THIS WAS A TOTALLY UNNECESSARY SERVICE CALL
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- This service call could have been prevented but instead the customer chose to skip the preventive maintenance and the result was the murder of this compressor.
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My day job is computer security and these types of failures remind me a lot of an unfortunately common attitude I've seen over the last ten years, where clients just want a checkbox exercise that says someone looked at it and aren't interested in investing any time or money into upfront preventative work. The irony is that they always end up spending more down the line because they have to go back and jerry-rig fixes and spend way more time and money fighting avoidable problems. Different industry, same deal.
Just about every industry experiences this. Automotive mechanics. Plumbers. Electricians. Healthcare.
@@JV-pu8kx yeah. to the point that even the workers got that mentality ... "it's for a customer only, so i can slack off" and those were the people that should teach me stuff (carpentry apprentice in germany at the time) and i learned something: not like this :D
I actually work in a similar IT industry where account security and permissions issues are getting completely ignored. It’s not just customer data at play here, there’s records bound by law to be safeguarded. It’s a super f*cked up situation.
We have the man hours to handle it but management doesn’t understand nor care about it. They have no experience with system/user security and their concept seems to be “well no one has told us it’s been breached, so we’re good right?”. WTF. All I can do is keep reporting my concerns in detail to maintain a paper trail showing I’m aware and not neglecting the obvious issues.
@@TitaniumTurbine I have played the CYA paper trail game as well! I worked for Centurylink and was in a position that required Secret Squirrel clearance from Department of Defense. At first, our quality of service was way higher than our normal service delivery. But as mergers happened due to economy and downsizing, it seemed that those bad management decisions creeped across the line.
I left the company and I do NOT miss it. I went into business for myself and I can dictate the quality of service we provide.
I don 't answer to ridiculous shareholder expectations.
The result has been incredibly good feedback from customers who provide positive feedback. Direct communications allows me to hear their expectations and then to exceed them whenever possible. Obviously, there are times where we have to deal with product limitations but, our labor can be top notch.
No regrets.
True story here "I didn't know I needed to update my firmware on my routers and switches. That's how they crypto locked my data center."
Smh
This is BY FAR the BEST HVAC TH-cam page I’ve seen! From start to finish you get an in depth look at a service call. You get detailed diagnosis and troubleshooting. You even took apart the compressor and inspected it. As an HVAC tech myself I enjoy your videos. This page is GOATED 🐐
Training videos for his own techs.
Thanks for the nice words bud!! I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on TH-cam come over and check it out th-cam.com/users/liveG2ksviK8zDc
The firmware in the controller really should have considered the temp sensor faulty given the value it was reading. It could have gone into lockout and thrown a code and perhaps saved the compressor.
It's annoying when lack of maintenance becomes an emergency on the weekend. It's like all that money you "saved" not doing a quarterly pm just got blown up with emergency service and parts that would probably still be fine if the sensor was noticed during a PM
100% agreed
@@HVACRVIDEOS by the way Chris, I know you don't have time to watch all those day time soap operas again? But you still have asshole written on your forehead again. Love you buddy, you be safe out there.
To know what resistance the belly band heater should be, it said 40 watts at 240v. It is a purely resistance device basically:
P=I*V, or I=P/V = 40w/240v = rated current (i) would be 0.166A.
Ohm's law R = V/I = 240v/0.166amps = 1.445 kOhms.
That is exactly what you measured with your meter for resistance, so it's good electrically.
If you were checking amps draw, need to remember you are at 208v at that location, so
I = V/R = 208v/1.445 kOhms = 0.144 amps. (which is also exactly what you measured at 0.28 amps with 2 wraps of wire)
Regarding that case heater, it's purely resistive, so you can just do P=IV so 40W / 240V = 0.166A, then R=V/I, so 240V / 0.166A = 1440Ω, which means your resistance reading was spot on.
Thought of that as well. Then thought we never really do those equations in the field but actually could be useful
Even faster : P=V²/R, or in this case R=V²/P
@@moteuteu yeah but I find it way easier to just remember ohm's law and the power equation.
Agreed you can argue with Ohm's law and Mass
Correction math accidentally hit send before immediately correcting oopsie it happens
Love the autopsy! Be proud that you are educating many techs with your channel. So glad I found it!
Your video timing is always divine. Just had a compressor leaking from a rust spot in its head at the suction line. Didn’t realize that was an indication of flood back. Replacing the compressor this afternoon. I like to think I would have found if it was flooding back but now I’ll DEFINITELY put it on the radar. Thanks for another great lesson Chris!!!
Hey at least it helped or potentially help someone I'm sure that this video will help someone down the road.
Not a technician but this stuff does help me with things and knowing more about troubleshooting and much more and it's just interesting how things can go and what you might learn even if it's not your field you're still able to learn from different aspects of things.
I've seen a few bad compressor us on Old frigerators.
Close to where I live they have mini splits and the other units of the larger condenser outdoor units all heat pumps as well.
Can't think of a brand name but apparently these are known to have problems I've heard about a lot of these bite the dust.
There's one even if you're quite for a way it sounds like a heavy duty vehicle of some sort or even some types of heavy equipment.
That compressor is clearly on the way out the sound is like the sound of surging and it sounds like is struggling so hard it sounds like it might go anytime.
I was actually one time going for a walk one of the units had blown in Sterling bejeebers out of me!
Pretty sure what it was the electrical connection at the compressor letgo possibly electrical fault.
Definitely would startle anyone.
I think there was one of those doing something similar in one the videos as well!
There was a huge record clearly something let loose!
She let go good I can do you that
Where are used to live even though an apartment maintenance text there was having problems with the unit all the time.
They realized I knew what I was doing was able to help make sure that everything was running right.
Was an R12 system unfortunately not only that it was old and well decrepit the outdoor unit was basically completely shot!
Leaking refrigerant for sure topped up several times!
And I'd heard they had had plenty of problems before I moved in.
They actually made it so that I can easily get to the Lauren set by just moving some insulation to just check to see if it's operating properly.
When they realize I was able to check.
Said we need to have service calls as much for maintenance.
Also generally they would have maintenance change filters however if they realize people could take care of this for themselves would just either have filters available at the office or they doing something else bringing extra the people extra filters.
First thing I did was have a digital thermostat installed it was so badly installed the Old Mercury switch one it was so out of level there is no way to even have an accurate thermostat by any means.
The melting was off by several degrees as well as the Box wasn't even leveling the first place doesn't help that you can't actually put that one level within the adjustment range!
What were they thinking putting that in.
Not only that later on bypassed the float for the condensate drain.
The system was never properly installed one the maintenance text actually read it that is what actually works properly or at least as much as it could.
Helped a little but not much the bottom panel that was meant to be removed in that top of insulation was still in place.
Originally a filter within the utility closet door.
It's so much restriction the way it was installed was pulling air into a small gap between a board holding up the indoor unit.
There was just a small gap between that and the door.
So much so that it would pull the door shut just because of the airflow.
Even though plenty of room in the door vent return air goes to show how badly things were done.
It did make quite a bit of difference but not enough to overcome the inadequacies of the install and the conditions of the rest of the HVAC system.
It was just pitiful and it was a slum there's well unfortunately.
Almost everything was online listed as Aslam and slumlord and just about everything you can think of wrong every one of the boxes checkmark checkmark checkmark rinse repeat
Nice video. I have pioneer engineering and construction. I teach commercial refrigeration and hvac to my crew in the morning before work. I have been in the industry since 1992. I appreciate your videos. I send them to my crew from time to time.
It's important to teach and help carry on years of knowledge.
Good job.
I'm loving the compressor postmortem tear down, even if you're not a mfgr engineer. We don't have any other data besides your hypothesis to explain these things. And, it's a great dissection not many get to witness.
Fella I went to a big acetylene bottle and rig with different tips never looked back. Love it so much better than oxy acetylene. I don't care what anyone says the old guy that turned me on to it wasn't wrong. The bottle lasts forever your not always out of one gas or another
That sharp and metallic sound from the compressor told me immediately that there is some significant play somewhere in there.
I was somehow expecting to the compressor to have a failed crank bearing or even a bent connecting rod after trying to compress some stuff that is not compressible, but apparently the reed gave up first and it was just the top end of the connecting rod which got busted.
The piston with wrist pin play might have done some extra hammering against the valve plate after the initial event.
I am learning new things from your videos. To me this seemed first like bearings coming to a seize and braking the compressor motor that way but like you said it was more like a hydrolock event with the liquid refrigerant.
19:54 it’s always important to be rubbing with the rubber haha
I am working in IT, have no clue about all this but I love watching your videos. Interesting until the end. I love your approach of really diagnosing things and looking at the big picture instead of just putting 'band aid' on and not actually fixing an issue, rather prolonging the 'failing state of a system'. There are so many parallels to IT systems, it's fascinating. Thank you for making these videos and enabling people from all trades just have a glance into this world.
One of your best videos yet. Really enjoyed this one. Nice job on the compressor teardown, too. It was weird how the compressor at the beginning of the video suddenly started bogging down. 👍
IMO, this is one of your best video.
Great trouble shooting the floodback / ke2 issue and headpressure valve all together. I love doing these kind of calls.. but yeah not on Saturday "off" .
Great work!
Thanks so much for the nice words bud!!
i think i saw 33A draw when it sounded like it was losing voltage
I 'm not an HVAC tech, but have interest in it, and really enjoy your vids,
BTW what is the long black tank behind the compressor at 87:40 for?
I have learned alot from your vids. and does this mean that I am going
to start going around trying to fix peoples HVAC systems? NO
#1 don't have, cant afford the necessary equipment.
#2 do not have cert. or enough balls to Attempt to do repairs without that much know-how.
#3 I am aware that watching a series on HVAC tech, does not an HVAC Tech. make.
So in a car transmission, say a turbo 450 or whatever you want, if the paper gasket sticks to one side of valve body usually means water /moisture go in to it. I wo def if the same applies to refrigeration compressor.
Great autopsy! I'm more of a car guy (hobbyist anyway, retail by day, wanting to get into HVACR), but some of the engine knowledge carries over to a piston compressor. Hearing it run was akin to hearing an engine about ready to seize, and seeing those skirts on the pistons just confirmed it was ready to let go (or.. not let go.. ever again).
Apollo 13 flight control, do we have a go or no go ? copy ? Chris are we still on VOX or on Hootie and The Blowfish- hold my hand, copy ?
Being cheap with pricy things causes long term issues. I with some friends replaced a well pump we had a issue with wire connectors that's not suitable for 240 volts. It was a very pricy weight till we were given the correct part. The clamps can be a long term issue 5-10 years from now cause they are from lowes and are not 100 percent stainless steal.
3:52 - "Smell my fingers." 😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣
Sorry. I had to do it. 😔
22:04 ignorant question... if you noticed that the temp. sensor was touching the heater, why did you replace it anyway? couldn't you have just zip-tied it to the right place and saved the client a few dollars?
zip ties on a temperature sensor is kinda bad though...
This would be a good video to go back and break down some argon. One thing that puzzles me is, @14m when the compressor was starting with pressure on the side it needs to draw from, and no back pressure on the side it needs to push in to- why does the amp draw start high then drop? Seems to me that the compressor could spin for fun till it was asked more and more to push up hill , then draw current... or do these have an ability somehow to get more done when the demand is low. But then to actually need more power than when they are seeing the full psi? It's hard to comprehend what is going on.
Who told you that lubricant will give you a false tork well you have it backwards and I means absolutely backwards
it looks like a single phase compressor was used instead of 3 phase
a single phase would have common, start and run markings a 3 phase would use a, b, c or L1, L2 and L3.
a single phase may work for a little while because large compressors like that dont have overload protectors that are removable they have the protectors internally and the protector usually opens the common connection.
in single phase substitute the 3 phase may get the compressor to start and run for a short while then it gets hot and the thermal protector opens and now the connection is going through the start/run windings and may still run but will bog down.
that is my theory.
why dont you remove the plastic off your Pressure checkers LCD?
What is the receiver has a plug office that lets the oil return back to the compressor? It’s just going to burn another compressor up.
10:31 - A drier dries; a compressor compresses: and a rubber rubs. So, rubbing without a rubber can cause rubouts, fight?
There’s a reason that compressor burned up I didn’t burn up but there’s a reason there’s a problem with it it probably has a lot to do with the oil return
About damn time we get a long video!!!! 😂 Got home early today now I got you up on my 80inch! 💪
Starting at 08:06, you absolutely must overdub the music from the silent film era, 'the compressor hoist' looks like a scene from a Charlie Chaplin film!
Sounds like it could use a cpr valve to keep it from flooding. Liquid could have washed out the oil causing internal damage
Totally unnecessary call = 50 minute video
Not that it matters, but P=IE. We can figure out the resistance of that crankcase heater.
Kind of interesting at 33:00 when brazing the M/I it turns yellow to green instantly. I assume due to the heat, the moisture is boiled or removed out of the sensing element. Cool
Pretty sure it's a camera thing.
And I thought it was due to copper being present. I say that only because of hydrochloric acid or was it sulfuric acid reacted with copper turning green? That was in middle school and I'm now 56, SMDH,LOL!
@@natepeterson7145 Maybe, but they do turn from yellow to green when moisture is removed. Just wasn’t expecting to see it happen that quickly. They will be yellow when opened to atmos.
He didnt flow nitrogen as he should have. The green and yellow is left over refrigerant burning into carbon on the outside and inside if the piping.
Do you service near la mirada area. In california right off the interstate 5
Just wondering, do you not purge your braizes with nitrogen, didn't see it in the video
Bad sensors that go unaddressed are equipment killers, good preventative maintenance will prevent that. Great video chris
Can you use Sta bright 8 instead of brazing.
Definitely heard that compressor slow down briefly on the phone microphone. Strange problem for a good Copeland, I figured you would find the cause of the failure. Good you caught it in time before it burnt up and contaminated the whole system. Excellent showing the disassembled compressor. Definitely liquid coming back and lack of lubrication killed that thing. Nice quality video. 👍🏻
After watching you pull your tools and comp onto the roof I have one comment to make...I used to do the same thing ( retired now after 45 years ) and ended up with a hernia and bowel issues that had to be operated on. May never happen to you but doctor said I wasn't his first patient that had similar results from lifting that way. Just be cautious. You do a great job of troubleshooting. I was a tech and instructor and when i watch some of these other vlogs i cringe how some do their jobs.
What's the better technique?
If anyone wants to know the kickass tune he had playing during the brazing montages:
Vincent Vega "Space Out" (instrumental).
I love the SoundHound app.
Shazam works good too..
Never heard one make that sound......
Sounds as if it's got the brakes on. I'm going to guess a bearing is going bad, when it gets hot it expands and it too big at that point.
Thanks for the video! Love problem solving videos and watching others work through them. I work from home in tech, but this is absolutely something I like knowing more about. I feel ‘smarter’ with my own home HVAC system.
Like the addition of music when you’re soldering. I have always liked watching the process, but it seems tedious sometimes.
Thanks for the content and walking us through your “big picture” troubleshooting. Always an enjoyable day when I see a new video!
in the beginning when you were measuring continuity shouldn't the resistance between common+run and common+start equal the resistance between run and start? this part made me look up a video on it (th-cam.com/video/EvzwyDl4Fgg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ACServiceTechLLC) and I noticed on your murnt compressor each winding didnt have different resistance they both had about the same resistance. does this foreshadow the compressor being bad, does it mean the compressor is bad or does it not mean anything? Thanks
or do those results just occur because you didnt unplug the wires lol
No because this was a 3 phase compressor, if it was a single phase compressor than the resistance values would be different. But you are definitely asking the right questions so great job for being curious!!!
No music on top of your welding, please. Or at least keep it low. Pretty please. 🙂
Does anyone know what that paste is while he is brazing? Is it a sort of coolpaste that stuf wont burn (copper, wires etc). I normally use really wet towels so nothing extra wil burn
It is called Viper Wet Rag and it is made by refrigeration technologies. You can find it at your local wholesaler and or from trutechtools.com if you use my offer code (bigpicture) one word you can get a discount at checkout and than I get a small commission from that
Sorry I accidently hit the thumbs down button when trying to hit the thumbs up button. I love all your videos.
All good bud, thanks for watching!!!!
The tag on that compressor is pretty white and shiny, was that recently replaced?
Also that rack looks similar to the rack at my local PF Chang's.
Loved your videos with the BJs units. Showed my crew at the shop meeting and they're like "hey we're all too familiar with that this guy's dealing with"
That filthy oil smells the worst, almost an immed migraine.
Me personally i wouldn't of risked contamination using that old refrigerant, unless the customer supplied the compressor
The whole time I been in the business never seen a compressor opened up that was awesome to see what happened I like the way you explained everything I learned alot I really enjoy your videos
Oil doesn't come back to the compressor when you have a restriction low charge, or low flow do to unloading / vfd running low speed. The old compressor amp draw was almost the same as the new compressor.
7:40 V=IR, P=IV, P=49, V=265, solve for R. R = V^2/P, in this case just about 1440 ohms.
I love the fans in that orientation, but if those ice up, that's going to be a nightmare of melting ice and dripping water. One of those, "as long as nothing goes wrong, it' s better" kind of things.
You just pop out the fan motors and defrost it from the inside and it usually just drains down the drain line. It's more time consuming than dropping the pan but it saves a lot of cleanup
There's nothing cooler than a satisfied box
I wonder if that small piece of metal is caught in the liquid line drier.....would that be possible?
Whats up Chris,thanks for the video!
Good job!! Was the pipe clamp missing that rubber boot installed that way? I don’t understand how they just disappear 🤷
finally a long video without long outro! kudos!
I feel like the compressors themselves should have some sensors and protecting circuitry. But with the option to bypass these incase the sensors become faulty.
PS: I REALLY love the compressor autopsies!
I finished it. I am assuming that the combination of flooding back and the crankcase heater being dropped at the bottom of the compressor, killed it. Great video. Thank you.
I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on TH-cam come over and check it out th-cam.com/users/liveG2ksviK8zDc
Hey Chris, I like your podcast/social media, looking thru some comments/reply. I would too take you into the design and engineering office, and out onto the factory floor again? But, Nancy Pelosi might not like that again? Too mean hammer head sharks? And the FBI might be replacing your main frame again. God bless america.
Ment compressor changes sorry
Chris, I'm a senior long term tech (got my EPA in 04) with failure analysis background from my Navy ET days. I'm primarily a Refrigeration guy, but am also fairly good with light commercial HVAC up to about 25 tons.
I'm curious why you use R407C vs R422D for R22 replacement retrofits.
I'm extremely impressed with your teaching style as it's very similar to mine. I operate on the theory that the details are absolutely critical in training because it gives folks more places to tir the information into a coherent and useful whole.
Kudos.
Just to be that guy cuz I can when are they going to put in elevators on these properties to make it easier to get on the roof LOL 😂😂
Ummmm why unnecessary ?
Never usually envious of fridge men, you guys work insane hours, but I’m jealous off all that space you have to work on that compressor, you’ll never get that on vrv
Trick to test heaters: V^2/R=W so on that belly band heater: you read the 265V section, but either works. (265V*265V)/1465 ohms read on meter=47.9W. Or: (240V*240V)/40W = 1440 ohms nominal should be on the meter.
The brazing music sounded a lot like "Dirty Laundry".
I was surprised you changed the dryer when you never actually opened up the system.
I haven't finished the video yet, but I need to comment before I forget. I see that the Crankcase Heater was loose at the bottom of the compressor maybe due to vibration? Maybe someone put it down while on a service call and forgot to put it back? I am just speculating why the compressor might have gone bad.
Watch the high side pressure control line when brazing
I've hit it before once and never again ! whilst system pumped down and lost the full charge
Learnt some stuff. Multiple brazing montages. Today is a good day.
while I certainly couldn't say without being there -- that noise made me think low oil in the compressor -- not LIKLY.... but it kinda gives me flashbacks to some trouble cases. Well maybe A trouble case -- Traps are important and often tough to see
The piece at 39:46 may be the brocen off part of the reed valve. :)
No TurboTorch, eh??
I have done 3" silver braze many times with a small turbo tip
It's all I carry for the last 40 years
Where would the oil go
No Nitrogen Purge ??
Hi Chris great work as always. Just a question, regarding nylog on the pressure control flare fittings. Do you ever use a quater inch copper washer to make a seal, or is only using nylog good enough, especially on the hp side. Just wanted your opinion. Thank you
Burned refrigerant has a bit of a old burned garlicky smell .
I wonder what the software life cycle is like on those KE2 controls? I would hate to have to keep one in service connected to the Internet without being able to do security updates.
I live in central Australia and ive only ever seen sump heaters wired in an Aux NC contact with the comp contactor so it only ever runs when the compressor is off. Im guessing it is different where you are due to lower ambient temperatures?
Also I like that the evaps have controllers on them. Seems quite useful. Im guessing thats from factory aswell? If i was doing a new install of a freezer/coolroom we would use 3rd part controllers to the solenoid and temp probes etc ...
Also the expasnsion devices that we deal with are largely Txv's. Some Electronic ones but only ever seen them in some package units.
Cheers
Love the vids :)
have you ever tried induction brazing? I've seen a number of short demos on yt, but no expert talking about it. I'm curious if it's a viable alternative.
Wouldn’t even stay running.
Slightly oversized? 😂
So both evaporators are controlled independently from each other?
They should be communicating but for whatever reason they aren't, so in this case yes they are independent
@@HVACRVIDEOS Ah ok, thanks for the explanation. I was just wondering since normally in the other videos with 2 Evaps one is always master and one always slave.
@@HVACRVIDEOS have come across any wireless technology there the commercial end?
Had one do something similar, cut it open to see and it had copper plating on the bearings and bores making it run tight and eventually stall.
Yeah I was really surprised how good the inside looked beside the piston and valve plate... no copper plating at all
@@HVACRVIDEOS oh God , another rocket scientist? Hmmm? cost,cost,cost?
Would it be possible that the missing piece from the compressor got disintegrated as it was smashed around by the piston? I would imagine the piston having enough force to break the piece even further given how small it was. Infact, would it be possible it go small enough to bypass the Muffler and go straight into the old dryer you removed?
I guess it's possible, I doubt it made it out of the muffler though...but I've seen weirder things.....
@@HVACRVIDEOS again friend, you replacing a human heart? time and pressure?
If it did make it through the muffler then its either stuck in the condensor or the receiver, no way it made it out of the receiver to the dryer.
This is what happens when you don't maintain your walk in cooler, the compressor would be destroyed because of failure to perform regular maintenance.
I am allso do hvacr
I had a KE2 with a bad pressure transducer causing it to open the expansion valve and flood on a Saturday evening, it was the same system style duel evaporator system as the system you where working on (also a beer walk in). I didn't have the part on hand so I just pulled the fuse out of the KE2 and ran the system as a single evaporator until monday when united refrigeration opened, they are a well trained customer so they don't leave doors open and I knew it would be fine.
Look like the "smart" control is not so smart.
How can a superheat temp could be higher than the room temp ? Would this be possible even as a transient state ?
Great video!! I wouldn’t necessarily call it a rack system. Looked like several single compressor systems housed together on the roof. But great video overall
beautiful job no constructive criticism.
In a perfect world refrigeration systems would never break down and you would not have a job.
Did you replace that rattling pipe mount?
Incredible knowledge! Awesome work!!
This could be misleading in sooo many ways!!
Dang, you know an experts and expert when smelling their finger is a quick and indepth diagnosis step in his toolchain. That was pretty cool.
Think one of your internal overloads has burnt contact. loses internal contact makes single phase condition. After contact cools. Makes connection again.
no shame in your brazing game...
what rosebud tip are you using??