Sauron vs Morgoth | Who Was More Evil? Differences and Similarities Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Discover the differences and similarities between the two dark lords of Middle-Earth. What were to motivations and tactics used by Sauron and Morgoth as they pursued very different goals.
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Who would you back to come out on top in a head to head battle for Middle Earth?
Morgoth with his vast powerful armies, or Sauron, the cunning tactician…?
Morgoth is more powerful than all the Valar. If he was at his peak, Morgoth would wipe the floor with Sauron.
*Morgoth,* hands down, would crush Sauron.
Tough question....Morgoth never entered battles. He poured his power to shape the world, make dragons and beasts. All the balrogs would fight by his side. Sauron, knowing this would have to pretend to be an ally while only using orcs to stop Morgoth. That would be futile. My guess is the only way sauron could win would be to wait till morgoth spends most of his power making evil things, then assassinate morgoth himself while alone, and blame it on the Valor.
Morgoth, he has better forces (balrogs and dragons) and is far more powerful
@@FairlyFictional If Sauron thought he could beat him he wouldn’t be his servant in the first age
Morgoth makes sauron look like a saint😢😢
In dnd terms, Morgoth is chaotic evil while Sauron is lawful evil
I was thinking that, myself.
Sauron was a servant of Morgoth, even until the end. During his incarceration at Numenor, he created a religious sect to worship Morgoth.
Sauron only served Morgoth out of wish for power, not out of fealty and loyalty he was first attracted to him because of his power, but Morgoth ends was never of his. Sauron only served as long as he was around, the moment Morgoth was removed from the equation it didn’t take long before he pursued his own ends. This ends might have been influenced by Morgoth will he inflicted on the world, but he didn’t serve him in second and third age in the true meaning of the word.
He used Morgoth name only to achieve his own goals not really because he served him at that point.
He did not object to the world or how it looked, he had no standing issues with the creation nor the children in it. The deepest wish within him was to control and coordinate it, as this was how he were created by iluvitar , he never abandoned his purpose it just got corrected so it took the form of evil rather than that of good. Sauron in fact disliked chaos, anarchy, friction and destruction all what Morgoth stood for. He even repented his actions under Morgoth when he was defeated he was demanded back for the verdict of Manwë but out of shame and humiliation he remained and returned back to evil ways. So he where never the true evil at that point, it where something that where allowed to grow.
This
That is a misconception Sauron was loyal to Morgoth in the beginning, but I'm not sure he would feel the same in the event of Morgoth's return. During the events surrounding the fall of Numenor, Sauron gradually shifted his influence over men from having them worship Morgoth, to having them worship himself. In fact, it's heavily implied that this was his strategy the entire time. I believe that Sauron emulated his master in all that he did, including his insatiable lust for PERSONAL power.
This quote makes it clear that Sauron was only loyal to Morgoth during the First Age, and that after the First Age, Sauron no longer adored Morgoth.
….Melkor, whom in the beginning he [Sauron] had adored.
HOME, Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed
When Sauron himself took up the mantle of the Dark lord during Second Age he had forsook his loyalty to Morgoth, and Morgoth was of no concern to him anymore.
The only reason Sauron built a temple in worship of Morgoth was because he was a prisoner in Númenor and thus was hardly in a position to present himself as a deity.
(Tolkien's letters)
Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power.
(Morgoth's Ring ) Sauron wanted to be worshiped and seen as a God; not as a loyal servant of a greater power. He used Morgoth's name for his own gains and to progress his self-centered motives.
(Tolkien, J. R. R. The History of Middle-Earth X: Morgoth’s Ring)
He[Sauron] probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Eä, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more.
When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned. (Tolkien-Letter 183)
Not till the end no. He used Morgoth's name as a tool because he was known as an incredibly powerful force from the previous wars. He used the promise of his power and immortality to manipulate Numinor but he at no point actually wanted Morgoth to come back and take over as the Dark Lord when he was trying to be the same thing.
@@mikni4069dude souron was very loyal to morgoth but he saw that morgoth wanted to destroy evryting that is life coz morgoth couldn’t create life him self coz he was higher being then souron or the other wizards
I need to see Morgoth in cinema
That would be awesome 🤩
Think it would be too expensive to produce😅
I feel like Morgoth is more evil because of his intentions. As to where Sauron just wanted to see out his vision of a world with perfect order, it still came from a good place as he thought that was the best option for everyone. Morgoth on the other hand, just wanted to fucking destroy everything
Morgoth is much more evil morgoth want to destroy evryting coz he couldn’t create live he was a valar much more powerful then souron
@@RuqiyaOsman-yw5pv well done you just reiterated the video.
I think so to
It's about time Peter Jackson got some Morgoth stories on to film .
It would be good to see. Though dark and scary. Not like the hobbit movies.
Morgoth screaming at the bunny 2:19 had me in stitches :D
🤣😜
Morgoth was motivated by sheer hate and the want to undo everything. He was chaos personified. Sauron was motivated be a need for the world to be “orderly” according to his own twisted vision. He didn’t want to just destroy everything the way Morgoth did. They were both *EVIL* but Morgoth ranks higher on the “evil” scale when compared to Sauron 🤷🏻♀️
It could depend on what someone finds more evil.
Morgoth wanted the world to burn. But, that could be considered more merciful than Sauron wanting to subjugated and dominate for all time.
There is some merit to quick death being better than life of brutal misery.
I like to think Morgoth warped Sauron's psyche into the evil entity that we know from LotR. Sauron is sort of a victim just like all the "evil" things that Morgoth corrupted. I feel like Sauron would just be your typical, orderly control freak if Morgoth didn't corrupt him.
The attack style of Morgoth and the Blitzkrieg comparison is a good one.
Not really. The Blitz was primarily effective because it meticulously planned and had specific strategic goals. The idea wasn’t to throw everything at the enemy front line. Rather, the idea was to identify the weakest points along a line and target it with overwhelming force, break thru and advance to critical strategic points behind the enemy line before serious counter measures could be enacted.
Another solid video. I like how you compared and contrasted the ethos of each villain. Morgoth seems to be akin to the impetuous nature of a teenager who lashes out with reckless abandon and wants to see the world, burn while Sauron, being more cunning and strategic, wants to subjugate all forms of life to his will. I wonder if Sauron had been imbued with the same level of power as Morgoth, and given his strategic way of thinking, could he have succeeded in achieving his ultimate goal?
One of the questions I wish we could ask Tolkien if he was alive.
He couldn’t because Tolkien said that Eru would never let Evil win but I agree that Sauron would be a greater threat
If Sauron been a Valar he would been a far bigger problem as he only wanted control and used others in cunning ways to get there.
However the question is would he ever turn evil, I honestly don’t think he would. it was Morgoth that corrupted him into the evil being, that would never have happened if he was his almost equal, he would have been an enemy of Morgoth not an ally. Even if power were reversed, I doubt he would have turned evil he needed someone to corrupt him and speak the words in his ears, without Morgoth that was never going to happen on its own.
Well said and yeah, I think a being imbued with the chaos of Morgoth and the strategy and desire of Sauron would have bested all the Maiar in Middle Earth. That's why the Valar sent 5 Maiar (each equal in power to Sauron) to Middle Earth exactly because of the reason you bring up. The Valar didn't know if Sauron was as calculating as he was AND chaotic as Morgoth. Better send 5 gangsters to shut him down. Amazing that it only took 1 Maiar and a few hobbits to do the job.
Edit: And a new King of course. They needed him as well.
@@ichigen511 They only bested him because of his mistake of putting his essence into a physical thing, that and because it was the will of illuvitar
I believe that Morgoth was evil, and Sauron was quasi-evil. The margarine of evil. The Diet Coke of evil. Just one calorie, not evil enough.
Im fucking dead 🤣🤣. Stop it.
I LOVE the artwork in this video, but the question is silly. Newbies to Tolkien's world who have maybe read the LOTR and The Hobbit (and/or watched the movies) are prone to be much more familiar with Sauron, and probably more likely to think of him as the ultimate evil, but anyone who has actually READ the Silmarillion would know that Melkor/Morgoth is on a different level entirely. Sauron was a Maiar, of the same order of existence as Gandalf and Saruman, whereas Morgoth was not only a VALAR, but, in Tolkien's words " the mightiest of all the Valar" as evidenced by the fact that all of the other Valar had to combine their forces just to stop him. It's not a close comparison.
This is true, however the gap between Morgoth and Sauron would be narrower. Morgoth used up much of his native power in the marring of Arda. After the initial War of the Powers, when Melkor is defeated the first time, Manwe notes that Melkor's stature is now less than his own. Sauron did similar things, such as his ring making, but far less often and far smaller in scale. Still, I would agree that Morgoth>Sauron in final analysis, if only due to the degree of evil.
According g to a direct quote from JRR Tolkien, in the books he states “Sauron was as close to the wholly embodiment of evils will as is possible” meaning there was no more evil being than Sauron, so he and Morgoth were likely just as evil as each other, Morgoth was just chaotic evil while Sauron was controlled evil
the key to this quote is "evils will" not evil itself evil is referring to morgoth and sauron carrying his will
@@reyrey9752 according to who? That’s how your choosing to interpret it, but that may not be what was meant by it
@@reyrey9752 it’s another wording for “the embodiment of evil”
Morgoth wanted to destroy everything sauron did not so on the ranks of evil morgoth is depicted and stated to be of an higher evil and no that's not an interpretation that's literally what Tolkien intended.
@@TheemptythroneistakenYes Morgoths existence and Eru not extinguishing Morgoth without a bloody war just doesn't sit right. Sauron existence and Eru only sending advisors to help humans whiles calling the Elves away was a test. A referendum on Eru's decision to give human's free will at the expense of order. I believe Eru would have allowed Sauron to rule Middle Earth for age until "worthy and righteous humans" called for mercy and help overthrowing Sauron. Eru would have never allowed Morgoth to rule or destroy 90% of all creation. That is why I consider Morgoth more evil. Morgoth is on a different level that even Satan featured in Christian tradition and more powerful in a sense. Morgoth was so powerful and evil that his existence is seal off in an oblivion that can't interact with any realm with living beings or immortals. Defeated disembodied Sauron of the 4th age is in a similar predicament but from my understanding his spirit can walk middle earth but not interact with it. Maybe evil beings can still feel his evil auroa when he is near magnifying their evil feeling in unfocused and random ways.
Sauron was a Demon. Morgoth is the Devil. There's no contest.
Sauron is saruman level, nothing special imho
@@SWOTHDRA lol what? sauron is saruman level?? you realize that Maiar's powers varied GREATLY right? Being a Maiar doesn't make you equal to all the others. Sauron was said to be by far one of the strongest of all the Maiar.
There's a reason Sauron was a servant of Melkor. Melkor wanted to destroy the creations of Eru. Sauron wanted perfect order from chaos. Those motivations are hugely different. One is like creating hell for everyone and the other is kind of like the saying of good intentions are the road to hell.
Melkor is more evil and more powerful. The valar had to join together to defeat Morgoth.
Morgoth was literally the source of all corruption in creation, including Sauron’s from when he was a Maiar aswell as every shadow & ounce of depravity in middle earth, which is why middle earth was described as ‘Morgoths Ring’
The answer is clear
A lot of people don’t realize the War with Morgoth was extremely and I mean *EXTREMELY* more violent, longer, and wiped out many nations and their people! War of the Silmarils was just terrifying. All out war which shook the lands and waters alike.
Would make a good R rated movie 🤔
Definitely Morgoth, I mean as I understand it Melkor literally brought evil into the world by creating a tune to oppose that of Eru Illuvitar.
Just discovered this channel . It’s EPIC I subscribed so fast .
Thank you for saying so. I’m glad you like it. 😊🙏🏼
Control everything versus Destroy everything.
I always felt they were equally evil just different in how destructive they were. *edit* With that being said I feel like Sauron would come up short against Morgoth but ultimately win utilizing his leadership/plans to orchestrate chaos as he does.
tho sauron may have been more strategic, I do feel that by sheer power (and the fact that Morgoth was close to a god) morgoth would have won.
Depends when in the timeline you’re talking. At the beginning of Arda Morgoth was easily the most powerful being who was only second to Eru himself in terms of power. However Morgoth used pretty much all of his power on creating and corrupting his servants and armies as well as the land itself. Towards the end of the war of Wrath, Morgoth became extremely weak and would’ve been surpassed by Sauron due to Sauron not losing any of his power.
It took the combined might of all the valar to defeat morgoth and even then they were close to being defeated themselves! Morgoth is literally the reason all evil even exists in the world of middle earth since it was he who was the one who added that little detail within the song of creation his evil is so great that it is said his being is not dead but trapped in the void until dagor dagorath (The end of everything) for which he will be the harbinger of that destruction.
Is that even a question? Morgoth made Sauron into the evil being, without Morgoth there would be no Sauron… Sauron evil all stem from Morgoth and he was mainly pursued by his obsession with order and control and for thousands of years Sauron could still take on a fair form one of the reasons why Morgoth was interested in him. while Sauron where corrupted he was not pure evil until later on.
Morgoth wants to corrupt and destroy everything created by the Valar and Eru himself, he despises and envied the gift given to the children and what was created by them and the other Valars. He wanted to possess them, ultimately create a world in his own image, which was anarchy, largely he wanted to replace iluvatar himself.
Sauron evil was just of far less magnitude. Sauron did not hate the children, he multiple times used them to his own end to create a world of order and to gain power. He had no wish to corrupt or to destroy only to control and create a world of order, basically a tyrant.
Sauron never had the all consumed hate for iluvatar children that Morgoth had, he just wanted to be their master, to control them, this was why he made the rings of power. It was first when he figured out he could never control the elves and they went against him in the last alliance he started to truly hate them, but never to the extent Morgoth did.
Their end could not possibly be any more different
False. So, according to JRR Tolkien himself, “Sauron was only less evil than Morgoth in that for a while, he served someone other than himself.” And “Sauron was as close to the wholly embodiment of evils will as Is possible”
@@xsoundofsil3nc3x96 Morgoth is the equivalent of Satan in Christianity or in norse mythology Loki, both of which he is inspired by. There is no equivalent or worse evil in Tolkien universe as he is the creator of evil, without him there would been no Sauron, he would have remained Mairon a servant of Aulè
Sauron is mainly just a tyrant like the mythical creature he is inspired by Balor, on top there clear reference to the serpent of eden, Mephistopheles and other devil like figures and tyrant of his time. He is a lesser power and evil, it is quite easy to understand from the source material, he only became because of two things he where corrupted by Morgoth and after he was defeated a power vacuum arose that he used to gain power. He even repented after Morgoth final defeat at the end of first age, at that point he was not pure evil but a corrupted Maia mainly that liked the power he had gained.
But most of all things he liked order and domination
So it’s a different type of evil, an evil more like found in men more than that pure evil described in Morgoth
@@mikni4069 according to the writer of the books, the creator of the series, the one who thought up of all of this stuff, Sauron and Morgoth were equally evil, they were both “The Devil”, but embodied different types of evil. Morgoth represented destruction and hate, Sauron embodied tyranny and deceit. Both were the physical embodiment of evil, just two different kinds of evil
@@xsoundofsil3nc3x96 And he also wrote he were a lesser evil a couple of times, there many contradictory statements made by Tolkien in his unfinished work… He said his work wasn’t an allegory but then some part was.. The amount of times he contradicted and changed his mind is well known.
💯. I don't see the point of comparing them. Morgoth is evil in itself. As long as he still exists, evil will always find a way. Without Morgoth, there'd be no Sauron, Balrogs, Ungoliant, Dark forests, Trolls, Orcs and there would be no divide between the Blessed realm and middle earth. It would all be harmony, for the Ainur, all the children of Illuvatar, the children of Aüle, all the lights of Varda, all the creatures and plants of Kementari and Nienna would have never shed a single tear for Arda.
Basic answer is Melkor. Melkor was so enraged by not having the secret fire he set out to corrupt everything made by Eru Illuvitar. Whereas Sauron being a Maiar of Aule wanted Regimentation and order of the world and wanted dominion over all of it.
Morgoth- Chaotic Evil: wanted to corrupt and destroy Eru’s creations
Sauron- Lawful Evil: wanted to create a world controlled solely by him.
Morgoth is more like Genghis Khan/ Tamerlane
Sauron is like Stalin/ Mao/ some aspects of mustache man
Almost good comparisson, but Tamerlan more like Sauron: he created the Timurid Empire, he made Samarkand the world capital of knowledge by capturing the scientists and scholars from the cities he captured and moved them to Sanarkand, and he created schools for them to teach.
One side he was bloodthirthty cruel dictator, but on the other he created an Empire where science flourished.
So Tamerlane more Sauron than Morgoth.
Seems like Morgoth had more unhinged hatred, whereas Sauron had more calculated evil.
Morgoth is chaos,Sauron is control.Morgoth is supremely more powerful no doubt
This is a strange question. The very concept of evil in this mythos IS Morgoth. Similar to Christianity/Judaism/Islam with how evil IS Satan/Lucifer. The term evil is basically anything in opposition of the supreme God. In Tolkien's mythos, Eru is the supreme God. Morgoth is evil because he is in opposition of Eru's vision. Eru's vision if "good". Anything else is evil. Though I suppose there is some wiggle room there with how the Dwarves came about. But that's a deeper conversation regarding free-will of the Valar or really anything else, similar to real life Abrahamic religions. If anything other than God's vision is evil, then it's absurd to expect creatures made by an omnipotent being and given free-will to somehow perfectly align with that vision. So, in a sense, one could argue that the concept of evil is irrelevant.
But anyways... Clearly the one that is the embodiment of the entire concept of evil, is the most evil. My interpretation of Sauron is that he isn't so much evil as he is lustful for power and control. He doesn't want to annihilate Middle Earth. He wants to dominate it and rule over the people. He's like a control freak that desires order which isn't inherently bad. But Morgoth, because he IS evil, was able to warp Sauron's desires and nature into the evil entity we know from LotR.
I'd say Morgoth would be more evil. He rebelled against Eru and wanted to destroy and corrupt as much as he could out of spite to Eru. Very similar to real world Satan. Sauron moreso wanted to be in charge of it all. Regardless I think we could all agree Morgoth is waaay more powerful.
More powerful to begin with. However, by the end of First Age he had bled so much of his power to corrupt Arda that he's a shadow of his former self.
Of the greater evils: Lucifernian (will to power, rebellion) -> Ahrimanaic (desire for total control and conformity, Sauron) -> Sorathic (evil for its own sake, desire to unmake all things and return to formless chaos) Morgoth is close to the last, but excludes himself from being unmade.
2:16 Morgoth should have just sent a werewolf to guard his mushrooms from rabbits, it seems beneath a Dark Lord's attention. Rabbits don't even eat mushrooms. Sauron never wasted time with mushrooms. I assume Mushrooms symbolize Death and Decay
Morgoth was enormously more powerful. Sauron had to be crafty and hidden like a sleaze bag. At least with Morgoth, he would walk right up to you with a backhand slap readied.
Morgoth had pure hatred. Sauron mostly wanted power
Morgoth has very similar characteristics to the Lucifier Morningstar.
Yeh I had that in the script but took it out. Will probably cover it in another vodeo
Great video of a super topic!
Morgoth was far more evil and stupid in his ambitions than Sauron, Morgoth wanted to destroy or corrupt all life on earth because it was offensive to him. Sauron wanted to be a godlike ruler that reordered things according to his own vision of progress.
Lawful Evil vs. Chaotic Evil.
How do speculate the end result of a one on one with Sauron vs. Fingolfin?
A more balanced accounting of events would be appreciated. Were there any attempts made to obtain statements from Morgoth and Sauron regarding the true nature of what transpired?
We reached out to their representatives for comment but they were unwilling to respond to the accusations levied against them. 🫣
Love the video
Love this comment 😉
I would have thought given his strength and malice that Morgoth would have wanted to join the fray. If it was me I would have wanted to watch my enemies burn by my own hand.
Morgoth is the most evil of the two for it was him that turned Sauron to the dark side.
But Sauron may have been more cunning.
Great topic, I like it.
Morgoth => Chaotic evil
Sauron => Legal evil
Sauron was Morgoths lieutenant before he was thrown into the void
That background noise should be changed or taken out in this video its lessening the video
I've often wondered if Sauron, being the cunning tactician that he was, had played a role in bringing down Morgoth. What if he had helped in weakening him over the years or just simply putting him in a position to be dealt with by their enemies, while he slipped away to let the fallout occur and then start rising to take Morgoth's place.
Would be cool if that were true 🤔. Where was he exactly when Morgoth was defeated 🫣😝..
Wasn't he arrested after the war of wrath only to use his cunning and trickery to deceive the elves into believing he was just a victim of morgoths influence and that from that point on he would do good.
Sauron is the more calculating of the two, he would be patient and find a way to destroy Morgoth
i agree
Sometimes sheer power overcomes tactics and calculations therefore there strengths is also there weakness ..
Morgoth gave everyone something to do
I'll put it this way: If you took Sauron and scaled him up to Morgoth's power level, he would take over the universe and find a way to defeat Eru. Proof? Eru intervened several times personally to limit Sauron so he wouldn't rule over all of Middle Earth because he would have if he just let things play out. Sauron took over Numinor by just being an advisor and mobilized an invasion on freaking Valinor which Eru had to stop and then apparently thought it necessary to turn it into Atlantis. Morgoth on the other hand was just angry and pathetic but naturally gifted.
In need, they can always have Tulkas fold his clothes with him inside them
Morgoth(a Vala) known as the first dark lord. (formerly known as Melkor).
He cannot create any thing, only Eru Illuvatar can create.
Everything was part of Eru's song.
Vala Melkor (Morgoth) made his own song.
Known as Elvish, but on a heavy measure that few speak.
"Black-Speech".
Vala Melkor(Morgoth) does not crush Sauron.
Sauron (a Maia) also known as the other Dark Lord.
(formerly known as Mairon, the shapeshifter and the hottest and most powerful fire spirit of all fire spirits).
He was Melkor/Morgoth's ally and Mairon/Sauron was his chief lieutenant. That is, Melkor/Morgoth was Mairon/Sauron's Master.
Vala is a higher being than Maia.
But the most powerful and Strongest of all beings is the Creator God Eru Illuvatar.
Melkor(Morgoth) made dragons and Ungoliath and Balrogs and Orcs.
He kidnapped the first Maia to awaken in Arda, locked them up, tortured them and manipulated them, so that they became corrupt in heart and mind.
And changed shape.
Some became Balrogs and others Orcs.
Who served Melkor(Morgoth) loyally.
When Sauron took over his master's wish only the Orcs served him.
And in a point of view, Shelob too.
She became a guardian. She took anyone who tried to stop Sauron's plan as food. It was a deal she made.
So did Gollum.
What's this got to do with Voldemort?
Just an interesting similarity between 3 dark lords 🙄. I’m sure Voldemort probably read the books 😉
This video is misnamed. It discusses Order, versus Chaos, which has nothing to do with Good and/or Evil. It also touches on Cowardice versus Bravery, which, again, has nothing to do with Good or Evil.
In gaming terms, you're comparing Chaotic Evil versus Lawful Evil. BOTH are "evil," so . . . what's the point? In truth, neither was more, or less, "evil." They were simply "evil" in different ways.
Morgoth is evil incarnate, you can’t top him lol
In a direct head to head confrontation theirs no Question Morgoth stomps him no Question but that would never be he’s approach to handling Morgoth Anyway .as in character he only personally stepped in to fight Gil- galad and Elendil when he either believed he led them into a trap and already won or he had to fight them or risk defeat
Morgoth is/was the original and most powerful Evil.
Morgoth. He was the source of evil in Middle Earth. By the time Sauron fell he, himself, was more powerful than Morgoth but that’s only because Morgoth had diminished his own power so much by infusing the greater part of his spirit into the corruption of the entire world.
Sauron had the One Ring but, for Morgoth, the entire world was his “Ring”. Which is why, eventually, he will return for the final battle at the end of days. To truly defeat Morgoth forever, you must destroy the world.
These two are astronomical powerlevel difference. Can't compare
Power levels aren't really linear in Tolkien's universe. Maiar (like Sauron or a Balrog) and dragons have been defeated by men and elves, Gandalf the White had genuine concerns about the Witch-King in ROTK despite having faced down all nine Nazgûl as Gandalf the Grey, etc. Power itself is based more around words, language, and the environment, more so than a character's 'power level', so to speak.
@@Scarecrow545
And the will of Eru lol. Gandalf vs Balrog = gandalf loss. Gandalf vs Balrog without any restrictions = basically a tie
@@Scarecrow545 Morgoth as the backdrop of lotr was the exception. Even in its weakened state, he was supreme as a Valar until his peers showed up to defeat him for good. There was zero chance for the elves or the other Maiars. That's why Sauron cannot be compared to Morgoth.
@@TelpPov I understand, I just think in general these /r/whowouldwin debates are not in the spirit of how power works in LOTR, etc, both thematically ('even the smallest person can make a difference') and narratively/within the logic of the story (aforementioned examples).
When comparing a “who would win” scenario between these two, remember that for all his power Morgoth rarely entered the battle.
It would largely come down to the forces at their disposal and tactics employed.
Morgoth had some heavy hitters but Sauron maybe more cunning.
From the fairytale called Bible Lucifer is like Sauron 🤔
I think Morgoth more closely resembles Lucifer actually.
Morgoth was really a pathetic devil. For one he almost got killed by a giant spider, he felt repentant when he gazed upon the Silmarils and then he got stabbed in the shin a grievous wound he didn't recover from.😅😅😅
And yet he made it work
That same spider would kill sauron even at his most powerful.
Morgoth was Satan basically, Sauron would be his chief demon essentially
Sauron was servent of Morgoth ,there is no comparasion here
Morgoth. I'm surprised its even in question, if I'm honest.
It would seem Sauron's cunning and patience would be too much for Morgoth if they were direct foes. Great comparison and contrast of the two, by the way.
Thanks. I’d like to think so too.
One of the most interesting aspects of Morgoth is that at least in two instances we see him having weakness for beauty. One is when Luthien dances an he falls under a spell and the second is when he steals the Silmarills and almost gets eaten by Ungoliant.Of course, that these are dark obsessions but with Sauron one never sees him exposing any kind of weakness and for this reason I think Sauron is much evil .
Some nice thinking there 👍🏼
Morgoth at the end of his reign was weak. So him vs Sauron at his prime with the one ring, sauron have more chance to be superior.
He’s more smart and have been on Arda for three ages. Morgoth only one age.
Morgoth want destruction, sauron want domination
Your voice is perfect for stories. There are so many TH-camrs who have great stories, but their voices ruin it. Yours fits perfect for lord of the rings. Now I got 2 people to listen to when it comes to this franchise u a nerd of the rings. However, your story is a bit wrong morgoth was never beaten they had to seal him away. Only tom stands a chance against morgoth sauron is nothing to morgoth a bug.
Thanks for the comment 😊. I’m glad you like the video. I try to do a calm narrating sort of voice. Yeh, Morgoth was never killed of destroyed, but I I counted his capture and chaining in the void as a defeat.
@FairlyFictional yeah it's good. Keep it up. And fair enough, I just love morgoth so much whenever I hear people say he was defeated. I always say hell, nah, he got sealed. that's not the same, haha. But you're right he technically was defeated. I truly believe if Tolkien was alive, he would have bought morgoth back for the grand finally. I just love in the books that all their stories eventually come to an end.
I do have another video about Morgoth. Though you might not like how that ended for him 😅. It’s also narrated by Krug, my pet orc who I sometimes get to narrate evil stories 🙄.
Saying that the ultimate failures of the LOTR characters of Morgoth and Sauron should have been a cautionary tale for the Lord Voldemort character of Harry Potter (@ 7:50) is kinda like saying the tale of the failure of DUNE's Bene Gesserit order ought to have been a cautionary tale for Darth Sidious who was trying to also establish a Sith Empire in Star Wars (or the other way around, depending on if your chronological order depends on when hey were written, or when they likely happened in relation to each other). It really doesn't matter as they are entirely separate, and none of these have any bearing on one another.
I just think mentioning Lord Voldemort here is entirely out of place, and lowers the overall quality of your otherwise well done video.
Thanks for the feedback. Though Harry Potter existed in the “real” world so it’s entirely possible they had read or were at least aware of LOTR in their world.
@@FairlyFictional Fair point.
Thank you for the reply. :)
Head to head Morgoth would crush Sauron. Plus Morgoth had the Balrog's. The only way Sauron could win is if he could manipulate Morgoth into spending his power. But that would take ages.
7:49 am I missing something? Why is there a Harry Potter reference? 🤷🏽♂️
Just for fun 🙄…
@@FairlyFictional oh hahaha 😂 my bad 🙃
@ 7:51 Lord Voldemort???
Yup. He definitely would have read Tolkien. 😜
I know right 😂
Morgoth was a Morgoth. Pure evil with no doubt how to fight, exterminate and at least how to determine and execute his decisions in any moment. With long live agresion Sauron has learned how to survive and to give a hope to all living beings. Balrogs anyway belong to Morgoth, which Sauron can only Dreams about it. Morgoth was a pure evil person, while Marion has learned a lesson from him. Simple Morgoth was much more evil, while Sauron was smarter due to his Master mistakes. He was learnining through a time.
According to The Acolyte, Morgoth did nothing wrong.
Is tgia chatgpt?
The one above all who created them, created Morgoth to do what he did. and Sauron... The ring was meant to pass to bilbo, so Melkor was meant to attack middle earth, was meant to lose, and sauron was meant to take over. Create the ring, lose the ring, the ring passes to gollum by intent, passes to Bilbo as he was meant to have it. And Thus frodo was meant to be the ring bearer and Gollum was meant to overpower frodo at the end and fall in the fires of mount doom, destroying the ring and sauron... So sauron was meant to die. And middle earth was meant to be inherited by humanity. Who eventually created black magic cults who became evil. ( Today's world is rulled by secret cults. Occultic symbols. etc... )
The original earth for middle earth was flat with an encirircling sea, in the shape of the ALL seeing eye, freeze water and you get ice, so the encircling sea is the icewall.
Game of thrones, had an icewall... Middle earth is changed and seas consume most of westren middle earth... It became a planet.
Emerald tablets of thoth has a chapter where god changes the earth so that the ocean could consume Atlantis...
Tolkien acted as someone who possessed secret knowledge which he used to build his stories.
After sauron, humanity inherits middle earth... and this becomes modern civilization... Think about it.
More evil? that's like asking which is brightest between fire and light ....
What's faster, an F1 or Velocity 🤪
Both were as evil as each other through self agendas.....Power isn't always about physical strength but the support given by society or Nation's to 1 individual, both Morgoth and Sauron were advanced entities but beaten by defiance....Morgoth was beaten by Sauron's defiance and Sauron defeated by the defiance of Middle Earth, to live as a slave or not to live at all was the choice on the table but to fight both combine would have been a impossible task so Morgoth had to be stopped first, if Morgoth had the traits of Sauron the battle for Middle Earth would have been lost, but it shows the support of Morgoth's Armies either choose annihilation as the answer or didn't think about the end result of their Campaign.
It is obvious who won. The last man standing.
Sauron got stronger by making the one ring while Melkor got weaker. prime to prime Melkor would still win. Even so I find Sauron more respectable because he was efficient and smart. give them equal power and Sauron stomps Melkor. It's not just that Sauron is smart it's also that Melkor is the kind of person Sauron could easily provoke and manipulate and catch lacking. Melkor is more evil because Sauron does things for what he thinks is a good purpose. Despite creating the one ring which is the symbol of corruption through power, Sauron fell victim to this before the one ring ever existed. The Valar wouldn't teach him everything he would need to put his vision into practice. by alligning himself with Melkor he thought he could simply get there faster. Over time his vision of order became an obsession with control and dominace and the once noble ambitions turned evil. Melkor apparently wanted smoke since the beginning of time and started shit right away.
This is the bible told. Good v evil the light and darkness. Like the fallen angel all leading to revelations.
In a direct 1v1 fight Morgath or Melkor was the more powerful, but from a strategic view, we're it a true war, hard to say, depends on how many of the powerful beings Sauron could turn to his cause.
So who created gandalf and the wizards?
That would have been Eru Illuvatar.
@@FairlyFictionalsound annatar
Sauron is an evil 😈 genius. All hail lord Sauron ❤
Morgoth was far more powerful, it took an army of gods to defeat him.
Why she mentions voldermordt 🤣
🤪
Make Morgoth Bauglir great again ! ^___^
How does voldemort relate to sauron 🙄
Don’t take it so seriously. It’s just funny all dark lords seem to have the same weakness..
Neither they both wanted to settle down with children and there make believe 🤙🏻🤙🏻
Morgoth was chaotic, not strategic, especially compared to Sauron? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Creating dragons, sowing subtle discontent amongst Feonor and the Noldor in Valinor througb lie & rumor, enlisting Ungoliant to help extinguish the light of the trees and steal the Silmarils, breeding orcs & trolls, toppling the elven kingdoms of Middle-Earth, one by one, the list goes on and on. Melkor used stealth and guile, to great success. His actions may have sowed chaos, but they were far more strategic than Sauron could ever hope to be. And on a worldwide scale, corrupting the very fabric of Arda for all time. Sauron is a lap dog, by comparison.
Morgoth very easily.
Morgoth my miles man
Why did you mention Lord Valdamort? 😂
It's kinda funny right? "yeah Voldemort, should've learned from those 2 dark lords you had no way of knowing about because they're in a different universe. silly boy"
Well Harry Potter and Lord V lived in the “real world”. So there’s every chance they would have been aware of, if not read the LOTR books already 🤔. And it’s just odd how all 3 made the same mistake 😅
This is a foolish question. Morgoth is the very embodiment of evil itself. Morgoth’s ring is the very reason vile and evil things will never leave middle earth. Evil can and never leave the world until they break the world and remake it.
Morgoth was worse he created all bad things in middle earth sauron only used what morgoth created
Can’t top the original fallen Valar
So Morgoth is like Hitler, where Sauron is Obama!
Morgoth was certainly more evil, I believe in the silmarrillion it states that Sauron repented for a short while after the war of wrath. But I will say Sauron had more balls than Morgoth as he was down to throw down on the front lines and got into a few fights throughout the years whereas Morgoth was a coward hiding in the deepest pits of angband only ever throwing down with Fingulfin and only doing so reluctantly because he was challenged openly and he wanted to maintain his “I’m a bad ass demigod” imagine in front of his servants.
WTF are you talking about??
😂😂😂 same as “lady Sauron fangirl”.
Morgoth was a “coward” because his power was very diminished, because how he spread it on the land to create the foundation of evil on the world for eons to come, Sauron never did anything nearly similar.
On his prime Morgoth was able to battle all the other Valar alone, absurd to call him “coward” 😂😂
@@MrEMBT He was a coward bro, the silmarrillion itself calls him a coward in a more complex way but it says that he above all the Valar knew fear. I never said Sauron was more powerful or more evil all I said was he was down to throw down more often then Morgoth. And Morgoth reluctantly accepted a challenge from a single elf and almost lost. Then from that day forth hid in angband. It doesn’t matter if he was a tough guy at one point in the timeline eventually he became a coward because of his own choices. That’s like a bully who was once a high school jock, buff and tougher than everyone who eventually got fat, lazy and weak becoming a coward. It doesn’t matter how you started or what you did in the past if you became a coward in the future you’re a coward. Sauron only hid because his form was broken and he needed to strategize from the shadows. But if he could he would fight and did fight and not reluctantly like morgoth. He didn’t reluctantly grace the battlefield during the last alliance he was down to fight. Morgoth never did anything of the sort and hid in angband both times it was assaulted and also ran like a little girl after he helped kill the two trees and even before that he only destroyed what the Valar created he never engaged in a frontal all out war against them while the world was being created.
@@AugmentImpulse yes, because of how he lost power in favor of becoming the source of evil.
If at some point you had all the gods of the world or other tough opponents to fight against, with just 1/10 of your former strength you will have fear too, probably.
@@MrEMBT also if I remember correctly it’s been a while since I read the silmarrillion but I don’t think Morgoth was actually fighting all the Valar at once all the time. He would just destroy what they built. I’m pretty sure it was Oromë who had to push his brothers and sisters to war saying “shall one alone contest with us forever “ then they went to Utunmo and threw down its door where Morgoth hid in its deepest depths being dragged out like a dog by the chain. And even more funny after he used all his power which you are correct on he still boasted how he was the strongest of the Valar yet hid like a little B for hundreds of years if not thousands. As I said his beginnings don’t matter if in the end he became a coward. At the final moments of the war of wrath he was a coward hiding in the deepest pits of Angband he didn’t go down fighting and at the last begged for mercy. Sauron never begged for mercy.
They are equally evil, Morgoth was just more powerful for much of the time. Only Eru could control everything, so if Sauron had been allowed to try to do so, he would've destroyed everything like Morgoth would've only more slowly. Of course that would be against the will of Eru so doomed to fail.