Great video. I’m learning a lot from your generous sharing. I am concerned however, that your figures are based on current costs. Electricity prices surely cannot stay where they are forever, and will face pressures to increase as more and more strain is placed on the grid by increasing numbers of private and especially commercial EV owners such as public buses and delivery trucks. This is in fact already happening in some countries whose electricity grids have come under strain. It would have been good of you to show the break even points of ICE/EV cost of ownership with expected increases in electricity prices.
@@hardstuff57 That's a really good point and something that does need more discussion. As far as grid capacity and power generation, there is a video by AutoExpert John Cadogan that touches on this. He is by no means 'pro-ev', in fact a lot of his videos display the downside of EVs. But one of his videos touched on the question of 'if everyone in Australia switched to EVs, can our grid handle it?'. The short answer is yes, yes it can. The amount of power and infrastructure we have at the moment is just above our current requirements, but it wouldn't take much to increase capacity to accommodate mass EV adoption. We don't have the capacity right this minute because we don't need it and power companies will only generate enough capacity to meet current demands and not a cent more because profits, but our systems are agile enough to accommodate it at current and even elevated EV adoption rates. He goes into it in more detail but that's the gist of it coming from a non 'pro-ev' guy. As for future costs, hard to determine, but I wouldn't look at electricity costs in isolation, it needs to be in correlation to petrol costs. Yes electricity might go up, but will petrol as well? Probably. As petrol is the only alternative I makes sense to base economic decisions based not just on the rise of electricity prices on it own, but it's rise in relation to petrol pricing. Because even if electricity prices double, if it's still 80% cheaper than petrol I'm still picking electricity.
It is probably a big education process just finding chargers behind shopping centres, back allies, around the side of the odd petrol station, the bottom level of car parks, random side streets, and any other place you would rather not be at night. I think the Europeans have it right with dedicated multiple EV chargers set up in great locations and noticeable, like petrol stations.
when away from home the most important charger is the one that will get you home. Where the other chargers are is unimportant. As you get out and about in an Ev you soon get to know where thoae important chargers are. In the UK I use an App called Zap Map, most onboard GPS systems have directions to the local charge points. Quite simply 'Range Anxiety' is an invented problem promulgated by the ICE industry and certain rather stupid Journalists.
I was spending $2500 per year on fuel, now zero, charge from solar. I am retired so capturing solar is easy for me, i have paid to charge once, $9.50 for a 45 min top up. if you don’t have solar as David said an overnight charge on an EV power plan is probably 50 cents. I do know how far I can go, i have kept notes for 9 months and i can go 350 to 400 km comfortably. planning a long trip use Plugshare or ABRP, a better route planner, this calculates your cars charge stops to get you to your destination. I calculated a 1600 km trip that was 4 hours longer than a petrol/ diesel time, it didn’t factor in my overnight stop where i fully charger overnight, that would knock off at least 2 hours of the 4.
My numbers are a bit off, but everyones usage is different. I do A LOT of driving so I spend about $10 a week on electricity and I budget for around $500-$600 total cost. But that is still a far far cry from the $110 a week and $3000+ a year I used to spend on fuel. Whatever your driving is, even without solar your costs will drop about 90%. With solar...100%!
Off roaders have always considered range important. But usually, we add aftermarket long range tanks. I am looking into the e jerrry world and solar options for evs. Trying to avoid hybrid, but may have no options.
An extremely efficient battery/solar array would be perfect. There will be some time in the future where you will never have to stop to charge/fill up! But portable solar panels just don't generate enough power to charge up a battery fast enough at the moment. Hoping technology advances in this segment. Perhaps something like a collapsible solar convergence array you can unfold and point at a portable solar panel, to 10x the amount of sunlight hitting the panel? I dunno haha, just thinking out loud here!
@@BeYonD-EV I already use solar to combat parasitic drain, 12v fridge and camp lighting. Solar is already good enough for this use. Will still be good to avoid drain on traction battery. It will be on my future ev . Jaecoo J6 is advertising built in solar option. Even at 5k per day charge, will still be useful outback.
@@BeYonD-EV I will see what I get, and adapt myself, or adapt it to my needs, it is what off roaders do. ECO flow type power packs, chargeable from solar, already can charge evs to 10 to 20 km, like a jerry can of electrons.
Melbourne. AGL and OVO offer 'EV Night Saver plans' if you own an EV. Both offer 8c/kW tariffs between 12am-6am. I have my BYD Seal to only charge within that time window. So when I go home I just plug in and it starts charging at 12 and stops at 6, only ever paying 8c per kW for it.
@abul9052 27c peak, 17c off peak. Normal rates. I have solar, right now I pay about $100 per month to power my house AND my car. And I drive around 2500km per month.
If you want to drive 800 miles in one day gas is still king. If you want to drive 500 miles you can use a 300 mile range EV if you can charge at night when traveling. The two 15min charge stops can be scheduled with bathroom and food breaks
Apart from this statement not being very practical (people should always have rest stops on long drives, hence time to charge), I haven't actually driven this far in one day in 40 years of driving. I'm pretty sure this covers about 99% of private drivers. So your argument for buying a combustion car is to just cover a very tiny use case.
@vasil7410 Yes out of the hundreds of people I know only 1 that drives long enough in one go that a 300 mile range car would not work for him. Every one else I know could go electric if they were ok purchasing used so they could get the price under $30,000. Can you explain what was not practical to you about the statement you quoted? Thanks.
@@ecospider5 Saying you need a gas car to drive 800 miles in one day implies you would be driving very long distances without stopping. I think this is impractical because most people would need to stop for regular rest breaks along the way. During these rest breaks, you would then have time to charge.
@vasil7410 I just did a route on google maps from Seattle to Sacramento California. It said 12hr and 13 minutes. I have done this drive with just a 30 minute break. We drove there on Friday and drove back on Sunday. My Tesla says says this drive would be 14hr 48 minutes. That extra 2 hours would actually be a problem. I know a couple people that drive like that once a year. Telling them an electric car would be the same capabilities as their gas car would be dishonest. Seattle to Gold Beach is 500 miles. 8hr 25 minutes in gas car 9hr 43 minutes in a Tesla That is a reasonable difference since a lunch break makes the gas car trip 9hr. So I can honestly tell that person an electric car is a reasonable replacement.
@@scottcochrane638 how good is it! I've had my Seal for about 4 months and done 10,000km in it. The amount of money I've spent on electricity so far is about the same as 1 tank of petrol in my previous car, which only got me about 480km. That's a 95% saving in running costs so far!
I compare my new Atto 3 vs my previous SkyActiv Mazda 2. I am feather-footed, so my Mazda gets 15 km per litre of gasoline most of the days, down to 11 km during worst traffic weeks. The Atto 3 easily costs 25% of the Mazda 2 to run my daily commute, while charging at home. This won't be achieveable in countries with exorbitant electricity price like UK today. In the US, where gas is cheap, and electricity is a bit expensive, the EV costs will be like 67% of the ICE car that does 35 mpg combined, when gas is like 92 cents per litre, and electricity is 25 cents per kWh. People who only drive over 300 km on a road trip, once in the last 10 years (yeah, my family member) - still suffer from that incomprehensible, irrational "range anxiety", despite them being very intelligent, 1%er successful career people. Don't buy EV if you live in cold climate, rural area with unreliable electricity supply, or too far away from the major cities.
I would buy a byd ev in a minute, but, i dont want an suv,or a sedan, I dont like an interior with stupid faux guitar strings and a dashboard that looks like the ligaments in a flensed whale. Till i can buy a byd wagon with a dash that doesnt make me want to vomit, ill look elsewhere. Ps ive had a low range ev for 6 years now without a problem.
Thanks David, you've nailed it again.
Great video. I’m learning a lot from your generous sharing. I am concerned however, that your figures are based on current costs. Electricity prices surely cannot stay where they are forever, and will face pressures to increase as more and more strain is placed on the grid by increasing numbers of private and especially commercial EV owners such as public buses and delivery trucks. This is in fact already happening in some countries whose electricity grids have come under strain. It would have been good of you to show the break even points of ICE/EV cost of ownership with expected increases in electricity prices.
@@hardstuff57 That's a really good point and something that does need more discussion. As far as grid capacity and power generation, there is a video by AutoExpert John Cadogan that touches on this. He is by no means 'pro-ev', in fact a lot of his videos display the downside of EVs. But one of his videos touched on the question of 'if everyone in Australia switched to EVs, can our grid handle it?'. The short answer is yes, yes it can. The amount of power and infrastructure we have at the moment is just above our current requirements, but it wouldn't take much to increase capacity to accommodate mass EV adoption. We don't have the capacity right this minute because we don't need it and power companies will only generate enough capacity to meet current demands and not a cent more because profits, but our systems are agile enough to accommodate it at current and even elevated EV adoption rates. He goes into it in more detail but that's the gist of it coming from a non 'pro-ev' guy.
As for future costs, hard to determine, but I wouldn't look at electricity costs in isolation, it needs to be in correlation to petrol costs. Yes electricity might go up, but will petrol as well? Probably. As petrol is the only alternative I makes sense to base economic decisions based not just on the rise of electricity prices on it own, but it's rise in relation to petrol pricing. Because even if electricity prices double, if it's still 80% cheaper than petrol I'm still picking electricity.
It is probably a big education process just finding chargers behind shopping centres, back allies, around the side of the odd petrol station, the bottom level of car parks, random side streets, and any other place you would rather not be at night. I think the Europeans have it right with dedicated multiple EV chargers set up in great locations and noticeable, like petrol stations.
when away from home the most important charger is the one that will get you home. Where the other chargers are is unimportant. As you get out and about in an Ev you soon get to know where thoae important chargers are. In the UK I use an App called Zap Map, most onboard GPS systems have directions to the local charge points.
Quite simply 'Range Anxiety' is an invented problem promulgated by the ICE industry and certain rather stupid Journalists.
I was spending $2500 per year on fuel, now zero, charge from solar. I am retired so capturing solar is easy for me, i have paid to charge once, $9.50 for a 45 min top up. if you don’t have solar as David said an overnight charge on an EV power plan is probably 50 cents. I do know how far I can go, i have kept notes for 9 months and i can go 350 to 400 km comfortably.
planning a long trip use Plugshare or ABRP, a better route planner, this calculates your cars charge stops to get you to your destination. I calculated a 1600 km trip that was 4 hours longer than a petrol/ diesel time, it didn’t factor in my overnight stop where i fully charger overnight, that would knock off at least 2 hours of the 4.
My numbers are a bit off, but everyones usage is different. I do A LOT of driving so I spend about $10 a week on electricity and I budget for around $500-$600 total cost.
But that is still a far far cry from the $110 a week and $3000+ a year I used to spend on fuel.
Whatever your driving is, even without solar your costs will drop about 90%. With solar...100%!
Off roaders have always considered range important. But usually, we add aftermarket long range tanks. I am looking into the e jerrry world and solar options for evs. Trying to avoid hybrid, but may have no options.
An extremely efficient battery/solar array would be perfect. There will be some time in the future where you will never have to stop to charge/fill up! But portable solar panels just don't generate enough power to charge up a battery fast enough at the moment. Hoping technology advances in this segment.
Perhaps something like a collapsible solar convergence array you can unfold and point at a portable solar panel, to 10x the amount of sunlight hitting the panel? I dunno haha, just thinking out loud here!
@@BeYonD-EV I already use solar to combat parasitic drain, 12v fridge and camp lighting. Solar is already good enough for this use. Will still be good to avoid drain on traction battery. It will be on my future ev . Jaecoo J6 is advertising built in solar option. Even at 5k per day charge, will still be useful outback.
@@BeYonD-EV I will see what I get, and adapt myself, or adapt it to my needs, it is what off roaders do. ECO flow type power packs, chargeable from solar, already can charge evs to 10 to 20 km, like a jerry can of electrons.
I’m onboard with EV but I am sorry - in which part of Australia are you getting an 8c electricity tariff????
Melbourne. AGL and OVO offer 'EV Night Saver plans' if you own an EV. Both offer 8c/kW tariffs between 12am-6am. I have my BYD Seal to only charge within that time window. So when I go home I just plug in and it starts charging at 12 and stops at 6, only ever paying 8c per kW for it.
@@BeYonD-EV how about the tariff outside those hours?
@abul9052 27c peak, 17c off peak. Normal rates. I have solar, right now I pay about $100 per month to power my house AND my car. And I drive around 2500km per month.
If you want to drive 800 miles in one day gas is still king. If you want to drive 500 miles you can use a 300 mile range EV if you can charge at night when traveling. The two 15min charge stops can be scheduled with bathroom and food breaks
Apart from this statement not being very practical (people should always have rest stops on long drives, hence time to charge), I haven't actually driven this far in one day in 40 years of driving. I'm pretty sure this covers about 99% of private drivers. So your argument for buying a combustion car is to just cover a very tiny use case.
@vasil7410
Yes out of the hundreds of people I know only 1 that drives long enough in one go that a 300 mile range car would not work for him. Every one else I know could go electric if they were ok purchasing used so they could get the price under $30,000.
Can you explain what was not practical to you about the statement you quoted? Thanks.
@@ecospider5 Saying you need a gas car to drive 800 miles in one day implies you would be driving very long distances without stopping. I think this is impractical because most people would need to stop for regular rest breaks along the way. During these rest breaks, you would then have time to charge.
@vasil7410
I just did a route on google maps from Seattle to Sacramento California. It said 12hr and 13 minutes. I have done this drive with just a 30 minute break. We drove there on Friday and drove back on Sunday.
My Tesla says says this drive would be 14hr 48 minutes. That extra 2 hours would actually be a problem.
I know a couple people that drive like that once a year. Telling them an electric car would be the same capabilities as their gas car would be dishonest.
Seattle to Gold Beach is 500 miles.
8hr 25 minutes in gas car
9hr 43 minutes in a Tesla
That is a reasonable difference since a lunch break makes the gas car trip 9hr.
So I can honestly tell that person an electric car is a reasonable replacement.
The money I save not buying fuel more then pays for my Eletric car lease. Easy.
30 thousand kms in 9 months
@@scottcochrane638 how good is it! I've had my Seal for about 4 months and done 10,000km in it. The amount of money I've spent on electricity so far is about the same as 1 tank of petrol in my previous car, which only got me about 480km. That's a 95% saving in running costs so far!
Why shouldn't you care for shorter ranges but longer "refuel" times?
It is just a good argument for many drivers, no one is afraid!
I compare my new Atto 3 vs my previous SkyActiv Mazda 2. I am feather-footed, so my Mazda gets 15 km per litre of gasoline most of the days, down to 11 km during worst traffic weeks. The Atto 3 easily costs 25% of the Mazda 2 to run my daily commute, while charging at home. This won't be achieveable in countries with exorbitant electricity price like UK today. In the US, where gas is cheap, and electricity is a bit expensive, the EV costs will be like 67% of the ICE car that does 35 mpg combined, when gas is like 92 cents per litre, and electricity is 25 cents per kWh.
People who only drive over 300 km on a road trip, once in the last 10 years (yeah, my family member) - still suffer from that incomprehensible, irrational "range anxiety", despite them being very intelligent, 1%er successful career people. Don't buy EV if you live in cold climate, rural area with unreliable electricity supply, or too far away from the major cities.
I would buy a byd ev in a minute, but, i dont want an suv,or a sedan, I dont like an interior with stupid faux guitar strings and a dashboard that looks like the ligaments in a flensed whale. Till i can buy a byd wagon with a dash that doesnt make me want to vomit, ill look elsewhere. Ps ive had a low range ev for 6 years now without a problem.
Alot of EV SUVs are very coupe like and almost look like wagons. The Sealion 7 coming out is hard to tell between a wagon or SUV