work together on procedurally-generated battlefields against a variety of alien threats. With a focus on teamwork, strategy, and precision, mastering the use of stratagems is key to your squad's success.
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Hey i'm one of the testers for that Reddit post. Thanks for referencing the post and your explanation is a great summary of the information! Happy we could get this info out to the community.
Thank YOU for letting me and spending the time on such a fine and detailed post! I truly respect the time you invested in it! And a little shoutout is the least I could do..
Also, pinned your message.. hope that’s alright 👍
@@TheCymonSaysOf course!
Some things in the video contradict what is written in the post. One example: as per reddit post, activating the extraction point has no effect. Only being within the radius has effect. Another example: video says that engaging the outpost will increase the heat by 50% and heat will stay there. The reddit post says that the extra 50% heat will dissipate when the outpost is destroyed or the players left the radius.
Pilestadt said in a live play with OperatorDrewski that calling in more than 1 stratagem regardless of location will generate patrol spawns throughout the entire map.
As one of the testers that built out this research, we're super happy to see others spread this information and most importantly peer review it.
We care about its accuracy and if we got something wrong, we'll work to retest and correct it.
Thank you for sharing all your knowledge and taking your time for testing it.. I hope my video is worthy and you find the shoutout to be fair 🙏
Don't you think the video is misrepresenting the information in the post? Looks like the author got confused with all the info.
Would you be willing to share your testing methodology?
Can you test it with the new booster?
@@PhoenixCheetah Localization Confusion does not affect spawn rates in any way. It appears to provide a modest boost to the time between bot drops/breaches. Rough testing puts it around 10% but even getting clean baselines for reinforcements is tough.
I wish destroying nests and factories would change the intensity of enemy presence. It just feels like it would make logical sense
yes and no, by destroying it you lower the area of influence, therefore you will no longer be generating heat by being in that location. It would make sense to lower the presence, however it also makes sense that enemy will call in more reinforcements after loosing a base i guess.
@@Hrakuun couldn't have put it better myself, I just want to add that there's the obvious gameplay perspective as well
The mission needs to ramp up as it progresses, it'd be boring if less spawned as a result
Perhaps it could have some other effect
@@rambo-cambo3581well both nests and factories only produce light/small enemies so maybe decrease the total of weak enemies but increase the total of large/difficult enemies.
@@rambo-cambo3581 it could decrease the rate of spawns but increase the size/difficulty of the spawns
Hell yeah, like a balancing act and strategic gameplay.. ok it's been 15 minutes, enemies will get more dense, but we've closed 3 nests.. do we stay for samples?? Etc
One of the better explanations of the spawn mechanics, especially how people can make a difficulty even harder by splitting up instead of playing as a team. This is why the waves of enemies are so big in some games with randoms at higher difficulties.
Splitting up isn’t such a bad idea you just have to make sure your squad is ready for it. Definitely don’t recommend doing this in random lobby’s tho that’s just rude.
Splitting is perfectly fine even in random lobby. Just make sure not to Splitting the group more then once 2 groups total. As long as the secondary group moves in stealth and or is completing the objectives quickly with no few fights.
Large groups tend to get in more fights and draw fights out.
I agree that as long as you're maintaining stealth splitting up isn't bad Considering the heat Only plateaus at 50% until you start the first main objective apparently the problem is finding randoms that are actually using their mic and will listen to you coordinate who goes where. I feel like especially with these types of games most randoms are just there to shoot their gun mindlessly which is why I would never suggest playing past level 7 if you're trying to get all the samples that you can because you're probably not going to even end up making it out if there's a lot of randoms on difficulty 8 and 9
@@t900HAWKno isn't if you skilled enough, me and my team always spreading and not that hard even for helldive difficulty
Completely disagree
The bucket and heat analogies made this video incredibly easy to learn, which is a lifesaver as I'm definitely an analogy guy. Fantastic video, it's a must watch for every Helldiver out there imo.
Thank you for the kind feedback 🙏
At first i thought it was backwards logic to have more patrols when nests were cleared. But the more i think about it the more i like the idea. It isn't illogical if the patrols are moving towards the combat from distant locations and it will create more hectic endings. If patrols started out frequent and diminished with nest clears then the end of the map would always be boring. Really cool that people put in the work testing all of this.
This video is sooo helpful. I finally understand how my team ended up with 6 bile titians spawning on us at once.
Also just the fact that barely anything kills the damn things half the time lol. They feel so inconsistent. Sometimes they die in 2 rockets to the face or a single orbital. Sometimes they tank half a mech capacity and multiple strikes
@slaayerr1 With the mech, I find that if you can consistently headshot a bile titan, you should be able to kill it in 2-3 rockets (that being said, it's head is a very small target so you might be hitting it's shoulder). I'll also say the railcannon is almost an auto-include on higher difficulties. If it survives the railcannon, you can pretty much just breathe on it to knock it over. Drop pods from reinforcing teammates are also a really good weapon against bile titans. They are massive targets, and so should be easy to hit.
If you end up against a horde of bile titans and your entire team is wearing light armor (and not extracting), you can easily outrun them to the other side of the map, and hopefully trigger them to despawn.
There's a bug where if you are on PC and you are not the host and there's a PS5 player in your squad, a lot of your weapons do a LOT more damage. But objectively, hitting 2-4 recoilless/EAT shots to the head will kill a bile titan. One 500kg bomb perfectly landed will work, or you can combine a railcannon/110mm pod shot with something like a recoilless shot on the head or weak spot should take them down. 2 spear shots should do it too.
Hoooooly CRAP! This is the BEST explanation of how this works. I could never get out of missions with more than 4 rare samples and many times just got none cuz I was running for my life and then just trying not to die at extract. Followed everything you listed. Hit poi’s, nests, and secondaries, stayed away from primary by a mile, and literally strolled out with the easiest extract ever and 9 rare samples! Subbed just now. Most deserving sub I’ve ever given! THANK YOU!!
Thank you mate! And thank you for letting me know that it worked! Really appreciate it 🙏
I only play on difficulty 7 we usually roll out with 20-25 samples. Git gud.
@@eagle25311 Aye sir! Gitting Gud now sir!
I won't tell you to get gud, but I am reporting you to the Ministry of Truth as you're leaving primary objectives uncompleted and that's just undemocratic and treasonous.
@@brandynbabitskas8408That is such a good reply lol
Something I've noticed is I'll have a squad of 3 running around fighting bugs with the 4th person completing objectives without getting harassed at all, making be think there's some kind of unit cap allowed in the map.
Yeah... when I do data transfer mission i always take responsibility on the package so I get me some fast and protective loadout: light armor, one handed weapon, jetpack to handle better terrain and I just go for the objective stealthy while my friends patrol or stay very back because I dodge all the fights to carry the data. Sometimes I get to a poi and no enemies around, once i got to the terminal and there were a couple enemies so I put a mortar next to the terminal and nothing more ever spawned and i did the tower redirecting all alone. Maybe the game gives priority to larger groups?
Same, spliting up is way easier to complete the mission on any difficulty. Its this strategy people use on helldive to complete escort missions. It works.
@@lawrenceriverside6659 it felt more that the game prioritize an already pitched battle over the other group where they're sneaking around. which is fair and logical.
I absolutely had a few matches where half the team fought hordes of enemies while slowly retreating across the map while the other half of the team completed objectives and commented on how easy that difficulty felt.
I think this works better for bugs as they spawn so much they probably hit whatever cap exists faster.
You can absolutely phrase it as reinforcements being prioritized towards the engaged part of the map but it might just be big breaches more likely to happen there and the cooldown timer then prevents a breach near the other teammates.
Not sure if reinforcement cooldown timer is local or mapwide
Apparently this is because each player is classed as a group and each group is surrounded by an area of 75m. Patrols wont spawn in this 75m radius and only one patrol will spawn if there is only one group. 2 groups? 2 patrols. 4 groups? You guessed it...
The more groups there are, the more patrols will spawn. Not every group will have it's own patrol to deal with though.
If you have a squad of 4 and you all split up, the game could spawn in a total of 4 patrols, as 4 players split apart more than 75m from each other, make 4 groups. If all 4 groups end up with a patrol on them and they link up to defend each other, thats 4 patrols worth of enemies to fend off. On the higher difficulties that will be a struggle. As I said, the game could spawn in a patrol for each group, but sometimes one group may get all patrols while the rest get none. That means one VERY unlucky helldiver may end up fighting 4 patrols while his 3 other buddies are running around in No-Mans Land without an enemy in sight.
All this can apply to bigger groups, so 2 groups of 2, meaning a total of 2 patrols, which may or may not target one group.
Best way I can think to counter this is a formation of sorts where all players are split up but just inside the 75m radius, chaining each individual group together. You could have 2 players who are 150m apart, but because there is one other player exactly between them, they all count as 1 group because 2 of the players are within one radius, combining all indivual groups.
The boys and me were spreading DEMOCRACY yesterday and were drowning in an ocean of bugs on difficulty 7 yesterday. This explains why! I forwarded them the video, thank you for this. And thank you to all the Reddit testers!
Thus might explain why Bile Titans screw over newer players despite the kills not coming much from the titan itself. It probably forces players to scramble in a panic making more buckets appear.
Yup.. And even with this knowledge it still happens for my team and I. Sometimes you’re just getting pushed and have to react. What we often do, is we make one go for a sacrifice. Let him agro all the biles and then call on the 500kg and stand on top on it with the biles
@@TheCymonSays*FOR DEMOCRACY!*
from what i noticed sreading out makes it often easier , this is especialy noticable on high dificulties and smaller number of players , sticking together on dificulty 9 on 2-3 players is much harder then 4 , and spreading out makes it easier
especialy titans and chargers who are more annoying , but alone you can kite and mislead them , in group your bound to run into more enemies who going to stager you and titan will finish you
being alone also means enemies will target only you , so 1 placed stegram will kill much more enemies then if enemies would split
@@TheCymonSaysWhen in a group working together with voice chat, I've learned that one of the most important things is co-ordinating your movements as a team. Where to go, and when to go. This needs to be a constant discussion, moment to moment, with people suggesting pings or compass directions, and the others quickly deciding upon it.
What more often happens in a less coordinated team, is that bad guys show up and push on you, one guy goes left, another goes right, one guy holds his ground, and the last decides it's time to leave but does so alone without saying anything. The result is predictably total chaos, with friendly fire and death and additional patrols getting dragged into the combat before the first threat is dealt with.
In a better scenario when everyone stays close together, you should always have enough firepower to keep a breach under control without needing to endlessly kite or give up too much ground. When a second patrol or additional problem inevitably complicates this however, you don't want to be stuck between them. So you call out a new direction to move as a group, whether that be to keep the enemy on one side of your team, to make progress on reaching the objective, to get better ground to fight from, or any other reason.
I have a friend in my typical group who plays great individually, and also often had a good sense for when a fight was bogging us down or how to reposition to stay alive, but was way too silent about it and would just slip off without a word, leaving us unexpectedly undergunned and overrun. It was becoming a routine problem and I felt awful nagging them about "where did you go?" or such. So instead I started keeping an eye on them (or anyone else breaking off) and calling out for everyone to follow with them instead. Eg, "We can't stay here, everyone on Joe", etc.
Managed to get a group culture going of us calling someone as the person to converge on any time we needed to move. Pretty quickly fights start feeling a whole lot less chaotic, as bugs are all lined up in neat lines for us to calmly deal with, one fight at a time, rather than five.
@@VarenvelDarakusthis works if there’s some distance and you don’t overlap with teammates and as-long as everyone is not running all around the map kiting. Otherwise, just like COD zombies your SOL.
this makes sense, I did a lvl 4 titan mission the other day and all 4 of us were spread out, it got really crazy with spawns feeling far beyond lvl 4, they were literally everywhere
This is consistent with my solo gameplay experience. I can’t say anything about the coop experience except 1 time a troop spawned on top of me literally. While I was about 100m from friends.
Sound about right. That partol group was for your friend, but you just unlucky to be there.
@@peacepham7838 Thats BS. Thats why i stopped playing. Waste of my time.
This happened to me and my brother. Both of us got a patrol spawned on us.
Patrols randomly spawning is a bug lmfao.
After the first patch (railgun nerf) something broke inside the game which caused enemies to spawn more ofte and become more aggressive.
@@digitalcthulhu143agreed. I never saw spawning enemies. They always appeared either behind terrain or behind me. Now they popup around me, instantly locking me in place
The map timer is interesting because I swear I have seen an official comment from either the CEO or head of development that it did and enemy spawns would ramp up the longer the mission ran.
There are some truth to this since nobody will stay idle at the spot where they spawn.. So naturally by roaming the map you’ll build up heat :) I did however try to just idle for a round and I saw very little increase, just had to avoid some patrols every now and then
There are tips that are in the game that says the longer the mission the more enemies spawn.
@@roninwavemanMap timer makes patrols spawn more enemies per patrol, not spawn more frequently. Frequency is controlled by the heat mechanic.
@@carbonbeaker409 The reddit post linked seems to dissagree even in amount spawned, and chalks it up to randomness, meaning that none of the factors mentioned that generate heat, and none of the factors mentioned that doesn't generate heat, affect *what* enemies spawns in when they eventually do spawn.
@@cerulean5032hmmm I could have misread the post, will have to check back and do some testing. I was meaning the time of the mission scaled the spawn amount not the map heat. Will check back in in a bit
I believe this is the FIRST VIDEO, I've seen about the "hidden" spawn mechanics. THANK YOU FOR THIS!
Glad I could help!
Good stuff. This might explain why the difficulty on some missions seems so inconsistent. It makes sense if people are quadrupling spawns unknowingly by running around alone.
yep no reason to rush objectives alone, you are just making everything harder for everyone else.
I thank the algorithm for guiding me to this video. Not because of the explanation, but because it was simply produced great. I hope your channel grows up quickly. You deserve it.
Thank you man 🙏 your kind words put a smile on my face
Yesterday while pressing the Draupnir offensive (after cutting our teeth on diff 9 Bug missions) we were playing on diff 5-6 and upon landing, have multiple dropships of medium units and an annihilator tank come down almost precisely on top of us. We scrapped the freedom-hating bots but boy did that set the tone.
Oooooh, that's exactly my feeling but now i have the explanation. Sometimes with randoms, they run everywhere and it becomes hell, sometimes we play as a real team and we can even stop a spawn by killing everything staying together and have some breathing room to rearm.
With your vid now i know why!
The teams that successfully complete the mission are the ones that stick together, and this is especially true in higher difficulties. But most morons play this like COD it's extremely annoying.
@@moteq6598to be honest, at level 9 the time I fail objectives are the time when the team stay grouped. people can't help but shoot every single ennemy on sight, aggroing an entire army, then blaming you because they died 8 times and you did not. people tend to forget that by crouching, ennemy patrols (and even ennemy spawn) can simply not find you, forget you and scatter / despawn leaving enough room for you to sneak in.
TL; DR Stay within 75 Meters of each other and distant from objectives to limmit spawns
many times I fail helldiver difficulty with randoms because most just split up. I'm trying to keep everyone alive by killing chargers and bile titans left and right with my eagle strategems and EAT, but we almost always fail because the buffoons decide to just run off and let the horde chase after them.
Plus the toxicity in higher difficulties is something else. I've been kicked for accidentally team killing the host. As usual, people ruin this game.
@@moteq6598 toxicity is extremely rare in my experience. I'm sorry but if you find yourself constantly in the middle of drama, maybe you're the issue?
Maybe not, I'm just saying.
The enemy timer does affect how many enemies spawn and what kind of enemies spawn but it’s doesn’t affect the bucket like you said. This was backed up by the devs.
What's the "enemy timer"? Did you mean Mission timer?
@@KrayZee33 It's the time cooldown between bug breach/bots drop. You can notice scenario where if your team can't kill enemy fast enough, they will just keep calling reinforcement after reinforcement, stacking up endless wave.
@peacepham7838 THIS seriously needs more work imo. Either a limit on how many times they can call more in from the one encounter or SOMETHING. Perhaps just increase the time it takes for them to set it off. Either way definitely needs work as this is one the most annoying mechanics in the game imo
@@nighthero_gaming9021 There's limit on how many breach/drop can go on in 1 map at the time, and limit how much enemy can exist. If there's a breach/drop somewhere, it won't happen on your location, and if the spawm limit reached, there'll be no patrol come for you.
@@nighthero_gaming9021 You can see this in the silos defend quest, where common tactic is to active all silo at once, so bug breach can only happen on 1 silo, while other 2 only have 1 reinforcement wave.
First video i see on this channel and those Edits/transitions were sick asfuck and deserved my Like and Sub
This is definitely good to know. I really think there should be some way to decrease heat/enemy spawn rates in mission, too. Like destroying nests/factories should decrease it by some amount depending on the size of the nest/base. That would make this whole mechanic feel more like a tug of war, instead of a losing battle from the very beginning. And it could give us a way to salvage a mission where enemy numbers are getting out of hand.
Plus, actually being rewarded for being aggressive and destroying enemy production facilities would be way more fun, and properly thematic, instead of having to avoid everything for as long as possible.
I agree to this. Would love to have a way to lower the heat by doing a certain action.. This would also make you able to recover during the dive if mistakes where made
It'd be cool if the spawns were actually around the nests/factories and you could limit where they could spawn from by strategically clearing parts of the map.
But guys! The intensity and stress is part of the fun😅
And that feeling when you make extraction after 57 close calls💦
If one could decrease enemy spawn, intensity would possibly go away, making the game more boring in the long run am I right?
But also it depends on how much enemy presence is decreased.. But nobody likes just strolling around am I right😅?
@mrebenson4081
It is but its also actually a little annoying to know that clearing bug-holes / fabricaters actually contradicts ones intuition and has you go generate more enemies. In no other situation would that make sense.
If a faction is losing influence as bases are being destroyed, then they lose influence. The idea that Bugs & Bots can just maggically call in an entire army of heavies from out of nowhere on the 3rd mission of a campaign where we've 100% the maps is wild af.
If im done my job of clearing EVERYTHING out then reward with me for. I don't care about XP. We get that either way.
Thanks for running the tests. I know that must have taken quite some time. And thank you CymonSays, your squad and Gergination even more for sharing the info for everyone to see!
Happy diving helldivers.
Your welcome.. I will give most credits for Gergination and his team since they did most of the initial testing :)
I'm so glad I watched this. I've been going about missions completely opposite of the way I should have been doing them. I'll be far less likely to be overwhelmed now playing solo.
Thank you for letting me know and I’m happy that the video could be of any help 🙏
Outstanding video sir! Your so underrated and deserve more attention.. Hope you'll stick around making Helldivers content, since your videos is always a good and informative watch!
🙏 Thanks mate! I will be sticking around for Helldivers 2! Love the game and seems like the content im making for it is well recieved :D
I watched a vid that went into very precise numbers and more specifics and it kinda summed up to as you aproach an objective your “heat” (patrol spawn rate) increases gradually until you in a nest per say, while in a bug nest the patrol spawn rate is twice as fast until you close all the holes once you complete the objective the patrol spawn rate returns to normal unless your near another objective that’s far to close at which point expect a LOT of enemies. And the second thing the video went over is after you complete the main objective the spawn rate of patrols actually increased by 4X meaning until you extract you will be running into four times the patrols and if you don’t clear an alerted patrol there’s always a chance that things get out of hand fast with bug breaches and running from a hoard into other patrols and things like that. I think the vid was called like Why you should not run away in helldivers or something and it was quite I formative. Ignore my own reply this is the vid th-cam.com/video/Zp8xuf_dLDw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=smFAhRiI8TTaUPkl
This will help very much with making decisions in the game. Great topic and well presented. You deserve more subs and views.
Thanks mate! Your comment goes a long way in my motivation in making more content! :) Thank you!
Instructions still unclear, 15 fucking bile titans spawned
Dodge - run - nuke… And pray to our lord and savior is all you got left to do then 😅
Glad to hear your channel is doing well bud. Great informative video. Just shared this link with 3 other players that I know.
Thanks mate and yeah.. never saw this growth coming but what a thrill 🙏
I love the style of your content. Its rare that I follow a channel after 1 video!
Note about saving the exo-suits: me and my team have been dropping in at extraction (or near) on bug missions and calling down suits on extract. After doing the mission, we go to extract and call down more suits (because cool down it's well over). Only 1 or 2 of us had to give up a stratagem slot, and we get 2-4 suits at the end where we need them the most.
Dude, this was an awesome video! The recorded gameplay, and your explanations about the games mechanics were so helpful! It's also well worth mentioning that the production value, editing and music for your video was great! 🙏
Thank you 🙏
Great vid my guy you earned a sub most vids i watch are 10 min of useless info from guys just looking for views. This was very informative info for tackling 9's thanks again!
Absolutely fantastic video! (And for being introduced the Ooyy's Kenji -- Thank you!!! What a fantastic piece of music!!)
🙏
Song is Ooyy - Kenji | and yes its an absolute banger
Uffh I forgot the Ooyy part 😅 Thank you for telling us and yes! It’s a banger.
I came here to praise this song choice, too! Like wow. This song lit up my musical side like no one's business! hahaha
This seems like good info, but how did you gather the information / heat measurements? I only ask because it seems subjective without actual values.
Qualitative knowledge > quantitative knowledge
@@Orizzle1870That's not an answer, like damage values in the health values depleted upon bullets hit etc how the fuck was this found out? Because your little bullshit ratio explains absolutely nothing
... That's a surprisingly clean green screen comp for a random YT video.
Ohh, so that explains some things I seen in the game, recently I had a game, where the team got split up into teams of 2 and 1 team was going for the main objectives, while the second team was dealing with all the side stuff, like nests, side objectives, etc, the first team for some reason didn't wait for us to arrive to extraction when the time came tho, so they activated the terminal even tho we were far apart, when the side objective team arrived, the place was absolutely swarmed with bugs, I don't even know how many, but you nearly couldn't see any actual ground beneath that sheer volume of terminids, it was a hard mission tho, so while there were a bunch of bile spewers, at least there were no chargers, or bile titans
An important nitpick/technicality about map heat in relation to patrol spawn timers that may have gotten lost in the bucket metaphor:
Each level of heat fills the bucket at a certain rate, no matter what. For example, maybe you land in the middle of nowhere and just hide, and it takes, say, 3:20 to spawn a patrol, which you avoid without generating any additional heat. 3:20 later, another patrol will spawn. If you increase the heat (say, by competing a main objective and engaging with the enemies involved in that objective POI), patrol spawns will increase in frequency/decrease in time between patrol spawns, permanently. If by the time you finish the objective enemy patrols are now spawning every 80 seconds, for instance, no amount of avoiding enemies will ever result in a patrol taking more than 80 seconds to spawn.
AFAIK, testing is still required in regards to a "max number of enemies on the map" limit to patrols; in theory, this untested/unconfirmed limit could mean that after a certain number of patrols have spawned without despawning, no new patrols would be able to be formed, or possibly a new patrol spawn would auto-despawn the oldest patrol on the map (or something similar). Ultimately, however, the most important thing to do is to work as a team to minimize heat acquisition across the map.
This doesn't mean that splitting up isn't a viable option, however! Many undemocratic helldivers have come to the incorrect conclusion that if anyone decides to bravely face the enemy forces on their own/with a partner, this additional source of heat generation must be ultimately detrimental to the team. However, the Ministry of Defense would like to remind Helldivers that such thoughts are not only a thought-crime, but also incorrect! While it is true that a full squad remaining within 75m of each other only generates one encounter of heat at a time, it is also likely that the minimum time required to complete that encounter (eg, time it takes for a transmission tower to become fully operational, time it takes to distribute e-710 to airships) can only be improved so much by having multiple helldivers focusing their attention in that area. When a helldiver fully utilizes the skills taught to them in training, sending two squads of two to two different objectives at the same time may generate twice the amount of heat in half the amount of time, OR (assuming both objectives are long time-sinks largely unaffected byhaving more than two people) may generate the SAME amount of heat that would be generated by the group of 4 doing them sequentially in half the amount of time, allowing for more time to complete more objectives at the same heat level!
The most important takeaway shouldn't be "anyone who goes on a solo mission is a traitor," but rather "any helldiver that tries to engage every single unaware patrol is willingly giving away clandestine operational intelligence to the enemy by revealing our position and should be reported to their nearest Democracy Officer, regardless of whether they do so within 75m of the squad or on the other side of the map." Loose Lips Sink Ships! Keep Squad Movements Secret, Keep Democracy Safe!
This is the best comment I’ve ever seen on TH-cam… hahaha you’re a god’daym Legend 😅 Thank you!
For me, I still discourage fighting every enemy patrol, or even the majority of enemy patrol. The basic mentality should be to fight patrols only if necessary, mainly because in higher difficulties, the chances of large things you need to move away from (Bile Titans, spewer hordes, chargers, Hulk horde, tanks) is significant, as well as the additional chance of the bucket having been filled earlier, and a patrol also capable of calling in reinforcements is en route to you.
Now does this mean you have to play the game as stealthy as possible, and never engage the enemy? No, but I do warn against it on higher difficulties, because 1 bad bug breach or bot drop can mess up and scatter your squad.
Right, which is the interaction that new booster effects. The spawn time. Ear as I can tell it makes the heat count as one increment less. This is why it doesn’t really feel like it does much of anything.
This comment needs to be pinned 😂
Right, so the "Heat" is basically "rate at which buckets are filled". This got me confused in the video. But there is another question. Does being in proximity of objectives increase heat permanently or temporarily? If I go near an objective and then go back far, will the heat increase, then decrease? If it doesn't decrease, is it not better to do primary objectives after going through all the other POIs and nests first?
do you have a source, or testing to show any of this? It sounds like it could be correct, but you have a lot of specific numbers, so I was wondering if you could show how you got them.
Since I’m not a data miner I can’t show hard evidence, and this video was made with the intent of being short and informative.. However, I put the link for the Reddit post in the description. Give that a go if your searching for more evidence 😁
Check pinned comment. Luchs (one of the testers from the reddit post) has video evidence of their testing
Scout armor with a rover pack is so wild. Rover always wants that smoke
This was semi-new information for me. I remembered from the first one that I need to drop away from the objectives, do all the exploration first and objectives last... But I didn't remember why. Thanks!
Thanks for this very informative video, super surprised that it doesn't have hundreds of thousands of views considering how well informative it is
Glad it was helpful!
There is also something about the spotting mechanics i noticed connected with Heat. If you eliminate any enemy that originally spotted you and you are hiding (for example on top of a large rock) , any enemy might gather around that rock and even make agressive noises as IF they know where you are, however as long as they have not spottet you manually, they dont actually know. After about 3 minutes, they start loosing interest and walk away from the rock , disengaging and cooling down the overall map heat.
This explains it way better than I did to my squad. Thanks for making this video.
Thanks to this video I have more faith in doing solo sniper runs ! Using tagging to see how far targets are and always keeping 100+ meters distance to heat zones is gonna be such a fun and tactical way to play
I want to know if it's possible, and if so, how many GL grenades does it take to kill a bile titan? I'd assume one would have to hit the face first, while it's spitting, then destroy the sacks, and if enough damage was done, will bleed out. The question is how many GL grenades to the face does it need before rupturing the sacks will kill it quickly? I'm curious bc w an ammo backpack and being desperate, it could be a viable option.
Why don’t you just try it out yourself?
@@therealmarce440 I could, but without recording etc, my anecdotal would be less accurate than someone who does a deep dive, records and edits, who may already want to test other weapons on the same subject. I can try and get back to y'all. Anecdotal will always be weaker than seeing a vid actually showing it. Video editing is not my forte, but I can def give it a go, and relay my results.
I have noticed that killing off outposts/nests though does have a positive effect on depleting enemy counts across the map. If you have 4 players in stealth builds equiped to drop and blitz a Bot outpost each for example, you can take out many bases quickly. And this does clear out large chunks of the map. But it does risk multiple spawns. staying quiet does seem to make things easier.
Alright, that was ENLIGHTENING! I'll take a look at the reddit post but thank you for sharing this ^^
I've been working on learning this for the last week, and it has definitely improved my play, group and solo. I'm having more success and more fun.
From my testing ( i tried with ur analogy) 1 player = 1 bucket
If 4 player team together at same place and objective it mean 4 bile titan will spawn
But if you are spread out for every single player into objective, it much easier than stuck together as a team
Agreed. Sometimes splitting away and completing side missions is easier alone, since others are busy with the main bucket
Was the video helpful? Anything else you want me to cover? Then please let me know 🙏 And thank you all for the support you’ve shown recently!
Presentation is great however I am pretty sure it's incorrect to say mission time does NOT affect spawn because of 3 main things
1. when missions have lower time they spawn more bugs out the gate
2. the game itself literally says this is a thing so why would it lie?(I know the game has humor and goofy tips but that doesn't seem like a goofy tip)
3. It's happened many times that people will drop then immediately get a bile titan and other nasties spawned so Most likely for some missions the starting point of the metaphorical bucket is near full.
Very helpfull indeed. So how does the new booster work? Does it simply delay the triggering of hostile reinforcements once the required heat to spawn them is reached or does it reduce the heat genereated / increases the required heat to spawn reinforcements?
@@michaelzephyros7725from my research 1 player = 1 bucket
If you activate extraction alone and 3 other player roam around far away from extraction, its count as 1 player, soo it's not that hard than 4 player stuck together at extraction point
And for extra, extraction ship will waiting forever until 1 player inside the ship, soo just call extraction and when ship landing feel free to roam around
Absolutely helpful and I can say my experience was that the timer absolutely had NO effect. I went the whole 40 and they NEVER got crazy like they do after I hit the primary or sub primary.
Where is the Reddit link you said you will leave in the description?
I wish the devs made this more clear. There are tips that explicitly state that the longer a mission goes the more enemies you will face which apparently isn’t true. To make matters worse I don’t recall seeing any tips about splitting up making spawns more frequent or completing objectives doing the same.
Very well explained and presented. Congratulations on the growth of the channel! Keep up the good work.
My insight on this (coming from a 1000+ hour helldiver 1 player and 200+ hour HD2 player) is as follows:
The bucket analogy is spot on, but a little misleading in how you put it.
Under your scenario, the best way to not accumulate a lot of enemies on a map is to just always stay together, but this just isn't true.
Yes, when people are separated, they generate their own separate amount of heat which can spill over and create a scout patrol. But if that scout patrol appears on the other side of the map from my teammates and only spawns on me, and I don't set off the patrol and spawn a bug breach/bot drop, then me just leaving that area will despawn those enemies without ever having to fight them, thus resetting my bucket once again at no cost to me or my teammates. This is why single scouts with 3 others grouped up works so well.
Because the unfortunate reality is that if everyone groups up, there are almost always more enemies, which doesn't fit with your bucket analogy.
The only way I see that fitting is if it does turn into 1 bucket, but that bucket also starts to fill 4 times faster than normal but the buckets volume stays the same as a single person's. So you are making spawns localized in one area on repeat. That's why some fire fights just never seem to end after one bug breach or bot drop is called in and no one on the team leaves the area.
I still think the best way to play the highest difficulty missions is in 2 man stealth squads. Engaging the enemy as little as possible while completing 2 separate objectives at the same time. That way you still have respawns in the same area if one of you goes down, you can remain pretty unseen, and you have help if a fight does happen to break out.
Idk, that's just my 2 cents. More people always equals more enemies because they attract more attention. The best thing to do to limit your spawn rate of enemies is to just not fight them and let them despawn.
This is completely irrelevant because screen tethering prevents a squad being split up in HD1. The mechanics are different because the tethering does not exist.
@@Awoo- As you will note in my response, I never once referenced the first game other than to state my credentials on how much I've played the franchise.
My response is directed entirely at the second game and my knowledge of it.
Thus, none of my response is irrelevant.
Thank you for making this video! Speaking of sticking together as a team this really impacts solo players that play in groups through matchmaking. I specifically don't have any friends that play the game aside from some discord acquaintances but most of the time I run solo matchmaking and I've noticed that for the most part everyone like to go their own way and it can be frustrating especially when they don't have a mic and just expect you to follow them around for 40 mins so most of the time those 4 buckets are stacked in games that I play so now that you've explained it, it makes a lot more sense as far as the spawning goes. I coulda swore they adjusted the spawn rates of the chargers and titans but this makes much more sense. Hopefully they can accommodate the solo player because this is clearly set up to be a team effort
That’s crazy as someone who does 50 with friends and 50 with randos I’ve usually seen everyone just stay together
Nice wit the info. Always good to have more tools to use. 💪🏽
🙏
bro I love your background.
Thanks mate.. Did take me quite some time to make 😅
FOR DEMOCRACY!!
I definitely noticed especially on the automatons side, when you take out those large outposts, they just start sending in the dropships non stop with the big guys, i just really thought they were mad 😂
Malevelon Creek survivor here. I found its easier to solo the map vs teamwork as the agro from the team pulls in the bots. There is a battle sense, similar to cod, that is shock trooper play style. How hard, hit fast, move on, clean the map! The patrols are manageable, and you don't get swamped at the end or middle of the match.
The reddit post that describes all of this information goes into sufficient detail to set up a baseline understanding of the mechanics, with introducing the idea of a spawn point generation rate as well as a threshold value of points that when reached will spawn a patrol. They equated this to a bucket slowly being filled with water over time, emptying when full, and repeating this process. Your video skipped all of this crucial introduction to set up this understanding, took the bucket analogy, and ran wild. I understood very little of the information being presented until I looked to the reddit post and could read the source for myself. Their excel tables and map images explained these concepts in a way that sliding bucket.jpg across the screen never could. Please take the care to properly introduce your source material in the future.
There is false information in this; there are certain stages of sub-objectives and optional objectives that ALWAYS trigger a patrol to come through the objective you're at. Take the SEAF Artillery piece, for example. Starting the console always triggers a patrol, so you're better off moving the shells to the artillery for loading first. Then go activate the console, quickly load it, then if the patrol isn't too close yet, you can set the 'angle' and leave. If it is, you can let the patrol leave, though it will stop on the artillery and look around for you for a bit.
You can see these if you play the same objective types. You'll be able to see sometimes EXACLTLY what step triggers the patrol, and it always triggers in that moment, though it can spawn in a number of different places nearby. The video says that doesn't affect them but it does.
I'm the author of the reddit article and we specifically tested this question multiple times at multiple different objectives and what you are claiming is not accurate.
Interacting with elements within an objective or secondary does NOT trigger a patrol to spawn, you are simply getting 50% increased spawn rate by being at maximum Heat due to your proximity to the objective. It can make it look like using the terminals or doing things in the objective is causing Patrols to spawn but it's entirely based on the Spawn Points reaching their Threshold.
Author of the reddit article and a god'daym LEGEND
This explains so much on why my friends and I get absolutely bodied at times. XD Thank you!
Happy to help!
yo this is so helpful, thank you for making this man!
Haven't really started the video yet but all I can think about seeing the title is how groups will literally appear in front of me. I also have this consistent understanding that at the 20minute mark the game kicks up in difficulty dramatically.
I'm not going to say you're wrong or that anything was missed, but OhDough does have a convincing point that the Evacuate missions function on a slightly different spawning system. Not so much as different from what you've described, but more as in the spawns seem to target the largest mass of divers because logically you would have all 4 in the base trying to escort the civilians to the hangar. Apparently he's tested it to have 3 of a team to just run around the map while he pushed escorted the civilians and it was like a 0-2 bot drop/bug breach on him compared to the 3 getting constant drops and breaches. So that one mission or rather that one primary objective would be the one caveat to this that I might suggest, but I think it needs further testing to verify. Just something to consider because if it's true, then it's kind of weird but also really cool that there's that one off mechanic for that mission objective which normally would make sense. Again, players would be in the base moving civilians so spawns aimed on players would result in a very high challenge. But such a system would break any and all challenge to the mission if that was true and you could quite literally kite away the spawns from the civilians by just not being there. Something to consider and test, not necessarily take to heart. But thanks for clarifying this info. I'll definitely change up how I do things as I've normally been going through and destroying whatever I see and I'm usually doing the final primary objective with like 8 minutes left, the reinforce timer counting, and more than a comfortable amount of bugs or bots on me as I play solo.
Thanks for taking your time to write this response :) I agree that it does feel like there are more layers in place for the spawn mechanics and after recent patch that did some balancing changes to spawns aswell, I’ve started to see new patterns in enemy spawn timers.. as an example, when done with main mission now and moving to extract, the game almost feels empty now whereas before, it was constant action (most times)
We always clear out the nest around an objective in case it goes bad it helps ensure that if it does go bad ur not going to get flanked as easily. Leaves only random patrols to deal with.
For higher levels this can be gamechanging! Thx for your scientific reasearch 🤩
So if I'm reading this right, splitting up can "double" the spawn rate, but it's not as big a deal for two reasons:
A: you calculate your own heat separately, so 3 players standing next to an objective will spawn enemies faster than 1 player on his own out in the boonies anyway
and B: even if the solo player spawns an extra group, that group is targeted towards his location, so he's only creating problems for himself, not for his teammates.
For practical application, it sounds like if you face a patrol, you have to make a judgement call whether to kill it or let it sneak by. Since the heat is just based on time, and not on combat, you have to judge whether it's worth the time investment.
-If you can kill the squad very quickly, you're better off eliminating them from the map
-If by waiting, you can sneak in and do the objective before the next patrol spawns, you should let them pass.
Conversely, if they're moving so slowly that another patrol would spawn on top of you while doing the objective, you're better off engaging them, but only if you can clear them fast enough that another patrol doesn't spawn while you're doing _that._
Given the two outcomes, it's better to have a patrol spawn on you while doing objectives, than to have one sneak up while you're in a firefight, because you want to deal with as few enemies at once as possible.
This goes with my observations of the game: I never knew about heat, but I always thought that time on the clock increased spawn rates (turns out, it's just the heat rate increasing over time), and my most successful games were where I was keeping that in mind and balancing whether it was worth the time to deal with things like heavy bases. If a base is too well fortified, you're better off ignoring it, and if you're spending too long on a base, you're better off just cutting your losses and leaving it.
Love your longhouse background picture, would kill for a room like that ngl xD
This explains... so much about why my group has been getting overrun lately. Thank you!
Something I’d like a guide on is what sort of enemies we can expect in any given mission, because I swear you get absurd numbers of bile spewers every now and then but then other missions they barely show up
Omg best and most interesting video of helldivers I’ve seen so far. I love it
Thank you 🙏
Man, this is a greatly informative video! If all these analyses are correct, it will change how we helldivers approach the missions by a large margin!
Excellent video! Learned a lot! Keep up the awesome content!
Thanks! Will do!
Skål! I've definitely come across patrols stuck in the center of the map, I killed over 40 of them with a Stratagem and the others I gunned down. As far as strategy goes, I'd recommend do8ng the primary objects as a 4-man squad and then breaking off into 2 groups of 2. Not mentioned in this video is how the enemy units communicate with each other, which is a big part of avoiding the overwhelming wave of enemies at the extraction point. There is a video out there that explains this, way to long for a comment. Just search it.
Some maps the monsters just continuously spawn on one helldiver, so it makes sense for everyone else to split up and collect samples while one of them just runs
Wonderful!! thank you for sharing this video! subscribed!
This makes perfect sense and is why when the group splits off things can go sideways quickly
Glad it was helpful!
TL;DW: To boil down to how our behavior should look to drastically reduce total spawns, in no particular order, according to this vid/that Reddit Post:
1. Move together, within 75 meters of eachother.
This reduces the number of concurrent spawn timers, or "buckets".
2. Avoid completion of, and proximity to, Primary Objectives and sub-steps thereto.
Completing the primary objective will roughly quadruple the global patrol spawn rate.
3. Delay unnecessary respawn of slain players until combat has ended or cooled in the area.
Reinforcement accelerates the appearance of the next patrol by a random amount, between zero and more than 6x faster. However, if you can't promptly clean up without help, then call reinforcements.
4. Prompt completion of Secondary Objectives, preferably from extreme range where possible (broadcast towers, spore towers).
This prevents proximity to those locations from contributing to increased map heat which will fill the spawn timer / bucket faster.
5. Clear Outposts (Fabricators/Nests) that are on the path of travel, but don't *necessarily* clear all of them.
Destroying more than half of the absolute number of Outposts begins to accelerate global patrol spawn rate, up to +15% after eliminating all of them.
6. Avoid proximity to Medium/Heavy Outposts, except to destroy them.
Like Primary and Secondary Objectives, just being near these locations will increase patrol spawn rate by filling the spawn timer / bucket faster. Light Outposts do not do this.
7. Avoid proximity to Extraction.
Proximity to extraction *always* accelerates spawn rate by up to 50%. Calling the shuttle doesn't add any more to the global spawn rate, although it does induce those extract-related attack waves.
8. Stay clear of the middle of the map on Automaton missions.
There's a bug that causes bot patrols to travel directly there and then *not* despawn like they should.
Our Goal Completion Order Priority should be:
PoI >= Secondary/Outpost targets of opportunity > Outposts > Secondaries > Primary
Again, that's just to reduce the number of foes that we need to contend with throughout the entirety of the mission. It bears mentioning that this method will maximize the difficulty of completing the Primary Objective; however, that should most often be more than made up for by the rest of the dive being much, much easier than it would be by hitting the Primary first.
Adjust that Goal Order Priority depending upon your wishes. If you want off-planet ASAP, then obviously you're just hurting yourself doing anything but the Primary-then-Extract. If you want to balance doing more with easing extraction, stick to the Outposts/Secondaries of Opportunity and forego whatever isn't on your way.
Bug Breaches and Bot Drops are on a global timer, and the Localisation Confusion booster increases this time.
This means if you split up, and one group activates a Breach or Drop the other group are free to go guns blazin' without fearing this kind of reinforcements.
(those spawned by automatically via Objectives are not affected)
Bro, you just changed my experience. Thank you.
This is one of the most useful videos on Helldivers i've seen, thank you for putting it all together, and thanks to the original post/testers.
I find the best tactic is to keep moving. When you have to stay in one location for an objective dig in and as soon as its completed disengage and double time to your next way point. Minimize your engagement along the way. (No benefit to a high kill count) Stick and move! This works solo or in a full squad.
This video has confirmed what I thought I picked up on in the game. So far haven't played very high difficulties. But have been running around solo or duos at medium difficulty and have picked up on some of this.
Wow. I knew there were spawn mechanics, but I had no idea they were not tied to the mission timer or many of the other interactions in the game. I also was not aware that multiple players can trigger multiple spawns if they don’t stick together. This is going to change a lot about how I play going forward.
I noticed that the longer you stay in one spot, the more spawn. We figured you need to do hit and runs to the next objective.
They definitely need to make outposts REDUCE heat. The fact they they INCREASE IT is crazy.
the way you say heat just straight up makes me think of old Need for speed Most wanted.. longer the pursuits higher your heat, harder the police are. I wonder if that had an inspiration on Helldivers, they certainly have similar dynamic music which makes me happy.
I feel smart for having noticed the irrelevance of the match timer and the extreme importance of main objectives.
It makes sense when you think about it, since it's the best way to discourage people from rushing the main objective and then casually farm the map until they either have everything and extract or run out of lives
This make sense I just did a mission where u need to kill I think 425 bugs, but for some reason everyone just scattered and within 3 min we had 6 bile titans + chargers.
With the right build you can solo so 4 different buckets shouldn’t be an issue. I always run off for the samples while the team does the objectives or whatever
Boom, much appreciated, share this with everyone
Please talk about squad cooperation in different situations - difficulties, etc.
this was a very helpful explanation. keep up the good work
Something I have personally experienced however is that each "bucket size" seems to produce a different size response from the heat generated. I usually run as a solo scout that deals with optional objectives, nests, and samples, while the rest of the 3 man team focuses the main objectives and dealing with large groups. Normally when I hit a nest while the rest of my team is in a fight, the response from my bucket filling up is much lighter, than the rest of the team. When they aren't in a fight, the response is much bigger, but not nearly as big as the response they get when hitting a nest. TLDR to me it seems that my smaller bucket is both generating heat slower (only one person filling it) and splashing less heat on myself.
I was getting the feeling that every time we got snowballed it was because we were “soft spread” (prob the 75m) arround the objective without starting or finishing it.
And had the feeling that things got waaaay back in handle range when people were left dead.
So we were filling 4 buckets…
Just found your channel. Seem like a genuinely cool guy. Subbed!