Don’t forget the main trick of putting up Perspex baffles and putting the room mics behind them so you can crush them without picking up too much of the cymbals. He mentions it in an interview
To be honest, adding a mic parallel to the snare shell, about 1 inch to the cap, helps to provide meat and body to a snare drum. On its own, it does not sound so interesting, but I like to cut a good amount of hi freq and blend it with the two other mics, and it make phat snares and tends to glue the overall snare sound into one.
Like a snare side mic? It's been a while since I've done one of those, it's probably about time to try again! Something similar I did on a session recently was use a contact mic stuck to the side of the snare. After a ton of compression, it gave this really cool midrange knock that instantly reminded me of an Eric Valentine kind of snare sound.
@@BetterMixes Absolutly, it'a about the knock, and the "pang" in the lower midrange. It "phats'up" the whole snare. I finally chose a 7B, between a Audix D4 and 441, if I remenber, and was the more natural choice. I first hard gate, then cut everything above 700-800 hz on this mic and add a fair amount of dbx 165a comp emulation, to get the "pam / knock / humpf" thing. Blend with the top and bot by ear. This is how I do it, on this particluar projet. In this case and for that project it works pretty well. 😜 If I do some videos one day, I could share about that in detail.
Nailed the snare! Often overlooked for getting this sound is that Zac didn't have any crash cymbals on his kit - he ran all 21+ rides and 15 hats. I remember rumors from back then that they were actually 16 hats, but I've never seen any evidence of that. Anyway I'm such a big fan of this sound and I'm glad to see others talking about it again :)
@@shellbournian Oh man, you've got to get one! I've got a bunch of snares, alluminum, steel, wood, vintage, modern, heck, even one that I hand built from a board, but the brass one gets used on like 98% of the big rock drum sessions I do. It just has 'that' sound.
So freaking good! Loved your importance and matching of the tunings, and the mixing was real close considering they used TONS of sample on the original.
Thanks Jacob! It took a LOT of work to get that snare right. I recorded the samples and the video examples 4 or 5 different times before I was happy with them 😆
Oh wow, that's cool! Neil Dorfsman told me to buy one if I ever saw one during a session we did together a few years back, and like a week later, one showed up on Craigslist...easily one of the best drum purchases I've made! It sounds so good!
The snare on the album is basically replaced with samples. There is a Staub sample in that snare that was floating around in the early days of the internet. It was a pretty mind-blowing production when it came out. These days it's almost a meme , and I kind of gigle when I hear that snare rippoff in today's productions ha! Good job non the less 👍
Oh nice! I don't think I had ever come across the actual samples they used (or if I did, I had long since forgotten!). Makes since that it was a Randy Staub sample. I can definitely hear that.
Love this, it's always cool to see drummers recreating drum tones, in my opinion it is wayyyy harder than recreating guitar tone and bass tone. And you get an great result!!
Dude. Great sounds and great playing but I’m more impressed with this video editing! Really enjoyed how you showed off mic sounds and A/B on the mix. No fluff. Didn’t have to click around scrub through nonsense. Excellent!
Good stuff! Glad to have found your channel. TH-cam can't have enough getting drum sounds videos. One particular underrated drum sound I've been aiming at-but missing- myself is Tim Alexander's. Specifically the kick sounds on Sailing the Seas of Cheese and Pork Soda.
Much appreciated! It's been a while since I've listened to Primus, but after just checking out a few songs again, yeah, those are some cool drum sounds!
That snare sounds pretty dang close! Well done and good video. The only thing is the overtone (which there is a ton in the OG track too) sounds like a metal snare and the original snare used was the VP1480 which is a maple shell. I wonder how the overtone's characteristics would change given the difference in material. Either way, it blends well into the rest of the mix and doesn't sound as pingy as the solo'd track. Really informative stuff!
Thanks! Yeah, I wish I could get my hands on the Vinnie Paul snare, but (probably because of this record) they're INSANELY expensive for what they are. I originally tried my 14x7 oak snare thinking that would be the closest thing I have, but the oak just didn't have that ring. I thought about seeing if I could borrow a deep maple snare for this video, but my brass snare was sounding pretty darn close, so I figured I'd give it a shot!
Really nice sound you have on those close mics. Any advice on how you achieved that level of punchy brightness without the cymbals exploding through every time you hit the the snare and toms? I've used the fabfilter saturn trick as well as silencer but never get results as clean as you did here.
A lot of it comes from the tracking phase. In the mixing portion of this example, I used a TINY bit of Oxford Drum Gate on the snare, just cutting like...4 or 5 dB in between hits (I was gating the toms a lot harder). Both Saturn and Silencer should be able to accomplish more or less the same thing. As far as tracking though, probably the biggest thing is how I was playing the drums. I was playing the shells really really hard with constant rimshots on the snare, but then only hitting the cymbals like...medium hard. It takes a little practice to get used to playing like that, but once you've got it down, it makes a MASSIVE difference! Then beyond that, just being really careful about mic placement, pointing the null of the snare mic at the hihat, same idea with the tom mics (also, those Lauten mics I have on toms help a lot with cymbal bleed). I hope that helps!
ts weird, the David Bendeth sample expansion pack for CLA drums uses an Ocheltree Snare for the "Paramore" sound of RIOT and its EXACTLY the same.... there's so many conflicting rumours on the production of that album but that snare sounds EXACTLY like it, and he'd know. Weird one.
Yeah, I don't know! It was on Gearspace that David and Dan Korneff said they used the Pearl Vinnie Paul snare for that song (as well as a Pork Pie brass and I think a DW for other songs on the album). In the actual track, they HEAVILY use a sample, so maybe the sample is of the Ocheltree snare and the live snare was the Vinnie Paul? Who knows!
Not in multiple velocities, multiple round robins, and separate close and room mic variants he didn't (and I don't remember there being toms either, but I could be wrong there). One shots can come in handy for sure, but they're not nearly as versatile. Try to sample replace a snare fill with those one shots and it sounds like every mid 2000s local metalcore band...yikes!
It'd be my opinion if I said mine were better, but they are objectively more versatile since you can separate the rooms from the close mics, have the option to use the multiple-velocity and round robin files (or to use a one shot if preferred), and mine have the toms. Plus, I'm almost positive those samples were not released by David, but were taken from the Rock Band (or maybe Guitar Hero?) game, which David Bendeth has specifically said are missing some of the mics (room mics maybe? I can't remember for sure).
Do you think it's worth buying a vocal booth? The inside is 1 meter wide and 1 meter long. Other models are expensive. Maybe you can somehow place the microphone in such a booth so that there is as little “boxiness” sound as possible.
It's hard to say without seeing the design of the specific booth, but as a general statement PROBABLY not. In most cases, you could get a handful of sound panels for less money which, placed strategically in a somewhat bigger room, would probably get you better results.
Amazing work, I'm AB'n with the track and there's a tiny bit too much reverb on the snare, it's dryer and more forward in the original but so close, great vid!
He really did. I remember the first time I looked up Jerry's credits and was like "oh..this is literally every record I listened to in middle and high school!" 😆
Yikes! That's a pretty terrible attitude. Maybe you should try opening up your mind a little. I've got friends who were winning Grammys before I was born, and we still learn new things from each other every time I see them. I've worked alongside some of the most legendary producers alive on some extremely successful records, so maybe don't discredit people so quickly just because they're young (and since when is 31 considered a little boy?)
Haha ok bro 👍 That must be one special compressor you've got if you can slap it on some drums and get this sound. It must change the drums tuning and the micing and add EQ and reverb...that's a pretty cool compressor.
@@BetterMixes man what are you talking about? track propper and use a distressor! this is nothing special but people (noobs like you) are try to sell everything as a big thing. evryone needs a catchy slogan for his stupid vids. i am 45 years old and i started in the 90´s don´t tell me something about audio....
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 ธันวาคม 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dNTiBBthKgQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out the drum samples here: www.bettermixes.com/drumsamples
Don’t forget the main trick of putting up Perspex baffles and putting the room mics behind them so you can crush them without picking up too much of the cymbals. He mentions it in an interview
Oh nice! I hadn't come across that particular interview, but makes sense!
@@BetterMixes it was in a Pensados place interview a few years ago. Such a great trick
To be honest, adding a mic parallel to the snare shell, about 1 inch to the cap, helps to provide meat and body to a snare drum. On its own, it does not sound so interesting, but I like to cut a good amount of hi freq and blend it with the two other mics, and it make phat snares and tends to glue the overall snare sound into one.
Like a snare side mic? It's been a while since I've done one of those, it's probably about time to try again! Something similar I did on a session recently was use a contact mic stuck to the side of the snare. After a ton of compression, it gave this really cool midrange knock that instantly reminded me of an Eric Valentine kind of snare sound.
@@BetterMixes Absolutly, it'a about the knock, and the "pang" in the lower midrange. It "phats'up" the whole snare. I finally chose a 7B, between a Audix D4 and 441, if I remenber, and was the more natural choice. I first hard gate, then cut everything above 700-800 hz on this mic and add a fair amount of dbx 165a comp emulation, to get the "pam / knock / humpf" thing. Blend with the top and bot by ear. This is how I do it, on this particluar projet. In this case and for that project it works pretty well. 😜 If I do some videos one day, I could share about that in detail.
@SandPineAudio I look forward to watching that video if and when you make it!
Nailed the snare! Often overlooked for getting this sound is that Zac didn't have any crash cymbals on his kit - he ran all 21+ rides and 15 hats. I remember rumors from back then that they were actually 16 hats, but I've never seen any evidence of that. Anyway I'm such a big fan of this sound and I'm glad to see others talking about it again :)
Oh wow, that's nuts! I've always liked bigger cymbals, so I can definitely get behind that! I've got to get me some 15 inch hats...
@@BetterMixes Nice! You got me looking at brass snares by the way... I've been putting off buying one for ages, but maybe its time lol
@@shellbournian Oh man, you've got to get one! I've got a bunch of snares, alluminum, steel, wood, vintage, modern, heck, even one that I hand built from a board, but the brass one gets used on like 98% of the big rock drum sessions I do. It just has 'that' sound.
FYI...there are a couple of convolution reverbs taken from the SPX series. I have Altiverb and I use several, including a set taken from the SPX 90.
Oh nice! I hadn't even thought about IRs. Good call!
So freaking good! Loved your importance and matching of the tunings, and the mixing was real close considering they used TONS of sample on the original.
Thanks dude! Yeah, I feel like people gloss over the tuning aspect too much when talking about this kind of thing when like...that's half the sound!
Fantastic video! I’m super impressed with how similar your sound was without any samples
Thanks Jacob! It took a LOT of work to get that snare right. I recorded the samples and the video examples 4 or 5 different times before I was happy with them 😆
Fun fact, August Burns Red's Constellations snare was the Steve Ferrone snare as well. It's a great and versatile drum!
Great video, too!
Oh wow, that's cool! Neil Dorfsman told me to buy one if I ever saw one during a session we did together a few years back, and like a week later, one showed up on Craigslist...easily one of the best drum purchases I've made! It sounds so good!
The snare on the album is basically replaced with samples. There is a Staub sample in that snare that was floating around in the early days of the internet. It was a pretty mind-blowing production when it came out. These days it's almost a meme , and I kind of gigle when I hear that snare rippoff in today's productions ha! Good job non the less 👍
Oh nice! I don't think I had ever come across the actual samples they used (or if I did, I had long since forgotten!). Makes since that it was a Randy Staub sample. I can definitely hear that.
absolutely nailed the snare
Thanks Mario! 🤘
May not be exact, but that's a great drum sound, good job!
Thanks! I appreciate that.
Love this, it's always cool to see drummers recreating drum tones, in my opinion it is wayyyy harder than recreating guitar tone and bass tone. And you get an great result!!
Glad you liked it! And yeah, totally agree. This was pretty tough to get it this close!
Dude. Great sounds and great playing but I’m more impressed with this video editing! Really enjoyed how you showed off mic sounds and A/B on the mix. No fluff. Didn’t have to click around scrub through nonsense. Excellent!
Thanks a ton! I worked really hard on this one, so I'm glad that came through!
Good stuff! Glad to have found your channel. TH-cam can't have enough getting drum sounds videos. One particular underrated drum sound I've been aiming at-but missing- myself is Tim Alexander's. Specifically the kick sounds on Sailing the Seas of Cheese and Pork Soda.
Much appreciated! It's been a while since I've listened to Primus, but after just checking out a few songs again, yeah, those are some cool drum sounds!
That snare sounds pretty dang close! Well done and good video. The only thing is the overtone (which there is a ton in the OG track too) sounds like a metal snare and the original snare used was the VP1480 which is a maple shell. I wonder how the overtone's characteristics would change given the difference in material. Either way, it blends well into the rest of the mix and doesn't sound as pingy as the solo'd track. Really informative stuff!
Thanks! Yeah, I wish I could get my hands on the Vinnie Paul snare, but (probably because of this record) they're INSANELY expensive for what they are. I originally tried my 14x7 oak snare thinking that would be the closest thing I have, but the oak just didn't have that ring. I thought about seeing if I could borrow a deep maple snare for this video, but my brass snare was sounding pretty darn close, so I figured I'd give it a shot!
Sounds phenomenal!
Thanks so much! Glad you think so!
This is brilliant and very informative. I can feel you've put a lot work and research to it
Thank you so much! I definitely did put a lot of work into this, so I'm glad it came across!
This sounds amazing! Shout out to Cooper btw. Do you plan to make this a series? I would love to see more of these like classic emo/pop punky anthems!
Thanks so much! And another one should be coming in a week or two!
Sick job man! Sounds rad 🤘🔥
Thanks so much! I'm glad you like it!
Love it! The snare sounds great
Thanks a lot for the update.
I was thinking about the drum sound from Muse or Normandie
I'm glad you like it! And great suggestions! They've got some killer drum sounds.
Sound massive! Bravo!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you dig it!
Great job man!
Thank you!!!
Wow man! Incredible job.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you like it!
Really nice sound you have on those close mics. Any advice on how you achieved that level of punchy brightness without the cymbals exploding through every time you hit the the snare and toms? I've used the fabfilter saturn trick as well as silencer but never get results as clean as you did here.
A lot of it comes from the tracking phase. In the mixing portion of this example, I used a TINY bit of Oxford Drum Gate on the snare, just cutting like...4 or 5 dB in between hits (I was gating the toms a lot harder). Both Saturn and Silencer should be able to accomplish more or less the same thing.
As far as tracking though, probably the biggest thing is how I was playing the drums. I was playing the shells really really hard with constant rimshots on the snare, but then only hitting the cymbals like...medium hard. It takes a little practice to get used to playing like that, but once you've got it down, it makes a MASSIVE difference! Then beyond that, just being really careful about mic placement, pointing the null of the snare mic at the hihat, same idea with the tom mics (also, those Lauten mics I have on toms help a lot with cymbal bleed).
I hope that helps!
exceptional good explanation, thx man!
No problem! I'm glad you liked it!
Very cool. Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
ts weird, the David Bendeth sample expansion pack for CLA drums uses an Ocheltree Snare for the "Paramore" sound of RIOT and its EXACTLY the same.... there's so many conflicting rumours on the production of that album but that snare sounds EXACTLY like it, and he'd know. Weird one.
Yeah, I don't know! It was on Gearspace that David and Dan Korneff said they used the Pearl Vinnie Paul snare for that song (as well as a Pork Pie brass and I think a DW for other songs on the album). In the actual track, they HEAVILY use a sample, so maybe the sample is of the Ocheltree snare and the live snare was the Vinnie Paul? Who knows!
Well done! Thanx!
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!
Awesome job!!
Thanks! And thanks for watching!
album is sample HEAVY. thanks.
nice job dude.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
David released the samples to both the snare and kick for this album years ago
Not in multiple velocities, multiple round robins, and separate close and room mic variants he didn't (and I don't remember there being toms either, but I could be wrong there). One shots can come in handy for sure, but they're not nearly as versatile. Try to sample replace a snare fill with those one shots and it sounds like every mid 2000s local metalcore band...yikes!
@@BetterMixesthat’s just your opinion buddy
Anyway yea it is true they were released.
It'd be my opinion if I said mine were better, but they are objectively more versatile since you can separate the rooms from the close mics, have the option to use the multiple-velocity and round robin files (or to use a one shot if preferred), and mine have the toms.
Plus, I'm almost positive those samples were not released by David, but were taken from the Rock Band (or maybe Guitar Hero?) game, which David Bendeth has specifically said are missing some of the mics (room mics maybe? I can't remember for sure).
🔥🔥🔥
🤘🤘🤘
What preamps or interface was used?
Mostly an Audient ASP800. Then I think I had the rooms going into a Focusrite.
Is the kit not on the site anymore? All I see is the Bonsai and essentials
Hey! It's included in the essential pack and the complete collection (along with a bunch of other samples).
@@BetterMixes ok awesome! That snare is killer
Thanks so much! Yeah, I was pretty stoked with how the snare turned out!
Seems like you are just hitting snare head. No rimshot. Is that right?
Nope, all rimshots here.
Do you think it's worth buying a vocal booth? The inside is 1 meter wide and 1 meter long. Other models are expensive. Maybe you can somehow place the microphone in such a booth so that there is as little “boxiness” sound as possible.
It's hard to say without seeing the design of the specific booth, but as a general statement PROBABLY not. In most cases, you could get a handful of sound panels for less money which, placed strategically in a somewhat bigger room, would probably get you better results.
Amazing work, I'm AB'n with the track and there's a tiny bit too much reverb on the snare, it's dryer and more forward in the original but so close, great vid!
Thanks! I appreciate it! But yeah, I might have went a little heavy with the verb.
Dude lol... Took the chance to test your samples, and the folder is empty, disappointing!
Yikes! Thanks the heads up, I have no idea what happened to them. I just re-uploaded them, so give it another shot!
@@BetterMixes No issues dude, just wanted you give it a heads up 🙂
I appreciate it!
That was amazing dude, congrats!!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you liked it!
Totally killed it👊🏻
Thanks dude! I appreciate it!
Can you do enema of the state or take off your pants and jacket
That would be a great one! Those are two of the main records that really got me into music, so they'd be fun to do!
@@BetterMixes yeh Jerry Finn really set the bar with the drums on those albums. And on the Box car racer album too.
He really did. I remember the first time I looked up Jerry's credits and was like "oh..this is literally every record I listened to in middle and high school!" 😆
That snare sound is awesome
Thanks! I'm glad you think so!
Who???
🙃
I ask myself, what can I learn with 25 years of audio engineering (pro) from this little boy? sorry nothing!
Yikes! That's a pretty terrible attitude. Maybe you should try opening up your mind a little. I've got friends who were winning Grammys before I was born, and we still learn new things from each other every time I see them. I've worked alongside some of the most legendary producers alive on some extremely successful records, so maybe don't discredit people so quickly just because they're young (and since when is 31 considered a little boy?)
@@BetterMixes buddy i need only one compressor to get that sound! there is no need to make such a video...sorry
Haha ok bro 👍 That must be one special compressor you've got if you can slap it on some drums and get this sound. It must change the drums tuning and the micing and add EQ and reverb...that's a pretty cool compressor.
@@BetterMixes man what are you talking about? track propper and use a distressor! this is nothing special but people (noobs like you) are try to sell everything as a big thing. evryone needs a catchy slogan for his stupid vids. i am 45 years old and i started in the 90´s don´t tell me something about audio....
@@tiptop8218feel free to share a link to your amazing recordings. I'm eager to learn.
Iconic?
Words have meanings.
Learn what they mean before using them.
Giving off major 'old man yells at clouds' vibes here 😘
If you talk to modern rock and metal producers, the drums on that album are indeed iconic.
Needs work..... Sorry 😔
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man (Big Lebowski reference 😉) Thanks for watching anyway.
Mf just hits 1 tom once. 🫶😂
Hahaha yeah... Probably should have done a part of the song with more toms... My bad!
@@BetterMixes 🤗