The 57 is such a funny mic in my opinion, because while I do agree, when we hear a 57 in a lot of cases, and Guitar, and Snare especially, it just tends to sound right for the most part; but I think a huge reason is, because we're soooo familiar with it, and grew up hearing it all over, so I think our brains actually perceive it in some sort of way, for better or worse hah.
Haha I totally agree! Literally any time I try something else on snare, I think this is probably "better" than the 57...but the 57 just sounds how a snare is "supposed" to sound!
Cool modern case comparison of 2 classics. I guess it always depends on the source and what you're trying to achieve. In this instance the SM57 is the clear choice on snare but in a minimalist micing setup and a quieter part with darker drums, the Beta57 could be more articulate and the bleed useful. Same on guitars, the first riff was hands down better on the SM57 but in a dense, high gain mix maybe having the Beta on the rhythm parts would give some benefit from the mid / less shouty tone of the Beta57. At the end of the day, they're just 2 different tools.
WIsnt the Hi-hat bleed directly proportional to the freq response? Beta57 has much more top, so it has much more Hi-hat bleed. Snare sound better with beta57. Guitars in solo with 57 are ok, but it has this almost glued on top end sizzle, whereas beta57 is all round stronger, brighter and more present. In the mix the add-on top gets buried under hihat and snare too and actually sm57 sounds more focused. And this you can achieve with beta57 + some top shelf. So all in all beta57 comes out on top,. It has better signal to noise ratio as well so you have less issues with signal to noise ratio. 57 os great but beta57 is better because you can get rid of the extender lows and highs if you so choose
First listen through, I liked the Beta57a on the guitars...then I started overthinking, and now I can't decide. The switch from the 57 to the Beta just felt like a weight was lifted off of the guitars...but then going back I think maybe it took too much weight off...sheeeeeesh
Well the good news is, I don't think you can really go too wrong with either! But I always say go with your initial gut reaction on things like that. It's usually right!
I think the Beta 57A is more capable of picking up nuances and gives a more balanced frequency range. It is due to growing lazyness of the mixer(s) that the SM57 is used more because it's already giving the range that a lot of people would otherwise probably mix it too. A good mic is open sounding and rich in frequency pick-up so that you mix it anywhich way you like. A lot of mic's these days are coloured and heavily filtered to a lot of 'standard/most wanted soundscapes'. I know the SM57 classic is not filtered, it is just a mic with some holes in the frequency pick-up that is liked by a big group. If you compare it to other mics (the Sennheiser 906 for example, but also the Beta 57 A shows clearly what is lacking with the SM57) you hear what is missing, and with the 906 you hear which frequencies you probably want to reduce if you compare it to the SM57. With this 'filter' development he manufacturer decides more and more how you sound opposed to that the mixer decides, a very bad development if you ask me.
I very much disagree that choosing a mic that gives you the sound you're looking for is lazy. In fact, if you're not mixing the track, just recording it, than I would say it's the opposite, and recording everything as neutral and flat as possible is the lazy route, passing off any decision making to the mixer. I believe that while recording, you should do everything you can to make it sound like the final product so that 1) the mixer understands the vision you and the artist were going for and only have to polish things as opposed to completely creating the sound from scratch, and 2) the artist (and the engineer) are hearing somewhat close to the finished product as they're tracking so that they can make better decisions on what's needed and what's not instead of saying "well, once the mixer fixes all our sounds, I THINK there will be room for this extra guitar part." Not to mention the inspiration factor for the artist. Nothing worse than telling them "oh trust me, this sounds like shit now, but once it's mixed, it'll maybe sound awesome." Like just get it right in the first place. And if an sm57 on a guitar cab gets me exactly what I want to hear (I often times don't end up EQing guitars besides high and low pass filtering), why would I use a mic that get's me farther from the sound I want, forcing me to work to try to make it sound like a 57? It just seems like adding extra work and extra steps for the sake of extra work and extra steps. I mean, by that logic, we should record everything with measurement mics as they give us the flattest response and then make the poor mixer down the line deal with it. When you say "A lot of mic's these days are coloured and heavily filtered" and "It is due to growing lazyness of the mixer" it makes it sound like you think people used to record with super flat mics and EQ everything to get the sound they want (I could be misinterpreting that, so sorry if I am!) but the mics available back in the day are incredibly colored! Think of all the old RCA ribbon mics or the Neumann U47 or the majority of vintage dynamic mics, they all have wild boosts and dips in their frequency response. And I would say it was more common to try to get the sound right with just the mic and mic placement back in the day, and that the "the mixer will deal with it" mentality is actually a much newer thing. And again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the beta 57 or the 906 or any other mic, but like it for the sound, not because it gives you a flatter response that you than try to warp into the sound of a different mic.
@@BetterMixes thanks for you extensive answer (not cynical). I do believe that I made myself not very clear with my earlier writing. What I come across now these days is that mic's are so heavily filtered that, for example a Sennheiser 602 kickdrum mic is (almost only) capable of giving a rock and metal sound but lacks so many other fequencies. Designed on purpose by using a filter, not by having a non-neutral frequency response by design. You have to buy something else if you want to use the mic for a Jazz drum kit recording, or for other low frequency instrumentes which is not the case with a more open mic (not per se flat but non-scooped.) To that level, to me it seems like a marketing tric/thing: manufacture em in a way that it gives maximum ease & comfort but the real price we pay is that the versatility is comprimised big time and therefore we have to buy another (more) mic to do the Jazz drum recording. I realize it seems a little black and white what I am writing here. I do totally agree with you that what you can get right by using the best of; equipment - space - positioning and type of mic, is the best you can do. Make the natural sound as good as possible, so less (or non) eq-ing is needed. That goal you get by using a filtered mic, but the marketing thing is there plus also the learning process/knowledge of young sound engineers is compromised by these 'lazy mics' and also with all these presets that you find nowadays. Within time they loose the connection with what frequencies come from a guitar or a bass..
I like 57 the most, but in some vocals I use the beta. It depends on the situation. However, I've been surprised by the 57 against more expensive condensers, so if I have to pick just one mic, I'd go for the 57
Yup, like you said, it definitely depends on the situation! No one mic is ALWAYS going to be best, but if you can only have one, ya can't go wrong with the 57!
I THINK I mentioned it in the video (but maybe I forgot 🤷♂️), but I tried a few different positions, starting with it further towards the tom, but it was still worse. And even in the position I ended up using in the video, the back of the mic is pointed pretty far below the hi hat, so the direct line from the hats should be fairly close to the null (definitely closer to the null of the beta than that of the sm57).
For any kind of lead guitar work I prefer the beta 57. The mids are a bit more blunt overall and bring the guitar to the forefront of the mix with a vocal quality that always cuts through. I agree that the standard 57 sounds "better," and for rhythm guitars that sit in the mix it is perfect, but as a lead player I prefer the beta on my cab at shows.
I've used a Beta 57A, SM57, and Beyer M201 on everything. I think that classic 57 presence peak makes it very easy to set up (that signature "snap" on snare, "sizzle" on guitar amps), whereas the 57A or M201 need to be positioned with more regard for their proximity effect. On the Fender Deluxe, the 57A was flatter and gives you more to work with starting out, so I preferred it there. On the Mesa, I can hear a lower resonant peak in the 57A around 2khz or so, which is really irritating to deal with when mixing. All that said, I have had solid results throwing both mics on an amp at once.
when talking about guitar tones theyre different, so that is no way one will replace another, they will coexist to be 2 different choices when someone needs it
Totally! Yeah, there's never one "best" mic for every situation. While I preferred the 57 in all my examples in this video, I could totally find sounds and contexts where the beta would work better. My reasoning for this test was more to see which I'm more likely to prefer as a general starting point. Then, if it's not working, I know the sonic differences between these two (and a bunch of my other mics) so I have a better idea of what to try next.
So interesting! I definitely liked the SM57 better on snare. For the clean guitar, I didn’t have much preference. The pop/punk guitar was really cool though. On tge guitar only, I preferred the SN57. In tge mix, however, I liked both, but for different reasons. I could hear myself using either depending on the song.
The 57 is such a funny mic in my opinion, because while I do agree, when we hear a 57 in a lot of cases, and Guitar, and Snare especially, it just tends to sound right for the most part; but I think a huge reason is, because we're soooo familiar with it, and grew up hearing it all over, so I think our brains actually perceive it in some sort of way, for better or worse hah.
Haha I totally agree! Literally any time I try something else on snare, I think this is probably "better" than the 57...but the 57 just sounds how a snare is "supposed" to sound!
Cool modern case comparison of 2 classics. I guess it always depends on the source and what you're trying to achieve. In this instance the SM57 is the clear choice on snare but in a minimalist micing setup and a quieter part with darker drums, the Beta57 could be more articulate and the bleed useful. Same on guitars, the first riff was hands down better on the SM57 but in a dense, high gain mix maybe having the Beta on the rhythm parts would give some benefit from the mid / less shouty tone of the Beta57. At the end of the day, they're just 2 different tools.
Absolutely! As with almost everything in audio, it's all about context, and there is no "right" mic for every situation!
WIsnt the Hi-hat bleed directly proportional to the freq response? Beta57 has much more top, so it has much more Hi-hat bleed. Snare sound better with beta57. Guitars in solo with 57 are ok, but it has this almost glued on top end sizzle, whereas beta57 is all round stronger, brighter and more present. In the mix the add-on top gets buried under hihat and snare too and actually sm57 sounds more focused. And this you can achieve with beta57 + some top shelf. So all in all beta57 comes out on top,. It has better signal to noise ratio as well so you have less issues with signal to noise ratio.
57 os great but beta57 is better because you can get rid of the extender lows and highs if you so choose
First listen through, I liked the Beta57a on the guitars...then I started overthinking, and now I can't decide. The switch from the 57 to the Beta just felt like a weight was lifted off of the guitars...but then going back I think maybe it took too much weight off...sheeeeeesh
Well the good news is, I don't think you can really go too wrong with either! But I always say go with your initial gut reaction on things like that. It's usually right!
I think the Beta 57A is more capable of picking up nuances and gives a more balanced frequency range. It is due to growing lazyness of the mixer(s) that the SM57 is used more because it's already giving the range that a lot of people would otherwise probably mix it too. A good mic is open sounding and rich in frequency pick-up so that you mix it anywhich way you like. A lot of mic's these days are coloured and heavily filtered to a lot of 'standard/most wanted soundscapes'. I know the SM57 classic is not filtered, it is just a mic with some holes in the frequency pick-up that is liked by a big group. If you compare it to other mics (the Sennheiser 906 for example, but also the Beta 57 A shows clearly what is lacking with the SM57) you hear what is missing, and with the 906 you hear which frequencies you probably want to reduce if you compare it to the SM57. With this 'filter' development he manufacturer decides more and more how you sound opposed to that the mixer decides, a very bad development if you ask me.
I very much disagree that choosing a mic that gives you the sound you're looking for is lazy. In fact, if you're not mixing the track, just recording it, than I would say it's the opposite, and recording everything as neutral and flat as possible is the lazy route, passing off any decision making to the mixer. I believe that while recording, you should do everything you can to make it sound like the final product so that 1) the mixer understands the vision you and the artist were going for and only have to polish things as opposed to completely creating the sound from scratch, and 2) the artist (and the engineer) are hearing somewhat close to the finished product as they're tracking so that they can make better decisions on what's needed and what's not instead of saying "well, once the mixer fixes all our sounds, I THINK there will be room for this extra guitar part." Not to mention the inspiration factor for the artist. Nothing worse than telling them "oh trust me, this sounds like shit now, but once it's mixed, it'll maybe sound awesome." Like just get it right in the first place. And if an sm57 on a guitar cab gets me exactly what I want to hear (I often times don't end up EQing guitars besides high and low pass filtering), why would I use a mic that get's me farther from the sound I want, forcing me to work to try to make it sound like a 57? It just seems like adding extra work and extra steps for the sake of extra work and extra steps. I mean, by that logic, we should record everything with measurement mics as they give us the flattest response and then make the poor mixer down the line deal with it. When you say "A lot of mic's these days are coloured and heavily filtered" and "It is due to growing lazyness of the mixer" it makes it sound like you think people used to record with super flat mics and EQ everything to get the sound they want (I could be misinterpreting that, so sorry if I am!) but the mics available back in the day are incredibly colored! Think of all the old RCA ribbon mics or the Neumann U47 or the majority of vintage dynamic mics, they all have wild boosts and dips in their frequency response. And I would say it was more common to try to get the sound right with just the mic and mic placement back in the day, and that the "the mixer will deal with it" mentality is actually a much newer thing. And again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the beta 57 or the 906 or any other mic, but like it for the sound, not because it gives you a flatter response that you than try to warp into the sound of a different mic.
@@BetterMixes thanks for you extensive answer (not cynical). I do believe that I made myself not very clear with my earlier writing. What I come across now these days is that mic's are so heavily filtered that, for example a Sennheiser 602 kickdrum mic is (almost only) capable of giving a rock and metal sound but lacks so many other fequencies. Designed on purpose by using a filter, not by having a non-neutral frequency response by design. You have to buy something else if you want to use the mic for a Jazz drum kit recording, or for other low frequency instrumentes which is not the case with a more open mic (not per se flat but non-scooped.) To that level, to me it seems like a marketing tric/thing: manufacture em in a way that it gives maximum ease & comfort but the real price we pay is that the versatility is comprimised big time and therefore we have to buy another (more) mic to do the Jazz drum recording. I realize it seems a little black and white what I am writing here. I do totally agree with you that what you can get right by using the best of; equipment - space - positioning and type of mic, is the best you can do. Make the natural sound as good as possible, so less (or non) eq-ing is needed. That goal you get by using a filtered mic, but the marketing thing is there plus also the learning process/knowledge of young sound engineers is compromised by these 'lazy mics' and also with all these presets that you find nowadays. Within time they loose the connection with what frequencies come from a guitar or a bass..
I like 57 the most, but in some vocals I use the beta. It depends on the situation. However, I've been surprised by the 57 against more expensive condensers, so if I have to pick just one mic, I'd go for the 57
Yup, like you said, it definitely depends on the situation! No one mic is ALWAYS going to be best, but if you can only have one, ya can't go wrong with the 57!
Not really sure (shure?) why the hi-hat in the Beta signal was a surprise, the rear lobe is pointed straight at the bottom of the hat.
I THINK I mentioned it in the video (but maybe I forgot 🤷♂️), but I tried a few different positions, starting with it further towards the tom, but it was still worse. And even in the position I ended up using in the video, the back of the mic is pointed pretty far below the hi hat, so the direct line from the hats should be fairly close to the null (definitely closer to the null of the beta than that of the sm57).
For any kind of lead guitar work I prefer the beta 57. The mids are a bit more blunt overall and bring the guitar to the forefront of the mix with a vocal quality that always cuts through. I agree that the standard 57 sounds "better," and for rhythm guitars that sit in the mix it is perfect, but as a lead player I prefer the beta on my cab at shows.
That definitely makes sense! 57 on rhythms, beta on leads can also give some nice separation between the parts both live and in the studio!
I've used a Beta 57A, SM57, and Beyer M201 on everything. I think that classic 57 presence peak makes it very easy to set up (that signature "snap" on snare, "sizzle" on guitar amps), whereas the 57A or M201 need to be positioned with more regard for their proximity effect. On the Fender Deluxe, the 57A was flatter and gives you more to work with starting out, so I preferred it there. On the Mesa, I can hear a lower resonant peak in the 57A around 2khz or so, which is really irritating to deal with when mixing.
All that said, I have had solid results throwing both mics on an amp at once.
when talking about guitar tones theyre different, so that is no way one will replace another, they will coexist to be 2 different choices when someone needs it
Totally! Yeah, there's never one "best" mic for every situation. While I preferred the 57 in all my examples in this video, I could totally find sounds and contexts where the beta would work better. My reasoning for this test was more to see which I'm more likely to prefer as a general starting point. Then, if it's not working, I know the sonic differences between these two (and a bunch of my other mics) so I have a better idea of what to try next.
So interesting! I definitely liked the SM57 better on snare. For the clean guitar, I didn’t have much preference. The pop/punk guitar was really cool though. On tge guitar only, I preferred the SN57. In tge mix, however, I liked both, but for different reasons. I could hear myself using either depending on the song.
For sure! I could even see using both mics on different parts in a single song. Both are definitely useful options! I'm glad you liked the video!
57 wins
🤘🤘🤘