Brilliant! Both the diagrams and the lecture are just so good. Taking a wild guess, I'd say that 90% or so of creators' Explainer Videos assume far too much of the beginner [would be] home studio artist.
This is really good and clear, thank you. A few comments. 1. The problem with AU inputs is that you are quickly running out of them. You want to add a guitar? You have another drum machine? External effects? Soft Synths from an Ipad? There are never enough inputs on an Audio Interface if you start going hybrid and adding more gear. Yes, you can use digital inputs and yes there are preamp extensions. But all of that adds costs and complexity. 2.The nice thing about hardware is that you can make music away from your computer. I like my DAW and all the capabilities it gives me. But whenever I launch my DAW I am first confronted with myriads of updates and upgrades. Whenever I power on my hardware I make music. So if you want to do both, work independently from your computer as well as integrate everything in your DAW, adding a hardware mixer I feel is the best option. Especialy since these days mixers also come with an USB audio interface. But clearly, the approach you are describing is the most economical one for peps that use a limited number of hardware instruments and will always jam, mix and master with a DAW.
Thank you, been trying to figure out exactly how to do this lately, and surprisingly it's not easy to find any clear info for a "dummie". This was spot on. Thanks again.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. This setup is exactly what I was looking for, and the clarity, i.e., graphics, animation, and audio quality, is greatly appreciated. Best,
Is this making 1 of the 2 signals "out of phase".? I am really Missing something here in combining 2 separate signals from 2 devices into a "Y" to save 1 space into the interface or patch bay.
Another useful video. I like your style of presentation and you "sound" like you know your stuff. I'm a novice home studio guy looking for a simple and effective multitrack system with midi integration. I'm hoping the Behringer U-phoria 1820 will work with my MPC ONE some cheap synths and a humble eurorack modular system, and also an oldish windows 10 laptop.
@dancetech I've been waiting since yesterday for my MOTU 4x4 Audio Interface to arrive via crappy UPS when I accidentally came upon your very helpful video explaining exactly how to use it with my two keyboards and Cubase as soon as I unbox it. With your help, I won't even need to read whatever instructions are included with it. Thanks so much for a very simple and succinct tutorial.
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for with my new Scarlette 18i20. I’m running my guitar direct in and then a DI box to simultaneously record a clean signal on track two- but was struggling on where to run the signal out to from my Midi Controller/Sampler/Fader and a drum machine. I then want to run my Guitar Pedals as a separate track that I can send audio out to- this made everything a lot clearer! Thank you!
I would recommend a few things, since your already at this point. :) midi interface would be good, a hub (i use thunderbolt) which allows even allows additional midi interfaces as you expand! Oh and a mixer! These things can allow you to have less than 8 inputs or use inputs for other things. The mixers give you individual settings and eq’s. The Midi interface allows each piece to be controlled via the master board, and the hub is just great for expansion. I actually run 15 synths, 2 drum machines, 1 sampler drum machine, and one sampler with two computers midi networked! I have two interfaces with more inputs and out puts all sync’d together with the option to make either computer the master. One computer is a imac and the other is a macbook pro, and for the longest time i did not realize i could midi network the two so i would find myself going back n forth for different stuff. Not tho, its one big super music making machine! Just my two cents
Greetings, I am trying to do just that! I used to have a home studio in the early 90s when MIDI was still quite new, now things have changed, some for better, some for worse. I want to use my Korg Pa3X 's internal sequencer(assigning patches and vocal harmonies to midi tracks 1-16) and my Alesis drum machine for selecting patches in my DAW(Cubase). I have two midi interfaces, an M-Audio M-Track and a Volt 2. (2 Ins and 2 Outs each) Also, I have Cubasis 3.4 on my iPad which I want to integrate into my workflow. I've bought a new Yamaha MG-XU mixer with USB connectivity. The audio setup is a Rockville subwoofer going into a pair of Yamaha HS5. I have a Mackee Thump which I want to use for alternative mono sound while mixing. I would gladly pay you via Venmo, Zelle, or Apple Pay, if you could help me set it up correctly. You can contact me by replying to this message, or find me on Facebook under James Bastani (Jamshid). Thanks in advance!
this was incredibly helpful. simplifying this stuff dissolves the fear impulse in me that seems to be on some quest to thwart my creative efforts. nasty little dragon being slayed in real time... yaaaay!!
Great great video!;) I just have to make a comment on this. Cos for many years I have liked to make music with and external mixer but never got it to work right I could play midi but not record it properly audio. I saw this video and thought I give it a shot so I brought a 1824c. I had big problems to get it working but on my way to give up. This morning I got my sound out from my external synth. I had created a midi track in Pro Tools and recorded directly to an audiotrack in monitor mode. Just like you say I would be able to. I never tought of this metode but yes its a rally rally great way to do it. So I will say thank you so much for revealing this. Im so happy now thank you.
Of all the Logic videos I've watched yours are the most understandable. Now I have a huge request. I just purchased a Soundcraft 22MTK, which to me is the ultimate hybrid mixer. I'm having problems just trying to make everything make sense, especially with logic. I know eventually by pushing all the buttons and swearing a great deal I would be able to figure it out. But I was hoping if you had both time and the desire, you could do a series on this mixer. This mixer is truly the best of both worlds. I would greatly appreciate it. Please keep up the great work you do. It has helped me a ton.
It's nothing to do with Logic, this mixer would work the same with any DAW. The issue is, how do you plan to use it? what are you doing? Recording a band using multiple microphones? Routing lot's of external midi hardware? How are you planning to use it?
well the way I would use it is: plug the mics in to channels, set the gain, and then route to DAW track, then switch all Mic channels to USB so you are listening to the RETURN FROM THE DAW track on each channel. That's the traditional multitrack method.
This was a really useful video as I had been running different ways of doing this through my head for a while and couldn't make my mind up as to which was the best way to do it. Thanks
great overview, couple of things ...... - what about if we have some hardware reverbs we want to use as sends on each channel of the DAW ? - what is a midi interface used for? such as the rack midi interfaces with tonnes of midi ports at the back of the units ?
Will I have to do this every time I open Logic or does it remember? Best video I’ve seen explaining this yet! Thanks a million! My setup: -Mac Studio -Yamaha P-35 -Yamaha KX88 -Prophet Rev 2 -Yamaha DX7 -Mic -Acoustic guitar/Acoustic guitar/Ukulele
You are a God send. Thank you thank you thank you for this tutorial. Clear, concise accurate and succinct. Thank you very very kindly. This is the best birthday surprise I got today. :)!!
1:45 probably should point out that you want a MIDI Thru box to connect your hardware to the DAW. Each piece of hardware will be auto assigned a MIDI channel and samplers will usually get 10 or so MIDI channels for all the various individual sounds. Now most importantly I don't know what I'm talking about as I am learning this myself so may of just typed incorrect info. You should be able to assign the channels yourself and I've had the issue where after auto connecting some MIDI channels are a mix of different synths and even different patches not actually selected.
welcome to the wonderful world of MIDI hardware! 👍.. but no, hardware does not get auto-assigned a channel, you assign the channel manually (although some GM 'player' units might break that rule, but that's a whole other type of unit with a specific purpose), additionally some multi-timbrel instruments might assign 16 patch 'slots' to channels 1-16 ascending... Yes, correct, it is always better and easier to have a midi THRU distribution box, which makes things much easier than daisy-chaining MIDI THRU each hardware unit
And you can Have a MIDI controller mapped to your DAWs mixer so you get The tactility of a hardware mixer combined with The benefits of a vst mixer. 👌☑️
This is good foundation for hardware to daw music production. This is where you start and the possibilities from here is limited by you budget and imagination.
Unless you have a mixer with multitracking out. Btw your tutorial, make a song in Logic, knocking on heavens door was my first ever music production tutorial, many years ago! Much respect!!
I have the exact set up, I'm now in the process of getting a midi clock and jam with hardware synths while record it all via DAW. Struggling with the configuration at the moment
I've done a bit of that. I have a Yamaha W5, Roland JV 1000 and Roland JV80. I have a midi 2x2, a midi 1x1 and 1x1 on the MIDI interface. But to get Logic to know which sound, what bank! and device was a nightmare. Only the W5 is loaded with 10's of sounds. But to get the playing or midi score to get to the right synth, right sound/bank, play through headphones and being able to record the audio from them into Logic it is rocket science. I might be able to change sound but to change bank I have no idea. It is possible to Logic did that in the 90's. I could have a couple of sounds from one device, a couple from another and some from a third multitimbral but it's so hard to get MIDI and audio.
Years ago, for life performance I used Cakewalk to dump control messages just to setup my audio devices for sounds, levels, patches and what not. I had a bunch of songs saved on Cakewalk, but with nothing but the control messages. Would you kindly cover that topic? Cheers! :)
Surely there's no "best" way to do it. I'm thinking that if you output your audio from the pc into the individual outputs on the audio interface you're using and then into their own individual channels on your mixing desk alongside any outputs from your external equipment, you get to use the unique characteristics of whatever mixing desk you're using. EQ, Compressors etc?
I am so grateful for all your videos and the time you so generously put into educating me and every body who waits patiently for your newest release. I am thinking of buying a JV-1080 and a Roland SH-32 from a friend and am hoping to use it with an old Roland XP-50 with Logic pro X. This is helpful. I hope you will do more on this topic. For instance, how can I use a XP-50 synth as a midi controller or can I?
Yes you could use any synth with midi as the master keyboard. If you also want that synth to play it's own internal sounds as part of the composition then there's a further technique required to set that up, which i should have included in this video. Now i'll have to make a part-2 video dammit :)
All through the 90s and early 2000s I did tons of midi programing within Cubase/Logic and had pretty decent Midi/USB interface (Motu) and ATARI earlier before that. The midi was super tight and everything was monitored and recorded through the mixing desk and captured to DAT etc. USB/MIDI is nothing like before, have tried tons of the newer stuff(iconnetivity, etc), they all have midi latency,. I don't like recording digital audio into DAW but do you think I could use the set up you have above to have zero latency of Midi, Audio playback because the DAW would correct the any delay and we could print audio to the DAW or capture the left and right signal out from DAW to another external recorder, DAT, Tape etc. Will also the Metronome with the DAW be in sync with the Monitoring of all the external instruments. Just trying to have alternate possibilities of recording. Thank You!!
You can use the DGX 660 as your master keyboard& use it's internal sounds at the same time , but when you are playing the same keyboard you also want the DAW to record & trigger, you turn Local Control OFF... that way, the notes when you play go to the DAW MIDI track, pass THRU and back to the keyboard to trigger whatever patch is on whatever channel you're playing.
I'm trying to get the first setup you mentioned. I think that was a picture of the mixer I got, Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK....I don't like mixing in the DAW, I like sliding faders a moving knobs... I'm trying to get my sync/click set up so everyone knows the tempo.
Hello Again. Thanks for this tutorial. It has been years since I had my 24 track analogue studio. When you mention out from the audio interface, you didn't mention IN to the hardware. Is it OUT to IN or OUT to OUT please. I also suspect that if it is out from the Audio interface to the IN of the synth, it id OUT from the synth to the in of the next synth. Is that correct?
You’ve just answered so many questions i’ve been searching for. The diagrams and the way you explain is absolutely perfect for us beginners, thank you for all this valuable information. Quick question, is that midi out from the audio interface to midi in or thru on the synth, bassline ect?
The MIDI OUT from the DAW/Computer goes into the MIDI IN of all external hardware. You can either connect them up in series using MIDI THRU on each unit if it has that socket (so IN to the first unit, THRU from that to the IN of the next unit etc), but it is far better to use a MIDI distribution THRU Box and bring the DAW MIDI into that and then send THRU from that box to all hardware units on their own MIDI cable, makes life easier.
@@dancetech Thank you so much for the quick response and for explaining that the way you did, i’m so glad i found your channel! All my hardware has MIDI thru and usb. Was thinking about getting the Kenton MIDI Thru 12, would that be ok? And yeah i can see just how beneficial it would be. Thanks again 👍
@@dancetech Glad to know i’m on the right path, just noticed some of my hardware doesn’t have a THRU, what would i do then? Is this where the daisy chain comes into play or is it something else completely?
@@soundsofthenewberlin well if you want to play the external hardware midi kit from a usb master key board then you have usb master keyboard sending midi IN to the DAW via usb, then midi OUT to the hardware units is handled by a midi usb hub, ideally with as many MIDI ports as you have midi items (once port for each midi item)👍
Thank you! I’m completely new to this and this may be a dumb question but I don’t know and you probably do, so here it goes: If I want to run a sample through some external hardware is there a way to loop that sample of the DAW through the hardware back into the DAW, or do I need a hardware sampler for this? Thank you!
Thanks ! This video helps me a lot ! I'd just one question : do I need a Midi Thru case if I want to send different midi infos to my external hardwares or can I just connect them like a chain ? Thanks for your answer, keep going! :)
you can connect them like a chain, assuming they have enough THRU sockets on them, but tbh it's better to have a MIDI distribution box if you have a few bits of gear.
great video 2 things I have a question about.. midi so when you want to play midi in how do you assign the correct unit would the first one literally be midi 1 then next one 2 so on? and how would you use a midi interface in this set up.. and also how would you add fx units onto the audio channels/hardware units so say I was playing the supernova in this set up and wanted to add a delay hardware unit fx onto the supernova how do I do that? thanks in advance
Great video, i'm building a new studio at the moment and was wondering, with the line inputs for instance from the casio and the rack below, are those 2 inputs mono?
Great video! I'm still doubting whether to go for the mixer or interface approach.. I recently acquired quite a few vintage hardware synths and 8 ports simply is not enough :( There's a JV-1080, Korg M1R, Yamaha TX81Z, Roland U-220, Roland MKS-50, Roland TR8-S, Roland JP-8080, Korg Minilogue XD and a Behringer TD-03 in the collection. Some/most of those should probably be connected in stereo I reckon. The MIDI connections are clear, but how should I go about connecting up the audio outs? Thanks for any feedback!
well the problem is how many of those units do you want to connect at once. the roland drumbox alone has 8 outs. The cheapest solutions will yield 16 physical line inputs so you can route a max 16 hardware OUTputs IN to your DAW at the same time. So either a USB equipped mixer which gives 16 USB channels to your DAW or the behringer UMC1820 audio interface with the Behringer ADA8200 ADAT rack added will give you 16 physical IN's. Above 16 channels your best best is the LIVE PA racks from the likes of Mackie, Behringer, Presonus, Soundcraft etc. The Mackie DL32R stage rack will give you 32 channels Inputs to your DAW, a BIG channel count, but costs about £1400-£1600 GBP. The Mackie DL32S stage rack will give you 32 channels Inputs to your DAW, a BIG channel count, and this cheaper version cost about £800 GBP. The Behringer XR18 stage rack gives 18 inputs to the DAW for just over £500 GBP The Soundcraft Ui24 stage rack will give you 24 channels to the DAW but costs about £750 GBP Zoom LiveTrak L-20R gives 20 channels to the DAW for around £600 GBP Presonus StudioLive Series III 16R, 24R or 32R give 16, 24 or 32 channels via USB to your DAW plus main stereo mix (sum of all inputs) and ghey cost around £950, £1200 & £1400 respectively Other options would be the Mackie ONYX USB mixers, but the biggest, the Onyx16 still only gives you 18 channels to the DAW, and again it costs more than the Behringer UMC1820 & ADA8200 ADAT rack combination. Do you see where this is going? The other option is a traditional mixer with 4 or 8 buses or direct outs feeding a tradition 8 input USB audio interface, which would allow you to monitor the external hardware and DAW audio together on the mixer and route any items to record as and when you need to record them either via direct outs on their channels or by routing them to busses, but unless the mixer has built in FX your external midi kit will be dry with no FX. The solution to that is to get a mixer with 4 or much rarer 8 buses with built in FX, the cheapest of which would be something like the old Behringer sx2442fx mixer or something similar which is current from companies like Behringer, mackie, yamaha, soundcraft, zoom etc. so the bottom line is, if you want A LOT of midi kit outputs routed to your DAW at the same time, the solution is costly when you go above 16 physical DAW inputs.
👍 actually, thanks for the suggestion, because i think i'm going to do a video on this topic because there is really no video out there which makes all this clear. cheers
@@dancetech Exactly .. this is the first video I've encountered that explains it clearly.. Perhaps one more thought - let's assume I want to use a mixer's (like a Mackie for example) overdrive on a kick drum channel, but I only have an 8 channel Mackie. But 8 channels won't be enough in my setup... I don't suppose you could daisy chain mixers? And sorry if that's a really stupid thing to ask but I'm new to hardware setups ;) And a final thing .. you mentioned 16 channels or more over USB to the DAW, meaning you wouldn't use the mixer's main outputs going into the audio interface?
yeah you can daisy chain mixers, it's not really recommended, but you send the main out from one to 2 inputs on the other in in via a couple of aux returns, but obviously things like SOLO & Aux sends will only work per mixer, not across both unless you start to use stuff like a patchbay to sum sends before they hit rack fx. Your Q2. If you send a load of hardware to a mixer and then send the final stereo out of the mixer to the DAW, yes, you get the sum of all the hardware mixed to stereo on a stereo track/channel of the DAW... you can monitor that way, and then when it comes time to mix you can mute all but one hardware unit on the mixer, record it to the audio track, make a new audio track, un-mute the next hardware channel/s & record that hardware unit... and go through the hardware units one by one, recording each unit by itself to audio, then mix internal adding fx etc. The beauty of sending hardware IN to the DAW via audio interface inputs is that you can add fx in the DAW mixer & when you bounce them to audio they will sound identical to how you set them up in the DAW mix cos the same fx will be on their channels. If you go down the mixer route each bit of hardware has no FX, unless you have mixer fx built into the mixer to add or you use external hardware fx.. and even then, when you bounce them to audio tracks, unless you bounce the fx too then once bounced they sound different without the fx from the board. i'm going for a big rebuild of my room here soon after which i'll have a full hardware setup again with mixer, midi hardware & rack fx and daw & then i will start to make videos on all this. cheers
I have a query I hope you can help with. I have 6 external synths / drum machines but would also like to add my mixer to how you have set up in the video. I have a Mackie 1402 VLZ4 mixer (and a Behringer UMC1820 interface which arrived today!) I’d like the mixer involved to try and get away from the computer as much. Thanks in advance - absolute belter of a video btw!
Hi, great video. I’m looking to get a few bits of hardware starting with the Proteus 2000. Only one thing I’m confused about. If I connect my Proteus via midi to my audio interface how would I then connect another piece of hardware? Is it chained via the ‘thru’ midi port on the Proteus and into a line on the audio interface?
dont confuse midi & audio... you connect the MIDI OUT of the audio interface (or from a separate USB Midi port device) and connect to your MIDI hardware via IN & THRU sockets on each device or via a MIDI distribution THRU box with each THRU output being connected to the MIDi Input of each bit of hardware... the audio is completely unrelated & always the same, simply connect the OUTPUTS of the hardware devices to the INPUTS of the audio interface. Finnally if you want to actually play any bit of midi hardware from a master keyboard, that needs to be connected to the DAW MIDI INPUT.... you leave the master keyboard set to channel 1... select sa mdi track in the DAW and assign that track to the midi channel fo the external device you wish to play & record midi notes & data for.... the dAW midi channel will re-channelise the incoming midi from the master keyboard, sending it back OUT of the daw to your external midi chain on whatever channel the daw midi track is set to then obviously each bit of external gear needs to be on a different midi channel When using multi-timbrel midi devices like the Proteus you plan to get then obviously you can assign different patches to midi channels inside that device... just make sure no other bit of external midi kit you add to the chain uses any of the channels utilised by the Proteus (or any other multi-timbrel device)
@@dancetechthank you very much that makes absolute sense now. I’ve go my proteus on the way so when I get my next bit of kit I’ll know what to do in order to get it all working. Keep up the excellent videos please 🙌🏻
How would Integrated my Allen & Heath GS3 Inline Pult in your case, to get the possibility for hands on the mixer? Would be great if you can helf with ideas Chris
is it possible to use a mixer that have no usb conection but midi in/out/thru (5pin) and plug it to a soundcard like Focusrite that also have in and out conection and control a virtual mixer of a DAW ? I mean that if i use the midi learn protocol and assign 1 real fader to the virtual one via midi in an out conection, does the virtual mixer react ?
Hey! nice video! I am planning to buy a behringer Model D synth. My only question is, does a Model D Synth control VSTi? I know it might be a wrong question here but any idea!?
Awesome! Thanks a lot! How would I go about if I simply want to jam with hardware synths, drum machines and effects etc. but be able to record each instrument channel individually? Would I use the same setup?
in that scenario, you'd send all hardware to the mixer, send the mixer L/R OUT in to the daw input L/R, then compose your external midi parts. To record each external bit of kit to the daw, you'd mute any other mixer channels which are active, record that bit of midi kit to an audio track in the daw, add fx & eq etc in the daw to that newly recorded audio track & carry on like that, recording each item of midi kit one by one to audio tracks and then mixing those stems in with the onboard daw sounds. Obviously any external midi kit running on the mixer will have no fx unless the mixer has fx built in or the synth has built in fx, or you have external hardware fx, but tbh a cheap old s/h midiverb type of unit would get you delay & reverb ok, you could even use guitar fx pedals just to get some basic reverb & delay
yes, but ideally i want to wait until i have rebuilt my work room. When that is done i'll have a mixer, 8 track & lost of hardware setup again & I will be doing lots of hardware & DAW tutorials 👍
Thank you for this but I have a question… i’m running my guitar and base guitar through an effects processor and then from there I’m going line in to my audio interface… I also have other effect pedals i’m going to add in a chain… All of these have Midi and I would like all of the effects petals and all of my synthesizers and my drum machine to be clocks synced to Ableton using ableton as the master clock. Any idea how to accomplish this? Thank you again for the video. It was very helpful
@@dancetech hello , i need help i have TG 77 yamaha rack and i buy it some DX electric piano patch, and i need to send the patch to TG 77 witch midi conections , i start to download SY manager 5 and folow the instructions ,but i dont now have to connect my synth rack ,when i connect in modul write missing connection what is wrong? please help me
I have a question. I have a synth that has 8 midi channels already. For each of the 4 analog parts and for the 4 digital parts. And other synths that have also 2-4 channels. So I run out of 16 midi channels on a bus. How do you go about recording those and how can you extend midi outputs in the best way? There is the MOTU but I’m not sure it solves my problem of having my daw or controller keyboard play one of the assigned synthesizer with its midi channels.
well you'd have to have more dedicated midi out buses: try reading & asking here: www.midi.org/forum/144-how-to-connect-and-manage-a-massive-collection-of-midi-hardware once such a setup is created, like as usual you always play the required midi unit from the laster keyboard THRU the DAW track assigned to it which both routes the midi TO the required unit & allows recording of the played parts to the required track of course
Very helpful, thanks. I have two external synths (one with a keyboard and one without), and a midi controller. Both synths can route midi to and from the DAW via USB. So I think I can skip the midi daisy chain?
Are you daisy chaining the midi between the external hardwares? How is it possible to connect if there’s only one available midi port going out from your audio interface?
Great video! But say you have the Behringer RD-8 drum machine and want to record using the 11 individual outputs? I have the PreSonus Studio 1810c interface and it doesn't have enough outputs. Then what? I also have the Drumbrute Impact and don't even know how to record using it, in Studio One. I have to get on it!
I'll be doing a video on that soon (servicing a couple of mixers right now), it's a bit hard to explain all the possible variations in a message. tell me EXACTLY what you want to do.
@@dancetech basically I want to have my synths/beat machines etc. connected to both mixer and daw with a ability to record the mix going through the mixer. I want to also have the ability to jam with the synths without daw and then ability to quickly switch to working with them on daw ( separated into channels etc, but also with usb functionality like lets say with my elektron analog rytm i would wanna be able to also separate different drums into sub channels in daw etc.) but still going through the mixer with the ability to record the mix post mixer... i dont even know what im talkina about xD
@@peraltazimmerman lol... so you want to have your hardware outputs running thru the mixer channels and at anytime be able to have them routed to DAW tracks individually. ok, but to do that you also will need to monitor the DAW audio so you can hear the external kit & DAW audio all together so basically you setup the mixer - all hardware outs route to channels - you can mix that together to the main L/R stereo mix bus if you want to have a mixer channel sent to a DAW track to record: send the mixer channel OUT via a GROUP OUT to the DAW MONO input - route the DAW L/R OUT to a stereo mixer channel or send the channel OUT from the mixer via a Direct OUT - Then take the channel sending TO the DAW & switch it OUT of the mixer's main L/R Mix Bus and monitor 'Off Tape' coming back from the DAW doing a round trip with the DAW track set to MONITOR so the signal passes THRU the DAW and back to the mixer via the DAW L/R OUT channels - you have to do it that way or you get a loop A mixer with 2 groups - this limits you to sending a max 2 feeds to the DAW A mixer with 4 groups - this limits you to sending a max 4 feeds to the DAW A mixer with direct outs (assuming the mixer has a minimum 8 channels) - you are limited by how many inputs your DAW has - direct outs send to DAW inputs
Thanx for posting the video, i have a question: Is it possible when i connect midi in from my keyboard to out on my daw 1 , the out from keyboard to the in from my daw 1 , to use the thru from my keyboard and connect it to the midi in from another daw 2 ? in other words, can i use 1 keyboard to send midi to 2 daws ?
Would there be any latency issues if you would add to this setup more io, hardware processors like a reverb/delay, dbx compressor, pultecs and masterbus comp. Theoretical situation u have kick and snare sample in the s950 goin in on separate channels on the interface. You want to add an eq plug in daw on and also process them through a hardware reverb via send. After that send them out to a dbx comp then back in to the daw. Next create a drumgroup of them into a drum bus and send that into a pultec eq. And lastly have hardware sterecomp insert on the master channel. All of this processing would be happning in real time in a jamming like situation where the kick and snare would be coming straight out of the 950 meaning the signals would not be prerecorded to daw. All of my production is done otb with hardware sequencers and samplers, and im asking this cause i would like to know if its possible to create a ”final mix” with a hardware setup like thiw before hitting record on daw? The interface would function more like a analog mixer in this case. What kind of latency issues can you expect from a situation like this? Would a setup like this only cause headache and i would just be better of using a mixer? However, I would like to add that preferably i want avoid using a mixer if i can since the mixers i can afford might not be that great. Cheers!
in a word, no.i wouldn't do that, you would be combining latency, and without getting out a pencil and paper and drawing the plot diagram of what you describe to check, there could be loop feedback issues with send/returns - plus you'd end up with almost no actual inputs available as so many would be occupied with send/return & bus send/return duties negating the entire point of the technique which is to use inputs as inputs. latency issues? Just sending out and back from a h/w reverb would add another bunch of ms delay to the reverb return, not a massive issue with time-based fx like delay/reverb, but still depending on the reverb program chosen it might sound weird with additional pre-delay added... and then there'd be the nightmare of printing everything to final record, and delays in signals which then would have to be re-aligned manually you'd be better off getting a mixer and using that in combination with an interface - and that brings in different techniques which we'll be making example videos about when the new space is setup here with a full outboard hardware + mixer + DAW setup. 👍
RE: The external Midi devices. Are these being Chained, Out to Out to Out? And then, I get to, Oops, My Dreadbox Nymphes, which is USB. Nymphes works, has a MONO OUT only and is recognized by Cubase; it just doesn't have the DIN MIDI. And then, finally, a bit puzzled as to, for example, HOW I would feed a VST synth like Zebra2 into my ZOOM Multi Stomp, in order to apply the zoom FX to the synth. In short, I've got 4 desktop synths (a fifth coming) and it seems like I'll be doing a lot of Connecting, Disconnecting, Reconnecting to record them then set them aside when not in use. Sometimes I think I maybe should have picked Boardgames Collector as my hobby.
no you cant daisy chain MIDI via OUT connectors, only THRU (unless the synth has an internal switch to switch the OUT socket to THRU function). For USB synths simply connect them up and assign the midi track designated to that synth to that usb midi out, you can still route the audio OUT from that synth as shown. Sending a VST synth audio OUT and through external fx and back into the mix is another subject. The routing is obvious: use a spare audio out which is not part of the main L/R OUT monitor chain & send the synth out into the fx unit & back in again via a spare designated audio interface audio INPUT socket, but the issue there is latency, which will be more than triggering via an external hardware synth via midi and routing it's audio IN to the DAW mix, cos it's a round trip in this case.. OUt from the vst synth thru the fx unit and back In to the daw. But with very low buffers set on the audio interface it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
@@dancetech Great info! RE: your paragraph 2. I think if I read and reread...and then have someone read it aloud whilst I sleep, it's gonna sink in and become clear. I have a direct support link to a guy at iConnnectivity. My audio interface is the Audio4+. While it has a LOT of tricks up its sleeve, it has fewer Inputs than the one you're using. I'm sure much will translate, I'm sure. I simply haven't contacted my iConnect guy since I had the brain spasm which caused me to acquire a bunch of desktop synths. Anyway, I will share the info you've provided with him. HE will say, sure....all that's right, so what's the prob? He'll then open his utensils drawer and spoon feed me a bit. Thanks!!
@@watchaddicts1213 lol, maybe get more inputs.. did you see this video? th-cam.com/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/w-d-xo.html - the soundcraft unit btw also comes in a 12 channel version (Ui12) which is really cheap, like 300 ish
Sweet, can you also control the synths back - so change the loops and (play them)by changing the recorded midi tracks, launching and muting (for live work) patterns ?
this is exactly what i do, but with 2 identical setups. 2 computers, 2 8 channel recorders, one in slave mode thru optical. the second computer serves as an instrument, second to the master computer.
It's truly surprising how few people discuss the issue of connection and how the DAW model works. Thanks!
Finally a clear, concise explanation of how to step up a computer DAW with my gear.
Brilliant! Both the diagrams and the lecture are just so good. Taking a wild guess, I'd say that 90% or so of creators' Explainer Videos assume far too much of the beginner [would be] home studio artist.
thankyou
This is really good and clear, thank you. A few comments.
1. The problem with AU inputs is that you are quickly running out of them. You want to add a guitar? You have another drum machine? External effects? Soft Synths from an Ipad? There are never enough inputs on an Audio Interface if you start going hybrid and adding more gear. Yes, you can use digital inputs and yes there are preamp extensions. But all of that adds costs and complexity.
2.The nice thing about hardware is that you can make music away from your computer. I like my DAW and all the capabilities it gives me. But whenever I launch my DAW I am first confronted with myriads of updates and upgrades. Whenever I power on my hardware I make music. So if you want to do both, work independently from your computer as well as integrate everything in your DAW, adding a hardware mixer I feel is the best option. Especialy since these days mixers also come with an USB audio interface.
But clearly, the approach you are describing is the most economical one for peps that use a limited number of hardware instruments and will always jam, mix and master with a DAW.
Thank you, been trying to figure out exactly how to do this lately, and surprisingly it's not easy to find any clear info for a "dummie". This was spot on. Thanks again.
I have to say ... this is probably the best, simple, and most concise explanation of basic set up I've ever seen - fantastico!! Thank you!!
cheers mate.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. This setup is exactly what I was looking for, and the clarity, i.e., graphics, animation, and audio quality, is greatly appreciated.
Best,
Thought i'd add this from the audio interface roundup as a video in it's own right - people might need this as a topic
thank you for your time
Is this making 1 of the 2 signals "out of phase".? I am really Missing something here in combining 2 separate signals from 2 devices into a "Y" to save 1 space into the interface or patch bay.
@@zazoomatt mate, keep your replies int he same thread.
yes... thanks so much for your time & efforts here.
Another useful video. I like your style of presentation and you "sound" like you know your stuff. I'm a novice home studio guy looking for a simple and effective multitrack system with midi integration. I'm hoping the Behringer U-phoria 1820 will work with my MPC ONE some cheap synths and a humble eurorack modular system, and also an oldish windows 10 laptop.
Finally a video that's addressed most of my questions, thank you!
Absolutely. Thank for being so clear and concise
@dancetech I've been waiting since yesterday for my MOTU 4x4 Audio Interface to arrive via crappy UPS when I accidentally came upon your very helpful video explaining exactly how to use it with my two keyboards and Cubase as soon as I unbox it. With your help, I won't even need to read whatever instructions are included with it. Thanks so much for a very simple and succinct tutorial.
Great video! This is nice if your synths have a midi THRU port; otherwise you can't just chain them as you show but you need to use a midi thru box.
Finally, someone that explains it in such a way that my dumb brain can understand! Thank you so much!
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for with my new Scarlette 18i20. I’m running my guitar direct in and then a DI box to simultaneously record a clean signal on track two- but was struggling on where to run the signal out to from my Midi Controller/Sampler/Fader and a drum machine. I then want to run my Guitar Pedals as a separate track that I can send audio out to- this made everything a lot clearer!
Thank you!
thank you i was needing to hear this!! and now I'm researching about MIDI splitters
This is *exactly* the information I was looking for, thanks!
I would recommend a few things, since your already at this point. :) midi interface would be good, a hub (i use thunderbolt) which allows even allows additional midi interfaces as you expand! Oh and a mixer! These things can allow you to have less than 8 inputs or use inputs for other things. The mixers give you individual settings and eq’s. The Midi interface allows each piece to be controlled via the master board, and the hub is just great for expansion. I actually run 15 synths, 2 drum machines, 1 sampler drum machine, and one sampler with two computers midi networked! I have two interfaces with more inputs and out puts all sync’d together with the option to make either computer the master. One computer is a imac and the other is a macbook pro, and for the longest time i did not realize i could midi network the two so i would find myself going back n forth for different stuff. Not tho, its one big super music making machine! Just my two cents
Greetings,
I am trying to do just that! I used to have a home studio in the early 90s when MIDI was still quite new, now things have changed, some for better, some for worse.
I want to use my Korg Pa3X 's internal sequencer(assigning patches and vocal harmonies to midi tracks 1-16) and my Alesis drum machine for selecting patches in my DAW(Cubase). I have two midi interfaces, an M-Audio M-Track and a
Volt 2. (2 Ins and 2 Outs each)
Also, I have Cubasis 3.4 on my iPad which I want to integrate into my workflow.
I've bought a new Yamaha MG-XU mixer with USB connectivity.
The audio setup is a Rockville subwoofer going into a pair of Yamaha HS5.
I have a Mackee Thump which I want to use for alternative mono sound while mixing.
I would gladly pay you via Venmo, Zelle, or Apple Pay, if you could help me set it up correctly.
You can contact me by replying to this message, or find me on Facebook under James Bastani (Jamshid). Thanks in advance!
this was incredibly helpful. simplifying this stuff dissolves the fear impulse in me that seems to be on some quest to thwart my creative efforts. nasty little dragon being slayed in real time... yaaaay!!
same. found this video really helped me understand it.
Another great tutorial lesson very helpful grateful this is keeping coming with it. Much needed
give thanks
Best video on this subject I have found! Thanks for this explanation.
Great great video!;) I just have to make a comment on this. Cos for many years I have liked to make music with and external mixer but never got it to work right I could play midi but not record it properly audio. I saw this video and thought I give it a shot so I brought a 1824c. I had big problems to get it working but on my way to give up. This morning I got my sound out from my external synth. I had created a midi track in Pro Tools and recorded directly to an audiotrack in monitor mode. Just like you say I would be able to. I never tought of this metode but yes its a rally rally great way to do it. So I will say thank you so much for revealing this. Im so happy now thank you.
👍 cool
Of all the Logic videos I've watched yours are the most understandable. Now I have a huge request. I just purchased a Soundcraft 22MTK, which to me is the ultimate hybrid mixer. I'm having problems just trying to make everything make sense, especially with logic. I know eventually by pushing all the buttons and swearing a great deal I would be able to figure it out. But I was hoping if you had both time and the desire, you could do a series on this mixer. This mixer is truly the best of both worlds. I would greatly appreciate it. Please keep up the great work you do. It has helped me a ton.
It's nothing to do with Logic, this mixer would work the same with any DAW. The issue is, how do you plan to use it? what are you doing? Recording a band using multiple microphones? Routing lot's of external midi hardware? How are you planning to use it?
@@dancetech I am recording a band . I'm just very new to the whole process of recording especially hybrid mixing,
well the way I would use it is: plug the mics in to channels, set the gain, and then route to DAW track, then switch all Mic channels to USB so you are listening to the RETURN FROM THE DAW track on each channel. That's the traditional multitrack method.
@@dancetech I'll give it a try. Thanks for the response, it is greatly appreciated.
Great review, overall very informative with a clear explanation.
This was a really useful video as I had been running different ways of doing this through my head for a while and couldn't make my mind up as to which was the best way to do it.
Thanks
thanks. If you need more than 8 physical inputs, this might be useful: th-cam.com/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/w-d-xo.html
@@dancetech Im sorry to say Im not that rich hahah thank you anyway
@@NailBombEnjoyer about 320 quid for the cheapest 16 input solution. 👍
great overview, couple of things ......
- what about if we have some hardware reverbs we want to use as sends on each channel of the DAW ?
- what is a midi interface used for? such as the rack midi interfaces with tonnes of midi ports at the back of the units ?
Will I have to do this every time I open Logic or does it remember?
Best video I’ve seen explaining this yet! Thanks a million!
My setup:
-Mac Studio
-Yamaha P-35
-Yamaha KX88
-Prophet Rev 2
-Yamaha DX7
-Mic
-Acoustic guitar/Acoustic guitar/Ukulele
You create a project & load that with the settings all ready to go
incredibly helpful, excellent teaching.
You are a God send. Thank you thank you thank you for this tutorial. Clear, concise accurate and succinct. Thank you very very kindly. This is the best birthday surprise I got today. :)!!
1:45 probably should point out that you want a MIDI Thru box to connect your hardware to the DAW. Each piece of hardware will be auto assigned a MIDI channel and samplers will usually get 10 or so MIDI channels for all the various individual sounds. Now most importantly I don't know what I'm talking about as I am learning this myself so may of just typed incorrect info. You should be able to assign the channels yourself and I've had the issue where after auto connecting some MIDI channels are a mix of different synths and even different patches not actually selected.
welcome to the wonderful world of MIDI hardware! 👍.. but no, hardware does not get auto-assigned a channel, you assign the channel manually (although some GM 'player' units might break that rule, but that's a whole other type of unit with a specific purpose), additionally some multi-timbrel instruments might assign 16 patch 'slots' to channels 1-16 ascending... Yes, correct, it is always better and easier to have a midi THRU distribution box, which makes things much easier than daisy-chaining MIDI THRU each hardware unit
And you can Have a MIDI controller mapped to your DAWs mixer so you get The tactility of a hardware mixer combined with The benefits of a vst mixer.
👌☑️
mmm... tactility.
This is good foundation for hardware to daw music production. This is where you start and the possibilities from here is limited by you budget and imagination.
Excellent setup / video DT !!
You get all the style points. thank you.
Unless you have a mixer with multitracking out. Btw your tutorial, make a song in Logic, knocking on heavens door was my first ever music production tutorial, many years ago! Much respect!!
best explanation on youtube
Bloody well done mate! Cheers…
Straight to the point...excellent
great and amazing video! thank you so much!
wowwww, great video!!!!!! you answered all my questions
Thanks very much, very concise and to the point.
Thank you kindly, straight to the point
I have the exact set up, I'm now in the process of getting a midi clock and jam with hardware synths while record it all via DAW. Struggling with the configuration at the moment
Good to know this and a very good presentation of whats normally a nightmare to even imagine
Thanks. I thought about trying to describe it in words only. very difficult to convey, hence the graphics.
I've done a bit of that. I have a Yamaha W5, Roland JV 1000 and Roland JV80. I have a midi 2x2, a midi 1x1 and 1x1 on the MIDI interface. But to get Logic to know which sound, what bank! and device was a nightmare. Only the W5 is loaded with 10's of sounds. But to get the playing or midi score to get to the right synth, right sound/bank, play through headphones and being able to record the audio from them into Logic it is rocket science.
I might be able to change sound but to change bank I have no idea. It is possible to Logic did that in the 90's. I could have a couple of sounds from one device, a couple from another and some from a third multitimbral but it's so hard to get MIDI and audio.
Years ago, for life performance I used Cakewalk to dump control messages just to setup my audio devices for sounds, levels, patches and what not. I had a bunch of songs saved on Cakewalk, but with nothing but the control messages. Would you kindly cover that topic? Cheers! :)
Surely there's no "best" way to do it.
I'm thinking that if you output your audio from the pc into the individual outputs on the audio interface you're using and then into their own individual channels on your mixing desk alongside any outputs from your external equipment, you get to use the unique characteristics of whatever mixing desk you're using. EQ, Compressors etc?
Thanks very much! Crystal clear.
I am so grateful for all your videos and the time you so generously put into educating me and every body who waits patiently for your newest release. I am thinking of buying a JV-1080 and a Roland SH-32 from a friend and am hoping to use it with an old Roland XP-50 with Logic pro X. This is helpful. I hope you will do more on this topic. For instance, how can I use a XP-50 synth as a midi controller or can I?
Yes you could use any synth with midi as the master keyboard. If you also want that synth to play it's own internal sounds as part of the composition then there's a further technique required to set that up, which i should have included in this video. Now i'll have to make a part-2 video dammit :)
All through the 90s and early 2000s I did tons of midi programing within Cubase/Logic and had pretty decent Midi/USB interface (Motu) and ATARI earlier before that. The midi was super tight and everything was monitored and recorded through the mixing desk and captured to DAT etc.
USB/MIDI is nothing like before, have tried tons of the newer stuff(iconnetivity, etc), they all have midi latency,. I don't like recording digital audio into DAW but do you think I could use the set up you have above to have zero latency of Midi, Audio playback because the DAW would correct the any delay and we could print audio to the DAW or capture the left and right signal out from DAW to another external recorder, DAT, Tape etc. Will also the Metronome with the DAW be in sync with the Monitoring of all the external instruments. Just trying to have alternate possibilities of recording. Thank You!!
I would turn down the sample/bit rate from around the usual 512 to 128-192
You are right. There will be latency once the data from the midi keyboard is processed by the DAW and is sent to the hardware unit.
Thank you for this video. I had no idea how to add my Yamaha DGX 660... I am going to give this a try.
You can use the DGX 660 as your master keyboard& use it's internal sounds at the same time , but when you are playing the same keyboard you also want the DAW to record & trigger, you turn Local Control OFF... that way, the notes when you play go to the DAW MIDI track, pass THRU and back to the keyboard to trigger whatever patch is on whatever channel you're playing.
@@dancetech thank you. You are amazing 👌🏼💯😎
i really don't get it.. why open 8 audio tracks in the daw ...and even 2:02 diagram ... its very confusing
Every external device should have it's own audio track in the DAW. Think of the DAW as a mixer
Excellent video! Thanks for that!
Wow, I've been doing it wrong this whole time. Thanks my dude!
I'm trying to get the first setup you mentioned. I think that was a picture of the mixer I got, Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK....I don't like mixing in the DAW, I like sliding faders a moving knobs... I'm trying to get my sync/click set up so everyone knows the tempo.
Hello Again. Thanks for this tutorial. It has been years since I had my 24 track analogue studio. When you mention out from the audio interface, you didn't mention IN to the hardware. Is it OUT to IN or OUT to OUT please. I also suspect that if it is out from the Audio interface to the IN of the synth, it id OUT from the synth to the in of the next synth. Is that correct?
Thanks. I still wonder about midi thru
Fantastic m8,very well explained,cheers👏👍
In a word...BRILLIANT. Definitely stated already, FINALLY a vid that answers my questions. Peace...Netm8kr
PS...I can't find midi channel assign in Garageband??
You’ve just answered so many questions i’ve been searching for. The diagrams and the way you explain is absolutely perfect for us beginners, thank you for all this valuable information.
Quick question, is that midi out from the audio interface to midi in or thru on the synth, bassline ect?
The MIDI OUT from the DAW/Computer goes into the MIDI IN of all external hardware. You can either connect them up in series using MIDI THRU on each unit if it has that socket (so IN to the first unit, THRU from that to the IN of the next unit etc), but it is far better to use a MIDI distribution THRU Box and bring the DAW MIDI into that and then send THRU from that box to all hardware units on their own MIDI cable, makes life easier.
@@dancetech Thank you so much for the quick response and for explaining that the way you did, i’m so glad i found your channel! All my hardware has MIDI thru and usb. Was thinking about getting the Kenton MIDI Thru 12, would that be ok? And yeah i can see just how beneficial it would be. Thanks again 👍
@@HatchetHarry yeah, Kenton have been doing that stuff since dinosaurs ruled the earth, cant go wrong with their boxes👍
@@dancetech Glad to know i’m on the right path, just noticed some of my hardware doesn’t have a THRU, what would i do then? Is this where the daisy chain comes into play or is it something else completely?
Great video! Thank you.
A lot of interfaces do not come with 5pin midi out. What is the set up if your audio interface does not have a midi port?Thanks in advance
you'd have to get a usb midi in/out hub
@@dancetech just a midi thru or also a midi merge? Thanks!
@@soundsofthenewberlin well if you want to play the external hardware midi kit from a usb master key board then you have usb master keyboard sending midi IN to the DAW via usb, then midi OUT to the hardware units is handled by a midi usb hub, ideally with as many MIDI ports as you have midi items (once port for each midi item)👍
@@dancetech Thanks for the time and the guidance! I appreciate it a lot :)
@@soundsofthenewberlin 👍
Thank you! I’m completely new to this and this may be a dumb question but I don’t know and you probably do, so here it goes: If I want to run a sample through some external hardware is there a way to loop that sample of the DAW through the hardware back into the DAW, or do I need a hardware sampler for this? Thank you!
Thanks ! This video helps me a lot ! I'd just one question : do I need a Midi Thru case if I want to send different midi infos to my external hardwares or can I just connect them like a chain ? Thanks for your answer, keep going! :)
you can connect them like a chain, assuming they have enough THRU sockets on them, but tbh it's better to have a MIDI distribution box if you have a few bits of gear.
@@dancetech Thanks mate
Learned something new today
Midi out to each hardware units? A daisy chain? Because I only see one output.
yup
great video 2 things I have a question about.. midi so when you want to play midi in how do you assign the correct unit would the first one literally be midi 1 then next one 2 so on? and how would you use a midi interface in this set up.. and also how would you add fx units onto the audio channels/hardware units so say I was playing the supernova in this set up and wanted to add a delay hardware unit fx onto the supernova how do I do that? thanks in advance
Great video, i'm building a new studio at the moment and was wondering, with the line inputs for instance from the casio and the rack below, are those 2 inputs mono?
Great video! I'm still doubting whether to go for the mixer or interface approach.. I recently acquired quite a few vintage hardware synths and 8 ports simply is not enough :( There's a JV-1080, Korg M1R, Yamaha TX81Z, Roland U-220, Roland MKS-50, Roland TR8-S, Roland JP-8080, Korg Minilogue XD and a Behringer TD-03 in the collection. Some/most of those should probably be connected in stereo I reckon. The MIDI connections are clear, but how should I go about connecting up the audio outs? Thanks for any feedback!
well the problem is how many of those units do you want to connect at once. the roland drumbox alone has 8 outs. The cheapest solutions will yield 16 physical line inputs so you can route a max 16 hardware OUTputs IN to your DAW at the same time.
So either a USB equipped mixer which gives 16 USB channels to your DAW or the behringer UMC1820 audio interface with the Behringer ADA8200 ADAT rack added will give you 16 physical IN's.
Above 16 channels your best best is the LIVE PA racks from the likes of Mackie, Behringer, Presonus, Soundcraft etc.
The Mackie DL32R stage rack will give you 32 channels Inputs to your DAW, a BIG channel count, but costs about £1400-£1600 GBP.
The Mackie DL32S stage rack will give you 32 channels Inputs to your DAW, a BIG channel count, and this cheaper version cost about £800 GBP.
The Behringer XR18 stage rack gives 18 inputs to the DAW for just over £500 GBP
The Soundcraft Ui24 stage rack will give you 24 channels to the DAW but costs about £750 GBP
Zoom LiveTrak L-20R gives 20 channels to the DAW for around £600 GBP
Presonus StudioLive Series III 16R, 24R or 32R give 16, 24 or 32 channels via USB to your DAW plus main stereo mix (sum of all inputs) and ghey cost around £950, £1200 & £1400 respectively
Other options would be the Mackie ONYX USB mixers, but the biggest, the Onyx16 still only gives you 18 channels to the DAW, and again it costs more than the Behringer UMC1820 & ADA8200 ADAT rack combination.
Do you see where this is going?
The other option is a traditional mixer with 4 or 8 buses or direct outs feeding a tradition 8 input USB audio interface, which would allow you to monitor the external hardware and DAW audio together on the mixer and route any items to record as and when you need to record them either via direct outs on their channels or by routing them to busses, but unless the mixer has built in FX your external midi kit will be dry with no FX. The solution to that is to get a mixer with 4 or much rarer 8 buses with built in FX, the cheapest of which would be something like the old Behringer sx2442fx mixer or something similar which is current from companies like Behringer, mackie, yamaha, soundcraft, zoom etc.
so the bottom line is, if you want A LOT of midi kit outputs routed to your DAW at the same time, the solution is costly when you go above 16 physical DAW inputs.
@@dancetech Many thanks for your detailed feedback, much appreciated! :)
👍 actually, thanks for the suggestion, because i think i'm going to do a video on this topic because there is really no video out there which makes all this clear. cheers
@@dancetech Exactly .. this is the first video I've encountered that explains it clearly.. Perhaps one more thought - let's assume I want to use a mixer's (like a Mackie for example) overdrive on a kick drum channel, but I only have an 8 channel Mackie. But 8 channels won't be enough in my setup... I don't suppose you could daisy chain mixers? And sorry if that's a really stupid thing to ask but I'm new to hardware setups ;)
And a final thing .. you mentioned 16 channels or more over USB to the DAW, meaning you wouldn't use the mixer's main outputs going into the audio interface?
yeah you can daisy chain mixers, it's not really recommended, but you send the main out from one to 2 inputs on the other in in via a couple of aux returns, but obviously things like SOLO & Aux sends will only work per mixer, not across both unless you start to use stuff like a patchbay to sum sends before they hit rack fx.
Your Q2. If you send a load of hardware to a mixer and then send the final stereo out of the mixer to the DAW, yes, you get the sum of all the hardware mixed to stereo on a stereo track/channel of the DAW... you can monitor that way, and then when it comes time to mix you can mute all but one hardware unit on the mixer, record it to the audio track, make a new audio track, un-mute the next hardware channel/s & record that hardware unit... and go through the hardware units one by one, recording each unit by itself to audio, then mix internal adding fx etc.
The beauty of sending hardware IN to the DAW via audio interface inputs is that you can add fx in the DAW mixer & when you bounce them to audio they will sound identical to how you set them up in the DAW mix cos the same fx will be on their channels.
If you go down the mixer route each bit of hardware has no FX, unless you have mixer fx built into the mixer to add or you use external hardware fx.. and even then, when you bounce them to audio tracks, unless you bounce the fx too then once bounced they sound different without the fx from the board.
i'm going for a big rebuild of my room here soon after which i'll have a full hardware setup again with mixer, midi hardware & rack fx and daw & then i will start to make videos on all this.
cheers
I have a query I hope you can help with.
I have 6 external synths / drum machines but would also like to add my mixer to how you have set up in the video.
I have a Mackie 1402 VLZ4 mixer (and a Behringer UMC1820 interface which arrived today!)
I’d like the mixer involved to try and get away from the computer as much.
Thanks in advance - absolute belter of a video btw!
Hi, great video. I’m looking to get a few bits of hardware starting with the Proteus 2000. Only one thing I’m confused about. If I connect my Proteus via midi to my audio interface how would I then connect another piece of hardware? Is it chained via the ‘thru’ midi port on the Proteus and into a line on the audio interface?
dont confuse midi & audio... you connect the MIDI OUT of the audio interface (or from a separate USB Midi port device) and connect to your MIDI hardware via IN & THRU sockets on each device or via a MIDI distribution THRU box with each THRU output being connected to the MIDi Input of each bit of hardware... the audio is completely unrelated & always the same, simply connect the OUTPUTS of the hardware devices to the INPUTS of the audio interface.
Finnally if you want to actually play any bit of midi hardware from a master keyboard, that needs to be connected to the DAW MIDI INPUT.... you leave the master keyboard set to channel 1... select sa mdi track in the DAW and assign that track to the midi channel fo the external device you wish to play & record midi notes & data for.... the dAW midi channel will re-channelise the incoming midi from the master keyboard, sending it back OUT of the daw to your external midi chain on whatever channel the daw midi track is set to
then obviously each bit of external gear needs to be on a different midi channel
When using multi-timbrel midi devices like the Proteus you plan to get then obviously you can assign different patches to midi channels inside that device... just make sure no other bit of external midi kit you add to the chain uses any of the channels utilised by the Proteus (or any other multi-timbrel device)
@@dancetechthank you very much that makes absolute sense now. I’ve go my proteus on the way so when I get my next bit of kit I’ll know what to do in order to get it all working. Keep up the excellent videos please 🙌🏻
@@louiehewitt6514 cool, any questions, just ask 👍
How would Integrated my Allen & Heath GS3 Inline Pult in your case, to get the possibility for hands on the mixer? Would be great if you can helf with ideas Chris
Finally..I get the inputs..for my outputs! So..thank you veeeeeery much for this!
is it possible to use a mixer that have no usb conection but midi in/out/thru (5pin) and plug it to a soundcard like Focusrite that also have in and out conection and control a virtual mixer of a DAW ? I mean that if i use the midi learn protocol and assign 1 real fader to the virtual one via midi in an out conection, does the virtual mixer react ?
yes, that device is called a DAW CONTROLLER. the cheapest is the behringer bcf2000
Hey! nice video! I am planning to buy a behringer Model D synth. My only question is, does a Model D Synth control VSTi? I know it might be a wrong question here but any idea!?
Awesome! Thanks a lot! How would I go about if I simply want to jam with hardware synths, drum machines and effects etc. but be able to record each instrument channel individually? Would I use the same setup?
Yup, you most likely would.
Great videos mate, keep it up, however what if someone has ONLY a small mixer, a basic 2ch interface, And very little money?
in that scenario, you'd send all hardware to the mixer, send the mixer L/R OUT in to the daw input L/R, then compose your external midi parts. To record each external bit of kit to the daw, you'd mute any other mixer channels which are active, record that bit of midi kit to an audio track in the daw, add fx & eq etc in the daw to that newly recorded audio track & carry on like that, recording each item of midi kit one by one to audio tracks and then mixing those stems in with the onboard daw sounds. Obviously any external midi kit running on the mixer will have no fx unless the mixer has fx built in or the synth has built in fx, or you have external hardware fx, but tbh a cheap old s/h midiverb type of unit would get you delay & reverb ok, you could even use guitar fx pedals just to get some basic reverb & delay
@@dancetech I know it may be too much to ask, but could you do a short video of that please? Thanks mate, great stuff.
yes, but ideally i want to wait until i have rebuilt my work room. When that is done i'll have a mixer, 8 track & lost of hardware setup again & I will be doing lots of hardware & DAW tutorials 👍
Thank you
You know the video will be good the moment you hear his British accent
Can you daisy chain 4 peices of gear or do you need a midi splitter when using that many peices of gear?
yes if they all have a midi trhu
Thank you bro
Thank you for this but I have a question… i’m running my guitar and base guitar through an effects processor and then from there I’m going line in to my audio interface… I also have other effect pedals i’m going to add in a chain… All of these have Midi and I would like all of the effects petals and all of my synthesizers and my drum machine to be clocks synced to Ableton using ableton as the master clock.
Any idea how to accomplish this?
Thank you again for the video. It was very helpful
Do i only need 1 out input?
Inspiring.
yeah, but some of my lush combi patches on my modules use up to 16 midi channels for one patch! what then?
Set the door external midi track to output on all channels. Obviously you will need to mute any other external hardware units.
@@dancetech hello , i need help i have TG 77 yamaha rack and i buy it some DX electric piano patch, and i need to send the patch to TG 77 witch midi conections , i start to download SY manager 5 and folow the instructions ,but i dont now have to connect my synth rack ,when i connect in modul write missing connection what is wrong? please help me
@@marcusbernhardt7807 sorry, I dunno, but purchases of
I have a question. I have a synth that has 8 midi channels already. For each of the 4 analog parts and for the 4 digital parts. And other synths that have also 2-4 channels. So I run out of 16 midi channels on a bus. How do you go about recording those and how can you extend midi outputs in the best way? There is the MOTU but I’m not sure it solves my problem of having my daw or controller keyboard play one of the assigned synthesizer with its midi channels.
well you'd have to have more dedicated midi out buses: try reading & asking here: www.midi.org/forum/144-how-to-connect-and-manage-a-massive-collection-of-midi-hardware
once such a setup is created, like as usual you always play the required midi unit from the laster keyboard THRU the DAW track assigned to it which both routes the midi TO the required unit & allows recording of the played parts to the required track of course
Most excellent.
Very helpful, thanks. I have two external synths (one with a keyboard and one without), and a midi controller. Both synths can route midi to and from the DAW via USB. So I think I can skip the midi daisy chain?
Yes, just connect them directly
Are you daisy chaining the midi between the external hardwares? How is it possible to connect if there’s only one available midi port going out from your audio interface?
You use something like this: kentonuk.com/product/thru-5/
Hi 👋 do I need a midi thru box if my hardware only as in and out …
yes if you don't have enough units with midi THRU.
Great video! But say you have the Behringer RD-8 drum machine and want to record using the 11 individual outputs? I have the PreSonus Studio 1810c interface and it doesn't have enough outputs. Then what? I also have the Drumbrute Impact and don't even know how to record using it, in Studio One. I have to get on it!
add a cheap behringer adat interface & you get 8 more inputs - 159 euros!
but, you can't trigger a synth/machine if any of the other instruments in the chain prior are turned off??
if you are daisy chaining MIDI then either dont turn them off or use a MIDI THRU distribution box
how do i incorporate an analogue mixer to the set up you just shown ?
I'll be doing a video on that soon (servicing a couple of mixers right now), it's a bit hard to explain all the possible variations in a message. tell me EXACTLY what you want to do.
@@dancetech basically I want to have my synths/beat machines etc. connected to both mixer and daw with a ability to record the mix going through the mixer. I want to also have the ability to jam with the synths without daw and then ability to quickly switch to working with them on daw ( separated into channels etc, but also with usb functionality like lets say with my elektron analog rytm i would wanna be able to also separate different drums into sub channels in daw etc.) but still going through the mixer with the ability to record the mix post mixer... i dont even know what im talkina about xD
@@peraltazimmerman lol... so you want to have your hardware outputs running thru the mixer channels and at anytime be able to have them routed to DAW tracks individually. ok, but to do that you also will need to monitor the DAW audio so you can hear the external kit & DAW audio all together
so basically you setup the mixer - all hardware outs route to channels - you can mix that together to the main L/R stereo mix bus
if you want to have a mixer channel sent to a DAW track to record: send the mixer channel OUT via a GROUP OUT to the DAW MONO input - route the DAW L/R OUT to a stereo mixer channel or send the channel OUT from the mixer via a Direct OUT - Then take the channel sending TO the DAW & switch it OUT of the mixer's main L/R Mix Bus and monitor 'Off Tape' coming back from the DAW doing a round trip with the DAW track set to MONITOR so the signal passes THRU the DAW and back to the mixer via the DAW L/R OUT channels - you have to do it that way or you get a loop
A mixer with 2 groups - this limits you to sending a max 2 feeds to the DAW
A mixer with 4 groups - this limits you to sending a max 4 feeds to the DAW
A mixer with direct outs (assuming the mixer has a minimum 8 channels) - you are limited by how many inputs your DAW has - direct outs send to DAW inputs
@@dancetech thanks for an awesome reply, i will try my best. Keep up the good work, your videos are very helpful !
Thanx for posting the video, i have a question: Is it possible when i connect midi in from my keyboard to out on my daw 1 , the out from keyboard to the in from my daw 1 , to use the thru from my keyboard and connect it to the midi in from another daw 2 ? in other words, can i use 1 keyboard to send midi to 2 daws ?
Many thanks 🎉😂❤
Would there be any latency issues if you would add to this setup more io, hardware processors like a reverb/delay, dbx compressor, pultecs and masterbus comp.
Theoretical situation u have kick and snare sample in the s950 goin in on separate channels on the interface. You want to add an eq plug in daw on and also process them through a hardware reverb via send. After that send them out to a dbx comp then back in to the daw. Next create a drumgroup of them into a drum bus and send that into a pultec eq. And lastly have hardware sterecomp insert on the master channel.
All of this processing would be happning in real time in a jamming like situation where the kick and snare would be coming straight out of the 950 meaning the signals would not be prerecorded to daw.
All of my production is done otb with hardware sequencers and samplers, and im asking this cause i would like to know if its possible to create a ”final mix” with a hardware setup like thiw before hitting record on daw? The interface would function more like a analog mixer in this case.
What kind of latency issues can you expect from a situation like this? Would a setup like this only cause headache and i would just be better of using a mixer? However, I would like to add that preferably i want avoid using a mixer if i can since the mixers i can afford might not be that great.
Cheers!
in a word, no.i wouldn't do that, you would be combining latency, and without getting out a pencil and paper and drawing the plot diagram of what you describe to check, there could be loop feedback issues with send/returns - plus you'd end up with almost no actual inputs available as so many would be occupied with send/return & bus send/return duties negating the entire point of the technique which is to use inputs as inputs.
latency issues? Just sending out and back from a h/w reverb would add another bunch of ms delay to the reverb return, not a massive issue with time-based fx like delay/reverb, but still depending on the reverb program chosen it might sound weird with additional pre-delay added... and then there'd be the nightmare of printing everything to final record, and delays in signals which then would have to be re-aligned manually
you'd be better off getting a mixer and using that in combination with an interface - and that brings in different techniques which we'll be making example videos about when the new space is setup here with a full outboard hardware + mixer + DAW setup. 👍
@@dancetech yeah that was what i was afraid of! Thanks for the help!
RE: The external Midi devices. Are these being Chained, Out to Out to Out? And then, I get to, Oops, My Dreadbox Nymphes, which is USB. Nymphes works, has a MONO OUT only and is recognized by Cubase; it just doesn't have the DIN MIDI. And then, finally, a bit puzzled as to, for example, HOW I would feed a VST synth like Zebra2 into my ZOOM Multi Stomp, in order to apply the zoom FX to the synth. In short, I've got 4 desktop synths (a fifth coming) and it seems like I'll be doing a lot of Connecting, Disconnecting, Reconnecting to record them then set them aside when not in use. Sometimes I think I maybe should have picked Boardgames Collector as my hobby.
no you cant daisy chain MIDI via OUT connectors, only THRU (unless the synth has an internal switch to switch the OUT socket to THRU function). For USB synths simply connect them up and assign the midi track designated to that synth to that usb midi out, you can still route the audio OUT from that synth as shown.
Sending a VST synth audio OUT and through external fx and back into the mix is another subject. The routing is obvious: use a spare audio out which is not part of the main L/R OUT monitor chain & send the synth out into the fx unit & back in again via a spare designated audio interface audio INPUT socket, but the issue there is latency, which will be more than triggering via an external hardware synth via midi and routing it's audio IN to the DAW mix, cos it's a round trip in this case.. OUt from the vst synth thru the fx unit and back In to the daw. But with very low buffers set on the audio interface it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
@@dancetech Great info! RE: your paragraph 2. I think if I read and reread...and then have someone read it aloud whilst I sleep, it's gonna sink in and become clear. I have a direct support link to a guy at iConnnectivity. My audio interface is the Audio4+. While it has a LOT of tricks up its sleeve, it has fewer Inputs than the one you're using. I'm sure much will translate, I'm sure. I simply haven't contacted my iConnect guy since I had the brain spasm which caused me to acquire a bunch of desktop synths. Anyway, I will share the info you've provided with him. HE will say, sure....all that's right, so what's the prob? He'll then open his utensils drawer and spoon feed me a bit. Thanks!!
@@watchaddicts1213 lol, maybe get more inputs.. did you see this video? th-cam.com/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/w-d-xo.html - the soundcraft unit btw also comes in a 12 channel version (Ui12) which is really cheap, like 300 ish
Sweet, can you also control the synths back - so change the loops and (play them)by changing the recorded midi tracks, launching and muting (for live work) patterns ?
if midi is reaching any hardware unit you can send whatever control you want
i have mixer with 5 input and 2 xlr min out and 2 aux out and i have the ur44c have only 6 input and 4 output how how i can do it right
Lovely!
this is exactly what i do, but with 2 identical setups. 2 computers, 2 8 channel recorders, one in slave mode thru optical. the second computer serves as an instrument, second to the master computer.