LATE NIGHT WALK IN FREEZER CALL
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Gotta love the late night calls, when I realized what was happening with the compressor I was thinking the worst.
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Hey, a note on capacitor tests. Normally, when caps are higher than their ratings, they are not "over achievers", they are leaky. This means there is dc leakage across the capacitor. Most cap testers test the ac time constant of the caps to get a value. This is thrown off higher if the capacitor has dc leakage. This requires a special tester to test, esr and normal capacitor meters will not test this. So if it is high, just replace it, nothing ever goes up in caps. They always degrade.
Thanks for the info! I learned something too.
Mr. Carlson's Lab explains this in detail, as well as how to make a DIY cap tester.
Leakage can be checked in OHMS mode after waiting for the cap to fully charge to the meter’s ohms test voltage.
@w5cdt maybe, but there is a problem with that testing method, as the meters testing voltage is only a couple of volts. So naturally, the leakage at that voltage compared to the operating voltage of several hundred volts will be very different. If you are seeing leakage at a couple of volts it is definatley bad. But it is not really a good way to test as there are not really datasheet leakage numbers for that voltage range. Not to mention, with large caps, it will just charge and never get a steady reading. An lcr meter or a high voltage capacitor leakage tester is really needed. You could run your own high voltage and use your meter to measure current. Though, that is a cumbersome setup and not really worth the trouble. I have a cheap lcr meter, and it will tell me all sorts of stuff like impedance, esr, q, capacitance and also accurately measures low resistances for motor windings.
@w5cdt also are you a ham? That looks like a call sign
Dude I watch your videos as a jr food service technician, and I am amazed by the deep troubleshooting you do on a regular basis
An important note on measuring capacitance: Your tool is measuring how long it takes for the capacitor to charge to a specific voltage using a specific current and calculates the capacity from that.
Therefore, if the capacitor's internal isolation is bad (and leaks current through) or it develops internal resistance (making the resistor charge slower), the meter will read high.
As a starting technician, your videos make me more comfortable and familiar with some situations. Much Thanks from Türkiye 🇹🇷
Had a blown fuse situation, where I fell back on your ‚mantra‘. I later found out, that the compressor I was troubleshooting had - as build by the manufacturer - additional fuses on L1 and L3. And there I was - freezing my behind off - wrecking my head why the only disconnect switch that had blown was L2.
Oh the compressor was mechanically locked up, btw.
A cheese omelet, a cold brew coffee and a walk-in freezer down! Good morning!
Greets from Germany
No one is perfect. I watch a lot of videos from different techs. I'm new to the trade and always take some from everyone. I appreciate all of you taking time out to explain the procedures you guys go through. One thing I don't like are call backs
Caps tend to read high if they are getting leaky, the extra resistance adds to the apparent capacitance.
I love your videos but at 0:41 when you said this is my rack i had a good chuckle. Keep up the good work!
First test on any electrical fault should be insulation test before you move anything..... but I always dive in and disconnect things then realise my error... a tip for you is to lock your meter on test and go wiggle and jiggle stuff.. on more complex electronic systems its amazing what weird faults are caused by insulation leaks..and I have to say my ocd gets triggered when you say a fuse went bad, it's not gone bad, it did its job perfectly if anything it went well and is just unusable after doing its job, perhaps the fuse has opened or triggered the fuse may be usable phrases....... End of ocd ramblings...... Keep the vids coming I love to watch....
Love these videos. Best hvacr content on TH-cam
Don’t apologize you do an outstanding job and we all make mistakes we’re human, but to stress again you are a very good technician man kudos!
Bro u did a great job.. and you explained everything to...
Glad I wasn't crazy about using VFD's or inverter compressors. Thank you for answering my question!
Addison hvac units have vfd for scroll compressors they are out of Florida
Good job Chris. Love the videos. Really teaching me a lot. Experienced hot side tech getting back into hvac/r after a 30 yr absence.
You are a very thorough technician and you pay close attention to detail, you don’t just fix what’s broken in front of you, you take the extra time to prevent the next failure! that plays a huge roll in any troubleshooting process I like that!
Another great video Chris. Thank you for the knowledge.
Oversized compressors will have stronger suction because of the larger compressor displacement. Your compressor is practically suctioning more than what the TXV can feed it.
Back pressure should rise though once the ambient gets warmer.
Hi Chris, the meter charges the capacitor with a low voltage and continuously integrates the current flow until it drops to 0-ish. Based on the accumulated current it does some math and approximates how many farads a good cap would have.
If the capacitor has failed with low internal resistance, it draws more current. This is why bad caps show higher than normal capacitance.
More sophisticated measuring tools exist of course, but it's not common to see in a handheld multi meter.
This is it, but to rephrase it, the caps can fail in multiple ways. One is the loss of capacitance, another is becoming leaky. The meter approximates capacitance by measuring how long it takes for the cap to fully charge. If the cap is leaky, it takes a bit longer to fully charge because it's leaking as it's being charged. This results in a false higher capacitance reading.
Right on thanks for the info!!
Never knew that. Thank you for the education.
Therefore, only sure way of testing capacitor is by measuring its current and voltage.
Same here with the Wago’s. I wish the lever would snap in when you would close them. Other than that I love Wago’s.
Amazing instructor
Keep up the great work, I enjoy watching. Explaining everything, its really helpful.
Quite interesting how you explains every problem..
That compressor sounds surprisingly good, given how bad the head looks.
Awesome video! Thanks for taking the time to walk us through these problems and how you walk from symptom to big picture problem
Ramble on brother..... always learning while watching... good stuff
29:10 the way he yeets that capacitor 😂
Always enjoy the videos, even though I'm not a HVAC guy. I do especially appreciate your choice in smartwatch case/band. Used Supcase for years!
That rack looks like it lived its life in the ocean!
I've been watching your videos for a long time and barely subscribed to your channel didn't realize I wasn't subscribed but I've learned so much from you and I don't even work on these but them going love them
Thanks bud glad you enjoy the videos
As for why the capacitor is up in value, it can be that the paper insulator inside was slightly thinner than normal. The capacitance is determined by both the surface area and the distance between the two plates. If the paper is thinner then it get closer, which make the capacitance goes up. The downside is that the voltage insulation goes down. But as long as the insulation is high enough and the capacitace is within specs then they declare it good.
Thanks for another great video. Great job, always appreciate your take on troubleshooting.
Another great video!!! Always looking forward to the next!
Thank you for the videos really helpful
29:00 The high capacitance might be that the capacitor is electrically leaky (acting like a resistor instead of a capacitor). The meter measures the capacitance by timing how long it takes to charge with a given voltage. If the capacitor lets some current flow, the meter will measure that as higher capacitance although it's not actually the case.
Perhaps that capacitor measuring higher than normal is a sign that it's ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) is too high and the cap is about to fail. I do know that in audio components (receivers/tuners/amplifiers) that electrolytic caps that measure higher than normal is a good sign that they are out of spec and they are becoming more of a resistor (ESR) than a cap.
I learn so much from your videos. You do such a great job and your troubleshooting skills with the explanation of both how and why are awesome. I appreciate your hard work putting these videos together... It takes a lot of hard work... Chris did state that a 10 µF testing at testing 10.57 µF was odd and did indeed replace the capacitor. As the specification for a MARS 12008 is ± 6% as shown, it was iffy in my . I personally think there will be manufacturing variation, but as it was close to testing out of spec., and to prevent a callback, replacement of a ~$6 capacitor is prudent. Regarding Mr. Carlson's lab DIY capacitor tester, yes, he does amazing work. Have an awesome day!
High inrush currents are no problem for the motor (you can overload them 5..10 times their normal rating for a short period of time and it will not damage them), only for connectors, connections and especially for contactors.
The trouble with Wagos in an application like that is, apart from the lever issue, if they're not fixed in place along with the wires, they can vibrate loose.
The lever issue is pretty easily resolved by using the push-in types (2273), so long as your wire is sufficiently stiff or you fit ferrules. They're still removable, you just twist while pulling. Even with vibration concerns, there's less chance of error fitting them than a wirenut, especially working in awkward spaces like that.
just a note from my experiences over the years when I see amp draws higher than another from the exact same motor, other than capacitors.... check the blade. many times someone has replaced it with a different blade, 4 wing to a 3 wing, or 17 degreee to a 23 degree pitch, then also the blade insertion depth. These are variables. as long as the amperage is under the nameplate rating you should be OK. The other thing to check is handshaking of the motor shaft of both in question. This can be done with the blade on too. Just my two cents.
I always got up when the call came. I was never paid to be on call all those years and was certainly no paid well enough to stop doing my wife and go into work. I got the shankleg. I hope you paid proper. No one wants to do this stuff anymore because you don't get paid what you should even though your boss gets paid just fine.
Underpaid, over worked for sure. Theives
@@HoundDiggityDog13many who worked the business got robbed by shady bosses. Use to be a man could support his family on the wages of a tech. No longer though. In Lansing Michigan maybe 17.00 to start and sure ain't gonna a nickle overtime unless already over 40 hrs no matter the time of night you go out. Some companies like the one I left even want to shank you drive time in the morning to first Job. They sure don't hourly to be on 24/7 call. We all know the deal.
Sunday mornings with Chris
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
A lot of capacitance meters don't expect leakage or excessive ESR. Both can make a capacitor read high. The capacitance isn't high, and it's defective in some other way.
Good job Chris...Great video Thank you
Depending on how your capacitance meter works, there is a possibility that a cap reading high may be leaky, that is, have a resistance between the terminals as well as a capacitance. You can switch over to Ohms and clip onto the cap and see if it goes open circuit or not. You will probably have to let it sit a couple of minutes to get a good reading.
Jeez those motors are just sitting on the condensers, major vibration leak point
Greate video,
I work at a site that has 17 daikin variable compressor units.
They do work nice, but to much sensors 😂
I had a unit that was popping the 50A main breaker. 50 + year old Federal. Replaced it, everything seemed fine. Popped the new one, after some time. (I was gone) Turns out it was the condenser fan motor getting hot, seizing after some time. Then the compressor would overheat & pop the breaker.
Great job Chris
I use a laser light because after 40 years of this work I don't have much feeling left in my hands.
Excellent 👍🏻
Thanks ‼️
May also see scrolls with internal unloaders too possibly
24:35 Man that fan motor is really digging into the coil there! Seems like it needs to be adjusted a bit higher! 🤦♂🤷♂
That capacitor could be leaky (electrically), which would cause your meter to read a higher capacitance. Fairly rare to see a capacitor be that high over rating after being in service for a long while.
The reason being leaky causes this is that your meter is timing how long it takes to charge it up, and deriving capacitance that way. If your capacitor is leaky, it will take longer to charge - thus higher capacitance read by the meter (but it actually isn't higher).
good content
Great video
Hey Chris, to fallow up on your tangent as you say, I am old school and retired in 2013, but what ever happened to two Stage scroll compressors with a loader un-loarder, why haven't I heard more about these ? I know bigger chillers and 100 and 200 ton systems have something silular. Was just wondering why manufacturers for smaller commercial and residential A/C systems have not inbraced this? PS: Good video brother. :)
When capacitors are higher than expected is due the ESR value screwed up. Replace them for safety, but usually are more a problem in low signal application
Good work..! Can u make separate video about Liquid injection Valve and Head pressure valve diagnostic..? Thanks.
I like ur videos bro 😀😀
When capacitors age they may get electrically leaky. This will cause the typical capacitance meter to read high. When capacitors get leaky, they usually have higher ESR (Equivilent Serias Resistance) which will make your motor require more current.
The leaks at 31:09 in the video was crazy!
While clearly not the problem in this case, if a fuse is a time-delay type, older fuses can get what I call "Fuse Fatigue". I've seen it on single phase residential A-C compressors. In time-delay fuses the fuseable link is packed in special sand within the fuse that keeps it in place and prevents the fuseable link metal from falling into molten blobs. After many hard starts (high inrush amp draw) the fuseable link will have partly melted then re solidified over and over. Eventually the fuseable link is so compromised by the repeated partial melting cycles that it lets go. Cut an inexplicably failed one open and do a necropsy on it.
You can also suffer from fatigue with open wire fuses. High temperatures during inrush and prolonged load with exposure to oxygen and moisture causes corrosion until they finally let go on a rough inrush like motors - vacuums are a good trigger. Not a common problem these days.
Higher current fuses rarely blow for no reason, but low ma rated fuses often do. With open and glass fuses, you can tell if they just got tired or blew because of overload.
Nice mountains
The Capacitor going up in value is totally possible. I have been watching Vintage Tube Radio videos from Mr. Carlson's lab I have heard him in multiple videos saying that Old Capacitors (Ex. Made in the 1950's) to a capacitance tester (which your multimeter just measures capacitance) can look like an overachiever with higher than tolerance capacity. Though when placed on a capacitor Leakage tester (Very dangerous as it can deliver thousands of Volts) it is shown to be Electrically Leaky. Therefore capacitors when they go bad can turn into a Resistor and look like they have a higher capacitance to your multimeter when in fact they are BAD!!!! I know that Mr. Carlson's lab has built himself a low voltage capacitor leakage protector but unsure of what it's limits are for testing as it was built for Audio capacitor testing but because HVAC doesn't require nearly the same tolerances as what audio requires, then it may work but it is a build it yourself device that is available through his patreon so that is not a go to solution but he does put out some good videos explaining Capacitor Electrical leakage.
This is how you make money. You have to work and you'll have to leave at times you don't want.
Can't agree more you need to tape down those levers. They can absolutely open up.
No one can afford to pay the well-trained competent 24/hr a day on call Tech what they are really worth.
Have you tried the new inline Wago connectors? I use them to connect to my meter leads when I do a voltage reading.
No I haven't tried them yet
We’ve been taking all the walk in systems off our old racks when they go kaput. How have y’all been handling leaks in evaporators and condensers with units on the rack ?
I will discuss this on my Livestream this evening 3/6/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out
th-cam.com/users/liveoD5k3jZQfb0
Wrong type of fuse for the condenser fan motor. The ccmr (green) is what it needs like the other fuses. The yellow ones get weaker and weaker every time the motor kicks on and eventually blow.
If the compressor has a lot of liquid refrigerant condensed in it that can cause a low megger ohm reading, keep meaning to make a vid and see what exact effects it has.
Hvac ❤️❤️
I prefer using plumber’s tape to secure my caps.
I will discuss this on my Livestream this evening 3/6/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out
th-cam.com/users/liveoD5k3jZQfb0
👍💪❄️🇺🇸 nice work thanks
Coming here from IT field, after this kind of failure we would be talking about setting up some monitoring (with automated notifications) so we get an early warning (like idk, for constantly increased compressor temperature or something). Is that possible for AC? Or you just rely on customer notifying you and preventive maintenance?
Weather proof box
Does anyone knew where to find, or who is making, ratcheting wrenches for king/rotalock valves stem nut??? I have been working with them in one company which I work for earlier in my life, but I am not able to source them now!
29:10 those multimeters are pretty bad at measuring capacitors when it comes to accuracy.
As a life long field service technician, PLEASE stop talking. you are doing a great job.
BX Wire hsd s specific copnnector, romex connectors arent approved
doesnt that 10-20% written on capacitors mean that the capacitance is somewhere between that range from the advertised capacitance when its manufactured?
earlier on when i had just started working with single phase motors i thought that was the range which is acceptable for the capacitor to operate but when i did some more digging i remember finding out that had nothing to do with it and it was just the same thing as the + - 5grams on products weight.
In electronics the tolerance on a capacitor is both the allowed tolerance when manufactured *and* the allowed value tolerance during service life.
Any 10% value tolerance capacitor reading more than 10% under the rated value when out of circuit, is a bad/dead capacitor that is no longer fit for purpose.
@@RachelMant so its actually both good to know
Lol "rack". It's a doghouse. All the circuits are separate.
I will discuss this on my livestream on TH-cam this evening 4/24/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) come on over and check it out th-cam.com/users/liveg7_emG3FE1E
I would guess that paint won't go off the head just during one day. As far I can tell it also got quite rusty. So whole theory of it being bad just for one day is probably a miss
Great video. What make is your insulation resistant tester?
This one was a Klein Insulation tester, I actually just gave it to my apprentice . I Keep a Fancy fluke one on my truck
@@HVACRVIDEOS very Generous and thoughtful of you.
What brand of gloves are those?
Home Depot’s Gorilla Grip gloves
Yep
If I have 200 ft of piping, would I still charge the receiver 3/4?
with long lineset runs the reciever needs to be sized usually bigger so it can still hold the entire charge, so you need to find out if it has enough storage capacity
@@HVACRVIDEOS perfect, it is also water cooled!
I will discuss this on my Livestream this evening 3/6/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out
th-cam.com/users/liveoD5k3jZQfb0
@@HVACRVIDEOS hell yeah!
Adding refregirant without finding and repairing the leak before ??
I will discuss this on my Livestream this evening 3/6/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out
th-cam.com/users/liveoD5k3jZQfb0
Sometimes you have to save product if location does not have backup storage
@@davejohnsonnola1536 The fluid regulations are less harsh in your area in this case...
American machine and wire, a complete mess, in Europe is the standard much safer and organised inside with label's and normal route.
What is the life expectancy on a system like this?
Squirrel brain in the middle there. Troubleshooting, oh pretty mountains, troubleshooting
I do that alot
Hvacr God!!
👍🏿
I have to agree that your body is a tool. My wife calls me one all the time, now I know why.
"Heat producing device"
Feels like you are always triaging these systems. Multiple problems and systems.
The wagos are kinda trash...there's is another brand that holds way stronger
🏔😍