Music Chat: Apple Classical Is Here! Hooray?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 มี.ค. 2023
- Join me for some first impressions of Apple's comprehensive new classical music streaming service, which naturally promises to be all things to all listeners. Is it? What do you think?
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What I’d love to see the LINER NOTES included! Primephonic did that shortly before their demise. 😞
That's funny, because after using the app, I was just thinking that Apple should IMMEDIATELY hire you as their in-house critic/curator for recommendations. Are you listening, Apple? Given that we are now in the streaming era, perhaps you could do something like this once a month. Thank you very much, Dave!
A bit too sycophantic, perhaps?
I agree. They should hire Dave.
They should hire me as a QA / product owner.
Dear David. I know Apple broke gapless playback with IOS 16.2 but fixed it with 16.3 so if you have not updated that might explain the breaks, although of course it does depend on whether the work has been set up for gapless playback in the first place. Thank you for all you do.
What I wish Apple or Spotify or some other app would do is this: put every single Big Box from DG, Sony, RCA, EMI and every other else online. Make each box a separate, easy to navigate folder. Then I can get rid of my doorstops.
It’s good to keep your doorstops because licensing expires and you may not be able to stream this stuff at a future point. Or have to get another service subscription. At least I don’t plan to lose mine, even though I definitely stream far more often than play my CD’s and LP’s anymore.
Yes please. Start with the Philips Complete Mozart Edition.
Spotify and Amazon have a quite a few of the big boxes complete. So does NML.
If you have it as a digital version (ie not streamed) then there's nothing to stop you from creating and organising that folder yourself. You could probably set them up as your own playlists in Spotify to the same end.
@@jimcarlile7238, so does Presto.
I wrestled with even putting different movements into separate tracks. It always made sense to me that the complaints about tracks being out of order, mixed up with other pieces, and gaps in between (or even worse, ads) could easily be solved by uploading the entire piece as one track.
But then it's very hard to skip to the start of movements. (This could be solved by having timestamp shortcuts, like regular TH-cam allows, but no streaming audio platform has this feature that I know of.)
In terms of payment, labels only get paid an average of $0.004 per play of each track (after the first 30 seconds are listened to), meaning that's all they'd get for a whole Mahler symphony if it were uploaded as one track - not that getting paid $0.016 for the four movements of a symphony is much better, particularly when the tracks only get a few hundred plays. (This could be solved by paying per minute listened to, but only IDAGIO does that; Primephonic used to, but it didn't carry over to Apple Music Classical.)
Lots of people, especially beginners/musical dilettantes, enjoy listening to single movements and adding them to their playlists. Barely anyone would ever add the entire Mahler 5 to a playlist, but lots of people would happily add the Adagietto. The first movement of the Moonlight Sonata is far more popular than the other two. Etc. (Lots of people use classical music, mixed with other music, such as "contemporary classical", new age, or ambient, as background for studying or relaxing, so they want tracks with a particular mood, not a complete work with all its variety and distracting dynamic range. Or they might just want the movements with familiar, upbeat tunes.)
So I end up uploading each movement as a separate track, like everyone else does.
Another problem with classical streaming is of course the metadata, but perhaps not how most people think. We all know that the classical metadata of "composer, work, movement, performers (usually plural)" is orthogonal to the standard pop metadata of "album, track, artist (usually singular)".
Apple Music set out to "fix" this by requiring the composer to be included as a contributor with the "composer" role (sensible), and then imposing strict requirements on the track title, including that the track title CANNOT include the composer name (since it was already included separately as a contributor). They will reject tracks in the classical genre that have a composer name in the track title (and hence distributors will reject it first before it even gets to Apple). (What they SHOULD have done was require a "work title" and optional "movement title" field, and let record labels manage the track title sensibly as a concise summary of what the track is, for platforms that lack the composer/work/movement fields. Apple could then just ignore and not display the track title.)
This kind of works for Apple, but the problem is this: with the exception of Spotify and IDAGIO, no other streaming platform displays a contributor field (that is, the composer name) prominently; at best, you have to drill down to track details to see it. Many of them don't support it at all and provide no way to access it. Even Apple and Spotify don't ALWAYS display the composer name in the contributor field. Thus was born the endless lists of classical works on streaming platforms by mystery composers. For instance, a double album of a half dozen French string quartets (total around 24 tracks), each by a different composer, with none of the composer names listed anywhere. Good luck if you want to find more works by that composer, if you can't even find out who the composer is.
Making this worse is distributors who will refuse to distribute the same tracks under the same ISRC numbers if the metadata differs even slightly, even if the only reason for the difference was to accommodate Apple vs other platforms and how they display (or don't display) the composer name. (I end up distributing to Apple through a different aggregator than I use for other DSPs.)
One approach to alleviate these problems is to always upload each complete work as its own "album" (or "single" or "EP"), with the album title being "composer name: title of work". Then to play that piece, you just play the album, and the composer name is always in the album title.
I think what Dave meant with splitting tracks was when movements themselves are split into tracks, such as with the Karajan live Mahler 9, where each movement is split into about 5 or 6 separate tracks. This does present an advantage regarding royalties, like you mentioned, since they would earn 5 or 6 times more for each (fairly long) movement.
@@epon1357 Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification and insight. I had no idea anyone was actually releasing movements on streaming split into multiple tracks, though of course transitions between movements without a pause would also pose a dilemma (at least partly solved with gapless streaming).
I was looking for the 1953 Serafin/Callas recording of Cavalleria Rusticana and it was picked as the editors choice, which is tasteful and a cool feature as long as it consistently features good recordings for beginners especially.
I’m still beholden to product. I love pouring through box sets disc by disc. (Right now the Goebel box.) It’s more expensive of course but with the big boxes that are available now at such affordable prices, it’s pretty reasonable. I noticed that Apple doesn’t have everything in the group Goebels box. It has a lot but not everything.
I’ve listened to six of The Story of Classical episodes and think the series is very very good. They include illustrative excerpts and they are long enough that you get a good idea of the music. (The Romantic period episode ends with a good chunk of the last movement of Mahler’s 9th Symphony).
The search function and the browsing hierarchy are optimized for Classical music and work really well. If the acid test is “can you find the music you are looking for?” they’ve got it right. I think that Apple Music Classical is a great addition to the classical music universe.
As to gapless playback, I haven’t found anything that has the problem. What is an example?
I spoke to Apple a year ago re: a similar problem, and they told me that the track layout, etc. is dictated by the labels. They have no control of the albums they receive from them.
Is "the story of classical" an Apple exclusive or can I find it elsewhere? (I don't mind exclusives if it is something they commissioned themselves, but I really hate the idea of them paying labels to keep stuff exclusive - those sorts of exclusives are terrible for consumers in general.)
@@TomsDone I’m sure it is exclusive. The narrator, Guy Jones, is the editor of Apple Classical.
Gapless playback isn’t a problem anymore. Dave is talking about a VERY OLD problem going back to the heyday of the iPod, when separate tracks that were supposed to be seamlessly linked had that pause. If anyone hears a gap that isn’t supposed to be there, that’s a source material problem, not an Apple Music issue.
I agree, it’s a really good series.
Interesting, illuminating and amusing! I followed your exploration of the app on my own phone.😊
That Dai Fujikura - Mirrors album is excellent, the Bassoon Concerto is insane.
The app Primephonic was very good. I wonder if Apple has incorporated all the good features Primephonic had? If so, it’s worth trying. I’ve been using Spotify again lately and, for classical, it’s gotten better-not just the selection but the presentation.
A wholehearted "Aye." I've yet to come across a streaming service to package "classical" music in a way that has utility for the specialist audience. All these things make me glad that I maintain my own library, which in itself is becoming a bit dinosaurish.
Glad you covered this new service and I'll subscribe for a month to check it out. I'm currently a TIDAL annual subscriber.
I hope we'll see an Apple Classical app for Mac OS and Windows at some point; Android is confirmed to be on the way.
I am a little concerned with exclusives because it just seems pompous and, for those of us who primarily stream, just adds to the monthly expense if we have to subscribe to more than one service. Yes, streaming music is an incredible bargain so I really shouldn't complain.
Thank You so much for clarifying that this new, highly touted service, still does not support gapless playback.
TH-cam is a great source for listening to Classical music. They have a vast library with contributors dedicated to making the music available. And they have the best critic imaginable to help guide us through it all. You talked about the interruptions and cutoffs on other apps, David. That’s the only complaint I have about TH-cam’s service. I’ll be listening to, say, a symphony, and ads pop up between movements; sometimes right in the middle of a movement. Now I know I can pay for ad free music. But I’m a miser! Oh, one other annoyance is having to go back after movement 1 and find the 2nd and so on. Sometimes there’s, say, no movement 3 to be found. Then again, this isn’t always the case. There ARE complete pieces to be had uninterrupted. It’s about 60%-40%, somewhere in that range. But, overall, it’s a valuable tool to have at one’s fingertips.
Agreed - TH-cam has become an incredible resource for classical music performances. But you really do need to get TH-cam Premium to dispense with the ads. The cost is actually quite reasonable if you can do it as part of a family plan (or if you compare it to the cost of alternatives).
Yeah, I probably should get it. On a larger scale it’s like my hesitancy to get a cel phone. I find the cost prohibitive. I just can’t seem to pull the trigger.
Have you done a review of Presto’s app and streaming service?
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but the TH-cam Music app (on Android at least) features gapless playback.
This coincides with the announcement of Presto Music’s streaming service that focuses on classical and jazz.
Absolutely agree about gaps, especially when listening to opera. My experience, for what it’s worth is that Spotify has managed to eliminate the gaps, what would be really helpful would be a comparison of the various Platforms.
How do they gain their content? Is there any different repertoire on say Spotify compared with Apple and Amazon?
No booklets though, eh? What I like about Naxos Music Library (and Qobuz to a certain extent) is that they provide quite a bit of the original literature. I get NML free through the NYPL -- they traded it off a few years ago for Kanopy.
I just checked and it’s now available on my iPad (April 3). But given the “speed bump” TH-cam it is until/unless Apple can do something about it.
The track gap issue is very much there. The Zarathustra with Jansons and the Concertgebouw strangely enough has gaps between the 2nd and 3rd tracks and between the 3rd and 4th but the same recording doesn't have the gaps on the regular Apple Music app. Go figure!
I saw a screenshot of it where every recommended version of a piece (I think Rhapsody in Blue) was from a British orchestra/soloist and I just immediately assumed - "ohhhh, they're pulling their curation from Gramophone/Penguin'
I just played the Stravinsky/Mäkelä album in the Apple Classical app, and it plays without any gaps between tracks. Perhaps there’s an issue with your phone?
Nope.
I had the same gap issue with the same album-I was playing it while prepping and then cooking in the kitchen via one of my HomePod minis. When the album completed and played again, through eating the meal, it had no gaps whatsoever. So it might have been a buffering glitch the first time? I'm not sure, only that it was an issue the first time through but not on the repeat.
This could be a problem that occurs on some devices but not others. I use Deezer, which has a huge selection of classical music but without much curating. It is gapless on my phone and tablet but has gaps on my PC. No amount of updates have fixed the problem. Maybe this is a similar situation?
@@andrasvrolok9848 Yes, I forgot about that, but I’ve had that happening, too! When I then returned to the previous track and let it play from the final fifteen seconds, the the transition was gapless. Annoying, and an obvious bug, and as G G says, it can be device dependent.
I’ve been an Apple Music user as long as there’s been an Apple Music. Something I don’t understand, I search, say Ernest Ansermet in Apple Music and a ton of stuff comes up. Do the same in Apple Classical, no where near the same amount of titles.
First, they need to stop calling the tracks "songs" 🙄
Second, need multiple search parameters ("Scimone, Rossini, Gasdia", "Cavalleria, Gigli,
They **are** called TRACKS in the classical app.
They aren't "songs" in the classical app, unless they ARE songs.
Who will stream Hyperion's catalogue? That's my burning question. I've been a qobuz subscriber since they first started out in France. Still have not found a better alternative.
I'm still trying to figure out why anybody would want to listen to classical music on a iPhone ! I'm kinda old fashion: Good audio equipment, decent size room, Cd collection and a hour or more of free time to really "listen" to music. Music "on the go" has no appeal to me but I guess I'm showing my age !
You can connect the phone to a stereo system with an adapter and a USB cable. And if you work in an office, noise canceling Bluetooth headphones enable you to listen "on the sit" as well as "on the go."
For the convenience. Classical music by any means is a good thing.
@@poturbg8698 Yes and there's the issue of the battery in the iPhone. I see all of these recharging fools with their cords frantically looking for somewhere to plug it in. To use the iPhone to access music still seems like an unnecessary ste 1. Excuse me while I pop in my Cd.
Once again I will recommend Classical Archives for those of us that are somewhat in the know and want to explore lesser known works. The layout is more useful.
Your "mmmaaaahhhh" was reminiscent of the Von den Hinterweltlern section of Also Sprach Zarathustra. Intentionally?
One improvement from the regular Apple Music is more complete information in the track listing. One thing I miss is the compilation choice under a composer name or conductor. That feature helps to find the “boxes” that you review often. Apple often breaks the boxes up into single discs or “volumes” but some things, for example the Gerard Schwartz box, are complete.😮
😢
Pretty sure it‘s not Apple breaking up anything, as they don‘t have a say in that. It‘s the labels that decide on how things are presented.
I’m sure you’re right
I use Spotify regularly and it does gapless playback quite well. As for Apple Classical, I don't see the point of having a separate app just for classical music; implementing a way of organizing classical albums in an all-purpose music app doesn't seem all that hard to me.
Can’t browse my library by composer which is what I was hoping for
Forget all this! Give me an Ormandy stereo box, Isser-Schmit box, reprint the Handel oratorio box, etc!!
😊😊😊
Oh, an Ormandy stereo box. Yes! 😊
I only have an iPad, where the app apparently is only the phone version right now, which is disappointing. The exclusive live stuff seems somewhat interesting, but we'll see how "exclusive" those things really are. (plenty of VPO concerts are broadcast on the radio, for instance)
As far as systematic searches are concerned, idagio still seems superior, although the version differences are also frustrating there.
its on ipad now, the interface not much bigger than iphone though
@@robj7386 I meant that the iPad version is simply an enlarged phone version, rather than one dedicated for tablets.
@@matthiasm4299 yes, i bet they fix it up, even the search ability
I’m not getting it because I already have Spotify and it has all the same stuff.
I use Spotify and there are no problems with breaks on that service. For example they have Karajan’s live Mahler 9, which is something like 25 tracks the way DG did it (it’s the same on the CD), but it plays without anything audible at each track break. I haven’t used any other streaming service, but I will offer my personal experience with Spotify as being a positive one in that regard.
Thanks for the review and discussion, it was quite informative.
Hi Dave! Thanks for this review! The breaks problem is resolved in Spotify if you turn on "Gapless playback"(also you should turn off shuffle). Personally I'm satisfied with Spotify, it works for me.
You shouldn't have to "turn on" anything. That should be the default setting.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, I agree.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It appears to be the default for the Apple app.
I don’t like Spotify for the sound quality. I much prefer Tidal Masters and even Apple music lossless. Being an audiophile with hi-end gear, I can’t listen to lower bit rate streaming. Spotify is one of the worst when it comes to paying artists too.
@@georgebradley419 I know Spotify has the worst audio quality. But for me convenience of the interface and organizing playlists do the job. I don't find any of the other streaming services to be as persuasive in that respect. That's me, everyone will have their own preferences :)
I don't have any argument with Spotify, as there are no breaks between movements or tracks on an album. The only thing I don't like is the way they call a movement or instrumental piece a 'song.' There are also no sleeve notes, lyrics or libretto available on PDF.
@@jayeff221 No it's not. I like it quite a bit...I have zero problems with playback, it has tons of stuff, and if you use the search correctly I can find whatever I want quickly and easily. Even though the sound is somewhat compressed, I sure can't tell the difference. Spotify is good enough that I find no compelling reason to go to the Apple product.
I could not listen to many of the Bernstein/NYPO/Mahler, digitally, because of the absurd number of tracks peppered throughout the music. Those invasive audio bumps drove me nuts.
That’s terrible that the breaks are audible.
Those extra tracks are so useful on actual CDs, but that they are audible on these streaming services is beyond absurd. 😎🎹
Hmm interesting. In terms of content, I guess my question would be why desert Spotify? But I already have my music, know what I want/like and sources to go to so I am probbaly not the audience they are looking for.... However, an interesting source for the "beginner".
or beginners: David! start a Classics Today beginner app! AI is no substitute for DAvId. Music is history, not just clumps of recordings. The dandelion Whitman saw came from something.
RIP Primphonic
Album titles like "Moon and Water" (for Debussy Preludes) have been around in CDs and downloadable files for years. Yes, they are ridiculous, but Apple's app isn't their source.
I’m sure he knows that, he was just reacting to them accordingly.
Exactly. Stupid titles are common.
I used Primephonic briefly before Apple acquired it. I now use Qobuz. Not perfect but very good. Judging from your description this sounds way too convoluted for my tastes.
From your description of the app, it looks a lot like the idagio app. Lots of good stuff, but the main screen is full of non-musical gunk.
I couldn't agree more, Dave, with your assessment. Classical music should be heard as the composer intended. Long live the tangible object (the cd or vinyl) as the best source for musical pleasure. Keep it going, Dave. I'm 82, and still learning, thanks to folks like you.
I'm wondering why he's having this problem. All streaming services are pretty much gapless. I use Qobuz and never encounter the problem on any classical piece - no matter the length. I use android. I'm wondering if Apple has a setting that requires turning on gapless.
Not that I've noticed.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Very puzzling. I used Spotify before Qobuz and every classical piece also on that platform was exactly the same as the CD. Hope you can fix the problem. Good luck.
The little sniglets are recorded that way. Apple are only presenting what they have been given. Yes it's annoying. Rite of Spring is often snigletized.
I hope Hyperion is added to the App. now that Universal will probably be dissolving or downsizing the label through the merger/takeover.
honestly I think too much is too much... C.H talks about it a lot these days in Montreal. And we forget that to take full advantage of it you have to be well equipped very well equipped in terms of sound reproduction...... the choice of course is so vast on the web now and ...... if we listened to our entire discotheque again now, would we have enough time for the rest of our lives ....?
You don't have to be well equipped electronically to listen. If you have an iPhone or iPad plus wireless earbuds or Bluetooth headphones, you're all set. If you want to hear this app on a "big rig," if the preamp or AVR has a USB input, there is a $20 adapter that will hook you up.
@@poturbg8698 I couldn't agree more 👍
Your final comments about breaks being noticeable in streaming apps is largely why to me the CD will always be essential. Don't get me wrong, I love streaming services to initially listen to a piece of music, but if I want to keep it, I'll always buy the CD. I actually rarely listen to music on a CD anymore, but If I have the CD I can rip it to iTunes (Now The Apple Music App on my computer), organize and tag it the way I want and listen to the music without any noticeable breaks. I of course knew this for myself, but thanks for clarifying to me the reason why I continue to spend inordinate amounts of money on CDs.
Except that most likely it was just an iOS bug which has already been patched.
I don’t understand the “breaks” issue you’re referring to. I have had no trouble hearing longer works uninterrupted on this app. I listened to Shaker Loops by John Adams (Edo de Wart, SF Symphony) and heard no unwanted breaks. Also, have you tried to look up, say, a symphony? It will show you the entire thing, all movements intended by the composer in the correct order - no “excerpts” if you don’t want any. I do not see anything “anti-classical” in this app so far.
I understand it. I had to give up on Qobuz, no matter how many adjustments I made or fixes they suggested there were still micro breaks in the listening experience. It was fine on the phone but I wanted a high end audio experience, which it was anything but.
@@michaelfurbank3504 I’ve never heard of Qobuz. What we’re discussing here is the Apple Classical app. I have heard no “breaks” where they don’t belong.
@@michaelfurbank3504 Qobuz has a lot of classical albums where the files were already delivered wrong like that, mostly from Universal Music back catalogue titles, *not* the newer ones. Many of the same albums are perfectly gapless on Apple Music, though.
I think some streaming services are better than others with having "gapless" playback. Which is a must have while listening to operas.
I've never had this problem on Apple Music. Also I find that most recordings don't break up long movements of symphonies into short sections anyway. Just checked a bunch of Mahler symphonies in my library - some half hour movements as one "song", no problem.
Apple has bought Primephonic - a Dutch company affiliated to the Pentatone label - in order to create this app.
I’ve been maintaining a similar app called Concertino for some years. It works the same exact way the Apple Classical does, but without all the beginners thing and the corporate PR crap.
The metadata stuff is pretty hard and resource consuming to do, and kudos to them for that. But they present all the information in such a lousy and confusing way - the user interface is really bad.
I haven’t had issues with gaps. Perhaps it’s your internet? Maybe try downloading the music and see if it improves
No, it's not the phone or the internet. It's the service. Many others have the same issue.
GAPLESS!
These kind of apps are never designed to serve classical music. They are designed to host popular music, songs, bits and pieces. Moreover, everything nowadays is produced to serve young people and finding classical works en listening to them the way we want to does not fit that modern system. And of course Apple does not design a completely new format, just for classical music lovers. We are a minority. The big money is elsewhere.
Meh. 5 thumbs down! As much as I love Apple, the computer, I do not want to be spoonfed art from an 'AI genius'. I'd rather get my. Music Word of mouth, or eye to paper you know what I mean. Now, I do buy all my music in digital form. But I buy FLAC and I also have audio engine speakers with a big wolfer.I can't imagine anyone really enjoying music on AirPods below midrange, much less from a tinny iPhone, but hey to each his own
You can connect the iPhone to an AVR or DAC, which bypasses the phone's DAC. Sounds decent.
I have never understood why the record companies split homogenous ‘movements’ into random chunks - this started happening when CDs came on the scene - LPs only did this when they were unable to physically fit a movement onto a single side. For example I have a number of recordings of the Liszt Sonata - where the recording is broken into a random number of tracks - why? This has encouraged the numpties at the streaming services to do likewise when delivering classical ‘songs’. They treat each track as a ‘song’. Well done Apple for waking up to the fact that Classical Music needs different curation to Popular Music - but still a long way to go. BTW have you tried Presto Classical streaming? That should be better but ….
Can’t see why it took Apple couple years post acquisition of Primephonic to come up with this…a childish, watered down version. Was a bit disappointed after waiting so long. I think IDAGIO classical app is the way to go.
I’ve got a iPhone & a Mac & that’s enough Apple for me.
Never had a paid streaming service in my life & I don’t want one.
That was helpful.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Sorry Dave
I'm an Android user so that counts me out.
Apple formally stated Android app is in development. Could take a while though.
@@sjc1204 Thanks for your comment. I'll keep looking out for it. Having said that, it's unlike Apple to help the opposition.