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Why Did Some Infantry Soldiers Carry Short Swords in the Gunpowder Age? Pioneer Short Swords
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2019
- Short swords were sometimes carried by infantry soldiers during the 18th and 19th centuries, but one particular type of sidearm - the pioneer sword - is the focus here. Why did pioneers carry such swords?
www.antique-swo...
I never once used my M9 in combat, but I wouldn’t have wanted to be without it either. Something you don’t need until you need it. A secondary weapon that is actually useful for day to day use is a big plus if you have to lug the thing around 24/7.
As the old adage goes better to have it and not use it than dying because you didn't have it.
Imagine being a pioneer and not having a glorious full beard
Impossible
"In the areas of the world where the British army was deployed."
Matt,
That is basically EVERYWHERE.
@Dav serban Well, I suppose they weren't deployed to Antarctica...
I have a map and list somewhere of the 21 countries that the British haven't invaded some part of at some point.
@@clasdauskas invaded? That's a funny way of saying 'improved beyond measure'.
The background is very nice Matt. Well done.
Mr. Pants shiny deadbolts are shiny.
@@OurCognitiveSurplus 'tis true.
Mr. Pants This is probably nostalgia talking, but I miss the white room. Been watching him upwards of 5 years and it kinda feels like home now.
@@midshipman8654 same I've been watching for years. That's why I'm happy for Matt getting a new house.
The saw edge and double edged blade tip were used to cut lashings (rope) when storming enemy strongholds. If you think about it - a few bits of lumber and a rope could completely halt an advance. The pokey tip allowed you to work it between the wood before you could draw the serrated edge across the ropework holding it all together.
Were glorious bushy beards also a badge of office for pioneers?
In France and England yes. French pioneers still have full beards.
For a long time Canadian pioneers could wear beards when no one else could. I understand they are becoming more tolerant of beards than they used to.
Minute Man beards are now permitted in the Canadian Forces but not the bushy types.
Beards are mandatory in the Foreign Legion's pioneer corp.
Australian Army let's pioneer Sargent's to have a beard as a mark of office.
The thing about saws is, anything they're carrying while out clearing roads and trails is going to be a BIG saw, with coarse teeth. We're talking, teeth an inch apart and gullets 2 inches deep. (Look up "two man crosscut saws"). Great for fast and aggressive cutting when you just need a tree out of the way, not good for precisely cutting anything small. I could see this kind of fine-toothed saw being useful to a pioneer for making relatively small things things like tent stakes, survey stakes, pegs, or wedges. Where you are dealing with smaller stock, and want a smoother finish, than what your tree-felling saw can deal with.
Sawing with a sword is like swimming in shoes. Pretty awkward.
An interesting aside to that. One writer who taught saw sharpening techniques stated that sizable teeth and gullets were so much easier and also faster to sharpen. Fine teeth have advantages when you have the time and some sort of clamp or vice. Wood or metal,does not matter.
But getting things done in a hurry and under pressure like getting shot at,you want sharp and fast cutting. And when damaged or dulled with use,a quick few swipes brings up a working edge with bigger teeth. Less concentration needed as well.
Are you talking about US Forestry and logging saw? That kind of saw was very common in the western US, but I don’t know about it in other countries and the US saws were much less aggressive east of the Rocky Mountains. The big teeth and gullets are great for live soft conifers, perform very poorly on harder conifers, hard deciduous trees and age hardened wood.
As an avid outdoorsman I used to scoff at saw backed blades. My brother in law got me one from a modern company and I did much the same again. Then I came on a big clearing project on some fallow riverland property. I prefer not to use gloves unless absolutely needed. What I found was the saw back gave me a toothy edge and after the brush had been hacked it could be turned teeth into that brush and could then be cleared and stacked without laying hands on nasty underbrush. Salmonberrys, blackberries, devils club, that stuff will even go through gloves so not having to lay hands on the downed brush is a distinct advantage for Pioneer or trail blazers.
Ya, that is true. Actually sawing with a sword sucks though.
I can see the saw blade on those being used to notch wood to Mark where to start sawing. And officer of NCO could direct his men to make saw cute every "x" feet/meters etc. And they could just pull out the weapon/tool they always had on them to make the marks for their troops to follow. Especially if there was less measuring equipment than their were saws/axes/other tools.
Kinda in the same way the serrations/scoring teeth are used in *some* types of modern survival knives.
The "saw" edge on the back of a sword or knife is pretty dreadfully useless. One notable problem is the lack of a set on the teeth. A normal saw has some degree as set on the teeth that makes a kerf slightly wider than the actual blade. Typical handsaw blades also taper from the back to the saw edge. The combination allows the saw to clear debris from the cut as it is being made. I've tried the saw edge on both knives (they are pretty common on "survival" knives) and on a couple of short swords that resembled the piece Matt discusses, but lacking the knuckle bow and probably not British in origin. The blade tends to get stuck in the cut, especially in green wood where the saw "dust" is very wet and tends to stick to the blade and to the wood on either side of the kerf.
theeddorian seems that having the saw on the back of the blade would make it taper down through the cut.
@@ctrlaltdebug That's true, and for a normal piece of seasoned hardwood, would work. Typical modern handsaws are very slighty thicker along the tooth edge than the back. But while that helps, the tooth set, which bends the tooth out from the blade and slightly widens the cut. That allows the dust to clear the cut better. That's fine for seasoned wood, but with green timber like typical framing lumber, there has to much more set. Otheriwse, as a said, the dust wads up and jams the blade in the cut. Even on tapered blades. Living green wood is much worse. For anything that is not a full-fledged tree, an axe, machete, brush knife or similar tool is easiest. Saws need deep gullets and a wide set to be efficient. A pruning saw is a good example of a design optimized for green wood.
I experienced this on the glock knife. After actually using it I realized that back saws on knives were nothing but a trinket
@@jon2067 A lot of "one tool to rule them all" ideas have come and gone. The British Army armed - I forget the proper name - engineering/guide/scout formations with an odd cross between a cutlass and a sword in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, IIRC. Arguably, using a saw, might be somewhat easier to do quietly and with less visible motion, but I also imagine the motion would tend to telegraph along whatever branch you were cutting, so not optimal.
I'm an avid camper and all my knives have a serrated edge on one side. The sawing action comes in real handy for various uses. As a camper you want to carry as least amount of equipment as possible. That's probably why they make these multi purpose tools/weapon. I've never seen a pioneer sword before and I would love to have one.
I agree on the idea that when you're carrying all of your things on your back you carry the least amount possible, so multi purpose items are the best. But I disagree on knife serrations.
@@beaucrawford538 I don't see why you wouldn't want serrations their not just for sawing wood the serrations actually stay sharper for longer then just a ordinary knife edge so it's better if you know your going using it too cut for a extend period of time and you don't have a sharpening steel or rock on hand
@@smokybear4204 I mean you cant use the knife for batoning and other practical uses if it has a serrated back, so it has its pros and cons . Also most modern serrated knives are sadly made in china shit and useless, so many people disregard them completely as "tacticool" items
@@smokybear4204 a rule of thumb is that hybrid tools are bad at both tasks they cover. Ask any hunter or outdoorsman irl or online
@@MrPanos2000 true many of the actual stuff on the market is Chinese knock off items but even still I found good tools and such that where great multipurpose items it's just rarer and generally a lot more expensive
Sometimes equipment is bought and provided to soldiers bc your buddy owns the factory that makes it
Additionally, sometimes high command has a great idea: "let's put SAWTEETH on that pioneer's sword!" and everyone in the room harumphs approvingly through their mustaches. Later the actual pioneers get their finished sword, see the sawteeth and saw "huh. ok" and them sheath them and get on with their actual job.
1) the Israelis wondered why so many magazines were damaged and thus failing. After an investigation, they found out that the feed lips were abused as bottle openers! Thus, their first assault rifle produced by them featured a bottle opener!
2) I had quite a discussion, whether knives should be able to survive digging, prying and battoning, when for every of these uses tools exist that are so much better suited and every army should be organized well enough to supply them with said tools in due time... My unpopular opinion was, no people don't give F and abuse their tools even if their neighbor has a better suited tool...
I've read the Bottle opener on the Galil story a few times, and i've alsways thought: "they had few smokers it seems, and no issued field knives." Where i'm from most smokers open their beer bottles with the heel of their lighter. And as for soldiers, those who didn't smoke, either borrowed the lighter, or used the "thumb" side guard of the issued Glock field knife, or the side and back of the blade.
As for your second point: as mentioned, we were issued "field knives" (the Glock ones without backsaw) and on the very first day our instructor said: "get yourself a good pocket knife or multitool for any cutting, you won't use the field knife for that, and if you ever by any small chance get into close quater fighting, use your spade, because it worked well in the last 2 world wars, and it has more momentum, reach and probably a sharper edge too". The reason for all that was that we conscripts weren't allowed to sharpen the issued knife. Most certainly to not shorten it's potential service life, and with the weapon oil on it to prevent rust you wouldn't want to cut food anyway ;-)
@@nirfz nice contributions.
@@nirfz only university students know how to open bottles with their lighters.
@@arx3516 No i'm wondering, which countries habits are stranger. Yours or mine ;-)
I have seen an slr mag used the same way!
When deployed to Iraq in 2005, we were not issued bayonets but everyone had a folding knife and most people bought a Fixed Blade knife be it a K-Bar, other brands of fixed blades and even AK Bayonets bought at the Haji Mart.
I do not have a rational reason, but I prefer short swords. Lovely video, as ever Matt.
But did they have tiny little TNT boxes like in Mount & Blade: Napoleonic?
Could they build gravity defying defenses?
In 1854 the danish army issued a shortsword to all infantry.
The regulations very clearly state that it is issued as a tool and the the soldiers must not under any circumstances be trained in using it for hand to hand combat. Since that will risk them loosing their faith in the bayonet.
To quote the regulations used by the army recruit school. (written in 1855)
Question: why is the soldier armed with the saber?
Answer: So he quickly, with its help, can get true hedges and bushes, and when commanded to build huts, baskets for fortifications, get firewood and similar then he can use it as a "faskinekniv". ("fascine knife")
The part about hedges and brushes
The southern part of Denmark and northern Sleswig most fields where surrounded by thick, high bushes... comparable to the Boccage in Normandy. This make it hard to move units of soldiers, even at the 50 man platoon level. Some of the bush lines that existed in 1864 have been recreated over the past 15 years at the Dybbøl battlefield. They are very think and hard to get true, even as an individual. Turning your back and walking backwards pushing true it, is actually the easiest way to do it. But it is still slow, and not really that practical if the enemy is lying in the next line and shooting at you.
So it make a lot of sense to issue them as tools.
Also it allow every unit to help make openings wider, so infantry in formation and artillery can move true them.
photo: (me using mine in the garden)
civilwartalk.com/attachments/59286132_10219393653416889_2127353428341424128_n-jpg.305669/
Do you know what brushes that are (the actual plant name or is it just a mixture)?
Not training the soldiers in how to use their sabers in combat is unbeliavably stupid.
@@arx3516 No its not. You are thinking like a 21st century guy who have no understanding of how the danish army worked back then.
As anyone who ever trained a solder know, time is a limited resource. And when we are talking an army made up of men dong mandatory service. it is even more limited.
And that time was better spend on marksmanship and using the bayonet.
If using it as a weapon was relevant, they would have stayed with the older models that was an actual weapon. But as the war in 1848-50 showed, it was simply not used in close combat other than a few cases of fighting inside buildings. And when that happened numbers was what decided the fight.
So post 1st sleswig war, it was debated if the infantry should have a sidearm at all. And only the good argument for a tool, resulted in them getting the version they got.
When I was in the army I was in an armored combat engineer coy. I never received instruction in how to use a pickaxe or saw or a hammer as a weapon. Was that a mistake? or simply a realization that the risk of me needed to go into our toolbox and pick up something to use as a weapon, was so close to zero, that my time was better spend on drilling other things. like using my minesweeper since IEDs was a way way bigger threat.
Or simply more time on the range with my rifle.
So you’re saying, there’s a "Context?"
Planning to join up as a Pioneer in the Coldstream Guard. As someone who loves history, once I do join I’ll make sure to get one of these for my wall.
The pioneers short sword is now ties with the falchion for my favorite lesser known sword
When you said "pioneer" my first thought was covered-wagons and The Oregon Trail lolz. I'd totally rock that sword in the Wild West, much better than a big bowie IMO. That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for the in the 21st century; good length for standing swings but not excessive so I can use it to pwn grapple attempts and in confined spaces or situations, some hand protection while any more would get into the way of a fast draw and other gear and also adds another "less lethal" option, useful for being carried when I've got lots of other gear on to, I always want false edges on single-edge blades and like having a dull spine to put my hand on for support or a good "less lethal" option, etc. Keeping it short keeps it stiffer for better penetration, and I like the total geometry of that in general. I might even add that to my EDC, since I'm a laborer and that's a good design for wearing when I've got physical shit to get done. I could do without the saw edge tho, I never cared for them on machetes or found them any good at sawing things that could just be chopped. I'm not planning on building a house or making a reinforced dugout in a trench any time soon! It's cool that I can chop wood with it! I've slain hundreds of full-size trees with my machete (before high school I'd made a dead zone in the forest visible from landing planes and Google Earth!), and it made me sad to learn most swords can't just be used to whale on giant trees with impunity. I like my tools and weapons to be as tough as Kalashnikov and Glock (even more rugged and reliable). If I was to have a saw blade on there, I'd rather have it on the forte, for use as a close range "sawing" attack if I don't have space for a cut or thrust.
I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks a lot. I hope ZombieTools makes a version some day lolz. If I ever have to use the one I get, I'll be sure to send you a nice gift for helping me pick the ideal 21st century sword for my context - if I survive.
As a former butcher, a finer saw blade like this could be used to quarter a medium sized animal like a sheep or pig, and help to process larger animals into carriable pieces (along with an axe and regular knife). Although Wellingtons army was discouraged from pilfering from the locals, paid for livestock would be taken alive as there was no refrigeration and salt was a further commodity to acquire. I'm given to believe wounded horses and oxen were not wasted either. You said Pioneers set up camp, maybe they traditionally butchered the required animals too pre catering corps.
What i would have liked, is for him to saw trough a 2by4, or so, to test how well the saw can actually saw something.
InrangeTV kind of has you covered: th-cam.com/video/ckNWB8nC1TU/w-d-xo.html
I'm going to suggest that the saw edge was there to be used in an emergency, when a proper saw wasn't available. Broken, lost, seized, etc. Just as they used it as a sword when things got shitty, the infantry didn't do their job, the cavalry snuck around the infantry, who were doing their job, etc.
It could be the fact that saw backs tend to be rather harsh on scabbard's is a contributing factor to the Rarity of surviving examples
More if captured with one get shot
@@demonprinces17 I was speaking more to the Rarity of surviving scabbards rather than examples of the sword itself
Nice little sword, I want one! Thank you for looking at enlisted ranks' side-arms, I've always been interested in them.
As a Cabinet Maker myself, I know there are different patterns of saw blades with different patterns of saw teeth for different jobs. There are rip saws, for cutting along the length of wood (big teeth), there are cross-cut saws, for cutting across the width of wood (small teeth) etc, etc. Anybody who has bought a saw at the garden centre will know the saws for gutting green (not seasoned) wood are big and highly pointed, for cutting through the wood quickly. So it's difficult to understand the job that the particular teeth pattern found on those Pioneer Swords were meant for, as they are not big enough for cutting through green wood quickly and efficiently, like an old fashioned rip or bow saw. Don't think they would be much cop for doing that.
In a german arms magazine an author wrote: the trench knives of world war I saw more sausage fat than human blood. In a artcle about the bayonnets of the flintlock and early percussion era i have readen , the soldiers used this bayonnets as candle holder, kitchen spike to prepare meat over a fire or to fix tents. In Germany Pioniere are engeneer troops. Formerly there had been Sappeure/Zimmerleute who build or repared bridges, huts or wood and earth fortifications. In case of a siege they had to destroy the enemy fortificatons and to dig the necessary trenches and ditches. A Mineur/ Bergmann had to dig tunnels under enemy fortress walls and to work with explosives. The german word for this pioneer sword was Faschinenmesser, as other comment writers correctly wrote. Some of them had been better as tools, some had been better as weapon. This weapon/tool mix was used by pioneers, gunners and medics (to cut a short stick to fix a wounded arm or leg or two long, stronger staffs to make together with some jacketts a emergency transport device). As my grandfather, died in 1997, said , the word ,Faschine' for such a bundle was still used by the Wehrmacht. In civil life we swabians call a Faschine a ,Krähle', the mostly elderly people who make them still now to start a fire in a stove or oven use a billhook for this work.
Funny when you think of how Faschienen and Faschismus and some other words share the same origin...
This made me also think how gun breech is related to a breeched defense and the brisance of explosives...
@ edi. My English is not so good as you might think, i do not know, what breeched defence is. As far as i know ,Faschismus/fascism(?) comes from the latin ,fasci', which meant a bundle of thin sticks wrapped around the shaft of an axe. Roman judges or compareable officials had an escort of some men carring such stick/axe bundle as a sign of authority. Those bundle carriers had been called , Liktor (?)', and the ,lictors bundle' became the sign of Mussolinis partie.
@@brittakriep2938 yes. Bundles all go their names from that Roman symbol.
Breech originally meant to break, being broken or ability to break.
@ edi. To finish the discussion now, you are right it is often astonishing, what is the story behind some words.
mr. matt easton your clarity on the subject of anciet weapons is very deep. i appreciate all your videos , i have the pleasure in watchin these fearsome tools of war and peace .
I've owned a Gerber machete with a saw on the back for years (the price was right), and I've used it a fair bit in the garden and clearing the fire trail on my Uncle's property. I don't think I have ever used the saw edge other than testing it out once or twice.
You'd think the knuckle guard would make sawing difficult.
I was a Combat engineer. We still have pioneer kits, but with machetes now.
Those short swords I imagin would be used much like a cutlass, or a machete.
Oh, wel you said it, lol
Not only pioneer for example in the French army of Napoleonic era every infantry soldiers carried a short sword,but was used has tool.Thanks for the channel and the good work always wonderful to fallow another stream of History
I had one marked to the Scots Guards. Blades are usually in good shape unusually for swords without scabbards.
I've heard that in the 17tch century, Pike and shot era some commanders didn't like issuing swords as the men were more likely to use them for chopping firewood rather than fighting.
Do a video on briquets?
yes please
Noice. Pioneers are so underrated
I'd say their overserrated 🐻
@@smokybear4204 Well done, sir!!!
Thanks for the video. I expect it's a coincidence but on your video about bayonets I commented that's I'd love to see a video on a pioneer sword, and here we are! Pleasant surprise, and a great video as always.
Sent that before the part about the scabbard. I have one with the scabbard but it's in very bad condition. The tip end is missing, and the leather is detached from the metal upper part on the hilt. So yeah... seems they fall apart.
It would be nice to see a professional assessment of the sword bayonet issued to the Rifle regiments during the Napoleonic period.
I remember reading about how during the napoleonic wars, basic French infantrymen were issued a short curved sword to function in close combat. Of course these were primarily moral boosters as the bayonet was the primary close weapon. This was further compounded by the fact infantrymen would often use their short swords to chop small pieces of wood for fires. I imagine the british army experienced something similar and thus took it upon themselves to issue a short combat sword with a razor back for use as an entrenchment took and for cutting wood. The Germans also had a saw back bayonet during world war 1, likely for this same purpose. Nothing is ever issued without good reason, unless of course we are talking about canadian world war one, shield shovel, a completely useless piece of equipment that neither functioned as a shield or a shovel.
Matt, I'd love a similar video covering the Elcho sword-bayonet used in the 3rd Ashanti War of 1873-74.
Matt, its not surprising the guy use edge instead of the point. Maybe these had a fame to became stuck due to the saw edge and, as you said, these are used like hanger and sabers, predominantly for cutting.
I like the new backdrop
That's such a pretty sword
Badge of office. As a handtool woodworker i can say that the weapon would be useless as a saw.
There is a great video on Inrange’s channel where they use a wwi sawback bayonet to saw some logs side by side with a real saw, it worked better than I expected.
In modern armies there are almost no bladed weapons. Basically, we can see tools that can be used as edged weapons. This sample is interesting because it has tendency to utilitarianism, like ak 74 bayonet. He is the ancestor of the modern blades. The main difference it is more weapon than tool, while ak 74 or m7 bayonets are more tools, rather than weapons.
We used our bayonets to break up the ground when we laid down wire entanglements. Always follow the rule "2 is 1, 1 is none" so the more you abuse the bayonet edge the sharper you can keep your nice knife edge.
Did they issue spades or just had to figure it out?
I have a small heavy spade type thing i modeled after what cold steel calls a spetznaz shovel.
I seem to recall entrenching shovels as part of required kit as well. Lol
I saw a video somewhere of someone using a pioneer sword as a saw, and it was only slightly less effective than a real saw.
Forgotten Weapons sister channel, InRange. I love their mythbusting content.
I have one with naval markings with the teeth still present.
If this is your new "studio" I like it very much! Great video, Matt!
This makes me think of the Woodman's Pal, a land/brush management tool that was initially issued to the US Army Signal Corps and later to pilots as a tool and secondarily as a weapon.
In a modern context: where would you prefer a Sawback?
Machete
Survival knife
Entrenchment shovel
Yes, there are a lot of items like these that some guy thought would be useful to put a saw back on it. I know that the U.S. Army bayonet had a saw back to it that probably wouldn't hardly work on anything as the bayonet is very short so you don't have a long enough stroke to be able to saw anything and the teeth were way too fine. Also some of the 20th century bayonets have a feature that you can hook the bayonet to the scabbard and have a wire cutter but it's super impractical when you can actually just draw wire cutters from supply if you think you're gonna need them in breaching wire obstacles and such. It's just something you build into common equipment that everyone has in case you're in a bind and you don't have access to all your tools and such. You have to keep in mind also that when you get supply items that you have to unbox in the field they often come in crates and things like that pioneer sword you have are great for busting into supply crates or making kindling for fires which is super important in the field.
The British have a better pioneer designation use than the US. Always had pioneers for the army, but the confusion with the term sapper and engineer has been around since the Civil War. The average person couldn't tell you what the WWII pioneer tools were and why. Maybe a few more can tell you that soldiers had a entrenching tool but they would call it a folding shovel. As to effectiveness, if you are desperate you can make anything work rather than dieing. That short sword would make a good long knife or rifleman ' s knife.
Were those pioneers trained in swordsmanship like cavalry and infantry officers ?
A serrated blade works really well for slashing brush.
I bought a Glock Survival Knife 81 that is a spiritual descendant of the Pioneer Sword. Can't say that the saw "blade" is any more useful, especially considering the blade is almost a quarter inch thick at the back. I think they decided that soldiers were most likely to use it as a prybar, so they designed it as a prybar first, a bayonet second, and a saw a very distant third. Probably why the Austrians only ever adopted the one that doesn't have the sawblade for military use.
Edit: Oh, I forgot the bottle opener built into the gaurd. So it's a prybar first, a bottle opener second, a bayonet third, and a saw blade a very distant fourth.
I love the informative content (as always), but I must ask: is that stubble a comeback to the wonderful facial growth we've seen previously?
I think they were used for cutting something that was relatively soft (hence little wear) in a situation a pioneer might encounter so often that fetching a saw or axe every time was impractical. My two guesses are roots and rope (that is not on a surface where chopping with a blade was possible). Like a modern box cutter it was something that everyone carried because it was often useful and light (being on the back of a sword they had to carry anyway). I doubt if the teeth would have enough depth for serious sawing of wood. They would clog to easily and sword would not allow enough pressure to be put on. But for rope and roots and the odd small cutting job they would be perfectly adequate.
In close quarters combat a blade comes in handy, the tomahawk has returned to the battle field ,in bothworld wars, Korea, and Vietnam the use of specialist knives was a common thing .
In WWI, Germans in particular sharpened one or both edges of their entrenching tools. Heavy and devastating on a strike,trench raids and similar. That way,just one tool to carry,multiple uses including as a sort of frying pan. So yes I am sure you are correct but there is more than one way of obtaining the desired effect.
A little more info on the Pioneers would be awesome, the axes, the beards, the leather gauntlets and aprons-
A very distinctive unit.
Pioneers didn't start out as a unit, that happened later
Two were picked from each company. So you could have 20 or more in the battalion.
The British Napoleonic era Pioneer carried a heavy tool (axe, mattock, pick) and a light tool (spade, saw etc) as well as a billhook on his belt.
Even today the Pioneer Sargent is expected to grow a full-set
Got one Russian, though I sold it ages ago. It had normal small cross handguard, and blade was bit heavier with fuller.
Forgotten Weapons/InrangeTV did a demo of a WWI version.
Question: for engineers is this the best? Or should they just have a saw backed machete?
Sword backed saw
Combo tools are notoriously bad away both tasks they were designed for. The is no substitute for a saw if you need to saw something. The German entrenching tool is the only combo tool/ weapon which was pretty good at both tasks.
If you have a saw machete, go try sawing through a decent sized branch, then try cutting the same branch with a proper saw. You'll find out just how inferior the saw machete is for the task.
Context matters. When as well as where?
@@grahamnelson203 The "german e-tool" that i got issued is pretty much the same the US military got. I found the "serrations" on it pretty much not usefull and we were prohibited to sharpen them, some did anyway but when you left the army and you had a sharpened etool you had to pay for it.
Their actuall use in hand to hand combat is in my pov questionable. Can it be used as such? Sure but the old ww1 ones were better for this.
Obviously the machete, it's way cheaper and does the same thing
If you can look at the «Faschinenmesser» (german word). It is more like a sawback machete but was also given to pioneers and iften used to make «Schanzkörbe» (again german).
Short swords can be useful. As far as modern day goes one is still likely to be attacked with things like machete & bill hooks in places like South America, Africa & SE Asia. In such environments almost everyone carries a machete etc.
If your being charged by cavalry the ability to take out the horse with a well aimed blow to the legs especially if you have had no time to reload your weapon is a big plus as Pioneers / Engineers would have been working in set positions & then they would have had to fight from those positions ready or not. The ability to improvise defence is paramount in those circumstances.
The saw back is used for cutting the bone on the Sunday joint.
Seems akin to the large western bowie knife. Spits wood, and splits enemies just as well. Handy dandy tool to have out in the rockies
Sorry to “point” out the obvious. However, how can you saw anything with the guard in the way? Also what is the Rockwell hardness for a saw versus a sword. Therefore, saw edge is ornamental. Or, good for scaling fish. Therefore, the decommissioned job for a pioneer was the local fish n’ chips shop.
I wonder if the saw edge tended to get stuck after a thrust. Also, that account of the saw edge being used in combat may have been because it was some sort of grappling situation where the enemy was too close for an efective slash so the pioneer chose to saw into the guy; I don't know, it's just what I imagined when you mentioned it
I love short swords. I don’t know why, but I do.
They got some merits especially today. They are easy to carry, fast to draw and you can use them indoors (much better than baseball bat's most idiots keep for that purpose)
Thank you
Do you know if the troops back then were actually trained to use these short swords or were they just issued with no training leaving the user to fight as the user saw fit?
I bet that every one that got one of those swords tried the saw at least once. It seem more legit then those tiny sawblades that come on some modern tools like a leatherman or victorinox (if something is small enough to use those pesky saws on, it will 100% of the time be faster to just break the tiny twig off).
I've sawn through 2x4 with my Leatherman saw. Surprisingly quick, too.
@@ericlipscomb4764 really? I have only tried on green lumber, and it was faster to carve thru the logs with my Mora instead.
I'd like to see a soldier try to perform a battlefield leg amputation with a blade with no teeth at all... So I'd say that a serrated short sword blade might not be as useless as we might think. Ok Mr Matt Easton, now you'll have to do a series of vids covering the Royal English Farrier spike axes!!!
Pioneers in US Forces are called Combat Engineers.
The Imperial German Army issued a saw-back bayonet which was intended to combine the utility of a saw with the weapon function of a typical general issue bayonet. However, the British and French made propaganda hay from it. "See how beastly is the vile Hun. He isn't content just to stab you, he's got to rip out your guts as well." It got to the point that German soldiers believed that if captured with a saw-back bayonet the Poilus and Tommies would shoot them out of hand. By 1917 the saw-backs were withdrawn from service and replaced with plain bayonets.
British were ahead of the curve for the zombie apocalypse sword
That's a cool hat at 1:40min
I would hypothesize that the saw edge would have been very useful in the old days … one example would be to cut thick rope in a hurry. "Couteau de Chasse" or hunting swords often had saw blade backs and were commonly used by seafarers who called them "Cuttoes" … why did seafarers like them? Probably because they cut a lot of rope … so they became cutlasses - from Wikipedia "Owing to its versatility, the cutlass was as often an agricultural implement and tool as it was as a weapon … In their most simplified form they are held to have become the machete of the Caribbean."
Always thought the british word for pioneer was sapper, the americans say pioneer, the british say sapper. Also i remember readind on the german Faschinenmesser wich is roughly equivalent, they were among other things suposed to be use to fashion bundles of Reisig (sticks or thatch) used in field fortification, Faschinen being italien for said bundles. It sounds plausible, making bundles of large ticks seems like something a sawback knife is use full at, hacking thru the small using the saw for particular resistant pieces.
A sapper is an engineer in the Royal Engineers. It is specifically what they call someone who would hold the rank of private if they were infantry. A pioneer is a infantry soldier who has training in basic engineering tasks. In the modern army an infantry battalion has a combat support company with a mortar platoon, a reconnaissance platoon, an anti armour platoon and a pioneer platoon. The Pioneers are equipped and trained to do things like laying and cleaning mines, creating and clearing obstacles and building field fortifications. They have limited resources and if the job becomes too big, the battalion commander would request assistance from his higher headquarter controlled Royal Engineer assets. This is where you find pioneers in the 21st century.
To make it more complicated there was an organization in the British army called the Royal Pioneer Corps, which is now part of the Royal Logistics Corps. As far as I know they are a continuation of the Labour Corps from WW1. This is not what Matt is talking about here.
Sapper is the rank of a Private in the British Royal Engineers and engineer units of commonwealth countries. Then you have Assault Pioneers in Infantry units who are light engineers but belong to their infantry battalion and nobody else (Engineers being a brigade asset).
Privates in Assault Pioneer platoons are still Infantry Soldiers on a posting (Will go back to a Rifle Company after a few years) and are called privates.
Thank for the clarification
If the Pioneers are working and fighting what is the rest of the army doing?
Camping.
Raping and pillaging?
Lots of things. As an example, when the army is on the march, the pioneers go forward, lightly equipped, cutting off tree branches and filling in ditches, reinforcing bridges etc. so the rest of the army can advance without interruptions.
When the pioneers are constructing defensive fortifications, the rest of the army is defending them, patrolling forward of the defences.
Just a few examples.
If I thought I could be attacked by animals or ambushers in the brush and was trying to clear a path then I'd want a Pioneer sword in my hand rather than strictly a brush clearing tool which would be a sub par weapon.
Lions and tigers and bears..... Oh my!
Great video as always, and one of your comments got me thinking. What accounts of animal attacks / surprise encounters do you know of? How were Empires of the time training troops for surprise encounters with lions and tigers and bears (oh my)?
Do you have an example of the sword bayonet issued with the Baker Rifles in the Napoleonic Wars? I think that would be worth a video on it's own.
Looks similar to te famous french Briquet short sabre.
Have you ever attempted to cut through a brass hilt?
i believe only a sgt in the pioneers can grow a full beard..
Why was there no mention of Infantry soldiers carrying short swords in the video?
sounds more like a scout to me
Weird how we never trained with bayonets yet they're still being used and were a considerable asset during the initial surge.
It's almost like a long pointy stick is an effective weapon...
I have a hard time seeing that used as a saw. I don't have experience with swords, but I've sawed a hell of a lot by hand in the wilds, and I can't see getting a good grip with leverage on that. Not as long as it's sharpened, and even if it hadn't been, the handguard means you can't grip the handle while sawing. If the handguard was removable and you had something to protect your hand from edge it might work though.
Actually, they compare favourably to a modern military machete. Clearing brush for bn. mortar platoon, I can see it. Modern Assault Pioneers are tasked with bn headquarters defence, was that the case in 19th C?
How much does the D guard get in the way of using it as a saw?
I really like that 😊
It does seem odd that the blade wasn't wider. If it's going to be used occasionally as a machete, then why not shape it like one? Elements of the British Army were using kukras at this point, so they would have been aware of the benefits of a more functional tool that can use used to defend yourself.
The Gorkha soldiers of the Indian Army carried daggers and also used them to chop the heads of Pakistanis in Kargil war as recently as 1999.
Gorkhas (or Gurkhas to some) carried a bladed weapon that was far from a dagger. The tool was called a Kukri (with various spellings), the Gurkhas have been famous for the use of the Kukri for years.