Your Die Bushing Matters! - Choose the correct Die Bushing
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2021
- Choosing the correct die bushing is a critical step to your resizing process. I explain how to choose the correct bushing size and show you how different brands perform when it comes to the sizing diameter as well as concentricity (runout). I compare these values from a Redding Type S FL bushing Die and show the unexpected results of a FL die, a Redding Busing in .288, and the new Short Action Customs bushings in .287.
See how these Compared on Target here: • Die Bushing Performanc...
Check out my Amazon Store front: (affiliate link)
www.amazon.com/shop/boltactio...
(a portion of the price you pay helps support the Channel at no extra cost to you)
Subscribe for more informative videos: goo.gl/pMHmvu
DISCLAIMER: This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission. This helps support the channel and allows us to continue to make videos like this. Thank you for the support!
Videos on this channel are for informative, and entertainment purposes only. Using any of the information is at the risk of the individual using the information. We (including TH-cam) will not be held liable for any injury to yourself or damage to your firearms resulting from attempting anything shown in any our videos. By viewing or flagging this video you are acknowledging the above.
See How these bushings compared on Target! th-cam.com/video/KqB4wrHO7fQ/w-d-xo.html
Does the SAC bushing for inside the Redding die? Your video didn't show a SAC die so I thought the SAC bushing must work in the Redding die
It works in redding die as well as several others
@@BoltActionReloading Thank you for the prompt reply!!
Hi Mike no problem some days I am better than others.
Im newer to reloading but was lucky to find Short Action Customs early on, I love everything they make!
That's a fantastic result, you can't really ask for anything more than that.
Only been loading now for about 1.5 years and I just started cutting 556 brass to create 300 BO and I'm learning as I go and now I see your video and it gives me something more to think about. Thanks for the great video and info. I will be subscribing, as it looks like you really know what you are talking about.
BAR GUY best youtube site on reloading hands down. thank you
Thank you for sharing this information. I've had the same concentricity issues you describe with bushing dies and it looks like SAC has solved the problem. Thanks again!
Hi Sonny, I was very surprise the difference that it made. Glad you enjoyed the video!
I’m a big fan of the SAC bushings. I’ve been slowly collecting my common sizes over a few months and they work great.
Thumbs up for the SAC products, I have their sizing die with bushings for 6.5 CM and I'm getting great results. I also have the headspace & bullet comparator awesome products. They keep coming out with more great products.
Glad you are getting great results!
I also had concentricity issues with Redding bushing dies, and switched to Forster dies custom honed to my requirements. Some folks are passionate about their bushing dies and claim near zero runout, and say I am doing something wrong. I am happy to see you have the same results with bushing dies as I have. I now exclusively use Forster full length sizing dies for almost no concentricity runout.
Hi Tom, I don't think we are alone in this. I haven't tried the custom honing service yet but I expect good results with it.
Oh shit......something to spend more money on! lol
I’ve had the same experience from Whidden as you have from SAC.
I'm sold
Thanks for the heads up!
Happy Independence Day
Same to you!
This is great info! It makes a clear case for the SAC bushings. I'm in contact with them to order a 0.282 bushing for my 25-06 Remington brass and will probably order two more for my 223s. I use all three rifles for long range rock chucks and need sub MOA accuracy. I'm there in all three but there is always room for improvement. Glad I found this site.
Glad you find it useful!
Great video. I ordered the SAC comparator last month, it’s just a better design. Gonna try some bushing now, thanks for the info.
Hi Sean, Glad you found it helpful!
Thanks for the information and video. Very good
Hi Dwayne, Glad you enjoyed it!
I wish you had done the Hornady since that is what I have. Great video and love the data driven approach to things.
I have had the same findings with the Hornady as I have had with the Redding.
Great info! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, will do!
In fact you should get a kick back for selling us on this company’s bushings. I’ve never heard of them or their bushings but will be making an order after watching.
Interesting information as usual. Probably like most everyone I'm trying to yield best results from my reloading process. So videos like this gives information worth considering. I've been using Whidden bushings for a while now...but thinking I might give the SAC bushings a try.
Hi Tim, I am glad you are enjoying the videos! When I saw the claim about better concentricity I thought it was unlikely but I have been impressed with SAC so I gave them a whirl and am glad I did. I will certainly be using these in future content.
@@BoltActionReloading While I'm still contemplating ordering up some SAC bushings, decided to experiment. Ran a little tighter bushing on my annealed Lapua brass then use Lee Collet Die...the seating force felt very consistent, with a light but "firm" resistance from case to case. Guess we'll find out if it translates to consistency at the range.
Are the Whidden bushings not machined in the same manner as SAC bushings? Looks like it also has a gradual/guided diameter before narrowing after the case mouth has entered the bushing.
....SAC looks like black nitride where Whidden offer gold nitride. Anyone with an opinion and preference with regard to the one over the other?
I just picked up the SAC bushings at MidwayUSA for $26.99 each. I already had them in my cart at SAC at $35 each, but decided to check Midway since I already had an order in progress there. I'm glad I did! I saved $16. But thanks to you, I spent $53.98 on bushings! Dang you!
I use the Benchrite bushings. They are in Carbide and more expensive - they align on the neck like the SAC bushings.
Thanks for the info.
Great video. Great explanation
Glad you liked it!
I use a S die in .308 with a Wilson .335 bushing and a carbide expander button set as close to the bushing as possible on Lapua brass. Only once in the last 5 years was I able to set the die up, ( after a cleaning) with around.001” runout.
I will definitely be looking into those bushings
Good Luck!
More videos on the expander mandrel please.
Very cool video today.. those bushing apparently are very good!
I was very surprised how well they performed.
I've often wondered why the Redding bushings don't have a pronounced taper on one side. Will definitely try the SAC bushing as I continue to develop loads for my new 6.5 PRC build.
Sharper neck-shoulder junction?
Great info. I use a TiN Coated Redding bushing to neck 6.5 Grendel brass down to 6mm. Im getting ready to process all this brass from its first firing, and will look strongly into buying a few of these!
I was very surprised on the results, I still need to see if there is a real difference on paper but the first results are promising.
@@BoltActionReloading It certainly can't hurt! I use a Hornady bushing die on my 6 CM, so it will pull double duty. Sinclair mandrel to set 2 thou neck tension, which works great.
I contacted SAC through their website to ask about a bushing for my 25-06 and sent them a link to this video. Since you posted this they have sold out of their neck bushings! You're a hell of a salesman.
Well a good product tends to sell itself. I am guessing people just didn't know about them before as I did not. Down side for me is I haven't ordered my 308 bushings yet.
@@BoltActionReloading oops. They are 8 to 12 weeks out with an order of many different sizes totaling 5000 pieces. We need to be patient.
I would be interested to see the results of full length resizing with a bushing and then following up with a mandrel as well.
That's what I do. Get very consistent results and very low run out.
I would too. I'm thinking about changing my method
You know... like how everybody does it. Haha
Yes, please test bushing plus mandrel
Yes that's what I do. Redding TiN bushing and a Sinclair Carbide mandrel. Seems to work.
I make what I call a square up on the lathe out of 1/2" barstock with a hole drilled through the middle which is for the decapping rod. When using bushing dies that to just BP the shoulder that aren't to where they aren't touching the shell holder I put the square up in between the shell holder and die. Put pressure on the ram and just snug the die enough it won't looses. With standard seating dies that are turned back a full or half turn after contacting the case mouth it's very important to use the square up. Threads are so coarse u can actually have the die misaligned with the shell holder if you don't do this. It's exactly why Lyman use to make the Tru line press with Tru line dies that were fine thread. For dies with a floating sleeve like redding comp seating die I don't use the square up because the die is made to make up for any misalignment. If I buy a forster with a floating sleeve it's the benchrest because it's steel with a stiffer spring, the ultra micro die is aluminum top and we're blowing the cap off so forster went to a weaker spring problem is it's to weak that it can't correct misalignment at times. Both 1000yd benchrifles I built my 7saum and 6xc I use lewilson micro chamber seating dies and a sinclair arbor press but for those two only
Just ordered a .313 Short Action bushing
I use bushing dies and use the size depending on my chambers neck diameter, I average well under 1/4" 5 shot groups, usually around 1/8"
Excellent.
I use Hornady custom shop bushing dies with RCBS tungsten disulfide finish in 269 and 270 bushings for my 6 creed, forester Ultra Mic seater, using Hornady, ADG and Alpha brass, most of the time the needle doesn't move when checking runout with my Hornady concentricity tool.
Great information, I to gave up on bushing dies and use full length sizing dies. My latest rifle is the Bergara Ridgeback in 28 Nosler, it’s my ELR rifle. I’ve purchased the Hornady Custom sizing die, Redding and Forester. The Hornady die gives the best concentricity but it sizes the neck 0.18 under the 21ST Century mandrel die I use. Yesterday I ordered the L. E. Wilson Neck sizing die and their .310 & .311 bushings so as soon as I saw your excellent video I went on the Short Action website. Unfortunately they don’t make a .310 nor a .311 bushing. Hopefully they will in the future and I’ll certainly order what I need. Thank you for your work
Hi Cory, they have a contact us section if you have interest in a particular product I wouldn't hesitate to ask if they plan on making the sizes you are looking for.
@@BoltActionReloading Thank you. I emailed them and asked if they had plans to make the three bushing sizes I needed with the one in the middle being what I figured I need. I also asked if they would let me know if they are going to make them so I could buy them before they do. That way I’ll get them before they are sold out. While on their website I saw their precision sizing dies and am impressed. Have you tried their precision sizing die yet? It’s expensive but I’ll bet it’s worth every penny. Thank you again.
I have thought about trying the die out. It looks quite nice but I don't really "need" one at this point.
On an unrelated reloading subject. I recently learned of a new method for reloading belted cases. From what I understand you take an over sized mandrel or expander ball and run it through the neck of a piece of new unfired brass. For example for a 308 diameter projectile you would run approximately a 338 diameter mandrel through it. Then you would begin to run the piece of brass into the resizing die in small increments. Between each progressive increment you attempt to chamber the brass in the intended rifle. Once the false shoulder/over expanded neck is sized far enough down the neck to allow the piece of brass to be chambered in the rifle you go ahead and load that piece of brass. Once fired in the intended rifle the piece of brass should essentially be fire formed to that chamber with minimal stretching/thinning above the belt. Of course the piece of brass is now only reliable in the single rifle and would not be totally reliable in austere environments. I hope that I have explained that well and was curious if you had any experience with this method, or how it would compare to other options such as the Larry Willis die. I was considering this practice with a 375 H&H I'm doing load development for. Thanks again for the great videos and knowledge you provide.
Sounds like fireforming to a new cartridge. Bench rest shooters make a false shoulder when converting brass.
I recently tried this on some 308 brass that had been severely bumped back at the shoulder. 0.010 to 0.015 less than the fired brass. As a comparison, I also shot similar brass with the bullet loaded long (0.005 jam) and some control rounds with no special procedures. While the false shoulder did give improved results over the control, the bullet jam method was better still.
If your goal with the 300 wm brass is to lengthen the shoulder to case head distance by taking brass from the neck shoulder area rather than lower in the case body, both the false shoulder and bullet jam method might be worth a try. Keeping loads to the minimum end of published data of course.
@@keith9737 I appreciate the info. I've never personally used either method but am interested in testing both. The jam method is new to me but sounds like it has potential. Thanks again.
Glad you did this video. This has been my exact experience with every bushing die I have tried. Would be great if a few new bushings fixed the problem because getting custom dies can be a pain. I believe the Wilson bushings have a similar design as the SAC bushings but I am getting .002-.004” runout on the 6ARC Wilson die I have.
Hi Brian, I won't make any promises but the results I got were what was in the video. If you decide to try them out let me know your results!
@@BoltActionReloading well holy shit…. I just got my bushings from SAC, ordered a .333 for my 308. Dropped it in my Redding die and sized 5 pieces of annealed FC gold metal brass. All 5 pieces were less than .001” total runout and measured .333 neck diameter. Then I changed back to the Redding .333 bushing and all pieces of brass had .004-.005” TIR w/ OD of .327 on the neck. I’m speechless, I’ve fought with these bushing dies for so long and never could get good results. Thanks again for doing this vid!
Hi Brian glad to hear. When I saw the numbers I was shocked myself. I hope that others get similar results.
Hey mate! been a long time follower of the channel and of the many videos of the SAC bushings, so much so that I've bought them for my 6.5CM reading S-die. just wanted to get your thoughts on how the SAC Bushings compare in performance to the Wilson Bushings which claim to be "tapered internally" similar to that of the SAC Bushings. I wanted to see as I'm getting into the 6mm space (requiring new bushing sizes) and buying the SAC bushings in my area of the world cost a heap in comparison to the wilson bushings. Thank you for your vids and getting my reloads more consistent!
thank you for doing this.......
Glad you found it useful!
I'll chime in by saying that I've used RCBS die bushings and, although it does have a slight bevel to help align the case necks to the bushing hole, the run-out seems to match your Redding example - roughly 0.001" as a general rule, with some odd-balls going to 0.002 and 0.003". It should be noted, however, that I'm still using the standard expander ball, not a mandel.
I have two of these bushings. The problem I'm seeing is when I adjust for .002 shoulder bump, then I am only doing a "partial" resize of the neck. I thick I want a little more purchase on the bullet. All that being said , the proof is in the shooting. I would like to see a comparison shootout between your full length resized/expander mandrel process and the SAC bushing method.
Interesting! Makes me wonder what the concentricity of the inside of the neck looks like. With Lapua brass that already has a very consistent wall thickness at the neck, it should be excellent. But would less expensive or non-neck-turned brass do better with the expander mandrel method?
Thank you for the video it's a great discussion. Perhaps your concentricity results with the bushing die may have something to do with your neck uniformity. I turn my brass down to 0.012 and then I use an LE Wilson bushing guy that is . 285. The worst I've ever seen is 002 and that is rare. I have been wanting to try the SAC bushings but they're always out of stock and quite honestly a bit pricey. Thanks for the video again!
Your good!
Awesome video. I have also obtained better concentricity from my Forster FL sizing die over the Redding bushing die. I'll have to try the SAC bushings! BTW, have you tried the SAC sizing/seating dies? They're out of stock now (and very pricey), but If they're bushing is this good, I'd be interested.
The reason you are getting better performance on the non bushing die is because the bushing die is specifically designed for turned brass. If you aren't turning the brass, it won't make adequate contact. The non-bushing die is essentially taking your neck and squeezing it down 0.010" while the bushing die is only going down as far as the bushing you chose, which is typically only 0.002 for bolt guns. If you aren't turning your bass, just go non bushing and leave the default expander ball in.
How does the SAC bushing affect the shoulder of the case? Is there any impact on the "doughnut" that usually results from bushings? Thanks for the great videos you put out. Keep up the great work.
I would assume (still need to test it) that the "donut" would be even less of an impact since it would not size as much closer to the shoulder, but you could accomplish the same thing by not sizing as much of the neck I would think.
Thanks. Your video tutorials are very helpful and understandable. I have been giving thought about changing a few items in my process concerning case prep. This video helped me decide which route I will take. Is crimping part of your loading process? Thanks again
Hi John! I am glad you are finding value in my videos. I do not currently crimp (I used too) as I have never found any value in it. I have a crazy sizing video planned and crimping will be included in it so stay tuned!
@@BoltActionReloading Great! I will be waiting. Thanks again
Recently I have built myself few brass bushings for my Redding s dies on my lathe. And they work the same way as the original. Strangely I found all the Redding bushings .001" narrower then the stamped numer. The ID measured with a pin gauge.
Im about to take the plunge with die selection.SAC appears to be a company Id be content to buy once cry once with.For full length sizing die, would you suggest Forster, or Redding bushing die? P.S love your videos.Best Ive seen.
Maybe for part two of the video you can compare sd/es of those two bushing dies after shooting.
I certainly will have that data if I do.
Very interesting material - since I am getting into reloading - I got most of the gear already, but still no bushings, I might go as well and start with SAC bushings.
I wanted to ask how much concentricity affects what we will get on target, but I see that there is a follow up video on this exact topic.
But what about a simple idea: if the "entrance" of the bushing is what makes the big difference -> wouldn't it be an idea worth trying out to ad a chamfer to a standard bushing (not the premium with special coating, because this would damage the coating), or simply (with a piece of sandpaper) smooth out the entrance in order to make the entering of the brass into the bushing better, just as it is with the SAC bushings?
Maybe you have an old steel bushing that you could spare to test this?
Did you know that the Redding bushings are slightly conical?
The side with the numbers has a smaller diameter.
If you flip the Redding bushing, the picture with the bushing on the brass looks different.
Interesting!!!!
Glad you think so!
Interesting stuff. I see the bushings are only in limited sizes. Hope they expand the range in time.
When I first bought mine they had less. I think they are expanding slowly.
@@BoltActionReloading They just contacted me and do have .308 bushings. I just need to decide which size I need. Thanks for all the videos, very helpful being new to rifle reloading.
Edit: meant to add the postage to the UK was almost as much as the bushings so I didn't bother. I'll wait and see if they get a UK supplier.
Is there a “better of both worlds” by using a SAC then a Redding? Seems like the Redding, with its sharper leading edge would create sharper neck-shoulder junctions and thus a slightly longer bearing surface.
Question is...how do they shoot? Great Video
That is a question that we will need to answer! Thanks.
Without knowing how uniform the neck thickness is, will we know for sure how well a "prefect" outer concentricity will prevent runout after seating?
Listened to Eric Cortina and a couple other competitive shooters. Then ones I listened to all stated they do not neck size that it makes no difference in the performance of the ammunition. I don’t know. Thoughts?
Great video. I wanted to ask your opinion on something. If one is using the SAC modular sizing die with the SAC bushing, is it still necessary to use an expander mandrel after sizing? I ask because SAC has mandrels specifically for their modular die, and I am hoping to gain some insight as to why it's a necessary additional step. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi RIck, I am hoping to look into this a little more in the future. I guess it really depends how good your brass is. I have had pretty good luck without the expanders but I may add one and see what happens.
BAR
@@BoltActionReloading Thanks BAR. I usually use Lapua, but will use Alpha and ADG as well. I may try with just the modular die, and then add on the .2620 and .2625 mandrels a bit later for more testing (6.5 PRC). I'd love to see your results as well if you end up going down this road.
Would love to see a reloading for dummies with all what you consider premium everything and must have. Where’s the best place to buy a press with everything you consider the best. I’ve been looking at 750xl rl 1050 and apex 10. So much information it’s hard to remember it all lol
Definitely a turret for precision reloading. I recommend the Redding t7 over the Lyman . Accurate Arms is where I order Redding equipment.
If you aren’t neck turning would it be advisable to undersize with an SAC bushing and use an expander mandrel to open it up slightly, or is just using the proper size SAC bushing alone the best for consistency and performance?
If you aren't neck turning, just use the standard non bushing full lenght sizing dies. Bushing dies are for neck turned brass.
Bolt Action Reloading has become my favorite reloading channel!
The SAC bushings appear to have a lead-in taper which makes sense as it sits lower on the case mouth. I think this is important as it centers and guides the case mouth perfectly into the bushing. That said, I'm wondering if the shorter sized surface area can account for the lower seating pressure. The coating itself, appears to be a DLC coating, may aid in it working the brass less.
Annealing: Do you anneal before sizing the brass regardless whether it's full length or neck only sizing? I'm wondering if annealing then sizing vs sizing and annealing last impacts the seating force and how does it affect accuracy.
Another outstanding video!
Glad you are enjoying the content. What is the loaded diameter if the neck you are loading for? As a good baseline I have been shooting for at least .003" less than that. In fact this weeks video is similar to this one just a different caliber.
BAR
@@BoltActionReloading I'm reloading the 308 Winchester. The loaded case neck diameter is .336
I thought I saw a number originally of somewhere around .2XX but looks lie you edited it so I didn't know what you were currently using. I just ran a test on the 308 win and haven't published it yet. My loaded round dimeter was between .339 and .340 (Its federal brass and is a little over .015" thick) and I tested 334 to 338. This weeks video is on 300 win mag and started out at .336 and I tested 331 to 335, I like the results most around 332, but its complicated. Which one were you using?
@@BoltActionReloading I did edit my comment because my fingers can't seem to spell..LOL
I'm using a carbide bushing with an ID of .333. Several years ago I had bushings made from .3330 to .3370 in .0005 increments. I wish I'd gone lower perhaps .331 giving me more flexibility.
I'm using Hornady Match brass with a wall thickness of .014 giving me a loaded neck diameter of .336.
I try not to work the brass any more than necessary and always use a .306 mandrel as a final step giving me the .002 bullet tension.
I can't wait for the 308 Winchester testing to post, it'll be a keeper for sure!
@Bolt Action Reloading who's neck expander mandrel is that shown at approx. 4:14 of this video?
That set is from 21st century reloading
I've always fl sized with just bumping back the shoulder a couple of thousands and with a size adjusted mandrel and was ok with run-out. Not now. These videos just cost me money. Lol.
Here is my observation. The further backwards we start worrying about concentricity, meaning we have a fired case from the rifle and now we begin the reloading process. 1st off correcting as many issues from a fired case, which is basically a blue print of your chamber will help your consistency with no doubt. With that said. I must have a completed reload to then check the concentricity of the bullet that is loaded in the case. And if at that point there is .002 or less of run out existing on the bullet seated in already in case. What other issues are there for concern????
What I’m trying to say is that I’m not arguing not to have a perfect neck but why don’t we wait to have a seated bullet before checking concentricity in the first place??? Imho
I get .0005 or less with a Wilson FL sizer and stainless bushing. Keep everything loose...the bushing and the die itself. The die has .001 or less from full contact with the press same with the bushing. That being said...run out doesn't matter.
I went to SAC website, they say their bushings only fit on their dies. What model are you using, and did they discontinue making them for other die bodies?
There are 2 styles. One that is for their dies that does both neck and shoulder. The ones that I show here are SAC neck sizing bushings that state "with universal outside dimensions of .500" diameter by .375" height ....." they are also available at midway I believe.
Really dumb question here....is a Short Action Customs bushing compatible for use in FL bushing dies from other companies like Redding and RCBS?
If you pick the universal bushings, yes. They don't have a compatibility list, but I use them in redding dies. I'm not sure about rcbs, but I'm pretty sure they work in hornady dies. You can always email them if you have any questions.
I don't understand why you bumped down to .287 instead of .288 for the SAC die if you're looking for .002" of neck tension.
how do you make it fit on a Redding die
If you anneal every few firings, I just don’t see why you wouldn’t cut to the chase, FL resize with any sizing die with the expander guts removed, then expand with a mandrel. You get low concentricity, and don’t have to buy another bushing die and SAC bushing. I agree the SAC bushing looks great, and would be just the ticket, IF you weren’t following up with a 21st Century mandrel. I can’t see the need for both, but am open to being educated. (?)
SAC haven't come out with anything new here. L E Wilson's bushings have had the same taper for years.
Hey Michael. you're right about the L E Wilson bushings. They have a .003" taper and a good radius for the neck to enter. I was hoping that they would be included with the Redding and SAC bushings. The SAC bushings have a different shape. They are bell mouthed at the entry to let the neck enter easily, then they have a slight .0005" taper from there.
I currently have just a standard FL Die, Is it worth upgrading to a Bushing Die or just finish with a Mandrel and call it a day?
If you have the performance your looking for I wouldn't change. I can't stop tinkering, it's an addiction.
@@BoltActionReloading I can't stop tinkering either the damn Rabbit Hole sucked me in so I'm trying to take a knowledge advantage of those of you that are deeper than me! I've been primarily hunting so far but debating PRS/local Long Range Comps that are pretty common in Utah. So I know I need to cut down my ES/SD a but more. That's why I was leaning towards just keeping my standard FL and running a mandrel.
What was the runout with a Redding .287 bushing? Not a fan of any particular manufacturer, but the test provided is comparing a 0.288 bushing to a 0.287 bushing. How do we know that a Redding 0.287 bushing wouldn't provide the same concentricity runout as the SAC?
Hi James, I stated that I don't have a 287 bushing from redding. I only had a hornady in that size previously. For me the bushing size hasn't mattered it gave me similar results. Could have used a 286 or a 289 I have seen this kind of variance. If I had used the Hornaday 287 all the commentors would have said to use a redding. If I had tried 4 types of bushings their wouldn't have been enough samples. Welcome to TH-cam comments.
@@BoltActionReloading understood about the critics. I watched your video twice, and then went to SAC's website and saw that their bushings are unique in how they made. Unfortunately they are out of stock for the 0.287 with 6-12 weeks of backorder. Plan to get one, once they are back in stock. Great channel btw.
Thanks James, glad you enjoy the channel. If you pick one up let me know what your results are.
It seems to me the bushing die wouldn’t give consistent neck tension unless all your brass had been neck turned to a uniform thickness.
I totally agree! Maybe I just use crappy brass, and admittedly I have multiple heads stamps, but I am certainly going to neck turn everything before I commit to a particular neck bushing. I stopped neck turning after my first batch because I did not like the results on the Hornady neck turning machine. It was not very smoothe by my standards. Maybe I didn’t do it right. I’ll give it another go.
Will the SAC bushings work in the Redding type s die?
Yes
I am using a .291 bushing and the seating force on my K&M press is 80-90! This is once fired Lapua brass that I have annealed. Why is it taking so much to seat?? Using Redding bushing die to size brass
That does seem like quite a bit. Are you champher and deburring well? Also brushing out the case necks?
@@BoltActionReloading Wow, I guess in my rush for power and glory I forgot 2 very important steps-made all the difference. Seated around 40 after chamfer and deburring. Thanks!!
@@s.manuel7969 great to hear!
Has anybody else heard or read that in order to set up the Redding bushing die correctly, you leave the the threaded top internal “bolt” slightly loose? You should be able to shake the Redding S die snd here the bushing go “click”, “,click” on the inside.
There is a ring on the die to keep it from moving but yes the bushing should be slightly loose. (we are talking like 1/16 of a turn here)
BAR
Yes, but the sound you're looking for is "Clock", "Clock" which gives you .00002" runout. "Click" "Click" is not as tight..
I know it is like a year later, but thank you BoltActionReloading
Have you tried Mighty Armory dies yet?
I have not. I may at some point but am not really looking to but more dies at this point.
Any considerations for neck turning?
I am sure this may make a little difference but I really think that unless you have a chambering that requires neck turning there is a ton of benefit. Using good brass is the first step. (IMO) I may revisit some neck turning content soon but for everyday reloading I have just stuck with higher end brass and been happy with its performance.
Have you used Wilson Bushings?
I have not tried them.
I am trying the Sinclair mandrel for 223 and I am not getting the results I expected. I full length resize with a Redding FL with the expander ball removed, and then I follow up with a Sinclair mandrel. The results are disappointing, both in terms of SD and group size. I discovered that the mandrel pushes my shoulder back. I use Norma brass and I am having the same results with once fired brass and with 3 times fired brass.
Same story with Redding S dies. On the other side if I FL with the expander ball and then I use a mandrel, then I get better results. What am I doing wrong?
How much resizing are you doing with your expander and are you using any lube?
@@BoltActionReloading My fired Norma brass measures .253 OD./.226 ID I am using a .243 Redding bushing since my loaded rounds measure .245.5.
I use Redding Imperial Dry Neck Lube. Thank you.
The Redding "normal" FL die without the ball expander brings the neck to .239 OD 216 ID
Ok run out is half of the total measurement. What you are talking about is TIR total indicator runout
Mighty Armory F.L. sizing dies & you won't have a problem. Also, don't buy anything made by Lyman, with the 1 exception being the old No. 55 powder dispenser.
Isn't bushings are used for shoulder bump? not the neck! right?
Bushings size the neck. Unless you have a neck shoulder bushing which is not very common
What is your decapping process?
Concentricity and Runout are not interchangable terms. Throughout the video you seem to interchange the terms however you only ever measured runout.
Was brass neck turned ?
No
@@BoltActionReloading I still think using mandrel to push any brass imperfections to the outside is best. That is of course when a fired case lets bullet drop thru before resized. Cheers
It's all theory I want to see shots down range. If there is no difference then what's the point.
Hi Stephen, You are correct but its a different point. I do plan on putting some down range to test. Determining beyond a shadow of a doubt that runout causes your groups to open up is a different conversation than what busing produces the most consistently low runout. I tried to make the point that is all things were equal most would choose the least runout whether they saw the runout on paper or not. I agree completely that in the end what ends up down range is what matters, but then we have to talk about the error with the guy behind the trigger too.
BAR
Does he know the answer or do you?
?
Somebody who actually says Lapua correctly.
Hahaha I get so many people who tell me I am saying it wrong. I try my best but I am probably still a little off. Thanks though!
Are you reading?
Don't use the expander with the type s die!!!! I have .001 to .0005 run out with these dies on all my rifles !!!!
I am not using the expander. I never use them. If I were using anything it is a separate step with a expander mandrel.
Copy that. I have great luck with type S dies and I know that expander mandrels work. They work great with Redding Competition seating dies in my system. I don't care how you get there but for you and me both eliminating runout is the goal. The advantage I see with mandrels are they uniformly size the inside of the neck minimizing effects of neck wall thickness. Neck bushings forming from the outside will accentuate uneven tension with unturned necks.
Concentricity is only going to be as good as the case the bullet is sitting in. If you`ve got shiddy case`s, and shiddy bullets, the fanciest tools in the world wont fix it.
I can use standard dies and keep my concentricity at no more than .0005 runout. And that`s with using hornady`s shiddy bullets and basic USA made rifle case`s.
I don`t need over priced fancy tools to make my shots hit the bullseyes. Over 50+yrs of reloading have taught me many things... like not wasting money.
Hi Larry
My 45 years of reloading have taught me there is always something new to learn, to make our reloading process better, and make more accurate ammo. I would guess since you are also watching these videos, you are also looking for new ideas. I shoot 1000 yard and 1 mile benchrest competitions and need every ounce of accuracy my ammo can produce. Some of the new expensive tools help in that quest.
What is the runout of the Bullet once it is seated into the case? I don’t turn necks so I’m not too worried much about case neck runout but do worry about Bullet runout. I use Sinclair Bushing Dies and I very seldom get over .001 Bullet runout. I also use Starline Match (small primer) .308 Brass. Very consistent and about 5/9 the price of Lapua small primered .308 brass. Try some, you will like it.
Ur making things more complicated for people Trying to learn it than u should
The only way you're going to learn. If this is too complicated for you, find another channel. I find this very useful info.
Thank you for the video it's a great discussion. Perhaps your concentricity results with the bushing die may have something to do with your neck uniformity. I turn my brass down to 0.012 and then I use an LE Wilson bushing guy that is . 285. The worst I've ever seen is 002 and that is rare. I have been wanting to try the SAC bushings but they're always out of stock and quite honestly a bit pricey. Thanks for the video again!