A quick google search shows The Absolute Sound (Fremer) covered OMA's K5 turntable at the Munich show last year. It takes a lot of hubris to trash audio magazines while holding up issues where OMA has a featured review of their 6-figure turntable on the cover.
Fremer came into our Munich room with his video camera, there was nothing published in any of the magazines, neither The Absolute Sound, Stereophile, or their foreign equivalents.
You make home stereos that often cost more than most people's homes. OMA is clearly a member of the club you don't seem to approve of. Here's an idea. Why don't you make a $15k-$20k system like you could buy used on EBay for those of us who love the music more than the equipment?
That would be a great segment of you putting an amazing stereo with proper sound off eBay/using vintage pieces. While doing it educating us young people who never grew up with great sound.
Jonathan...with all due respect, you come across as jaded, arrogant, and perhaps a little bitter in this video. While I believe your heart is in the right place about music, I think you are only seeing what you want to see in the industry. PEOPLE STILL LOVE MUSIC! You seem angry that they don't want to spend exorbitant money to buy "high end" gear to enjoy music. Largely, you're right - and they don't have to anymore. The average "mid-fi" system sold at Best Buy today easily outperforms so-called "high-end" systems of the past in many measurable ways, including being half the cost. Technology has advanced as well as the understanding of what makes great sound. Passion still exists, but styles change over time. Car guys who passionately built hot rods in the '50's changed to muscle cars in the '60's, British sports cars in the 70's, German cars in the '80's, rice burners in the '90's, super cars in the 2000's...etc. You can't say that the passion for cars is dead because building hot rods in the back yard from old parts is not the mainstream choice anymore. Today, I see young guys with ALOT of passion about their music - and are willing to spend thousands on high-end headphones, DACs, streamers, and even flea-watt tube amps to enjoy it. Other people spend hundreds, even thousands to go see their favorite musicians in live concert. And the people that design and build and install and run these multi-million dollar live sound rigs DO care about great sound, and it is getting better every year. Is it the same as sitting quietly between 2 speakers at home and spinning vinyl? No, but it is about the passion and experience of music, and it is far better than the systems of the past. I have musician friends who will talk for HOURS about the SQ differences between microphones, or what different drumheads sound like on stage or in the studio. I would encourage you to see the passion for music where it IS, not where YOU think it should be. You'll find plenty of people out there who still care about great sound. Change with the times, or get left behind in obscurity and irrelevance.
wow, you think best buy gear betters a really great audio system .... could not disagree more ......... Sorry, there is no free lunch, a great $200.000 system will outperform anything at best buy Just the thing that you can´t afford a super-great audio system ... deos that make it ok o trash guys who do these things for the love of music I can´t afford the systems that Jonathan makes, but I really love and appreciates what he does ❤ Are you aware that the OMA K5 turntable took something like 5 years to develop and the only other products in the world that utilises the same motor as the K5 costs more than 100 million dollars...... do you think best buy do these things? Still, I love that K5 spinning in the back and wanna audition one ......
@Harald-MacGerhard No, you didn't comprehend my point. I said many current "mid-fi" systems measurably outperform "hi-fi" systems OF THE PAST. Not current mega-buck hi-fi systems. You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
@@dmark2639 I would agree if you restrict your "past" systems to say the 80s and 90s. Will definitely disagree with it when it comes to the equipment that OMA is based on. The Western Electric and RCA horn systems when properly installed can give a much better musical experience than many current H-End products. Yes, horns are an acquired taste and if you don't enjoy that type of sound you will disagree with me and that's understandable. OMA is doing a great job of using the past to inform their design and sound to get the best of both worlds.
@@beauranheim8694most anyone in this thread cannot afford a system from them, let alone even hear it. All we have to go on are the aesthetics and branding of OMA products. If most everyone here was honest with ourselves, we’d admit that. The person you’re bickering with made a good point. It’s called marginal utility; you cannot it good faith be disappointed in the lack of interest in a system where design decisions were made to increase the likelihood of being featured in the Robb Report as aspirational porn instead of making the right engineering choices to maximize performance. For one, solid woods are used for aesthetics, not acoustics. And that’s evident by the fact that you can choose different wood species, all of which have different densities and structural composition. Don’t come back with that decision was made because the system was tuned to a specific hardwood because it made the best results.
Jonathan creates a video about the future of high end audio. A topic he then does not discuss. Instead he craps on anyone stupid enough to be part of the market his company caters to. He craps on the magazines that he ever so casually ensures you notice that has OMA on the cover. Not sure what this was supposed to do other than waste 13.15 mins of my day.
This seems a bit hypocritical. The guy creates and sells beautiful super high-end audio equipment, that the average music loving Joe could never afford. He is catering for the very few who can purchase such equipment, largely as that status symbol he’s rallying against here. Why else would one spend 10s of thousands on the equipment he and others make, who’s audio quality despite I assume being very good, is at diminishing returns, compared to much cheaper equipment that’ll still give you that enjoyment of the music, if that’s what important. He seems to be shooting himself in the foot. If a person genuinely loves music, and that’s the main driving force, as he encourages. And not the quality of the bass, high end, soundstage etc…(audiophile parlance 😉) which doesn’t affect the “enjoyment” of music anyway. Is also subjective and differs from person to person. You can get that from a smartphone and headphones, why buy his stuff? Not that I wouldn’t if I could, it’s beautiful high quality product, so why not? But he seems to be making an argument against what he does for a living, and doesn’t seem to be clear about what he wants to get across here. Anyway, first world problems. I still admire what he and his company make.
Well-said. He wants you to thread a needle and presume that his fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only, or is primarily for real music lovers, whereas other fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only for equipment lovers.
I dont entirely disagree with you David, but the "quality of the bass, soundstage etc." is what audiophilia is all about and does indeed affect the enjoyment of the music. Thats not to say the music itself isnt the main thing, and can be enjoyed independantly of its reproduction. Sometimes a song on a transistor radio can have more emotional impact than the same song on a high end stereo. If, for example you are sitting round a fire on a lonely beach in the Western Islands of Scotland, holding the hand of the love of your life, as opposed to sitting by yourself in a soundproof basement. However, under most circumstances Id rather hear the song reproduced in the best way possible. Edit: Dont forget. Smokey the bear says be careful building fires in the wilderness, and actually Ultimate Ears Bluetooth speakers are a better choice for beaches.
@ I agree too. A good quality recording (the most important aspect when it comes to sound quality, as you need a strong base to start with!) played through a very high-quality playback system can add to the enjoyment, but it’s not essential for that enjoyment, is what I’m saying. And when I said diminishing returns, I meant that I don’t believe say a $50,000 speaker setup is going to sound proportionately better than a $5,000 one. As for the differing sound qualities of amps, from experience that’s very subjective, if there at all. Most don’t have “golden” ears (if such a thing exists) and are going to struggle to tell the difference between the “sound” of different amps. But again, I appreciate the quality and or jewel like aspect if you like, of such gear.
Money does buy you better sound IF you choose wisely. Having said that, I was shocked by how much pleasure a $50 in-ear monitor gave me recently. My point is that you can get tremendous pleasure with not that many greenbacks. Can you get more pleasure with more greenbacks? If you choose wisely, then for sure. 😊
This holier than thou shtick that "my outrageously priced gear is okay because it's all about the music, while everyone else just wants to rip you off", gets pretty old pretty quick. Jonathan whines that the magazines don't give him coverage, while holding up two that have his products on the cover. I also know for a fact - I have seen the email - that Jonathan threatened to sue a magazine for a perceived slight, that didn't even mention him, his company, or its products by name. No wonder they are reluctant to give him coverage!
I love music. Specifically jazz. I’m also a veteran with some hearing issues. So, that being said, I only have to spend money for equipment that works foe ME. I can appreciate equipment like you produce, I really can, but it’s not in the realm of someone like me that will never be able to appreciate its full potential. Now I’m also 77 years young and have been buying equipment since I was in my early 20s. Audiophiles wouldn’t even give me the time of day because of my system, and that’s sad, but I don’t care because it WORKS FOR ME. Love you site. Keep up the good work.
Good for you. Do what works best for you. You're not alone; most everyone (let's say, the more mature demographic) who buys high end equipment has heavily compromised hearing. It's the elephant in the room. 'Get this uber DAC, get this diamond cantilever cartridge!', etc, etc. Buddy, your hearing is down probably 30dB at critical frequencies! Father Time, forever undefeated. As is human folly.
Im 47, Ive been into music and stereo since i was a teen. Ive always Loved both the Music and the Gear used to reproduce it. I have through the years owned many entry / budget amps and speakers. heck ive even run things off a home theater amp. My current set up revolves around the Rotel A 11 Tribute intergraded amp($600) and matching Cd Player ($300) and a pair of used Bowers and Wilkins bookshelf 685 s2 ($400) - Im all in right now for $1300 and i love it. I love the design aesthetics and the sound and it fits within my budget. I dont judge anyone for any of their gear. I just hope more people get into the hobby weather it is through headphones, bluetooth speakers or 2 channel systems. I dont care why or for what reason young kids today buy vinyl. im just glad its still available and thriving. Just my rant and 2 cents
"Ya get more mileage from a cheap pair of speakers..." Billy Joel had it right. Joy is not in things. That's hard, cause filling up the hole that modern life digs is frightening.
also - “The suffix "-phile" means "lover of" or "enthusiast of". It's often used in scientific and everyday terms, especially in biology and psychology” 😊
One of my pet theories is that listening pleasure started to go downhill when stereo was introduced. There’s something asocial and amusical about sitting still in the perfect sweet spot, exactly midway between two speakers, facing straight ahead and with closed eyes. Especially since the only bonus of doing so is the ability to point at the position of the different musicians in the recording. My motto must be back to Mono. Just imagine purchasing one great speaker instead of two less so (same price budget), and the same goes for amplification. Just imagine being able to listening to music on a great mono system with friends sitting together, rather than having to change seats with them regularly so everyone will get their fair share of some imaginary bliss of a pin point stereo focus. For me timbre, texture and dynamics is the key to musical enjoyment not stereo precision. Greetings from Denmark
Get thee to thine Echo Dot, Sirrah ! You talk the damnedest Heresy and will find thyself condemned to have thine liver consumed by a Feral and Voracious Wiim streamer each day, till it regrows at sunset. Or SunSET as true Audiophiles do name it. I havent watched the video yet but that bloke radiates SMUG like a KT150 radiates heat.
There's a lot of truth to your comment. We recently bought one floor model of B&O A9 for the living room. Both my wife and non-audiophile son loved the music it produced. It's not cheap, it's mono, but it's very simple to use (stream from any phones) and it produces great sound both at low and high volume. Oh, and it looks great in the corner of the room with a custom cover on.
Im thinking about to set up a good stereo system in the physics room in my school. Maybe a regular, midday break music session could give some kids an idea, what a powerful experience listening is. The music could / should change through all genres, but should be analog or at least from a physical format. Something as an alternative to spending your break on your phone. Even our music teacher uses a wireless, portable speaker. Non of the parents got a decent stereo setup. Maybe i should try it. Greetings from Germany.
That was how I first was exposed to a well set up hifi. In school, in the music classroom, the system was Philips not too fancy but with speakers in the right place. We could bring our own lps. That impressed me for life. That was i 1976.
the best I know is listening to my records in the late night (low volume) HiFi disappears and music appears (I do have high sensitivity (DIY) speakers driven by low-power tube amp)
Great idea for an audio rug on your part. Congrats. A central part if my upgraded audio system is powered by a little, low power Pathos Hybrid Tube Amp. It's a little mighty might..looks adorable, & sounds so sweet. One of my absolute fav end-gane audio pieces. 😮😅
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708 it sounds absolutely fantastic 😊 coming from someone who heard a full oma system at their dumbo location. Totally natural sound, almost weird to experience it
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708I simply don’t know🤔… I heard the Fleetwood Deville but that is just a mediocre loudspeaker. Old-fashioned in a negative sense. Never heard their top of the line products.
The best thing about this is going through the comments looking for the small nuggets of true wisdom. What a beautiful time to be alive. Thanks for your perspective. About the boom comments, it's probably where they were standing in the room, bass can act like that.
Hey John! I really enjoyed your video today. You mention how you can assemble a great sounding system for 5-10k within the time span of 6 weeks. For us who love to listen and celebrate music and cannot afford your gear. It would be an amazing service to your viewers to get a few tips or road map on how we can create a great sounding system to celebrate the thing we love. MUSIC. Cheers, Lino
Sorry Jonathan, but 'anyone' pursuing the ultimate audio experience, money no object, can be considered an audiophile! As a musician, producer and music lover, I've been fortunate enough to have listened to some pretty esoteric systems, as well as pro studio set-ups. At the end of the day, your products are a niche market for the fanatical wealthy. Most musicians and music lovers I know, are discerning about fidelity to a point (some owning pretty respectable systems) - prefering to concentrate spend on their album collections. Would they buy your artisan products if they could? Sure, but most can't afford it. Thankfully, it doesn't make them less passionate about music, or that they're not hearing what the artist/producer intended with 'lesser' set-ups.
After years of trial and errors, I finally found my music enjoyment with Shindo , Fleetwood Deville SQ and Rel.The synergy is so magical that the music finally engages me deeply.
Congrats@ I found my end-game av system with Qln Prestige Speakers & Modern McIntosh Amplifiers & a vintage oldey-but-goody OPPO Blu-ray/ Universal Player. 😂 It has a pleasant & robust sound.
Love the historical element of these videos, but this is “authenticity brokerage” at it’s finest: “Your life is empty, give me large sums of money so I can free you from the shackles of your stupidity/ignorance”
You're talking about listening to the system through the music rather than the other way around. Admittedly, I've put on a CD or vinyl record because of the way it sounds through my system but only if I enjoy the music in the first place. All audiophiles began their obsession because they love music. It starts there. If listening to music to you doesn't go beyond turning on the radio, then you could never become an audiophile. If it means a lot more, look out, because once you take that first step into audiophilia, if you're not careful and disciplined, you can be sucked into this vortex of buying and trading up your equipment in search of the holy grail. And it never ends until you get burned out or go broke.
I found the Genelec glm/sam/aes/ebu digital master series. There has been no return to any high end brand with passive speakers, because they already lag behind in sound quality characteristics. And quite hifi in use in the living room with an audio streamer. Most of humanity walks with their eyes closed. Every single second, minute, month and year searching for the edge areas of passive hifi/high end in the swamp. Active speakers (GENELEC) dsp room correction with measurements is the only way to your complete happiness.
I would be very interested in what kind of system you would put together on eBay. I’m too broke to be an audiophile, based on the outrageous costs. I do enjoy listening to music and vinyl
I think, what you say is true for a minority. You can not pigeon hole everyone like this. I consider myself an audiophile just because i have passion. I doubt i have good ears. And audiophiles i know, go to live concerts. And like me, listen at home, looking for the emotion. I get tears of joy from my relatively cheap system. Audiophiles are generally well rounded people and all individual.
I have a high-end audio system that gives me great emotional highs, but I also get it from listening to my cheap factory-issue stereo system in my Mazda 6. I guess, though, because I'm an "audiophile," I must just be listening to the equipment in my car, rather than the music; or is it the equipment in my house, rather than the listening to the music there? Because I like it in both places, but at home, that much more. But Jonathan of OMA has informed me that that's not true.
I love your videos and highly respect your opinion expressed therein, but as a linguist, have to disagree with you on the use of the pre- and suffix “phil”, both in meaning and connotation, as it is used to express love, not the excess or pathology thereof. As a philanthropist (pun intended), not to mention philosophically speaking (more puns), one would be hard-pressed to come up with many more negative examples such as the one you used (the vile nature whereof is implied in the psychology of the subject matter itself rather than the terminology). The term “audiophile”, as far as I understand it, applies both to those who use a system to listen to music, as well as those you’re alluding to, who use music to listen to a system. I’m a music lover myself and have no problem referring to myself as an audiophile. My audiophile acquaintance covers the whole spectrum, so that there are those with whom I’ll discuss classical music primarily, and the fact alone that once in a blue moon they’ll inquire about hum caused by their phono stage doesn’t prove they’re in any way more interested in gear than music. Besides, as someone who started designing and building loudspeakers myself from the age of 14 or 15, out of disappointment of the inability of commercially available ones to convey the sound of a piano as I heard it on a regular basis when my sister practiced on our late grandmother’s Steinway, I recognize a fellow audiophile in you, someone who’s organized gatherings of likeminded “philes” and spent a lifetime pursuing the improvement of the sound of music. There’s a factor of intelligibility or lack thereof of e.g. speech in an opera, a play or even an audiobook where the two types of audiophiles meet, which happens to be where our ability to distinguish between instrument (makers), artists and interpretations of compositions becomes compromised. This fine line is where we all meet, as audiophiles, human beings who appreciate the sound of…
Your final question/point reminded me of an old... joke(?). Two tourists are driving round Ireland enjoying everything about the place, but one day, while out in a remote area driving down a country lane, they decide to go to Belfast. Now, this comes from before the internet, so... so they drive around and are hopelessly lost and they pull over when they see what looks like a local walking down the lane. "Excuse me, how do we get to Belfast?" one asks. The local looks up the lane and then down the lane, thinks for a moment and then says "Well, I wouldn't start from here". We are in a world where the average person gets music for free or as close to free as makes no difference. That means it isn't considered as valuable. and if it isn't valuable why spend big on equipment when (and it's true) low to mid equipment is VERY cheap and we live in a culture of convenience. People now want everything delivered to them (on a platter) and as long as that happens, quality seems unimportant. Just look at the "Menu Log" adverts on the TV(at least here in Australia). The conundrum of the modern world, deciding which things to have made and which to buy from Ikea. Which from a local produce store/roadside farm stall and which from the supermarket. Which do you value and which just has to be good enough. Myself... I have a valve pre-amp designed and built for me by Patrick Turner (Turner Audio, an Australian legend) over 20 years ago, a pair of monoblocks (I'm trying to not mentions brands you would/could have heard of) which came from a friend who bought and sold bankrupt stock and thought I might like them, and a pair of transmission line speakers from Adelaide Speakers (based surprisingly in Adelaide) which is a 2 man operation (one builds cabinets, the other does the components). I think you can be (in industry terms) a very small boutique company, or you can be a huge worldwide corporation, but in between, you are going to have a hard time of things.
You hit the nail on the head at the end. People no longer dedicate time to the joy of relaxing with critical music listening. Just relaxing and loving music more than the background noise some use it as.
Where has great sound gone? Forget the label High end audio. It is our duty to sit people down in their late teens to late 60's to listen to a huge vintage system and say "here is great sound, do you agree?" and leave it at that. That's what happened to me at 17 and 21,where I got to sit down and listen to great big audio systems in the late 70's and early 80's. It stuck with me and I was never really impressed by what was called "HIGH END AUDIO " afterwards. I built my vintage system 30 years later for less than $4000 and it is blowing people away!
There are also active speakers that are suitable for small spaces. Many of my friends here in Europe also use Neuman, Genelec, and other active speakers, because they have been the forerunners of room-filling technologies for several generations already. And indeed they are already used in the living room for music, movies, and even gaming. Active speakers are like the Tesla electric car compared to the combustion engine cars that hifi high-end kind of represents.
Hi Jonathan, interesting remarks about Japan just as OJAS is gaining traction in the U.S. It's brave of you to criticise your own industry & the well heeled. I get perverse pleasure from finding budget nuggets that sound great. We are lucky to have Chi-Fi, Hi-Rez streaming & YT objective reviews (to sort the wheat from the chaff). I know the high-end is mostly a game of small sonic differences (large differences, something's awry) that are swamped by: music mastering, room, speaker & listener position effects. I no longer need to blast music to 'improve' the experience but I'm well aware from recent live orchestra concerts that they can get loud. I just don't feel the need to repeat it at home, for 4-5 hours on a daily basis. HTH, Cheers!
Jonathan, thank you for this ! I cannot even start telling you how much I agree with you, with your sentiment around Audiophiles, me being a one of the bunch until recently. I came to realize that music and also music discovery is WHAT matters most, and not the gear ! I this days give a analogy with wines, cars, cameras (photography) on a similar take : I thoroughly enjoy my amazing Merlots, which are far far cheaper than anything closer to Ch Petrus, and same for my car and cameras, having realized that the goose chaise for the best / or better gear, is a condition which should be studied formally in Psychology or Psychiatry for what it is - a total obsession of HOW it sounds, not WHAT is playing .. Thank you!
Wow. To me, and just my opinion, some of what this is rather nasty and untrue. For instance: You defines the suffix "-phile" as an unhealthy obsession with something and use pedophile as a reference, as if equating audiophiles with pedophiles. That just really struck me as mean-spririted, insulting and wrong. "-phile" much more commonly just means having an affection, love or enthusiasm for something. You could have used bibliophile, cinephile, Francophile, oenophile, or any other number of words that just refer to an enthusiast or hobbyist. Or the word "philosophy," from the same Greek root. As for all audiophiles just being in it because of an unhealthy obsession with equipment and not caring about the music, bullshit. Sure, there are those audiophiles (we probably all know someone), but my guess is most of us got into this hobby first because we love music and maybe electronics, and got hooked on the idea that we could make the music we loved sound better. You refer to most audio writers/reviewers as having to sustain their careers by catering to the big amp/big speaker crowd and say most of them have no other skills and are "unemployable." That's another incorrect and mean-spirited statement, since with the exception perhaps of the principle editors like Harley and Austin, most reviewers that I know do it as a sideline and have other careers, are retired, or are independently wealthy. Herb Reichert is an artist; Roger van Bakel is a professional photography; Michael Trei does turntable setups; Ken Micaleff is a respected writer for a number of non-audio publications; Anthony Cordesman was a well-known military and defense analyst - and the list goes on. You're certainly right that your products are not the norm, but there are other makers of high efficiency speakers, horn speakers, out-of-the box tables, etc., and many of those products get press. And you've gotten favorable press as well: Stereophile did a spread on the company a few years ago, and TAS did a very favorable review of his turntable. Why so bitter?
Well said. This Jonathan guy comes across as another arrogant, self-exalted "truth-telling rebel." Generally guys like him get a couple of things right and a lot of things wrong, but speak in sweeping generalities and with great conviction as they warn you of everyone else, as they sell something of their own, in this case more high-end products. The world needs more nuance, but no one should expect it from this type of partisan speaker.
Grand Overgeneralization. People are into audio for various resons; not mainly prestige usually, and each person is a unique individual with their own reasons why they're an audiophile. Who would they show off to anyway? Your average other person doesn't care anything about audio or high end sound quality. Most audiophiles probably don't even have any audiophile friends friends.locally. This doesn't make sense... If you tell someone you have a new Mercedes, they migt be impressed. If you tell someone you have a new PS Audio, they'd say "A What?" It could be that the decline of high end audio, ( if there is one), could simply be due to people's maturity. At some point, feeling immature and silly giving sound quality such grand over importance. Many get off the audio upgrading treadmill for the same reason that many guys stop weightlifting after high school. What made them feel superior once, to be able to lift more weight than the others, with more maturity just then seems silly. And it's a LOT OF WORK. High end audio ia a LOT OF MONEY!
In my case, words like music lover and audiophile define my perspective of the listening experience, because I do like to have the best possible equipment to listen to all my big collection of music (that increases every week). One of the first things I do after coming home from work is listening to an album, start to finish, because I truly love and cherish this amazing journey. Unfortunately, Jonathan, like you've mentioned, the majority of High-End brands still think that low efficent speakers and huge powerfull amps are the way to go, but are simply wrong. Really good efficient speakers and really good low power tube amps are expensive to make, but in the audio industry, there aren't many brands that are capable to acomplish the goal of reproducing the recorded event. Still, fortunately, there are some truly masterful artisans/small brands (a know a few) that built audio equipment that can achieve a remarkable approximation of the feeling of "beeing there".
OK. I’m a 70 year young man who remembers the 70’s stereo wars. When we got out of high school the first things we had to have was a fast car and a good stereo system, because we needed good equipment to listen to some of the best music ever made in the 60’s and 70’s. Seems the music dropped off when the good systems declined.
I'm 75. During the 70s, when I still lived at home, I was among a small group of us in the neighborhood into high end audio. Part of it was our love of music (it starts there), but part of it was also a male ego thing. The competition to have the best hifi system was subtle but it was there. The audio habit is overwhelmingly male. Women now compete in sports like wrestling and weightlifting, but the hifi hobby still remains mostly an all male club. Women like music as much as men, but most of them don't care that much about the gear. It's refreshing to see the few women who do.
The mass market sales are going to dominate any industry. What we have in audio is a case of that fact. Most people live in relatively small houses or apartments and do not have space for the big old style speakers, nor 5ft tall modern high end speakers or racks of equipment. So we get offered small stuff in a million variations built to various price points. I think what Jonathan has done with OMA is fantastic, but, given the equation of property prices to salaries, I cannot see many having the opportunity to have truly great sound in their homes. When thinking about equipment, from the past, I don’t think the majority of people had the great sounding classic equipment. I have my grandparents radio, built in 1951 and it sounds glorious in a plummy voiced old style BBC fashion, but it lacks resolution and dynamics. It has strange tubes and is only a ported speaker because the back of the radio has ventilation holes! In the ‘90’s I had a working Garrard 401 and a pre-owned LP12 from about 1987. The Garrard was much better; bigger sound, more dynamic, more natural timbres, in fact just more life like, so in many ways better, and if it sounded bit more coloured I did not care.
This rant comes across as more than a bit disingenuous. Many vintage speakers have serious design flaws (resonances, directivity issues, low quality crossover components and cables), and Stereophile gave your Fleetwood speakers and your $360,000 turntable very positive reviews. So, who got you to where you are now and why are you whining?
I really enjoyed this video. My favourite amplifier I own is a Pioneer sa 6200 the top of the line in 1973, 15watts per channel, but man, the sound is so good matched with a pair of wharfedale rosedales. The build quality on the SA 6200 is great. The only week I've done after it was serviced and rebuilt/recapped was to use a pair of 10db rca attenuators on the power amp input, just increase the signal to noise ratio. Rosedale speakers are 95db sensitivity, the SA 6200 drives them effortlessly. I really enjoy your channel, and salivate over the oma products. ...and I totally agree with your thoughts on the state of high end gear and enjoyed your previous videos on listening. And audio technica carts so good,I've found they sound their best with a capatence load of 100uf.
I have what I would call a mid-range system. I probably have a couple k in it, maybe. Decent amp, good speakers, and the source is my laptop. CDs ripped to FLAC. I have 67 year old ears. I enjoy listening to classic rock music. It is what I grew up on. An old boss of mine way back said it takes 90% of ones' effort to squeeze out the last 10% of anything. And, he said the company was not going to pay for that last 10% or so. Made sense to me. The type of music I listen to and enjoy really does not require an over-the-top crazy expensive system to play it on. At some point I think you are just throwing money away and not getting very much back in return. My system is good enough for me to tell content that mastered really well from content that is not. We are talking rock music here... After that, that is my cutoff. -- I do think you have many good points... seems to some it is more of a religion.
I love that you discuss the fact that the -phile suffix indicates something pathological. I think that's true but I wouldn't have jumped directly to your example. Realistically I think it's more akin to trainwatchers, which is more of an autistic trait. It's harmless but it's clearly not about the people being transported that makes them trainwatchers (it's more about the equipment), and so similarly, audiophiles are not about the music as much but indeed more about the equipment - the ways and means of music reproduction. I'm no longer an audiophile since I realized people tend to get way too hung up on cables, amplifiers, and weird stuff like cable supports and AC filters. Now I love my $40 pair of home built wideband speakers that don't do bass well and they don't do treble well. But they are zero baffle point sources and the stereo imaging is out of this world.
Watching his videos for a while now, and I regard him one of the rare people in the industry who knows what he is talking about and has the laid back attitude to be able to talk honestly about it. After all, he is the one who sold one of his turntables to Michael Fremer who audited a crappy plastic Crossley turntable and be able to pull some good feedback out of his hat, indicating exactly how those magazines are making money, as he said in this video. I also agree that this industry depends on one, the imperfections of the human hearing, two, the imperfections of the human psychology, as in, people can spend high amounts of money to equipment which almost stopped evolving after the late 80’s or early 90’s, right after the THD wars of large solid state amplifiers were over and home theaters started to become the new thing. People still paying crazy amounts of money to 99cent synchronous AC motors which were invented in the late 1890’s driving a colossal mass with a rubber belt which changes tension even under normal atmospheric conditions. Maybe this is the exact reason why the ‘vintage’ equipment is still being highly regarded, as they can match or even outperform much of the current new equipment in the market today. Most highly regarded vintage equipment has stood the test of time and they are not just evaluated by the reviewers but also by the people who owned them and used them under different settings. As for a dependable source, sorry but I don’t believe such a thing exists. Don’t know why people in the industry behave like a reference sound quality exists, and ask questions which equipment sound better. If there were such a thing, it would have put forward years ago. But, as I have said, the industry depends on the imperfections of the human hearing driven ownership pride. However, everybody hears differently, all our ears and ear channels are different, giving each and every one of us a unique equalization of the sound. We calibrate ourselves by listening different instruments under different conditions, like hearing a violin in an auditorium, in a room orchestra or from your friend 2 feet away. You develop your own reference, the same way you learn to call a color “Red” when you see the same shade. You develop your own taste and you look for that in the system you have. Nobody can tell you that you should like green and wear a green t-shirt on Mondays, because having advice on which equipment to buy is the same as asking someone which color to pick as your favorite color.
@oturgator. There are three areas in practice. Hifi/high end Pa- sound production Studio sound production. The last of these is the way to where it all starts. Genelec is like a sky sound system, of course after a well-measured room measurement mic calibration (it is included in the Genelec SAM series), of course your room must have at least a little acoustics on your walls so that it doesn't echo like your bathroom. As has been seen and heard in many expensive hifi sets on TH-cam videos. Most people don't understand the meaning of acoustic quality, just like an animal doesn't understand numbers.
@ I had the luck / chance / opportunity to work 2 years in 3 different recording studios. One of them had a 2” 24 channel Studer and a Soundcraft desk, one was using ADAT and they were digital only excluding the microphones and the last one was a Pro-Tools setup mainly doing voice-overs. I had the chance to listen many speakers there, Tannoy Monitor Gold 15s, JBL 4430s and 4425s, Yamaha NS-10s, ProAc Tablettes, Roger’s LS3/5s, the passive speakers that I have built as well as the active speakers like Klein & Hummel, ATC and Genelecs. Being close to the industry and being at the studio gave me a great insight. Yamaha NS-10 exaggerates any intervention that you have done on the console, it is brutally honest which is great for mixing but not for back listening, in such cases other speakers take over. No two studio monitor speakers sound the same, even if they are from the same manufacturer and within the similar price range. Take one speaker from one treated mixing room to another treated room and the whole balance changes, even with the same amplifier, same front end and the same cables. Tape has an addictive sound character and it is hard to shake off once you create an emotional attachment to it. It feels like you have excruciating detail with digital, then you feel like you are looking at the album cover of “Eve” from Alan Parsons Project, it is good from a distance. Genelecs are the evil of the whole bunch. It is like seeing a lady in heavy makeup and then she says, “you can call me anything you want”. Heavily equalized to slap the people who have a tunnel vision on the performance metrics, selling their soul to the devil. Listened with some engineers to 3-4 models of the Genelecs and none of us thought they were adequate for the job. I had friends in the JBL professional division who were giving me insight about what they are paying attention to while designing transducers and filters for the studio market. That is how I know some things are not what average people on the street thinks, hopes or dreams, when they see a “Studio Monitor” badge on speakers.
As a very active rep way back in the 70's, doing booth duty at both CES shows, ... it was VHS that killed Audio. When "good enough" video became the acceptable alternative to media, even crappy bootleg copies, "good enough" sound became acceptable as well. First just some solutions from video discs to various tape formats from the big names to complete separate sections of the convention. With porn becoming it's own industry, they would have a convention outside the CES. Suddenly Audio was becoming a smaller section. Bigger CRTs became flat panels and multimedia audio was replacing 2 channel.
You’ve made an insightful observation about the high-end audio industry, especially regarding the influence of reviews and the behaviors of buyers. It’s true that, for many, high-end audio equipment often seems to become more about prestige and aligning with popular opinions than actual sound quality. The sway of well-established “industry mavericks” and the elevated status of certain brands or products often drives purchasing decisions, sidelining the personal experience of how the system actually performs. Your point about audio reviews being influenced by monetary gain or favoritism is particularly significant. It underscores the importance of critical thinking and firsthand evaluation when making such investments. It’s a reminder that sound quality is deeply subjective, and chasing status or the “next big thing” can lead many away from enjoying the core purpose of audio: an authentic, personal listening experience. What do you think would help shift the focus back to sound quality? A greater emphasis on independent reviews, better access to unbiased dealer experiences, or something else?
the thing is that there are more 'audiophiles' out there than there are true music lovers. people dine in fine restaurants but many dont have any deep appreciation for the cuisine. same with high end wine drinkers, too much money and not enough brains. i own infamously power hungry speakers, magnepan lrs plus and added a new and better crossover, i have to power it with a powerful crown professional amp and frankly i love the music i hear. so different strokes i guess as i have also loved my tiny tube amps and high efficiency open baffle full range drivers. as one ages hopefully the music becomes the thing.
@CashGravel I think it's true most aren't interested in owning a home stereo, and I have an entirely different perspective on it than Jonathan here. More of a Marxist perspective. The focus of capitalism on producing commodities for exchange value rather than the use value leads to a prioritization of convenience, affordability, and portability over quality. The commodification of music itself alienates individuals from a deeper engagement with it. Music consumption becomes a background activity rather than a focused, immersive experience, reducing the perceived need for high quality reproduction. Where I do agree with Jonathan here is the culture of planned obsolescence and technological fetishism where the constant turnover of devices and marketing of new features shift attention from enduring, high quality audio equipment to disposable, Tech forward gadgets. But I think the biggest lead blanket to it all is the cultural hegemony, aka the ideological dominance of convenience over quality. The way that corporations propagate this really does shape consumer preferences. Marketing campaigns prioritize mobility and accessibility and frame them as more desirable than traditional notions of audiophile sound quality. Fundamentally if people cannot appreciate quality they do not understand quality and will not seek it out and this is a cultural phenomenon at its core.
Ive rewatched this video and my initial frustration and emotional reaction to Jonathans overweening smug, patronising attitude has subsided. He has a point. But his point is undermined by his complete failure to acknowledge that OMA is a big f'ing tree in that dark forest and his company feeds that consumption despite the fact that, I suspect, he would rather appear in the art and design sections of broadsheets than the hifi mags. Its the same old shit, mate. He says ots complex, then immediately denies that complexity by calling all audiophiles compulsive consumers, and all reviewers unemployable. Yes, there is an element of addiction in audiophiles, but that is only part of a complex story which will be different for everyone. Obsession and passion is not necessarily shallow and destructive. This is also true for the bragging rights argument. Many enthusiasts just want to discuss their systems, not brag about them. I suspect he projects his own attitudes a lot in this piece. One of the people who epitomises the attitudes he despises is Steve Huff. One of the products which raised Steve Huffs profile was a pair of Oswalds Mill speakers (Oh, the irony). He did a review where he decried the new gear merry go round and declared he had stepped off because the OMA speaker ŵere essentially perfect and he would keep them for the rest of his life. Im sure this helped sales a tad. It certainly helped Steve Huff. Then shock, horror ! Jonathan dumped in maybe $1500 worth of upgrades and announced a $7000 more expensive "Special Edition" (I guesstimate) and Steve Huff immediately sold his forever speakers, upgraded and shilled the new ones. This typifies the problem, Jonathan, and is why I cant take you seriously. As for the solution ? Simple. Be an adult. Understand your own impulses, and commercial motivations and sort the wheat from the chaff. Not always easy, but simple.
Never eat Japanese Fugu fish. Very dangerous. Six of my ex wives passed away from eating that fish. But they took good life insurance policies. Bless them. I have asked my current wife to get life insurance too and then I will take her to a Japanese restaurant to celebrate. She loves seafood.
I didn't know that Henry had access to Japanese delicacies in his time, maybe Portuguese traders brought it to your court? But why have you come back to tell us this?
I would love you to put more videos out elaborating on this topic. Just a great example from a Hifi show I attended to last week: Out of all the crazy priced 7 figure mega bucks systems only a single one conveyed true emotions (some sounded fine but not more, some even sounded aggressive and metallic ... how can that be for state of the art systems costing around 2mio euros?). The emotional one had a turntable spinning with even a lot of "none audiophile recordings" (in every sense) and I just straight didn't move for three hours since it was a delight. Then I had a chat with a guy known to make custom order high end tube amps tailored to your needs. I got intrigued, talked about what I am looking for (having in mind that a great well built amp should bring many years of joy) just for him to tell me that it will be fine for 2 years, after that I'll have to sell it off anyways since he will have a new thing out like usual which will "wipe the floor" with whatever I bought before. At this point I totally lost interest in what he has to offer ...
I found the part about Japan interesting, surprising and kind of sad. Stratification of income has driven this trend in great part. In stereo's first great wave, this new medium was simply available to more people because our middle class was so much larger as a percentage of the adult population. The makers of stereo gear gave us products that more of the population could afford. Macintosh and Marantz were for the wealthier people. Dynaco, Heathkit and others provided good sound for other people who wanted it. Remember all of those console stereos in most people's homes. That was not "audiophile" quality for the most part, but was good should overall. As such, the desire to hear well reproduced music was there for many people. Back to income stratification, those "high end" companies are filling a desire for people of those income levels, there are simply more of them as a percentage of the buying public than there were in the past. To me, a middle class earner, your products definitely are in the aspirational catagory.
Well said. Acquiring expensive audio gear is done for status and bolstering one's ego. Those who acquire hi-end audio, often buy and listen to music that is accepted by others who also acquire hi-end audio. This lack of individualism and inbreeding of musical taste causes a dissatisfaction which is appeased by focusing on attributes of the audio gear itself.
Acquiring certain opinions seems to also be done for bolstering one's ego, especially when they're based on ignorance. How can you generalize like this? Due to audio shows or reviews you've heard about? You equate what's typically in actual audiophiles' musical collections to the stuff trotted out in the audiophile public square because you don't know what you don't know. Case in point: Tapia de Veer's Utopia soundtracks and the music of Headphonepeople sound amazing on a high-end system, but you're not likely to hear them played at shows or mentioned on audiophile sites. Nor Burundi Musiques Traditionnelles or anything by Ligeti or Schnittke, or a recording like Nuevo (Kronos Quartet), or the Dead in Montana in '74.
@@maxhirsch7035 what ignorance? Do you know everything I know? Have you experienced everything I have? If not, then your assessment of my comment is based on your own ignorance.
Sounds like you got out of bed on the wrong side after your trip to Japan! Depressed? Angry at the world as we slide off into oblivion? I can understand that. But unfortunately you're part of the system. Who buys your beautiful and expensive equipment? Graduates of the high-end audio treadmill? Doctors and lawyers? The 1%? Are they buying because they love music, or because they want to impress their old friends ( who don't know any better;-) For me, being an music/audio-phile means setting aside time every day in my life to sit down and appreciate good recorded music, reproduced well. If it ever was a status symbol, those days are over. I only have one friend who kind of gets it. It's fun to spend an evening together appreciating some good tunes. But wait, there is an active audio community still. The grassroots budget audio folk. The real service to this hobby are those who make high quality products accessible to the 99% This diatribe hinted at that. It is perfectly possible to build a decent system for less than 5K. No need to constantly upgrade. You need an audio system to access recorded music of course. But who needs records? I recently set up a lady friend with a Bluesound streamer/amp, speaker cables & pair of Wharfdale floor standing speakers from crutchfield. All she needed in addition was a Qobuz subscription and she has access to the world of MUSIC in her home! Why do we try to make the process prohibitively complex and unreasonably expensive?? For you Johnathan I recommended going back to bed. Get up tomorrow and listen to Beethoven's piano concerto and contemplate that new musicians & music lovers are born every day. Wake up. Music isn't dying. Water the seeds! Now, tell us how 🎵🎶😉🎶🎵
I agree entirely, yet upgrade all the time. Generally second hand, ex dem, vintage. And often funded, at least partially, by selling something else. But thats fine. Im an adult. I enjoy the gear as well as the music, and I do it with my eyes open, recognizing I am partly in thrall to the curves of a sexy vacuum tube. Also, in my present circumstances I can afford it, and the creditors wont be scrabbling at the door. Im no victim of marketing or predatory TH-camrs. Of course you know all this, Carlos, but I do feel the wider community need my wisdom and general Sagacity. Sagaciousness ?Sagacitoriousness ? Profunditariosityness.
@@jimfarrell4635 Indeed friend. I know you keep a reference system and still love to play with and fix up older classic gear. I also run several systems. All valve, hybrid and all SS. Box speakers, panels etc. All have their "thing" in music presentation. I like to have options. What's wrong with loving the gear and music? It's a guy thing;-)
Jonathan, you make some insightful observations including how the industry pushes so called "state of the art " technology, frequently at the expense of genuine high quality sound and deeper enjoyment of music. It's also curious that for many, the word audiophile has devolved to imply a kind of pathology, especially considering "phile" comes from the Greek word "philos" meaning loving or fondness. For certain,there are some audiophiles that obsess over the equipment more than the music. Plenty fall into that camp. There are also plenty of true audiophiles that love and obsess over music far more than the equipment they listen through.
I don't really care for "high-end" audio as long as I can get high quality audio. Luckily Purifi, Genelec, Neumann etc have me covered. They have the R&D/industrial skills and equipment to reliably deliver at a sensible price. Also, it would have helped to check the etymology of the suffix -phile before pressing REC. I really dig the steampunk vibe of these OMA systems though. They are beautiful works of art.
I have a Sam Genelec multi-channel set, hifi/movie/game and that's how it is, the whole high end dream is a kind of betrayal towards people, which unfortunately many 100 thousand men and women follow like their lost tail that can't be found. The high end road is often like reaching for madness.
Please include your own newly experienced music (or that which you are 'revisiting') as that is why I generally follow audio-centric channels which are not totally focused on the 'hobby'. ps The US military has a great term for those of their number who are obsessed by the equipment: 'gear-queer' - which I try to keep in mind as well as the question one can always throw into a hifi conversation: 'And what about 'room treatment?'
I have to grin. On several levels. My investment in records and cds vastly, ask my wife……exceeds my gear purchases over the years. The educated read, and listen, and read and read. And at the end of the day your statement that nothing is that much better than it was 50 years ago is true. Keeping up with the Jones mentality is the problem, because as you pointed out, having a good stereo is not in vogue these days. And when a basic pickup truck starts at 50K well, . And to honest Jonathan, if I’d started saving years ago I couldn’t afford your turntables😊 I’ve owned the same amp for over 20 years now, same brand of tube preamp for same. Phono cartridges and playing with speaker crossovers are my weakness. Must be tough being in your price bracket and still getting no respect. I wish you luck.
So basicslly what you are saying is that there is no progress been made jn technology and old gear is just as good and you are wondering why you are left behind as a Company 😂
Japan is sure a cool place to visit for vinyl. I lived over there for a year. Tons of options to buy vinyl there. The Japanese are for the most part much more cultured than most in the US. They are much more in tune with how music sounds, their knowledge of jazz and classical is usually excellent to superb. The items I would add to your original comments on Japan are they did press the best sounding vinyl, The quietest vinyl, experimented with vinyl formulations, experimented with flat profile vinyl (as seen in some of the Toshiba - EMI DOR and DAM releases, the Blue Note BLP flat profile releases), cut many titles at 45 RPM. King Records (who was originally trained by Decca UK back in the late 1950s to early 1960) went on to surprass Decca and experimented with groove spacing or pitch to arrive at the King laboratory series where they cut lacquers directly from tape with no EQ or compression which later evolved into the King Super Analogue series. would agree with you comments on many in the high end pushing super inefficient speakers requiring large amounts of power and current to produce this sterile non-musical sound all in the name of "accuracy". When a person puts on a favorite piece of music how long does some of this gear keep said person's rear end glued to the listening seat? For much of this gear its not very long. Boredom sets in pretty fast.
Jonno old son , your products are on the front page of hifi magazines , interesting contradiction #1 And #2 I can think of a few pro audio gurus who would laugh at your statement concerning public address sound. Any way keep up the amusing content , it’s fun . 🥁🙏🏼🐬
Greetings All - A full opine range here - so I'd start with ... listening... in a perfect world I would listen to an album side 5 nights a week - in reality I get maybe twice a week - if you don’t enjoy your system no matter how much or little is spent ... like owning a vacation home or an 70s RS Porsche you haven't experienced in a year or more ... excetional gear unused is... sad. Not every musical experience is a perfectly curated event - stumble into a pub or a street musician sounding better than your last concert seat is always a moment ... one stops and ... listens
I'd be interested in seeing how many people Jonathan assembled eBay systems for.... Would make a great video to watch him actually build a budget system that outperforms his mega-buck OMA systems wouldn't it?
I offered my second and third system to my son and daughter now that they have jobs and moved into new homes. Neither wanted the amplifiers or loudspeakers and both opted for soundbars with a subwoofers. Kids are into Netflix and streaming. I can guarantee that my sons Yamaha and klipsch subwoofer sounds amazing via his PlayStation PS5. He can switch between a game, film and music instantly. So I would agree that the upper high end market will continue and the modest gear will disappear. As for magazines you have to pay journalists! You have to do advertising in their magazine. However, your understanding the use of a word with ‘Phile’ is rather poor and disturbing in my opinion. To like something and continue liking something is a good habit. However, I find your comparison to people with obsessive sexual activities with children very bad taste. Good luck and thanks for the journey.
Tone Controls . Or…brace yourself…a loudness button!!! Gasp! I said it. The elimination of tone controls on ultra high-end equipment speaks to the many problems with the audiophile industry. Firstly, lack of tone controls forces one to listen to what someone else has deemed proper. This subsequently leads to listening to equipment and not music. It would be interesting to compare timelines of the market decline and the elimination of tone controls. You want to get people interested again. Let them fiddle with options and enjoy “their” music they way they like it. Nah, instead paralyze them with fear that they are jeopardizing the integrity of the signal. Wanting to tweak the sound to your ears, room, speakers, and taste is blasphemy. They sold a lot of really nice sounding receivers back in the day, many from Japan. Incidentally they had tunable features. I feel that the market has forced consumers into a one sound fits all type model which is very off putting, especially when investing large sums.
Wow, this guy is full of himself. Might attract customers of his big buck systems who probably have the same mindset. I'm still curious what Fremer with his OMA K3 turntable thinks of this. "he has nothing else to do and is basically unemployable" lol
Hi Jonathan, I’d recommend people go to an audio or hifi club meeting where they will meet seriously clever DIY’ers and audio engineers as well as “Audiophiles” and make some new likeminded friends. Within such clubs you will hear custom hand built equipment that’s blind tested against the very best of what’s available in the mainstream stores and on the covers of Hi-end magazines where companies pay big money to have there products featured/advertised. I consider myself an audiophile and I do like gear as well as the music. I have been to the last two Sydney HiFi shows and didn’t hear much that came close to my own system that was in my affordable range. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been into a bricks and mortar hifi shop to purchase anything other than headphones in the last twenty years. Im in the minority that enjoys music above all, but only on exceptional equipment because the sound quality matters to me. Thanks for your video’s there always interesting.
While I see the point your trying to make. One can find no where that phile means anything other than" lover of " if you could point where the definition you spoke of exist . Regards
It is an extremely time consuming endeavor, trying to put together a high end system. I visited many stores and manufacturers for close to two years, listening to so many different systems. Many things I learned too late, i.e. after I bought my first high end system, which drained most of my resources. Looking for high efficient speakers is something I’d do now. There are not too many. Tobian Sound Systems is one of the few high end producers for highly efficient speakers in Europe that would also appeal to me from a visual point of view. I’d probably visit OMA if I were in the US. Also I’d look at tube amps, probably NAT Audio. Additionally, looking at companies that offer complete systems or almost complete systems is something I find attractive. Finding someone who is into music and high end gear for several decades who can be a mentor might be something I’d do if I were to start all over.
I have Boston Acoustics CS260 driven by an unkown Klegg av receiver and tidal streaming. I have heard a wide variety of very expensive gear and to my ears my system sounds better than most.
So precisely true and, as always with you, Jonathan, newer without tones of very subtil humour ! Thanks for this one in memory to our beloved Paul. W. K...
Consumers need to understand that Music is more than entertainment - it's a way to connect, meditate and even improve an individuals' health. Music is a Healer. How we got here, well it's really all about wanting it Now ! Want to improve this industry we ALL Love so much. Make it easy and drive home the importance of The Music. I so enjoy your content and hope your company is enjoying much success. There still is a Must for The Best and the wonderful conversations that go along with the joy of Music.
@@Daniel-hk3ru Yes, but... ! You, me, Jonathan and others, we all are knowing that no school, no course at all will never drive any uncurious people to become a curious skilled strong soul. Music lovers are sharing a Culture, one Art in between so great other ones alike Literature, Painting, Architecture and even the sciences and technologies behind the scenes.., something lots more soul and civilisation spirit connected than simple consumers dedicated products. The art of Edward C. Vente and Albert L. Thuras, of Paul W. Klipsch, of Jonathan Weiss, of Steve Deckert, of Leo Ayzenshtat and others is to love and serve the Music with true amazing well skilled products but not only. The point is that behind the business requirements, we all, as parts of the culture of sound reproduction community, are providing something relevant to the gift to the art of music, in respect to all the great composers whose gifted Us so much over the centuries and civilisations, all over the world. Business and gift as a sole and inseparable soul in some regards. Here is what makes Us strongly alive ;) Kind regards. "Il me semble qu’ils confondent but et moyen ceux qui s’effraient par trop de nos progrès techniques." Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Finding audio nirvana is a journey. It's that journey that should be enjoyed and not a means to an end. Although others may simply suffer from g.a.s. (gear acquisition syndrome), which no amount of gear will ever be satisfactory.
Interesting video. I have loved listening to music (over reading ugh) since I was about twelve, starting with a little transistor radio listening to am pop. During the next 50 years, I consumed all the formats (lp, cd, mp3). And having a good mid priced system was a way to complement the listening experience. But what is (and has been) happening to the industry is sad. I could go on and on about how bad today's music is, and how little people actually listen to music anymore (for various reasons). The rise of headphones has also hurt the traditional system. And you can't even go and listen to equipment because all of the stores are closing! But sticking to this concept of audiophilia, it's amazing to me how this industry is leading itself right into extinction. It has become an elitist niche hobby which has alienated a lot of people. All they want to do is sell really expensive boxes, recent examples being dac's and streamers. And cables which cost more than my car lol! I hope someone can figure out how to save this industry, because I still believe listening to music is good for the soul, and boy do we need that now more than ever.
I agree. As some other mentioned audiophiles means a friend of audio and not a music lover. So the most audiophiles are most audioequipmentphiles and some times music loves. I personally rarely buy equipment, after very careful thinking what a really want and stay with this equipment for long long time. That's why I love your designs , because they are for life time. Many times a upgrade some parts of this equipment, to but my bersonal signature to the sound. I have an tube amplifier OTL Graaf GM20 for 25 years that pairs my own made high sensitivity speakers, that I have for many years.
If OMA is not totally reflective of what's wrong with hi end today i dont know what is. Frankly ridiculous prices for what is pretty run of the mill equipment. Jonathan is becoming the Mikey of Hi End.
I don't have an awswer for the issues you bring up either but, will think about it more & hope you record any insights you discover. I do have some feedback I think you are a bit black & white about either someone enjoys music or is fixated on always looking for the latest best thing. I honestly am a bit of both but, if it wasn't for the music I love & what I am continuing to discover, via streaming (the most exciting part of the passion for me) I wouldn't be interested in the 'stuff' at all. Also, as a side note I do get the quality of everything your company makes & am very impressed with everything from the materials to the electronics, research & handcrafting. Unforunately, I am a person who has a budget that can't afford your products, not that I think you should make more affordable ones. So I exist in a situation where I have to try products that I can afford. My only option being trying them at home. I have with some components found exactly what pleases me, like speakers but, still continue to look for others. I do appreciate your comments & thoughts & will look forward to others.
I would compare audiophiles to motoring enthusiasts. If you are only interested in the music itself, you can also listen to it on the kitchen radio. If you want to get from place A to place B, you can get there quickly with a Tesla, but of course you can also get to your destination in style, in an old Porsche 911 or even a Ferrari. Often the journey is more important than the destination.
High end is often a scam to collect money from stupid people into better pockets. It's cold business. Sound quality characteristics should be measured by comparing competing products with the same speaker enclosure volumes, so that the comparison value ratio clarifies the listener in the same space and in the same places. Of course, with the same music too. High end products (speaker listening settings) do not represent anything but big talk, not covered by comparison ratings that should be in every test at high end fairs. The spirit of the game is ALWAYS measured BY COMPARISON METHODS EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT THAT HUMANS MAKE!! Otherwise, the development of products will be more inconsistent.
1. Audiophile isn't a dirty word, but boy did you make quite an asertion otherwise. Some collect cars, does that make them an automobilephile? 2. Ends it with the classic line of... "acknowleding there is a problem is the first step". 3. Johnathon, I am sure your company creates fine products. However, the video feels like you are just talking down to your audience...almost whining about the lack of a high end market is somehow a bad thing. Weird. 4. The demographics of the USA simply don't support the expansion of what you might call the "high end" equipment market any more. Your company can either play in the larger (low fi) market or not. That's your choice as a business person. Live with it. People spend their money like they want and capitalism isn't your problem to fix.
It's interesting, though, how people in America (at least in these kinds of forums) often savage audiophiles' interest in, desire for, and ownership of expensive gear, but not so much the lovers of cars, watches, handbags, shoes, modern art, sports gear, incredibly expensive meals out, and so on. I think it's simply that those items/purchases are regarded as more socially acceptable, or at least more comprehensible.
When will you produce audio equipment that is accessible to by listeners who have limited budgets. Speakers and turntables costing hundreds thousands of dollars, pounds or euros is for those who in a small demographic group who may or may-not even get involved in the music being played. So a-system costing less than $2000 can give the listener that sense or emotion and pleasure from what ever music they play. A properly setup system can pro-tray what has been recorded at whatever performance and in some case sound better. I have been to concerts of orchestral, jazz and rock where the sound quality and balance has reined a good performance by the musicians on stage. I do appreciate the qualities of high end audio and if could afford it would go there. But in the meantime for the majority of those of us who do get emotional involved in our listening what the audio industry produces is what we’ve got.
A quick google search shows The Absolute Sound (Fremer) covered OMA's K5 turntable at the Munich show last year. It takes a lot of hubris to trash audio magazines while holding up issues where OMA has a featured review of their 6-figure turntable on the cover.
I believe Fremer's turntable is an OMA Technics.
@@patfrederick7327 Nah... more like a comedian.
Fremer came into our Munich room with his video camera, there was nothing published in any of the magazines, neither The Absolute Sound, Stereophile, or their foreign equivalents.
@@stillaliveandwell5291 Dead Wrong! Fremer has the OMA K3 (Retail $360k) prototype. th-cam.com/video/8cKO9VdMAkg/w-d-xo.html
@@analogjames3429 You got the wrong guy, read my comment.
My generous take on this video is that running a high-end audio company must be incredibly stressful.
This.
You make home stereos that often cost more than most people's homes. OMA is clearly a member of the club you don't seem to approve of. Here's an idea. Why don't you make a $15k-$20k system like you could buy used on EBay for those of us who love the music more than the equipment?
That would be a great segment of you putting an amazing stereo with proper sound off eBay/using vintage pieces. While doing it educating us young people who never grew up with great sound.
Jonathan...with all due respect, you come across as jaded, arrogant, and perhaps a little bitter in this video. While I believe your heart is in the right place about music, I think you are only seeing what you want to see in the industry. PEOPLE STILL LOVE MUSIC! You seem angry that they don't want to spend exorbitant money to buy "high end" gear to enjoy music. Largely, you're right - and they don't have to anymore. The average "mid-fi" system sold at Best Buy today easily outperforms so-called "high-end" systems of the past in many measurable ways, including being half the cost. Technology has advanced as well as the understanding of what makes great sound. Passion still exists, but styles change over time. Car guys who passionately built hot rods in the '50's changed to muscle cars in the '60's, British sports cars in the 70's, German cars in the '80's, rice burners in the '90's, super cars in the 2000's...etc. You can't say that the passion for cars is dead because building hot rods in the back yard from old parts is not the mainstream choice anymore. Today, I see young guys with ALOT of passion about their music - and are willing to spend thousands on high-end headphones, DACs, streamers, and even flea-watt tube amps to enjoy it. Other people spend hundreds, even thousands to go see their favorite musicians in live concert. And the people that design and build and install and run these multi-million dollar live sound rigs DO care about great sound, and it is getting better every year. Is it the same as sitting quietly between 2 speakers at home and spinning vinyl? No, but it is about the passion and experience of music, and it is far better than the systems of the past. I have musician friends who will talk for HOURS about the SQ differences between microphones, or what different drumheads sound like on stage or in the studio. I would encourage you to see the passion for music where it IS, not where YOU think it should be. You'll find plenty of people out there who still care about great sound. Change with the times, or get left behind in obscurity and irrelevance.
wow, you think best buy gear betters a really great audio system .... could not disagree more .........
Sorry, there is no free lunch, a great $200.000 system will outperform anything at best buy
Just the thing that you can´t afford a super-great audio system ... deos that make it ok o trash guys who do these things for the love of music
I can´t afford the systems that Jonathan makes, but I really love and appreciates what he does ❤
Are you aware that the OMA K5 turntable took something like 5 years to develop and the only other products in the world that utilises the same motor as the K5 costs more than 100 million dollars...... do you think best buy do these things?
Still, I love that K5 spinning in the back and wanna audition one ......
@Harald-MacGerhard No, you didn't comprehend my point. I said many current "mid-fi" systems measurably outperform "hi-fi" systems OF THE PAST. Not current mega-buck hi-fi systems. You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
@@dmark2639 I would agree if you restrict your "past" systems to say the 80s and 90s. Will definitely disagree with it when it comes to the equipment that OMA is based on. The Western Electric and RCA horn systems when properly installed can give a much better musical experience than many current H-End products. Yes, horns are an acquired taste and if you don't enjoy that type of sound you will disagree with me and that's understandable. OMA is doing a great job of using the past to inform their design and sound to get the best of both worlds.
@@beauranheim8694most anyone in this thread cannot afford a system from them, let alone even hear it. All we have to go on are the aesthetics and branding of OMA products. If most everyone here was honest with ourselves, we’d admit that. The person you’re bickering with made a good point. It’s called marginal utility; you cannot it good faith be disappointed in the lack of interest in a system where design decisions were made to increase the likelihood of being featured in the Robb Report as aspirational porn instead of making the right engineering choices to maximize performance. For one, solid woods are used for aesthetics, not acoustics. And that’s evident by the fact that you can choose different wood species, all of which have different densities and structural composition. Don’t come back with that decision was made because the system was tuned to a specific hardwood because it made the best results.
Jonathan creates a video about the future of high end audio. A topic he then does not discuss.
Instead he craps on anyone stupid enough to be part of the market his company caters to.
He craps on the magazines that he ever so casually ensures you notice that has OMA on the cover.
Not sure what this was supposed to do other than waste 13.15 mins of my day.
lol I didn't make it to the end.
This seems a bit hypocritical. The guy creates and sells beautiful super high-end audio equipment, that the average music loving Joe could never afford. He is catering for the very few who can purchase such equipment, largely as that status symbol he’s rallying against here. Why else would one spend 10s of thousands on the equipment he and others make, who’s audio quality despite I assume being very good, is at diminishing returns, compared to much cheaper equipment that’ll still give you that enjoyment of the music, if that’s what important. He seems to be shooting himself in the foot.
If a person genuinely loves music, and that’s the main driving force, as he encourages. And not the quality of the bass, high end, soundstage etc…(audiophile parlance 😉) which doesn’t affect the “enjoyment” of music anyway. Is also subjective and differs from person to person. You can get that from a smartphone and headphones, why buy his stuff? Not that I wouldn’t if I could, it’s beautiful high quality product, so why not? But he seems to be making an argument against what he does for a living, and doesn’t seem to be clear about what he wants to get across here. Anyway, first world problems. I still admire what he and his company make.
Well-said. He wants you to thread a needle and presume that his fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only, or is primarily for real music lovers, whereas other fetishizable artisanal high-end gear is only for equipment lovers.
I dont entirely disagree with you David, but the "quality of the bass, soundstage etc." is what audiophilia is all about and does indeed affect the enjoyment of the music.
Thats not to say the music itself isnt the main thing, and can be enjoyed independantly of its reproduction. Sometimes a song on a transistor radio can have more emotional impact than the same song on a high end stereo.
If, for example you are sitting round a fire on a lonely beach in the Western Islands of Scotland, holding the hand of the love of your life, as opposed to sitting by yourself in a soundproof basement.
However, under most circumstances Id rather hear the song reproduced in the best way possible.
Edit: Dont forget. Smokey the bear says be careful building fires in the wilderness, and actually Ultimate Ears Bluetooth speakers are a better choice for beaches.
@ I agree too. A good quality recording (the most important aspect when it comes to sound quality, as you need a strong base to start with!) played through a very high-quality playback system can add to the enjoyment, but it’s not essential for that enjoyment, is what I’m saying. And when I said diminishing returns, I meant that I don’t believe say a $50,000 speaker setup is going to sound proportionately better than a $5,000 one. As for the differing sound qualities of amps, from experience that’s very subjective, if there at all. Most don’t have “golden” ears (if such a thing exists) and are going to struggle to tell the difference between the “sound” of different amps. But again, I appreciate the quality and or jewel like aspect if you like, of such gear.
It's a bit hypocritical? More than a bit. He might as well set up a mirror in front of himself rather than a camera. How sad.
Money does buy you better sound IF you choose wisely. Having said that, I was shocked by how much pleasure a $50 in-ear monitor gave me recently. My point is that you can get tremendous pleasure with not that many greenbacks. Can you get more pleasure with more greenbacks? If you choose wisely, then for sure. 😊
Filming your turntable for 14 minutes in silence would be a more interesting video
Phile just means "friend" in greek. add it to any word as a suffix. It just means that you like IT
Yep, didn't like the rhetorical conflation of pedo with audio ''philes' even if one has a down on Audiophiles which I understand all too well.
This holier than thou shtick that "my outrageously priced gear is okay because it's all about the music, while everyone else just wants to rip you off", gets pretty old pretty quick.
Jonathan whines that the magazines don't give him coverage, while holding up two that have his products on the cover.
I also know for a fact - I have seen the email - that Jonathan threatened to sue a magazine for a perceived slight, that didn't even mention him, his company, or its products by name. No wonder they are reluctant to give him coverage!
I love music. Specifically jazz. I’m also a veteran with some hearing issues. So, that being said, I only have to spend money for equipment that works foe ME. I can appreciate equipment like you produce, I really can, but it’s not in the realm of someone like me that will never be able to appreciate its full potential. Now I’m also 77 years young and have been buying equipment since I was in my early 20s. Audiophiles wouldn’t even give me the time of day because of my system, and that’s sad, but I don’t care because it WORKS FOR ME. Love you site. Keep up the good work.
Good for you. Do what works best for you. You're not alone; most everyone (let's say, the more mature demographic) who buys high end equipment has heavily compromised hearing. It's the elephant in the room. 'Get this uber DAC, get this diamond cantilever cartridge!', etc, etc. Buddy, your hearing is down probably 30dB at critical frequencies! Father Time, forever undefeated. As is human folly.
Im 47, Ive been into music and stereo since i was a teen. Ive always Loved both the Music and the Gear used to reproduce it. I have through the years owned many entry / budget amps and speakers. heck ive even run things off a home theater amp. My current set up revolves around the Rotel A 11 Tribute intergraded amp($600) and matching Cd Player ($300) and a pair of used Bowers and Wilkins bookshelf 685 s2 ($400) - Im all in right now for $1300 and i love it. I love the design aesthetics and the sound and it fits within my budget. I dont judge anyone for any of their gear. I just hope more people get into the hobby weather it is through headphones, bluetooth speakers or 2 channel systems. I dont care why or for what reason young kids today buy vinyl. im just glad its still available and thriving. Just my rant and 2 cents
"Ya get more mileage from a cheap pair of speakers..." Billy Joel had it right. Joy is not in things. That's hard, cause filling up the hole that modern life digs is frightening.
also - “The suffix "-phile" means "lover of" or "enthusiast of". It's often used in scientific and everyday terms, especially in biology and psychology” 😊
Hubble ( the astronomer )was a “ europhile” and even spoke with an English accent.
Thanks Professor! Now back to your beakers lol.
One of my pet theories is that listening pleasure started to go downhill when stereo was introduced. There’s something asocial and amusical about sitting still in the perfect sweet spot, exactly midway between two speakers, facing straight ahead and with closed eyes. Especially since the only bonus of doing so is the ability to point at the position of the different musicians in the recording. My motto must be back to Mono. Just imagine purchasing one great speaker instead of two less so (same price budget), and the same goes for amplification. Just imagine being able to listening to music on a great mono system with friends sitting together, rather than having to change seats with them regularly so everyone will get their fair share of some imaginary bliss of a pin point stereo focus. For me timbre, texture and dynamics is the key to musical enjoyment not stereo precision. Greetings from Denmark
Interesting, It would be fascinating to hear a good mono setup.
@@mgseeYou regularly hear good quality mono music....just attend your favorite rock star concert and you'll hear a mono feed.
@ True! 🙂
Get thee to thine Echo Dot, Sirrah ! You talk the damnedest Heresy and will find thyself condemned to have thine liver consumed by a Feral and Voracious Wiim streamer each day, till it regrows at sunset. Or SunSET as true Audiophiles do name it.
I havent watched the video yet but that bloke radiates SMUG like a KT150 radiates heat.
There's a lot of truth to your comment. We recently bought one floor model of B&O A9 for the living room. Both my wife and non-audiophile son loved the music it produced. It's not cheap, it's mono, but it's very simple to use (stream from any phones) and it produces great sound both at low and high volume. Oh, and it looks great in the corner of the room with a custom cover on.
You can get at equally as good sound as oma for a lot less money.
Thanks Captain Obvious!
This man makes some very interesting and good products. He should let his products stand for themselves and get over himself.
Im thinking about to set up a good stereo system in the physics room in my school. Maybe a regular, midday break music session could give some kids an idea, what a powerful experience listening is. The music could / should change through all genres, but should be analog or at least from a physical format. Something as an alternative to spending your break on your phone. Even our music teacher uses a wireless, portable speaker. Non of the parents got a decent stereo setup. Maybe i should try it. Greetings from Germany.
That was how I first was exposed to a well set up hifi. In school, in the music classroom, the system was Philips not too fancy but with speakers in the right place. We could bring our own lps. That impressed me for life. That was i 1976.
the best I know is listening to my records in the late night (low volume)
HiFi disappears and music appears
(I do have high sensitivity (DIY) speakers driven by low-power tube amp)
Great idea for an audio rug on your part. Congrats.
A central part if my upgraded audio system is powered by a little, low power Pathos Hybrid Tube Amp. It's a little mighty might..looks adorable, & sounds so sweet. One of my absolute fav end-gane audio pieces. 😮😅
I agree with most of you say. However, you also lift on the wave of “the more expensive, the better”. Pity…
lol OMA is so over the top expensive. Who knows if it’s
Any good
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708 it sounds absolutely fantastic 😊 coming from someone who heard a full oma system at their dumbo location. Totally natural sound, almost weird to experience it
@@chiefchunky-muffin4708I simply don’t know🤔… I heard the Fleetwood Deville but that is just a mediocre loudspeaker. Old-fashioned in a negative sense. Never heard their top of the line products.
The best thing about this is going through the comments looking for the small nuggets of true wisdom. What a beautiful time to be alive. Thanks for your perspective. About the boom comments, it's probably where they were standing in the room, bass can act like that.
I now understand possibly why my amazing “brick and mortar” audio dealer is no longer carrying this product line.
Hey John! I really enjoyed your video today. You mention how you can assemble a great sounding system for 5-10k within the time span of 6 weeks. For us who love to listen and celebrate music and cannot afford your gear. It would be an amazing service to your viewers to get a few tips or road map on how we can create a great sounding system to celebrate the thing we love. MUSIC.
Cheers,
Lino
Yes. I agree. It's all about the music. And there is no substitute for a live performance
Sorry Jonathan, but 'anyone' pursuing the ultimate audio experience, money no object, can be considered an audiophile!
As a musician, producer and music lover, I've been fortunate enough to have listened to some pretty esoteric systems, as well as pro studio set-ups. At the end of the day, your products are a niche market for the fanatical wealthy. Most musicians and music lovers I know, are discerning about fidelity to a point (some owning pretty respectable systems) - prefering to concentrate spend on their album collections.
Would they buy your artisan products if they could? Sure, but most can't afford it. Thankfully, it doesn't make them less passionate about music, or that they're not hearing what the artist/producer intended with 'lesser' set-ups.
After years of trial and errors, I finally found my music enjoyment with Shindo , Fleetwood Deville SQ and Rel.The synergy is so magical that the music finally engages me deeply.
Congrats@ I found my end-game av system with Qln Prestige Speakers & Modern McIntosh Amplifiers & a vintage oldey-but-goody OPPO Blu-ray/ Universal Player. 😂 It has a pleasant & robust sound.
@@davidstein9129Interesting! Are you streaming any music through the OPPO, or just using physical media?
Which rel sub did you land on?
@@supergiddy3 Rel S 510
Love the historical element of these videos, but this is “authenticity brokerage” at it’s finest: “Your life is empty, give me large sums of money so I can free you from the shackles of your stupidity/ignorance”
Authenticity Brokerage is now my phrase of the month. Thankyou !
@ you’re welcome
You're talking about listening to the system through the music rather than the other way around. Admittedly, I've put on a CD or vinyl record because of the way it sounds through my system but only if I enjoy the music in the first place. All audiophiles began their obsession because they love music. It starts there. If listening to music to you doesn't go beyond turning on the radio, then you could never become an audiophile. If it means a lot more, look out, because once you take that first step into audiophilia, if you're not careful and disciplined, you can be sucked into this vortex of buying and trading up your equipment in search of the holy grail. And it never ends until you get burned out or go broke.
I found the Genelec glm/sam/aes/ebu digital master series. There has been no return to any high end brand with passive speakers, because they already lag behind in sound quality characteristics. And quite hifi in use in the living room with an audio streamer.
Most of humanity walks with their eyes closed. Every single second, minute, month and year searching for the edge areas of passive hifi/high end in the swamp.
Active speakers (GENELEC) dsp room correction with measurements is the only way to your complete happiness.
@@oliivioljy9700 What the hell are you babbling about
I would be very interested in what kind of system you would put together on eBay.
I’m too broke to be an audiophile, based on the outrageous costs.
I do enjoy listening to music and vinyl
Biggest problem isn’t the equipment which, for the most part improves overtime, but the inability to find dealers where you can audition the equipment
Yup,i totally agree my friend
Very interested in your next video, and extending the conversation
I think, what you say is true for a minority. You can not pigeon hole everyone like this. I consider myself an audiophile just because i have passion. I doubt i have good ears. And audiophiles i know, go to live concerts. And like me, listen at home, looking for the emotion. I get tears of joy from my relatively cheap system. Audiophiles are generally well rounded people and all individual.
I always tell people that if your system doesn't give you chills,goose bumps or a tear to your eye then you are doing it wrong
I have a high-end audio system that gives me great emotional highs, but I also get it from listening to my cheap factory-issue stereo system in my Mazda 6. I guess, though, because I'm an "audiophile," I must just be listening to the equipment in my car, rather than the music; or is it the equipment in my house, rather than the listening to the music there? Because I like it in both places, but at home, that much more. But Jonathan of OMA has informed me that that's not true.
I think, we are all looking for the silence behind the Music…
Just don't pay your electric bill. 😂😂😂😂😂
I love your videos and highly respect your opinion expressed therein, but as a linguist, have to disagree with you on the use of the pre- and suffix “phil”, both in meaning and connotation, as it is used to express love, not the excess or pathology thereof. As a philanthropist (pun intended), not to mention philosophically speaking (more puns), one would be hard-pressed to come up with many more negative examples such as the one you used (the vile nature whereof is implied in the psychology of the subject matter itself rather than the terminology). The term “audiophile”, as far as I understand it, applies both to those who use a system to listen to music, as well as those you’re alluding to, who use music to listen to a system. I’m a music lover myself and have no problem referring to myself as an audiophile. My audiophile acquaintance covers the whole spectrum, so that there are those with whom I’ll discuss classical music primarily, and the fact alone that once in a blue moon they’ll inquire about hum caused by their phono stage doesn’t prove they’re in any way more interested in gear than music. Besides, as someone who started designing and building loudspeakers myself from the age of 14 or 15, out of disappointment of the inability of commercially available ones to convey the sound of a piano as I heard it on a regular basis when my sister practiced on our late grandmother’s Steinway, I recognize a fellow audiophile in you, someone who’s organized gatherings of likeminded “philes” and spent a lifetime pursuing the improvement of the sound of music. There’s a factor of intelligibility or lack thereof of e.g. speech in an opera, a play or even an audiobook where the two types of audiophiles meet, which happens to be where our ability to distinguish between instrument (makers), artists and interpretations of compositions becomes compromised. This fine line is where we all meet, as audiophiles, human beings who appreciate the sound of…
Well said.
Bravo!
Your final question/point reminded me of an old... joke(?).
Two tourists are driving round Ireland enjoying everything about the place, but one day, while out in a remote area driving down a country lane, they decide to go to Belfast.
Now, this comes from before the internet, so... so they drive around and are hopelessly lost and they pull over when they see what looks like a local walking down the lane.
"Excuse me, how do we get to Belfast?" one asks.
The local looks up the lane and then down the lane, thinks for a moment and then says "Well, I wouldn't start from here".
We are in a world where the average person gets music for free or as close to free as makes no difference.
That means it isn't considered as valuable. and if it isn't valuable why spend big on equipment when (and it's true) low to mid equipment is VERY cheap and we live in a culture of convenience. People now want everything delivered to them (on a platter) and as long as that happens, quality seems unimportant. Just look at the "Menu Log" adverts on the TV(at least here in Australia).
The conundrum of the modern world, deciding which things to have made and which to buy from Ikea. Which from a local produce store/roadside farm stall and which from the supermarket.
Which do you value and which just has to be good enough.
Myself... I have a valve pre-amp designed and built for me by Patrick Turner (Turner Audio, an Australian legend) over 20 years ago, a pair of monoblocks (I'm trying to not mentions brands you would/could have heard of) which came from a friend who bought and sold bankrupt stock and thought I might like them, and a pair of transmission line speakers from Adelaide Speakers (based surprisingly in Adelaide) which is a 2 man operation (one builds cabinets, the other does the components).
I think you can be (in industry terms) a very small boutique company, or you can be a huge worldwide corporation, but in between, you are going to have a hard time of things.
You hit the nail on the head at the end. People no longer dedicate time to the joy of relaxing with critical music listening. Just relaxing and loving music more than the background noise some use it as.
Why do you care?
Where has great sound gone? Forget the label High end audio. It is our duty to sit people down in their late teens to late 60's to listen to a huge vintage system and say "here is great sound, do you agree?" and leave it at that. That's what happened to me at 17 and 21,where I got to sit down and listen to great big audio systems in the late 70's and early 80's. It stuck with me and I was never really impressed by what was called "HIGH END AUDIO " afterwards. I built my vintage system 30 years later for less than $4000 and it is blowing people away!
There are also active speakers that are suitable for small spaces. Many of my friends here in Europe also use Neuman, Genelec, and other active speakers, because they have been the forerunners of room-filling technologies for several generations already. And indeed they are already used in the living room for music, movies, and even gaming.
Active speakers are like the Tesla electric car compared to the combustion engine cars that hifi high-end kind of represents.
Would love to post a review but I am employable.
Thanks for being brutally honest
Hi Jonathan, interesting remarks about Japan just as OJAS is gaining traction in the U.S. It's brave of you to criticise your own industry & the well heeled. I get perverse pleasure from finding budget nuggets that sound great. We are lucky to have Chi-Fi, Hi-Rez streaming & YT objective reviews (to sort the wheat from the chaff). I know the high-end is mostly a game of small sonic differences (large differences, something's awry) that are swamped by: music mastering, room, speaker & listener position effects. I no longer need to blast music to 'improve' the experience but I'm well aware from recent live orchestra concerts that they can get loud. I just don't feel the need to repeat it at home, for 4-5 hours on a daily basis. HTH, Cheers!
Jonathan, thank you for this ! I cannot even start telling you how much I agree with you, with your sentiment around Audiophiles, me being a one of the bunch until recently. I came to realize that music and also music discovery is WHAT matters most, and not the gear ! I this days give a analogy with wines, cars, cameras (photography) on a similar take : I thoroughly enjoy my amazing Merlots, which are far far cheaper than anything closer to Ch Petrus, and same for my car and cameras, having realized that the goose chaise for the best / or better gear, is a condition which should be studied formally in Psychology or Psychiatry for what it is - a total obsession of HOW it sounds, not WHAT is playing .. Thank you!
Bravo. well said.
I would love to find a amateur audio club that would value this video. Thank You for the light of truth
Wow. To me, and just my opinion, some of what this is rather nasty and untrue. For instance:
You defines the suffix "-phile" as an unhealthy obsession with something and use pedophile as a reference, as if equating audiophiles with pedophiles. That just really struck me as mean-spririted, insulting and wrong. "-phile" much more commonly just means having an affection, love or enthusiasm for something. You could have used bibliophile, cinephile, Francophile, oenophile, or any other number of words that just refer to an enthusiast or hobbyist. Or the word "philosophy," from the same Greek root.
As for all audiophiles just being in it because of an unhealthy obsession with equipment and not caring about the music, bullshit. Sure, there are those audiophiles (we probably all know someone), but my guess is most of us got into this hobby first because we love music and maybe electronics, and got hooked on the idea that we could make the music we loved sound better.
You refer to most audio writers/reviewers as having to sustain their careers by catering to the big amp/big speaker crowd and say most of them have no other skills and are "unemployable." That's another incorrect and mean-spirited statement, since with the exception perhaps of the principle editors like Harley and Austin, most reviewers that I know do it as a sideline and have other careers, are retired, or are independently wealthy. Herb Reichert is an artist; Roger van Bakel is a professional photography; Michael Trei does turntable setups; Ken Micaleff is a respected writer for a number of non-audio publications; Anthony Cordesman was a well-known military and defense analyst - and the list goes on.
You're certainly right that your products are not the norm, but there are other makers of high efficiency speakers, horn speakers, out-of-the box tables, etc., and many of those products get press. And you've gotten favorable press as well: Stereophile did a spread on the company a few years ago, and TAS did a very favorable review of his turntable.
Why so bitter?
Just to add to your list Robert Greene of TAS is a scientist professor at UCLA
Spot on!
Well said. This Jonathan guy comes across as another arrogant, self-exalted "truth-telling rebel." Generally guys like him get a couple of things right and a lot of things wrong, but speak in sweeping generalities and with great conviction as they warn you of everyone else, as they sell something of their own, in this case more high-end products. The world needs more nuance, but no one should expect it from this type of partisan speaker.
Indeed. I was going to reply to Weiss, but your comment makes that unnecessary.
The criticism you make here of the statements in the video is completely justified and aptly formulated. I have nothing to add to that.
Grand Overgeneralization. People are into audio for various resons; not mainly prestige usually, and each person is a unique individual with their own reasons why they're an audiophile. Who would they show off to anyway? Your average other person doesn't care anything about audio or high end sound quality. Most audiophiles probably don't even have any audiophile friends friends.locally. This doesn't make sense... If you tell someone you have a new Mercedes, they migt be impressed. If you tell someone you have a new PS Audio, they'd say "A What?" It could be that the decline of high end audio, ( if there is one), could simply be due to people's maturity. At some point, feeling immature and silly giving sound quality such grand over importance. Many get off the audio upgrading treadmill for the same reason that many guys stop weightlifting after high school. What made them feel superior once, to be able to lift more weight than the others, with more maturity just then seems silly. And it's a LOT OF WORK. High end audio ia a LOT OF MONEY!
In my case, words like music lover and audiophile define my perspective of the listening experience, because I do like to have the best possible equipment to listen to all my big collection of music (that increases every week). One of the first things I do after coming home from work is listening to an album, start to finish, because I truly love and cherish this amazing journey.
Unfortunately, Jonathan, like you've mentioned, the majority of High-End brands still think that low efficent speakers and huge powerfull amps are the way to go, but are simply wrong. Really good efficient speakers and really good low power tube amps are expensive to make, but in the audio industry, there aren't many brands that are capable to acomplish the goal of reproducing the recorded event.
Still, fortunately, there are some truly masterful artisans/small brands (a know a few) that built audio equipment that can achieve a remarkable approximation of the feeling of "beeing there".
Excellent point of view…
OK. I’m a 70 year young man who remembers the 70’s stereo wars. When we got out of high school the first things we had to have was a fast car and a good stereo system, because we needed good equipment to listen to some of the best music ever made in the 60’s and 70’s. Seems the music dropped off when the good systems declined.
I'm 75. During the 70s, when I still lived at home, I was among a small group of us in the neighborhood into high end audio. Part of it was our love of music (it starts there), but part of it was also a male ego thing. The competition to have the best hifi system was subtle but it was there. The audio habit is overwhelmingly male. Women now compete in sports like wrestling and weightlifting, but the hifi hobby still remains mostly an all male club. Women like music as much as men, but most of them don't care that much about the gear. It's refreshing to see the few women who do.
The mass market sales are going to dominate any industry. What we have in audio is a case of that fact. Most people live in relatively small houses or apartments and do not have space for the big old style speakers, nor 5ft tall modern high end speakers or racks of equipment. So we get offered small stuff in a million variations built to various price points. I think what Jonathan has done with OMA is fantastic, but, given the equation of property prices to salaries, I cannot see many having the opportunity to have truly great sound in their homes. When thinking about equipment, from the past, I don’t think the majority of people had the great sounding classic equipment. I have my grandparents radio, built in 1951 and it sounds glorious in a plummy voiced old style BBC fashion, but it lacks resolution and dynamics. It has strange tubes and is only a ported speaker because the back of the radio has ventilation holes! In the ‘90’s I had a working Garrard 401 and a pre-owned LP12 from about 1987. The Garrard was much better; bigger sound, more dynamic, more natural timbres, in fact just more life like, so in many ways better, and if it sounded bit more coloured I did not care.
This rant comes across as more than a bit disingenuous. Many vintage speakers have serious design flaws (resonances, directivity issues, low quality crossover components and cables), and Stereophile gave your Fleetwood speakers and your $360,000 turntable very positive reviews. So, who got you to where you are now and why are you whining?
I really enjoyed this video.
My favourite amplifier I own is a Pioneer sa 6200 the top of the line in 1973, 15watts per channel, but man, the sound is so good matched with a pair of wharfedale rosedales.
The build quality on the SA 6200 is great.
The only week I've done after it was serviced and rebuilt/recapped was to use a pair of 10db rca attenuators on the power amp input, just increase the signal to noise ratio.
Rosedale speakers are 95db sensitivity, the SA 6200 drives them effortlessly.
I really enjoy your channel, and salivate over the oma products.
...and I totally agree with your thoughts on the state of high end gear and enjoyed your previous videos on listening.
And audio technica carts so good,I've found they sound their best with a capatence load of 100uf.
I have what I would call a mid-range system. I probably have a couple k in it, maybe. Decent amp, good speakers, and the source is my laptop. CDs ripped to FLAC. I have 67 year old ears. I enjoy listening to classic rock music. It is what I grew up on. An old boss of mine way back said it takes 90% of ones' effort to squeeze out the last 10% of anything. And, he said the company was not going to pay for that last 10% or so. Made sense to me. The type of music I listen to and enjoy really does not require an over-the-top crazy expensive system to play it on. At some point I think you are just throwing money away and not getting very much back in return. My system is good enough for me to tell content that mastered really well from content that is not. We are talking rock music here... After that, that is my cutoff. -- I do think you have many good points... seems to some it is more of a religion.
I love that you discuss the fact that the -phile suffix indicates something pathological. I think that's true but I wouldn't have jumped directly to your example. Realistically I think it's more akin to trainwatchers, which is more of an autistic trait. It's harmless but it's clearly not about the people being transported that makes them trainwatchers (it's more about the equipment), and so similarly, audiophiles are not about the music as much but indeed more about the equipment - the ways and means of music reproduction.
I'm no longer an audiophile since I realized people tend to get way too hung up on cables, amplifiers, and weird stuff like cable supports and AC filters. Now I love my $40 pair of home built wideband speakers that don't do bass well and they don't do treble well. But they are zero baffle point sources and the stereo imaging is out of this world.
Watching his videos for a while now, and I regard him one of the rare people in the industry who knows what he is talking about and has the laid back attitude to be able to talk honestly about it. After all, he is the one who sold one of his turntables to Michael Fremer who audited a crappy plastic Crossley turntable and be able to pull some good feedback out of his hat, indicating exactly how those magazines are making money, as he said in this video.
I also agree that this industry depends on one, the imperfections of the human hearing, two, the imperfections of the human psychology, as in, people can spend high amounts of money to equipment which almost stopped evolving after the late 80’s or early 90’s, right after the THD wars of large solid state amplifiers were over and home theaters started to become the new thing. People still paying crazy amounts of money to 99cent synchronous AC motors which were invented in the late 1890’s driving a colossal mass with a rubber belt which changes tension even under normal atmospheric conditions. Maybe this is the exact reason why the ‘vintage’ equipment is still being highly regarded, as they can match or even outperform much of the current new equipment in the market today. Most highly regarded vintage equipment has stood the test of time and they are not just evaluated by the reviewers but also by the people who owned them and used them under different settings.
As for a dependable source, sorry but I don’t believe such a thing exists. Don’t know why people in the industry behave like a reference sound quality exists, and ask questions which equipment sound better. If there were such a thing, it would have put forward years ago. But, as I have said, the industry depends on the imperfections of the human hearing driven ownership pride. However, everybody hears differently, all our ears and ear channels are different, giving each and every one of us a unique equalization of the sound. We calibrate ourselves by listening different instruments under different conditions, like hearing a violin in an auditorium, in a room orchestra or from your friend 2 feet away. You develop your own reference, the same way you learn to call a color “Red” when you see the same shade. You develop your own taste and you look for that in the system you have. Nobody can tell you that you should like green and wear a green t-shirt on Mondays, because having advice on which equipment to buy is the same as asking someone which color to pick as your favorite color.
@oturgator. There are three areas in practice.
Hifi/high end
Pa- sound production
Studio sound production.
The last of these is the way to where it all starts.
Genelec is like a sky sound system, of course after a well-measured room measurement mic calibration (it is included in the Genelec SAM series), of course your room must have at least a little acoustics on your walls so that it doesn't echo like your bathroom. As has been seen and heard in many expensive hifi sets on TH-cam videos.
Most people don't understand the meaning of acoustic quality, just like an animal doesn't understand numbers.
@ I had the luck / chance / opportunity to work 2 years in 3 different recording studios. One of them had a 2” 24 channel Studer and a Soundcraft desk, one was using ADAT and they were digital only excluding the microphones and the last one was a Pro-Tools setup mainly doing voice-overs. I had the chance to listen many speakers there, Tannoy Monitor Gold 15s, JBL 4430s and 4425s, Yamaha NS-10s, ProAc Tablettes, Roger’s LS3/5s, the passive speakers that I have built as well as the active speakers like Klein & Hummel, ATC and Genelecs. Being close to the industry and being at the studio gave me a great insight.
Yamaha NS-10 exaggerates any intervention that you have done on the console, it is brutally honest which is great for mixing but not for back listening, in such cases other speakers take over. No two studio monitor speakers sound the same, even if they are from the same manufacturer and within the similar price range. Take one speaker from one treated mixing room to another treated room and the whole balance changes, even with the same amplifier, same front end and the same cables. Tape has an addictive sound character and it is hard to shake off once you create an emotional attachment to it. It feels like you have excruciating detail with digital, then you feel like you are looking at the album cover of “Eve” from Alan Parsons Project, it is good from a distance. Genelecs are the evil of the whole bunch. It is like seeing a lady in heavy makeup and then she says, “you can call me anything you want”. Heavily equalized to slap the people who have a tunnel vision on the performance metrics, selling their soul to the devil. Listened with some engineers to 3-4 models of the Genelecs and none of us thought they were adequate for the job.
I had friends in the JBL professional division who were giving me insight about what they are paying attention to while designing transducers and filters for the studio market. That is how I know some things are not what average people on the street thinks, hopes or dreams, when they see a “Studio Monitor” badge on speakers.
@@oturgator You are like a stone-hard Muslim who claims that a creature of imagination is real.
Funny how we use the word audiophile, and not the word musicphile.
As a very active rep way back in the 70's, doing booth duty at both CES shows, ... it was VHS that killed Audio. When "good enough" video became the acceptable alternative to media, even crappy bootleg copies, "good enough" sound became acceptable as well. First just some solutions from video discs to various tape formats from the big names to complete separate sections of the convention. With porn becoming it's own industry, they would have a convention outside the CES. Suddenly Audio was becoming a smaller section. Bigger CRTs became flat panels and multimedia audio was replacing 2 channel.
You’ve made an insightful observation about the high-end audio industry, especially regarding the influence of reviews and the behaviors of buyers. It’s true that, for many, high-end audio equipment often seems to become more about prestige and aligning with popular opinions than actual sound quality. The sway of well-established “industry mavericks” and the elevated status of certain brands or products often drives purchasing decisions, sidelining the personal experience of how the system actually performs.
Your point about audio reviews being influenced by monetary gain or favoritism is particularly significant. It underscores the importance of critical thinking and firsthand evaluation when making such investments. It’s a reminder that sound quality is deeply subjective, and chasing status or the “next big thing” can lead many away from enjoying the core purpose of audio: an authentic, personal listening experience.
What do you think would help shift the focus back to sound quality? A greater emphasis on independent reviews, better access to unbiased dealer experiences, or something else?
the thing is that there are more 'audiophiles' out there than there are true music lovers. people dine in fine restaurants but many dont have any deep appreciation for the cuisine. same with high end wine drinkers, too much money and not enough brains. i own infamously power hungry speakers, magnepan lrs plus and added a new and better crossover, i have to power it with a powerful crown professional amp and frankly i love the music i hear. so different strokes i guess as i have also loved my tiny tube amps and high efficiency open baffle full range drivers. as one ages hopefully the music becomes the thing.
There are way more music lovers out there.
@@supercompooper but most of them aren’t interested in owning a home stereo
@CashGravel I think it's true most aren't interested in owning a home stereo, and I have an entirely different perspective on it than Jonathan here. More of a Marxist perspective. The focus of capitalism on producing commodities for exchange value rather than the use value leads to a prioritization of convenience, affordability, and portability over quality. The commodification of music itself alienates individuals from a deeper engagement with it. Music consumption becomes a background activity rather than a focused, immersive experience, reducing the perceived need for high quality reproduction. Where I do agree with Jonathan here is the culture of planned obsolescence and technological fetishism where the constant turnover of devices and marketing of new features shift attention from enduring, high quality audio equipment to disposable, Tech forward gadgets. But I think the biggest lead blanket to it all is the cultural hegemony, aka the ideological dominance of convenience over quality. The way that corporations propagate this really does shape consumer preferences. Marketing campaigns prioritize mobility and accessibility and frame them as more desirable than traditional notions of audiophile sound quality. Fundamentally if people cannot appreciate quality they do not understand quality and will not seek it out and this is a cultural phenomenon at its core.
Why there is no user or review content on YT and web? Is anyone buying this stuff?
in audiophile words, what we need is: balance control ⚖
Ive rewatched this video and my initial frustration and emotional reaction to Jonathans overweening smug, patronising attitude has subsided.
He has a point. But his point is undermined by his complete failure to acknowledge that OMA is a big f'ing tree in that dark forest and his company feeds that consumption despite the fact that, I suspect, he would rather appear in the art and design sections of broadsheets than the hifi mags. Its the same old shit, mate.
He says ots complex, then immediately denies that complexity by calling all audiophiles compulsive consumers, and all reviewers unemployable.
Yes, there is an element of addiction in audiophiles, but that is only part of a complex story which will be different for everyone. Obsession and passion is not necessarily shallow and destructive. This is also true for the bragging rights argument. Many enthusiasts just want to discuss their systems, not brag about them. I suspect he projects his own attitudes a lot in this piece.
One of the people who epitomises the attitudes he despises is Steve Huff. One of the products which raised Steve Huffs profile was a pair of Oswalds Mill speakers (Oh, the irony). He did a review where he decried the new gear merry go round and declared he had stepped off because the OMA speaker ŵere essentially perfect and he would keep them for the rest of his life. Im sure this helped sales a tad. It certainly helped Steve Huff.
Then shock, horror ! Jonathan dumped in maybe $1500 worth of upgrades and announced a $7000 more expensive "Special Edition" (I guesstimate) and Steve Huff immediately sold his forever speakers, upgraded and shilled the new ones. This typifies the problem, Jonathan, and is why I cant take you seriously.
As for the solution ? Simple. Be an adult. Understand your own impulses, and commercial motivations and sort the wheat from the chaff. Not always easy, but simple.
Never eat Japanese Fugu fish. Very dangerous. Six of my ex wives passed away from eating that fish. But they took good life insurance policies. Bless them. I have asked my current wife to get life insurance too and then I will take her to a Japanese restaurant to celebrate. She loves seafood.
I didn't know that Henry had access to Japanese delicacies in his time, maybe Portuguese traders brought it to your court? But why have you come back to tell us this?
I would love you to put more videos out elaborating on this topic. Just a great example from a Hifi show I attended to last week: Out of all the crazy priced 7 figure mega bucks systems only a single one conveyed true emotions (some sounded fine but not more, some even sounded aggressive and metallic ... how can that be for state of the art systems costing around 2mio euros?). The emotional one had a turntable spinning with even a lot of "none audiophile recordings" (in every sense) and I just straight didn't move for three hours since it was a delight. Then I had a chat with a guy known to make custom order high end tube amps tailored to your needs. I got intrigued, talked about what I am looking for (having in mind that a great well built amp should bring many years of joy) just for him to tell me that it will be fine for 2 years, after that I'll have to sell it off anyways since he will have a new thing out like usual which will "wipe the floor" with whatever I bought before. At this point I totally lost interest in what he has to offer ...
I found the part about Japan interesting, surprising and kind of sad. Stratification of income has driven this trend in great part. In stereo's first great wave, this new medium was simply available to more people because our middle class was so much larger as a percentage of the adult population. The makers of stereo gear gave us products that more of the population could afford. Macintosh and Marantz were for the wealthier people. Dynaco, Heathkit and others provided good sound for other people who wanted it. Remember all of those console stereos in most people's homes. That was not "audiophile" quality for the most part, but was good should overall. As such, the desire to hear well reproduced music was there for many people.
Back to income stratification, those "high end" companies are filling a desire for people of those income levels, there are simply more of them as a percentage of the buying public than there were in the past.
To me, a middle class earner, your products definitely are in the aspirational catagory.
I could never afford any of your gear. However I loved the Audiophile analogy 🤛🏻
Well said. Acquiring expensive audio gear is done for status and bolstering one's ego. Those who acquire hi-end audio, often buy and listen to music that is accepted by others who also acquire hi-end audio. This lack of individualism and inbreeding of musical taste causes a dissatisfaction which is appeased by focusing on attributes of the audio gear itself.
Acquiring certain opinions seems to also be done for bolstering one's ego, especially when they're based on ignorance. How can you generalize like this? Due to audio shows or reviews you've heard about? You equate what's typically in actual audiophiles' musical collections to the stuff trotted out in the audiophile public square because you don't know what you don't know.
Case in point: Tapia de Veer's Utopia soundtracks and the music of Headphonepeople sound amazing on a high-end system, but you're not likely to hear them played at shows or mentioned on audiophile sites. Nor Burundi Musiques Traditionnelles or anything by Ligeti or Schnittke, or a recording like Nuevo (Kronos Quartet), or the Dead in Montana in '74.
@@maxhirsch7035 what ignorance? Do you know everything I know? Have you experienced everything I have? If not, then your assessment of my comment is based on your own ignorance.
Sounds like you got out of bed on the wrong side after your trip to Japan!
Depressed?
Angry at the world as we slide off into oblivion?
I can understand that.
But unfortunately you're part of the system.
Who buys your beautiful and expensive equipment?
Graduates of the high-end audio treadmill?
Doctors and lawyers?
The 1%?
Are they buying because they love music, or because they want to impress their old friends ( who don't know any better;-)
For me, being an music/audio-phile means setting aside time every day in my life to sit down and appreciate good recorded music, reproduced well.
If it ever was a status symbol, those days are over.
I only have one friend who kind of gets it. It's fun to spend an evening together appreciating some good tunes.
But wait, there is an active audio community still.
The grassroots budget audio folk. The real service to this hobby are those who make high quality products accessible to the 99%
This diatribe hinted at that.
It is perfectly possible to build a decent system for less than 5K.
No need to constantly upgrade.
You need an audio system to access recorded music of course.
But who needs records?
I recently set up a lady friend with a Bluesound streamer/amp, speaker cables & pair of Wharfdale floor standing speakers from crutchfield.
All she needed in addition was a Qobuz subscription and she has access to the world of MUSIC in her home!
Why do we try to make the process prohibitively complex and unreasonably expensive??
For you Johnathan I recommended going back to bed. Get up tomorrow and listen to Beethoven's piano concerto and contemplate that new musicians & music lovers are born every day.
Wake up.
Music isn't dying.
Water the seeds!
Now, tell us how
🎵🎶😉🎶🎵
I agree entirely, yet upgrade all the time. Generally second hand, ex dem, vintage. And often funded, at least partially, by selling something else. But thats fine. Im an adult. I enjoy the gear as well as the music, and I do it with my eyes open, recognizing I am partly in thrall to the curves of a sexy vacuum tube.
Also, in my present circumstances I can afford it, and the creditors wont be scrabbling at the door. Im no victim of marketing or predatory TH-camrs.
Of course you know all this, Carlos, but I do feel the wider community need my wisdom and general Sagacity. Sagaciousness ?Sagacitoriousness ?
Profunditariosityness.
@@jimfarrell4635
Indeed friend.
I know you keep a reference system and still love to play with and fix up older classic gear.
I also run several systems. All valve, hybrid and all SS. Box speakers, panels etc.
All have their "thing" in music presentation.
I like to have options.
What's wrong with loving the gear and music?
It's a guy thing;-)
I like your thoughts on audio
Jonathan, you make some insightful observations including how the industry pushes so called "state of the art " technology, frequently at the expense of genuine high quality sound and deeper enjoyment of music. It's also curious that for many, the word audiophile has devolved to imply a kind of pathology, especially considering "phile" comes from the Greek word "philos" meaning loving or fondness. For certain,there are some audiophiles that obsess over the equipment more than the music. Plenty fall into that camp. There are also plenty of true audiophiles that love and obsess over music far more than the equipment they listen through.
I dig your humility.😂
I don't really care for "high-end" audio as long as I can get high quality audio. Luckily Purifi, Genelec, Neumann etc have me covered. They have the R&D/industrial skills and equipment to reliably deliver at a sensible price. Also, it would have helped to check the etymology of the suffix -phile before pressing REC. I really dig the steampunk vibe of these OMA systems though. They are beautiful works of art.
I have a Sam Genelec multi-channel set, hifi/movie/game and that's how it is, the whole high end dream is a kind of betrayal towards people, which unfortunately many 100 thousand men and women follow like their lost tail that can't be found.
The high end road is often like reaching for madness.
Please include your own newly experienced music (or that which you are 'revisiting') as that is why I generally follow audio-centric channels which are not totally focused on the 'hobby'. ps The US military has a great term for those of their number who are obsessed by the equipment: 'gear-queer' - which I try to keep in mind as well as the question one can always throw into a hifi conversation: 'And what about 'room treatment?'
I have to grin. On several levels. My investment in records and cds vastly, ask my wife……exceeds my gear purchases over the years. The educated read, and listen, and read and read. And at the end of the day your statement that nothing is that much better than it was 50 years ago is true. Keeping up with the Jones mentality is the problem, because as you pointed out, having a good stereo is not in vogue these days. And when a basic pickup truck starts at 50K well, . And to honest Jonathan, if I’d started saving years ago I couldn’t afford your turntables😊 I’ve owned the same amp for over 20 years now, same brand of tube preamp for same. Phono cartridges and playing with speaker crossovers are my weakness. Must be tough being in your price bracket and still getting no respect. I wish you luck.
So basicslly what you are saying is that there is no progress been made jn technology and old gear is just as good and you are wondering why you are left behind as a Company 😂
Thx for explaining life and evolution.
Japan is sure a cool place to visit for vinyl. I lived over there for a year. Tons of options to buy vinyl there. The Japanese are for the most part much more cultured than most in the US. They are much more in tune with how music sounds, their knowledge of jazz and classical is usually excellent to superb. The items I would add to your original comments on Japan are they did press the best sounding vinyl, The quietest vinyl, experimented with vinyl formulations, experimented with flat profile vinyl (as seen in some of the Toshiba - EMI DOR and DAM releases, the Blue Note BLP flat profile releases), cut many titles at 45 RPM. King Records (who was originally trained by Decca UK back in the late 1950s to early 1960) went on to surprass Decca and experimented with groove spacing or pitch to arrive at the King laboratory series where they cut lacquers directly from tape with no EQ or compression which later evolved into the King Super Analogue series. would agree with you comments on many in the high end pushing super inefficient speakers requiring large amounts of power and current to produce this sterile non-musical sound all in the name of "accuracy". When a person puts on a favorite piece of music how long does some of this gear keep said person's rear end glued to the listening seat? For much of this gear its not very long. Boredom sets in pretty fast.
Jonno old son , your products are on the front page of hifi magazines , interesting contradiction #1
And #2 I can think of a few pro audio gurus who would laugh at your statement concerning public address sound.
Any way keep up the amusing content , it’s fun . 🥁🙏🏼🐬
Greetings All - A full opine range here - so I'd start with ... listening... in a perfect world I would listen to an album side 5 nights a week - in reality I get maybe twice a week - if you don’t enjoy your system no matter how much or little is spent ... like owning a vacation home or an 70s RS Porsche you haven't experienced in a year or more ... excetional gear unused is... sad. Not every musical experience is a perfectly curated event - stumble into a pub or a street musician sounding better than your last concert seat is always a moment ... one stops and ... listens
Bello/Magnifico.🙏✡️✡️✡️✡️✡️✡️👑
Looking forward to know how many people come to you and ask you to show them the $5 to $10k system that beats the "audiophile" systems.
I'd be interested in seeing how many people Jonathan assembled eBay systems for.... Would make a great video to watch him actually build a budget system that outperforms his mega-buck OMA systems wouldn't it?
I offered my second and third system to my son and daughter now that they have jobs and moved into new homes. Neither wanted the amplifiers or loudspeakers and both opted for soundbars with a subwoofers. Kids are into Netflix and streaming. I can guarantee that my sons Yamaha and klipsch subwoofer sounds amazing via his PlayStation PS5. He can switch between a game, film and music instantly. So I would agree that the upper high end market will continue and the modest gear will disappear. As for magazines you have to pay journalists! You have to do advertising in their magazine. However, your understanding the use of a word with ‘Phile’ is rather poor and disturbing in my opinion. To like something and continue liking something is a good habit. However, I find your comparison to people with obsessive sexual activities with children very bad taste. Good luck and thanks for the journey.
Tone Controls . Or…brace yourself…a loudness button!!! Gasp! I said it. The elimination of tone controls on ultra high-end equipment speaks to the many problems with the audiophile industry. Firstly, lack of tone controls forces one to listen to what someone else has deemed proper. This subsequently leads to listening to equipment and not music.
It would be interesting to compare timelines of the market decline and the elimination of tone controls.
You want to get people interested again. Let them fiddle with options and enjoy “their” music they way they like it. Nah, instead paralyze them with fear that they are jeopardizing the integrity of the signal. Wanting to tweak the sound to your ears, room, speakers, and taste is blasphemy.
They sold a lot of really nice sounding receivers back in the day, many from Japan. Incidentally they had tunable features.
I feel that the market has forced consumers into a one sound fits all type model which is very off putting, especially when investing large sums.
Wow, this guy is full of himself. Might attract customers of his big buck systems who probably have the same mindset. I'm still curious what Fremer with his OMA K3 turntable thinks of this. "he has nothing else to do and is basically unemployable" lol
I think that your comments hit the nail on the the head.
Hi Jonathan, I’d recommend people go to an audio or hifi club meeting where they will meet seriously clever DIY’ers and audio engineers as well as “Audiophiles” and make some new likeminded friends. Within such clubs you will hear custom hand built equipment that’s blind tested against the very best of what’s available in the mainstream stores and on the covers of Hi-end magazines where companies pay big money to have there products featured/advertised. I consider myself an audiophile and I do like gear as well as the music. I have been to the last two Sydney HiFi shows and didn’t hear much that came close to my own system that was in my affordable range. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been into a bricks and mortar hifi shop to purchase anything other than headphones in the last twenty years. Im in the minority that enjoys music above all, but only on exceptional equipment because the sound quality matters to me. Thanks for your video’s there always interesting.
While I see the point your trying to make. One can find no where that phile means anything other than" lover of " if you could point where the definition you spoke of exist . Regards
It is an extremely time consuming endeavor, trying to put together a high end system. I visited many stores and manufacturers for close to two years, listening to so many different systems.
Many things I learned too late, i.e. after I bought my first high end system, which drained most of my resources.
Looking for high efficient speakers is something I’d do now. There are not too many. Tobian Sound Systems is one of the few high end producers for highly efficient speakers in Europe that would also appeal to me from a visual point of view. I’d probably visit OMA if I were in the US.
Also I’d look at tube amps, probably NAT Audio.
Additionally, looking at companies that offer complete systems or almost complete systems is something I find attractive.
Finding someone who is into music and high end gear for several decades who can be a mentor might be something I’d do if I were to start all over.
I have Boston Acoustics CS260 driven by an unkown Klegg av receiver and tidal streaming. I have heard a wide variety of very expensive gear and to my ears my system sounds better than most.
So precisely true and, as always with you, Jonathan, newer without tones of very subtil humour ! Thanks for this one in memory to our beloved Paul. W. K...
Consumers need to understand that Music is more than entertainment - it's a way to connect, meditate and even improve an individuals' health. Music is a Healer. How we got here, well it's really all about wanting it Now ! Want to improve this industry we ALL Love so much. Make it easy and drive home the importance of The Music. I so enjoy your content and hope your company is enjoying much success. There still is a Must for The Best and the wonderful conversations that go along with the joy of Music.
@@Daniel-hk3ru Yes, but... ! You, me, Jonathan and others, we all are knowing that no school, no course at all will never drive any uncurious people to become a curious skilled strong soul. Music lovers are sharing a Culture, one Art in between so great other ones alike Literature, Painting, Architecture and even the sciences and technologies behind the scenes.., something lots more soul and civilisation spirit connected than simple consumers dedicated products. The art of Edward C. Vente and Albert L. Thuras, of Paul W. Klipsch, of Jonathan Weiss, of Steve Deckert, of Leo Ayzenshtat and others is to love and serve the Music with true amazing well skilled products but not only. The point is that behind the business requirements, we all, as parts of the culture of sound reproduction community, are providing something relevant to the gift to the art of music, in respect to all the great composers whose gifted Us so much over the centuries and civilisations, all over the world. Business and gift as a sole and inseparable soul in some regards. Here is what makes Us strongly alive ;) Kind regards.
"Il me semble qu’ils confondent but et moyen ceux qui s’effraient par trop de nos progrès techniques." Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Finding audio nirvana is a journey. It's that journey that should be enjoyed and not a means to an end. Although others may simply suffer from g.a.s. (gear acquisition syndrome), which no amount of gear will ever be satisfactory.
Interesting video. I have loved listening to music (over reading ugh) since I was about twelve, starting with a little transistor radio listening to am pop. During the next 50 years, I consumed all the formats (lp, cd, mp3). And having a good mid priced system was a way to complement the listening experience. But what is (and has been) happening to the industry is sad. I could go on and on about how bad today's music is, and how little people actually listen to music anymore (for various reasons). The rise of headphones has also hurt the traditional system. And you can't even go and listen to equipment because all of the stores are closing! But sticking to this concept of audiophilia, it's amazing to me how this industry is leading itself right into extinction. It has become an elitist niche hobby which has alienated a lot of people. All they want to do is sell really expensive boxes, recent examples being dac's and streamers. And cables which cost more than my car lol! I hope someone can figure out how to save this industry, because I still believe listening to music is good for the soul, and boy do we need that now more than ever.
I agree. As some other mentioned audiophiles means a friend of audio and not a music lover. So the most audiophiles are most audioequipmentphiles and some times music loves. I personally rarely buy equipment, after very careful thinking what a really want and stay with this equipment for long long time. That's why I love your designs , because they are for life time. Many times a upgrade some parts of this equipment, to but my bersonal signature to the sound. I have an tube amplifier OTL Graaf GM20 for 25 years that pairs my own made high sensitivity speakers, that I have for many years.
If OMA is not totally reflective of what's wrong with hi end today i dont know what is. Frankly ridiculous prices for what is pretty run of the mill equipment. Jonathan is becoming the Mikey of Hi End.
I don't have an awswer for the issues you bring up either but, will think about it more & hope you record any insights you discover. I do have some feedback I think you are a bit black & white about either someone enjoys music or is fixated on always looking for the latest best thing. I honestly am a bit of both but, if it wasn't for the music I love & what I am continuing to discover, via streaming (the most exciting part of the passion for me) I wouldn't be interested in the 'stuff' at all. Also, as a side note I do get the quality of everything your company makes & am very impressed with everything from the materials to the electronics, research & handcrafting. Unforunately, I am a person who has a budget that can't afford your products, not that I think you should make more affordable ones. So I exist in a situation where I have to try products that I can afford. My only option being trying them at home. I have with some components found exactly what pleases me, like speakers but, still continue to look for others. I do appreciate your comments & thoughts & will look forward to others.
I would compare audiophiles to motoring enthusiasts. If you are only interested in the music itself, you can also listen to it on the kitchen radio. If you want to get from place A to place B, you can get there quickly with a Tesla, but of course you can also get to your destination in style, in an old Porsche 911 or even a Ferrari. Often the journey is more important than the destination.
I wish more “audiophiles” had balls like this❤️
More arrogance and ignorance than balls, IMHO...
High end is often a scam to collect money from stupid people into better pockets. It's cold business.
Sound quality characteristics should be measured by comparing competing products with the same speaker enclosure volumes, so that the comparison value ratio clarifies the listener in the same space and in the same places. Of course, with the same music too. High end products (speaker listening settings) do not represent anything but big talk, not covered by comparison ratings that should be in every test at high end fairs.
The spirit of the game is ALWAYS measured BY COMPARISON METHODS EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT THAT HUMANS MAKE!! Otherwise, the development of products will be more inconsistent.
1. Audiophile isn't a dirty word, but boy did you make quite an asertion otherwise. Some collect cars, does that make them an automobilephile?
2. Ends it with the classic line of... "acknowleding there is a problem is the first step".
3. Johnathon, I am sure your company creates fine products. However, the video feels like you are just talking down to your audience...almost whining about the lack of a high end market is somehow a bad thing. Weird.
4. The demographics of the USA simply don't support the expansion of what you might call the "high end" equipment market any more. Your company can either play in the larger (low fi) market or not. That's your choice as a business person. Live with it.
People spend their money like they want and capitalism isn't your problem to fix.
It's interesting, though, how people in America (at least in these kinds of forums) often savage audiophiles' interest in, desire for, and ownership of expensive gear, but not so much the lovers of cars, watches, handbags, shoes, modern art, sports gear, incredibly expensive meals out, and so on. I think it's simply that those items/purchases are regarded as more socially acceptable, or at least more comprehensible.
When will you produce audio equipment that is accessible to by listeners who have limited budgets. Speakers and turntables costing hundreds thousands of dollars, pounds or euros is for those who in a small demographic group who may or may-not even get involved in the music being played. So a-system costing less than $2000 can give the listener that sense or emotion and pleasure from what ever music they play. A properly setup system can pro-tray what has been recorded at whatever performance and in some case sound better. I have been to concerts of orchestral, jazz and rock where the sound quality and balance has reined a good performance by the musicians on stage. I do appreciate the qualities of high end audio and if could afford it would go there. But in the meantime for the majority of those of us who do get emotional involved in our listening what the audio industry produces is what we’ve got.
You are Awesome sir!!! Thank you for speaking the truth! Have a Great day
Great rant ❤❤❤