The Snow Elves are probably my favorite part of elder scrolls lore. Something about them just fascinates me so much, and I'm really hoping we get a bit more about them in TES6.
It'd be neat if there's enclaves of them in Eastern Hammerfell, maybe they'd be close enough to the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim that it'd make sense for them to cross the border
There’s an Elder Scrolls fanfic I had started where the the plot involves three clans of Snow Elves who had kept themselves hidden in the mountains. Every so often, the clans would exchange members to prevent inbreeding, as well as a few who would disguise themselves and go to cities in High Rock and Hammerfell, seeking supplies, knowledge, and occasionally- marriage partners who would almost exclusively be other elves. But the clans also study the corrupted Falmer and try to cure them of their blindness and integrate them into their clans. I’d have to get back to working on the story to flesh that arc out since the last part I had done was the group finding the lost city of Falinesti on the islands that had originally been part of Yokuda.
I actually did not think about that, but that is actually a very good assumption as Nordic culture's assumption of harmony might be highly different from snow elves who seem to have been a bit more peaceful.
@@ImperialKnowledge Just like the Nord's real life allegory, the Vikings, if they weren't raiding and pillaging you, you were "living harmoniously" with them 😂
Oh. Yeah, that makes sense. I presumed it was less happily braiding one another's hair, more like there was active trade and weren't going out of their way to kill one another on sight even if there was tension.
Yeah I wish Skyrim mods still raided, like I guess it makes sense since they were "civilised" by the imperials but still there should've been at least one group that wanna uphold the old ways
Nah I don't think so. I feel like the snow elves could have easily pushed them out if that was the case. Especially in the early days. I'd like to think they did have a fairly decent relationship.
The thing with the 500 Companions doesn't have to be false. It could very well be, that it was just 500 Companions that followed Ysgramor to Skyrim, and that those 500 just happened to be chieftains, nobles, or individuals of renown, who then followed Ysgramor with their families and retinue.
I always thought that the "500 Companions" sounded a bit lackluster for a continent-invading army, but when you think about it within Skyrim's mechanical framework, where major towns have less than 100 people in them, it's actually pretty terrifying to think about. Can you imagine 500 Nordic warriors charging at you in-game?
I just took it as the 500 warriors being incredibly powerful and too much for the snow elves to handle. And like you said, there was limitations. When I first played Skyrim I wasn't expecting giant realistic cities. I always thought that was a strange complaint.
@@PartovtheFurniture i mean we dont know if the dwemer in hammerfell even knew about what was going on back in morrowind. I get but the ones at red mountain maybe bringing it upon themselves, but their race was fractios and far spred.
@@PartovtheFurniture I mean... we do actually know they were awful. First clue, Elder Scrolls + Elves. Second, Saarthal. They butcherd everyone, men, women, and children. If their goal was the Eye of Magnus, that wasn't necessary. If their goal wasn't the Eye of Magnus, then killing everyone was their goal.
@@scottphillips8607 The Atmoran and by extension, the Nords are culturally warlike and violent. Although we know not for sure, they could be lying about living in peaceful harmony with the Snow elves. Gelebor himself says that they and the atmorans were always at war. Which means that the atmorans were most likely raiding the northern areas of falmer territory and making themselves at feel at home. Falmer retaliated by attacking Sarthal. Either that or he is also lying which I doubt, because of how he described it. We just don't know what really happened.
@Theoneandonly1_02 We also know that there were only a couple of survivors of Saarthal though, so the Falmer most definitely killed everyone they could. If I remember correctly, it is also implied that the Falmer did attack Saarthal unprovoked, which would make sense given how the Nords appear to have been caught completely off guard. There's no evidence in Saarthal that the Nords put up a particularly good fight; if they were constantly raiding, you would think they would have been more prepared. We also have the evidence of all other elves in the setting - arguably the least evil Elder Scrolls elves are the cannibals. I do agree that there is no completely concrete reason given in lore, but all evidence that does exist points to the Nords discovering the Eye of Magnus, which was followed by the Falmer attacking and conquering the city to claim it. Also, one final point, the claims that the Nords provoked the Falmer are made by Elven Scholars, so probably not the most reliable. Same thing as Imperials saying that the Falmer were afraid that the Nords' culture was going to surpass theirs and attacked because of that. The strongest piece of evidence we have is the Eye of Magnus.
@@scottphillips8607 But if we accept the theory that the Snow Elves launched a sneak attack because they wanted to obtain the Magic Eye, then the Nords' revenge against the Snow Elves also lacks moral support, because such a secret action must only be known and carried out by a few Snow Elves, which is equivalent to letting the Snow Elves as a whole bear the guilt of some of the Snow Elves. And considering that the author of "Night of Tears" supports the record that "the Snow Elves and the Nords coexist peacefully", it is equivalent to the Nords' revenge army also slaughtering those Snow Elves who advocate peace with the Nords.
I have a theory that dwemer were the ones pulling the strings, as a plot to remove and enslave their kin to gain more resources and mer power to extract those resources, and that it was the dwemer disguised as snow elves that attack Sarvhall wearing their armour and weapons, and in the heat of the situation Ysgramor may have mistook them as falmer insead of dwemer.
The falmer evolving might be a really scary thing. If they keep improving their combat styles and craft who knows when they will be able to assemble an underground army and invade the surface.
i've always been so intrigued by them and felt really bad about their demise. So much so that fighting one of the presumably last snow elves in the dawn guard quest line felt wrong. i regretted killing him but wished i was able to take something to remember him by you know
Hey zork I’m still working my way up through all the old videos I’ve missed. I think I’m now on lore season 5 just wanted to check in and say hey I hope you’re doing really good man. I remember when the channel 1st got started and I’m so happy that you’ve been able to build up this community thank you for keeping the elder scrolls community going during these long years anyways, I gotta get back to season five. I’ll see you when I catch up.
Snow elves with the dawnguard DLC became one of the better lore additions that came with Skyrim, they along with the Bosmer are the most interesting culture spins on the classic LOTR elves. Every time i get to the forgotten vale i always just take a moment to observe the beautiful architecture along with the heavenly music. Their culture just feels so nice.
Man sometimes U wish the next game will be in the past so we can play those extinct races: sno elf in skyfall ayleid in cyrodiil chimer in resdayn kothringi in blacwood minothor in high isle sloads in summerset dwemer in hammerfell maomer in pyandonea NEDE PEOPLE in tamrieL Patience you must have my young Padawan.
It would be cool if in ES6 you can run into some sort of explorer that works as a researcher or scientist of some sort that has a friend who is a "pale blind Goblin" that speaks broken Cyrodillic. Just as a reference to the Falmer slowly adapting back their intelligence and sociability. It works really well because Hammerfell(the most likely setting for ES6) has many legends about goblins but would have little to no context about the Falmer beyond the fact that they look like goblins with human skintones, so the natives would have basically no reason to know the actual significance.
@@alphacraig2001 No place and nothing at all. The backstory would be that they met in, or moreso under, Skyrim where they became friends and began traveling together. Maybe have the Researcher mention something about having to disguise the Falmer in order to get out of Skyrim or something like that. The Famer is only there because the researcher is there studying old Clan Dworkin Dwemer ruins. If you have to connect the Falmer directly to Hammerfell, then it could be a member of a Falmer tribe that was brought to Hammerfell long ago by the Dworkin Dwemer, who got them as they traveled from Morrrowind and through Skyrim to reach Hammerfell. Perhaps it was outcast by its tribe for its ability to speak and higher intelligence, leading to the Researcher finding it in a ruin and taking it in. Being someone that knows about the Dwemer, the Researcher would be one of the few people in Hammerfell that would grasp the significance of these "pale goblins" and know what they actually are.
Since we came upon the topic of the snow elves would it be possible for you to make a video regarding every single race in the elder scrolls universe? Yes i know that a video of that size of that size would actually take a really long time to make and would be quite quite long but i myself would watch it from beggining to end
It guts me to leave Gelebor alone in the Vale. I really wish Bathesda had given us more options with the Dawnguard. We should have had the option to save Vyrthur. The dialogue exists for it. When he gets to low health, it's like he snaps out of it and begs for forgiveness. That should have been a cue for the option to stop the fight, avoid killing Vyrthur, offer to help him get the cure in exchange for him handing Auriel's Bow over. And I wish they had an additional mission or missions with the Dawnguard to go out and find any remaining snow elves. There is some fan theories that Fort Dawnguard was originally built by the Snow Elves and I believe it. The construction of it was very different. My own theory is that the original Dawnguard were snow elves and that the Jarl of Riften knew they were snow elves. In the course of protecting the Jarl's son, they got turned into vampires themselves and one of those vampires went to the Forgotten Vale with the intent of turning those Snow Elves into Vampires or possibly to get cured and that was how Vyrthur became infected. It would have been an incredible turn of events if after killing Harkon some snow elf or snow elves turned up at the ancient fort and started a quest to bring the race back to Skyrim. Not related to their tragedy, but it would have been a nice option for the Thieves Guild quest line that when we are given the journal that instead of taking it to Calcelmo, that we can take it to Gelebor for translation.
In fact, I think killing Vyrthur might be the right choice, because combined with the language in "The Elder Scrolls: Sun and The Elder Scrolls: Blood", Vyrthu may very well symbolize the possibility of Auri-El's transformation into Molag Bal. And if Gelebor was indeed blessed by Auri-El, then it was obvious that Auri-El would begin to help the snow elves.
What I would like to know is, do we have any records of communication between their society and the other (non Dwemer) elven races on Tamriel? All we ever hear about is how they interacted with the Dwemer and the Atmorans - what about the other elves!?
I have no idea if this is true or not but I remember seeing somewhere that the non corrupted Snow Elves had a different Mer name that wasn’t Falmer and that the “Fal” in Falmer came from the fact that the Snow Elves were a “fallen” race of Mer. I don’t remember what it said their original Mer name was though.
To be fair we know very little of their actual religion, we know a few of their deities but we dont really know about the potential differences in worship. Seems the snow elves are a tad more religious than the Altmer but that could be cherry picking.
@@ImperialKnowledge As far as presented in Dawnguard, their religion is the same pantheon as the Altmer with Auri-El at the center. I wish for an alternative interpretation of Auri-El and Lorkhan, or even more prominence of a different god.
@@ImperialKnowledge It is mentioned multiple times that the Snow Elves venerated Auri-El in particular, even more then the Altmer do as their pantheonic leader. From the words said during their rituals in Touching the Sky, and the descriptions in the Falmer books it seems that they emulated the Ascension of Auri-El as described in the Varieties of Faith and Anuad. The Altmer seem to strive to bring perfection to the mundus through Alaxon, while the Snow Elves seem to prefer ascendence from the mortal realm instead.
@@rosereviews2492 I would say the opposite. Look at the diversity of the Reachmen and Khajiit religious in ESO. Compare that to Skyrim where the Nords worship the Imperial religion and the Snow Elf religion is just a copy and paste of the Altmer religion.
Well, someone toast my sweetroll! I was in Blackreach last night and thought "ooh, before I go and pick up that Dragon Elder Scroll, I will just have a nosy around that building with the bright orange orb and I found that the Falmer have SERVANTS??! Not slaves, not prisoners, not subjects for alchemical ingredients or food for Chaurus - willing servants. Happy to serve the vicious, frightenly ugly Gollum-goblins of Tamriel. Umm, this is blowing my mind a bit. One, if these people were babies stolen from cribs, it raises a HELL of a lot of questions. Like, who raised them, because they are not gibberish-spewing monkey-crawling, hooting loons. They use speech, they know how to work, and they use weapons that they must have been trained to use and they are allowed to keep. The sackcloth they wear wouldn't get them an audience at the Blue Palace, but it isn't Falmer armour. Someone took the time and put in the effort to get them human clothes. IF they are prisoners taken by the Falmer working as slaves, they must have struck a pretty lenient tribe of Falmer because there are no shackles, no calls for help to the Dragonborn, no cages to lock them in and they have weapons! In either case, the Falmer would have needed some communication skills to either raise these relatively well-adjusted people (I know there is an Orc in there - no Dunmer or Altmer though. Interesting) or set them to work. In every other Falmer interaction I have seen with Those Above, things have gone horribly wrong for Those Above - as proved by the dead bodies, human flesh, and significant blood splatter. The Falmer we're accustomed to aren't interested in a cup of tea and a catch-up with what's going on in Skyrim - they just go in for the kill. So what is going on here then? It is doing my head in!!
This telling of snow elf history is frankly just different to the other videos or articles I’ve seen. 10:00 I was under the impression the snow prince battled the 500 companions as an example
I think in terms of information on them they are both pretty obscure, except we know a bit more about what the Snow Elves became, unlike the Sinistral elves who were just completely killed off so their story never continued.
I think it's better to just leave them as a lost background race, it adds to the world and it's more interesting that way. Sort of like how the Dwemer wouldn't have the same mystique if they explained what happened to them
my 2 cents on the snow elves destroying saarthal; the Psijic order (or a proto form of them as i think the order as we know it was established later not sure on the times) was somehow involved. They felt the nords uncovering the eye of magnus, thought it was dangerous and perhaps warned the snow elves about it thus resulting in the snow elves destroying saarthal burying the artifact left to be forgotten. because I think if they really wanted it for themselves they would have actually taken it out of saarthal, no? and why else would the psijics show up outta no where warning the college in the 4th era to not proceed. they know about the thing and might have been keeping tabs on it for thousands of years? spitballing but its my personal headcanon.
That was a theory which I believe got contradicted in the lore. Its been a while since I did the research for this video but I believe that we have a source which claims that that is not true, otherwise I'd have put it in my notes
I'd like to see the Snow Elves come back in some significant way. Maybe in a future game you discover another Enclave hidden from the rest of the world still populated. Wishful thinking I know especially given Bethesda's bad writing these days, but one can hope.
The “Night of Tears” was likely fabricated by the Atmorans, as we know they were notorious for pillaging settlements throughout their homeland and later continued the practice on Tamriel. There’s also confirmation from Gelebor on the ongoing tensions between the Falmer and Atmoran city-states. Not to mention, what reason would the Snow Elves have for sacking Saarthal? If it was for the Eye of Magnus, why didn’t they just take the eye from its position? If they couldn’t, they likely would’ve stationed several guards within and around the ruins of Saarthal. This has fabrication written all over it.
I'm also curious, if the Eye of Magnus was taken away by the Snow Elves, then why didn't the Snow Elves use the Eye to fight against the Nords? If the ancient Nords were warlike and cruel in Altmora, would they become peaceful after arriving in Skyrim?
@@RedCommunistDragon In short, I think the Nords must answer these questions, otherwise they have no right to accuse the Snow Elves of being cruel and evil.
If the Falmer are blind, how could they still raid villages and steal cattle? And how can they, at least in Skyrim, cast spells and fire arrows with such precision.. somewhere, that part of the lore doesn't really hold up.
Exactly!! How do they build those intricate networks of bridges and villages in the Forgotten Vale? There are some pretty powerful potions in Falmer settlements, suggesting that they are skilled alchemists. How does a blind Falmer climb to the top of a mountain to collect birds' eggs? Like you said, they are excellent archers. You do have to be able to *see* to be a marksman!
I think I talked about them pretty extensively in my Aldmeris video a few years ago, considering they are the progenitor race I am not sure how much there is to say beyond their arrival and conquest on the summerset isles, as after that the exodus groups to Tamriel generally get called by their own names (like Chimer, Bosmer, Falmer, Orsimer etc) so idk if I could realistically talk more about them. But I will check whether or not we have had any new Aldmeris lore, if so, a remake is definitely on the cards
I don't believe that all humans originated from Atmora. I stick to the belief that Yokudans (Redguards) originate from Yokuda and Nedes (Imperials and Bretons) originate from Tamriel, while Atmorans (Nords) and giants obviously originate from Atmora. In ESO we can even find Nedic ruins in Craglorn which are burried far far below Nordic ruins, which is proof that they were already there for a long time.
@@VeryScarySmile yes that is what I referred to when I said “humans of hammerfell” rather than use the word “redguard”. Maybe should have been a bit clearer haha. But I have serveral videos covering the topic.
The tragedy of the Snow Elves definitely made me sympathize with them greatly and whilst i do have love for the nords i hate how racist they are. They treat everyone who is different poorly, in a way the nords are no different from the thalmor. Obviously not all nords and high elves are like that but still. Look at how they treat the dark elves and argonians! And yes, the argonians and dark elves have beef with each other but that's a different story all together. Not to mention the Khajit aren't even allowed in the cities. I went on a bit of a rant lol. Apart of me likes to think that the Snow Elves/Falmer can and will reach their former glory again given enough time. After all, Gelebor mentioned seeing an increase in intelligence. It's not out of the realm of possibility. I'd love to see the snow elves become less primal and more or less integrate back into society. The Dwemer are also to blame greatly for the fall of the Snow Elves. They are the reason the Snow Elves became twisted monsters to begin with. I'm glad the Dwemer were wiped out and or disappeared. I hate them immensely.
The fact that the snow elves appear to be regaining their intelligence makes me think of the idea of a mutant falmer that is a sighted Einstein among his/her own kind but is of average intelligence and half-blind by the standards of the civilized people of Tamriel. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." An interesting review on the tragedy of the snow elves. I wonder how they might develop after the events of the Skyrim main quests.
I'm still salty that Bethesda introduced an entire race and culture only for them to be used as a lazy plot device and get shafted for a weak vampire plot. They are by far my favorite race in the game and, sadly, they got the Dwemer treatment: lackluster details and labeling it "mysterious"
@@ImperialKnowledge some say they were cursed after they pissed off a Daedric Prince. Some say they were showered with melted gold after a unfortunate smelting accident. Either way, it is not a tale for those with weak bladders....
I think when talking about the lore of The Elder Scrolls we must avoid racial narratives and collectivist narratives, otherwise it is easy to conclude that a certain "race" is "evil". After all, The Elder Scrolls is not Warhammer 40k. Moreover, if we believe what is said in "Night of Tears", it is clear that the sneak attack on Saarthal was a secret decision made within the Snow Elf army. There must be many Snow Elves who were unaware of the massacre, so it is absolutely impossible to say that those Snow Elves who did not participate are guilty.
I really enjoy your videos and find the information fascinating, however I would beg you to speak slower as with your accent being quite strong it is very difficult to understand you. Even though I try to use subtitles I think you are too fast for them also and make very little sense so don't help. I am constantly having to stop and rewind again and again just to catch all that you are saying, it's extremely frustrating and disappointing as I really want to understand what you are saying. So please please slow down, take a little more time to clearly enunciate your words and let us truly enjoy your information. Many thanks for all the hard work you put in to producing these videos, it is appreciated. 👍🇬🇧
But...they didn't FA, their homeland was invaded. They didn't leave their homes to harm others, their door was kicked in and they were assaulted. At _best_ you could point to Saarthal but I will just point to any human calling an exterminator when they have a termite infestation because that is how the Falmer (and indeed, all Mer) view the Men - as termites - and indeed, that is exactly how the Men behaved - as termites moving in and destroying something better than what they can build.
I have trouble believing that the Dwemer used the Snow Elves for slave labor. I’m not saying I have a better explanation for why they were corrupted into the Falmer, but it just doesn’t make sense to me. The Dwemer have all their constructs that they created that can do what slaves would be used for. The constructs also can’t rebel because, well, they’re constructs. I’m not trying to defend the Dwemer, just don’t know why they’d need slaves. It would make more sense to me if it was all some sick experiment they conducted on the Falmer. If anyone can give me a better explanation or shed some light on some lore that states they enslaved them, I’d happily read it.
what probably happened actual lore truth was that snow elves had nukes and the nords/atmorans didnt have any, so nords set off all the snow elf nukes to go off on snow elf cities, then the fallout killed the atmorans at their homes.
gonna sound like a total ass here but if we are being honest the falmer had it coming i mean before the nords found the eye of magnus things were peaceful the nords were coexisting with the snow elves just fine until almost everyone on sartaal was killed. yes i will say that ysgramor pushed things too far with his revenge but then again put yourself in his shoes everything is fine and dandy your living your best life then suddenly most of your people are eradicated for no reason wouldnt you want to eat the neckvains of every single snow elf you find after something like that ? just be honest. And before anyone says it no i do not have hate against the falmer i quite like them a lot and i wish they could be explored more together with the maormer in a future tes installment all i am saying is that they really dug their own graves
I agree, but as I said in the video. I am kind of doubting some of the sources we have on this. The nords did everything to demonize the snow elves and remove them from history as much they could. So I kind of dont know how much to trust some of the sources. But I mean, its pretty clear they destroyed Saarthal, so they definitely could have expected a revenge. Just wondering what led up to it.
@@ImperialKnowledge i could be mistaken here cause i am NOT an tes expert but wasnt the eye of magnus the whole reason that that the falmer attacked the nords again i could be mistaken i am in no way as knowledgeable as you but this whole time i believed that the eye was the whole reason for the night of tears happening
@@ediosmollai8785 That is the assumption yeah, but even the book on night of tears says that that is a “speculation” so thats why I put the disclaimer. Buuuutttttt its pretty likely it was a big part of the reason
Understandable it probably played as the biggest reason but the only one it's just too bad that we dont know more about them cause least with the maormer we know that they exist we just don't see them as often but snow elves and the dwemer are virtually extinct I would if Bethesda made a game set in the time where the falmer and dwemer were alive so we could see more of them well well just have to wait and see I guess @@ImperialKnowledge
@@ImperialKnowledge Frankly, i am not sure why people are so insistent on excusing the Snow Elves. Theese are not your Tolkien elves, pretty much every single elf nation either enslaved or tried to exteminate humans. Hell humans only exist as a seperate species because old ehlnofey saw them as abberations and mutants when they finally found their way back to Aldmeris. When you read about what Ayleids did to the proto nedes, those horrors would fit right into 40k universe. THere's a bard in ESO that equates humanity with mould. And of course there's also the Thalmor. I really don't know why Snow Elves would buch the thrend. It's just that Nords destroyed so much of their records that we don't really know how awful they may have been so people are free to insert their own ideas, and the one Snow Elf we do meet is a decent chap (although not really because if you are doing the vampire playtrough he's just as eager to help you get the bow as long as you take out his brother in the process, regardless of what that would mean for the rest of the world).
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Sorry for the joke at the beginning, I will see myself out.
Is it possible to learn this humor?
@@_sambo__ Not from a good lore youtuber
The Snow Elves are probably my favorite part of elder scrolls lore. Something about them just fascinates me so much, and I'm really hoping we get a bit more about them in TES6.
It'd be neat if there's enclaves of them in Eastern Hammerfell, maybe they'd be close enough to the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim that it'd make sense for them to cross the border
Same here, their ascetic worship paints a picture of transcendent elves. The Night of Tears stands in stark contrast to this.
There’s an Elder Scrolls fanfic I had started where the the plot involves three clans of Snow Elves who had kept themselves hidden in the mountains. Every so often, the clans would exchange members to prevent inbreeding, as well as a few who would disguise themselves and go to cities in High Rock and Hammerfell, seeking supplies, knowledge, and occasionally- marriage partners who would almost exclusively be other elves.
But the clans also study the corrupted Falmer and try to cure them of their blindness and integrate them into their clans.
I’d have to get back to working on the story to flesh that arc out since the last part I had done was the group finding the lost city of Falinesti on the islands that had originally been part of Yokuda.
I always kind of assume that 'living in harmony' meant the nords were just raiding and looting about, which they considered perfectly normal.
I actually did not think about that, but that is actually a very good assumption as Nordic culture's assumption of harmony might be highly different from snow elves who seem to have been a bit more peaceful.
@@ImperialKnowledge Just like the Nord's real life allegory, the Vikings, if they weren't raiding and pillaging you, you were "living harmoniously" with them 😂
Oh. Yeah, that makes sense. I presumed it was less happily braiding one another's hair, more like there was active trade and weren't going out of their way to kill one another on sight even if there was tension.
Yeah I wish Skyrim mods still raided, like I guess it makes sense since they were "civilised" by the imperials but still there should've been at least one group that wanna uphold the old ways
Nah I don't think so. I feel like the snow elves could have easily pushed them out if that was the case. Especially in the early days. I'd like to think they did have a fairly decent relationship.
The thing with the 500 Companions doesn't have to be false. It could very well be, that it was just 500 Companions that followed Ysgramor to Skyrim, and that those 500 just happened to be chieftains, nobles, or individuals of renown, who then followed Ysgramor with their families and retinue.
I always thought that the "500 Companions" sounded a bit lackluster for a continent-invading army, but when you think about it within Skyrim's mechanical framework, where major towns have less than 100 people in them, it's actually pretty terrifying to think about. Can you imagine 500 Nordic warriors charging at you in-game?
I just took it as the 500 warriors being incredibly powerful and too much for the snow elves to handle. And like you said, there was limitations. When I first played Skyrim I wasn't expecting giant realistic cities. I always thought that was a strange complaint.
I've always felt so sad for Snow Elves. The vanishing of Dwemer you can somewhat understand but the genocide of Snow Elves was truly sad.
@@PartovtheFurniture i mean we dont know if the dwemer in hammerfell even knew about what was going on back in morrowind.
I get but the ones at red mountain maybe bringing it upon themselves, but their race was fractios and far spred.
@@PartovtheFurniture I mean... we do actually know they were awful. First clue, Elder Scrolls + Elves. Second, Saarthal. They butcherd everyone, men, women, and children. If their goal was the Eye of Magnus, that wasn't necessary. If their goal wasn't the Eye of Magnus, then killing everyone was their goal.
@@scottphillips8607 The Atmoran and by extension, the Nords are culturally warlike and violent. Although we know not for sure, they could be lying about living in peaceful harmony with the Snow elves. Gelebor himself says that they and the atmorans were always at war. Which means that the atmorans were most likely raiding the northern areas of falmer territory and making themselves at feel at home. Falmer retaliated by attacking Sarthal. Either that or he is also lying which I doubt, because of how he described it. We just don't know what really happened.
@Theoneandonly1_02 We also know that there were only a couple of survivors of Saarthal though, so the Falmer most definitely killed everyone they could. If I remember correctly, it is also implied that the Falmer did attack Saarthal unprovoked, which would make sense given how the Nords appear to have been caught completely off guard. There's no evidence in Saarthal that the Nords put up a particularly good fight; if they were constantly raiding, you would think they would have been more prepared. We also have the evidence of all other elves in the setting - arguably the least evil Elder Scrolls elves are the cannibals.
I do agree that there is no completely concrete reason given in lore, but all evidence that does exist points to the Nords discovering the Eye of Magnus, which was followed by the Falmer attacking and conquering the city to claim it.
Also, one final point, the claims that the Nords provoked the Falmer are made by Elven Scholars, so probably not the most reliable. Same thing as Imperials saying that the Falmer were afraid that the Nords' culture was going to surpass theirs and attacked because of that. The strongest piece of evidence we have is the Eye of Magnus.
@@scottphillips8607 But if we accept the theory that the Snow Elves launched a sneak attack because they wanted to obtain the Magic Eye, then the Nords' revenge against the Snow Elves also lacks moral support, because such a secret action must only be known and carried out by a few Snow Elves, which is equivalent to letting the Snow Elves as a whole bear the guilt of some of the Snow Elves.
And considering that the author of "Night of Tears" supports the record that "the Snow Elves and the Nords coexist peacefully", it is equivalent to the Nords' revenge army also slaughtering those Snow Elves who advocate peace with the Nords.
Please make a video on the mushrooms, fungi and lichens of Tamriel!💛
you know what, Ysgramor might have butchered the wrong race of mer....dwemer called ancient skyrim home too
I have a theory that dwemer were the ones pulling the strings, as a plot to remove and enslave their kin to gain more resources and mer power to extract those resources, and that it was the dwemer disguised as snow elves that attack Sarvhall wearing their armour and weapons, and in the heat of the situation Ysgramor may have mistook them as falmer insead of dwemer.
The falmer evolving might be a really scary thing. If they keep improving their combat styles and craft who knows when they will be able to assemble an underground army and invade the surface.
maybe in 200 years when tes vii comes out the falmer will be the enemy lol
i've always been so intrigued by them and felt really bad about their demise. So much so that fighting one of the presumably last snow elves in the dawn guard quest line felt wrong. i regretted killing him but wished i was able to take something to remember him by you know
Hey zork I’m still working my way up through all the old videos I’ve missed. I think I’m now on lore season 5 just wanted to check in and say hey I hope you’re doing really good man. I remember when the channel 1st got started and I’m so happy that you’ve been able to build up this community thank you for keeping the elder scrolls community going during these long years anyways, I gotta get back to season five. I’ll see you when I catch up.
Thank you for the nice comment! Hope you enjoy the videos :)
@@ImperialKnowledge I always have my friend.
Snow elves with the dawnguard DLC became one of the better lore additions that came with Skyrim, they along with the Bosmer are the most interesting culture spins on the classic LOTR elves. Every time i get to the forgotten vale i always just take a moment to observe the beautiful architecture along with the heavenly music. Their culture just feels so nice.
Man sometimes I wish the next game will be in the past so we can play those extinct races
Man sometimes U wish
the next game will be in the past
so we can play those extinct races:
sno elf in skyfall
ayleid in cyrodiil
chimer in resdayn
kothringi in blacwood
minothor in high isle
sloads in summerset
dwemer in hammerfell
maomer in pyandonea
NEDE PEOPLE in tamrieL
Patience you must have my young Padawan.
hey man glad you talked about the snow elves
It would be cool if in ES6 you can run into some sort of explorer that works as a researcher or scientist of some sort that has a friend who is a "pale blind Goblin" that speaks broken Cyrodillic. Just as a reference to the Falmer slowly adapting back their intelligence and sociability.
It works really well because Hammerfell(the most likely setting for ES6) has many legends about goblins but would have little to no context about the Falmer beyond the fact that they look like goblins with human skintones, so the natives would have basically no reason to know the actual significance.
As cool as the idea sounds, what place would the Snow Elves have in the vast deserts of Hammerfell?
@@alphacraig2001 No place and nothing at all. The backstory would be that they met in, or moreso under, Skyrim where they became friends and began traveling together. Maybe have the Researcher mention something about having to disguise the Falmer in order to get out of Skyrim or something like that.
The Famer is only there because the researcher is there studying old Clan Dworkin Dwemer ruins.
If you have to connect the Falmer directly to Hammerfell, then it could be a member of a Falmer tribe that was brought to Hammerfell long ago by the Dworkin Dwemer, who got them as they traveled from Morrrowind and through Skyrim to reach Hammerfell. Perhaps it was outcast by its tribe for its ability to speak and higher intelligence, leading to the Researcher finding it in a ruin and taking it in. Being someone that knows about the Dwemer, the Researcher would be one of the few people in Hammerfell that would grasp the significance of these "pale goblins" and know what they actually are.
@@alphacraig2001 id assume that where theres dwemer ruins, theres falmer
Since we came upon the topic of the snow elves would it be possible for you to make a video regarding every single race in the elder scrolls universe? Yes i know that a video of that size of that size would actually take a really long time to make and would be quite quite long but i myself would watch it from beggining to end
I will probably do a compilation at some point as I talked about 70 percent of them or so
Can't wait @@ImperialKnowledge
It guts me to leave Gelebor alone in the Vale. I really wish Bathesda had given us more options with the Dawnguard. We should have had the option to save Vyrthur. The dialogue exists for it. When he gets to low health, it's like he snaps out of it and begs for forgiveness. That should have been a cue for the option to stop the fight, avoid killing Vyrthur, offer to help him get the cure in exchange for him handing Auriel's Bow over. And I wish they had an additional mission or missions with the Dawnguard to go out and find any remaining snow elves. There is some fan theories that Fort Dawnguard was originally built by the Snow Elves and I believe it. The construction of it was very different. My own theory is that the original Dawnguard were snow elves and that the Jarl of Riften knew they were snow elves. In the course of protecting the Jarl's son, they got turned into vampires themselves and one of those vampires went to the Forgotten Vale with the intent of turning those Snow Elves into Vampires or possibly to get cured and that was how Vyrthur became infected. It would have been an incredible turn of events if after killing Harkon some snow elf or snow elves turned up at the ancient fort and started a quest to bring the race back to Skyrim.
Not related to their tragedy, but it would have been a nice option for the Thieves Guild quest line that when we are given the journal that instead of taking it to Calcelmo, that we can take it to Gelebor for translation.
In fact, I think killing Vyrthur might be the right choice, because combined with the language in "The Elder Scrolls: Sun and The Elder Scrolls: Blood", Vyrthu may very well symbolize the possibility of Auri-El's transformation into Molag Bal.
And if Gelebor was indeed blessed by Auri-El, then it was obvious that Auri-El would begin to help the snow elves.
What I would like to know is, do we have any records of communication between their society and the other (non Dwemer) elven races on Tamriel?
All we ever hear about is how they interacted with the Dwemer and the Atmorans - what about the other elves!?
I love the snow elves for some reason they were so beautiful
Like a white stag but in people form lol 😂
I have no idea if this is true or not but I remember seeing somewhere that the non corrupted Snow Elves had a different Mer name that wasn’t Falmer and that the “Fal” in Falmer came from the fact that the Snow Elves were a “fallen” race of Mer. I don’t remember what it said their original Mer name was though.
I remember reading something like that as well. Can't remember where exactly but I'm certain it was a book.
that wouldnt make much sense since "fal" means cold in ayleidoon
ESO needs to expand upon how their religion differs from the Altmer because so far, it is the same.
To be fair we know very little of their actual religion, we know a few of their deities but we dont really know about the potential differences in worship. Seems the snow elves are a tad more religious than the Altmer but that could be cherry picking.
@@ImperialKnowledge
As far as presented in Dawnguard, their religion is the same pantheon as the Altmer with Auri-El at the center. I wish for an alternative interpretation of Auri-El and Lorkhan, or even more prominence of a different god.
@@ImperialKnowledge It is mentioned multiple times that the Snow Elves venerated Auri-El in particular, even more then the Altmer do as their pantheonic leader. From the words said during their rituals in Touching the Sky, and the descriptions in the Falmer books it seems that they emulated the Ascension of Auri-El as described in the Varieties of Faith and Anuad.
The Altmer seem to strive to bring perfection to the mundus through Alaxon, while the Snow Elves seem to prefer ascendence from the mortal realm instead.
ESO is so simplified😒
@@rosereviews2492
I would say the opposite. Look at the diversity of the Reachmen and Khajiit religious in ESO. Compare that to Skyrim where the Nords worship the Imperial religion and the Snow Elf religion is just a copy and paste of the Altmer religion.
Well, someone toast my sweetroll!
I was in Blackreach last night and thought "ooh, before I go and pick up that Dragon Elder Scroll, I will just have a nosy around that building with the bright orange orb and I found that the Falmer have SERVANTS??!
Not slaves, not prisoners, not subjects for alchemical ingredients or food for Chaurus - willing servants. Happy to serve the vicious, frightenly ugly Gollum-goblins of Tamriel.
Umm, this is blowing my mind a bit.
One, if these people were babies stolen from cribs, it raises a HELL of a lot of questions. Like, who raised them, because they are not gibberish-spewing monkey-crawling, hooting loons. They use speech, they know how to work, and they use weapons that they must have been trained to use and they are allowed to keep. The sackcloth they wear wouldn't get them an audience at the Blue Palace, but it isn't Falmer armour. Someone took the time and put in the effort to get them human clothes.
IF they are prisoners taken by the Falmer working as slaves, they must have struck a pretty lenient tribe of Falmer because there are no shackles, no calls for help to the Dragonborn, no cages to lock them in and they have weapons!
In either case, the Falmer would have needed some communication skills to either raise these relatively well-adjusted people (I know there is an Orc in there - no Dunmer or Altmer though. Interesting) or set them to work. In every other Falmer interaction I have seen with Those Above, things have gone horribly wrong for Those Above - as proved by the dead bodies, human flesh, and significant blood splatter. The Falmer we're accustomed to aren't interested in a cup of tea and a catch-up with what's going on in Skyrim - they just go in for the kill.
So what is going on here then? It is doing my head in!!
THE SNOW ELF VIDEO AS PROMISED YOU ARE A LEGEND
I love snow elfs so much I hope we see more in Tes6 but we all know thats not gonna happen
This telling of snow elf history is frankly just different to the other videos or articles I’ve seen.
10:00 I was under the impression the snow prince battled the 500 companions as an example
Sad so many things go extinct in Elderscrolls
technically, they are the sinistral elf that are more mysterious, for we know nothing about them
I think in terms of information on them they are both pretty obscure, except we know a bit more about what the Snow Elves became, unlike the Sinistral elves who were just completely killed off so their story never continued.
Wait, this isnt Darth Plageus the Wise
Seeing the Falmer emerge as a new "Beast race" in a newer Elder Scrolls game would be really cool
I think it's better to just leave them as a lost background race, it adds to the world and it's more interesting that way. Sort of like how the Dwemer wouldn't have the same mystique if they explained what happened to them
my 2 cents on the snow elves destroying saarthal; the Psijic order (or a proto form of them as i think the order as we know it was established later not sure on the times) was somehow involved. They felt the nords uncovering the eye of magnus, thought it was dangerous and perhaps warned the snow elves about it thus resulting in the snow elves destroying saarthal burying the artifact left to be forgotten. because I think if they really wanted it for themselves they would have actually taken it out of saarthal, no? and why else would the psijics show up outta no where warning the college in the 4th era to not proceed. they know about the thing and might have been keeping tabs on it for thousands of years? spitballing but its my personal headcanon.
Great video, truly interesting!
I remember seeing some text from Morrowind that stated Reiklings were descended from the Snow Elves. Does anyone know of this?
That was a theory which I believe got contradicted in the lore. Its been a while since I did the research for this video but I believe that we have a source which claims that that is not true, otherwise I'd have put it in my notes
My personal favorite species of the the elder scrolls.
Great video!
New video 🎉, I love your lore videos.
I'd like to see the Snow Elves come back in some significant way. Maybe in a future game you discover another Enclave hidden from the rest of the world still populated. Wishful thinking I know especially given Bethesda's bad writing these days, but one can hope.
The snow elves are very much like elves in tes. Kinda, they were twisted into hideous creatures that live in Dwarven ruins.
The “Night of Tears” was likely fabricated by the Atmorans, as we know they were notorious for pillaging settlements throughout their homeland and later continued the practice on Tamriel. There’s also confirmation from Gelebor on the ongoing tensions between the Falmer and Atmoran city-states.
Not to mention, what reason would the Snow Elves have for sacking Saarthal? If it was for the Eye of Magnus, why didn’t they just take the eye from its position? If they couldn’t, they likely would’ve stationed several guards within and around the ruins of Saarthal. This has fabrication written all over it.
I'm also curious, if the Eye of Magnus was taken away by the Snow Elves, then why didn't the Snow Elves use the Eye to fight against the Nords?
If the ancient Nords were warlike and cruel in Altmora, would they become peaceful after arriving in Skyrim?
@@DawnovertheWhiteSea Good question. Seems like the Nords are trying to cover up something.
@@RedCommunistDragon In short, I think the Nords must answer these questions, otherwise they have no right to accuse the Snow Elves of being cruel and evil.
@@DawnovertheWhiteSea Likely not. It takes a lot more than a voyage to be… humbled, I guess you could say.
@@DawnovertheWhiteSea Indeed.
I hope the Falmer evolve in TES VI and can stop being goblins full of hate
No
@@A9hl6fgx5ebisb72op Yes 🫡
Why not? @@A9hl6fgx5ebisb72op
If the Falmer are blind, how could they still raid villages and steal cattle? And how can they, at least in Skyrim, cast spells and fire arrows with such precision.. somewhere, that part of the lore doesn't really hold up.
Exactly!! How do they build those intricate networks of bridges and villages in the Forgotten Vale? There are some pretty powerful potions in Falmer settlements, suggesting that they are skilled alchemists. How does a blind Falmer climb to the top of a mountain to collect birds' eggs? Like you said, they are excellent archers. You do have to be able to *see* to be a marksman!
@@cathdodd5072 They have extermely good hearing and sense of touch, so in lightless environments they thrive.
What was a little nord girl doing in Solsteim during a war?
Was there a Nord colony or something?
I sense your doing videos on elves, can you do one on aldmer
I think I talked about them pretty extensively in my Aldmeris video a few years ago, considering they are the progenitor race I am not sure how much there is to say beyond their arrival and conquest on the summerset isles, as after that the exodus groups to Tamriel generally get called by their own names (like Chimer, Bosmer, Falmer, Orsimer etc) so idk if I could realistically talk more about them. But I will check whether or not we have had any new Aldmeris lore, if so, a remake is definitely on the cards
@@ImperialKnowledge good I’ll need more information so I can be more racist effectively towards all elves
Nice
I don't believe that all humans originated from Atmora.
I stick to the belief that Yokudans (Redguards) originate from Yokuda and Nedes (Imperials and Bretons) originate from Tamriel, while Atmorans (Nords) and giants obviously originate from Atmora.
In ESO we can even find Nedic ruins in Craglorn which are burried far far below Nordic ruins, which is proof that they were already there for a long time.
@@VeryScarySmile yes that is what I referred to when I said “humans of hammerfell” rather than use the word “redguard”. Maybe should have been a bit clearer haha. But I have serveral videos covering the topic.
Ain't no way they lost in the end to a little girl I'd run too if that happened
The tragedy of the Snow Elves definitely made me sympathize with them greatly and whilst i do have love for the nords i hate how racist they are. They treat everyone who is different poorly, in a way the nords are no different from the thalmor. Obviously not all nords and high elves are like that but still. Look at how they treat the dark elves and argonians! And yes, the argonians and dark elves have beef with each other but that's a different story all together. Not to mention the Khajit aren't even allowed in the cities. I went on a bit of a rant lol. Apart of me likes to think that the Snow Elves/Falmer can and will reach their former glory again given enough time. After all, Gelebor mentioned seeing an increase in intelligence. It's not out of the realm of possibility. I'd love to see the snow elves become less primal and more or less integrate back into society. The Dwemer are also to blame greatly for the fall of the Snow Elves. They are the reason the Snow Elves became twisted monsters to begin with. I'm glad the Dwemer were wiped out and or disappeared. I hate them immensely.
🍷❄️
Babe wake up Imperial Knowledge posted another video
The fact that the snow elves appear to be regaining their intelligence makes me think of the idea of a mutant falmer that is a sighted Einstein among his/her own kind but is of average intelligence and half-blind by the standards of the civilized people of Tamriel.
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
An interesting review on the tragedy of the snow elves. I wonder how they might develop after the events of the Skyrim main quests.
I'm still salty that Bethesda introduced an entire race and culture only for them to be used as a lazy plot device and get shafted for a weak vampire plot. They are by far my favorite race in the game and, sadly, they got the Dwemer treatment: lackluster details and labeling it "mysterious"
Have you heard the tragic story of the Yellow Snow Elves? You don't want to know how their skin changed color....
It's not a story the Aldmer would tell you
jesus christ
@@ImperialKnowledge some say they were cursed after they pissed off a Daedric Prince. Some say they were showered with melted gold after a unfortunate smelting accident. Either way, it is not a tale for those with weak bladders....
I think when talking about the lore of The Elder Scrolls we must avoid racial narratives and collectivist narratives, otherwise it is easy to conclude that a certain "race" is "evil". After all, The Elder Scrolls is not Warhammer 40k.
Moreover, if we believe what is said in "Night of Tears", it is clear that the sneak attack on Saarthal was a secret decision made within the Snow Elf army. There must be many Snow Elves who were unaware of the massacre, so it is absolutely impossible to say that those Snow Elves who did not participate are guilty.
I really enjoy your videos and find the information fascinating, however I would beg you to speak slower as with your accent being quite strong it is very difficult to understand you. Even though I try to use subtitles I think you are too fast for them also and make very little sense so don't help. I am constantly having to stop and rewind again and again just to catch all that you are saying, it's extremely frustrating and disappointing as I really want to understand what you are saying. So please please slow down, take a little more time to clearly enunciate your words and let us truly enjoy your information. Many thanks for all the hard work you put in to producing these videos, it is appreciated. 👍🇬🇧
The snow elves are the Elder Scrolls equivalent to FAFO. They found out.
But...they didn't FA, their homeland was invaded. They didn't leave their homes to harm others, their door was kicked in and they were assaulted.
At _best_ you could point to Saarthal but I will just point to any human calling an exterminator when they have a termite infestation because that is how the Falmer (and indeed, all Mer) view the Men - as termites - and indeed, that is exactly how the Men behaved - as termites moving in and destroying something better than what they can build.
I have trouble believing that the Dwemer used the Snow Elves for slave labor. I’m not saying I have a better explanation for why they were corrupted into the Falmer, but it just doesn’t make sense to me. The Dwemer have all their constructs that they created that can do what slaves would be used for. The constructs also can’t rebel because, well, they’re constructs. I’m not trying to defend the Dwemer, just don’t know why they’d need slaves. It would make more sense to me if it was all some sick experiment they conducted on the Falmer. If anyone can give me a better explanation or shed some light on some lore that states they enslaved them, I’d happily read it.
There’s torture rooms in Dwemer ruins actually
Tragic?!?! those treacherous snowy knife ears got what was coming to them!
Thank you
what probably happened actual lore truth was that snow elves had nukes and the nords/atmorans didnt have any, so nords set off all the snow elf nukes to go off on snow elf cities, then the fallout killed the atmorans at their homes.
gonna sound like a total ass here but if we are being honest the falmer had it coming i mean before the nords found the eye of magnus things were peaceful the nords were coexisting with the snow elves just fine until almost everyone on sartaal was killed. yes i will say that ysgramor pushed things too far with his revenge but then again put yourself in his shoes everything is fine and dandy your living your best life then suddenly most of your people are eradicated for no reason wouldnt you want to eat the neckvains of every single snow elf you find after something like that ? just be honest.
And before anyone says it no i do not have hate against the falmer i quite like them a lot and i wish they could be explored more together with the maormer in a future tes installment all i am saying is that they really dug their own graves
I agree, but as I said in the video. I am kind of doubting some of the sources we have on this. The nords did everything to demonize the snow elves and remove them from history as much they could. So I kind of dont know how much to trust some of the sources. But I mean, its pretty clear they destroyed Saarthal, so they definitely could have expected a revenge. Just wondering what led up to it.
@@ImperialKnowledge i could be mistaken here cause i am NOT an tes expert but wasnt the eye of magnus the whole reason that that the falmer attacked the nords again i could be mistaken i am in no way as knowledgeable as you but this whole time i believed that the eye was the whole reason for the night of tears happening
@@ediosmollai8785 That is the assumption yeah, but even the book on night of tears says that that is a “speculation” so thats why I put the disclaimer. Buuuutttttt its pretty likely it was a big part of the reason
Understandable it probably played as the biggest reason but the only one it's just too bad that we dont know more about them cause least with the maormer we know that they exist we just don't see them as often but snow elves and the dwemer are virtually extinct I would if Bethesda made a game set in the time where the falmer and dwemer were alive so we could see more of them well well just have to wait and see I guess @@ImperialKnowledge
@@ImperialKnowledge Frankly, i am not sure why people are so insistent on excusing the Snow Elves. Theese are not your Tolkien elves, pretty much every single elf nation either enslaved or tried to exteminate humans. Hell humans only exist as a seperate species because old ehlnofey saw them as abberations and mutants when they finally found their way back to Aldmeris.
When you read about what Ayleids did to the proto nedes, those horrors would fit right into 40k universe. THere's a bard in ESO that equates humanity with mould. And of course there's also the Thalmor.
I really don't know why Snow Elves would buch the thrend. It's just that Nords destroyed so much of their records that we don't really know how awful they may have been so people are free to insert their own ideas, and the one Snow Elf we do meet is a decent chap (although not really because if you are doing the vampire playtrough he's just as eager to help you get the bow as long as you take out his brother in the process, regardless of what that would mean for the rest of the world).
Tragic? Nah. They got what they deserved
You don't know that
They deserved ot.
THEY DESERVED THEIR FATE!!!!!