It would have been nice to have the Avians around and on screen. As far as I know, there was never an sentient airborne species portrayed in classic trek and it would have been interesting to explore such a species culture and technology.
In the STO novel it is hinted that the Avians were discovered in the Delta Quadrant by one of the Vesta Class expeditions but that the other Xindi weren't too pleased to see them.
9:26 The was a type of bird in the United States called the Passenger Pigeon. They used to be quite numerous; stories even telling of a flock so big it it blocked out the sun for more than a day. Due to hunting and habitat loss-they were eventually driven to extinction. I remember hearing a radio talk on the subject and the scientist thought that certain animals might need to have a large stable population to effectively survive. Hence why small flocks of the birds didn't last in small isolated and protected areas. Maybe the avian Xindi were simialar.
Yeah. For all we know, they cpuld have fled to some remote planet or space station to avoid their extinction. Just because thwy are said to be extinct, doesnt mean that they. Maybe they're just lost
Perhaps, rather than slavers, they saw the guardians as a problem that the other species were blindly following to a potential doom...abducting a lot of them to "save" them in an exodus of their own from the entire region wether misguided or correct could be it. Of course, considering that the guardians were part of the temporal cold war, perhaps they made a deal with another group and left that way to re-emerge at some future date.
I wonder if the Avians were an homage to either the Skorr or the Aurelian races of Star Trek the Animated series and wanted to keep that possibility open for future Star Trek episodes?
It's entirely possible that the insectoids clothing served more of a diplomatic and otherwise social function as they would be taken far more seriously by the other races within the xindi coalition. I have no notes as a pertains to the aquatics as I believed they were handled very well. I do however believe that the creative staff behind Enterprise really cheated themselves by having the avian xindi be extinct. In my head Canon, the avian xindi secretly left does Indus system shortly before the destruction of the Homeworld after destroying any record of their plans and nearly every record of their existence as a part of a species wide faked death. I like to think that they live in an isolationist cluster of colonies in a remote system surrounded by spatial anomalies to avoid detection. Star Trek is Rife with isolationist races so it would be pretty par for the course considering everything that they had experienced.
This was a fascinating video. I wish we had more information on the sphere builders. I would also like to explore the war they had with the Federation.
A few things about the Avians. I've played with a few parrots and other types of birds as well as dealt with people that have had no arms... Mostly amputees... And between the two, I've been amazed at every turn as to the creativity and general dexterity of both using their feet. I just assumed the Avians of the Xindi did the same. As for the extinction of them, would it be too far a stretch to think that they just returned home to lay eggs and the eggs, along with the nesting area, disappeared with the destruction of Xinus? An example of this in universe, would be the Vulcans who were supposed to return home to mate. As the biological imperitive wasn't as strong in Vulcans as the Avians the Vulcans could find another homeworld, if Vulcan were to disappear like Xindus. Just a thought.
I noticed a bird like humanoid in the original series pilot "the cage" could it be a xindi avian? I have a picture. It looks like a hairy crow but human sized and is in the cage next to the gorrilla.
With TAS slowly becoming more canonized I like the idea that the Aurelians amd Skorr are somehow related to the extinct Avians. Offshoots of the species like the Romulans Remans and Mintakans are offshoots of vulcans🤔
Saqwana yeah, both did actually, they were the same model lol. But given how often races change in trek and the minute info on the Avians I dont think its a deal breaker. Heres an idea... DSC despite some fan controversy is a success and another show is apparently in pre production now. If the franchise continues to grow why not another animated series? Modern standards with perhaps talent from great animated shows doing the work. It could be a faithful TOS redux or a way to tackle different story elements and dive deeper into established lore.
Saqwana. You can hate all you want, I enjoyed the show and look forward to more. I wonder which of us will have the better quality of life🤔 speaking of... I wonder what happened to all the haters that cried over the TMP Klingons? Or the ones who hated TNG so passionately?
i don't hate STD i just don't think it was very good it start the season badly and ended it badly, so i did all i could i gave it's shot and i wasn't impressed. i am more or less ambivalent to std.
Human beings without arms can adapt their feet to work like crude hands notice the avian is on one foot with the right one up also suggesting this. Would be interesting to see a foot opposable thumb on an alien.
The Avion species could have had survivors that are lost to the rest but still out there. Plus the drawing could be inaccurate. Maybe they had hands/ claws at the bend on there wings
Avian ships: voice control? …. Omg magic: tonal magic like skyrim dwemer 😱 its all connected…. Or i should go to bed. 😅 💕 thanks for so many cool vids!
Selected extinction or orchestrated genocide seems the more plausible theory especially if their mistrust of the motives of the Guardians was such that other powerful members of the council such as the Aquatics were also persuaded to feel likewise...
Wonderful theory and extrapolation. Avians caught my interest when I watched the first time, and I too found it odd that they were wiped out by a single planetary destruction even after clearly having established themselves on other worlds.
Wait. How did the Aquatics become a technological race (which requires the discovery and use of fire as a preliminary tech) when they live their entire lives underwater?
So the Avians said, "Give me freedom or give me death." And they received death. How sad... It would be nice if some future chapter of Star Trek brought them back. Perhaps they survived in some distant part of the quadrant, even without the Guardians' help, but would not be seen again for centuries after the events of Enterprise.
all the buttons for operating a starship for the Avians were on the ground/floor. basically, an Avian keyboard is just a big Dance Dance Revolution pad
my best guess is the avians were incrediply individualistic and independant even more so then the reptillians and do to having colony worlds they didnt fear the end of xindus all these togther meaning they would defy the sphere builders and perhaps give other xindi a way to escape without there aid thus the builders wiped them out
The avians when working for dexterity they would rest on their wing struts and use their feet, like people unfortunately that have lost both arms at a young age can learn to do a lot of things with their feet
The avion race could well have just put a lot of distance between them and the whole situation. It's possible some of them are still alive but staying out of the limelight. Judging by the way the Xindi in general behave I would too.
The avians being abductors sounds solid. And the fact that the insects and reptiles may have hated them for this. This could have also gave them a sense of superiority and caused them to be hated by the other races. Or maby they were able to see through the sphere builders plans and removed. This sound very possible given that they were 4000 years more advanced they obviously were not stupid.
I think the Avians still exist, maybe a group that has survived without notice. Atleast I would like to see that written into canon, a resurgence some time.
I'm surprised the xindi didnt make people wear underwater suits for the meetings, and the insectoids only need somthing to cover their body bot head. I'd say the guardians wiped then out and the avians ,and they probably would have been the ruling spieces on Xindus, probably coming close to the extinction in the future after the other 5 rebelled in a unaltered timeline .
The Borg would probably deem the Aquatics unworthy of assimilation, unless they held valuable knowledge or could be used for oceanic work; the Borg are only interested in species that move them toward perfection, and needing to be in water would be a serious shortcoming.
Ok I am going through all of the next generation because I remember Riker stating to a new cadet they have an xindi on board. And the cadet asks what species and he says avian. And then comments on how weird it was comming from a planet of 6 races. I am in the second season and in the first season Xindi's planet has been mentioned 3 time. If I am remembering the conversation the cadet mentions her ancestor was one of the first federation captains and last name is archer. I think the episode is in the sixth season. And believe that the xindi home world was destroyed by the reptiles and insecticides by the manipulation of the sphere builders. When they were destroyed the time line was reset.
One more point, only birds have reasonably well developed legs, the other two flying animals with backbones dont. The Avians also appear to have well developed legs and this would mean they need bigger wings. Pterasaurs took off using their wings, birds use their legs and it's why pterasaurs could get bigger than birds
As much as I disliked Enterprise and its dumb temporal war, I would love to see the various Xindi species in later Trek like Picard or Lower Decks. If I was writing it, I'd have the different species of the Xindi move to their own colonies mostly. This would allow the species - frequently at odds with one another - to have their own individual worlds, like a bunch of quarrelsome siblings moving out of their parents' house and getting their own apartments. I could easily see the aquatics taking over a planet that's all or mostly ocean, that most other species have no interest in. Reptilians might be interested in a desert planet or moon. And arboreals would of course look for planets with a lot of forests.
For the avians, it appears to me that their feet seem be prehensile. This may be how they used tools. Guardians killing them is the only way I can see that the colonies were last.
I know we won't get this, but I'd love to see a Xindi show taking place on Xindus. Perhaps at the end, the Avians of their colonys could be told over transmission by the Avians on Xindus of the nearing destruction of their wold. We could see the Avians watch the other species leave the Avians behind. They try to get to their ships, but the can't take off fast enough. The colonial Avians are in horror as they watch. The flee, never revealing their existence to the other Xindi, and most other species out of fear of being hunted by the Reptilians, and Insectoids, and discust of the arrogance of their will to do anything to win a war that no one knows the cause of.
Ok and how exactly are they all the same species? They're about as related to each other as humans and every other creature on earth that evolved form the first single celled organism!
3:15 do I see eyes below their eyes?????? and secend q build how aquatics build their spaceships ?? not in space docks but probably in large pools..How to put a large pool in a vacuum on orbit....And what they build with these little hands, without the help of other species that work worse in the water...even if they build spaceships underwater on the surface of the planet, so heavy ships would have a problem leaving the planet witch gravitational attractions..And water in space ship (bridge and cabines) if they are destroyed, they have no chance to survive (breathing air have more chance).I must say that it is strange that this race has go into space ... this race could take care of everything on a planet (on similar world like earth) let the rest of the races stay for the cosmos( sorry I'm using google translator because it's not my language I'm using)Greetings to all fans of the star trek qapla
“The influence in their culture is wielded by the powerful.” No shit! If “wields influence” isn’t the basic requirement of being a powerful person, I don’t know what is.
Just because your ancestors was giant flying birds don't mean you're a giant flying bird just saying the avian may just be a historical name not based on their actual appearance they may have hollow bones and stuff like that hollow bones like carbon fiber with huge muscles a very strong and light fast creature
And what about the nonsense of all Xindi species sharing an absurdly high fraction of their DNA? All this concept of 6 sentient species derived from a recent common ancestor is more than ridiculous.
It would have been nice to have the Avians around and on screen. As far as I know, there was never an sentient airborne species portrayed in classic trek and it would have been interesting to explore such a species culture and technology.
The kinshaya exist however they are beta-canon
There was at least one shown in ST:TAS.
They could have found a lost Avian colony that came back for revenge at a perceived betrayal by the other Xindi
@@henrynorcrossii3363 two, actually. the Skorr and Aurelian. also a humanoid bird had a brief appearance in a TOS' pilot, The Cage.
@@circuitsandcigars1278 I would like that story. Whenever Trek goes back to what it used to be pre 2009.
The amount of enthusiasm when you drop that graph is beautiful. You should have put the overlay of the Nickelback look at this graph meme.
In the STO novel it is hinted that the Avians were discovered in the Delta Quadrant by one of the Vesta Class expeditions but that the other Xindi weren't too pleased to see them.
9:26 The was a type of bird in the United States called the Passenger Pigeon. They used to be quite numerous; stories even telling of a flock so big it it blocked out the sun for more than a day. Due to hunting and habitat loss-they were eventually driven to extinction. I remember hearing a radio talk on the subject and the scientist thought that certain animals might need to have a large stable population to effectively survive. Hence why small flocks of the birds didn't last in small isolated and protected areas. Maybe the avian Xindi were simialar.
wasn't most of the quote from The Man Hunt?
It'd be great to see the Avians make an appearance in future episodes. An isolated community of them somewhere.
Is it possible that the avian xindi fled far away after that great war out of fear.
Like the dominion.
Perhaps they became an isolationist faction.
Caleb Times I like that idea
Yeah. For all we know, they cpuld have fled to some remote planet or space station to avoid their extinction. Just because thwy are said to be extinct, doesnt mean that they. Maybe they're just lost
it's also easier to remain hidden if general consensus is that you're dead
Perhaps, rather than slavers, they saw the guardians as a problem that the other species were blindly following to a potential doom...abducting a lot of them to "save" them in an exodus of their own from the entire region wether misguided or correct could be it.
Of course, considering that the guardians were part of the temporal cold war, perhaps they made a deal with another group and left that way to re-emerge at some future date.
I wonder if the Avians were an homage to either the Skorr or the Aurelian races of Star Trek the Animated series and wanted to keep that possibility open for future Star Trek episodes?
The Wraith from Stargate: Atlantis.
Peacekeepers from Farscape please.
It's entirely possible that the insectoids clothing served more of a diplomatic and otherwise social function as they would be taken far more seriously by the other races within the xindi coalition. I have no notes as a pertains to the aquatics as I believed they were handled very well. I do however believe that the creative staff behind Enterprise really cheated themselves by having the avian xindi be extinct. In my head Canon, the avian xindi secretly left does Indus system shortly before the destruction of the Homeworld after destroying any record of their plans and nearly every record of their existence as a part of a species wide faked death. I like to think that they live in an isolationist cluster of colonies in a remote system surrounded by spatial anomalies to avoid detection. Star Trek is Rife with isolationist races so it would be pretty par for the course considering everything that they had experienced.
or how about they did have hands but they could fold them to aid aerodynamics? They fled and faked their demise? so many possibilities for the Avians
This was a fascinating video. I wish we had more information on the sphere builders. I would also like to explore the war they had with the Federation.
A few things about the Avians. I've played with a few parrots and other types of birds as well as dealt with people that have had no arms... Mostly amputees... And between the two, I've been amazed at every turn as to the creativity and general dexterity of both using their feet. I just assumed the Avians of the Xindi did the same. As for the extinction of them, would it be too far a stretch to think that they just returned home to lay eggs and the eggs, along with the nesting area, disappeared with the destruction of Xinus? An example of this in universe, would be the Vulcans who were supposed to return home to mate. As the biological imperitive wasn't as strong in Vulcans as the Avians the Vulcans could find another homeworld, if Vulcan were to disappear like Xindus. Just a thought.
Some Avianians may have settled another planet that the others don't know about!
2:00
Kojima would be proud!
I noticed a bird like humanoid in the original series pilot "the cage" could it be a xindi avian? I have a picture. It looks like a hairy crow but human sized and is in the cage next to the gorrilla.
With TAS slowly becoming more canonized I like the idea that the Aurelians amd Skorr are somehow related to the extinct Avians. Offshoots of the species like the Romulans Remans and Mintakans are offshoots of vulcans🤔
that could work but didn't skorr have arms...
Saqwana yeah, both did actually, they were the same model lol. But given how often races change in trek and the minute info on the Avians I dont think its a deal breaker.
Heres an idea... DSC despite some fan controversy is a success and another show is apparently in pre production now. If the franchise continues to grow why not another animated series? Modern standards with perhaps talent from great animated shows doing the work. It could be a faithful TOS redux or a way to tackle different story elements and dive deeper into established lore.
yeah STD was a success so were the jj Abrams movies doesn't mean it was good or should ever be followed up on.
Saqwana. You can hate all you want, I enjoyed the show and look forward to more. I wonder which of us will have the better quality of life🤔 speaking of... I wonder what happened to all the haters that cried over the TMP Klingons? Or the ones who hated TNG so passionately?
i don't hate STD i just don't think it was very good it start the season badly and ended it badly, so i did all i could i gave it's shot and i wasn't impressed. i am more or less ambivalent to std.
This was an excellent video!
Human beings without arms can adapt their feet to work like crude hands notice the avian is on one foot with the right one up also suggesting this. Would be interesting to see a foot opposable thumb on an alien.
The Avion species could have had survivors that are lost to the rest but still out there. Plus the drawing could be inaccurate. Maybe they had hands/ claws at the bend on there wings
Zentradi from SDF Macross (not Robotech).
I'd like to see a Cultural Index for the Bajorans, the Trills, the Betazoids and the Bolians. Oh, and the Breen.
The latter if which one should never turn one's back on ;) .
Avian ships: voice control?
…. Omg magic: tonal magic like skyrim dwemer 😱 its all connected…. Or i should go to bed. 😅
💕 thanks for so many cool vids!
7:15 Quick correction. Pterosaurs are not dinosaurs. They're more closely related to crocodilians.
Flying crocodiles?? Now there's a terrifying thought!
Glad someone mentioned it lol
While it's true that they are not dinosaurs, all three are related as they are all Archosaurs.
As a dinosaur nerd, I did not know this, but that is cool af (I'm more of an ornithician fan)
Selected extinction or orchestrated genocide seems the more plausible theory especially if their mistrust of the motives of the Guardians was such that other powerful members of the council such as the Aquatics were also persuaded to feel likewise...
Wonderful theory and extrapolation. Avians caught my interest when I watched the first time, and I too found it odd that they were wiped out by a single planetary destruction even after clearly having established themselves on other worlds.
Wait. How did the Aquatics become a technological race (which requires the discovery and use of fire as a preliminary tech) when they live their entire lives underwater?
SlightlyDecent underwater volcanic vents
exo thermal vents perhaps?
Uplifting
So the Avians said, "Give me freedom or give me death." And they received death. How sad...
It would be nice if some future chapter of Star Trek brought them back. Perhaps they survived in some distant part of the quadrant, even without the Guardians' help, but would not be seen again for centuries after the events of Enterprise.
A great theme for an episode would be finding an Xindi avian colony on some far flung world !
Yas finally!!
Yes!
all the buttons for operating a starship for the Avians were on the ground/floor. basically, an Avian keyboard is just a big Dance Dance Revolution pad
Insectoid Xindi are cuties Xindi.
so are the aquatics
my best guess is the avians were incrediply individualistic and independant even more so then the reptillians and do to having colony worlds they didnt fear the end of xindus all these togther meaning they would defy the sphere builders and perhaps give other xindi a way to escape without there aid thus the builders wiped them out
Personally, I think the writers were being ironic regarding the avians.
Volus and Elcor from Mass Effect
The Aquatics slow society kinda reminds me of the Elcor from Mass effect.
I think the ten c from discovery can be the Avian Xindi from enterprise.
All these frigging Xindi look the same to me !
So would the dolphin navigators on the Enterprise D be able to talk to the Zindy whales ?
When will you do a video about the Xindi - Primates
The Hutt species from Star Wars
The avians when working for dexterity they would rest on their wing struts and use their feet, like people unfortunately that have lost both arms at a young age can learn to do a lot of things with their feet
The avion race could well have just put a lot of distance between them and the whole situation. It's possible some of them are still alive but staying out of the limelight. Judging by the way the Xindi in general behave I would too.
The avians being abductors sounds solid. And the fact that the insects and reptiles may have hated them for this. This could have also gave them a sense of superiority and caused them to be hated by the other races. Or maby they were able to see through the sphere builders plans and removed. This sound very possible given that they were 4000 years more advanced they obviously were not stupid.
I wonder why they used the skull of a giraffe for a speices that is supposed to be avian?
Pretty diverse coalition
what if the avion xindi looked like the indoraptor from the fifth jurassic park film but with feathers and more smarter and a bit more scary looking.
So they breathe through their sides
#notjustbeingslutty
could the space probe from The Voyage Home be from the aquatic xindi?
The Avian skull is literally just a giraffe skull lol
I think the Avians still exist, maybe a group that has survived without notice. Atleast I would like to see that written into canon, a resurgence some time.
I'm surprised the xindi didnt make people wear underwater suits for the meetings, and the insectoids only need somthing to cover their body bot head.
I'd say the guardians wiped then out and the avians ,and they probably would have been the ruling spieces on Xindus, probably coming close to the extinction in the future after the other 5 rebelled in a unaltered timeline .
What would happen if the Borg assimilated the Aquatics? Would there really be a cube (or some other shape) filled with water?
The Borg would probably deem the Aquatics unworthy of assimilation, unless they held valuable knowledge or could be used for oceanic work; the Borg are only interested in species that move them toward perfection, and needing to be in water would be a serious shortcoming.
Avians are really extant & need to make a startling reappearance in Discovery.
Ok I am going through all of the next generation because I remember Riker stating to a new cadet they have an xindi on board. And the cadet asks what species and he says avian. And then comments on how weird it was comming from a planet of 6 races. I am in the second season and in the first season Xindi's planet has been mentioned 3 time. If I am remembering the conversation the cadet mentions her ancestor was one of the first federation captains and last name is archer. I think the episode is in the sixth season. And believe that the xindi home world was destroyed by the reptiles and insecticides by the manipulation of the sphere builders. When they were destroyed the time line was reset.
One more point, only birds have reasonably well developed legs, the other two flying animals with backbones dont. The Avians also appear to have well developed legs and this would mean they need bigger wings. Pterasaurs took off using their wings, birds use their legs and it's why pterasaurs could get bigger than birds
So basically Xindi are a committee of different space faring races.
no
As much as I disliked Enterprise and its dumb temporal war, I would love to see the various Xindi species in later Trek like Picard or Lower Decks. If I was writing it, I'd have the different species of the Xindi move to their own colonies mostly. This would allow the species - frequently at odds with one another - to have their own individual worlds, like a bunch of quarrelsome siblings moving out of their parents' house and getting their own apartments.
I could easily see the aquatics taking over a planet that's all or mostly ocean, that most other species have no interest in. Reptilians might be interested in a desert planet or moon. And arboreals would of course look for planets with a lot of forests.
While the Avians do not have usable arms, they might of been still able to manipulate things with their feet.
For the avians, it appears to me that their feet seem be prehensile. This may be how they used tools. Guardians killing them is the only way I can see that the colonies were last.
At 10:00, you misspoke, and mixed up the Avians with the Guardians. Otherwise, excellent work.
Space aquariums?
The Avians moved on to the forgotten realms.
I know we won't get this, but I'd love to see a Xindi show taking place on Xindus. Perhaps at the end, the Avians of their colonys could be told over transmission by the Avians on Xindus of the nearing destruction of their wold. We could see the Avians watch the other species leave the Avians behind. They try to get to their ships, but the can't take off fast enough. The colonial Avians are in horror as they watch. The flee, never revealing their existence to the other Xindi, and most other species out of fear of being hunted by the Reptilians, and Insectoids, and discust of the arrogance of their will to do anything to win a war that no one knows the cause of.
pterosaurs are not dinosaurs but a closely related group of reptiles
Ok and how exactly are they all the same species? They're about as related to each other as humans and every other creature on earth that evolved form the first single celled organism!
3:15 do I see eyes below their eyes?????? and secend q build how aquatics build their spaceships ?? not in space docks but probably in large pools..How to put a large pool in a vacuum on orbit....And what they build with these little hands, without the help of other species that work worse in the water...even if they build spaceships underwater on the surface of the planet, so heavy ships would have a problem leaving the planet witch gravitational attractions..And water in space ship (bridge and cabines) if they are destroyed, they have no chance to survive (breathing air have more chance).I must say that it is strange that this race has go into space ... this race could take care of everything on a planet (on similar world like earth) let the rest of the races stay for the cosmos( sorry I'm using google translator because it's not my language I'm using)Greetings to all fans of the star trek qapla
“The influence in their culture is wielded by the powerful.”
No shit! If “wields influence” isn’t the basic requirement of being a powerful person, I don’t know what is.
The Avians could have used their feet instead of hands, considering their feet look to have a thumb like talon on each foot
madaloriens from star wars.
Darien Evans, Well isn't that more cultural idea than an actual species.
same could be said for the sith.
and the jedi. from my perspective, he is also reviews the culture as well as the look of the race. so Mandalorians could be done
Its almost like they all came from Earth tens of millions of years ago.
Do the Xindi primates
Just because your ancestors was giant flying birds don't mean you're a giant flying bird just saying the avian may just be a historical name not based on their actual appearance they may have hollow bones and stuff like that hollow bones like carbon fiber with huge muscles a very strong and light fast creature
That's a giraffe skull 🤔
Over all I fell bad for the XINDI as they had been used as pawns honestly...
dino's weren't lizards xD
Handful of baby powder and there done clog up those air holes on there sides watch em suffocate think they would go about protecting em better
Maybe they use their feet to use tools like some birds can.
I can see that happening real recognize real and they got axed.
The Avians probably just used their feet.
Humans from United Earth
Poor Giraffe Birds
tis neurotoxin is work only if some stiupit creatures( like crew on enterprice) go ther without space suit:-)))) or some personal shields
The insectoids have got some biggol eyes 👀 .
And what about the nonsense of all Xindi species sharing an absurdly high fraction of their DNA? All this concept of 6 sentient species derived from a recent common ancestor is more than ridiculous.
Imo an aquatic technological race would never happen. Metallurgy and chemistry would impossible. Sentient sure, spacefaring no.
I wish to avians survived
"Nowhere near as tall as some of the winged dinosaurs from Earth's history...." What, like ostriches? PTEROSAURS WERE NOT DINOSAURS.