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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- Integrating hardware MIDI synths, samplers & drum machines etc into a computer music studio. You don't need a mixer. This is how to setup your computer DAW (Cubase, Logic, Pro-Tools etc) & External MIDI hardware studio using any 8 Line-input audio interface.
If you do go with this technique, here's solutions to get LOTS of inputs into your DAW:
• How to get LOTS of inp...
It's truly surprising how few people discuss the issue of connection and how the DAW model works. Thanks!
Brilliant! Both the diagrams and the lecture are just so good. Taking a wild guess, I'd say that 90% or so of creators' Explainer Videos assume far too much of the beginner [would be] home studio artist.
thankyou
Finally a clear, concise explanation of how to step up a computer DAW with my gear.
This is really good and clear, thank you. A few comments.
1. The problem with AU inputs is that you are quickly running out of them. You want to add a guitar? You have another drum machine? External effects? Soft Synths from an Ipad? There are never enough inputs on an Audio Interface if you start going hybrid and adding more gear. Yes, you can use digital inputs and yes there are preamp extensions. But all of that adds costs and complexity.
2.The nice thing about hardware is that you can make music away from your computer. I like my DAW and all the capabilities it gives me. But whenever I launch my DAW I am first confronted with myriads of updates and upgrades. Whenever I power on my hardware I make music. So if you want to do both, work independently from your computer as well as integrate everything in your DAW, adding a hardware mixer I feel is the best option. Especialy since these days mixers also come with an USB audio interface.
But clearly, the approach you are describing is the most economical one for peps that use a limited number of hardware instruments and will always jam, mix and master with a DAW.
I have to say ... this is probably the best, simple, and most concise explanation of basic set up I've ever seen - fantastico!! Thank you!!
cheers mate.
Thank you, been trying to figure out exactly how to do this lately, and surprisingly it's not easy to find any clear info for a "dummie". This was spot on. Thanks again.
Thought i'd add this from the audio interface roundup as a video in it's own right - people might need this as a topic
thank you for your time
Is this making 1 of the 2 signals "out of phase".? I am really Missing something here in combining 2 separate signals from 2 devices into a "Y" to save 1 space into the interface or patch bay.
@@zazoomatt mate, keep your replies int he same thread.
yes... thanks so much for your time & efforts here.
Another useful video. I like your style of presentation and you "sound" like you know your stuff. I'm a novice home studio guy looking for a simple and effective multitrack system with midi integration. I'm hoping the Behringer U-phoria 1820 will work with my MPC ONE some cheap synths and a humble eurorack modular system, and also an oldish windows 10 laptop.
Finally a video that's addressed most of my questions, thank you!
Absolutely. Thank for being so clear and concise
I would recommend a few things, since your already at this point. :) midi interface would be good, a hub (i use thunderbolt) which allows even allows additional midi interfaces as you expand! Oh and a mixer! These things can allow you to have less than 8 inputs or use inputs for other things. The mixers give you individual settings and eq’s. The Midi interface allows each piece to be controlled via the master board, and the hub is just great for expansion. I actually run 15 synths, 2 drum machines, 1 sampler drum machine, and one sampler with two computers midi networked! I have two interfaces with more inputs and out puts all sync’d together with the option to make either computer the master. One computer is a imac and the other is a macbook pro, and for the longest time i did not realize i could midi network the two so i would find myself going back n forth for different stuff. Not tho, its one big super music making machine! Just my two cents
Greetings,
I am trying to do just that! I used to have a home studio in the early 90s when MIDI was still quite new, now things have changed, some for better, some for worse.
I want to use my Korg Pa3X 's internal sequencer(assigning patches and vocal harmonies to midi tracks 1-16) and my Alesis drum machine for selecting patches in my DAW(Cubase). I have two midi interfaces, an M-Audio M-Track and a
Volt 2. (2 Ins and 2 Outs each)
Also, I have Cubasis 3.4 on my iPad which I want to integrate into my workflow.
I've bought a new Yamaha MG-XU mixer with USB connectivity.
The audio setup is a Rockville subwoofer going into a pair of Yamaha HS5.
I have a Mackee Thump which I want to use for alternative mono sound while mixing.
I would gladly pay you via Venmo, Zelle, or Apple Pay, if you could help me set it up correctly.
You can contact me by replying to this message, or find me on Facebook under James Bastani (Jamshid). Thanks in advance!
This is just what I’ve been looking for. Thank you.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. This setup is exactly what I was looking for, and the clarity, i.e., graphics, animation, and audio quality, is greatly appreciated.
Best,
Great video! This is nice if your synths have a midi THRU port; otherwise you can't just chain them as you show but you need to use a midi thru box.
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for with my new Scarlette 18i20. I’m running my guitar direct in and then a DI box to simultaneously record a clean signal on track two- but was struggling on where to run the signal out to from my Midi Controller/Sampler/Fader and a drum machine. I then want to run my Guitar Pedals as a separate track that I can send audio out to- this made everything a lot clearer!
Thank you!
Finally, someone that explains it in such a way that my dumb brain can understand! Thank you so much!
@dancetech I've been waiting since yesterday for my MOTU 4x4 Audio Interface to arrive via crappy UPS when I accidentally came upon your very helpful video explaining exactly how to use it with my two keyboards and Cubase as soon as I unbox it. With your help, I won't even need to read whatever instructions are included with it. Thanks so much for a very simple and succinct tutorial.
And you can Have a MIDI controller mapped to your DAWs mixer so you get The tactility of a hardware mixer combined with The benefits of a vst mixer.
👌☑️
mmm... tactility.
Will I have to do this every time I open Logic or does it remember?
Best video I’ve seen explaining this yet! Thanks a million!
My setup:
-Mac Studio
-Yamaha P-35
-Yamaha KX88
-Prophet Rev 2
-Yamaha DX7
-Mic
-Acoustic guitar/Acoustic guitar/Ukulele
You create a project & load that with the settings all ready to go
this was incredibly helpful. simplifying this stuff dissolves the fear impulse in me that seems to be on some quest to thwart my creative efforts. nasty little dragon being slayed in real time... yaaaay!!
same. found this video really helped me understand it.
Of all the Logic videos I've watched yours are the most understandable. Now I have a huge request. I just purchased a Soundcraft 22MTK, which to me is the ultimate hybrid mixer. I'm having problems just trying to make everything make sense, especially with logic. I know eventually by pushing all the buttons and swearing a great deal I would be able to figure it out. But I was hoping if you had both time and the desire, you could do a series on this mixer. This mixer is truly the best of both worlds. I would greatly appreciate it. Please keep up the great work you do. It has helped me a ton.
It's nothing to do with Logic, this mixer would work the same with any DAW. The issue is, how do you plan to use it? what are you doing? Recording a band using multiple microphones? Routing lot's of external midi hardware? How are you planning to use it?
@@dancetech I am recording a band . I'm just very new to the whole process of recording especially hybrid mixing,
well the way I would use it is: plug the mics in to channels, set the gain, and then route to DAW track, then switch all Mic channels to USB so you are listening to the RETURN FROM THE DAW track on each channel. That's the traditional multitrack method.
@@dancetech I'll give it a try. Thanks for the response, it is greatly appreciated.
This is good foundation for hardware to daw music production. This is where you start and the possibilities from here is limited by you budget and imagination.
I've done a bit of that. I have a Yamaha W5, Roland JV 1000 and Roland JV80. I have a midi 2x2, a midi 1x1 and 1x1 on the MIDI interface. But to get Logic to know which sound, what bank! and device was a nightmare. Only the W5 is loaded with 10's of sounds. But to get the playing or midi score to get to the right synth, right sound/bank, play through headphones and being able to record the audio from them into Logic it is rocket science.
I might be able to change sound but to change bank I have no idea. It is possible to Logic did that in the 90's. I could have a couple of sounds from one device, a couple from another and some from a third multitimbral but it's so hard to get MIDI and audio.
thank you i was needing to hear this!! and now I'm researching about MIDI splitters
Surely there's no "best" way to do it.
I'm thinking that if you output your audio from the pc into the individual outputs on the audio interface you're using and then into their own individual channels on your mixing desk alongside any outputs from your external equipment, you get to use the unique characteristics of whatever mixing desk you're using. EQ, Compressors etc?
Unless you have a mixer with multitracking out. Btw your tutorial, make a song in Logic, knocking on heavens door was my first ever music production tutorial, many years ago! Much respect!!
I have the exact set up, I'm now in the process of getting a midi clock and jam with hardware synths while record it all via DAW. Struggling with the configuration at the moment
Great great video!;) I just have to make a comment on this. Cos for many years I have liked to make music with and external mixer but never got it to work right I could play midi but not record it properly audio. I saw this video and thought I give it a shot so I brought a 1824c. I had big problems to get it working but on my way to give up. This morning I got my sound out from my external synth. I had created a midi track in Pro Tools and recorded directly to an audiotrack in monitor mode. Just like you say I would be able to. I never tought of this metode but yes its a rally rally great way to do it. So I will say thank you so much for revealing this. Im so happy now thank you.
👍 cool
Another great tutorial lesson very helpful grateful this is keeping coming with it. Much needed
give thanks
1:45 probably should point out that you want a MIDI Thru box to connect your hardware to the DAW. Each piece of hardware will be auto assigned a MIDI channel and samplers will usually get 10 or so MIDI channels for all the various individual sounds. Now most importantly I don't know what I'm talking about as I am learning this myself so may of just typed incorrect info. You should be able to assign the channels yourself and I've had the issue where after auto connecting some MIDI channels are a mix of different synths and even different patches not actually selected.
welcome to the wonderful world of MIDI hardware! 👍.. but no, hardware does not get auto-assigned a channel, you assign the channel manually (although some GM 'player' units might break that rule, but that's a whole other type of unit with a specific purpose), additionally some multi-timbrel instruments might assign 16 patch 'slots' to channels 1-16 ascending... Yes, correct, it is always better and easier to have a midi THRU distribution box, which makes things much easier than daisy-chaining MIDI THRU each hardware unit
great overview, couple of things ......
- what about if we have some hardware reverbs we want to use as sends on each channel of the DAW ?
- what is a midi interface used for? such as the rack midi interfaces with tonnes of midi ports at the back of the units ?
Best video on this subject I have found! Thanks for this explanation.
This was a really useful video as I had been running different ways of doing this through my head for a while and couldn't make my mind up as to which was the best way to do it.
Thanks
thanks. If you need more than 8 physical inputs, this might be useful: th-cam.com/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/w-d-xo.html
@@dancetech Im sorry to say Im not that rich hahah thank you anyway
@@NailBombEnjoyer about 320 quid for the cheapest 16 input solution. 👍
Great review, overall very informative with a clear explanation.
You are a God send. Thank you thank you thank you for this tutorial. Clear, concise accurate and succinct. Thank you very very kindly. This is the best birthday surprise I got today. :)!!
incredibly helpful, excellent teaching.
Excellent setup / video DT !!
Your pushing it with 4 devices in the MIDI chain due to signal degradation. Typically you don't want more than 4 (total device count using the 5din connector) in your chain. Current MIDI implementation is 40 years old and doesn't scale very well. (MIDI 2.0 is out, but not widely adopted yet)
The 2nd device in the chain (and throughout the rest of the chain), use MIDI THRU and not MIDI OUT. Additionally, each external MIDI device has a unique channel assigned (MIDI CH 1-16). Important details for those who are new to this. In doing this, each of your DAW MIDI tracks can choose whatever external device you want to use on that particular track.
Overall, the video is good in it's explanation and everything else rings true.....just a few details missing that might frustrate you!
it's just a picture to illustrate the concept, not an actual midi connection chart.
You get all the style points. thank you.
I'm trying to get the first setup you mentioned. I think that was a picture of the mixer I got, Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK....I don't like mixing in the DAW, I like sliding faders a moving knobs... I'm trying to get my sync/click set up so everyone knows the tempo.
Good to know this and a very good presentation of whats normally a nightmare to even imagine
Thanks. I thought about trying to describe it in words only. very difficult to convey, hence the graphics.
wowwww, great video!!!!!! you answered all my questions
best explanation on youtube
I am so grateful for all your videos and the time you so generously put into educating me and every body who waits patiently for your newest release. I am thinking of buying a JV-1080 and a Roland SH-32 from a friend and am hoping to use it with an old Roland XP-50 with Logic pro X. This is helpful. I hope you will do more on this topic. For instance, how can I use a XP-50 synth as a midi controller or can I?
Yes you could use any synth with midi as the master keyboard. If you also want that synth to play it's own internal sounds as part of the composition then there's a further technique required to set that up, which i should have included in this video. Now i'll have to make a part-2 video dammit :)
Years ago, for life performance I used Cakewalk to dump control messages just to setup my audio devices for sounds, levels, patches and what not. I had a bunch of songs saved on Cakewalk, but with nothing but the control messages. Would you kindly cover that topic? Cheers! :)
this is exactly what i do, but with 2 identical setups. 2 computers, 2 8 channel recorders, one in slave mode thru optical. the second computer serves as an instrument, second to the master computer.
The conceptual part of this is very good and spot on. But I feel as though there is a few concerns here you are not addressing. Yes, you maybe accurate saying that there wont be noticeable latency. But when you now go to multitrack record from each of the line inputs (synths) and you sequence (send midi notes) from the DAW using MIDI or some other sequencer, the notes will not line up with the recorded audio. the tracks will be off. I was hoping you would talk about this in this video.
Good question. Well, as midi data has no delay worth talking about, any recorded audio will be "out" by exactly the same as any live recorded guitars, bass, vocals or any other mic recorded media would be relative to midi in any project. You can easily adjust for that though if you want by simply lining up the midi / audio and discovering the delay and then setting any tracks to a minus delay of a however many ticks. However, most DAW's like logic have a setting for record delay (in logic it is next to the audio interface assignment settings & buffer settings) which you can set from the get-go. once you know the delay of your system at whatever buffer size you work at (which would need to be low anyways 32 or 64 samples).
Thank you for this video. I had no idea how to add my Yamaha DGX 660... I am going to give this a try.
You can use the DGX 660 as your master keyboard& use it's internal sounds at the same time , but when you are playing the same keyboard you also want the DAW to record & trigger, you turn Local Control OFF... that way, the notes when you play go to the DAW MIDI track, pass THRU and back to the keyboard to trigger whatever patch is on whatever channel you're playing.
@@dancetech thank you. You are amazing 👌🏼💯😎
Thanks. I still wonder about midi thru
Hello Again. Thanks for this tutorial. It has been years since I had my 24 track analogue studio. When you mention out from the audio interface, you didn't mention IN to the hardware. Is it OUT to IN or OUT to OUT please. I also suspect that if it is out from the Audio interface to the IN of the synth, it id OUT from the synth to the in of the next synth. Is that correct?
Wow, I've been doing it wrong this whole time. Thanks my dude!
Thanks very much, very concise and to the point.
Straight to the point...excellent
You know the video will be good the moment you hear his British accent
Thank you kindly, straight to the point
I finally found a video that explains the connections.. what is midi? Mmmm who cares how do I connect it? … this video!!
i have logic pro 6 (daw)
akai s3000 xl (sampler)
yamaha pss 680 (midi keyboard)
primarily (for now) i just want to trigger the samples from the akai with my midi keyboard, and have that recorded down into the daw.
i have a 2x2 midi interface, but have forgotten how to connect that all up.
keyboard (out)
midi interface (in)
midi interface (out)
akai (in)?
i'm sure that's how it used to work when i was using the atari 1040 st running cubase 3.
In a word...BRILLIANT. Definitely stated already, FINALLY a vid that answers my questions. Peace...Netm8kr
great video 2 things I have a question about.. midi so when you want to play midi in how do you assign the correct unit would the first one literally be midi 1 then next one 2 so on? and how would you use a midi interface in this set up.. and also how would you add fx units onto the audio channels/hardware units so say I was playing the supernova in this set up and wanted to add a delay hardware unit fx onto the supernova how do I do that? thanks in advance
PS...I can't find midi channel assign in Garageband??
Audio is half the battle. Or a quarter. Midi hookup is the bigger question, imo.
I did explain it a bit in the video. You simply set the midi track you are playing/recording MIDI into to the same channel as the hardware item you want to trigger. But yes it needs to be explained much clearer for noobs. With that in mind I am completely rebuilding my TH-cam room right now with a full hardware setup, so i'll be doing more videos on this topic with actual working examples soon. 👍
I have Presonus audio interface with midi connection on the back.
Excellent video! Thanks for that!
Fantastic m8,very well explained,cheers👏👍
Finally..I get the inputs..for my outputs! So..thank you veeeeeery much for this!
Thanks very much! Crystal clear.
You’ve just answered so many questions i’ve been searching for. The diagrams and the way you explain is absolutely perfect for us beginners, thank you for all this valuable information.
Quick question, is that midi out from the audio interface to midi in or thru on the synth, bassline ect?
The MIDI OUT from the DAW/Computer goes into the MIDI IN of all external hardware. You can either connect them up in series using MIDI THRU on each unit if it has that socket (so IN to the first unit, THRU from that to the IN of the next unit etc), but it is far better to use a MIDI distribution THRU Box and bring the DAW MIDI into that and then send THRU from that box to all hardware units on their own MIDI cable, makes life easier.
@@dancetech Thank you so much for the quick response and for explaining that the way you did, i’m so glad i found your channel! All my hardware has MIDI thru and usb. Was thinking about getting the Kenton MIDI Thru 12, would that be ok? And yeah i can see just how beneficial it would be. Thanks again 👍
@@HatchetHarry yeah, Kenton have been doing that stuff since dinosaurs ruled the earth, cant go wrong with their boxes👍
@@dancetech Glad to know i’m on the right path, just noticed some of my hardware doesn’t have a THRU, what would i do then? Is this where the daisy chain comes into play or is it something else completely?
Thank you! I’m completely new to this and this may be a dumb question but I don’t know and you probably do, so here it goes: If I want to run a sample through some external hardware is there a way to loop that sample of the DAW through the hardware back into the DAW, or do I need a hardware sampler for this? Thank you!
For most beginners, an 8 input interface may be too expensive, therefore an ordinary mixer with stereo Outs maybe their most affordable solutions.
That offers no solution to the problem, you still need an audio interface, even a stereo i/o one to run the DAW ... Add a cheap mixer to that & you are at the same price/cost as a starter cheap Behringer 8 input interface (Behringer umc1820 = 195 euros)
digidesigns exist.. find an oldschool one!!
All through the 90s and early 2000s I did tons of midi programing within Cubase/Logic and had pretty decent Midi/USB interface (Motu) and ATARI earlier before that. The midi was super tight and everything was monitored and recorded through the mixing desk and captured to DAT etc.
USB/MIDI is nothing like before, have tried tons of the newer stuff(iconnetivity, etc), they all have midi latency,. I don't like recording digital audio into DAW but do you think I could use the set up you have above to have zero latency of Midi, Audio playback because the DAW would correct the any delay and we could print audio to the DAW or capture the left and right signal out from DAW to another external recorder, DAT, Tape etc. Will also the Metronome with the DAW be in sync with the Monitoring of all the external instruments. Just trying to have alternate possibilities of recording. Thank You!!
I would turn down the sample/bit rate from around the usual 512 to 128-192
You are right. There will be latency once the data from the midi keyboard is processed by the DAW and is sent to the hardware unit.
Learned something new today
You left out the huge problem people have with the delayed start a lot of hardware synths have when triggered by the DAW sequencer. Then you manually lining up the audio. Protools has a midi offset setting for each channel but for some reason just does nothing. This is the biggest issue. The ERM Multiclock has offset setting to set each device to its corresponding delay offset. But I haven’t bought on because it’s unclear if this value changes with buffers setting changes which would be a PITA.
you mean the latency when the hardware audio passes thru the system right? that only can be an issue if you are also using onboard generated sounds which are NOT passing thru combined with sounds from hardware passing thru, otherwise everything you hear has the exact same latency (if any) ... but if you set low audio sample buffers - like 32 or 64 samples - thru latency is so small it's not really perceptible & when you record the hardware & then play it back for final mix any THRU discrepancy goes away. Also at the end of the day all the daws have an auto time-align now so you can just switch that on to align all beats and also if required divisions to each other for all audio recordings, making them totally locked, & choose a reference master track for them all to sync to ... Logic does that with FLEX & Groove track for example.
I have been doing this for years but am now realizing that I cannot use Quantize features that midi recording offers to fix or align timing. I would actually like to use the internal sequencers of my MODX, Nautilus and Fantom 6 all synced together...trying to figure if that can be done
Yes it can, thats how we worked in the old days. Any hardware unit sequence can usually optionally clock as a slave to another sequencer, and the daw can slave to any external sequencer, so you choose one hardware unit as the master and slave the others & the daw to that
Thanks ! This video helps me a lot ! I'd just one question : do I need a Midi Thru case if I want to send different midi infos to my external hardwares or can I just connect them like a chain ? Thanks for your answer, keep going! :)
you can connect them like a chain, assuming they have enough THRU sockets on them, but tbh it's better to have a MIDI distribution box if you have a few bits of gear.
@@dancetech Thanks mate
Midi out to each hardware units? A daisy chain? Because I only see one output.
yup
RE: The external Midi devices. Are these being Chained, Out to Out to Out? And then, I get to, Oops, My Dreadbox Nymphes, which is USB. Nymphes works, has a MONO OUT only and is recognized by Cubase; it just doesn't have the DIN MIDI. And then, finally, a bit puzzled as to, for example, HOW I would feed a VST synth like Zebra2 into my ZOOM Multi Stomp, in order to apply the zoom FX to the synth. In short, I've got 4 desktop synths (a fifth coming) and it seems like I'll be doing a lot of Connecting, Disconnecting, Reconnecting to record them then set them aside when not in use. Sometimes I think I maybe should have picked Boardgames Collector as my hobby.
no you cant daisy chain MIDI via OUT connectors, only THRU (unless the synth has an internal switch to switch the OUT socket to THRU function). For USB synths simply connect them up and assign the midi track designated to that synth to that usb midi out, you can still route the audio OUT from that synth as shown.
Sending a VST synth audio OUT and through external fx and back into the mix is another subject. The routing is obvious: use a spare audio out which is not part of the main L/R OUT monitor chain & send the synth out into the fx unit & back in again via a spare designated audio interface audio INPUT socket, but the issue there is latency, which will be more than triggering via an external hardware synth via midi and routing it's audio IN to the DAW mix, cos it's a round trip in this case.. OUt from the vst synth thru the fx unit and back In to the daw. But with very low buffers set on the audio interface it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
@@dancetech Great info! RE: your paragraph 2. I think if I read and reread...and then have someone read it aloud whilst I sleep, it's gonna sink in and become clear. I have a direct support link to a guy at iConnnectivity. My audio interface is the Audio4+. While it has a LOT of tricks up its sleeve, it has fewer Inputs than the one you're using. I'm sure much will translate, I'm sure. I simply haven't contacted my iConnect guy since I had the brain spasm which caused me to acquire a bunch of desktop synths. Anyway, I will share the info you've provided with him. HE will say, sure....all that's right, so what's the prob? He'll then open his utensils drawer and spoon feed me a bit. Thanks!!
@@watchaddicts1213 lol, maybe get more inputs.. did you see this video? th-cam.com/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/w-d-xo.html - the soundcraft unit btw also comes in a 12 channel version (Ui12) which is really cheap, like 300 ish
How would Integrated my Allen & Heath GS3 Inline Pult in your case, to get the possibility for hands on the mixer? Would be great if you can helf with ideas Chris
Hi, great video. I’m looking to get a few bits of hardware starting with the Proteus 2000. Only one thing I’m confused about. If I connect my Proteus via midi to my audio interface how would I then connect another piece of hardware? Is it chained via the ‘thru’ midi port on the Proteus and into a line on the audio interface?
dont confuse midi & audio... you connect the MIDI OUT of the audio interface (or from a separate USB Midi port device) and connect to your MIDI hardware via IN & THRU sockets on each device or via a MIDI distribution THRU box with each THRU output being connected to the MIDi Input of each bit of hardware... the audio is completely unrelated & always the same, simply connect the OUTPUTS of the hardware devices to the INPUTS of the audio interface.
Finnally if you want to actually play any bit of midi hardware from a master keyboard, that needs to be connected to the DAW MIDI INPUT.... you leave the master keyboard set to channel 1... select sa mdi track in the DAW and assign that track to the midi channel fo the external device you wish to play & record midi notes & data for.... the dAW midi channel will re-channelise the incoming midi from the master keyboard, sending it back OUT of the daw to your external midi chain on whatever channel the daw midi track is set to
then obviously each bit of external gear needs to be on a different midi channel
When using multi-timbrel midi devices like the Proteus you plan to get then obviously you can assign different patches to midi channels inside that device... just make sure no other bit of external midi kit you add to the chain uses any of the channels utilised by the Proteus (or any other multi-timbrel device)
@@dancetechthank you very much that makes absolute sense now. I’ve go my proteus on the way so when I get my next bit of kit I’ll know what to do in order to get it all working. Keep up the excellent videos please 🙌🏻
@@louiehewitt6514 cool, any questions, just ask 👍
Can you daisy chain 4 peices of gear or do you need a midi splitter when using that many peices of gear?
yes if they all have a midi trhu
great and amazing video! thank you so much!
Thank you for this but I have a question… i’m running my guitar and base guitar through an effects processor and then from there I’m going line in to my audio interface… I also have other effect pedals i’m going to add in a chain… All of these have Midi and I would like all of the effects petals and all of my synthesizers and my drum machine to be clocks synced to Ableton using ableton as the master clock.
Any idea how to accomplish this?
Thank you again for the video. It was very helpful
but, you can't trigger a synth/machine if any of the other instruments in the chain prior are turned off??
if you are daisy chaining MIDI then either dont turn them off or use a MIDI THRU distribution box
yeah, but some of my lush combi patches on my modules use up to 16 midi channels for one patch! what then?
Set the door external midi track to output on all channels. Obviously you will need to mute any other external hardware units.
@@dancetech hello , i need help i have TG 77 yamaha rack and i buy it some DX electric piano patch, and i need to send the patch to TG 77 witch midi conections , i start to download SY manager 5 and folow the instructions ,but i dont now have to connect my synth rack ,when i connect in modul write missing connection what is wrong? please help me
@@marcusbernhardt7807 sorry, I dunno, but purchases of
Great videos mate, keep it up, however what if someone has ONLY a small mixer, a basic 2ch interface, And very little money?
in that scenario, you'd send all hardware to the mixer, send the mixer L/R OUT in to the daw input L/R, then compose your external midi parts. To record each external bit of kit to the daw, you'd mute any other mixer channels which are active, record that bit of midi kit to an audio track in the daw, add fx & eq etc in the daw to that newly recorded audio track & carry on like that, recording each item of midi kit one by one to audio tracks and then mixing those stems in with the onboard daw sounds. Obviously any external midi kit running on the mixer will have no fx unless the mixer has fx built in or the synth has built in fx, or you have external hardware fx, but tbh a cheap old s/h midiverb type of unit would get you delay & reverb ok, you could even use guitar fx pedals just to get some basic reverb & delay
@@dancetech I know it may be too much to ask, but could you do a short video of that please? Thanks mate, great stuff.
yes, but ideally i want to wait until i have rebuilt my work room. When that is done i'll have a mixer, 8 track & lost of hardware setup again & I will be doing lots of hardware & DAW tutorials 👍
Do i only need 1 out input?
Great video! Thank you.
Great video, i'm building a new studio at the moment and was wondering, with the line inputs for instance from the casio and the rack below, are those 2 inputs mono?
I have a query I hope you can help with.
I have 6 external synths / drum machines but would also like to add my mixer to how you have set up in the video.
I have a Mackie 1402 VLZ4 mixer (and a Behringer UMC1820 interface which arrived today!)
I’d like the mixer involved to try and get away from the computer as much.
Thanks in advance - absolute belter of a video btw!
Hey! nice video! I am planning to buy a behringer Model D synth. My only question is, does a Model D Synth control VSTi? I know it might be a wrong question here but any idea!?
I have a question. I have a synth that has 8 midi channels already. For each of the 4 analog parts and for the 4 digital parts. And other synths that have also 2-4 channels. So I run out of 16 midi channels on a bus. How do you go about recording those and how can you extend midi outputs in the best way? There is the MOTU but I’m not sure it solves my problem of having my daw or controller keyboard play one of the assigned synthesizer with its midi channels.
well you'd have to have more dedicated midi out buses: try reading & asking here: www.midi.org/forum/144-how-to-connect-and-manage-a-massive-collection-of-midi-hardware
once such a setup is created, like as usual you always play the required midi unit from the laster keyboard THRU the DAW track assigned to it which both routes the midi TO the required unit & allows recording of the played parts to the required track of course
Are you then effectively using the audio interface & DAW combination to replace the mixer?
My question too
I have a convoluted, possibly stupid, and beginner question but still I trying to find an answer if there is one. So please bare with me.
Is there a way to prepare midi notes in some sort of daw, to create a pattern or part or entire song then send that to an external synth? Then possibly recording the audio from the output of the synth?
Maybe not the best way to ask the question. But basically I don't have skills for playing so I'm trying to find a way to set up a song but still get the sounds of my hardware synths and drum machines. If this is stupid or to complicated. Please ignore. Thanks! Ps great video makes perfect sense!
I have a query to ask.
So I have an Alesis q25 MIDI controller, as shown in the video, and I have a Volca Drum synth.
I also have the Soundcraft MTK 12 mixer and Focusrite 2i2 Audio Interface.
My goal is to sequence MIDI on the DAW and trigger the Volca Drum sounds to be recorded in the DAW.
As of now I was trying to send the DAW MIDI sequence to the q25 via USB and to the Volca Drum through the MIDI out. But, alas, I’m unable to trigger anything while I play the DAW MIDI sequence, but can hear the sound if I play the q25 keys.
Is a MIDI thru box the only solution?
Any other workaround? Thanks.
Q. You have the MIDI OUT socket of the Q25 connected to the Volca MIDI IN socket, so when you play the Q25 you are triggering the Volca directly?
If the answer to that question is YES... then are you triggering the Volca via the Trad' MIDI OUT socket on the Q25, AND recording that same MIDI playing data to the DAW via the USB connection from the Q25, both at the same time?
The problem to answer your question is that the Alesis so-called 'manual' for the Q25 is little more than useless & their own official product video on youtube is again next to useless, so there's no way to know if the unit's MIDI OUT works to route MIDI data incoming via the USB connection to it's own MIDI OUT port.
I'd have thought that it's unlikely it does that TBH because then the Q25 MIDI OUT would need to function as a combined OUT/THRU socket adding to the unit's cost - BUT it could be possible to switch the Q25 OUT port function in software or via some button press on the unit from OUT to THRU mode, but again the manual says nothing on that.
However before you spend more money you need to contact Alesis and find out the answer to that question 100% - and/or do some checks to 100% be sure the DAW is sending MIDI data OUT to the Q25 on the correct channel for the Volca and the DAW has the Q25 correctly set as the default MIDI port (You dont say if you can record MIDI data IN to the DAW from the Q25)
So if you check all the above & the Q25 indeed CANNOT send incoming USB MIDI data to it's own MIDI OUT port, then you'll need to buy a traditional USB midi hub.. something cheap like the ESI MidiMate eX, or go more expensive... or upgrade your audio interface to one with trad' MIDI IN/OUT connectors
@@dancetech thanks for getting back quick on this.
Answer to both your questions is yes. And as you mentioned, I couldn’t get much out of the manual. I did wonder whether there is a way to switch the routing from MIDI OUT to THRU in the keyboard itself.
I could only switch the Volca Drum PROGRAM 1-16 if I pressed the PROGRAM on the keyboard.
However, I noticed that the keys stopped triggering the Volca if I pressed the MIDI CHANNEL on the keyboard for some reason.
As you mentioned, I might have to contact Alesis to get more clarity in this issue before spending on a thru box.
The one thing I was wondering, that you did not cover. Don't you need to daisy chain your midi equipment first? So everything you play on your usb keyboard triggers the outboard midi gear?
well OBVIOUSLY you have to connect the external MIDI kit
Would there be any latency issues if you would add to this setup more io, hardware processors like a reverb/delay, dbx compressor, pultecs and masterbus comp.
Theoretical situation u have kick and snare sample in the s950 goin in on separate channels on the interface. You want to add an eq plug in daw on and also process them through a hardware reverb via send. After that send them out to a dbx comp then back in to the daw. Next create a drumgroup of them into a drum bus and send that into a pultec eq. And lastly have hardware sterecomp insert on the master channel.
All of this processing would be happning in real time in a jamming like situation where the kick and snare would be coming straight out of the 950 meaning the signals would not be prerecorded to daw.
All of my production is done otb with hardware sequencers and samplers, and im asking this cause i would like to know if its possible to create a ”final mix” with a hardware setup like thiw before hitting record on daw? The interface would function more like a analog mixer in this case.
What kind of latency issues can you expect from a situation like this? Would a setup like this only cause headache and i would just be better of using a mixer? However, I would like to add that preferably i want avoid using a mixer if i can since the mixers i can afford might not be that great.
Cheers!
in a word, no.i wouldn't do that, you would be combining latency, and without getting out a pencil and paper and drawing the plot diagram of what you describe to check, there could be loop feedback issues with send/returns - plus you'd end up with almost no actual inputs available as so many would be occupied with send/return & bus send/return duties negating the entire point of the technique which is to use inputs as inputs.
latency issues? Just sending out and back from a h/w reverb would add another bunch of ms delay to the reverb return, not a massive issue with time-based fx like delay/reverb, but still depending on the reverb program chosen it might sound weird with additional pre-delay added... and then there'd be the nightmare of printing everything to final record, and delays in signals which then would have to be re-aligned manually
you'd be better off getting a mixer and using that in combination with an interface - and that brings in different techniques which we'll be making example videos about when the new space is setup here with a full outboard hardware + mixer + DAW setup. 👍
@@dancetech yeah that was what i was afraid of! Thanks for the help!
I am still unclear on why a digital mixer that sends each channel to the DAW isn't a viable option. Isn't a digital mixer with a per-channel output to PC via USB the same basic idea as using a multi-channel audio interface to send each piece of outboard analog MIDI controlled hardware to the PC (and per-channel into the DAW)?
Besides the ability to adjust the audio on its way IN to the PC via all the digital mixer pans, fades, EQ, AUX S/R, etc: isn't the digital mixer MORE capable than an audio interface?
Aren't Interface units typically outfitted with a gain adjustment, and maybe pan if you're lucky? Even the interfaces with a possible high number of inputs that cost significantly more than the typical 2x and 4x Interface Input options, just do not have a lot of audio modification options available. Certainly not the options available to a mixer.
I have been considering something that may be the best of both worlds. A UNIT that accepts 8, 12, 24 + expanded options by stacking units and using optical / digital audio to link the units and double, triple, quadruple - and so on - the number of available inputs.
This would be using a desktop (or rackmount version) of a digital mixer. It has approximately the same footprint as a multi-channel audio interface, and about as many onboard options. They appear real simple: Inputs, maybe a gain knob, and perhaps a basic VU LED on some of the nicer ones. They have USB (2, 3, and C) mixer to PC connections. Many have optical audio I/O, in which you can chain two, three, four, and more units together, expanding the number of inputs by the number available per mixer in each link of that chain.
Like the Soundcraft Ui24R :
24 channels of inputs
Rack mounted
All traditional mixer controls exist in the control application - available on any PC, laptop, tablet or phone OS.
Or the
Behringer X32 Rack 40-channel Rackmount Digital Mixer
Add 8, 16, 14, and 32 channel expansion boxes, connected via Ethernet or optical. Monitor and DSP & manipulate on iPad / iPhone.
Perhaps the Midas DL32 32-input & the Midas M32C Digital Rackmount Mixer? Again, uses built-in Ethernet port, to connect each unit, as well as one to connect to a local network for remote control via your computer. Or connect to a wireless network and control the M32C with your iPad, iPhone, or Android device remotely.
Again. No deed for a mixing deal when you can control it all remotely with a PC, laptop, phone or tablet.
Some of these have an insane amount of outputs for different monitor mixes. Lots of onboard effects. Some have the ability to use outboard effects with traditional sends & returns.
Maybe my favorite is the PreSonus StudioLive 32R 32-channel Rackmount Digital Mixer. It boasts 40/40 Input/ Output, expandable to 55x55 I/O over Ethernet.
A second Ethernet port is used to operate the virtual mixing deal surface software, called UC Surface: available for Mac, Windows, and iPad. That is for the engineer. How about all the outputs? This thing could run 8 monitor outputs. Don't sweat it! Al those monitor mixes can be tended to via the QMix-UC APP: available for both iOS and Android. Whether it's a monitor engineer, or the performer with his phone, another piece of gear (monitor mixing desk) that doesn't need to be transported, or set up.
This one kind of blues the line between traditional and rack mount remote controlled digital mixer, but it's close The Allen & Heath Qu-Pac 22 in/12 out Rackmountable Digital Mixer is outstanding.
16 Mono + three stereo input channels
12 onboard Mix Outputs, expandable to 40 in and 24 separate outs.
This one uses an app only available via iPad. Turn off for me, but plenty of people use them.
Next... Even Yamaha!! The TF-Rack 40-channel Digital Rackmount Mixer.
A lot like the previous one. Fuzzy. And yes, they have an expansion rackmount unit with 16 more inputs and 12 more outputs per unit. called the Yamaha Tio1608 with IN and OUT Ethernet connections in each: Making it easy to chain THREE more of these together. That means you could feasibility have 64 inputs and 48 outputs if you maxed out the expansion units. Yamaha has a trio of apps to utilize this gear. PC, Mac iOS, iPad can all be used for various operational functions.
The inexpensive Zoom LiveTrak L20R 20-channel Remote-controlled Digital Mixer / Recorder might be the way to go for those on a tight budget. 22in/ 4out USB from the unit to any Mac or PC. An iPad app exists to wirelessly control the on screen mixing desk- so even though it exports the audio (per channel) to a DAW on any kind of computer - you still an iPad to control the virtual mixing desk. This unit doesn't expand our like the others, but does have an internal SD card recorder that will record each input individually, or make a mixed down stereo recording, without the need for a computer or DAW.
There are more.
Mackie DL16S & DL32S
MOTU has one
Midas and Soundcraft have other models beyond the ones listed above.
I see this being more and more of a thing. I am leaning this way. I have SO MANY synths, drum machines, mics, and effects that one of these rackmount units plus maybe an expansion unit, along with a patchbay - would consolidate my setup immensely.
Just my 2 cents.
Short answer: In classical multitrack recording you almost never eq BEFORE the recorder except for perhaps some 'corrective' eq adjustments such as a hi-pass to remove bottom-end rumble, because we always want an UN-equalised copy of the mic channel printed to tape/digital - hence recording mixers have monitoring channels (split/inline or hybrid). This is also why ALL music DAW software add their FX/processing plugins AFTER the record point, functioning as monitoring FX/processing.
Given this fact, this is why plugins work fine for monitoring FX/processing & generally people prefer using those with a controller mixer, if a controller-mixer is used at all (which most of the better/pricier digital mixers will actually function as in 'controller' mode).
The main role of the mixer in a studio is ROUTING & for the pre-amps & the main channel EQ section is pretty much only used on final mix-down, & yes, a digital mixer CAN be convenient for routing purposes, but it's not a dealbreaker depending on your setup.
is it possible to use a mixer that have no usb conection but midi in/out/thru (5pin) and plug it to a soundcard like Focusrite that also have in and out conection and control a virtual mixer of a DAW ? I mean that if i use the midi learn protocol and assign 1 real fader to the virtual one via midi in an out conection, does the virtual mixer react ?
yes, that device is called a DAW CONTROLLER. the cheapest is the behringer bcf2000
Inspiring.
Thanx for posting the video, i have a question: Is it possible when i connect midi in from my keyboard to out on my daw 1 , the out from keyboard to the in from my daw 1 , to use the thru from my keyboard and connect it to the midi in from another daw 2 ? in other words, can i use 1 keyboard to send midi to 2 daws ?
Thank you bro
Except this doesn't cover if you wanna add external FX processors or if you need extra channels, this can be quite misleading for beginners I think
The entire point of this technique is that it offers a solution for those who do NOT have an external mixer or a selection of external hardware fx processors, but who DO have hardware midi kit or want to integrate external midi hardware. It is an ALTERNATIVE method therefore to buying a mixer and buying external fx processors & all the cables and then still having to make all that works with the DAW setup.
& then there's the laborious process of preparing for the final DAW/outboard final mix down
Personally I own two DAT machines AND a stereo reel to reel mastering machine, but most do not, so to prepare for final bounce/mix inside the DAW without a DAT or other mastering machine you have to track the external content to the DAW, one by one as audio tracks unless you are happy with the entire external sub-mix being in stereo only inside the DAW prior to final bounce-down/mix.
Finally, yes you CAN still use external processors like compressors, pre-amps or eq/channel strips BEFORE the daw inputs, but there's absolutely no sense in using reverb, delay etc fx externally as you can add all that inside the daw & i really doubt there's any noobs out there going: "But I own an old AMS or Lexicon & the reverb plugins wont get me that sound!"
So it is in fact not in the least misleading for beginners. If you need 'extra channels' then you add extra inpus, which we covered in our video: HOW TO GET LOADS OF INPUTS INTO YOUR DAW (th-cam.com/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/w-d-xo.html) - where you will see a range of solution to get from 16-32 physical DAW inputs.
hope that helps.
cheers
after spending the whole video on the audio path, the midi bit is just brushed over...and that's the bit many have issues with. I have an external USB keyboard, sending on ch1 , my external instruments are assigned their own midi channels from the DAW, but when playing the external keyboard, it only ever triggers the instrument on CH1, selecting another track does not receive on CH1 from the keyboard and then send out on CH2 for example, so I keep having to try to change the midi ch on the usb(master) keyboard... am I missing something?
"...the midi bit is just brushed over" ---- well that's because one would assume anyone with a reasonably extensive external MIDI hardware setup (such as this video caters for) would have learned how to use MIDI connections as they gradually expanded & built up their MIDI setup.... BUT, it should work exactly as described IF each external MIDI Item is set to a unique MIDI channel... then change the MIDI channel of the MIDI track in the DAW & it should channelise the MIDI THRU from the DAW to that correct channel to address the requires MIDI unit... also btw, MIDI Local Control should be OFF on the master synth/keyboard (If it has an internal synth engine & is not a 'dumb' master keyboard with no internal sounds) or it'll trigger itself whenever you play it...
If the master synth/keyboard DOES have an internal synth engine & you want to trigger it (and it;s 'Local Control' is set to OFF as it should be) then select it's channel (usually channel 1) in the DAW MIDI track and it'll trigger itself via the DAW MIDI loop back to itself..
@@dancetech Thanks for the reply, I think I figured it out at last! As for your message in regards of having a more extensive set up, and thus knowing how midi works, I'd argue that the same could be said for the audio path, but alas. Thanks again, and keep up the good work..
@@koosfockens1707 yeah the mysteries of MIDi eh!?... it gets mad with program changes and sysex and all that crazy stuff...