It was innovative for its time, that’s the key Same reason many cherish Season of Chosen because it completely changed the seasonal structure and would determine the trajectory of the next 10 seasons.
@@Grassdia fucking exactly. If you look back over 7 years of content of course the shit they copied for every seasonal activity would seem boring comparatively
Counter hot take. While the mechanics were simple. The forge kept the ads coming for once we didn’t have to starve each other of kills. Then to activate the secret of each forge you had to haul ass and kill the small hidden drones, then with the bosses (while they were noting new) we had the perfect bosses. Melee cabal for the caves. Hydra and its harpies flying around the floating cliffs, and a spider tank that could flush us out of our long ranged safe space. The guns as well, yea we have guns that can compare now how many are craft able? How excited when you saw a gold boarder weapon drop of kindled. Or getting the perfect roll of blast furnace? Or farming and getting the perfect prototype silenced SMG. It made you earn each one and the feeling was amazing when you got what you wanted
@@angelousmortis8041Seraph Towers were an overtuned mess designed for 6-9 people even though you could only go in with a party of 3 so you had to hope the whole instance was participating or whoever was participating was excessively good at it otherwise you would lose. There was a world quest that required Seraph Tower clears that Bungie had to boost because no one was clearing them. On paper Seraph Towers weren’t bad but the execution is the worst activity in Destiny history.
@@jackd6269 no the coil is different and better. Sure it doesn’t have time gather bonus rewards (the drones) but as it ramps in difficulty you get to kit yourself for specific builds via Riven gifts.
As someone with the blacksmith title, can I just say Forges and their gameplay loop was atrocious. You had to do 2-3 forges, farm random enemies, and visit Ada like 4-6 times just for one gun. That isn’t an exaggeration, going for the ship made me despise forges so much.
I got the static rampage kill clip roll I think the last day of the season, I was so happy and still being it into pvp and have a blast. This guy may not have liked the season but it was among the best of Destiny
Not a day goes by that I don't miss black armory. I loved the forges how it was a short and sweet activity, the weapons were beautiful, sounded beautiful, and their rolls were superb. The raid will hands down be my favorite raid along with it's armor will always be my favorite. I truly hope black armory content will return.
If black armory content returns everyone will be bored as shit two days in because over the past 7 years they’ve constantly reskinned the forsaken repeatable missions so it’ll just feel like same shit different day.
My favorite thing about Black Amory was #1 Jotunn before it was nerf into oblivion, that thing has power weapon levels of damage at launch. #2 my aggressive frame Kindled Orchid handcannon with Rampage, Killclip, and dropmag which got sunset and I still refuse to dismantle.
Just cuz forges were a mechanically simple activity, doesn't mean there weren't people who were absolute cheeks at it. I remember many times when I'd try a forge run only to fail because one or all three of us were terrible
And I was one of those people, I used to pursue the god roll bow that I don't even remember its name now, the weapons were cool, the neon light thing was a niche, the adds spawn rate in forge is good and exotics are truly exotic with worthy quests
The secret mission during the black armory was amazing. Going to the secret room, using different weapons to shoot symbols, getting the shell and emblem for completing. Awesome. But the forges were only really lame because you had to travel to them.
@@jaredcollins2049yeah the guns were cool. But the forges itself was not solid content. Destiny content has always had similar issues, and I think one of the true reasons why the game cannot grow despite higher up disparities. But people praise D1 while it contained the same if not worse issue. We want a better game, but then bring up the game that was fundamentally (not financial) worse. Plays inconsistency and nostalgia hurts the growth to a small degree. It’s unfortunate. Destiny had something going, but it just didn’t cultivate right.
@@jaredcollins2049 much better than the pile of trash they keep tossing out like Lightfall lmfao. "Hey give us $100 for the deluxe version of Lightfall, a complete joke DLC with a story of complete filler that is meaningless to the actual narrative"
@@jaredcollins2049 yea that’s fair. Forges were rough, but we did get an exotic mission (last word), a fun exotic quest (Izi), 2 exotics unique to certain forges, and a raid exotic. Not to mention that every exotic had/still has a significant place in the PvE or PvP meta. The story was also unique and the raid was fun
Black Armory's Galliard-42 was and still is a top-tier favorite for me. It would make so much sense to bring back all the Armory weapons and make them craftable... I never got the god-roll, but maybe there's still hope to make one
I have a pretty good pvp roll of that gun, for the time. Tap the trigger, range finder and the LONG range scope. It was amazing until the recent Bungie change to how zoom works. Now it's similar to other guns. Zoom was one reason black armory guns felt so good, but the zoom changes nerfed many of those old guns. Same with my ringing nail and a halfdan D that I keptt for years
@@Zornotfugen i think my go-to roll is just like yours lol. The perks were good, but the scope was Meh. I gotta get me a crafted version to be fulfilled
The difficultly/light level wasn’t the reason why it got nerfed cross. Back then the required light to get into the activity was around the Forsaken light cap, which was 100 light above the soft cap. And the base light was not increased like it is for yearly content. People paid for Black Armory only to not be eligible to play the activity without grinding for a couple weeks first. Problematic as hell from a marketing standpoint.
It wasn’t just that kindled orchid had crazy unique rolls at the time… it’s that literally every weapon just felt absolutely amazing to use. Even the world drop exclusives like the baligant and swift ride unique items were just so solid and enjoyable.
My hand's up, I loved the forges. They were an arena mode that felt like Smash TV combined with basketball or something. Once you really learned the spawns and angles they had a great flow to them. I had over 500 forge clears by the end.
So, curious, you loved Forges, right? What did you think about Season of the Worthy's Seraph Towers event? Because those two things were the *exact* same thing and do you know how many people said that they hated Seraph Towers?
@@angelousmortis8041 Funnily enough, I got tired of Seraph Towers pretty quickly for that very reason. It just seemed like they were out of ideas and warming over the same mechanics again and again, the activity didn't even get a unique game space. I took a lengthy break from the game after that.
Forges and Seraph Towers both have balls to throw, and that's where the similarities stop. I don't know why you're all over this comment section spilling the same verbal diarrhea like you have any kind of valuable point to make, but it's hilariously silly. Seraph Towers were wildly unbalanced due to the fact that they made the activity for several people despite allowing only three people to load in together, and that's only the surface issue. Acting like they're the same is either comically disingenuous, or downright insane. @@angelousmortis8041
Idk if it was just 14 year old me, but I don't recall Destiny 1's launch issues or content droughts. I had PLENTY of free time playing it and don't recall any times where I didn't feel like playing. Exotics were my chase, and they were respectfully rare and kept me chasing. PvP metas were great with everything being busted for the new genre. I mainly played PVP
Halfway through year two was dead. Not that we don't have six months of very little content now, but the same things happened in year two. Generally the content droughts are much worse now especially considering bungie timegate everything to drag it out. Y1 and Y2 released most all the content all at once and it still took a month of hard playtime to finish it all.
@@armourdillo1236 i think i just perfer playing games at my own pace so i had alot of fun with d1 pvp, pve, raids, trials and IB i didnt play all the time but when d2 rolled around they were changing how content dropped and i quit cause i couldn't with paying for everything and i couldnt play all the content then they move on, vaulted and sunsetting shit
I farmed those two forges endlessly this way, trying to get the Refurbished Black Armory shader (which was a pain because the drop-on-dismantle rate of rare shaders was atrocious). Used Cerberus+1 and Actium war rig for the Cabal and Vex forges, because that weird little exotic could tear through crowds.
New random patrol bosses that drop unique weapons, using your different forge weapons to shoot and dicifer secret symbols, and of course the new loot with never before seen perk roll combinations on different archetypes. What kept me going during the dry times was, if bungie could come up with so many good changes in just 1 season, I can't wait to see what they'll come up with in the next season.
My biggest gripe for Black Armory was as I started during that time, it was absolutely inaccessible for players that didn't play for quite a long time already. It's power level was above dreaming city and only getting to that was very time consuming during that time.
I remember the Forge as a difficulty spike we hadn't really had in D2 before then, especially the first day BEFORE they nerfed the difficulty, and Hammerhead was one of the best machune guns to this day. Edit: I got Anarchy to drop first run too.
It wasn’t that the forges were hard is that bungie put the light level of enemies above last wish for some stupid reason. Which meant than only 10% of the community could actually play them and not get one shot immediately.
@@rexthewolf3149 Apologies if it seemed like I was speaking about any individual forge, but I mean the season "Forge". The difficulty spike of the season was more than just the mob strength. The puzzle mechanics of the season had no D2 equal up to that point. There were 3 or 4 exotics released that were tied to the forge secrets/puzzles. It took the WHOLE community (streamers, viewers, raidsecrets, etc) over 3 days to figure out the Niobe Lab puzzle. Bungie HAD to tweet hints/solutions for it to end. Scourge raid mechanics absolutely made encounters more individually challenging. Roaming zone bosses were added to patrol zones. Season of the Forge had no seasonal or endgame rival for puzzle/mechanic difficulty in D2 *UP TO THAT POINT*.
Also got Anarchy on either first on second attempt. Unlike 1k voices that I had to grind with all 3 characters for 3 months straight and that's after drop rate increase. I believe it was also the first full raid completion of my clan. Fun times.
I don't know if it was because i was still relatively new to D2 at the time, but grinding and finally getting a decent Galliard 42-XN7568 filled me with so much pride and joy
ADA, offered us the opportunity to forge weapons from the Golden age, and those weapons were amazing, sexy, all totally different and there was something very special about ADAs area
Nah don’t agree, the Forges kept me playing Destiny back then, the weapons were good and it was still challenging even after they toned it down. Also you could farm specific weapons as well. Give me back the forges and forge weapons crafting as a seasonal activity that’ll get me back to playing this game. That season was the best!
I started in season 10. The thing with the forge was getting the hammerhead. It was reliable as it was strong and helped me get through the rose mission. It might not have been amazing, but in those days, being a lifelong solo player, it made the game so much easier, considering most other options were pretty meh. Now, we don't have these intermediary missions that helped players get slightly better. it's either be happy with subpar gear or pray you have a good LFG that knows how to complete a raid or trial. I had to put down destiny for a few seasons because they don't know how to balance the game for the people in between learning the game and day 1 raiders. I still enjoy the game, but I just wish they knew that not everyone is a part of a regular raid team.
I liked forges and even sundial because it was like a more rewarding public event. I agree with you on the forges though it was grindy as hell to unlock them and them reducing the difficulty is probly why everything we have now scales. This is coming from someone who has over a 1000 clears of terminal overload the appeal to me is testing out new fun builds in a somewhat challenging activity with others. Its not the most high level gameplay but it gives you a chance to practice things without the added pressure of needing to perform in a strike or raid, more of a chill thing like fishing. Escalation Protocol was my absolute favourite of these kind of wave based repetitive activities because you got a ramp up in difficulty and a true feeling of the impending doom of failure. It felt like a race. Having them instanced is better for the servers and the players but I think they only struck a balance now with Rivens Lair and the Coil because it gives players the choice between quick one and done or extended but more difficult and rewarding. They can be daunting for new players to complete like how they nerfed forges and how sundial was rarely ever completed without a certain level of players but when you help out new lights and people trying to grind an event it feels good because you have gotten your loot as well as helped others to get theirs. Just completely random people off the street. Sometimes you want to brain off and just slay out so these activities are some of my favourite it has just taken them a few attempts to strike a balance. Compare Prison of Elders to Coil and there is no comparison.
As much as Forge was repetative it was innovation for Bungie. 4 arenas were distinct and required cooperation for a group of randoms and bosses sometimes were hard to kill. And for the rewards - all of the weapons and armor had new models, no reskins, all of the exotics were just amazing and held out for much longer than most of the newer ones. Players won't like doing forges as they were, but the very core of abilities, nevermind their powers, changed. Then, after Forsaken ended it just rolled downhill. Bungie adopted "just enough to not lose too much of angry players" approach. I vividly remember doing season of the splicer event and thinking it was just forges again, but with champions, way easier and way worse. Judging forges by the standard of "how it would play after all of the updates" is a bit disenginious.
My Blast Furnace, my Kindled Orchid, my Hammerhead, and my BB No Feelings still remain in my vault. I don't have too many sunset weapons left - but the ones I have are irreplaceable. My Go Figure will also never leave my vault. Bungie really just needs to hit us with a refresh for the Black Armory, Sundial, and even the Tangled Shore weapons. But unlike the reprised Reckoning weapons (which I still don't understand)...make them craftable. Let those seasonal weapons live on forever. Current seasonal weapons are craftable, so it only makes sense.
Were the forge missions boring after a while? Sure but I enjoyed doing them though because the weapons looked amazing and I miss my ringing nail. I think Ada-1 should either sell the black armory weapons or make it so we can craft select weapons
To the person that said corridors wasn't worth the juice... you literally find your own grave. Youre looking at your casket, idk how that wasn't worth it imo
PvP during season of the forge was a lot fo fun. Had real reasons to grind. Not Forgotten Recluse Mountain Top Emblems Ornaments Supers and heavy was still a plague. They are still today though so.
I always wanted weapon transmog specifically because I preferred form over function for my weapons in D2. the BA weapons were almost permanently on my character, and a huge part of the reason I quit the game after they got sunset.
"At the time" is the big phrase for anything Forsaken. The changes made to the game saved it. The improvements we've had since then have just been building on Forsaken but its always "back in Forsaken"
I have 666 forge completions on my black armory emblem. Would I do it again? I'd go for over 1000. Yeah the activity was easy, but damn was those weapons sexy and the rolls that came on them blew my mind. Pvp was great, the raid was fun, and I would love to get that feeling back
The activity itself definitely got old but god damn do i miss how sexy the weapons looked. The ornaments they had, the forge radiance, and how well they took shaders. I'll always have my hammerhead and blast furnace in the vault.
I had some fun with the Black Armory, but I did get bored with it to. Some of the guns were good. It was worth it for the exotic Toaster. One of the best exotics. It sucks that the Legendary guns got sunsetted like the Mountain Top, Recluse, and a bunch more. Sunsetting them guns was a bunch of BS.
Bungo also had two other studios, Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studio, working with them for Forsaken and the seasons for that year. The level of manpower they had then eclipses what they have now, especially post-layoffs.
The thing about the old content is that it brought things we wanted in the game, Forsaken got rid of double primary, made shotguns not heavy weapons, random rolls (again), and expanded subclasses. Sure the content was boring but so is like 65% of the game the rewards is what everyone is for and the side secret content. Niobe Labs was incredibly difficult at the time and the mission to get the Whisper of the Worm was only accessible through a specific public event. There was secret symbols you can only see through the black armory weapons that would lead to a bunch of people trying to figure is out as well as the codes on the Rasputin computers and the specific music notes that were played lead to other clues about what was happening same thing with the sundial secret that lead to an emblem and I think bastion. But it was so worth it Labs wasn't as much you got an emblem and a shell but it's like getting a flawless dungeon or a Day 1 finished, and the weapons can't be understated some of the best weapons that hold up even now if they weren't sunset were released in Forsaken expansion and the coming seasons. Even some of the weapons were a secret only being side loot from the forge or dropping by a number of specific enemies. But after the sunset everything that was released has been for the sake of balance and monetary gain not for entertainment. They were so scared of power creep only for it to show up again they tune down outliers only for their new content to outclass so you're forced to want to buy. The most fun that I've had on Destiny in a looong time was when the forge turned every gun into a shotgun. It's not a hot take the old shit as well as the new specifically seasonal content is mind numbingly boring just like dares of eternity.
black armory had worldline skating, titan skating, amazing black armory weapons, people were still doing last wish for gear and we got another raid right after with scourge, the niobe labs puzzle was still the best community event we've ever had, we got anarchy which is still one of the most iconic exotics in destiny history. really hard to beat black armory, especially since it wasn't even an expansion. Crazy good.
Curated-Chattering Bone (KC+HIR), MovTrgt+Headseeker-Syncopation, HiCal+HeatUp+MKC-Gridskipper... Amongst the best non-exotic pulses I've ever used in PVP. Those 3 have never failed me. Can't wait to Craft a ChatBone. And maybe re-release updated Splicer weapons??
Never once even attempted labs. I was overwhelmed with stuff to do. I didn't even know it was a thing until I heard it was bugged and then I wrote it off. I was Hunting for a blast furnace and hammer head forever. I got the kindled orchid god roll first time with the shader.
I mean, I didn’t sink enough time into black armory due to me being really young, not knowing all the secret exotic nor how to complete their quests, or even getting the obsidian thing for the Ada finale. I did have a really fun time playing forges and especially have a soft spot for the raid. The raid was absolutely awesome and I wish we got more bosses like the giant fallen mechs. Hopefully we get something like that for the witness raid in final shape :)
Just wanted to mention that if Forge & Opulence released on their own in terms of "activity + guns" nowadays, they'd still be considered pretty good seasonal activities. Despite forges being really simple & fast, the loot was worthwhile (even if the state of the game had some *very* grindy quest lines). The raids released during the two seasons elevate the seasons into a league of their own; good activity (w. optional hard mode for menagerie) + distinct weapons w. unique perk/archetype combos + raid drop (also w. some very famous guns). Getting all three of those is RARE in a single content drop is rare, and I'm not even counting the secret missions. While there is a bit of copium when talking about the black armory and opulence, there is a *lot* good to those drops that is not done nearly as frequently since then.
Black Armory had absolutely the best gun models. Those weapons were so sexy even when they were sunset I still carried them. The only thing that killed off those weapons was sunsetting. Those guns had such a great feel too, the way they fired and reticles. Dang I shouldn’t have deleted those guns 😢.
4:49 and if I'm not mistaken Bungie multiple times made the throwable objects less and less likely to miss. Iirc if you had multiple misses it would just throw the whole activity off. And people complained about it, specifically for the matchmaking.
Much love to that guy and Aztecross. Aesthetic is almost everything. If it wasn't huge, destiny would have a smaller pool of shaders, sparrows, ghost models, transmat effect, Zero Eververse Shop. Black armory looked beautiful. Which made me grind the forge. So I could have a sexy weapon with sexy perks. Blast furnace, ringing nail, Izangi's burden. Izangi's Burden has a literal sword on the side of it. Le monarque was good and got better. And people still use both that and Jotun in crucible to this days 6 years ago. Every season has downsides, but good golly miss molly, that was a beautiful season
As a Shadowkeep - 30th Anni player, grinding the Menagerie was my favorite farmable activity. I enjoyed that every run was different + I could target farm loot to an extent
I'm more than happy to admit that forges weren't for everyone, but I loved them as they were for me. Rejoined the game when it came to Steam, and I was doing forges all the way up until the day they were vaulted. There was a wonderful loop of working on the first step of the weapon frame quest while completing the forge for the second step of a separate weapon frame. The original Black Armory weapons I poured my passion into hammering will never be deleted, and I still use them to this day where light is synchronized.
Whenever I play a mode with light level turned off I pop on Kindled Orchid with an Aachen, and have more fun with it than I do any other time. For the weapons Black Armory absolutely still hangs, and KO still out competes a lot of other 140s to this day. Even rolls other than Kill Clip + Rampage it just feels great to use Kindled Orchid
Forge sounds fun, as i think to the different modes in destiny 2 i would love a mode where its just an arena or small scale map where you do something, and the only thing that we have where you dont run endlessly until you finish the activity is Gambit. Every other mode i can think of is where you run around in a linear fashion and just killing enemies doing certain stuff and the running some more. We got Dares of Eternity, kill some ads, run, kill some ads, run kill some ads and the boss, done. We got The Coil, Defiant Battlegrounds, Deep Dive, Salvage basicly any of the seasonal stuff we have had, follows basicly the same pattern. You go in you kill some stuff and then you move through the water area, i mean what season of the deep makes no sense why they added a water mechanic just to have it be a timed parkour/traversal tool. If they however took that underwater stuff and made it so you could fight underwater or maybe make an underwater Crucible map.... I feel like with these repeated patterns they are using so much time on developing a long linear map, where i would be fine with smaller maps and something exciting to do. Gambit is alot of small maps, and its got a little PvP spice in there too, but even if pvp wasent a thing, just moving around the small map to put in the motes and spawn a big 3 phase boss at the end is cool. I dont get why people dont like gambit more, it has that PvP element too which is exciting not knowing how the match is gonna go.
He COMPLETELY bypassed the reason why people are nostalgic about past content. He focuses on the seasonal activities themselves, not the quality of loot that we earned for the time that was invested.
Black Armory weapons were just amazing. For the time they got introduced they were not only refreshing from a perk (combination) point but also from the design and effects. They weren't just a repainted devils ruin. They sounded different, they had completely unique models, sights/scopes (that 4:3 television scope on the sniper). And lets not forget about the biggest shake up in pve ever: A special weapon dethroning heavy weapons for boss damage. Izanagi is hands down my favourite weapon in the whole game, everything about that weapon is unique. So saying season of the forge was amazing is not correct, since, I agree, the forges were simply boring. But from a flavour point of view: Big W from my side. Oh, and...We still had things to discover. It wasnt just shoved in the season pass.
I hope they do eventually bring back some of the older weapons especially the black armory set. heck I would also like to see some older activities return with a fresh coat of paint, the menagerie, reworked forges, other seasonal activities, hopefully after final shape they can work on some of those
I remember learning 1-5 in binary for outbreaknin d1 😂. And I still have my ringing nail with rampage dragonfly. I still think my faveotie weapon designs are from season of the chosen though. Those are the only set in the game I never put a shader on
He kinda has a point with the nostalgia bug. What really drew us to those points of the game really was a active personal community(friend groups, etc) and game popularity. The reason why things feel bad now is honestly people waking up to the fact that we really have been doing the same thing for multiple years.
He keeps saying "everyone" and using hyperbolic language. He's flat out wrong. Destiny 2 vanilla lost MILLIONS of players within WEEKS. And with every lackluster season, expansion, or activity they regained, then re-lost huge numbers of players. Several seasons around the time of "Season of the Forge" was when random roles started to be re-introduced into the game and I started hearing about craftible weapons. The seasons surrounding Black Armory was the first time I ever even HEARD about that possibility, and I had NO IDEA what it meant. It's easy to look back and shit on Bungie for many of those seasons, but Bungie wasn't in control of the game back then either, so ai hope you at least take THAT into account. My problem with Destiny 2 is that, despite the almost overwhelming amount of content, it still feels like I'm always doing the same activities, and THAT shouldn't be the case. Destiny 2 took away twice as many destinations as they gave us back. Destinations I loved playing. Many of my favorite missions are gone from the game, replaced by uninspired destinations I don't have any attachment to, and don't have much to do with the storyline. I'm not a gamer. I play Destiny. I've played Destiny from the start. Now I find myself playing the Destiny 1 more and more. If Bungie brought back all of the sunset kissions, like the Black Forge activities, I would play Destiny 2 again.
Same bro, my favourite pulse of all time, I still have my god roll in my vault. Nothing and I mean nothing has ever felt or shot as goof or me, in the aggressive pulse archetype.
We need another, a black armory v2 that could be added in the final shape! Think of it, they could use it as bending the powers of the previous forges and combining them with the darkness classes(even the 3rd one if we get it) and it can be like an open experimental season of insane and deadly perks
That would be absolutely sick to bring back black armory weapons as shapable weapons. Furthermore, the Black Armory, from a lore standpoint, is a totally underutilized asset. It would be cool if the Vanguard or the Drifter has been talking to Ada-1 on the down low, maybe about Strand and the Deepsight Forge on Mars. Who knows what they could come up with?
The reason I think why everyone loved it is because it was like a raid or dungeon encounter, it was all in one area unlike todays seasonal activity it’s, clear this room, run to the next room, and clear this room, run across the room you just came from to go downstairs and I think that’s why forges were better because it was in a central location and kept you alive all the time instead of spending more time walking then actually killing things
As someone with a very good memory I usually just tune out people who want to make the argument "it's not as good as you remember." Very rarely are they going to have anything of value to say considering they couldn't come at the topic from a place of respect.
The thing about black armory - we were coming off a horrible content draught and had very recently been given random rolls back. And those rolls were really good. You have to look at it in the context of its time. We now have so much and power creep has gotten so bad, that nothing feels special anymore. We were motivated to grind those weapons because every roll was new. It was like a new game back then. Now, a new set of weapons comes out, and I generally don't have much reason to grind any of them because I already have something as good or better, till they release some power crept shit like immortal with the same gun model as a gun I already have but some busted ass perk like target lock. Sunsetting was supposed to fix this but of course it was one of the most hated systems ever. How do you fix a looter shooter when the players already have all the loot? I think cosmetics is the way. We will still grind our asses off for the skimmer or for an emblem or for a shader or effect. but it wont fuck the balance of the game completely. IMO bungie should put most of its resources towards cosmetics, not guns.
Man, it’s been. 6 years?! I still love the forge and its weapons, particularly the auto rifles. I still have a few decent pvp roles but sadly no god rolls, I also have the pulse and the smg still.
To date, I have 236 forge completions. That's specifically speaking about the weapons created. I have more beyond that just for runs. I have said it before, I want forges back cause I may be the only one, but I like the forges.
I think Forges sticking around for longer than their assigned 'season' helped people remember them more fondly than other seasonal activities. Sure, doing the Forges got repetitive fairly quickly, but you could spread all that out over something like 2 years instead of cramming it all into 3-4 months. It certainly made grinding to get the Platinum Starling more bearable for me.
Didn't they "nerf" forges by reducing the overall Power Level entry requirement?? Wasn't it like 540/530 or something day 1 then they reduced it to 510? I don't recall them actually nerfing the difficulty otherwise.
It sounds like he is trying to say that we are wrong and/or stupid if we liked Black Armory. The entire time this guy is talking, he sounds like a person who doesn't like a certain food and is trying to make you feel bad about liking that food. If he didn't like Black Armory, it's okay. A lot of us liked Black Armory. In the end, I get his stance, but they way he delivers it, it is like he is trying to crush your dreams about Black Armory. Don't crush the dreams dude.
Some of the black armory weapons are still being used. The hammerhead is still being used in PvP and in Gambit (if you care about gambit). And No feelings is still a great scout in PVP.
I'm with you Cross. I miss my BA weapons so much. And while it's true that the Forges became repetitive, they were still fun to do, imo. For me, I'm all for Bungie bringing back the Forges (obviously retooled and with variety) and of course those sweet, sweet BA weapons.
I loved grinding the forge. I would get on with my brother and father and we would grind the hell out of them. Chasing iganazi, le monarque, trying to solve puzzles, etc. It was awesome.
Imagine Bungie creating a raid so hard it takes weeks to solve, with them going completely radio silent on hints and clues. An letting the community figure it out themselves. Now that’s something I would absolutely love!
Speaking of exotics, they drop like very frequent now, I have ten engrams on my hunter and warlock now after just decrypting ten on my hunter. They definitely drop more frequently now than back then.
the "puzzles" that he brings up is how raids and endgame content should be in my opinion. more focus on hard puzzles while being able to shred through enemies rather than basically no puzzle and enemies shred you and are lowkey tanky. idk if im in the minority but interesting to see what other think also it really is insane to think about the amount of content we got during that time. like seriously crazy
Also, and I'm pretty confident I can speak for the majority of Gambit Players here, we want the Gambit Rework back. We want Gambit, The Reckoning, and Gambit Prime to be the Gambit Node again. Most of us never asked for it to be changed like this and we have disliked this change the entire time. There are a few folks who wouldn't like it sure, but most of us want this change.
I'm with you on all points in this one Aztecross. Friends and I were actually excited when we first realized the forges weren't going to be cake walks. Then they got nerfed. Black Armory is hands down my favorite and it has nothing to do with the activity. The weapons, the armor, the lore etc. were just fantastic. The only season I think, and this is my opinion, that came close to me for enjoyment was Season of the Seraph. And again not cause of the activity, but the story, the weapons, the exotic quest was solid, etc.
I remember people were pissed off about that event, both on the side of figuring it out, and then mad at Bungie for unlocking it even after no one figured it out. Bungie invalidated failure because so many people were mad that this one puzzle obscruted so much progress to a few quests, and setting it on a schedule for a release. There were many solo players at the time that were frustrated and the difficulty was meant to have at least 3 players to tag along
I still would love to have new and old BA weapons. Bungie could add red border, and god rolls to Ada. It’d give players more incentive to visit her besides fashion. Bungie could even add a questline that involves rebuilding the Forges, and making them stronger with Neomuni nano tech, with help from Osiris and Quinn. The Quest could end with us getting a new Black Armory exotic, as well as Ada’s area changing to incorporate the Loom, and Forges. House Light Elksni Weavers could handle crafting armor at the Loom, while Ads focused on weapon smithing at the Forges, and occasionally sewing armor at the Loom. We could have god rolls available, while new bounties to gain red border BA weapons could be available. I think, it’d be great. After all, Bungie still has Daito, Crux/Lomar (legendary weapons), MIDA, more Tex Mechanica weapons (outside the Spire dungeon), and Black armory weapons, to add back into the loot pool.
Great spirit of Bungie, I wish they would bring back more Black Armory guns for crafting. Like a free Black Armory 2.0 or something, they literally don't even have to add new weapons, just update all of the old ones and make them craftable, the forge activity doesn't even really need to come back unless bungle wanted to give themselves a reason and tie the update to a season as part of that seasons content. I am floored that we are getting two of the better Black Armory weapons back through Shaxx's new Brave Arsenal. Also wish that un-sunsetting gear would actually be just that, because it isn't. I still have my old sunset hammerhead and a few other weapons that have come back but those original weapons are still sunset and capped at 1600 light-level, forever collecting dust in the back of my vault.
Everything from the hidden emblem puzzles to the forges to the godly weapons to the raid to the Iz quest to the fact that we still had all the planets back then- *I can assure you it was actually better than you remember*
The Blacksmith title is the only title I continue to use to this day. And the way things are going, it will be a long time before I feel strongly about a season to swap it to something else.
i would like to point out that of the exotics that were added in black armory all of them are very good still (possible exception for jotunn eventho i have a spot in my heart for it) all the weapons and the armor looked good AF and felt good to use, there was also the mountain top/recluse, the raid itself was pretty good and had some really great weapons (at the time) threat level for example
List of expansions and what they are really worth imo (with hindsight): Curse of Osiris and Warmind = Free lol MSRP =$35 and $20 Forsaken = $30 MSRP =$40 Shadow Keep = $10 (basically a seasonal quest with a raid) MSRP =$35 Beyond Light = $20 MSRP =$40 Witch Queen = $40 MSRP =$40 Light Fall =$25-30 MSRP $40 Lessons learned? Don't ever pre-order or buy the deluxe + additions of the game. Also Bungie has a pricing problem with their product. We as a community need to start comparing Destiny's expansions to other content at the same price point (im looking at you helldivers 2). Seasonal content is well priced at $10 but everything else is out of whack.
You gotta also take into account that alot of the new weapons that rival the black armory weapons are raid and dungeon weapons. Not that those activities aren't fun or anything but they are activities that are long. You gotta remember that we could get a kindled orchid rampage kill clip roll in like 5 to 10 minutes flat with a crap fireteam; where as nation of beasts and zoulis bane take maybe 15 to 20 minutes with a great fireteam. And the forges were matchmade at the time and raids weren't. Now we have in game lfg so it is easier for some lower skill players to be able to get the raid and dungeon weapons bow but at the time lower skill players didn't even touch raids and other high tier activities. So it was nice for lower skill players to be able to get a really amazing weapon really easily. Not that I'm defending them, I am a lower skill player but that's by my own design being that I don't really like to play with other people as much, especially people I don't really know. But it was nice at the time
Imagine if final shape drops and bungie just brings back every activity they ever made into the game again. Some seasons conflicted with eachother in terms of location and in those cases they should pick the most popular one to bring back but outside of that it would be awesome to have it all back again with updated drops and such. A content drought would be highly unlikely at that point because there would just be SO MUCH to do that if we ever got bored we could just go do something different. I get that things were removed due to the lore and all that, but i say screw the lore. After tfs it can be assumed that we already know what happened in the story, and im sure 90% of people would be willing to overlook it just so they could do those activities again. Menagerie was absolutely my favorite activity that bungie ever released and i will forever miss it.
People remember it as good because it had things bungie rarely done before at that time, like the box, it was a community effort to solve it
It had it's issues for sure but I think overall, it was good overall. It would be garbage in this day and age though.
It was innovative for its time, that’s the key
Same reason many cherish Season of Chosen because it completely changed the seasonal structure and would determine the trajectory of the next 10 seasons.
@@Grassdia fucking exactly. If you look back over 7 years of content of course the shit they copied for every seasonal activity would seem boring comparatively
Counter hot take.
While the mechanics were simple. The forge kept the ads coming for once we didn’t have to starve each other of kills. Then to activate the secret of each forge you had to haul ass and kill the small hidden drones, then with the bosses (while they were noting new) we had the perfect bosses. Melee cabal for the caves. Hydra and its harpies flying around the floating cliffs, and a spider tank that could flush us out of our long ranged safe space.
The guns as well, yea we have guns that can compare now how many are craft able? How excited when you saw a gold boarder weapon drop of kindled. Or getting the perfect roll of blast furnace? Or farming and getting the perfect prototype silenced SMG. It made you earn each one and the feeling was amazing when you got what you wanted
Okay, so, what about Seraph Towers? Those were basically just Forges and people hated them.
@@angelousmortis8041Seraph Towers were an overtuned mess designed for 6-9 people even though you could only go in with a party of 3 so you had to hope the whole instance was participating or whoever was participating was excessively good at it otherwise you would lose. There was a world quest that required Seraph Tower clears that Bungie had to boost because no one was clearing them.
On paper Seraph Towers weren’t bad but the execution is the worst activity in Destiny history.
you could say all this about the coil. i think you're just burnt out
I agree on not starving each other for kills. There was a few spawn points. Everyone pretty much picked one and stayed there.
@@jackd6269 no the coil is different and better. Sure it doesn’t have time gather bonus rewards (the drones) but as it ramps in difficulty you get to kit yourself for specific builds via Riven gifts.
As someone with the blacksmith title, can I just say Forges and their gameplay loop was atrocious. You had to do 2-3 forges, farm random enemies, and visit Ada like 4-6 times just for one gun. That isn’t an exaggeration, going for the ship made me despise forges so much.
Yeah i got that shit too its rough
Ya but it was worth for weapons
Funny toaster gun worth it
The weapons made it worth It
At least we had some fresh loot, and exotics we could forge from the seasonal activities
Let me fix it: "Black Armory was ABSOLUTELY as good as you remember", there he goes ...
You 100% right
uh-huh
No. His original title was right.
No it wasn’t
A more accurate title would be "black armory MIGHT not be as good as you remember" but his title is definitely better at getting attention
I still have that Kindled Orchid. What I miss are the Saint 14 weapons (Steelfeather Repeater, etc)
I WANT MY STEELFEATHER BACK ASAP😩😩😩😩
Breachlight my beloved 😥
I got the static rampage kill clip roll I think the last day of the season, I was so happy and still being it into pvp and have a blast. This guy may not have liked the season but it was among the best of Destiny
I miss Saint being straight.
Yes! Steelfeather was my favourite- loved that gun!
Not a day goes by that I don't miss black armory. I loved the forges how it was a short and sweet activity, the weapons were beautiful, sounded beautiful, and their rolls were superb. The raid will hands down be my favorite raid along with it's armor will always be my favorite.
I truly hope black armory content will return.
The leaks say it IS returning. Along with craftable gear from VoG and Prophecy.
@@Dynasty1818 dungeon weapons won't be craftable its only raids
If black armory content returns everyone will be bored as shit two days in because over the past 7 years they’ve constantly reskinned the forsaken repeatable missions so it’ll just feel like same shit different day.
Same, it was my favourite season/ expansion for Forsaken, right next t season of opulence.
My favorite thing about Black Amory was #1 Jotunn before it was nerf into oblivion, that thing has power weapon levels of damage at launch.
#2 my aggressive frame Kindled Orchid handcannon with Rampage, Killclip, and dropmag which got sunset and I still refuse to dismantle.
Just cuz forges were a mechanically simple activity, doesn't mean there weren't people who were absolute cheeks at it. I remember many times when I'd try a forge run only to fail because one or all three of us were terrible
And I was one of those people, I used to pursue the god roll bow that I don't even remember its name now, the weapons were cool, the neon light thing was a niche, the adds spawn rate in forge is good and exotics are truly exotic with worthy quests
Forge could be a PVPVE activity. I see the vision. Black Armory also had Scourge that season. Why is that getting left out????
another reason i HATED forges sometimes it felt like i was soloing it and even giving my all we failed just wasting time
Not to mention the people who were AFK farming it. I remember, trying to run it during that, and it was nearly impossible!
I agree with cross. They need a new rarity and it needs to be hella rare.
The secret mission during the black armory was amazing. Going to the secret room, using different weapons to shoot symbols, getting the shell and emblem for completing. Awesome. But the forges were only really lame because you had to travel to them.
Yet everyone crying about it so no more
Black armory was that goat shit. Best weapons we’ve ever had. Such a nice aesthetic and five exotics that people still love.
Ehh, good guns doesn't make it good content.
@@jaredcollins2049yeah the guns were cool. But the forges itself was not solid content.
Destiny content has always had similar issues, and I think one of the true reasons why the game cannot grow despite higher up disparities. But people praise D1 while it contained the same if not worse issue. We want a better game, but then bring up the game that was fundamentally (not financial) worse.
Plays inconsistency and nostalgia hurts the growth to a small degree. It’s unfortunate. Destiny had something going, but it just didn’t cultivate right.
@@jaredcollins2049 much better than the pile of trash they keep tossing out like Lightfall lmfao. "Hey give us $100 for the deluxe version of Lightfall, a complete joke DLC with a story of complete filler that is meaningless to the actual narrative"
@@jaredcollins2049yea but guns are content for some people
@@jaredcollins2049 yea that’s fair. Forges were rough, but we did get an exotic mission (last word), a fun exotic quest (Izi), 2 exotics unique to certain forges, and a raid exotic. Not to mention that every exotic had/still has a significant place in the PvE or PvP meta. The story was also unique and the raid was fun
Black Armory's Galliard-42 was and still is a top-tier favorite for me. It would make so much sense to bring back all the Armory weapons and make them craftable... I never got the god-roll, but maybe there's still hope to make one
I have a pretty good pvp roll of that gun, for the time. Tap the trigger, range finder and the LONG range scope. It was amazing until the recent Bungie change to how zoom works. Now it's similar to other guns.
Zoom was one reason black armory guns felt so good, but the zoom changes nerfed many of those old guns. Same with my ringing nail and a halfdan D that I keptt for years
@@Zornotfugen i think my go-to roll is just like yours lol. The perks were good, but the scope was Meh. I gotta get me a crafted version to be fulfilled
I still miss my Explosive Payload/Surrounded Kindled Orchid🤦♂️😂
Kept mine with Spo-58, high cal, outlaw, rampage. Its grandfathered into my vault
The difficultly/light level wasn’t the reason why it got nerfed cross. Back then the required light to get into the activity was around the Forsaken light cap, which was 100 light above the soft cap. And the base light was not increased like it is for yearly content.
People paid for Black Armory only to not be eligible to play the activity without grinding for a couple weeks first. Problematic as hell from a marketing standpoint.
THIS.
It wasn’t just that kindled orchid had crazy unique rolls at the time… it’s that literally every weapon just felt absolutely amazing to use. Even the world drop exclusives like the baligant and swift ride unique items were just so solid and enjoyable.
My hand's up, I loved the forges. They were an arena mode that felt like Smash TV combined with basketball or something. Once you really learned the spawns and angles they had a great flow to them. I had over 500 forge clears by the end.
So, curious, you loved Forges, right? What did you think about Season of the Worthy's Seraph Towers event? Because those two things were the *exact* same thing and do you know how many people said that they hated Seraph Towers?
Also, nice Smash TV reference.
@@angelousmortis8041 Funnily enough, I got tired of Seraph Towers pretty quickly for that very reason. It just seemed like they were out of ideas and warming over the same mechanics again and again, the activity didn't even get a unique game space. I took a lengthy break from the game after that.
Forges and Seraph Towers both have balls to throw, and that's where the similarities stop. I don't know why you're all over this comment section spilling the same verbal diarrhea like you have any kind of valuable point to make, but it's hilariously silly. Seraph Towers were wildly unbalanced due to the fact that they made the activity for several people despite allowing only three people to load in together, and that's only the surface issue. Acting like they're the same is either comically disingenuous, or downright insane. @@angelousmortis8041
Idk if it was just 14 year old me, but I don't recall Destiny 1's launch issues or content droughts. I had PLENTY of free time playing it and don't recall any times where I didn't feel like playing. Exotics were my chase, and they were respectfully rare and kept me chasing. PvP metas were great with everything being busted for the new genre. I mainly played PVP
Halfway through year two was dead. Not that we don't have six months of very little content now, but the same things happened in year two. Generally the content droughts are much worse now especially considering bungie timegate everything to drag it out.
Y1 and Y2 released most all the content all at once and it still took a month of hard playtime to finish it all.
@@armourdillo1236 i think i just perfer playing games at my own pace so i had alot of fun with d1 pvp, pve, raids, trials and IB i didnt play all the time but when d2 rolled around they were changing how content dropped and i quit cause i couldn't with paying for everything and i couldnt play all the content then they move on, vaulted and sunsetting shit
@@krackedbeats5947 Bungie deleting the content we paid for really should get them in legal trouble
@@armourdillo1236No
bungie timegated SOOOOOO much shit in d1 aswell. but yeah content drought was rough if you didn't live in PVP@@armourdillo1236
The only thing I remember about the forges was running around with Riskrunner. Basically unkillable on the two fallen forges 😂😂😂
I farmed those two forges endlessly this way, trying to get the Refurbished Black Armory shader (which was a pain because the drop-on-dismantle rate of rare shaders was atrocious). Used Cerberus+1 and Actium war rig for the Cabal and Vex forges, because that weird little exotic could tear through crowds.
Same man, I loved using risk runner haha.
New random patrol bosses that drop unique weapons, using your different forge weapons to shoot and dicifer secret symbols, and of course the new loot with never before seen perk roll combinations on different archetypes. What kept me going during the dry times was, if bungie could come up with so many good changes in just 1 season, I can't wait to see what they'll come up with in the next season.
My biggest gripe for Black Armory was as I started during that time, it was absolutely inaccessible for players that didn't play for quite a long time already.
It's power level was above dreaming city and only getting to that was very time consuming during that time.
if you didn’t bounty prep day 1 of black armory was almost unplayable
I remember the Forge as a difficulty spike we hadn't really had in D2 before then, especially the first day BEFORE they nerfed the difficulty, and Hammerhead was one of the best machune guns to this day.
Edit: I got Anarchy to drop first run too.
It wasn’t that the forges were hard is that bungie put the light level of enemies above last wish for some stupid reason. Which meant than only 10% of the community could actually play them and not get one shot immediately.
@@rexthewolf3149 Apologies if it seemed like I was speaking about any individual forge, but I mean the season "Forge". The difficulty spike of the season was more than just the mob strength. The puzzle mechanics of the season had no D2 equal up to that point. There were 3 or 4 exotics released that were tied to the forge secrets/puzzles. It took the WHOLE community (streamers, viewers, raidsecrets, etc) over 3 days to figure out the Niobe Lab puzzle. Bungie HAD to tweet hints/solutions for it to end. Scourge raid mechanics absolutely made encounters more individually challenging. Roaming zone bosses were added to patrol zones. Season of the Forge had no seasonal or endgame rival for puzzle/mechanic difficulty in D2 *UP TO THAT POINT*.
Also got Anarchy on either first on second attempt. Unlike 1k voices that I had to grind with all 3 characters for 3 months straight and that's after drop rate increase.
I believe it was also the first full raid completion of my clan. Fun times.
This guy genuinely said nothing this whole time
Literally click bait facts
He's new at this. Give him a break.
Wasnt sundial six man? I recall doing that activity in a chill manner and always completing on time
In ten minutes of video this guy was able to repeat the same single point thinking that his personal preference is the absolute truth 😅
In d1, that feeling when an actual exotic engram flys out of an open world boss and you see it drop on the ground 😢🎉that was pure dopamine.
Every exotic I have that has a Black Armory themed ormament, has it permanently glued to that ornament slot.
I don't know if it was because i was still relatively new to D2 at the time, but grinding and finally getting a decent Galliard 42-XN7568 filled me with so much pride and joy
ADA, offered us the opportunity to forge weapons from the Golden age, and those weapons were amazing, sexy, all totally different and there was something very special about ADAs area
I got the curated Kindled Orchid. That gun and a 4/5 God roll Blast Furnace were my fav guns from Black Armory. Shit was fun back then.
Nah don’t agree, the Forges kept me playing Destiny back then, the weapons were good and it was still challenging even after they toned it down. Also you could farm specific weapons as well. Give me back the forges and forge weapons crafting as a seasonal activity that’ll get me back to playing this game. That season was the best!
I started in season 10. The thing with the forge was getting the hammerhead. It was reliable as it was strong and helped me get through the rose mission. It might not have been amazing, but in those days, being a lifelong solo player, it made the game so much easier, considering most other options were pretty meh.
Now, we don't have these intermediary missions that helped players get slightly better. it's either be happy with subpar gear or pray you have a good LFG that knows how to complete a raid or trial.
I had to put down destiny for a few seasons because they don't know how to balance the game for the people in between learning the game and day 1 raiders.
I still enjoy the game, but I just wish they knew that not everyone is a part of a regular raid team.
I liked forges and even sundial because it was like a more rewarding public event. I agree with you on the forges though it was grindy as hell to unlock them and them reducing the difficulty is probly why everything we have now scales.
This is coming from someone who has over a 1000 clears of terminal overload the appeal to me is testing out new fun builds in a somewhat challenging activity with others. Its not the most high level gameplay but it gives you a chance to practice things without the added pressure of needing to perform in a strike or raid, more of a chill thing like fishing.
Escalation Protocol was my absolute favourite of these kind of wave based repetitive activities because you got a ramp up in difficulty and a true feeling of the impending doom of failure. It felt like a race. Having them instanced is better for the servers and the players but I think they only struck a balance now with Rivens Lair and the Coil because it gives players the choice between quick one and done or extended but more difficult and rewarding.
They can be daunting for new players to complete like how they nerfed forges and how sundial was rarely ever completed without a certain level of players but when you help out new lights and people trying to grind an event it feels good because you have gotten your loot as well as helped others to get theirs. Just completely random people off the street.
Sometimes you want to brain off and just slay out so these activities are some of my favourite it has just taken them a few attempts to strike a balance.
Compare Prison of Elders to Coil and there is no comparison.
As much as Forge was repetative it was innovation for Bungie. 4 arenas were distinct and required cooperation for a group of randoms and bosses sometimes were hard to kill. And for the rewards - all of the weapons and armor had new models, no reskins, all of the exotics were just amazing and held out for much longer than most of the newer ones. Players won't like doing forges as they were, but the very core of abilities, nevermind their powers, changed. Then, after Forsaken ended it just rolled downhill. Bungie adopted "just enough to not lose too much of angry players" approach. I vividly remember doing season of the splicer event and thinking it was just forges again, but with champions, way easier and way worse. Judging forges by the standard of "how it would play after all of the updates" is a bit disenginious.
My Blast Furnace, my Kindled Orchid, my Hammerhead, and my BB No Feelings still remain in my vault. I don't have too many sunset weapons left - but the ones I have are irreplaceable. My Go Figure will also never leave my vault.
Bungie really just needs to hit us with a refresh for the Black Armory, Sundial, and even the Tangled Shore weapons. But unlike the reprised Reckoning weapons (which I still don't understand)...make them craftable. Let those seasonal weapons live on forever. Current seasonal weapons are craftable, so it only makes sense.
I want my dust rock blues back 😢
I still use Hammerhead in ritual PvP. Are there any up-to-date equivalent machine guns to it?
Season of the forge set a standard. Yes it had it's issues. But the reason why it was so good is the standard it set.
Were the forge missions boring after a while? Sure but I enjoyed doing them though because the weapons looked amazing and I miss my ringing nail. I think Ada-1 should either sell the black armory weapons or make it so we can craft select weapons
To the person that said corridors wasn't worth the juice... you literally find your own grave. Youre looking at your casket, idk how that wasn't worth it imo
PvP during season of the forge was a lot fo fun. Had real reasons to grind.
Not Forgotten
Recluse
Mountain Top
Emblems
Ornaments
Supers and heavy was still a plague.
They are still today though so.
I always wanted weapon transmog specifically because I preferred form over function for my weapons in D2. the BA weapons were almost permanently on my character, and a huge part of the reason I quit the game after they got sunset.
Black Armory was good "Period". I still use season of the forge weapons till this day in crucible.
"At the time" is the big phrase for anything Forsaken. The changes made to the game saved it. The improvements we've had since then have just been building on Forsaken but its always "back in Forsaken"
I have 666 forge completions on my black armory emblem. Would I do it again? I'd go for over 1000. Yeah the activity was easy, but damn was those weapons sexy and the rolls that came on them blew my mind. Pvp was great, the raid was fun, and I would love to get that feeling back
The activity itself definitely got old but god damn do i miss how sexy the weapons looked. The ornaments they had, the forge radiance, and how well they took shaders. I'll always have my hammerhead and blast furnace in the vault.
I had some fun with the Black Armory, but I did get bored with it to. Some of the guns were good. It was worth it for the exotic Toaster. One of the best exotics. It sucks that the Legendary guns got sunsetted like the Mountain Top, Recluse, and a bunch more. Sunsetting them guns was a bunch of BS.
Bungo also had two other studios, Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studio, working with them for Forsaken and the seasons for that year. The level of manpower they had then eclipses what they have now, especially post-layoffs.
The thing about the old content is that it brought things we wanted in the game, Forsaken got rid of double primary, made shotguns not heavy weapons, random rolls (again), and expanded subclasses. Sure the content was boring but so is like 65% of the game the rewards is what everyone is for and the side secret content. Niobe Labs was incredibly difficult at the time and the mission to get the Whisper of the Worm was only accessible through a specific public event. There was secret symbols you can only see through the black armory weapons that would lead to a bunch of people trying to figure is out as well as the codes on the Rasputin computers and the specific music notes that were played lead to other clues about what was happening same thing with the sundial secret that lead to an emblem and I think bastion. But it was so worth it Labs wasn't as much you got an emblem and a shell but it's like getting a flawless dungeon or a Day 1 finished, and the weapons can't be understated some of the best weapons that hold up even now if they weren't sunset were released in Forsaken expansion and the coming seasons. Even some of the weapons were a secret only being side loot from the forge or dropping by a number of specific enemies. But after the sunset everything that was released has been for the sake of balance and monetary gain not for entertainment. They were so scared of power creep only for it to show up again they tune down outliers only for their new content to outclass so you're forced to want to buy. The most fun that I've had on Destiny in a looong time was when the forge turned every gun into a shotgun. It's not a hot take the old shit as well as the new specifically seasonal content is mind numbingly boring just like dares of eternity.
Every single exotic that came out during Black Armory have been some of the most unique and powerful exotics we've ever gotten
black armory had worldline skating, titan skating, amazing black armory weapons, people were still doing last wish for gear and we got another raid right after with scourge, the niobe labs puzzle was still the best community event we've ever had, we got anarchy which is still one of the most iconic exotics in destiny history. really hard to beat black armory, especially since it wasn't even an expansion. Crazy good.
Bungie never stopped giving us difficult puzzles, they're just not as memorable like the quest for wicked implement
The loot was much better for the forge and how you got some of the loot was unique. Using your scopes to see the glyphs. Unique and innovative.
7:14 mountain top was cool. I firmly stand by the sticky grenades on special and heavy launchers. I wish I still had that.
Some people need their opinions stripped away. This guy is one of them
Curated-Chattering Bone (KC+HIR), MovTrgt+Headseeker-Syncopation, HiCal+HeatUp+MKC-Gridskipper... Amongst the best non-exotic pulses I've ever used in PVP. Those 3 have never failed me. Can't wait to Craft a ChatBone. And maybe re-release updated Splicer weapons??
Never once even attempted labs. I was overwhelmed with stuff to do. I didn't even know it was a thing until I heard it was bugged and then I wrote it off. I was Hunting for a blast furnace and hammer head forever. I got the kindled orchid god roll first time with the shader.
I mean, I didn’t sink enough time into black armory due to me being really young, not knowing all the secret exotic nor how to complete their quests, or even getting the obsidian thing for the Ada finale. I did have a really fun time playing forges and especially have a soft spot for the raid. The raid was absolutely awesome and I wish we got more bosses like the giant fallen mechs. Hopefully we get something like that for the witness raid in final shape :)
Just wanted to mention that if Forge & Opulence released on their own in terms of "activity + guns" nowadays, they'd still be considered pretty good seasonal activities. Despite forges being really simple & fast, the loot was worthwhile (even if the state of the game had some *very* grindy quest lines). The raids released during the two seasons elevate the seasons into a league of their own; good activity (w. optional hard mode for menagerie) + distinct weapons w. unique perk/archetype combos + raid drop (also w. some very famous guns). Getting all three of those is RARE in a single content drop is rare, and I'm not even counting the secret missions.
While there is a bit of copium when talking about the black armory and opulence, there is a *lot* good to those drops that is not done nearly as frequently since then.
Black Armory had absolutely the best gun models. Those weapons were so sexy even when they were sunset I still carried them. The only thing that killed off those weapons was sunsetting. Those guns had such a great feel too, the way they fired and reticles. Dang I shouldn’t have deleted those guns 😢.
4:49 and if I'm not mistaken Bungie multiple times made the throwable objects less and less likely to miss. Iirc if you had multiple misses it would just throw the whole activity off. And people complained about it, specifically for the matchmaking.
Much love to that guy and Aztecross.
Aesthetic is almost everything. If it wasn't huge, destiny would have a smaller pool of shaders, sparrows, ghost models, transmat effect, Zero Eververse Shop. Black armory looked beautiful. Which made me grind the forge. So I could have a sexy weapon with sexy perks. Blast furnace, ringing nail, Izangi's burden. Izangi's Burden has a literal sword on the side of it. Le monarque was good and got better. And people still use both that and Jotun in crucible to this days 6 years ago. Every season has downsides, but good golly miss molly, that was a beautiful season
As a Shadowkeep - 30th Anni player, grinding the Menagerie was my favorite farmable activity. I enjoyed that every run was different + I could target farm loot to an extent
I'm more than happy to admit that forges weren't for everyone, but I loved them as they were for me. Rejoined the game when it came to Steam, and I was doing forges all the way up until the day they were vaulted. There was a wonderful loop of working on the first step of the weapon frame quest while completing the forge for the second step of a separate weapon frame. The original Black Armory weapons I poured my passion into hammering will never be deleted, and I still use them to this day where light is synchronized.
Whenever I play a mode with light level turned off I pop on Kindled Orchid with an Aachen, and have more fun with it than I do any other time. For the weapons Black Armory absolutely still hangs, and KO still out competes a lot of other 140s to this day. Even rolls other than Kill Clip + Rampage it just feels great to use Kindled Orchid
I HATED forges, but I grind them all over again if it meant I got Kindled Orchid with a new origin trait
Forge sounds fun, as i think to the different modes in destiny 2 i would love a mode where its just an arena or small scale map where you do something, and the only thing that we have where you dont run endlessly until you finish the activity is Gambit. Every other mode i can think of is where you run around in a linear fashion and just killing enemies doing certain stuff and the running some more.
We got Dares of Eternity, kill some ads, run, kill some ads, run kill some ads and the boss, done.
We got The Coil, Defiant Battlegrounds, Deep Dive, Salvage basicly any of the seasonal stuff we have had, follows basicly the same pattern. You go in you kill some stuff and then you move through the water area, i mean what season of the deep makes no sense why they added a water mechanic just to have it be a timed parkour/traversal tool. If they however took that underwater stuff and made it so you could fight underwater or maybe make an underwater Crucible map....
I feel like with these repeated patterns they are using so much time on developing a long linear map, where i would be fine with smaller maps and something exciting to do.
Gambit is alot of small maps, and its got a little PvP spice in there too, but even if pvp wasent a thing, just moving around the small map to put in the motes and spawn a big 3 phase boss at the end is cool. I dont get why people dont like gambit more, it has that PvP element too which is exciting not knowing how the match is gonna go.
He COMPLETELY bypassed the reason why people are nostalgic about past content.
He focuses on the seasonal activities themselves, not the quality of loot that we earned for the time that was invested.
Black Armory weapons were just amazing. For the time they got introduced they were not only refreshing from a perk (combination) point but also from the design and effects. They weren't just a repainted devils ruin. They sounded different, they had completely unique models, sights/scopes (that 4:3 television scope on the sniper). And lets not forget about the biggest shake up in pve ever: A special weapon dethroning heavy weapons for boss damage. Izanagi is hands down my favourite weapon in the whole game, everything about that weapon is unique. So saying season of the forge was amazing is not correct, since, I agree, the forges were simply boring. But from a flavour point of view: Big W from my side.
Oh, and...We still had things to discover. It wasnt just shoved in the season pass.
Imagine Black Armory Weapons merged with SIVA
I hope they do eventually bring back some of the older weapons especially the black armory set. heck I would also like to see some older activities return with a fresh coat of paint, the menagerie, reworked forges, other seasonal activities, hopefully after final shape they can work on some of those
I've still got my Kindled Orchid and several Blast Furnace rolls as well as Tara's Gaze in my vault 😢
I remember learning 1-5 in binary for outbreaknin d1 😂. And I still have my ringing nail with rampage dragonfly. I still think my faveotie weapon designs are from season of the chosen though. Those are the only set in the game I never put a shader on
He kinda has a point with the nostalgia bug. What really drew us to those points of the game really was a active personal community(friend groups, etc) and game popularity. The reason why things feel bad now is honestly people waking up to the fact that we really have been doing the same thing for multiple years.
He keeps saying "everyone" and using hyperbolic language. He's flat out wrong. Destiny 2 vanilla lost MILLIONS of players within WEEKS. And with every lackluster season, expansion, or activity they regained, then re-lost huge numbers of players.
Several seasons around the time of "Season of the Forge" was when random roles started to be re-introduced into the game and I started hearing about craftible weapons. The seasons surrounding Black Armory was the first time I ever even HEARD about that possibility, and I had NO IDEA what it meant.
It's easy to look back and shit on Bungie for many of those seasons, but Bungie wasn't in control of the game back then either, so ai hope you at least take THAT into account.
My problem with Destiny 2 is that, despite the almost overwhelming amount of content, it still feels like I'm always doing the same activities, and THAT shouldn't be the case. Destiny 2 took away twice as many destinations as they gave us back. Destinations I loved playing. Many of my favorite missions are gone from the game, replaced by uninspired destinations I don't have any attachment to, and don't have much to do with the storyline.
I'm not a gamer. I play Destiny. I've played Destiny from the start. Now I find myself playing the Destiny 1 more and more. If Bungie brought back all of the sunset kissions, like the Black Forge activities, I would play Destiny 2 again.
I WANT MY BLAST FURNACE BACK! That pulse was special
Same bro, my favourite pulse of all time, I still have my god roll in my vault. Nothing and I mean nothing has ever felt or shot as goof or me, in the aggressive pulse archetype.
We need another, a black armory v2 that could be added in the final shape!
Think of it, they could use it as bending the powers of the previous forges and combining them with the darkness classes(even the 3rd one if we get it) and it can be like an open experimental season of insane and deadly perks
That would be absolutely sick to bring back black armory weapons as shapable weapons. Furthermore, the Black Armory, from a lore standpoint, is a totally underutilized asset. It would be cool if the Vanguard or the Drifter has been talking to Ada-1 on the down low, maybe about Strand and the Deepsight Forge on Mars. Who knows what they could come up with?
The reason I think why everyone loved it is because it was like a raid or dungeon encounter, it was all in one area unlike todays seasonal activity it’s, clear this room, run to the next room, and clear this room, run across the room you just came from to go downstairs and I think that’s why forges were better because it was in a central location and kept you alive all the time instead of spending more time walking then actually killing things
As someone with a very good memory I usually just tune out people who want to make the argument "it's not as good as you remember." Very rarely are they going to have anything of value to say considering they couldn't come at the topic from a place of respect.
The thing about black armory - we were coming off a horrible content draught and had very recently been given random rolls back. And those rolls were really good. You have to look at it in the context of its time. We now have so much and power creep has gotten so bad, that nothing feels special anymore. We were motivated to grind those weapons because every roll was new. It was like a new game back then. Now, a new set of weapons comes out, and I generally don't have much reason to grind any of them because I already have something as good or better, till they release some power crept shit like immortal with the same gun model as a gun I already have but some busted ass perk like target lock.
Sunsetting was supposed to fix this but of course it was one of the most hated systems ever. How do you fix a looter shooter when the players already have all the loot? I think cosmetics is the way. We will still grind our asses off for the skimmer or for an emblem or for a shader or effect. but it wont fuck the balance of the game completely. IMO bungie should put most of its resources towards cosmetics, not guns.
Man, it’s been. 6 years?! I still love the forge and its weapons, particularly the auto rifles. I still have a few decent pvp roles but sadly no god rolls, I also have the pulse and the smg still.
To date, I have 236 forge completions. That's specifically speaking about the weapons created. I have more beyond that just for runs. I have said it before, I want forges back cause I may be the only one, but I like the forges.
I think Forges sticking around for longer than their assigned 'season' helped people remember them more fondly than other seasonal activities. Sure, doing the Forges got repetitive fairly quickly, but you could spread all that out over something like 2 years instead of cramming it all into 3-4 months. It certainly made grinding to get the Platinum Starling more bearable for me.
Didn't they "nerf" forges by reducing the overall Power Level entry requirement?? Wasn't it like 540/530 or something day 1 then they reduced it to 510? I don't recall them actually nerfing the difficulty otherwise.
It sounds like he is trying to say that we are wrong and/or stupid if we liked Black Armory. The entire time this guy is talking, he sounds like a person who doesn't like a certain food and is trying to make you feel bad about liking that food. If he didn't like Black Armory, it's okay. A lot of us liked Black Armory. In the end, I get his stance, but they way he delivers it, it is like he is trying to crush your dreams about Black Armory. Don't crush the dreams dude.
Some of the black armory weapons are still being used. The hammerhead is still being used in PvP and in Gambit (if you care about gambit). And No feelings is still a great scout in PVP.
I'm with you Cross. I miss my BA weapons so much. And while it's true that the Forges became repetitive, they were still fun to do, imo. For me, I'm all for Bungie bringing back the Forges (obviously retooled and with variety) and of course those sweet, sweet BA weapons.
I loved grinding the forge. I would get on with my brother and father and we would grind the hell out of them. Chasing iganazi, le monarque, trying to solve puzzles, etc. It was awesome.
Imagine Bungie creating a raid so hard it takes weeks to solve, with them going completely radio silent on hints and clues. An letting the community figure it out themselves. Now that’s something I would absolutely love!
Speaking of exotics, they drop like very frequent now, I have ten engrams on my hunter and warlock now after just decrypting ten on my hunter. They definitely drop more frequently now than back then.
the "puzzles" that he brings up is how raids and endgame content should be in my opinion. more focus on hard puzzles while being able to shred through enemies rather than basically no puzzle and enemies shred you and are lowkey tanky. idk if im in the minority but interesting to see what other think
also it really is insane to think about the amount of content we got during that time. like seriously crazy
This video is proof of the quote: “Nostalgia is truly one of the greatest human weaknesses, second only to the neck.”
Also, and I'm pretty confident I can speak for the majority of Gambit Players here, we want the Gambit Rework back. We want Gambit, The Reckoning, and Gambit Prime to be the Gambit Node again. Most of us never asked for it to be changed like this and we have disliked this change the entire time. There are a few folks who wouldn't like it sure, but most of us want this change.
I'm with you on all points in this one Aztecross. Friends and I were actually excited when we first realized the forges weren't going to be cake walks. Then they got nerfed. Black Armory is hands down my favorite and it has nothing to do with the activity. The weapons, the armor, the lore etc. were just fantastic. The only season I think, and this is my opinion, that came close to me for enjoyment was Season of the Seraph. And again not cause of the activity, but the story, the weapons, the exotic quest was solid, etc.
I remember people were pissed off about that event, both on the side of figuring it out, and then mad at Bungie for unlocking it even after no one figured it out. Bungie invalidated failure because so many people were mad that this one puzzle obscruted so much progress to a few quests, and setting it on a schedule for a release. There were many solo players at the time that were frustrated and the difficulty was meant to have at least 3 players to tag along
I still would love to have new and old BA weapons. Bungie could add red border, and god rolls to Ada. It’d give players more incentive to visit her besides fashion. Bungie could even add a questline that involves rebuilding the Forges, and making them stronger with Neomuni nano tech, with help from Osiris and Quinn. The Quest could end with us getting a new Black Armory exotic, as well as Ada’s area changing to incorporate the Loom, and Forges. House Light Elksni Weavers could handle crafting armor at the Loom, while Ads focused on weapon smithing at the Forges, and occasionally sewing armor at the Loom. We could have god rolls available, while new bounties to gain red border BA weapons could be available. I think, it’d be great. After all, Bungie still has Daito, Crux/Lomar (legendary weapons), MIDA, more Tex Mechanica weapons (outside the Spire dungeon), and Black armory weapons, to add back into the loot pool.
Great spirit of Bungie, I wish they would bring back more Black Armory guns for crafting. Like a free Black Armory 2.0 or something, they literally don't even have to add new weapons, just update all of the old ones and make them craftable, the forge activity doesn't even really need to come back unless bungle wanted to give themselves a reason and tie the update to a season as part of that seasons content.
I am floored that we are getting two of the better Black Armory weapons back through Shaxx's new Brave Arsenal. Also wish that un-sunsetting gear would actually be just that, because it isn't. I still have my old sunset hammerhead and a few other weapons that have come back but those original weapons are still sunset and capped at 1600 light-level, forever collecting dust in the back of my vault.
Everything from the hidden emblem puzzles to the forges to the godly weapons to the raid to the Iz quest to the fact that we still had all the planets back then-
*I can assure you it was actually better than you remember*
"Why do you want your kindled orchid back?" Because it's a void 140 that would go well with my pve builds as I prefer hand cannons to even recluse.
The Blacksmith title is the only title I continue to use to this day. And the way things are going, it will be a long time before I feel strongly about a season to swap it to something else.
It was the puzzle for izangis for me that made it good plus not many knew how to get jotuun. The weapons was pretty dang good. Hammerhead was a beast
Nuh uh
i would like to point out that of the exotics that were added in black armory all of them are very good still (possible exception for jotunn eventho i have a spot in my heart for it) all the weapons and the armor looked good AF and felt good to use, there was also the mountain top/recluse, the raid itself was pretty good and had some really great weapons (at the time) threat level for example
List of expansions and what they are really worth imo (with hindsight):
Curse of Osiris and Warmind = Free lol MSRP =$35 and $20
Forsaken = $30 MSRP =$40
Shadow Keep = $10 (basically a seasonal quest with a raid) MSRP =$35
Beyond Light = $20 MSRP =$40
Witch Queen = $40 MSRP =$40
Light Fall =$25-30 MSRP $40
Lessons learned? Don't ever pre-order or buy the deluxe + additions of the game. Also Bungie has a pricing problem with their product. We as a community need to start comparing Destiny's expansions to other content at the same price point (im looking at you helldivers 2). Seasonal content is well priced at $10 but everything else is out of whack.
You gotta also take into account that alot of the new weapons that rival the black armory weapons are raid and dungeon weapons. Not that those activities aren't fun or anything but they are activities that are long. You gotta remember that we could get a kindled orchid rampage kill clip roll in like 5 to 10 minutes flat with a crap fireteam; where as nation of beasts and zoulis bane take maybe 15 to 20 minutes with a great fireteam. And the forges were matchmade at the time and raids weren't. Now we have in game lfg so it is easier for some lower skill players to be able to get the raid and dungeon weapons bow but at the time lower skill players didn't even touch raids and other high tier activities. So it was nice for lower skill players to be able to get a really amazing weapon really easily. Not that I'm defending them, I am a lower skill player but that's by my own design being that I don't really like to play with other people as much, especially people I don't really know. But it was nice at the time
Imagine if final shape drops and bungie just brings back every activity they ever made into the game again. Some seasons conflicted with eachother in terms of location and in those cases they should pick the most popular one to bring back but outside of that it would be awesome to have it all back again with updated drops and such. A content drought would be highly unlikely at that point because there would just be SO MUCH to do that if we ever got bored we could just go do something different.
I get that things were removed due to the lore and all that, but i say screw the lore. After tfs it can be assumed that we already know what happened in the story, and im sure 90% of people would be willing to overlook it just so they could do those activities again.
Menagerie was absolutely my favorite activity that bungie ever released and i will forever miss it.