0:00 - "It's raining, it's windy. I'm wet and miserable." - That is the kind of intro I have been waiting to see somewhere, once. Not kidding. Brilliant and honest !!
August 2023 I recently bought a two year old Zoe GT LINE. Your road test conclusions were spot on! The built in 22kw charger and having a CCS 50KW Plug is very handy! The price was under £15k with only 9K miles and 3 years of warranty left! Finance 2.4% APR. BARGAIN!
We just brought ze50 gtline ccs , and got good deal off .done 1800 miles in under 5 weeks and cost less than 1p a mile on electricity so can’t knock it’s Efficiency had 190 miles in bad weather at 60-65 mph on motorway with 26 left and had upto 260 range in mixed town and a roads keeping to speed limits with upto 5.8 miles per kWh , had 210-260 ranges so better than wltp , which is good . Enjoying every moment first ev tried a few others and like you say for miles per £ it’s great . Family of 4 and everyone happy in Zoe . Going on long trips in summer holidays so it will be test of boot , but had £127 of shopping over week and with floor in the back fitted it all in so that’s good for small car. Saving 150-200 £ in first month in fuel. So all in all were happy with our first ev !
Compared with ZE40 the 50 is lightyears better according to me.. better interior, better light, better soundproofing, display percentage charge on display and so on... im sooo happy with y ZE50....
All EVs should come with Rapid DC charging and a Heat pump, Renault can get away with 22kW AC only in France where the chargers are everywhere, all RHD Zoe should include CCS, there will be many disappointed buyers who did not know they need to add this option and most dealers will not know they need to insist on adding it!
Charger are not everywhere in France. I’m going there this summer, like every year, and I have to take a 150km detour because my usual route doesn’t have enough chargers (I just transitioned to ev)!
My dealer informed me about CCS but left it up to me, he said many customers got along fine with just 22 kW (Switzerland). I still took the option because I believe the Zoe gives the best of both worlds. Keep in mind this is the only car with 22 kW included by default, even Tesla charges for this upgrade, and the 22 kW upgrade for Tesla is a lot more expensive than the CCS one for the Zoe. Heat pump is default as well, VW and BMW charge for this.
u can charge upto 43kwh fast charge on electric highway chargers on all motorway services on just the standard type 2 plugs I have done it on my 22kwh Zoe no problem takes about 40 mins to do it to 100 % .
@@stevecapper9321 up to 43kW on the Q motor. The new Zoe 50 ONLY comes with the R motor. So if you don't spec CCS you can ONLY charge at up to 22kW maximum. If its a only car, you don't have a home charger perhaps and you don't do long trips then it'll be absolutely fine. If you want to do long trips however you'll want the CCS option (even if its proven to top out at 44kW in multiple tests) as a 2+ hours stop to charge might be a bit jarring on a long trip.
@@SandyRitchie Yes a lot of people get caught out with the Old Zoe. The Faste 43AC was pretty rare in the original Zoe. I had the Zoeze40 with R Motor so could only do 22kW AC but travellin in Ireland the distances arent that great so one charge on a longer trip over lunch was fine. If i was buying a Zoe now though id have to have CCS for convenience and Resale value.
It has CCS so yeahl. It's just a shame the Lane keep assist is crap - the app is crap and after 6 months it needs a shit loads of updates at the dealer!
One thing reviewers do not consider in England is the rust proofing new cars are given. I live in Sweden and always keep my cars for years so its important when buying new or used. Here the major car magazine always tests new cars and the Renault Zoe gets maximum points. Otherwise most of the Evs have relatively poor rust proofing. So the Zoe is a good buy if you intend to keep the car and even replace the battery in the future.
That's good to know - having just bought a 2020 Zoe R135. I'm planning to keep it for 10 years or so and wondered about rust proofing after seeing a video of a 2018 leaf underside that was so corroded the battery was in danger of dropping out!
We had pretty much decided to buy the Zoe from looking on the Internet due to the price and range until we went and actually sat in it. My hubby who is close on 6 foot tall thought the driving position was OK. I'm 5' 5" and when I sat in it the 1st thing I said to the salesman was how do I raise the seat. He told me I couldn't and I said I'd need a booster seat to see over the the steering wheel (I have a bad back so I don't exactly sit up straight). Then when we got in the back I realised there was no way my 14 year old would be able to fit in as I couldn't fit my feet under the seat and her feet were as big as mine. I don't think they should he selling a car without rapid charging tbh either. We kept our leaf for a bit longer and got a hyundai ioniq on lease thanks to a deal you shared on twitter so thanks for that. We love the ioniq for comfort, space, range and things they include as standard.
@@GavinScrimgeour I was getting 3.2 miles per kWh from a car that had done 4,500 miles. The bonnet had frost on it as there's no ICE to warm it up. My BIG mistake was putting the seat cooler on when I started the journey. After a while I realised and put the seat heater on.
I have updated from the ZE40 after 3 years and now have the ZE50. The main reason is the extra range and slightly faster charging. I generally drive no more than 150 miles and then need a rest. The highway code says you should rest after 2 hours which is about 120 miles. In my old ZE40 the car would have little extra range in case of a detour or a charger not working but the new one has about another 50 miles which means this problem is solved! Only need better infrastructure now. Should have at least 12 chargers at each service station not 1 or 2! By the way, the new Zoe still has a button to press to remove the vacuum cleaner noise (when at low sleed) and make it silent. I was delighted when discovered it!
On range difference with the e-208 - that additional 30-40 miles covers the distance between service stations, so gives you the extra backup for when the Ecotricity CCS chargers at your chosen recharge motorway station are broken or occupied.
Hey EVM, Love your reviews. I drive this car and have not been triggered at all by any of the comments. You just give really great trusted reviews and recommend your videos to people. Keep up the great work!
Great review, having just bought the new Zoe Riviera I was told that all new Zoe’s are supplied with CCS 50KW rapid charging as standard now. The dealer Richard Sanders Kettering explained that only 10% of Zoe’s in recent times didn’t have the CCS option so from about June 21 it became a standard fitment. Strangely it lost the light over the drivers vanity mirror and inductive smartphone charging though
They are definitely limited to 87mph. My 88 bhp Zoe has the same top speed too, as does the 110. I'm sure mine could beat 100mph if it was let loose. It's not a problem though, it's a long time since I felt the need to max out every vehicle I have and 87 is more than I'll ever need.
Your videos are always entertaining as well as informative. I've clicked the bell icon as I look forward to seeing your videos in my notifications. You deserve more subscribers!
Thought I would give 3 things I like about this car and 3 things I dislike. Like. Range Style Soft dash materials Dislike Paying extra for CCS That small screen Fixed seats Mike
Purchased ZE40 NEW whilst waiting for ZE50 ccs to be made.The ZE50 is leagues ahead.I average about 4 miles to a kw so 200 miles range with varied driving.The CCS charges at 43kw to 60% and about 30kw from 60-90% it then drops to about 20kw from 90-100%. You can add about 100 miles in 30 mins. The CCS is ESSENTIAL even if it costs £1000 because ALL Zoes are a pain to charge on AC, especially if the battery is cold.(Typically the ZE40 would only charge at 14kw on a AC rapidcharger & 21kw ( warm). The ZE50 with CCS is perfect for the current UK charging network.I would not even consider the new mini , honda , golf , i3 , leaf as their owners have told me they are only good for around 100 miles! I get 180 miles at a constant 70mph on the motorway in the ZE50.(3.6miles/kw). Driven gently 5 miles/kw is possible achieving 245 miles.I have completed 1500 miles in the ZE50 and cannot fault it. Drives much better than the last Zoe and the dash is a big improvemnt with the ipad style touch screen with apple car play allows you to mirror apps like Spotify & Google maps onto the screen.Reversing camera image goes full screen on display! Front parking sensors are very handy when approaching a charge point as Zoe charges from the front and allows you to get close. Dealers will discount if you ask £32k List /paid £26k after grant.Oh, and the car came with a fully fitted 7kw homecharger with 5metre cable attached fitted by BP chargemaster and costs just £1 per hour to charge at home and adds 30 miles per hour.These chargers can cost £1000 if fitted seperately but all new zoes come with this free of charge if you own your own driveway.
CCS charging - requires few electronics as you are just directly charging the DC batteries with a DC charger that just pushes as hard as the car says it can take - does not cost £1000. There are protection circuits, but they are simple/cheap. That is different from AC charging which require high power inverters, cooling and electronics - that is what I would expect be £100's of pounds for. So yes, this is standard stuff from the car manufactures.
At a minimum, a DC charging inlet requires another contactor relay and extra high-voltage wiring. It's not trivial, and depending on where the battery terminals have to go, it may involve a fair length of high voltage/high current cabling. But I agree it's not something that should cost a thousand pounds either.
Seemed a lot of reflection even in rainy Yorkshire, smaller windows for reduced solar gain, but no car has solved the big black heat absorbing dash where the majority of heat gain occurs, less of a problem in UK granted.
The new Zoe is a nice refresh with the upgraded interior and bigger battery. Shame the CCS is an option and at a time when new 150kw chargers are being installed, why does it max out at 45kw DC. For similar money I'd probably get the Corsa E, for the extra tech and charging...or wait for the next Zoe I also don't understand why popular features available with the previous model have been taken away such as the button to open the charge flap, or the central armrest and storage.
Great review Andy, you're bang on regarding ccs charging particularly when we look at what's happening with ev's over the next couple of years and beyond.
I'm soon to swap from a 22kwh 2014 rapid charge Zoe into the new GTline, that's for me the best upgrade option. If I'd had a 40kwh Zoe I'd probably be happy for another couple of years, but triple range and newer gadgets is a winner.
Thanks, I don't know why I am watching this, as I have just taken delivery of my Kia. What it does tell me is I made the right choice. The screen is horrible, and no fast charging, are killers, the seats and headroom are also a secondary concern. As a town supermini it is probably fine. Thanks for a good review, as always.
Totally agree about CCS. Just seems nuts not to have it on every model as standard. Although you didn't mention that it can take 22kwh from a type 2 which I wish more cars had.
Also need to factor in that it isnt watercooled battery pack, much like the leaf. So batterylife might be an issue over when the car has a few years on it. Maybe the MG ZS ev first gen is a safer car, with ccs standard and watercooled battery.
Totally with you on sat nav screen , it looks like an afterthought, oh we need a screen stick it on top , as for no rapid totally wrong, should be standard
@Richard Wood Atleast the screen in Tesla cars are not blocking the air vents like the Renault does. Plus you really can't integrate a screen of that size within the dashboard.
You probably have realised by now that the Zoe only charges at 45kW on CCS, while the e-208 can charge up to 100kW, so the smaller range is more than compensated by the better charging speed
I've just seen that they've carried on with one of my biggest complaints about our Clio. The internal front door handles are right at the front end of the doors. If it's a bit windy then you've got all that leverage of the door's length working against you. Even 6 inches further back would make a big difference. The handle design also means that as you operate the mechanism the handle isn't a strong thing to hold on to. There's that other handle further back alongside the electric window controls but that's not where your hand naturally falls.
Good review, I’ve ordered one, my first EV and looking forward to it! A big winner on range for me, and price is always negotiable 😉 especially at the moment!
@TF no regrets at all, it’s a brilliant car. If you are travelling a long way in one day just plan your charge point and have spare points in case the first one isn’t working!
Just for info, that front area with the key symbol is NOT to charge the key fob but is where you place the fob if the battery is flat in the fob. It's a standard 2032 button cell. Agree CCS should be standard. Pre conditioning and charge flap opening were standard on the old Zoe, but I think Renault have gone for a "standard key fob" across their range. I think the only version that has a "false floor" are those that have the Bose sound system. Oh! no mention of the totally crap My Renault app and the the fact that you cannot pre condition the car with either the app nor the in-car system. Helpfully the car and the app say its "working", NOT. This will be available "real soon now" via OTA and an app upgrade. For transparency I do own a ZE50. The lack of seat height is not a problem for me.
Lack of CCS as standard will make second hand searches of these a bloody nightmare (similar to the battery lease versions of the ZE40). Also am I right in assuming that without the CCS, you are stuck with 7.2kW charging or do those cars get 22kW three phase Type 2 charging?
I have said on a few other videos and reviews of the Zoe that it's rapid charging is too slow at only 50kW max, the e-208 can charge at 100kW so even though the Peugeot cannot travel as far on a charge, in the race to 80% battery you'll be on your way quicker in the Peugeot than the Renault.
If you can find a 100kw charger, how many public chargers are 100kw? And the 100kw is a best possible situation max limit, not very often in the real world will the pug and corsa get over 80kw charging speeds.
Richard Wood from what I have seen in a test the 208 and Zoe both starting at around 10% battery after about 25 minutes the 208 is at 67% and the Zoe 42% and after 36 minutes the 208 is at 80% and the Zoe at 58%. Yes there’s not many 100kW chargers yet but they are getting there and new faster chargers being put in all the time. I think most new £30k+ EVs will have faster than 50kW charging and the Zoe with an optional CCS 50kW charging is going to get left behind if they’re not careful. Let’s not forget this is Peugeot, Vauxhall & DS first real EV and it’s based on a ICE car. Renault like Nissan have been doing this for a long time. Nissan may have faster charging with their 62kW version but it will still rapidgate. I feel Renault need to step it up
Should we point out that for all intents and purposes humans are right handed, and if you drive on the left you have to operate the screen with your less coordinated digits, no quick fix for that, unless the Brits conform to driving like America and Europe and Asia etc etc
Hi EVM, this week I've test-driven both the Zoê 50 and the e-208 and I'm convinced that the Peugeot was slow, by comparison to the Zoê. However not including CCS in the Zoê is criminal. Here in France the Zoê can be bought with or without the battery - you can rent the battery.
The Chevy Bolt in the US has CCS as an option ( still seems to be true for the upcoming 2022 model year ). I bought a used Bolt and was careful to make sure it had CCS. I haven't used the CCS yet but it's there for a potential 180 mile trip from West Palm Beach to Orlando. I can't see me ever leaving the state of Florida in the Bolt. You never really fully deplete and fully recharge so I would tend to put one stop range at something like 170% of total range, so maybe 340 miles for the Zoe, especially as you are traveling at highway speeds and getting less efficiency. What seems really weird with the Zoe is giving you 22kW AC charging that you will never be able to use and not giving CCS. Replace the 22kW rectifier with a more modest 10kW unit and then put the savings into the CCS. This will hurt them IMO.
Fine test of the Zoe. But just keep in mind that hot as in hot hatch belongs on a track. On the road you need comfort and stability. Hot hatches with stiff springs and even stiffer anti roll bars are fun 5% of the time and a nuisance 95% of the time.
I just got rid of my Zoe ze40. Lack of maintenance to locals chargers and the ones that did work I couldn’t use due to the Zoe’s fussy charging parameters. Ended up having to regularly sit at a rapid charger for an 1hour+ (not even reaching 100%) just to be able to run the car. If I was to get another ev in the future proper rapid charging will be a must especially with some charging networks (ie instavolt) only supporting ccs and chademo. Would I choose a Zoe with ccs I’d still say no due to Renaults fussy charging string my experience if another car can charge on it the Zoe should be able to too.
Considered the ZE50, but MG ZS is more car for less money if you want CCS. Yes the range is lower, and there's no 22kw Type 2, but finding one of those is harder than finding 50kw CCS.
The MG ZS is made in China (and India I believe), the Zoe in France, your pick for where you want your money to go but I highly suspect some of the price difference comes from this
@@antwnpowell For clarity I am speaking about the UK perspective. I am not likely to be driving around the continent but the missus does have family in Scotland, where there are CCS aplenty. Even on the continent it looks likely that CCS is the de facto standard for rapid charging and like EVM points out, it would surely not cost Renault £1k to add it to the Zoe as a standard option.
@@EngineeringNibbles Judging from the anti-chinese sentiment on most Indian MG ZS videos on youTube I suspect it is only made in China. You may be right that I am unfortunately benefiting from lower and non-unionised labour costs in China though I would expect a sizable amount of the difference comes from the smaller battery pack. edit: There is local assembly in Thailand and India.
On the face of it, £1k extra for the CCS option is a bit ripe, but look at leasing costs and you'll see that the CCS equipped car is actually less money per month to lease compared to the base car, presumably because of better residual values. Only a small proportion of new car sales in the UK are to people paying outright, so you should really be talking about leasing/PCP etc costs as well as list prices.
Great video. I’m pleased I located your content. The information will benefit many including myself. My first Motability car will be in 4 - 7 months. ❤
To be honest I'm very happy to have saved 1000€ and the complexity of the ccs. Had the car for a year never needed to charge in such a rush that a 22kw charger wouldn't be enough.
Had my Zoe for just over a month. Great little car. My previous cars have been 'buses' - Sharan, Grand Voyager, Evoque and so quite a stepdown size-wise. Storage solved with false floor in the boot and armrest (though you lose a cupholder) to hide away small items. Other car in household is TM3 - can't compare, but I prefer the dials to virtually everything on touchscreen (which I have to re-learn each time I take the Tesla out). Despite this being a 'second' car, range was important as I don't want to have to borrow the Tesla for when I'll eventually be able to go on long trips. Getting good range for winter (160 miles). Seems economical. (NB - NHS so I am driving every day). btw - used Carwow for big discount so didn't notice the cost of the extras (CCS and accessories) quite so much.
I purchased a Renault Zoe in May 2019 and I was so disappointed. I am wondering whether other owners had similar experiences. In a tropical climate A/C is as essential as heating in a cold one. Well it did not work from day1. After several attempts to solve the problem, the agent obtained a free replacement of the condenser from the manufacturer. To this day it still does not work. Right from the start the tyre pressure sensor also kept issuing a warning to « Check tyre pressure » which invariably ended up being correct. The agent always managed to reset it so that it did not show up any more. Sometimes the whole system blocked saying STOP ! The car had to be towed away. Recently I was told that the sensors had to be replaced and when i had paid for it, the warning still cropped up. The agent is finally submitting a request to Renault to change the whole tyre pressure monitoring system. Moreover, the domestic charger that comes with the car was working on and off and stopped charging after 4 years. The Agent was not able to replace it so i do not avail of a portable charger any more. The screen is dark and reflets so much that the camera iis useless for reversing. I resort to mirrors and stick my head out of the window to reverse or park as in the good old days. I have read about this defect in the media. Of the 10 cars i have owned this is by far the worst buy. I may have been unlucky and fallen on a particularly faulty Zoe. or are there many others like me ? I am all the more disappointed by my first electric car that for many years it has been a dream for me to own one.
The false floor in the boot is an accessory. Every reviewer says you can't open the lid with the fob, and I haven't read anything on the manual. Are you sure you're talking about the ZE50?
Meh... in this "city car" category, I'll take a Seat Mii and save some money and enjoy the greater simplicity... of course only if either of them were available in the US (which neither is). You guys have many more and better options there in the UK. I'm jealous.
I can see the motivation for keeping the glass surface small, but for those who have children who suffer from motion sickness and need to see the horizon to avoid being sick it’s not such a great thing... And I agree, CCS should be standard.
I love auxiliary inputs. If I decide to use my custom SSD hardware with an AM/FM/8 track/Cassette/CD/MP3/early smart phone player then I can. Future proofing is always good.
The major issue with the Leaf in hot climates is early battery deterioration, as the batteries become too hot if air cooled. Liquid cooled battery systems have proven very effective in preventing early battery deterioration in hot climates. So how does the Zoe cool its batteries?
@@ElectricVehicleMan so if you spend the $1000 does that include enhanced battery cooling or anything to help the battery under full charging conditions. Tesla go so far as to offer battery pre cooling.
Good review. My 2007 Mégane has a huge glove box and covered storage between the front seats, drivers seat height adjustment and it's comfy reliable and very cheap to run. As you say Zoe has poor storage. Big negative for me. No seat height adjustment? Wow what an omission! Bad. Prefer manual handbrake (fun, trust, feel, serviceability), and spare wheel. As I do carry sheet material, can you get 2.5 metre boards inside (passenger footwell to rear hatch)? In too many ways EV credentials apart, it's a significant downgrade on my 13 year old basic car. Looks like a case of Renault having different opinion to me on what the essentials are.
In some Ford models RHD versions had somewhat inconvenient cabin filter placement. You needed to disconnect your fusebox in order to change one. On the other hand, you needed to remove accelerator pedal on the LHD version.
Swings and roundabouts of the charging. Most cars don't come with 22kw AC charging. Places like Ireland and France have 22kw charges everywhere, in the UK not so much.
The central unit has always been a non-issue for me in this car when looking at their pictures. Seeing your viewpoint and comments - I would have to agree, looks really out of place and tacked on as an afterthought, but I know it features in some of their other cars too. It's just odd. Which is a shame.
Great review. The Zoe is a great small car, but it is overpriced. When the VW ID.3 comes out, they will have to offer big discounts on the Zoe. CCS should be standard.
Id3 is way overpriced to at least the launch version where you need to pay 4000 pounds for a higher trim to get essential stuff like backup camera, at least here in Norway.
I think you nailed it. CCS should be standard. A lot of new EV buyers won’t even know to option it. I don’t kno if the price is too high because I know the CCS association gets a cut of every module sold. This is like the Porsche Taycan having a heat pump as an option in Europe and not standard.
The pedestrian warning noise; there is a button to turn it off until you next stop, if you hold that button down, it changes the noise (this is the same as the ZE40). The binnacle/dashboard display; there are 3 layouts to choose from through the infotainment system, you can also customise the indicator noise and volume, you can apparently also change the background image for a custom one, but I've no idea what the requirements for this are; there is only one choice built in, but I guess off is also a choice. On the ZE40 there is a physical button on the right of the display, which cycles through 3 layouts (each with or without the background colour for 6 choices); the there are also different indicator noises, but these are fixed to 3 display layouts. There was a bug in the app where it was showing the range incorrectly, but they seem to have fixed that recently (it is converting km to miles then displaying that as miles, it was spot on if you multiplied the number in the app by 1.6, the guess-o-meter showed the correct range in the car). I have never received any notifications about charging, even though it is setup in the app (I do get Texts for the ZE40, even after the transition to the new app).
Also the marked key spot doesn't charge the key (it has a non-rechargeable CR2032 inside), it is the most sensitive spot for the car to detect it; it will tell you to place the key there if it can't detect it wherever it is.
I can't get a ZOE where I live but I think being able to opt out of fast charging is fine if you want a commuter or use for daily life around your town/city. You know how far your commute is so you won't have to stop and charge on the highway plus home power rates are much cheaper than public chargers generally.
Have a GT rapid charge ordered and due next week. Will be a second car and second EV to go with our Model 3 SR+ range and boot size persuaded us, looked at mini but with two kids the only 3 door option put us off. Good honest review and agree re CCS (we 'only' paid £750 as ordered in feb) don't think we will use but handy to have in case or for re sale.
£28000 in Australia. My wife's 2019 Kia Serato cost £13400 and it's a bigger car and can get 50 miles per gallon. I want an EV but not at current prices. I get the life of vehicle costs are cheaper for an EV, but Australian unleaded is half the price of UK, which is a big factor over the long term. I do want an EV eventually.
Yep, fair point. Need to wait for something decent in the 2nd hand market myself. Or significant advances in the conversion market. I'd be well up for converting my car.
Removal of the Side Head Air bag protection, the key card activated pre heat / cooling and the opening of the charge flap were retrograde steps AND not including CCS as standard were all big mistakes on Renaults part. Interior & exterior restyling & use of more durable Megane 5 stud wheel hubs & suspension were improvements
CCS was an option on early i3 models and lack of it was a big negative for resale. I went for a version with CCS but have found that I have not used it in three years as it makes no sense on a car with a range extender / small battery. Totally depends on your personal use case. Agree it should be an at cost option though.
It has some stupid flaws that any potential buyer should know about. And the biggest stupidity is that it could be fixed with firmware, but Renault just does not care. If you live in a warm climate (never below 7 degrees C) these complaints/issues do not apply to you. When it is cold, you can not control the traction battery heating. So if being on a journey when it is below -5C your maximum charging speed is 7kW even at 20% SoC. To get full charging speed the traction battery needs to be above +7C. The heating of the cabin can not be controlled during charging. A workaround exists, heating can be turned on thru the app. But the temperature will still be drop to about 10C if it is below -10C outside. The heating/cooling thru the app is limited to 10min, no matter what, but it can be repeated every 10min manually... So it is not sufficient in low temperatures as it will not heat up the cabin or the traction battery enough when it is below +5C in 10min. The supplied single-phase 230V cable is strict 10A only and has no adjustments neither in the charging cable nor in the car settings, it is always maximum charge speed and always to 100% SoC.
Ik it's no comparison, but my 2007 Seat Altea xl doesn't have blanked out buttons. It's a base model but the limited rebel plus version. Still, this looks nice though. I really like the refresh of the inside
I agree that CCS Charging should be Standard !!! Also, If they are going to charge extra for CCS, the price should be a quarter of what they are charging !!!
In most respects this is an excellent car but the lack of driver seat height adjustment and standard rapid charging seem bonkers. However I like the fact they've made a super mini with super mini performance rather than getting obsessed with 0-60 acceleration like so many other EVs and the range is excellent. The main issue is it is starting to look ordinary and expensive next to newer models. And I think the second car point is an excellent one that many reviewers ignore. If this was my only car the range would be a massive attribute, if it was a second car I would much rather buy a Mini EV or Mazda MX30.
No CCS, blanked switches, yours for 30 grand. They're having a laugh 😂 Wireless charging for phones another car sales myth, what they mean is wireless charging for Apple and Samsung phones.
@@smithy4121 yeah I said Apple and Samsung were sorted. I can vouch that Xiaomi, OnePlus don't work in our Kia Niro plug-in & the Xiaomi didn't work in the new e-niro or Soul-ev during a short test recently. And before anyone says yes the phones are capable.
Think the point here is £30K is not peanuts its a significant purchase for most 'normal' cars. So I am of the opinion it should feel premium and it should not cost a lot to add some soft plastic and design the interior like you care. Nahh even though I initially thought I may like this its just not good value. I'd rather pay a little more for a little more quality. But come the revolution when all new cars are EV's say in 5 years time there will be some cracking vehicles on the market and I can't wait until all the manufacturers start trying to out do each other. I expect an EV in 2025 to have 300+ range as standard with rapid+ charging, and a quality finish that is better than cars in 2020. I also would expect them to be in the price range £15K and upwards or less for a real small basic car as after all a car in 2025 will be a skateboard with an electric motor and a battery not that difficult to manufacture :-) If I could have a wish for 2021 I would love to see an EV the size of the original 2 door SMART with 200 miles range for about £15K as a 2nd car but maybe I am dreaming but once battery costs become commodity it should be possible. I live in hope.
@@michaeldawson6309 the smart car was the car that saved Tesla, that was Elons' first big collaboration,and it could be again, slightly higher, so all the battery pack fits under, and by then we'll have pronged slide in charging where the tow bar used to be, rather than gasoline type plug in fuel ports, with cables and hoses. The car will self port, like summon, no need to get out in rain or snow, same as automatic trailer hitch.
! DEMAND PRICE PARITY WITH EQUIVALENT ICE VEHICLES ! No, I don’t know who to make the demand of either, but...my wife bought a Renault Clio 0.9 tce, and it was middle-spec and slightly lower profile tyres etc, and cost let’s say £13,000 including a service plan thing that preserves your warranty for 3 years. We looked at a Zoe at the time, but they weren’t a patch on the 2020 EV (2015 range about 100 miles?). So,we could buy one Clio for us and one spare for our daughter that just passed her test, with enough money left over to buy all the petrol for one of them, for a year, for the £26k to £29k cost of this Zoe you are moderately enthusiastic about. I love the Zoe, but your obs regards CCS is pointing out the tip of the relative pricing iceberg. I think the Road Tax is ten quid per annum - I pay £150 for the 20-year-old Clio we have. That’s £150 more road tax than a £50 k Tesla performance car that weighs three times as much. But, we all know taxation is nuts. Observe at a meta-level what’s happening - less affluent people are being made to buy petrol cars and pay 20 x the per mile tax in the UK that EV owners can buy into. Poor people are buying the older ICE cars that were not designed to work around or fit with the Road Tax system, which of course, is outmoded by EV advances, and nobody in the EV world wants to talk about Taxation on their cutting-edge daily drivers . I wouldn’t either, because any money you save may well be gobbled up by insurance premiums or tyre costs. If say model 3 owners were also subjected to a new taxation regime that say made them pay what tax I pay on a tiny Clio from the year 2000, they’d pay another £500 to £750 a year give or take. The average Tesla insurance cost in the USA apparently is four grand $US ! This unresolved tax matter that likely has a burgeoning dossier in the Treasury expanding daily, is a matter creating doubt that may make people lean towards leasing (I see your other vid on that subject). I doubt cheap small EVs will be hit - but does a car costing nearly THIRTY grand retail, deserve to have a discount of thousands handed to the buyer, when it’s almost not a choice now. EVs have become capable and are tipping into mainstream - by 2023 I think test-driving EVs as part of a buying project for normal people, will be an everyday occurrence, only held back by the insane retail pricing policy of making polluting vehicles really really cheap. Lastly, I think we should realise just how little the ICE vehicles have changed. Ignoring Aircon, because it lamentably hammers energy/fuel consumption and was not common back in 1990, I had a company car a Rover 214, a compact family car based on a DOHC 1400cc 4-cylinder Honda model. It gave over 50mpg on long runs, and had a couple of airbags I think, and drove really well once 4k miles later you’d run it in! Tight engines those Hondas. Fast-Forward to now - 30 years on, we have that slightly more cramped Clio turbo 3-cylinder and it gives 44mpg on long runs, no aircon usage. Pick any modern compact family car you like, below 1400cc - does a petrol one beat the Rover 214 from yesteryear, and handle, accelerate etc, decently? I say not. The truth is, ICE vehicles have been changed in terms of tech, but nothing can beat the fundamental inefficiencies of the fossil-fuel design. Question: why did the EV revolution not happen before? Answer, because just like trains the auto-oil cartels bought up in the USA in the 1930s, the same cartel has been buying patents and lobbying hard to keep alternatives to the planet-destroying gravy train at bay. GM etc bought the USA rolling stock among other moves, and the USA bought into their advertising blurb about personal transportation being hiways not railways. Hence a dearth of US railway facilities. Ever Ready, were never going to revitalise their battery designs based on flashlight (torch) sales, it was going to take a profit-driver to do that. The oil-auto cartel must be fighting a colossal rearguard action as we speak, that is the root of much of the pricing nonsense pointed out in the video surely? Thank you for the piece, this ought to be one of the more important EVs, unless of course, the VW e-up derivatives are perceived at ten grand less, as a more sane way to travel!
But the thing is batteries do not cost £7k-12k more than the petrol equivalent, it costs £1k maybe 3K at most, but auto manufacturers do not want to stop selling the fossil fuel vehicles as they make the most profit and I bet they get money from the fossil fuel companies as well. I bet Nissan, Renault or VW can sell a 250 mile electric car for about the same price as a petrol NOW! The only reason why Tesla can’t sell a 250 mile electric car for £20-25k because I need to build loads of big factories while the other automakers already have the factories and workers and machines to do it all.
The UK ZE50 doesn't come with the boot storage as standard. The cloth dash was also removed as well as the radar Emergency braking system and no adaptive cruise control due to no radar system :( Initially on launch they wanted £750 for the CCS option, now as you said they want £1000. I have the ZE40 and my right leg can't get comfortable due to no side support. I've test drove the ZE50 and for me thought the price to change wasn't practicable. The only thing I would like on my ZE40 would be the CCS DC charging as the range of ~180 miles is adequate for my usage, just would be nice to have potentially quicker DC charging and having 22kW AC charging as a backup if CCS had issues or in use. At least the new app works fully with the ZE40, the ZE50 users have several issues, IE no pre conditioning and incorrect range as they fundamentally made a basic error by dividing the miles by 1.6!
I plumped for a Corsa E Se Nav, Renault have been making Ev's for a fair while but like Nissan their tech has fallen behind. The zippyness of the Corsa-E which has the fastest 0-60 of all the new Corsa models made it a better option and the price was right thanks to reasonable dealer discount.
apart from faster charging the 208 and Corsa have liquid Battery Thermal Management, compared to Air of the ZOE, especially in extreme climates this is also worth considering.
For most people the Renault Clio 1.0l petrol is more sensiible.Electric cars are just not cost effective, unless you do a lot of milage in a small area (City). Also,I don't carry around my Petrol nozzle around with me,it's at the petrol station.Cost and practicality small petrol still wins.Another 8-12 years, things should look better for electric cars.So it's down to PRICE, PRACTICALITY & CONVINIENCE. Just my humble opinion.
Not cost effective? They’re actually cheaper to own when looking at it from a total cost of ownership point of view. Mainly due to fuel costs and very low depreciation.
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0:00 - "It's raining, it's windy. I'm wet and miserable." - That is the kind of intro I have been waiting to see somewhere, once. Not kidding. Brilliant and honest !!
August 2023 I recently bought a two year old Zoe GT LINE. Your road test conclusions were spot on! The built in 22kw charger and having a CCS 50KW Plug is very handy! The price was under £15k with only 9K miles and 3 years of warranty left! Finance 2.4% APR. BARGAIN!
We just brought ze50 gtline ccs , and got good deal off .done 1800 miles in under 5 weeks and cost less than 1p a mile on electricity so can’t knock it’s Efficiency had 190 miles in bad weather at 60-65 mph on motorway with 26 left and had upto 260 range in mixed town and a roads keeping to speed limits with upto 5.8 miles per kWh , had 210-260 ranges so better than wltp , which is good . Enjoying every moment first ev tried a few others and like you say for miles per £ it’s great . Family of 4 and everyone happy in Zoe . Going on long trips in summer holidays so it will be test of boot , but had £127 of shopping over week and with floor in the back fitted it all in so that’s good for small car. Saving 150-200 £ in first month in fuel. So all in all were happy with our first ev !
Compared with ZE40 the 50 is lightyears better according to me.. better interior, better light, better soundproofing, display percentage charge on display and so on... im sooo happy with y ZE50....
Congratulations !! Courious; did you get the CCS option ?
All EVs should come with Rapid DC charging and a Heat pump, Renault can get away with 22kW AC only in France where the chargers are everywhere, all RHD Zoe should include CCS, there will be many disappointed buyers who did not know they need to add this option and most dealers will not know they need to insist on adding it!
Charger are not everywhere in France.
I’m going there this summer, like every year, and I have to take a 150km detour because my usual route doesn’t have enough chargers (I just transitioned to ev)!
My dealer informed me about CCS but left it up to me, he said many customers got along fine with just 22 kW (Switzerland). I still took the option because I believe the Zoe gives the best of both worlds.
Keep in mind this is the only car with 22 kW included by default, even Tesla charges for this upgrade, and the 22 kW upgrade for Tesla is a lot more expensive than the CCS one for the Zoe. Heat pump is default as well, VW and BMW charge for this.
DC cabling is more dangerous, CCS won't be the industry standard, Tesla got that right too, most DC equipment is limited to about 60v, like eGO etc
@@williamgoode9114 So why does the Model 3 have CCS?
You have got better and better over the years, and are doing some of the best and honest car reviews. Well done, great review.
I think it is one of the best EV's on the market but your right the CCS charging should be fitted as standard, come on Renault it's 2020.
Many Many businesses use Zoe for local deliveries and they never need CCS. You want CCS? Spec it and stop complaining!
@@euruproktos1278 My point is you shouldn't have to spec it therefore paying extra, it should come as standatd.
Agree it should be standard on any car costing this much. It isn’t exactly a budget Dacia Sandero is it?
Thank you, I never stop learning something from your videos, blimey this week the speed limit is 70 mph.......gulp
Without rapid charging, it cannot be a practical long term option. The resale value alone will be affected without CCS.
u can charge upto 43kwh fast charge on electric highway chargers on all motorway services on just the standard type 2 plugs I have done it on my 22kwh Zoe no problem takes about 40 mins to do it to 100 % .
@@stevecapper9321 up to 43kW on the Q motor. The new Zoe 50 ONLY comes with the R motor. So if you don't spec CCS you can ONLY charge at up to 22kW maximum. If its a only car, you don't have a home charger perhaps and you don't do long trips then it'll be absolutely fine. If you want to do long trips however you'll want the CCS option (even if its proven to top out at 44kW in multiple tests) as a 2+ hours stop to charge might be a bit jarring on a long trip.
What do you use to plug your mic into when your outside? Phone maybe?
@@SandyRitchie Yes a lot of people get caught out with the Old Zoe. The Faste 43AC was pretty rare in the original Zoe. I had the Zoeze40 with R Motor so could only do 22kW AC but travellin in Ireland the distances arent that great so one charge on a longer trip over lunch was fine. If i was buying a Zoe now though id have to have CCS for convenience and Resale value.
It has CCS so yeahl. It's just a shame the Lane keep assist is crap - the app is crap and after 6 months it needs a shit loads of updates at the dealer!
My sister charges her Zoe once a week with driving it around 20 miles a day
One thing reviewers do not consider in England is the rust proofing new cars are given. I live in Sweden and always keep my cars for years so its important when buying new or used. Here the major car magazine always tests new cars and the Renault Zoe gets maximum points. Otherwise most of the Evs have relatively poor rust proofing. So the Zoe is a good buy if you intend to keep the car and even replace the battery in the future.
That's good to know - having just bought a 2020 Zoe R135. I'm planning to keep it for 10 years or so and wondered about rust proofing after seeing a video of a 2018 leaf underside that was so corroded the battery was in danger of dropping out!
We had pretty much decided to buy the Zoe from looking on the Internet due to the price and range until we went and actually sat in it. My hubby who is close on 6 foot tall thought the driving position was OK. I'm 5' 5" and when I sat in it the 1st thing I said to the salesman was how do I raise the seat. He told me I couldn't and I said I'd need a booster seat to see over the the steering wheel (I have a bad back so I don't exactly sit up straight). Then when we got in the back I realised there was no way my 14 year old would be able to fit in as I couldn't fit my feet under the seat and her feet were as big as mine. I don't think they should he selling a car without rapid charging tbh either. We kept our leaf for a bit longer and got a hyundai ioniq on lease thanks to a deal you shared on twitter so thanks for that. We love the ioniq for comfort, space, range and things they include as standard.
As I can't afford a TM3, I'm happy with my 64kWh Hyundai Kona. 200 miles at 70MPH in temps of -3C with heating & aircon on.
Nigel Wickenden that’s the info I was after - thanks 👌🏾
Nigel Wickenden
Me too, the kona electric is a great car, but would love the model Y.. Roll on next month and Ernie ££££
What kind of price difference do you have? In New Zealand a Kona lists at $78900 and TM3 is $81700
@@GavinScrimgeour I was getting 3.2 miles per kWh from a car that had done 4,500 miles. The bonnet had frost on it as there's no ICE to warm it up. My BIG mistake was putting the seat cooler on when I started the journey. After a while I realised and put the seat heater on.
In Canada the Kona is more expensive... How good is the Kona supercharging network?
I have updated from the ZE40 after 3 years and now have the ZE50. The main reason is the extra range and slightly faster charging. I generally drive no more than 150 miles and then need a rest. The highway code says you should rest after 2 hours which is about 120 miles. In my old ZE40 the car would have little extra range in case of a detour or a charger not working but the new one has about another 50 miles which means this problem is solved! Only need better infrastructure now. Should have at least 12 chargers at each service station not 1 or 2!
By the way, the new Zoe still has a button to press to remove the vacuum cleaner noise (when at low sleed) and make it silent. I was delighted when discovered it!
On range difference with the e-208 - that additional 30-40 miles covers the distance between service stations, so gives you the extra backup for when the Ecotricity CCS chargers at your chosen recharge motorway station are broken or occupied.
Which is most of the time.
Hey EVM,
Love your reviews.
I drive this car and have not been triggered at all by any of the comments.
You just give really great trusted reviews and recommend your videos to people.
Keep up the great work!
We are on our 3rd ZOE, we have a GT Line, cracking car - however I do agree re the CCS
Great review, having just bought the new Zoe Riviera I was told that all new Zoe’s are supplied with CCS 50KW rapid charging as standard now. The dealer Richard Sanders Kettering explained that only 10% of Zoe’s in recent times didn’t have the CCS option so from about June 21 it became a standard fitment. Strangely it lost the light over the drivers vanity mirror and inductive smartphone charging though
They are definitely limited to 87mph. My 88 bhp Zoe has the same top speed too, as does the 110. I'm sure mine could beat 100mph if it was let loose. It's not a problem though, it's a long time since I felt the need to max out every vehicle I have and 87 is more than I'll ever need.
Your videos are always entertaining as well as informative. I've clicked the bell icon as I look forward to seeing your videos in my notifications. You deserve more subscribers!
Maybe a lot of people just don't 'get' the Yorkshire sense of humour.
Thought I would give 3 things I like about this car and 3 things I dislike.
Like.
Range
Style
Soft dash materials
Dislike
Paying extra for CCS
That small screen
Fixed seats
Mike
All new Zoe’s come with CCS 50kw DC charging as standard
Purchased ZE40 NEW whilst waiting for ZE50 ccs to be made.The ZE50 is leagues ahead.I average about 4 miles to a kw so 200 miles range with varied driving.The CCS charges at 43kw to 60% and about 30kw from 60-90% it then drops to about 20kw from 90-100%. You can add about 100 miles in 30 mins. The CCS is ESSENTIAL even if it costs £1000 because ALL Zoes are a pain to charge on AC, especially if the battery is cold.(Typically the ZE40 would only charge at 14kw on a AC rapidcharger & 21kw ( warm). The ZE50 with CCS is perfect for the current UK charging network.I would not even consider the new mini , honda , golf , i3 , leaf as their owners have told me they are only good for around 100 miles! I get 180 miles at a constant 70mph on the motorway in the ZE50.(3.6miles/kw). Driven gently 5 miles/kw is possible achieving 245 miles.I have completed 1500 miles in the ZE50 and cannot fault it. Drives much better than the last Zoe and the dash is a big improvemnt with the ipad style touch screen with apple car play allows you to mirror apps like Spotify & Google maps onto the screen.Reversing camera image goes full screen on display! Front parking sensors are very handy when approaching a charge point as Zoe charges from the front and allows you to get close. Dealers will discount if you ask £32k List /paid £26k after grant.Oh, and the car came with a fully fitted 7kw homecharger with 5metre cable attached fitted by BP chargemaster and costs just £1 per hour to charge at home and adds 30 miles per hour.These chargers can cost £1000 if fitted seperately but all new zoes come with this free of charge if you own your own driveway.
CCS charging - requires few electronics as you are just directly charging the DC batteries with a DC charger that just pushes as hard as the car says it can take - does not cost £1000. There are protection circuits, but they are simple/cheap. That is different from AC charging which require high power inverters, cooling and electronics - that is what I would expect be £100's of pounds for. So yes, this is standard stuff from the car manufactures.
At a minimum, a DC charging inlet requires another contactor relay and extra high-voltage wiring. It's not trivial, and depending on where the battery terminals have to go, it may involve a fair length of high voltage/high current cabling. But I agree it's not something that should cost a thousand pounds either.
Does this battery have thermal management, cos a very high rate of charge for an extended period can over heat it, Tesla are precooled before charging
William Goode Yep it has active cooling (unlike the Leaf)
100% agree re the screen - my first thought when looking at it was how dated it looked with the massive bezel!
Seemed a lot of reflection even in rainy Yorkshire, smaller windows for reduced solar gain, but no car has solved the big black heat absorbing dash where the majority of heat gain occurs, less of a problem in UK granted.
The new Zoe is a nice refresh with the upgraded interior and bigger battery.
Shame the CCS is an option and at a time when new 150kw chargers are being installed, why does it max out at 45kw DC. For similar money I'd probably get the Corsa E, for the extra tech and charging...or wait for the next Zoe
I also don't understand why popular features available with the previous model have been taken away such as the button to open the charge flap, or the central armrest and storage.
Great review Andy, you're bang on regarding ccs charging particularly when we look at what's happening with ev's over the next couple of years and beyond.
I'm soon to swap from a 22kwh 2014 rapid charge Zoe into the new GTline, that's for me the best upgrade option. If I'd had a 40kwh Zoe I'd probably be happy for another couple of years, but triple range and newer gadgets is a winner.
Are you getting the CCS Charging?
No good without CCS, also when reselling it I wouldn't even look at a car without CCS as you need that capability for unexpected journeys.
Very complete, very reasonable. I agree with everything except for the desirability of AUX audio input - I _do_ use those.
Are you over 50?
@@ElectricVehicleMan It shows, eh? :o)
I collect (well, hoard) ancient HiFi portable thingies.
Do not excuse, whatever equipment you were using, hardly any wind noise, excellent sound, enjoyed the video, keep it up, thanks.
Thanks, I don't know why I am watching this, as I have just taken delivery of my Kia. What it does tell me is I made the right choice.
The screen is horrible, and no fast charging, are killers, the seats and headroom are also a secondary concern.
As a town supermini it is probably fine.
Thanks for a good review, as always.
I have to agree with you about CCS. It should be standard. Other than that it is a huge improvement over the ZE40
Totally agree about CCS. Just seems nuts not to have it on every model as standard. Although you didn't mention that it can take 22kwh from a type 2 which I wish more cars had.
Also need to factor in that it isnt watercooled battery pack, much like the leaf. So batterylife might be an issue over when the car has a few years on it. Maybe the MG ZS ev first gen is a safer car, with ccs standard and watercooled battery.
Went for the mg zs ev . More space for the the money.the retractable panoramic roof is Amazing as is the electric sunblind.ccs as standard.
Totally with you on sat nav screen , it looks like an afterthought, oh we need a screen stick it on top , as for no rapid totally wrong, should be standard
@Richard Wood Atleast the screen in Tesla cars are not blocking the air vents like the Renault does. Plus you really can't integrate a screen of that size within the dashboard.
You probably have realised by now that the Zoe only charges at 45kW on CCS, while the e-208 can charge up to 100kW, so the smaller range is more than compensated by the better charging speed
"the stereo", down to earth man👍 agreed screen an after thought. Whats the point of 110 or 135. 135 and 200 maybe.
I've just seen that they've carried on with one of my biggest complaints about our Clio. The internal front door handles are right at the front end of the doors. If it's a bit windy then you've got all that leverage of the door's length working against you. Even 6 inches further back would make a big difference. The handle design also means that as you operate the mechanism the handle isn't a strong thing to hold on to. There's that other handle further back alongside the electric window controls but that's not where your hand naturally falls.
Thanks for your videos! Quick pointer on a typo- "but has is their". Appreciating the down to earth informative videos as always!
Good review, I’ve ordered one, my first EV and looking forward to it!
A big winner on range for me, and price is always negotiable 😉 especially at the moment!
@TF no regrets at all, it’s a brilliant car. If you are travelling a long way in one day just plan your charge point and have spare points in case the first one isn’t working!
Just for info, that front area with the key symbol is NOT to charge the key fob but is where you place the fob if the battery is flat in the fob. It's a standard 2032 button cell.
Agree CCS should be standard.
Pre conditioning and charge flap opening were standard on the old Zoe, but I think Renault have gone for a "standard key fob" across their range.
I think the only version that has a "false floor" are those that have the Bose sound system.
Oh! no mention of the totally crap My Renault app and the the fact that you cannot pre condition the car with either the app nor the in-car system. Helpfully the car and the app say its "working", NOT. This will be available "real soon now" via OTA and an app upgrade.
For transparency I do own a ZE50.
The lack of seat height is not a problem for me.
Totally agree about the rapid charging as standard, cheeky of them to do that.
Best review of the Zoe I've seen yet for the detail and your honest views, and some interesting conclusions, great job Andy!
Lack of CCS as standard will make second hand searches of these a bloody nightmare (similar to the battery lease versions of the ZE40). Also am I right in assuming that without the CCS, you are stuck with 7.2kW charging or do those cars get 22kW three phase Type 2 charging?
22kw ac is standard.
I have said on a few other videos and reviews of the Zoe that it's rapid charging is too slow at only 50kW max, the e-208 can charge at 100kW so even though the Peugeot cannot travel as far on a charge, in the race to 80% battery you'll be on your way quicker in the Peugeot than the Renault.
If you can find a 100kw charger, how many public chargers are 100kw? And the 100kw is a best possible situation max limit, not very often in the real world will the pug and corsa get over 80kw charging speeds.
You will if you can find a CCS charger that goes upto 100kw.
Richard Wood from what I have seen in a test the 208 and Zoe both starting at around 10% battery after about 25 minutes the 208 is at 67% and the Zoe 42% and after 36 minutes the 208 is at 80% and the Zoe at 58%.
Yes there’s not many 100kW chargers yet but they are getting there and new faster chargers being put in all the time. I think most new £30k+ EVs will have faster than 50kW charging and the Zoe with an optional CCS 50kW charging is going to get left behind if they’re not careful. Let’s not forget this is Peugeot, Vauxhall & DS first real EV and it’s based on a ICE car. Renault like Nissan have been doing this for a long time. Nissan may have faster charging with their 62kW version but it will still rapidgate. I feel Renault need to step it up
Should we point out that for all intents and purposes humans are right handed, and if you drive on the left you have to operate the screen with your less coordinated digits, no quick fix for that, unless the Brits conform to driving like America and Europe and Asia etc etc
@@williamgoode9114 unless you're me - I'm left handed .......!!!
Hi EVM, this week I've test-driven both the Zoê 50 and the e-208 and I'm convinced that the Peugeot was slow, by comparison to the Zoê. However not including CCS in the Zoê is criminal. Here in France the Zoê can be bought with or without the battery - you can rent the battery.
The Chevy Bolt in the US has CCS as an option ( still seems to be true for the upcoming 2022 model year ). I bought a used Bolt and was careful to make sure it had CCS. I haven't used the CCS yet but it's there for a potential 180 mile trip from West Palm Beach to Orlando. I can't see me ever leaving the state of Florida in the Bolt. You never really fully deplete and fully recharge so I would tend to put one stop range at something like 170% of total range, so maybe 340 miles for the Zoe, especially as you are traveling at highway speeds and getting less efficiency. What seems really weird with the Zoe is giving you 22kW AC charging that you will never be able to use and not giving CCS. Replace the 22kW rectifier with a more modest 10kW unit and then put the savings into the CCS. This will hurt them IMO.
Fine test of the Zoe. But just keep in mind that hot as in hot hatch belongs on a track. On the road you need comfort and stability. Hot hatches with stiff springs and even stiffer anti roll bars are fun 5% of the time and a nuisance 95% of the time.
I just got rid of my Zoe ze40. Lack of maintenance to locals chargers and the ones that did work I couldn’t use due to the Zoe’s fussy charging parameters. Ended up having to regularly sit at a rapid charger for an 1hour+ (not even reaching 100%) just to be able to run the car. If I was to get another ev in the future proper rapid charging will be a must especially with some charging networks (ie instavolt) only supporting ccs and chademo. Would I choose a Zoe with ccs I’d still say no due to Renaults fussy charging string my experience if another car can charge on it the Zoe should be able to too.
Considered the ZE50, but MG ZS is more car for less money if you want CCS. Yes the range is lower, and there's no 22kw Type 2, but finding one of those is harder than finding 50kw CCS.
Not on the continent- type 2 accelerated is pretty common - have a look at france with electromaps
The MG ZS is made in China (and India I believe), the Zoe in France, your pick for where you want your money to go but I highly suspect some of the price difference comes from this
@@antwnpowell For clarity I am speaking about the UK perspective. I am not likely to be driving around the continent but the missus does have family in Scotland, where there are CCS aplenty. Even on the continent it looks likely that CCS is the de facto standard for rapid charging and like EVM points out, it would surely not cost Renault £1k to add it to the Zoe as a standard option.
@@EngineeringNibbles Judging from the anti-chinese sentiment on most Indian MG ZS videos on youTube I suspect it is only made in China. You may be right that I am unfortunately benefiting from lower and non-unionised labour costs in China though I would expect a sizable amount of the difference comes from the smaller battery pack. edit: There is local assembly in Thailand and India.
@@craiglawrence5211 I quite highly doubt the ~10kwh difference makes up more than 2,000£
11:25 Hey, that Aux input will be handy, when I connect my Rio Karma or Iriver H140. 😊
On the face of it, £1k extra for the CCS option is a bit ripe, but look at leasing costs and you'll see that the CCS equipped car is actually less money per month to lease compared to the base car, presumably because of better residual values. Only a small proportion of new car sales in the UK are to people paying outright, so you should really be talking about leasing/PCP etc costs as well as list prices.
Great review probably the best electric car for the price and range.
Great video. I’m pleased I located your content. The information will benefit many including myself. My first Motability car will be in 4 - 7 months. ❤
To be honest I'm very happy to have saved 1000€ and the complexity of the ccs. Had the car for a year never needed to charge in such a rush that a 22kw charger wouldn't be enough.
It will effect retail value though as the cars without CCS charging option will always be worth less without it & be less desirable
Had my Zoe for just over a month.
Great little car. My previous cars have been 'buses' - Sharan, Grand Voyager, Evoque and so quite a stepdown size-wise. Storage solved with false floor in the boot and armrest (though you lose a cupholder) to hide away small items.
Other car in household is TM3 - can't compare, but I prefer the dials to virtually everything on touchscreen (which I have to re-learn each time I take the Tesla out). Despite this being a 'second' car, range was important as I don't want to have to borrow the Tesla for when I'll eventually be able to go on long trips. Getting good range for winter (160 miles). Seems economical. (NB - NHS so I am driving every day). btw - used Carwow for big discount so didn't notice the cost of the extras (CCS and accessories) quite so much.
I purchased a Renault Zoe in May 2019 and I was so disappointed. I am wondering whether other owners had similar experiences. In a tropical climate A/C is as essential as heating in a cold one. Well it did not work from day1. After several attempts to solve the problem, the agent obtained a free replacement of the condenser from the manufacturer. To this day it still does not work. Right from the start the tyre pressure sensor also kept issuing a warning to « Check tyre pressure » which invariably ended up being correct. The agent always managed to reset it so that it did not show up any more. Sometimes the whole system blocked saying STOP ! The car had to be towed away. Recently I was told that the sensors had to be replaced and when i had paid for it, the warning still cropped up. The agent is finally submitting a request to Renault to change the whole tyre pressure monitoring system. Moreover, the domestic charger that comes with the car was working on and off and stopped charging after 4 years. The Agent was not able to replace it so i do not avail of a portable charger any more. The screen is dark and reflets so much that the camera iis useless for reversing. I resort to mirrors and stick my head out of the window to reverse or park as in the good old days. I have read about this defect in the media. Of the 10 cars i have owned this is by far the worst buy. I may have been unlucky and fallen on a particularly faulty Zoe. or are there many others like me ? I am all the more disappointed by my first electric car that for many years it has been a dream for me to own one.
You can open the charging lid with the unlock button on the key fob.
There is no filler floor in ZE50. Mine does not have one.
The false floor in the boot is an accessory. Every reviewer says you can't open the lid with the fob, and I haven't read anything on the manual. Are you sure you're talking about the ZE50?
Meh... in this "city car" category, I'll take a Seat Mii and save some money and enjoy the greater simplicity... of course only if either of them were available in the US (which neither is). You guys have many more and better options there in the UK. I'm jealous.
230miles plus isn’t a city car
I can see the motivation for keeping the glass surface small, but for those who have children who suffer from motion sickness and need to see the horizon to avoid being sick it’s not such a great thing...
And I agree, CCS should be standard.
I love auxiliary inputs. If I decide to use my custom SSD hardware with an AM/FM/8 track/Cassette/CD/MP3/early smart phone player then I can. Future proofing is always good.
The major issue with the Leaf in hot climates is early battery deterioration, as the batteries become too hot if air cooled. Liquid cooled battery systems have proven very effective in preventing early battery deterioration in hot climates. So how does the Zoe cool its batteries?
Air conditioning.
@@ElectricVehicleMan so if you spend the $1000 does that include enhanced battery cooling or anything to help the battery under full charging conditions.
Tesla go so far as to offer battery pre cooling.
Good review. My 2007 Mégane has a huge glove box and covered storage between the front seats, drivers seat height adjustment and it's comfy reliable and very cheap to run.
As you say Zoe has poor storage. Big negative for me.
No seat height adjustment? Wow what an omission! Bad.
Prefer manual handbrake (fun, trust, feel, serviceability), and spare wheel.
As I do carry sheet material, can you get 2.5 metre boards inside (passenger footwell to rear hatch)?
In too many ways EV credentials apart, it's a significant downgrade on my 13 year old basic car.
Looks like a case of Renault having different opinion to me on what the essentials are.
You listed a bunch of things that a smaller car can’t do.
You want and need a bigger car so don’t look for a hatchback?
@@edwinsmith9617 apart from car length (Mégane 2 vs Zoe is about 8 inches), the items I mention are achievable in a Zoe sized car.
In some Ford models RHD versions had somewhat inconvenient cabin filter placement. You needed to disconnect your fusebox in order to change one. On the other hand, you needed to remove accelerator pedal on the LHD version.
Very nice review Andy. I really enjoy your reviews.
you could blow hot air on to the display that could over time effect the display
Or sit it in the sun, next to a hot black dash
Swings and roundabouts of the charging. Most cars don't come with 22kw AC charging. Places like Ireland and France have 22kw charges everywhere, in the UK not so much.
The central unit has always been a non-issue for me in this car when looking at their pictures. Seeing your viewpoint and comments - I would have to agree, looks really out of place and tacked on as an afterthought, but I know it features in some of their other cars too. It's just odd. Which is a shame.
Great review. The Zoe is a great small car, but it is overpriced. When the VW ID.3 comes out, they will have to offer big discounts on the Zoe. CCS should be standard.
You can get good discounts already, I paid under £26K for the GT line with CCS.
Discounting already means depreciation will be in lead ballon territory.
Id3 is way overpriced to at least the launch version where you need to pay 4000 pounds for a higher trim to get essential stuff like backup camera, at least here in Norway.
If the ID3 comes out, not when.... 😂 why everyone thinks that car will be amazing without ever seeing one, truly baffles me...!
I think you nailed it. CCS should be standard. A lot of new EV buyers won’t even know to option it. I don’t kno if the price is too high because I know the CCS association gets a cut of every module sold. This is like the Porsche Taycan having a heat pump as an option in Europe and not standard.
IMO a heat pump should be standard on all EVs.
Thinking of buying a 2014 v.low mileage Zoe at a good price - your opinions please?
The pedestrian warning noise; there is a button to turn it off until you next stop, if you hold that button down, it changes the noise (this is the same as the ZE40).
The binnacle/dashboard display; there are 3 layouts to choose from through the infotainment system, you can also customise the indicator noise and volume, you can apparently also change the background image for a custom one, but I've no idea what the requirements for this are; there is only one choice built in, but I guess off is also a choice. On the ZE40 there is a physical button on the right of the display, which cycles through 3 layouts (each with or without the background colour for 6 choices); the there are also different indicator noises, but these are fixed to 3 display layouts.
There was a bug in the app where it was showing the range incorrectly, but they seem to have fixed that recently (it is converting km to miles then displaying that as miles, it was spot on if you multiplied the number in the app by 1.6, the guess-o-meter showed the correct range in the car). I have never received any notifications about charging, even though it is setup in the app (I do get Texts for the ZE40, even after the transition to the new app).
Also the marked key spot doesn't charge the key (it has a non-rechargeable CR2032 inside), it is the most sensitive spot for the car to detect it; it will tell you to place the key there if it can't detect it wherever it is.
Does seem strange, opening and closing cars with fob for years never had to change a battery yet
I can't get a ZOE where I live but I think being able to opt out of fast charging is fine if you want a commuter or use for daily life around your town/city. You know how far your commute is so you won't have to stop and charge on the highway plus home power rates are much cheaper than public chargers generally.
CCS at that rip-off cost goes to explain why EV cost so much more than the ICE version. Max profits now until EV becomes the mass sale version.
A car review 🙂 Good stuff.
Have a GT rapid charge ordered and due next week. Will be a second car and second EV to go with our Model 3 SR+ range and boot size persuaded us, looked at mini but with two kids the only 3 door option put us off. Good honest review and agree re CCS (we 'only' paid £750 as ordered in feb) don't think we will use but handy to have in case or for re sale.
£28000 in Australia.
My wife's 2019 Kia Serato cost £13400 and it's a bigger car and can get 50 miles per gallon.
I want an EV but not at current prices.
I get the life of vehicle costs are cheaper for an EV, but Australian unleaded is half the price of UK, which is a big factor over the long term.
I do want an EV eventually.
Yep, fair point. Need to wait for something decent in the 2nd hand market myself. Or significant advances in the conversion market. I'd be well up for converting my car.
Love my Zoe, no CCS on it but who cares as all the public 'slow' chargers are 22KW in Ireland which is perfectly adequate 👍
Forget about good range in winter, we are down to around 116 miles when temp hits zero !
Removal of the Side Head Air bag protection, the key card activated pre heat / cooling and the opening of the charge flap were retrograde steps AND not including CCS as standard were all big mistakes on Renaults part. Interior & exterior restyling & use of more durable Megane 5 stud wheel hubs & suspension were improvements
CCS is standard now.
@@ElectricVehicleMan yes better late than never
Yet to see Doug DeMuro do a review in the rain - or even in Yorkshire! Keep them coming👍
CCS was an option on early i3 models and lack of it was a big negative for resale. I went for a version with CCS but have found that I have not used it in three years as it makes no sense on a car with a range extender / small battery. Totally depends on your personal use case. Agree it should be an at cost option though.
It has some stupid flaws that any potential buyer should know about. And the biggest stupidity is that it could be fixed with firmware, but Renault just does not care.
If you live in a warm climate (never below 7 degrees C) these complaints/issues do not apply to you.
When it is cold, you can not control the traction battery heating. So if being on a journey when it is below -5C your maximum charging speed is 7kW even at 20% SoC. To get full charging speed the traction battery needs to be above +7C.
The heating of the cabin can not be controlled during charging. A workaround exists, heating can be turned on thru the app. But the temperature will still be drop to about 10C if it is below -10C outside.
The heating/cooling thru the app is limited to 10min, no matter what, but it can be repeated every 10min manually...
So it is not sufficient in low temperatures as it will not heat up the cabin or the traction battery enough when it is below +5C in 10min.
The supplied single-phase 230V cable is strict 10A only and has no adjustments neither in the charging cable nor in the car settings, it is always maximum charge speed and always to 100% SoC.
Ik it's no comparison, but my 2007 Seat Altea xl doesn't have blanked out buttons. It's a base model but the limited rebel plus version. Still, this looks nice though. I really like the refresh of the inside
I agree that CCS Charging should be Standard !!! Also, If they are going to charge extra for CCS, the price should be a quarter of what they are charging !!!
The problem with the e-mini is it's only three doors.
The seat do move up and down. It's on a slop when you move it front and back. Think it's 4cm only tho. Might be enough for most ppl.
In most respects this is an excellent car but the lack of driver seat height adjustment and standard rapid charging seem bonkers. However I like the fact they've made a super mini with super mini performance rather than getting obsessed with 0-60 acceleration like so many other EVs and the range is excellent. The main issue is it is starting to look ordinary and expensive next to newer models. And I think the second car point is an excellent one that many reviewers ignore. If this was my only car the range would be a massive attribute, if it was a second car I would much rather buy a Mini EV or Mazda MX30.
I’d still prefer a larger glass area in general for visibility
It's also for crash safety you'll find a lot of cars have bigger doors and smaller windows
No CCS, blanked switches, yours for 30 grand. They're having a laugh 😂
Wireless charging for phones another car sales myth, what they mean is wireless charging for Apple and Samsung phones.
My hubbys Huawei phone charges wirelessly on our hyudai ioniq so does my Samsung and the kids iPhones.
@@smithy4121 yeah I said Apple and Samsung were sorted. I can vouch that Xiaomi, OnePlus don't work in our Kia Niro plug-in & the Xiaomi didn't work in the new e-niro or Soul-ev during a short test recently. And before anyone says yes the phones are capable.
Think the point here is £30K is not peanuts its a significant purchase for most 'normal' cars. So I am of the opinion it should feel premium and it should not cost a lot to add some soft plastic and design the interior like you care. Nahh even though I initially thought I may like this its just not good value. I'd rather pay a little more for a little more quality.
But come the revolution when all new cars are EV's say in 5 years time there will be some cracking vehicles on the market and I can't wait until all the manufacturers start trying to out do each other. I expect an EV in 2025 to have 300+ range as standard with rapid+ charging, and a quality finish that is better than cars in 2020. I also would expect them to be in the price range £15K and upwards or less for a real small basic car as after all a car in 2025 will be a skateboard with an electric motor and a battery not that difficult to manufacture :-)
If I could have a wish for 2021 I would love to see an EV the size of the original 2 door SMART with 200 miles range for about £15K as a 2nd car but maybe I am dreaming but once battery costs become commodity it should be possible. I live in hope.
@@michaeldawson6309 the smart car was the car that saved Tesla, that was Elons' first big collaboration,and it could be again, slightly higher, so all the battery pack fits under, and by then we'll have pronged slide in charging where the tow bar used to be, rather than gasoline type plug in fuel ports, with cables and hoses.
The car will self port, like summon, no need to get out in rain or snow, same as automatic trailer hitch.
Well, that's a LOT of phones.......!!
A good honest review Andy
! DEMAND PRICE PARITY WITH EQUIVALENT ICE VEHICLES ! No, I don’t know who to make the demand of either, but...my wife bought a Renault Clio 0.9 tce, and it was middle-spec and slightly lower profile tyres etc, and cost let’s say £13,000 including a service plan thing that preserves your warranty for 3 years. We looked at a Zoe at the time, but they weren’t a patch on the 2020 EV (2015 range about 100 miles?). So,we could buy one Clio for us and one spare for our daughter that just passed her test, with enough money left over to buy all the petrol for one of them, for a year, for the £26k to £29k cost of this Zoe you are moderately enthusiastic about.
I love the Zoe, but your obs regards CCS is pointing out the tip of the relative pricing iceberg. I think the Road Tax is ten quid per annum - I pay £150 for the 20-year-old Clio we have. That’s £150 more road tax than a £50 k Tesla performance car that weighs three times as much. But, we all know taxation is nuts. Observe at a meta-level what’s happening - less affluent people are being made to buy petrol cars and pay 20 x the per mile tax in the UK that EV owners can buy into.
Poor people are buying the older ICE cars that were not designed to work around or fit with the Road Tax system, which of course, is outmoded by EV advances, and nobody in the EV world wants to talk about Taxation on their cutting-edge daily drivers . I wouldn’t either, because any money you save may well be gobbled up by insurance premiums or tyre costs.
If say model 3 owners were also subjected to a new taxation regime that say made them pay what tax I pay on a tiny Clio from the year 2000, they’d pay another £500 to £750 a year give or take. The average Tesla insurance cost in the USA apparently is four grand $US ! This unresolved tax matter that likely has a burgeoning dossier in the Treasury expanding daily, is a matter creating doubt that may make people lean towards leasing (I see your other vid on that subject).
I doubt cheap small EVs will be hit - but does a car costing nearly THIRTY grand retail, deserve to have a discount of thousands handed to the buyer, when it’s almost not a choice now. EVs have become capable and are tipping into mainstream - by 2023 I think test-driving EVs as part of a buying project for normal people, will be an everyday occurrence, only held back by the insane retail pricing policy of making polluting vehicles really really cheap.
Lastly, I think we should realise just how little the ICE vehicles have changed.
Ignoring Aircon, because it lamentably hammers energy/fuel consumption and was not common back in 1990, I had a company car a Rover 214, a compact family car based on a DOHC 1400cc 4-cylinder Honda model. It gave over 50mpg on long runs, and had a couple of airbags I think, and drove really well once 4k miles later you’d run it in! Tight engines those Hondas.
Fast-Forward to now - 30 years on, we have that slightly more cramped Clio turbo 3-cylinder and it gives 44mpg on long runs, no aircon usage. Pick any modern compact family car you like, below 1400cc - does a petrol one beat the Rover 214 from yesteryear, and handle, accelerate etc, decently? I say not. The truth is, ICE vehicles have been changed in terms of tech, but nothing can beat the fundamental inefficiencies of the fossil-fuel design.
Question: why did the EV revolution not happen before? Answer, because just like trains the auto-oil cartels bought up in the USA in the 1930s, the same cartel has been buying patents and lobbying hard to keep alternatives to the planet-destroying gravy train at bay. GM etc bought the USA rolling stock among other moves, and the USA bought into their advertising blurb about personal transportation being hiways not railways. Hence a dearth of US railway facilities.
Ever Ready, were never going to revitalise their battery designs based on flashlight (torch) sales, it was going to take a profit-driver to do that. The oil-auto cartel must be fighting a colossal rearguard action as we speak, that is the root of much of the pricing nonsense pointed out in the video surely? Thank you for the piece, this ought to be one of the more important EVs, unless of course, the VW e-up derivatives are perceived at ten grand less, as a more sane way to travel!
But the thing is batteries do not cost £7k-12k more than the petrol equivalent, it costs £1k maybe 3K at most, but auto manufacturers do not want to stop selling the fossil fuel vehicles as they make the most profit and I bet they get money from the fossil fuel companies as well. I bet Nissan, Renault or VW can sell a 250 mile electric car for about the same price as a petrol NOW! The only reason why Tesla can’t sell a 250 mile electric car for £20-25k because I need to build loads of big factories while the other automakers already have the factories and workers and machines to do it all.
The UK ZE50 doesn't come with the boot storage as standard. The cloth dash was also removed as well as the radar Emergency braking system and no adaptive cruise control due to no radar system :(
Initially on launch they wanted £750 for the CCS option, now as you said they want £1000.
I have the ZE40 and my right leg can't get comfortable due to no side support.
I've test drove the ZE50 and for me thought the price to change wasn't practicable.
The only thing I would like on my ZE40 would be the CCS DC charging as the range of ~180 miles is adequate for my usage, just would be nice to have potentially quicker DC charging and having 22kW AC charging as a backup if CCS had issues or in use.
At least the new app works fully with the ZE40, the ZE50 users have several issues, IE no pre conditioning and incorrect range as they fundamentally made a basic error by dividing the miles by 1.6!
I hope they improved the battery management and longeivity of the battery.
Yes please try Hyundai ioniq electric
I plumped for a Corsa E Se Nav, Renault have been making Ev's for a fair while but like Nissan their tech has fallen behind.
The zippyness of the Corsa-E which has the fastest 0-60 of all the new Corsa models made it a better option and the price was right thanks to reasonable dealer discount.
I would be interested if the E-208 and the corsa-e have a less of a drop in winter if they have proper battery conditioning.
apart from faster charging the 208 and Corsa have liquid Battery Thermal Management, compared to Air of the ZOE, especially in extreme climates this is also worth considering.
Zoe has liquid
For most people the Renault Clio 1.0l petrol is more sensiible.Electric cars are just not cost effective, unless you do a lot of milage in a small area (City).
Also,I don't carry around my Petrol nozzle around with me,it's at the petrol station.Cost and practicality small petrol still wins.Another 8-12 years, things should look better for electric cars.So it's down to PRICE, PRACTICALITY & CONVINIENCE. Just my humble opinion.
Not cost effective? They’re actually cheaper to own when looking at it from a total cost of ownership point of view.
Mainly due to fuel costs and very low depreciation.
actually that aux in puts out noticeably better audio than bluetooth.