Ignoring all the brainrot “woman bad!” but to address all the comments saying they hired the wrong CEO for a tech company: Prior to Logitech, Bracken Darrell worked as president of Braun under Proctor and Gamble and made a name for himself by turning around the Old Spice brand. Then he worked at Whirlpool - a company known for washers and dryers. Now he - and Alastair - both work for a large footwear and apparel conglomerate. CEOs are captains of business and they adapt their skillset to the task at hand. CEOs don’t need to be dialed in to the niche, they need people on their team who are.
In summary, she is a bad CEO for Logitech, and the board of directors and its shareholders need to fire her and get a capable replacement ASAP. Before the company's stocks' tanks like Intel.....
Shroud is a good match for them. Washed and constant bad takes, same as logitech. I remember when Shroud said that we'll all be buying 5 different copies of starfield same as Skryim. Sometimes I think he does bad takes just for the viewership.
@@timberw1lly can you give an example? Most use an optical sensor of some sort, have two buttons and a wheel, fit in your palm. There hasn't been real INNOVATION in mice since the 90's with the scroll wheel. Beyond that is just been adding buttons and improving sensors.
@@ThisisDD lightweight mice have taken off over the last 4 years. That's been a solid innovation - keep the same, or better, performance in a more lightweight platform.
Logitech basically lost their touch years ago and only doing the bare minimum or 2 steps back when it comes to products or other things. They got too comfortable in a way compared to other companies
This video is exactly what companies like Logitech need from people inside the communities they market to. Someone at Logitech literally just needs to play this video at a meeting and let them know what a major pillar of their business thinks. Absolutely fantastic video with data to back up what you say and with constructive criticism instead of coming off as just complaining, or trashing the company
Simple, they hired a CEO who worked in Cosmetics not in Tech, thus she clueless about tech. Why? If she said that a subscription based mouse is a good idea, yea. How are you going to give us a hardware upgrade since you can't do it with software.
Because the CEO doesn’t understand why someone would need a hardware upgrade or even different hardware, probably thinks one mouse fits all for clicking on excel files and browsing the web. Doesn’t know why someone would want a 40g mouse with top of the line sensor and button switches vs a heavy ergo mouse for editing video or playing mmos
This is what happens when the leaders of a company do not use their products, do not play their games, do not know or get in touch with their customers.
When suits take over something they don't understand or like, this is what happens. And how does someone who's worked in beauty and food even end up in gaming? Who elected her as a leader? how was she hired? What rep does she have that makes her fit to be the CEO of a gaming company? Feels like a very shitty joke ngl.
The good thing about mice/keyboards is that these days no one has a monopoly on such peripherals. We're privileged to have so many brands to choose from that if a company ever goes bad, ditching them in favour of another is easy. The G Pro is the last product I ever got from them and I remember how dumb it was that it still used micro USB and had no capability to be used in wired mode in the event that the battery ran out. Everyone was praising it for being lightweight and wireless but you'd have to be a competitive gamer to fully appreciate that sort of thing and from my perspective it looked like Logitech couldn't even get the basics right. Oh and don't forget the double clicking issues that plagues the G Pro. Definitely no regrets leaving the company behind and using other mice since then.
Imo superlight v1 was pretty revolutionary bringing premium mice to a larger market. But the follow up was atrocious, v2 was lackluster while other brands innovated
If you think she is the only one thinking about subscription hardware products, or Logitech is the only company... YOU'RE completely out of touch. We let subscription in the door when Adobe switched. Since then there has been an ever growing wave of software that has become subscription or ad supported. Every company on the planet is thinking hard right now about how to sell you something you have to keep paying for. Saying it out loud was the only mistake Logitech's CEO made.
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Good luck with that. Can you imagine the backlash from the specific set of people about that? (Probably not gamers or even Logitech users)
Corporations would be happy with that model - they'd get huge discounts on quantity. If manufacturers can force this model upon consumers, it's a done deal. With consumer organizations being weak almost everywhere in the world (basically, outside the EU, consumer organizations rarely are more than fronts for corporate interests or extremely weak and impotent almost hippie like setups), that model might catch on. But I don't believe it will. A subscription-based model makes sense where the logistic system required to manage each subscription individually is already in place - like with software - or where the acquisition and operating cost of the device in question is anyway high, making the added cost of managing a subscription small, in relative terms - like cars. Neither holds for mice or keyboards. What I believe Logitech is trying to do is position their products into a better paying market. Selling to teenagers and making money off it is a difficult business - teenagers can be easily convinced to buy crap, but they don't have much money (some do, but that's just a handful). Selling to young professionals, past the first few years of their career, is a completely different game - they won't spend their money on frap, but they have way deeper pockets. Only, their toys tend to be something else than computer games, so I don't see Logitech - or any other company making mice and keyboards - getting much of those people's money. If Logitech wants those people's money, they need to come up with completely different products. That takes developing entirely new competencies, not just rebranding or marketing existing lines of products to new categories of consumers.
Subscriptions don't work for tech products. Most people don't buy a new mouse every few months or few years even. Logitech is of touch for not understanding the markets needs, which is fine for consumers because there are plenty of other brands they can turn to, not so much for shareholders as the stock looks to be on the downswing. Something that cant be fully blamed on bidenomics like most other stocks can.
They discontinued one of their most popular mice in the g602/g604, with no viable replacement people like me who use it as a productivity tool are SOL. For a long time, Logitech also used those horrible mechanical switches that caused their mice to fail within a year. And they still haven't updated their mice to address the issues, and no new models don't count. I am honestly surprised people have not tried to push class action against them.
Razer Naga plus reduced weight battery adapter, get version with infinite scroll, G502 X if you can live with less buttons. And Steelseries made ultralight MMO mouse but no infinite scroll.
They also canned the g600 with no replacement, and there's literally nothing else like it on the market. No one else sells a mmo mouse with that many thumb buttons that also has a 3rd (ring finger) top button.
They do have a 2 year warranty and I've always had a good experience with it. It would be better if the buttons didn't fail at all but at least they cover their products.
@@bradyasher7363 The G600 has been in production for a crazy long time. It was still using that old laser sensor! I have a feeling it was also popular with the productivity crowd so they might release a successor.
I got to talk with an incredibly enthusiastic individual who's working at Logitech this week. The reality is that Logitech is as big as a gaming company gets, and bureaucracy is what makes it impossible for them to react quickly and for their workers who truly care to have an influence on their products. Their sheer size and massive internal structuring stops them from making truly passionate products, since those who steer the projects seem to be the ones being the most out of touch.
Great video, Logitech seems to think the market hasn't changed since 2019 when in fact, its totally different. Wooting has changed the keyboard scene and thankfully other brands have jumped on board.
Not to mention they had the most popular MMO mouse for over a decade, only to stop production of it entirely and make no replacement for it. I'm personally not a fan of the g600 but you can't deny just how popular, affordable, and available it used to be. Any forum anywhere that talks about MMO mice has so many people recommending and supporting the thing and now it's just gone without a successor. I feel bad for its fans.
The G600 was popular because it was affordable and durable and they had good software integration for it. I've only ever had to buy two, my original and a replacement. Had I the foresight I would've purchased a backup. Then they discontinue it when there are two massive MMO's on the market and they could make a Lightspeed version. It's such a bad move.
@@sequences8942 And thus, they lose market share to Razer. AGAIN. I got a Razer Naga because Logitech no longer has an MMO mouse, which in turn made me buy more Razer products.
They discontinued my baby the G600 MMO mouse. Nothing else on the market compares :( I hope they make an updated lightspeed version. For now I'm wrapping mine up for the future and switching to something still selling.
@@ZimpanX I got a Naga Hyperspeed and it's been nice. I miss the third mouse click of the G600. And you're right razer synapse is SOMEHOW worse than ghub 🤷🏼♂️ it never saves my macros and I have to make them fresh every day
The G600 is an essential PC accessory for me too. I just like the side and ring finger buttons too much, for games, browsing, and "serious" software. The other mmo mice aren't the same. The software is ass to configure but once you set it up it at least works. Now that it's discontinued I bit the bullet and bought an extra one for a marked up price for peace of mind for when my current one starts failing. Logitech had the best MMO/macro mouse out there for over a decade even without updating it and they chose to stop making it. Ugh.
@@mkuhnactual Nothing beats the form of the G600. The third mouse click, the position and ergonomics of the buttons, and it was so nice and beefy. I get that some people want to use a weight reduced feather for gaming but not everyone! Bro LOGITECH PLEASE GIVE US LIGHTSPEED G600 WITH A TYPE C PORT AND REPLACEABLE FEET.
I think writing off the CEO voice by saying it's cool she doesn't know wtf she is talking about since she is big picture.... The fact she is the captain of a ship and thinks she is a captain of a airplane is a big problem. I don't think she her self has to be a pro gamer or play games- but she 100% should have a finger on the pulse of every market she controls. Saying she is just big picture is a cop out- It's not the president fault- its the VP ... LOL- nah She said it- she needs to own and it figure out wtf she is doing with this Logitech ship she has.
doesn't even need to understand the "gaming" market, if she had people on her team that understand that niche, its the overall computer peripheral market that I think is the real cash cow, and she doesn't really understand that. E.G. Not just mice and keyboards but I've long had a Logitech computer speaker set and yet lately I've dropped it for something else.
@@DesFTW_ I'm not a handy crafting guy to do work on mice like that :) To be honest I'd still use the g703 if it was around 70-80g not over 100 as it is right now
It's not just in the gaming space, we use a lot of their rally kits, their support is getting worse, drivers worse, quality is pretty hit and miss and yet they are charging a premium for them, this is allowing companies such as Poly, biamp etc to really start to challenge them in this segment
I remember buying a logitech PS2 controller back in like 2004/2005. It was wireless, had amazing battery life, and was super affordable! From this moment, logitech was my go-to for computer/gaming peripherals. These last couple years have been pretty disappointing and sucks to not see them innovate like they use to.
Been using their products for almost 9 years now but I'm honestly tired of dealing with RMAs over mice that develop double click issues and keyboards with double typing issues, holiday season is coming so I'll have to look elsewhere
This. I had a streak of almost every Logitech peripheral I owned double inputting, falling apart, or ceasing to function altogether and swore them off since then. I don't care how good a mouse performs if I have to replace/repair it every six months.
my g203 got double click after two weeks of usage. now i avoid any mice with omron switches. i'm glad that there's a lot of new brands like Fantech or any other local brands in my country that provides incredibily good value products, non omron switches, and easier RMA process.
@@winston737 Same with the G502, but ended up just upgrading my switches and had a shop swap them out....covid years cause a massive premium on hardware at them time.
thats honestly my question. the idea could be good in theory but i dont know any situation where i'd pay monthly for...any mouse feature as of right now
Great breakdown especially explaining the roles of CEOs, Designers, and the profit growth based on sector. This is basically a research paper. Killer stuff. They might figure it out, they might not. Many companies (obviously not the competitors you mention) are struggling with innovation and design right now. Doesn't help that most companies are hyper-fixated on short-term profits. I'm hoping the more people talk about the impacts of good design/innovation and customer satisfaction on long term growth, the more we can get away all of this cash grab nonsense/enshittification of so many brands and products.
I'm glad you made this video. I've been extremely disturbed by Logitech's gaming peripheral decisions over the last several years. The only thing they needed to do was update the g915 with USB-C and PBT keycaps and they could have remained dominant in the peripheral space. Also, an updated g710+ would have been amazing! But instead of these things, we got grossly unsophisticated TKL keyboards with fluffy cloud wrist rests, $380 Astro headsets, $170 60% keyboards with outdated specs, etc. While I think The Verge's interview got taken out of context, Logitech has clearly become a company more focused on Environmental, Social, and Governance ("ESG") and sustainability than honoring the legacy of their past. I doubt there is anyone at the company now who even remembers how far they have come. At the core of all this, is a larger discussion around how PC gaming (and gaming as a whole) has deteriorated as a hobby.
I commented something similar on optimum techs video on the 60% keyboard. My g pro tkl keycaps faded and the replacement set I got didn't work because the spacebar and caps lock are non-standard. I also have the g pro lightspeed headset which luckily has type c but the build quality is worse than Chinese budget.
Fantastic video! I’ve got to assume there are folks internally at Logitech who’ve been communicating the same things! hopefully this gives them more ammunition to bring about some change on this front! More competition in the space (especially when it comes to innovation) is super welcome!
I'm 1000% with you on this one. Logitech needs to shut up and listen. "Forever mouse"? I already have it, It's called the G305 (I have two). Swappable batteries, easily fixable and upgradable .. and is even possible to mod it however you need thanks to a quite active community. "IA Button" I'm already sick of the IA buzz word and fake hype. The "Co-Pilot" button on all new laptops will be as useless as the "Areo Flip 3D" (from Windows Vista) on all of those Microsft keyboards today. I would consider any other mouse, like the Fnatic Bolt, before considering the G309 if I'm moving away from my trusty G305 (Spoiler: I'm not). Beyond capabilities: The best companies usually promote leadership from WITHIN, they don't bring someone from a tottally different industry no matter their resume. Because people from within understand the company's vision beyond pleasing some clueless hungry geezers in Wall Street. If you don't serve your true customers, shareholders won't get served.
man, mine started double clicking and I can´t find it anywhere unless its X4 times its MSRP, it it even got to the point that I ordered spare sparts and I'm not willing to let it die.
They should make a light speed version improve on the grip a little so its easier to lift up on the left side and get rid of that 10-15 gram led weight inside, yep it has a actual lead weight inside go watch a tear down of it. By the looks of it rip the G600 they don't produce it anymore and stocks mostly dried up :(.
They could literally just continue releasing good quality, non “gamer-y” accessories and just continue to dominate the market for office computer accessories. The MX Keys S is the nicest chiclet keyboard I have used. People think mechanical keyboard are objectively better, but chiclets are often times better for those working in the office for long hours. I’m saying this as a dude who is SUPER into keyboards, I have tons of obscure switch technologies that go back to the 70s - chiclets are the only keyboards that don’t flair up my RSI, and feel the most responsive for gaming due to the lower travel. Topre realised rubber domes could feel nice years ago, and are now considered some of if not the best mechanical switches! Similarly, the MX Master 3S is the nicest mouse I have used for office work. Its not great for gaming as its pretty heavy, and the scroll wheel still flairs up my RSI (we need mice that reduce repetitive motions. Bring back the Scrollpoint!).
Exactly, they make the best vertical mice on the market and have an excellent split ergo keyboard. Post work from home boom, there's a lot more of us that maintain work desks at home and the office. That's 2x the keyboards, mice, and headsets. Selling to the fattest wallets is never a bad business strategy.
I mean CEOs are business people they don't need to be pro gamer fanatcis. And it's no guarantee either, look at Glorious, they were "in touch" with gamers and now look at them. Hidetaki Miyazaki for example says he doesn't even really play the souls games himself because hes not a great gamer and yet his team makes great products. It's about managing people and keeping the internal balance and crunching the numbers
@@acphantom6437 agreed 💯 the issue is that a lot of times these CEOs compromise on the standards that should be at the core of their philosophy in order to generate "shareholder value" it takes a good leader that also has understanding of what their customers actually want versus what their customers will tolerate. My concern here is that missing either one of these qualities would be a problem, so I stick with my statement with a minor tweak: ...that there really should be no compromise. But life is full of compromises, and my hope is that the compromise in this case is not profit driven.
The only thing Logitech would have to do for me to vomit cash at them would be to make a wireless powerplay version of the old G600. Literally all I want in a mouse.
I feel like Logitech is now hitting the point where Corsair was in like 2019/2020 : when everyone had already released their version of a 60% keyboard a couple of years prior, and had at least one light-weight ish mouse on the market, Corsair continued to release heavy-ass mice with side walls made of metal marketed "for FPS players" (lol), and full size keyboards with the most basic variety of Cherry switches, bone-dry stabs and painted ABS keycaps. Anyone looking at a their product lineup back then was scratching their head : how could have they missed this and completely misse the mark on their core audience? That's where Logitech is now : just like corsair, they managed to get a place in the gaming world by doing one type of product that worked really well, and now they see that product as an easy money maker, so they just release it over and over again without really thinking about innovating much. Corsair managed to get their keyboard game a little bit up to speed, their mice are still kinda meh but still a lot better than what they were 5 years ago. We'll see if Logitech will actually bounce back in the game or dwindle into a "normie" brand that nobody recommends anymore since everybody else makes better stuff. I started on Logitech for gaming mice : a G502, then a G403, then a G305 as my first wireless mouse (that kinda kickstarted my passion for FPS and made me go semi-pro in Overwatch esports, I guess that counts for something), but after that it was really hard for me to pick up a Logitech mouse : they were either too heavy, or too expensive. I ended up going with an Aerox 3, which was a good mouse overall. I got tired of the noneycomb design and teh way it was picking up every hair coming off the mousepad, so I switched to a Pulsar X2 wireless medium as it was basically the same shape, but lighter with no holes and without breaking the bank. It's been a couple years and it's still my daily driver. At no point did I even think about getting a Logitech mouse again, because their "good stuff" is simply too expensive and their budget stuff is far from good enough compared to other brands. I guess sometimes brands need a real kick in the nuts to realize they've been doing something wrong.
I consider myself to be an oddball, as I use their G13 pad, and G600 as my setup while gaming, with my K310 washable keyboard above. I use high sensitivity DPI, where most people like to pickup and drop their mouse. Their software is my favorite to use, and can manage all the macros between the G13 and G600, with profile swapping and DPI changes seamlessly. All of this is old Logitech hardware, but it still works perfectly. And I know I'm odd for my preferences, but that's the beauty of their older lineup, no matter what your preference they had you covered. Now all the launches and press seem so... NOT Logitech. Very bizarre indeed.
Thanks for making this Brian, I'm a G-Pro Wireless user and 915 user (the latter because I got an incredible deal a few years back on an amazon warehouse deal) and I'm concerned that once I get to replace these items due to natural wear and tear I have 2 choices, leave the Logitech ecosystem because of decisions they've made over the last few years or stay and accept more expensive subpar products, we both know how that will go!
Direct and to the point. Logitech, I'll tell you what i want: a light, high DPI mouse that just works, stays charged (a mat that charges my mouse while i use it was a brilliant idea!) and fits my hand. No, that product won't make me a source of automatically recurring revenue. But it will make me a repeat customer because I will always need to buy another mouse, and once i have something that reliably just does what I want, I'll be back for more. Bavk when I first started using Logitech mice, it wss what is now the B100. Bought a dozen of thrm, literally a dozen, one for every new computer, until I switched to the Razer Diamondback. Still wired mice, but high DPI, again for every machine. These days I want wireless, but I still want lightweight and variable DPI and the rest.
Whoa the hard cut ending. They're gonna realllyy struggle since there is so much more competition now. You see a lot fewer pros using Logitech gear than before too. A lot have opted for a Razer Hunstman or Wooting60 in the FPS space. Even with mice. There are still a good chunk of pros on the Superlight but no where near as many as before
It's not just their gaming peripherals. They haven't really upgraded their other good products, e.g. still uses micro-usb in their MX Ergo and the MX Master 3s hasn't been updated in ages.
It has always amazed me after going through numerous original GPW replacements that the mouse was so highly regarded as the "golden standard" when it lacked such basic testing. Pressing the left or right mouse too high (far up towards the back of the mouse) would cause it to physically interfere with the scrollwheel causing it to trigger a scroll up or down. This was a fundamental design flaw, maybe I was just "using it wrong" but the way I see it, if your button can be clicked from that position, it should work. Ultimately this could easily be fixed by disassembling the mouse and sanding down by just a milometer or so around the gap for the scrollwheel (This was later fixed on the superlight by making the gap between the M1/M2 buttons and the scrollwheel larger but before then despite numerous support tickets everytime they would just say "oopsie it's a double click issue here is a new mouse").
I really thought there was not much more to say about that new CEO and her IDEAS...but you really put some work into this video and your Columbo Journalist Research was over 9000 :) interesting and a lot of good useable information in this packed 8min Video that i did not know about Logitech´s last decade....good video, as usual :)
I've been a Logitech fan for the longest time. Tried a number of mice but always find myself coming back to G502 due to its design which is perfect for both gaming & productivity. However, looking at their recent product releases, been asking the same question myself, which is "WHY?". They really need to up their research game and find out what would be appealing to gamers nowadays. At least listen more to their community managers, consolidate user feedback and utilize it to plan new products.
I am absolutely surprised that their Master series mouse has consistently shown left button click defect. Never expect 100 USD to have a such big defect.
I got an M705 Marathon mouse in 2015. I used it every day for college, gaming, and whatever else a student did, up until 2023. It was very hardy with excellent battery life and build quality. Where did that go??
This subscription model is unfortunately becoming super widespread. I work for jaguar landrover and the standard that most car companies are adopting is selling 1 spec of each car model, and unlocking the features through different subscriptions tiers. Makes way less sense when youre talking about a bog standard mouse vs a luxury car.
Sadly when Logitech discontinued the G600 I couldn't see anything that appeal to 'my type' of gamer... MMO and RPG gaming. I don't want a light weight 2 button mouse, I want an ergonomic MMO mouse. Logitech killed it with reliable software, which the competitors are horrible at.
Ive had more Logitech mice than i can count. But their quality have taken a NOSE DIVE last few years. I swapped out my G502 FIVE times now cos the same issue, where the left or right mouse button starts double clicking, or it releases if you hold it down. I honestly cant believe that they still have not changed their switches. The amount of returns/waranty claims on that issue alone, and the amount of bad reputation must be staggering from that fault alone.
Great video! I enjoyed the deep dive into the company and potential insight into why these things may be happening. I have bought many Logitech mice over the years and I'm currently using the OG Superlight as my daily driver; with that said, I will be dead before I pay a mouse subscription 💀💀
I have an Akko keyboard, it's fantastic. I've had programmable ones in the past then never used the programmability so I just went with a really well made mechanical keyboard. Makes sense to me.
I finally replaced my G915 TKL that I originally used for gaming and then swapped to my work keyboard because keys would stop working, and it's not hot swap. My solution for something with a numpad, since it's just for work, was the Drop Shift V2. Logitech didn't even enter into the conversation. I would LOVE a lightweight G502, but I'll be sticking with my Pulsar X2 and GMMK Pro for gaming, and G305 and Shift V2 for work.
Hey Logitech, how's the subscription mouse doing? Great idea! It was about 10 years ago I dumped (literally) my HP multifunction printer when it started whining about buying him a new ink cartridge when the only thing I wanted form it is to SCAN a page. Never looked at a HP product since then. More precisely, I did: recently got one HP laser for repair (was bricked with a failed firmware update, could solve it), it was one of their high end b/w lasers, an 'Enterprise' model. Engineeringly it is a messy crap: takes forever to boot the thing, I guess Oak Ridge's Frontier supercomputer boots faster, after the first 10 pages printed the print speed reduces to half, apparently the thing overheats or I don't know why (in spite their main selling point is the super printing speed of 71ppm), the built in superduper document storage run full with one single 288-page pdf, refused to work) it was a pain even to test that printer) Is it the same greedy nonsense, zero innovation, technical debt happening to Logitech?
My biggest pain point is the removal of the G600! My wife and I have been using that mouse for years and years and years now, and when we have to replace our current ones it's gonna be a real pain to find a good MMO mouse, and none seem to have any kind of G-Shift equivalent either...
"Ignoring all the brainrot “woman bad!” " It's not PC, but it's hard to ignore. It happens all the time. Women don't seem to be big fans of computer tech. One of my sisters works with a computer for her art and became quite clever, but the other one wants nothing to do with it and does almost everything on her phone. It's almost impossible to convince her to improve her tech. She doesn't care. 🙂
That's a real shame. For most of my life I've mostly seen Logitech as a solid bet to buy cheap, even quick or emergency, peripherals (M&KB combos, headsets, etc) but more recently I finally decided to shell out for a premium gaming mouse. After trying a few I settled on the "G503 Lightspeed" which turned out to be my favorite, and has been for the last couple of years since I bought it. Probably a lot of preference, but nothing else I've tried even comes close (and on board profiles just make it that much better) When it dies I'll probably just buy another. The only other mouse that's caught my interest is one of the crazy Swiftpoints with all the extra buttons (I like offloading lots of inputs from my left hand to the mouse, thumb crouch became mandatory) I guess only time will tell.
It’s not just the gaming market - the stuff I use for work suddenly started crashing due to the “AI Prompt Creator” (???) not working, and they discontinued the Harmony remotes despite those being innovative and profitable - they’re just totally fumbling around!
This video is a long time coming. I think the worse part is that amid Logitech's complacency, competition reduces and other brands can now slack off knowing one of the giant in the industry is slacking off.
The 60% layout is why I bought Wooting keyboard. I primarily bought it for gaming and i got sick and tired of this 40% of keyboard I never used spilling over onto my house pad, limiting my mouse movement range.
This is a great, really respectful video. You recognize the company’s history and strengths and are also detailed when criticizing the new direction. The Logitech C-suite would be wise to watch this video.
I never thought logitech had been good since actually purchasing their products. I bought their premium g903 mouse and had to rma it for faulty switches. The replacement one had the same issue 3 months later. The only longevity I got from the mouse was when I purchased and soldered my own switches. Then I got a headset from them which stopped working in one ear after a few weeks. I think they need to start with quality control before I can ever consider them again
DPI button?That's the Ctrl-W button on my G305 (75.9g). I close tabs and windows all the time. I wouldn't use a mouse without the "DPI" button being user-definable.
Think they have quality issues as well. Bought a gaming headset and I think after a year, one speaker just stopped working. When looking for a possible solution online I saw that this was a very common problem. Had to throw them away.
You know what I really want, and would be willing to pay a lot of $$$ for? A no-compromises hall effect game controller. I paid $150 for an XBox Elite controller, and loved it, before eventually giving it up after multiple rmas due to stick drift; I am currently using a lower-quality controller with hall effect joysticks simply for the convenience and reliability despite the compromises in ergonomics. I would happily pay $200+ for an actual premium controller that didn't experience stick drift, but nobody seems interested in selling them even though the margins would be way higher.
There had been very little excitements from Logitech G for many years since before Faber took over. The Hyperion Fury, Proteus Core, Daedalus Prime era was an amazing time.
well the greatest mouse they created I believe is the MX master 3. The left click PCB is separated from the main board making it easier to fix without dismantling everything apart. The batter is easily replaceable to with 3 pin connector. it has 5 buttons in total and 2 scroll wheel. and This is why it is the last mouse you will ever have. The only downside is the Rubbery exterior. which may degrade over time. the interior will last over 20yrs because it is highly repairable. but the exterior rubbery part is the one that will surely first break apart. I still looking for a replacement casing in case it happens on mine.
As someone living in Brazil, Logitech was my go to for a long time. Their products had good pricing and would last forever. The last 3 products I bought from them had very shoddy quality and starting having problems very quickly.
Well, i kind of like that there is little change in mice market. I mean we are in a point where it is really hard to do something new. Right now we have mice that got like 30000 DPI what is crazy. I personally like high sense mouse, but cant really go over 10000DPI. And from what i know, most people preffer lower sens. Also we got very fast and reliable wireless connection with up to 8000Hz. We had ergonomic mouses for long time already. Now there was a push for lightweight mouses. But really don't know where we can improve. But haveing G502 aviable for 10 years for me is great. I still got my MX518 (The OG one) and switched to G500 and G500s, but switch from G500 to G502 was very painful. Diffrent shape, diffrent buttons location etc... I really wish they could keep the same mouse shape forever and just upgrading electronics. What they kind of did with G502. I would really like modern wireless mouse with G500 body and button layout.
All they need to do with the G305 was include bluetooth and Powerplay. That's it. That's all they need to do to refresh that product. The G305 is the most perfect mouse I've ever used from its replaceable battery to its ergonomic shape. It quite literally ticks all the boxes one would want from a mouse all while providing excellent price to performance. None of that internal battery bs or shape redesign. They don't even need to put powerplay in it. Just give me a 305 with bluetooth and I will buy five of them just in case they discontinue it.
Feels like a good place to note that they released the g pro sim racing wheel in 2023 promising an ecosystem of different rims, pedals, shifter, etc and have released a grand total of zero ecosystem items since then. It ain’t just the keyboard and mouse gang that are upset with Logitech lately.
They've also been silently killing older mice models without having a good replacement. Big fan of the g602, and the g604 was a great improvement, but now it's discontinued and there's no replacing that many buttons.
This was all incredibly fair but I completely agree, they've lost their way. They may not be utterly lost but it'll require some hard pivots to really maintain their stance in any competitive gaming or enthusiast market
Great vid, awesome insights! Really don’t like that my MX master keeps trying to get me to map an AI prompt builder onto one of the buttons. Absolute insanity
Ignoring all the brainrot “woman bad!” but to address all the comments saying they hired the wrong CEO for a tech company:
Prior to Logitech, Bracken Darrell worked as president of Braun under Proctor and Gamble and made a name for himself by turning around the Old Spice brand. Then he worked at Whirlpool - a company known for washers and dryers. Now he - and Alastair - both work for a large footwear and apparel conglomerate.
CEOs are captains of business and they adapt their skillset to the task at hand. CEOs don’t need to be dialed in to the niche, they need people on their team who are.
@@phamchithienyeah actually I can blame people for that line of thinking
"Yes, but it’s gorgeous. Think about it like a diamond-encrusted mouse."
@@phamchithienyou cared enough to moan about lol
In summary, she is a bad CEO for Logitech, and the board of directors and its shareholders need to fire her and get a capable replacement ASAP.
Before the company's stocks' tanks like Intel.....
Totally agree with you on ever point 👉🏾.
Logitech said, "We got Shroud" and just dusted off their hands and walked away.
Some people love the OG G303.. Some people also like the Shroud G303 and I'm one of those people
Shroud is a good match for them. Washed and constant bad takes, same as logitech. I remember when Shroud said that we'll all be buying 5 different copies of starfield same as Skryim. Sometimes I think he does bad takes just for the viewership.
Who's Shroud?
@@RikkiSan1 Shr00d
@@funkmasterkirk I've never seen a mouse with a shroud. wtf are you talking about
It's simple, they got complacent. They got too comfortable releasing average products without innovation
Not a lot of innovation happening in mice regardless.
@@ThisisDDdisagree. There are a lot of companies doing cool things with mice
@@timberw1lly can you give an example? Most use an optical sensor of some sort, have two buttons and a wheel, fit in your palm.
There hasn't been real INNOVATION in mice since the 90's with the scroll wheel. Beyond that is just been adding buttons and improving sensors.
@@ThisisDD lightweight mice have taken off over the last 4 years. That's been a solid innovation - keep the same, or better, performance in a more lightweight platform.
@@ThisisDD are you living under a rock? holy shit?!
Logitech basically lost their touch years ago and only doing the bare minimum or 2 steps back when it comes to products or other things. They got too comfortable in a way compared to other companies
The classic "bait and switch". Almost everyone does this
Got an MX master product replacement?
their QC have also being abysmal dogsh1t for about the same duration.
This video is exactly what companies like Logitech need from people inside the communities they market to. Someone at Logitech literally just needs to play this video at a meeting and let them know what a major pillar of their business thinks. Absolutely fantastic video with data to back up what you say and with constructive criticism instead of coming off as just complaining, or trashing the company
If they release a G703 superlight ill shave all my hair off. Even the nether regions.
Having the EXACT same thoughts. They are crazy behind.
😮😮😮 what are you doing here 😅 🎧
Agree 100%. AI button on the mouse - GTFO. Subscription based mouse. Have you lost your minds?
Are they trying to become Hewlett Packard?
@@andybrice2711 they're getting close...
“CEOs are big picture players”… yeah, we are witnessing how ceos are doing great in the gaming and entertainment industry 💀
Worst thing is that there’s no innovation, but also it’s more expensive for no reason lol
Expensive for no reason? That's actually Razer, Logitech is just incompetent
Simple, they hired a CEO who worked in Cosmetics not in Tech, thus she clueless about tech. Why? If she said that a subscription based mouse is a good idea, yea. How are you going to give us a hardware upgrade since you can't do it with software.
That’s the neat part: they won’t 😈
Because the CEO doesn’t understand why someone would need a hardware upgrade or even different hardware, probably thinks one mouse fits all for clicking on excel files and browsing the web. Doesn’t know why someone would want a 40g mouse with top of the line sensor and button switches vs a heavy ergo mouse for editing video or playing mmos
This is what happens when the leaders of a company do not use their products, do not play their games, do not know or get in touch with their customers.
When suits take over something they don't understand or like, this is what happens. And how does someone who's worked in beauty and food even end up in gaming? Who elected her as a leader? how was she hired? What rep does she have that makes her fit to be the CEO of a gaming company? Feels like a very shitty joke ngl.
Welcome to the corporate world where your curriculum vitae is more important that the actual skills you have for the job
This is literally how every large company and Ceo works. Not saying it's good, but it is industry standard.
Logitech is not a "gaming company". They have a gaming division.
@@nickthaskater Alright, it's an electronics company. Still begs the question how beauty and food industry skills are transferable?
@@RealCrispyRice CEO skills are transferrable. The industry doesn't have anything particularly to do with it.
The good thing about mice/keyboards is that these days no one has a monopoly on such peripherals. We're privileged to have so many brands to choose from that if a company ever goes bad, ditching them in favour of another is easy.
The G Pro is the last product I ever got from them and I remember how dumb it was that it still used micro USB and had no capability to be used in wired mode in the event that the battery ran out. Everyone was praising it for being lightweight and wireless but you'd have to be a competitive gamer to fully appreciate that sort of thing and from my perspective it looked like Logitech couldn't even get the basics right. Oh and don't forget the double clicking issues that plagues the G Pro. Definitely no regrets leaving the company behind and using other mice since then.
Imo superlight v1 was pretty revolutionary bringing premium mice to a larger market. But the follow up was atrocious, v2 was lackluster while other brands innovated
Yeah I switched to DAV3 wired and the Bungee and I'm not regretting it. Feels like a cloud.
They need to fire the CEO, ASAP....
they just hired her, we're gonna be stuck with her for at least 2 more months
If you think she is the only one thinking about subscription hardware products, or Logitech is the only company... YOU'RE completely out of touch. We let subscription in the door when Adobe switched. Since then there has been an ever growing wave of software that has become subscription or ad supported. Every company on the planet is thinking hard right now about how to sell you something you have to keep paying for.
Saying it out loud was the only mistake Logitech's CEO made.
Good luck with that. Can you imagine the backlash from the specific set of people about that? (Probably not gamers or even Logitech users)
Corporations would be happy with that model - they'd get huge discounts on quantity. If manufacturers can force this model upon consumers, it's a done deal. With consumer organizations being weak almost everywhere in the world (basically, outside the EU, consumer organizations rarely are more than fronts for corporate interests or extremely weak and impotent almost hippie like setups), that model might catch on.
But I don't believe it will. A subscription-based model makes sense where the logistic system required to manage each subscription individually is already in place - like with software - or where the acquisition and operating cost of the device in question is anyway high, making the added cost of managing a subscription small, in relative terms - like cars. Neither holds for mice or keyboards.
What I believe Logitech is trying to do is position their products into a better paying market. Selling to teenagers and making money off it is a difficult business - teenagers can be easily convinced to buy crap, but they don't have much money (some do, but that's just a handful). Selling to young professionals, past the first few years of their career, is a completely different game - they won't spend their money on frap, but they have way deeper pockets. Only, their toys tend to be something else than computer games, so I don't see Logitech - or any other company making mice and keyboards - getting much of those people's money. If Logitech wants those people's money, they need to come up with completely different products. That takes developing entirely new competencies, not just rebranding or marketing existing lines of products to new categories of consumers.
Subscriptions don't work for tech products. Most people don't buy a new mouse every few months or few years even. Logitech is of touch for not understanding the markets needs, which is fine for consumers because there are plenty of other brands they can turn to, not so much for shareholders as the stock looks to be on the downswing. Something that cant be fully blamed on bidenomics like most other stocks can.
They discontinued one of their most popular mice in the g602/g604, with no viable replacement people like me who use it as a productivity tool are SOL. For a long time, Logitech also used those horrible mechanical switches that caused their mice to fail within a year. And they still haven't updated their mice to address the issues, and no new models don't count. I am honestly surprised people have not tried to push class action against them.
Razer Naga plus reduced weight battery adapter, get version with infinite scroll, G502 X if you can live with less buttons. And Steelseries made ultralight MMO mouse but no infinite scroll.
They also canned the g600 with no replacement, and there's literally nothing else like it on the market. No one else sells a mmo mouse with that many thumb buttons that also has a 3rd (ring finger) top button.
@@bradyasher7363 this ^ I've had mine since 2012 and it's still working but man I'd love to get off the laser mouse lmao
They do have a 2 year warranty and I've always had a good experience with it. It would be better if the buttons didn't fail at all but at least they cover their products.
@@bradyasher7363 The G600 has been in production for a crazy long time. It was still using that old laser sensor! I have a feeling it was also popular with the productivity crowd so they might release a successor.
I got to talk with an incredibly enthusiastic individual who's working at Logitech this week. The reality is that Logitech is as big as a gaming company gets, and bureaucracy is what makes it impossible for them to react quickly and for their workers who truly care to have an influence on their products. Their sheer size and massive internal structuring stops them from making truly passionate products, since those who steer the projects seem to be the ones being the most out of touch.
Agreed, fire the middle management people, you just tender the TPS reports to the engineers? Hmmm... FIRED.
They're like the Ubisoft of the peripheral world...
Nah unlike Logitech Ubisoft has never done something amazing
Great video, Logitech seems to think the market hasn't changed since 2019 when in fact, its totally different. Wooting has changed the keyboard scene and thankfully other brands have jumped on board.
Not to mention they had the most popular MMO mouse for over a decade, only to stop production of it entirely and make no replacement for it. I'm personally not a fan of the g600 but you can't deny just how popular, affordable, and available it used to be.
Any forum anywhere that talks about MMO mice has so many people recommending and supporting the thing and now it's just gone without a successor. I feel bad for its fans.
The G600 was popular because it was affordable and durable and they had good software integration for it. I've only ever had to buy two, my original and a replacement. Had I the foresight I would've purchased a backup. Then they discontinue it when there are two massive MMO's on the market and they could make a Lightspeed version. It's such a bad move.
@@sequences8942
And thus, they lose market share to Razer. AGAIN.
I got a Razer Naga because Logitech no longer has an MMO mouse, which in turn made me buy more Razer products.
Can't wait for gaming mouse battlepasses
Logitech has turned into the company you go to if you want a worse version of tech that's already been out for 5 years.
They discontinued my baby the G600 MMO mouse. Nothing else on the market compares :( I hope they make an updated lightspeed version. For now I'm wrapping mine up for the future and switching to something still selling.
Ever tried the Razer Naga? Or can you not stand the software perhaps?
@@ZimpanX I got a Naga Hyperspeed and it's been nice. I miss the third mouse click of the G600. And you're right razer synapse is SOMEHOW worse than ghub 🤷🏼♂️ it never saves my macros and I have to make them fresh every day
The G600 is an essential PC accessory for me too. I just like the side and ring finger buttons too much, for games, browsing, and "serious" software. The other mmo mice aren't the same. The software is ass to configure but once you set it up it at least works.
Now that it's discontinued I bit the bullet and bought an extra one for a marked up price for peace of mind for when my current one starts failing.
Logitech had the best MMO/macro mouse out there for over a decade even without updating it and they chose to stop making it. Ugh.
yeah I was devastated to learn it was discontinued as I'm fed up with my corsair scimitar. Low quality and ique is absolutely garbage.
@@mkuhnactual Nothing beats the form of the G600. The third mouse click, the position and ergonomics of the buttons, and it was so nice and beefy. I get that some people want to use a weight reduced feather for gaming but not everyone! Bro LOGITECH PLEASE GIVE US LIGHTSPEED G600 WITH A TYPE C PORT AND REPLACEABLE FEET.
I think writing off the CEO voice by saying it's cool she doesn't know wtf she is talking about since she is big picture.... The fact she is the captain of a ship and thinks she is a captain of a airplane is a big problem. I don't think she her self has to be a pro gamer or play games- but she 100% should have a finger on the pulse of every market she controls. Saying she is just big picture is a cop out- It's not the president fault- its the VP ... LOL- nah She said it- she needs to own and it figure out wtf she is doing with this Logitech ship she has.
doesn't even need to understand the "gaming" market, if she had people on her team that understand that niche, its the overall computer peripheral market that I think is the real cash cow, and she doesn't really understand that. E.G. Not just mice and keyboards but I've long had a Logitech computer speaker set and yet lately I've dropped it for something else.
I'm waiting for that G403/703 superlight as if I'm waiting for my kid to be born, they are just really allergic to money.
So true
Pulsar X3 is 54g.
@@workerq1 I'm already using the deathadder v3 hyperspeed which is mostly filling that void but I still want a 403/703 superlight.
I modded my g703 with a small battery and removing the power play magnets to drop the weight, felt great, battery life sucked (obviously)
@@DesFTW_ I'm not a handy crafting guy to do work on mice like that :) To be honest I'd still use the g703 if it was around 70-80g not over 100 as it is right now
She has a bachelors degree in Journalism and and a masters in business administration… why is she CEO for a tech company?
It's not just in the gaming space, we use a lot of their rally kits, their support is getting worse, drivers worse, quality is pretty hit and miss and yet they are charging a premium for them, this is allowing companies such as Poly, biamp etc to really start to challenge them in this segment
I remember buying a logitech PS2 controller back in like 2004/2005. It was wireless, had amazing battery life, and was super affordable! From this moment, logitech was my go-to for computer/gaming peripherals. These last couple years have been pretty disappointing and sucks to not see them innovate like they use to.
Can't wait to see the first ever pay-per-click subscription model introduced into a mouse and keyboard!
Can't wait to see what remains of Logitech as a viable entity after that.
Been using their products for almost 9 years now but I'm honestly tired of dealing with RMAs over mice that develop double click issues and keyboards with double typing issues, holiday season is coming so I'll have to look elsewhere
This. I had a streak of almost every Logitech peripheral I owned double inputting, falling apart, or ceasing to function altogether and swore them off since then. I don't care how good a mouse performs if I have to replace/repair it every six months.
my g203 got double click after two weeks of usage. now i avoid any mice with omron switches. i'm glad that there's a lot of new brands like Fantech or any other local brands in my country that provides incredibily good value products, non omron switches, and easier RMA process.
G502 hero and G512 got double click after only 1 year of usage and after that, no more buying logitech products
@@winston737 Same with the G502, but ended up just upgrading my switches and had a shop swap them out....covid years cause a massive premium on hardware at them time.
How would the forever mouse even work ? What new software features could they realistically add to justify the subscription ?
thats honestly my question. the idea could be good in theory but i dont know any situation where i'd pay monthly for...any mouse feature as of right now
Well to be cant fair, you did basically need a yearly subscription for a g pro wireless bcuz they broke so often 😂
Great breakdown especially explaining the roles of CEOs, Designers, and the profit growth based on sector.
This is basically a research paper. Killer stuff.
They might figure it out, they might not. Many companies (obviously not the competitors you mention) are struggling with innovation and design right now. Doesn't help that most companies are hyper-fixated on short-term profits. I'm hoping the more people talk about the impacts of good design/innovation and customer satisfaction on long term growth, the more we can get away all of this cash grab nonsense/enshittification of so many brands and products.
Great video, thanks for talking about the people behind the scenes.
I'm glad you made this video. I've been extremely disturbed by Logitech's gaming peripheral decisions over the last several years. The only thing they needed to do was update the g915 with USB-C and PBT keycaps and they could have remained dominant in the peripheral space. Also, an updated g710+ would have been amazing!
But instead of these things, we got grossly unsophisticated TKL keyboards with fluffy cloud wrist rests, $380 Astro headsets, $170 60% keyboards with outdated specs, etc.
While I think The Verge's interview got taken out of context, Logitech has clearly become a company more focused on Environmental, Social, and Governance ("ESG") and sustainability than honoring the legacy of their past. I doubt there is anyone at the company now who even remembers how far they have come.
At the core of all this, is a larger discussion around how PC gaming (and gaming as a whole) has deteriorated as a hobby.
I commented something similar on optimum techs video on the 60% keyboard. My g pro tkl keycaps faded and the replacement set I got didn't work because the spacebar and caps lock are non-standard. I also have the g pro lightspeed headset which luckily has type c but the build quality is worse than Chinese budget.
All I want Logitech to do is bring back the G600 alongside a wireless version of it.
this
Yes yes and yes + get rid of that 10-15gram lead weight inside of it.
Steelseries has a wireless mmo mouse but it’s a bit pricey
Fantastic video! I’ve got to assume there are folks internally at Logitech who’ve been communicating the same things! hopefully this gives them more ammunition to bring about some change on this front! More competition in the space (especially when it comes to innovation) is super welcome!
I'm 1000% with you on this one. Logitech needs to shut up and listen.
"Forever mouse"? I already have it, It's called the G305 (I have two). Swappable batteries, easily fixable and upgradable .. and is even possible to mod it however you need thanks to a quite active community.
"IA Button" I'm already sick of the IA buzz word and fake hype. The "Co-Pilot" button on all new laptops will be as useless as the "Areo Flip 3D" (from Windows Vista) on all of those Microsft keyboards today.
I would consider any other mouse, like the Fnatic Bolt, before considering the G309 if I'm moving away from my trusty G305 (Spoiler: I'm not).
Beyond capabilities: The best companies usually promote leadership from WITHIN, they don't bring someone from a tottally different industry no matter their resume. Because people from within understand the company's vision beyond pleasing some clueless hungry geezers in Wall Street. If you don't serve your true customers, shareholders won't get served.
i miss the G600 for MMO's :(
man, mine started double clicking and I can´t find it anywhere unless its X4 times its MSRP, it it even got to the point that I ordered spare sparts and I'm not willing to let it die.
They should make a light speed version improve on the grip a little so its easier to lift up on the left side and get rid of that 10-15 gram led weight inside, yep it has a actual lead weight inside go watch a tear down of it. By the looks of it rip the G600 they don't produce it anymore and stocks mostly dried up :(.
i still use my 603, never going back to any mouse, as soon as they stop making them, im buying 2-3 to last me till my demise.
The Naga is pretty comparable
@@SevensBlade the ring finger button is what im missing most.
They could literally just continue releasing good quality, non “gamer-y” accessories and just continue to dominate the market for office computer accessories. The MX Keys S is the nicest chiclet keyboard I have used. People think mechanical keyboard are objectively better, but chiclets are often times better for those working in the office for long hours. I’m saying this as a dude who is SUPER into keyboards, I have tons of obscure switch technologies that go back to the 70s - chiclets are the only keyboards that don’t flair up my RSI, and feel the most responsive for gaming due to the lower travel. Topre realised rubber domes could feel nice years ago, and are now considered some of if not the best mechanical switches!
Similarly, the MX Master 3S is the nicest mouse I have used for office work. Its not great for gaming as its pretty heavy, and the scroll wheel still flairs up my RSI (we need mice that reduce repetitive motions. Bring back the Scrollpoint!).
Exactly, they make the best vertical mice on the market and have an excellent split ergo keyboard. Post work from home boom, there's a lot more of us that maintain work desks at home and the office. That's 2x the keyboards, mice, and headsets. Selling to the fattest wallets is never a bad business strategy.
low travel mechanical switches exist.
"i dont expect the ceo of a gaming peripheral company to understand gaming". Thats not the best take.
I mean CEOs are business people they don't need to be pro gamer fanatcis. And it's no guarantee either, look at Glorious, they were "in touch" with gamers and now look at them. Hidetaki Miyazaki for example says he doesn't even really play the souls games himself because hes not a great gamer and yet his team makes great products. It's about managing people and keeping the internal balance and crunching the numbers
@@acphantom6437 agreed 💯 the issue is that a lot of times these CEOs compromise on the standards that should be at the core of their philosophy in order to generate "shareholder value" it takes a good leader that also has understanding of what their customers actually want versus what their customers will tolerate.
My concern here is that missing either one of these qualities would be a problem, so I stick with my statement with a minor tweak:
...that there really should be no compromise.
But life is full of compromises, and my hope is that the compromise in this case is not profit driven.
Apple put a soda guy to run it back in the day, almost lost it all. Why should this be any different?
The only thing Logitech would have to do for me to vomit cash at them would be to make a wireless powerplay version of the old G600. Literally all I want in a mouse.
I feel like Logitech is now hitting the point where Corsair was in like 2019/2020 : when everyone had already released their version of a 60% keyboard a couple of years prior, and had at least one light-weight ish mouse on the market, Corsair continued to release heavy-ass mice with side walls made of metal marketed "for FPS players" (lol), and full size keyboards with the most basic variety of Cherry switches, bone-dry stabs and painted ABS keycaps. Anyone looking at a their product lineup back then was scratching their head : how could have they missed this and completely misse the mark on their core audience?
That's where Logitech is now : just like corsair, they managed to get a place in the gaming world by doing one type of product that worked really well, and now they see that product as an easy money maker, so they just release it over and over again without really thinking about innovating much. Corsair managed to get their keyboard game a little bit up to speed, their mice are still kinda meh but still a lot better than what they were 5 years ago. We'll see if Logitech will actually bounce back in the game or dwindle into a "normie" brand that nobody recommends anymore since everybody else makes better stuff.
I started on Logitech for gaming mice : a G502, then a G403, then a G305 as my first wireless mouse (that kinda kickstarted my passion for FPS and made me go semi-pro in Overwatch esports, I guess that counts for something), but after that it was really hard for me to pick up a Logitech mouse : they were either too heavy, or too expensive. I ended up going with an Aerox 3, which was a good mouse overall. I got tired of the noneycomb design and teh way it was picking up every hair coming off the mousepad, so I switched to a Pulsar X2 wireless medium as it was basically the same shape, but lighter with no holes and without breaking the bank. It's been a couple years and it's still my daily driver.
At no point did I even think about getting a Logitech mouse again, because their "good stuff" is simply too expensive and their budget stuff is far from good enough compared to other brands. I guess sometimes brands need a real kick in the nuts to realize they've been doing something wrong.
I consider myself to be an oddball, as I use their G13 pad, and G600 as my setup while gaming, with my K310 washable keyboard above. I use high sensitivity DPI, where most people like to pickup and drop their mouse. Their software is my favorite to use, and can manage all the macros between the G13 and G600, with profile swapping and DPI changes seamlessly. All of this is old Logitech hardware, but it still works perfectly.
And I know I'm odd for my preferences, but that's the beauty of their older lineup, no matter what your preference they had you covered. Now all the launches and press seem so... NOT Logitech. Very bizarre indeed.
Thanks for making this Brian, I'm a G-Pro Wireless user and 915 user (the latter because I got an incredible deal a few years back on an amazon warehouse deal) and I'm concerned that once I get to replace these items due to natural wear and tear I have 2 choices, leave the Logitech ecosystem because of decisions they've made over the last few years or stay and accept more expensive subpar products, we both know how that will go!
Direct and to the point. Logitech, I'll tell you what i want: a light, high DPI mouse that just works, stays charged (a mat that charges my mouse while i use it was a brilliant idea!) and fits my hand.
No, that product won't make me a source of automatically recurring revenue. But it will make me a repeat customer because I will always need to buy another mouse, and once i have something that reliably just does what I want, I'll be back for more.
Bavk when I first started using Logitech mice, it wss what is now the B100. Bought a dozen of thrm, literally a dozen, one for every new computer, until I switched to the Razer Diamondback. Still wired mice, but high DPI, again for every machine. These days I want wireless, but I still want lightweight and variable DPI and the rest.
Private equity.
Love these style of videos! Hope to see more one day
Whoa the hard cut ending.
They're gonna realllyy struggle since there is so much more competition now.
You see a lot fewer pros using Logitech gear than before too. A lot have opted for a Razer Hunstman or Wooting60 in the FPS space. Even with mice.
There are still a good chunk of pros on the Superlight but no where near as many as before
As someone who watches your keyboard videos all the time, appreciate the link back to our interview 🙏
It's not just their gaming peripherals. They haven't really upgraded their other good products, e.g. still uses micro-usb in their MX Ergo and the MX Master 3s hasn't been updated in ages.
Some top tier journalism here @badseed! Love this format and the information in the video!
First video I’ve seen of yours. Absolutely love your style and how in-depth you got. Subbed.
Fantastic video. Glad you're investigating stuff like this, super interesting.
The problem is that theyre a swiss company.
Switzerland is literally a bubble. They work on their own news and their own time.
It has always amazed me after going through numerous original GPW replacements that the mouse was so highly regarded as the "golden standard" when it lacked such basic testing. Pressing the left or right mouse too high (far up towards the back of the mouse) would cause it to physically interfere with the scrollwheel causing it to trigger a scroll up or down. This was a fundamental design flaw, maybe I was just "using it wrong" but the way I see it, if your button can be clicked from that position, it should work. Ultimately this could easily be fixed by disassembling the mouse and sanding down by just a milometer or so around the gap for the scrollwheel (This was later fixed on the superlight by making the gap between the M1/M2 buttons and the scrollwheel larger but before then despite numerous support tickets everytime they would just say "oopsie it's a double click issue here is a new mouse").
Double clicks and overpriced mice is what they are known for. It's been years, decades even when Logitech was on top of their game.
I really thought there was not much more to say about that new CEO and her IDEAS...but you really put some work into this video and your Columbo Journalist Research was over 9000 :) interesting and a lot of good useable information in this packed 8min Video that i did not know about Logitech´s last decade....good video, as usual :)
I don't want mouse software updates, I just want to plug it in and see it move the cursor and register clicks.
I've been a Logitech fan for the longest time. Tried a number of mice but always find myself coming back to G502 due to its design which is perfect for both gaming & productivity. However, looking at their recent product releases, been asking the same question myself, which is "WHY?". They really need to up their research game and find out what would be appealing to gamers nowadays. At least listen more to their community managers, consolidate user feedback and utilize it to plan new products.
I am absolutely surprised that their Master series mouse has consistently shown left button click defect. Never expect 100 USD to have a such big defect.
I got an M705 Marathon mouse in 2015. I used it every day for college, gaming, and whatever else a student did, up until 2023. It was very hardy with excellent battery life and build quality.
Where did that go??
This subscription model is unfortunately becoming super widespread. I work for jaguar landrover and the standard that most car companies are adopting is selling 1 spec of each car model, and unlocking the features through different subscriptions tiers. Makes way less sense when youre talking about a bog standard mouse vs a luxury car.
Sadly when Logitech discontinued the G600 I couldn't see anything that appeal to 'my type' of gamer... MMO and RPG gaming. I don't want a light weight 2 button mouse, I want an ergonomic MMO mouse. Logitech killed it with reliable software, which the competitors are horrible at.
Ive had more Logitech mice than i can count. But their quality have taken a NOSE DIVE last few years. I swapped out my G502 FIVE times now cos the same issue, where the left or right mouse button starts double clicking, or it releases if you hold it down. I honestly cant believe that they still have not changed their switches. The amount of returns/waranty claims on that issue alone, and the amount of bad reputation must be staggering from that fault alone.
Great video! I enjoyed the deep dive into the company and potential insight into why these things may be happening. I have bought many Logitech mice over the years and I'm currently using the OG Superlight as my daily driver; with that said, I will be dead before I pay a mouse subscription 💀💀
Whata great ending. You committed hard to that
I have an Akko keyboard, it's fantastic. I've had programmable ones in the past then never used the programmability so I just went with a really well made mechanical keyboard. Makes sense to me.
I finally replaced my G915 TKL that I originally used for gaming and then swapped to my work keyboard because keys would stop working, and it's not hot swap. My solution for something with a numpad, since it's just for work, was the Drop Shift V2. Logitech didn't even enter into the conversation.
I would LOVE a lightweight G502, but I'll be sticking with my Pulsar X2 and GMMK Pro for gaming, and G305 and Shift V2 for work.
discontinuing the g600 was the last straw
Hey Logitech, how's the subscription mouse doing? Great idea! It was about 10 years ago I dumped (literally) my HP multifunction printer when it started whining about buying him a new ink cartridge when the only thing I wanted form it is to SCAN a page. Never looked at a HP product since then.
More precisely, I did: recently got one HP laser for repair (was bricked with a failed firmware update, could solve it), it was one of their high end b/w lasers, an 'Enterprise' model. Engineeringly it is a messy crap: takes forever to boot the thing, I guess Oak Ridge's Frontier supercomputer boots faster, after the first 10 pages printed the print speed reduces to half, apparently the thing overheats or I don't know why (in spite their main selling point is the super printing speed of 71ppm), the built in superduper document storage run full with one single 288-page pdf, refused to work) it was a pain even to test that printer)
Is it the same greedy nonsense, zero innovation, technical debt happening to Logitech?
My biggest pain point is the removal of the G600! My wife and I have been using that mouse for years and years and years now, and when we have to replace our current ones it's gonna be a real pain to find a good MMO mouse, and none seem to have any kind of G-Shift equivalent either...
This was a great video, thanks Badseed!
"Ignoring all the brainrot “woman bad!” " It's not PC, but it's hard to ignore. It happens all the time. Women don't seem to be big fans of computer tech. One of my sisters works with a computer for her art and became quite clever, but the other one wants nothing to do with it and does almost everything on her phone. It's almost impossible to convince her to improve her tech. She doesn't care. 🙂
Great video, I hope you review the new JDS atom stack like you said you would in the DAC/AMP video. Does it finally challenge the magni modi stack ?
That's a real shame. For most of my life I've mostly seen Logitech as a solid bet to buy cheap, even quick or emergency, peripherals (M&KB combos, headsets, etc) but more recently I finally decided to shell out for a premium gaming mouse. After trying a few I settled on the "G503 Lightspeed" which turned out to be my favorite, and has been for the last couple of years since I bought it. Probably a lot of preference, but nothing else I've tried even comes close (and on board profiles just make it that much better)
When it dies I'll probably just buy another. The only other mouse that's caught my interest is one of the crazy Swiftpoints with all the extra buttons (I like offloading lots of inputs from my left hand to the mouse, thumb crouch became mandatory)
I guess only time will tell.
For what ever it’s worth almost didn’t click on this video because the thumbnail wasn’t hitting until I realised it was your channel
It’s not just the gaming market - the stuff I use for work suddenly started crashing due to the “AI Prompt Creator” (???) not working, and they discontinued the Harmony remotes despite those being innovative and profitable - they’re just totally fumbling around!
This video is a long time coming. I think the worse part is that amid Logitech's complacency, competition reduces and other brands can now slack off knowing one of the giant in the industry is slacking off.
on the bright side this just means more market share for companies that actually innovate like endgamegear
The 60% layout is why I bought Wooting keyboard. I primarily bought it for gaming and i got sick and tired of this 40% of keyboard I never used spilling over onto my house pad, limiting my mouse movement range.
They need to come out with a gpx mini
to late
This is a great, really respectful video. You recognize the company’s history and strengths and are also detailed when criticizing the new direction. The Logitech C-suite would be wise to watch this video.
I never thought logitech had been good since actually purchasing their products. I bought their premium g903 mouse and had to rma it for faulty switches. The replacement one had the same issue 3 months later. The only longevity I got from the mouse was when I purchased and soldered my own switches. Then I got a headset from them which stopped working in one ear after a few weeks.
I think they need to start with quality control before I can ever consider them again
DPI button?That's the Ctrl-W button on my G305 (75.9g). I close tabs and windows all the time. I wouldn't use a mouse without the "DPI" button being user-definable.
The forever mouse would be a mouse that goes back to physical buttons and sliders..
The mouse isn't the problem, it is the software..
Think they have quality issues as well. Bought a gaming headset and I think after a year, one speaker just stopped working. When looking for a possible solution online I saw that this was a very common problem. Had to throw them away.
Really enjoyed this more analytical, macro-commentary!! I think you were insightful and had hard data to support your conclusions.
You know what I really want, and would be willing to pay a lot of $$$ for? A no-compromises hall effect game controller. I paid $150 for an XBox Elite controller, and loved it, before eventually giving it up after multiple rmas due to stick drift; I am currently using a lower-quality controller with hall effect joysticks simply for the convenience and reliability despite the compromises in ergonomics. I would happily pay $200+ for an actual premium controller that didn't experience stick drift, but nobody seems interested in selling them even though the margins would be way higher.
There had been very little excitements from Logitech G for many years since before Faber took over. The Hyperion Fury, Proteus Core, Daedalus Prime era was an amazing time.
well the greatest mouse they created I believe is the MX master 3.
The left click PCB is separated from the main board making it easier to fix without dismantling everything apart.
The batter is easily replaceable to with 3 pin connector.
it has 5 buttons in total and 2 scroll wheel.
and This is why it is the last mouse you will ever have.
The only downside is the Rubbery exterior. which may degrade over time.
the interior will last over 20yrs because it is highly repairable.
but the exterior rubbery part is the one that will surely first break apart.
I still looking for a replacement casing in case it happens on mine.
Seems to me they've just became a budget brand that's too expensive. Vivanco and Trust level.
As someone living in Brazil, Logitech was my go to for a long time. Their products had good pricing and would last forever. The last 3 products I bought from them had very shoddy quality and starting having problems very quickly.
Well, i kind of like that there is little change in mice market. I mean we are in a point where it is really hard to do something new.
Right now we have mice that got like 30000 DPI what is crazy. I personally like high sense mouse, but cant really go over 10000DPI. And from what i know, most people preffer lower sens. Also we got very fast and reliable wireless connection with up to 8000Hz. We had ergonomic mouses for long time already. Now there was a push for lightweight mouses. But really don't know where we can improve. But haveing G502 aviable for 10 years for me is great. I still got my MX518 (The OG one) and switched to G500 and G500s, but switch from G500 to G502 was very painful. Diffrent shape, diffrent buttons location etc... I really wish they could keep the same mouse shape forever and just upgrading electronics. What they kind of did with G502. I would really like modern wireless mouse with G500 body and button layout.
All they need to do with the G305 was include bluetooth and Powerplay. That's it. That's all they need to do to refresh that product. The G305 is the most perfect mouse I've ever used from its replaceable battery to its ergonomic shape. It quite literally ticks all the boxes one would want from a mouse all while providing excellent price to performance.
None of that internal battery bs or shape redesign. They don't even need to put powerplay in it. Just give me a 305 with bluetooth and I will buy five of them just in case they discontinue it.
Feels like a good place to note that they released the g pro sim racing wheel in 2023 promising an ecosystem of different rims, pedals, shifter, etc and have released a grand total of zero ecosystem items since then. It ain’t just the keyboard and mouse gang that are upset with Logitech lately.
They've also been silently killing older mice models without having a good replacement. Big fan of the g602, and the g604 was a great improvement, but now it's discontinued and there's no replacing that many buttons.
My question is where is the replacement for g604 mouse? It's second hand market prices are higher than retail.
This was all incredibly fair but I completely agree, they've lost their way. They may not be utterly lost but it'll require some hard pivots to really maintain their stance in any competitive gaming or enthusiast market
Great vid, awesome insights! Really don’t like that my MX master keeps trying to get me to map an AI prompt builder onto one of the buttons. Absolute insanity
Great video, plenty of good points backed up by data. Please could you not use two nearly identical colours in your graphs tho 5:37