The BEST Self-Defense Round?? Federal HST 9mm vs 40S&W vs 357sig.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2023
- The Federal HST did not disappoint at all. Although switching from Gold Dot probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, moving forward, I'll probably be buying these for self defense.
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.40 always performs well. Really if you have a handgun in 9MM, .40, .357 Sig or .45 and its accurate, it will do the job.
Agree 100%. It doesn't matter what caliber you carry if you cannot shoot the target
@@andrewmconradso by that logic we should all be carrying 22lr then right?
@adriansoto239 I've seen the damage a 22 can do. Is it the best option, no. Is it an option, yes.
@@andrewmconrad right, i have seen the damage it can do as well, which is vastly less than 9mm. The 9mm damage is less than a .40, a
40 damage is less than 357sig, a 357sig is less damage than a 10mm, a 10mm is less damage than a 44magum etc....... but you say pick any caliber so long as you get good shot placement, so damage is irrelevant according to your logic.
Again, i ask, should we all just carry a 22lr??
@@adriansoto239while that’s sort of technically correct, those are super general statements. It really depends on the ammo brand. There’s plenty of +p+ 9mm’s that have significantly more energy than anemic .40’s, and even matching some high end .357 sigs like HST. .357 sig HST has 495 foot pounds out of a 3.4” barrel and same bullet 568 foot pounds out of a 4.5” barrel. The .40 HST is 469 foot pounds out of a 4.9” barrel. Plenty of 9mm is above that 495 and 469 foot pounds.
And even though the 3.4” HST had a tad more energy than the 4.9” .40 in HST, the .40 from the 4.9” did wayyy more damage. The .40 and HST were about even from 3.4”, and then about even from 4.5” for .357 and 4.9” for .40. With a slight edge to the .357. 9mm +p HST is rated by Federal at 398, not sure of the barrel length. But Ive seen several 9mm loads on youtube tested at about 500-540 fpe on youtube from 5” barrels. So some 9mm loads can have more energy than a .357 sig HST from a 3.4” and get close to the 4.5” barrel
BUT despite the .357 sig being more energy than .40 in HST (similar performance though), .40 has more energy from Underwood. .40 135 gr has 675 foot pounds from the 4.9” barrel and .357 sig has 640 foot pounds from the 4.5” barrel.
So again, it varies from load to load.
imgur.com/a/kbrOSBH
Link
To get full power from 357 sig, you either get Underwood or hand load yourself.
Underwood makes a good round. I'm needing to place an order for something else. Maybe I'll get a box or two of the 357 sig
Or civil defense
I’m getting 1600 fps from a G35 with KKM barrel, Underwood 125 GD.
The hst usually does well.
Best overall recipe : 9mm bonded hp 124 grain +p at 1250 fps... .40sw are 155 grain at 1200 fps... and 357 sig 125 grain at 1400 fps..
This is the first time I have ever seen 357 Sig HST ammo out of a 4 inch barrel not get the advertised velocity of 1360 fps or more.
You have seen other instances where it has?
P229 doesn't have quite a 4 inch barrel..its like 3.86 or something..not that it matters but nor quite 4
I've seen it get 1400
There's differences in barrels the same length from the same manufacturer. I've seen 357 Sig P229 and P320 with same length barrels shoot the same loading with different results. The P320 compact was hitting 1370 whereas the P229 was struggling to hit 1330. Not sure it makes a big difference, though. This was with Gold Dot and Golden Saber Bonded.
You’re an idiot. Even at 1330 that is moving pretty quick compared to 9mm, 40, 45. Even +p+ 9mm is like 1250 from a full size pistol. Just stop. Get hit in the sternum with an hst 357 sig cartridge at even 1300 fps and let me know how that works out for you. Some of these dudes are clowns. 🤡
I just picked up my first 357sig a sig 229 LE trade in with the dak trigger a few weekends ago it's a nice spicy 9mm and the dak trigger isn't so bad.... I found sig 357sig at a lgs here in Michigan for 19.99 a box of 50.... I put a 229 40 with the dak trigger in layaway the other day also....
Damn, that's a fantastic deal on that 357sig. I like the DAK, the trigger isn't the best, but short stroking is nice.
@andrewmconrad I picked up 300rds of it this is a collection piece/ range gun I may go back in a few weeks and see if they still have some and pick up a bit more
Coast Guard used those and great high quality , I had seen those leo trade ins for 500 and what a score, I think you can convert those wonky triggers but maybe with practice just leave it.
Agreed, Federal HST is the best I've seen.👍 Both my Springfield XDMe Compact 10MM and the Hellcat are always loaded with them.
Love my G32 in 357 Sig. I load Winchester Ranger 125 gr in mine.
Can I get a breakdown of your formula?
@@andrewmconrad A Glock 32 , with 4” barrel. A very potent cartridge.
Always will argue...of course the experts will disagree...shot placement imperative...of course my g32 with .357 sig will destroy anything on 2..4 legs....the perfect rd..imho
@@josephwinlock1429I don't understand why it never caught on. It's probably the best defensive round there.
@@JimD410 Me neither. The perfect EDC man stopper
Thx for the vid. Disappointing that they watered down the 357Sig so much. Should be in the 1450-1500 ft/s range.
But looking at the expanded projectile that is as much speed as it can take.
Yeah, it was a little watered down now that you mention it, but at the same time, it was really right on par with the same speeds as the Speer Gold Dot
@@andrewmconrad yep, same fall from grace on the GDs. Still my backup choice after the handloads.
40s&w and 357Sig are my 2 Fav calibers ... I like 380acp also ..
I really like the HST however in 357Sig it seems to be loaded weak. It should be at 1350 fps or more and approaching 20” penetration. When it’s loaded weak to meet the FBI standard penetration you lose the purpose of the cartridge. Very unfortunate IMO.
Good video! I have tested the HST & Gold•Dot and the HST is a little better and more consistent! I even got the 200 grain HST in 10mm and it only traveled about 1 inch more than the .40 HST but was smashed more down in the pedals, meaning it hit harder. I have never seen a HST or a Gold•Dot come apart! Both are good but the HST is a little better! I subscribed to this channel! You did a great job!
nice work, thanks for the testing ..
Thanks for the review! I am carrying a G22 with the 180 HST EDC. There's a reason that LE agencies have selected this for so long.
I appreciate these multi caliber tests and if .45 shorter barrel added that would be great. If you could please always put on like 2 layers of Jean followed by two layers T-shirt go to goodwill or whatever if extremely matters especially since clear Gel is way less dense then real calibrated organic gel. Also....Calipers measure expanded diameter of each so actual Tissue Crush can be computed not just eyeball. A .05 difference is actually huge through entire wound path
I have an ex small Kahr P380, and a Shield40 with 40 & 357 Sig barrels. Thank you for your hard work.
Thank you for the Time and Information that comes with watching this Great Video ... 🤟💪
Thanks for watching
Thanks for the gel test and video. 👍
Thanks for watching!
Good evaluation of these three calibers. Impressive performances for all three. Thanks.
I'm more and more blown away by the 40. Such a consistent round
@@andrewmconrad I agree that it doesn't get the respect that it deserves. But 9mm is so vastly more popular that it will always be the more popular round, more available, always more economical round, and slightly easier to shoot.
Carry 40 s&w, will continue to do so. Own 9mm as well, prefer 40, trust 40. Fads come & go but ballistics are always favorable for 40.
I love the 229 and being able to shoot everything. Good video 👍👍
Having the ability to shoot 3 calibers from one firearm is definitely a plus
Love the videos!
Thanks for watching!
I love the fact that we can buy all of these rounds from different companies, to compare! Very nice! 😂🎉
Always read your box kids! Cant go wrong
Well done!
Thank you!
Looking forward to the denim tests.
Nice job. It just confirms my choice of ammo regardless of caliber. The Federal HST is very consistent. In my experience, which is purely anecdotal, it also functions more reliably in semi-autos than some other brands. This is especially true with some 1911 platforms. I am assuming it is because of the consistent quality of OAL, ogive, etc. Thanks for the review.
In 40 I trust!! Great Video
I would trust 40 with my life. In fact, I might find a sig that's solely chambered in 40 for that reason
Well done. Many thanks. Great comparison. HST doesn't disappoint. We use 124 HST standard & (+p) in our 9s in our family. 40 looked like it performed excellent. It looked as though it went a couple inches into 2nd block but rebounded. Do you have any experience or thoughts with 165grain HST or Gold Dot in 40?
I carry Critical defense in my 40s or 165 Gold Dota. Can't complain about 180s for sure. Thank you again for great demonstration.
I did test/video with the Speed Gold Dot 40S&W 165gr a few months ago. Very similar results to these 180gr HST's, but 165gr HST was traveling a little faster.
The 357 Sig acquires a higher cartridge pressure, flatter trajectory and imparts notably better cavitational damage than the 40 or the 9mm every time.
My question is .... In 2023, why limit yourself to rounds that rely on expansion, when you can get significantly higher velocities, equivalent and/or greater cavitational damage with non-expanding/barrier-blind rounds from Lehigh/Underwood?
You mean like underwood's extreme defenders? I just bought a p229 elite and I'm going to buy soon a slide, barrel and mags for 357 sig. I'm already familiar with underwood ammo's extreme defender/penetrator series and mostly use those for my other guns when carrying (for humans in town or bears in the woods in northern Idaho)
Compare energy of 135 40 vs best 357 of Underwood. 357 is kind of silly actually.
@@jaycee30865
Let me know when you find a 40 cal / 135gr that can hit an average of 2,200-2,280 fps at around 720-740 ft-lbs of M.E. out of a 4 25" barrel. **silence**
1438fps is the fastest 135 will go out of a 357sig according to hodgdon. Don’t know where you got your fiction.
@@jaycee30865
QUOTE; "Compare energy of 135gr 40 vs best 357 of Underwood 357." .... So what part of 720-740 ft-lbs did you [not] understand? You said "best of Underwood" right? Well the Underwood Xtreme Defender I was referring to is [not] a 135gr.
Have you considered any Fort Scott Munitions ammunition? Their claim to fame is a solid copper projectile that is supposed to tumble upon impact.
Fps i key however projectile density is a major factor. Currently working on a projectile density tester need more components.
Very interesting. I'd like to know more
In terms of terminal ballistics, sectional density is unequivocally not a "major factor" outside of direct tissue-crushing dynamics. The cavitational damage imparted by certain significantly lighter rounds with notably less sectional density traveling in excess of 2,000 fps, can far surpass the cavitational damage imparted by subsonic heavier/larger rounds.
After seeing the results of tests like this, I need to buy a variety of different bullets from these companies just to see what they will do loaded on some wildcat rounds. Hehe.
I bet you can get that 357sig projectile up into the 1500fps range with some experimentation.
@@andrewmconrad lighter bullet will do it. I think the 90gr get very close. On the same note, liberty ultra lights run at about 2300 fps.
.357 Sig is my favorite! However in a 229 you sacrifice capacity over power in comparison to 9mm.
I agree. But if I haven't taken the target out by the 12th shot, then it wouldn't matter the caliber 🤣
Also with 9mm just know you will have to put more rounds into a criminal to put them down 8 -9 times out of 10 unlike 40cal and 357 sig. Need that so you actually NEED that capacity for the 9mm more rounds doesn't actually mean it's better, I rather use less rounds and be able to stop the threat as fast as possible 🙏
They all work fine. Especially with HST or GD.
Thing is, and apparently it's not widely understood, 40/357 do better with 155 to 165 for 40, and 147 for 357Sig.
The 40 needs a touch more speed. Use HST or Gold Dot and you'll see it's true.
357 in Hornady XTP 147 is a beast. It's just fast enough to make it expand, and heavy enough to penetrate deep.
I have the same P229 setup and the same in a Glock 31.
.44 AMP, .45 Winchester Mag, .30 carbine, 10MM auto. .41 Rem Mag, .44 Mag if a revolver. Those are MEN'S self defense rounds!
Are you shooting at the Immokalee gun range that has changed owners like 5 times?
Yeah, that's the one 🤪
Could that have been a bay out at JTac Ranch?
Negative, further south in Immokalee
On this video, that Sig makes all three rounds seems soft shooting.. I carry 40 in the winter Glock 27, GEN 5 9 in the summer M&P Shield 2.0
I appreciate the test, but a new gel block should have been used. There are so many wound channels in that thing you can't discern what's what. It's a mess!
What was the original caliber of the P229? You are probably seeing a little below advertised velocity with the 3.9” 229 barrel.
I purchased it in 40s&w
@@andrewmconradAny issues with shooting 357 Sig or 9?
@@andrewmconradThanks for taking the time and spending the $$ for this testing. I just wish 357 Sig wasn’t such a wallet killer 😂. I picked up an HK P30 in .40 and bought a 357 Sig barrel for it.
No issues shooting or swapping barrels. I use a different recoil spring and magazine for the 9mm. I bought the coversion barrel from barsto. Same spring and magazine for the 40 and 357sig.
Only ossues I've ran into is that some 357sig ammo is just way off in this firearm compared to others. The ranger t series and the remington are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. Others were fairly accurate
@@andrewmconrad Thank you sir for the information.
Damage??????
I wouldnt even bother with .380 the only ammo even decent with .380 is pretty much underwood extreme defender. The difference at least as far as ballistic gel performance between .380 and 9mm is bigger than literally 9mm and any other bigger caliber. Like 9mm is insanely better st ballistic gel fbi testing than .380 compared to what any other round could do to 9mm is what I mean. Like the difference between .380 and 9mm would be bigger than even .500 magnum and 9mm if that makes sense? When it comes to testing expansion, proper penetration, wound channels, etc. and strictly comparing hollow point performance. 9mm hst is great stuff
👍😎🙏💪😷😊
Thanks!
The difference between .380 and 9mm is way bigger than 9mm and .40/.357 sig/.357 magnum. 9mm penetrates, expands, wound channels are comparable. Energy is good but not so high it will kill a person behind your target with good ammo like HST. Any benefits over 9mm from the other rounds is marginal, where .380 hollow points just don’t perform.
I only use extreme defender +p if I must carry a tiny .380. I use 124 +p hst in 9mm
The HST in .45ACP kicks all their butts. The HSTs in general are on their own level. Awesome rounds.
40 cal 🚮
Only buy 357 sig, 10mm, 357 magnum from underwood, double tap and or buffalo bore. These people are the only ones leading these cartridges to true specs. Most every standard manufacturer loads these cartridges under where there suppose to be at. I don’t pay for 10mm when it’s loaded like 40. 🤦♂️ I don’t support that.
I carry Underwood 124gr 357 sig. and the only other caliber I would carry is the .40 with 135gr Underwood both Nosler projectiles. These rounds smoke any of those watered down factory loads. There is nothing like a 357 sig for one shot stopping power and what's a couple bucks more when your life depends on it. Not to mention the near 100% reliability of a bottleneck round.
I like to say the 357 Sig is one and done.
I just picked up an le trade in sig 229 early 90s so its not tacticool, but ive always loved 40 so it was a no brainer. Really thinking about getting a 357 barrel for it. Possibly a 9mm set up just for fun. You pay more for sigs but with the 40 cal platform you get a good amount of bang for your buck in my opinion. Thanks for the video. It was pretty great