I am so sorry for the (almost) month without videos, I had a lot of things going on. But I have returned, and I have some plans for some very interesting videos!
this is a wonderful video, did you make one about the lore of the Nords before the TES;V retcon? back when the thu'um was the power of Kyne and almost everyone was a warrior poet.
I developed my own theory: To my understanding, it's stated in the Lore, that the modern day Giants and Nords come from the same ancestors, and at some point for some reason split, with the Giants staying big but getting dumber, while the Nords stayed smarter but became smaller. Furthermore, there is the story, that the Dwemer are called dwarves, despite being of similar height as the other races, because the atmoran settlers were so tall that the Dwemer were dwarves to them. And then there's an Image of an atmoran, that shows them to be as tall as a mountain (I can't remember if that was official art, though I think it was). Therefore, I came to theorize, that the atmorans had a far less uniform morphology, similar to the Khajiit. That they were/are similar to Giants in norse mythology or how the Jotun people are portrayed in the God of War games: they are one people, but just as Khajiit morphology has this enormous spectrum, the atmorans could range from ~ 7 ft./2,10 m to the size of a mountain. That could also explain the exodus. The smaller ones couldn't withstand the cold as much, so they left for Tamriel, while the bigger ones could retain heat easier, similar to whales. So it could be quite possible, that Atmora is still inhabited, just by the more titanic sized individuals. Maybe with smaller ones like the sea giants living closer to the coasts, where it's a bit warmer, only to raid tamrielic settlements in particularly cold periods, and the closer you get to the heart of the continent, the bigger its inhabitants get.
@@Graf-Fischgen-von-Fischgesicht oh its true... the old leader of the skaal was a giant ... Frea even tells us this, because she knew him.. and the beliefs of the skaal bears strong influence from atmora... even if it might not be the original form...the symbols of the giants are atmoran.. and specifically the frost /ice giants has a particularly nasty history with the atmorans and the nords of skyrim ;)
That axplains the values held by Nords, the Sea Giants look Nordier than Nords. Also the theory explains the reason why no one builds at the edge of the map in Skyrim beyond the Jerall Mountains. (unless i missed something because i remember i was specifically looking for it more than a decade ago when i played it) I remember a troll and maybe the last buildings somewhere around a pass, no buildings beyond that. It also makes me wonder if Skyrim Giants weren't hunted to extinction (despite their often harmful nature)specifically so that it would remain as a constant reminder for the Nords about their old legends. It would be a pretty cheesy plot twist but imagine what sort of game could be made next if it turned out the Dwemers didn't disappear but were teleported to Atmora and are currently fighting for survival against the biggest Giants? That would be too much like AoT though, it would also break the mythical aspect of the game which is what makes it interesting. On a second thought the three big cities to the North close to the sea could definitely be raided (really forgot about that map), i'm talking about smaller ones-maybe the big ones feel too safe? There would be notes and books writing about it if this happened in Winterhold, Dawnstar or Solitude which i don't remember so that sort of lore don't yet exist unless someone like the Thalmor wanted to cover it up to make the next attack more unexpected and thus hurt more which is too far-fetched even for the ES world. Not to mention the Thalmor influence in Skyrim was way too recent and there would be some scholars still remembering the content of these books though maybe not ones you ever meet in the game. Or these ones just weren't weren't attacked for some reason, on one hand they are prime targets on the other the Sea Giants might play it sneaky to avoid raising attention to themselves. For Sea Giants it would make the most sense to raid for items like scrolls to obtain magical power, it wouldn't feel like an ES explanation to say they raided for ordinary things like food just like vikings irl.. (also Nords would just get bored and start buildings elsewhere if their cities were destroyed over and over which would render the limited Sea Giants entirely impotent) The Elder Scrolls world is more...grandiose?...fantasy? than that and i think the Sea Giants would fit a sort of legendary warrior-demigodlike archetype in this world. One explanation could be that they raid trying to find the Oghma Infinium which as i remember was at the Northern side of the map? Some island or somewhere near the shore in a shipwreck iirc..
I believe that the Ehlnofey were more flexible in their forms during the Dawn Era. Just look at the creation myths of the Khajiit and Bosmer to see how they were shaped from the ooze. While the Wandering Ehlnofey forms were still flexible before the Earthbones created the rules of nature, the proto-men likely split into Atmorans, Giants, Nedes, etc. The Animal Totems of the Atmoran pantheon could be left over from when the Ehlnofey could choose their forms like the Daedric Princes. The greatest spirits choose certain animal forms until all men took humanoid forms.
Some texts also suggest that Atmora was originally held by the Old Elnofey (Ancestors of Elves) but lost to Wandering Elnofey (Ancestors of Men) during the Wars after creation. The Wandering Elnofey could therefore still have remained in other parts of the world after the wars, though scattered into the tribes that were ultimately enslaved by the Elves.
The Nords say they were formed by Kyne's breath onto "The Throat of the World" and spread among the land. Altmer say Atmora was an old ehlnofey kingdom called Altmora which was conquered by men. Very interesting how these stories almost perfectly corroborate each other, could also explain how dragons became so prominent if it was a former old ehlnofey dominion
Theres actually numerous cultures in the neolithic that were able to form sedentary societies without agriculture, so it isnt entirely impossible the atmorans developed a high culture without necessarily needing to farm
Yeah, but building such big boats to sail across the sea of ghosts, forging weapons like the axe/shield of Ysgramor and building a huge underground city at saarthal suggests a level of societal progress that's extremely unlikely to have happened without agriculture. There's a reason why Gobekli Tepe is (afaik) the only megalithic structure we know to have been built by hunter gatherers.
@@bruhhhjohnson you might want to look at the Saalish and Tlingit and Haida. they had entire sedentary-societies complex ones too based around fishing and hunting and gathering and they made some pretty impressive war canoes even ones with sails supposedly. especially look at the Haida as they have often been compared to the vikings. the haida are also known for having copper and even meteoric iron daggers(plus daggers made from metal they took from european shipwrecks and forged into their own style)
It's not really complicated. The Wandering Elnofey are named so for a reason. Unlike the Old Elnofey who stayed in one location and eventually evolved into the first Elves, the Wandering Elnofey wandered the world and settled in varius different locations, eventually evolving into the first Humans. So it's not that big of a stretch that some settled in Atmora.
The Elder Scrolls 7: Frostfall Todd Howard: "So basically it's set in the 3rd era in Atmora. It's a vast wasteland with with no NPCs and even if they look the same like all the places there. Also you can do nothing there and if you complain you just don't get the game! Modders go! Make us some money!"
Skyrim 2 Atmora You are a deck hand on a ship destined for Atmora, a great expedition has been sent north to discover the true fate of the northern continent, is it truly a barren wasteland of ice or does life still linger behind the frozen vale? Your ship has been separated from the main fleet and has wrecked on Atmoras shores, will you find your way back to the main expedition force or will you become another soul claimed by the frost fall? This could actually be a pretty cool game
Alduin was made with the sole role of eating the universe and starting new kalpas. New versions of reality. So does that mean that the first time he appeared in this kalpa, he was supposed to eat the world, but he liked humanity worshipping him so he didn't do it? That's more or less what Paarthurnax says happened. What does that mean for the current kalpa? How old is it really? I hardly think Alduin was supposed to eat a kalpa that basically just started.
I like to believe that some snow elves fled from solstheim to Atmora with the last battle between them and the nords simply being a distraction to allow the civilians to escape. Imagine the irony that would be that the Nords fled the continent to escape the cold where as the snow elves fled to the continent with it being the only place the Nords couldn’t reach them. I think the snow elves would fair quite well considering their superior frost resistance and advanced magics allowing them to alter the weather within isolated areas on Atmora with said magic to make it more livable even if just a little.
I've had this idea as well, tbh. I hope it's some we could find to be true. I doubt it but, I'd love to see it. Maybe use this as an idea for why the last Atmoran ship that arrived in Skyrim came with such despair. The Snow Elves maybe decided they had the defenses and numbers to kick off the few remaining Nords from their new home The Snow Elves take Atmora, and rename it Altmora, it's original name before Lorkhan and humans took it
To me, it makes more sense to think the proto-nords fled to Atmora from Skyrim after they lost the Ehlnofey War. The winning Old Ehlnofey in Skyrim became the Falmer. Tales of defeating the elves on Atmora was likely bluster after the Wandering Ehlnofey lost to the Old Ehlnofey.
That could be interesting if their someway alive in Atmora especially since we now there's hidden bastion of snow elf around northern tamriel then the possibility of them fleeing towards Atmora and roscrea There's a high chance which also they might have evolved a lot as a race so their current appearance is a lot different
I've always had this theory that the frostfall was actually caused by stalhrim and its always creeping south eventually it'll be a existential threat to the world and it'll have something to do with a curse or perhaps the magnus portal (the sun) is fading or something like that
A few friends and I believe that there was a war and that the Eye of Magnus was used by one of the dragon priests and thus ruined the continent into an ice age. After that they sense moved to skyrim where later on in time the dragon priest it self was then contained in Labyrinthian separated from the eye so that it may never be used as a weapon again.
With so many lost ancestral continents, I've always felt that they could actually be other worlds, but mythologized by each group. Maybe you get an event akin to the Conjunction of the Spheres, where some connections (like to the worlds of Aldmeris and Yokuda) were very short lived and are now totally inaccessible, while a closer world like Atmora has access open and close regularly, allowing Nedes and Nords to slip through at differenent times and places, and sometimes to return without particular effort. This would also reframe what happened to the Dwemer, who were the only group advanced enough to understand what really happened, and thus would really just be looking for a power source large enough to send them back home.
My headcanon is that while Atmorans worshipped the dragons before their migration to Skyrim, the dragons themselves didn't really care much about them. It was only during the Snow Elf War that the Dovah realized "huh these humans are pretty strong AND they're ALREADY WORSHIPPING US!" and decided to finally respond and established a more "official" Dragon Cult. This would explain then sudden shift in how the dragon priests ruled, as now they were actually taking orders from dragons. This would also explain how the costume visible on the ESO render at 6:00 changed to a more standardized priest uniform that we know from Skyrim. The Atmoran masks probably were also purely ceremonial and only the new ones created in Skyrim had powers.
eehm i don't see where you got that from, they were not created in skyrim? you go back to the time of their golden era to get the mask Konahrik in skyrim... its name it means Warlord and was never given to anyone ;) but the masks themselves were made in the era of the mer... aka the MERITHIC era probably in the land of the dragon cults origin... long before what happened in skyrim ;)
dragons are “the children of Akatosh ” and “were indigenous to the continent of Akavir” but fled to Tamriel after running into trouble with the serpentine race Tsaesci.
@@Marvinuser First of all, it's never explicitly stated whether or not Konahrik was worn. There isn't enough context at its shrine - which is located in the city of Bromjunaar, Skyrim - to know its owner or purpose. The migration from Atmora happened primarily in the Merethic Era and so did the entirety of the Dragon Cult's rule in Skyrim. I never went beyond that era in my comment, whenever I refernced Skyrim I meant Skyrim the location, not Skyrim the game, as I assume that's what confused you about my comment. It's never stated how the masks came to be either, but there's a design shift in them, mainly evident through cosmetic items in ESO: The Frostbane Dragon Priest costume, visible in this video at 6:00 is strongly implied to have been the Dragon Priest attire used in Atmora, and it's distinctly different than the usual Dragon Priest clothing as seen in TESV and ESO. So the style of their clothing seems to have changed over the course of the migration - it could have been due to a change within the cult itself, as suggested by me above, or it could have been simply caused by Skyrim's warmer climate making the thick fur coat an overkill. Either way, the clothing style has changed, which would mean that the new uniforms were created in Skyrim. In ESO, there's also the Archaic Dragon Priest Mask, a cosmetic drop from the Scalecaller Crates, which could be (and that's purely my speculation based on its description and design) a transistory style, used in between the Atmoran and Tamriellic styles. And, I repeat, all of that did happen during the Merethic Era, and I've never stated that it didn't.
@@Marvinuser The lore regarding dragons in Akavir is fairly vague (as anything related to Akavir, really), and there are conflicting accounts of them originating in either Atmora or Akavir. That doesn't seem to matter as far as the Atmora-Skyrim Cult is concerned, as there isn't any record of a dragon-worshipping culture in Akavir
I was actually working on that a while ago, but I havent really found enough for it to be a proper lore video rather than just a summary of the ones that we know of. But i'll prob pick up the topic again at some point.
I'm a newer member of your community. You have the best layout for lore out of any channel I've watched. There's so much I'm still working through, but I've been binge watching. You make awesome content and the visuals are nice.
@@neasper just read it, its super interesting. Especially the last part where they kind of sow doubt about it being the snow elves, but still, this is a very interesting suggestion and I may make a short video on it soon. Thanks for bringing it to my attention 😄
This was absolutely a subject I was looking forward to you covering, and I do like your speculations on it as well! Thanks for another interesting video :)
Wow I'm deep in the lore but the first I'm hearing of this place. This is why I love you! You cover everything literally don't leave a thing out about the Elder Scrolls world
Really wish there was a mod for this place. Seems like such a great place to have the final battle against Alduin, but nah we gotta go to Socengarde... For some reason lmao
The nord creation myth says they were "breathed" onto the Throat of the World by Kyne, which contradicts the Atmoran settlers thing. I heard a proposed synthesis of the two origins, that Kyne created the atmorans to aid the wandering ehlnofey in the Ehlnofey War and the atmorans settled on the northern coast of Tamriel before it broke off and ended up becoming Atmora in the far north. That puts nedes on both Atmora and Tamriel after the War and allows the atmorans to travel south and colonize Skyrim
I personally like to think that not everyone on atmora worshiped the dragons as gods, some might have seen them as powerful and terrible demons to be wary of. The reason I believe this is that if shor created humans to help him in the war against the elves, it wouldn’t make sense for all of them to start worshipping his enemies. Even if they forgot many things, that belief should have stayed to some extent. So I think the dragon cult was a doomsday cult that soon was mixed with the animal worship after the dragons came to rule.I believe this is why there were so many wars on the continent, they are constantly fighting each other because the dragon priests wanted more power and because the other peoples were fighting crusades against the wing demons that wanted to rule them
Well done video But I disagree with the theory of nedes coming from atmora Their culture and sistem of believe tradition and religions are too wildly different from atmora and their closest kin The nords and the skaal If an entire species of man (the redguard originate from a different. Continent (yokuda) I don’t see why the nedes cannot be the indigenous race of men of Tamriel
Because I speculate that the Kothringi humans (which are wildly different, just like the redguards) are likely the native humans to Tamriel. But I could be wrong ofc
@@ImperialKnowledgethanks for the answer I see your arguments and they can be pretty compelling and well exposed Yet I cannot overcome the evidence in front of my eyes about early nedes Just look at the reachmen and their wild difference with the nords and Bretons Or look at games set in early ages or with a lot of reference to times where the nedes where still a distinct people names of people, gods cultural institutions That by the way are also wildly different from redguards I think that the more reasonable answer is that the nedes are the original human of Tamriel the kotringi could be a divergent cousin race from ancient common ancestors with the nedes in Tamriel Like Homo sapiens and Neanderthals Or they could be a subgroup that for whatever reason including magical tinkering or the will of a god(chimer/dumner like) diverged wildly from the original nedes tree Saying that all humans come from atmora is misleading Saarthaal can simply be the first stone city of men while at the time the nedes where still at a reachmen level of civilization with small villages of wood and archaic weaponry That can easily be the case Add the fact that history as you said is written by Victors and voila Saarthal and ysgramor become over the ages myth and legend about the first city and the first men on Tamriel while the nedes are relegated to obscurity even if there were surely around Tamriel large settlement of nedes of a similar size But that just my opinion Good work You have gained a subscription pal Excellent video and material
I leave the giants alone in my playthrus. I do mod them so they are bigger, faster with more abilities. They are no slouch "Giants force of nature" mod
I largely dispute a 500 companions myth, 500 aristocrats sure but for 500 humans alone to fight the whole of the Snow Elven race and on a rare occasion Dwemer? No. The magic of the Elves and the occasional Robot dwemer skirmish would obliterate the Atmorans. it would be impossible for falmer and dwemer to lose to 500 individuals. In all likelihood each companion is a aristocrat with somewhere between 50 and 1000 followers each. At least 50.000 up to 100.000 men would be needed to face the Falmer or Dwemer, or at the smallest 5.000 men. 500 men couldn't take over a country. That's like assuming 500 Finnish warriors in the medieval period could siege and rule over 555 AD height Byzantine Empire. The Falmer and Dwemer had the power of the Eastern Byzantine and Western Roman empire. I will forever eternally dispute that there were 500 humans fighting the Elves alone. I agree there were 500 Companions. But not alone. But with somewhere between 5.000 to 50.000 to 100.000 men. Remember this was the Merethic era height. If the Aldmeri dominion could kill hundreds of thousands of Imperials, Nords and Redguards in the Great War. And The Hammerfell continuation war. The Falmer could kill Ysgrammor's 500 companions. Unless we assume Ysgrammor was a king and each companion was a fief or vassal. And that each vassal themselves had hundreds or thousands of men. After Ysgrammor destroyed the Falmer, a few cities were built. 500 men cannot be all those cities. But thousands of warriors and their families. More likely than not, when a Falmer city was destroyed and each region of Skyrim conquered by Ysgrammor, Atmoran settlers and their militias will locally be defendable levies of conquered regions, while Ysgrammor's 500 companions and their thousands of warriors would conquere. Slavs and Germans didn't send 500 men to destroy the eastern or western empires. But the effort of tens of hundreds of thousands of warriors.
I feel the only way wed see the Dragonborn again is if we had a prequel still technically the Dragonborn would be a different Dragonborn it would take place in Atmora it shows us the Nords way of life on Atmora and also takes place before the freezin but it also does become frozen over thought out the time of the game I’d like to see this as elder scrolls 6 and it be called Atmora instead of bein set in hammerfell and bein called hammerfell
Atmora was once Altmora: The Elderwood, and it was an Elven Kingdom, akin to Old Ehlnofey, which was to the South. After Lorkhan "shattered that land into many", the Wandering Ehlnofey who, under his leadership, took Altmora from Auriel and his Ancient Elves (the Old Ehlnofey). And so, Altmora was renamed Atmora, though Skyrim, the last remnant of Altmora was left behind in where we now call Tamriel. It's why Mer and Man coexist in these areas. The Old Ehlnofey became Aldmer once Mortality was settled, and they then became the Ancient Falmer. The Wandering Ehlnofey would become the Nedes, and of course Kyne created the Nords to aid her husband's armies in the Dawn Era so, they stuck with the Wandering Ehlnofey who already existed. The Nords claim Skyrim is their home, because their ancestors were spawned in on the Throat of the World, but the Snow Elves could also claim the same, because from the very beginning, the lands we know now as Atmora and Tamriel were once Elven Kingdoms, under Auriel, in the Dawn Era
Is it possible that Saarthal is simply the first human "built" city? Earlier migrations of humans could have lived in cities built by elves, either by living with them or by driving the elves out. City could mean they are also discounting many small human settlements, while Saarthal was the first city built by humans to rival those that existed back on Atmora. The use of unreliable narrators in elder scrolls lore is great for explaining away issues like this, there is a lot that is open to interpretation.
I wonder if the tale of Tiber Septim coming from Atmora is corruption of Tiber Septim OF Atmora, a title meant to give him a more noble and ancient heritage in the eyes of the Nords, either of his time of future generations.
I am so sorry for the (almost) month without videos, I had a lot of things going on. But I have returned, and I have some plans for some very interesting videos!
Keep up the amazings vids :)
this is a wonderful video, did you make one about the lore of the Nords before the TES;V retcon? back when the thu'um was the power of Kyne and almost everyone was a warrior poet.
He lives!
Keep up the good work cant wait
Just good to some more quality lore
Its a shame skyrim doesnt have a dlc where you go back to Atmora maybe there could be a quest line or just a place we could visit
Beyond skyrim: atmora is a thing, when will it be released however is yet to be seem. check out the beyond skyrim project if you didnt know about it.
I imagine its something too big to be just a DLC, I think either its gonna be its own game or stay as another mystery alike the fate of the Dwemer
@@TheZomboy11 yeah that's the one I'm really most excited for from the various Beyond Skyrim teams. Watch the trailers for it if you haven't yet!!!
Mods mods mods mods baby
@@014Darkness we probably wouldn't have that for a long time, Skyrim was already a icy environment
It's Greenland? It's Greenland.
I developed my own theory:
To my understanding, it's stated in the Lore, that the modern day Giants and Nords come from the same ancestors, and at some point for some reason split, with the Giants staying big but getting dumber, while the Nords stayed smarter but became smaller.
Furthermore, there is the story, that the Dwemer are called dwarves, despite being of similar height as the other races, because the atmoran settlers were so tall that the Dwemer were dwarves to them.
And then there's an Image of an atmoran, that shows them to be as tall as a mountain (I can't remember if that was official art, though I think it was).
Therefore, I came to theorize, that the atmorans had a far less uniform morphology, similar to the Khajiit. That they were/are similar to Giants in norse mythology or how the Jotun people are portrayed in the God of War games: they are one people, but just as Khajiit morphology has this enormous spectrum, the atmorans could range from ~ 7 ft./2,10 m to the size of a mountain.
That could also explain the exodus. The smaller ones couldn't withstand the cold as much, so they left for Tamriel, while the bigger ones could retain heat easier, similar to whales.
So it could be quite possible, that Atmora is still inhabited, just by the more titanic sized individuals. Maybe with smaller ones like the sea giants living closer to the coasts, where it's a bit warmer, only to raid tamrielic settlements in particularly cold periods, and the closer you get to the heart of the continent, the bigger its inhabitants get.
I have hear that it where the giants that called the dwarfs dwarfs. But ive never heard that giants and the nords originate from the same
@@Graf-Fischgen-von-Fischgesicht oh its true... the old leader of the skaal was a giant ... Frea even tells us this, because she knew him.. and the beliefs of the skaal bears strong influence from atmora... even if it might not be the original form...the symbols of the giants are atmoran.. and specifically the frost /ice giants has a particularly nasty history with the atmorans and the nords of skyrim ;)
That axplains the values held by Nords, the Sea Giants look Nordier than Nords.
Also the theory explains the reason why no one builds at the edge of the map in Skyrim beyond the Jerall Mountains. (unless i missed something because i remember i was specifically looking for it more than a decade ago when i played it)
I remember a troll and maybe the last buildings somewhere around a pass, no buildings beyond that.
It also makes me wonder if Skyrim Giants weren't hunted to extinction (despite their often harmful nature)specifically so that it would remain as a constant reminder for the Nords about their old legends.
It would be a pretty cheesy plot twist but imagine what sort of game could be made next if it turned out the Dwemers didn't disappear but were teleported to Atmora and are currently fighting for survival against the biggest Giants?
That would be too much like AoT though, it would also break the mythical aspect of the game which is what makes it interesting.
On a second thought the three big cities to the North close to the sea could definitely be raided (really forgot about that map), i'm talking about smaller ones-maybe the big ones feel too safe?
There would be notes and books writing about it if this happened in Winterhold, Dawnstar or Solitude which i don't remember so that sort of lore don't yet exist unless someone like the Thalmor wanted to cover it up to make the next attack more unexpected and thus hurt more which is too far-fetched even for the ES world.
Not to mention the Thalmor influence in Skyrim was way too recent and there would be some scholars still remembering the content of these books though maybe not ones you ever meet in the game.
Or these ones just weren't weren't attacked for some reason, on one hand they are prime targets on the other the Sea Giants might play it sneaky to avoid raising attention to themselves.
For Sea Giants it would make the most sense to raid for items like scrolls to obtain magical power, it wouldn't feel like an ES explanation to say they raided for ordinary things like food just like vikings irl.. (also Nords would just get bored and start buildings elsewhere if their cities were destroyed over and over which would render the limited Sea Giants entirely impotent)
The Elder Scrolls world is more...grandiose?...fantasy? than that and i think the Sea Giants would fit a sort of legendary warrior-demigodlike archetype in this world.
One explanation could be that they raid trying to find the Oghma Infinium which as i remember was at the Northern side of the map?
Some island or somewhere near the shore in a shipwreck iirc..
I believe that the Ehlnofey were more flexible in their forms during the Dawn Era. Just look at the creation myths of the Khajiit and Bosmer to see how they were shaped from the ooze.
While the Wandering Ehlnofey forms were still flexible before the Earthbones created the rules of nature, the proto-men likely split into Atmorans, Giants, Nedes, etc.
The Animal Totems of the Atmoran pantheon could be left over from when the Ehlnofey could choose their forms like the Daedric Princes. The greatest spirits choose certain animal forms until all men took humanoid forms.
That’s a really good theory
Some texts also suggest that Atmora was originally held by the Old Elnofey (Ancestors of Elves) but lost to Wandering Elnofey (Ancestors of Men) during the Wars after creation. The Wandering Elnofey could therefore still have remained in other parts of the world after the wars, though scattered into the tribes that were ultimately enslaved by the Elves.
True. And the Nords were a race made by Kyne to fight alongside the Wandering Ehlnofey, which it why they reside in Atmora
If OP is right, Aldmeris could be a misremembering of an old ehlnofey dominated Atmora prior to this early war.
The Nords say they were formed by Kyne's breath onto "The Throat of the World" and spread among the land. Altmer say Atmora was an old ehlnofey kingdom called Altmora which was conquered by men. Very interesting how these stories almost perfectly corroborate each other, could also explain how dragons became so prominent if it was a former old ehlnofey dominion
Theres actually numerous cultures in the neolithic that were able to form sedentary societies without agriculture, so it isnt entirely impossible the atmorans developed a high culture without necessarily needing to farm
Yeah, but building such big boats to sail across the sea of ghosts, forging weapons like the axe/shield of Ysgramor and building a huge underground city at saarthal suggests a level of societal progress that's extremely unlikely to have happened without agriculture. There's a reason why Gobekli Tepe is (afaik) the only megalithic structure we know to have been built by hunter gatherers.
We must not forget that the Nordics wielded powerful runic magic in those times, which would have helped them in their social development.
@@bruhhhjohnson you might want to look at the Saalish and Tlingit and Haida. they had entire sedentary-societies complex ones too based around fishing and hunting and gathering and they made some pretty impressive war canoes even ones with sails supposedly. especially look at the Haida as they have often been compared to the vikings. the haida are also known for having copper and even meteoric iron daggers(plus daggers made from metal they took from european shipwrecks and forged into their own style)
It's not really complicated. The Wandering Elnofey are named so for a reason. Unlike the Old Elnofey who stayed in one location and eventually evolved into the first Elves, the Wandering Elnofey wandered the world and settled in varius different locations, eventually evolving into the first Humans. So it's not that big of a stretch that some settled in Atmora.
What about the molag bal
Well, the Nords know that Shor "granted" (conquered it from the Elves) in the Dawn Era. That's where they settled in large numbers
Strange how men are descended from the wandering elnofey yet mer are far more wide spread throughout Tamriel
The Elder Scrolls 7: Frostfall
Todd Howard: "So basically it's set in the 3rd era in Atmora. It's a vast wasteland with with no NPCs and even if they look the same like all the places there.
Also you can do nothing there and if you complain you just don't get the game!
Modders go! Make us some money!"
tbh just add giants and drauger then it would be better then starfield
Skyrim 2 Atmora
You are a deck hand on a ship destined for Atmora, a great expedition has been sent north to discover the true fate of the northern continent, is it truly a barren wasteland of ice or does life still linger behind the frozen vale? Your ship has been separated from the main fleet and has wrecked on Atmoras shores, will you find your way back to the main expedition force or will you become another soul claimed by the frost fall?
This could actually be a pretty cool game
Alduin was made with the sole role of eating the universe and starting new kalpas. New versions of reality. So does that mean that the first time he appeared in this kalpa, he was supposed to eat the world, but he liked humanity worshipping him so he didn't do it? That's more or less what Paarthurnax says happened.
What does that mean for the current kalpa? How old is it really? I hardly think Alduin was supposed to eat a kalpa that basically just started.
I like to believe that some snow elves fled from solstheim to Atmora with the last battle between them and the nords simply being a distraction to allow the civilians to escape.
Imagine the irony that would be that the Nords fled the continent to escape the cold where as the snow elves fled to the continent with it being the only place the Nords couldn’t reach them.
I think the snow elves would fair quite well considering their superior frost resistance and advanced magics allowing them to alter the weather within isolated areas on Atmora with said magic to make it more livable even if just a little.
I've had this idea as well, tbh. I hope it's some we could find to be true. I doubt it but, I'd love to see it.
Maybe use this as an idea for why the last Atmoran ship that arrived in Skyrim came with such despair. The Snow Elves maybe decided they had the defenses and numbers to kick off the few remaining Nords from their new home
The Snow Elves take Atmora, and rename it Altmora, it's original name before Lorkhan and humans took it
To me, it makes more sense to think the proto-nords fled to Atmora from Skyrim after they lost the Ehlnofey War. The winning Old Ehlnofey in Skyrim became the Falmer.
Tales of defeating the elves on Atmora was likely bluster after the Wandering Ehlnofey lost to the Old Ehlnofey.
We already know where the Falmer fled though.
They fled underground with the Dwarves and to the Forgotten Vale
That could be interesting if their someway alive in Atmora especially since we now there's hidden bastion of snow elf around northern tamriel then the possibility of them fleeing towards Atmora and roscrea There's a high chance which also they might have evolved a lot as a race so their current appearance is a lot different
I've always had this theory that the frostfall was actually caused by stalhrim and its always creeping south eventually it'll be a existential threat to the world and it'll have something to do with a curse or perhaps the magnus portal (the sun) is fading or something like that
A few friends and I believe that there was a war and that the Eye of Magnus was used by one of the dragon priests and thus ruined the continent into an ice age. After that they sense moved to skyrim where later on in time the dragon priest it self was then contained in Labyrinthian separated from the eye so that it may never be used as a weapon again.
Just got back to watching your videos and playing Skyrim. Life is good, thank you for making these.
With so many lost ancestral continents, I've always felt that they could actually be other worlds, but mythologized by each group. Maybe you get an event akin to the Conjunction of the Spheres, where some connections (like to the worlds of Aldmeris and Yokuda) were very short lived and are now totally inaccessible, while a closer world like Atmora has access open and close regularly, allowing Nedes and Nords to slip through at differenent times and places, and sometimes to return without particular effort.
This would also reframe what happened to the Dwemer, who were the only group advanced enough to understand what really happened, and thus would really just be looking for a power source large enough to send them back home.
My headcanon is that while Atmorans worshipped the dragons before their migration to Skyrim, the dragons themselves didn't really care much about them. It was only during the Snow Elf War that the Dovah realized "huh these humans are pretty strong AND they're ALREADY WORSHIPPING US!" and decided to finally respond and established a more "official" Dragon Cult. This would explain then sudden shift in how the dragon priests ruled, as now they were actually taking orders from dragons. This would also explain how the costume visible on the ESO render at 6:00 changed to a more standardized priest uniform that we know from Skyrim. The Atmoran masks probably were also purely ceremonial and only the new ones created in Skyrim had powers.
eehm i don't see where you got that from, they were not created in skyrim? you go back to the time of their golden era to get the mask Konahrik in skyrim... its name it means Warlord and was never given to anyone ;) but the masks themselves were made in the era of the mer... aka the MERITHIC era probably in the land of the dragon cults origin... long before what happened in skyrim ;)
dragons are “the children of Akatosh ” and “were indigenous to the continent of Akavir” but fled to Tamriel after running into trouble with the serpentine race Tsaesci.
@@Marvinuser First of all, it's never explicitly stated whether or not Konahrik was worn. There isn't enough context at its shrine - which is located in the city of Bromjunaar, Skyrim - to know its owner or purpose.
The migration from Atmora happened primarily in the Merethic Era and so did the entirety of the Dragon Cult's rule in Skyrim. I never went beyond that era in my comment, whenever I refernced Skyrim I meant Skyrim the location, not Skyrim the game, as I assume that's what confused you about my comment.
It's never stated how the masks came to be either, but there's a design shift in them, mainly evident through cosmetic items in ESO: The Frostbane Dragon Priest costume, visible in this video at 6:00 is strongly implied to have been the Dragon Priest attire used in Atmora, and it's distinctly different than the usual Dragon Priest clothing as seen in TESV and ESO. So the style of their clothing seems to have changed over the course of the migration - it could have been due to a change within the cult itself, as suggested by me above, or it could have been simply caused by Skyrim's warmer climate making the thick fur coat an overkill. Either way, the clothing style has changed, which would mean that the new uniforms were created in Skyrim. In ESO, there's also the Archaic Dragon Priest Mask, a cosmetic drop from the Scalecaller Crates, which could be (and that's purely my speculation based on its description and design) a transistory style, used in between the Atmoran and Tamriellic styles. And, I repeat, all of that did happen during the Merethic Era, and I've never stated that it didn't.
@@Marvinuser The lore regarding dragons in Akavir is fairly vague (as anything related to Akavir, really), and there are conflicting accounts of them originating in either Atmora or Akavir. That doesn't seem to matter as far as the Atmora-Skyrim Cult is concerned, as there isn't any record of a dragon-worshipping culture in Akavir
Would you ever do a video on makeup/cosmetics or face paints in Tamriel? I think it would be so interesting
I was actually working on that a while ago, but I havent really found enough for it to be a proper lore video rather than just a summary of the ones that we know of. But i'll prob pick up the topic again at some point.
I appreciate the lore videos
I'm a newer member of your community. You have the best layout for lore out of any channel I've watched. There's so much I'm still working through, but I've been binge watching. You make awesome content and the visuals are nice.
from the newly added book in ESO Goldroad it implies the snow elfs are behind the freezing of Atmora.
Which book??
@@ImperialKnowledge The Ship of Ice part of the Scholarium Scribblings collection.
@@neasper cool ill check it out thank you!
@@neasper just read it, its super interesting. Especially the last part where they kind of sow doubt about it being the snow elves, but still, this is a very interesting suggestion and I may make a short video on it soon. Thanks for bringing it to my attention 😄
@@ImperialKnowledge no problem
This was absolutely a subject I was looking forward to you covering, and I do like your speculations on it as well! Thanks for another interesting video :)
Its a frozen wasteland, they probably primarily hunted, fished and whaled.
If they were expert Whalers they'd have been fine
Wow I'm deep in the lore but the first I'm hearing of this place. This is why I love you! You cover everything literally don't leave a thing out about the Elder Scrolls world
nice, was waiting for this video to eventually surface
I think you may be the best elder scrolls lore TH-camr you just underrated af
I think skyforge beeing built by the first migrations makes a lot of sense
We need a Atmora DLC for Skyrim.
Really wish there was a mod for this place. Seems like such a great place to have the final battle against Alduin, but nah we gotta go to Socengarde... For some reason lmao
The Beyond Skyrim project is working on that!
@@arthurburmann theyve been working on that for years 😭
@@Thunderous333 that is the price of main game quality, i just hope it doesnt get cencelled.
Do you guys know if Skyblivion is still a thing? I've been waiting for it for ages.
@@mrsauceman5721 yep, they announced a release date for 2025.
I'm a strong believer that the Nedes come from southern central Tamriel (Leyawiin, Bravil, and where House Dress and southern Hlaalu territories are)
Atmora is always my favorite region to play in in strategy game mods.
The nord creation myth says they were "breathed" onto the Throat of the World by Kyne, which contradicts the Atmoran settlers thing.
I heard a proposed synthesis of the two origins, that Kyne created the atmorans to aid the wandering ehlnofey in the Ehlnofey War and the atmorans settled on the northern coast of Tamriel before it broke off and ended up becoming Atmora in the far north.
That puts nedes on both Atmora and Tamriel after the War and allows the atmorans to travel south and colonize Skyrim
Elder scrolls 6: Atmora
We’ve had 11-12 years of snowy nord nonsense
@@damientorres8988 going on 13 strong and battle hardened Valholl awaits
Atmora would be a good location for the Kamal if they ever wanted a good strategic point
Excited to see what the folks at Beyond Skyrim are cooking up with Atmora
Atmora is the lost land of the old world from the fallout series after the bombs fell
Another video next WEEK? HYPE
His voice reminds me of Rirns Llervu and Farengar combined! 😂
I personally like to think that not everyone on atmora worshiped the dragons as gods, some might have seen them as powerful and terrible demons to be wary of. The reason I believe this is that if shor created humans to help him in the war against the elves, it wouldn’t make sense for all of them to start worshipping his enemies. Even if they forgot many things, that belief should have stayed to some extent. So I think the dragon cult was a doomsday cult that soon was mixed with the animal worship after the dragons came to rule.I believe this is why there were so many wars on the continent, they are constantly fighting each other because the dragon priests wanted more power and because the other peoples were fighting crusades against the wing demons that wanted to rule them
my theory is that the entirety of Nirn is about to go through a global cooling
heck yeah new video
After the snow-elves moved there, men became rarer and rarer...
Love the videos man, keep it up!
Well done video
But I disagree with the theory of nedes coming from atmora
Their culture and sistem of believe tradition and religions are too wildly different from atmora and their closest kin
The nords and the skaal
If an entire species of man (the redguard originate from a different. Continent (yokuda)
I don’t see why the nedes cannot be the indigenous race of men of Tamriel
Because I speculate that the Kothringi humans (which are wildly different, just like the redguards) are likely the native humans to Tamriel. But I could be wrong ofc
@@ImperialKnowledgethanks for the answer
I see your arguments and they can be pretty compelling and well exposed
Yet I cannot overcome the evidence in front of my eyes about early nedes
Just look at the reachmen and their wild difference with the nords and Bretons
Or look at games set in early ages or with a lot of reference to times where the nedes where still a distinct people
names of people, gods cultural institutions
That by the way are also wildly different from redguards
I think that the more reasonable answer is that the nedes are the original human of Tamriel the kotringi could be a divergent cousin race from ancient common ancestors with the nedes in Tamriel
Like Homo sapiens and Neanderthals
Or they could be a subgroup that for whatever reason including magical tinkering or the will of a god(chimer/dumner like) diverged wildly from the original nedes tree
Saying that all humans come from atmora is misleading
Saarthaal can simply be the first stone city of men while at the time the nedes where still at a reachmen level of civilization with small villages of wood and archaic weaponry
That can easily be the case
Add the fact that history as you said is written by Victors and voila
Saarthal and ysgramor become over the ages myth and legend about the first city and the first men on Tamriel while the nedes are relegated to obscurity even if there were surely around Tamriel large settlement of nedes of a similar size
But that just my opinion
Good work
You have gained a subscription pal
Excellent video and material
I leave the giants alone in my playthrus. I do mod them so they are bigger, faster with more abilities. They are no slouch
"Giants force of nature" mod
You know what could be a plot twist for the elder scrolls series if the frost elves somehow took over atmora
I largely dispute a 500 companions myth, 500 aristocrats sure but for 500 humans alone to fight the whole of the Snow Elven race and on a rare occasion Dwemer? No. The magic of the Elves and the occasional Robot dwemer skirmish would obliterate the Atmorans.
it would be impossible for falmer and dwemer to lose to 500 individuals.
In all likelihood each companion is a aristocrat with somewhere between 50 and 1000 followers each.
At least 50.000 up to 100.000 men would be needed to face the Falmer or Dwemer, or at the smallest 5.000 men.
500 men couldn't take over a country.
That's like assuming 500 Finnish warriors in the medieval period could siege and rule over 555 AD height Byzantine Empire.
The Falmer and Dwemer had the power of the Eastern Byzantine and Western Roman empire.
I will forever eternally dispute that there were 500 humans fighting the Elves alone.
I agree there were 500 Companions. But not alone. But with somewhere between 5.000 to 50.000 to 100.000 men.
Remember this was the Merethic era height.
If the Aldmeri dominion could kill hundreds of thousands of Imperials, Nords and Redguards in the Great War. And The Hammerfell continuation war.
The Falmer could kill Ysgrammor's 500 companions.
Unless we assume Ysgrammor was a king and each companion was a fief or vassal. And that each vassal themselves had hundreds or thousands of men.
After Ysgrammor destroyed the Falmer, a few cities were built. 500 men cannot be all those cities. But thousands of warriors and their families.
More likely than not, when a Falmer city was destroyed and each region of Skyrim conquered by Ysgrammor, Atmoran settlers and their militias will locally be defendable levies of conquered regions,
while Ysgrammor's 500 companions and their thousands of warriors would conquere.
Slavs and Germans didn't send 500 men to destroy the eastern or western empires. But the effort of tens of hundreds of thousands of warriors.
I feel the only way wed see the Dragonborn again is if we had a prequel still technically the Dragonborn would be a different Dragonborn it would take place in Atmora it shows us the Nords way of life on Atmora and also takes place before the freezin but it also does become frozen over thought out the time of the game I’d like to see this as elder scrolls 6 and it be called Atmora instead of bein set in hammerfell and bein called hammerfell
HEEEEEEE’S BACK!
Climate shift?
Lets tax all the poor people for breathing
I dont know why I find the history of fictional worlds more interesting than the real world.
"Ths three human races" including half elvez but not redguards is wild lmao
Redguard come from a different continent, yokuda
@@ImperialKnowledge i was kinda drunk and was just fuckin around m8 plz forgive 👉👈
I think the snow elves are in atmora
Atmora was once Altmora: The Elderwood, and it was an Elven Kingdom, akin to Old Ehlnofey, which was to the South.
After Lorkhan "shattered that land into many", the Wandering Ehlnofey who, under his leadership, took Altmora from Auriel and his Ancient Elves (the Old Ehlnofey). And so, Altmora was renamed Atmora, though Skyrim, the last remnant of Altmora was left behind in where we now call Tamriel.
It's why Mer and Man coexist in these areas. The Old Ehlnofey became Aldmer once Mortality was settled, and they then became the Ancient Falmer. The Wandering Ehlnofey would become the Nedes, and of course Kyne created the Nords to aid her husband's armies in the Dawn Era so, they stuck with the Wandering Ehlnofey who already existed.
The Nords claim Skyrim is their home, because their ancestors were spawned in on the Throat of the World, but the Snow Elves could also claim the same, because from the very beginning, the lands we know now as Atmora and Tamriel were once Elven Kingdoms, under Auriel, in the Dawn Era
great Video !
Maybe the Imperials/Nedes came from Roscrea south of Atmora.
Fuck yeah new video
Keep Going❤️
"kontenent" lekker man
Hell yeah more lore.
hell yeah
What are “the needs”?
Is it possible that Saarthal is simply the first human "built" city? Earlier migrations of humans could have lived in cities built by elves, either by living with them or by driving the elves out. City could mean they are also discounting many small human settlements, while Saarthal was the first city built by humans to rival those that existed back on Atmora. The use of unreliable narrators in elder scrolls lore is great for explaining away issues like this, there is a lot that is open to interpretation.
Please, can you tell me what music you used here? Excepting Skyrim ones.
I put the name + origin of each musical piece on the screen! At the start of each track.
@@ImperialKnowledge Ah, lol. Thank you.
I wonder if the tale of Tiber Septim coming from Atmora is corruption of Tiber Septim OF Atmora, a title meant to give him a more noble and ancient heritage in the eyes of the Nords, either of his time of future generations.
Nice
If humans and sea giants really did mate, I feel sorry for the human women. Once you go sea giant, you never go back 😂
Atmora is just Antarctica north of it are our continents Africa Europe Asia north and south America and Australia
❤
My head canon is that climate change deniers stayed on Atmora and died.