Jonathan...with all due respect, you come across as jaded, arrogant, and perhaps a little bitter in this video. While I believe your heart is in the right place about music, I think you are only seeing what you want to see in the industry. PEOPLE STILL LOVE MUSIC! You seem angry that they don't want to spend exorbitant money to buy "high end" gear to enjoy music. Largely, you're right - and they don't have to anymore. The average "mid-fi" system sold at Best Buy today easily outperforms so-called "high-end" systems of the past in many measurable ways, including being half the cost. Technology has advanced as well as the understanding of what makes great sound. Passion still exists, but styles change over time. Car guys who passionately built hot rods in the '50's changed to muscle cars in the '60's, British sports cars in the 70's, German cars in the '80's, rice burners in the '90's, super cars in the 2000's...etc. You can't say that the passion for cars is dead because building hot rods in the back yard from old parts is not the mainstream choice anymore. Today, I see young guys with ALOT of passion about their music - and are willing to spend thousands on high-end headphones, DACs, streamers, and even flea-watt tube amps to enjoy it. Other people spend hundreds, even thousands to go see their favorite musicians in live concert. And the people that design and build and install and run these multi-million dollar live sound rigs DO care about great sound, and it is getting better every year. Is it the same as sitting quietly between 2 speakers at home and spinning vinyl? No, but it is about the passion and experience of music, and it is far better than the systems of the past. I have musician friends who will talk for HOURS about the SQ differences between microphones, or what different drumheads sound like on stage or in the studio. I would encourage you to see the passion for music where it IS, not where YOU think it should be. You'll find plenty of people out there who still care about great sound. Change with the times, or get left behind in obscurity and irrelevance.
A quick google search shows The Absolute Sound (Fremer) covered OMA's K5 turntable at the Munich show last year. It takes a lot of hubris to trash audio magazines while holding up issues where OMA has a featured review of their 6-figure turntable on the cover.
One of my pet theories is that listening pleasure started to go downhill when stereo was introduced. There’s something asocial and amusical about sitting still in the perfect sweet spot, exactly midway between two speakers, facing straight ahead and with closed eyes. Especially since the only bonus of doing so is the ability to point at the position of the different musicians in the recording. My motto must be back to Mono. Just imagine purchasing one great speaker instead of two less so (same price budget), and the same goes for amplification. Just imagine being able to listening to music on a great mono system with friends sitting together, rather than having to change seats with them regularly so everyone will get their fair share of some imaginary bliss of a pin point stereo focus. For me timbre, texture and dynamics is the key to musical enjoyment not stereo precision. Greetings from Denmark
Get thee to thine Echo Dot, Sirrah ! You talk the damnedest Heresy and will find thyself condemned to have thine liver consumed by a Feral and Voracious Wiim streamer each day, till it regrows at sunset. Or SunSET as true Audiophiles do name it. I havent watched the video yet but that bloke radiates SMUG like a KT150 radiates heat.
There's a lot of truth to your comment. We recently bought one floor model of B&O A9 for the living room. Both my wife and non-audiophile son loved the music it produced. It's not cheap, it's mono, but it's very simple to use (stream from any phones) and it produces great sound both at low and high volume. Oh, and it looks great in the corner of the room with a custom cover on.
Jonathan creates a video about the future of high end audio. A topic he then does not discuss. Instead he craps on anyone stupid enough to be part of the market his company caters to. He craps on the magazines that he ever so casually ensures you notice that has OMA on the cover. Not sure what this was supposed to do other than waste 13.15 mins of my day.
That would be a great segment of you putting an amazing stereo with proper sound off eBay/using vintage pieces. While doing it educating us young people who never grew up with great sound.
You make home stereos that often cost more than most people's homes. OMA is clearly a member of the club you don't seem to approve of. Here's an idea. Why don't you make a $15k-$20k system like you could buy used on EBay for those of us who love the music more than the equipment?
also - “The suffix "-phile" means "lover of" or "enthusiast of". It's often used in scientific and everyday terms, especially in biology and psychology” 😊
This seems a bit hypocritical. The guy creates and sells beautiful super high-end audio equipment, that the average music loving Joe could never afford. He is catering for the very few who can purchase such equipment, largely as that status symbol he’s rallying against here. Why else would one spend 10s of thousands on the equipment he and others make, who’s audio quality despite I assume being very good, is at diminishing returns, compared to much cheaper equipment that’ll still give you that enjoyment of the music, if that’s what important. He seems to be shooting himself in the foot. If a person genuinely loves music, and that’s the main driving force, as he encourages. And not the quality of the bass, high end, soundstage etc…(audiophile parlance 😉) which doesn’t affect the “enjoyment” of music anyway. Is also subjective and differs from person to person. You can get that from a smartphone and headphones, why buy his stuff? Not that I wouldn’t if I could, it’s beautiful high quality product, so why not? But he seems to be making an argument against what he does for a living, and doesn’t seem to be clear about what he wants to get across here. Anyway, first world problems. I still admire what he and his company make.
Well-said. He wants you to thread a needle and presume that his fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only, or is primarily for real music lovers, whereas other fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only for equipment lovers.
I dont entirely disagree with you David, but the "quality of the bass, soundstage etc." is what audiophilia is all about and does indeed affect the enjoyment of the music. Thats not to say the music itself isnt the main thing, and can be enjoyed independantly of its reproduction. Sometimes a song on a transistor radio can have more emotional impact than the same song on a high end stereo. If, for example you are sitting round a fire on a lonely beach in the Western Islands of Scotland, holding the hand of the love of your life, as opposed to sitting by yourself in a soundproof basement. However, under most circumstances Id rather hear the song reproduced in the best way possible. Edit: Dont forget. Smokey the bear says be careful building fires in the wilderness, and actually Ultimate Ears Bluetooth speakers are a better choice for beaches.
@ I agree too. A good quality recording (the most important aspect when it comes to sound quality, as you need a strong base to start with!) played through a very high-quality playback system can add to the enjoyment, but it’s not essential for that enjoyment, is what I’m saying. And when I said diminishing returns, I meant that I don’t believe say a $50,000 speaker setup is going to sound proportionately better than a $5,000 one. As for the differing sound qualities of amps, from experience that’s very subjective, if there at all. Most don’t have “golden” ears (if such a thing exists) and are going to struggle to tell the difference between the “sound” of different amps. But again, I appreciate the quality and or jewel like aspect if you like, of such gear.
"Ya get more mileage from a cheap pair of speakers..." Billy Joel had it right. Joy is not in things. That's hard, cause filling up the hole that modern life digs is frightening.
I love music. Specifically jazz. I’m also a veteran with some hearing issues. So, that being said, I only have to spend money for equipment that works foe ME. I can appreciate equipment like you produce, I really can, but it’s not in the realm of someone like me that will never be able to appreciate its full potential. Now I’m also 77 years young and have been buying equipment since I was in my early 20s. Audiophiles wouldn’t even give me the time of day because of my system, and that’s sad, but I don’t care because it WORKS FOR ME. Love you site. Keep up the good work.
Good for you. Do what works best for you. You're not alone; most everyone (let's say, the more mature demographic) who buys high end equipment has heavily compromised hearing. It's the elephant in the room. 'Get this uber DAC, get this diamond cantilever cartridge!', etc, etc. Buddy, your hearing is down probably 30dB at critical frequencies! Father Time, forever undefeated. As is human folly.
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708 it sounds absolutely fantastic 😊 coming from someone who heard a full oma system at their dumbo location. Totally natural sound, almost weird to experience it
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708I simply don’t know🤔… I heard the Fleetwood Deville but that is just a mediocre loudspeaker. Old-fashioned in a negative sense. Never heard their top of the line products.
I love your videos and highly respect your opinion expressed therein, but as a linguist, have to disagree with you on the use of the pre- and suffix “phil”, both in meaning and connotation, as it is used to express love, not the excess or pathology thereof. As a philanthropist (pun intended), not to mention philosophically speaking (more puns), one would be hard-pressed to come up with many more negative examples such as the one you used (the vile nature whereof is implied in the psychology of the subject matter itself rather than the terminology). The term “audiophile”, as far as I understand it, applies both to those who use a system to listen to music, as well as those you’re alluding to, who use music to listen to a system. I’m a music lover myself and have no problem referring to myself as an audiophile. My audiophile acquaintance covers the whole spectrum, so that there are those with whom I’ll discuss classical music primarily, and the fact alone that once in a blue moon they’ll inquire about hum caused by their phono stage doesn’t prove they’re in any way more interested in gear than music. Besides, as someone who started designing and building loudspeakers myself from the age of 14 or 15, out of disappointment of the inability of commercially available ones to convey the sound of a piano as I heard it on a regular basis when my sister practiced on our late grandmother’s Steinway, I recognize a fellow audiophile in you, someone who’s organized gatherings of likeminded “philes” and spent a lifetime pursuing the improvement of the sound of music. There’s a factor of intelligibility or lack thereof of e.g. speech in an opera, a play or even an audiobook where the two types of audiophiles meet, which happens to be where our ability to distinguish between instrument (makers), artists and interpretations of compositions becomes compromised. This fine line is where we all meet, as audiophiles, human beings who appreciate the sound of…
Im thinking about to set up a good stereo system in the physics room in my school. Maybe a regular, midday break music session could give some kids an idea, what a powerful experience listening is. The music could / should change through all genres, but should be analog or at least from a physical format. Something as an alternative to spending your break on your phone. Even our music teacher uses a wireless, portable speaker. Non of the parents got a decent stereo setup. Maybe i should try it. Greetings from Germany.
That was how I first was exposed to a well set up hifi. In school, in the music classroom, the system was Philips not too fancy but with speakers in the right place. We could bring our own lps. That impressed me for life. That was i 1976.
You're talking about listening to the system through the music rather than the other way around. Admittedly, I've put on a CD or vinyl record because of the way it sounds through my system but only if I enjoy the music in the first place. All audiophiles began their obsession because they love music. It starts there. If listening to music to you doesn't go beyond turning on the radio, then you could never become an audiophile. If it means a lot more, look out, because once you take that first step into audiophilia, if you're not careful and disciplined, you can be sucked into this vortex of buying and trading up your equipment in search of the holy grail. And it never ends until you get burned out or go broke.
I found the Genelec glm/sam/aes/ebu digital master series. There has been no return to any high end brand with passive speakers, because they already lag behind in sound quality characteristics. And quite hifi in use in the living room with an audio streamer. Most of humanity walks with their eyes closed. Every single second, minute, month and year searching for the edge areas of passive hifi/high end in the swamp. Active speakers (GENELEC) dsp room correction with measurements is the only way to your complete happiness.
the best I know is listening to my records in the late night (low volume) HiFi disappears and music appears (I do have high sensitivity (DIY) speakers driven by low-power tube amp)
Great idea for an audio rug on your part. Congrats. A central part if my upgraded audio system is powered by a little, low power Pathos Hybrid Tube Amp. It's a little mighty might..looks adorable, & sounds so sweet. One of my absolute fav end-gane audio pieces. 😮😅
Ive rewatched this video and my initial frustration and emotional reaction to Jonathans overweening smug, patronising attitude has subsided. He has a point. But his point is undermined by his complete failure to acknowledge that OMA is a big f'ing tree in that dark forest and his company feeds that consumption despite the fact that, I suspect, he would rather appear in the art and design sections of broadsheets than the hifi mags. Its the same old shit, mate. He says ots complex, then immediately denies that complexity by calling all audiophiles compulsive consumers, and all reviewers unemployable. Yes, there is an element of addiction in audiophiles, but that is only part of a complex story which will be different for everyone. Obsession and passion is not necessarily shallow and destructive. This is also true for the bragging rights argument. Many enthusiasts just want to discuss their systems, not brag about them. I suspect he projects his own attitudes a lot in this piece. One of the people who epitomises the attitudes he despises is Steve Huff. One of the products which raised Steve Huffs profile was a pair of Oswalds Mill speakers (Oh, the irony). He did a review where he decried the new gear merry go round and declared he had stepped off because the OMA speaker ŵere essentially perfect and he would keep them for the rest of his life. Im sure this helped sales a tad. It certainly helped Steve Huff. Then shock, horror ! Jonathan dumped in maybe $1500 worth of upgrades and announced a $7000 more expensive "Special Edition" (I guesstimate) and Steve Huff immediately sold his forever speakers, upgraded and shilled the new ones. This typifies the problem, Jonathan, and is why I cant take you seriously. As for the solution ? Simple. Be an adult. Understand your own impulses, and commercial motivations and sort the wheat from the chaff. Not always easy, but simple.
The best thing about this is going through the comments looking for the small nuggets of true wisdom. What a beautiful time to be alive. Thanks for your perspective. About the boom comments, it's probably where they were standing in the room, bass can act like that.
The mass market sales are going to dominate any industry. What we have in audio is a case of that fact. Most people live in relatively small houses or apartments and do not have space for the big old style speakers, nor 5ft tall modern high end speakers or racks of equipment. So we get offered small stuff in a million variations built to various price points. I think what Jonathan has done with OMA is fantastic, but, given the equation of property prices to salaries, I cannot see many having the opportunity to have truly great sound in their homes. When thinking about equipment, from the past, I don’t think the majority of people had the great sounding classic equipment. I have my grandparents radio, built in 1951 and it sounds glorious in a plummy voiced old style BBC fashion, but it lacks resolution and dynamics. It has strange tubes and is only a ported speaker because the back of the radio has ventilation holes! In the ‘90’s I had a working Garrard 401 and a pre-owned LP12 from about 1987. The Garrard was much better; bigger sound, more dynamic, more natural timbres, in fact just more life like, so in many ways better, and if it sounded bit more coloured I did not care.
Your final question/point reminded me of an old... joke(?). Two tourists are driving round Ireland enjoying everything about the place, but one day, while out in a remote area driving down a country lane, they decide to go to Belfast. Now, this comes from before the internet, so... so they drive around and are hopelessly lost and they pull over when they see what looks like a local walking down the lane. "Excuse me, how do we get to Belfast?" one asks. The local looks up the lane and then down the lane, thinks for a moment and then says "Well, I wouldn't start from here". We are in a world where the average person gets music for free or as close to free as makes no difference. That means it isn't considered as valuable. and if it isn't valuable why spend big on equipment when (and it's true) low to mid equipment is VERY cheap and we live in a culture of convenience. People now want everything delivered to them (on a platter) and as long as that happens, quality seems unimportant. Just look at the "Menu Log" adverts on the TV(at least here in Australia). The conundrum of the modern world, deciding which things to have made and which to buy from Ikea. Which from a local produce store/roadside farm stall and which from the supermarket. Which do you value and which just has to be good enough. Myself... I have a valve pre-amp designed and built for me by Patrick Turner (Turner Audio, an Australian legend) over 20 years ago, a pair of monoblocks (I'm trying to not mentions brands you would/could have heard of) which came from a friend who bought and sold bankrupt stock and thought I might like them, and a pair of transmission line speakers from Adelaide Speakers (based surprisingly in Adelaide) which is a 2 man operation (one builds cabinets, the other does the components). I think you can be (in industry terms) a very small boutique company, or you can be a huge worldwide corporation, but in between, you are going to have a hard time of things.
I would be very interested in what kind of system you would put together on eBay. I’m too broke to be an audiophile, based on the outrageous costs. I do enjoy listening to music and vinyl
I think, what you say is true for a minority. You can not pigeon hole everyone like this. I consider myself an audiophile just because i have passion. I doubt i have good ears. And audiophiles i know, go to live concerts. And like me, listen at home, looking for the emotion. I get tears of joy from my relatively cheap system. Audiophiles are generally well rounded people and all individual.
I have a high-end audio system that gives me great emotional highs, but I also get it from listening to my cheap factory-issue stereo system in my Mazda 6. I guess, though, because I'm an "audiophile," I must just be listening to the equipment in my car, rather than the music; or is it the equipment in my house, rather than the listening to the music there? Because I like it in both places, but at home, that much more. But Jonathan of OMA has informed me that that's not true.
Wow. To me, and just my opinion, some of what this is rather nasty and untrue. For instance: You defines the suffix "-phile" as an unhealthy obsession with something and use pedophile as a reference, as if equating audiophiles with pedophiles. That just really struck me as mean-spririted, insulting and wrong. "-phile" much more commonly just means having an affection, love or enthusiasm for something. You could have used bibliophile, cinephile, Francophile, oenophile, or any other number of words that just refer to an enthusiast or hobbyist. Or the word "philosophy," from the same Greek root. As for all audiophiles just being in it because of an unhealthy obsession with equipment and not caring about the music, bullshit. Sure, there are those audiophiles (we probably all know someone), but my guess is most of us got into this hobby first because we love music and maybe electronics, and got hooked on the idea that we could make the music we loved sound better. You refer to most audio writers/reviewers as having to sustain their careers by catering to the big amp/big speaker crowd and say most of them have no other skills and are "unemployable." That's another incorrect and mean-spirited statement, since with the exception perhaps of the principle editors like Harley and Austin, most reviewers that I know do it as a sideline and have other careers, are retired, or are independently wealthy. Herb Reichert is an artist; Roger van Bakel is a professional photography; Michael Trei does turntable setups; Ken Micaleff is a respected writer for a number of non-audio publications; Anthony Cordesman was a well-known military and defense analyst - and the list goes on. You're certainly right that your products are not the norm, but there are other makers of high efficiency speakers, horn speakers, out-of-the box tables, etc., and many of those products get press. And you've gotten favorable press as well: Stereophile did a spread on the company a few years ago, and TAS did a very favorable review of his turntable. Why so bitter?
Well said. This Jonathan guy comes across as another arrogant, self-exalted "truth-telling rebel." Generally guys like him get a couple of things right and a lot of things wrong, but speak in sweeping generalities and with great conviction as they warn you of everyone else, as they sell something of their own, in this case more high-end products. The world needs more nuance, but no one should expect it from this type of partisan speaker.
Wow, this guy is full of himself. Might attract customers of his big buck systems who probably have the same mindset. I'm still curious what Fremer with his OMA K3 turntable thinks of this. "he has nothing else to do and is basically unemployable" lol
After years of trial and errors, I finally found my music enjoyment with Shindo , Fleetwood Deville SQ and Rel.The synergy is so magical that the music finally engages me deeply.
Congrats@ I found my end-game av system with Qln Prestige Speakers & Modern McIntosh Amplifiers & a vintage oldey-but-goody OPPO Blu-ray/ Universal Player. 😂 It has a pleasant & robust sound.
OK. I’m a 70 year young man who remembers the 70’s stereo wars. When we got out of high school the first things we had to have was a fast car and a good stereo system, because we needed good equipment to listen to some of the best music ever made in the 60’s and 70’s. Seems the music dropped off when the good systems declined.
I'm 75. During the 70s, when I still lived at home, I was among a small group of us in the neighborhood into high end audio. Part of it was our love of music (it starts there), but part of it was also a male ego thing. The competition to have the best hifi system was subtle but it was there. The audio habit is overwhelmingly male. Women now compete in sports like wrestling and weightlifting, but the hifi hobby still remains mostly an all male club. Women like music as much as men, but most of them don't care that much about the gear. It's refreshing to see the few women who do.
Watching his videos for a while now, and I regard him one of the rare people in the industry who knows what he is talking about and has the laid back attitude to be able to talk honestly about it. After all, he is the one who sold one of his turntables to Michael Fremer who audited a crappy plastic Crossley turntable and be able to pull some good feedback out of his hat, indicating exactly how those magazines are making money, as he said in this video. I also agree that this industry depends on one, the imperfections of the human hearing, two, the imperfections of the human psychology, as in, people can spend high amounts of money to equipment which almost stopped evolving after the late 80’s or early 90’s, right after the THD wars of large solid state amplifiers were over and home theaters started to become the new thing. People still paying crazy amounts of money to 99cent synchronous AC motors which were invented in the late 1890’s driving a colossal mass with a rubber belt which changes tension even under normal atmospheric conditions. Maybe this is the exact reason why the ‘vintage’ equipment is still being highly regarded, as they can match or even outperform much of the current new equipment in the market today. Most highly regarded vintage equipment has stood the test of time and they are not just evaluated by the reviewers but also by the people who owned them and used them under different settings. As for a dependable source, sorry but I don’t believe such a thing exists. Don’t know why people in the industry behave like a reference sound quality exists, and ask questions which equipment sound better. If there were such a thing, it would have put forward years ago. But, as I have said, the industry depends on the imperfections of the human hearing driven ownership pride. However, everybody hears differently, all our ears and ear channels are different, giving each and every one of us a unique equalization of the sound. We calibrate ourselves by listening different instruments under different conditions, like hearing a violin in an auditorium, in a room orchestra or from your friend 2 feet away. You develop your own reference, the same way you learn to call a color “Red” when you see the same shade. You develop your own taste and you look for that in the system you have. Nobody can tell you that you should like green and wear a green t-shirt on Mondays, because having advice on which equipment to buy is the same as asking someone which color to pick as your favorite color.
@oturgator. There are three areas in practice. Hifi/high end Pa- sound production Studio sound production. The last of these is the way to where it all starts. Genelec is like a sky sound system, of course after a well-measured room measurement mic calibration (it is included in the Genelec SAM series), of course your room must have at least a little acoustics on your walls so that it doesn't echo like your bathroom. As has been seen and heard in many expensive hifi sets on TH-cam videos. Most people don't understand the meaning of acoustic quality, just like an animal doesn't understand numbers.
@ I had the luck / chance / opportunity to work 2 years in 3 different recording studios. One of them had a 2” 24 channel Studer and a Soundcraft desk, one was using ADAT and they were digital only excluding the microphones and the last one was a Pro-Tools setup mainly doing voice-overs. I had the chance to listen many speakers there, Tannoy Monitor Gold 15s, JBL 4430s and 4425s, Yamaha NS-10s, ProAc Tablettes, Roger’s LS3/5s, the passive speakers that I have built as well as the active speakers like Klein & Hummel, ATC and Genelecs. Being close to the industry and being at the studio gave me a great insight. Yamaha NS-10 exaggerates any intervention that you have done on the console, it is brutally honest which is great for mixing but not for back listening, in such cases other speakers take over. No two studio monitor speakers sound the same, even if they are from the same manufacturer and within the similar price range. Take one speaker from one treated mixing room to another treated room and the whole balance changes, even with the same amplifier, same front end and the same cables. Tape has an addictive sound character and it is hard to shake off once you create an emotional attachment to it. It feels like you have excruciating detail with digital, then you feel like you are looking at the album cover of “Eve” from Alan Parsons Project, it is good from a distance. Genelecs are the evil of the whole bunch. It is like seeing a lady in heavy makeup and then she says, “you can call me anything you want”. Heavily equalized to slap the people who have a tunnel vision on the performance metrics, selling their soul to the devil. Listened with some engineers to 3-4 models of the Genelecs and none of us thought they were adequate for the job. I had friends in the JBL professional division who were giving me insight about what they are paying attention to while designing transducers and filters for the studio market. That is how I know some things are not what average people on the street thinks, hopes or dreams, when they see a “Studio Monitor” badge on speakers.
While I see the point your trying to make. One can find no where that phile means anything other than" lover of " if you could point where the definition you spoke of exist . Regards
An audiophile is anyone who loves music and cares how it sounds. Simple as that. The label is irrelevant. Call them an enthusiast, it doesnt matter. If there is a problem, and I dont think there really is, Jonathan is part of it, despite railing against it. This video betrays a lack of insight which is breathtaking. Accept the fact that a brace of cheap Chinese components can give you 80% of the quality of $30,000 of Oswalds Mill components, and I might respect your point of view more. Especially if you can explain why an intelligent, rational, person would spend the extra to experience that 20%. That would display true understanding, and not just a muddled set of emotional responses rooted in frustration and envy. Edit. I am one of those wgo would spend the extra, though not necessarily on Oswalds Mill components. But I also enjoy $150 Chinese monoblocks, and there is music where flea watt amps and sensitive full range drivers will fail to adequately reproduce the dynamics. The only way round that is to have several systems.
You hit the nail on the head at the end. People no longer dedicate time to the joy of relaxing with critical music listening. Just relaxing and loving music more than the background noise some use it as.
Love the historical element of these videos, but this is “authenticity brokerage” at it’s finest: “Your life is empty, give me large sums of money so I can free you from the shackles of your stupidity/ignorance”
Sounds like you got out of bed on the wrong side after your trip to Japan! Depressed? Angry at the world as we slide off into oblivion? I can understand that. But unfortunately you're part of the system. Who buys your beautiful and expensive equipment? Graduates of the high-end audio treadmill? Doctors and lawyers? The 1%? Are they buying because they love music, or because they want to impress their old friends ( who don't know any better;-) For me, being an music/audio-phile means setting aside time every day in my life to sit down and appreciate good recorded music, reproduced well. If it ever was a status symbol, those days are over. I only have one friend who kind of gets it. It's fun to spend an evening together appreciating some good tunes. But wait, there is an active audio community still. The grassroots budget audio folk. The real service to this hobby are those who make high quality products accessible to the 99% This diatribe hinted at that. It is perfectly possible to build a decent system for less than 5K. No need to constantly upgrade. You need an audio system to access recorded music of course. But who needs records? I recently set up a lady friend with a Bluesound streamer/amp, speaker cables & pair of Wharfdale floor standing speakers from crutchfield. All she needed in addition was a Qobuz subscription and she has access to the world of MUSIC in her home! Why do we try to make the process prohibitively complex and unreasonably expensive?? For you Johnathan I recommended going back to bed. Get up tomorrow and listen to Beethoven's piano concerto and contemplate that new musicians & music lovers are born every day. Wake up. Music isn't dying. Water the seeds! Now, tell us how 🎵🎶😉🎶🎵
I agree entirely, yet upgrade all the time. Generally second hand, ex dem, vintage. And often funded, at least partially, by selling something else. But thats fine. Im an adult. I enjoy the gear as well as the music, and I do it with my eyes open, recognizing I am partly in thrall to the curves of a sexy vacuum tube. Also, in my present circumstances I can afford it, and the creditors wont be scrabbling at the door. Im no victim of marketing or predatory TH-camrs. Of course you know all this, Carlos, but I do feel the wider community need my wisdom and general Sagacity. Sagaciousness ?Sagacitoriousness ? Profunditariosityness.
@@jimfarrell4635 Indeed friend. I know you keep a reference system and still love to play with and fix up older classic gear. I also run several systems. All valve, hybrid and all SS. Box speakers, panels etc. All have their "thing" in music presentation. I like to have options. What's wrong with loving the gear and music? It's a guy thing;-)
So basicslly what you are saying is that there is no progress been made jn technology and old gear is just as good and you are wondering why you are left behind as a Company 😂
I'd be interested in seeing how many people Jonathan assembled eBay systems for.... Would make a great video to watch him actually build a budget system that outperforms his mega-buck OMA systems wouldn't it?
I have what I would call a mid-range system. I probably have a couple k in it, maybe. Decent amp, good speakers, and the source is my laptop. CDs ripped to FLAC. I have 67 year old ears. I enjoy listening to classic rock music. It is what I grew up on. An old boss of mine way back said it takes 90% of ones' effort to squeeze out the last 10% of anything. And, he said the company was not going to pay for that last 10% or so. Made sense to me. The type of music I listen to and enjoy really does not require an over-the-top crazy expensive system to play it on. At some point I think you are just throwing money away and not getting very much back in return. My system is good enough for me to tell content that mastered really well from content that is not. We are talking rock music here... After that, that is my cutoff. -- I do think you have many good points... seems to some it is more of a religion.
Hi Jonathan, interesting remarks about Japan just as OJAS is gaining traction in the U.S. It's brave of you to criticise your own industry & the well heeled. I get perverse pleasure from finding budget nuggets that sound great. We are lucky to have Chi-Fi, Hi-Rez streaming & YT objective reviews (to sort the wheat from the chaff). I know the high-end is mostly a game of small sonic differences (large differences, something's awry) that are swamped by: music mastering, room, speaker & listener position effects. I no longer need to blast music to 'improve' the experience but I'm well aware from recent live orchestra concerts that they can get loud. I just don't feel the need to repeat it at home, for 4-5 hours on a daily basis. HTH, Cheers!
Where has great sound gone? Forget the label High end audio. It is our duty to sit people down in their late teens to late 60's to listen to a huge vintage system and say "here is great sound, do you agree?" and leave it at that. That's what happened to me at 17 and 21,where I got to sit down and listen to great big audio systems in the late 70's and early 80's. It stuck with me and I was never really impressed by what was called "HIGH END AUDIO " afterwards. I built my vintage system 30 years later for less than $4000 and it is blowing people away!
There are also active speakers that are suitable for small spaces. Many of my friends here in Europe also use Neuman, Genelec, and other active speakers, because they have been the forerunners of room-filling technologies for several generations already. And indeed they are already used in the living room for music, movies, and even gaming. Active speakers are like the Tesla electric car compared to the combustion engine cars that hifi high-end kind of represents.
Please include your own newly experienced music (or that which you are 'revisiting') as that is why I generally follow audio-centric channels which are not totally focused on the 'hobby'. ps The US military has a great term for those of their number who are obsessed by the equipment: 'gear-queer' - which I try to keep in mind as well as the question one can always throw into a hifi conversation: 'And what about 'room treatment?'
Grand Overgeneralization. People are into audio for various resons; not mainly prestige usually, and each person is a unique individual with their own reasons why they're an audiophile. Who would they show off to anyway? Your average other person doesn't care anything about audio or high end sound quality. Most audiophiles probably don't even have any audiophile friends friends.locally. This doesn't make sense... If you tell someone you have a new Mercedes, they migt be impressed. If you tell someone you have a new PS Audio, they'd say "A What?" It could be that the decline of high end audio, ( if there is one), could simply be due to people's maturity. At some point, feeling immature and silly giving sound quality such grand over importance. Many get off the audio upgrading treadmill for the same reason that many guys stop weightlifting after high school. What made them feel superior once, to be able to lift more weight than the others, with more maturity just then seems silly. And it's a LOT OF WORK. High end audio ia a LOT OF MONEY!
This rant comes across as more than a bit disingenuous. Many vintage speakers have serious design flaws (resonances, directivity issues, low quality crossover components and cables), and Stereophile gave your Fleetwood speakers and your $360,000 turntable very positive reviews. So, who got you to where you are now and why are you whining?
Jonathan, you make some insightful observations including how the industry pushes so called "state of the art " technology, frequently at the expense of genuine high quality sound and deeper enjoyment of music. It's also curious that for many, the word audiophile has devolved to imply a kind of pathology, especially considering "phile" comes from the Greek word "philos" meaning loving or fondness. For certain,there are some audiophiles that obsess over the equipment more than the music. Plenty fall into that camp. There are also plenty of true audiophiles that love and obsess over music far more than the equipment they listen through.
Never eat Japanese Fugu fish. Very dangerous. Six of my ex wives passed away from eating that fish. But they took good life insurance policies. Bless them. I have asked my current wife to get life insurance too and then I will take her to a Japanese restaurant to celebrate. She loves seafood.
I don't really care for "high-end" audio as long as I can get high quality audio. Luckily Purifi, Genelec, Neumann etc have me covered. They have the R&D/industrial skills and equipment to reliably deliver at a sensible price. Also, it would have helped to check the etymology of the suffix -phile before pressing REC. I really dig the steampunk vibe of these OMA systems though. They are beautiful works of art.
I have a Sam Genelec multi-channel set, hifi/movie/game and that's how it is, the whole high end dream is a kind of betrayal towards people, which unfortunately many 100 thousand men and women follow like their lost tail that can't be found. The high end road is often like reaching for madness.
In my case, words like music lover and audiophile define my perspective of the listening experience, because I do like to have the best possible equipment to listen to all my big collection of music (that increases every week). One of the first things I do after coming home from work is listening to an album, start to finish, because I truly love and cherish this amazing journey. Unfortunately, Jonathan, like you've mentioned, the majority of High-End brands still think that low efficent speakers and huge powerfull amps are the way to go, but are simply wrong. Really good efficient speakers and really good low power tube amps are expensive to make, but in the audio industry, there aren't many brands that are capable to acomplish the goal of reproducing the recorded event. Still, fortunately, there are some truly masterful artisans/small brands (a know a few) that built audio equipment that can achieve a remarkable approximation of the feeling of "beeing there".
Tone Controls . Or…brace yourself…a loudness button!!! Gasp! I said it. The elimination of tone controls on ultra high-end equipment speaks to the many problems with the audiophile industry. Firstly, lack of tone controls forces one to listen to what someone else has deemed proper. This subsequently leads to listening to equipment and not music. It would be interesting to compare timelines of the market decline and the elimination of tone controls. You want to get people interested again. Let them fiddle with options and enjoy “their” music they way they like it. Nah, instead paralyze them with fear that they are jeopardizing the integrity of the signal. Wanting to tweak the sound to your ears, room, speakers, and taste is blasphemy. They sold a lot of really nice sounding receivers back in the day, many from Japan. Incidentally they had tunable features. I feel that the market has forced consumers into a one sound fits all type model which is very off putting, especially when investing large sums.
I offered my second and third system to my son and daughter now that they have jobs and moved into new homes. Neither wanted the amplifiers or loudspeakers and both opted for soundbars with a subwoofers. Kids are into Netflix and streaming. I can guarantee that my sons Yamaha and klipsch subwoofer sounds amazing via his PlayStation PS5. He can switch between a game, film and music instantly. So I would agree that the upper high end market will continue and the modest gear will disappear. As for magazines you have to pay journalists! You have to do advertising in their magazine. However, your understanding the use of a word with ‘Phile’ is rather poor and disturbing in my opinion. To like something and continue liking something is a good habit. However, I find your comparison to people with obsessive sexual activities with children very bad taste. Good luck and thanks for the journey.
The Japanese were never better in camera manufacturing or watch making than the Swiss or Germans and they were never better in HiFi either let's say better than the Brits. Japan or the Japanese are excellent when it comes to build quality, but where they are really better than anybody in the world is that they understand the mass market. A Nikon or Canon was never as good as say a Leica but it was very very good for just a third of the price. A Seiko watch was never as good as a Rolex or IWC but they are very good for a fraction of the price and a Maranz,Sony, Onkyo or whatever you name it was never as good as an American build Maranz and they are not even close to all these British amps of the 80s like Mission, Arcam, Creek you name it. But it looked a lot better than these half sized gray or green boxes from England and again for a fraction of the price. But all these Brands are not really Japanese High End. Japanese High End are Brands like Kondo, Air Tight, Phasemation, TAD, Stax etc and they cost a fortune too and they are as good as our best stuff we build. Greg Timbers (JBL) was once asked what he thinks about TAD and he said: "Yes it is awesome, it is basically JBL with better build quality" and that is true but a legendary JBL 4430 (studio monitor with 15 inch woofer and Bi-Radial Horn) was below 10 grand wile the TAD 2402 was how much 20 or 30 grand somewhere in this ballpark? Japan has the engineers to build awesome stuff, but when they do it is not cheaper than our stuff and it is nor more or less successful.
Well said. Acquiring expensive audio gear is done for status and bolstering one's ego. Those who acquire hi-end audio, often buy and listen to music that is accepted by others who also acquire hi-end audio. This lack of individualism and inbreeding of musical taste causes a dissatisfaction which is appeased by focusing on attributes of the audio gear itself.
Hey John! I really enjoyed your video today. You mention how you can assemble a great sounding system for 5-10k within the time span of 6 weeks. For us who love to listen and celebrate music and cannot afford your gear. It would be an amazing service to your viewers to get a few tips or road map on how we can create a great sounding system to celebrate the thing we love. MUSIC. Cheers, Lino
the thing is that there are more 'audiophiles' out there than there are true music lovers. people dine in fine restaurants but many dont have any deep appreciation for the cuisine. same with high end wine drinkers, too much money and not enough brains. i own infamously power hungry speakers, magnepan lrs plus and added a new and better crossover, i have to power it with a powerful crown professional amp and frankly i love the music i hear. so different strokes i guess as i have also loved my tiny tube amps and high efficiency open baffle full range drivers. as one ages hopefully the music becomes the thing.
@CashGravel I think it's true most aren't interested in owning a home stereo, and I have an entirely different perspective on it than Jonathan here. More of a Marxist perspective. The focus of capitalism on producing commodities for exchange value rather than the use value leads to a prioritization of convenience, affordability, and portability over quality. The commodification of music itself alienates individuals from a deeper engagement with it. Music consumption becomes a background activity rather than a focused, immersive experience, reducing the perceived need for high quality reproduction. Where I do agree with Jonathan here is the culture of planned obsolescence and technological fetishism where the constant turnover of devices and marketing of new features shift attention from enduring, high quality audio equipment to disposable, Tech forward gadgets. But I think the biggest lead blanket to it all is the cultural hegemony, aka the ideological dominance of convenience over quality. The way that corporations propagate this really does shape consumer preferences. Marketing campaigns prioritize mobility and accessibility and frame them as more desirable than traditional notions of audiophile sound quality. Fundamentally if people cannot appreciate quality they do not understand quality and will not seek it out and this is a cultural phenomenon at its core.
Jonno old son , your products are on the front page of hifi magazines , interesting contradiction #1 And #2 I can think of a few pro audio gurus who would laugh at your statement concerning public address sound. Any way keep up the amusing content , it’s fun . 🥁🙏🏼🐬
As a very active rep way back in the 70's, doing booth duty at both CES shows, ... it was VHS that killed Audio. When "good enough" video became the acceptable alternative to media, even crappy bootleg copies, "good enough" sound became acceptable as well. First just some solutions from video discs to various tape formats from the big names to complete separate sections of the convention. With porn becoming it's own industry, they would have a convention outside the CES. Suddenly Audio was becoming a smaller section. Bigger CRTs became flat panels and multimedia audio was replacing 2 channel.
1. Audiophile isn't a dirty word, but boy did you make quite an asertion otherwise. Some collect cars, does that make them an automobilephile? 2. Ends it with the classic line of... "acknowleding there is a problem is the first step". 3. Johnathon, I am sure your company creates fine products. However, the video feels like you are just talking down to your audience...almost whining about the lack of a high end market is somehow a bad thing. Weird. 4. The demographics of the USA simply don't support the expansion of what you might call the "high end" equipment market any more. Your company can either play in the larger (low fi) market or not. That's your choice as a business person. Live with it. People spend their money like they want and capitalism isn't your problem to fix.
It's interesting, though, how people in America (at least in these kinds of forums) often savage audiophiles' interest in, desire for, and ownership of expensive gear, but not so much the lovers of cars, watches, handbags, shoes, modern art, sports gear, incredibly expensive meals out, and so on. I think it's simply that those items/purchases are regarded as more socially acceptable, or at least more comprehensible.
When will you produce audio equipment that is accessible to by listeners who have limited budgets. Speakers and turntables costing hundreds thousands of dollars, pounds or euros is for those who in a small demographic group who may or may-not even get involved in the music being played. So a-system costing less than $2000 can give the listener that sense or emotion and pleasure from what ever music they play. A properly setup system can pro-tray what has been recorded at whatever performance and in some case sound better. I have been to concerts of orchestral, jazz and rock where the sound quality and balance has reined a good performance by the musicians on stage. I do appreciate the qualities of high end audio and if could afford it would go there. But in the meantime for the majority of those of us who do get emotional involved in our listening what the audio industry produces is what we’ve got.
Mr. Weiss, it appears to me you succeeded in provoking answers, albeit not suggestions to the specific challenge formulated by you at the end of the video, but rather a breadth of views on your general attitude and stance towards "audiophilia" at present. The overall tone and nature of many of those replies are not without merit, because they reflect what your video blog is really about and which (rightly so) calls for a strong reaction. I remember reading your blogs years ago on your website, and lamented that there weren't more of them being that I found what you addressed needed to be said to call into question (and bring attention to) what audio reproduction today has come to be about, also and in particular the domestic audio industry with its marketing hoopla, technology praise, dodging physics with regard to speakers, etc. It also became clear to me however that what you advocated was something that progressively closed around itself, like the push for conical horns as the only "true" horns, cabinets/horns made of hardwoods (from PA not least), low powered SET's, analogue sources, etc. I don't doubt that these very aspects, properly integrated and implemented, can have an important say in what evokes what we're lacking in much of audio reproduction today, but any which way you want to bend this there are different ways to skin your cat within this realm (and you very well know that), and much cheaper as well; both curved horn geometry, a digital source, solid state amps, active configuration and so forth - still based on high eff. pro drivers and horns variants of large size, or even non horn-loaded AMT/ribbons - can serve up something great sounding. Promoting your own approach as the only real one, including the appreciation of music, to me comes off both arrogant, seemingly uninformed and as a forced marketing effort in itself. There's an important message of yours buried underneath it all, but take care not to saw off the branch you're sitting on in the process, if you haven't already.
I have to grin. On several levels. My investment in records and cds vastly, ask my wife……exceeds my gear purchases over the years. The educated read, and listen, and read and read. And at the end of the day your statement that nothing is that much better than it was 50 years ago is true. Keeping up with the Jones mentality is the problem, because as you pointed out, having a good stereo is not in vogue these days. And when a basic pickup truck starts at 50K well, . And to honest Jonathan, if I’d started saving years ago I couldn’t afford your turntables😊 I’ve owned the same amp for over 20 years now, same brand of tube preamp for same. Phono cartridges and playing with speaker crossovers are my weakness. Must be tough being in your price bracket and still getting no respect. I wish you luck.
I would love you to put more videos out elaborating on this topic. Just a great example from a Hifi show I attended to last week: Out of all the crazy priced 7 figure mega bucks systems only a single one conveyed true emotions (some sounded fine but not more, some even sounded aggressive and metallic ... how can that be for state of the art systems costing around 2mio euros?). The emotional one had a turntable spinning with even a lot of "none audiophile recordings" (in every sense) and I just straight didn't move for three hours since it was a delight. Then I had a chat with a guy known to make custom order high end tube amps tailored to your needs. I got intrigued, talked about what I am looking for (having in mind that a great well built amp should bring many years of joy) just for him to tell me that it will be fine for 2 years, after that I'll have to sell it off anyways since he will have a new thing out like usual which will "wipe the floor" with whatever I bought before. At this point I totally lost interest in what he has to offer ...
Personally I think he is right, small “boutique” audio manufacturers like his are not taken seriously mostly because famous magazines tend to review products from bigger companies.. and by the way did you notice in recent years how almost ALL reviewers tend to stress on the good aspects of a product instead of focusing on the flaws..? It is like “oh, the tweeter is disconnected from the misrange BUT it produces an organic full sound…”.. There are no unbiased reviewers anymore out there and if you think that some magazines have been sued for “not particularly good” reviews you can understand how big is their responsibility (pressure..?) to speak well about manufacturers… And moreover I think that we’ve reached an era in which there are not improvements anymore, I’m very heard some million dollars system in Munich which sounded worse than vintage setups with outdated electronics and speakers… he s right now “audiophiles” are not interested in the music they only enjoy the gear.
For the average user who enjoys listening to music, a carefully selected 1000usd/eur system will be quite enough. Only the system above 10,000 usd/eur will bring any significant difference compared to the first one. Everything else falls into the "let's measure it" category.
You’ve made an insightful observation about the high-end audio industry, especially regarding the influence of reviews and the behaviors of buyers. It’s true that, for many, high-end audio equipment often seems to become more about prestige and aligning with popular opinions than actual sound quality. The sway of well-established “industry mavericks” and the elevated status of certain brands or products often drives purchasing decisions, sidelining the personal experience of how the system actually performs. Your point about audio reviews being influenced by monetary gain or favoritism is particularly significant. It underscores the importance of critical thinking and firsthand evaluation when making such investments. It’s a reminder that sound quality is deeply subjective, and chasing status or the “next big thing” can lead many away from enjoying the core purpose of audio: an authentic, personal listening experience. What do you think would help shift the focus back to sound quality? A greater emphasis on independent reviews, better access to unbiased dealer experiences, or something else?
Finding audio nirvana is a journey. It's that journey that should be enjoyed and not a means to an end. Although others may simply suffer from g.a.s. (gear acquisition syndrome), which no amount of gear will ever be satisfactory.
Greetings All - A full opine range here - so I'd start with ... listening... in a perfect world I would listen to an album side 5 nights a week - in reality I get maybe twice a week - if you don’t enjoy your system no matter how much or little is spent ... like owning a vacation home or an 70s RS Porsche you haven't experienced in a year or more ... excetional gear unused is... sad. Not every musical experience is a perfectly curated event - stumble into a pub or a street musician sounding better than your last concert seat is always a moment ... one stops and ... listens
Japan is sure a cool place to visit for vinyl. I lived over there for a year. Tons of options to buy vinyl there. The Japanese are for the most part much more cultured than most in the US. They are much more in tune with how music sounds, their knowledge of jazz and classical is usually excellent to superb. The items I would add to your original comments on Japan are they did press the best sounding vinyl, The quietest vinyl, experimented with vinyl formulations, experimented with flat profile vinyl (as seen in some of the Toshiba - EMI DOR and DAM releases, the Blue Note BLP flat profile releases), cut many titles at 45 RPM. King Records (who was originally trained by Decca UK back in the late 1950s to early 1960) went on to surprass Decca and experimented with groove spacing or pitch to arrive at the King laboratory series where they cut lacquers directly from tape with no EQ or compression which later evolved into the King Super Analogue series. would agree with you comments on many in the high end pushing super inefficient speakers requiring large amounts of power and current to produce this sterile non-musical sound all in the name of "accuracy". When a person puts on a favorite piece of music how long does some of this gear keep said person's rear end glued to the listening seat? For much of this gear its not very long. Boredom sets in pretty fast.
Maybe you, John Devore, Peter Qvortrup, Klipsch, Avant Garde and the Shindo guys could form some kind of association in an attempt to push back? They all make high sensitivity speakers. Oh, it was very sad to hear that Verity Audio is no more. They seemed like good guys too.
Verity Audio homepage is still up, and they still sound good. Also Maarten Design mingus even though very modern looking, are very natural in sound beating many of the older designs that are known for being the most natural speakers.
High end is often a scam to collect money from stupid people into better pockets. It's cold business. Sound quality characteristics should be measured by comparing competing products with the same speaker enclosure volumes, so that the comparison value ratio clarifies the listener in the same space and in the same places. Of course, with the same music too. High end products (speaker listening settings) do not represent anything but big talk, not covered by comparison ratings that should be in every test at high end fairs. The spirit of the game is ALWAYS measured BY COMPARISON METHODS EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT THAT HUMANS MAKE!! Otherwise, the development of products will be more inconsistent.
basically technically speaking only one loudspeaker model should be enough to satisfy all expectations regarding sound reproduction at home or in a residential venue. have it high efficiency , three way and quality build. the reality of the market is very different because consumption culture is based on idea we are all different and to satisfy our deepest ego we need to acquire something unique. you can by the way acquire something unique at any price level and that's a deal. some also manage to offer the right product and to bring it to be unique they ask very high price for it bringing those able to afford that close to unique as well.
I don't have an awswer for the issues you bring up either but, will think about it more & hope you record any insights you discover. I do have some feedback I think you are a bit black & white about either someone enjoys music or is fixated on always looking for the latest best thing. I honestly am a bit of both but, if it wasn't for the music I love & what I am continuing to discover, via streaming (the most exciting part of the passion for me) I wouldn't be interested in the 'stuff' at all. Also, as a side note I do get the quality of everything your company makes & am very impressed with everything from the materials to the electronics, research & handcrafting. Unforunately, I am a person who has a budget that can't afford your products, not that I think you should make more affordable ones. So I exist in a situation where I have to try products that I can afford. My only option being trying them at home. I have with some components found exactly what pleases me, like speakers but, still continue to look for others. I do appreciate your comments & thoughts & will look forward to others.
It is an extremely time consuming endeavor, trying to put together a high end system. I visited many stores and manufacturers for close to two years, listening to so many different systems. Many things I learned too late, i.e. after I bought my first high end system, which drained most of my resources. Looking for high efficient speakers is something I’d do now. There are not too many. Tobian Sound Systems is one of the few high end producers for highly efficient speakers in Europe that would also appeal to me from a visual point of view. I’d probably visit OMA if I were in the US. Also I’d look at tube amps, probably NAT Audio. Additionally, looking at companies that offer complete systems or almost complete systems is something I find attractive. Finding someone who is into music and high end gear for several decades who can be a mentor might be something I’d do if I were to start all over.
I do believe the bookshelf speaker behind you cost 15k. Only a few can afford that. Tell me if i am wrong. A great system is one that can extract emotion from the listener. I am 70yo and still love my haflers and adcom equipment. With that said you are not wrong.
I really enjoyed this video. My favourite amplifier I own is a Pioneer sa 6200 the top of the line in 1973, 15watts per channel, but man, the sound is so good matched with a pair of wharfedale rosedales. The build quality on the SA 6200 is great. The only week I've done after it was serviced and rebuilt/recapped was to use a pair of 10db rca attenuators on the power amp input, just increase the signal to noise ratio. Rosedale speakers are 95db sensitivity, the SA 6200 drives them effortlessly. I really enjoy your channel, and salivate over the oma products. ...and I totally agree with your thoughts on the state of high end gear and enjoyed your previous videos on listening. And audio technica carts so good,I've found they sound their best with a capatence load of 100uf.
Arguing that on the one hand you can put a better than SP/AS system together for $10,000, but also repeatedly referring to your $360,000-400,000 turntable seems a bit schizophrenic/disingenuous. Agree on the nonsense in magazines. Fremer is possibly the worst of the bunch, parroting in a recent AS TT review that 1 arc second is audible (complete physics nonsense on so many different levels). My solution is to get something decent by broad consensus of various sources with bias to my preferences, and realize that our head will do a lot of "white balance" through habituation/psychoacoustics. No need to sweat the details. Just listen to music, particularly new music, because that is where the excitement is.
I think one potential idea is having listening clubs…. Sort of like a workout club; but you join, and have access to listening to great systems that you couldn’t afford on your own, but you go and listen with like minded music lovers.
eBay killed vintage stores two ways; velocity of sales and inflation of prices. Technology reviews always outsell art reviews. Most people cannot afford OMA. If want to change the market all you can do is become a mentor to super affordable audio manufacturers.
I think the video has a lot of great point but it miss that there is a lot of affordable (expensive to normal people) HiFi brands out there. The so called High End is ridiculous and overpriced without actually delivering anything extra at all when it comes to the music. I am talking about brands like, Arcam, Rotel / Michi , Yamaha, Exposure , Rega etc etc etc. He is spot on that High End is all about the gear and not the music. It's like Formula one Cars, fun to watch but not real a car that you would want in your everyday life if you are not ultra rich so you can have like 10 cars and drive on race tracks.
Hi Jonathan, I’d recommend people go to an audio or hifi club meeting where they will meet seriously clever DIY’ers and audio engineers as well as “Audiophiles” and make some new likeminded friends. Within such clubs you will hear custom hand built equipment that’s blind tested against the very best of what’s available in the mainstream stores and on the covers of Hi-end magazines where companies pay big money to have there products featured/advertised. I consider myself an audiophile and I do like gear as well as the music. I have been to the last two Sydney HiFi shows and didn’t hear much that came close to my own system that was in my affordable range. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been into a bricks and mortar hifi shop to purchase anything other than headphones in the last twenty years. Im in the minority that enjoys music above all, but only on exceptional equipment because the sound quality matters to me. Thanks for your video’s there always interesting.
Young people listen to music via headphones and many appreciate good sound and play in bands. That’s wonderful. I have heard high efficiency speakers and inefficient tube amps at shows and at friends’ houses and I don’t understand what fuss is about. I have yet to hear any of your impressive looking equipment. Living in Sweden I suspect any US made goods will be even more expensive next year.
Jonathan...with all due respect, you come across as jaded, arrogant, and perhaps a little bitter in this video. While I believe your heart is in the right place about music, I think you are only seeing what you want to see in the industry. PEOPLE STILL LOVE MUSIC! You seem angry that they don't want to spend exorbitant money to buy "high end" gear to enjoy music. Largely, you're right - and they don't have to anymore. The average "mid-fi" system sold at Best Buy today easily outperforms so-called "high-end" systems of the past in many measurable ways, including being half the cost. Technology has advanced as well as the understanding of what makes great sound. Passion still exists, but styles change over time. Car guys who passionately built hot rods in the '50's changed to muscle cars in the '60's, British sports cars in the 70's, German cars in the '80's, rice burners in the '90's, super cars in the 2000's...etc. You can't say that the passion for cars is dead because building hot rods in the back yard from old parts is not the mainstream choice anymore. Today, I see young guys with ALOT of passion about their music - and are willing to spend thousands on high-end headphones, DACs, streamers, and even flea-watt tube amps to enjoy it. Other people spend hundreds, even thousands to go see their favorite musicians in live concert. And the people that design and build and install and run these multi-million dollar live sound rigs DO care about great sound, and it is getting better every year. Is it the same as sitting quietly between 2 speakers at home and spinning vinyl? No, but it is about the passion and experience of music, and it is far better than the systems of the past. I have musician friends who will talk for HOURS about the SQ differences between microphones, or what different drumheads sound like on stage or in the studio. I would encourage you to see the passion for music where it IS, not where YOU think it should be. You'll find plenty of people out there who still care about great sound. Change with the times, or get left behind in obscurity and irrelevance.
A quick google search shows The Absolute Sound (Fremer) covered OMA's K5 turntable at the Munich show last year. It takes a lot of hubris to trash audio magazines while holding up issues where OMA has a featured review of their 6-figure turntable on the cover.
Fremer is an arrogant snob in my humble opinion.
I believe Fremer's turntable is an OMA Technics.
One of my pet theories is that listening pleasure started to go downhill when stereo was introduced. There’s something asocial and amusical about sitting still in the perfect sweet spot, exactly midway between two speakers, facing straight ahead and with closed eyes. Especially since the only bonus of doing so is the ability to point at the position of the different musicians in the recording. My motto must be back to Mono. Just imagine purchasing one great speaker instead of two less so (same price budget), and the same goes for amplification. Just imagine being able to listening to music on a great mono system with friends sitting together, rather than having to change seats with them regularly so everyone will get their fair share of some imaginary bliss of a pin point stereo focus. For me timbre, texture and dynamics is the key to musical enjoyment not stereo precision. Greetings from Denmark
Interesting, It would be fascinating to hear a good mono setup.
@@mgseeYou regularly hear good quality mono music....just attend your favorite rock star concert and you'll hear a mono feed.
@ True! 🙂
Get thee to thine Echo Dot, Sirrah ! You talk the damnedest Heresy and will find thyself condemned to have thine liver consumed by a Feral and Voracious Wiim streamer each day, till it regrows at sunset. Or SunSET as true Audiophiles do name it.
I havent watched the video yet but that bloke radiates SMUG like a KT150 radiates heat.
There's a lot of truth to your comment. We recently bought one floor model of B&O A9 for the living room. Both my wife and non-audiophile son loved the music it produced. It's not cheap, it's mono, but it's very simple to use (stream from any phones) and it produces great sound both at low and high volume. Oh, and it looks great in the corner of the room with a custom cover on.
Jonathan creates a video about the future of high end audio. A topic he then does not discuss.
Instead he craps on anyone stupid enough to be part of the market his company caters to.
He craps on the magazines that he ever so casually ensures you notice that has OMA on the cover.
Not sure what this was supposed to do other than waste 13.15 mins of my day.
lol I didn't make it to the end.
That would be a great segment of you putting an amazing stereo with proper sound off eBay/using vintage pieces. While doing it educating us young people who never grew up with great sound.
You make home stereos that often cost more than most people's homes. OMA is clearly a member of the club you don't seem to approve of. Here's an idea. Why don't you make a $15k-$20k system like you could buy used on EBay for those of us who love the music more than the equipment?
My generous take on this video is that running a high-end audio company must be incredibly stressful.
This.
Phile just means "friend" in greek. add it to any word as a suffix. It just means that you like IT
Yep, didn't like the rhetorical conflation of pedo with audio ''philes' even if one has a down on Audiophiles which I understand all too well.
also - “The suffix "-phile" means "lover of" or "enthusiast of". It's often used in scientific and everyday terms, especially in biology and psychology” 😊
Hubble ( the astronomer )was a “ europhile” and even spoke with an English accent.
This seems a bit hypocritical. The guy creates and sells beautiful super high-end audio equipment, that the average music loving Joe could never afford. He is catering for the very few who can purchase such equipment, largely as that status symbol he’s rallying against here. Why else would one spend 10s of thousands on the equipment he and others make, who’s audio quality despite I assume being very good, is at diminishing returns, compared to much cheaper equipment that’ll still give you that enjoyment of the music, if that’s what important. He seems to be shooting himself in the foot.
If a person genuinely loves music, and that’s the main driving force, as he encourages. And not the quality of the bass, high end, soundstage etc…(audiophile parlance 😉) which doesn’t affect the “enjoyment” of music anyway. Is also subjective and differs from person to person. You can get that from a smartphone and headphones, why buy his stuff? Not that I wouldn’t if I could, it’s beautiful high quality product, so why not? But he seems to be making an argument against what he does for a living, and doesn’t seem to be clear about what he wants to get across here. Anyway, first world problems. I still admire what he and his company make.
Well-said. He wants you to thread a needle and presume that his fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only, or is primarily for real music lovers, whereas other fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only for equipment lovers.
I dont entirely disagree with you David, but the "quality of the bass, soundstage etc." is what audiophilia is all about and does indeed affect the enjoyment of the music.
Thats not to say the music itself isnt the main thing, and can be enjoyed independantly of its reproduction. Sometimes a song on a transistor radio can have more emotional impact than the same song on a high end stereo.
If, for example you are sitting round a fire on a lonely beach in the Western Islands of Scotland, holding the hand of the love of your life, as opposed to sitting by yourself in a soundproof basement.
However, under most circumstances Id rather hear the song reproduced in the best way possible.
Edit: Dont forget. Smokey the bear says be careful building fires in the wilderness, and actually Ultimate Ears Bluetooth speakers are a better choice for beaches.
@ I agree too. A good quality recording (the most important aspect when it comes to sound quality, as you need a strong base to start with!) played through a very high-quality playback system can add to the enjoyment, but it’s not essential for that enjoyment, is what I’m saying. And when I said diminishing returns, I meant that I don’t believe say a $50,000 speaker setup is going to sound proportionately better than a $5,000 one. As for the differing sound qualities of amps, from experience that’s very subjective, if there at all. Most don’t have “golden” ears (if such a thing exists) and are going to struggle to tell the difference between the “sound” of different amps. But again, I appreciate the quality and or jewel like aspect if you like, of such gear.
It's a bit hypocritical? More than a bit. He might as well set up a mirror in front of himself rather than a camera. How sad.
"Ya get more mileage from a cheap pair of speakers..." Billy Joel had it right. Joy is not in things. That's hard, cause filling up the hole that modern life digs is frightening.
I love music. Specifically jazz. I’m also a veteran with some hearing issues. So, that being said, I only have to spend money for equipment that works foe ME. I can appreciate equipment like you produce, I really can, but it’s not in the realm of someone like me that will never be able to appreciate its full potential. Now I’m also 77 years young and have been buying equipment since I was in my early 20s. Audiophiles wouldn’t even give me the time of day because of my system, and that’s sad, but I don’t care because it WORKS FOR ME. Love you site. Keep up the good work.
Good for you. Do what works best for you. You're not alone; most everyone (let's say, the more mature demographic) who buys high end equipment has heavily compromised hearing. It's the elephant in the room. 'Get this uber DAC, get this diamond cantilever cartridge!', etc, etc. Buddy, your hearing is down probably 30dB at critical frequencies! Father Time, forever undefeated. As is human folly.
I agree with most of you say. However, you also lift on the wave of “the more expensive, the better”. Pity…
lol OMA is so over the top expensive. Who knows if it’s
Any good
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708 it sounds absolutely fantastic 😊 coming from someone who heard a full oma system at their dumbo location. Totally natural sound, almost weird to experience it
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708I simply don’t know🤔… I heard the Fleetwood Deville but that is just a mediocre loudspeaker. Old-fashioned in a negative sense. Never heard their top of the line products.
I love your videos and highly respect your opinion expressed therein, but as a linguist, have to disagree with you on the use of the pre- and suffix “phil”, both in meaning and connotation, as it is used to express love, not the excess or pathology thereof. As a philanthropist (pun intended), not to mention philosophically speaking (more puns), one would be hard-pressed to come up with many more negative examples such as the one you used (the vile nature whereof is implied in the psychology of the subject matter itself rather than the terminology). The term “audiophile”, as far as I understand it, applies both to those who use a system to listen to music, as well as those you’re alluding to, who use music to listen to a system. I’m a music lover myself and have no problem referring to myself as an audiophile. My audiophile acquaintance covers the whole spectrum, so that there are those with whom I’ll discuss classical music primarily, and the fact alone that once in a blue moon they’ll inquire about hum caused by their phono stage doesn’t prove they’re in any way more interested in gear than music. Besides, as someone who started designing and building loudspeakers myself from the age of 14 or 15, out of disappointment of the inability of commercially available ones to convey the sound of a piano as I heard it on a regular basis when my sister practiced on our late grandmother’s Steinway, I recognize a fellow audiophile in you, someone who’s organized gatherings of likeminded “philes” and spent a lifetime pursuing the improvement of the sound of music. There’s a factor of intelligibility or lack thereof of e.g. speech in an opera, a play or even an audiobook where the two types of audiophiles meet, which happens to be where our ability to distinguish between instrument (makers), artists and interpretations of compositions becomes compromised. This fine line is where we all meet, as audiophiles, human beings who appreciate the sound of…
Well said.
Bravo!
Im thinking about to set up a good stereo system in the physics room in my school. Maybe a regular, midday break music session could give some kids an idea, what a powerful experience listening is. The music could / should change through all genres, but should be analog or at least from a physical format. Something as an alternative to spending your break on your phone. Even our music teacher uses a wireless, portable speaker. Non of the parents got a decent stereo setup. Maybe i should try it. Greetings from Germany.
That was how I first was exposed to a well set up hifi. In school, in the music classroom, the system was Philips not too fancy but with speakers in the right place. We could bring our own lps. That impressed me for life. That was i 1976.
You're talking about listening to the system through the music rather than the other way around. Admittedly, I've put on a CD or vinyl record because of the way it sounds through my system but only if I enjoy the music in the first place. All audiophiles began their obsession because they love music. It starts there. If listening to music to you doesn't go beyond turning on the radio, then you could never become an audiophile. If it means a lot more, look out, because once you take that first step into audiophilia, if you're not careful and disciplined, you can be sucked into this vortex of buying and trading up your equipment in search of the holy grail. And it never ends until you get burned out or go broke.
I found the Genelec glm/sam/aes/ebu digital master series. There has been no return to any high end brand with passive speakers, because they already lag behind in sound quality characteristics. And quite hifi in use in the living room with an audio streamer.
Most of humanity walks with their eyes closed. Every single second, minute, month and year searching for the edge areas of passive hifi/high end in the swamp.
Active speakers (GENELEC) dsp room correction with measurements is the only way to your complete happiness.
the best I know is listening to my records in the late night (low volume)
HiFi disappears and music appears
(I do have high sensitivity (DIY) speakers driven by low-power tube amp)
Great idea for an audio rug on your part. Congrats.
A central part if my upgraded audio system is powered by a little, low power Pathos Hybrid Tube Amp. It's a little mighty might..looks adorable, & sounds so sweet. One of my absolute fav end-gane audio pieces. 😮😅
Ive rewatched this video and my initial frustration and emotional reaction to Jonathans overweening smug, patronising attitude has subsided.
He has a point. But his point is undermined by his complete failure to acknowledge that OMA is a big f'ing tree in that dark forest and his company feeds that consumption despite the fact that, I suspect, he would rather appear in the art and design sections of broadsheets than the hifi mags. Its the same old shit, mate.
He says ots complex, then immediately denies that complexity by calling all audiophiles compulsive consumers, and all reviewers unemployable.
Yes, there is an element of addiction in audiophiles, but that is only part of a complex story which will be different for everyone. Obsession and passion is not necessarily shallow and destructive. This is also true for the bragging rights argument. Many enthusiasts just want to discuss their systems, not brag about them. I suspect he projects his own attitudes a lot in this piece.
One of the people who epitomises the attitudes he despises is Steve Huff. One of the products which raised Steve Huffs profile was a pair of Oswalds Mill speakers (Oh, the irony). He did a review where he decried the new gear merry go round and declared he had stepped off because the OMA speaker ŵere essentially perfect and he would keep them for the rest of his life. Im sure this helped sales a tad. It certainly helped Steve Huff.
Then shock, horror ! Jonathan dumped in maybe $1500 worth of upgrades and announced a $7000 more expensive "Special Edition" (I guesstimate) and Steve Huff immediately sold his forever speakers, upgraded and shilled the new ones. This typifies the problem, Jonathan, and is why I cant take you seriously.
As for the solution ? Simple. Be an adult. Understand your own impulses, and commercial motivations and sort the wheat from the chaff. Not always easy, but simple.
Filming your turntable for 14 minutes in silence would be a more interesting video
The best thing about this is going through the comments looking for the small nuggets of true wisdom. What a beautiful time to be alive. Thanks for your perspective. About the boom comments, it's probably where they were standing in the room, bass can act like that.
A customer's desire for owning high end audio products may be all that keeps the wolf from the door.
The mass market sales are going to dominate any industry. What we have in audio is a case of that fact. Most people live in relatively small houses or apartments and do not have space for the big old style speakers, nor 5ft tall modern high end speakers or racks of equipment. So we get offered small stuff in a million variations built to various price points. I think what Jonathan has done with OMA is fantastic, but, given the equation of property prices to salaries, I cannot see many having the opportunity to have truly great sound in their homes. When thinking about equipment, from the past, I don’t think the majority of people had the great sounding classic equipment. I have my grandparents radio, built in 1951 and it sounds glorious in a plummy voiced old style BBC fashion, but it lacks resolution and dynamics. It has strange tubes and is only a ported speaker because the back of the radio has ventilation holes! In the ‘90’s I had a working Garrard 401 and a pre-owned LP12 from about 1987. The Garrard was much better; bigger sound, more dynamic, more natural timbres, in fact just more life like, so in many ways better, and if it sounded bit more coloured I did not care.
Your final question/point reminded me of an old... joke(?).
Two tourists are driving round Ireland enjoying everything about the place, but one day, while out in a remote area driving down a country lane, they decide to go to Belfast.
Now, this comes from before the internet, so... so they drive around and are hopelessly lost and they pull over when they see what looks like a local walking down the lane.
"Excuse me, how do we get to Belfast?" one asks.
The local looks up the lane and then down the lane, thinks for a moment and then says "Well, I wouldn't start from here".
We are in a world where the average person gets music for free or as close to free as makes no difference.
That means it isn't considered as valuable. and if it isn't valuable why spend big on equipment when (and it's true) low to mid equipment is VERY cheap and we live in a culture of convenience. People now want everything delivered to them (on a platter) and as long as that happens, quality seems unimportant. Just look at the "Menu Log" adverts on the TV(at least here in Australia).
The conundrum of the modern world, deciding which things to have made and which to buy from Ikea. Which from a local produce store/roadside farm stall and which from the supermarket.
Which do you value and which just has to be good enough.
Myself... I have a valve pre-amp designed and built for me by Patrick Turner (Turner Audio, an Australian legend) over 20 years ago, a pair of monoblocks (I'm trying to not mentions brands you would/could have heard of) which came from a friend who bought and sold bankrupt stock and thought I might like them, and a pair of transmission line speakers from Adelaide Speakers (based surprisingly in Adelaide) which is a 2 man operation (one builds cabinets, the other does the components).
I think you can be (in industry terms) a very small boutique company, or you can be a huge worldwide corporation, but in between, you are going to have a hard time of things.
I would be very interested in what kind of system you would put together on eBay.
I’m too broke to be an audiophile, based on the outrageous costs.
I do enjoy listening to music and vinyl
I think, what you say is true for a minority. You can not pigeon hole everyone like this. I consider myself an audiophile just because i have passion. I doubt i have good ears. And audiophiles i know, go to live concerts. And like me, listen at home, looking for the emotion. I get tears of joy from my relatively cheap system. Audiophiles are generally well rounded people and all individual.
I always tell people that if your system doesn't give you chills,goose bumps or a tear to your eye then you are doing it wrong
I have a high-end audio system that gives me great emotional highs, but I also get it from listening to my cheap factory-issue stereo system in my Mazda 6. I guess, though, because I'm an "audiophile," I must just be listening to the equipment in my car, rather than the music; or is it the equipment in my house, rather than the listening to the music there? Because I like it in both places, but at home, that much more. But Jonathan of OMA has informed me that that's not true.
Wow. To me, and just my opinion, some of what this is rather nasty and untrue. For instance:
You defines the suffix "-phile" as an unhealthy obsession with something and use pedophile as a reference, as if equating audiophiles with pedophiles. That just really struck me as mean-spririted, insulting and wrong. "-phile" much more commonly just means having an affection, love or enthusiasm for something. You could have used bibliophile, cinephile, Francophile, oenophile, or any other number of words that just refer to an enthusiast or hobbyist. Or the word "philosophy," from the same Greek root.
As for all audiophiles just being in it because of an unhealthy obsession with equipment and not caring about the music, bullshit. Sure, there are those audiophiles (we probably all know someone), but my guess is most of us got into this hobby first because we love music and maybe electronics, and got hooked on the idea that we could make the music we loved sound better.
You refer to most audio writers/reviewers as having to sustain their careers by catering to the big amp/big speaker crowd and say most of them have no other skills and are "unemployable." That's another incorrect and mean-spirited statement, since with the exception perhaps of the principle editors like Harley and Austin, most reviewers that I know do it as a sideline and have other careers, are retired, or are independently wealthy. Herb Reichert is an artist; Roger van Bakel is a professional photography; Michael Trei does turntable setups; Ken Micaleff is a respected writer for a number of non-audio publications; Anthony Cordesman was a well-known military and defense analyst - and the list goes on.
You're certainly right that your products are not the norm, but there are other makers of high efficiency speakers, horn speakers, out-of-the box tables, etc., and many of those products get press. And you've gotten favorable press as well: Stereophile did a spread on the company a few years ago, and TAS did a very favorable review of his turntable.
Why so bitter?
Just to add to your list Robert Greene of TAS is a scientist professor at UCLA
Spot on!
Well said. This Jonathan guy comes across as another arrogant, self-exalted "truth-telling rebel." Generally guys like him get a couple of things right and a lot of things wrong, but speak in sweeping generalities and with great conviction as they warn you of everyone else, as they sell something of their own, in this case more high-end products. The world needs more nuance, but no one should expect it from this type of partisan speaker.
Indeed. I was going to reply to Weiss, but your comment makes that unnecessary.
Wow, this guy is full of himself. Might attract customers of his big buck systems who probably have the same mindset. I'm still curious what Fremer with his OMA K3 turntable thinks of this. "he has nothing else to do and is basically unemployable" lol
After years of trial and errors, I finally found my music enjoyment with Shindo , Fleetwood Deville SQ and Rel.The synergy is so magical that the music finally engages me deeply.
Congrats@ I found my end-game av system with Qln Prestige Speakers & Modern McIntosh Amplifiers & a vintage oldey-but-goody OPPO Blu-ray/ Universal Player. 😂 It has a pleasant & robust sound.
@@davidstein9129Interesting! Are you streaming any music through the OPPO, or just using physical media?
Which rel sub did you land on?
@@supergiddy3 Rel S 510
OK. I’m a 70 year young man who remembers the 70’s stereo wars. When we got out of high school the first things we had to have was a fast car and a good stereo system, because we needed good equipment to listen to some of the best music ever made in the 60’s and 70’s. Seems the music dropped off when the good systems declined.
I'm 75. During the 70s, when I still lived at home, I was among a small group of us in the neighborhood into high end audio. Part of it was our love of music (it starts there), but part of it was also a male ego thing. The competition to have the best hifi system was subtle but it was there. The audio habit is overwhelmingly male. Women now compete in sports like wrestling and weightlifting, but the hifi hobby still remains mostly an all male club. Women like music as much as men, but most of them don't care that much about the gear. It's refreshing to see the few women who do.
Watching his videos for a while now, and I regard him one of the rare people in the industry who knows what he is talking about and has the laid back attitude to be able to talk honestly about it. After all, he is the one who sold one of his turntables to Michael Fremer who audited a crappy plastic Crossley turntable and be able to pull some good feedback out of his hat, indicating exactly how those magazines are making money, as he said in this video.
I also agree that this industry depends on one, the imperfections of the human hearing, two, the imperfections of the human psychology, as in, people can spend high amounts of money to equipment which almost stopped evolving after the late 80’s or early 90’s, right after the THD wars of large solid state amplifiers were over and home theaters started to become the new thing. People still paying crazy amounts of money to 99cent synchronous AC motors which were invented in the late 1890’s driving a colossal mass with a rubber belt which changes tension even under normal atmospheric conditions. Maybe this is the exact reason why the ‘vintage’ equipment is still being highly regarded, as they can match or even outperform much of the current new equipment in the market today. Most highly regarded vintage equipment has stood the test of time and they are not just evaluated by the reviewers but also by the people who owned them and used them under different settings.
As for a dependable source, sorry but I don’t believe such a thing exists. Don’t know why people in the industry behave like a reference sound quality exists, and ask questions which equipment sound better. If there were such a thing, it would have put forward years ago. But, as I have said, the industry depends on the imperfections of the human hearing driven ownership pride. However, everybody hears differently, all our ears and ear channels are different, giving each and every one of us a unique equalization of the sound. We calibrate ourselves by listening different instruments under different conditions, like hearing a violin in an auditorium, in a room orchestra or from your friend 2 feet away. You develop your own reference, the same way you learn to call a color “Red” when you see the same shade. You develop your own taste and you look for that in the system you have. Nobody can tell you that you should like green and wear a green t-shirt on Mondays, because having advice on which equipment to buy is the same as asking someone which color to pick as your favorite color.
@oturgator. There are three areas in practice.
Hifi/high end
Pa- sound production
Studio sound production.
The last of these is the way to where it all starts.
Genelec is like a sky sound system, of course after a well-measured room measurement mic calibration (it is included in the Genelec SAM series), of course your room must have at least a little acoustics on your walls so that it doesn't echo like your bathroom. As has been seen and heard in many expensive hifi sets on TH-cam videos.
Most people don't understand the meaning of acoustic quality, just like an animal doesn't understand numbers.
@ I had the luck / chance / opportunity to work 2 years in 3 different recording studios. One of them had a 2” 24 channel Studer and a Soundcraft desk, one was using ADAT and they were digital only excluding the microphones and the last one was a Pro-Tools setup mainly doing voice-overs. I had the chance to listen many speakers there, Tannoy Monitor Gold 15s, JBL 4430s and 4425s, Yamaha NS-10s, ProAc Tablettes, Roger’s LS3/5s, the passive speakers that I have built as well as the active speakers like Klein & Hummel, ATC and Genelecs. Being close to the industry and being at the studio gave me a great insight.
Yamaha NS-10 exaggerates any intervention that you have done on the console, it is brutally honest which is great for mixing but not for back listening, in such cases other speakers take over. No two studio monitor speakers sound the same, even if they are from the same manufacturer and within the similar price range. Take one speaker from one treated mixing room to another treated room and the whole balance changes, even with the same amplifier, same front end and the same cables. Tape has an addictive sound character and it is hard to shake off once you create an emotional attachment to it. It feels like you have excruciating detail with digital, then you feel like you are looking at the album cover of “Eve” from Alan Parsons Project, it is good from a distance. Genelecs are the evil of the whole bunch. It is like seeing a lady in heavy makeup and then she says, “you can call me anything you want”. Heavily equalized to slap the people who have a tunnel vision on the performance metrics, selling their soul to the devil. Listened with some engineers to 3-4 models of the Genelecs and none of us thought they were adequate for the job.
I had friends in the JBL professional division who were giving me insight about what they are paying attention to while designing transducers and filters for the studio market. That is how I know some things are not what average people on the street thinks, hopes or dreams, when they see a “Studio Monitor” badge on speakers.
@@oturgator You are like a stone-hard Muslim who claims that a creature of imagination is real.
Biggest problem isn’t the equipment which, for the most part improves overtime, but the inability to find dealers where you can audition the equipment
While I see the point your trying to make. One can find no where that phile means anything other than" lover of " if you could point where the definition you spoke of exist . Regards
Yes. I agree. It's all about the music. And there is no substitute for a live performance
An audiophile is anyone who loves music and cares how it sounds. Simple as that. The label is irrelevant. Call them an enthusiast, it doesnt matter.
If there is a problem, and I dont think there really is, Jonathan is part of it, despite railing against it.
This video betrays a lack of insight which is breathtaking.
Accept the fact that a brace of cheap Chinese components can give you 80% of the quality of $30,000 of Oswalds Mill components, and I might respect your point of view more.
Especially if you can explain why an intelligent, rational, person would spend the extra to experience that 20%.
That would display true understanding, and not just a muddled set of emotional responses rooted in frustration and envy.
Edit. I am one of those wgo would spend the extra, though not necessarily on Oswalds Mill components. But I also enjoy $150 Chinese monoblocks, and there is music where flea watt amps and sensitive full range drivers will fail to adequately reproduce the dynamics. The only way round that is to have several systems.
You hit the nail on the head at the end. People no longer dedicate time to the joy of relaxing with critical music listening. Just relaxing and loving music more than the background noise some use it as.
Love the historical element of these videos, but this is “authenticity brokerage” at it’s finest: “Your life is empty, give me large sums of money so I can free you from the shackles of your stupidity/ignorance”
Authenticity Brokerage is now my phrase of the month. Thankyou !
@ you’re welcome
Sounds like you got out of bed on the wrong side after your trip to Japan!
Depressed?
Angry at the world as we slide off into oblivion?
I can understand that.
But unfortunately you're part of the system.
Who buys your beautiful and expensive equipment?
Graduates of the high-end audio treadmill?
Doctors and lawyers?
The 1%?
Are they buying because they love music, or because they want to impress their old friends ( who don't know any better;-)
For me, being an music/audio-phile means setting aside time every day in my life to sit down and appreciate good recorded music, reproduced well.
If it ever was a status symbol, those days are over.
I only have one friend who kind of gets it. It's fun to spend an evening together appreciating some good tunes.
But wait, there is an active audio community still.
The grassroots budget audio folk. The real service to this hobby are those who make high quality products accessible to the 99%
This diatribe hinted at that.
It is perfectly possible to build a decent system for less than 5K.
No need to constantly upgrade.
You need an audio system to access recorded music of course.
But who needs records?
I recently set up a lady friend with a Bluesound streamer/amp, speaker cables & pair of Wharfdale floor standing speakers from crutchfield.
All she needed in addition was a Qobuz subscription and she has access to the world of MUSIC in her home!
Why do we try to make the process prohibitively complex and unreasonably expensive??
For you Johnathan I recommended going back to bed. Get up tomorrow and listen to Beethoven's piano concerto and contemplate that new musicians & music lovers are born every day.
Wake up.
Music isn't dying.
Water the seeds!
Now, tell us how
🎵🎶😉🎶🎵
I agree entirely, yet upgrade all the time. Generally second hand, ex dem, vintage. And often funded, at least partially, by selling something else. But thats fine. Im an adult. I enjoy the gear as well as the music, and I do it with my eyes open, recognizing I am partly in thrall to the curves of a sexy vacuum tube.
Also, in my present circumstances I can afford it, and the creditors wont be scrabbling at the door. Im no victim of marketing or predatory TH-camrs.
Of course you know all this, Carlos, but I do feel the wider community need my wisdom and general Sagacity. Sagaciousness ?Sagacitoriousness ?
Profunditariosityness.
@@jimfarrell4635
Indeed friend.
I know you keep a reference system and still love to play with and fix up older classic gear.
I also run several systems. All valve, hybrid and all SS. Box speakers, panels etc.
All have their "thing" in music presentation.
I like to have options.
What's wrong with loving the gear and music?
It's a guy thing;-)
So basicslly what you are saying is that there is no progress been made jn technology and old gear is just as good and you are wondering why you are left behind as a Company 😂
Looking forward to know how many people come to you and ask you to show them the $5 to $10k system that beats the "audiophile" systems.
I'd be interested in seeing how many people Jonathan assembled eBay systems for.... Would make a great video to watch him actually build a budget system that outperforms his mega-buck OMA systems wouldn't it?
Would love to post a review but I am employable.
I have what I would call a mid-range system. I probably have a couple k in it, maybe. Decent amp, good speakers, and the source is my laptop. CDs ripped to FLAC. I have 67 year old ears. I enjoy listening to classic rock music. It is what I grew up on. An old boss of mine way back said it takes 90% of ones' effort to squeeze out the last 10% of anything. And, he said the company was not going to pay for that last 10% or so. Made sense to me. The type of music I listen to and enjoy really does not require an over-the-top crazy expensive system to play it on. At some point I think you are just throwing money away and not getting very much back in return. My system is good enough for me to tell content that mastered really well from content that is not. We are talking rock music here... After that, that is my cutoff. -- I do think you have many good points... seems to some it is more of a religion.
Hi Jonathan, interesting remarks about Japan just as OJAS is gaining traction in the U.S. It's brave of you to criticise your own industry & the well heeled. I get perverse pleasure from finding budget nuggets that sound great. We are lucky to have Chi-Fi, Hi-Rez streaming & YT objective reviews (to sort the wheat from the chaff). I know the high-end is mostly a game of small sonic differences (large differences, something's awry) that are swamped by: music mastering, room, speaker & listener position effects. I no longer need to blast music to 'improve' the experience but I'm well aware from recent live orchestra concerts that they can get loud. I just don't feel the need to repeat it at home, for 4-5 hours on a daily basis. HTH, Cheers!
What does Jonathan think of OJAS? devon Turnbull? John DeVore?
Where has great sound gone? Forget the label High end audio. It is our duty to sit people down in their late teens to late 60's to listen to a huge vintage system and say "here is great sound, do you agree?" and leave it at that. That's what happened to me at 17 and 21,where I got to sit down and listen to great big audio systems in the late 70's and early 80's. It stuck with me and I was never really impressed by what was called "HIGH END AUDIO " afterwards. I built my vintage system 30 years later for less than $4000 and it is blowing people away!
There are also active speakers that are suitable for small spaces. Many of my friends here in Europe also use Neuman, Genelec, and other active speakers, because they have been the forerunners of room-filling technologies for several generations already. And indeed they are already used in the living room for music, movies, and even gaming.
Active speakers are like the Tesla electric car compared to the combustion engine cars that hifi high-end kind of represents.
Please include your own newly experienced music (or that which you are 'revisiting') as that is why I generally follow audio-centric channels which are not totally focused on the 'hobby'. ps The US military has a great term for those of their number who are obsessed by the equipment: 'gear-queer' - which I try to keep in mind as well as the question one can always throw into a hifi conversation: 'And what about 'room treatment?'
Grand Overgeneralization. People are into audio for various resons; not mainly prestige usually, and each person is a unique individual with their own reasons why they're an audiophile. Who would they show off to anyway? Your average other person doesn't care anything about audio or high end sound quality. Most audiophiles probably don't even have any audiophile friends friends.locally. This doesn't make sense... If you tell someone you have a new Mercedes, they migt be impressed. If you tell someone you have a new PS Audio, they'd say "A What?" It could be that the decline of high end audio, ( if there is one), could simply be due to people's maturity. At some point, feeling immature and silly giving sound quality such grand over importance. Many get off the audio upgrading treadmill for the same reason that many guys stop weightlifting after high school. What made them feel superior once, to be able to lift more weight than the others, with more maturity just then seems silly. And it's a LOT OF WORK. High end audio ia a LOT OF MONEY!
This rant comes across as more than a bit disingenuous. Many vintage speakers have serious design flaws (resonances, directivity issues, low quality crossover components and cables), and Stereophile gave your Fleetwood speakers and your $360,000 turntable very positive reviews. So, who got you to where you are now and why are you whining?
Jonathan, you make some insightful observations including how the industry pushes so called "state of the art " technology, frequently at the expense of genuine high quality sound and deeper enjoyment of music. It's also curious that for many, the word audiophile has devolved to imply a kind of pathology, especially considering "phile" comes from the Greek word "philos" meaning loving or fondness. For certain,there are some audiophiles that obsess over the equipment more than the music. Plenty fall into that camp. There are also plenty of true audiophiles that love and obsess over music far more than the equipment they listen through.
Never eat Japanese Fugu fish. Very dangerous. Six of my ex wives passed away from eating that fish. But they took good life insurance policies. Bless them. I have asked my current wife to get life insurance too and then I will take her to a Japanese restaurant to celebrate. She loves seafood.
I don't really care for "high-end" audio as long as I can get high quality audio. Luckily Purifi, Genelec, Neumann etc have me covered. They have the R&D/industrial skills and equipment to reliably deliver at a sensible price. Also, it would have helped to check the etymology of the suffix -phile before pressing REC. I really dig the steampunk vibe of these OMA systems though. They are beautiful works of art.
I have a Sam Genelec multi-channel set, hifi/movie/game and that's how it is, the whole high end dream is a kind of betrayal towards people, which unfortunately many 100 thousand men and women follow like their lost tail that can't be found.
The high end road is often like reaching for madness.
In my case, words like music lover and audiophile define my perspective of the listening experience, because I do like to have the best possible equipment to listen to all my big collection of music (that increases every week). One of the first things I do after coming home from work is listening to an album, start to finish, because I truly love and cherish this amazing journey.
Unfortunately, Jonathan, like you've mentioned, the majority of High-End brands still think that low efficent speakers and huge powerfull amps are the way to go, but are simply wrong. Really good efficient speakers and really good low power tube amps are expensive to make, but in the audio industry, there aren't many brands that are capable to acomplish the goal of reproducing the recorded event.
Still, fortunately, there are some truly masterful artisans/small brands (a know a few) that built audio equipment that can achieve a remarkable approximation of the feeling of "beeing there".
Tone Controls . Or…brace yourself…a loudness button!!! Gasp! I said it. The elimination of tone controls on ultra high-end equipment speaks to the many problems with the audiophile industry. Firstly, lack of tone controls forces one to listen to what someone else has deemed proper. This subsequently leads to listening to equipment and not music.
It would be interesting to compare timelines of the market decline and the elimination of tone controls.
You want to get people interested again. Let them fiddle with options and enjoy “their” music they way they like it. Nah, instead paralyze them with fear that they are jeopardizing the integrity of the signal. Wanting to tweak the sound to your ears, room, speakers, and taste is blasphemy.
They sold a lot of really nice sounding receivers back in the day, many from Japan. Incidentally they had tunable features.
I feel that the market has forced consumers into a one sound fits all type model which is very off putting, especially when investing large sums.
I offered my second and third system to my son and daughter now that they have jobs and moved into new homes. Neither wanted the amplifiers or loudspeakers and both opted for soundbars with a subwoofers. Kids are into Netflix and streaming. I can guarantee that my sons Yamaha and klipsch subwoofer sounds amazing via his PlayStation PS5. He can switch between a game, film and music instantly. So I would agree that the upper high end market will continue and the modest gear will disappear. As for magazines you have to pay journalists! You have to do advertising in their magazine. However, your understanding the use of a word with ‘Phile’ is rather poor and disturbing in my opinion. To like something and continue liking something is a good habit. However, I find your comparison to people with obsessive sexual activities with children very bad taste. Good luck and thanks for the journey.
The Japanese were never better in camera manufacturing or watch making than the Swiss or Germans and they were never better in HiFi either let's say better than the Brits. Japan or the Japanese are excellent when it comes to build quality, but where they are really better than anybody in the world is that they understand the mass market. A Nikon or Canon was never as good as say a Leica but it was very very good for just a third of the price. A Seiko watch was never as good as a Rolex or IWC but they are very good for a fraction of the price and a Maranz,Sony, Onkyo or whatever you name it was never as good as an American build Maranz and they are not even close to all these British amps of the 80s like Mission, Arcam, Creek you name it. But it looked a lot better than these half sized gray or green boxes from England and again for a fraction of the price.
But all these Brands are not really Japanese High End. Japanese High End are Brands like Kondo, Air Tight, Phasemation, TAD, Stax etc and they cost a fortune too and they are as good as our best stuff we build. Greg Timbers (JBL) was once asked what he thinks about TAD and he said: "Yes it is awesome, it is basically JBL with better build quality" and that is true but a legendary JBL 4430 (studio monitor with 15 inch woofer and Bi-Radial Horn) was below 10 grand wile the TAD 2402 was how much 20 or 30 grand somewhere in this ballpark?
Japan has the engineers to build awesome stuff, but when they do it is not cheaper than our stuff and it is nor more or less successful.
I like Jonathan, he keeps it honest. Thank you.
Well said. Acquiring expensive audio gear is done for status and bolstering one's ego. Those who acquire hi-end audio, often buy and listen to music that is accepted by others who also acquire hi-end audio. This lack of individualism and inbreeding of musical taste causes a dissatisfaction which is appeased by focusing on attributes of the audio gear itself.
I think, we are all looking for the silence behind the Music…
Hey John! I really enjoyed your video today. You mention how you can assemble a great sounding system for 5-10k within the time span of 6 weeks. For us who love to listen and celebrate music and cannot afford your gear. It would be an amazing service to your viewers to get a few tips or road map on how we can create a great sounding system to celebrate the thing we love. MUSIC.
Cheers,
Lino
the thing is that there are more 'audiophiles' out there than there are true music lovers. people dine in fine restaurants but many dont have any deep appreciation for the cuisine. same with high end wine drinkers, too much money and not enough brains. i own infamously power hungry speakers, magnepan lrs plus and added a new and better crossover, i have to power it with a powerful crown professional amp and frankly i love the music i hear. so different strokes i guess as i have also loved my tiny tube amps and high efficiency open baffle full range drivers. as one ages hopefully the music becomes the thing.
There are way more music lovers out there.
@@supercompooper but most of them aren’t interested in owning a home stereo
@CashGravel I think it's true most aren't interested in owning a home stereo, and I have an entirely different perspective on it than Jonathan here. More of a Marxist perspective. The focus of capitalism on producing commodities for exchange value rather than the use value leads to a prioritization of convenience, affordability, and portability over quality. The commodification of music itself alienates individuals from a deeper engagement with it. Music consumption becomes a background activity rather than a focused, immersive experience, reducing the perceived need for high quality reproduction. Where I do agree with Jonathan here is the culture of planned obsolescence and technological fetishism where the constant turnover of devices and marketing of new features shift attention from enduring, high quality audio equipment to disposable, Tech forward gadgets. But I think the biggest lead blanket to it all is the cultural hegemony, aka the ideological dominance of convenience over quality. The way that corporations propagate this really does shape consumer preferences. Marketing campaigns prioritize mobility and accessibility and frame them as more desirable than traditional notions of audiophile sound quality. Fundamentally if people cannot appreciate quality they do not understand quality and will not seek it out and this is a cultural phenomenon at its core.
Jonno old son , your products are on the front page of hifi magazines , interesting contradiction #1
And #2 I can think of a few pro audio gurus who would laugh at your statement concerning public address sound.
Any way keep up the amusing content , it’s fun . 🥁🙏🏼🐬
As a very active rep way back in the 70's, doing booth duty at both CES shows, ... it was VHS that killed Audio. When "good enough" video became the acceptable alternative to media, even crappy bootleg copies, "good enough" sound became acceptable as well. First just some solutions from video discs to various tape formats from the big names to complete separate sections of the convention. With porn becoming it's own industry, they would have a convention outside the CES. Suddenly Audio was becoming a smaller section. Bigger CRTs became flat panels and multimedia audio was replacing 2 channel.
1. Audiophile isn't a dirty word, but boy did you make quite an asertion otherwise. Some collect cars, does that make them an automobilephile?
2. Ends it with the classic line of... "acknowleding there is a problem is the first step".
3. Johnathon, I am sure your company creates fine products. However, the video feels like you are just talking down to your audience...almost whining about the lack of a high end market is somehow a bad thing. Weird.
4. The demographics of the USA simply don't support the expansion of what you might call the "high end" equipment market any more. Your company can either play in the larger (low fi) market or not. That's your choice as a business person. Live with it.
People spend their money like they want and capitalism isn't your problem to fix.
It's interesting, though, how people in America (at least in these kinds of forums) often savage audiophiles' interest in, desire for, and ownership of expensive gear, but not so much the lovers of cars, watches, handbags, shoes, modern art, sports gear, incredibly expensive meals out, and so on. I think it's simply that those items/purchases are regarded as more socially acceptable, or at least more comprehensible.
When will you produce audio equipment that is accessible to by listeners who have limited budgets. Speakers and turntables costing hundreds thousands of dollars, pounds or euros is for those who in a small demographic group who may or may-not even get involved in the music being played. So a-system costing less than $2000 can give the listener that sense or emotion and pleasure from what ever music they play. A properly setup system can pro-tray what has been recorded at whatever performance and in some case sound better. I have been to concerts of orchestral, jazz and rock where the sound quality and balance has reined a good performance by the musicians on stage. I do appreciate the qualities of high end audio and if could afford it would go there. But in the meantime for the majority of those of us who do get emotional involved in our listening what the audio industry produces is what we’ve got.
Very interested in your next video, and extending the conversation
Mr. Weiss, it appears to me you succeeded in provoking answers, albeit not suggestions to the specific challenge formulated by you at the end of the video, but rather a breadth of views on your general attitude and stance towards "audiophilia" at present. The overall tone and nature of many of those replies are not without merit, because they reflect what your video blog is really about and which (rightly so) calls for a strong reaction. I remember reading your blogs years ago on your website, and lamented that there weren't more of them being that I found what you addressed needed to be said to call into question (and bring attention to) what audio reproduction today has come to be about, also and in particular the domestic audio industry with its marketing hoopla, technology praise, dodging physics with regard to speakers, etc. It also became clear to me however that what you advocated was something that progressively closed around itself, like the push for conical horns as the only "true" horns, cabinets/horns made of hardwoods (from PA not least), low powered SET's, analogue sources, etc. I don't doubt that these very aspects, properly integrated and implemented, can have an important say in what evokes what we're lacking in much of audio reproduction today, but any which way you want to bend this there are different ways to skin your cat within this realm (and you very well know that), and much cheaper as well; both curved horn geometry, a digital source, solid state amps, active configuration and so forth - still based on high eff. pro drivers and horns variants of large size, or even non horn-loaded AMT/ribbons - can serve up something great sounding. Promoting your own approach as the only real one, including the appreciation of music, to me comes off both arrogant, seemingly uninformed and as a forced marketing effort in itself. There's an important message of yours buried underneath it all, but take care not to saw off the branch you're sitting on in the process, if you haven't already.
"Game changer", "Giant killer", "Best of all"...8 out of 10 youtubers use these themes for their videos...BS
"Destroys things at twice the price".
Snoppy rich dude that thinks that quality only belongs to the spoiled richie rich's of the world 😢😢
I have to grin. On several levels. My investment in records and cds vastly, ask my wife……exceeds my gear purchases over the years. The educated read, and listen, and read and read. And at the end of the day your statement that nothing is that much better than it was 50 years ago is true. Keeping up with the Jones mentality is the problem, because as you pointed out, having a good stereo is not in vogue these days. And when a basic pickup truck starts at 50K well, . And to honest Jonathan, if I’d started saving years ago I couldn’t afford your turntables😊 I’ve owned the same amp for over 20 years now, same brand of tube preamp for same. Phono cartridges and playing with speaker crossovers are my weakness. Must be tough being in your price bracket and still getting no respect. I wish you luck.
I would love you to put more videos out elaborating on this topic. Just a great example from a Hifi show I attended to last week: Out of all the crazy priced 7 figure mega bucks systems only a single one conveyed true emotions (some sounded fine but not more, some even sounded aggressive and metallic ... how can that be for state of the art systems costing around 2mio euros?). The emotional one had a turntable spinning with even a lot of "none audiophile recordings" (in every sense) and I just straight didn't move for three hours since it was a delight. Then I had a chat with a guy known to make custom order high end tube amps tailored to your needs. I got intrigued, talked about what I am looking for (having in mind that a great well built amp should bring many years of joy) just for him to tell me that it will be fine for 2 years, after that I'll have to sell it off anyways since he will have a new thing out like usual which will "wipe the floor" with whatever I bought before. At this point I totally lost interest in what he has to offer ...
Bravo. well said.
Personally I think he is right, small “boutique” audio manufacturers like his are not taken seriously mostly because famous magazines tend to review products from bigger companies.. and by the way did you notice in recent years how almost ALL reviewers tend to stress on the good aspects of a product instead of focusing on the flaws..? It is like “oh, the tweeter is disconnected from the misrange BUT it produces an organic full sound…”.. There are no unbiased reviewers anymore out there and if you think that some magazines have been sued for “not particularly good” reviews you can understand how big is their responsibility (pressure..?) to speak well about manufacturers…
And moreover I think that we’ve reached an era in which there are not improvements anymore, I’m very heard some million dollars system in Munich which sounded worse than vintage setups with outdated electronics and speakers… he s right now “audiophiles” are not interested in the music they only enjoy the gear.
For the average user who enjoys listening to music, a carefully selected 1000usd/eur system will be quite enough.
Only the system above 10,000 usd/eur will bring any significant difference compared to the first one. Everything else falls into the "let's measure it" category.
You’ve made an insightful observation about the high-end audio industry, especially regarding the influence of reviews and the behaviors of buyers. It’s true that, for many, high-end audio equipment often seems to become more about prestige and aligning with popular opinions than actual sound quality. The sway of well-established “industry mavericks” and the elevated status of certain brands or products often drives purchasing decisions, sidelining the personal experience of how the system actually performs.
Your point about audio reviews being influenced by monetary gain or favoritism is particularly significant. It underscores the importance of critical thinking and firsthand evaluation when making such investments. It’s a reminder that sound quality is deeply subjective, and chasing status or the “next big thing” can lead many away from enjoying the core purpose of audio: an authentic, personal listening experience.
What do you think would help shift the focus back to sound quality? A greater emphasis on independent reviews, better access to unbiased dealer experiences, or something else?
Well said, I’ve been saying exactly the same thing for years Audiophile is an obsession with buying gear rather than enjoying music
or perhaps it can be and often is both.
Finding audio nirvana is a journey. It's that journey that should be enjoyed and not a means to an end. Although others may simply suffer from g.a.s. (gear acquisition syndrome), which no amount of gear will ever be satisfactory.
Greetings All - A full opine range here - so I'd start with ... listening... in a perfect world I would listen to an album side 5 nights a week - in reality I get maybe twice a week - if you don’t enjoy your system no matter how much or little is spent ... like owning a vacation home or an 70s RS Porsche you haven't experienced in a year or more ... excetional gear unused is... sad. Not every musical experience is a perfectly curated event - stumble into a pub or a street musician sounding better than your last concert seat is always a moment ... one stops and ... listens
Japan is sure a cool place to visit for vinyl. I lived over there for a year. Tons of options to buy vinyl there. The Japanese are for the most part much more cultured than most in the US. They are much more in tune with how music sounds, their knowledge of jazz and classical is usually excellent to superb. The items I would add to your original comments on Japan are they did press the best sounding vinyl, The quietest vinyl, experimented with vinyl formulations, experimented with flat profile vinyl (as seen in some of the Toshiba - EMI DOR and DAM releases, the Blue Note BLP flat profile releases), cut many titles at 45 RPM. King Records (who was originally trained by Decca UK back in the late 1950s to early 1960) went on to surprass Decca and experimented with groove spacing or pitch to arrive at the King laboratory series where they cut lacquers directly from tape with no EQ or compression which later evolved into the King Super Analogue series. would agree with you comments on many in the high end pushing super inefficient speakers requiring large amounts of power and current to produce this sterile non-musical sound all in the name of "accuracy". When a person puts on a favorite piece of music how long does some of this gear keep said person's rear end glued to the listening seat? For much of this gear its not very long. Boredom sets in pretty fast.
I dig your humility.😂
in audiophile words, what we need is: balance control ⚖
Maybe you, John Devore, Peter Qvortrup, Klipsch, Avant Garde and the Shindo guys could form some kind of association in an attempt to push back? They all make high sensitivity speakers. Oh, it was very sad to hear that Verity Audio is no more. They seemed like good guys too.
And what does Jonathan think of these manufacturers?
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 No idea! But he's asking for solutions to a problem, and that's where my mind went to.
True, it CAN be overlooked. Great point.
Verity Audio homepage is still up, and they still sound good. Also Maarten Design mingus even though very modern looking, are very natural in sound beating many of the older designs that are known for being the most natural speakers.
I wish more “audiophiles” had balls like this❤️
More arrogance and ignorance than balls, IMHO...
High end is often a scam to collect money from stupid people into better pockets. It's cold business.
Sound quality characteristics should be measured by comparing competing products with the same speaker enclosure volumes, so that the comparison value ratio clarifies the listener in the same space and in the same places. Of course, with the same music too. High end products (speaker listening settings) do not represent anything but big talk, not covered by comparison ratings that should be in every test at high end fairs.
The spirit of the game is ALWAYS measured BY COMPARISON METHODS EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT THAT HUMANS MAKE!! Otherwise, the development of products will be more inconsistent.
OMA wants to cater to the 1% that can afford their gear. Tears are shed!
basically technically speaking only one loudspeaker model should be enough to satisfy all expectations regarding sound reproduction at home or in a residential venue. have it high efficiency , three way and quality build. the reality of the market is very different because consumption culture is based on idea we are all different and to satisfy our deepest ego we need to acquire something unique. you can by the way acquire something unique at any price level and that's a deal. some also manage to offer the right product and to bring it to be unique they ask very high price for it bringing those able to afford that close to unique as well.
Why so bitter?
A lot of anger, arrogance, and gross generalizations here. Perhaps you should look in the mirror…
Bad hair day
Think you are really talking about wealthy Audiophiles.
I don't have an awswer for the issues you bring up either but, will think about it more & hope you record any insights you discover. I do have some feedback I think you are a bit black & white about either someone enjoys music or is fixated on always looking for the latest best thing. I honestly am a bit of both but, if it wasn't for the music I love & what I am continuing to discover, via streaming (the most exciting part of the passion for me) I wouldn't be interested in the 'stuff' at all. Also, as a side note I do get the quality of everything your company makes & am very impressed with everything from the materials to the electronics, research & handcrafting. Unforunately, I am a person who has a budget that can't afford your products, not that I think you should make more affordable ones. So I exist in a situation where I have to try products that I can afford. My only option being trying them at home. I have with some components found exactly what pleases me, like speakers but, still continue to look for others. I do appreciate your comments & thoughts & will look forward to others.
Will never be able or desire to pay crazy money as a single and only parent to two kids in college.
It is an extremely time consuming endeavor, trying to put together a high end system. I visited many stores and manufacturers for close to two years, listening to so many different systems.
Many things I learned too late, i.e. after I bought my first high end system, which drained most of my resources.
Looking for high efficient speakers is something I’d do now. There are not too many. Tobian Sound Systems is one of the few high end producers for highly efficient speakers in Europe that would also appeal to me from a visual point of view. I’d probably visit OMA if I were in the US.
Also I’d look at tube amps, probably NAT Audio.
Additionally, looking at companies that offer complete systems or almost complete systems is something I find attractive.
Finding someone who is into music and high end gear for several decades who can be a mentor might be something I’d do if I were to start all over.
I do believe the bookshelf speaker behind you cost 15k. Only a few can afford that. Tell me if i am wrong.
A great system is one that can extract emotion from the listener. I am 70yo and still love my haflers and adcom equipment.
With that said you are not wrong.
Excellent point of view…
I really enjoyed this video.
My favourite amplifier I own is a Pioneer sa 6200 the top of the line in 1973, 15watts per channel, but man, the sound is so good matched with a pair of wharfedale rosedales.
The build quality on the SA 6200 is great.
The only week I've done after it was serviced and rebuilt/recapped was to use a pair of 10db rca attenuators on the power amp input, just increase the signal to noise ratio.
Rosedale speakers are 95db sensitivity, the SA 6200 drives them effortlessly.
I really enjoy your channel, and salivate over the oma products.
...and I totally agree with your thoughts on the state of high end gear and enjoyed your previous videos on listening.
And audio technica carts so good,I've found they sound their best with a capatence load of 100uf.
Arguing that on the one hand you can put a better than SP/AS system together for $10,000, but also repeatedly referring to your $360,000-400,000 turntable seems a bit schizophrenic/disingenuous. Agree on the nonsense in magazines. Fremer is possibly the worst of the bunch, parroting in a recent AS TT review that 1 arc second is audible (complete physics nonsense on so many different levels). My solution is to get something decent by broad consensus of various sources with bias to my preferences, and realize that our head will do a lot of "white balance" through habituation/psychoacoustics. No need to sweat the details. Just listen to music, particularly new music, because that is where the excitement is.
This man makes some very interesting and good products. He should let his products stand for themselves and get over himself.
Did you investigate Shakti Stone over in Japan…I don’t believe in much, but I believe in Shakti Stone….What say you?
I think one potential idea is having listening clubs…. Sort of like a workout club; but you join, and have access to listening to great systems that you couldn’t afford on your own, but you go and listen with like minded music lovers.
eBay killed vintage stores two ways; velocity of sales and inflation of prices. Technology reviews always outsell art reviews. Most people cannot afford OMA. If want to change the market all you can do is become a mentor to super affordable audio manufacturers.
I think the video has a lot of great point but it miss that there is a lot of affordable (expensive to normal people) HiFi brands out there. The so called High End is ridiculous and overpriced without actually delivering anything extra at all when it comes to the music. I am talking about brands like, Arcam, Rotel / Michi , Yamaha, Exposure , Rega etc etc etc. He is spot on that High End is all about the gear and not the music. It's like Formula one Cars, fun to watch but not real a car that you would want in your everyday life if you are not ultra rich so you can have like 10 cars and drive on race tracks.
Hi Jonathan, I’d recommend people go to an audio or hifi club meeting where they will meet seriously clever DIY’ers and audio engineers as well as “Audiophiles” and make some new likeminded friends. Within such clubs you will hear custom hand built equipment that’s blind tested against the very best of what’s available in the mainstream stores and on the covers of Hi-end magazines where companies pay big money to have there products featured/advertised. I consider myself an audiophile and I do like gear as well as the music. I have been to the last two Sydney HiFi shows and didn’t hear much that came close to my own system that was in my affordable range. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been into a bricks and mortar hifi shop to purchase anything other than headphones in the last twenty years. Im in the minority that enjoys music above all, but only on exceptional equipment because the sound quality matters to me. Thanks for your video’s there always interesting.
Thx for explaining life and evolution.
Young people listen to music via headphones and many appreciate good sound and play in bands. That’s wonderful.
I have heard high efficiency speakers and inefficient tube amps at shows and at friends’ houses and I don’t understand what fuss is about.
I have yet to hear any of your impressive looking equipment. Living in Sweden I suspect any US made goods will be even more expensive next year.