Annatar sounds like a nice guy. Definitely doesn’t have any ill intentions for anyone. I’m sure there’s no chance he’s associated with any dark lords whatsoever.
@@johnryan1004 It is absolutely like him that he said that. He is an excellent fellow, and he would jump into a dragon's throat to save Frodo, if he did not trip over his own feet.
I wonder if Annatar proclaiming he's an emissary from the Valar is why when they did send the Wizards to ME they stipulated that they must be unglamorous and appear as old men; because they knew the Elves had learned a very hard lesson about fair appearances.
There’s something about Maiar and Elves who were aligned with Aulë, isn’t there. Sauron, Saruman, Feänor and the other Ñoldor to whom Aulë taught much in smithying and crafting - they all seek mastery over physical matter and tend towards arrogance and a desire to have power over other beings, even if “for the good”. Even Aulë himself thought he knew better than Ilúvatar and jumped the gun by creating the Dwarves without prior approval. Galadriel - herself a Ñoldo - desired a realm to call her own, to nurture, protect and, yes, to rule. Sauron knew exactly what he doing by focusing on Eregion: those Elves heard exactly what they wanted to hear from him.
It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it? Poor Aulë. He alone of the Valar seems to deal with material possession. While there's nothing wrong with that it can lead to materialism, and craftsmanship can create competition which can lead to arrogance. I guess that's why relatively so many of his followers seem to stumble.
@@KorriTimigan I'd say it has something to do with being a creator/ artisan in a universe where only God is really creating, everyone else is either changing what the perfect god made, or is out of hubris trying to do what only God can do. Some Muslims throughout history weren't allowed to depict non abstract art; others were prohibited from depicting living creatures; others had to intentionally introduce flaws into their art, to show their lack of hubris. Creation in a world where only God can make, is rough. Tolkien knew.
Part of it could be the "Morgoth's Ring" aspect. Those who try to dominate or otherwise manipulate and control material that has been infused with Morgoth's essence open themselves up to being themselves manipulated by Morgoth's essence.
It's almost unimaginable how someone can create such a rich world in his mind, writing it down, in such detail, thank you J.R.R. for such an analogue and things to come here.
I honestly can't blame Celebrimbor and co. for accepting Annatar at first. Not only did he portray himself as coming from the Valar, but Feanor and his line always had that streak of pride in wanting to create beautiful things.
First, you can blame him for not listening to Gil Galad. Mostly, you can blame him for being thousands of years old yet not having any control over his own weaknesses. Intelligence 25, Wisdom 9. If you are able to see that family tendency, and if your whole race is basically Cursed due to this same tendency that your tiny family has, then maaaaybe steward yourself like a damned adult. In fact, if "adult" means "over 18" and implies " responsible for one's own actions" then Elves who live forever or at least millennia should have MULTIPLE AGE CATEGORIES with deepening levels of responsibility. Or, they suck. Maybe Elves simply suck.
Wanting to create beautiful things BY THEMSELVES. I don't see Feanor accepting help from anyone. Although I grant that might be different for others who already knew they weren't of his level.
@@exharkhun5605So Celebrimbor probably told himself that by accepting Annatar's "help" he was avoiding Fëanor's flaw of pride. "Look how humble and accepting I am!"
I always loved Frodo's insight. He figured out immediately that if Sauron's minions were trying to trick him, they wouldn't send a weird disheveled guy with bad vibes to do it.
Book Frodo is much older and more worldly. Movie Frodo works as the eyes of the audience, but book Frodo really is more wise and valuable to the Fellowship, especially in the early days. And of course, at the end.
This was the period where Sauron was supposed to be a pseudo Promethean figure generating religious engineering in Harad and Rhûn with the metallurgical revolution he made in the east and south.
Wow, that’s a good point, even though I don't think exactly in the same way. Before he decided to join forces with Morgoth I think that Sauron at some point viewed himself as Prometheus (but just when he lived in Valinor); for him the valar were irresponsible with Middle Earth, Middle Earth was chaos, so he wanted to end that chaos, but he was not bad, and in fact things only change when Morgoth convinced him. When he did the rings he was pure evil, he did the rings in order to control elves, men, and dwarfs, while Prometheus brang the fire in order to help men.
Something I find funny is how saurons disguises are so good he almost fools himself a few times into believing he’s sorry, but then he gets told to go back to the undying lands and he always backpedals
You're forced to wonder if, on some level, living peacefully for hundreds of years, crafting beautiful things and working with the elves and dwarves, Sauron was enjoying himself.
When a big lie can be built while only needing to bend the truth a little, the teller comes across as sincere because they know most of what they're saying is true. They believe it and therefore the lie is hard to feel.
Worth noting that one reason "Annatar" is so successful is that many of his gifts were genuine, or appeared to be so. It's a common trope in fiction that those who offer to teach more advanced technology find it easy to manipulate most of those who they are dealing with, going back at least as far as various folktales about fey creatures offering to fulfill one's surface desires only for it to cost them something much greater. (In practice, this often works out less favourably - outsiders bearing knowledge are often regarded with extreme suspicion.)
My favorite version of that trope is the Puppeteers (yes they're literally called this but not for that reason, its because their heads look like sock puppets) in Larry Niven's work. An apt name. I won't spoil anything but lets just say they've been manipulating humans under the guise of beneficence for a long time. They actually do like humans on some level and want to help them but they also fear them greatly and want to control them. That's kind of their thing, they're innately terrified of everything, but this doesn't make them meek and ineffectual. They're brutal calculating strategists that would do a genocide if it increased their odds of species survival by 1%. They evolved as prey animals and weren't apex predators so that fear is built into everything they do. When they did achieve a decent tech level the first thing they did was wipe out every predator species they had on their home planet.
You nailed the weaknes in Annatars deception. If he was indeed a Maiar, send by the Valar, then the elves who, like Galadriel, had lived in Valinor would have remembered him being there. May be they would'nt reconigse him as Myron (later Sauron), but they would at least know for certain that he was'nt what he claimed to be.
You mentioned Sauron built his base in Rhûn in the beginning of the Second Age.. I was always wondering if we have any sources on how Sauron ruled? The Orcs of Mordor as well as the men of Rhûn and Harad followed him for the better part of 6000 years. So I always felt it difficult to imagine that he only ruled by fear. Did he inspire loyalty or even genuine admiration? We always read the story of Arda from the perspectives of those who went west to Middle Earth and Valinor, but there are people living in the other parts of the world who do not care that much about the Valar (and the Valar did not seem to care much about them)
@@lldavidll Not at all, haven't even watched a single minute and don't intend to, I have better things to do. Still it is interesting to think about how Sauron built his power base in the Second Age, as he should have been detained by the Valar after the War of Wrath. Just saying he was an evil demi god does not do him justice as Tolkien did not write one-dimensional characters.
@@olivere3941 the orcs are not sophisticated family loving "people" they are hateful beasts bred for war and sauron easily enslaved them through fear and dominance. morgoth had already sewed the seeds of evil and wickedness in the east and south, they were of already like mind to pillage middle earth and against the free people of middle earth. imo the main story really has nothing to do with HOW exactly sauron capitalized on what morgoth had wrought, just that he did, and the rings for men helped him accomplish even more domination and control over those areas.
and i am sure that is how morgoth and sauron after lied and whispered about the valar, to the peoples of the east and south- that they dont care about them, they only care for the people of middle earth, and make them resent the people of middle earth.
@@olivere3941 the people who went west to middle earth and valinor were people getting away from what morgoth was doing to the people in the east as soon as they "awakened". they were corrupted and manipulated from the start by him.
Annatar explained: Some elves were dumb enough to trust a guy calling himself "Lord of Gifts" even after Gil-galad, Elrond, and Galadriel were all like "hell naw."
They had clause like The Rock has that he cant lose a fight. They can not be fooled cuz poor 19th century style writing can not have protagonists that can be fooled by some angelic being. How can they be protagonists if ever they fail? Also "hell naw" - I dont think they were black ghetto kids.
@@xitywampas In my sense they're much like the naive characters of much of traditional mythology, easily duped and vain. Over the course of the different ages they matured.
I have fairly recently discovered your channel and have been avidly listening to your LotR insights. I have been a fan of Tolkien for years but whilst I managed to plough through the Silmarillion, I didnt manage to make it through the lost tales or anything else in Tolkiens legendarium. Your delivery and informative style make listening to Tolkien lore a delight! Thank you!
“Lord of Gifts” The name alone (to me) is a huge red flag Nothing in life comes free of cost If someone is says they’re going to give you something “for free”, you can bet that there will be, ultimately, a price to be paid The bigger the gift, the bigger the price I’m with Cirdan and Elrond on this one
Free, instant and perfect are concepts that don't really exist; instant red flags. I would say don't get me started on altruism, but it sounds like you already know lol.
Funny you should say that, since this is like, the ONE storyline they didn’t mess up. Which is, unsurprisingly, probably why he’s most viewers’ favorite part of the show.
@@Mayakran yeah, he easily carried the show for me and is the sole reason why I consider the second season a solid improvement over the first one. The actor did amazing job, specially those piercing stares behing the fair appearance.
It really is a shame that Shadows of Mordor/War aren't canon stories. I really like the Celebrimbor they wrote in those games. Also getting to see Annatar doing his thing before the One is forged was kind of cool
Honestly, the concept and storyline of Annatar is sort of a parable for real life… How people can play a role well, for years even (or in the case of Annatar hundreds of years), mimicking compassion, love, kindness, generosity, all “desirable” human traits - to achieve whatever their more impactful purpose is. Annatar played this role well, with the end result being rings of immense power and control. This kind of ladder climbing happens in real life more than I think we want to admit. People “network” and forge relationships and seek control and privileges, pretending to be invested in a common good but really just only solely for personal gain.
Also some sources indicate that Sauron introduced himself as not a maiar in his Annatar form but rather an emissary of the Valar as one of the Vanyar elves from valinor.
No, the wording is 'In Eregion Sauron posed as an emissary of the Valar, sent by them to Middle-earth ("thus anticipating the Istari") or ordered by them to remain there to give aid to the Elves'. Emissary of the Valar yes, as one of the Vanyar no. More likely he posed as a Maia ordered to remain behind by the Valar.
At the end of the war of wrath, Sauron walked into Eonowe's tent, surrendered, asked for pardon, refused to go to Valinor for it, and walked out again and vanished. Given Eonowe's stellar performance here as a typical government employee, you have to wonder if bothered to tell the leadership of the elves that remained behind that this occurred. It's not clear, as I recall, that they knew that Sauron had publicly demonstrated both his survival and his refusal to bend the knee.
I think Tolkien’s Catholic background shows most clearly in the fair seeming disguise of Sauron, given the Bible’s description of Lucifer and his ability to still appear as one of light. Charisma is a significant tool of both Sauron and Lucifer when one compares their descriptions.
Meh, I guess... until you realize there are dozens of evil spirits in Tolkien's lore. Balrogs for one. If Sauron is Satan then what does that make Morgoth?
"All Maiar were spirits, who can take the shape they want". I don't think that rings true across the board. The balrogs didn't seem to be able to. Melian seems to have stayed in her same shape since she met her elven husband and until he died, at least. Even Morgoth didn't seem to have the power to disappear into a fluffy spirit by mid-FA. I would say that it is more complex than that. It certainly is of consequence if you are in M-E for a prolonged time and if you stay fixed in one form. The rules are hazy, but I would say that Sauron had a particular talent that didn't apply to most Ainur, at least when being outside of the Undying Lands. Earlier days or later ages, may also have played a role. Ëonwe and whoever Maiar that followed, took ships across the Belegaer sea and he seems to have stayed in one form during his campaign. If he just had the power to shapeshift into a great eagle or something, why did the real great eagles and Eärendil in his ship need to take on the winged dragons?
Tolkien did write that the Valar could “wear” different forms in the same way and with the same ease we can wear different sets of clothes… but, unless my memory’s failing me, he wrote that ONLY about the Valar. Not all the Ainur. So yeah, I guess that shapeshifting, at least among the Maiar, is specifically Sauron’s thing. Also, now that I think about it, we mustn’t forget Tolkien’s Christian worldview. In Christianity, the body is an essential part of one’s identity, one’s essence, just as much as the soul. Your face, your hands, your hair, are an essential part of who YOU are, of who God made you to be. So it only makes sense that the power of shapeshifting, of constantly changing your body features, would be associated to Satan and his followers: because they renounced God, in a way they renounced their own identity. The fact that their body is ever changing, lost, unable to settle on a true form, reflects the fact that so is their soul.
@@rickblaine9670 Fair points. I wouldn't over-empathize his "Christian worldview" too much, though. In the beginning he was heavily influenced by pre-Christian pagan mythology. In his own words his Catholic overarch was always there, but grew stronger as he grew older. I still think that the Ainur should be seen as something in between Siegfried/Baldur/Loki/Väinämöinen and Michael, Gabriel or Satan. Both viewpoints are necessary to understand their nature IMO.
I always think about how difficult it must have been for Annatar to feign being good for so many centuries. Like, is there actually much difference from pretending to be good and actually being good after such a long time? After centuries, did he ever feel temptation to just remain good forever because it's such a long time that perhaps he could even start to forget his past and stick to his fair persona forever? The inverse equivalent is a double agent that get so deeply involved in the evil faction that they themselves have to kill and torture people just to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the people they're infiltrating. At what point are you in so deep that you're literally just one of them now?
I recall seeing IDG or maybe someone else with a video on whether Sauron truly repented. I haven't seen it, but I suspect the answer has something to do with the Maiar being like angels/"separated intelligences", who have irreformable wills once they decide.
But, 'good' doesn't mean 'seeming helpful', it means 'helping to one's loss and to the benefit of others, with the benefit of others being the motive'. His motives were for his ends, and his actions were to the unbeknownst detriment of others, so he was evil the whole time.
A good question but i dont think that was the case here. He wasnt doing good, from the moment he came to Eregion he was deceiving them into making the chains with which he will enslave them, not to mention he was fanning the flames of civil war leading to them rebelling of Galadriel and Celeborn
Intent matters. If the only reason why you live among foreign citizens, learn their language, and become good friends with them is for the purpose of learning how to utterly destroy them, then everything good you've ever done for them is polluted by that ill will. Also, consider the wording of your question: "for so many centuries." Sauron, as a Maiar, has existed since before time began. Even if we only count the time since the Elves and Men first awoke in Middle Earth, that's still thousands of years. The inconceivably long time period of 500-ish years to us is barely any time at all for a being as ancient and timeless as him.
@@johnkeckI think the point at which you can't repent at any point in the legendarium is when you devote part of your essence to evil. Morgoth did this early on- it took Sauron until his ring to become irredeemable.
It seems most of the mistakes and conflict of the first ages was born out of the Elves desire to remain immortal within Middle Earth as they would in the Undying Lands. Terrific video!👍
I disagree. Rings of power has been of middling quality, but I can overlook most of it. The poor characterization and acting of Annatar has really bothered me. It reminds me how we were supposed to believe that Anakin Skywalker was this paragon of moral virtue lured tragically to the dark side. Annatar has been transparently evil - and Celebrimbor a farcical fool - from the get-go. There has been no compelling or believable arc to that story. The scene (no spoilers) at the end of S2E6 was a noteworthy exception. That was well done. Too bad the story is almost played out.
Thanks for this video. Very accurate and enjoyable as usual. I really enjoyed the art work! However, I disagree on one small point: Galadriel "scorning" Annatar does not mean she was a fundamentally "different" Galadriel than we see in the LoTR. Galadriel had come from Valinor, and had already sat at the feet of Melian for thousands of years, so she already had a fair whack of wisdom. Way back in the history, in Valinor, it seems Galadriel didn't fully trust Feanor either and refused to give him a lock of her hair when he requested it for some creation he had in mind. And she was right not to trust him. Look at all the trouble that ensued from his creation and obsession with the Silmarils. So when Galadriel scorns Annatar, she was simply once again showing she had more insight than many others, probably due to her experience in life and immense wisdom. The Amazon Rings of Puke belligerent, head strong, manipulative, "Commander of the North", brat Galadriel, who was taken in, (and is being shipped in a truly immature teenage way by the writers of this abysmal show), and had "feelings" for Sauron in disguise as Halbrand, shows no similar insight. Zero. The show depicts her as a fool, and a dishonest sneaky one at that. The RoP G woman - sorry Elf - does NOT AT ALL represent book Galadriel. Non book readers shouldn't continue to be fed the RoP propaganda that Galadriel completely swaps personality between the Silmarillion and the LoTRs. It's just not true.
I've always wondered if Gandalf and the other wizards (other than Sarumon) and Sauron ever physically met face-to-face. That would have been an interesting conversation! It seems as if Gandalf has first-hand knowledge of Sauron--so perhaps they did.
Thank you Robert, for not including anything, not even pictures from the Amazon R.o.P abomination! This is how I like to remember Tolkiens amazing work
"Anna" is a finnish verb meaning "give (to me / someone else)" and "-tar" is a female being suffix. I got a chuckle watching Rings of Power every time it was said.
The note of Sauron being particularly good at changes of hue is echoed in descriptions of Radagast. I wonder if the implication of similar phrases is that they're intended to have been comparable in terms of their shape shifting abilities.
This was a good video, but quite incomplete. It left out, among other things, the time that Galadriel decided to swim from near Valinor to Middle Earth and ran into Sauron (in disguise) in the middle of the ocean. How did it leave out the fact that, as Annatar, Sauron taught the great smith Celembrimbor the concept of alloys?
If the rings of power ended with the lord of gifts, giving Galadriel a squishy toy for her anger management issues I’d be very much more content than I am now😂
RoP spoilers I was optimistic hearing that Annatar would feature, only for the reveal to be more underwhelming than last season Sauron reveal. The setup was great, only for the climax of the scene to look like Hal just quickly slapped on a wig and prosthetic ears. Not only does it make the cunning shapeshifting Maia look like a fool, but from a cinematography standpoint it disrupts Suspension of Disbelief. Obviously we know all the elves and dwarves have costume and make-up, we know Ian McKellen never grew his beard to play Gandalf, but It's not smart to have a shapeshifting character go from resembling the actor in real life, to then put the actor in a divine costume. All they needed to do was find a fresh new Twink actor who better plays the Annatar persona, don't know why they are bent over keeping one person to be the face of the very villain that made a bigger cultural icon for being face-less
@@korganrocks3995 Truly, ignorance is bliss. I have never watched RoP and never intend to, and everything I've ever heard about it has only reinforced that choice.
I wish the Amazon series would stick closer to lore and explain this in the wonders of the cinema. That being said, excellent video. I always enjoy learning new things about the Lord of the Rings.
Also, Galadriel as a woman getting a bad vibe off an attractive and popular Nice Guy, and getting flack for it, is I think a very relatable experience.
Women tend to have that ick feeling from people and others usually doesnt understand them especially men since they dont understand where this coming from. Having an high EQ,reading betweent the lines and understanding microexpressions sounds to them like a witchcraft or nonsense to them.
Theres also another parallel with Morgoth. In the 1st age Morgoth finds the elves before the Valar do and convinces them to be wary of the hunter Orome. This makes it hard for Orome to convince them to follow him to Aman. In the second age, Sauron assumes the Valar will send Maiar to guide the peoples of Middle Earth so he disguises himself as a helpful Maiar before they get the chance
Annatar is one of the names I have always assumed to have its roots in Finnish. "Antaa" (to give) and its many forms, like the common "anna", when the name Annatar means "gift giver", seems like a word Tolkien might have come across and been inspired by.
I've always been thinking that Tolkien formed this name, Annatar, from Finnish which he famously studied. As in Finnish 'anna' means 'give'. Also in Finnish the -tar ending is in use, though differrentely (and it's also mostly historical these days, as it refers to woman in the said profession).
Elvish is inspired by finnish. Anna means give. Duke is Hearttua and duchess is herttuatar. -tar ending is female version of nobility so he is "Lady who gives" :D
Truly some wonderfully thoughtful analysis to coincide with the underrated Amazon show. Your work has been delightful for years now. Please do continue on, and so forth. As you were.
If the one ring controls all others. Does this apply to the lesser rings that are mentioned, or not because sauron did not have any hand on their creation
Existed. Supposedly they, and other horrors, were all destroyed during the war with Morgoth, but then again it was thought that about all the Balrogs too. (And they're only referred to, in passing, in a location that, to be very pedantic, doesn't qualify as Middle Earth.)
If you ask me, the Valar wouldn't contradict themselves by sending an emissary to enable the Elves like that. They would not help them to stay in Middle Earth.
The treachery of Sauron was not he posed as a good "person" for men, elves and dwarves but that he really gave them knowledge and power, and the rings. He only wronged everyone by forging the one ring [to rule them all] at the end of his master plan.
Everyone was known by something else, their names were always changing. Turin, in The Children of Hurin, was called by at least half a dozen names. Sauron is known as the deceiver, a face changer as well as changing his name.
For some reason the line about seeming fairer but feeling fouler really stuck with my 10 year old self I was devastated that Peter Jackson didn't include it in his movies. I also love that Ralph Bakshi included it in his animated film which I've always found to be far superior. Despite being way more abridged it seemed to capture the tone of Tolkien so much better. As an aside Sheldon's girlfriend in the sitcom the Big Bang Theory is named Amy Farah Fowler (fairer fouler?) and I've always wondered if that was a deliberate reference to this line.
There's an extended version of the Trilogy that's 2 DVDs per movie and includes a _lot_ of material cut for the Theatrical Release. No Tom Bombadil, and a lot of the dialogue has been shifted around, but there's a lot more Tolkien to be found in that version.
@@bluesbest1 does it have the fairer/fouler line? Honestly, I hate those movies so much I doubt I could subject myself to another 6 hours of them. I hated them when I watched them in the theater. A few years ago I tried to rewatch them with my girlfriend and hated them just as much. She fell asleep during Return of the King and we never even bothered finishing it.
@@olliewilliams7753 Not in Bree itself, but as an aside to Merry when he asks essentially "Why are we trusting this guy?" Personally, I spent far too much time watching the movies (RotK in particular) as a teenager to comprehend not liking it or falling asleep and never finishing it. How far in did you guys get?
@@bluesbest1I read the books at 17, watched the movies each on release day, and watched them on extended DVDs when they became available. Maybe I'm a casual fan of Tolkien but I thought the movies were great for recreating the locations and characters and tone and emotional signatures of so much of the books without making me memorize 50 nearly identical elf names. Yes Peter Jackson made tons of changes, some good some bad, but 100 overly complex ambiguous characters without a strong identity makes for movies and TV that are dull and directionless. You have to make changes to adapt a work and sometimes reshuffle character moments. On a scale of 1 (total unwatchable butchery) to 10 (perfect yet compelling adaptation) I give LOTR extended editions an 8.5. If you're curious I give the last four Harry Potter movies a 5, 4, 3, and 4 out of 10.
@@feldon27 Yeah, naming off 100 different characters and giving them a moderately complex backstory only for about 5 minutes of screentime is far easier in a written medium than a visual one. Looking rather pointedly at characters like the Elf Frodo, Sam and Pippin meet in the Shire, Glorfindel, and Tom Bombadil. Beloved characters, sure, but they mean a lot more to Frodo than they do to the story and cutting them out didn't detract from the story as much as people would expect. Especially when showing Gandalf's adventures in Isengard cuts out the majority of the Council of Elrond, where those three characters mattered most to the story. You were far more generous to the Harry Potter films than I am. I personally rate the first 3 movies no lower than an 8 and the last 5 as no higher than a 4. My genuine, unironic feedback is: "Did they even try?" with maybe a little bit of "Did they even read the books?" sprinkled in. Take the first Potions lesson in HBP for example. Film Hermione sounds like she's obligated to say what she smelled, while Book Hermione is caught up in proving her knowledge and catches herself, clamming up when she realizes she's spilling private information. And did they slip Daniel Radcliffe drugs for the Felix Felicis part? Anyway, that's another big difference that sets the Peter Jackson films apart from so many other adaptations. Every actor was highly experienced, everyone on set was constantly referencing the books for inspiration and direction, and they all clearly acted to the best of their abilities.
I was having a lotr discussion with friends. I have never seen a single episode of Rings of Power nor would I want to, however my friends had. I was very confused when they're talking about some character called Halbrand and this being Sauron. I said the them, do you mean Annatar? The lord of gifts? If this is case then this gives even more reason never to watch RoP. Tolkien's work need not be changed.
You know who The Maiar (fire spirit and shapeshifter) Mairon is? He went to Valinor's smith The Valar "Aule" to learn the knowledge of forging. But one thing to remember is: "in secret" he worked as the Chief Lieutenant of: Melkor "The Valar" also known as the first dark lord "Morgoth" which means: Chaos and Destruction. Later Mairon(Maia) becomes the second dark lord "Sauron" (Lord of the Rings). He suggests that Celebrimbor have his blacksmiths forge 16 power rings. And it is these famous rings that are touched by Sauron's hands. But without that: Sauron "knows" Celebrimbor makes his smiths forge 3 elven rings. Sauron finds out and becomes angry. Poor Celebrimbor is brutally killed by "Sauron's" spirit that haunts his soul and tortures him to death. Sauron steals the 16 rings he has touched. Disguises itself as a gift spirit and distributes nine to nine mortal Numenoreans (men) of royal blood and seven to seven Dwarven lords. And this is: Anntar. Also for the sake of revenge to get control of these 16 rings, he forges a ring in Mordor's fire inside Doom (the volcanic mountain). And puts it on his finger. A part of his powers is transferred into the ring. And Hokus Pokus he "makes" nine "Morgul" army soldiers who are the most dangerous and deadliest of all his servants. And this is: Ringwraiths`s "Nazgul". The last seven power rings of the 16. Only gives Dragon sickness (Gold Fever). Especially Thor of Erebor (Oakenshield's Dwarven kingdom). When he sees gold, he just wants more and more and becomes obsessed with it. Friends become Enemies. And he becomes "Mad" in his "mind". Just like the words of the dragon Smaug. The wise dwarf with a long white beard makes a wise decision. And asks Bilbo to "take care" of: the Arch Stone. A shining blue precious treasure of the king (Oakenshield). Because he sees that his friend Thor is not himself. Bilbo agrees and puts it in his pocket. And uses it as bait in the tent (where a conflict between the Mirkwood elf lord "Thranduil". (Legolas`s: father). And a human being. And Thor, Gandalf is at the scene trying to talk sense into Thranduil's mind. But in vain. Bilbo calls: Wait, I have something of interest. He takes it out of his pocket and shows it off. Thor gets angry. Your thief. But luckily he becomes himself again. And says sorry to his other dwarf friends. Who forgives him. But unfortunately he loses his brother and dies himself in the confrontation with The Great White Orc and his son. Azog and Bolg. But manages to defeat Azog, under the ice. He also dies wounded and from blood loss. Bilbo mourns his friend's death and honors his memory. By saying you are the bravest dwarf I have ever met. Rest in peace, my friend. The red haired elf lady, defends: her Dwarf "boyfriend" against: Bolg. Legolas with his bow and arrows joins the fight. And in the last battle, his father joins the fight and his elven army. It seems that in that scene Legolas has fallen in love with her red haired elf Lady. And gets a little frustrated, and steps in and stops his father. And says angrily: You have never loved, if you are going to kill her you must also kill me. The father "explains" that I have "loved" your beautiful mother very much. And the father advises his son to go on an adventure towards the "north". And seek out him who is called: the wide wanderer. (Which literally is Aragorn). And "join" him and Gimli joins. The three fight Orcs and Uruk-Hai and hide from "Saruman's flying black spies". Suddenly out of the cave come wolves riding orcs at full speed. And attacking. They fight with their weapons. An army from Rohan brings news from Rohan. (A son of King Theoden "explains" to the three that his own father does not recognize his own flesh and blood, And that the spirit of Saruman has taken over Rohan and poisoned the king's mind). Aragorn "explains" we are not spies, we are friends and allies.
'Emissary of the Valar' is confusing. The Istari appeared disguised as aged humans, but it is never stated whether Annatar looks like a human, elf, maiar, or other supernatural being. So we don't know if Sauron is copying the future Istari appearance or just their mission.
I wonder if when the Ishtari first arrived the elves widely mistrusted them because they were making the same claim (being messengers of the Valar sent to help) that Annatar had.
It is funny how feminine "Annatar" sounds in Finnish. Anna is a female name and "tar" ending is used as feminine ending in names and titles, kinda like English "tress". Also it is fair to point out that "anna" would be imperative form of "give".
Was Sauron really Morgoths lieutenant? After Beren and Luthien defeat he disappears until after the War of Wrath. I reckon he went into hiding after the defeat to escape Morgoths rage. He was more cunning than people give him credit for. Also he spent far longer on Middle-Earth than Morgoths so he knew where to sit it out.
I think Sauron played a little on the discontent of the final remaining Feanorean faction of the lingering Noldor nobility in Middle-earth. From the beginning, their yielding of preeminence to their Fingolfin/Finarfin cousins was grudging. I think Tolkien would’ve ultimately settled on the Gwaith-i-Mírdain usurpation of rule over the realm of Eregion from Galadriel & Celeborn. Their reticence to commission the undertaking of learning & crafting Rings of Power, the unspoken pretext. Only the scion of Feanor possessed the ambition, & indeed the lineage, to seek such power & craft. Some of this reasoning sounds straight from Annatar’s lips, I’d bet
Soooo... All of Tolkien's darlings among the elves suspected him for no reason. If I was an elf in middle earth I would've figured out quickly to never distrust Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf or any vague premonition they have
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
Annatar sounds like a nice guy. Definitely doesn’t have any ill intentions for anyone. I’m sure there’s no chance he’s associated with any dark lords whatsoever.
Yeah and those rings he’s talking about sound very lovely and could be helpful
And he so pretty
😂
I was thinking the same thing. No one with hair like that could be a problem
Plus, he's beautiful. So you can definitely trust him...
"Seem fairer and feel fouler"
Wonderful insight, dear Frodo.
Sam refers to Frodo as the wisest person in middle earth, then clarifies “after Galadriel, and Gandalf”
"So I look foul and feel fair is that it?"
If you ever watched the Bakshi version this is Aragorn's rebuttal.
@@johnryan1004 It is absolutely like him that he said that. He is an excellent fellow, and he would jump into a dragon's throat to save Frodo, if he did not trip over his own feet.
@@황중현-r9i said Peregrin Took
It worked largely because Sauron truly was what he represented himself to be: a Maia of power, skill, and deep knowledge.
The best lies are mostly accurate
I wonder if Annatar proclaiming he's an emissary from the Valar is why when they did send the Wizards to ME they stipulated that they must be unglamorous and appear as old men; because they knew the Elves had learned a very hard lesson about fair appearances.
There’s something about Maiar and Elves who were aligned with Aulë, isn’t there. Sauron, Saruman, Feänor and the other Ñoldor to whom Aulë taught much in smithying and crafting - they all seek mastery over physical matter and tend towards arrogance and a desire to have power over other beings, even if “for the good”. Even Aulë himself thought he knew better than Ilúvatar and jumped the gun by creating the Dwarves without prior approval. Galadriel - herself a Ñoldo - desired a realm to call her own, to nurture, protect and, yes, to rule. Sauron knew exactly what he doing by focusing on Eregion: those Elves heard exactly what they wanted to hear from him.
It's the hammer. Explains the Vikings too.
It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it? Poor Aulë. He alone of the Valar seems to deal with material possession. While there's nothing wrong with that it can lead to materialism, and craftsmanship can create competition which can lead to arrogance. I guess that's why relatively so many of his followers seem to stumble.
A wise woman once said that all problems start with seeing people as things, so maybe seeing things as more important than people is related...
@@KorriTimigan I'd say it has something to do with being a creator/ artisan in a universe where only God is really creating, everyone else is either changing what the perfect god made, or is out of hubris trying to do what only God can do.
Some Muslims throughout history weren't allowed to depict non abstract art; others were prohibited from depicting living creatures; others had to intentionally introduce flaws into their art, to show their lack of hubris. Creation in a world where only God can make, is rough. Tolkien knew.
Part of it could be the "Morgoth's Ring" aspect. Those who try to dominate or otherwise manipulate and control material that has been infused with Morgoth's essence open themselves up to being themselves manipulated by Morgoth's essence.
It's almost unimaginable how someone can create such a rich world in his mind, writing it down, in such detail, thank you J.R.R. for such an analogue and things to come here.
You might like West of Eden by Harry Harrison. Also a very rich fantasy world.
It’s almost like it’s based off Satan/azazel and his fallen angels.. almost 🤫
@@JacobBen94 sort of, this is a better fantasy story tho
@@marcpeterson1092That has to be a pen name surely 😂
It's just as unimaginable how a billion dollar company can make such a cheap looking TV series and destroy such a rich world!
I honestly can't blame Celebrimbor and co. for accepting Annatar at first. Not only did he portray himself as coming from the Valar, but Feanor and his line always had that streak of pride in wanting to create beautiful things.
First, you can blame him for not listening to Gil Galad.
Mostly, you can blame him for being thousands of years old yet not having any control over his own weaknesses. Intelligence 25, Wisdom 9.
If you are able to see that family tendency, and if your whole race is basically Cursed due to this same tendency that your tiny family has, then maaaaybe steward yourself like a damned adult.
In fact, if "adult" means "over 18" and implies " responsible for one's own actions" then Elves who live forever or at least millennia should have MULTIPLE AGE CATEGORIES with deepening levels of responsibility.
Or, they suck. Maybe Elves simply suck.
Great point. I sometimes forget that Celebrimbor was Feanor’s grandson
Wanting to create beautiful things BY THEMSELVES. I don't see Feanor accepting help from anyone.
Although I grant that might be different for others who already knew they weren't of his level.
@@exharkhun5605 well, he let his Silmarils get hallowed. He didn't do that.
@@exharkhun5605So Celebrimbor probably told himself that by accepting Annatar's "help" he was avoiding Fëanor's flaw of pride. "Look how humble and accepting I am!"
I always loved Frodo's insight. He figured out immediately that if Sauron's minions were trying to trick him, they wouldn't send a weird disheveled guy with bad vibes to do it.
Unless they knew he was on the lookout for suave con men, in which case they _would_ send a weird disheveled guy with bad vibes. 🧐
Book Frodo is much older and more worldly. Movie Frodo works as the eyes of the audience, but book Frodo really is more wise and valuable to the Fellowship, especially in the early days. And of course, at the end.
I mean, the nazgul did seem like weird disheveled dudes, only with some extraordinarily nasty bad vibes...
@@deusexaethera but then it still wouldn't work because no one is going to trust a disheveled guy with bad vibes anyway.
So he would have trusted Bill Ferny without doubt and precautions?
This was the period where Sauron was supposed to be a pseudo Promethean figure generating religious engineering in Harad and Rhûn with the metallurgical revolution he made in the east and south.
And nobody doubts a Light Bringer, eh?
"My name? ...err, Louis Cypher, why'dya askfer"
Wow, that’s a good point, even though I don't think exactly in the same way. Before he decided to join forces with Morgoth I think that Sauron at some point viewed himself as Prometheus (but just when he lived in Valinor); for him the valar were irresponsible with Middle Earth, Middle Earth was chaos, so he wanted to end that chaos, but he was not bad, and in fact things only change when Morgoth convinced him. When he did the rings he was pure evil, he did the rings in order to control elves, men, and dwarfs, while Prometheus brang the fire in order to help men.
Jason Jorjani is our worlds herald of Prometheus the Good Guy
Something I find funny is how saurons disguises are so good he almost fools himself a few times into believing he’s sorry, but then he gets told to go back to the undying lands and he always backpedals
You're forced to wonder if, on some level, living peacefully for hundreds of years, crafting beautiful things and working with the elves and dwarves, Sauron was enjoying himself.
Maybe the real rings of power were the friends we made along the way.
As another comment pointed out, he was so gifted in deception he even fooled himself, for a time.
When a big lie can be built while only needing to bend the truth a little, the teller comes across as sincere because they know most of what they're saying is true. They believe it and therefore the lie is hard to feel.
Worth noting that one reason "Annatar" is so successful is that many of his gifts were genuine, or appeared to be so. It's a common trope in fiction that those who offer to teach more advanced technology find it easy to manipulate most of those who they are dealing with, going back at least as far as various folktales about fey creatures offering to fulfill one's surface desires only for it to cost them something much greater. (In practice, this often works out less favourably - outsiders bearing knowledge are often regarded with extreme suspicion.)
The old tale of the genie or the monkey paw that gives what you want but with a most indesireable twist?
Thats a good observation. 👍
@@Lunkanize Huh, it really is just that isn't it. lol
My favorite version of that trope is the Puppeteers (yes they're literally called this but not for that reason, its because their heads look like sock puppets) in Larry Niven's work. An apt name. I won't spoil anything but lets just say they've been manipulating humans under the guise of beneficence for a long time.
They actually do like humans on some level and want to help them but they also fear them greatly and want to control them. That's kind of their thing, they're innately terrified of everything, but this doesn't make them meek and ineffectual. They're brutal calculating strategists that would do a genocide if it increased their odds of species survival by 1%. They evolved as prey animals and weren't apex predators so that fear is built into everything they do. When they did achieve a decent tech level the first thing they did was wipe out every predator species they had on their home planet.
I really like the way you explained this, thank you!!!
You nailed the weaknes in Annatars deception. If he was indeed a Maiar, send by the Valar, then the elves who, like Galadriel, had lived in Valinor would have remembered him being there. May be they would'nt reconigse him as Myron (later Sauron), but they would at least know for certain that he was'nt what he claimed to be.
Not necessarily. Olorin was definitely a Maia of Lorien (in Valinor) yet he often walked unseen among the Elves. The Maiar aren't all visible.
Mairon had left valjnor long before Galadriel was born.
There were lots of Maiar - nature spirits and small primordial beings. No way, even for an elf, to chart them all and many lived invisibly.
You mentioned Sauron built his base in Rhûn in the beginning of the Second Age.. I was always wondering if we have any sources on how Sauron ruled? The Orcs of Mordor as well as the men of Rhûn and Harad followed him for the better part of 6000 years. So I always felt it difficult to imagine that he only ruled by fear. Did he inspire loyalty or even genuine admiration? We always read the story of Arda from the perspectives of those who went west to Middle Earth and Valinor, but there are people living in the other parts of the world who do not care that much about the Valar (and the Valar did not seem to care much about them)
you seem like a huge rings of power fan.
@@lldavidll Not at all, haven't even watched a single minute and don't intend to, I have better things to do. Still it is interesting to think about how Sauron built his power base in the Second Age, as he should have been detained by the Valar after the War of Wrath. Just saying he was an evil demi god does not do him justice as Tolkien did not write one-dimensional characters.
@@olivere3941 the orcs are not sophisticated family loving "people" they are hateful beasts bred for war and sauron easily enslaved them through fear and dominance. morgoth had already sewed the seeds of evil and wickedness in the east and south, they were of already like mind to pillage middle earth and against the free people of middle earth. imo the main story really has nothing to do with HOW exactly sauron capitalized on what morgoth had wrought, just that he did, and the rings for men helped him accomplish even more domination and control over those areas.
and i am sure that is how morgoth and sauron after lied and whispered about the valar, to the peoples of the east and south- that they dont care about them, they only care for the people of middle earth, and make them resent the people of middle earth.
@@olivere3941 the people who went west to middle earth and valinor were people getting away from what morgoth was doing to the people in the east as soon as they "awakened". they were corrupted and manipulated from the start by him.
I was thinking about that quote that Frodo says about Aragorn the whole time while listening to this video and then you actually said it too!
Sauron always be like”nice place, but what if industrialisation” and then saurons all over the place
Lol
Annatar explained: Some elves were dumb enough to trust a guy calling himself "Lord of Gifts" even after Gil-galad, Elrond, and Galadriel were all like "hell naw."
They say the Elves are wise. They apparently only met the smart ones. They did a bunch of dumb stuff.
@@xitywampas Makes sense; the dumb ones had probably weeded themselves out by that point.
They had clause like The Rock has that he cant lose a fight. They can not be fooled cuz poor 19th century style writing can not have protagonists that can be fooled by some angelic being. How can they be protagonists if ever they fail?
Also "hell naw" - I dont think they were black ghetto kids.
@@xitywampas In my sense they're much like the naive characters of much of traditional mythology, easily duped and vain. Over the course of the different ages they matured.
@@EmperorTerran If you think Tolkien's writing style was that modern you're gravely mistaken. 😄
I have fairly recently discovered your channel and have been avidly listening to your LotR insights. I have been a fan of Tolkien for years but whilst I managed to plough through the Silmarillion, I didnt manage to make it through the lost tales or anything else in Tolkiens legendarium. Your delivery and informative style make listening to Tolkien lore a delight! Thank you!
“Lord of Gifts”
The name alone (to me) is a huge red flag
Nothing in life comes free of cost
If someone is says they’re going to give you something “for free”, you can bet that there will be, ultimately, a price to be paid
The bigger the gift, the bigger the price
I’m with Cirdan and Elrond on this one
TANSTAAFL!
Free, instant and perfect are concepts that don't really exist; instant red flags. I would say don't get me started on altruism, but it sounds like you already know lol.
Good catch! That is a rather suspicious title, even for a godly being
Talk to Ingwe on that. He will disagree.
He reminds me of all politicians before an election.😂
Love the art and included links here. I hear many channels have to worry about copyright strikes for screenshots; this a great solution.
This sounds like a really cool story. I hope they turn it into a tv show someday and they don’t screw it up
Funny you should say that, since this is like, the ONE storyline they didn’t mess up. Which is, unsurprisingly, probably why he’s most viewers’ favorite part of the show.
@@Mayakran yeah, he easily carried the show for me and is the sole reason why I consider the second season a solid improvement over the first one. The actor did amazing job, specially those piercing stares behing the fair appearance.
It really is a shame that Shadows of Mordor/War aren't canon stories. I really like the Celebrimbor they wrote in those games. Also getting to see Annatar doing his thing before the One is forged was kind of cool
Honestly, the concept and storyline of Annatar is sort of a parable for real life… How people can play a role well, for years even (or in the case of Annatar hundreds of years), mimicking compassion, love, kindness, generosity, all “desirable” human traits - to achieve whatever their more impactful purpose is. Annatar played this role well, with the end result being rings of immense power and control. This kind of ladder climbing happens in real life more than I think we want to admit. People “network” and forge relationships and seek control and privileges, pretending to be invested in a common good but really just only solely for personal gain.
Also some sources indicate that Sauron introduced himself as not a maiar in his Annatar form but rather an emissary of the Valar as one of the Vanyar elves from valinor.
No, the wording is 'In Eregion Sauron posed as an emissary of the Valar, sent by them to Middle-earth ("thus anticipating the Istari") or ordered by them to remain there to give aid to the Elves'.
Emissary of the Valar yes, as one of the Vanyar no. More likely he posed as a Maia ordered to remain behind by the Valar.
At the end of the war of wrath, Sauron walked into Eonowe's tent, surrendered, asked for pardon, refused to go to Valinor for it, and walked out again and vanished. Given Eonowe's stellar performance here as a typical government employee, you have to wonder if bothered to tell the leadership of the elves that remained behind that this occurred. It's not clear, as I recall, that they knew that Sauron had publicly demonstrated both his survival and his refusal to bend the knee.
Yussss, new video! I just went on another binge 😂
I've seen the documentary. Sauron put on a really bad wig to trick the elves into thinking he was Annatar.
have you only seen the trailer?
You have not seen what I have seen...
😁😁😁
And with the same face he had already revealed himself as Sauron to other elves, and somehow that news has not yet reached Eregion
Oh..you mean that amazon mockumentary?
Fun fact: Annatar was very close to the Skywalker family, they were practically Kin.
Clever
Booo
lose 2000xp and be imprisoned beyond the Gates of Night for two long ages
Chancellor Annatar is the Dark Lord! Quick, someone tell Master Windu!
Maedhros is also distantly related to Luke, going out on a Limb there tho
@@eternalsummer8409 I'll hand it to you about that one
Would love to see you doing some Malazan, can’t think of much that comes close in terms of deep and complex lore.
I think Tolkien’s Catholic background shows most clearly in the fair seeming disguise of Sauron, given the Bible’s description of Lucifer and his ability to still appear as one of light. Charisma is a significant tool of both Sauron and Lucifer when one compares their descriptions.
Meh, I guess... until you realize there are dozens of evil spirits in Tolkien's lore. Balrogs for one. If Sauron is Satan then what does that make Morgoth?
"All Maiar were spirits, who can take the shape they want". I don't think that rings true across the board. The balrogs didn't seem to be able to. Melian seems to have stayed in her same shape since she met her elven husband and until he died, at least. Even Morgoth didn't seem to have the power to disappear into a fluffy spirit by mid-FA.
I would say that it is more complex than that. It certainly is of consequence if you are in M-E for a prolonged time and if you stay fixed in one form. The rules are hazy, but I would say that Sauron had a particular talent that didn't apply to most Ainur, at least when being outside of the Undying Lands. Earlier days or later ages, may also have played a role.
Ëonwe and whoever Maiar that followed, took ships across the Belegaer sea and he seems to have stayed in one form during his campaign. If he just had the power to shapeshift into a great eagle or something, why did the real great eagles and Eärendil in his ship need to take on the winged dragons?
The longer an Ainur inhabited a particular form the more attached they became to it.
Tolkien did write that the Valar could “wear” different forms in the same way and with the same ease we can wear different sets of clothes… but, unless my memory’s failing me, he wrote that ONLY about the Valar. Not all the Ainur. So yeah, I guess that shapeshifting, at least among the Maiar, is specifically Sauron’s thing.
Also, now that I think about it, we mustn’t forget Tolkien’s Christian worldview. In Christianity, the body is an essential part of one’s identity, one’s essence, just as much as the soul. Your face, your hands, your hair, are an essential part of who YOU are, of who God made you to be. So it only makes sense that the power of shapeshifting, of constantly changing your body features, would be associated to Satan and his followers: because they renounced God, in a way they renounced their own identity. The fact that their body is ever changing, lost, unable to settle on a true form, reflects the fact that so is their soul.
@@rickblaine9670 Fair points. I wouldn't over-empathize his "Christian worldview" too much, though. In the beginning he was heavily influenced by pre-Christian pagan mythology. In his own words his Catholic overarch was always there, but grew stronger as he grew older. I still think that the Ainur should be seen as something in between Siegfried/Baldur/Loki/Väinämöinen and Michael, Gabriel or Satan.
Both viewpoints are necessary to understand their nature IMO.
I always think about how difficult it must have been for Annatar to feign being good for so many centuries. Like, is there actually much difference from pretending to be good and actually being good after such a long time? After centuries, did he ever feel temptation to just remain good forever because it's such a long time that perhaps he could even start to forget his past and stick to his fair persona forever? The inverse equivalent is a double agent that get so deeply involved in the evil faction that they themselves have to kill and torture people just to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the people they're infiltrating. At what point are you in so deep that you're literally just one of them now?
I recall seeing IDG or maybe someone else with a video on whether Sauron truly repented. I haven't seen it, but I suspect the answer has something to do with the Maiar being like angels/"separated intelligences", who have irreformable wills once they decide.
But, 'good' doesn't mean 'seeming helpful', it means 'helping to one's loss and to the benefit of others, with the benefit of others being the motive'.
His motives were for his ends, and his actions were to the unbeknownst detriment of others, so he was evil the whole time.
A good question but i dont think that was the case here. He wasnt doing good, from the moment he came to Eregion he was deceiving them into making the chains with which he will enslave them, not to mention he was fanning the flames of civil war leading to them rebelling of Galadriel and Celeborn
Intent matters. If the only reason why you live among foreign citizens, learn their language, and become good friends with them is for the purpose of learning how to utterly destroy them, then everything good you've ever done for them is polluted by that ill will.
Also, consider the wording of your question: "for so many centuries." Sauron, as a Maiar, has existed since before time began. Even if we only count the time since the Elves and Men first awoke in Middle Earth, that's still thousands of years. The inconceivably long time period of 500-ish years to us is barely any time at all for a being as ancient and timeless as him.
@@johnkeckI think the point at which you can't repent at any point in the legendarium is when you devote part of your essence to evil. Morgoth did this early on- it took Sauron until his ring to become irredeemable.
Love your videos man. Thanks for making them and sharing the lore.
It seems most of the mistakes and conflict of the first ages was born out of the Elves desire to remain immortal within Middle Earth as they would in the Undying Lands. Terrific video!👍
Annatar in the Rings of Power is magnificent. I really like the way he deceives folks. He's pretty much like I had always imagined Annatar to be.
Agree. Love the way he is represented in the show
Agreed, much of the show has been a complete mess... and yet Annatar and Adar, absolutely glorious!
I disagree. Rings of power has been of middling quality, but I can overlook most of it. The poor characterization and acting of Annatar has really bothered me. It reminds me how we were supposed to believe that Anakin Skywalker was this paragon of moral virtue lured tragically to the dark side. Annatar has been transparently evil - and Celebrimbor a farcical fool - from the get-go. There has been no compelling or believable arc to that story. The scene (no spoilers) at the end of S2E6 was a noteworthy exception. That was well done. Too bad the story is almost played out.
Thanks for this video. Very accurate and enjoyable as usual. I really enjoyed the art work! However, I disagree on one small point: Galadriel "scorning" Annatar does not mean she was a fundamentally "different" Galadriel than we see in the LoTR. Galadriel had come from Valinor, and had already sat at the feet of Melian for thousands of years, so she already had a fair whack of wisdom. Way back in the history, in Valinor, it seems Galadriel didn't fully trust Feanor either and refused to give him a lock of her hair when he requested it for some creation he had in mind. And she was right not to trust him. Look at all the trouble that ensued from his creation and obsession with the Silmarils. So when Galadriel scorns Annatar, she was simply once again showing she had more insight than many others, probably due to her experience in life and immense wisdom. The Amazon Rings of Puke belligerent, head strong, manipulative, "Commander of the North", brat Galadriel, who was taken in, (and is being shipped in a truly immature teenage way by the writers of this abysmal show), and had "feelings" for Sauron in disguise as Halbrand, shows no similar insight. Zero. The show depicts her as a fool, and a dishonest sneaky one at that. The RoP G woman - sorry Elf - does NOT AT ALL represent book Galadriel. Non book readers shouldn't continue to be fed the RoP propaganda that Galadriel completely swaps personality between the Silmarillion and the LoTRs. It's just not true.
The ROP woman represents a young woman of below average intelligence in her mid 20s. Not a character 1000s of years old and full of wisdom.
2:28 man... Jeffree Star really getting in on those side quests.
I've always wondered if Gandalf and the other wizards (other than Sarumon) and Sauron ever physically met face-to-face. That would have been an interesting conversation! It seems as if Gandalf has first-hand knowledge of Sauron--so perhaps they did.
Another beautiful video.
Sad will be the day this ends
Lord of gifts....SANTA??
Satan 😂
funny i thought the same thing. the elven santa. can't be anything bad about that guy, right? lol
Naughty Santa
@@GaryGillKeeper Billy Bob Thorton 😆
No. That's Lewis' gift giver.
Hi Robert! Great work as always. Could you do a video on the Unseen World? Not a lot of people talk about it.
They distrusted him on Vibes alone. I approve.
Thank you Robert, for not including anything, not even pictures from the Amazon R.o.P abomination! This is how I like to remember Tolkiens amazing work
I'm still not clear on whether "Annatar' was an established figure that Sauron impersonated, or whether he invented the identity whole-cloth
Would you consider doing a video explaining the different human cultures/peoples in LOTR like you did for the elves?
"Anna" is a finnish verb meaning "give (to me / someone else)" and "-tar" is a female being suffix. I got a chuckle watching Rings of Power every time it was said.
Annatar the Deceiver💍
The note of Sauron being particularly good at changes of hue is echoed in descriptions of Radagast. I wonder if the implication of similar phrases is that they're intended to have been comparable in terms of their shape shifting abilities.
This was a good video, but quite incomplete. It left out, among other things, the time that Galadriel decided to swim from near Valinor to Middle Earth and ran into Sauron (in disguise) in the middle of the ocean. How did it leave out the fact that, as Annatar, Sauron taught the great smith Celembrimbor the concept of alloys?
Awesome bro!
If the rings of power ended with the lord of gifts, giving Galadriel a squishy toy for her anger management issues I’d be very much more content than I am now😂
No mere squishy toy can control THE TEMPEST INSIDE HER 😂
Annatar got what the kids call AURA
As well as rizz
He was a hoopy frood
Skibidy
RoP spoilers
I was optimistic hearing that Annatar would feature, only for the reveal to be more underwhelming than last season Sauron reveal. The setup was great, only for the climax of the scene to look like Hal just quickly slapped on a wig and prosthetic ears. Not only does it make the cunning shapeshifting Maia look like a fool, but from a cinematography standpoint it disrupts Suspension of Disbelief. Obviously we know all the elves and dwarves have costume and make-up, we know Ian McKellen never grew his beard to play Gandalf, but It's not smart to have a shapeshifting character go from resembling the actor in real life, to then put the actor in a divine costume. All they needed to do was find a fresh new Twink actor who better plays the Annatar persona, don't know why they are bent over keeping one person to be the face of the very villain that made a bigger cultural icon for being face-less
So it seems "Rings of Power" is full on point regarding Galadriel's character.
The show is doing Annatar extremely well. One of the best characters on TV at the moment.
"if only more would listen to them"
Producer guy - then we would not have a story to write, a movie to make, billions to reap.
Ahh, I know this story; this is when Galadriel romanced Sauron...
Ahh, I know this person; she's the badass elf warrior who solos trolls, but only after the troll has killed her friends...
@@korganrocks3995 She is the one that can swim half the ocean without food/water.
She is also the one that gets really happy from riding a horse.
@@lmr4403 Ugh, we gotta stop this before I get mad all over again! 😄
@@korganrocks3995 Truly, ignorance is bliss. I have never watched RoP and never intend to, and everything I've ever heard about it has only reinforced that choice.
"romanced Sauron". Even though she's already married and had a child? Was RoP an NTR all along?
I wish the Amazon series would stick closer to lore and explain this in the wonders of the cinema. That being said, excellent video. I always enjoy learning new things about the Lord of the Rings.
Pride comes before the fall. Poor Celebrimbor.
Also, Galadriel as a woman getting a bad vibe off an attractive and popular Nice Guy, and getting flack for it, is I think a very relatable experience.
Women tend to have that ick feeling from people and others usually doesnt understand them especially men since they dont understand where this coming from. Having an high EQ,reading betweent the lines and understanding microexpressions sounds to them like a witchcraft or nonsense to them.
Theres also another parallel with Morgoth. In the 1st age Morgoth finds the elves before the Valar do and convinces them to be wary of the hunter Orome. This makes it hard for Orome to convince them to follow him to Aman. In the second age, Sauron assumes the Valar will send Maiar to guide the peoples of Middle Earth so he disguises himself as a helpful Maiar before they get the chance
"I am a plastic surgeon .... sent to you by the Valar" LOL
Annatar is one of the names I have always assumed to have its roots in Finnish. "Antaa" (to give) and its many forms, like the common "anna", when the name Annatar means "gift giver", seems like a word Tolkien might have come across and been inspired by.
Poor elves weren't used to internet companies so they weren't as aware yet that when an offer seems to be to good to be true it usually is.
I've always been thinking that Tolkien formed this name, Annatar, from Finnish which he famously studied. As in Finnish 'anna' means 'give'. Also in Finnish the -tar ending is in use, though differrentely (and it's also mostly historical these days, as it refers to woman in the said profession).
Elrond with the tin hat hahaha
Elvish is inspired by finnish. Anna means give. Duke is Hearttua and duchess is herttuatar. -tar ending is female version of nobility so he is "Lady who gives" :D
"Like he just stepped out of a salon!
Sauron expected!"
Truly some wonderfully thoughtful analysis to coincide with the underrated Amazon show. Your work has been delightful for years now. Please do continue on, and so forth. As you were.
If the one ring controls all others. Does this apply to the lesser rings that are mentioned, or not because sauron did not have any hand on their creation
This may seem like heresy to many, but this dive into Annatar makes me appreciate S2 of Rings of Power a lot more,
Woah woah wait a minute...vampires exist in Middlearth?
Existed. Supposedly they, and other horrors, were all destroyed during the war with Morgoth, but then again it was thought that about all the Balrogs too. (And they're only referred to, in passing, in a location that, to be very pedantic, doesn't qualify as Middle Earth.)
Stupid question but why wasnt celebrimbor high king instead of gil-galad?
If you ask me, the Valar wouldn't contradict themselves by sending an emissary to enable the Elves like that. They would not help them to stay in Middle Earth.
The treachery of Sauron was not he posed as a good "person" for men, elves and dwarves but that he really gave them knowledge and power, and the rings.
He only wronged everyone by forging the one ring [to rule them all] at the end of his master plan.
Ah but he was there with Aule, wasn't he Galadriel? Just... before you were born :)
In Deep Geek and Blackbelt Barrister are the same person and nothing you say will change my mind!
Sauron the master of disguise puts on a wig
It's awesome you use real art and not that AI crap
When a good-looking dude shows up at your door calling himself, "The Lord Of Gifts", it's kinda a good idea to tread carefully.
Another banger
Everyone was known by something else, their names were always changing. Turin, in The Children of Hurin, was called by at least half a dozen names. Sauron is known as the deceiver, a face changer as well as changing his name.
Thank you
For some reason the line about seeming fairer but feeling fouler really stuck with my 10 year old self I was devastated that Peter Jackson didn't include it in his movies. I also love that Ralph Bakshi included it in his animated film which I've always found to be far superior. Despite being way more abridged it seemed to capture the tone of Tolkien so much better.
As an aside Sheldon's girlfriend in the sitcom the Big Bang Theory is named Amy Farah Fowler (fairer fouler?) and I've always wondered if that was a deliberate reference to this line.
There's an extended version of the Trilogy that's 2 DVDs per movie and includes a _lot_ of material cut for the Theatrical Release. No Tom Bombadil, and a lot of the dialogue has been shifted around, but there's a lot more Tolkien to be found in that version.
@@bluesbest1 does it have the fairer/fouler line?
Honestly, I hate those movies so much I doubt I could subject myself to another 6 hours of them.
I hated them when I watched them in the theater. A few years ago I tried to rewatch them with my girlfriend and hated them just as much. She fell asleep during Return of the King and we never even bothered finishing it.
@@olliewilliams7753 Not in Bree itself, but as an aside to Merry when he asks essentially "Why are we trusting this guy?"
Personally, I spent far too much time watching the movies (RotK in particular) as a teenager to comprehend not liking it or falling asleep and never finishing it. How far in did you guys get?
@@bluesbest1I read the books at 17, watched the movies each on release day, and watched them on extended DVDs when they became available. Maybe I'm a casual fan of Tolkien but I thought the movies were great for recreating the locations and characters and tone and emotional signatures of so much of the books without making me memorize 50 nearly identical elf names.
Yes Peter Jackson made tons of changes, some good some bad, but 100 overly complex ambiguous characters without a strong identity makes for movies and TV that are dull and directionless. You have to make changes to adapt a work and sometimes reshuffle character moments. On a scale of 1 (total unwatchable butchery) to 10 (perfect yet compelling adaptation) I give LOTR extended editions an 8.5.
If you're curious I give the last four Harry Potter movies a 5, 4, 3, and 4 out of 10.
@@feldon27 Yeah, naming off 100 different characters and giving them a moderately complex backstory only for about 5 minutes of screentime is far easier in a written medium than a visual one. Looking rather pointedly at characters like the Elf Frodo, Sam and Pippin meet in the Shire, Glorfindel, and Tom Bombadil. Beloved characters, sure, but they mean a lot more to Frodo than they do to the story and cutting them out didn't detract from the story as much as people would expect. Especially when showing Gandalf's adventures in Isengard cuts out the majority of the Council of Elrond, where those three characters mattered most to the story.
You were far more generous to the Harry Potter films than I am. I personally rate the first 3 movies no lower than an 8 and the last 5 as no higher than a 4. My genuine, unironic feedback is: "Did they even try?" with maybe a little bit of "Did they even read the books?" sprinkled in. Take the first Potions lesson in HBP for example. Film Hermione sounds like she's obligated to say what she smelled, while Book Hermione is caught up in proving her knowledge and catches herself, clamming up when she realizes she's spilling private information. And did they slip Daniel Radcliffe drugs for the Felix Felicis part?
Anyway, that's another big difference that sets the Peter Jackson films apart from so many other adaptations. Every actor was highly experienced, everyone on set was constantly referencing the books for inspiration and direction, and they all clearly acted to the best of their abilities.
Sauron is one of the greatest villains of all time
I was having a lotr discussion with friends. I have never seen a single episode of Rings of Power nor would I want to, however my friends had. I was very confused when they're talking about some character called Halbrand and this being Sauron. I said the them, do you mean Annatar? The lord of gifts?
If this is case then this gives even more reason never to watch RoP. Tolkien's work need not be changed.
You know who The Maiar (fire spirit and shapeshifter) Mairon is?
He went to Valinor's smith The Valar "Aule" to learn the knowledge of forging.
But one thing to remember is: "in secret" he worked as the Chief Lieutenant of: Melkor "The Valar" also known as the first dark lord "Morgoth" which means: Chaos and Destruction.
Later Mairon(Maia) becomes the second dark lord "Sauron" (Lord of the Rings).
He suggests that Celebrimbor have his blacksmiths forge 16 power rings.
And it is these famous rings that are touched by Sauron's hands.
But without that: Sauron "knows" Celebrimbor makes his smiths forge 3 elven rings.
Sauron finds out and becomes angry.
Poor Celebrimbor is brutally killed by "Sauron's" spirit that haunts his soul and tortures him to death.
Sauron steals the 16 rings he has touched.
Disguises itself as a gift spirit and distributes nine to nine mortal Numenoreans (men) of royal blood and seven to seven Dwarven lords.
And this is: Anntar. Also for the sake of revenge to get control of these 16 rings, he forges a ring in Mordor's fire inside Doom (the volcanic mountain).
And puts it on his finger. A part of his powers is transferred into the ring.
And Hokus Pokus he "makes" nine "Morgul" army soldiers who are the most dangerous and deadliest of all his servants.
And this is: Ringwraiths`s "Nazgul". The last seven power rings of the 16.
Only gives Dragon sickness (Gold Fever).
Especially Thor of Erebor (Oakenshield's Dwarven kingdom).
When he sees gold, he just wants more and more and becomes obsessed with it.
Friends become Enemies.
And he becomes "Mad" in his "mind".
Just like the words of the dragon Smaug.
The wise dwarf with a long white beard makes a wise decision.
And asks Bilbo to "take care" of: the Arch Stone.
A shining blue precious treasure of the king (Oakenshield).
Because he sees that his friend Thor is not himself.
Bilbo agrees and puts it in his pocket.
And uses it as bait in the tent (where a conflict between the Mirkwood elf lord "Thranduil".
(Legolas`s: father).
And a human being.
And Thor,
Gandalf is at the scene trying to talk sense into Thranduil's mind.
But in vain.
Bilbo calls: Wait, I have something of interest.
He takes it out of his pocket and shows it off.
Thor gets angry.
Your thief.
But luckily he becomes himself again.
And says sorry to his other dwarf friends.
Who forgives him.
But unfortunately he loses his brother and dies himself in the confrontation with The Great White Orc and his son. Azog and Bolg.
But manages to defeat Azog, under the ice.
He also dies wounded and from blood loss. Bilbo mourns his friend's death and honors his memory.
By saying you are the bravest dwarf I have ever met.
Rest in peace, my friend.
The red haired elf lady, defends: her Dwarf "boyfriend" against: Bolg. Legolas with his bow and arrows joins the fight.
And in the last battle, his father joins the fight and his elven army.
It seems that in that scene Legolas has fallen in love with her red haired elf Lady.
And gets a little frustrated, and steps in and stops his father.
And says angrily: You have never loved, if you are going to kill her you must also kill me.
The father "explains" that I have "loved" your beautiful mother very much.
And the father advises his son to go on an adventure towards the "north".
And seek out him who is called: the wide wanderer.
(Which literally is Aragorn).
And "join" him and Gimli joins.
The three fight Orcs and Uruk-Hai and hide from "Saruman's flying black spies".
Suddenly out of the cave come wolves riding orcs at full speed.
And attacking.
They fight with their weapons.
An army from Rohan brings news from Rohan.
(A son of King Theoden "explains" to the three that his own father does not recognize his own flesh and blood, And that the spirit of Saruman has taken over Rohan and poisoned the king's mind).
Aragorn "explains" we are not spies, we are friends and allies.
Hello geek, this is in deep Robert
'Emissary of the Valar' is confusing. The Istari appeared disguised as aged humans, but it is never stated whether Annatar looks like a human, elf, maiar, or other supernatural being. So we don't know if Sauron is copying the future Istari appearance or just their mission.
I wonder if when the Ishtari first arrived the elves widely mistrusted them because they were making the same claim (being messengers of the Valar sent to help) that Annatar had.
It is funny how feminine "Annatar" sounds in Finnish. Anna is a female name and "tar" ending is used as feminine ending in names and titles, kinda like English "tress". Also it is fair to point out that "anna" would be imperative form of "give".
Was Sauron really Morgoths lieutenant? After Beren and Luthien defeat he disappears until after the War of Wrath. I reckon he went into hiding after the defeat to escape Morgoths rage. He was more cunning than people give him credit for. Also he spent far longer on Middle-Earth than Morgoths so he knew where to sit it out.
I've felt the "Lord of Gifts" sounds self-aggrandizing in a way that would cue the wise into his bad motives...
How and why did Sauron lose his ability to appear comely and charming?
When his body died at the destruction of Numenor.
Switched to Maybelline
I don't think he lost it, he just stopped using it after he got what he needed.
Thanks ❤❤
I think Sauron played a little on the discontent of the final remaining Feanorean faction of the lingering Noldor nobility in Middle-earth. From the beginning, their yielding of preeminence to their Fingolfin/Finarfin cousins was grudging. I think Tolkien would’ve ultimately settled on the Gwaith-i-Mírdain usurpation of rule over the realm of Eregion from Galadriel & Celeborn. Their reticence to commission the undertaking of learning & crafting Rings of Power, the unspoken pretext. Only the scion of Feanor possessed the ambition, & indeed the lineage, to seek such power & craft. Some of this reasoning sounds straight from Annatar’s lips, I’d bet
This fanfic sound so much better Than The Ringsof Power, somebody should hire this writer
Soooo... All of Tolkien's darlings among the elves suspected him for no reason.
If I was an elf in middle earth I would've figured out quickly to never distrust Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf or any vague premonition they have
Not enough jokes about wigs yet. Gotta return later