Mearsheimer just speaks with such clarity and wisdom he makes all these neocon experts on russia look like kids in big boys club. Thank you for this excellent discussion. Mearsheimer is one of the consequential IR scholar in the world today.
Not really. Like I just pointed out he claimed Putin would not attack Ukraine. Also his excuse making for Putin in recent times after the current war started is not impressive.
@@user-xf4es7eh9y Did pointing out Mearsheimer's screwups hurt your feelings? I could do a Mearsheimer and try to rewrite history (say ignore the British navy enforced the Monroe Doctrine or that the Cuban Missile Crisis was over missiles) but informed decisions tend not to be made that way.
@@pplr1 regardless of what you think of Putin's intentions, if you were Putin you would have done exactly what he did. There was very little leeway for Russia in its reaction to the expansion of NATO, because the choice that was presented boiled down to either keeping the sovereignty of the state or yielding it to the western powers. Russians experienced what the latter feels like in the 90s, and the public opinion was strongly against this outcome. NATO is an existential threat to Russia. You may say whatever you like about cruel invasion and all that, but these words are only fitting on CNN, NYT and other outlets that manipulate the people using emotions. Emotions don't change the reality on the ground. You are trying to point fingers on this basis, but it doesn't work that way in state level politics. Whatever you think of Russia being inherently evil, Russia did what it had to in this context, and you don't have to be a Russia sympathizer to understand that. This is what Professor is explaining again and again. If Chinese wanted a military base in Mexico and a military alliance with Mexico, the US would have responded in the harshest way as well.
@andrewvelichko3868 "if you were Putin you would have done exactly what he did" Big no. Russia is a wealthy nation with a lot of land to be used-I would do internal development. "NATO is an existential threat to Russia" NATO is a threat to Russian imperialism-not to Russia. If Russia wasn't intent on invading other nations or massacring people on Europe's doorstep then there would be little reason for Russia to be troubled by NATO. Putin is the 1 threatening sovereignty of other nations right now-especially Ukraine. He was doing it within the few years prior to this war by claiming Ukraine supposedly wasn't a real nation despite Ukraine being older than he is. Never said Russia was "inherently evil", at 1 point many years ago-over a decade and a half ago-I actually had much greater hopes for Russia and Putin in specific. His many actions since then have disproved my prior naivete and optimism. "Russia did what it had to in this context, and you don't have to be a Russia sympathizer to understand that" Yes, one really, really, has to be. Or, more accurately, an excuse maker for Putin. "If Chinese wanted a military base in Mexico and a military alliance with Mexico, the US would have responded in the harshest way as well." Repeating Mearsheimer's debunked claims here? The "Cold War" of all things disproved this. Cuba had an alliance with the Soviet Union throughout most of the Cold War. Now instead of buying into the "expansion of NATO" lie and bit of propaganda lets address the possibility of if Putin has other motives. And yes, the phrase "expansion of NATO" is both a lie and propaganda. NATO didn't start claiming lands that are part of other nations and then try to move borders-that is Putin. Other nations wanted to join NATO and did. So if concern over NATO is a lie what other possible motivations are there? 1. Old fashioned land or resource grabbing-Ukraine has resources Putin may want to exploit both agriculturally and fossil fuel related. 2. Market consolidation/monopolization-Russia has some of the same resources as Ukraine so removing Ukraine as a competing nation/state cuts down on competition. 3. Attempting to revive imperial glory-despite having control over lands than about any other nation on the planet Russian Czars at 1 point controlled a greater amount of Europe than now, thus Putin may want to rebuild an old empire. 4. Concern that the threat isn't NATO but that Russia cannot use mountains as its Eastern border-mountains are easier to defend from. 5. Stupid ideas. Never underestimate the power of a bad or stupid idea. There is an argument people are rational yet-especially when their emotions get to them-this argument gets put into question every week that goes by. Attempting a stupid idea can result in counterproductive results yet new examples of people attempting or engaging in stupid ideas have not stopped occurring.
great conversation. However, I was a bit disappointed that despite the Turkish audience, no one asked him any questions relating to Turkey. I was looking forward to hearing his opinions in a new topic, as oppposed to Palestine and Ukraine, both of which he has previously talked at length about.
The Colak guy was very weird. "I do not agree with anything you said Mr. Mearsheimer. And I think everything you said is wrong. I will not dispute or explain anything, just gonna mention that." What is the purpose of his statement? What was he trying to achieve here?
I would say don’t take him literally. He was just trying to say he had a differing view on the issue for which he could not provide evidences within the brief time he was given.
@@hal339 I agree with you on what he meant. But here is my point: there is always an alternative opinion on any subject yet there is a time and place to share it. Why would one spill the beans if it doesn't add anything to the discussion?
I haven't been as disappointed as in this video for a long time. Even though all the questioners were Turks, no one thought of a single question about how much the current situations would affect Turkey? Instead of this, they all came together and made Mearsheimer retell the same topics he keeps repeating everywhere. If you wouldn't ask to explain or answer anything new, then why did so many people come together and shoot a 2-hour copy-pasted video? How is this different from the millions of videos that appear when you type "Mearsheimer" on TH-cam? It doesn't make any sense other than it being a deliberate choice. I feel sorry because it could have been a very satisfying video about Turkey, which we had never heard of anywhere before. But a men's club chose to waste this great opportunity. Pity
Thank you Mr. Mearsheimer. If Russia can somehow keep the territories in Ukraine and force Ukraine to a ceasefire, I was wondering what will stop them to go in say Georgia or Kazakhstan.
The answer depends on whether Russia has the same security concerns regarding those countries joining NATO as it does with Ukraine joining NATO. Russia already recently invaded Georgia for related reasons. If Mexico formed a military alliance with China and hosted Chinese heavy weapons, the United States would take military action against Mexico. The lesson: ignoring the clearly stated and legitimate security concerns of nations leads to war.
@@Mman. the legitimate security concern of which nations? In todays world it seems that only those who have nuclear weapons have a right to have security concerns. What about others? Can't ukraine, georgia or any other nation decide to join any military alliance like NATO? It might also be an alliance with china. The point is do weak or small nations have to follow their stronger neighbours will?
@@jediTempleGuard a nation can believe whatever it wants and it can decide to do whatever it chooses; however, there will be consequences. Therefore, it is imperative that every nation accurately assess the interests of others to predict how they may react. Self righteous attitudes can obscure clear vision. We see the consequences of unrealistic thinking in Ukraine.
The Russian do not havy need in invading Kazakhstan nor Georgia. For example, Kazakhstan is between China and Russia, and so there are both Russian and Chinese strong interests there. Invading that country would mean running into a serious trouble with the Chinese, and even with the rest of the former Soviet republics as well. Having the possibility of doing something does not mean that you have the necessity of doing that: nothing stops USA of invading Mexico or even Cuba, but they do not that. You need a very serious reason to go to those lenghts.
@@5Cd2 I was referring to russian officials claims like: "Kazakhstan simply did not exist, Northern Kazakhstan was not inhabited at all and that the current territory of Kazakhstan is just a generous gift from Russia and the Soviet Union” or... "Russia has a “legitimate” right to claim back the territories it has ceded to Kazakhstan upon its declaration of independence" Bearing in mind same rhetoric was used before ukranian invasion, i guess no one can undermine the possibility of russian invasion.
I question the 'realism' of someone who takes for granted nation-states and 'power politics'. Studied as a living being, a human being has no NEED for nation-states. (We all need rich flora and fauna; and all nation-states of our time appear to be bent on destroying them --at different rates.) It is true that, in our time, most 'stateless' persons are worse off than the citizens of even some of the poorest nation-states. But this is due to the deliberate policies of empires, nation-states, and city-states that ended up gobbling up most livable places on our planet. If a large part of humankind managed to put an end to antagonism among empires, nation-states, and all organized human societies, our species would be in a better position to solve or alleviate the countless problems that we face today. Some of these problems were caused by people who bought into the 'wisdom' of people like Mearsheimer. The minute that the man speaks of the rationality of manufacturing and maintaining nuclear weapons, a more sensible moderator could have cut off his mike, and apologized to the rest of the participants for having bothered to organize this meeting.
I totally agree with you. I would like to ask you about what way do you think that we can stop the actions of this organised agressive herds who are nationalistic and religious social 'ego's? With the actions of unleashed desire for power and wining of headless money monster called stock market we are probably doomed. People of USA are not given the chance to choose a peace lover president. They are forced to choose between the same policies one worse than the other. None of what they choose to do in the interest of people but mainly in the interest of weaponary, pharmaceuticals, grain producers. Trump has given the way to Israel anyway. He was a better tool for Israel than any other USA president. That's why he will be elected again just remember the way he talked in the day that Jerusalem has been claimed as the capital city of Israel. Which was architectured by his son in law Cushner. Trump was a better tool for Israel and I am afraid of the crazy religious and nationalist fantasies of powerful lobbies the problem will get worse. Unfortunatley what is happening in Israel will feed the terrorism. And the line between the terrorism and the fighting for freedom will get thinner. It seems like what we are only left is praying for peace. 😢 So do you see anyway out?
With all due respect, two points. You can’t refer to what is taking place in Palestine and Gaza as a War. Secondly you can’t refer to Gaza as a Prison. War is between states. Slaughtering women and children who can’t defend themselves is NOT a War, it is a War Crime. When would SOME countries in the region take some tangible steps to help instead of just talking.
John Mearsheimer well known Geopolitic Scientist, highly influential & respected in China,Russia,USA,UK & Australia...not admirable in Western countries 😢
It is puzzling that the Professor in his analysis reinforced the US’s hostile position towards China. US sanctioned China after WWII; US relaxed the sanctions in 1970’s and invited China into the WTO. US, and Europe have traded with China since. The acrimony stems from the fear of unbalanced of trade in terms of capacity and ability on the part of the US. COVID and what it has revealed changes everything. We need to ask, why such hostility since trade is still on-going and the virus is a US-China joint enterprise! They are collaborating, not competing. Are we watching theatre?
In 1970s is era of Cold War. The primary antagonism is between Soviet and US, not between US and China. Plus China back in Cold War is not in par or coming close with US on military superiority
On your point about US and China is collaborating doesn't refute Mearsheimer's argument about security competition between US and China. Security competition doesn't mean they will be no interaction between US and China
You need to study in detail real World History - the role of the western allies in the scramble for concession in China. The relationship between the US, Chinese Nationalist’s Party (the Kwok Ming Tang) headed by Cheung Kai Shek, and the communist’s party led by Mao between 1900- 1947. The US sanctioned Communist China who was in alliance with the Soviet Union. In another word, the ‘cold war’ with China started long ago. Many western educated intellectuals tended to have a gaping hole in their world history. Therefore, their analysis often partial making it difficult for them to address contemporary problems.
@@Ritastresswood marxist sphere of soviet union was freely trading with each other india, china, cuba, north korea, angola, congo, laos, etc etc... what did it bring besides corruption and hogging of wealth and power by the top communist leaders who were supposedly for the people... soviet sanctioned poland, hungary, czechia, bulgaria, etc...
America tried nation-building for 20 years in Afghanistan. We lost because this is more mass psyops and occupation of a population with insurgency resistance fighters to turn them into a liberal democracy. The project failed, but luckily we left, which is the good news. On the other side of the coin, Israel wants to attempt ethnic cleansing, but USA has a threshold for what it allows Israel to do, and has already placed sanctions on violent settlers. They won't be able to succeed with ethnic cleansing because USA will cut its support, and Israel risks further horizontal escalation with the regional forces and their sea lanes will be at risk as well. Their tourism will also suffer since no one will visit due to the lack of stable security. Conscription into the army will also pull people off needed manual labor force. Israel is facing a tumultuous future if they don't see that redrawing the map to physically separate the two populations is the only solution. Urban warfare with tunnels against an occupied population with resistance fighters is not a viable solution. They will do that forever.
dude.. please... this section is for civilized men and women only, not for racist or ignorant people. If you have the ability to articulate anything related to the topic please do so. If not, then either do not pollute this area or just...
Mearsheimer just speaks with such clarity and wisdom he makes all these neocon experts on russia look like kids in big boys club. Thank you for this excellent discussion. Mearsheimer is one of the consequential IR scholar in the world today.
Not really. Like I just pointed out he claimed Putin would not attack Ukraine. Also his excuse making for Putin in recent times after the current war started is not impressive.
@@pplr1 Okay thanks for your input. Now back to dayjob at Wendys.
@@user-xf4es7eh9y Did pointing out Mearsheimer's screwups hurt your feelings? I could do a Mearsheimer and try to rewrite history (say ignore the British navy enforced the Monroe Doctrine or that the Cuban Missile Crisis was over missiles) but informed decisions tend not to be made that way.
@@pplr1 regardless of what you think of Putin's intentions, if you were Putin you would have done exactly what he did. There was very little leeway for Russia in its reaction to the expansion of NATO, because the choice that was presented boiled down to either keeping the sovereignty of the state or yielding it to the western powers. Russians experienced what the latter feels like in the 90s, and the public opinion was strongly against this outcome.
NATO is an existential threat to Russia. You may say whatever you like about cruel invasion and all that, but these words are only fitting on CNN, NYT and other outlets that manipulate the people using emotions. Emotions don't change the reality on the ground. You are trying to point fingers on this basis, but it doesn't work that way in state level politics.
Whatever you think of Russia being inherently evil, Russia did what it had to in this context, and you don't have to be a Russia sympathizer to understand that. This is what Professor is explaining again and again. If Chinese wanted a military base in Mexico and a military alliance with Mexico, the US would have responded in the harshest way as well.
@andrewvelichko3868 "if you were Putin you would have done exactly what he did" Big no. Russia is a wealthy nation with a lot of land to be used-I would do internal development.
"NATO is an existential threat to Russia" NATO is a threat to Russian imperialism-not to Russia. If Russia wasn't intent on invading other nations or massacring people on Europe's doorstep then there would be little reason for Russia to be troubled by NATO.
Putin is the 1 threatening sovereignty of other nations right now-especially Ukraine. He was doing it within the few years prior to this war by claiming Ukraine supposedly wasn't a real nation despite Ukraine being older than he is.
Never said Russia was "inherently evil", at 1 point many years ago-over a decade and a half ago-I actually had much greater hopes for Russia and Putin in specific. His many actions since then have disproved my prior naivete and optimism.
"Russia did what it had to in this context, and you don't have to be a Russia sympathizer to understand that" Yes, one really, really, has to be. Or, more accurately, an excuse maker for Putin.
"If Chinese wanted a military base in Mexico and a military alliance with Mexico, the US would have responded in the harshest way as well." Repeating Mearsheimer's debunked claims here? The "Cold War" of all things disproved this. Cuba had an alliance with the Soviet Union throughout most of the Cold War.
Now instead of buying into the "expansion of NATO" lie and bit of propaganda lets address the possibility of if Putin has other motives. And yes, the phrase "expansion of NATO" is both a lie and propaganda. NATO didn't start claiming lands that are part of other nations and then try to move borders-that is Putin. Other nations wanted to join NATO and did.
So if concern over NATO is a lie what other possible motivations are there?
1. Old fashioned land or resource grabbing-Ukraine has resources Putin may want to exploit both agriculturally and fossil fuel related.
2. Market consolidation/monopolization-Russia has some of the same resources as Ukraine so removing Ukraine as a competing nation/state cuts down on competition.
3. Attempting to revive imperial glory-despite having control over lands than about any other nation on the planet Russian Czars at 1 point controlled a greater amount of Europe than now, thus Putin may want to rebuild an old empire.
4. Concern that the threat isn't NATO but that Russia cannot use mountains as its Eastern border-mountains are easier to defend from.
5. Stupid ideas. Never underestimate the power of a bad or stupid idea. There is an argument people are rational yet-especially when their emotions get to them-this argument gets put into question every week that goes by. Attempting a stupid idea can result in counterproductive results yet new examples of people attempting or engaging in stupid ideas have not stopped occurring.
great conversation. However, I was a bit disappointed that despite the Turkish audience, no one asked him any questions relating to Turkey. I was looking forward to hearing his opinions in a new topic, as oppposed to Palestine and Ukraine, both of which he has previously talked at length about.
The Colak guy was very weird. "I do not agree with anything you said Mr. Mearsheimer. And I think everything you said is wrong. I will not dispute or explain anything, just gonna mention that."
What is the purpose of his statement? What was he trying to achieve here?
Virtue signal
I would say don’t take him literally. He was just trying to say he had a differing view on the issue for which he could not provide evidences within the brief time he was given.
@@hal339 I agree with you on what he meant. But here is my point: there is always an alternative opinion on any subject yet there is a time and place to share it. Why would one spill the beans if it doesn't add anything to the discussion?
Thank you Prof. Mearsheimer! Organize ettiğiniz için ayrıca teşekkürler
what John said was well known all along, but it's not that easy to hear it from an American, especially such a professional American.
I haven't been as disappointed as in this video for a long time.
Even though all the questioners were Turks, no one thought of a single question about how much the current situations would affect Turkey? Instead of this, they all came together and made Mearsheimer retell the same topics he keeps repeating everywhere. If you wouldn't ask to explain or answer anything new, then why did so many people come together and shoot a 2-hour copy-pasted video? How is this different from the millions of videos that appear when you type "Mearsheimer" on TH-cam? It doesn't make any sense other than it being a deliberate choice.
I feel sorry because it could have been a very satisfying video about Turkey, which we had never heard of anywhere before. But a men's club chose to waste this great opportunity. Pity
Harikasınız çok teşekkürler
Prof just nailed it.
You are amazing, John Mearsheimer
Excellent discussion!
Mükemmel🙏🙏🙏
@19:55 on top of all
the people love the honorable professor.
Henry Kissinger - 'It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.'
Thank you Mr. Mearsheimer. If Russia can somehow keep the territories in Ukraine and force Ukraine to a ceasefire, I was wondering what will stop them to go in say Georgia or Kazakhstan.
The answer depends on whether Russia has the same security concerns regarding those countries joining NATO as it does with Ukraine joining NATO. Russia already recently invaded Georgia for related reasons. If Mexico formed a military alliance with China and hosted Chinese heavy weapons, the United States would take military action against Mexico. The lesson: ignoring the clearly stated and legitimate security concerns of nations leads to war.
@@Mman. the legitimate security concern of which nations? In todays world it seems that only those who have nuclear weapons have a right to have security concerns. What about others? Can't ukraine, georgia or any other nation decide to join any military alliance like NATO? It might also be an alliance with china. The point is do weak or small nations have to follow their stronger neighbours will?
@@jediTempleGuard a nation can believe whatever it wants and it can decide to do whatever it chooses; however, there will be consequences. Therefore, it is imperative that every nation accurately assess the interests of others to predict how they may react. Self righteous attitudes can obscure clear vision. We see the consequences of unrealistic thinking in Ukraine.
The Russian do not havy need in invading Kazakhstan nor Georgia. For example, Kazakhstan is between China and Russia, and so there are both Russian and Chinese strong interests there. Invading that country would mean running into a serious trouble with the Chinese, and even with the rest of the former Soviet republics as well. Having the possibility of doing something does not mean that you have the necessity of doing that: nothing stops USA of invading Mexico or even Cuba, but they do not that. You need a very serious reason to go to those lenghts.
@@5Cd2 I was referring to russian officials claims like:
"Kazakhstan simply did not exist, Northern Kazakhstan was not inhabited at all and that the current territory of Kazakhstan is just a generous gift from Russia and the Soviet Union”
or...
"Russia has a “legitimate” right to claim back the territories it has ceded to Kazakhstan upon its declaration of independence"
Bearing in mind same rhetoric was used before ukranian invasion, i guess no one can undermine the possibility of russian invasion.
Mearsheimer starts @4:32
You can tell Mearsheimer read the NYT before he gave his talk; and maybe the Washington Post. So informed. Wow!
I would suggest you go back on TH-cam to as far back as 2008
@@SuperMerlin2005 Is that when he was impressive?
@@gregdeane8937 do you have an actual critique? Or just snarky comments.
ilginç bir oturum. Ama guzel.
Só a Russia para organizar isso
He is the best
I question the 'realism' of someone who takes for granted nation-states and 'power politics'. Studied as a living being, a human being has no NEED for nation-states. (We all need rich flora and fauna; and all nation-states of our time appear to be bent on destroying them --at different rates.) It is true that, in our time, most 'stateless' persons are worse off than the citizens of even some of the poorest nation-states. But this is due to the deliberate policies of empires, nation-states, and city-states that ended up gobbling up most livable places on our planet. If a large part of humankind managed to put an end to antagonism among empires, nation-states, and all organized human societies, our species would be in a better position to solve or alleviate the countless problems that we face today. Some of these problems were caused by people who bought into the 'wisdom' of people like Mearsheimer. The minute that the man speaks of the rationality of manufacturing and maintaining nuclear weapons, a more sensible moderator could have cut off his mike, and apologized to the rest of the participants for having bothered to organize this meeting.
I totally agree with you. I would like to ask you about what way do you think that we can stop the actions of this organised agressive herds who are nationalistic and religious social 'ego's? With the actions of unleashed desire for power and wining of headless money monster called stock market we are probably doomed. People of USA are not given the chance to choose a peace lover president. They are forced to choose between the same policies one worse than the other. None of what they choose to do in the interest of people but mainly in the interest of weaponary, pharmaceuticals, grain producers. Trump has given the way to Israel anyway. He was a better tool for Israel than any other USA president. That's why he will be elected again just remember the way he talked in the day that Jerusalem has been claimed as the capital city of Israel. Which was architectured by his son in law Cushner. Trump was a better tool for Israel and I am afraid of the crazy religious and nationalist fantasies of powerful lobbies the problem will get worse. Unfortunatley what is happening in Israel will feed the terrorism. And the line between the terrorism and the fighting for freedom will get thinner. It seems like what we are only left is praying for peace. 😢 So do you see anyway out?
With all due respect, two points. You can’t refer to what is taking place in Palestine and Gaza as a War. Secondly you can’t refer to Gaza as a Prison. War is between states. Slaughtering women and children who can’t defend themselves is NOT a War, it is a War Crime. When would SOME countries in the region take some tangible steps to help instead of just talking.
John Mearsheimer well known Geopolitic Scientist, highly influential & respected in China,Russia,USA,UK & Australia...not admirable in Western countries 😢
It is puzzling that the Professor in his analysis reinforced the US’s hostile position towards China. US sanctioned China after WWII; US relaxed the sanctions in 1970’s and invited China into the WTO. US, and Europe have traded with China since. The acrimony stems from the fear of unbalanced of trade in terms of capacity and ability on the part of the US. COVID and what it has revealed changes everything. We need to ask, why such hostility since trade is still on-going and the virus is a US-China joint enterprise! They are collaborating, not competing. Are we watching theatre?
Hegemony. Chinese power is threat to U.S. global hegemony.
In 1970s is era of Cold War. The primary antagonism is between Soviet and US, not between US and China. Plus China back in Cold War is not in par or coming close with US on military superiority
On your point about US and China is collaborating doesn't refute Mearsheimer's argument about security competition between US and China. Security competition doesn't mean they will be no interaction between US and China
You need to study in detail real World History - the role of the western allies in the scramble for concession in China. The relationship between the US, Chinese Nationalist’s Party (the Kwok Ming Tang) headed by Cheung Kai Shek, and the communist’s party led by Mao between 1900- 1947. The US sanctioned Communist China who was in alliance with the Soviet Union. In another word, the ‘cold war’ with China started long ago. Many western educated intellectuals tended to have a gaping hole in their world history. Therefore, their analysis often partial making it difficult for them to address contemporary problems.
@@Ritastresswood marxist sphere of soviet union was freely trading with each other india, china, cuba, north korea, angola, congo, laos, etc etc... what did it bring besides corruption and hogging of wealth and power by the top communist leaders who were supposedly for the people... soviet sanctioned poland, hungary, czechia, bulgaria, etc...
1:19:38 / 1:47:18
America tried nation-building for 20 years in Afghanistan. We lost because this is more mass psyops and occupation of a population with insurgency resistance fighters to turn them into a liberal democracy. The project failed, but luckily we left, which is the good news.
On the other side of the coin, Israel wants to attempt ethnic cleansing, but USA has a threshold for what it allows Israel to do, and has already placed sanctions on violent settlers. They won't be able to succeed with ethnic cleansing because USA will cut its support, and Israel risks further horizontal escalation with the regional forces and their sea lanes will be at risk as well. Their tourism will also suffer since no one will visit due to the lack of stable security. Conscription into the army will also pull people off needed manual labor force. Israel is facing a tumultuous future if they don't see that redrawing the map to physically separate the two populations is the only solution. Urban warfare with tunnels against an occupied population with resistance fighters is not a viable solution. They will do that forever.
Are the women permitted to ask questions?
What kind of a question is that?
Thankfully no
dude.. please... this section is for civilized men and women only, not for racist or ignorant people. If you have the ability to articulate anything related to the topic please do so. If not, then either do not pollute this area or just...
Apparently the women did not have questions. Am I missing something?
master manipulators playing victims again.