Z900RS On the dyno!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2024
- Got it up to the dyno to finish off the ECU flash and tune, which can now be purchased from Moore Mafia if you have the same setup. Just mail them your CPU and they will flash it and ship it back.
Relevant mods are a K&N air filter, and a cat delete link pipe from eBay. Eliminated the "breadbox", drops almost 10lbs from the bike, and removes both CAT converters...
www.mooremafia...
@TeamMooreMafia
I’ll be honest, I’m happy with the stock exhaust, not too loud and not too quiet. You definitely need a tune to get rid of the snatchy throttle though. Plus the other little perks you get with the tune.
I never found the throttle to be snatchy, to be honest... I just ordered up a 520 conversion kit with a +3 rear sprocket... That should make things a bit more lively... haha
@@SquireSCA Hey Squire, I did the 520 with a +3 on the rear but still have a couple weeks of winter before getting it out, how do you like it? I've got a full exhaust and 2wheel flash and I'm expecting the sprocket change to take the Zed up another notch from light to light, or pulling out of the corners.
@@KB-yj5xp After a couple weeks I went back to stock... First gear got annoying, being so short... Its a weirdly geared bike. 1-5 are kinda good out of the box, but 6th is nearly useless for anything other than lazy interstate cruising... In trying to get 6th sorted, you in a way sacrifice rideability in the first 5 gears...
@@SquireSCA crap! I had a 43 with my 525 before I changed it, maybe I should have left if alone. I found with the 43 I actually used 6th a little more, anyways thanks for the reply.
@@KB-yj5xp Just because I didn't keep it, doesn't mean that you won't like it. I enjoyed the extra snap, but it did make first gear really short. The gear ratios on that bike really are wonky...
Great vid - I found it hard to get a benchmark to compare the ecu flash results to and this provided a good base line. As I understand it, your bike had the O2 sensor removed and some minor reflashing done to optimise the standard tune - that resulted in 100hp and 65.66 flbs torque on the initial run (101.48 and 66 something after tuning). My flash was done on the bike once the O2 sensor was removed and Akropovic headers fitted, no other mods. The result was 104.68hp and 66.58 flbs torque, not a great deal of difference but a bit on the hp side. Whether people think paying A$1500 for the headers is worth it is a personal judgement. It is actually a lot louder with the Akros on (with standard can) and I have fitted a Scorpion can since (mainly to stop the leaking around the join) which is not much quieter. Anyway, as you say, the numbers could be different due to environmental factors but it is good to know what the difference is reasonably accurately. As per your experience, it is way less snappy in the throttle and the extra hp is noticeable in riding it, making it much safer (extra bonus). Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the update, with all this data it make life easier to know what mods to make.
Stock header down pipes are double wall so the bore is even skinnier than you might expect.
Yeah, that was what we were thinking. The headers are a major restriction point... I could always upgrade to the Delkevic headers for like $400 and pick up at least 10hp... Tempting, but part of me says just leave it and enjoy it for what it is... Maybe that will be a project for the spring...
@@SquireSCA For reference: Akra headers and the Chinese clones (Black Widow etc) are 38mm outside diameter, so approx 36 inside? Stock Z900 are 35mm outside 32mm inside and flow well enough for 125 bhp+ on that bike with a decat pipe. Delkevic down pipes look very narrow to me but I don't have a measurement. If you ever remove the headers again I'd be interested to know the inside dia. of the downpipes. Your videos are very informative. Good work. Cheers.
@@bobbyblueace How different are the Z900 and Z900RS motors, mechanically? Motor, airbox, headers, etc...?
What we learned is that while the decat sounds great and weighs less, it doesn't make for much in the power department. The restrictions, which are confirmed by what Ivan has found, are in the headers and the airbox... I didn't think that headers would make this much difference, honestly. On other bikes I have owned, the difference between a decat/slipon and a full system, is minimal... Pick up 3-5hp on top and lose a couple down low, has been my experience...
My Street RS with a decat and slipon, picked up 7-8hp at the wheel... Going to a full system would have added that extra 3-5 at most...
This bike is a bit trial and error, as there isn't a ton of dyno data and different mod combinations out there...
Part of me likes to see the bigger number, but at the end of the day, this bike is a general use bike, and a canyon carver. It doesn't need massive power because it's not a high speed bike, relative to sportbikes...
One day if I am bored, I may install a set of headers and have it retuned and see what we get, but for now it is utterly smooth and fast and sounds great, so I don't have a strong need to keep messing with it...
@@SquireSCA Z900 has higher compression ratio but shares the same pistons so I suspect the difference comes from the Z900 cylinder block being shorter. 2017 Z900 has Z1000 cams, later years getting something very similar. More aggressive than RS cams.
Airbox intakes on top for the Z and underneath for the RS. Shorter but still odd length velocity stacks on the Z. Air filter area is actually larger on the RS so no restriction there. I couldn't say one air box was better than the other but certainly not interchangeable due to very different fuel tanks and bodywork.
Lower 1st and taller 6th in the RS gearbox.
RS is tuned for more low down torque but Z900 is not lacking in that department either. There are comparison dyno curves on a certain "motorcycle" magazine website. Google should oblige. I think the gearing changes help give the impression that the RS motor has much more low down.
Agree not to lose focus on the RS's design intent while searching for extra ponies. Having said that a Z900 spec motor in the RS would still be a very usable motorcycle.
Hey guys,Dave from Oz here.FYI, I recently installed Akra headers + DNA filter on my 2021 Z900RS.Stock muffler.Dyno figures after ECU flash = 110.7hp 67.5Ftlb Torque.It sounds amazing.Happy days 🙂
Nice! The headers really do make the biggest difference. if I ever get another Z900RS, I will be doing the full exhaust.
@@SquireSCA Yeah Dave the sound is fantastic as well & doesn't drone when just cruising along.I did the extra & had them ceramic coated & polished before the install.Stay safe mate.
A/K has a 4 into 4 full exhaust for 3 grand. Looks and sounds amazing. I got this bike a few weeks ago, brand new. I'm gonna have to put those AK pipes on it sooner than later. Love your videos.
Ah here it is. Surprised YT didn’t recommend this vid. Thanks man
Because about 25% of my content is blade and firearm related, I notice that YT tends to not promote my channel much... Some of my stuff is political as well, and Big Tech is over the top Liberal, and so I am sure that hurts me as well. Is what it is...
@@SquireSCA hey, firearms, blades, and Motorcycle’s. Can’t go wrong with any of that. 🇺🇸
@@hottotty13 If you could let Google and Social Media know that... that would be great. ;-)
Great info- thanks for the update!
Isn't technology amazing, you can now email an ECU for a tune.
Flash&pipe
Just did Akro headers and muffler, airbox mods and Ivan's flash. Don't know the HP I have but man it's not even the same bike anymore
I am sure its in the 112-115hp at the wheel range... The headers make the biggest difference.
I love these z900s......but dam I wish I wud never sold my red 84 GPZ 750 YOSHi jetted !!!
Time to check compression and cam timing you have a sick pup I have 123 rear wheel cat deleat stock map fine tuned and broke in 2000 mi Mobil 1 motorcycle oil . Also check your clutch free play possible clutch slip
Depends on the dyno... The headers are what's holding me back at this point. The power output for stock headers is roughly where it should be. Headers make a huge difference.
But the dyno itself makes a difference, or can... There is a place near me, Livengood Motorsports... Brian does great work, but his dyno reads crazy high... Stock 600's with a slipon and tune coming out with 126hp at the rear wheel? No way... I can usually tell when someone uses his dyno, because they throw out some crazy number that is 10% higher than it should be...
Doesn't mean the work he does is bad. All that matters is what you went in with, vs what it came out with, and what % the gain was.
123hp at the wheel is what Ivan is getting with his flash and tune, full exhaust, airbox mod and every tweak he could think of... If you are getting that same power just with a decat, then your dyno is either reading way high, or, you got the 1 in a million perfect unicorn motor from the factory. haha
To be clear, the motor is rated at 111hp at the crank from Kawasaki. So you getting 123hp at the rear wheel, would mean that your bike is making more like high 130's at the crank... It's highly unlikely that your motor is doing that without some serious work... Much more likely that the dyno is reading high in your case.
www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/how-much-power-does-the-2020-kawasaki-z900rs-cafe-make/
Most stock bikes make mid to high 90's at the wheel, which is inline with typical drivetrain losses from the 111hp crank rating. Mine being tuned with a little exhaust and getting 103hp, is about right. That translates to around 118hp at the crank, give or take.
I talked to Brock at Brock's performance, and he said headers make a massive difference on this bike. The stock diameter is more suited for a 600, not a 948cc bike... Getting proper headers adds around 10hp at the wheel.
Every dyno in the country will show dufrent numbers. Even with the same bike. Some dyno guys just like handing you paper that says 139hp so you don’t feel bad about spending 500$.
About to pull the trigger on my Z900RS. Hoping the throttle is not as 'off/on' as many have said. If so I'll need to ship the ECU to another country and back to get it flashed. No such service exists in mine.
Here is the thing about the average Z900RS owner, and please try not to take any offense....
This bike is bought primarily by two main groups of riders. New riders who are all into the "retro thing", and older riders looking to have the bike they remember from their childhood... I noticed the trend early on, and I even held some polls on one of the larger facebook groups, and had a couple hundred people respond, and my notion that the average buy was "boomers and hipsters" held true. Only about 10% of the people who responded, were current sportbike riders who consider themselves fast riders. 90% were newer riders, or older riders having one last go at their childhood dream bike...
Why am I saying that? Because most of what you hear about this bike, is coming from people either just starting out, or slowing down and finishing their riding careers. So things like "the suspension doesn't need any work", or the "throttle is too jerky", are coming from one of those two groups, for the most part. If you are used to sportbikes, then the suspension will feel soft and the throttle will feel fine. If you are a new rider coming from a Ninja 300, it will feel like untamed beast... If you are an older slower rider used to just rolling around the countryside on soft sport tourers, it might feel a bit abrupt... It's all a matter of perspective and what you are used to... I am from the world of Super Dukes, literbikes, Monsters, Panigale, Tuono, Speed Triple and others... so to me, it seems soft and tame out of the box.
So always take comments and things with a grain of salt, I guess is what I am saying. YOU ride it and see how it feels to YOU, and based on that, decide what, if anything that it needs...
@@SquireSCA cant agree with you more. as a new rider coming from a triumph bonnie, z900rs appeared to be a beast in the first 1000km, now i have done the breaking-in, its now all tamed and domesticated. Snatchy throttle? just ride with the 2nd gear and above.
While I agree with this statement I have ridden some newer bikes this year and Kawasaki has by far got the worst fueling on the throttle cut. Even the verys is this way. Suzuki isn't far behind. Honda has it really good and triumph and BMW have it sorted out fully. Feels seamless. These are all 100 HP bikes I rode
By a way of comparison, my 03 model dyno'd at 132.14 rwhp ..
03 model of what? The older Z1000's made more power than the 900 by a good measure. The last gen Z1000 would make up into the 140's at the wheel if you did all of Ivan's mods and ECU flash... This isn't the same motor though...
@@SquireSCA Indeed a 03 Z1000 [actual ] 953cc. Mods, PC3, DNA filter and Top, Two brother Titanium cans M3 ? ,stock headers, 35000km.
@DFV Maybe, maybe now. The 87 Elim made less power, and weighed a good bit more. What it would have going for it is being long and low, so easier to launch without wheelying, I guess...
But show it a turn, and the older bike will be left behind like it was chained to a post...
@DFV Never ran one of them so I don't know. I do know that they came with skinny 150 rear tires, shaft drive and only made around 100hp, while weighing well over 500lbs... I don't know how that translates to a rocket ship by today's standards, no offense... Other than perhaps it being long, low and heavy, helps get it off the line easier... while the sportbike is trying to flick the rider off on a hard launch... My point is that it probably comes down to rider, more than the bike at that point. A skilled rider on the sportbike that has less weight and an extra 50hp, or more.... should win on anything but really short races...
I had a Street Cup that barely made 64hp, and if I limited the drag race to something really short, I could beat a lot of sportbikes, because I could launch it stupid hard and not have to worry about it flinging me off... But the second the sportbike hit its stride it was like I went in reverse...
@DFV Of that decade. LOL
Today you have front tires that are wider in some cases... hehe
Dave playing with his bikes again. LOL
Smooth power delivery is what’s it’s all about.
The only one that needs more than 100H/P on a 900RS is you, the rest of us just want more H/P 😂
I love big power... but I know that I bought this bike because it was balanced and cool... I have the ZX6R if I want to go faster, I can jump on the Street RS if I want to do wheelies for days... This bike is awesome now that its dialed in and the suspension is set up...
At some point, I might get the Akra headers and get it tuned... Even without the airbox mods, that would get it up into the 115hp range... Its tempting, but that's another grand for the pipe and retune...
heard it even before tune on the last clip, the annoyingly strained roar seems to be gone, so guess it's breathing free. you got rid of the dent in the mids? too sad we did not see the chart b4 tune and w cat. 👍
Tuner is using back brake to slow down dyno!! Never do you do that, unless you like squaring off the tyres..?
Its not gonna square off the tire any more than accelerating on the dyno is gonna do...
Lol , I like ur 636 bettr😎
Will a decat help with the vibes ? My hands go numb .
Not sure, but probably not. Some bikes just have vibes. You could try some of those thicker foam style grips?
Hola, cual es el proceso para sacar el catalizador, y donde compraste la adaptación?
Not sure exactly what you are asking?
0:58…. How does one email an ecu? 🤣
Ummm... Well... Hmmmm.... LOL
why is there 350 tag on the bike? haha
Service ticket from the shop doing the dyno work
Smoother throttle with less than 5hp increase? Not sure about the bang for the buck?
Yeah, part of me was hoping for bigger gains, but it's not the tuner's fault. The bike makes what it makes, and those stock headers, while pretty to look at, are holding it back. I will say that it is smoother, and the midrange where it was lean, has picked up a bit of response... There is no lag anywhere now... the tiniest touch of the throttle has immediate response...
@@SquireSCA When I quit suffering from my disease called L-A-Z-Y, I am going to do the Ivan's mod. I have used both Ivan's stuff on ZX14's (I had a 2007 & 2009) and Brock's on my ZX10R. Both of those tuners deliver as advertised. I do like and appreciate Chris Moore as well. I will do Ivan's because he actually posts dyno charts and details so you know what you are getting in a wide range of configurations. My L-A_Z-Y disease is what is standing in the way of removing the airbox to mod it. But I do want that 121hp peak. I love my cafe 900 but it just falls flat at 8500 and I want it to pull to redline. Nice bike BTW and like your bars!
@@zrx338 Falling flat at 8500 is the soft secondary butterflies and the ignition timing that they pull. You won't get the 121hp with stock exhaust and airbox and a flash, but you will get it to pull hard right to the rev limiter with their flash...
How many horsepower gain was it again ?
Only a couple, but looking at peak doesn't tell the whole story... It became smoother with better throttle response and ran a tad cooler. If I had done the headers, we would be looking at another 10hp...
he doesnt know if its something he can disable or not ?!
this is literally what we argue about on the forum, shops that dont nix the fuel cutoff, or dont know how or need three tries to figure it out
this is why we all just use ivan
Well, this was the first one Chris had on his dyno, and he uses the Woolich software, so he needed to get the ECU hooked up and see if Woolich allowed that for this particular bike. And people do argue about it, but people argue about things that don't really matter, all the time. lol
I never found the bike to be twitchy, so the fuel cut on that bike just never really bothered me, so it wasn't a problem either way if Woolich could disable it or not.
@@SquireSCA maybe I'm being oversensitive, but I know those little rooms are expensive, so I'm very hyperfixated on hearing the exact correct things
@@jean-pierrefernandez2460 It's not a high powered bike. I was just concerned with making sure that its running right and that the motor is happy. My fast bikes, I take more time with and want every last bit of HP out of them...
@@SquireSCA the gaines are so easy on the z900, what other machine lets you gain 20 hp just by taking the seat and gas tank off
@@jean-pierrefernandez2460 You can gain almost 50hp at redline on a ZX10R, just by flashing the stock bike's ECU. haha
I know that there are gains there, but I am used to riding R1's and ZX14R's and Ducati 1198's and things like that... I wanted the Z900RS to be tuned right, but if I want to go fast, I grab one of the other bikes made for that purpose. 🙂
SwEET!!!
2 hp not worth the waste of money
headers get you more. If you only look a peak HP gains, then you sorta miss the point. The bike ran better and had better throttle response, etc...