F-22 Raptor Vs 2x F-35 Lightning | Air Superiority | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.
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Please keep in mind these are mods and the actual aircraft remain classified. These mods are simply based on publicly available information and this is the best simulation we can currently run. Also big thank you to Peregrine for helping with this video. Thanks again for watching and I'll see you in the next one. Much Love.
Hello
F-15 vs F-35 please?
Please do this but with humans in the f35’s!that would be sick!
F5 v t38?
@@jameshun5431 haha, t38 is an f5 that had its balls chopped off for training 🤣
F-35 #2: We’ll take him together
F-35 #1: No I’m taking him NOW!!!
F-35 #2: Anakin NO!!!
*dies*
F-22: “As you see, my Fighter powers are far beyond yours. Now, back down."
My powers have doubled since the last we met 22
😂
That first round with the aggressive F35 actually closely resembles what I have been suggesting about 5th gen fighters vs each other. With sufficient stealth under the right conditions two 5th gen fighters could end up in a dogfight because they aren’t able to shoot each other down at range. Dogfighting isn’t necessarily dead, but it may look very different.
Using publicly available data, F-35s and F-22s need to be about ten times closer for detection and locking compared to legacy jets. That puts their weapons grade locks on each other at 15-30km out. Plenty of time for AMRAAMs before it gets into a dogfight.
At the speed of sound you’ll go 20 km in a minute.
@@mittens4385 not really. 1 or 2 misses with the AMRAAM and you're into the merge.
You guys a forgetting if you are flying mach 1 and they are flying mach 1 then the closing speed is mach 2
AIM-9X don’t tend to miss and are effective from 5-10km out.
2 or more F-35s would present a bigger challenge than portrayed here. What DCS does not consider is the synergy between F-35s. If one has the F-22 locked, the other can use that information to guide his Fox 3 even if that F-35 is not able to get a lock. That info can also be passed on the Patriot site.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. He's not really fighting two F-35's as they don't even seem to be aware of each other, much less working as a team.
Yeah, I'd agree. One of the areas that is hard to simulate on a modern fighter is the avionics performance. Things like radar processing, tactical data link, and all the other electronics that are highly classified and a guess at best. On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the F-35 held some advantages in these areas as it is over a decade newer than the F-22. Like, the F-22 entered service 2 years before the first iPhone was released, and the F-35 was around the time of the iPhone 6/7. There had to be some jumps in military tech in that time.
It also doesn't take into account the ability for the f-35 to lock on to targets regardless of orientation to itself. It can lock on and fire at targets parallel or even behind it.
It's the big selling point for the F-35, so for sure!
@@eddiec2go lots of things about the F-35 are classified anyway.
Adding stealth to BVR just makes it so much more interesting. Almost like back in the days of WWII when planes didn’t have radar tech. It was just skill and luck.
Apart from the radar absorbant materials and coatings which are, of course, classified, there is a second layer of stealth on the 22 and the 35. They both use "planform alignment", which means all major structures on the airframe are at the same angles from centre line or the perpendicular station lines, rather than having lots of angles, one or more of which can reflect back to the detector. There is also a third layer of thermal cross section reduction, that buries the engines deep in the airframe. Just can't hide that burner plume!
The planeform is the primary mechanism of stealth, RAM is secondary.
@@mittens4385 I've heard that the RAM absorbs about 70-80% of the radar emissions, so I feel like that would be primary
Public estimates have the RCS of F-15s at 20 square metres or so. The F-35 is supposed to be less than 0.01 square metres. 80-90% lower does not a stealth jet make.
Updated with exact recipe plus guess for gray coating.
Are you talking about the composites that are on F-35 over broad areas (you can see in pictures the blue-green stuff) and probably F-22 as well. Plus the basics if coatings is not secret, most public sources use a Ferrite, an Iron Oxide made into spheres mixed in with another material like an epoxy or gel. Well it isn't secret that the real Iron Ball is Iron Oxide/Titanium Dioxide and Garnet". I found that it is out in papers from...china. Interestingly enough certain content creators seem to think ceramic stealth coatings are something that we have to wait for. Actually the coating for the Nighthawk is basically itself a ceramic because certain steps are sintering and some of the new stuff that looks like graphine RGO and perhaps Titanium Dioxide minus the Iron, which is replaced instead with something like Strontium hexaferrite which I believe helps with IR if memory serves.- It will likely have steps involving the kilns too as other methods to produce similar materials are what adversaries are using .It's the exact recipe plus certain engineering steps we don't talk about , as far as I don't know what China has ( not doing something right) and Russia is still trying to have. There is a lot of talk about the Russian guy that figured out a way to figure the RCS of an aircraft being the father of stealth and the work the Germans did but again no product no cookie.
Remember, stealth is not always invisible on radar, it decrease the detection range of the aircraft, it will always gonna be detect mostly on the close range whether it is F22, F35, SU57 or even J20. It will always be detect on a close range by using strong radar/Low frequency radar aka L band radar which make it easier to detect the stealth plane, but mostly it will detect at the close range, While IRST shows the heat signature of the aircraft which will give slightly superior detect range compared to radar or maybe it's the same, which will detect at the medium to close range of the aircraft.
US: "If a bandit manages to merge with the F22, the Raptor pilot really screwed up."
Everyone else: "Never merge with a F22."
The F-35s not syncing their data was definitely a massive nerf on their part, a lone F-35 could be dangerous but a group would be almost impossible to take down solo.
Hey Growling, did you know that NATO is trying to have the F35 equipped with Meteor missiles by 2027 and the F35I used by Israel has Pythons? Is that possible to do in DCS through mods?
Why would they want meteor missiles (which are fine missiles) when we have the AIM 260s on deck and possibly Peregrine missiles
@@USViper maybe a stopgap or a secondary backup
In addition, Boeing is developing the LRAAM Mach 8-10 kinetic kill missile.
It’s specifically the RAF which wants meteor integration. It would allow for unified missile stocks with Typhoons without having to resort to AMRAAMs (the meteor is better in most situations).
An F-35 with Python-5 and meteor missiles that’s terrifying
I love the F-22 but Fat Amy is truly misunderstood and unfairly hated. Sadly we won't get to see how awesome she is until a big real life conflict breaks out.
@@kermittoad Unfortunately Pierre Sprey won't be around to see it.
Speaking of F-35... i seriously belive everyone has underestimated that things Dogfighting capabilities, me included. I've seen airshows of that thing do flat-spins, loops so fast with such a small radius it barely looks real.
Same. The military is definitely downplaying its capabilities when discussing it publicly. Most people don't know the B variant can move like a helo... It's nuts. That's the one that doesn't have the gun btw GS, they had to make room for all the other awesome sauce.
I love the fact that pilots really like the combat capability of the F-35 yet still have an irreverent streak to call it Fat Amy.
most prefer to call it a panther, the uneducated fighter mafia simps call it fat amy because they're in denial
@@saltyfloridaman7163 it's the s3x panther 60% of the time it works everytime
@@saltyfloridaman7163 I mean yeah but it defo look kinda like a fat f22
50 AoA my ass . More like 10
It's a battle penguin
Man so many people talking out their butt here about F-35.
Fact: In the most recent red flag exercise F-35 were placed on the enemy side.
Fact: The most recent red flag so the F-22 suffer the most losses ever.
Fact: F-35 shot down more F-22 than any other aircraft.
In a follow up interview with the F-22 pilot said the experience was "humbling" and they a learning experience.
All the "experts" crack me up thinking these mods in anyway reflect the actual things.
For the most clasified ones is hard to replicate the real thing 1:1 but for olders gens absolutely reflects the real one
Honestly at this point all the opinions I have heard coming from people who have actually either flown or interacted with the F-35 have been overwhelmingly positive. Except for maybe those initial reports in the test phase where they didn't even have the proper software installed.
Can't handle the fact the F-22 destroyed the F-35?
Great videos! I know the US ultimately chose the YF-22 (now the F-22 Raptor) over the YF-23, but I often wonder what would an F-22 vs. YF-23 look like, and throw in the Felon in for good measure! I don't know enough about DCS to know if you can have the YF-23, but if you can, then... a video would be awesome! Thanks to you and your team for these great videos!
YF-23 would very probably have the upper hand.
@@youssefbenslama3167 no probably to it. The black widow was TOO far ahead of it's time.
That first F-35 had you and messed it up.
I’d love to see a f22 and f35 working in unison on some sort of seek and destroy mission with lots of air defenses
Came here to say the exact same thing.
The 2 planes would actually work VERY well in unison in certain situations. It would be very cool to see the two together. Too many comparisons.
That's what they were originally designed to do. Mutually support one another.
I've actually really grown to like the F-35. I see them flying quite often here at NAS Fallon. It is probably my favorite aircraft currently in service. Great video is always!
Fellow F35 enjoyer
it really is an outstandung aircraft
@@cockatoo010 agree
F35 supremacy
I love it as the perceived underdog, plus the 'B' has VSTOL. The F22 is a bit too cock-sure of itself. :^D
I like the f35c, nice aircraft and i love it more with candanananannanana having it
You know i live there now from that lel
Hey GS, I would love to see a mission where the F-22 and F-35 work together to complete a mission (such as the 22 gaining air superiority and the 35 doing SEAD or something of the likes). Great content as always!
Where can I find this F-35? Amazing video as well! Great work GS!
The F-117 that was shot down was actually pretty unlucky. Those aircraft had been seen opening their bay doors at a specific point to test the hydraulics.
Somebody screwed the pooch with ordering that test, when it was known that sleeper ground forces were known to be in the area.
My understanding was they (117s) flew the same strike route repeatedly so they were able to point the radar at like a narrow 1 km band and knew to expect it.
It comes down to DCS doesn't have much info on either jet (more info on the f22) because it's classified. They are modeling the sim from what they know from shows and info from pilots. As great as it is to see this sim from both fighters, it's not real world flying nor technology. A lot of tech has been developed for the f35 since the F22 and is highly classified. I respect both jets they are amazing machines. Great video as always really enjoy watching you fly!
It would have been interesting if you could get a datalink from the Patriot radar.
I'm not sure but I think the F-22 can't since it's using a different waveform datalink that can only talk to other F-22s.
Can we see you fly the f-35?
had me at “F-22”
Good to see the F35. Still waiting for the Super Hornet Vs. F35 fight!
I would like to see more F-35 videos
I always prefer peace, cooperation, and voluntary trade with everybody. But...
Get F-22's and F-35's together, as the tip of a strike force, coordinating cross-domain operations for a joint mission? Nothing even comes close to standing a chance.
4% of US GDP in action.
Two F-35s buzzing my house today, they are noticeably louder than F-16s.
Yep I lived within a mile or two of hafb for forty years barely noticed the f16s the f35s are ungodly loud in comparison
Since you've been doing videos with the 152, it would be cool to see an F-15 with the 152 (ramjet version) vs a Typhoon with Meteors
Would it fit in the weapons bay?
@@truthseeker9454 he said F-15 so it would be external!
Love you man, you're the reason I got into DCS a couple moths ago. Keep up the great work!
So would that be a tactic... Open your weapons bay to allow the enemy to send missiles, then close them to lose the lock, wasting enemy missiles?
F35 is a legit fighter aircraft, it's certainly not just a strike aircraft that can defend itself. It's just that it's been designed with a focus on BVR rather than close in dogfights and to work as a system with their information synergy. For example the 2nd F35 could have used info from the first F35 to fire a fox 3 at you.
BVR fighters tend to require big fuckoff engines for high TWR... Though the combat ranges for stealth aircraft are significantly reduced, lower time to target equals higher chance to kill... And I'm pretty sure that F-22s could also guide in each other's missiles, thats like... 1980s tech at least
Heya, love your videos. Would be really interesting to see a dogfight with an F-35 vs viper. Wouldn't mind super-hornet dogfight content either.
Thank you soo much for this!! Ive been wanting an F-22 F-35 vid so badly
"He took it in a non-critical part of his aircraft. Impressive"
“Ill show you how to do that when we get back”
is this F35 the updated version that can flat spin like an F22, and do cobra with full external loadout?
Day 127 asking for F35C vs F-18F
F-35B does not have a gun because of the VSTOL system.
F 35 next please!
wait.. since when does the F35 not have guns? It's supposed to have 25mm Gau/22
I think the B variant has no internal gun, but both the A and C do.
@@wraith444 cheers for the info!
The A variant has an internal one. The B and C variant carry their gun in a optional pod underneath.
What’s the point of having a gun on a f-35 though? If it ever merged with basically any plane , it’s instant death for the f-35. No gun on the planet can save it
The air force model has a gun (A), and the marine corps (B) and navy (C) variants use a gun pod!
What about the thermal search eye on the f35? Wouldn't that give it an edge? It seems like both times they spotted you first.
in clear weather like this ... yes the IRST on the F-35 would see the F-22 easily at those short distances
Would love to see the f35 and f22 work together using MADL and going against sukhois
To me it would be more interesting to see GS in the underdog aircraft rather than proving something we already knew would happen. I liked the formula of swapping aircraft and repeating. Love the content. C
F-35 SEED mission instead of F-16 next time please.
P.S. Love your videos dude.
I always found that F-22 and JAS-39 Gripen has quite a rough inside cockpit design (especially the LCDs' content and panels overall). How accurate are they acutally? I also would love to see some videos when you flying the YF-23 and J-20.
Remember, it's now actually 30 years old
As a former patriot missile air defender I would not fly anywhere near one of our sites...especially if you're a friendly 🤣
Now that Argentina is getting the JF17 I'd like to suggest a Brazilian Gripen x Argentine JF17 fight.
The sounds of jets ripping across the sky never gets old
I just filled the hottub, took my munch and i checked if growling sidewinder has new video. I am happy! 😂
The ground angle shots add so much cinematic value to your recent videos. Its hard to imagine what these dogfights would look like to a neutral viewer from the ground and your recent videos capture that feeling really well!
Is there a YF 23 for DCS? That would be so sick to see how it would do against the F 22 in a dogfight scenario.
could you possibly do a video on rudder use, when to use them and why. when i fly i tend to only use the stick
We really need some more f35 dogfights. Rven though they don't seem to keep up well, they are really entertaining!
A Raptor against two lighting-II's'. 0~o Sooooo we're kicking aggressive puppy's today are we. >~
Will you show us what you're looking at for all your information? Range, locks, RWR, etc.
F-35 doesn’t really get a ton of attention on this channel, especially BVR, it’s nice to see Fat Amy getting some love!
Do you think you could put the F-35s against some Su-35s?
Patiently waiting for more f-35 content.
I've always wondered how much of stealth is left when you start manoeuver, because the aspect of the plane is completely different and angles desgined to deflect radar when you're nose hot do not work that well. Does it really make a difference?
The coatings do. They will use the energy of the radar to create spins in the material that basically causes a one way street and the radar can't bounce back at all, it's trying to overcome the spins created from the radar that is still painting the aircraft.
Yes, absolutely. Stealth aircraft primarily redirect radar waves, the general rule of thumb is that shaping makes up 80% of stealth. (This is why 4th gens with RAM are only a fraction as stealthy as 5th gens).
They don’t absorb radar, they just redirect it to narrow bands of angles. So yes, as the aircraft passes through these angles the adversary radar will get temporary spikes in returns. And of course if the 5th gen is ever flying horizontally it will have a massive RCS since that’s just a giant flat surface. Although it should be noted that pilots are well aware of this fact and will fly accordingly.
Listen in bvr, it’s like 2 blind men having a fist fight but in a dogfight, the f22 doesn’t care about the skill of the other pilot
Except in a real life scenario, the F-22 would likely be outnumbered 4 to 1. A decade from now, it will be 10 to 1.
@@jporter504 if you are outnumbered 4 to 1 in an F-22 the world is ending.
Why does no one mention that the F117 was tracked because they flew the exact same route for over a week and also the bomb bay door jammed and compromised it's stealth capability. That allowed the SAM to maintain the lock after the ground system had lost track. In short the Same went pitbull and did the heavy lifting. It's all been declassified and is pretty much common knowledge. The USAF is about to shock the world with it's next air superiority fighter. It's actually a real thing unlike the Mig-41 and the Checkmate.
The F-35s would have alternated having their radar on and both would have had track to launch from a longer distance and near instantaneously shared via MADL which the F-22 may not have even detected being a next gen lpi radar. Poor pilot tactics and some missing capabilities of the sim made this a win for the F-22.
7:45 that's a good point. Some people may think a stealth aircraft is inevidably invisible. But it still can be found with tech, it's just harder to keep a read on it, especially for m rams. (at least in this simulation)
All you got to do is just create radar frequencies and scans that see irregular fast moving shapes
I've wanted to rewatch your F22 and F35 videos. This truly is the perfect video for me right now lol
F35 is just like that thicc but attractive american girl
The big question is ...what can fat amy kill...seems like it gets killed by every other jet...us fat amy the ford pinto of fjghter jets...?
Thank you very much for the video :)
I was not sure, you would read and respond to the comment section.
Thanks again!
I think the entire F-35 controversy could have been solved if it was renamed to F/A-35 so its clear its a strike aircraft, not a fighter
The f 35 crashing on that city at the end HaahahH f 22 pilot would be having a sit down with supervising officers after landing
Day #2 of asking for more content in the super Hornet
F22 vs yf23!!!!!! Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee
This video does a great job showing an argument I try to make as to why future aircraft still need to prepare for and train for close in fights. As more nations develop stealth, max engagement range will shrink to within 20 pretty often.
IMHO F22 is still my fav and still a boss.
On this channel I've seen a P51 Mustang take down an F22 more times than 2 F35s could
I think if he played with an f35 vs 2x f22 he would have also splashed the 2 f22
Day 22 of officially asking GS to fight a Su-57 in either a warbird or A-10.
More debriefs. Plz. Makes it easier to understand . For those just learning. Thank u
Would like to see an F-35 vs X number of 4th gen fighters in the same style as this.
I'm still not sold on the f35. F-22 is just something special!
Every f-35 pilot wants to become an f22 pilot when they grow up
Hahaha! Love it.
GS doesn't seem to realise how much of a difference it makes when HE is the one flying the aircrafts
I would love to see him fly the F-35
I mean, the other guys are great, but GS it's just at another level most of the time
These Stealth Vs Stealth Fights are Awesome!
hang on at 17:38 you can see the F-35 pull 22.3G and 39 deg/sec, wtf lol
@Growling Sidewinder What does it feel like to kill a quarter of a billion dollar’s worth of hardware?
Comparing a Strike Fighter (F-35) vs an Air Superiority Fighter (F-22) is like comparing oranges and lemons. The aircraft are optimized for different missions.
Re: sometimes you can detect at 30+ mi and other times they're invisible into 12 mi?
Shape-based Stealth is heavily dependent on what angle you are looking from. Thare are in fact some angles where F-22 and F-35 look like they're the size of a skyscraper on radar. Most of the time however they are more like the size of a golfball.
would it make any diff if the 35s were using wingman tactics, staying together? I guess no.. lol
Could you do a BVR battle between an F35 and a gen 4 fighter? F35 attacking ground targets with gen 4 fighters protecting would be interesting
I kinda want to see this same match up except replace the F-22 with a SU-57
I think SU57 might have difficulty BVR because F35 is stealthier. SU57 will have to dodge missles first before closing in.
@@jayvee8502 and that's exactly why I think it would be more interesting
its could be the F-35 turning with the belly facing you at 30 miles which might give you a better CSA for that period
I don’t understand all the hype around the F35.
F22 is a lot older, but so much better.
The f22 is an air to air platform the F 35 is multi roll
Hey GS! I have been watching for so long and even tried to join ur discord, but I’m 13. I would like to know if you are willing to fight in the f35 against the f16. If not you could fly the f16. I just want to see this. Thank you for all of ur hard work and please keep it up. I love the content
Me: just spent a fortune building my system
Me: still watching DCS videos from my iPad.
Wtf is my malfunction
I have an idea.
1 F-22 vs 2 F-35A and 2 F/A-18E
I don't know to what extent these DCS World modifications have the characteristics of real fighters, but I think this video doesn't capture the characteristics of the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning 2. I admit that the F-35 is not as good a dog fighter as the F-22, but when it comes to fighting on the BVR, I suppose the F-35 would be better than the F-22, because the F-35 is a newer aircraft and should have more advanced radar and electronics, so it should have a clear advantage in the case of BVR combat! That's why this video didn't convince me... 🤔🛦😲🤨👎
I say the F-22 wins and I haven’t watched the video. After I watched, I was correct. The F-35 can handle just about anything else, just can’t tangle with a F-22.
Iirc after Red Flags, Raptor pilots said that fighting F-35s was like fighting another F-22.
They were being sarcastic.
Who was? And why do you think that?
@@mittens4385 I have read the article, and one of the raptor instructors described the training as challenging because you have an addition of stealth fighters added to the red flag exercise and that they don't really know what the F-35 can do because they have been training against other 4th gens. But for some one to say the F-35 capability is like an F-22 is wishy washy.
The article I think you’re talking about says that the Raptor pilots struggled due to the F-35s easily slipping through detection methods and the 35’s advanced sensors. The phrasing suggests that neither aircraft had a significant advantage over the other. That’s not the Red Flag I was referencing originally though, I’ll have a look and try to find some sources later.
I’ve flown both F-22’s and F-35’s. This video completely misrepresents both airframes. I know everything. Trust me. And my dong is only 2 inches. But most girls don’t like it that wide.
You should do some f 22 merchandise for nz