The AC line cord cannot affect the sound of an amp, except, possibly, if RF noise (that includes transients) gets into the equipment and radiates. And that can be remedied with a simple common mode, and/or, series, choke, where the cord enters the cabinet. The source Z of the P.S, which determines its ability to deliver surges of current, depends upon the filter cap(s). And any drop in input voltage to the transformer, and therefore, output drop, is compensated for by the regulator.
Hey Ana(dia)log, I am your German counterpart. I made a video a few month ago explaining why "audiophile fuses" are snakeoil. I explained how amplifiers power supplies and rectifying works etc. After the video was released a hifi dealer contacted me (or wrote a comment) and said like: "yes alright I understand your technical explanation, but have you yourself ever tested such a fuse, not by measuring but by listening to it?" Well I never did so he offered to send me 2 fuses for my amp and phono-amp to test it myself. So I tested it and it was very easily audible. Then in a live stream I poke about it that I was wrong, that it makes no sense from a technical perspective but you can still very easily hear it. Pf course some of my subscribers were very angry, some even ended the subscription and some made fun of me. What did I learn from it? Always be careful what you call snakeoil. There are some things we can't explain but we can still hear it. Our ears don't have a physics phd.
Potentially can Totaly agree with you, believe you, but have you pay attention on ratings on that fuses? Are they with markings "F", "M" or "T"? What markings if original are? So, counterpart, be Germanly precise, please, when speaking in technical terms. Please.
Honestly if someone is open minded and after trying better changes his mind, they will have all my respect and appreciation. It's difficult to change idea, especially for your viewers that didn't have the occasion to test the fuses.
@@colloidalsilverwater15ppm88 yes it was exactly the same fuse, but sonically it should not make a difference if you use a standard fuse or a solid copper cylinder because on many amps you can bull the power plug and they continue playing for 20sec because of the huge capacitors behind the rectifier. Oh and talking about a bind test, the company selling these fuses performed a blind test at the last high end exhibition in Munich, Germany and almost everybody was able to spot the difference. (I was not present but I was told by some people that they did and that it worked)
We need to notice thet even ultra frequency is existing it may be produced by instrument at so low level that it is completly overhelmed by those which we fully perceive and which are produced in its main acoustic range charcteristic for it's material and shape. . . In graphs of analyzers we see top sopranos represented by colors and shape that they exist but no many people look at scale - if they exist at say 40 db below say zero level compare to 5 khz (how much is in reality evel of 20kHz harmonic for hit hat? ?) Listening to original instrument it should be less noticeable than awerage noise level in room. Even for percussion instruments the power of produced top harmonics is just small particle of those below 10kHz - add to it 10 db less hearing sensitivity and it shows that it is may be as important as mosquito fly during loud music.
Yet the majority of audiophiles have limited hearing and equipment that cannot play these frequencies, with recordings not containing these frequencies, with three foot cables than cannot produce a hearable perceived skin effect difference even by a bat. Most Audio systems still cannot create a perceivable difference in an E flat an F bass note, despite one basically being like a looser string, rounder with more oomph. Despite everything we believe about human hearing and audiophiles having better ears than Superman mated with a bat, audiophiles and all over music lovers sit between two MDF cheap cabinets with vibrating speakers competely unlike an actual instrument trying to convey a compete band in an untreated room with average electronics and talk about chocolate midbands and velvet highs. And due to how weak the human mind is, we will be tricked by two vibrating cones into perceiving a sound stage, instruments and performers. We are quite litteraly duped into imagining what we hear, so much is phsycoacoustic and placebo, to the point even seeing something can make us imagine it sounds a particular way, in teh early years many thought thin pure silver interconnects sounded, you guessed it, thin and detailed, and fatter OFC copper cables sounded more rounded and bass heavy, nothing to do with measured sound, it was looks, because in many cases if you put a thin cable into a massive looking cable, they heard a different sound. There is also blind tests showing audiophiles unable to notice a coat hanger, or even a £150 Alesis budget power amp, or a chair vs a hifi rack, in system tests.
@@Mikexception There's no such thing as "ultra" frequency! Instruments can measure GHz, that's 10^9 Hz. I have a rubidium frequency standard that is accurate one second in a billion years. What exactly are you talking about?
@@mosfet500 Because no specialists except me (but in different technlogy) mentioned it yet, and for it is not simple I think you also would have major trouble to understand this. ..I prefer for myself not to argue with all people who have problems to go along even well established processes .
@@Mikexception First, it's not an argument, it's a debate and everyone is entitled to their views. I'm debating issues within my field of expertise and what established processes? At one time the "established" thinking was that the world is flat, that didn't make it correct. The truth is not a product of popularity! What I find puzzling is you telling me that you prefer not to do something that you are in fact doing!
Regarding Hi res recordings and reproduction: 1. Analog systems that are specified "only" 20KHz (Main bottle neck is the speakers) are typically capable of reaching the 40Khz not flat but at - 6 dB lower due to "normal Roll Off" of 6 dB per octave. Same goes for microphones. 2. Digital "CD quality" recordings completely Block these frequencies using means of a "Brick wall filter" set to ~21Khz which greatly affect the audible frequencies in terms of phase distortion. 3. We cannot hear the presence of a constant sine wave of above 12Khz (20Khz) i.e. 30Khz. However we do hear envelope modulation of audio energy at ranges 20Khz to 40KHz (and Above) if this envelope modulates at audible frequencies (I.e. 1 Khz). An impulse of sound (Drum Stick hitting a cymbal) produces real life energy which can reach the 100KHz area. if limited to 48Khz, you get half the energy in reproduction. If limited to 21Khz you get 25% of the actual energy (Dynamics) of that sound. When a low level audible range harmonics are extended to the 20KHz 40KHz envelope band , it's presence and Definition (audio resolution) is doubled. All the above is conditioned of course to being first captured by the recordings means and reproduction chain. 4. I have a professional and even commercial experience in 1000's of old LP conversion to digital. I can tell you that most LP's contains musical information that reaches up to the 40Khz area. many have more that that. The Maximum I was able to measure reached the 60Khz area. 5. Of Course, the presence of a "HiRes" data File by itself is not a guaranty to the presence of HiRes audible information as we all know is very easy to convert low res audio files into hi res files format. I measure the HiRes Files of streaming services, mainly Tidal, and find differences between HiRes Files presented there. Some are truly hires, some are low res converted to Hires. BTW: I found that MQA format behavior (Now Abended by Tidal) is an artificially generated HiRss Content at 20Khz to 40Khx of a 44.0Khz origin music. 6. In a Subjective way of description, the Hires musical content adds a more "life like Metal" Feeling to guitar Strings, Cymbals, Brass, The Lack of that range bring the feeling of that sound more to the "Nylon Type" behavior Regarding Specs: Specs never tells how good is the system, Only How Bad (of some times how limited) is your system. In the 70s, a GRUNDING FM portable device sounded great and very enjoyable comparing to it's Japanese rivals. FM live music programs sounds so good even though FM reproduction is limited to 16Khz. There is a difference between enjoyable and faithful. The linearity of a Reproduction system is defined 1st by by the specs. I always preferred an analog amplifier with 100Khz FR. The 0.0001% distortion is not a guaranty for a faithful performance than 0.1% as it can easy being achieved by an overdone feedback loop gain which create an unpleasant musical experience. I am using my same reproduction system also as a Remastering system and there for requires the system to be accurate and enjoyable at same time so for example a tube system do not meet this requirement (At list not in my $$$ budget level) . Regarding Cables: 1. The Affect of Cable on a system performance is depends on System component sensitivity to cable, mainly by output and load impedance sensitivity. A 4 ohm Speaker will be double more sensitive to a 8Ohm speaker. A 1 meter cable will be 3 times better than a 3 meter cable of same type. A tube amplifier will be 10 time sensitive to a Load (including the cables) that a transistor amplifier. A Transistor amplifier with to High feedback loop will be more sensitive to load than a proper designed transistor amplifier. A tube amplifier input will be ore sensitive to inter connect affect than a transistor amplifier. A Higher sensitivity speaker will be an easier load to any amplimer comparing to a lower sensitivity speaker. A well designed power supply and well designed to RF immunity Amplifier and other system components will be les affected by a power cables than sensitive component. A 2 Meter Listening position will be 4 time easier for the system reproduction than a 4 meters listening position based system. So it is a matter of SPECS and knowledge to choose the right component and to do a proper match between system components where some systems can be using a "simple" caballing and other which are more sensitive requires a much better caballing. At any case you would need to have a very high definition system and listening room inorder to be able to experience the differences. Regarding Power: Unless you are using a Class A amplifier, the current drawn for your speaker is translated to a current drawn from the AC power. AS if you have a 1 meter speaker cable and 10 meters of Power cable you need a very good power cable. Regarding shielding the power cable: Similar but not the same same as shielding of the Speaker cable. Shielding the Speaker cable is a disaster in terms of capacitance load for the high frequencies. However, The Current drawn from AC power is in the 100Hz area. The Amplifier handles the high frequency demand using internal capacity storage. Regarding low power deices (Pre amp, DACs Atc): No problem of using a shielded cable. The Shielded cable (including for Power Amp) is needed (if needed) to protect EMI sensitive audio components which mean a not best designed products or in other words: to cover a poorly designed component of the system. In Generally it is better to have a system built from quiet and not sensitive components rather than to try fix the problem with shielding and power conditioning. Of Course, filtering the mains power input is always good to have. Regarding Burn in: If I Buy a new Shoe, I need to give it some time till it optimize its performance so for speakers for sure there is a period till it gets to have a stabilized performance.. If I buy A Smart phone, I do not need to burn in the device so for a DAC? I am not sure I will need a burn in time. For an analogue Transistor Amplifier? I am not usre. For A Tube Amplifier: Definitely. for a Phono Cartridge: Definitely. In Hifi, if I set a new gear component, in most cases time the "burn in" needed is for me to get used to the new sound, regardless if the component really needs a burn in period or not. I thank you very much for you interesting videos and items you bring for discussions.
100% Guido. Totally aligned here. I already know you’re unfortunately going to get some argumentative comments calling BS, but those are people without experience or understanding. The first to cry snake oil is people who only go by specs or measurements. Both are of course are very useful and important, especially in designing gear, but only to a point. Listening is the true test. I’ve used this quote before, but it still rings true. It goes something like, “We’re able to hear most we are able to measure, but we can’t necessarily measure everything we’re able to hear” - Herb Reichert Thanks, Guido! Appreciate you and your vids.
Herb is wrong! Just because an audio critic says something doesn't make it true. I read Jim Austin's (same magazine) assessment of cartridge loading and the guy didn't know the difference between an FFT and Bode plot, yet he was attempting to analyze graphs! He was laughable. No one is saying not to listen with your ears but read how easily people's ears are fooled, how cognitive dissonance completely biases people. Let's remember something, electronic engineering is electronic engineering regardless whether we are designing a missile guidance system or a DAC, the only difference is what we want the final instrument to do. Does it make sense that we make a cell phone that tells you where you're standing on the planet but we can't figure out how make an audio amp that's pleasing without mumbo jumbo? Do you have any idea what it takes for a GPS to work right? The timing alone is extremely precise. So we can't make an amp people like the sound of? Well we can. Nelson Pass sat down a bunch of people and played different amps to them. He found the majority like harmonics so he designed his amps around that and people love them.
@@mosfet500 You sound ridiculous. 😂🤣 I’m not even giving you the time to read past your first sentence, as you’re obviously not interested in having a discussion. Try speaking and acting like an adult instead of a child having a tantrum. Besides that, hope you had a nice Christmas, and I wish you a Happy New Year 🔊😊🎶🎄
@@mosfet500 Woh…! Slow down there, buddy. So, it would seem that your basis for, “Herb is wrong!” is because the editor of Stereophile can’t assess cartridge loading, analyze graphs, etc. Herb and Jim are 2 different people with I’m sure different views and opinions. Where did I say to not listen with one’s ears? In fact, I said quite the opposite. Measurements are hugely important, but if the end result doesn’t sound good, you need to try and voice the piece of gear via experience of what parts do what to the sound. I understand cognitive dissonance, but I don’t think my words were scattered nor confusing to understand. You seem to be talking about everything but audio. I understand what you’re trying to get at, but seems the circuitous route was taken to try and make a point. I am a huge fan of Nelson Pass and his work throughout the years, and I am very aware of how he uses harmonics in his amps to produce a more pleasing presentation.
I have to say this is an excellent and informative video, and it’s very well presented, hence I’m happy to subscribe to this channel and, as a result, unsubscribe from a one or two - possibly three - other TH-cam hifi channels which weren’t answering my many and varied hifi questions. I look forward to going through your past videos as I’m sure I’ll pick up a lot of good tips and general information/knowledge. Nice one😊
Hey Guido, another great video and I totally agree. You allways have to listen to devices and a certain brand is no garantie that your ears like it. What sounds good to ones ears is good and burning in is the most important factor. Had this experience with a phono preamp. Forgot to turn it off over night when it was new and after listening again, it sounded better than before. Same with old tapedecks. The components do get revitalized when getting used again.
That intro reminds me of something I read about, some years ago. There were people selling syringes of some concoction which you were suppose to squirt into your computer, to eliminate "viruses."
Thanks for your opinion. Alpha Audio is a Dutch chanel that messures cable with the noise and shows the noise that going out of the cable. Also with dacs and switches.
As someone who mainly restores cassette decks, I can only confirm that a 'burn-in' phase is unavoidable for the device. This applies to both the mechanical and the electronic components. The temperature development alone in a closed device changes the interaction of all components considerably. The same naturally applies to new devices.
Good talk on debated issues. I don’t worry much about any of these issues with a couple of exceptions - I like to warm my equipment up for an hour before any serious listening. I also make sure all wires and components are in good condition, connections are snug and wires aren’t wrapped in loops thus creating resistors. Enjoy the music. Happy new year!
If you design an audio amplifier with a frequency response up to 20kHz, then effectively you create a “filter” that rolls of the frequencies above 20kHz. Depending on your design, the frequency response curve will be flat up to 20kHz (within the specified tolerance). However also depending on your design, there will be more or less phase shifts in the audible spectrum around that filter point. If you design an audio that amplifier put to let’s say 40 or 60 kHz, then these phase shifts will also start at a higher (inaudible) frequency. These phase shifts are audible since our perception of a stereo image are bases on phase shifts that we hear when the sound waves enter our ears.
Not necessarily. We don't usually design to a specific frequency, we design to a a flat Bode plot within a frequency band perhaps but frequencies outside that band might drop off but are still quite level.
I am still very happy with my SKW speaker cables you recommended a few years ago. I have tried several other more expensive cables since and I have returned them all.
When I was younger in my teens and early twenties I would purchase components based on specifications. I learned very quickly after selling one of the best sounding systems I ever owned that I should just trust my ears. Now in my mid sixties and with failing hearing I’ve found that very good quality hearing aids can improve my listening experience. So now I can again only trust what I can hear.
One of the biggest improvements to my system was a Puritan grounding cable (connected to my Puritan power conditioner). This immediately lifted a veil of noise from my whole system. And for just around 150 Euro.
I totally understand your points, Guido, but I am a believer of the power of suggestion. First, the measuring equipment we have today is far more sensitive than our ears can ever hope to be. That means that, if you hear a difference, say, between one audio component and another, it should be easily measurable. Countless tests have proven that some upgrades, such as more expensive power cable replacements, or audiophile fuses, or fancy oxygen free speaker wires didn’t bring up any significant differences when their performance was measured with precision equipment. Why can you, me and most humans hear it, then? Well, simply because we want to. Our brains are complicated machines and suggestion can vary its perception quite wildly. If you paid $1000 for a speaker cable you are obviously expecting it to sound better than the $10 crappy one that you previously had. Boom, the difference is clearly audible, not because it’s there, but because you’re making it up. And that’s totally normal, inherently linked to the way we think. Even I caught myself investing in more expensive cables, for instance, or better fuses, knowing it wouldn’t make a difference, but I still heard it anyway. To prove my point, though, I did some blind tests in my gear (which eliminate any of the biased opinions caused by suggestion) and, sure enough, all the differences were gone. Try doing some for yourself too, you may be surprised… Anyway, thanks for the great video, as always, and happy holidays!
First of all, thanks for the nice comment. I don’t agree but at least you are polite and nice and I respect that and I will also listen to you and your opinions much more than other rude people here. Apart from that, I am sure that you did not hear differences in the end. I never said that it will happen automatically and surely. Some systems are just not influenced by these tweaks. It happened to me as well. High price bias? For sure but I truly think I am rather immune, at least after this amazing result: th-cam.com/video/IY800_YWrkE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UE9FuNWskbW607n4 I did ABX tests, of course, what I claim is the result of my impressions but also some tests. The fact is that, placebo, as explained in another comment, is in the middle ground, the gray area and it can occur. But when something is patently better or worse I think that in most cases it really is.
@@anadialog You think you are immune? Hilarious. It's not about "placebo effects." It's about how we hear sound, process sound and set it to memory. Bias effects (not the same thing as a placebo) is just one element. The important aspect of this is that a human can't process everything they hear. And as such we HAVE to steer our focus when listening. And that steered focus sets that listening experience and filters it. And that is why you can't successfully compare an aural memory to a live feed. The memory is limited to the steered focus that was imparted on it. No one is immune to that. It is a fundamental limitation of human aural perception. If you think you are immune to steering your focus try listening to two pieces of music simultaneously and tell how that goes. Heck, try listening to two people talking to you at the same time and tell us how it goes.
Of course we are prone to bias: have you ever noticed how we perceive the car to drive better after service, although it was just, say, an oil change? And it drives even better if they washed it! Still, I cannot agree that this bias stretches to price: for instance, I tried Kimber speaker cables from the PR, through VS, to TC. Every single time I go back to the cheapest one, PR. It just sounds most pleasing to my ears (and this was repeated with different speakers).
Hi Guido, congratulations for your excellent channel ! It is one of the best in audio hifi domain. I saw some speaker cables have ferrite rings on the ends.Is it making any difference or is it another snake oil ? My respect
Something that I have been verifying with my ears over the past few weeks is that my speakers sound so much better directly connected to my terminals with bare wire instead of the banana plugs I had. Really big difference IMO with my smsl sa300 connected to ADS L780 on my desktop. I will be doing this on my L980s in the big room soon. I know that GR Danny says that tube connections are the best so bare wire has to be right there also with surface area connection but I was losing alot of connection with banana plugs not compressing and touching the whole sidewall inside of the terminal. Anyway, that's my "snake-oil" experience....
Why does my Sugden Class A amp need about an hour of warm-up before it does sound right? Running cold it does have less body thinner highs. Any techninal explanation?
It's because the electronic components (transistors) need settling time before they are working properly my Denon poa6600a have the same issue they will sound a bit rough mostly in the low end when they are cold Kind of stupid but you can compare it with an old car wich needs shoke when cold and needs to warm up before running smoothly
Class A is the purest for overall sound, but it wastes a LOT of energy as heat because the output devices are fully "on" all the time. And because of that, the whole amplifier has to warm up before it reaches thermal stability, which takes at least an hour. Some may need more time than that. The alternative is leaving it on 24/7, which you will notice on your energy bill. A typical solid-state class A/B amplifier, on the other hand, reaches thermal stability in a matter of a few minutes.
Sometimes bottlenecks aren't that bad. Some or many "hi-res" files have a very high level of ultrasonic noise (it's not music) that some tweeters try to reproduce (resonances). I upgrade these files to CD-A quality.
Peter Qvortrup is the ultimate advocate of listening to the differences that even top quality components make in Audio Note equippment. They choose components that contribute the best combination of qualities to the sound. That is what makes Audionote a compelling proposition.
Hi Guido, There are some really worthwhile points you have made in this video. 1. Sub frequencies I would argue are even more important than high frequency. In my system, as you know, I have Wilson Alexia loudspeakers. I also have a Wilson Watchdog subwoofer. I don't necessarily use the subwoofer to lower the frequency response of my main speakers a comfortably produced bass down to 20 Hz, but I used the subwoofer to correct room modes in sub frequencies, which are usually the area, we have the biggest problems in most listening rooms. I agree with you that extending the frequency range of our audio equipment by using super tweeters and subwoofers does enhance the audible range of our hearing. 2. Agree with you in relation to specifications of equipment it's funny that my Vitus monoblock amplifiers state in their specs their rated power output is and I quote "more than enough."😂 I love this because essentially it's just taking the piss out of specifications.They mean nothing in my opinion as you rightly say it's all about how it sounds and how a particular piece of equipment sinks in your audio. 3. I know my friend you've done a lot of work on cables as have I. You make great points about insulation dielectric properties it really is super important in a good cable. Obviously, conductor materials are equally as important as connectors, where resistance is often at its highest. I also agree with you around the pricing of cables. Some of them are absolutely ludicrous, and there should be a rough equation around spending 10 to 15% of your entire Hi-Fi budget on cabling. I find that's a pretty good rule of thumb, but of course, there are always exceptions. 4. Cleaning up power is super important I use a PLiXiR3000 balanced power conditioner for all of my components and I have 3 20amp dedicated lines 2 for my monoblock amplifiers with the third dedicated line that runs the power conditioner very important stuff in high-end audio equipment. I always say the higher the resolution, the more you have to pay attention to the 1 and 2%ers. 5. Burn in is definitely something, especially in anything mechanical like subwoofers or speakers. The differences are very audible. In solid state electrical components not as obvious, but still there is an overall improvement with time. I've essentially agreed with everything you've said in this video Guido but just expanded a little bit in relation to my 35 years experience in this crazy hobby. Like you, I wish some of this stuff didn't make as much of a difference as I've heard it make. It would make life and my bank balance look a whole lot better.🎧👍👌
The most insane, illogical, and unsupported by theory, cable "snake oil," is AC power cords that cost $700 or more. I've SEEN these on Ebay! Their craziness rivals that of those boxes full of dirt that are connected to amplifier grounds.
On the 1st point: A few months ago, I played with equalization of headphones. In the first attempt on HiFiMan 400SE, I eq-ed a common notch at 17.5kHz - i.e., I added a 20dB resonating peak. I do not hear tones (in the same headphones) above 15kHz. Nevertheless, I've perceived that something was wrong, there was a "pressure" on my ears. Then I re-wrote my matlab script and ignored the notch. The "pressure" was gone, and it sounded "correctly". No, specs are lies in 99.999% The entire "audioscience" is a BS pseudoscience, and existing "standard" audio measurements are primitive stone-age relics. BTW, a null in frequency response does not mean that this frequency does not pass. It means that if you feed this tone to the device, the level will eventually (asymptotically) decline to zero. But transients (which music consists of) surely pass.
I hear the difference between a Redbook and 96.24 , it's like bringing the background up front! The microphones back then "gradually" drop off after 20k, it doesn't "abruptly" cut it off like Redbook!
I’ve been into Audio components since the 90s, don’t call myself an audiophile though as I consider that an illness. I would say that the only difference I’ve heard with cables RCA and speakers is Pure Silver core vs Copper. Absolutely no denying the fact they sound different because one ‘slightly’ distorts the signal and the other is the clearer path. There is no cable better than another only personal preference. I am a silver lover
Yes, there are frequencies beyond what people can audibly detect (even if they might be able to feel the vibrations of subsonic sounds). There are also frequencies beyond the range of studio recording equipment (sometimes by design) -- or frequencies that are limited or compressed so that (for example) they won't cause the cartridge stylus to jump out of the groove on a pressed LP. (There was a Beatles track that had to be withdrawn and remastered for that reason -- but I forget which song it was.) Many of my vintage '60s and '70s amps have high-pass and low-pass filter switches on them, limiting frequencies above or below certain levels that might be more than your ears or your equipment or your room can comfortably handle at certain volumes, depending on the recorded music you're listening to (acoustic 1950s Blue Note jazz? industrial metal? EDM? a string quartet? a Mahler symphony?). The question is: With your reproduction gear, in the sonic environment of your listening room, do you like the way the music sounds?
even if burn in is true, it does not necessarily mean an improvement occurs. Sound could actually get worse, right? i'm guessing any method that tries to prove that burn-in is probably flawed. sometimes people tend to underestimate the placebo effect.
Yes it’s funny how burn in always seems to be an improvement, never worse and then after a magic number of hours changes suddenly stop rather than continuing and ending up with an ever changing or degrading sound. They all deny placebo because their golden ears are above such human fallibility.
Obviously, burn in and warming up is true and an obvious fact. When I turn my TV on, what always happens with this one channel is that the picture continually breaks up and then in a half hour it is fine. Obviously the flawed reception becoming perfect reception is due to circuitry within the tv set warming up and doing a better job. Electrons make more and better pathways through the metal over a long time of use. Don't pretend to understand electrons. There are more electrons in a few drops of water than the number of grains of sand on all the world's beaches combined.
@ I think burnin refers to many unspecified hours-not minutes. I’ve yet to see anything but unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence proving it is effective. Yet another example of the Placebo Effect...
Now the points on specs are spot on. Myself, when getting bang for buck I do guiltily strive to find gear with for example the latest DAC, but just because a company uses the latest and greatest hot chips, doesn't automatic cally equate to a better listening experience. Proof in the pudding, compare say a Chord DAC to a Topping DX7 pro for example. The Chord may have an older chipset but sounds just as good if not better than the Topping. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Topping, in fact it's an extraordinary DAC at it's price point, but obviously implementation is important and ultimately let your ears do the judging before diving on the specs, couldn't agree more with Anadialog on this excellent point.
What is really important is doing good comparisons. If you are doing them sighted with substantial time between samples (more than 2-5 seconds) *That's* the problem right there.
Well, I don’t know about everyone else’s systems, and hearing quality, but I’ve got set of $545, Analysis Plus loudspeaker cables, and they sound fantastic. I also have some 12ft lamp cord that sounds (with sincere apologies to AP) just as excellent, at least as far as my ears can register.🌹✨
Brave, to be honest. I bought a PS Audio Power Plant (to protect my vintage equipment from high voltage (250v+ often in summer)) and i didn't expect it to sound better. It really did.. So I built my own power cables (thanks for the videos) and that did more than I expected too.. For cables. If your system can't resolve the subtleties these cables bring, there's no point. Perhaps it depends on age of equipment, but interconnects? Surely. Good UTP (network cables) work fine for speakers up to 750 euros a pair in my experience. Again, from your videos i decided to try speaker cable. Oh right, that did a lot... Since then (and lots of experimentation on lots of Systems with lots of people), i try first. Then again, if anyone doesn't believe it, don't do any of it. It WILL save you money. Well sort of, because now your equipment has to compensate for sub par elements in the signal chain, meaning you'll probably need to buy more expensive speakers and amps. I still see it happen regularly..
This video is snake oil! Audiofools must have some other physics yet to be discovered and seem to be the only group that think we don't know all the electrical properties of cable, and exactly how long do you think capacitors need to charge up (23rd minute of the video)? I agree that mechanical systems (speakers and such) need to be broken in, and in my experience can take quite a while, but electronic components...no. I prefer vinyl and tube amps, but that's because of the harmonic distortions present not due to some magical properties. I read a paper recently which talked about harmonic distortions (even order) matching your hearing "system", so perhaps hearing is the place to examine, not electronics.
Hi Guido, I agree audio cables should be good quality & inexpensive but you failed to mention equipment connectors. I just took delivery of used equipment & job one was cleaning the connectors (RCA & speaker) with cotton buds & pure alcohol. The junk on the cotton buds was horrible. As an EE I disagree on expensive power cables but, for safety, I recommend a whole house surge protector. I use ferrite common-mode chokes on AC & all DC power leads (especially switch-mode power supplies) to reduce RF noise entering your system. HTH. Cheers!
Almost every snake oil part has increased my satisfaction every time. I’ve noticed some snake oil items that I’ve removed because it was a negative effect. Like an EQ component was adding audible distortion. I’ve tried high end copper, silver plated copper and silver. I’ve found my nirvana with silver. I currently use my Mac Mini digital equalizer which has more band adjustments.
There could be a placebo effect too! But it's not only a matter of measurable performance, sometimes the feel of having something cool and special is enjoyable too
As a bona-fide audiophile, I wouldn't think of using pre-mixed snake oil. I raise my own audiophile-grade snakes in the back yard and use only the best ones to make oil. What a difference!
Hi Guido. Great video. Since we have talked about this for years, I'm not gonna write a novel about how much we agree - You already know. A couple of things I would like to point out though is that microphones aren't so much a limit as you seem to think. Think of measuring gear where the microphones go both very high and very low. Mic's are capable of more than most people think after being mislead by specs etc. And for instance some records (especially classical music) do contain frequencies up to 35 khz which can be played back with good pick ups and easily measured. We do have gear which can record and playback high frequencies. The 20-20khz phrase was pulled out of some idiot's ass back in the day to make things simpler and easier on themselves, but it has never had a place in the real world. And when it comes to cables I guess we have to live with the ridicule from Flat Earther's till we get measuring gear as precise and sensitive as our ears, because the difference is there and of course it will become possible to measure it at some point. Remember that people thought that black holes were silent till NASA proved them wrong? I hope you have had a really nice Christmas, and will have a Happy New Year. All the best from Denmark.
Well, in the last years I have really dived in microphones. Very few famous mics including famous models by AKG, Neumann or Telefunken rarely reached 20khz. As I said, the curve continues and more frequencies are certainly picked up but distorted. I am afraid that 35khz stuff is noise. But I may be wrong also because a lot of skilled techs modified mics for a better response. Yes, now we do have mics with extended frequency range but as you said they are used in measurement processes and scientific applications. Very rarely in music. Plus, DAWs (mix and mastering) will reduce resolution and sampling info when processing, converting and filtering.
@@anadialog Hi Mate. You should look into overtones from classical instruments, and the measurements on some of the records. You will realize that the high frequencies in some cases has very little to do with distortion. Mic's sometimes get modified, but in other cases people have a tendency to get blinded by specs, and forget that the 20-20k thing in the specs only show the linearity within reason in relation to the established set of rules for specifications. Fluctuations of the curve further up are rarely mentioned. But the more that get picked up, the better (though not linear) the result will become. You know the importance of high frequencies, and have looked quite bit into the research about it. Look a bit further and you'll find the research that confirms this, and what our ears tell us Stay awesome my friend.
@@anadialog Ps. The speed of cutting heads and cartridges sometimes get mentioned as argument for records not being able to carry true high frequencies. But only by those who forget about the carrier tones on quadraphonic records.
@@anadialog Any proper test microphone goes from 20 hz to 20 Khz flat to beyond 0.1 db after proper calibration. They are not used for their sound quality but for their accuracy.
Agree with most of the points. What is missing to me is the power of suggestion. Is not enough, in my opinion, saying: "I ear differences, hence there are differences". I've experimented that and, even in this field, there are tons of studies. Buone feste Guido!
And in fact, since it can’t by definition be objective since I don’t have scientific proof, I clearly stated IN MY OPINION. I would never claim I hear stuff then it’s real. After all I am a scientist in my real job.
In my opinion, there are enough evidences in hifi world, scientific and not, to start beliving that, for example, we can not tell apart a well engineered budget amp than a very expensive one (in most of the cases). Same history with cables and so on. Again, my opinion based on my personal experience and I would say my common sense (not saying I'm the only one with common sense). One last consideration: stating that an amp, cable, dac, etc. improves soundstage, details, etc. and then no mesurements, no explaination why, no blinding tests results to show... come on! Any way, peolple are free to belive stuff but it looks to me that many of us are not honest with ourself first and then irrational decisions are evident when the time pass by and we get into constant contraddictions (as I still do).
Ever since digital and SINAD measurements, there is a distinct portion of audiophiles who cannot enjoy music unless they can 'understand' why it works. They are far more concerned with 'why' something works rather than 'if' it works. They are also the kind who insist something cannot perform in the way that others have directly experienced because of numbers they've read on a spec page. They will tell you that you couldn't have had your experience despite their having never shared that experience. These people tend to never find a truly musical sound because they are stuck in the idea that music is 'science' and nothing more. They deserve that situation because of their know-everything arrogance, combined with total ignorance. ASR site is filled with such clowns.
Well said! There are many of these people.and they re-define how possibly annoying someone can be. Like something is wrong with everyone except them. Like they are seeing right through things. In reality it is more like they are looking at a mirror than seein through things. Their thinking and perception has problems...and they are Great.
@leeandrewclarke let me just run a couple of comparable examples by you and see if you can spot anything amiss. If at work I changed fuses in a control panel with gold plated ones and claimed the variable speed drive they were protecting seemed to be performing better and now the motor was now running smoother do you think I’d still be in a job? If you changed the power cord on your TV would you expect to see a better quality picture on the screen? Or how about changing the power cord on a printer? Should we expect better print quality? If you think the above would be silly then why on earth would we believe or even expect such nonsense to apply to hifi equipment? Do you think recording studios have gold plated fuses and fancy power cords? If you don’t think my examples are silly then that is worrying. Do you really think objectivists have never heard an expensive stereo? Do you think they have never tried fancy cables? You actually think they lack experience? Are you really that arrogant to believe that subjective audiophiles are completely immune to placebo and biasing? Yes they hear things but that doesn’t make it real. Objectivists have carried out more strict and thorough testing than the likes of you. Both measuring AND listening. Next time I want to know how much voltage is on a control circuit at work I should just switch it on and see how it works rather than measure the voltage with a meter should I? Get real this 2024 science and engineering knows far more than an aging audiophile with failing hearing with no technical ability at all. Do you really think we can send probes into space, have the internet, self driving cars, GPS, facial recognition and so on and not be able fully understand how to design build and test an amplifier or a DAC? Where is the common sense?
@@michaelb9664 You prove my point in your reply. I merely expressed my opinion, which others were free to agree, disagree or feel neutral about. Yet you felt the need to directly counter me, jump on my opinion and deny my experience, just like every objectivist. I honestly believe a principal reason for this is the need of people like you to smugly pretend you 'understand' things better than others, just like some in politics. You just can't let someone else's opinion stand. And your examples are fallacious and inappropriate. Motors and printers are physical devices. I wouldn't expect the motor on a CD transport to spin with an additional degree of precision just because I used a power cable with a higher quality conductor within. I would expect the movement of electrons to be less chaotic and hope that such a factor would improve the electrical circuit of a Dac or amp and hear an improvement. Certainly a difference in sound, although not always better. But if there is any difference at all then the potential for things to improve is there, even if it requires experimentation with different power cords and the kind of open mind that objectivists simply don't have. As for TV pictures improving due to an improved fuse or power cord, I've never experimented so will reserve judgement on those claiming to have enjoyed a better picture. I refuse to define the experiences of other people when they are experiences I have not shared. I don't have that need to lecture others, without the COMMON experience, that objectivists like you enjoy doing. I used to sell hi-end Hi-Fi and, over the years, I did blind tests to prove to clients the following; 1) That buying a CD transport and a cheaper Dac was better than spending all the money on a Dac and hooking up to the noisy and jittering output of a CD player. 2) That cables make a difference. in fact, I recorded the difference on a tape loop and lent the tape to clients to listen to at leisure in their home, to be fully appreciative before buying. 3) That controlling vibrations from motors with proper equipment supports will change the sound quality and normally for the best, depending on the tonal imbalance of a system. What blows my mind about objectivists is how selective they are in what they believe can make a difference. Most objectivists will listen to a high-end amp, rightfully decide it is better ( because it is due to higher-spec circuits ) and never consider whether they are merely buying, amongst other things, a selection of higher-grade capacitors. The fact that the inferior amp might have caps with exactly the same electrical values as the one they chose to be 'superior' will be something they chose to forget or disregard when they chose that to be the 'superior' amp. They know the superior amp costs more and they will accept their money goes into 'superior' caps even though that superiority is usually only heard, not measured. You do know there was once a time when objectivists believed all amps, properly designed, HAD to sound the same? At the same time that such objectivists usually have no problem spending big on a superior circuit path in an amp which may be only six inches long, they then refuse to spend on quality speaker cable, which is electrically just a continuation of that same circuit path. That's like bothering to spend hugely paving twenty yards of a mile-long road to smooth perfection while leaving the rest a pot-holed mess. I have heard my system evolve through the choices I made. You weren't even there. So I'll thank you to literally mind your own business. Objectivists like you belong to the self-proclaimed pantheon of people who, throughout all history, made the mistake of believing mankind had perfected an understanding of something and that nothing that existed outside of that understanding. They told us the Earth was flat, was the center of the universe and that microbes could not exist, let alone the sub-atomic. Believe me, most of what we think we know now will be revised in time, including aspects which relate to Hi-Fi. Me? I'll trust my ears to tell me what 'works' because they are the only portal to 'reality' I have. To let someone else tell me what sounds good makes about as much sense as letting someone else telling me what a beautiful woman looks like. I trust me and I buy to please me, not a spec sheet or that weird objectivist stance that, despite the fact I can't listen to my system for more than an hour because it sounds inhumanly cold, I can at least find satisfaction in telling other objectivists just how much better my system 'measures.' Now, I've answered the unwanted and unrequested challenge you've thrown my way. I hope you've seen a different way of looking and things and maybe considered opening up your mind but, if you haven't I respect that choice. But will you please stop pretending you and people like you have a perfect understanding of even the technical apsects of music-making, let alone how that could relate to the entirely subjective experience of individual musical preference. We are people, not machines, and so measurements can never define the full picture of what we like. Please allow others to have the human experience of deciding what works for them in life. It's people like you who hold back the advance of improvements ( which are usually technically understood years later ) in Hi-Fi by persuading others not to even listen, thus preventing those improvements from reaching more people. Now, I suspect you will continue trying to 'win' because you clearly need to police other people's opinions. So go ahead and write back explaining how wrong I am. I won't bother reading it. You just cosy up to your measurements and give my love to the acolytes on ASR.
@leeandrewclarke I’m not going to try winning anything mate. You’re picking and choosing where the laws of physics apply and comparing those backing audio science and engineering with flat Earthers is absurd. It is not me with a closed mind. I’ve been there and got the T-shirt. I was an audiophile in my teenage years 30 years ago and I used to read all the mags. I was getting hifi separates for Xmas as a teenager and I was polishing my mains fuses and saving up for fancy cables and swapping them out and I marvelled at all kinds of things I thought I could hear. Then I gained electrical and electronic qualifications and ended up in an industrial electrical career. I’ve read up on how to conduct proper listening tests removing all bias. I’ve got a good idea on what is plausible and what is stuff out of fantasy land. I’ve since performed my own controlled as well as I possibly can blind tests and I can’t hear diddly squat from not just one cable to another but also one DAC to another. I can’t even tell my amplifiers apart from one another. Speakers and headphones for sure, cartridges and styli yeah! Cables, DACs, good amplifiers operating within their limits, power cords, fuses NO! Just no. My hearing has been tested and my gear is suitably ‘resolving’ before that’s thrown out there. The problem I have with subjectivism is that it is only anecdotal opinion that is touted as fact and when science proves what can and cannot have an audible effect the subjectivists can’t admit that they are fallible and can fall for human influences that affect what we hear. I’m not saying you can’t hear what you hear. I’m saying in a controlled test you wouldn’t pick out what you think you can and it’s a very enlightening experience when you do perform such tests. I’m saying the guy in this video is denying physics when he says a 3ft mains cord is the first electrical part of the chain and can have audible effects. The only effect it has is on the mind. This is proven by science and engineering. You wouldn’t put a fancy mains cord on a kettle and expect your tea and coffee to taste better would you? By the way audio equipment is a physical device just like a printer, or a motor, or a computer or a TV is. Have a great holiday season and play some tunes!
Merry Christmas..Tubes are magical like angels signing with silver dbs strings in mist ov dam😊 Tube box s2 with telefunken is not suggested it heats smelburn
Cable burn in,cryo "treatment" and "audiophile" fuses could be included in this video.Oh,cable risers too.There's alot of questionable stuff being banded about.
Those things all work. People who do not understand physics jump to the conclusion that they are snake oil.Joining the herd of other people who audio signal transmission is just too complex for. Cable risers get the cable off the static firld of carpets. Have you ever rubbed your feet on old carpeting and gotten a tiny spark shock when you turn on a light switch. Cyrogenic freezing permanently changes the molecular structure of the metal and could be beneficial. Change almost anything and there will be a change in something else; in this instance sound quality. In ancient times when there was a bad storm, people were paranoid that the Gods were punishing them. The same mentality persists today with some. I don't get suspicous unless there's real reason to get that way. Also I wouldn't throw accusations unless I had expertise enough to know what I was talking about.
@sidesup8286 Well,those are the advertised "benefits",but evidence is in short supply.People tend to use risers irrespective of the floor,whether carpeted or not.Cryo freezing only works if the conductor stays cold.Once returned back to room temperature it goes back to it's original state. People can believe in whatever they wish, I have no problem with that at all,but it does leave the door open for some questionable methods which can be exploitative. I have my doubts about some of it's efficacy,even after trying out a couple of them ie raising the cable temporarily and using a posh fuse.
I have had about a dozen different stereo combinations in the last 15 years and raising cables off the carpet made an easily heard improvement every time, with so many different components. Cyro freezing I have never tried, but I seriously doubt if the cables would still have to be cold. If you put your hand in minus 400 degrees for long enough; what would happen would be a permanent change. Same with metals. I do tweaks myself with fuses and I can easily hear an improvement there. I see no snake oil in any of those things you mentioned. Now some of the pricing; that is a different story. I remember back to 1982, when the best preamps on the planet cost around $1,000. Not 20 times that. Epicure 3.0 speakers from around then still would beat most $2,000 speakers of today. So might the Sony SS-M 7 speakers.
@@sidesup8286 People who do not understand the physics? Right....please tell us what physics we are failing to understand when it comes to these tweaks. And do tell us about these alleged "complexities" of the transmission of an audio signal. And audio signal is really pretty simple. You have amplitude and time/frequency and both are quite finite and within a pretty small bandwidth.
@@sidesup8286 Easily heard until put to a blind test. Like all the other snake oil tweaks. And did you seriously make an analogy between cryogenics of metals and freezing a human hand? Amazing....Please don't talk about understanding physics if you are going to make such a ridiculous comparison.
The spec sheet would tell the whole story, but only if it would be complete (impossible) and all the measures done by third party with standardized procedure and equipment (very difficult). If differences can be heard they could be measured, but given all the nuances there can be in audio equipment the spec "sheet" could be a book of 200 pages. Other than that I don't have a ton of experience, especially with high end stuff, but despite that I have felt quite a big jump both changing cables and with burn in. For those that negate the effect asking why the change is always positive, I'll answer: it doesn't. I was deluded by a silver cable, and I have a pair of earphones (planar magnetic) that I preferred how they were before the burn in.
@@karellen00 My improvement from copper to silver plated copper was more transparency. My difference between silver plated copper and pure silver was precise imagery, smoothness and no shrill in the highs. This sound was proven when I added a silver power cord in my power speaker. I had no negative effects that I had before. There was no shred of doubt upon the improvement it made.
Hi, I have a microphone cable ( cordial 234- red, blue and the shield) with neutrik rca conectors. I know 2 methods to solder it (well just one :) : 1 both red and blue to hot+ and the shield to cold- 2 one from your videos : red to hot+ and blue to cold- with the shield together only at one end. ( I don t know if this method is better than the first point and i want to know this). Please send me a message when you have time, happy holidays! 🙏
Back when I was 15 + everything was 20 to 22 Khz and 8 / 16 Ohm and higher, 4 Ohm and lower was very hard to find, only in the East where almost nobody had access to it, and it wasn't cheap either I remember my first dual with 2 speakers and my 2nd was a Marants tower with radio, tape and record player with 4 speakers on a chrome base with 5 feet lol;l You can judge speakers on their construction and especially the placement of the 3-way system drivers, but that is not the right taste of sound for everyone, e.g. heavy metal or classical music
I frooze a CD for a day or 2 and I got better sound from it and my favourite thing to do is to use the Densen De Magic CD (and Nordost's CD) and DVD (for multichannel).
I think false Snake Oil claims are easy to validate or invalidate by simply listening to different systems. What I find people not discussing enough or clearly enough, IMHO, is where the line of diminishing returns stands and can a system benefit from an upgrade taking into account the weakest link in the chain (it can be a great weakest link).
Each element of a HIfi system will have its own line, and things change dramatically between types of employed technology. For example GanFET, when done correctly, appear to be much better that traditional mosfets (except for VFET IMO). That technology can compete with extreme high-end solid state amps at a fraction of the price.
Though it would support your less "real physics" arguments than my more scientific ones, there's a paper written quite a while ago, 1961 I think, that you may find interesting (and incidentally, may also inadvertently suggest why more women should do the listening tests rather than men) - it's available on line, " Sineward, Distortion in High Fidelity Amplifiers " by John W Campbell Jr. He talks about how ears hear, and that measurements (of valve amplifiers in his case) do not properly explain how sound is perceived, and in particular how important phase shift is in hearing. I suppose you could extrapolate the same viewpoints to any point in the hifi reproduction chain. I think the paper also indicates why valve based single ended amps (SET) with little feedback sound so good, though the paper doesn't actually explore that. On a slightly different topic, one thing I think all reviewers should test and state is their own hearing acuity...mine is considered very good up to about 5kHz, drops off rapidly to 7KHz and then is pretty much non-existent for any higher frequencies (I'm definitely not Mr Golden Ears!): do you think it would be useful to know yours and other reviewers?
Roger Russell (who's website links to the article, states..."The example of the amplifier in the article demonstrated that an amplifier that has a bandwidth to only 20kHz does not sound as good as an amplifier that has extended bandwidth to perhaps 80kHz or more. The reason is that the ear can detect waveshape transients that require extended bandwidth even though we cannot hear sine waves beyond 20kHz" So if true, we should be ensuring cables are good to such high frequency levels which again may support your case rather than mine!
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I came across that but I will double check. I already stated my pure sine wave limit plus furnished a test here: th-cam.com/video/ZvOgZqVLYSM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3UewWF7qBw4y38R3
There was probably a lot of truth to that back in 1961. Measurements and correlations between measurements and human perception have come a long way since 1961
What's amazing is that so many people already spent some $$$$ on their HiFi systems, but decline to even try out some $$ or maybe $$$ "snake oil" items. Instead they claim that the "snake oil" item couldn't possibly have an influence on sound. How smart is that?
ASR has alot of cult followers. Most are on a tight budget and filled with loudy spoken people hidden behind a keyboard. Anything to reduce to spending and to argue not to spend money is ideal. ASR memebers constant arguing with each other as themselves cant get it right. This just a hobby have fun & enjoy
I agree, but sometimes you have to draw a line. It doesn't matter if I even would have 100K$ worth of audio gear, I would never spend 1000$ on an audiophile Ethernet cable. But I still agree that part of the hobby is experimentation, and especially if the item is not hugely expensive you should at least try the stuff before telling your story
@@medonk12rs Even if you are 100% sure it's snake oil? It's a digital cable, it either works or not, if the signal passes it gets redigitalized, otherwise it would stop working. Also it's network stuff, the signal is moved to a buffer where eventual packets that got lost are retransmitted. But most importantly, even if it worked, what's the point of getting a good quality cable for just the last meter if you keep the crappy one you have inside your walls?
@@medonk12rs depends on your system. if you have a revealing system cables can make a difference. how i see it many objective audiophiles are low-budget-oriented and in general not revealing. Therefore any excuse not to experient (spend money).
May work, but only if its virgin snake oil, cold pressed on a cloudless full moon night by 90 years old master of his craft. Those other el cheapo run of the mill snake oils wont do it....
When I desing an amplifier, I made it so the roll off start at 50kH and at 5H. So the stereo imaging is better. Many companies advertise the same numbers but the roll off begin at 15kH and 15H. I use digital sources. And people aren't able to tell. Digital has better spec than analog sources. 14:57 You won't have a document because unless you use telephon wires for your speakers and the cheapest rca wires in the world for connection, the difference is psychological. No serious company will put data that doesn't exist. That's why I don't particularly listen to audiophile mumbo jumbo. When you pay obscene amount of money for something like cables, of course you will "hear" a difference even if there's none. Comparing blood tests with cables is absurd. Test are done to extract the data. The results don't change because the analyst feel like it or work with a new jacket that morning . With accurate testing yes you can absolutely say that. I desing electronic system of all kind for probably longer than many people have been alive. Psychological factor is and always have been irrelevant. Measurable and quatifiable data is all that matter. Any components that need a burn in time period isn't good. It's defective. There's a huge psychological factor all of this. English isn't my language. 16:50
I did not compare blood test with cables. I said that how we analyze things, anything, for example a blood sample, or a cable, or any type of compound, can give results only based on what you ASK. Meaning that the tests we do on cables are always voltage oriented, and on specific aspects. We are not asking all the correct questions to understand their behavior.
All of this is true Passion for Sound TH-cam channel just did a video on hearing in humans based on a scientific study Amir and the ASR acolytes hate tubes and R2R because of the SINAD worship Saw a TV with and without a power conditioner and the picture quality was way better on the power conditioner and seeing is believing … it was beyond dispute but if you had clean power to begin with it may not have made any difference or not If you have the money it is worth it if you don’t spend the milk money
Placebo is overrated. Placebo is in the middle ground, in the gray field of HIfi. When something becomes much better or much worse, black and white, then it is true. When you think that it seems a little better (or worse) then you may be experiencing placebo.
Unfortunately no matter what you say naysayers are stuck in their bubbles and will never believe anyone that has gone the extra mile and experimented with different gear etc etc. If you ask them if they have tried higher end cables etc they will divert the conversation most of the time.
this is a very common trait of Objective audiophiles who only chase the distortion numbers. Have you noticed most if not all youtube objective reviewers never express how a speaker or component sounds like? rather their subjective view is it has a dip in the mid etc? does believe not acoustic panels are required because Dr Toole said so. only need to listen to one speaker to evaluate how a speaker is.
Ever noticed how subjective only audiophiles never conduct any blind listening tests and refuse to accept they are human like everyone else and as a result are very heavily affected by bias and placebo? Pick out your special cables in a blind listening test repeatedly and prove objectivists and engineers wrong. If what you hear is real it should be very easy to do. You think you hear these differences in cables? Prove it. Explain why a null tester doesn’t highlight differences in the signal if differences are there. Do you even know what a null tester is? Magic and pixie dust isn’t how electricity works.
Don’t let that reality get in the way of your narrative. Keep on telling the world and yourself that folks like me don’t really exist and nobody who thinks your cables aren’t magic have ever ever listened to an actual stereo in their lives.
That's very true, and manufacturers play a lot with that sometimes asking you to run the component for 100 or more hours. But sometimes there's undoubtedly a certain difference. At least for mechanical equipment, like headphones or speakers that have stuff that flexes and that need time to break in. I'm not 100% sure for electronics and especially cables where I can't imagine what it would change, but having not tried I can't even say it's snake oil. Oh, tubes excluded: sometimes especially new old stuff need some time to get rid of oxidation and stuff like that.
@@anadialog Partly agreed. Not the main issue. Just 4th on the scale...or 10th. Sorry, Guido, you are worrying too much of the wiring. Protocols are the main importance.
From my experience speakers that have an ultrasonic high frequency responce can often sound awefull bad , particularly when excited with a C.D. . Some one once said "what you can't hear affects what you can hear " I'd agree , It makes what you can hear sound awefull BAD . Supersonics are for the Bat's and your Dog . Music is Harmonious , and all about the Sonics and the achoustics . Speakers that can manage around 13 to 15 Khz should sound good with C.D. and L.P. If the tweeter is a paper cone like the Bass / mid , results should be fine. That's what works for me .
Regardless opinions, true sound is a dull bandwidth, including subsonics and ultrasonics. That is a fact. Hence, a higher fidelity must contain those frequencies. An obvious syllogism.
Expecting that high resolution digital processing will result in better perception of music is like to expect that steak will be tastier because was cooked on more modern grill.
Not at all. The same live session, if recorded in high res will have more information. That extra info helps in certain types of music, like jazz and classical. High-res Beyoncé is rather useless.
@@anadialog Ok - I do not say it is not improving at all - a lot depends is as you say on recording feautures and may be even on class system . . In my perception CD quality is already above my demands - it blows my mind and satisfy me So I give up complains about lack of anything more I simply do not desire more but I did not want to negate positive opinions about High Res. .
You lost me at item 3 ("Cables"). This truly IS snake oil. For speaker cables of reasonable length in a reasonable room, there is no difference between zipcord and all the big fat "oxygen free" nonsense. I'm a EE, and I can tell you that if you can't measure whatever it is you're talking about then it isn't real when it comes to cables. The transmission of power from an amp to a speaker at audio frequencies is just not complicated. Similarly, if you have a decent amplifier with a decent power supply then there is literally NOTHING you can do to the power being delivered to the amp that will cause ANY measurable effect. Fuses? Really? TOTAL SNAKE OIL Any electronic component in the signal chain that changes after being used ("burn-in") is BROKEN. It is clear that this presenter has no understanding of what electronics actually do. This is all snake oil.
@@Habitual_Liar You miss my point. I've been listening to great audio for decades. I use Monster Cables that I bought an eternity ago because they come with banana plugs that are easy to attach to my speakers (MagnaPlanars). Cables don't matter. If you really want overkill, twist together the ends of two or three parallel zipcord conductors for each side of each speaker run. There is NO magic in speaker cables -- and NO difference (other than physical convenience) between them.
@@thomasstambaugh5181 I’ll have to disagree. I have heard very noticeable differences with cables. Not always better but different. Audio Research would also agree. From the Audio Research Ref 150SE manual Important Use the best available speaker wires and interconnects. Audio Research cannot emphasize this enough. As better components and systems are developed, it becomes increasingly important to avoid the limitations of inferior system interconnections.
Exactly they forget that the internal wiring and soldered links within equipment are much lower gauge and far less exotic than the cables they interconnect with. If overpriced cables made any difference the internals in the gear would be a bottle neck anyway, but they don’t think of that.
The quality of cabling inside speakers sometimes are not the best. It is what it is. But avoiding any further degradation is the idea; and why people buy premium cables. Some are worth it and some are not.
You are passing off snake oil in this video!!! Absolutely you can tell whether or not components from the source components to the amps can be determined to be audibly transparent by specs AND measurements (not the same thing) Only when it comes to components that clearly are operating above the thresholds then we have reason to listen to see if we LIKE those colorations. And if you want to call this claim bullshit I would be happy to offer you a bet that you can't hear differences between components that exceed the established thresholds of audibility in their "specs and measurements."
Some things are snake oil & some things are not. I assume you have heard everything, and your particular perception is the pinnacle. No...wait a minute, I won't assume that...to hear everything you wouldn't have time to sleep or eat. I won't assume your ability to afford the finest or to discern audible differences between things is THE MOUNT EVEREST standard setter either.
One does not have to hear everything to understand that the laws of physics are consistent. Why audiophiles think they and their gear is not subject to those same laws is beyond me. I don't have to cut myself to know I bleed. It's already been tested. I don't have to drop valuable items off the roof to know gravity continues to work. I don't have to listen to every cable to know that basic cables that have already been thoroughly tested are utterly audibly transparent. I don't have to listen to every DAC, amp, preamp or other component to know a large body of other competently designed and built components are utterly audibly transparent. It's been tested 50 different ways with the same results. If I told you I could run 100 mph would you have to come out and time me to know it is bullshit? Or would you just know because you have a basic idea in regards to how fast a human, any human can actually run? These things do not exist in a void. We have mountains data and references in audio. We don't need to keep retesting claims, particularly when we have a really good, proven and easily demonstrated alternative explanations for these claims. That is sighted auditions with substantial delays between samples (more than 2-5 seconds) can cause us to think we are hearing differences where none exist. That's a fact and is easy to demonstrate.
The ONE PRESUMED ASSUMPTION that people like you would want people to overlook, skip over and assume is that you know and understand EVERUTHING. Our greatest scientists, WHO DO have great minds, are smart enough to know that they don't understand LOTS AND LOTS of things. So they have something else that you don't have...an open mind. And they TRY THINGS TOO. Enough things! There are more electrons in a few drops of water than the number of grains of sand on all the world's beaches combined. Beyond human comprehension. The world is a lot more complex than you realize. Unless you know everything, you cannot say what IS and what IS NOT possible. You don't hear improvements with your cheap cables. Other people who afford better stuff hear differences...huge improvements. I do too.
If you were blindfolded and someone switched the cables you are using while away, withe the cables I'm using; within the first 30 seconds you would be greatfully thanking your wife for buying you a whole new stereo. It is NOT a fact that cables can't make an improvement. There are multitudes of us who know they can and do. To the others who do not know yet, all things lean toward that way. The greatest minds in audio history were GREAT minds.EVERY one of the great ones heard improvements, makedly so and more. Most people really serious into audio sound quality, hear it too. I would say the majority; not just an occasional odd one.Trying to put one over that cables make no difference is a FACT like gravity or human running speed ability....No! We both know that is not a reasonable analogy and has absolutely no application at all HERE. Scientists are smart enough to know to actually try things first. Enough things and enough of the right things before they would even think of drawing absolutistic conclusions. "All theory" guys are not scientists or scientific, and there is no proof (as you claim) that cables make no improvement; because they do. You can fish up some very flawed studies (if you call them that) on anything, in hopes of supporting any viewpoint. The opposite side too There is much more credible reasons to think that cables definitely can make improvements, than anything of questionable nature. If you go high up enough the quality chain; they are better quality and really perform better; just like any other category of audio equipment
@@sidesup8286 It is a fact that basic cables are audibly transparent. If you are using some cable that deliberately or incompetently colors the sound and you like it so be it. But cables that do color the sound do so as simple passive equalizers. If you think you can tell the difference between cables by ear alone just tell me when and where you want to put it to the test and how much you want to wager on the outcome. Talk is cheap. Do you walk the walk?
people interested in hi fi would do well to learn a few basic laws of electronics, and , more importantly , how human hearing works only subjectively , so one can only think what you hear is reality.
Yes, and it's regrettable that it's apparent, from what he says about power input, that this individual doesn't understand basic electrical/electronic theory,
How human hearing works subjectively I would imagine is the ONLY important thing; unless you are a machine or robot listening. Sound signatures of speakers sound completely different in different rooms. Who would be so foolish to think we are hearing the same sound signature with our human ears as a measuring device. Those are two different things, and there's a little something in between those two different things, that need studying. Focusing on the observed, without taking into account the observer and his totally different apparatus is absurd. You are much more concise now babe. Proud of you!
@@sidesup8286 So the actual sound itself isn't important, just how someone perceives it subjectively. Just get drunk and listen to the radio. It will be subjectively amazing!
It's the New Year. It's 2025 now. I have way better things to do than talk with n*ts.....Feel free though to carry on this uninteresting argument with yourself.
@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of low priced Hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, it's been documented. Even Techmoan did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "hifi" audio systems
@@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of lower-priced hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, It's been documented. Techmoan even did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "lower-priced hifi" audio systems.
What electrical/electronics qualifications do you have? How much experience do you have with sophisticated test equipment? What do you know about measuring AC voltage and viewing it on a scope? How about null testers? Anyone who disregards measurements and also disregards bias and placebo is nothing more than an empty vessel. Opinion and biased perception are not facts. Are you confident you could audibly identify a fuse swap without knowing it’s been swapped? How is a power cord the first 3 feet of cable? Your equipment is consuming electricity not generating it. No audio signal is carried by a fuse or a power cord the PSU in the equipment filters all of the crap out before the audio circuits unless you’ve got really terrible gear. No understanding of electricity or electronics whatsoever and that is clearly demonstrated here. As well as no understanding of how fallible we are as humans and how very easily our mind plays tricks on us. We have to remove all forms of bias and carry out controlled level matched listening tests to subjectively evaluate anything and any reported noticeable changes should be able to be repeatably identified. My system can change from one day to the next, but it isn’t the system it’s me.
The technical and subjective must be considered two DIFFERENT things, since for over 60 years the best audio reviewers of all time have been telling us that measurements rarely give even a clue as to how something actually sounds. It rarely coincides. Let's not PRETEND that measurements are more important than our perception. There's not one speaker or electronics company on the planet worth its salt, that prioritizes measurements over listening tests. If it measures great but doesn't sound good; it never goes out the factory door. No one out there should forget to realize that there is a lot of difference between the way something measures and how it actually sounds. If our meaauring tells us one thing and our ears tell us another, as is generally the case, then we have a ling way to go in understanding, integrating and correlating what measurements say and what ACTUAL human perception says. These "measurement gurus" have a shaky foundation. Their arguments are based on the wrong premise and foundation: that measurements jibe with what equipment actually sounds like. Starting with a wrong premise predictably leads to wrong results, conclusions and beliefs. Don't let measurement gurus force their wrong beliefs on you. Experimenting and listening for yourself is always way smarter.
@sidesup8286 equipment shouldn’t sound like anything. Do you not understand that? My perception is different to yours and yours is different to someone else. I’ve seen subjective reviews by different people that contradict one another. So where is the actual quantifiable data when subjectively assessing something? Subjective bias and placebo are far stronger than you realise or care to admit.
First of all where did I say any of those things? Secondly, I am no amateur and where did "you don't understand that a system shouldn't have a sound of its's own come from?" I go to great lengths in my mods to decrease things like electronic signature and colorations. Naturalness of sound and truth of timber is probably the main thing that my 30+ years of audio experiments have been about. Saying that I don't understand that is ridiculous. Maybe NO ONE understands that more than me. I have been able to triple or near quadruple my sound quality over the years with mods. Inexpensive mods that are cheap (usually). Believe me, I do not have to ever upgrade. My next upgrades are my next ideas whenever they come.Someone once asked me where do my ideas come from? If I knew , I'd be there right now,; getting more ideas. They come when they come. Is it so hard to understand that if measurements by a machine do not correlate well with what himan ears perceive, then there's more to learn, before we start accusing people of faulty perception. Sounds like half a** backward thinking to me. Do you really think someone who can fricking triple sound quality has been experiencing placebo and expectation bias? There are scores of really intrlligent people out there whose thinking AND prrception is likely well beyond your own. And it is likely your thinking and perception thst is faulty.
@@sidesup8286 J Gordon Holt "Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing."
Wutz r u bubblin' noobs..my experience r vinyl, tapes or cassette or even CDs r just nostalgic memories..we r now digital all the way..u can Still lives in ur analogue..gd luck noobs..Peace!
@ they call it test run / quality control etc. but almost never burn in. And time spent on it is maybe 24h not 100h. However, f.i. Black Ice Audio indicate on their website that they do burn in before sending out their amps.
![ANA[DIA]LOG](http://yt3.ggpht.com/K0qr1ndqDdGUyxbMUYesdA0KM3wZ-_upZ4bvQR8Vi_Ie1773eXoIXY2VblfzWYRJnwxd5pVrbXw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
Music sounds better with beer. I have tried this for the past two days😅
No question.
True! 😂
Bourbon usually opens up the soundstage. Any bottle $80 or above guarantee’s it. 😉
yes - whisky is also nice
It just makes me sleepy.... Can't drink....
The AC line cord cannot affect the sound of an amp, except, possibly, if RF noise (that includes transients) gets into the equipment and radiates. And that can be remedied with a simple common mode, and/or, series, choke, where the cord enters the cabinet. The source Z of the P.S, which determines its ability to deliver surges of current, depends upon the filter cap(s). And any drop in input voltage to the transformer, and therefore, output drop, is compensated for by the regulator.
Hey Ana(dia)log, I am your German counterpart. I made a video a few month ago explaining why "audiophile fuses" are snakeoil. I explained how amplifiers power supplies and rectifying works etc. After the video was released a hifi dealer contacted me (or wrote a comment) and said like: "yes alright I understand your technical explanation, but have you yourself ever tested such a fuse, not by measuring but by listening to it?" Well I never did so he offered to send me 2 fuses for my amp and phono-amp to test it myself. So I tested it and it was very easily audible. Then in a live stream I poke about it that I was wrong, that it makes no sense from a technical perspective but you can still very easily hear it.
Pf course some of my subscribers were very angry, some even ended the subscription and some made fun of me. What did I learn from it? Always be careful what you call snakeoil. There are some things we can't explain but we can still hear it. Our ears don't have a physics phd.
„easily audible“ … but not in a blind test 👌
@@user-jp3vl5jx1j Or demonstrable in measurements
Potentially can Totaly agree with you, believe you, but have you pay attention on ratings on that fuses? Are they with markings "F", "M" or "T"? What markings if original are? So, counterpart, be Germanly precise, please, when speaking in technical terms. Please.
Honestly if someone is open minded and after trying better changes his mind, they will have all my respect and appreciation. It's difficult to change idea, especially for your viewers that didn't have the occasion to test the fuses.
@@colloidalsilverwater15ppm88 yes it was exactly the same fuse, but sonically it should not make a difference if you use a standard fuse or a solid copper cylinder because on many amps you can bull the power plug and they continue playing for 20sec because of the huge capacitors behind the rectifier.
Oh and talking about a bind test, the company selling these fuses performed a blind test at the last high end exhibition in Munich, Germany and almost everybody was able to spot the difference. (I was not present but I was told by some people that they did and that it worked)
Just a small point": we can perceive frequencies, that we can't(physically) hear.
We need to notice thet even ultra frequency is existing it may be produced by instrument at so low level that it is completly overhelmed by those which we fully perceive and which are produced in its main acoustic range charcteristic for it's material and shape. .
. In graphs of analyzers we see top sopranos represented by colors and shape that they exist but no many people look at scale - if they exist at say 40 db below say zero level compare to 5 khz (how much is in reality evel of 20kHz harmonic for hit hat? ?) Listening to original instrument it should be less noticeable than awerage noise level in room.
Even for percussion instruments the power of produced top harmonics is just small particle of those below 10kHz - add to it 10 db less hearing sensitivity and it shows that it is may be as important as mosquito fly during loud music.
Yet the majority of audiophiles have limited hearing and equipment that cannot play these frequencies, with recordings not containing these frequencies, with three foot cables than cannot produce a hearable perceived skin effect difference even by a bat. Most Audio systems still cannot create a perceivable difference in an E flat an F bass note, despite one basically being like a looser string, rounder with more oomph.
Despite everything we believe about human hearing and audiophiles having better ears than Superman mated with a bat, audiophiles and all over music lovers sit between two MDF cheap cabinets with vibrating speakers competely unlike an actual instrument trying to convey a compete band in an untreated room with average electronics and talk about chocolate midbands and velvet highs.
And due to how weak the human mind is, we will be tricked by two vibrating cones into perceiving a sound stage, instruments and performers. We are quite litteraly duped into imagining what we hear, so much is phsycoacoustic and placebo, to the point even seeing something can make us imagine it sounds a particular way, in teh early years many thought thin pure silver interconnects sounded, you guessed it, thin and detailed, and fatter OFC copper cables sounded more rounded and bass heavy, nothing to do with measured sound, it was looks, because in many cases if you put a thin cable into a massive looking cable, they heard a different sound.
There is also blind tests showing audiophiles unable to notice a coat hanger, or even a £150 Alesis budget power amp, or a chair vs a hifi rack, in system tests.
@@Mikexception There's no such thing as "ultra" frequency!
Instruments can measure GHz, that's 10^9 Hz. I have a rubidium frequency standard that is accurate one second in a billion years.
What exactly are you talking about?
@@mosfet500 Because no specialists except me (but in different technlogy) mentioned it yet, and for it is not simple I think you also would have major trouble to understand this. ..I prefer for myself not to argue with all people who have problems to go along even well established processes .
@@Mikexception First, it's not an argument, it's a debate and everyone is entitled to their views. I'm debating issues within my field of expertise and what established processes? At one time the "established" thinking was that the world is flat, that didn't make it correct. The truth is not a product of popularity!
What I find puzzling is you telling me that you prefer not to do something that you are in fact doing!
Regarding Hi res recordings and reproduction:
1. Analog systems that are specified "only" 20KHz (Main bottle neck is the speakers) are typically capable of reaching the 40Khz not flat but at - 6 dB lower due to "normal Roll Off" of 6 dB per octave. Same goes for microphones.
2. Digital "CD quality" recordings completely Block these frequencies using means of a "Brick wall filter" set to ~21Khz which greatly affect the audible frequencies in terms of phase distortion.
3. We cannot hear the presence of a constant sine wave of above 12Khz (20Khz) i.e. 30Khz. However we do hear envelope modulation of audio energy at ranges 20Khz to 40KHz (and Above) if this envelope modulates at audible frequencies (I.e. 1 Khz). An impulse of sound (Drum Stick hitting a cymbal) produces real life energy which can reach the 100KHz area. if limited to 48Khz, you get half the energy in reproduction. If limited to 21Khz you get 25% of the actual energy (Dynamics) of that sound. When a low level audible range harmonics are extended to the 20KHz 40KHz envelope band , it's presence and Definition (audio resolution) is doubled. All the above is conditioned of course to being first captured by the recordings means and reproduction chain.
4. I have a professional and even commercial experience in 1000's of old LP conversion to digital. I can tell you that most LP's contains musical information that reaches up to the 40Khz area. many have more that that. The Maximum I was able to measure reached the 60Khz area.
5. Of Course, the presence of a "HiRes" data File by itself is not a guaranty to the presence of HiRes audible information as we all know is very easy to convert low res audio files into hi res files format. I measure the HiRes Files of streaming services, mainly Tidal, and find differences between HiRes Files presented there. Some are truly hires, some are low res converted to Hires. BTW: I found that MQA format behavior (Now Abended by Tidal) is an artificially generated HiRss Content at 20Khz to 40Khx of a 44.0Khz origin music.
6. In a Subjective way of description, the Hires musical content adds a more "life like Metal" Feeling to guitar Strings, Cymbals, Brass, The Lack of that range bring the feeling of that sound more to the "Nylon Type" behavior
Regarding Specs:
Specs never tells how good is the system, Only How Bad (of some times how limited) is your system.
In the 70s, a GRUNDING FM portable device sounded great and very enjoyable comparing to it's Japanese rivals. FM live music programs sounds so good even though FM reproduction is limited to 16Khz.
There is a difference between enjoyable and faithful. The linearity of a Reproduction system is defined 1st by by the specs. I always preferred an analog amplifier with 100Khz FR. The 0.0001% distortion is not a guaranty for a faithful performance than 0.1% as it can easy being achieved by an overdone feedback loop gain which create an unpleasant musical experience. I am using my same reproduction system also as a Remastering system and there for requires the system to be accurate and enjoyable at same time so for example a tube system do not meet this requirement (At list not in my $$$ budget level) .
Regarding Cables:
1. The Affect of Cable on a system performance is depends on System component sensitivity to cable, mainly by output and load impedance sensitivity. A 4 ohm Speaker will be double more sensitive to a 8Ohm speaker.
A 1 meter cable will be 3 times better than a 3 meter cable of same type.
A tube amplifier will be 10 time sensitive to a Load (including the cables) that a transistor amplifier.
A Transistor amplifier with to High feedback loop will be more sensitive to load than a proper designed transistor amplifier.
A tube amplifier input will be ore sensitive to inter connect affect than a transistor amplifier.
A Higher sensitivity speaker will be an easier load to any amplimer comparing to a lower sensitivity speaker.
A well designed power supply and well designed to RF immunity Amplifier and other system components will be les affected by a power cables than sensitive component.
A 2 Meter Listening position will be 4 time easier for the system reproduction than a 4 meters listening position based system.
So it is a matter of SPECS and knowledge to choose the right component and to do a proper match between system components where some systems can be using a "simple" caballing and other which are more sensitive requires a much better caballing. At any case you would need to have a very high definition system and listening room inorder to be able to experience the differences.
Regarding Power:
Unless you are using a Class A amplifier, the current drawn for your speaker is translated to a current drawn from the AC power. AS if you have a 1 meter speaker cable and 10 meters of Power cable you need a very good power cable.
Regarding shielding the power cable: Similar but not the same same as shielding of the Speaker cable. Shielding the Speaker cable is a disaster in terms of capacitance load for the high frequencies. However, The Current drawn from AC power is in the 100Hz area. The Amplifier handles the high frequency demand using internal capacity storage.
Regarding low power deices (Pre amp, DACs Atc): No problem of using a shielded cable. The Shielded cable (including for Power Amp) is needed (if needed) to protect EMI sensitive audio components which mean a not best designed products or in other words: to cover a poorly designed component of the system.
In Generally it is better to have a system built from quiet and not sensitive components rather than to try fix the problem with shielding and power conditioning. Of Course, filtering the mains power input is always good to have.
Regarding Burn in:
If I Buy a new Shoe, I need to give it some time till it optimize its performance so for speakers for sure there is a period till it gets to have a stabilized performance..
If I buy A Smart phone, I do not need to burn in the device so for a DAC? I am not sure I will need a burn in time. For an analogue Transistor Amplifier? I am not usre. For A Tube Amplifier: Definitely. for a Phono Cartridge: Definitely.
In Hifi, if I set a new gear component, in most cases time the "burn in" needed is for me to get used to the new sound, regardless if the component really needs a burn in period or not.
I thank you very much for you interesting videos and items you bring for discussions.
Outstanding dissection of topic. Totally agree regarding losing dynamic because of cutting 21 KHz or 48 or 100. And other...bravo maestro
Thank you very much adding technical info to my overview! The only aspect I didn’t touch is CD digital limits (I did in other videos).
Oh boy Gwedo, you opened up The Can!
🙈
100% Guido. Totally aligned here. I already know you’re unfortunately going to get some argumentative comments calling BS, but those are people without experience or understanding. The first to cry snake oil is people who only go by specs or measurements. Both are of course are very useful and important, especially in designing gear, but only to a point. Listening is the true test.
I’ve used this quote before, but it still rings true. It goes something like, “We’re able to hear most we are able to measure, but we can’t necessarily measure everything we’re able to hear” - Herb Reichert
Thanks, Guido! Appreciate you and your vids.
Great quote!!
Herb is wrong! Just because an audio critic says something doesn't make it true. I read Jim Austin's (same magazine) assessment of cartridge loading and the guy didn't know the difference between an FFT and Bode plot, yet he was attempting to analyze graphs! He was laughable.
No one is saying not to listen with your ears but read how easily people's ears are fooled, how cognitive dissonance completely biases people.
Let's remember something, electronic engineering is electronic engineering regardless whether we are designing a missile guidance system or a DAC, the only difference is what we want the final instrument to do. Does it make sense that we make a cell phone that tells you where you're standing on the planet but we can't figure out how make an audio amp that's pleasing without mumbo jumbo? Do you have any idea what it takes for a GPS to work right? The timing alone is extremely precise.
So we can't make an amp people like the sound of? Well we can. Nelson Pass sat down a bunch of people and played different amps to them. He found the majority like harmonics so he designed his amps around that and people love them.
@@anadialog Rubbish, if we can hear it we can measure it!
@@mosfet500 You sound ridiculous. 😂🤣 I’m not even giving you the time to read past your first sentence, as you’re obviously not interested in having a discussion. Try speaking and acting like an adult instead of a child having a tantrum.
Besides that, hope you had a nice Christmas, and I wish you a Happy New Year 🔊😊🎶🎄
@@mosfet500 Woh…! Slow down there, buddy. So, it would seem that your basis for, “Herb is wrong!” is because the editor of Stereophile can’t assess cartridge loading, analyze graphs, etc. Herb and Jim are 2 different people with I’m sure different views and opinions.
Where did I say to not listen with one’s ears? In fact, I said quite the opposite. Measurements are hugely important, but if the end result doesn’t sound good, you need to try and voice the piece of gear via experience of what parts do what to the sound. I understand cognitive dissonance, but I don’t think my words were scattered nor confusing to understand.
You seem to be talking about everything but audio. I understand what you’re trying to get at, but seems the circuitous route was taken to try and make a point.
I am a huge fan of Nelson Pass and his work throughout the years, and I am very aware of how he uses harmonics in his amps to produce a more pleasing presentation.
I have to say this is an excellent and informative video, and it’s very well presented, hence I’m happy to subscribe to this channel and, as a result, unsubscribe from a one or two - possibly three - other TH-cam hifi channels which weren’t answering my many and varied hifi questions. I look forward to going through your past videos as I’m sure I’ll pick up a lot of good tips and general information/knowledge. Nice one😊
Welcome aboard and…thank you so much for your trust!
Happy New Year to you, hope its better than the last one.
Hey Guido, another great video and I totally agree. You allways have to listen to devices and a certain brand is no garantie that your ears like it. What sounds good to ones ears is good and burning in is the most important factor. Had this experience with a phono preamp. Forgot to turn it off over night when it was new and after listening again, it sounded better than before. Same with old tapedecks. The components do get revitalized when getting used again.
That intro reminds me of something I read about, some years ago. There were people selling syringes of some concoction which you were suppose to squirt into your computer, to eliminate "viruses."
Thanks for your opinion.
Alpha Audio is a Dutch chanel that messures cable with the noise and shows the noise that going out of the cable. Also with dacs and switches.
As someone who mainly restores cassette decks, I can only confirm that a 'burn-in' phase is unavoidable for the device. This applies to both the mechanical and the electronic components. The temperature development alone in a closed device changes the interaction of all components considerably. The same naturally applies to new devices.
Definetly true. I restore decks, too and know those facts.
Good talk on debated issues. I don’t worry much about any of these issues with a couple of exceptions - I like to warm my equipment up for an hour before any serious listening.
I also make sure all wires and components are in good condition, connections are snug and wires aren’t wrapped in loops thus creating resistors.
Enjoy the music.
Happy new year!
If you design an audio amplifier with a frequency response up to 20kHz, then effectively you create a “filter” that rolls of the frequencies above 20kHz. Depending on your design, the frequency response curve will be flat up to 20kHz (within the specified tolerance). However also depending on your design, there will be more or less phase shifts in the audible spectrum around that filter point. If you design an audio that amplifier put to let’s say 40 or 60 kHz, then these phase shifts will also start at a higher (inaudible) frequency. These phase shifts are audible since our perception of a stereo image are bases on phase shifts that we hear when the sound waves enter our ears.
Not necessarily. We don't usually design to a specific frequency, we design to a a flat Bode plot within a frequency band perhaps but frequencies outside that band might drop off but are still quite level.
I am still very happy with my SKW speaker cables you recommended a few years ago. I have tried several other more expensive cables since and I have returned them all.
When I was younger in my teens and early twenties I would purchase components based on specifications. I learned very quickly after selling one of the best sounding systems I ever owned that I should just trust my ears. Now in my mid sixties and with failing hearing I’ve found that very good quality hearing aids can improve my listening experience. So now I can again only trust what I can hear.
One of the biggest improvements to my system was a Puritan grounding cable (connected to my Puritan power conditioner). This immediately lifted a veil of noise from my whole system. And for just around 150 Euro.
I totally understand your points, Guido, but I am a believer of the power of suggestion. First, the measuring equipment we have today is far more sensitive than our ears can ever hope to be. That means that, if you hear a difference, say, between one audio component and another, it should be easily measurable. Countless tests have proven that some upgrades, such as more expensive power cable replacements, or audiophile fuses, or fancy oxygen free speaker wires didn’t bring up any significant differences when their performance was measured with precision equipment. Why can you, me and most humans hear it, then? Well, simply because we want to. Our brains are complicated machines and suggestion can vary its perception quite wildly. If you paid $1000 for a speaker cable you are obviously expecting it to sound better than the $10 crappy one that you previously had. Boom, the difference is clearly audible, not because it’s there, but because you’re making it up. And that’s totally normal, inherently linked to the way we think. Even I caught myself investing in more expensive cables, for instance, or better fuses, knowing it wouldn’t make a difference, but I still heard it anyway.
To prove my point, though, I did some blind tests in my gear (which eliminate any of the biased opinions caused by suggestion) and, sure enough, all the differences were gone. Try doing some for yourself too, you may be surprised…
Anyway, thanks for the great video, as always, and happy holidays!
First of all, thanks for the nice comment. I don’t agree but at least you are polite and nice and I respect that and I will also listen to you and your opinions much more than other rude people here. Apart from that, I am sure that you did not hear differences in the end. I never said that it will happen automatically and surely. Some systems are just not influenced by these tweaks. It happened to me as well. High price bias? For sure but I truly think I am rather immune, at least after this amazing result: th-cam.com/video/IY800_YWrkE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UE9FuNWskbW607n4
I did ABX tests, of course, what I claim is the result of my impressions but also some tests. The fact is that, placebo, as explained in another comment, is in the middle ground, the gray area and it can occur. But when something is patently better or worse I think that in most cases it really is.
@@anadialog You think you are immune? Hilarious. It's not about "placebo effects." It's about how we hear sound, process sound and set it to memory. Bias effects (not the same thing as a placebo) is just one element. The important aspect of this is that a human can't process everything they hear. And as such we HAVE to steer our focus when listening. And that steered focus sets that listening experience and filters it. And that is why you can't successfully compare an aural memory to a live feed. The memory is limited to the steered focus that was imparted on it. No one is immune to that. It is a fundamental limitation of human aural perception. If you think you are immune to steering your focus try listening to two pieces of music simultaneously and tell how that goes. Heck, try listening to two people talking to you at the same time and tell us how it goes.
Of course we are prone to bias: have you ever noticed how we perceive the car to drive better after service, although it was just, say, an oil change? And it drives even better if they washed it! Still, I cannot agree that this bias stretches to price: for instance, I tried Kimber speaker cables from the PR, through VS, to TC. Every single time I go back to the cheapest one, PR. It just sounds most pleasing to my ears (and this was repeated with different speakers).
Very good video - agree with all. High Freq is about feeling. might not hear but can feel
Congratulations on another very informative video…..and original! You must be the only one in your area who’s talking about snake oil! Lol😂
Hi Guido, congratulations for your excellent channel !
It is one of the best in audio hifi domain.
I saw some speaker cables have ferrite rings on the ends.Is it making any difference or is it another snake oil ?
My respect
Thanks! They are good if you have interference otherwise better not to use them because they increase inductance.
Something that I have been verifying with my ears over the past few weeks is that my speakers sound so much better directly connected to my terminals with bare wire instead of the banana plugs I had. Really big difference IMO with my smsl sa300 connected to ADS L780 on my desktop.
I will be doing this on my L980s in the big room soon.
I know that GR Danny says that tube connections are the best so bare wire has to be right there also with surface area connection but I was losing alot of connection with banana plugs not compressing and touching the whole sidewall inside of the terminal.
Anyway, that's my "snake-oil" experience....
Thanks for sharing that! Every bit helps in understanding!
Why does my Sugden Class A amp need about an hour of warm-up before it does sound right? Running cold it does have less body thinner highs. Any techninal explanation?
It's because the electronic components (transistors) need settling time before they are working properly my Denon poa6600a have the same issue they will sound a bit rough mostly in the low end when they are cold
Kind of stupid but you can compare it with an old car wich needs shoke when cold and needs to warm up before running smoothly
Class A is the purest for overall sound, but it wastes a LOT of energy as heat
because the output devices are fully "on" all the time.
And because of that, the whole amplifier has to warm up before it reaches thermal stability,
which takes at least an hour. Some may need more time than that.
The alternative is leaving it on 24/7, which you will notice on your energy bill.
A typical solid-state class A/B amplifier, on the other hand, reaches thermal stability in a matter of a few minutes.
Sometimes bottlenecks aren't that bad. Some or many "hi-res" files have a very high level of ultrasonic noise (it's not music) that some tweeters try to reproduce (resonances). I upgrade these files to CD-A quality.
Peter Qvortrup is the ultimate advocate of listening to the differences that even top quality components make in Audio Note equippment. They choose components that contribute the best combination of qualities to the sound. That is what makes Audionote a compelling proposition.
Audio Note, 7 figure systems that give you 4 figure sound quality. Great example
How much I liked this video!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Hi Guido, There are some really worthwhile points you have made in this video.
1. Sub frequencies I would argue are even more important than high frequency.
In my system, as you know, I have Wilson Alexia loudspeakers. I also have a Wilson Watchdog subwoofer. I don't necessarily use the subwoofer to lower the frequency response of my main speakers a comfortably produced bass down to 20 Hz, but I used the subwoofer to correct room modes in sub frequencies, which are usually the area, we have the biggest problems in most listening rooms.
I agree with you that extending the frequency range of our audio equipment by using super tweeters and subwoofers does enhance the audible range of our hearing.
2. Agree with you in relation to specifications of equipment it's funny that my Vitus monoblock amplifiers state in their specs their rated power output is and I quote "more than enough."😂
I love this because essentially it's just taking the piss out of specifications.They mean nothing in my opinion as you rightly say it's all about how it sounds and how a particular piece of equipment sinks in your audio.
3. I know my friend you've done a lot of work on cables as have I. You make great points about insulation dielectric properties it really is super important in a good cable. Obviously, conductor materials are equally as important as connectors, where resistance is often at its highest. I also agree with you around the pricing of cables. Some of them are absolutely ludicrous, and there should be a rough equation around spending 10 to 15% of your entire Hi-Fi budget on cabling. I find that's a pretty good rule of thumb, but of course, there are always exceptions.
4. Cleaning up power is super important I use a PLiXiR3000 balanced power conditioner for all of my components and I have 3 20amp dedicated lines 2 for my monoblock amplifiers with the third dedicated line that runs the power conditioner very important stuff in high-end audio equipment. I always say the higher the resolution, the more you have to pay attention to the 1 and 2%ers.
5. Burn in is definitely something, especially in anything mechanical like subwoofers or speakers. The differences are very audible. In solid state electrical components not as obvious, but still there is an overall improvement with time.
I've essentially agreed with everything you've said in this video Guido but just expanded a little bit in relation to my 35 years experience in this crazy hobby. Like you, I wish some of this stuff didn't make as much of a difference as I've heard it make. It would make life and my bank balance look a whole lot better.🎧👍👌
Thanks! Considering your technical background your feedback is even more precious!
@anadialog Great video, mate. I just call out good ones when I see them.👍😁👌
The most insane, illogical, and unsupported by theory, cable "snake oil," is AC power cords that cost $700 or more. I've SEEN these on Ebay! Their craziness rivals that of those boxes full of dirt that are connected to amplifier grounds.
On the 1st point: A few months ago, I played with equalization of headphones. In the first attempt on HiFiMan 400SE, I eq-ed a common notch at 17.5kHz - i.e., I added a 20dB resonating peak. I do not hear tones (in the same headphones) above 15kHz. Nevertheless, I've perceived that something was wrong, there was a "pressure" on my ears. Then I re-wrote my matlab script and ignored the notch. The "pressure" was gone, and it sounded "correctly".
No, specs are lies in 99.999% The entire "audioscience" is a BS pseudoscience, and existing "standard" audio measurements are primitive stone-age relics.
BTW, a null in frequency response does not mean that this frequency does not pass. It means that if you feed this tone to the device, the level will eventually (asymptotically) decline to zero. But transients (which music consists of) surely pass.
I hear the difference between a Redbook and 96.24 , it's like bringing the background up front! The microphones back then "gradually" drop off after 20k, it doesn't "abruptly" cut it off like Redbook!
Yes, I said that in the video ;-)
I’ve been into Audio components since the 90s, don’t call myself an audiophile though as I consider that an illness. I would say that the only difference I’ve heard with cables RCA and speakers is Pure Silver core vs Copper. Absolutely no denying the fact they sound different because one ‘slightly’ distorts the signal and the other is the clearer path. There is no cable better than another only personal preference. I am a silver lover
Yes, there are frequencies beyond what people can audibly detect (even if they might be able to feel the vibrations of subsonic sounds). There are also frequencies beyond the range of studio recording equipment (sometimes by design) -- or frequencies that are limited or compressed so that (for example) they won't cause the cartridge stylus to jump out of the groove on a pressed LP. (There was a Beatles track that had to be withdrawn and remastered for that reason -- but I forget which song it was.) Many of my vintage '60s and '70s amps have high-pass and low-pass filter switches on them, limiting frequencies above or below certain levels that might be more than your ears or your equipment or your room can comfortably handle at certain volumes, depending on the recorded music you're listening to (acoustic 1950s Blue Note jazz? industrial metal? EDM? a string quartet? a Mahler symphony?). The question is: With your reproduction gear, in the sonic environment of your listening room, do you like the way the music sounds?
even if burn in is true, it does not necessarily mean an improvement occurs. Sound could actually get worse, right? i'm guessing any method that tries to prove that burn-in is probably flawed. sometimes people tend to underestimate the placebo effect.
Yes it’s funny how burn in always seems to be an improvement, never worse and then after a magic number of hours changes suddenly stop rather than continuing and ending up with an ever changing or degrading sound.
They all deny placebo because their golden ears are above such human fallibility.
Obviously, burn in and warming up is true and an obvious fact. When I turn my TV on, what always happens with this one channel is that the picture continually breaks up and then in a half hour it is fine. Obviously the flawed reception becoming perfect reception is due to circuitry within the tv set warming up and doing a better job. Electrons make more and better pathways through the metal over a long time of use. Don't pretend to understand electrons. There are more electrons in a few drops of water than the number of grains of sand on all the world's beaches combined.
@ I think burnin refers to many unspecified hours-not minutes. I’ve yet to see anything but unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence proving it is effective. Yet another example of the Placebo Effect...
Actually it should always bring better sound because the components are working at their best
@ you make that statement as if it's a fact without offering any evidence
Now the points on specs are spot on. Myself, when getting bang for buck I do guiltily strive to find gear with for example the latest DAC, but just because a company uses the latest and greatest hot chips, doesn't automatic cally equate to a better listening experience. Proof in the pudding, compare say a Chord DAC to a Topping DX7 pro for example. The Chord may have an older chipset but sounds just as good if not better than the Topping. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Topping, in fact it's an extraordinary DAC at it's price point, but obviously implementation is important and ultimately let your ears do the judging before diving on the specs, couldn't agree more with Anadialog on this excellent point.
What is really important is doing good comparisons. If you are doing them sighted with substantial time between samples (more than 2-5 seconds) *That's* the problem right there.
Totally agree with your video! 👍🏻
Very Rational Video... Thanks
Well, I don’t know about everyone else’s systems, and hearing quality, but I’ve got set of $545, Analysis Plus loudspeaker cables, and they sound fantastic. I also have some 12ft lamp cord that sounds (with sincere apologies to AP) just as excellent, at least as far as my ears can register.🌹✨
Brave, to be honest. I bought a PS Audio Power Plant (to protect my vintage equipment from high voltage (250v+ often in summer)) and i didn't expect it to sound better. It really did.. So I built my own power cables (thanks for the videos) and that did more than I expected too.. For cables. If your system can't resolve the subtleties these cables bring, there's no point. Perhaps it depends on age of equipment, but interconnects? Surely. Good UTP (network cables) work fine for speakers up to 750 euros a pair in my experience. Again, from your videos i decided to try speaker cable. Oh right, that did a lot...
Since then (and lots of experimentation on lots of Systems with lots of people), i try first.
Then again, if anyone doesn't believe it, don't do any of it. It WILL save you money.
Well sort of, because now your equipment has to compensate for sub par elements in the signal chain, meaning you'll probably need to buy more expensive speakers and amps.
I still see it happen regularly..
Thanks for your input and for your channel support!
I switched to powercable without shielding❤🎉
Bravo!👏🏻
I didn't know you were italian! Do you live in Italy or abroad?
Firenze!
I enjoyed your "sprezzatura" in this video.
Ahah!😆
Great video, thanks I agree! 👌
Anyone who denies that hi fi equipment should be warmed up before a listening session is the kind of person that believes foreplay is a waste of time
This video is snake oil! Audiofools must have some other physics yet to be discovered and seem to be the only group that think we don't know all the electrical properties of cable, and exactly how long do you think capacitors need to charge up (23rd minute of the video)? I agree that mechanical systems (speakers and such) need to be broken in, and in my experience can take quite a while, but electronic components...no. I prefer vinyl and tube amps, but that's because of the harmonic distortions present not due to some magical properties. I read a paper recently which talked about harmonic distortions (even order) matching your hearing "system", so perhaps hearing is the place to examine, not electronics.
Maybe you are right but the fact is that a growing number of technicians and engineers are claiming this! Famous and less famous ones.
@@anadialog Real audio engineers? Ones that aren't selling something? Can you name names?
Hi Guido, I agree audio cables should be good quality & inexpensive but you failed to mention equipment connectors. I just took delivery of used equipment & job one was cleaning the connectors (RCA & speaker) with cotton buds & pure alcohol. The junk on the cotton buds was horrible. As an EE I disagree on expensive power cables but, for safety, I recommend a whole house surge protector. I use ferrite common-mode chokes on AC & all DC power leads (especially switch-mode power supplies) to reduce RF noise entering your system. HTH. Cheers!
I did mention connectors of all types, not hygiene but I agree on that! Contacts need to be clean!
Almost every snake oil part has increased my satisfaction every time.
I’ve noticed some snake oil items that I’ve removed because it was a negative effect. Like an EQ component was adding audible distortion.
I’ve tried high end copper, silver plated copper and silver. I’ve found my nirvana with silver. I currently use my Mac Mini digital equalizer which has more band adjustments.
There could be a placebo effect too! But it's not only a matter of measurable performance, sometimes the feel of having something cool and special is enjoyable too
@
I trust my ears
@@tubefreeeasy If you trust your ears you would do blind comparisons with ears only.
Tube and analog distortion is generally more tolerable than digital and solid state distortion.
That’s for sure. I did an entire video on the topic: th-cam.com/video/aTYc7vZuM-c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_NvryhCXmQWtWv26
As a bona-fide audiophile, I wouldn't think of using pre-mixed snake oil. I raise my own audiophile-grade snakes in the back yard and use only the best ones to make oil. What a difference!
Beware of the recent increase in snake rustling
Actually, the left subwoofer seems to have developed a rattling noise that is driving me nuts!
@@6StringPassion. Should have opted for pure virgin python oil - very smooth and powerful results
@@jondu-sud274 Point taken. I wonder if that would eliminate the rattling in the subwoofer...
Hi Guido.
Great video. Since we have talked about this for years, I'm not gonna write a novel about how much we agree - You already know. A couple of things I would like to point out though is that microphones aren't so much a limit as you seem to think. Think of measuring gear where the microphones go both very high and very low. Mic's are capable of more than most people think after being mislead by specs etc. And for instance some records (especially classical music) do contain frequencies up to 35 khz which can be played back with good pick ups and easily measured. We do have gear which can record and playback high frequencies. The 20-20khz phrase was pulled out of some idiot's ass back in the day to make things simpler and easier on themselves, but it has never had a place in the real world. And when it comes to cables I guess we have to live with the ridicule from Flat Earther's till we get measuring gear as precise and sensitive as our ears, because the difference is there and of course it will become possible to measure it at some point.
Remember that people thought that black holes were silent till NASA proved them wrong?
I hope you have had a really nice Christmas, and will have a Happy New Year.
All the best from Denmark.
Good answer I totally agree.
We can’t see air yet we breathe it
We can’t see radio waves yet we can hear the radio
Well, in the last years I have really dived in microphones. Very few famous mics including famous models by AKG, Neumann or Telefunken rarely reached 20khz. As I said, the curve continues and more frequencies are certainly picked up but distorted. I am afraid that 35khz stuff is noise. But I may be wrong also because a lot of skilled techs modified mics for a better response. Yes, now we do have mics with extended frequency range but as you said they are used in measurement processes and scientific applications. Very rarely in music. Plus, DAWs (mix and mastering) will reduce resolution and sampling info when processing, converting and filtering.
@@anadialog Hi Mate. You should look into overtones from classical instruments, and the measurements on some of the records. You will realize that the high frequencies in some cases has very little to do with distortion.
Mic's sometimes get modified, but in other cases people have a tendency to get blinded by specs, and forget that the 20-20k thing in the specs only show the linearity within reason in relation to the established set of rules for specifications. Fluctuations of the curve further up are rarely mentioned. But the more that get picked up, the better (though not linear) the result will become.
You know the importance of high frequencies, and have looked quite bit into the research about it. Look a bit further and you'll find the research that confirms this, and what our ears tell us
Stay awesome my friend.
@@anadialog Ps. The speed of cutting heads and cartridges sometimes get mentioned as argument for records not being able to carry true high frequencies. But only by those who forget about the carrier tones on quadraphonic records.
@@anadialog Any proper test microphone goes from 20 hz to 20 Khz flat to beyond 0.1 db after proper calibration. They are not used for their sound quality but for their accuracy.
Agree with most of the points. What is missing to me is the power of suggestion. Is not enough, in my opinion, saying: "I ear differences, hence there are differences". I've experimented that and, even in this field, there are tons of studies. Buone feste Guido!
And in fact, since it can’t by definition be objective since I don’t have scientific proof, I clearly stated IN MY OPINION. I would never claim I hear stuff then it’s real. After all I am a scientist in my real job.
In my opinion, there are enough evidences in hifi world, scientific and not, to start beliving that, for example, we can not tell apart a well engineered budget amp than a very expensive one (in most of the cases). Same history with cables and so on. Again, my opinion based on my personal experience and I would say my common sense (not saying I'm the only one with common sense). One last consideration: stating that an amp, cable, dac, etc. improves soundstage, details, etc. and then no mesurements, no explaination why, no blinding tests results to show... come on! Any way, peolple are free to belive stuff but it looks to me that many of us are not honest with ourself first and then irrational decisions are evident when the time pass by and we get into constant contraddictions (as I still do).
Ever since digital and SINAD measurements, there is a distinct portion of audiophiles who cannot enjoy music unless they can 'understand' why it works. They are far more concerned with 'why' something works rather than 'if' it works. They are also the kind who insist something cannot perform in the way that others have directly experienced because of numbers they've read on a spec page. They will tell you that you couldn't have had your experience despite their having never shared that experience. These people tend to never find a truly musical sound because they are stuck in the idea that music is 'science' and nothing more. They deserve that situation because of their know-everything arrogance, combined with total ignorance. ASR site is filled with such clowns.
Well said! There are many of these people.and they re-define how possibly annoying someone can be. Like something is wrong with everyone except them. Like they are seeing right through things. In reality it is more like they are looking at a mirror than seein through things. Their thinking and perception has problems...and they are Great.
That’s a load of crap. You can not possibly enjoy your system or music in general nearly as much as I do.
@leeandrewclarke let me just run a couple of comparable examples by you and see if you can spot anything amiss.
If at work I changed fuses in a control panel with gold plated ones and claimed the variable speed drive they were protecting seemed to be performing better and now the motor was now running smoother do you think I’d still be in a job?
If you changed the power cord on your TV would you expect to see a better quality picture on the screen? Or how about changing the power cord on a printer? Should we expect better print quality?
If you think the above would be silly then why on earth would we believe or even expect such nonsense to apply to hifi equipment? Do you think recording studios have gold plated fuses and fancy power cords? If you don’t think my examples are silly then that is worrying.
Do you really think objectivists have never heard an expensive stereo? Do you think they have never tried fancy cables? You actually think they lack experience? Are you really that arrogant to believe that subjective audiophiles are completely immune to placebo and biasing? Yes they hear things but that doesn’t make it real.
Objectivists have carried out more strict and thorough testing than the likes of you. Both measuring AND listening.
Next time I want to know how much voltage is on a control circuit at work I should just switch it on and see how it works rather than measure the voltage with a meter should I? Get real this 2024 science and engineering knows far more than an aging audiophile with failing hearing with no technical ability at all.
Do you really think we can send probes into space, have the internet, self driving cars, GPS, facial recognition and so on and not be able fully understand how to design build and test an amplifier or a DAC?
Where is the common sense?
@@michaelb9664 You prove my point in your reply. I merely expressed my opinion, which others were free to agree, disagree or feel neutral about. Yet you felt the need to directly counter me, jump on my opinion and deny my experience, just like every objectivist. I honestly believe a principal reason for this is the need of people like you to smugly pretend you 'understand' things better than others, just like some in politics. You just can't let someone else's opinion stand.
And your examples are fallacious and inappropriate. Motors and printers are physical devices. I wouldn't expect the motor on a CD transport to spin with an additional degree of precision just because I used a power cable with a higher quality conductor within. I would expect the movement of electrons to be less chaotic and hope that such a factor would improve the electrical circuit of a Dac or amp and hear an improvement. Certainly a difference in sound, although not always better. But if there is any difference at all then the potential for things to improve is there, even if it requires experimentation with different power cords and the kind of open mind that objectivists simply don't have.
As for TV pictures improving due to an improved fuse or power cord, I've never experimented so will reserve judgement on those claiming to have enjoyed a better picture. I refuse to define the experiences of other people when they are experiences I have not shared. I don't have that need to lecture others, without the COMMON experience, that objectivists like you enjoy doing.
I used to sell hi-end Hi-Fi and, over the years, I did blind tests to prove to clients the following;
1) That buying a CD transport and a cheaper Dac was better than spending all the money on a Dac and hooking up to the noisy and jittering output of a CD player.
2) That cables make a difference. in fact, I recorded the difference on a tape loop and lent the tape to clients to listen to at leisure in their home, to be fully appreciative before buying.
3) That controlling vibrations from motors with proper equipment supports will change the sound quality and normally for the best, depending on the tonal imbalance of a system.
What blows my mind about objectivists is how selective they are in what they believe can make a difference. Most objectivists will listen to a high-end amp, rightfully decide it is better ( because it is due to higher-spec circuits ) and never consider whether they are merely buying, amongst other things, a selection of higher-grade capacitors. The fact that the inferior amp might have caps with exactly the same electrical values as the one they chose to be 'superior' will be something they chose to forget or disregard when they chose that to be the 'superior' amp. They know the superior amp costs more and they will accept their money goes into 'superior' caps even though that superiority is usually only heard, not measured.
You do know there was once a time when objectivists believed all amps, properly designed, HAD to sound the same? At the same time that such objectivists usually have no problem spending big on a superior circuit path in an amp which may be only six inches long, they then refuse to spend on quality speaker cable, which is electrically just a continuation of that same circuit path. That's like bothering to spend hugely paving twenty yards of a mile-long road to smooth perfection while leaving the rest a pot-holed mess.
I have heard my system evolve through the choices I made. You weren't even there. So I'll thank you to literally mind your own business. Objectivists like you belong to the self-proclaimed pantheon of people who, throughout all history, made the mistake of believing mankind had perfected an understanding of something and that nothing that existed outside of that understanding. They told us the Earth was flat, was the center of the universe and that microbes could not exist, let alone the sub-atomic. Believe me, most of what we think we know now will be revised in time, including aspects which relate to Hi-Fi.
Me? I'll trust my ears to tell me what 'works' because they are the only portal to 'reality' I have. To let someone else tell me what sounds good makes about as much sense as letting someone else telling me what a beautiful woman looks like.
I trust me and I buy to please me, not a spec sheet or that weird objectivist stance that, despite the fact I can't listen to my system for more than an hour because it sounds inhumanly cold, I can at least find satisfaction in telling other objectivists just how much better my system 'measures.'
Now, I've answered the unwanted and unrequested challenge you've thrown my way. I hope you've seen a different way of looking and things and maybe considered opening up your mind but, if you haven't I respect that choice. But will you please stop pretending you and people like you have a perfect understanding of even the technical apsects of music-making, let alone how that could relate to the entirely subjective experience of individual musical preference. We are people, not machines, and so measurements can never define the full picture of what we like.
Please allow others to have the human experience of deciding what works for them in life. It's people like you who hold back the advance of improvements ( which are usually technically understood years later ) in Hi-Fi by persuading others not to even listen, thus preventing those improvements from reaching more people.
Now, I suspect you will continue trying to 'win' because you clearly need to police other people's opinions. So go ahead and write back explaining how wrong I am. I won't bother reading it. You just cosy up to your measurements and give my love to the acolytes on ASR.
@leeandrewclarke I’m not going to try winning anything mate. You’re picking and choosing where the laws of physics apply and comparing those backing audio science and engineering with flat Earthers is absurd. It is not me with a closed mind. I’ve been there and got the T-shirt.
I was an audiophile in my teenage years 30 years ago and I used to read all the mags. I was getting hifi separates for Xmas as a teenager and I was polishing my mains fuses and saving up for fancy cables and swapping them out and I marvelled at all kinds of things I thought I could hear. Then I gained electrical and electronic qualifications and ended up in an industrial electrical career. I’ve read up on how to conduct proper listening tests removing all bias. I’ve got a good idea on what is plausible and what is stuff out of fantasy land.
I’ve since performed my own controlled as well as I possibly can blind tests and I can’t hear diddly squat from not just one cable to another but also one DAC to another. I can’t even tell my amplifiers apart from one another. Speakers and headphones for sure, cartridges and styli yeah! Cables, DACs, good amplifiers operating within their limits, power cords, fuses NO! Just no. My hearing has been tested and my gear is suitably ‘resolving’ before that’s thrown out there.
The problem I have with subjectivism is that it is only anecdotal opinion that is touted as fact and when science proves what can and cannot have an audible effect the subjectivists can’t admit that they are fallible and can fall for human influences that affect what we hear. I’m not saying you can’t hear what you hear. I’m saying in a controlled test you wouldn’t pick out what you think you can and it’s a very enlightening experience when you do perform such tests. I’m saying the guy in this video is denying physics when he says a 3ft mains cord is the first electrical part of the chain and can have audible effects. The only effect it has is on the mind. This is proven by science and engineering.
You wouldn’t put a fancy mains cord on a kettle and expect your tea and coffee to taste better would you? By the way audio equipment is a physical device just like a printer, or a motor, or a computer or a TV is.
Have a great holiday season and play some tunes!
Merry Christmas..Tubes are magical like angels signing with silver dbs strings in mist ov dam😊
Tube box s2 with telefunken is not suggested it heats smelburn
Cable burn in,cryo "treatment" and "audiophile" fuses could be included in this video.Oh,cable risers too.There's alot of questionable stuff being banded about.
Those things all work. People who do not understand physics jump to the conclusion that they are snake oil.Joining the herd of other people who audio signal transmission is just too complex for. Cable risers get the cable off the static firld of carpets. Have you ever rubbed your feet on old carpeting and gotten a tiny spark shock when you turn on a light switch. Cyrogenic freezing permanently changes the molecular structure of the metal and could be beneficial. Change almost anything and there will be a change in something else; in this instance sound quality. In ancient times when there was a bad storm, people were paranoid that the Gods were punishing them. The same mentality persists today with some. I don't get suspicous unless there's real reason to get that way. Also I wouldn't throw accusations unless I had expertise enough to know what I was talking about.
@sidesup8286 Well,those are the advertised "benefits",but evidence is in short supply.People tend to use risers irrespective of the floor,whether carpeted or not.Cryo freezing only works if the conductor stays cold.Once returned back to room temperature it goes back to it's original state. People can believe in whatever they wish, I have no problem with that at all,but it does leave the door open for some questionable methods which can be exploitative. I have my doubts about some of it's efficacy,even after trying out a couple of them ie raising the cable temporarily and using a posh fuse.
I have had about a dozen different stereo combinations in the last 15 years and raising cables off the carpet made an easily heard improvement every time, with so many different components. Cyro freezing I have never tried, but I seriously doubt if the cables would still have to be cold. If you put your hand in minus 400 degrees for long enough; what would happen would be a permanent change. Same with metals. I do tweaks myself with fuses and I can easily hear an improvement there. I see no snake oil in any of those things you mentioned. Now some of the pricing; that is a different story. I remember back to 1982, when the best preamps on the planet cost around $1,000. Not 20 times that. Epicure 3.0 speakers from around then still would beat most $2,000 speakers of today. So might the Sony SS-M 7 speakers.
@@sidesup8286 People who do not understand the physics? Right....please tell us what physics we are failing to understand when it comes to these tweaks. And do tell us about these alleged "complexities" of the transmission of an audio signal. And audio signal is really pretty simple. You have amplitude and time/frequency and both are quite finite and within a pretty small bandwidth.
@@sidesup8286 Easily heard until put to a blind test. Like all the other snake oil tweaks. And did you seriously make an analogy between cryogenics of metals and freezing a human hand? Amazing....Please don't talk about understanding physics if you are going to make such a ridiculous comparison.
The spec sheet would tell the whole story, but only if it would be complete (impossible) and all the measures done by third party with standardized procedure and equipment (very difficult). If differences can be heard they could be measured, but given all the nuances there can be in audio equipment the spec "sheet" could be a book of 200 pages.
Other than that I don't have a ton of experience, especially with high end stuff, but despite that I have felt quite a big jump both changing cables and with burn in. For those that negate the effect asking why the change is always positive, I'll answer: it doesn't. I was deluded by a silver cable, and I have a pair of earphones (planar magnetic) that I preferred how they were before the burn in.
@@karellen00
My improvement from copper to silver plated copper was more transparency. My difference between silver plated copper and pure silver was precise imagery, smoothness and no shrill in the highs.
This sound was proven when I added a silver power cord in my power speaker. I had no negative effects that I had before. There was no shred of doubt upon the improvement it made.
Hi, I have a microphone cable ( cordial 234- red, blue and the shield) with neutrik rca conectors. I know 2 methods to solder it (well just one :) :
1 both red and blue to hot+ and the shield to cold-
2 one from your videos : red to hot+ and blue to cold- with the shield together only at one end. ( I don t know if this method is better than the first point and i want to know this).
Please send me a message when you have time, happy holidays! 🙏
Excellent!!!
Back when I was 15 + everything was 20 to 22 Khz and 8 / 16 Ohm and higher, 4 Ohm and lower was very hard to find, only in the East where almost nobody had access to it, and it wasn't cheap either I remember my first dual with 2 speakers and my 2nd was a Marants tower with radio, tape and record player with 4 speakers on a chrome base with 5 feet lol;l
You can judge speakers on their construction and especially the placement of the 3-way system drivers, but that is not the right taste of sound for everyone, e.g. heavy metal or classical music
the best compenent in your audio stereo system are your ears
I frooze a CD for a day or 2 and I got better sound from it and my favourite thing to do is to use the Densen De Magic CD (and Nordost's CD) and DVD (for multichannel).
Jesus Christ
Snake Oil is the goo that lubricates the gears of my audiophile enthusiasm!!!
💦⚙️⚙️⚙️ 😀
I think false Snake Oil claims are easy to validate or invalidate by simply listening to different systems. What I find people not discussing enough or clearly enough, IMHO, is where the line of diminishing returns stands and can a system benefit from an upgrade taking into account the weakest link in the chain (it can be a great weakest link).
Each element of a HIfi system will have its own line, and things change dramatically between types of employed technology. For example GanFET, when done correctly, appear to be much better that traditional mosfets (except for VFET IMO). That technology can compete with extreme high-end solid state amps at a fraction of the price.
Though it would support your less "real physics" arguments than my more scientific ones, there's a paper written quite a while ago, 1961 I think, that you may find interesting (and incidentally, may also inadvertently suggest why more women should do the listening tests rather than men) - it's available on line, " Sineward, Distortion in High Fidelity Amplifiers " by John W Campbell Jr. He talks about how ears hear, and that measurements (of valve amplifiers in his case) do not properly explain how sound is perceived, and in particular how important phase shift is in hearing. I suppose you could extrapolate the same viewpoints to any point in the hifi reproduction chain. I think the paper also indicates why valve based single ended amps (SET) with little feedback sound so good, though the paper doesn't actually explore that. On a slightly different topic, one thing I think all reviewers should test and state is their own hearing acuity...mine is considered very good up to about 5kHz, drops off rapidly to 7KHz and then is pretty much non-existent for any higher frequencies (I'm definitely not Mr Golden Ears!): do you think it would be useful to know yours and other reviewers?
Roger Russell (who's website links to the article, states..."The example of the amplifier in the article demonstrated that an amplifier that has a bandwidth to only 20kHz does not sound as good as an amplifier that has extended bandwidth to perhaps 80kHz or more. The reason is that the ear can detect waveshape transients that require extended bandwidth even though we cannot hear sine waves beyond 20kHz" So if true, we should be ensuring cables are good to such high frequency levels which again may support your case rather than mine!
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I came across that but I will double check. I already stated my pure sine wave limit plus furnished a test here: th-cam.com/video/ZvOgZqVLYSM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3UewWF7qBw4y38R3
There was probably a lot of truth to that back in 1961. Measurements and correlations between measurements and human perception have come a long way since 1961
This all sounds plausible, pun intended.
18600 Hz🙂But I have never been to a Disco.
What's amazing is that so many people already spent some $$$$ on their HiFi systems, but decline to even try out some $$ or maybe $$$ "snake oil" items. Instead they claim that the "snake oil" item couldn't possibly have an influence on sound.
How smart is that?
ASR has alot of cult followers. Most are on a tight budget and filled with loudy spoken people hidden behind a keyboard. Anything to reduce to spending and to argue not to spend money is ideal. ASR memebers constant arguing with each other as themselves cant get it right. This just a hobby have fun & enjoy
I agree, but sometimes you have to draw a line. It doesn't matter if I even would have 100K$ worth of audio gear, I would never spend 1000$ on an audiophile Ethernet cable. But I still agree that part of the hobby is experimentation, and especially if the item is not hugely expensive you should at least try the stuff before telling your story
@ I would DEFINITELY spend 1% to improve my listening experience. Everything else would not be very sound logic, IMHO.
YMMV
@@medonk12rs Even if you are 100% sure it's snake oil? It's a digital cable, it either works or not, if the signal passes it gets redigitalized, otherwise it would stop working. Also it's network stuff, the signal is moved to a buffer where eventual packets that got lost are retransmitted. But most importantly, even if it worked, what's the point of getting a good quality cable for just the last meter if you keep the crappy one you have inside your walls?
@@medonk12rs depends on your system. if you have a revealing system cables can make a difference. how i see it many objective audiophiles are low-budget-oriented and in general not revealing. Therefore any excuse not to experient (spend money).
May work, but only if its virgin snake oil, cold pressed on a cloudless full moon night by 90 years old master of his craft. Those other el cheapo run of the mill snake oils wont do it....
how is this shown as top comment?
@lucasm.5629 Because the truth prevails😉
When I desing an amplifier, I made it so the roll off start at 50kH and at 5H. So the stereo imaging is better. Many companies advertise the same numbers but the roll off begin at 15kH and 15H. I use digital sources. And people aren't able to tell. Digital has better spec than analog sources.
14:57 You won't have a document because unless you use telephon wires for your speakers and the cheapest rca wires in the world for connection, the difference is psychological. No serious company will put data that doesn't exist. That's why I don't particularly listen to audiophile mumbo jumbo. When you pay obscene amount of money for something like cables, of course you will "hear" a difference even if there's none.
Comparing blood tests with cables is absurd. Test are done to extract the data. The results don't change because the analyst feel like it or work with a new jacket that morning .
With accurate testing yes you can absolutely say that. I desing electronic system of all kind for probably longer than many people have been alive. Psychological factor is and always have been irrelevant. Measurable and quatifiable data is all that matter.
Any components that need a burn in time period isn't good. It's defective.
There's a huge psychological factor all of this.
English isn't my language. 16:50
I did not compare blood test with cables. I said that how we analyze things, anything, for example a blood sample, or a cable, or any type of compound, can give results only based on what you ASK. Meaning that the tests we do on cables are always voltage oriented, and on specific aspects. We are not asking all the correct questions to understand their behavior.
All of this is true
Passion for Sound TH-cam channel just did a video on hearing in humans based on a scientific study
Amir and the ASR acolytes hate tubes and R2R because of the SINAD worship
Saw a TV with and without a power conditioner and the picture quality was way better on the power conditioner and seeing is believing … it was beyond dispute but if you had clean power to begin with it may not have made any difference or not
If you have the money it is worth it if you don’t spend the milk money
Elna and Alps Made in china, that is a scam difficult to detect. I truly want to buy a 450 euro potentiometer:)
I think some of the snake oil is placebo effect. If you think it's going to sound better, it is.
Placebo is overrated. Placebo is in the middle ground, in the gray field of HIfi. When something becomes much better or much worse, black and white, then it is true. When you think that it seems a little better (or worse) then you may be experiencing placebo.
Good topic................but way too long winded !
Unfortunately no matter what you say naysayers are stuck in their bubbles and will never believe anyone that has gone the extra mile and experimented with different gear etc etc. If you ask them if they have tried higher end cables etc they will divert the conversation most of the time.
this is a very common trait of Objective audiophiles who only chase the distortion numbers. Have you noticed most if not all youtube objective reviewers never express how a speaker or component sounds like? rather their subjective view is it has a dip in the mid etc? does believe not acoustic panels are required because Dr Toole said so. only need to listen to one speaker to evaluate how a speaker is.
Ever noticed how subjective only audiophiles never conduct any blind listening tests and refuse to accept they are human like everyone else and as a result are very heavily affected by bias and placebo?
Pick out your special cables in a blind listening test repeatedly and prove objectivists and engineers wrong. If what you hear is real it should be very easy to do. You think you hear these differences in cables? Prove it. Explain why a null tester doesn’t highlight differences in the signal if differences are there. Do you even know what a null tester is?
Magic and pixie dust isn’t how electricity works.
I’ve tried them. They are snake oil
@@scottwheeler2679 if you say so 😂
Don’t let that reality get in the way of your narrative. Keep on telling the world and yourself that folks like me don’t really exist and nobody who thinks your cables aren’t magic have ever ever listened to an actual stereo in their lives.
A person slowly gets used to a new, maybe a different sound when buying a new hi-fi component... and this is the so-called burn in time.
Agree. That's something specific for humans, but surely not right.
That's very true, and manufacturers play a lot with that sometimes asking you to run the component for 100 or more hours. But sometimes there's undoubtedly a certain difference. At least for mechanical equipment, like headphones or speakers that have stuff that flexes and that need time to break in. I'm not 100% sure for electronics and especially cables where I can't imagine what it would change, but having not tried I can't even say it's snake oil. Oh, tubes excluded: sometimes especially new old stuff need some time to get rid of oxidation and stuff like that.
What changes the most in cables is the insulation, which will always degrade the sound. Burn-in of the dielectrics always helps sonics.
@@anadialog Partly agreed. Not the main issue. Just 4th on the scale...or 10th. Sorry, Guido, you are worrying too much of the wiring. Protocols are the main importance.
It doesn’t change anything. You can’t train electrons. They just keep acting like electrons. Go figure
I hope it’s not related to baby oil 😂😅🤣
You are wrong about cables too and I make the same offer about putting it to a DBT.
From my experience speakers that have an ultrasonic high frequency responce can often sound awefull bad , particularly when excited with a C.D. . Some one once said "what you can't hear affects what you can hear " I'd agree , It makes what you can hear sound awefull BAD . Supersonics are for the Bat's and your Dog . Music is Harmonious , and all about the Sonics and the achoustics . Speakers that can manage around 13 to 15 Khz should sound good with C.D. and L.P. If the tweeter is a paper cone like the Bass / mid , results should be fine. That's what works for me .
Regardless opinions, true sound is a dull bandwidth, including subsonics and ultrasonics. That is a fact. Hence, a higher fidelity must contain those frequencies. An obvious syllogism.
Expecting that high resolution digital processing will result in better perception of music is like to expect that steak will be tastier because was cooked on more modern grill.
Not at all. The same live session, if recorded in high res will have more information. That extra info helps in certain types of music, like jazz and classical. High-res Beyoncé is rather useless.
High-res, as mentioned in the video, is also very useful in tape transfers.
@@anadialog Ok - I do not say it is not improving at all - a lot depends is as you say on recording feautures and may be even on class system . . In my perception CD quality is already above my demands - it blows my mind and satisfy me So I give up complains about lack of anything more I simply do not desire more but I did not want to negate positive opinions about High Res. .
Don't forget hifi tax.
You lost me at item 3 ("Cables"). This truly IS snake oil. For speaker cables of reasonable length in a reasonable room, there is no difference between zipcord and all the big fat "oxygen free" nonsense. I'm a EE, and I can tell you that if you can't measure whatever it is you're talking about then it isn't real when it comes to cables. The transmission of power from an amp to a speaker at audio frequencies is just not complicated. Similarly, if you have a decent amplifier with a decent power supply then there is literally NOTHING you can do to the power being delivered to the amp that will cause ANY measurable effect. Fuses? Really? TOTAL SNAKE OIL Any electronic component in the signal chain that changes after being used ("burn-in") is BROKEN.
It is clear that this presenter has no understanding of what electronics actually do.
This is all snake oil.
Have you tried using cables other than the ones that came with your gear? Please name them along with the associated equipment. Thanks.
@@Habitual_Liar You miss my point. I've been listening to great audio for decades. I use Monster Cables that I bought an eternity ago because they come with banana plugs that are easy to attach to my speakers (MagnaPlanars).
Cables don't matter. If you really want overkill, twist together the ends of two or three parallel zipcord conductors for each side of each speaker run.
There is NO magic in speaker cables -- and NO difference (other than physical convenience) between them.
Plus it doesn’t matter as the cables inside the speakers are usually basic stuff.
@@Habitual_Liar So you are telling me I can`t hear a difference. Go away.
@@thomasstambaugh5181 I’ll have to disagree. I have heard very noticeable differences with cables. Not always better but different. Audio Research would also agree.
From the Audio Research Ref 150SE manual
Important
Use the best available speaker wires and interconnects. Audio Research cannot emphasize this enough. As better components and systems are developed, it becomes increasingly important to avoid the limitations of inferior system interconnections.
lol, whatever makes you feel better
My favorite is the wiring in speaker crossovers. Most of the time it looks nothing like what you fools pay for in your overpriced speaker cables.
Exactly they forget that the internal wiring and soldered links within equipment are much lower gauge and far less exotic than the cables they interconnect with. If overpriced cables made any difference the internals in the gear would be a bottle neck anyway, but they don’t think of that.
I changed all my innner wiring, including crossovers
The quality of cabling inside speakers sometimes are not the best. It is what it is. But avoiding any further degradation is the idea; and why people buy premium cables. Some are worth it and some are not.
You are passing off snake oil in this video!!! Absolutely you can tell whether or not components from the source components to the amps can be determined to be audibly transparent by specs AND measurements (not the same thing) Only when it comes to components that clearly are operating above the thresholds then we have reason to listen to see if we LIKE those colorations. And if you want to call this claim bullshit I would be happy to offer you a bet that you can't hear differences between components that exceed the established thresholds of audibility in their "specs and measurements."
Some things are snake oil & some things are not. I assume you have heard everything, and your particular perception is the pinnacle. No...wait a minute, I won't assume that...to hear everything you wouldn't have time to sleep or eat. I won't assume your ability to afford the finest or to discern audible differences between things is THE MOUNT EVEREST standard setter either.
One does not have to hear everything to understand that the laws of physics are consistent. Why audiophiles think they and their gear is not subject to those same laws is beyond me. I don't have to cut myself to know I bleed. It's already been tested. I don't have to drop valuable items off the roof to know gravity continues to work. I don't have to listen to every cable to know that basic cables that have already been thoroughly tested are utterly audibly transparent. I don't have to listen to every DAC, amp, preamp or other component to know a large body of other competently designed and built components are utterly audibly transparent. It's been tested 50 different ways with the same results. If I told you I could run 100 mph would you have to come out and time me to know it is bullshit? Or would you just know because you have a basic idea in regards to how fast a human, any human can actually run? These things do not exist in a void. We have mountains data and references in audio. We don't need to keep retesting claims, particularly when we have a really good, proven and easily demonstrated alternative explanations for these claims. That is sighted auditions with substantial delays between samples (more than 2-5 seconds) can cause us to think we are hearing differences where none exist. That's a fact and is easy to demonstrate.
The ONE PRESUMED ASSUMPTION that people like you would want people to overlook, skip over and assume is that you know and understand EVERUTHING. Our greatest scientists, WHO DO have great minds, are smart enough to know that they don't understand LOTS AND LOTS of things. So they have something else that you don't have...an open mind. And they TRY THINGS TOO. Enough things!
There are more electrons in a few drops of water than the number of grains of sand on all the world's beaches combined. Beyond human comprehension. The world is a lot more complex than you realize. Unless you know everything, you cannot say what IS and what IS NOT possible. You don't hear improvements with your cheap cables. Other people who afford better stuff hear differences...huge improvements. I do too.
If you were blindfolded and someone switched the cables you are using while away, withe the cables I'm using; within the first 30 seconds you would be greatfully thanking your wife for buying you a whole new stereo. It is NOT a fact that cables can't make an improvement. There are multitudes of us who know they can and do. To the others who do not know yet, all things lean toward that way. The greatest minds in audio history were GREAT minds.EVERY one of the great ones heard improvements, makedly so and more. Most people really serious into audio sound quality, hear it too. I would say the majority; not just an occasional odd one.Trying to put one over that cables make no difference is a FACT like gravity or human running speed ability....No!
We both know that is not a reasonable analogy and has absolutely no application at all HERE. Scientists are smart enough to know to actually try things first. Enough things and enough of the right things before they would even think of drawing absolutistic conclusions. "All theory" guys are not scientists or scientific, and there is no proof (as you claim) that cables make no improvement; because they do. You can fish up some very flawed studies (if you call them that) on anything, in hopes of supporting any viewpoint. The opposite side too There is much more credible reasons to think that cables definitely can make improvements, than anything of questionable nature. If you go high up enough the quality chain; they are better quality and really perform better; just like any other category of audio equipment
@@sidesup8286 It is a fact that basic cables are audibly transparent. If you are using some cable that deliberately or incompetently colors the sound and you like it so be it. But cables that do color the sound do so as simple passive equalizers. If you think you can tell the difference between cables by ear alone just tell me when and where you want to put it to the test and how much you want to wager on the outcome. Talk is cheap. Do you walk the walk?
Peer reviewed? Sadly since 2021 no more than marketing and propaganda 😅😂
Most of the articles in the video description of that video I have mentioned are peer reviewed.
Correction on the era. It actually began in th 70's, and sadly continuing into the future.
Marketing, propaganda and faith.
@@anadialog which ones? What peer reviewed publications?
people interested in hi fi would do well to learn a few basic laws of electronics, and , more importantly , how human hearing works only subjectively , so one can only think what you hear is reality.
Yes, and it's regrettable that it's apparent, from what he says about power input, that this individual doesn't understand basic electrical/electronic theory,
How human hearing works subjectively I would imagine is the ONLY important thing; unless you are a machine or robot listening. Sound signatures of speakers sound completely different in different rooms. Who would be so foolish to think we are hearing the same sound signature with our human ears as a measuring device. Those are two different things, and there's a little something in between those two different things, that need studying.
Focusing on the observed, without taking into account the observer and his totally different apparatus is absurd. You are much more concise now babe. Proud of you!
@@sidesup8286 So the actual sound itself isn't important, just how someone perceives it subjectively. Just get drunk and listen to the radio. It will be subjectively amazing!
It's the New Year. It's 2025 now. I have way better things to do than talk with n*ts.....Feel free though to carry on this uninteresting argument with yourself.
This video is snake oil.
Amstrad kickstarted this Snake Oil trend. They caused a disruption in the market
I admit that I don’t know who that is…
@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of low priced Hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, it's been documented. Even Techmoan did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "hifi" audio systems
@@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of lower-priced hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, It's been documented. Techmoan even did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "lower-priced hifi" audio systems.
What electrical/electronics qualifications do you have? How much experience do you have with sophisticated test equipment? What do you know about measuring AC voltage and viewing it on a scope? How about null testers?
Anyone who disregards measurements and also disregards bias and placebo is nothing more than an empty vessel. Opinion and biased perception are not facts.
Are you confident you could audibly identify a fuse swap without knowing it’s been swapped? How is a power cord the first 3 feet of cable? Your equipment is consuming electricity not generating it. No audio signal is carried by a fuse or a power cord the PSU in the equipment filters all of the crap out before the audio circuits unless you’ve got really terrible gear.
No understanding of electricity or electronics whatsoever and that is clearly demonstrated here. As well as no understanding of how fallible we are as humans and how very easily our mind plays tricks on us. We have to remove all forms of bias and carry out controlled level matched listening tests to subjectively evaluate anything and any reported noticeable changes should be able to be repeatably identified.
My system can change from one day to the next, but it isn’t the system it’s me.
The technical and subjective must be considered two DIFFERENT things, since for over 60 years the best audio reviewers of all time have been telling us that measurements rarely give even a clue as to how something actually sounds. It rarely coincides. Let's not PRETEND that measurements are more important than our perception. There's not one speaker or electronics company on the planet worth its salt, that prioritizes measurements over listening tests. If it measures great but doesn't sound good; it never goes out the factory door. No one out there should forget to realize that there is a lot of difference between the way something measures and how it actually sounds. If our meaauring tells us one thing and our ears tell us another, as is generally the case, then we have a ling way to go in understanding, integrating and correlating what measurements say and what ACTUAL human perception says. These "measurement gurus" have a shaky foundation. Their arguments are based on the wrong premise and foundation: that measurements jibe with what equipment actually sounds like. Starting with a wrong premise predictably leads to wrong results, conclusions and beliefs. Don't let measurement gurus force their wrong beliefs on you. Experimenting and listening for yourself is always way smarter.
@sidesup8286 equipment shouldn’t sound like anything. Do you not understand that?
My perception is different to yours and yours is different to someone else. I’ve seen subjective reviews by different people that contradict one another. So where is the actual quantifiable data when subjectively assessing something?
Subjective bias and placebo are far stronger than you realise or care to admit.
First of all where did I say any of those things? Secondly, I am no amateur and where did "you don't understand that a system shouldn't have a sound of its's own come from?" I go to great lengths in my mods to decrease things like electronic signature and colorations. Naturalness of sound and truth of timber is probably the main thing that my 30+ years of audio experiments have been about. Saying that I don't understand that is ridiculous. Maybe NO ONE understands that more than me. I have been able to triple or near quadruple my sound quality over the years with mods. Inexpensive mods that are cheap (usually). Believe me, I do not have to ever upgrade. My next upgrades are my next ideas whenever they come.Someone once asked me where do my ideas come from? If I knew
, I'd be there right now,; getting more ideas. They come when they come. Is it so hard to understand that if measurements by a machine do not correlate well with what himan ears perceive, then there's more to learn, before we start accusing people of faulty perception. Sounds like half a** backward thinking to me. Do you really think someone who can fricking triple sound quality has been experiencing placebo and expectation bias? There are scores of really intrlligent people out there whose thinking AND prrception is likely well beyond your own. And it is likely your thinking and perception thst is faulty.
@@sidesup8286 J Gordon Holt "Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing."
Heheheh....
Sure, Dude. Whatever you say...
Wutz r u bubblin' noobs..my experience r vinyl, tapes or cassette or even CDs r just nostalgic memories..we r now digital all the way..u can Still lives in ur analogue..gd luck noobs..Peace!
Lol😂
blah blah blah
Great comments there…I like the depth of your analysis… ;-)
Burn in is a myth. My McIntosh Mc 462 has sounded the same since 2020. There’s nothing need for burn in 😂😂😂😂😫😂
99% of the time "burn in" is just our ears getting accustomed to the sound of the new component
It's your hear that become used to a particular device.
They do the "burn in" in factory, that's why some cannot hear a difference at home any more.
@goodsound4756 Companies don’t really do burn in’s at the factory. That’s time consuming. They normally run gear long enough just for quality control
@ they call it test run / quality control etc. but almost never burn in. And time spent on it is maybe 24h not 100h. However, f.i. Black Ice Audio indicate on their website that they do burn in before sending out their amps.